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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff. I never told you a protection

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio, and today we are bringing back a classic

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Speaker 2: that gives both of us a little anxiety. Is our

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Speaker 2: original episode on involuntary celibacy.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna double up? Oh no, I am.

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Speaker 2: I just feel in light of what we've been discussing,

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Speaker 2: we should bring it back. It's a shorter one because

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Speaker 2: we were legitimately nervous about what would happen when we

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Speaker 2: talked about it. But just to give you more context

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Speaker 2: on some recent episodes, it's not a fun one, but

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Speaker 2: it is an important one. Yes, it is, so please

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Speaker 2: I hesitate to say enjoy, but please enjoy. Well, yes,

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Speaker 2: this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie. Hey this is Samantha,

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Speaker 2: and welcome to Steffan never told you your production of Iheartradios.

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Speaker 2: How stuff works. Okay, So this episode is about in cells. Correct,

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Speaker 2: It's been a long time coming, and I will admit

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Speaker 2: I'm a little nervous to talk about it. Right and

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Speaker 2: before we get into it, trigger warning for violence, sexual assault,

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Speaker 2: and rape.

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Speaker 1: So let's just both take a collective breath. Yes, because

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Speaker 1: it is a deep and dark subject.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's something that we've been we have in

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Speaker 2: me to talk about it for a while, right, So

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Speaker 2: let's start with the basics.

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 2: What is insult in Cells is a largely online community

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Speaker 2: of over ten thousand, mostly young men and boys who

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Speaker 2: spew hatred towards women, blaming them for the absence of

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Speaker 2: sex in their lives. And yeah, mostly that's what goes on,

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Speaker 2: but the other things, other things. Eighty percent of their

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Speaker 2: members live in the US and in Europe, and on

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Speaker 2: average about fifty five percent are whites, and they have

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Speaker 2: called for things like acid attacks and mass rapes, and

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Speaker 2: their ideology, which is called the black pill, essentially means

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Speaker 2: that they have rejected women's sexual liberation and realized that

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Speaker 2: in their minds women are shallow and cruel.

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Speaker 1: Oh, because they they're being rejected, they're being shallow and cruel.

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay. It's derived from the red pill, which is

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Speaker 2: a name taken from the scene in The Matrix or

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Speaker 2: Morpheus offers Neo a blue pill to essentially Stacie stay,

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Speaker 2: what does it? Ignorance is bliss or the red pill

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Speaker 2: to wake up to reality? Right, meaning in this case, reality,

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Speaker 2: the realization that women want high status dudes. Black Pill

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Speaker 2: followers think their success in the sexual dating relationship realm

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Speaker 2: hinges entirely on their looks. What this leads to is

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Speaker 2: a kind of sexual class system. So the most attractive

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Speaker 2: men are called chads, and they make up about twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of society of.

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Speaker 1: The men, yes, of the population of men, right, yes.

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Speaker 2: And eighty percent of women want a Chad according to

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Speaker 2: this ideology, and a Chad only so that nobody else

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Speaker 2: they'll only accept a Chad. And they have racialized names

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Speaker 2: for Chad too, so it is Tyrone for a black man,

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Speaker 2: Chang for an East Asian man, Shaddham for an Arab man,

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Speaker 2: and Chad Preach for an Indian man. And the most

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Speaker 2: attractive women, Stacy's will only have sex with chads. So

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Speaker 2: are Stacy's eighty percent of the women? No, okay, because

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Speaker 2: that seems really odd, Like.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, they really have this very high standard

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Speaker 1: or low standard. What's beautiful? But eighty percent of women.

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Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I think all the women are beautiful,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not angry at them.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, and well, women in the lowest twenty percent

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Speaker 2: range when it comes to attractiveness in this whole ideology

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Speaker 2: will have sex with men who are more towards the

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Speaker 2: middle when it comes to their attractiveness, and these men

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Speaker 2: are called beta's, cucks or normies, and below these men

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Speaker 2: at the bottom are en cells. Okay, and the slang

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Speaker 2: term femoids or slang for that slang foids is used

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Speaker 2: for women. Also, just the side note, makeup is seen

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Speaker 2: as kind of a fraud. And if you wear like

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Speaker 2: short shorts and don't like being groped, then you deserve death. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: on an exaggeration.

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Speaker 1: So this is the same guys I would think are

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Speaker 1: the pickup artist. Yes, that whole idea of you deserve

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Speaker 1: these and if they don't want you, then they are

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Speaker 1: bad people who are bitches.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well it's like a grand scheme of like

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Speaker 2: manipulating women right basically into not rejecting you.

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Speaker 1: So insults are kind of like low self esteem guys.

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Speaker 1: And I aboud to get cut. I'm beoutter to get cut.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me I used to for some reason. I

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Speaker 2: know I've told this story on the show before, but

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Speaker 2: for a while, when I would turn people down, turn

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Speaker 2: men down at like bars and clubs, they would always

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Speaker 2: say if I was brad pit. You wouldn't turn me down,

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Speaker 2: And I thought it was weird that Brad Pitt was

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Speaker 2: the name. Really always Brad Pitt, Chad.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm obviously bad to Chad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anytime I ever rejected a man, which was not often,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get I don't get hit on typically that often,

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Speaker 1: but it's usually like you can't make friends, you can't

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Speaker 1: just be nice, but you know, like the whole you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying. Oh now I'm mad at you, which would

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Speaker 1: be along those lines, I would think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And if it wasn't clear from the types of Chads,

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Speaker 2: the various racialized types of CAD names, there is a

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Speaker 2: lot of racism yeah, and anti Semitism surprise going on

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Speaker 2: in these forms as well. Asian women are frequently called

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Speaker 2: noodle whores. Yeah. Some label feminism as a Jewish plot

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Speaker 2: designed to dismantle the Western world. So powerful feminism. South

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Speaker 2: Asian in cells, but it's not working. South Asian in

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Speaker 2: cells call themselves Curry cells.

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Speaker 1: They call themselves Curry cells. Interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Research shows that over fifty percent of all users

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Speaker 2: have used overtly misogynistic language in their post One of

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Speaker 2: the most frequent posters believes feminism is a plot to

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Speaker 2: only date top tier men.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that, I mean yeah, no, okay.

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Speaker 2: Another top poster was behind a thread called why is

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Speaker 2: every single woman a totaling Bitch? That ended with a

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Speaker 2: call for all single women over nineteen to be ground

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Speaker 2: up in an industrial wood chipper.

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Speaker 1: Someone's been watching Fogo a little too much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you think that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's the one reference I get.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay. And for most of us who have heard

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Speaker 2: of en cells, it's probably been through some of these

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Speaker 2: violent acts that have happened in the past couple of years.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to try to avoid seeing any of

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Speaker 2: these people's names, but here you go. In Santa Barbara

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Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, a man who identified as an in

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Speaker 2: cell killed nine and injured fourteen, and prior to his

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Speaker 2: act of violence, he recorded videos blaming women who didn't

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Speaker 2: want to date him. He also wrote a one hundred

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Speaker 2: and forty one page manifesto and he wanted to start

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Speaker 2: a quote war on women for depriving him of sex,

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Speaker 2: and this inspired the hashtag yess all women right, and

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Speaker 2: it also inspired another killer in Florida who similarly released

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Speaker 2: videos detailing his hatred of women before killing two women

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Speaker 2: at a yoga facility, and some in the in cell

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Speaker 2: community labeled him Saint Yoga Cell. And it inspired another

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Speaker 2: man to kill nine people in twenty fifteen, leaving a

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Speaker 2: manifesto blaming women for his virginity and praising the twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen killer and this twenty fourteen killers. He's seen as

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Speaker 2: a saint in that world for not for everybody, but

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Speaker 2: for a lot of people. And they use his name

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Speaker 2: for saying like you should go and do what he did.

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Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, a self described in cell man in

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Speaker 2: Canada drove a van onto a sidewalk and killed ten

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Speaker 2: people and injured fourteen. And yeah, the community largely praised

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Speaker 2: him and called for more acts of murder. Someone wrote

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Speaker 2: he would have a celebratory beer every time. It turned

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Speaker 2: out a victim was a woman aged eighteen to thirty five.

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Speaker 1: That is very specific.

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Speaker 2: And if we set back a bit to nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 2: a man by the name of Mark Leppine went on

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Speaker 2: to inspire the user name of a modern day in

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Speaker 2: cell but with Satan Front. He went into a university

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Speaker 2: classroom in Montreal, demanded the men leave the room and

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Speaker 2: killed the nine women who were left, and then went

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Speaker 2: on to kill five more women. In the letter found

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Speaker 2: after he killed himself, he wrote he was fighting feminism

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Speaker 2: and this is the worst mass shooting in Canada's history.

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Speaker 1: This would be one of the examples of why feminism

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Speaker 1: is important.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it would be, and it is. People who study

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Speaker 2: in cels say that while these are terrible acts, we

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Speaker 2: shouldn't forget about the more common everyday violence that in

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Speaker 2: cell community normalizes and commits as well, like sexual harassment,

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Speaker 2: yelling at women, and even targeting ovarian and cervical cancer

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Speaker 2: research funds. Then there's other things users post about, like

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Speaker 2: injecting seamen into chocolate bars and giving them to women.

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Speaker 2: Somebody said he did that because he thought he had

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Speaker 2: a chance with this woman, but it turned out she

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Speaker 2: had a boyfriend because she's a total monster. Or sexually

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Speaker 2: assaulting women in public, especially on public trans it.

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Speaker 1: Right, and then we you and I talked about in

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Speaker 1: the previous episode about semocide and a lot of like

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Speaker 1: some of the deaths that happen are when men get

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Speaker 1: rejected and feel like they have the right to harm

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Speaker 1: or kill that person and or violate that person some

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Speaker 1: way or some form and this will be exactly in

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Speaker 1: those lines.

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Speaker 2: And some people who who study this say that a

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Speaker 2: lot of this these posters just talk because the Internet

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Speaker 2: is a place where you can kind of be your

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Speaker 2: worst self. But even so, it is a community that

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Speaker 2: celebrates violence against women, like even if it is just talk,

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Speaker 2: it's talk, right, And studies have shown and members anecdotally

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Speaker 2: admit that it shapes their worldview and makes them angrier

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Speaker 2: and more prone to and accepting of violence or even harassment.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen that it's kind of similar to isis

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Speaker 2: like you get radical.

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Speaker 1: The mom mentality in itself, that's exactly what's occurring. Is

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Speaker 1: they kind of go into their own little world and

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Speaker 1: then encourage each other's stupidity.

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Speaker 2: And anger and hate.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But there is a subset of about one hundred men

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Speaker 2: that actively promote other members to perpetrate sexual violence against women,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of them are associated with a site

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Speaker 2: run by a man who tried to kill President George W.

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Speaker 2: Bush in two thousand and eight, claims he raped his

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Speaker 2: ex wife and ran for congress in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Did he actually get his name on the ballot?

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Speaker 2: I think so he dropped out, though I would hope.

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Speaker 2: So he doesn't call himself an in cel, but he's

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Speaker 2: a big name in the in cell community, and he

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Speaker 2: and his followers pushed the rape pill. And here's the

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Speaker 2: definition for that, the understanding that for civilization to survive,

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Speaker 2: femoins need to be treated as subhuman objects whose purpose

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Speaker 2: is to obey and bear the children of supreme gentlemen, such.

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Speaker 1: As ourselves supreme gentlemen. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of their sites, with five hundred members, is called

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Speaker 2: Raping Girls is Fun. They have tips for how to

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Speaker 2: commit the most effective rapes. And as a whole, these

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Speaker 2: sites and the people that peruse them believe that women

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Speaker 2: should not have and should never have had, any rights.

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Speaker 2: So that that's kind of what's going on there when

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Speaker 2: we have some more like present day Steff. But we

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Speaker 2: also have some history about how this in cells got started.

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Speaker 2: But first we're going to pause for a quick break

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Speaker 2: for word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor.

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Speaker 2: So for the history is kind of surprising and interesting,

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Speaker 2: and I bet a lot of you've heard of it

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Speaker 2: because it is surprising and interesting. It goes back to

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Speaker 2: an online community that was founded in the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 2: and it was a community of shy, lonely people looking

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Speaker 2: for other shy, lonely people. Eventually, this loneliness helped gather

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Speaker 2: an online community, and they came up with the phrase

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Speaker 2: involuntary celibacy to describe their experience, which was later shortened

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Speaker 2: to I think. It was later shortened in there's a

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Speaker 2: V in there, but then it was shortened to in cell. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and one of the first members, who now goes by

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Speaker 2: the handle Reformed in Cel, described the community as a

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Speaker 2: quote kind of social justice warrior esque place men who

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Speaker 2: didn't know how to talk to women would ask questions

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Speaker 2: and female members would answer them. And he's sort of

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Speaker 2: a noted historian of the movement and how it evolved

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Speaker 2: into what it is today, like he's tried to record

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Speaker 2: what happened. What happened, And the founder was a queer

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Speaker 2: progressive woman from Canada named Alana. Alana thought dating was

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Speaker 2: confusing and scary and she wasn't even quite sure of

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Speaker 2: her own sexuality, and as a college student, she felt

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Speaker 2: she was bisexual and started a serious relationship with a woman,

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Speaker 2: but she wanted to help others like her who struggled

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Speaker 2: with relationships, who wanted to have one but for one

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Speaker 2: reason or another couldn't and to that end, she started

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Speaker 2: the Helana's Involuntary Celibacy Project website. It didn't take her

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Speaker 2: too long to realize that she wasn't entirely sure to

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Speaker 2: help the people populating the forums, and she was in

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Speaker 2: a relationship and kind of you know, got busy, and

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Speaker 2: in the early two thousands she left the community. Now.

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Speaker 2: She later went on to start a new project called

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Speaker 2: Love Not Anger to kind of try to retake, try

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Speaker 2: to start.

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Speaker 1: The thing wasn't as where it is today. Such a turnaround,

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Speaker 1: I guess that happened as often. Well. Then this is

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Speaker 1: when the community divided into two forms, the inceel Support

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Speaker 1: and love Shy. In cell Support was inclusive and closer

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Speaker 1: to what the founder intended. Moderators ban misogynistic posts, but Loveshy,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, did not really moderate the posts,

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Speaker 1: and posters blamed women for the lack of sex, and

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Speaker 1: one of the moderators latted mass killings and killers and

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Speaker 1: encouraged violence. And it was almost all men. Since it

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Speaker 1: was online, it wasn't isolated either. It crossed over with

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Speaker 1: very angry dark Internet places like Fortune, a site with

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Speaker 1: in cel like ideas section called r nine k, A

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Speaker 1: lot of in cells became in cels through four ten.

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Speaker 1: Then there's the menosphere, which refers to a collection of

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Speaker 1: sites almost entirely powered by men, like Men's Right sites.

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Speaker 1: This vinn diagram of sites blaming women fostered a larger community,

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Speaker 1: and one that took the name in cel made it

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Speaker 1: their own and also claimed to have coined it in

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Speaker 1: the first place. After the killer in California was reported

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Speaker 1: to be an in cell, the original community relinquished the

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Speaker 1: term as toxic, but for the newer, angrier, violent community,

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Speaker 1: the killer was a hero, so the forums posted photoshop

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Speaker 1: pictures of his face as Christian images, and his initials

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Speaker 1: were mostly positive and used to condone acts of violence,

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Speaker 1: and others blame him for the negative reputations of in cells.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, some in the community think that that this is

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Speaker 2: what gave them. I mean, it did a negative reputation

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Speaker 2: and they don't laud him like the others do and

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Speaker 2: read it. Recently banned the in cell subreddit, but a

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Speaker 2: new one opened in its place with sixteen nine hundred members,

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Speaker 2: and it also spawned our in cel tears, which makes

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Speaker 2: fun of the things posted by in cells. I have

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Speaker 2: a friend who reads that religiously and even that upsets me,

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Speaker 2: Like it's funny, but I'm like, still.

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Speaker 1: How how do you even delve into that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we have a little bit more to talk about,

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Speaker 2: but first we're gonna pause for one more quick bak

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Speaker 2: forward from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you, sponsor.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that I mean in cells

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Speaker 2: is obviously to the innth degree, it's taking something to

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Speaker 2: the innst degree, but we can I mean, it does

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Speaker 2: showcase like how in our society there is this idea

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Speaker 2: of entitlements and female obligation.

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Speaker 1: Just still hard to shake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And in this thought structure, women owe

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Speaker 2: men sex and the world is systemically messed up when

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Speaker 2: men who want it are not getting it. And you

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Speaker 2: can see this everywhere that here's an example from a

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen New York Times piece written by a social

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Speaker 2: conservative quote, our widespread isolation and unhappiness and sterility might

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Speaker 2: be dealt with by reviving or adapting older ideas about

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Speaker 2: the virtues of monogamy and chastity and permanence and the

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Speaker 2: special respect ode to the celevant. And I know that

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Speaker 2: there was even that discussion of like rationing sex like,

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Speaker 2: how can we make sure everyone who haunts sex gets it?

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, and cells look down on

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Speaker 2: whrrors right, sex worker?

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Speaker 1: Right, And I know there's this prejudice against lesbians and yeah,

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Speaker 1: sexuals in general anyway, and that they are not doing well.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's sin, but it's also a slap

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Speaker 1: in their face, right that they can get something without

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Speaker 1: them but men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And think of how we encourage women to

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Speaker 2: feel when they want someone and can't get them, that

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Speaker 2: it's their fault, right, right, that they are undesirable, they

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Speaker 2: are to blame. Compare that to this train of thinking

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Speaker 2: like I'm just undesirable, but the woman, the other party,

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Speaker 2: is to blame and the world is to blame.

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Speaker 1: And you owe me this. Why wouldn't you give me this?

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Speaker 1: Because this is your purpose in life, you know? And

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Speaker 1: I kind of think about what the whole celibacy thing

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Speaker 1: and the monogamy and chastity, all of these ideas, the

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Speaker 1: whole sex strike that's happening right now. I know I

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Speaker 1: talked about it earlier with the feminism episode, but Alyssa

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Speaker 1: Milano's whole thing, and I'm thinking, while I know it's

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Speaker 1: not completely related, but This is kind of what we're having,

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Speaker 1: this conversation about how this takes the whole idea traditional

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Speaker 1: idea that women owe men sex and so by being

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Speaker 1: a strike is something as if it's their job or

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Speaker 1: their obligation. So they're putting a strike on it. And

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Speaker 1: I know that's one of the big controversies, like, wait,

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Speaker 1: you're taking this negative tone on one sex is and

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Speaker 1: who controls sex?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who's the gatekeeper?

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Speaker 1: Right? And this is the whole conversation in that even

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Speaker 1: though I'm sure in theory there's a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: it could be helpful. And you and I talked about

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Speaker 1: some of the times that it has been used. You

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Speaker 1: were talking about in Chicago when it was used for

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Speaker 1: gay activity or men who are involved in gain and

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Speaker 1: the women the correct and then also way back when

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Speaker 1: when it was thought of as their obligation, women's obligation

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Speaker 1: to have sex and birth children and so therefore being

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Speaker 1: on a strike kind of takes that away. But now

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Speaker 1: it's kind of we're changing that idea, we're changing what

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Speaker 1: that looks like, what sex is, and who controls it

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Speaker 1: and who can ask for it, who can say no

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Speaker 1: to that? And it is a really hot idea of

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Speaker 1: what this is, and then this kind of it does

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Speaker 1: kind of feel like it. Again, I don't really know

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Speaker 1: too much about it. I'm more confused than anything else.

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Speaker 1: It does seem like this feats into this whole idea

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Speaker 1: that a woman's perp is to have sex with men,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I know I read that quote a couple

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Speaker 2: of episodes ago about how feeling like you're a soldier

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Speaker 2: called into war to help men with their blue balls, right,

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Speaker 2: And I yeah, I felt that way, and I've said like,

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Speaker 2: I'm someone who doesn't really feel sexual traction, and I

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Speaker 2: felt guilty about it because I was like, oh, this

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Speaker 2: guy's so nice to me.

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Speaker 1: I mean that. But again, you're right with all of this,

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Speaker 1: and cells the idea that you are failing and or

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Speaker 1: you are insulting a man by saying you don't want

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Speaker 1: to be with him or anyone is unnatural.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's the mentality of this, that you are supposed

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Speaker 1: to not necessarily want it, but at least give it. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's not about your pleasure, So I guess again, I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of like, all right, this is so hand in

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Speaker 1: hand with what are we actually saying about sex? And

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Speaker 1: women once again, and who owes what? And who has

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Speaker 1: control of what?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in cells are largely viewed as a backlash

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Speaker 2: to progressiveness and feminism. Throughout our histories, laws have classified

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Speaker 2: women's bodies as the property of men. So the rape

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Speaker 2: of a man's wife was seen as a crime against

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Speaker 2: the man, right because the woman's body was not her own.

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Speaker 2: And we were still still trying to get away from

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Speaker 2: that train of thinking.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it just recently happened. I forgot what

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Speaker 1: state it was that they just turned over the law

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Speaker 1: that women couldn't be raped by her husband.

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Speaker 2: Well, was nineteen ninety one was when the United States

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Speaker 2: finally in every state, right it was outlawed. And that

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Speaker 2: is very very recent. It's like a going back to

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Speaker 2: the way things used to be and technology giving space

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Speaker 2: for people to who feel this way to connect and

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Speaker 2: to yeah, cheer each other on.

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Speaker 1: Right apparently like yeah, in twenty fifteen, eight states still

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Speaker 1: has semi laws that allow for I have to be raped.

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Speaker 2: Wow, what a wonderful world we live in.

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Speaker 1: Oh So Columbus, Ohio is the one that closed the

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Speaker 1: loophole in May fourth, twenty nineteen for the marital rape law.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's still yeah, a thing and

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Speaker 1: the idea that we can't go past the whole women

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Speaker 1: are properties. Sex is an obligation, Sex is a job.

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Speaker 1: Sex is a part of your duties in marriage. I

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Speaker 1: mean you still see that in shows and talking about procreation,

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Speaker 1: and there's still some shame for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: to not be able to birth their own child. You

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Speaker 1: know in all of those laid down to you, you're

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Speaker 1: worthos a woman.

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Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. One of my coworkers the other day, because

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Speaker 2: because we do this show like Anytime, which is kind

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Speaker 2: of a fun sad thing, but Anytime like a bad

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Speaker 2: something with feminism or women.

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Speaker 1: After starting to get that now too, but I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh you and I'm like, yeah, that's bad.

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Speaker 2: But one of our coworkers sent me a song. I

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Speaker 2: had never heard of it, but it was a Dave

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Speaker 2: Matthews song called Daughters. It's like be nice to your

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Speaker 2: daughters because they have become mothers or something.

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Speaker 1: I think that's an old, old song.

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Speaker 2: That's old, Yeah, but he was. It was just funny

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Speaker 2: because he was like, can we not view women as

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Speaker 2: anything other than like a walking baby?

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Speaker 1: That's what we're created for? And God, God, help the

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Speaker 1: women who actually can have children. I mean, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the whole societal ideas that in the internal struggle

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Speaker 1: that you felt somehow because you feel like that's what

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to do and at the same time that's

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Speaker 1: what you want to do, and that's fine, and that's

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking in itself, but it is a whole big thing

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Speaker 1: of like, am I a lesser person because I don't

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Speaker 1: or I can't And of course you're not. Of course

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Speaker 1: they're not. And it's just a heartbreaking situation that stuff

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Speaker 1: like this which goes into a volatile state where death

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Speaker 1: has to happen as a result of someone's insecurity. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's just and the fact that we are hearing more

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Speaker 1: and more of those the whole idea that a young

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Speaker 1: child can be raped for the sins of someone else

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Speaker 1: in the family, you know, I know that's happened a

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Speaker 1: few times in the world, and it's just heartbreaking that

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Speaker 1: that's even a thing. Or the student who was killed

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Speaker 1: because she reported sexual assault over their professor. You know,

437
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: it's just why is this the thing that they're so undervalued?

438
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: Women are undervalued, and it's still a conversation that we

439
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: have to constantly have because once again, as you said,

440
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: but not not necessarily, the finality of death is not

441
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: the only thing we have talk about here, but acid

442
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: attacks or continue harassment, continues stalking, that you owe them

443
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: something is absurd, and even having our listeners who talk

444
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: about the fact that they get deal with this at

445
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: their workplace, constantly being badgered, that's a part of the

446
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: same thing, that you owe them something because you exist

447
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: in their world or in their environment, or you're nice

448
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: to them. And that's the other part is why we

449
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: just we can't be nice sometimes yeah yeah, and then

450
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: you're and then people get pissed off by that.

451
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we having this

452
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: conversation about and cells is really important in it. It's

453
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: so kind of frightening, but I do think that it

454
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: says a lot about our views on women in general,

455
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: that this can be allowed to exist.

456
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: That it does exist, and even when you try to

457
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 1: shut it down and he still keeps popping back up.

458
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. So that's that's the end of this episode.

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00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's something that we have to look at

460
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: once again. I think we decided to put this under

461
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: like a feminism episode arc because this is why it

462
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: is important once again, and when I try to talk

463
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: to people who are so scared of that word, we'll

464
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: talk about these are what we're really looking at is

465
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: safety and equality. Safety is a big factor in trying

466
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: to be being able to once again walk out in

467
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: the street by yourself without being threatened, or being a

468
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: female in a mainly like male predominant area and be

469
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: treated the same. I mean, I told you the story

470
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: a while ago about me going into a conference that

471
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: we're mainly made up of males and feeling so insecure

472
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: because the immediate looks and the immediate like judgments that

473
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: were happening, and I was automatically focused on because I

474
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: was a woman, and then at the sea of men

475
00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: and that's absurd.

476
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So it's been on our I think I

477
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: started this outline a year ago and we finally finally

478
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 2: did it, and we would love to hear from you listeners,

479
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 2: and such a strange transition, but.

480
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: We always want to hear from the listener.

481
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: We do, we do, we do. You can email us

482
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: at Stuff Media Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. That

483
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: is a new email, but if you send the older email,

484
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: it'll it'll come our way. You can also find us

485
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 2: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You and on

486
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our

487
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: super producer Andrew Howard, Andrew, thanks to you for listening.

488
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: Thank you, Stuff I'm Never Told You. The production of

489
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio is how Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

490
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

491
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: to your favorite chip

492
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: When they