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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature a production of I Heart Radio. Today.

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Speaker 1: On the show, we're talking about aliens under the sea.

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Speaker 1: If you want to explore the world of extraterrestrials, we

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Speaker 1: have to leave the terrain and go underwater. Giant bugs,

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Speaker 1: animals that clone themselves, things that come back to life

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Speaker 1: after being eviscerated. And later on the show, we'll be

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Speaker 1: speaking to a professor of marine biology who kept an

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Speaker 1: octopus in his living room. Discover this and more as

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Speaker 1: we answer the angel question. Who's got no thumbs and

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Speaker 1: three hearts? These guys? So I want to start out

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Speaker 1: the show with a listener question. Mike asks, why is

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Speaker 1: the deep sea filled with nightmares? Anglerfish, goblin sharks, gulper eels.

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Speaker 1: When evolution turns the light out? Why doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: go full horror show? I mean, tigers are scary too,

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Speaker 1: but there are equal parts cuddly at least. Well, Mike,

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Speaker 1: here's my theory. It's not so much that the sea

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Speaker 1: is filled with nightmares, rather that we diverged from them

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Speaker 1: on our evolutionary road trip, so we share more features

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Speaker 1: in common with other mammals, and our schema for what

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Speaker 1: looks cuddly is based on mammalian features. Researchers found that

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Speaker 1: children as young as three to six years of age

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Speaker 1: form a sort of mental cuteness map faces of humans

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Speaker 1: and animals were manipulated in photoshop to be more proportionally

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Speaker 1: similar to babies. Children spent more time looking at images

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Speaker 1: that more closely fit these baby proportions and rated them

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Speaker 1: as more pleasing. Big eyes, big foreheads, chubby cheeks. Now

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Speaker 1: compare that to many deep sea creatures, tiny beady eyes,

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Speaker 1: no foreheads, sunken cheeks, almost the opposite of the baby schema.

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Speaker 1: In a sense, deep sea animals and other aquatic life

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Speaker 1: is alien to us. So far back on the evolutionary

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Speaker 1: tree were barely relatives. But today on the show, we're

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Speaker 1: going to challenge that concept. We're going to take a

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Speaker 1: good hard look at some of the slimiest, tenticaliest, most

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Speaker 1: alien looking animals when we see and learn to love them.

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Speaker 1: And later in the show, I'm going to be joined

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Speaker 1: by prof Essor David Shield, a marine biologist who invited

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Speaker 1: an octopus to come live with him in his home

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Speaker 1: and found we have shockingly much in common with these

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Speaker 1: evolutionary aliens. Joining me today is comedian musician Monkey Lover

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Speaker 1: Chris crofton, Hey, how are you, Katie? So are you

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Speaker 1: familiar with the sea. I mean I've been in it, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, just a few feet. Usually I don't usually

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Speaker 1: go out very far. You don't mess with the ocean, now,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you there, I don't. I don't mess with

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Speaker 1: it either. I take one good look at the ocean like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm okay. Actually yeah, I got feet. They're good

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Speaker 1: for land, right yeah. And I'm like, I used to

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Speaker 1: be a redhead and now I'm I'm bald. But when

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Speaker 1: I was when I had I mean, I'm pale. So

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Speaker 1: the ocean, I mean, the beach is something I have

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Speaker 1: to coat myself in zinc to go there. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: I've I've got the ginger jeans too. And it's natures

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Speaker 1: telling me something. It's telling me to stay indoors, don't

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Speaker 1: go to the beach, cover yourself in sund screen. Just

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Speaker 1: but I don't know where Irish people are supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: They're supposed to be in some kind of missy. I

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Speaker 1: think we're supposed to be like subterranean creatures that just

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Speaker 1: kind of like I really don't understand it. Is there

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Speaker 1: no son in Ireland. I don't I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're not prepared or built for some it's all bog right,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's what I always picture. You're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be the ball inside of a box, right exactly. Well,

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Speaker 1: so first I want to talk about an animal called

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Speaker 1: the goblin shark and to kind of address the listener

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Speaker 1: question of these freaky animals you find deep undersea. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: here's a picture of a goblin shark's head. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it kind of looks to me. It looks a little

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Speaker 1: bit like Mr Smithers on The Simpsons. Oh yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like that if he was wearing a hat.

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Speaker 1: It's called a long hat beak on top of him exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's got this big, pointy nose and like these protruding lips.

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Speaker 1: It's more of a snow than a nose. But it's

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Speaker 1: where's his eyeballs underneath his nose? Eyes are? Yeah, his

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Speaker 1: eyes are right there? Like what a drag? Well, your

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Speaker 1: eyeballs underneath your nose? You're not going to get that

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Speaker 1: many dates. Nope. Um. But they grow up to sixteen

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Speaker 1: feet long, so they're tall. And where do they how?

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Speaker 1: Where is that because I don't want to go anywhere

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Speaker 1: near that. You probably won't have to worry about the shallows. No, No,

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Speaker 1: they're very rare shark that can be found throughout the world,

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Speaker 1: deep in the ocean at depths of over three feet,

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Speaker 1: so you're probably never going to see one of these.

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Speaker 1: It looks kind of old. It looks like it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like an old Egyptian carving. That's like, I guess

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Speaker 1: alive because it's kind of like it looks like it's

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Speaker 1: made of rock. Yeah. I think this one is probably

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Speaker 1: a little bit desiccated because I think that's a dead sample.

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Speaker 1: That's a dead one. Yeah, I was wondering why it

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Speaker 1: looks so ragged. It's hard like you can't get live

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Speaker 1: samples of these, pretty much like when they try to

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Speaker 1: collect a live sample, it dies pretty quickly. But if

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Speaker 1: you want to, there's this video of a live one

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Speaker 1: and you can see it actually can shoot its jaws out,

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Speaker 1: shoot its jaws out. Yeah, it will shoot its jaws

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Speaker 1: from its face like a sling shot. Uh, let me

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Speaker 1: show you, okay, yeah, oh boy, wow. So he's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he has a mouth inside his mouth

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Speaker 1: or she does. It's kind of like Alien, you know

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Speaker 1: the alien from Alien, where it like shoots out that

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Speaker 1: tongue alien. Is that what happens in that movie? It's

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Speaker 1: like a little tongue alien that shoots out of its

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Speaker 1: mouth and then screams at people. Yeah, kind of I

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Speaker 1: think that that's. Yeah. So this shark that I just

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Speaker 1: looked at has like a mouth like a and then

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Speaker 1: inside it has another mouth that shoots out. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: actually one mouth, but it kind of it looks like

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Speaker 1: it's shooting out an extra mouth because it's actually kind

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Speaker 1: of recessed inside of of its um mandibles. So it's

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Speaker 1: got once one jaw, one set of teeth, and then

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Speaker 1: that it's as if you could like pop your jaws

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Speaker 1: like out of your skull and kind of like push

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Speaker 1: it forward, like my mother in law just kids, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not even married, married, roasted to the imaginary mother

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Speaker 1: in law. I came on your show to do. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's what is it? Um? So it's probably an ambush predator.

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Speaker 1: So it sneaks up behind prey and then snaps it

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Speaker 1: with its freaky jaws. The reason it's able to catapult

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Speaker 1: its jaws forward is it actually has these elastic ligaments

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Speaker 1: that are like rubber bands. Um, so when it's jaws closed,

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Speaker 1: these these rubber band ligaments are actually pulled tight and

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Speaker 1: then it releases them literally like a sling shot. But

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Speaker 1: it's full of teeth. So I see what it's doing.

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Speaker 1: It's like it can so it can dead pan like

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna like it's not hungry or it's not

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Speaker 1: about to bite you. It's just like has a straight face.

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Speaker 1: And then but inside it's got this like it has

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Speaker 1: its real intentions. Teeth nightmares. Yeah, yeah, boom teeth nightmares.

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Speaker 1: You see another person meets or a person another animal

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Speaker 1: meets that fish and the fish is like, oh, he's

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Speaker 1: not mad because his vase is straight, his mouth is straight. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they look kind of doofy. They got that long

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Speaker 1: nose and then just teeth everywhere. It's incredible, what a

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Speaker 1: strange evolution. Yeah. More nightmare fuel for you is the

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Speaker 1: giant I pods. So do you know like pillbugs, they're

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Speaker 1: also called like wood lice and roly polly under the

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Speaker 1: rocks exactly. The some of them like roll up, some

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Speaker 1: of them don't roll up, but they all have that

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Speaker 1: general look. The little second called potato bugs. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: another name for them. Um, I think I called him

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Speaker 1: Roly Polly's. I loved collecting big fistfuls of them and

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Speaker 1: just like letting him run over my hands. Interesting, I

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Speaker 1: was a monster. Yeah, um, so imagine one of those

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Speaker 1: roll pollies that's the size of a chihuahua. Really yep,

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Speaker 1: where are they? They're deep under the sea there, so

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Speaker 1: five hundred feet under the sea in the West Atlantic

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Speaker 1: Ocean lives the giant i pod. They grow up to

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Speaker 1: up to two and a half feet in length and

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Speaker 1: up to four pounds. So they're in fact related to pillbugs.

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Speaker 1: They're both isopods, so they're quite closely related. Obviously, the

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Speaker 1: pillbugs are terrestrial and the isopods are aquatic, but they're

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Speaker 1: part of this larger family of Isopoda, which also includes

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Speaker 1: tongue eating parasites that live in the sea. We've actually

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Speaker 1: talked about it on the show before, but these are

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Speaker 1: parasites that latch onto fish tongues, suck out their blood,

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Speaker 1: and replace the actual tongue. In terms of functioning, what

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Speaker 1: it replaced everything that's outed normal, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: relatively normal the tongue, right, because they eat so much

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Speaker 1: of the fish tongue that the tongue atrophies, and the

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Speaker 1: fish uses that isopod that parasite as a tongue because

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Speaker 1: it's like attached to the muscles at the back of

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Speaker 1: the tongue. So once that actually, once that isopod completes

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Speaker 1: its life cycle and drops off of the fish, the

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Speaker 1: fish dies because it doesn't have a tongue anymore. Wow, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad. Do they have those? They don't have those

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Speaker 1: for people, do they. There's no, not that I know of. No,

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Speaker 1: is that your tongue. No, it's it's a predator that

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Speaker 1: replaced my tongue. So here's the picture of one of

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Speaker 1: these guys. He's being held by I guess a researcher,

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Speaker 1: kind of like a little baby. It's like, what do

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Speaker 1: the scientists do with these weird animals? They just pull

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Speaker 1: them out so they can show them, I guess, so

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Speaker 1: just holding like look at this check out and I

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Speaker 1: think that's pretty much it just like look at this

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Speaker 1: weird thing. The thing that they pulled out like dies

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Speaker 1: right after they chase around their crush like holding this

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Speaker 1: thing up like look at this yeah, yeah, running away,

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Um, giant potato bug fish. It's not a

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Speaker 1: fish though, is it. No, it's it's a it's nice

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Speaker 1: a pod, which is kind of more closely related to crustaceans. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of the poster child for deep sea gigantism.

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Speaker 1: So that's where Oh it's funny the post your child gigantism.

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Speaker 1: Do you or your relatives suffer from deep sea gigantism.

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Speaker 1: If so, we're here to help call one eight hundred

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Speaker 1: deep sea gigantism lawyers. Uh So, invertebrates at greater depths

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Speaker 1: can actually evolve to grow much larger than their smaller counterparts.

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Speaker 1: So like think about the giant squid. Normally squid aren't

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Speaker 1: really that big, but deep under the sea, like at

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Speaker 1: these great depths, they can actually get to be quite large.

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Speaker 1: Uh this, there's a few theories about why this happens.

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Speaker 1: One of them is that because at these depths the

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Speaker 1: food density drops so like there's not that much food around,

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Speaker 1: there's not that many organisms. Obviously sunlight doesn't reach so

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Speaker 1: there's not as much phytoplankton down there, so obviously right,

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Speaker 1: Uh so you need you literally need a larger body

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Speaker 1: to be able to cover more ground and fight scattered

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Speaker 1: resource which seems kind of counterintuitive because like, the bigger

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Speaker 1: you are, the more food you need. But on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, there's this law in nature where it's like

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Speaker 1: the bigger your body is, you're actually more efficient metabolically.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, something tiny needs to keep eating pretty constantly

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Speaker 1: to keep its body running, but a large animal has

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Speaker 1: more body reserves, so it can put a lot of

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Speaker 1: it a lot of its energy can be stored, whereas

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Speaker 1: like a small animal. It's kind of like how hummingbirds

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Speaker 1: have to feed basically constantly to stay alive because they're

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Speaker 1: so small they have no result. Yeah, so that's why

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Speaker 1: giant tortoises and things can live. Yeah, And actually that's

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Speaker 1: a very good point because these large animals, like the

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Speaker 1: greenland shark, which we've talked about on previous episodes. Is

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Speaker 1: this giant shark that can live hundreds of years because

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Speaker 1: it's metabolism is so slow and it's so big, and

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Speaker 1: it it's like its whole body system is just kind

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Speaker 1: of slowed down in the it's this giant ancient creature. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested in in the animals live a long

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Speaker 1: time just because it's i don't know, just interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there I find them interesting because they are

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Speaker 1: old I think things too. Yeah, but I get what

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Speaker 1: you're saying because you don't think of we think of

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Speaker 1: it in terms of human lifespan. So something that lives

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Speaker 1: hundreds of years, it's just bizarre to think of one

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Speaker 1: lifespan spanning over like five hundred years, right, And you

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Speaker 1: attach your perception of time to their perception of time,

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Speaker 1: which is totally different, So you think that. I'm always

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Speaker 1: imagining that they poke their head up all the time

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Speaker 1: and say like, see what's going on, Like you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like they're like, oh, they're wearing those outfits,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like they're like they see

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Speaker 1: like try corner hats, and then they poke their head

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Speaker 1: up again and it's like the seventies of like bell bottoms,

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Speaker 1: and you know it's not happening. They're just like they're

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Speaker 1: just like thinking this they're thinking, right, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I kind of like the idea that they're thinking, like, Hi, wait,

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Speaker 1: when did fregging caps go out about human culture? I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they're like keeping it out. They're just like living

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Speaker 1: a long time so they could see more human outfits.

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Speaker 1: That's my idea exactly. How nature works. So one last

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Speaker 1: deep sea creature I want to talk about. It's really funny.

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Speaker 1: It's called so it's the toll a jellyfish. It's a

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Speaker 1: species of deep sea crown jellyfish. It's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: do you play D and D at all or did

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Speaker 1: when I was younger. Yeah, it's kind of looks like

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Speaker 1: one of these when it looks like one of the

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Speaker 1: monsters from d nd D because it's red, it's got

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Speaker 1: twenty tentacles, like what's that I monster in dn D

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about, or with blanks or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I had a corrupt dungeon master who

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Speaker 1: gave me some strength that was way too high so

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Speaker 1: I could beat like everybody, and then the game was

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Speaker 1: no fun, like paid off the dungeon give me strength

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Speaker 1: because everyone was like, how did you get that strength

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Speaker 1: when you're a knave or whatever? And you found that

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Speaker 1: bribery doesn't pay something like that. These deep sea crowned

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Speaker 1: jellyfish are bioleminescent, and when it's attacked, it actually flashes

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Speaker 1: a blue police siren of bioluminescence. Let me show you

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Speaker 1: a video of this. So here's it's a this guy

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Speaker 1: it's really freaky looking as you can see. And then

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Speaker 1: when it's attacked it has like this blue beautiful Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it looks like blue fireworks. Man, I'd like to hold

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Speaker 1: one of those when I was stoned. Well, it would

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Speaker 1: probably nark on you. Because this is also known as

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Speaker 1: the alarm jellyfish, or as I like to call it,

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Speaker 1: the snatch fish, because it will use this alarm when

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Speaker 1: it's attacked to drop predators in which sounds counterintuitive, but

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Speaker 1: what happens is, so it's being attacked by a smaller predator,

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Speaker 1: it does this alarm. Larger predators come over to see

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Speaker 1: what's happening, and instead of attack the jellyfish, they attack

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Speaker 1: their attackers, so the smaller predator that was attacking the jellyfish.

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Speaker 1: So there essentially they're calling in the c police, which

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Speaker 1: comes over, checks it out, and then eats the predator

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Speaker 1: that was bothering them. Oh that's interesting. It's a very

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Speaker 1: complicated trick. Yeah, I mean, I almost don't understand it,

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Speaker 1: but that's just because I'm well, it's well, it's a

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Speaker 1: little confusing because you have like these two So, so

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Speaker 1: jellyfish gets attacked by say a little fish, right, and

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Speaker 1: then the jellyfish signals it's alarmed, it flashes blue, it

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Speaker 1: makes all this commotion. A bigger fish comes overish over there, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, there's this these bright lights happening. I

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Speaker 1: wonder what's going on, And instead of attacking the jellyfish,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, hey, look a little fish. I'll eat

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Speaker 1: that because that's more that's more ticing than the jets.

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Speaker 1: The big thing. The jellyfish just gets to escape. Now

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Speaker 1: it doesn't it's yeah, it's just it's just itching so

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Speaker 1: that it can escape. Oh, I got it. Well, wait,

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Speaker 1: what was the little fish gonna do? The jellyfish try

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Speaker 1: to eat it? Okay, there you go get it. Um.

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Speaker 1: It is very complicated, so I think that's if that.

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Speaker 1: So that kind of jellyfish that has all those great

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Speaker 1: lights would be if it was a Pixar movie, would

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Speaker 1: be like they'd make a disco out of those, right,

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Speaker 1: or put it on top of a police car. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: like just slap it on top of a fish police

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Speaker 1: car and then the sirens off. And it's funny because

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Speaker 1: it is it's red and blue, so it's it's very pretty.

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Speaker 1: They say bioluminescence or or you say bioluminescence or that's

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Speaker 1: the term, and it's just such a it's such a like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can call it that, but it's also

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Speaker 1: just incredible. I mean, it's just the craziest thing. Ever,

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Speaker 1: how the you know what I mean. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: like you can call it bioluminescence, but it's really just

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Speaker 1: like more like yeah, it is. It is beautiful and nuts.

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Speaker 1: And why how in the old with that develop as

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Speaker 1: a defense mechanism rather than just like some horrible looking

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Speaker 1: thing like a jaw that's loaded, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like they get lights? Why do they get lights? It's

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Speaker 1: other things gets a horrible looking exploding jaw. Well you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe to them, an exploding jaw is attractive.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Jellyfish has a better agent negotiated for

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Speaker 1: the lights. I mean, that's a great thing. You know. Well,

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Speaker 1: marine biologists actually mimic that pattern of light using just

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Speaker 1: like a mechanical device to attract predators. I know, I

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Speaker 1: know they steal it trapped, and so you take them

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Speaker 1: out of the ocean and show them to their girlfriend

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Speaker 1: or I think between that mother in law joke. So anyway, yes,

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Speaker 1: they're pulling these things out. Yeah, they're pulling these things

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Speaker 1: out and making mother in law jokes exactly, and then

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Speaker 1: they yeah, exactly exactly, it's not right. They've even used

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Speaker 1: that alarm to lure in a giant squid, which they

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Speaker 1: caught on film for like one of the it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to catch giant squid all I know, but I

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, Yeah, I like any kind of like

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Speaker 1: treasure hunt kind of thing, you know, I just really

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Speaker 1: like any kind of Yeah, So if there's something it's

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Speaker 1: hard to see or like it's hard to get a

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Speaker 1: picture of, I like that. Like Locknest Monster to me

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Speaker 1: is like, so if I can't see the Locknest Monster,

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Speaker 1: I'll take a giant squid. And I've seen that. It's

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Speaker 1: very neat that they can't see them. Also, anything that

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Speaker 1: exists where it's like we know they exist because whales

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Speaker 1: have scars on from that's incredible. We can't. Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It does make it more real somehow, because I have

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Speaker 1: seen like dead giant squid, and it's somehow just like

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Speaker 1: because it's dead, it almost doesn't register as a real thing.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, okay, I get that's real. But then

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Speaker 1: when you actually see it, moving and alive. It really

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Speaker 1: sinks and it's like, no, this is a real living creature,

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Speaker 1: not just a big dead thing or like a big model.

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Speaker 1: Or you have those pictures of on postcards of like

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Speaker 1: some guy looks like Charlie Chaplin stand next to a

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Speaker 1: giant squid that looks kind of just like a pile

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Speaker 1: of um oh, I don't know something, but not like

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Speaker 1: a live thing, right. I love those postcards though. It

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Speaker 1: is really funny to look at old pictures of what

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Speaker 1: people thought squid and octopus looked like. Like I saw

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Speaker 1: a cartoon of an octopus where it has like a

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Speaker 1: a mouth like a human mouth, and of course they

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Speaker 1: don't have human mountains, they have beaks. But it's just

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Speaker 1: it's really funny to see that like just has this

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Speaker 1: like weird smile with teeth and that that doesn't really happen.

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Speaker 1: But they had no idea what they were doing when

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Speaker 1: they were drawing these animals. But now we can, we

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Speaker 1: can see videos of them because we we stole the

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Speaker 1: idea from the jellyfish, right, So the jellyfish. So these

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Speaker 1: so these biologist dangles, yeah, dangle like lights that look

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Speaker 1: like jellyfish down there and trick giant squid. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: another day at the office the maniacs. What would happen

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Speaker 1: if humans were forced deep, deep under water and had

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Speaker 1: to evolve to survive their environment. First, we'd have to

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Speaker 1: get rid of some of our pesky organs. Lungs obviously

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Speaker 1: don't work under water, but even worse, at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the ocean, the pressure is so great over fifteen

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Speaker 1: thousand p s I. Your lungs would be crushed as

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Speaker 1: the air becomes compressed, and water would force its way

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Speaker 1: into any part of your body still filled with air.

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Speaker 1: And even if we could somehow breathe a tank of

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Speaker 1: air without our lungs collapsing, we would suffer from nitrogen narcosis.

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Speaker 1: In this high pressure environment, nitrogen dissolves out of the

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Speaker 1: air we breathe and would leach into our blood, choking

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Speaker 1: us on the cellular level. So we'd have to ditch

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Speaker 1: the lungs in favor of some nice gill slits, perhaps

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Speaker 1: the ones that are present in fetal development that we've

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Speaker 1: been using forming parts of the ear with no sunlight

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Speaker 1: are year with no sunlight. Our eyes would be used

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Speaker 1: forming parts of the ear with no sunlight, are with

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Speaker 1: no sunlight our eyes would be used us. Unless we

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Speaker 1: could make use of some bioluminescence, we'd either want to

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Speaker 1: ditch the eyes or develop huge, gome like eyes with

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Speaker 1: a nice bioluminescent glow. Due to our relatively large size

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Speaker 1: and the poor nutrition in this environment, we need a

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Speaker 1: much slower metabolism. Our many muscles and bones would become

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Speaker 1: superfluous and perhaps vestigial as we became smooth, gelatinous creatures

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Speaker 1: that slowly float through the depths, hoping to ambush that

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Speaker 1: rare bit of unsuspecting prey. Perhaps we'd be like the

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Speaker 1: greenland sharks, who live hundreds of years due to their

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Speaker 1: very slow metabolism, with sharp serrated teeth that can snatch

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Speaker 1: up prey and prevent them from escaping or jaws. We

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Speaker 1: would in effect become creepy monsters, but we learned to

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Speaker 1: find our new horrible shape to be attractive. In other words,

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Speaker 1: Snapchat filters are helping us adapt to our new deep

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Speaker 1: sea homes. Don't go to a sea which to trade

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00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: your legs and for fins just yet. When we return,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about some alien creatures that can be found

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Speaker 1: a bit closer to home. You don't actually need to

393
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Speaker 1: go to the depths of the ocean to find alien creatures.

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Speaker 1: You can find them in almost every body of water

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Speaker 1: and in almost every inch of the ocean. For example,

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00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: take sea snails please. You probably have an image of

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Speaker 1: a little shell in the snail head poking out, but

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00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: there's a group of teeny tiny sneeze snip sneeze snails.

399
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: There's a group of teeny tiny sea snails and sea

400
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: slugs called teropoda, free swimming gastropods found all over the

401
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: ocean at depths of only around thirty feet, who look

402
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: like a cross between aliens and ghosts. These include sea

403
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: angels who have what appeared to be wings and alien antenna,

404
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: and whose bodies are a pale, ghostly veil of transparent,

405
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: gelatinous flesh. They're carnivores and feed on sea butterflies. Another

406
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: group of pteropods sea butterflies look like a snail, a

407
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: butterfly and orchand and an alien ghost all had a

408
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: baby together. It's golls like wings beat as if it's flying,

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00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: allowing it to swim through the ocean as it carries

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Speaker 1: along it's tiny transparent snail shell encased body. I am

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00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: afraid of no ghost, but an alien ghost. Yeah, I'm

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00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: kind of afraid of that. Yeah. I think that it's

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00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: interesting to see our concepts of science fiction and thinking

414
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: about sci fi and then you look at some of

415
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: our sci fi inventions and you look under the sea

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00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: and they're just there. So like the concept art for

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00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 1: the movie Aliens, like you look under who is that

418
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: guy who made that? Uh? Yeah, that's right. Like hr

419
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: Geiger's illustrations just look like deep sea creatures or animals

420
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: that you can find in the ocean, and even common

421
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: animals that we don't really we don't know that much

422
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: about because either they're small or they're hard to find.

423
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: But like these these snails that are actually really spooky looking.

424
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: They don't look like terrestrial snails at all. It's kind

425
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: of amazing. And I like the idea that I don't

426
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: know that there's all this stuff going on that that

427
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 1: that doesn't care about Donald Trump, you know what I mean,

428
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: Like there's a whole other civilization that's going on that's

429
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: you know, kind of probably going to be fine no

430
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: matter what we do to the planet. They're just going

431
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: to be doing their thing. So later we're going to

432
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: talk to I'm talking to a marine biologist who kept

433
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: an octopus in his home, and the fact that octopuses

434
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: are so intelligent kind of gives me hope that, say

435
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: we screw up the planet, maybe octopuses will be the

436
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: dominant life form and maybe they'll be nicer, right they exactly,

437
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: although we can probably mess up the oceans too. U

438
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: So then they will adapt, probably and they'll just be

439
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: muck monsters, you know, or the plastic eating potato giants

440
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: or whatever they are. You know, Yes, I hope, So,

441
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: I really do. I think so, you know, I mean,

442
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: if plastic eating potato monsters can learn from our mistakes

443
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: and develop a more peaceful society, that'd be great. Yeah,

444
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: eventually one of them will crawl out of the muck

445
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: and become a Koke brother, but I mean that will

446
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: take a long time. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think

447
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: they've crawl into the muck. Come up there. Boom roasted,

448
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: the boom roasted posthumously roasted. That that was real good.

449
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about speaking of disgusting worms roasted,

450
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: really really raking. I'm on fire. Uh So I want

451
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: to talk about um oh boy, here's a here's a

452
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: Latin word that I'm going to try to pronounce and

453
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: get it perfectly the first time gorgon or hightentions ripped

454
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: pens right, otherwise known as the proboscis warm Why don't

455
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: we go with that? Um So, the proboscis worm has

456
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: a branching proboscus that looks like a lightning strike. Um. So,

457
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: when they're attacked, they actually turn their proboscis, which is

458
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: this like it's an extrusion of their mouth that helps

459
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: them hunt and eat a popular it's so fetch down

460
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: in don't exactly it's a versible which just is a

461
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: fancy way of saying it's like reversible, like you can

462
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: turn a glove inside out, So they can turn it

463
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: inside out like a glove. And here's a fun video

464
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: of that happening so you can see it. Just use

465
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: my god, it looks it looks like a lightning strike, right, yeah,

466
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: or else like a spider man out of his mouth,

467
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: you know, like a it's like a web exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly,

468
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: it's a goop web. Uh. And they do that when

469
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: they're being attacked as a kind of like distraction technique.

470
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll even completely toss it like dump it out

471
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: at their attacker so they can escape, which is kind

472
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: of weird because as far as we know, they can't

473
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: grow them back, so it's really a last ditch effort. Yeah,

474
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: and then they can't eat, but hopefully they'll be able

475
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: to reproduce between the time they spit out their means

476
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: of eating. And so that's the that thing they spit

477
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: out is there, like digestive system or something. It's there.

478
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: It's their proboscus, which is like they're basically like a

479
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: tongue um, but they use it for for hunting and

480
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: they'll they'll spit it. They'll capture prey by like poking

481
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: their proboscis out and like snatching it up and pulling

482
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: it in. So if they ditch that, then they no

483
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: longer have the opportut their whole proboscis because exactly they panicked.

484
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: That would suck if like they it was like a

485
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: surprise party for one of these guys, and they're like

486
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: like surprise, like yeah, and just like spit out of

487
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: pros Like Fredd, it was just it's your birthday. It's like, well,

488
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: damn it, now I'm gonna starve to death. And what's

489
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: the name of that animal? It's a proboscis warm or

490
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: gorgon horror's and that's um. I think it's interesting because

491
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: so so I guess like the predator would just be

492
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: like that thing. I mean, you saw that video, if

493
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: you saw that coming at you, well, right, but the

494
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: thing that's trying to eat that thing is probably so

495
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: freaked up looking that why would it be freaked out

496
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: by some goop would be like? Oh, it's all relative though, right,

497
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: Like if you have if you're like one of those

498
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: um goblin sharks, to you, someone with a big pointy

499
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: nose and a big set of jaws you can shoot

500
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: out is attractive, but not like a goop monster. So

501
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's all you know, beauty is relative. It's

502
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: it's all in the eyes or the eye spots or

503
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: proboscis of the beholders. One thing that just kind of

504
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: a quick thing about sand dollars because that's a common

505
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: animal I think people are pretty used to and we

506
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: know we've beach comb them. You pick them up there

507
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 1: the the white that little white disk that has that

508
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: little floral exactly. Yeah, so that's that's when they're dead.

509
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: When they're alive, they're covered in like thousands of tiny

510
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: hair like spines. They look fuzzy, they look like they're

511
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: covered in fluff. And these spines there there are a

512
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: bunch of spines. They're a little they're also tiny tube

513
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: feet called podia and silia, so which is pretty silly.

514
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: Get and these can move around and they actually allow

515
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: the sand dollar to walk on like these hundreds of

516
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: little uh tube feet um. And they also use these

517
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 1: hairs to transfer sand into its mouth. So it's like

518
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: a conveyor belt of thousands of these hairs and they're

519
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: all like pulling these cranes of sand into its mouth

520
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: and then they scrape the algae off and that's what

521
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: they eat. Wow, that's really weird. What a weird thing,

522
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: like a conveyor belt like a human or not a human,

523
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: but like a like a body that is a conveyor

524
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: belt to to bring sand into your mouth so you

525
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: can lick it off. Right. It'd be like as if

526
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: you could put a sandwich on your hand and then

527
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: just a bunch of tiny hairs like drags the sandwich

528
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: up into your mouth. It sounds pretty good. Yeah, if

529
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: if if we up the ocean enough, then someday they

530
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: might they might pull the stand in their mouth. And

531
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: there's no muck on it for them to lick, right exactly.

532
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it is all pretty interlinked. On the

533
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: other hand, the more we screw up, it seems like

534
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: we create a big blooms of algae. So maybe they'll

535
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: be fine, it's just everything else will be dead. Yeah,

536
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: and then they'll get huge algae. Then they'll be like

537
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 1: monster sea or child. Then they'll be like, I've had

538
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: enough of the ocean. I'm coming on land taking it over.

539
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: They'll also eat little tiny pieces of metal because because

540
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: they're um, they kind of lack even though they can

541
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 1: like walk with all their little little hairs, they can't.

542
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: They're not great at locomotions, so they're kind of at

543
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: the mercy of the currents. And they're relatively light, so

544
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: then they would just get tossed around like an ocean frisbee.

545
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: So by eating the metal, they actually can weigh themselves

546
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: down so they can stick in the sand are easily.

547
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: I didn't how and oh that's so strange. And then

548
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: they also uh in response to threats, baby sand dollars,

549
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: which are called larva, will clone themselves, which both makes

550
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: themselves smaller so harder, more difficult targets and increases their numbers,

551
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: so it's a survival strategy. It's like, if you were

552
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: being attacked, you could just split yourself into two smaller guys. Insane.

553
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: I mean, what a what a place? What a place? It? Really?

554
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 1: I feel like the Little Mermaid kind of was selling

555
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: it short, was bearing the lead with like the you know,

556
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: the song and dance number, with all the animals and

557
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: monsters and stuff. It's like, oh, that's pretty neat, but

558
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: they don't show like an animal, like getting split in

559
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: half and forming two smaller animals, which you know, the

560
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: worst thing about that movie exactly. I mean, this is

561
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: one of the coolest. It's one of the weirdest animals,

562
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: I think. And it's called planary in, which is a

563
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: flat worm that's found all over the world. Uh in

564
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: salt water and fresh water. There even some terrestrial ones,

565
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: so they're they're everywhere. Um, and they're very simple. They're

566
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: just basically they look like little brown linguini and they

567
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: have they have eye spots, not really eyeballs, because it's

568
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: just like a cluster of cells that can detect light

569
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: and dark. So very simple. Their brain is a ganglion,

570
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: which is just a cluster of nerve cells um and

571
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: just just like your mother in law ganglion head, and

572
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: it also has just like a kind of very simple

573
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: nerve cord um, no spine, no bones. Uh. They don't

574
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: have lungs or circulatory system. They just absorb oxygen through

575
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: their body. They have pharynx which is kind of like

576
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: both a throat and a bottle at the same time, um,

577
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: and a gastrovascular cavity instead of a stomach, and so

578
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: they're very simple. They use the eye spots to kind

579
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: of vaguely see their environment. They eat through their quote

580
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: unquote mouth opening of their pharynx on in the middle

581
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: of them, and then digest it through their just basically

582
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: a hole in their bodies. So very attractive. They pee

583
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: through their skin. Yeah that's good. Um. Yeah, they they

584
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: poop through their pharynx, but then they pee through their body,

585
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: so any liquid waste is excreted through their their skin. Well,

586
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 1: they're in the water, so it doesn't matter, yeah, exactly.

587
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: I mean, who doesn't peanut, It doesn't pee in the pool.

588
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: You know. There's some animal that down there is designed

589
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: to drink whatever they're into. It just design specifically to

590
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: drink what's the name of this animal, probably just urinated

591
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: through its skin at least I don't know if they

592
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: drink it, but they're at least into it. You know,

593
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: they're freaky. Planarians are even more freaky. They can regrow

594
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: their entire body from tiny like if you cut it,

595
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: you can it just regrows the whole body. So they

596
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: can regrow their head, eye spots, pharynx, and everything they

597
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: need from sliced pieces. So you can cut You can

598
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: cut a planarian like a loaf of bread, and each

599
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: chunk is going to grow into a new polinarian. You

600
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: can even you can bisect it. You can cut it

601
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: in any which way one like they've roughly like one

602
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: two hundred of the planarian can be cut and regrow

603
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: so tiny sections of it. Um you can even you

604
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: can even like partially bisect it, so kind of like

605
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: split it down the middle slightly, but like not all

606
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: the way, so it'll grow two heads on one organism.

607
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: That that's ah, that's nice. I mean it's nice for

608
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: them that they get cut. Yeah, they're like, who cares. Yeah,

609
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: now I'm gonna have a friend. Yeah, yes, I'm glad

610
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: you have someone to hang out with. You get it,

611
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: you slay yourselves see queens and then grow anew. I

612
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: wonder if they both have the same personality both their

613
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: segments after they grow question. I mean, their personality has

614
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: got to be very simple because their brands are so tiny.

615
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, it would suck though, if like

616
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: one of them was like super into other things than

617
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: the other one and it was like, you know, just

618
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: like really different or politically very different and they had

619
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: to share a body. Can you imagine they've had to

620
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: fight with themselves right Thanksgiving? Would be so awkward, even

621
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: worse than humans. Exactly. They can regrow because they use

622
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: stem cells, which are the kinds of selves found in

623
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: embryonic humans. Unlike humans, we don't we don't have stem

624
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: cells as adults that are throughout the body that can

625
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: just like regrow a finger. Although you know, re searchers

626
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: are trying to use human stem cells to see if

627
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: we can regrow body parts. So if you cut off

628
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: a fingertip and then you treat it with stem cells,

629
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: you can grow your fingertip back. Um. Unfortunately, we're kind

630
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: of not at the stage where we can just rub

631
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: planarians all over our body and regrow right body. But uh,

632
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we can study them and figure out

633
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: how they manage this and then can it would be

634
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: really useful, Like during the French Revolution, you know robes Pier,

635
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: he cut off his head. It just grows a little

636
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: tiny body out of it, like like I'm the new Robespierre. Righted,

637
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: history would have exactly planarian robes Pierre. I don't know

638
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: why I'm talking about robes Pier because he's a famous

639
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: he's a famous planarian. He got his he got his

640
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: head cut off, right, he's the most He cut off

641
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: a bunch of people's heads, right. I wouldn't have gone

642
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: on a French Revolution podcast. Yeah, well, this isn't that.

643
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: I'd love to see French people try to cut off

644
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: Planarian's head and just get really frustrated, like some kind

645
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: of bourgeoisie. Planarian keeps getting its head cut off. It's like, man,

646
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 1: we just keep making new ones. That's why they don't

647
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: have capital punishment undersea. That's true. That actually think that

648
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: is correct. That's right, because you you just can't do it.

649
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: You can't. You just make more more of them, will

650
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: make a mess. You got a courtroom, will turn into

651
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: who knows, everybody will start squirting stuff and growing stuff,

652
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: shooting out there and someone else Easter proboscars or is

653
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: I like to call it a nice time? Why are

654
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: we so fascinated with intelligent aliens? One theory is that

655
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: as science advances, we are seeking a replacement to religion.

656
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: Instead of a god, we want to believe in the

657
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: existence of intelligent life beyond our pale blue dot. A

658
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: psychology study by North Dakota State University found that religiousness

659
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: and believe in aliens were inversely related. Those who were

660
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: non religious but will expressed a desire for meaning, we're

661
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: more likely to believe in extraterrestrial intelligence. But is this

662
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: belief in aliens just a replacement for religion, or is

663
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: the instinct that there may be more intelligent life beyond

664
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: our world rational? Personally, I think that if there's a

665
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: planet out there with conditions suitable for life, there's a

666
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: non zero chance that intelligent life may form. In fact,

667
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: as will soon discuss, we have evidence that intelligent life

668
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: can evolve separately from humans. When we return, I'll be

669
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: joined by one such human who formed an emotional bond

670
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: with one such of these homegrown intelligent alien life forms

671
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: octopuses They're one of my favorite aquatic animals, and I'm

672
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: hoping once you've listened to this interview, they'll become yours

673
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: as well. Octopuses are beautiful, strange, and intelligent creatures. Their

674
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: skin can change color at the blink of an eye

675
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: due to color changing cells called chromatophores. They have no

676
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: bones and can squeeze through tiny holes that are action

677
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: of their normal body size. The largest octopus, the giant

678
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: Pacific octopus, weighs in it about a hundred and fifty pounds,

679
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: whereas the star sucker pigmy octopus weighs in it less

680
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: than a gram. Octopus is evolved somewhat independently from humans.

681
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: Our last common ancestor was probably something like the polenarian,

682
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: a worm like creature with simple eye spots, around seven

683
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: hundred fifty million years ago. That means they're complex, incredible

684
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: brains evolved on a completely separate limb of the evolutionary tree.

685
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: So if you're wondering what alien intelligence looks like, who's

686
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: got eight limbs and no thumbs? These guys joining me

687
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: today is professor of Marine biology at the Alaska Pacific

688
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: University and Anchorage. David shield In octopus making contact. The

689
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: season premiere of PBSS Nature, Professor Shield invites an octopus

690
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: named Heidi into his living room and sees what kind

691
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: of relationship can be formed with an octopus. Thank you

692
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: so much for joining us, Professor Shield, as you're thank

693
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: you for having me. So when you first decided to

694
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: welcome an octopus into your home, what were you hoping

695
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: to find out? Well? Um, I think I say this

696
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: in the film, but it's really just a way to

697
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: spend more time playing with an octopus without the limitations

698
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: of being underwater myself. You know, so scuba diving can

699
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: be fairly limited, and so this was a way to

700
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: expand on that. What new things did you pick up

701
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: on by having the Heidi the octopus in your living room? Um,

702
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: I don't know so much. If it was about learning

703
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: something new, is just kind of being present with the

704
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: animal for a longer period of time, um, and kind

705
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: of having that continual input to mall things over and

706
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: think about things. I guess I got a little more

707
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: interested in understanding octopus cognition and the way they encounter

708
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: their world than I had been prior to the project. Yeah,

709
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: that makes sense to me, because so I never had

710
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: a dog growing up, and when I got a dog,

711
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: I was so fascinated with the way that I saw

712
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: her mind working. Uh and in a way I didn't

713
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: really expect, like I would see her looking for things

714
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: and just be so so interested in how she would

715
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: get up on her hind legs to kind of look

716
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: around her environments. Like, huh. So so weird living with

717
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: an animal that is showing signs of this human level cognition.

718
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: And I imagine that's even weirder with an octopus, which

719
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: is not a mammal, evolved completely separately from us, So

720
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: it's it's such an alien looking creature. Yeah, And I

721
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: think I think in in today's world, we don't often

722
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time with animals, and particularly not

723
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: with a bunch of different kinds of animals. You know,

724
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: people spend time with dogs and cats and and maybe

725
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: just some extent birds, um. And so it's kind of

726
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 1: fascinating to spend time with any animal that's much more

727
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: distantly related to us. Uh. And so that was I

728
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: find that interesting as well, and that was what made

729
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: this project kind of fun. Well started your fascination with

730
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: octopuses because I think you mentioned in the documentary that

731
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: you've been studying them for around twenty years. Over twenty years,

732
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: yeah about let's see, I started so yeah, almost twenty

733
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: five years now. The I mean, I've always been fascinated

734
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: with octopuses. Who wouldn't be right? Um? Uh? You know,

735
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: when I was about twelve years old, I received a

736
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: copy of Chacousta's book Soft Intelligence as a gift, But

737
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: I think I was fascinated by ocean life even before then.

738
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: At the time, I read a lot of science fiction,

739
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: and I suppose there's a twelve year old I thought

740
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: being a marine biologist might be as close as I

741
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: could never get to studying life from another planet. Yeah,

742
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: and you mentioned in the documentary how octopuses are about

743
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: as alien as you can get in terms of intelligent

744
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: animals because of how far back they are separated from

745
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: us on the evolutionary tree. Can you talk a little

746
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: bit about how they really evolved all these structures completely

747
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: independently of humans, like their eyes and their heart and

748
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: their brains. You know, it's it's probably a stretch to

749
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: say completely independently, but I think it's true that evolutionary

750
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: science has been surprised several times over the last twenty

751
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: five or thirty years in understanding how deep the roots

752
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: of evolutionary traits go. I mean, I remember when hawks genes,

753
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: for example, were first discovered. People were talking about the

754
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: fact that it seemed like limbs and much of the

755
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: regulatory structure of animals was the same, whether you were

756
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: talking about a marine polocyte worm or a mammal, and

757
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: that was really surprising to evolutionary biologists at the time,

758
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: or at least two some of them. UM, and so

759
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: I think the roots what what this really shows is

760
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: not so much that that the evolution of oxopus and

761
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: humans has been completely independent, but that the roots of

762
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: UM what we think about is fairly advanced traits might

763
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: in fact be extremely deep. Octopuses having common with humans,

764
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: probably some aspects of the visual system, some aspects of

765
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: sensory ecology, some aspects of nervous evolution that are common

766
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: to all animals, and we're present very early on in

767
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: the animal stem. On the other hand, the general organization

768
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: of their nervous system, the way it's laid out in

769
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: the body, the way the brain grows, the way um

770
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: nerves are distributed in the brain versus the body. These

771
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: things seem to be really different between octopuses and for example, mammals,

772
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: and so it's it is really fascinating to look at

773
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: the ways that the octopus functions. Is sometimes considered an

774
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: honorary vertebrate. You know, it functions in many ways that

775
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: are very similar to the ways that dog or a

776
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: catworld function Uh. And yeah, it's organization at the at

777
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: the at the gross anatomy level is very different. And

778
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: so it's it's a lot of it's very intriguing to

779
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: compare and think about why that those big differences in anatomy.

780
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: Um nevertheless seemed very approachable to us. We feel like

781
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: we have a connection with this animal that looks back

782
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: at us with these very different eyes, but very recognizable eyes. Yeah,

783
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: that's so interesting to me. And one one of the

784
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: things that I find interesting and sad is the short

785
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: lifespan of the octopus because it's so intelligent. You know,

786
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: already I feel sad about like dogs having a shorter

787
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: lifespan than humans, but some of these octopuses have such short,

788
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: fleeting lifespans, but they're also so intelligent. It seems kind

789
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: of cruel of nature to do this. Um, And what

790
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: do you think it's like, from the perspective of the octopus,

791
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: what do you think it's like to have that intelligence

792
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: but also have such a short lifespan that almost it

793
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: seems to end as soon as the new generation of

794
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: octopus has come into play. Yeah. I don't have the

795
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: sense that they worry too much about how time is left.

796
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: You know, at the end, male pretty busy looking for

797
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: mating opportunities. Females are pretty busy tending their eggs, So

798
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: they kind of have a lot going on, and I

799
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: don't imagine they dwell much on the inevitable. Yeah, that

800
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: maybe that's a blessing in a way. They just live

801
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: in the moment. We should all be so lucky, right exactly.

802
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: You mentioned in the documentary, uh that your observations of

803
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: Heidi aren't exactly scientific. But did you find that it

804
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: helped influence your research and your understanding of octopuses or

805
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: did it just give you sort of a new dimension

806
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: to the meaning of your research. It's probably too soon

807
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: to tell. Um. I'm thinking now more about octopus cognition

808
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: and how they encounter and perceive their world, and so

809
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: that might influence future research directions. But you know, research

810
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: is this, uh, this intriguing mixture of directions and questions

811
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: that interests the researcher and opportunities that exist, and so

812
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: you have to get them somehow to line up before

813
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: you've got a new direction. Yeah, that makes sense. It's

814
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: a much slower process than maybe building the emotional connection

815
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: with the octopus, which because it seemed maybe there was

816
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: like a little bit of a moment of acclamation. But

817
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: both you guys, you and your daughter and the octopus

818
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: seemed to become pretty fast friends pretty quickly. It was

819
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: I thought it was really cute when your daughter would

820
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: come home and the octopus would rush over to the

821
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: other side of the tank to greeter, just like a

822
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: dog or a cat would. Why do you think hidio

823
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 1: is so excited to see you guys? And what does

824
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: affection mean for an octopus? Well, this is a question.

825
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you liked attention? Um and you know, stimulus,

826
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: string play. She liked having things going on. Plus probably

827
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: our hands tasted a little bit like the anticipation of

828
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: a meal. Uh, you know, because we handle the shrimp

829
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so whatever chemical signals or sense we

830
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 1: have um that she can detect, that's got to become

831
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: over time become associated with with food and reward you

832
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: Pavlov's octopus. Yeah, Pavlov's octopus exactly what and so like that.

833
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that she seemed to really

834
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: like to hold hands, and that kind of explains why

835
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: that she associates hands with food. She would also squirt

836
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: water at you guys. Do you think she was being

837
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: mischievous or is that an octopus is way of exploring

838
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: their world. Yeah, the squirting is it's used in the

839
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: wild as a way to deter nuisances. So if a fish,

840
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: little little fish even doesn't have to be a threatening fish,

841
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: but even a little fish gets interested in octopus, then

842
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: the octopus will squirt water added a jetta water added

843
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: to try and drive it away or kind of reach

844
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: out with one arm and try and bat it out

845
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: of the way. Um. I think there's a moment of

846
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: that in the film too. But you know, in terms

847
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: of sporting us, I think maybe it starts out that

848
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: way of like just seeing what happens, but then you know,

849
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 1: once you've taken a bucket of octopus water in the face. Um,

850
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: I think the octopus learns that she can get a

851
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: reaction out of you. And so that that might be

852
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: part of it too. And can she do you think

853
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: she can kind of read your body language and your expression?

854
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: I know in the documentary you mentioned she can recognize

855
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: human faces and you would wear a mask when you

856
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: had to weigh her, so she wouldn't associate you with

857
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: an unpleasant activity. Do you think she can read expressions

858
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: or body language? Yeah, I'm not sure that's a that's

859
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: a good question. Um. You know, I once kept an

860
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: oxopus in my facility at the university that got to

861
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: be fairly famous for aiming for people's faces with the

862
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: squirt of water. And and in in the at the university,

863
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: the water's Alaskan water, so it's quite cold to take

864
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: a squirt in the face. And so one day I

865
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: was given a tour in the lab and I decided

866
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: I didn't want to take a squirt of water in

867
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: the face, and so I there was this vertical sort

868
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: of panel that when you opened the tank, that's clear,

869
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: and so I sort of stood behind that where the

870
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: octopus could could see me, and I could see the

871
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: oxopus and I could talk to the visitors. But you know,

872
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: I was protected from that squirt of water and and

873
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: the octopus managed to shoot directly up over that barrier

874
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: and hit me in the top of the head. Anyway. Wow,

875
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: that's a clever girl. I don't know if that's reading

876
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 1: facial expressions, but she certainly was tracked thing where I was. Yeah,

877
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: so that's an interesting understanding of physics. Yeah, it was

878
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. I kind of felt like I was safe,

879
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: but it turned out not to be the case. Speaking

880
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: of their sense of physics, one of the methods of

881
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: play that octopus is engaged in is they take that

882
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: empty pill bottle that's buoyant and they push it into

883
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: inside the tank. They have that jet of water circulating

884
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 1: through the tank, and they kind of put it, push

885
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: it into that jet of water and watch it spin

886
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: around the tank and come back to them, kind of

887
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: like they're playing fetch with themselves. Do you think that's

888
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: what it is or what do you think is the

889
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: purpose of that form of play. Yeah, that was actually

890
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: a recreation of an experiment that was done in the

891
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: Seattle Aquarium. So, yeah, the water is circulating and kind

892
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: of a you know, a big gyre around the tank,

893
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: and and that's because there's a jet you know, the

894
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: surface that's blowing water out and then given the sort

895
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: of confined to the tank. That creates a cycle in

896
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: the tank where the water comes back to its starting point.

897
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: And in the Seattle experiment, the octopus was you know,

898
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: they did it with several octopuses, and not all of

899
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: them did it, but the ones who did would use

900
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: their own jet to blow this neutrally buoyant toebottle out

901
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: into the into the current, have it circled around, and

902
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: then they grab it when it comes the other way

903
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: and comes back to them, and then push it back out.

904
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: And the experimenters likened that to bouncing a ball um,

905
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: which is a form of play, just sort of engaging

906
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: in repetitive motion. You know, in some ways, it's a

907
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: little reminiscent of there was a paper not too many

908
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: years ago, five or ten years ago maybe that documented

909
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 1: that that birds, parrots specifically not songbirds, but parrots had

910
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: a rhythmic sense and could dance to human music. So this,

911
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: you know, this sense of rhythm maybe one of these

912
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: very deep evolutionary things that many animals possess. Yeah, that's

913
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: so that's so interesting because I know we've talked on

914
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: the show before about parents who will actually use sticks

915
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: or other things in their environment to kind of drum.

916
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: So it's this weird bird form of making music themselves

917
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: and kind of dancing to the beat of it. And

918
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: I think this idea that in birds are quite alien

919
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,760
Speaker 1: to us as well. I mean, we're we're a little

920
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: more related to birds than we are two octopus is right,

921
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: but um, but still like theyre, they diverged quite a

922
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 1: while ago. But it's it is really interesting to see

923
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: these kind of parallels of play and an understanding of

924
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: repetitive motion or maybe rhythm. Do you think so? So

925
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned that our last common ancestor with an octopus

926
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: was probably a flat worm like animal, and they evolved intelligence,

927
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: like you said, maybe not completely independently, as obviously we

928
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: shared a common ancestor, but uh, they in a parallel

929
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: way they developed this intelligence. Do you think that given

930
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: the right conditions, like a planet that supports life, that

931
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: intelligent life is very likely, like sort of inevitable, or

932
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: do you think that we're just extremely lucky to have

933
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: this happen. Well, you know, it's a big universe, and

934
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: I you know, astronomers are discovering exoplanets with some regularity.

935
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: It seems like, and so I suspect Earth is not

936
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: particularly unique across the scale of the of the universe.

937
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: UM and so, Yeah, if you have a planet that

938
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: supports life, once the life becomes active, that is, once

939
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: uh an organism has to control its own body parts

940
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: in relation to information that comes in from a complex

941
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: environment and has to move through that environment like animals

942
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: do in this planet, then I don't think it's it's

943
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: that unexpected to find different degrees of intelligence and problem solving. Yeah.

944
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,479
Speaker 1: Do you think if mammals and humans never really rose

945
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: to prominence, that some kind of intelligence sea life, maybe

946
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 1: like the octopus, could have formed primate like or human

947
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: like intelligence, or or some kind of society, or do

948
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: you think that the environment of the ocean would be

949
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: somewhat prohibitive towards that kind of evolutionary path. Well, that

950
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: depends what you mean by sort of you know, human

951
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: like or primate like intelligence. I mean, we consider elephants

952
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: to be pretty smart, and an elephant trunk works on

953
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: a similar biomechanical principle to octopus arms. You know, they

954
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: have that same kind of dexterity. UM. And so you

955
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: know that's a level to which UM you know, octopuses

956
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: might might be similar. At the same time, if you

957
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: are looking at sort of human levels of technology, then

958
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest obstacle to to that is really

959
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: probably water. Um any sort of manufacturing process based on

960
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: combustion doesn't work so well underwater, and octopus biology is

961
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 1: pretty intimately tied up with seawater, so they're not they're

962
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: not well poised right now evolutionarily to just come walking

963
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: out onto dry land. So maybe no cars made out

964
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: of seaweed, and uh, well it's yeah, it's a little

965
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: difficult to imagine a completely underwater combustion based technology getting started.

966
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you think about early technologies

967
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: for humans, fire was probably pretty important in going from

968
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: um of the very simple tool making society to a

969
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: more technological society, and so that that seems like that's

970
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: easier on land than it is underwater. They do use

971
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: sort of these simple tools to some extent, like the

972
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: octopuses that will hide in coconuts. Do you think does

973
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: that count as tool used? Do you think they learn

974
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: this behavior? Is it an instinctive behavior to to use

975
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: these coconuts as camouflage? Well? That yeah, that example of

976
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: the coconuts has been considered a very minimal type of

977
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: tool use. Tool uses usually thought about modifying an object

978
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: to suit a purpose for the user, but the modification

979
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: in this case is pretty simple, just assembling two halves,

980
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: like picking up two sides of a clamshell. So it

981
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: probably counts the tool use, but it's a pretty minimal kind.

982
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: And the importance of tool use in sort of you know,

983
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: there's this there's this history in talking about human intelligence

984
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: of trying to claim a unique spot in the world

985
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: for humans as rational agents, and tools were one way

986
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: to sort of draw the line right between us and

987
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. It is probably misguided to

988
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: try and draw a lie, and so any way that

989
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: you would attempt to demarcate that line is probably also misguided.

990
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: And so you know, um, there they are. They have

991
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: the kinds of intelligence they do. They're kind of amazing

992
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: at it. They can open a clam better than I can,

993
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: for sure. Um, but if you want to have a

994
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: conversation with with words, then you probably want to look

995
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: for a person, not an octopus. Do you think One

996
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: of the more shocking things that I saw in the

997
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: documentary was this video of Heidi possibly dreaming, could you

998
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about because it didn't even occur

999
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: to me that maybe octopuses could dream, especially in the

1000
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: way that Heidi does. Um, well, you know, octopuses sleep.

1001
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: So this turns out to very likely be one of

1002
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: those extremely deep connections amongst all animals, in the sense

1003
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: that in any animal fila where people have looked carefully,

1004
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: there seems to be evidence that the animals need to sleep.

1005
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: And in the case of mollusks octopuses, they also seem

1006
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: to have something similar to what we call rapid eye

1007
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: movement and sleep, which is one of two types of

1008
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: sleep that that humans have. And so there they are

1009
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: engaged in sleep and engaged in rapid eye movement sleep.

1010
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: But we don't really fully understand what sleep does for humans,

1011
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: let alone for other animals. And do we really know

1012
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: what dreaming is either, I'm not sure. And so if

1013
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: we can't even answer those questions for people, it's it's

1014
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: that much harder to answer them for for octopuses. But

1015
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: we do use, we do use our behavior even amongst

1016
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: people as an indication of our internal state, Like what's

1017
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: going on with me while people look at me, whether

1018
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm pacing, whether I'm nervous, whether I'm yelling, you know,

1019
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: and they use my behavior to get a sense and

1020
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: read my mental state, and we accept that. We consider

1021
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: that to be fine, and sometimes we extend it to

1022
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: our dogs, you know, we say, oh, look his legs

1023
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: are running, you know, and he's twitching, and he's probably

1024
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: dreaming of chasing a rabbit. So if we do that

1025
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 1: same sort of thing for the octopus, they have these

1026
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: amazing abilities to change the color and texture of their skin,

1027
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: and this is a behavior that we can see, and

1028
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: they do it when they're asleep sometimes. And so there's

1029
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: this bit in the film where you can see this

1030
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 1: octopus going through a sequence of of of of color

1031
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: changes and texture changes. And so in the film, I

1032
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: I sort of narrate that is that typical of a

1033
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: behavior that the octopus might might exhibit, And it seems

1034
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: to vaguely match up with what you would expect to

1035
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: see if the occupus were pouncing on a crab. But

1036
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: in this case, the octupus is clearly asleep, so maybe

1037
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: she's dreaming. That comparison to watching your dog kind of

1038
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: twitching in their sleep and the little legs kind of

1039
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: moving a little bit in their mouth twitching. I think

1040
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: it's very apt because obviously we don't we can't be

1041
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: inside the heads of other animals. We can't even, like

1042
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,439
Speaker 1: you said, dreaming is pretty mysterious even for humans. We

1043
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: we don't actually know exactly how and why dreams happen, uh,

1044
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: And so we can just kind of guess that maybe

1045
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: since animals have the this basic similarity that's basic parallel

1046
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: to our brains, and they also sleep, and they seem

1047
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: to exhibit little motor functions that that are suppressed because

1048
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: of the way sleep functions. But it does seem to

1049
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: mirror some of their awake behavior. I think to me,

1050
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: it's a pretty strong indicator that they're at least kind

1051
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: of going through the motions maybe of their day, maybe

1052
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: read thinking about what happened that day, or generalizing and

1053
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: thinking about these behaviors in general. And then it shows

1054
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: up on their body when we're in sleep and the

1055
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: brain stops signals to the rest of to our spinal cord,

1056
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: which case the octopus doesn't have a spinal cord, so

1057
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm supposing it stops signals to the nerve structure somehow.

1058
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: It must yeah, right, I'm not a sleep biologist. But

1059
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that's interesting about this

1060
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: is if if sleep is evolutionarily very deep, and it

1061
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: has a function that pretty much all animals with nervous

1062
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: systems need, and and if dreaming is important, you know,

1063
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: then that raises the question not just about humans and

1064
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: dogs and occupuses, but like do jellyfish dream? Right? Um? So,

1065
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, I think this is just it's one area

1066
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: where we don't necessarily have a complete story yet about

1067
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: what the biological functions of these things are or whether

1068
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: they're just phenomenon that occur in systems that, you know,

1069
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 1: nervous systems that have these properties that need to sleep.

1070
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: Dreaming might simply occur as a byproduct of things that

1071
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: are important. It might not be an important product itself.

1072
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really know. I don't know that

1073
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: anyone really knows. Yeah, like kind of a spandrel of

1074
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: just having a brain and thinking and then also having

1075
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: to sleep. Yeah. One other thing I was kind of

1076
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 1: interested in is the extent to which octopuses will socialize

1077
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: with each other. They seem rather solitary, but I know

1078
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 1: that they do occasionally bump bump tentacles with each other,

1079
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: and they're not necessarily unfriendly. But can you talk a

1080
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: little bit about what the social life of an octopus

1081
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: is like in the wild? Yeah, well, I think you know,

1082
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: as a general rule, the characterization of of octopuses is

1083
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: probably as solitary seems to bear up reasonably well. They

1084
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, for many octopuses when you find them there alone.

1085
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: On the other hand, we're still sorting out what the

1086
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: exceptions are to that and when they occur in how commonly,

1087
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: And the more we the more we look, the more

1088
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: exceptions we find, and so that that seems to be

1089
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: fairly interesting. Octopuses do appear to interact with one another

1090
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: more than had previously been noticed. I work also sometimes

1091
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: at that site that is visited towards the very end

1092
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: of the film in Australia, and at those sites you

1093
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: might have sixteen or seventeen octopuses in a relatively small area,

1094
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: and they do seem to interact with one another routinely

1095
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: throughout the day. Um, but we still haven't sorted out

1096
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: what those interactions are about, or how typical they are,

1097
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: how important they are to the animal's life. They may

1098
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: occur simply because it's a dangerous world out there, and

1099
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: this relatively small patch of habitat has a lot of

1100
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: good shelter, and so it forces the animals into contact

1101
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: with one another. But at the same time, when they're

1102
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: in contact whether another, they are using signaling we think,

1103
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: and a fairly complex set of behaviors and your actions.

1104
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: And so they seem to have access to ways to

1105
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: moderate the need to interact with one another, and they

1106
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: have tools to do that. I don't mean manufactured tools,

1107
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: I mean behavioral patterns to do that. And so that

1108
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: suggests that even if even if interacting with other octopuses

1109
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: doesn't happen daily in the life of most octopuses, when

1110
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: it does happen, they know how to deal with it.

1111
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: So they're they're introverts, but they know how to function,

1112
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: especially something like that. Yeah, yeah, I may or may

1113
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: not know people like that. I may or may not

1114
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: be a person. So are they any other octopus facts

1115
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: that you think people should know? You know, I tell

1116
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: my students there's an octopus in every lesson. And what

1117
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: I mean by that is, you know, when I'm teaching

1118
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: ethics or philosophy or aquarium biology, I kind of mean

1119
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: it's easy to talk about how we should treat other humans,

1120
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: or or what does a fish need to survive in

1121
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: an aquarium? Because those are very familiar cases that we

1122
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: we talk about all the time. And what makes this

1123
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: octopus film interesting and what makes occopus is interesting is

1124
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: there a very different other case. They are what's been

1125
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: called a distant and challenging case, and because of that,

1126
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: they make the questions much clearer. You know, if we

1127
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: want to ask how does what what do humans owe

1128
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: in ethical treatment of animals? Right, if we ask that

1129
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: question about a chimpanzee, it seems pretty straightforward. If we

1130
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: ask that question about a dog, it seems pretty straightforward.

1131
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,919
Speaker 1: But by the time we get to an octopus, it's

1132
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: a much harder question and we have to think about

1133
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: it a lot more clearly. And so that's why I

1134
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: think it's important to have a film about octopuses, and

1135
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: why I think we if we're going to talk about octopuses,

1136
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: we should do it in a way that um is

1137
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: respectful of what they might offer us, including in the headlines.

1138
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I mean, I think it's hard for people

1139
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: to put themselves on the shoes of like an animal

1140
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: that literally can't wear shoes. It's just so alien to us.

1141
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: But I think they just need four pairs of a yeah,

1142
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: pull a squid word there. Um. Yeah. I think if

1143
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: we can learn to empathize with an octopus, maybe that

1144
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: would be good for our society as a whole. Like,

1145
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: if you can empathize with an octopus, you can empathize

1146
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: with other people and maybe be a better people. You know, more,

1147
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 1: empathy can't hurt, right, exactly. Well, thank you so much

1148
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: for joining us today, and again, you guys can check

1149
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: out the documentary. It's called Octopus Making Contact. You can

1150
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: catch that tonight on PBS. It's October two and it's

1151
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: airing today to the season premiere of Nature. It's an

1152
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: excellent documentary, so check that out. Thank you for speaking

1153
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: with me. So I'm back with Chris crofton uh So.

1154
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 1: We just finished talking about keeping an octopus as like

1155
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: a family member in your home. I don't know. I

1156
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: always knew octopuses were intelligent, but the idea of them

1157
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 1: dreaming and playing basically playing like ball with themselves, like

1158
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: tossing a little buoyant ball around, and I didn't know

1159
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: any of that stuff. Yeah, I had no idea that

1160
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: an octopus was intelligent. I'm still not sure that they are.

1161
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: I think maybe this this biologist guy might be insane.

1162
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 1: I've got to take his side. I think that there's

1163
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence of how intelligent they are, especially

1164
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 1: because they can basically escape any any tank that they're

1165
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: in because they're so squishy, they can slip out of

1166
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: little holes. And then question where are they going to

1167
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 1: go steal? They'll steal people's goldfish. So like if you

1168
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: have like an aquarium that has an octopus in it,

1169
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: they've been known to escape out of the aquarium, go

1170
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: over to the bowl of goldfish and eat the goldfish. Okay,

1171
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: well that was that? That Okay, that explains I guess

1172
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: if there's a goldfish nearby. But what else they if

1173
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: they get out of a out of a out of

1174
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: their tank, where are they going to go? They don't

1175
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 1: they need to be wet, they do they I think

1176
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: even though they're intelligence, they that doesn't necessarily mean that

1177
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: they have um street smarts. So like they get out

1178
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 1: of their tank, they get the they get their illicit goods.

1179
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,679
Speaker 1: There is one story of an octopus that like escaped

1180
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: from uh its container and it was like on a ship,

1181
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: it'd either escape from a net or a container and

1182
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: then it like crawled along the ship and it can

1183
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: survive surprisingly long time, and then it went into like

1184
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: a teapot full of water. Oh I saw a video

1185
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: of a something an octopus doing something interesting, but I

1186
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,600
Speaker 1: can't really Oh yeah, yeah, there's a viral video of

1187
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: an octopus who's on the deck of a fishing boat

1188
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: and then it squeezes through a tiny hole in the

1189
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: ship into the water. Yeah. Yeah, So they're pretty weirdly

1190
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: capable on land. Obviously they won't survive too long on land,

1191
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: but they can move pretty good. It is kind of

1192
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, all right, I guess this is the

1193
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: thing I have a question about, Katie, and that is why. Now,

1194
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: if you're an intelligent octopus, I mean, this is so

1195
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: interesting because you're applying, like I'm applying human sort of

1196
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: emotions to intelligence, which doesn't necessarily that's who don't necessarily

1197
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 1: go together, so it's different. It's probably a different kind

1198
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: of intelligence. But I'm imagining that if you are super

1199
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: intelligent and you're an octopus, you're probably a reincarnated human

1200
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: being punished, because who the hell wants to be an octopus?

1201
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, in a way it might

1202
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: be kind of fun. They can, like they can take

1203
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,560
Speaker 1: east with their arms. But I'm thinking this is the

1204
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 1: way I think that. I'm like, I'm thinking an octopus

1205
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: is thinking to itself, who the hell wants to be

1206
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: an octopus, which is obviously not a thought that that

1207
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: would have. I don't know, I mean, we I did

1208
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: talk about earlier. How I think it's kind of cruel

1209
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: that octopuses are fairly intelligent, but they have such short lifespans.

1210
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: But maybe that just makes them live in the moment more.

1211
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: It's like dolphins being super intelligent. Like I'm like, I

1212
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: always think of it in terms of human intelligence, So

1213
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 1: I'm like, I bet dolphins are pretty mad they can't

1214
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: go to a concert. Well, there's this famous Douglas Adams

1215
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: quote that I really love, which is like humans always

1216
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: think and I'm just paraphrasing here, but it's like humans

1217
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: always think that we're the most intelligent ones because we've

1218
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:47,799
Speaker 1: built societies and roads and cars and bureaucracy, while dolphins

1219
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: are just mucking around playing in the water, and dolphins

1220
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: think they're the most intelligent for the exact same reason, right,

1221
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. So I imagine, Yeah, an octopus is

1222
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: being some miserable Einstein. You're like, oh, intelligent, that means Einstein.

1223
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 1: So it's like Einstein, except it's like he he has

1224
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: to be in a tank. I don't know, but well

1225
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: not always. That's like Einstein in a tank. But like

1226
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: if an octopus, so like if you could like shift

1227
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: your body into every shape and squeeze through holes and

1228
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: like you can taste with your tentacles and um, change

1229
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: change color and texture and just kind of I don't know,

1230
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 1: it'd be kind but you like, but then to like somebody,

1231
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: like the octopus is excited when the guy's daughter comes home.

1232
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: That's that's that's weird to me. I mean it is.

1233
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: It is weird because it really kind of puts our

1234
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: own minds in perspective where we kind of feel like

1235
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: humans were special at least mammals are special, right, like

1236
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 1: humans and primates, and because like you can you look

1237
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 1: at a dog and you can look into a dog's

1238
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 1: eyes and you're like, okay, so the dog likes to

1239
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: have its belly rubbed and and that kind of makes

1240
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: sense because they're they're mammals too. They have expressions that

1241
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: we can read. Um, we've we've actually co evolved with dogs,

1242
01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 1: so we can both kind of read each other's by

1243
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: d language fairly well. But with an octopus, they're so

1244
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 1: they've evolved in such a different environment. That connection of

1245
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: like I can read their body language, they can read

1246
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: my body language is very is much more difficult. So

1247
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 1: imagining them their emotional state is so much harder, where

1248
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, are they happy or they excited? And

1249
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 1: what does that mean? It it? I mean, obviously there's

1250
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 1: no definitive answers because we can't be inside an octopus

1251
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: brain unless Elon Musk gets on that. I don't know,

1252
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, it's I think personally, I think

1253
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 1: it that they are conscious and they're cognizant, but they

1254
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: probably just have a very different experience of the world

1255
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,480
Speaker 1: that's basically impossible to put into words because an octopus

1256
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 1: doesn't have words. They probably think in weird pictures and like, uh,

1257
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, they they expressed themselves through their skin can

1258
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: change color and texture. So when they're like we talked

1259
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 1: about in the interview, like when they're dreaming, their skin

1260
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: sort of fluctuates in color and texture as they're thinking

1261
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 1: about hunting or playing or whatever they're doing, and it's

1262
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: just it's such a different It's like, I mean, it's

1263
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: essentially like aliens. Like when we try to think about

1264
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: what alien life would be like, this is to me

1265
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 1: what it would be like. Did you see that movie

1266
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: about those huge balloons that hung in the sky and

1267
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 1: US Arrival? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and that was that

1268
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 1: was whoever that guy is Jeremy Renner and uh I

1269
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: think amy um, they like stare at octopus for the movie. Yeah.

1270
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 1: Someone someone was like, if we make yeah, so that's

1271
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: just I just thought of that. Yeah. No, exactly, no, exactly,

1272
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 1: no aliens, No, No, it does because I think that

1273
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 1: and like I think in the movie they were sort

1274
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: of trying to figure out how to communicate with them,

1275
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: and their method of language was so different from ours

1276
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: it was hard to recognize. But uh yeah, I mean

1277
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 1: that's to me, like I mean, obviously an alien might

1278
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 1: not look like an octopus, but the idea that you know,

1279
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: maybe because octopuses were so we're so far back in

1280
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: terms of when we were related to them, like seven

1281
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: million years ago and very simple like warm like creature

1282
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 1: was our common ancestor that you know, I imagine like

1283
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: maybe if there's a planet that can support life and

1284
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 1: can create at least a warm like creature. Maybe intelligent

1285
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: life is bound to develop given enough time, given the

1286
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 1: proper circumstances, the environment that's friendly towards evolving life. And

1287
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: and then that way, like maybe this kind of star

1288
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 1: trek world where you have these different races that develop

1289
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: and but they all kind of all think and dream

1290
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 1: and and can communicate. Maybe it'll all start in this

1291
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 1: marine biologists apartment. Maybe that's what he's doing. Well, maybe

1292
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: Heidi is learning more from us than we're learning from her,

1293
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: and she's she's learning how to take over the world. Yeah,

1294
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 1: he's gonna, Yeah, he might be in big trouble. Well,

1295
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 1: it's like that movie Planet of the Apes. Maybe it's

1296
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: a what was that ape's name? That the chimpanzee that

1297
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 1: like went insane and yeah, that sounds right. Of them,

1298
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 1: I don't know which one is the one, right, oh, Caesar,

1299
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: I think is that the main one? And it's like,

1300
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 1: you know, maybe these octopuses will Unfortunately they only live

1301
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: about a year long, so yeah, well some of them.

1302
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: The giant Pacific apartment, yeah, it can only live about

1303
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 1: a year. And then the giant Pacific octopus lives up

1304
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 1: to five years. So it's it's really sad because like,

1305
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: I would love to be friends with an octopus, but

1306
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,759
Speaker 1: that would be so bittersweet. It would be super boring too.

1307
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if have you ever held hands with

1308
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: an octopus? Yes, it seems like really no, you're lying now.

1309
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: I think it would be fun. And then they scored

1310
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,519
Speaker 1: it you with water. It's a good time, I guess,

1311
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 1: so until you come home and they got eight of

1312
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 1: your beers in their hands and then you're like, they

1313
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 1: can open jars. That's not too much of a stretch. Yeah,

1314
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, all right, I want I want to hang

1315
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 1: out with an octopus. Good. We've converted you just all

1316
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: part of our plan, I mean their plan. I mean

1317
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: nobody's playing. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

1318
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: Have you got anything to plug any where? People can

1319
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 1: find you on Twitter? Yeah you can. You can follow

1320
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: me on Twitter. Uh my handle is at the crofton

1321
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: show and I write poems on there just for fun,

1322
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:35,719
Speaker 1: like pretty much really dumb poems about animals, and actually

1323
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 1: wrote I wrote one about an octopus. Yeah, just I

1324
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:42,599
Speaker 1: think it was. Octopus is the name of the poem,

1325
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: and it's a Uh, you've got eight arms and inc

1326
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 1: write a book. I think that was what the poem was.

1327
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: So you can follow me, Yeah, you can follow me

1328
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: on at the Crofton Show and and you can hear

1329
01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: about all my stuff and then also Instagram Chris Underscore

1330
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: Crofton and um, I talked endlessly about cold brew on

1331
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: there because whatever, I used to be an alcoholic and

1332
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:14,879
Speaker 1: now but now my now I'm my coffee holic. So

1333
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 1: um and I have a record, a music record that

1334
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 1: you can listen to on Spotify or anything title I

1335
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 1: don't know, however, you listen to music. It's called Hello,

1336
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: It's me and it's a dead serious record that got

1337
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: reviewed by NPR and Pitchfork and uh and it's uh,

1338
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: it's like soft rock. That's all about it's all about

1339
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 1: for the purposes of this podcast, it's all about octopuses. Yes,

1340
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 1: please please make an album a soft rock about octopuses. Well,

1341
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 1: and they are soft bodied animals, so I mean it's

1342
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 1: technically about my ex girlfriend, but you could what's your

1343
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend an octopus? For the yes? All right? And

1344
01:18:56,120 --> 01:19:00,759
Speaker 1: you can find us on the internet Creature Feature dot com,

1345
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:04,639
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Creature Feature Pod, on Twitter at Creature

1346
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 1: Feet Pod. F a T, not f et. It's a

1347
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 1: very different Potter account. Um. You can find me at

1348
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: Katie Golden and of course at pro bird Rites where

1349
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 1: I advanced the rights of birds. Thanks so much for listening.

1350
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 1: You can join us next Wednesday and keep sending in

1351
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: those Chevrotaine pictures. Would you like some Chevartaine pictures, Chris?

1352
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 1: Send Chris some Dick Dick pick picks. Don't worry, those

1353
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 1: are also tiny deer called Dick Dix and some Chevertaine.

1354
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 1: Get him on the Chevertine trains. You'll find out what

1355
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: we mean. Okay, Well, thank you for having me on

1356
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: the show. It's been super fun. Thank you so much

1357
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: for joining us, and thanks to the Space Classics for

1358
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:46,600
Speaker 1: their excellent song Exo Lumina. Creature features a production of

1359
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from

1360
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1361
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.