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Speaker 1: Now the former chancellor and the former chair of the

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Speaker 1: Conservative Party, Nadeem Zahawi. He has served as minister under

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Speaker 1: Theresa May, Bois Johnson Listros and Rishie Sunak, who was

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Speaker 1: in charge of the COVID nineteen vaccination program if you remember,

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Speaker 1: but sacked as chair of the Conservative Party over his

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Speaker 1: tax affairs. He is now patron of the Adam Smith

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Speaker 1: Institute and he's giving a keynote speech on artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 1: And I'm delighted to say that Nadim Zahrw joins us

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Speaker 1: now in studio. Lovely to see you. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us on Bloomberg TV and radio. So

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Speaker 1: you're here to talk about AI and we'll get on

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Speaker 1: to that in just a minute. Richie Sunac wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about AI too on Monday, but instead he was

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Speaker 1: dragged into Conservative Party drama again. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: the in fighting is damaging to the party's electoral hopes?

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Speaker 2: Good morning, of course. Look, it would be naive to

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Speaker 2: say that having internal fighting and problems with the Consider

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Speaker 2: Party gives us an advantage in electoral sense, and we

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Speaker 2: need to put this behind us, in my view and

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Speaker 2: focus as we did during the pandemic on vaccination program.

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Speaker 2: I think Richie's five promises to have inflation, to grow

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Speaker 2: the economy, cut the debt and of course deal with

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Speaker 2: the NHS backlog and stop the boats is what will

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Speaker 2: earn us the right to be heard again. And once

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Speaker 2: we've delivered that, So if you have inflation this year,

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Speaker 2: people will go actually, you know, maybe we could give

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Speaker 2: this man a second chance. Let's listen to what he's

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Speaker 2: got to say in twenty twenty four and his chancellor

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Speaker 2: and they can then hopefully return to a tax cutting

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Speaker 2: agenda which would then focus the mind because when you

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Speaker 2: look at what k Star is saying, just the policy

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Speaker 2: on gas exploration being outlawed by the Labor Party in

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Speaker 2: Scotland will impact something like two hundred thousand jobs. So

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Speaker 2: I think when people begin to shine the light on

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Speaker 2: some of what the opposition are saying, Rishi Will I

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Speaker 2: think benefits from that.

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Speaker 3: But putting the spotlight on the Conservatives again, you know

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Speaker 3: both Johnson and Sunak well, who is telling the truth

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Speaker 3: about this House of Lord's Appointment drama?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I haven't focused on that, you will forgive me,

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Speaker 2: because I've been focusing on the work at the Adam

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Speaker 2: Smith Institute and today's collaboration with you with Bloomberg. We've

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Speaker 2: got the Minister for AI from the United Arab Emirates.

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Speaker 2: This guy was appointed in twenty seventeen. By the way,

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Speaker 2: he was ridiculed, as was the position at the time,

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Speaker 2: as some sort of gimmick. But he's got a lot

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Speaker 2: to say today on growth, on regulation, and on how

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Speaker 2: we use AI globally. So I've been focused on that.

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Speaker 2: That tittle tattle, that political drama is interesting. I had

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Speaker 2: it when I was chanting to think checker. Of course,

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Speaker 2: you'll remember, because I took over when Rishi resigned, I

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Speaker 2: had to deliver the Mansion House speech and I did that,

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Speaker 2: and I announced the next morning that we will deliver

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Speaker 2: the financial services and markets which your listeners are obviously

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Speaker 2: interested in. Now end of this month that bill will

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Speaker 2: become the law. It'll make the city, this place here

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Speaker 2: the most competitive place in the world to come and

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Speaker 2: you know, take a company public or invest. So ultimately,

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Speaker 2: what your listeners want to hear is what's the government

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Speaker 2: delivering rather than of the political machinations of the.

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Speaker 1: Conservative partm most substantive points we listen to Iss and

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Speaker 1: to Kirstarma deliver their talks on AI at London Tech.

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Speaker 1: Is the UK really doing enough? Firstly that the proposition

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Speaker 1: on AI seems quite wishy washy. We still don't really

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Speaker 1: know what AI is actually going to deliver, and actually

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Speaker 1: the Labor and Conservative offering seems remarkably similar to me

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Speaker 1: to my ears. Is the UK really doing enough to

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Speaker 1: become a tech have I mean also the Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: is significantly watered down even the pitch as for London

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Speaker 1: as being the kind of global tech leader. Are we

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Speaker 1: doing enough? So?

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Speaker 2: I think where we do lead the world is in

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Speaker 2: two areas. If you look at the work at Imperial

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Speaker 2: in Cambriany, but not just Oxford, Cambridge Imperial in Birmingham University,

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Speaker 2: there's some excellent research and development into AI, and we

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Speaker 2: are a world leader recognized by the rest of the

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Speaker 2: world as being a world leader on this. We're also

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Speaker 2: world leader because we've got people like Dennis Hassabis and

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Speaker 2: deep Mind here in the UK, and others are now

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Speaker 2: announcing that they will also be in the UK. That's good.

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Speaker 2: Where I think there is a gap is between research

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Speaker 2: at university and then transforming that into what I would

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Speaker 2: describe as applied AII E Commercial businesses that are profitable

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Speaker 2: and are employing thousands, hundreds of thousand people in profit

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Speaker 2: making businesses.

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Speaker 1: That's the gap though, of business. Sorry to interrupt her

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Speaker 1: little time, so once get to all the questions. This

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Speaker 1: is also the easy bit of business though right now,

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Speaker 1: isn't it? It's the shiny bit. Martha Lane Fox, who's

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Speaker 1: the president of the British Chambers of Commerce, said to me,

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Speaker 1: what about all the other businesses? Will let them length

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Speaker 1: and breadth of the country. She's saying, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: great text, getting the right message, but the government needs

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Speaker 1: to have a far broader message to more sectors of

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Speaker 1: business and more focus on trade.

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Speaker 2: Well, there is a big focus on trade and the

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Speaker 2: Trade Minister Kemi Badnock has just been on a tour

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Speaker 2: of the Middle East and I know that region. Well,

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Speaker 2: I've had great feedback actually from the region. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we're not marking our own homework as a team saying,

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Speaker 2: you know that that visit was incredibly you know, positive,

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Speaker 2: and we'll deliver real world outcost for the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 2: Let me give you an example, I think again, because

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Speaker 2: we've got the UAE here today with Bloomberg, with Minister Olama,

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Speaker 2: the UA Committee. I think about ten billion of investment

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Speaker 2: in the UK in you know, renewable infrastructure in the

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Speaker 2: next five years. They've delivered that early, and there's more

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Speaker 2: to do. Why have they delivered early because we've got

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Speaker 2: the potential and the opportunities for that investment to take place.

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Speaker 2: That's a good thing. That doesn't take away from the

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Speaker 2: fact that we have to always challenge ourselves to do

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Speaker 2: better for the whole economy. Yes, we are the ninth

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Speaker 2: largest manufacturer in the world, but manufacturing, if you look

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Speaker 2: at the numbers that came out today, is lagging behind

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Speaker 2: the service sector, which we are obviously a behemothin.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, so to recover manufacturing, to grow manufacturing. Archie Norman,

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Speaker 3: the m and S Chair of speaking to Caroline, he

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Speaker 3: says that the Tories can't even bear to utter the

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Speaker 3: words industrial strategy, but the US and Europe are clear

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Speaker 3: on theirs. It's a common criticism. I think I heard

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Speaker 3: it from Catherine Mann from the Bank of England as well,

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Speaker 3: that the UK needs a long term plan. Where is

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Speaker 3: our five to ten year plan for the economy.

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Speaker 2: We have one and I'm a great fan and I

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Speaker 2: work very closely with Andy Haldane who worked on the

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Speaker 2: Bays Department's strategy, the industrial strategy at the time, which

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Speaker 2: was basically sector and space, so you know geographies of

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Speaker 2: the country with particular sectors where we would you know,

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Speaker 2: effectually have a plan with that sector. So we did

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Speaker 2: the strategy with the life sciences sector. Learn from that

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Speaker 2: strategy because that's working in credibly well, and then scale

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Speaker 2: it to other sectors of the economy so we have

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Speaker 2: that plan. That's what Jeremy Hunt is talking about when

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Speaker 2: he focuses on the sectors that he talks about, including

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Speaker 2: becoming the sort of you know, the Silicon Valley of

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Speaker 2: Europe in the future. You're beginning to see that work

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Speaker 2: come through. Yes, of course there's more to do, no

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Speaker 2: doubt in my mind, there's much more that we can do,

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Speaker 2: but I think that is already in place.

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Speaker 3: But then, as a form of chancellor, why do you

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Speaker 3: think it is that every single day, week after week,

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Speaker 3: you've got business leaders criticizing Britain for being adrift, stillantis dison, revolute,

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Speaker 3: one after the other.

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Speaker 2: And we've got to learn from We've got to listen

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Speaker 2: to them. And you know, I when I was education sectory,

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Speaker 2: I went to see James Dyson. One of his gripes

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Speaker 2: was he's got the brilliant Dison Institute producing brilliant scientists,

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Speaker 2: but he can't make it a dice in university because

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Speaker 2: he's been told it to take seven years before he

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Speaker 2: gets the regulatory approval. I with a colleagues in government

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Speaker 2: initiated that the Regulators for Growth round Table to get

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Speaker 2: all the regulators together to make sure that we get

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Speaker 2: them to think about growth. Now. The Financial Service and

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Speaker 2: Market's Bill will make the financial regulators now have a

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Speaker 2: target for growth as well as of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: doing good regulation and safety of the financial markets. They

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Speaker 2: have a target for growth. I'd like to see that

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Speaker 2: across all regulators should have a target for growth of

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Speaker 2: the economy. That's how you begin to deal with the

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Speaker 2: problems of you know, whether it's revolute or.

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Speaker 1: I think the issue is about whether we are interventionist

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Speaker 1: enough in the right way. There is there has been

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Speaker 1: a c shift right France, the United States, Europe. They

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Speaker 1: have these huge, huge strategies for intervention for massive dollars

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Speaker 1: in the US. And it's not for the for the

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Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act for example, on green celsities, but there's

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Speaker 1: more than just that. It is real interventionist government direction

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Speaker 1: for business and the UK sort of missing that well.

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Speaker 3: Labor wants to do it on purpose, the TORI seemed

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Speaker 3: to be doing it by accident.

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Speaker 2: No, I would push back on that. I would say

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Speaker 2: there's a very clear strategy developed, evidence led and the

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Speaker 2: hand holding did an incredible job on that. That's what

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Speaker 2: we're delivering against effect, whatever you call it, whether how

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Speaker 2: you brand it, I'm not really that interested in. I

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Speaker 2: want to see outcomes because that's you know, if we

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Speaker 2: focus on outcomes. Where I say to my team in

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Speaker 2: vaccine is I don't care how many vaccines we've got

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Speaker 2: in the warehouse, is how many were putting people's arms

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Speaker 2: and protected them and saved their lives. It's the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Now you look at what we're doing, hopefully with JLR

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Speaker 2: and the you know, investment into battery manufacturing in the UK,

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Speaker 2: that is you know, that's that is interventional and that's

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Speaker 2: interest in a sector that we want to continue to grow,

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Speaker 2: especially in the West Midlands in my part of the world.

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Speaker 2: Now that battery factory may not be in the West

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Speaker 2: Midlands at the moment, but as it grows, there will

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Speaker 2: be more demand, there will more need for more battery

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Speaker 2: manufacturing in the United Kingdom. That's the right thing to do. Now.

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Speaker 2: Do I think we're they, No, of course not. There's

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Speaker 2: so much more to do. There are so many parts

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Speaker 2: of the economy that we need to continue to invest

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Speaker 2: in nuclear. You know, we've got to do more on

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Speaker 2: the small modular reactors, the SMRs. There's a real opportunity

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Speaker 2: for us on that, and then on the amrs, the

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Speaker 2: sort of the new generation of reactors. That's also important.

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Speaker 2: There's more to do to make sure that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we continue to be world leaders in financial services. That's

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Speaker 2: why the Financial Service and Markets Bill is so important,

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Speaker 2: and when it becomes law you will see that impact

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Speaker 2: that it will have that I'm certain you will begin

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Speaker 2: to talk about on your show and other shows in Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose it's difficult when we've had such a

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Speaker 1: rotation of business in the last couple of years that

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Speaker 1: actually delivering is hard to do. On the inheritance tax subject,

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Speaker 1: though you've made some comments around it, very interesting. We're

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Speaker 1: about to see we are seeing in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the biggest transfer in history in terms of wealth from

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Speaker 1: one generation to the next. One baby beamers to their children, grandchildren.

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Speaker 1: You want to ditch inheritance tax I suppose my question

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Speaker 1: why abolish it?

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Speaker 2: It's a inefficient and complex thats that leads to, in

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Speaker 2: my view, perverse decisions outcomes. So when people begin to

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Speaker 2: think of leaving their assets behind, they begin to make

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Speaker 2: decisions on those assets, including selling up and just spending

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Speaker 2: the money because so much of it goes to the

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Speaker 2: tax man. I think you would hopefully create better investment decisions,

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Speaker 2: and of course morally it's the right thing to do,

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Speaker 2: because people have paid their tax on that money that

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Speaker 2: then they have bought home with. I think it does

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Speaker 2: because I think, you know, being able to have the

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Speaker 2: option to leave your hard earned money that's already been

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Speaker 2: taxed to your children or grandchildren is one that is

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Speaker 2: in my view, the right thing to do. But the

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Speaker 2: upside as well is that I think it'll mean more

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Speaker 2: investment in the United Kingdom because those decisions that people

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Speaker 2: make as to how they manage their inheritance, you'll be

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Speaker 2: able to move, you know, move them out of the way,

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Speaker 2: and all they think about then is how they expand

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Speaker 2: their investments. You know, some small medium sized businesses that

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Speaker 2: would have remained in family assets would have been have

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Speaker 2: to be sold to pay for the inheritance tax at

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Speaker 2: the moment, plus the complexity of the code is a minefield.

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Speaker 2: And I think my job at the Adam Smith Institute

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Speaker 2: is to have, you know, a vibrant ideas machine, and

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Speaker 2: that is what we pride ourselves in terms of a

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Speaker 2: think tank. It's an independent think tank. We will have

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Speaker 2: people from the other side of the political divide writing

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Speaker 2: for us and doing work for us. But it's an

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Speaker 2: exciting proposition to be part of.

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Speaker 3: Finally, you're upholster by trade. Can Rishi see not close

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Speaker 3: the gap on kirst Armor, Yes you.

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Speaker 2: Can, And I tell you for why. If you look

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Speaker 2: at the number of people saying don't know at the moment,

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Speaker 2: it is an unprecedented level. Last time I looked at

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Speaker 2: it was over twenty percent of people still saying they

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Speaker 2: don't know which way they're get to vote, which means

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Speaker 2: they're sitting on their hands. They're pretty upset with us

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Speaker 2: because of twenty twenty two and of course the internal

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Speaker 2: machinations of the Conservative Party. But I think if Rishi

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Speaker 2: delivers those five promises to have inflation, grow the economy,

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Speaker 2: cut the debt and of course, deal with the NHS

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Speaker 2: and stop the boats that I think he would have heard,

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Speaker 2: earned the right to be heard. And if twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four means a really strong tax cutting agenda, then there

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Speaker 2: will be a very clear divide for people as to

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Speaker 2: whether they vote for Kis Starmer, who's going to destroy

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Speaker 2: jobs in Scotland. Two hundred thousand jobs are at risk

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Speaker 2: because of the policy or no exploration on gas in

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Speaker 2: scott Gas is going to have to be part of

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Speaker 2: the portfolio mix to get us to twenty fifty. And

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Speaker 2: that sort of cop twenty six promise we made, but

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Speaker 2: Kis Starmer and is because I suspect it's probably been

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Speaker 2: captured by a dogmatic agenda that we need to sort

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Speaker 2: of make ourselves poorer to be able to meet the

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Speaker 2: twenty fifty targets. Will be making a very bad mistake,

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Speaker 2: and I think he'll trip up. As you know, people

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Speaker 2: begin like yourselves, to focus on labor policy, they will

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Speaker 2: trip up on this stuff and people will see Rishie

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Speaker 2: as someone who really does deliver.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Nadim Zahavi, thank you so much for your time

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Speaker 1: here on Bloomberg Radio. Very good to have you in studio.

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Speaker 1: The former chance and former chair of the Conservative Party,