1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Democracy is messy sometimes, but it is our system, this 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: conference that you see. This House Republican majority is united. 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: After twenty two days of complete turmoil in the US 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: House of Representatives, with Republicans unable to find a candidate 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: they could agree on to replace the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: on Wednesday, Republicans finally settled on someone they could accept, 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 2: and its representative, Mike Johnson of Louisiana. He's a staunch 8 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: ally of Donald Trump, and he was a leader in 9 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 2: pushing to overturn the results of the twenty twenty presidential election. 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: His selection as Speaker reinforces the right word shift of 11 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: the Republican led House, and now Johnson has to act 12 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,959 Speaker 2: quickly to try to get his splintered party to agree 13 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: to a spending package to avoid a government shutdown, and 14 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: to decide on funding for Ukraine in Israel. I'm wes 15 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: Kasova today on the Big Take. Are intrepid Congress editor 16 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: Meghan Scully is here short on sleep, but still sharp 17 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: of mind to tell us where things go from here. Meghan, 18 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, even here in Washington 19 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: yesterday afternoon, we're saying Mike who, And in fact I actually, 20 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 2: in preparation for this interview, just googled him and when 21 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: I hit them in the search box, two results popped off. 22 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: The verse was major League Baseball, which you'd expect, and 23 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: the second was Mike Johnson. 24 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 3: So tell us about Mike Johnson. 25 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 4: I think we were all googling him yesterday, even those 26 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: of us who cover Congress for a living. You know, 27 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 4: he has one of those very generic names, and it 28 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 4: was like, which one is that he was a very 29 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 4: sort of junior member of the House leadership team. But 30 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 4: as the House Republicans sort of went through speaker nominee 31 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 4: after speaker nominee after speaker nominee, you know, he ultimately 32 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 4: was the last man standing, and he ended up getting 33 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 4: two hundred and twenty votes on Wednesday on the first round. 34 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 4: If you remember back in January, it took former Speaker 35 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 4: Kevin McCarthy fifteen rounds and four or five very painful 36 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 4: days to finally claim the speakership. 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: And the other candidates who came forward after he was 38 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: unceremoniously shown the door also couldn't get it through, and 39 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: Representative Jim Jordan went three rounds trying to get votes, 40 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: and on every round he lost ground with his fellow Republicans. 41 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, he had like an incredibly shrinking fan base. 42 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 4: And then the two other nominees, Steve Scalise and Tom Emmer, 43 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 4: never even made it to the floor for a vote. 44 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 4: They gave up before they even got there. And you know, 45 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 4: we're now measuring time in Washington as Tom Emmers. How 46 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 4: many Tom Emers can you last? It's one Emer is 47 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 4: about four hours and fifteen minutes. 48 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: So what is it about Mike Johnson that let him 49 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: get the votes where other Republicans couldn't. 50 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 4: I think he was unknown outside of Washington, so he 51 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 4: wasn't somebody who you know back home. Voters didn't have 52 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 4: a sense one way or another about him. Either you 53 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 4: love Jim Jordan or you hate Jim Jordan, but you 54 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 4: sure know who Jim Jordan is, right, We all had 55 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 4: to google who Mike Johnson was, so he didn't come 56 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 4: with all the baggage that some of these other candidates 57 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 4: came with. But really, I think the thing that helped 58 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 4: him the most was sheer exhaustion and frustration of the 59 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 4: House Republican caucus. They just wanted to get this over with. 60 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: So Johnson, even though he's not well known outside Washington, 61 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: is very well known among Republicans. And we mentioned Jim 62 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: Jordan before, he was unacceptable to Republicans, and yet Johnson's 63 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: views on many of the issues are very much in 64 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: line with the Jim Jordan right wing of the party. 65 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: Is that right? 66 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 4: It is? So it's interesting. The right wing of the 67 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 4: Republican Party sort of separates itself into these two different caucuses, 68 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 4: the Republican Study Group and the House Freedom Caucus. The 69 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 4: House Freedom Caucus is sort of what grew out of 70 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 4: the Republican Study Group, and Jim Jordan was one of 71 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 4: the founders of the Freedom Caucus. They're sort of the 72 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 4: more bomb thrower types of the party, the ones who 73 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: get on x and other social media and really you know, 74 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 4: vent their frustrations. Many of them were the one among 75 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 4: those who ousted Kevin McCarthy in the first place. So 76 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 4: that's the House Freedom Caucus. Mike Johnson is the former 77 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 4: chair men of the Republican Study Group, which is kind 78 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 4: of the more sedate conservatives. You know, make no mistake 79 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 4: about it, Mike Johnson is incredibly conservative economically, he believes 80 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: in very small government, and also culturally, he is very 81 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 4: much against abortion rights. He argued in two thousand and four. 82 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 4: As an attorney, he argued against same sex marriages, So 83 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 4: there is not a lot of moderate that runs through him. 84 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: Also, one important thing is that Johnson was one of 85 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: the leaders of the effort to question the results of 86 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty election in order to keep Donald Trump. 87 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 3: In office after he lost to Joe Biden. 88 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 4: He helped write some of the legal arguments for the 89 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 4: case in Texas that would have overturned some of these outcomes. 90 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 5: He was the one who actually drafted the House Republican 91 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 5: legal brief signed by one hundred and twenty six Republicans 92 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 5: that supported the Texas lawsuit to try and overturn the 93 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 5: electoral results of four states. Not only did he ask 94 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 5: members to play a role in it, he actually is 95 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 5: the name on the amicus brief that was submitted. 96 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 4: And he was one of many Republicans who voted not 97 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 4: to certify the twenty twenty election results. 98 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: And that's the same as say Jim Jordan. So is 99 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: it the case that it wasn't so much that Republicans 100 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: didn't accept Jim Jordan's views, it was that they didn't 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: like Jordan himself. 102 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 4: I think that was a big part of it. I 103 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 4: think Jordan also was toxic in areas like the Hudson 104 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 4: Valley in southern California, these very purple districts, districts that 105 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 4: Biden actually carried in twenty twenty and Republican House members 106 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 4: won in twenty twenty two. So Jordan, remember, as chairman 107 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 4: of the House Judiciary Committee, is one of the lawmakers 108 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 4: leading the impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden, and that 109 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 4: doesn't fly so well in these more Biden friendly districts. 110 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 4: So you know, Jordan brought that baggage into this. He's 111 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 4: also just known as being extremely close to former President 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 4: Trump and just being very much an antagonistic member of 113 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 4: the House Conference. 114 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: And Johnson too is a very strong supporter of Trump 115 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: and in fact got his strong endorsement as speaker. Yes, 116 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: so tell us a little bit more about Johnson himself. 117 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: How long has he been in Congress and what's he 118 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: known for as a legislator. 119 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: Johnson is just fifty one years old, which in a 120 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 4: Congress where most lawmakers are in their sixties, seventies, and 121 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 4: even eighties, he is quite young in this bunch. He's 122 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: also from Louisiana, he comes across as incredibly folksy. One 123 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 4: of our reporters likens listening to him to listening to 124 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 4: a Republican Jimmy Carter. He's very affable and is soft 125 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 4: spoken and very eloquent in his speech. He's Christian and 126 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 4: deeply religious, and his beliefs have been an undercurrent throughout 127 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 4: his political career. He's very opposed to abortion rights. He's 128 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 4: opposed to same sex marriages. He has spoken personally about 129 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: the abortion issue, saying that he himself was the product 130 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 4: of an unplanned pregnancy. He was elected in twenty sixteen, 131 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: the same year that Trump was elected president, and has 132 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 4: been in the House ever since. He is a member 133 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 4: of the House Judiciary Committee, so he's on Jordan's committee, 134 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: but he'sn't known for being quite as as I said, 135 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 4: antagonistic as Jordan and some others on the panel. He 136 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 4: also is on the House Armed Services Committee. He has 137 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 4: significant military interests in his district, and he's very much 138 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 4: a hawk, which sets him apart from some of the 139 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 4: fierce ultra conservatives who have really pushed for even cutting 140 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 4: defense spending. He's a very strong believer in small government. 141 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 4: He's actually even in a local radio interview called government 142 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 4: a monster that should be starved, which is an interesting 143 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 4: position to have considering he's going to be the one 144 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 4: negotiating government spending. Remember, we have a November seventeenth deadline 145 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 4: when federal government spending will run out without some sort 146 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 4: of an agreement with Democrats to keep the doors open. 147 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: And he's only in his fourth term, elected in twenty sixteen. 148 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: Usually speakers have much more experience than that. 149 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 4: Yes, he is definitely the most inexperienced speaker in generations. 150 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 4: I've seen some estimates going back one hundred and forty years. 151 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 4: But he also is very telligenic and comes across well 152 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 4: on TV. And among the many things that we heard, 153 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 4: you know, working in his favor when House Republicans were 154 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 4: meeting behind closed doors earlier this week, was that he 155 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 4: could really get out, get on TV and sell the 156 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 4: Republican message in ways that some of these other Republicans 157 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 4: who had run and who had been in Congress for 158 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 4: a much longer period of time could not. 159 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 2: After the break, can Mike Johnson actually lead this fractie 160 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 2: Republican caucus? Megan, you mentioned earlier that Republicans have another 161 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 2: deadline facing them to keep the government open, and now 162 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: that Mike Johnson has the Speaker's gabble, he's going to 163 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: have to try to get Republicans to agree in a 164 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 2: way we've seen they simply haven't been able to do. 165 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 166 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 4: So Johnson is sort of in an unusual position here 167 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 4: where he's walking into these negotiations that are going to 168 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 4: involve finding an agreement within the Republican conference. But then 169 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 4: the House does not have the last stand spending, so 170 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 4: he's going to have to negotiate with the Democratic controlled 171 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 4: Senate and with the White House. So Johnson, going back 172 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: four weeks ago, voted against the temporary starf gap spending 173 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 4: bill that kept the government open. 174 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 6: And although this bill originated in the republic controlled House, 175 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 6: it was actually bought to the floor by Speaking McCarthy 176 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 6: and in the end supported by more Democrats than it 177 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 6: was Republicans. 178 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 7: Today wasn't the choice we wanted to have. We tried 179 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 7: to pass the most conservative stop gap measure possible. We 180 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 7: had members from all sides of the aisle work on it, 181 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 7: we put it on the floor, but unfortunately we didn't 182 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 7: have two hundred and eighteen Republicans that would vote for that. 183 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 4: This was the deal that McCarthy orchestrated with Democrats to 184 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 4: keep the government open, and that really served as the 185 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 4: last straw for hardliners who had been opposed to McCarthy 186 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 4: since his election back in January, and they had had 187 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 4: it with him. And then by October third, two days 188 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 4: after the start of the new fiscal year, McCarthy was 189 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,479 Speaker 4: out of a job as Speaker and out of the office. 190 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 4: He's still in the House. Now we have Mike Johnson 191 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 4: as Speaker. Johnson voted against that short term spending bill. 192 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 4: At the time, he was just a low ranking member 193 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 4: in leadership. He didn't carry this weight of responsibility that 194 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 4: he does now as Speaker. So he's bringing to this 195 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 4: job this voting record that was very much in line 196 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 4: with conservatives in the party. But now he is this 197 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 4: responsibility to try to come up with something that could 198 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 4: pass both chambers of Congress and make it to President 199 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 4: Biden's desk for signature, otherwise the government's going to shut down. 200 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 2: And while he was trying to rally support for his 201 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: bid to be speaker, he gave a hint of where 202 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: he now stands on that issue. 203 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, So on Monday, he circulated this memo to House Republicans, 204 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 4: and in the memo he talked about being supportive of 205 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 4: a continuing resolution that's what we call these stopgap temporary 206 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 4: spending bills that would run until either January or April. 207 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 4: What was done about this is that many ultra conservatives, 208 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 4: particularly the eight who voted Kevin McCarthy out of office, 209 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: did so because they are adamantly opposed to these crs 210 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 4: as we call them, because it holds government spending at 211 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 4: prior year levels, and what they want to do is 212 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 4: cut government spending from prior year levels. So they don't 213 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 4: want to be spending any more in the current fiscal 214 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: year than they absolutely have to. So the fact that 215 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 4: he floated this plan, it was very vague, It did 216 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 4: not get into detailed specifics on items like Ukraine and 217 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 4: Israel funding, but it did lay this marker down that 218 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 4: he was now pro continuing resolution and he still got elected, 219 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 4: which is pretty surprising considering where we were just a 220 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 4: few weeks ago. 221 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: And so why are these very hard right members who 222 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 2: were furious at McCarthy for doing this accepting Johnson who 223 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 2: says he'll do the same thing. 224 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 4: I think there's a couple of things going on here. 225 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 4: One I think that these hardliners never trusted McCarthy in 226 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 4: the first place. They balked at his election in January. 227 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: They were the ones who drove the fifteen rounds of 228 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 4: painful voting that we all remember. And also they were 229 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 4: furious with McCarthy for doing a deal with Joe Biden 230 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 4: in May to avert a debt default. And with that 231 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 4: came some strings in terms of government spending and cuts 232 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 4: to government spending, but it went nowhere near as deep 233 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 4: as these ultra conservatives wanted to go. They are hoping, 234 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 4: in terms of looking at where Mike Johnson is on 235 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: the political spectrum, that he's more like them than Kevin 236 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 4: McCarthy was, so he they feel, is going to fight 237 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 4: harder for these cuts. They might be more tolerant of 238 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 4: what Mike Johnson comes back with in terms of a 239 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 4: deal with the White House than they ever were with 240 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 4: what Kevin McCarthy came back with. 241 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: And then the other big question on the table is 242 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: foreign policy and funding for Ukraine and also for Israel, 243 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: and funding for Ukraine has been very unpopular among these 244 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: right wing members, and. 245 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 4: Even Johnson himself has been not particularly supportive of continuing 246 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 4: funding to Ukraine. There's going to have to be some 247 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 4: kind of give here though, because there is no way 248 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 4: that the White House is going to move forward, and 249 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 4: the Senate Democrats or and even Senate Republicans, senators like 250 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 4: Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, are very supportive of 251 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 4: continuing funding to Ukraine. So Johnson's going to have to 252 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 4: give here somewhere, and where we might see that happening 253 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 4: is perhaps, you know, in the total size of the 254 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 4: package and also in terms of oversight of where this 255 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 4: money is going and accountability in terms of how Ukraine 256 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 4: is spending it. I'm guessing that that will be sort 257 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 4: of the bone that he throws to the hard right, 258 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 4: and so of where we go from there. In terms 259 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 4: of Israel, there's wide bipartisan support for funding one of 260 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 4: our staunchest allies. 261 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: Turmoil and violence of rock to Middle East and Eastern Europe. 262 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: We all know what intentions continue to build in the 263 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: Indo Pacific. The country demands strong leadership of this body 264 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: and we must not waiver. Are our nation's greatest ally 265 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: in the Middle East is under attack. The first bill 266 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: that I'm going to bring to this floor in just 267 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: a little while we'll be in support of our dear 268 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: friend Israel, and we're overdue and getting that done. 269 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: When we come back. How long can Mike Johnson last 270 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: is speaker. 271 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 3: Began? 272 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that one of the things that did 273 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: in Kevin McCarthy was this deal to keep the government open, 274 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: which the hard right did not like and therefore used 275 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: to get rid of him. And they were able to 276 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 2: do this because of a rule that allows just a 277 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 2: few members to essentially call the speakership into question. Does 278 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: Mike Johnson have the same sword hanging over his own head? 279 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 4: He does, and it's actually just one member, and in 280 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 4: this case it was Matt Gates from Florida, who is 281 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 4: a very very much a hardliner and very much in 282 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 4: the camp of former President Donald Trump. The way the 283 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 4: rule works, and this was negotiated actually by Kevin McCarthy 284 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 4: during his lengthy election to be House Speaker, and this 285 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 4: was one of the concessions he made to hardliners was 286 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 4: that it would take only one of them to offer 287 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 4: a petition to overthrow the speaker, considering that Republicans hold 288 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 4: a narrow narrow majority of the House, and if Democrats 289 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 4: all all vote in unison against the speaker, Republicans cannot 290 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 4: lose more than four votes. So basically, the way I 291 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 4: keep describing it as is that the coalition to overthrow 292 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 4: a speaker could all fit into a Honda Civic. So 293 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 4: that's what you need. And Mike Johnson certainly is walking 294 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 4: into this job knowing that he could face the same 295 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 4: fate as his predecessor. However, he does come into the 296 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 4: job with right now there's a lot of feelings of 297 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 4: goodwill and relief on the Hill. You know, we saw 298 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 4: him after being nominated going to the microphones with half 299 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 4: the Republican conference behind him cheering him on and very happy, 300 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 4: very glad to have this behind them. And in the 301 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 4: past he has the support of people like Matt Gates 302 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 4: who never supported Kevin McCarthy, who may have begrudgingly voted 303 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 4: present to allow him to claim the speakership back in January, 304 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 4: or who continued to vote against him. But Mike Johnson 305 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 4: has sort of won the hearts and minds of that 306 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 4: camp for now. That doesn't mean that they're not going 307 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: to change their minds, or it also doesn't mean that 308 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 4: that he might not lose at some point. The moderates, 309 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 4: the Biden district Republicans who I talked about earlier. However, 310 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 4: they have been much less willing to really go against 311 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 4: Republican leaders and are just by nature more of a 312 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 4: go along, get along bunch. I think a lot of it, too, 313 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 4: stems from the fact that, aside from the exhaustion that 314 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 4: I cited earlier, is that Johnson comes across, whether you 315 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 4: agree with his very conservative views on society and on 316 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 4: the economy, on government spending, and the size and shape 317 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 4: of the government, he comes across as somebody who is 318 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 4: very likable, which was not the case with Kevin McCarthy. 319 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 4: Even Kevin McCarthy's supporters would sometimes bristle at his approach 320 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 4: or comments that he made in the hallways. He always 321 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 4: looked much more opportunistic. All politicians are opportunistic, you know, 322 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 4: to some degree. But I think that for many Republicans 323 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 4: who were perhaps on the fence with Mike Johnson, or 324 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 4: who like you and I were doing googling him, he 325 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 4: just comes across as a more earnest person, somebody, as 326 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 4: as one Republican said, is just good on TV. 327 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: Megan. 328 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 2: Being likable, as you say, will get you pretty far 329 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: in Washington. But these days it won't necessarily protect you 330 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: for long. You've been covering Congress for a long time. 331 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: Do you think Mike Johnson will last for years in 332 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: this job? 333 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 4: So I'm stopping making predictions right now. Because I thought 334 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 4: the Phillies were going to be in the World Series, 335 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 4: so I thought the government was going to shut down 336 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 4: on October first. So clearly my barometer is broken. I 337 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 4: will say that goodwill will get you pretty far. It'll 338 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 4: at least get him several months into this job and 339 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 4: through these initial hurdles over government spending, Ukraine funding and 340 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 4: aid for Israel. Remember, we have an election coming up, 341 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 4: so there's no guarantee that Republicans are going to hold 342 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 4: onto the House anyway, So we could be seeing a 343 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 4: speaker Hakem. Jeffries come January of twenty twenty five. So 344 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 4: this is a debate that gets us up to essentially 345 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 4: November twenty twenty four, to election day. I do think 346 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 4: that what we're going to see, given his level of experience, 347 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 4: is that the rest of the Republican leadership team is 348 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 4: going to be much more active here. Interestingly, his number two, 349 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 4: the House Majority Leader, is Steve Scalise, who is one 350 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 4: of the failed speaker nominees. It never even made it 351 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 4: to the floor, but is actually widely liked within the 352 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 4: Republican Caucus. He is also from Louisiana, so you have 353 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 4: this sort of home state relationship that is built in here, 354 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 4: and I think we're going to see Scalise really sort 355 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 4: of helping guide the agenda in the coming weeks and 356 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 4: months ahead. 357 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 3: Mean hope you can look forward to getting a little 358 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 3: bit of sleep now. 359 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here. Thanks thanks for listening 360 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 2: to us here at The Big Take. It's a daily 361 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 2: podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, 362 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, 363 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: and we'd love to hear from you. Email us questions 364 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 2: or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The 365 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 2: supervising producer of The Big Take is Vicky Vergalina. Our 366 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: senior producer is Catherine Fink, and they produced this episode. 367 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: Our original music was composed by Leo Sidron. I'm West Kasova. 368 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take.