1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: Welcome. You are now listening to the Professional Professional Hey, 2 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Professional home Girls is the kid of a name from 3 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: the PSD podcast, the only place where you would hear 4 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: interviews from black women an honestly on stories that will 5 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: enlightened and expand on taboo topics. Now, if you hear 6 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: someone that sounds familiar, mind the business that pays you child. 7 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: If you like the PhD podcast, please rate, review and 8 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Please five star reviews only. Hold 9 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Me Down, Don't Hold Me Up is now available on 10 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: the site as well as my book list, so please 11 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: make sure you visit the link in the show notes below. 12 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: You can connect with the kid on Instagram at the 13 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: Professional home Girl and at the PhD podcast. If you 14 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: are on Twitter, please follow me at the PhD podcast now. 15 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: If you are all caught up with episode, listen to 16 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: the bonus episodes by supporting the PSD podcast Patreon account. 17 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: To support, please visit www dot Patreon dot com. Forward 18 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: slash the PSD podcast now. Please keep in mind that 19 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: all of my guests are nonness, so listen again this 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: week's episode. So I'm super excited about this week's episode. 21 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: My guests will be sharing her journey on being a 22 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: black atheist. So to my guests, how are you feeling? 23 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: I am excited, glad to be here. Thank you so 24 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: much for having me. Yes, if we was keep kid 25 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: before we started job because she's oh d funny like hi, joh. 26 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I was saying earlier. 27 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: I just mainly like when I'm doing the videos making them, 28 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: I mainly feel like a dork and let's just buy 29 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: myself in my room and I'll be giggling to myself. 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: I never know how people will take it, so I 31 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. No, you're a man, kind of like 32 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: you should look into being a comedian. I don't know. 33 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: I wish I would that. Oh my god, we gotta 34 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: talking about a mom to man. I don't know. This 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: is a lot. It's a lot so before I began. 36 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: But those who have been living under a rock? What 37 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: is an atheist? That's a good question. I feel like 38 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: there's kind of depends on Okay, I'll just tell you 39 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: what I think of it as to antheist. So how 40 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: I when I use that label on myself, what I'm 41 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: generally saying is that I don't really operate from a 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: place of faith, so like I don't hold those beliefs, 43 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: I don't believe them, like I don't you know, incorporate 44 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: them into anything that I do in my day to 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: day life. So generally, what I think of it is 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: someone who's just without that specific faith in the supernatural 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: or in God's right. But there's also like a sliver 48 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: of that that there's some people who say, oh, atheists 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: means that you're telling us that there is no God. 50 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: So there's different you know, shades of it. So for me, 51 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: how I use it as mainly to saying I don't 52 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: really believe those things. I don't operate out of that 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: place of faith. But of course there's also people who 54 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: are gonna be like, oh, you're telling me there's no God, 55 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: which to me is not the definition that I that 56 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: I use, because there's two different types of atheists that 57 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: to explain before. Yeah, yeah, so like it, And it's 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: just you know, I always tell people that words like 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: human beings make up the words the worst don't make us. 60 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: So it's like it depends however you want to use it, 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: as how you're going to use it. So there's hard 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: atheists or atheism, which is yeah, people who are like 63 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: there is no God. You know that God is not real, 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: that's not true when they're like denying the claims that 65 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: of their being a god or supernatural, right, So that's 66 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: more hard atheism and then soft atheism. And some people 67 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: also kind of use the term agnostic too, but that's 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: kind of different. But you know, saft atheism is kind 69 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: of what I would describe myself as words. I'm not 70 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: saying that there is no God because I don't believe. 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: You can you can disprove a God. I'm just saying 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: that I don't currently believe in a God. So that's 73 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: more like saft atheism. So what are some other labels 74 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: that you people can use the side as an atheist? 75 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: Because I learned a new word agnostic agnostic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 76 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a lot, Like I had a hard 77 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: time try and saying agnosticism, like it's a lot. I 78 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: don't know what it's about that word that so sorry 79 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: to say, but yeah, agnostic, I started. I have no 80 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: idea where I even heard that word the very first time, 81 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: like it is such an interesting concept, but basically agnostic, 82 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: how I think generally how people use it is to 83 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: mean like, oh I just don't know, like I'm undecided, 84 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: I don't know what I want to believe, Like I'm 85 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: just kind of live in life and I'll see what happens, right, 86 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: So that's fine. I think that's just generally how you know, 87 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: people use a day to day UM. I even when 88 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: I started my channel, I didn't even know because I 89 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: started my channel right at the kind of the very 90 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: beginning of me even talking about being in this land 91 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: of nonbelief. So I was just kind of just excited 92 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: to talk about it. So I started going by being 93 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: that like I felt like I was just figuring things out, 94 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: Like I knew I wasn't really Christian anymore, and I 95 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: knew that I wanted to think about it some more. 96 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: So I was the label agnostic on on it, right, 97 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: And so to me that was just you know, I 98 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: was just using it to say like, oh, I don't 99 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: really know what's happening out here, like I just wanted to, 100 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: you know, figure things out. But I think to what 101 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: I what I came to learn like agnostic is more 102 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: so about the um like the knowledge side of things. 103 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: So like there's some things that you can know, like 104 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: you know what temperature this water freeze that I feel 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: like we can all come to consensus about what the 106 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: temperature that water freeze is. That right when you asked 107 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: the question of like is there a God, Like, how 108 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: do you even go about proving that? Like, to me, 109 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: I don't think it's possible with the current tools that 110 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: we have or even ever, Like, I don't think it's 111 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: possible to prove or disprove a god. So to me, 112 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: it's like I even the atheists who like put so 113 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: much energy in trying to disprove a god, I'm like, 114 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: you guys are wasting your time. I don't think that's 115 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: a worth while things to be doing, Like just leave 116 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: it alone. It's not gonna it's not gonna work. And 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: I don't think you can you can say there's no God. 118 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: So that's why I think the agnostic is you feel 119 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: like there's no way that you can, like you know 120 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: for sure, ever come to a consensus about what something is, 121 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: or to know for sure something then that I don't 122 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: have agnostics. I don't think we can ever know this. 123 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: But like you know, some people just generally use it 124 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: as like I don't really know what I believe. I'm 125 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: kind of like in the middle, which is which is 126 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: fine too, Like I don't ever tell people what they 127 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: should call themselves, what about some other terms? Because you 128 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: was on one of your videos, I was like, damn, 129 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: she really broke me down because I ain't even heard 130 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: of another ship before, I know, let me even try 131 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: to remember what even So I was a long time ago. 132 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: I was like doing, okay, So free freethinker, yeah, so 133 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: that's just someone who is not bound by like a dogma. 134 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: So if you just feel like, okay, I'm not gonna 135 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: let religion or predeterbined you know, set of beliefs lead 136 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: my life, then that's more like a free thinker, someone 137 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: who's just kind of like, I'm gonna live my life experience, 138 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm open to experiences, I'm open to kind of taking 139 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: what life would bring to me. Um. I think of 140 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: that as being more of a free thinker, and they 141 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: can lean towards being more atheists. But there's also free 142 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: thinkers who can also still be leading to be more theistic, 143 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: like because they might, you know, they might have experiences 144 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: that they personally feel led them to encounter some kind 145 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: of supernatural world or whatever it is, but it's from 146 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: their own experience and so just kind of being open 147 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: to what life has to bring to you is kind 148 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: of what I definitely think of when I think of 149 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: a free thinker. Um, this is something one that I 150 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: learned bright bright. Yeah, that's a good one. Let me 151 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: even try to remember what that one was so bright was. Um, 152 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: it's fairly a recent one. Um, something about the God 153 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: is not within them, but he wants to change the 154 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: terminology of because it is sound. I guess it sounds 155 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: too attractive to say there is no god, a godless 156 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: soul or something. Yeah, it's one of those ones where 157 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: people were like trying to find a more positive term 158 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: to label like the land of unbelief, you know, because 159 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: there's like skeptic um, they're secular, So I think brights 160 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: it just another one of those ones that people recently 161 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: came up with the kind described like, hey, we're nonbelievers, 162 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: but we want to make sure that people it's on 163 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: a negative connotation to it. And at one more because 164 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: I can do the research and y'all humanists humanists. Yeah, 165 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: so that's one that I really like. Um. I like 166 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: humanism because it means that you're putting like humanity first basically, 167 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: So I think when people think about atheism. A big 168 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: thing that people get hung up is like, oh, we're 169 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: what about morality, like you know, like how do you 170 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: determine morality and things like that. So we often say 171 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: that with atheism, like it's not like a moral code. 172 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: Like atheism can't give you a guide to how to 173 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: live your life. Is just to describe where you currently 174 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: are with your faith. You know, you believe or you 175 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: don't believe, right, So humanism is more so okay, it 176 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: gives you more of a like a set of beliefs 177 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: to believe in terms of so how should I live 178 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: my life? And so humanists generally value like, okay, the 179 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: human experience and like putting humanity first and working towards 180 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: those like all those pro social behaviors that people would 181 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: think about. And so you have people who are secular 182 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: humanists who say, hey, I'm I don't believe in you know, 183 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: God's a supernatural world, but I do believe in humanity 184 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: and working towards the common good of human beings. And 185 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: they also have people who are like religious humanists because 186 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: they also still believe those things and they're still humanists. 187 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: So I think when we say secular humanists, it's like 188 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: people who are like, I'm not attached to related structure, 189 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: supernatural structure, but I still value I want to do 190 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: positive things for humanity. Okay, listening out, you're gonna get 191 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: some information today. Yeah, you're really. Yeah. I wish I 192 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: was like, you're just like a quiz Like, oh my god, 193 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: what did I say? Like, because I let me? I 194 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: should have thought about that a little more. Yeah, but 195 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: you're like one thing, I um, I did my research 196 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: on you, like you like to learn and like go 197 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: down and read the host and stuff. I'm like, oh, 198 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: this is gonna be a good interview. Yeah, yeah, I definitely. 199 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: I think it might be from insomnia or just like 200 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: you know, I I'll be sleeping up some nights and 201 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: just not be able to sleep, and so I like 202 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: to google things and look at p D and I 203 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: do like learning this stuff a lot. Yeah, I can 204 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: tell M. So, what are the misconceptions of being an atheist? Yeah? 205 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: That's a that's a really good question. I feel like 206 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: it's the one that for me is the biggest one 207 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: right now that I'm trying to navigate. Is that the 208 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: idea that somehow like I don't value social things, like 209 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: if you're atheist, that you're you know, what's stopping you 210 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: from murdering people are hurting people are like, you know, 211 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: why would you do good things? Like if you don't 212 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: believe in a god or something like that that will 213 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: hold you accountable, then that automatically means that you're out 214 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: here trying to hurt people, trying to scan people, like 215 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: you can't be trusted, you can't you know, be involved 216 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: in community like people in want to the community. And 217 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: so that's the one that I think is the biggest 218 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: one that I'm trying to deal with right now, as 219 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: like I'm more vocal about it and like telling people 220 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: about what I believe or don't believe, right, I am 221 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: really self conscious about people viewing me as like a 222 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: bad person. That makes sense, Like I don't want someone 223 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: to think that like I can't be trusted, that I'm gonna, 224 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, hurt them or hurt their families or do 225 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: things to take tear down communities. Like that's the farthest 226 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: thing from my mind. And so that's the one thing 227 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: of the big misconcessions is that like we're viewed as 228 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: people who are just without morals at all, so we 229 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: can't we can't interact with communities or societies in a 230 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: positive way. We're just out here trying to hurt and 231 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: you know, do bad things to people, and that's just 232 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: not the case. So I also felt like another misconception 233 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: is atheists are only white people. Yeah, that is one, 234 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: Like I get comments every now and then, like I 235 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: don't go back and forth a lot in the comments anymore, 236 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: but that is one that somehow it's like a European invention, 237 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: like white people invented um nonbelief, I guess. And so 238 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: I think it also doesn't help that like the last 239 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I'm not a huge 240 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know the whole history of all these 241 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: like people like the Richard Dawkins people, and like there's 242 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: three other ones. I always forget their names. But it 243 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: was like these four white guys that kind of start 244 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: talking about it a lot, and they're out here writing 245 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: books and this and that, and so it became more 246 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: like focused. The face of it became really white, um, 247 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: and so people just think that, oh, it's like a 248 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: white thing, and it's it's not something that I even 249 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: really thought of until I was doing the videos and 250 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: talking with people more often that people say saying, oh, 251 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: like the white man has brainwashed you basically, And so 252 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I I it's hard. I don't know how 253 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: to how else that's planned. It like, it's not something 254 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: that is tied to a specific culture. Is just like 255 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: how do you you know, if you don't believe something, 256 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: you just don't believe something. I don't think you can 257 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: attached to a culture. So I think generally, like people 258 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: usually think of people of color, specifically black people's, right, 259 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: I think there's something about black people's across the diaspora 260 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: that is just tied to um like they're always it's 261 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: always like the opposite of whiteness, right, Like, so if 262 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: if Europeans are considered X, Y and z, then blackness 263 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: is considered you know, X y and right. So you know, 264 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,479 Speaker 1: thinking of blackness as having a tie to that spirituality, 265 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: So being really tied to each other and ancestors and 266 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: the earth and having that communal vibe is seen as 267 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: like the opposite of whiteness, right, And so I think 268 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: just sometimes you'll think, how if you're if you're saying 269 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: that you don't believe all these things that they're tied 270 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: to spiritual stuff, then that is the core of what 271 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: is a lot of a lot of different black peoples 272 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: across that I asked, the right that's so core essential 273 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: to their identity. So to claim atheism is to like 274 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: to disown everything about my you know, africanity altogether. And 275 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: so you know, it is what it is. Like I 276 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: usually I don't know how else explained to people, how 277 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: how I came to these beliefs. But I feel like 278 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: I can still participate in the parts of like spirituality 279 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: in a way that makes sense to me right within 280 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: my you know, within my identity of the nonbeliever. Um, 281 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: because I like, I still like these but I still 282 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: feel like I still have emotions. I still very tied 283 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: to community and you know, the things that make us human, right, 284 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: our emotions, I'm still very much tied to that. Um. 285 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: I just feel like, you know, I don't have to 286 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: explain it in any other way. I don't have to 287 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: like explain it as coming from somewhere else besides coming 288 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: from within, If that makes sense. Do you think there 289 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: ever be a time where non believers will stop being 290 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: a bad rep Yeah, And like I hope so, because 291 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's just me advocating for my own my 292 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: own that's my heart identity now, I hope. So I 293 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,239 Speaker 1: don't know, um if it's going to happen in my lifetime. 294 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about this the other day. I 295 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: was like, Wow, there ever gonna be a time where 296 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: it's like I don't have to defend who I am 297 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: or prove to people that I'm not a bad person. Um. 298 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: So I don't know, honestly, don't know. I think it's 299 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: going to be really hard, like just having to to 300 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: deal with my own family like present day, the struggles 301 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: day to day that I have to go through as 302 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: a part of like having this as a part of 303 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: my identity now it's a really hard, Like I'm still 304 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: dealing with people like that I have been possessed. Yeah, 305 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: like you guy's my mom today. She is a dent 306 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: certain that there's a demon inside of me today, Like 307 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: and it's really hard because it's like that's my mom. 308 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: Like when you have people who anyone else in the world, 309 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: like if the people who gave birth to you think 310 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: that you have a demon or you have a negative 311 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: spirit inside of you, it's really hard. And so I 312 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: don't that's like an extreme example, but I just don't. 313 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what's gonna happen in my lifetime where 314 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: like people can be openly atheists and people automatically assume 315 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: that um that they're you know, antisocial or like trying 316 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: to hurt people, or they're just not fully functioning people 317 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: in society. And I think it's because is like I 318 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: and since I'm I hope, I don't want to speak 319 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 1: for believers, because you know, I did grow up in 320 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: the church, so I have some of that experience. So 321 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm only speaking from my experiences, right, So I feel 322 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: like because of religion, people they put a lot of 323 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: authority into religion to kind of dictate morality and things 324 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: like that, and so people just can't see, they can't 325 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: see a pathway forward of figuring out morality outside of 326 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: the confines of some religious structure. Right, We've never in 327 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: human history had to do that, and so I just 328 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: don't know how it's going to happen, But I hope. 329 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: So I hope that one day people can kind of 330 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: just if they don't believe stuff, as long as their 331 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: actions and the stuff that they're doing community and for 332 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: the world of society and they're you know, things like 333 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: that are positive that they can just kind of be 334 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: okay with who they are, right, But we're gonna talk 335 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: more about your religious upbringing because just here you explain it. 336 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: Also on the misconception she gave about people just afraid 337 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: that you're a bad person, I could say that really 338 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: bothers you. Yeah, yeah, and it is. It's just it's 339 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: hard to explain because especially yeah, like it is hurtful 340 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: just to hear that and to just live with that. 341 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: It is hurtful. And it's like it's also doubly because 342 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: there definitely are atheists aren't better than other people. So 343 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: it's like you have atheists out there, who really are 344 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, from anybody's a lot of people's definition they'd 345 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: be bad people, like they maybe hurt people or don't 346 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: help people or whatever. Um. So I just feel like 347 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: I am so much the opposite of that, Like a 348 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: lot of what I do in my life or the 349 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: things that I have aspired to do, like I wanted 350 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: to nonprofits, I specifically, like I'm very community focused, Like 351 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: I'm very much about like how can we help people 352 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: in the here and now, like trying to make sure 353 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: that we have equitable society and like fighting for all 354 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: human rights things like that. So what to me, it 355 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: seems like that's the negative side of that is so 356 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: completely on the other side of the world, opposite of 357 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: who I think myself to be, and then to like 358 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: constantly have to question that and like, you know, feel 359 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: like I'm defending that side of me. Just it becomes 360 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: exhausting at the point is like I just don't even 361 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: want to, like I rather just hide it and not 362 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: have to. Like, you know, for example, I had a 363 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: friend who I went to high school with, and you know, 364 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't still involved in the church of the high 365 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: school kids, like probably not like heavily, but you know, 366 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm still going as part of my part of my 367 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: family's um think way of doing things. And so we 368 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: became closer after after like in our mid twenties, we 369 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: kind of found each other again. And now she has 370 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: like kids, and like, she has no idea that I 371 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: have become an atheist, and you know, we're in younger 372 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: in high school, and so like, you know, it's hard 373 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: to make friends as adults, and so like I want 374 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: to maintain that friendship, but I'm so worried that if 375 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: she finds out that I'm an atheist now that she's 376 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: gonna like cut me out of her life, that she 377 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: would want me to interact with her kids, that she'll 378 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, she might even think there's a spiritual thing 379 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: going on or demons or whatever it is. And so 380 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: having to like tiptoe that line and like try to 381 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: like you know, be present, but also know that I 382 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: can't reveal too much about myself. I was, it's a 383 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: burdens and but you know it's not it's not bad 384 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: every single day, but they just yourself, Yeah, for sure, 385 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: And I think about that like I wish, but like 386 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 1: being myself is not like I am not trying to 387 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: be myself in a way that's gonna Like I told 388 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: my family recently, like hey, I haven't been Christian, Like 389 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: I haven't been a believer in a while, but you 390 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: guys didn't even know. Like it's not like I come 391 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: to fat family gatherings and you know, tear down Christianity 392 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: or like you know, talking Jesus like I'm exactly like 393 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: I don't announce it. I don't have to. Like we 394 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: can talk about all the regular stuff that you know, 395 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: we could talk about politics, pop culture, we can talk 396 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: about our family stuff, we can talk about all the 397 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: other things we talk about and like I generally don't 398 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: have any type of like ambition to you know. I 399 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: think that's the think people that's that's a good missing 400 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: concession about atheism is that they're always trying to argue 401 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: with somebody or they're always trying to debate somebody, And 402 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't have the energy, Like I literally 403 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: don't have the energy to debate with anybody about you know, 404 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: atheism and theeves or anything like that. So I think 405 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: people sometimes thinks if you're an atheist, you can't like 406 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: interact with believers. I'm like, no, I feel like most 407 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: people that I know in my life are believers. And 408 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: it's fine, Like it's not something that comes up often. 409 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: It's more sold me just not speaking some things out 410 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: sometimes kind of keep you to myself out of respect. 411 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: Like I still respect people and people's feelings and how 412 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: they feel, and I I know how important it is 413 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: to people, like and I don't want to negatively, you know, 414 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: hurt people because um of what I believe, what they believe, 415 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: So I can I'm able to maintain relationships with people 416 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: without having to you know, tear down what they believe. Right. 417 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: Do you meet a lot of black people there are atheists. No, No, 418 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: absolutely not. There's like I mean, like, I never met one. 419 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: I've never met one in real life, Like I've never like, 420 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: and I guess how would I know? Like, I don't 421 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: know how I would know unless, like I think were 422 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: as you know, but nobody wears around here. And number one, 423 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: where are you based from? I'm in New York and 424 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: I know you're in Minnesota? Right, Minnesota. Yeah, there's not 425 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: that many black people to begin with, Like, right, there's 426 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: not that many was here in the first place, So 427 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: there's that. Um so I don't meet black atheists hardly. Ever, 428 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever like, And I was like, 429 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't ask people either because I don't 430 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, I guess people don't. How would you know 431 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: unless someone tells you. But I've never like in and 432 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: turn a black person in real life and we both 433 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: discovered that we're atheists or nonbelievers? Is there a place 434 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: for atheists to go to? Like I don't know if 435 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 1: this is the correct word to say, but like for 436 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: congregation or anything, like where do y'all go? Because that's 437 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: only imagine I would feel that you don't. It's not 438 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: a lot of black people there and they you're a 439 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: part of our you're an atheist, so you don't really 440 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: have the money to talk to or just fully be 441 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: your stuck becase you're afraid people gonna judge you. So 442 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: it's like where do you go? The Internet? I guess 443 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: that's what happened. Like I was going to the internet 444 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: to talk to people. So yeah, there's there was there's 445 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: like I think there's this the app called the meet 446 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: up app, and like I had gone to they have 447 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: like a they don't call it like atheism or anything 448 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: like that, but it was like they have all kinds 449 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: of dames because a lot of people don't like to 450 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: you from atheists. I think this one was like a 451 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: secular humanist or something like that. And so I went 452 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: to a meet up that they did and it was 453 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: all these old white people, so like I just didn't 454 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: even feel comfortable just being there for other being that space. 455 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: So there's that, but like there are I think if 456 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: you're in bigger cities in general, you can probably find 457 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: more like uh spaces or like if you look online, 458 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: you can probably find some spaces. But um, I think 459 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: the mode like for a lot of people who are 460 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: minority groups that the internet usually ends up being the 461 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: place where you can most likely find people who talked 462 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: about that stuff. Um, but yeah, in Minnesota, I have not. 463 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: I think they might have some meetup groups, but they're 464 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: not a lot of them and they're not superactive. So 465 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: there's not like black nonbelievers space that like functions well, 466 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: I think here. But if there's is a community, it's 467 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: probably like a virtual community and just like message boards 468 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: and different people doing different things online. M hmm. Do 469 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: you think the human brain was taught to believe in God? 470 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: And if so, why, Um, listen, don't quote me anything, 471 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: because I did my degree in communication. I'm not an anthropologist. 472 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: I'm not a scientist. So I think I just have 473 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: my like ideas of what I think because I had 474 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: made a video kind of trying because because I really 475 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: do want to understand, like I really want to understand 476 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: what it is that makes me have these beliefs, Like, 477 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, why is it that it's harder for me 478 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: to believe this versus someone else? Right? So I think 479 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 1: there is a case to be made for how like 480 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: we we some parts that make it possible for people 481 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: to believe things. We do need to have that function 482 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: in our brains, right, I think to be human, there's 483 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: a part of you that has to believe in things 484 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: that you cannot see, if that makes sense, Like how 485 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: would we believe in love if like you know, I 486 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: mean like there's some things that they are not tangible 487 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: that is necessary for us to to to to have 488 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: faith in for us to function as human beings and 489 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: at that higher level. Right. So I think there's a 490 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: part of that that is like I want to understand 491 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: what that means in the brain and for like social interactions. Um. 492 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: But there's also like this the science part of it too, 493 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: where it's like okay, if you way way way back 494 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: before they had like tools to kind of research things 495 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: like if you're looking at the sun, like it makes 496 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: sense to me how the sun would be your god. 497 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: Like you don't know what the sun is. You don't know. 498 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: All you know is that it controlled your ability to 499 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: get food or like to keep you warm, and so 500 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, using the sun is like Okay, we see, 501 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: we see this thing in the sky, and they just 502 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: believe that this thing has powers because it's doing things 503 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: that affect them, right the weather. I think a lot 504 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: of different um like cultures like outside of the big 505 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: the big ones like Christianity and Islam and things like that. 506 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: There's all there's tons of cultures out there who have 507 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: tons of uh let us belife, spiritual beliefs that are 508 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: tied to the earth, right because whether for a long 509 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: time control so much of you know, human stuff, like 510 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: if there's flooding or volcano nature you know this, yeah, 511 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: nature exactly. So people lived in nature and they couldn't 512 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: control it, but they you know, they try to find 513 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: ways to control nature, um and that kind of all 514 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: these rituals and things like that. So I think it's 515 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: a part of just how we evolved as human beings 516 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: with nature that they didn't they had no other tools. 517 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: They didn't have any other tools to feel like, oh, 518 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: why does this flood over here? You know, why does 519 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: this volcano erupt? Or why does you know? Why is 520 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: it we don't get rain? Right? People would have so 521 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: many cultures have rain dances to kind of to see 522 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: if they can beg the heavens to send down rains 523 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: and maybe somebody does a certain kind of dance this 524 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: way and the next thing, you know, it rains. So 525 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: they keep doing it because they assument Okay, work this time, 526 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: let's continue doing it. So I feel like it's so 527 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: many different factors that go into like you know, how 528 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: people evolved in the brain and just societally, that it 529 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: makes sense to me how religion became a thing, because 530 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: like I can't even I can't even imagine like five 531 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, like even you know, I think a 532 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: lot of religions are older than that, but five thousand 533 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: years ago the tools they had to kind of makes 534 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: sense of the natural world. We're very, very limited, and 535 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: so humans do what they do best, and they adapt 536 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: and they do do what they can and you know, 537 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: child survives. So m I'm just scarious. Do you feel 538 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: like this was every religion? Like how do you feel 539 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: about different relgions, because I'm pretty sure you did your 540 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: research on those as well. Yeah, And so like for me, 541 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: I it's not so much like so when I think 542 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: of religion, I think of it as like it's got 543 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: certain I don't know steps of the right word, but 544 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: there's certain confines. So like you know, I think Chris 545 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: Andy is the one that I know the most about 546 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: because that's the one that was raising Like there's certain 547 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: like parts of religion that are just like each religion 548 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: that are. You know, it's a it's a structure that 549 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: makes sense. So within a religion is a structure. So 550 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: I think there's some people who say, okay, I'm religious, 551 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: mean that they they take the pre made um the 552 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: religious in doctrine right. So you know, all kinds of 553 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: religions have different texts, they have different um ways of 554 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: expressing their beliefs, They have different things they say they 555 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: should do in this life, they have different expectations of 556 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: what happens to you when you leave this life, and 557 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: so there's all kinds of things, but they're pretty much 558 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: pre made, pre prescribed, like here's her what the people 559 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: from whoever, what however long ago believed in and they 560 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: continue to pass down those same beliefs. I think of 561 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: religion is more as a structure. But there's also people 562 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: who are like just spiritual, right, So people who are like, hey, 563 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: I don't believe in a specific doctrine, but I do 564 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: believe that there is a spiritual world that are current 565 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: tools cannot measure, right, and they interact with it on 566 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: a personal basis. So they might have their own personal 567 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: way of interact ting with um the spiritual world and 568 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: so for me, I think the reason I go by 569 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: atheist is because it's not so much the religion. It's 570 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: more so the claims of that higher level of anything, 571 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: like that supernatural element of things. Right. So I think 572 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: that's for me where everything hangs on is like, Okay, 573 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: there's this idea that somehow right or not even how 574 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: can it be proven? Because I don't think like if 575 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: they're saying like supernatural, it's like this is above, you know, 576 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: our natural world. Like the just idea of something being 577 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: supernatural means that it does not cross with anything. We 578 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,239 Speaker 1: can't measure it, right, It's not that we can measure, like, 579 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: That's what That's my problem with some atheists is like 580 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: they're trying to prove or or trying to disprove a 581 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: god be a science and I'm like, if there's a 582 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: supernatural world, I don't believe that the tools of science 583 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: are going to be what gets you to that supernatural world. Right, 584 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: this is above it's something that it's a thing else 585 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: going on, right, So I think for me it's like 586 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: at this point is above our pagree right exactly, Like 587 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: I don't think And that's to me, And that's where 588 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: the thing is like, that's that. That's the feeling that 589 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: leads me in the space of atheism. Atheism is like, Okay, 590 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: if there is a supernatural world out there, number one, 591 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: the ways in which you interact with it. To me, 592 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: it feels like it should be obvious and then like 593 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: it should be more like it seems like for a 594 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: lot of these religions and like spiritual beliefs, is that 595 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: you have to do something, like you have to do 596 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: something to activated to interact with it. Right, that's number one. 597 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: And to me, I feel like, well, if this is 598 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: a thing, like if it's real, if it's out here, 599 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: me as an individual, I shouldn't have to like do 600 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: something to actively like it should just be obvious in 601 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: my life. I should be able to know like, Okay, 602 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: I woke up this morning and I had this spiritual experience, 603 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: right like, or this happen. I was driving and this happened. 604 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: It should be obvious in that way to me, and 605 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: I seem like a lot of the things that people 606 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: put forwards like Okay, this thing happened because of a 607 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: supernatural world. I'm like, well, how do I know that? 608 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,239 Speaker 1: Like how do I tell the difference? Like right and 609 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: that's where it gets fuzzy for me because it's like, Okay, 610 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: somebody can say, Okay, I prayed and then I was healed. 611 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: But then on the other side, you have someone who 612 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: prayed and they were not healed, and you have someone 613 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: who didn't pray and they were healed. So how do 614 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: I now utilize it as a tool, Like why should 615 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: I now start making decisions or why should I now 616 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: start like doing rich participating in rituals to manipulate the 617 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: spiritual world, Like how can I actually effectively use it 618 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: as a tool? And so far, I feel like I 619 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: don't need to utilize it as a tool. So if 620 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: it's there or not, they know where to find me. Like, 621 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: if it's if it's something that's going to happen in 622 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: my life, it'll happen. I just don't feel like I 623 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: have to like put in so much effort to utilize 624 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: as a tool that I see other well doing. Beyond 625 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: the fact that I do think there's some personal benefits 626 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: to people, like you know, it helps them feel more centered, 627 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: it helps them feel connected to their ancestors, it helps 628 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: them and a variety of ways, right which I'm not 629 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: going to downplay the effect that it has on people. 630 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: But like, as I'm walking through this world in my life, 631 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: I feel like, Okay, if there's a supernatural world that 632 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to science class and figure 633 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: it out. The only way you interact with it is 634 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: by living your life, and so far in my life, 635 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: I have not yet found a way to use it 636 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: as a useful tool to me. Um. So that's kind 637 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: of where I am right now. I forgot what was 638 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: the question? I forgot? The question was no, no, no, 639 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: you're good, You're good. You know what, let's talk with 640 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: your religious upbringing. But I feel like when you would 641 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: describing it, and maybe it's also because your families from Nigeria, 642 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: it was very like in so tell us about your 643 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: background and what Madejohn moved to Minnesota. Yeah, I mean 644 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: I definitely would. Eventually, when I get my life together, 645 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: I want to actually do a real thorough examination of 646 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: this because I think it's fascinating. Like how like the 647 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: so there's so many there's so much variety that existed 648 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: in Africa. Um, you know, there's still people today who 649 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: think Africa as a country. Right, So, like there's so 650 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: many different religions and cultures. It's it is so rich 651 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: in culture, in the content of Africa, right, So they 652 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: have many many ways of expressing their spiritual beliefs, like 653 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: you go so many different ways, right, beautiful ways, um, 654 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: unique ways, all kinds of ways of doing that um. 655 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: And a lot of it was tied to like you know, 656 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: nature and the idea that there was multiple gods. Right, 657 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: So the idea that you know, you have a god 658 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: that like even in my own like my parents culture 659 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: evil they have the name China, which means like God 660 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: the Creator. Like there were other gods, like other gods 661 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: doing other things. And I think, you know, people always 662 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: think about like Greek and Roman or whatever they had 663 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: like all those different gods and different different things. So 664 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: I think, you know, a lot of African cultures they 665 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: had multiple gods, a lot of stuff to do with nature, um. 666 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: And people interacted with the spiritual all the many levels. 667 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: Like they could have a small like a medicine man 668 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: who is really good at doing this, but they can 669 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of you know, go back and forth the spiritual 670 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: world and like interact with it in those ways. So 671 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: I believe, And this is like I said, I'm not 672 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: a historian or anything like that, but when colonization happened, 673 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: like they introduced Christianity and then like Islam, so like 674 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: within a span of like I don't know, it was 675 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 1: up to a hundred of years, Like Africa went from 676 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: having all these different religious practices to now today being 677 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: mostly either Christian or Islam, right. And so I think 678 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: with my mom and her the way that she was 679 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: brought up. By time she was born, like they had 680 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: been colonized, and so she grew up also having Christian beliefs. 681 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: But like she'll tell me stories of like her her 682 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: father or her and father, and they were heavily involved 683 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: in what they called juju, which is like witchcraft, right, 684 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: because they were taught to believe that their native practices 685 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: were evil and all demonic and all things are bad 686 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: and you should now turn to Christianity because that US 687 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: is the savior for everything. So I think they kind 688 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: of took a combination of their old practices. So like 689 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: my mom super believes in, you know, the very the 690 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: gritty part of spirituality. So like the demons and it's 691 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: warfare and you're fighting and the blood and like you know, 692 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: you have to fight, Like it's like there's always constant 693 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: warfare going on in the spiritual world and you have 694 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: to fight it, and there's witches, there's people who will 695 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: put spells on you, there's like you know, and that's 696 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: because from her experience with her father and her grandfather 697 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: is like having seen them do I'm sure like all 698 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: kinds of spiritual whatever whatever, they just have to said 699 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: that all that stuff is evil and there's you know, 700 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: it involves blood and involves sacrifice. So all these things 701 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: that they were conditioned to believe our are bad. And 702 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: so she carried that with her as a you know, 703 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: to the Christian beliefs, and so they're believing, they believe 704 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: in Jesus, they believe that Jesus is God's Son, and 705 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: they believe in you know, they believe in Hell, and 706 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: they believe in the Holy Spirit. But they're also like, 707 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: you know, super like again, they have a lot of 708 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: demons and think that they're fighting. So I think that's 709 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: the part of um the African tea that is very 710 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: much present. UM. So she came here to state. UM. 711 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: I don't know why they picked Minnesota. I think it 712 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: was just like maybe they had known people who have 713 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: been here before something like that, Like my dad went 714 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: to school in North Kota and then he's like, yo, no, 715 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: I was like, what if they pick Minnesota of all places? 716 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, I still wanted the same thing. I 717 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 1: still live here. I don't know. I think it's just 718 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: because like proximity, like maybe they knew some people who 719 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 1: have settled here or something like that. Um. I don't 720 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: know they I wish they hadn't, but it is what 721 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: it is now. So yeah, they came here and she 722 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 1: joined a church here that was like you know, people 723 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 1: immigrants find each other, like they had the church version 724 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: Deeper Life Bible church. It was a Nigeria, so you know, 725 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: once they came over here, they just rented office space 726 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: here and create that church here. But they were super 727 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: like And I also think it's like the African and 728 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: I don't I can't speak for all of Africa. I 729 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: know with a lot of nine Duran culture, they're super 730 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: into authority and so like pastor is everything, like you 731 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: can't defy pastor um. And so they just had a 732 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: very conservative, you know, way of life like they like 733 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: a lot of conservative religions, like women are second class citizens. 734 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: You you know, you have to wear dresses in church, 735 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: you have to wear long skirts. You can't have your 736 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 1: hair open um anything that was spiritually bring you down, 737 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: like anything worldly world. I have a hard time saying 738 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: that worldly. So like, you know, you can't wear makeup 739 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: because that's vanity, right, you can't wear jewelry, that's vanity, 740 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: I know. But you also couldn't watch the lawn Mermaid. No, 741 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: what the the mermaid in Nigeria is a is a witch. 742 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: She's a seawitch. How dare you bring the seawitch to 743 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: my to my family? Right, So all these things that 744 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: they just feel are tied to the to the spiritual 745 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: world in a negative way, which is a lot of things. 746 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: Like at a certain point this becomes irritating because everything 747 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: like literally like it's either it's the you can't do 748 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 1: anything exactly, Like it's the Bible, you have, the church, 749 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: you gotta and if it wasn't specifically made to glorify God, 750 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: you know, then it was considered stay of Satan. Right. 751 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: So like if the music you're listening to is if 752 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: you're not singing to God, you're automatically singing to the devil. 753 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: If you're not like creating that art for God, you're 754 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: creating for the devil. And if you're not like doing 755 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: something that's specifically supposed to be bettering the Kingdom of God, 756 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: you're doing it for the devil, so that it just 757 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: gets the narrowscope of like what is okay basically, And 758 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: so I didn't really think, like I didn't know any different, 759 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: like I had no other other experience, like I was 760 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: that's the church that uh we were born into, Like 761 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: not literally we weren't born there, but like you know, 762 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: when she had us as babies, that's the church that 763 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: she was attending. Um, so we went there for a while, 764 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: and like it was just like the children are so 765 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: uh flexible, like the way that as a child just 766 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: able to accept reality, whatever your reality end, without questioning 767 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: that's just what it was. You had a choice, Like 768 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't walking around like at the time when like 769 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: oh why can't I wear a pass at church? Or 770 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: why do we have to wear a hat? It was 771 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: just you just did it because that's what every That's 772 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,879 Speaker 1: what it was, and you just didn't you ask questions 773 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: too much. And so like I it wasn't until later 774 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: on that like I even start to unpack some of 775 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: those things, like in my as an adult and going 776 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: to my teenage years, Like what that meant, like, you know, 777 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: as a woman, like as your identity as a woman, 778 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: Like everything tied to womanhood was seen as a negative, right, 779 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: like the way that And I think that's not just 780 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of religions too. Is like, 781 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, just trying to find your identity as a 782 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: young woman, um and feeling like you know, everything about 783 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: me is bad or dirty or like whatever, right or 784 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: you know all those kinds of things and so um. 785 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: As a kid, I think I was mainly just having fun, 786 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,760 Speaker 1: like I would go to church, hanging with my friends, um, 787 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: things like that. But I think I didn't like the 788 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: I think when I was around middle school time, we 789 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: had gone to another church that was similar what are 790 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: you talking about, the predominantly white one. Uh yeah, well okay, 791 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: so my mom bounced around who after the first time. 792 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: I remember after the first church broke up, which is 793 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: a hot mess like that, Like that's the thing when 794 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 1: you put power, too much power on one person's hands, 795 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: like it becomes a hot mess because there was no accountability. 796 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: There was no type of like you know, oversight it 797 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: just like they had this one pastor who was at 798 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: the head of everybody, and like he got all the 799 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 1: money and eventually he ended up missased the money. So 800 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: it's like there was no type of accountability of that 801 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: church at all, and it was just a lot of 802 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: power hungry in my opinion, dudes who were trying, who 803 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: were praying on vulnerable women, especially immigrant women who come 804 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: to this country and they don't have anything else familiar 805 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: that becomes their home, which I don't like, I don't 806 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: fault I never fault any of these people in that 807 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: situations because I know what that means. Like you come 808 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: to a country, especially Minnesota, where you don't see anybody 809 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: that looks like you, you don't know anything else familiar, 810 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: It makes sense to me why they would like, you know, 811 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: cling to that, to that space and like do whatever 812 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: they could to maintain that space. Um. Yeah, we bounced 813 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: around after that church fell apart. Um went to a 814 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: predominantly white church, which is like white conservatives, like it's 815 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: a trip, Like they are a whole another level of 816 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: and they're organized, Like they were more organized so they 817 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,800 Speaker 1: could take their like beliefs even further. Um, they weren't 818 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: as into like the spiritual world. They weren't like super 819 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: like my Mom's church brought that like that tradition of 820 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: old of like very enthusiastic praying and and you know 821 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 1: changing and singing like yeah, they like listen, I don't. 822 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: I'm not bad at the music. Like I think the 823 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: black people in general across I asked for like in 824 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: terms of music and creating music that it really knew 825 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: somebody like they had a good time and the you know, 826 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: praise worship was that was not a bad time at all. Um, 827 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: So they had that part of it. Then after the 828 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: White Church and like it's like, oh God, God, they 829 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: like they were very old, you know, like um, but 830 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: they were very into the Bible. They still kind of 831 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: believed in demons, but they didn't feel like you have 832 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: to fight them as much. They just felt like, you know, 833 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: avoid them. You know, so they still avoid Halloween. I 834 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like, yeah, when I was at 835 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: that church, the White Church, I definitely felt, Um, I 836 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: don't know if it's racism, but like there's something about 837 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: white evangelicals as just like still off putting to me. 838 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to offend anybody, but like it's funny 839 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: like they can still kind of maintain their values in 840 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: Christianity but also somehow be racist. I don't know, like 841 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: they it's a weird dynamic. A lot of the people 842 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: of color who were at that church were adopted black 843 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,359 Speaker 1: people from white families. Like they didn't they didn't want 844 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: to like genuinely interact with music color, if that makes sense. 845 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: They would rather just adopted children and then raised them 846 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: and their church. Yeah, I remember the time we were 847 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: like I will never forget to say. We were at 848 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,839 Speaker 1: church and we were one of the only black families 849 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: like mother father, children like that were not adopted, right, 850 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: And so I were sitting there in the pews and 851 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,879 Speaker 1: a white lady brings her son who was like made 852 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,879 Speaker 1: four or something. He was a black boy, and she's like, oh, look, 853 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 1: there's some other chocolate people. And she brought this kid 854 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: to introduce stuff like oh look, I'm introducing my son 855 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: to like other chocolate people. I'm like, this is like, 856 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 1: what are we supposed to do with that, like, oh 857 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: black boy? Like it was very awkward, but they were 858 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: That's how it was. Yeah, black people are so crazy. 859 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: But also your mom didn't like their church either. She 860 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: did not. She didn't like it because even though my 861 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: my mom definitely has issues with Um. Yeah, she's still black. 862 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: She just she didn't like the way sometime people treated her. Um, 863 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: it just wasn't as you know, exciting. Like she enjoyed 864 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: the cultural part of her previous churches, you know, speaking 865 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: the same language as the people. You know, they said 866 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: they would bring food to church, like you know, after 867 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: church they hand out rice and chicken and food and 868 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: like they eating their food together, like it was a community. Right. 869 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know, the white church provide 870 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: her with like her obligations as a Christian, Like, Okay, 871 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,240 Speaker 1: you don't have to go to church, you studied the Bible, 872 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: you pray, you kind of stay away from the bad stuff. Fine, 873 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: But with the other church, like the African churches, that's 874 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 1: where it fed her soul for real, for real, Like 875 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: that's where she could go and like you know, singing 876 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: in the way that she wanted to sing, and dance 877 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: in the way that she wants to dance, and like 878 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, believe the things that she wants to leave 879 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: in the wake through her cultural lens from back home. Um. 880 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: So she didn't like that they were not as you know, 881 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: exciting at that church. And she also just didn't like 882 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: being one of the few black families in the church. 883 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: She wanted to go back work, she felt in So, yeah, 884 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: she kind of had issues with that church, and she 885 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,840 Speaker 1: didn't like that they didn't they weren't super intense about praying. 886 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 1: She felt like it was very necessary to you know, 887 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: go and fight the demons and like attack them before 888 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: they attack you and all that kind of stuff. And 889 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: she's like, they don't pray enough here, they don't do 890 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: enough spiritual workare here there's a prayer prayer warriors at 891 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: this church, So they're gonna they're not doing a good job. Now, 892 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 1: let's fast forward to college. If I'm not mistaken, you 893 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: took a class and philosophy and you do your research 894 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: on or your research paper on religion. What happened? Yeah, 895 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: so yeah, that was a big And like when I 896 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: going into college, I I knew I still believed. And 897 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: the only reason I know I still believe. There's two 898 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: reasons I know is because I I was. I don't 899 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 1: want to say that I don't I don't want to 900 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: expose myself too much. I feel like I went to 901 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 1: college my first semester. What's the tastis while them even 902 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,840 Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, I did all the things 903 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: that you could expect, I mean, nothing and nothing out 904 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: of the normal. But compared to like what if my 905 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: mom find out something looks like the drinking, like I 906 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,919 Speaker 1: had smoked weed for the first time, like I had like, 907 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, messing with boys, just like all the things 908 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,000 Speaker 1: that would be I think a typical teenager would do. Yeah, 909 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: So nothing like I didn't do like Heroin or anything 910 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: like that. Like I just was kind of like you know, 911 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,320 Speaker 1: living lively ones the parties, you know, dancing, you know, 912 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: dancing with people, like singing, people were drinking, just like 913 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,839 Speaker 1: things that people would expect in a typical like college life, right, 914 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,320 Speaker 1: But I felt so bad about it. So I remember 915 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: coming home after that first semester and like writing in 916 00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: my journal like, oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, I 917 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: did this. I did this, like, oh my gosh, Like 918 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: I was so stressed because, like, you know, that's all 919 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: the things I score up to Mom, I wasn't gonna do. 920 00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: Once I went to California, which she already thought, how 921 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: for it was the Devil's Land because that's where Hollywood is. 922 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: So she's like, you better be careful because they're going 923 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: out here, like don't get caught up in the devil's 924 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 1: works on all this kind of stuff. Right, So I 925 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: knew I still believe because I remember very vividly rejournaling 926 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: about it and being like, you know, I think I 927 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: got next semester, I'm gonna do better, Like I'm gonna 928 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: avoid this temptation. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not 929 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: gonna do that. I'm gonna be stronger what or whatever? Right. 930 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,920 Speaker 1: And then also I had joined UM and like a 931 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: on campus miniature group, but I think they're pretty common 932 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 1: on universities, Like you know, a student group organization. Um, 933 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,799 Speaker 1: you know, I don't. They just did Bible study and 934 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,440 Speaker 1: retreats and things like that. So I had signed up 935 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,719 Speaker 1: for that voluntarily. So that's the only reason I know 936 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: that I was still kind of I still believed in 937 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: my the my upbringing at that point, like within that 938 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: first year I was in college, right, Um, but I 939 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: was struggling with it, like I wasn't UM. I knew 940 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: I was struggling with it because like I was asking 941 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: myself questions specifically related to like suffering, and like I 942 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: know because I love babies. I love babies. I I 943 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: grew up in youth work um as a nanny, so 944 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: like I love babies and I love I love working 945 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: with youth, and so I just couldn't wrap my mind 946 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,439 Speaker 1: around like we had recently had a family friends kid 947 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,279 Speaker 1: who had passed and he was like nine or ten, 948 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: and like he had just gone out of out of 949 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: a pool or he was swimming or whatever whatever, and 950 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,400 Speaker 1: then he had died like just he fell and he 951 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,280 Speaker 1: died like his heart stopped. And so in my mind 952 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 1: like at that time, trying to like understand it, you know, 953 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: like the general things that people would tell you, like Okay, 954 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,799 Speaker 1: well everything is in God's plan, you know, all things 955 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,399 Speaker 1: work with the greater good of the Lord, like all 956 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: these kinds of things. But then in my mind, I'm 957 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: like he didn't have to die, like he wasn't hurting anybody, 958 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: like to try to like understand why that had happened, 959 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: and then kind of tied that to like all the 960 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: things that we have been taught growing up, Like like 961 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,600 Speaker 1: in my mind, and we did all these things right, 962 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,919 Speaker 1: like we pray all this much, we do all these 963 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,200 Speaker 1: things to avoid having this happened. And then all of 964 00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: a sudden, out of the blue, like a little innocent 965 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,720 Speaker 1: kid just died out of the blue. I'm like, whoa, 966 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 1: Like that is not at all what I had. It's 967 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,319 Speaker 1: just like it just it was a confrontation. It was 968 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,160 Speaker 1: a mental confrontation, you know what I mean, if that 969 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 1: makes sense, like trying to like understand how that happened, right, 970 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 1: And so that's when I just started thinking, like, well, 971 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 1: you know what is like stuffering? Like you know you 972 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,319 Speaker 1: don't you have And I was had my laptop for 973 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: the first time. I didn't have a laptop too much 974 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 1: in high school, and so you know, you got a college, 975 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: you got laptops. I was on the internet, so I 976 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: was like a lot seeing a lot of stuff about, 977 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,720 Speaker 1: Like there's lots of people in the world who are stuffering. 978 00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 1: They've got a famine over here, You've got this natural disaster. 979 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,879 Speaker 1: You have all these things happening in the world where 980 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,840 Speaker 1: there are people who have a different face. All is 981 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,960 Speaker 1: kind of even Christian societies, and you have little babies 982 00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: dying like suffering, being killed or kidnap or whatever. And 983 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,200 Speaker 1: then I'm like what like And then I started doing math, 984 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,280 Speaker 1: and I had like how many children in this world 985 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: actually have a good life? Like from what I would 986 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: measure the good life, right, how many children this world 987 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,880 Speaker 1: actually um live a pain free life? And I started 988 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 1: thinking like the numbers in my head of like how 989 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: many kids had died over the course of humanity in 990 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: such tragic ways, and like trying to make sense of 991 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,440 Speaker 1: that being a reality with also the reality of having 992 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 1: like a God who's supposed to love and take care 993 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: of people. So I'm not going to say that's what 994 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 1: led me to atheism, but I know I was struggling 995 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: with my faith because like I was trying to make 996 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,160 Speaker 1: it fit. I was trying to make it make sense, 997 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,239 Speaker 1: and like I'll usually tell people's like you know, I 998 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,880 Speaker 1: didn't and participate. I was going to become the atheists. 999 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,520 Speaker 1: I really thought that, like I would go through and 1000 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: like I just need to read more in the Bible, 1001 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,520 Speaker 1: like going to Bible, study read more, like double down 1002 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: on it, focus, and like it'll be fine. I genuinely, 1003 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,240 Speaker 1: at that point my freshman year, I did not think 1004 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,879 Speaker 1: I was going to be an atheist. Like I never 1005 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 1: even thought I was going to be an atheist. In 1006 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,360 Speaker 1: my entire life. Nothing at all would have led me think, oh, 1007 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to be an atheist. I knew I didn't 1008 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 1: like church because of how early it was, how long 1009 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 1: it was. The ladies were kind of mean, annoying, But 1010 00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: I never thought I was going to end up an 1011 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:21,040 Speaker 1: atheist and not believe in a God. Right, So what 1012 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: led you to become an atheist then? Right? And I'm 1013 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,960 Speaker 1: still trying to figure out the best way to explain it. So, 1014 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: like I had taken the class of philosophy class, and 1015 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,400 Speaker 1: like I'm not like a philosophy head, Like I'm not 1016 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,239 Speaker 1: super into. I had my issues with the way that 1017 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: they kind of present the traditional philosophy. I think it 1018 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,399 Speaker 1: is very Western and like white dominated. So like I'm 1019 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,160 Speaker 1: not trying to to praise Western philosophy at any by 1020 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,960 Speaker 1: any means. I just feel like, for me, that was 1021 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: the first time that I ever asked myself certain questions 1022 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: like I had never in my life I asked myself, 1023 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,360 Speaker 1: how do you know there's a God? Like it was 1024 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,480 Speaker 1: not even up until I was at that my second 1025 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,160 Speaker 1: year of college. I don't think I had never even 1026 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: I thought it was. It was just such a given, 1027 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,640 Speaker 1: it was such a given that we believe in God. 1028 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,400 Speaker 1: Obviously there's a God. Because and that was the first 1029 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,440 Speaker 1: time that I had to actually ask myself, okay, And 1030 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,920 Speaker 1: I was in that class like really trying to defend Christianity, 1031 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,239 Speaker 1: like oh, like people like how do you know that 1032 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 1: they have a soul? Like what do you mean how 1033 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 1: do you have a soul? Because and then realized that 1034 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to articulate the things that I believed in, 1035 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: Like if I say, I believe these things, and how 1036 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,840 Speaker 1: come I can't explain it right? How come I can't 1037 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,520 Speaker 1: make the case that I want to make. I just 1038 00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,400 Speaker 1: kind of had had them that I just had them 1039 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: in my heart and I just didn't really know how 1040 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,080 Speaker 1: to explain them right. So that was a philosophy class. 1041 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,279 Speaker 1: The main thing with that class was just that I 1042 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,759 Speaker 1: had asked myself, like the key questions I had never 1043 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,120 Speaker 1: in my life asked myself before, like what is um? 1044 00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: You know? What is justice? Or like how do you 1045 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: know you have a soul? Like all these questions that 1046 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,919 Speaker 1: I had asked myself. So that's what was that class. 1047 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 1: And once like you go down that path, I started 1048 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,080 Speaker 1: to ask yourself questions me being an overthinker and just 1049 00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,920 Speaker 1: having a really strong internal dialogue like I wanted to 1050 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,799 Speaker 1: have an answer, like I wanted to like like I 1051 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,360 Speaker 1: feel like I was an a student, Like I was 1052 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,400 Speaker 1: really good in school. I like I like studying, I 1053 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,960 Speaker 1: like learning, and I now was confronted with this subject 1054 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,080 Speaker 1: and like, I'm going to master this subject. I need 1055 00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,240 Speaker 1: to know. I need to be able to explain my beliefs. 1056 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,040 Speaker 1: I want to be the best at explaining my beliefs. 1057 00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,600 Speaker 1: I want to be the best at understanding what I believe. 1058 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,040 Speaker 1: And then the further I went down that road, I 1059 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,880 Speaker 1: was like, oh damn, like I actually don't. I can't 1060 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,360 Speaker 1: to get down to the rim of how do you 1061 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,160 Speaker 1: prove there's a God? I started to realize that I 1062 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,800 Speaker 1: can't actually prove there is a God, and so therefore 1063 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,759 Speaker 1: why do I believe it? Then? Right? And so that 1064 00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:51,440 Speaker 1: was kind of where I was that class. And then 1065 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,240 Speaker 1: the other class that I had taken was a class 1066 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:59,960 Speaker 1: where like we were comparing um the three like the Crown, 1067 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,160 Speaker 1: on with the with the Old Testament like the Torah, 1068 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,359 Speaker 1: and then with the um New Testament. So we're looking 1069 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,160 Speaker 1: at like those those three different scriptures. And I think 1070 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,080 Speaker 1: when I even started the class, like they go around 1071 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,160 Speaker 1: and ask people like, you know, what is what is 1072 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 1: your spiritual background? Like what's your belief kind of as 1073 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,480 Speaker 1: an icebreaker tige situation. And so I would have put Christian, 1074 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,680 Speaker 1: I think. And the professor himself was a rabbi, so 1075 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,880 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. Um, so he was a believers believer. 1076 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,719 Speaker 1: Um yeah yeah, So it's not like I few wanting 1077 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: always because he had atheist teacher, Like I never had 1078 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,719 Speaker 1: an atheist teacher before my life. Um, so we're taking 1079 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,600 Speaker 1: that class. And so I did never Like I honestly 1080 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,120 Speaker 1: as a kid, I didn't even know what Jewish people were. 1081 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,239 Speaker 1: I just really thought they were other white people, Like 1082 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: they're white people who believed something like something else. Right. 1083 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 1: I had saw princes of Egypt and like something about that, right, So, 1084 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,719 Speaker 1: like I didn't know anything about Judaism. The only thing 1085 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:53,680 Speaker 1: I knew about Islam with the negative stuff like my 1086 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 1: mom talks math smack about um, you know, Islam. And 1087 00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,919 Speaker 1: so I didn't know a whole lot about the act 1088 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,440 Speaker 1: will doctrine, like what they like, what do they actually believe? 1089 00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: Like why are these religions so different than why are 1090 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,160 Speaker 1: they such a big deal? Like studying it from that 1091 00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,000 Speaker 1: point of view and like reading the scripts or the 1092 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 1: text and like trying to make arguments based on that 1093 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: or like you know, look up definitions of things and 1094 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,200 Speaker 1: like from an academic point of view, and like reading 1095 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,800 Speaker 1: what other people have said from other backgrounds. Um. I 1096 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,520 Speaker 1: think what that did for me was just it made 1097 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:33,480 Speaker 1: me realize that there's so many different ways that people 1098 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 1: are interpreting our reality. Like I know, like I'm alive 1099 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: in this reality, right, but these this is not just 1100 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,480 Speaker 1: one person. We're talking about centuries, right, Like Judaism is old, 1101 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,800 Speaker 1: Islam is old, like Hinduism is old, Buddhism is old. 1102 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 1: Like you have entire civilizations who have come to radically 1103 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 1: different interpretations of what's going on, right, And so here 1104 00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:58,960 Speaker 1: I am trying to say I picked this on this 1105 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: one's the right one. I'm like, I don't know if 1106 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,680 Speaker 1: I can do that, Like what gives me the why 1107 00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,000 Speaker 1: am I able to say I picked this when this 1108 00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,240 Speaker 1: is the right one, when there's so many other things. 1109 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,840 Speaker 1: And so that was kind of what it did for me. 1110 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:14,800 Speaker 1: And then the paper that I have written UM for 1111 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,240 Speaker 1: my final paper, it was like we had to pick 1112 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,200 Speaker 1: a topic to to do um our found paper on 1113 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,720 Speaker 1: that we had started all all semesters. I picked, Hell, 1114 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm actually picked saying I think it was like Satan 1115 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:32,120 Speaker 1: or Hell. Yeah. So it's like I had to pick 1116 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:33,800 Speaker 1: a topic, and I think I picked the time. I'm 1117 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,920 Speaker 1: trying to remember why I picked that topic because I 1118 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: think that's where probably was the final frontier for me, 1119 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: is like Okay, yes, I can ask questions about why 1120 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,160 Speaker 1: they're suffering. Yes, I can question how do I know 1121 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,560 Speaker 1: if there's a God or not? Yes, I can question 1122 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,720 Speaker 1: how is there's so many so much diversity, and how 1123 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,440 Speaker 1: these beliefs are, how they people you know, have their 1124 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: religious beliefs. But it was still a bit of fear, 1125 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,000 Speaker 1: like okay, well, if you're wrong, you're going to go 1126 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: to hell. Right. That was the one thing like okay, well, 1127 00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,000 Speaker 1: just you know Pascal's wager is just believe it. Let's 1128 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,520 Speaker 1: go along with it. That to avoid hell because hell 1129 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,640 Speaker 1: would be the ultimate you know, that's the worst place 1130 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,560 Speaker 1: you can find yourself in for eternity, which is a 1131 00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: very long time. Right. So I'm like, okay, that was 1132 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,520 Speaker 1: the last thing that was holding me back and like 1133 00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: letting go of the beliefs, Like I was just so 1134 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,680 Speaker 1: terrified of the idea of like okay, I die, I'm 1135 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,440 Speaker 1: going to go to hell. And so by doing that paper, 1136 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:34,920 Speaker 1: like learning about how even the idea of hell wasn't 1137 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:39,080 Speaker 1: uniform even across these three religions that are all stem 1138 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: from the same place, their idea of what hell was 1139 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,480 Speaker 1: was very different. And so I'm like, how do I 1140 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,960 Speaker 1: even know that, like hell exists because you have these 1141 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,240 Speaker 1: people over here saying, okay, well it used to mean this, 1142 00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,440 Speaker 1: and like it used to mean a valley, and it 1143 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 1: was it was a metaphor, write a lot of Jewish stuff. 1144 00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,040 Speaker 1: It talks about the Bible being a metaphor and this 1145 00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,960 Speaker 1: and that. So I'm like, huh, so even you know, 1146 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,240 Speaker 1: even the idea of hell is not universally, there's no 1147 01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,520 Speaker 1: universal there's no universal consensus on what it is. And 1148 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,720 Speaker 1: so I think after kind of coming to that conclusion 1149 01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: that we don't know for sure, I think that just 1150 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: emotionally released me um to be able to like not 1151 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,640 Speaker 1: cling to the belief so much like I have to 1152 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: believe it, I have to believe it, I have to 1153 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,640 Speaker 1: believe it's I was fighting to believe it. I would say, 1154 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,200 Speaker 1: now what, I don't have to believe. I can be okay, um, 1155 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,360 Speaker 1: because we don't know, like there's so many different interpretation. 1156 01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:32,959 Speaker 1: I can just let all this belief and now hold 1157 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: onto it so much. Mm hmm. This concludes part one 1158 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 1: of episode one nine I Am a Black Atheist. Part 1159 01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,360 Speaker 1: two will be dropping next week, so please make sure 1160 01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,960 Speaker 1: to stay tuned and if you like what you hear it, 1161 01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,040 Speaker 1: please make sure to buy a girl of coffee by 1162 01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:57,080 Speaker 1: clicking the link in the shell Knows Blow. Until next time, everyone, Later,