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Speaker 1: He has already and they are both all the serious

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Speaker 1: as the massing of that the maning off that a

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Speaker 1: b ofy Mo.

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Speaker 2: And sis.

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Speaker 1: Honeys as white as the real and may as well

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Speaker 1: as Jesus stood Bess missing as the running on Marry

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Speaker 1: and six says it's lasts.

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Speaker 3: Okay, welcome.

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Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, twenty four December, twenty four December the Overler

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. It is our Christmas Eve special.

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Speaker 3: Love that song.

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Speaker 2: Ben Harnwell joins me as our co host slash host today.

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Speaker 2: So I'm still recover coming back strong from anfest. Ben,

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Speaker 2: thank you joining us live today from Rome. Tell me

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Speaker 2: about give me your sense. I loved I particularly love

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Speaker 2: and fond of the King's College Choir and all the

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Speaker 2: English music of Christmas, particularly during the holiday season. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of like high Victorian high Victorian Christmas Carols.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, Steve, and you.

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Speaker 5: Had the lessons and the carols and so many people

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Speaker 5: formerly that is the start of Christmas, and from that

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Speaker 5: point on, even the most pedants, the most pedantic people

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Speaker 5: in the world will wish for another merry Christmas.

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Speaker 4: At that point on.

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Speaker 5: It's not before, but after the lessons and carols from

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Speaker 5: King's College, Cambridge. That's when Christmas formally starts.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I often wonder the commercial side of Christmas taken over

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Speaker 2: so strongly in the United States, at least the run

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Speaker 2: up to Christmas, because they try to start it in

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Speaker 2: October or even before Thanksgiving. As soon as you get

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Speaker 2: Christmas Day, the Christmas carols go. We have a tradition

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Speaker 2: here at the show we play them afterwards. I mean,

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Speaker 2: when I was growing up as a kid, it didn't

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Speaker 2: end on Christmas Day. Christmas Day was kind of the midpoint.

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Speaker 2: You still we still you know, it did a lot

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Speaker 2: of Christmas stuff, even up to Little Christmas, you know, Epiphany.

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Speaker 2: But that seems to have stopped here in the United

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Speaker 2: States over the last couple of decades, where it just

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Speaker 2: kind of it's a hard stop. And is that the

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Speaker 2: same in Europe or does it go through more of

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Speaker 2: the Twelve Days of Christmas.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's still obviously sort of commercialized here in Europe,

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Speaker 5: probably less I would say in Italy than in my

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Speaker 5: beloved homeland. However it is it is obviously getting worse

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Speaker 5: and worse as I think that the practicing Christian element

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Speaker 5: of society fades out and the sense of belonging kicks in,

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Speaker 5: but without the actual substance of the faith to back

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Speaker 5: that up. And then then of course you grab onto

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Speaker 5: the nearest available thing. And that's the whole, the commercialization,

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Speaker 5: the tinsel and the trees and all the rest of it.

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Speaker 5: But you know, look up until Sunday, which is the

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Speaker 5: day before Christmas, fourth Sunday of Advent. It's really improper

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Speaker 5: to start celebrating Christmas before Beforechristmas Eve. So and really,

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Speaker 5: you know, you absolutely you start the cattles on Christmas

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Speaker 5: Eve Christmas Day, and then.

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Speaker 4: You carry them on up Epiphany.

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Speaker 5: That's that's the correct way of doing it, if you

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Speaker 5: are actually commemorating in your family and your community, even

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Speaker 5: in your own.

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Speaker 4: Heart, the incarnation of our Lord and saving Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: You know, when I was a kid, we didn't bring

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Speaker 2: the tree in until late afternoon on Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 3: That was tradition.

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Speaker 2: In fact that I only think we got the tree

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Speaker 2: until like the day before Christmas Eve. But we would

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Speaker 2: never bring in the tree to Christmas Eve. And it

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Speaker 2: was decorating the trees kind of the family tradition for

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Speaker 2: Christmas tree, even putting up the lights and everything like that.

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Speaker 2: Then we would go to midnight Mass and come back

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Speaker 2: and have a little celebration and then get up early

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Speaker 2: in the morning the crack of dawn and go at it.

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Speaker 2: But it was there was really Christmas Eve forward? Is

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Speaker 2: it to tell us about Christmas in Rome? You're there,

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Speaker 2: You're a transplanted Englishman. What's Christmas in Rome?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 5: Like everything in Italy, it's family orientated. It's the you

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Speaker 5: know from the cript from the Virgilia, which is Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 5: You have a huge so so many families will have

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Speaker 5: a larger dinner on Christmas Eve than they would have

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Speaker 5: on Christmas Day itself.

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Speaker 4: That sort of tends, and you find a lot of

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Speaker 4: people who will go to church even to midnight.

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Speaker 5: Mass on Christmas Eve, even though technically might not necessarily

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Speaker 5: start at midnight. It might be brought forward by an

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Speaker 5: hour or two depending on the parish. You go to

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Speaker 5: those and the churches will be full and there'll be

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Speaker 5: a lot of young people there, but that's trinically generally Sunday.

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Speaker 5: By Sunday, Steve, you've got a lot of young people

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Speaker 5: as well coming to church on Mass, to Mass on Sunday,

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Speaker 5: which is pretty much not the case in the UK

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Speaker 5: because Chris practical, it still has a large part to

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Speaker 5: play in life here, Steve, probably probably because the Vaticans

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Speaker 5: here that the home of the Catholic Church and the

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Speaker 5: Pope is really in and of himself, almost like a

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Speaker 5: secondary head of state. The President of Italy, the president

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Speaker 5: of the public, has a much minor role. So because

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Speaker 5: of the presence of that, the role of Catholicism, even

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Speaker 5: if it's even if it descends into a form of

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Speaker 5: popular paganism at times, it's still quite surprising the vibrant

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Speaker 5: where it isn't in the UK, which is so secular.

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Speaker 2: Now now it's had a with a war going on

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Speaker 2: in Israel and around the Middle East. Of course in

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Speaker 2: Bethlehem a very a very low key Christmas there. For

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Speaker 2: this is a second or third year in a row,

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Speaker 2: maybe even fourth year in a row. Is that not correct?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think February's coming up to the third year

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Speaker 5: anniversary February twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And so there's been in Bethlehem, it's been you know,

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Speaker 2: traditionally over shouldn't say traditionally, you know, ten twenty thirty years,

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Speaker 2: you're starting to get you've had more pilgrims go. I

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Speaker 2: know a lot of people from the US have gone

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Speaker 2: and tried to really been very moved by Christmas in Israel,

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Speaker 2: Christmas in Bethlehem, but that's been really shut down because

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Speaker 2: these wars.

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Speaker 5: Has it not?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it has it has, Steve.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, there's the whole of the Holy Land has descended

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Speaker 5: into a sort of a military state.

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Speaker 4: And I don't want to get into the politics of this.

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Speaker 5: At this time and give any suggestion of taking sides

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Speaker 5: on that, but the Christians have had a tough deal,

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Speaker 5: and not only since that the Hamas invasion on the

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Speaker 5: seventh of October of last year.

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Speaker 4: Steve Christians. You know, I know a lot of people

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Speaker 4: who've been going.

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Speaker 5: Especially recently, they've said that they're being spat at and they're.

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Speaker 4: Not being particularly welcome.

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Speaker 5: And that's not by the Palestinians, because of course there

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Speaker 5: is a proportion of the Palestinian community.

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Speaker 4: Which is Christian.

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Speaker 5: So there's there's a there's a there's a deeper story

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Speaker 5: going on in there in the Holy Land.

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Speaker 4: Whage doesn't really break through into the mainstream media.

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Speaker 2: Ben has got got some fascinating guests from Europe today

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Speaker 2: that he's going to address. Also tomorrow will be the

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Speaker 2: Combat History at Christmas. I think this is the twelfth

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Speaker 2: thirteenth to fourteenth year in a row that I've done this.

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Speaker 2: Starting at Brekbart Radio, Patrick k O'Donnell Raheem always does

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Speaker 2: Boxing Day for us. He's done it for the last

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Speaker 2: I don't know, three or four years for me over

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Speaker 2: at Breitbart Radio also, and then Dave Brat's gonna be

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Speaker 2: with me on Friday, maybe even again Saturday. We're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about the end of the year roll up

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Speaker 2: to our end of the year coverage on Monday and Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: But I think there we're trying to plan on having

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Speaker 2: a number of Christian voices talk about and of course

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Speaker 2: we're gonna be breaking news on all the politics. The

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Speaker 2: quite unseemly that they decided to drop the Matt Gates

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Speaker 2: situation over the over the Christmas holidays, But hey, you

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Speaker 2: got to do what you got to do. So Ben,

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Speaker 2: I know you watched Amfest from Afar. Give me your assessment.

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Speaker 2: I haven't had a chance to catch up with you.

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Speaker 2: I know we were texting a lot during the during

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Speaker 2: the event, and so what what's your takeaway from Amfest

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Speaker 2: To really.

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Speaker 3: Go through the end of the year.

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Speaker 4: It's great, Steve to see President Trump, and I saw your.

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Speaker 5: Speech also was fantastic. But it's great to see President Trump.

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Speaker 5: I think so this was his first if I'm not

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Speaker 5: quit me if i'm I think this was his first

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Speaker 5: speech since being elected president.

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Speaker 4: And it's good to see him being so.

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Speaker 5: Throwing down so far, so hard and in during the

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Speaker 5: whole of the conference's attention to the first twenty four

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Speaker 5: hours that will take place on January the twentieth, because

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Speaker 5: there had been you know, you see certain signs and

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Speaker 5: you don't quite know what the tenor of this second

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Speaker 5: administration is going to be. You can look, you can

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Speaker 5: look at the leaves on the teapot and try and

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Speaker 5: draw different patterns out of it. But the throwdown on

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Speaker 5: the deportations and everything else, I think was pretty good,

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Speaker 5: very very comfortably laped up. And it is interesting seeing Steve,

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Speaker 5: the world's media's attention to this and how they're starting

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Speaker 5: to adjust to the new relatives.

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Speaker 4: Specifically, Steve, I want to make this point.

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Speaker 5: Some of the more intelligent voices coming out with the

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Speaker 5: Democrats realized now that their strategy of just painting President

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Speaker 5: Trump and this show and anyone else associated with a

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Speaker 5: Magad movement of fascist is no longer going to work

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Speaker 5: because this movement has been making serious proposals. The regime

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Speaker 5: attempted to deflect from those proposals and theo's issues that

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Speaker 5: MAGA has been raising by just smearing, and the American

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Speaker 5: public are no longer.

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Speaker 4: Being convinced of that.

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Speaker 5: I would say they've never been convinced with that, by

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Speaker 5: the way, but watching anfest, watching the media coverage that

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Speaker 5: I think it's really you know, you look at that

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Speaker 5: that that rogue Cain of for example, the tweet that

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Speaker 5: he put out, look at the the in depth interview

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Speaker 5: they did on you in New Statesmen, which is the

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Speaker 5: intellectual magazine of the left, the historic magazine in the UK.

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Speaker 5: They're now saying they have to engage with what this

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Speaker 5: movement stands for on the terms, Steve, I think you'll

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Speaker 5: be piece to hear this on your terms that they're

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Speaker 5: now realizing they have ten years too late, but they

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Speaker 5: have to come and bring some serious proposals to the

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Speaker 5: table themselves, because the dismissing in terms of pejoratives is

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Speaker 5: part of the reason they were so definitively rejected.

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Speaker 4: In November.

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Speaker 3: Wow, incredible.

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Speaker 2: We'll get hopefully and get into a new statesman, Ben,

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Speaker 2: and I'll get into it even deeper the end of

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Speaker 2: the week. There one of the most intellectual magazines out

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Speaker 2: there in politics that are just piece about the war

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Speaker 2: room and about kind of our populous nationalists belief But

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Speaker 2: I don't want to say they've raised the surrender flag,

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Speaker 2: but they're clearly saying that we're kind of driving the discussion.

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Speaker 2: Will be very powerful, real quickly, Ben the who reported

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Speaker 2: this morning that President Trump's already got his team working

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Speaker 2: on immediate withdrawal on the afternoon of the twentieth of January.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be going through a whole laundry list

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Speaker 2: and kind of a drumbeat of what President I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do. But quickly, quick thoughts about that in your

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Speaker 2: favorite town, Geneva.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well I saw that. I think it was it

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Speaker 4: was a couple of days ago this this first broke

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Speaker 4: up into the press. Steve.

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Speaker 5: That was something else I think off the back of

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Speaker 5: anfest this declation first twenty four hours. Again coming back

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Speaker 5: to this point is this is putting the world, put

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Speaker 5: in the United States on alert that this administration means

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Speaker 5: business and one can only hope Steve that with all

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Speaker 5: of the w HI, the World Health Organization and the

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Speaker 5: middle finger that that will give to ted Ross will

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Speaker 5: be the start of many other withdwalls by America from

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Speaker 5: or the corruptive apparatus of the international rules based order.

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Speaker 4: And I would add on to this.

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Speaker 5: Point if I would like to see somehow And I

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Speaker 5: don't know if it's gonna make it easier if America.

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Speaker 4: Dwells or not, but I would like to see.

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Speaker 5: I'd like to you know, it's difficult because of diplomatic

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Speaker 5: community and the fact that its seat is in Switzerland.

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Speaker 5: But I want to know what ted Rowse was doing

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Speaker 5: back in the early days of this pandemic. What did

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Speaker 5: they know, when did they know it?

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Speaker 4: And when did they agree to start lying to the

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Speaker 4: American people.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hang on for a second and take a break.

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Speaker 2: we're gonna leave you with some great Christmas music. Ben

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Speaker 2: Harnwell will return after a short commercial break.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back, folks.

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Speaker 5: So I'm going to be taking over the hosting of

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Speaker 5: the rest of the show, and we've got.

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Speaker 4: A great show for the next hour forty five.

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Speaker 5: Some new guests, some old faces, and the way we're

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Speaker 5: going to do it is like this, Because tomorrow we're

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Speaker 5: celebrating Christmas Day.

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Speaker 4: I was thinking, what better way to do this than to.

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Speaker 5: Talk about our own private lives in one capacity and

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Speaker 5: also the wider public spell if we're to pick, I'm

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Speaker 5: going to ask the guests what to pick an example

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Speaker 5: of something that they most closely think was the action

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Speaker 5: of God acting in human affairs, and then and then

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Speaker 5: also the same question for themselves. I'm going to start

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Speaker 5: off with this, As I say, We've got some Catholics

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Speaker 5: on the show, some Protestants on the show. But I'm

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Speaker 5: going to start off with my answer to this, and

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Speaker 5: that's the end of time. I'm going to talk about

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Speaker 5: myself for the rest of the show. With regards to

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Speaker 5: the public aspect, I most consciously think I can see

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Speaker 5: the hand of God. When President Trump was shot in

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Speaker 5: the face. I think probably quite a few of the

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Speaker 5: guests might go for that one as well. Shut in

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Speaker 5: the face, just a few mini meters away from death.

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Speaker 5: We don't do it to do the gory counter factors

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Speaker 5: of how that might have played out, but I think

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Speaker 5: that was a direct supernatural event as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 4: With regards to my own personal life.

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Speaker 5: You know, I haven't really mentioned this that much on

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Speaker 5: the show that we did something back in much, but

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Speaker 5: I came to the conclusion of a number of legal

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Speaker 5: cases against me at three separate cases. But the criminal

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Speaker 5: cases after three or four years, ended in March March

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Speaker 5: the seventh, and I had been praying up until the

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Speaker 5: very end. The prosecution were trying to get me into

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Speaker 5: prison for a year for twelve months up until the

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Speaker 5: very moment the judge an autor sentence. Italy doesn't have

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Speaker 5: jewelries for most of ninety nine percent of its cases,

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Speaker 5: so it's simply dependent on the judge, and that was

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Speaker 5: obviously a big thing for.

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Speaker 4: Me, and I've been praying for that.

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Speaker 5: For four years really, And the consequence of playing every

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Speaker 5: day every morning and I still do my abit, I

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Speaker 5: go into the local church and start my day just

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Speaker 5: with a few prayers. But the consequence of that, folks,

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Speaker 5: is that by the time the sentence came around, even

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Speaker 5: though it could have been very bad for me personally,

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Speaker 5: I obviously prayed to be acquitted, but more than I

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Speaker 5: prayed to God to give me a sense of assurance

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Speaker 5: that things would be okay.

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Speaker 4: However it went and I did get back sense of assurance.

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Speaker 5: So this is like I'm just talking about me personally

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Speaker 5: in my own personal lives, but I'm very grateful to

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Speaker 5: God for that. And the reason I thought this would

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Speaker 5: be a topic to discuss here on our Christmas Eve special.

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Speaker 4: Is because Christianity, it's not really I.

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Speaker 5: Mean, it is a philosophy, but it's also a set

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Speaker 5: of religious beliefs, supernatural religious beliefs. And the point about

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Speaker 5: that is you have you can have the rules, and

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Speaker 5: you can say what you like about the rules.

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Speaker 4: You don't like them, or you like them.

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Speaker 5: I love them, but some people think they're a bit constraining,

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Speaker 5: But the point is is that the whole point, the

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Speaker 5: whole focus of God's revelation to mankind was incarnated here

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Speaker 5: in human history, in Besley Him. So Christianity is not

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Speaker 5: an abstract religion. It's a very concrete, particular religion.

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Speaker 4: And that's why I thought I.

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Speaker 5: Would ask all the friends I've asked under the joke

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Speaker 5: to that I know are Christian. So I thought this

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Speaker 5: would be a great way to talk about this with

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Speaker 5: the Warman passage, just to say how our lives have

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Speaker 5: been changed because of the very real presence of God.

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Speaker 5: My first guest then Ellen Kruger Fantine, editor of the

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Speaker 5: European Journal and old friends. She's been on quite a

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Speaker 5: few times when I was guest hosting over the four

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Speaker 5: month period.

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Speaker 4: Ellen, welcome back on to the show. Can I start

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Speaker 4: with you then? Please?

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Speaker 5: M just ask you, perhaps to give you your thoughts

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Speaker 5: on the ethnic question. Is there anything in the past

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Speaker 5: twelve months where you could say, yeah, I think this

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Speaker 5: was God acting in the affairs of man.

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Speaker 6: Him been Merry Christmas. Yes, absolutely, And even though I'm

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Speaker 6: the first guest, I thought maybe i'd get the first

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Speaker 6: crack at this question, but we do have the same answer.

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Speaker 6: That miraculous split second when Trump turned his head and

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Speaker 6: wasn't murdered in front of the world. That miraculous split

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Speaker 6: second is my pick, not just because it was saving

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Speaker 6: a man's life, but because of all of the things

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Speaker 6: that happened after that, including of course his election. And

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Speaker 6: I am based in Europe. I'm here in Vienna, Austria,

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Speaker 6: and there are ripple effects of the Trump election that

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Speaker 6: we're going to feel. I think we're already feeling here

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Speaker 6: in Europe. Certainly, he's got a chance to set things

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Speaker 6: right in America, but not just for America, for the world,

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Speaker 6: for peace, for stability and security across the world. I

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Speaker 6: think his election will also embolden, embolden European politicians and

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Speaker 6: finally take control over the massively, really frightening security situation. Obviously,

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Speaker 6: your viewers will know about the recent Christmas market attack

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Speaker 6: in Germany. In Mark Deeborg. There are twenty thousand people

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Speaker 6: demonstrating in Margdeborg about what happened and the alternative for

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Speaker 6: Germany the day they're the ones who are addressing this

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Speaker 6: this problem. So I think there's a glimmer of hope

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Speaker 6: I think Trump's selection really offers that.

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Speaker 5: You're very interesting that you that you tie in the

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Speaker 5: ripple effects of what happened in build Butler, Pennsylvania, the

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Speaker 5: ripple effects that you're seeing.

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Speaker 4: That we're seeing now in Europe.

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Speaker 5: Staying with Austria one moment, I mean, it's clear that

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Speaker 5: THEFDS has been given a great phillip recently, not not

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Speaker 5: only because of the market, the Magdeburg market catastrophe, massacre,

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Speaker 5: but also you know, mass throwing his weight behind and

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Speaker 5: tell me something. In Austria, however, the peer, the Freedom

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Speaker 5: Party would be the closest analog I think to the

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Speaker 5: AfD in Austria. Is there a similar momentum there?

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Speaker 4: Do you think? Can you see?

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Speaker 6: Well, certainly the Freedom Party the FPO did very very

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Speaker 6: well in the elections and in fact should be forming

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Speaker 6: a government, but instead it looks like it's going to

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Speaker 6: be what I like to call the Coalition of losers,

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Speaker 6: which is all the other parties who didn't do as

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Speaker 6: well as the FPO, because they've been basically firewalled out

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Speaker 6: of being able to form a government. So I don't

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Speaker 6: know what it's going to take for Austria to get

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Speaker 6: it together. I certainly hope that it doesn't take yet

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Speaker 6: another tragedy that the country's had several relating to violence

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Speaker 6: and mass migration, but that's the issue on everyone's minds.

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Speaker 5: Would you say that probably the FBI has a slightly

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Speaker 5: more difficult, slightly steep incline to overcome because the successive

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Speaker 5: Austrian governments haven't been as crazy as the successive German governments.

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Speaker 6: Well, I suppose, I suppose, so, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 6: if it takes being as bad as the coalition governments

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Speaker 6: we've seen in Germany, then that's what it takes. But

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Speaker 6: I would say that the coalition governments here in Austria

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Speaker 6: have been completely ineffective when it's come to security, certainly migration,

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Speaker 6: which are interrelated topics. Of course, I'm afraid that if

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Speaker 6: we don't see something extreme, nothing's going to change here. So, yes,

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Speaker 6: it's a it's a steeper incline, partly because we haven't

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Speaker 6: had a horrible tragedy.

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Speaker 4: We've got three minutes left, Ellen, I know that.

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Speaker 5: A couple of days ago I saw the statement on

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Speaker 5: the European Conservative that you're revamping both the print edition

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Speaker 5: but also the online edition. Must just say a bit

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Speaker 5: about the mission the work of the European Conservative. I

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Speaker 5: declare an interest folks that I do have a titular

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Speaker 5: post and the organic ram and I've absolutely delighted to

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Speaker 5: support it's doing fantastic work saying stuff that that very

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Speaker 5: few people are Just before, however, you just say that,

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Speaker 5: do you have anything to say about the second part

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Speaker 5: of the question about the presence of God in your

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Speaker 5: own life?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 6: Sure, I mean I actually it's somewhat related to talking

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Speaker 6: about the European Conservative, which is that it's been a

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Speaker 6: year of massive growth for the project and the presence

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Speaker 6: of God has been revealed in the people we've worked with. So,

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Speaker 6: because our mission really is about saving the West, saving

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Speaker 6: Western civilization, we've attracted good, selfless people who are in

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Speaker 6: it for the fight, in support of the common good,

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Speaker 6: and they are in it for the long haul, and

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Speaker 6: this year we've seen it more than ever.

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Speaker 3: So I think.

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Speaker 6: My answer is that in the faces of the people

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Speaker 6: who've been working with us, God has revealed of course,

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Speaker 6: because Christ infuses all of these things.

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Speaker 5: Beautiful response, just then quickly one minute, and then before

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Speaker 5: you go, just say quickly a few words then perhaps

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Speaker 5: about the revamp the website and where do people go,

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Speaker 5: and I strongly recommend that they do. They're putting out

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Speaker 5: you guys are putting out sort of great articles every

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Speaker 5: single day.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 6: So the project will have two divisions. Will have the

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Speaker 6: online division, which will continue with great news, commentary, analysis,

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Speaker 6: and then the print edition, which is where we started.

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Speaker 6: We combine art, beauty, culture and politics. We're going to

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Speaker 6: be growing. You can look for us. We'll have a

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Speaker 6: landing page on the Europeanconservative dot com website. Do follow

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Speaker 6: us on Twitter and Facebook. You can get all the

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Speaker 6: news about our updates and where to find new content

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Speaker 6: and find out about our next steps.

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Speaker 4: And the social media handles.

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Speaker 6: Allen, Yes, so we're at eurocon official on Facebook, on

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Speaker 6: Twitter excuse me, and you can just look for the

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Speaker 6: European Conservative on Facebook. We're also on getter European Conservative.

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Speaker 6: You can find us easily.

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Speaker 4: Ellen.

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Speaker 5: Fancy, many many thanks for coming on the show. Wish

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Speaker 5: you a very merry Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Speak you soon got this back in folk. So the

441
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 4: next gets a new friend of the war Room.

442
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 5: And Hoffmann, who is the director of the Observatory on

443
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 5: Intolerance and Discrimination against Christians in Europe.

444
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 4: Now just to say a bit of.

445
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 5: A bit about the Observatory, Okay, When I worked in

446
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 5: the Oupian.

447
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 4: Parliament over fifteen years ago.

448
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 5: When I first worked there, a guy called David fields

449
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 5: End who was basically the dean of all the pro

450
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 5: life lobbyists in the European Parliament.

451
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 4: He was. He once told me. I asked him, who's

452
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 4: you know what he thinks about our efforts.

453
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 5: Because he'd been there for decades, and he said to

454
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 5: me the gold standard for him, what was good Room Kugler,

455
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 5: who was then representing the World Youth Likes she's now

456
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 5: in the Austrian we're talking about Austria just a members ago.

457
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 4: She's now a member of Parliament in Austria.

458
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 5: But he said, but David fields And told me that

459
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 5: it was good Room and the book fact she did

460
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 5: that He thought.

461
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 4: That she was the most the most effective.

462
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 5: Advocate for life and all the affiliated cultural issues that

463
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 5: he'd ever seen working in the Oppian partment.

464
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 4: Gudrun then then left.

465
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 5: The World Youth Lines and she founded this Observatory, which

466
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 5: is a great organ found it with her husband Martin.

467
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 4: Great.

468
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 5: Work detailing the persecution of Christians around the world. So

469
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 5: Annie Hoffmann, welcome onto the show. You're now the director

470
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 5: of the Observative, tell us a bit if you would,

471
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 5: for our American audience. Why is there a need for

472
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 5: an observatory against intolerance and discrimination against Christians?

473
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you so much Ben for having me on

474
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 7: the show. And yes, indeed, Observatory was founded almost fifteen

475
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 7: years ago when many people did not yet see the

476
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 7: problem of discrimination against Christians, not just around the world,

477
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 7: but specific in Europe. So the Observatory just focuses its work,

478
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 7: which is mainly documenting cases, documenting what is going on

479
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 7: in terms of intolerance and discrimination against Christians in Europe,

480
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 7: and we try to provide reliable and classifiable data on

481
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 7: what is happening. So we're collecting on the one hand,

482
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 7: hate crimes, which means mainly arsen attacks, vandalism, attacks on churches,

483
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 7: but also attacks on Christians on persons, and then on

484
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 7: the other hand, the sphere of discrimination it can be

485
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 7: that can be at work, that could be against Christian

486
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 7: politicians recently, also deep banking of Christian organization is really

487
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 7: broad field. We want to make these problems visible and

488
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 7: show the structural problems behind them and also in which

489
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 7: areas religious freedom is being limited in Europe.

490
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 5: For meting, because I think you guys will basically the

491
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: first to come along and coin the phrase Christianophobia, right

492
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 5: mirrored on Islamophobia, which is part and parts sort of

493
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 5: contemporary political discourse. You'll find a lot of politicians and

494
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 5: media pundits talking about Islamophobia, but until you guys came along,

495
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: very few people spoke about Christianophobia, which is this obviously

496
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 5: the same concept of discrimination against people because they're Christian.

497
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 5: For again, from an American audience, perhaps you want you

498
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 5: want to say something about that is actually a thing

499
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 5: here in Europe, just to give a perhaps a few

500
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 5: examples of what some Christians have been facing here in Europe,

501
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 5: which you know, it's not, it's not, it's not the.

502
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 4: Other end of the world.

503
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 5: To find Christians being persecuted for their faith here in

504
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 5: Europe ought to be extremely alarming.

505
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 7: Yes, indeed, so many people assume that because Christians are

506
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 7: a majority in Europe means they cannot face discriination, so

507
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 7: kind of discrimination is only for minorities. That's what a

508
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 7: lot of people think.

509
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: And this is why this.

510
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 7: Concept of discrimination against Christians is really something that people

511
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 7: don't easily grasp. And we tried to make this visible

512
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 7: and as you were asking for examples, it's really a

513
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 7: broad range, but something that stood out to me most

514
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 7: in the last year where several cases of Christians who

515
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 7: for expressing their moral convictions ask Christians either lost their jobs,

516
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 7: their political careers, or even we're facing court trials. And

517
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 7: one of the most shocking, one of the well known

518
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 7: cases in this area is the case of the form

519
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 7: of Finnish Minister of Interior and also current member of Parliament,

520
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 7: Baby Rossanin, who was accused of hate speech after tweeting

521
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 7: a Bible verse and criticizing her own Lutheran church about

522
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 7: sponsoring the Helsinki Pride parade, and she just kind of

523
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 7: the tweet asked the question, how do you think this

524
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 7: sponsoring the pride parade is in line with what the

525
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 7: Bible teaches about this? And then she was being prosecuted

526
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 7: for that, and that case was thankfully also picked up

527
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 7: by the US International Commission for Religious Freedom as one

528
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 7: example of how European governments are increasingly targeting believers for

529
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 7: peacefully expressing their religious views which are kind of counter

530
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 7: the mainstream views, but not in any way of inciting

531
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 7: to violence or hatred, but really just Christian saying this

532
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 7: is what I believe. I believe God created human beings

533
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 7: as male and female for each other. And by just

534
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 7: saying that it can, yeah, in these extreme cases even

535
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 7: lead to a court case, but also in the job

536
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 7: it can have immensory percussions.

537
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 5: I think it's important to underline that this was very

538
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 5: very clear. I mean, that is happening in America. I

539
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 5: think not as to a great degree as in occupied Europe.

540
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: But this is one of the what ellen.

541
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: Fantine mentioned early on in the show, the ripple effects

542
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 5: of the Trump presidency. I think that Donald Trump's going

543
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 5: to be in the White House for the next four

544
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 5: years is going to put a block, a total block

545
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 5: on any progress towards this militant, intolerant intolerance of Christians

546
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 5: in America, and hope it will actually start pulling it

547
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 5: back a little bit, pulling the culture back a bit

548
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 5: to where it used to be. Tell me something, Anya,

549
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 5: his grandma, to all of our guests, is there anything

550
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 5: in the past year that you might look at and think, yeah,

551
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 5: I think.

552
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 4: This was this was God working in human events.

553
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 7: Yes, indeed, I mean one of the very obvious examples

554
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 7: has already been mentioned but if I think about my

555
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 7: sphere about persecution of Christians and intolerance against Christians, I'm

556
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 7: just thinking of something very recent. Only last week, after

557
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 7: two and a half years of court trial, and mother

558
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 7: of five and a Christian, her name is Roger, was

559
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 7: acquitted in Nigeria for alleged blasphemy after and this is

560
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 7: super shocking, sharing a video of a girl who was

561
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 7: slaughtered linked for her Christian beliefs in school. And she

562
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 7: shared that video criticizing what has happened, and was then

563
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 7: accused of blasphemy and now finally last week, through a

564
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 7: really major legal win, she got free and she is

565
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 7: now in a safe place. And this is one of

566
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 7: the ways where I see this just one example how

567
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 7: in these cases sometimes also in the legal sphere, there

568
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 7: can be immense victories through God's help.

569
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 5: Incredible and anything in your personal life that you might

570
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 5: want to share with the warming posse.

571
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, One thing that really encouraged me personally tremendously during

572
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 7: this year was we work a lot with students. We've

573
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 7: produced a documentary called self Censored, which talks about Christian

574
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 7: university students all across Europe. They are in a conversation

575
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 7: with them one and an there and talk about how

576
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 7: to share their faith in an hostile environment towards a

577
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 7: Christian belief that they're all experiencing. And during these conversations

578
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 7: with different students that I've had following up on this project,

579
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 7: I was so encouraged a lot of them. Once you

580
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 7: start talking about this phenomenon of self censorship and about

581
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 7: being afraid to even say you're a Christian in a

582
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 7: public sphere out of fear this will have negative consequences.

583
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 7: Once you start talking about this, a lot of young

584
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 7: people say, oh, I always thought I'm the only one,

585
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 7: but now I realized there's more people out there who

586
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 7: have the same problem, and I can actually we can

587
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 7: actually talk about it together, and we can kind of

588
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 7: break through the spiral of silence and start talking about

589
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 7: the belief, start raising questions about current worldview that we

590
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 7: don't find is helpful for the human person, and they

591
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 7: really find the courage to speak out. And that's something

592
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 7: that for me is really a huge sign of hope

593
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 7: for our time.

594
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, great response, Annyel. Can you tell me something. How

595
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: are the intitut.

596
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 5: Futional Christian churches, the Catholic Church specifically, are they How

597
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 5: are they with what you're doing. Are they aware of it?

598
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 5: And obviously they were. I think bern is given a

599
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 5: bit of support of the But generally do you find

600
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 5: that the institutional Christian churches and I.

601
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 4: Am specifically asking about the Catholic Church, are really giving

602
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: you the support that this cause deserves.

603
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 7: So, in general, we are an independent NGO. We are

604
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 7: not funded by a church of any kind, so we

605
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 7: always have this challenge of fund raising through private donors.

606
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 7: But in terms of support when it comes to the issue,

607
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 7: I do see that there is a big support for example,

608
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 7: from the Commet, say, the Bishop's Conference at the European

609
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 7: Union that we closely work together with, who are very

610
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 7: grateful for our documenting work. Also the Holy See obviously

611
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 7: there they are represented at the OEC, at different international organizations,

612
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 7: and they do use our work. They use our report

613
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 7: to just get this overview and have the data to

614
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 7: work with them dan to find responses or to raise

615
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 7: the issue and really raise awareness about this.

616
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 5: So talking about the reports that you do, how many

617
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 5: times had it come out to Yeah, I think one

618
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 5: came out of like a week ago, didn't it ten days?

619
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 4: I seem to remember. Tell me about how often it

620
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 4: comes out and the sorts of things that people can

621
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 4: find in there.

622
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 7: So our report is published every year, always on November

623
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 7: fifteen or sixteen, around the day of International Tolerance, and

624
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 7: the idea of this report is to really make visible

625
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 7: what I've just described, these areas of discrimination of intolerance

626
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 7: against Christians, and we really try to give an overview.

627
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 7: Our report has three sections. The first is on hate

628
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 7: crimes or specific government data, police data on how many

629
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 7: churches have been attacked in which country. The second chapter

630
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 7: about discrimination against Christians in the work field, in the

631
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 7: public sphere, as I said, with banking and all these

632
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 7: different issues. And then our third part of our reporter

633
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 7: is about religious freedom or legal restrictions that Christians are

634
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 7: facing or that I have repercussions on Christians who want

635
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 7: to exercise their faith. And there we do legal analysis

636
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 7: of different things happening in Europe, and I really recommend

637
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 7: to take a look to get this overview, and for

638
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 7: all those who some are working in the field or

639
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 7: concerned themselves, I think it's very important for us to

640
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 7: know in which ways different laws affect religious freedom and

641
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 7: how to raise a warness and maybe call upon members

642
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 7: of Parliament or the responsible institution governments to really be

643
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 7: careful to save god religious freedom when making new legislation.

644
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 4: And we've got just two into that. Just you mentioned

645
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: banking there. Can you just tell.

646
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 5: The war and posse are people in occupied you of

647
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 5: being de banked because of their Christian faith.

648
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 7: So we've had a few chrisis now Christian organization. Few

649
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 7: are speaking about it because it's always a very sensitive issue,

650
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 7: but those who do share about it say that because

651
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 7: either of sharing Christian views. There was a pro life

652
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 7: organization in Sweden last year who face deep banking. There

653
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 7: were several Christian cos who are working in the global

654
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 7: South who do missionary work or support Christians persecuted Christians

655
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 7: around the world who are struggling with this because the

656
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 7: anti money laundering regulations have been tightened and banks are

657
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 7: very right now to work with organizations who work with

658
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 7: a break. But there's also this world review issues apparently

659
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 7: that Christians say because their organization is very obvious either

660
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 7: involved in pro life work or in some other pro

661
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 7: family work, they have faced issues. Sometimes the bank doesn't

662
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 7: admit it, but it's a very sudden cut and it

663
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 7: just says you did the organization doesn't align with the

664
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 7: ethics of that corporation. So these things seem to be

665
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 7: on the rise, and we're trying to look into this morning.

666
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 7: We think it's a very importan and issue to keep

667
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 7: on track on.

668
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 4: It's a huge issue.

669
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 5: My own organization, the Digniti Artists Humane Institute, was deep

670
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 5: banked here in Italy, but three or four years ago.

671
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 5: We won't give it any reason, any explanation whatsoever, just

672
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 5: given up a functory.

673
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 4: Email saying that our bank account was being closed.

674
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 5: And by the way, I think we had a couple

675
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 5: of hundred yours in that account. They never gave it

676
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 5: to us, They shut down that account, pocketed.

677
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 4: The money and there's really very little that you can

678
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 4: do about it.

679
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 5: And I'm very glad that you're bringing this to people's

680
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 5: attentions so quickly.

681
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 4: And you know, where do people go twenty seconds?

682
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 5: Where do people go to learn more about the Observatory

683
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 5: on Intolerance and Discrimination against Christians and.

684
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 7: Euro Our website is Intolerance against Christians dot eu and

685
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 7: there you can find our recent cases. Our publications are reports,

686
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 7: but we are also on social media Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

687
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 4: It's at oi.

688
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 7: Duck Europe, which is the abbreviations or I d Acrook there.

689
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 7: You can find us everywhere on social media.

690
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 4: As well, and often many thanks that made Christmas to

691
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 4: Goblins Welcome back folks.

692
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 5: Who were particularly delighted to introduce our next guest. He's

693
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 5: been on the show quite a few times over the past,

694
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 5: yet also when I was guest hosting past to John

695
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 5: arm and True Cruse, Senior Pastor, John, you always had

696
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 5: this ability to infuse everyone whenever you come on the show,

697
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 5: and I know you're a great hit with the warm

698
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 5: IMPOSSI I'm going to cut in straight into my two

699
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 5: questions to you. If you could pick an event over

700
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 5: the course of the last year which you think you

701
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 5: can say, I think this was God acting in the

702
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 5: affairs of man.

703
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 8: You know, I can't overlook what happened on July thirteenth,

704
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 8: as a deranged human being sought to snub and take

705
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 8: out the life of now President Donald J.

706
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 3: Trump. When you think about that, the Bible tells.

707
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 8: Us that the heart of the king is in the

708
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 8: hands of the Lord, and he turns it into whatever

709
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 8: direction that he desires. We found out on July thirteenth

710
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 8: that not only does God turn the hearts of kings,

711
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 8: but he also turns the heads of kings. President Trump

712
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 8: turned his head at the right time, avoiding avoiding a

713
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 8: catastrophic incident. Only Almighty God can do that. God turns hearts,

714
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 8: but he also turns heads. And I believe that God

715
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 8: has ordained this time for him to lead this country.

716
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 8: You know, I was just in Phoenix, Arizona for the

717
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 8: Amfest event under Turning Point USA, and President Trump walked

718
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 8: up to the microphone in the beginning and he said

719
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 8: that today, now more than ever, we want to say

720
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 8: things like Merry Christmas. You know, in the past, many

721
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 8: presidents Obama, Biden, potentially Harris didn't want to say Merry Christmas.

722
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 8: But we now have a president who's not afraid to

723
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 8: say that. I believe that President Trump has been ordained

724
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 8: for God and by God for such a time.

725
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 3: As this.

726
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 5: Perfect response past to John, anything from your personal life

727
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 5: that you think that you're want to share with us

728
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 5: to which you're particularly grateful to God for.

729
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: There's so many things that come to mind. Number One,

730
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 3: I'm thankful that.

731
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 8: Over the course of this year, as I've traveled to

732
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 8: now sixteen different school board stops this year, but a

733
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 8: total of eighteen states in total, I'm thankful for my

734
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 8: wife who held down the home, who took care of

735
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 8: the children, who made it easy for me to go

736
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 8: into transition and to do all of the work that

737
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 8: God has called me to do. For my children who

738
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 8: have stood by me as well, and for many of

739
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 8: my unders and supporters who have donated to my work

740
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 8: through I Know Good dot Us. I'm thankful for turning

741
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 8: point in usaying doctor Bob, who has come alongside me

742
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 8: as well to support my efforts in this national campaign

743
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 8: to fight against woke tyrants at school board meetings all

744
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 8: around the country. We're fighting against gender theory, queer theory,

745
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 8: and critical race theory. And we have the opportunity to defund,

746
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 8: to defund the Department of Education and to send resources

747
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 8: back to the state and to protect our children.

748
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 3: I am gratefully and amazingly thankful for them.

749
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 4: Pastor John.

750
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 5: Tomorrow's Christmas Day and the world will either recognize or

751
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 5: commemorate or play along with the commemoration of the birth

752
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 5: of our Lord and say with Jesus Christ in the

753
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 5: general political battle, and I know I think we should.

754
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: We should. The same view that the political battles a.

755
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 5: We have here on earth is basically a reflection of

756
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 5: what's going on in the wider spiritual battle.

757
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 4: You know, a Feasian six twelve and all all the

758
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 4: rest of it.

759
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 5: But what would you just say, just in a couple

760
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 5: of minutes, what would you just say, how do you

761
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 5: tie the incarnation of God himself to the greater political

762
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 5: battle that we're fighting here in the secular world.

763
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 8: Well, I'm telling people all around this country, and I

764
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 8: said this in Phoenix, that the election is over, but

765
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 8: the rapture, the coming of Christ is pending. And so

766
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 8: we have much work to do. But we cannot overlook

767
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 8: the reason for this season. The Bible tells us in

768
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 8: John through sixteen, for God so loved the world that

769
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 8: he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever I believed

770
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 8: on him might not perish but have everlasting life. He

771
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 8: gave us the ultimate gift, and that gift is available

772
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 8: for anyone, regardless of your past, regardless of the things

773
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 8: that you've done.

774
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 3: Christ is for you.

775
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 8: And so we can take soul us in that message,

776
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 8: knowing that the birth of Christ is what brings true

777
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 8: liberty and freedom, freedom from the pain of death, freedom

778
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 8: from damnation, and access to Almighty God.

779
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 4: Father John ninety excuse me two minutes, would you just

780
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 4: would you kind of lead us in prayer? It's Christmas Eve.

781
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 4: Would you lead us in prayer and give us a blessing?

782
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 8: Yes, Lord, your word tells us that righteousness exalts a nation,

783
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 8: but sin is a reproach towards any people. You also

784
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 8: say in your word that you are coming back for

785
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 8: a church without a spot or wrinkle. So God, we

786
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 8: know today that you care for us, you're concerned about us,

787
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 8: you love us, and that you want to send your

788
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 8: redemption upon this nation. Mankind has rejected you, but God,

789
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 8: we believe that there is revival yet upon this land.

790
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 8: We pray for eyes to be open, for hearts to

791
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 8: be tender, and for people to understand the significance of

792
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 8: this season.

793
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 3: We thank you, O, God, for smiling upon our nation.

794
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 8: And given us a president that will soon take office

795
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 8: on January twentieth of twenty twenty five, who has the

796
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 8: mindset to do things that uplift the word of God

797
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 8: and that speak clearly to the thing that you're most

798
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 8: concerned about. We thank you when we bless you for

799
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 8: this time to spend with our family and friends. We

800
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 8: pray that you will be with us keepers in Jesus name,

801
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 8: we pray.

802
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 3: Amen.

803
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 4: Amen, Father John, that's very very kind of you.

804
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 5: Before you bounce. Where do people go on social media

805
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 5: to stay in touch with your interventions.

806
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 8: Yes, they can go to my YouTube channel. It's at

807
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 8: r e v w U Truth. That's rev Wu Truth

808
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 8: at r e v w U Truth. Follow me there,

809
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 8: and I appreciate your.

810
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 5: Support, Father John. I'm in truth with Senor. Thank you

811
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 5: very much as always for coming on the show and

812
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 5: sharing your particular unique spiritual insights with us as we

813
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 5: contemplate the political events on a day to day basis.

814
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 4: I take this moment to wish you of a merry Christmas.

815
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 4: Thank you, barth to John, thank you, stay with you,

816
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 4: Thank you, stay with us, folks. We've got a cracked

817
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 4: hour coming up just after this short break.

818
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 5: We've got Jenny Holland, We've got and Bob moynihan and

819
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 5: Patrick k o'donnald as well, answering the same sorts of

820
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 5: questions as to the presence and active role of God.

821
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 4: In our lives. Stand by, folks, and we're back into

822
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 4: us under this short break. Don't go away. The