WEBVTT - Too Much Space: Astronauts, NASA, SpaceX, Blue Origin, and the future of space technology - Lab 086 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:10.520 I'm TT and I'm Zukiah and this is Dope Labs. 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.120 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.480 science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.480 The last time we were together in person was in Boston. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:28.680 Yeah, Boston is always a good time. 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.400 Yes, But my friend always wants to get to the 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:36.239 airport two minutes before the boarding door closes, and I 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:37.199 cannot do that. 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.839 I am a two hours before the fly. 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.640 No. No is your sense of adventure if we're going by plane, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.960 training automobile, I like a side shot of adrenaline. Please, 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.000 you know I don't need that. I'm trying to relax 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.320 on my travel. She want to run through the airport. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.279 I cannot do it. I can't. But what blew me 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.160 that day was that my flight, even though we got 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.320 there at a reasonable time, was delayed to you got 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.120 there too early, and now you thought you had a 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:03.360 two hour delay, now you have four. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.440 I thought I was going to cry. 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.240 I hate when that happens, you know, a delay. I 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.440 feel like you're so close to your destination, and every 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.440 time it make you feel like Tom Hanks and castaway, 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.280 like you just abandoned at the airport right right. Being 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.720 stuck anywhere that is not my house, my home, my abode, 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:25.520 Mikasa will have me. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:26.280 Losing my mind. 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:32.880 You be spiraling at four k. Absolutely, You're not the 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.120 only person that feels that way though, because you talked 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.920 about being abandoned in the airport. But a lot of 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.000 people are upset about astronauts that have been in space 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.480 that are supposed to have been back a very long 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:44.959 time ago. 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.960 Oh girl, hold that thought. Let's get into the recitation. 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.800 Okay, So what do we know? Tt We know that 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.640 there are two astronauts up in space and they were 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.760 supposed to be back already. They've been up there for like, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:04.640 I think it's more than six months at this point. 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.680 We also know that being in space for any amount 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.440 of time is hard on the body. 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:10.760 Yeah, and from. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.880 Our last episode on space, we know that commercial spaceflight 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.440 is becoming a bigger and bigger industry. Yes, President Elon 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.120 Musk has its own space business. 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:26.000 This varies, yes, Okay, So what do we want to know? 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.280 I would know why those astronauts were up there in 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.280 the first place. So how did they get up there, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:32.840 why are they up there? How did they get stuck? 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.760 And what are we doing to get them back. These 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.000 are very important questions and I want to know what 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.880 happens to your body after being in space for that 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.480 much time. And a lot has happened in the world 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.320 since our last episode on commercial space flight, but a 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.640 lot has happened in that industry specifically. So have there 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:55.919 been any new regulations because it was the wild Wild 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.040 West or the wild wild Space the last time we 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.440 talked about it, And where's that's in the equation? And 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.120 are they even gonna still be around to be in 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.720 the equation? You know, Oh, the jury's still out. There's 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.240 also a lot of talk about Mars, and I just 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.320 want to know, like what's good, what's good with Mars? 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.160 Like why are we even targeting Mars? I think these 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:25.000 are a good starting one thousand questions. So for this episode, 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.720 we're bringing back our friend, space historian doctor Jordan Beim. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.119 Some things have changed with Jordan since the last time 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:31.600 we spoke. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.440 I'm still here at the University of Chicago. Since the 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.920 last time that we chatted, I've become a professor here now, 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.160 which is Gratus Creations. 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:40.720 Thank you. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.920 Yeah, do you still miss my home country Canada? But 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.480 I'm you know, still making a go of it down here. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.440 We all miss Canada right now. We all want to go. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.720 We want to go. So first we need a little 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.720 background on these astronauts. Their names are Sunita Sunny Williams 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:02.640 and Barry Butch Wilmore. They are both former US Navy captains. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.760 Sunni was selected as a NASA astronaut in nineteen ninety 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:08.360 eight and has flown on two other missions to space. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.480 She even held the female record for most spacewalk time 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.200 until twenty seventeen. Butch was selected as a NASA astronaut 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.480 in two thousand and served as commander of Expedition forty two. 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.719 It seems like this is definitely not their first radio right, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.520 So what was the mission this time? 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.880 So they were test flying a new type of spacecraft 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.719 called the Boeing Starliner, which had a lot of problems 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.520 in development, and they were the first humans to try 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.280 and give it a flight, and they made it to 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.159 the ISS, but there were problems getting there that gave 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.400 NASA pause about whether they wanted to risk them coming 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.240 back on that craft. So what they opted to do 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.960 was to just have them join the crew that is 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.960 on the ISS, called Crew nine, and to come back 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:56.360 basically on their regular scheduled return vehicle, which is a 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:57.839 SpaceX Dragon capsule. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.760 That was the plan, but it didn't turn out that right. 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.200 I am really scared for my friends Sunni and but 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:05.880 but should I. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.359 Be so for this? I have been putting a riff 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.960 on the famous line from Apollo thirteen and saying, Houston, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.120 we have a fake problem. So those astronauts are not stranded. 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.039 They are not stuck in space. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.400 Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, say that again. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.200 Those astronauts are not stranded. They are not stuck in space. 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.279 Since September there has been a SpaceX capsule doted the 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.480 ISS with two seats on it for them. Now, it 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.240 was a little weird that they were not able to 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.560 return on the test vehicle that they were test flying, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.000 and that their trip has been extended from eight days 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.440 to you know, eight months plus, But the situation up 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.760 there pretty much normal for them. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.640 That's not what we've been hearing. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.359 What you're hearing from the political leadership right now about 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.240 them being abandoned, about them being needing rescue. You know, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.680 all of that is giving a false sense of danger, 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.920 a false sense of risk, and it's putting a false 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.039 smear of failure upon NASA, which is not actually the case. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.800 So the way I've been thinking about it is, imagine 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.239 you're at a train station and you've got a ticket 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.760 for the train. The train is there waiting for you, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.039 but it's not leaving just yet. It's leaving in an hour. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.840 Are you stranded at that station? Are you in need 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.040 of rescue? No, You're just waiting for the next scheduled departure. 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.159 Jordan. Now I have some follow up questions because there's 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.120 a delay and then there's eight months, you know, so 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.480 I'm curious about how often this happens, and is this 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.159 par for the course. Are people having these kind of 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.560 delays up there in space or is it typically a 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.240 couple days or a couple of weeks. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.160 So it's not that their train has been delayed, it's 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.320 that they're taking a different train that leaves later, and 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.560 that is totally normal. That's regular scheduled crew transfers from 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.799 the ISS. So crews go and come to the ISS 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.520 in regular increments that last for about six or seven months, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.200 and Butch Wilmore and Sonny Williams are just waiting for 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.280 that next increment to conclude so that they can come 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.479 back to Earth with those two other astronauts on that 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.400 normal scheduled return. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.080 Are there risk to be in there for ameleass because 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.200 if I only pack my bags and I brought snacks 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:06.560 for like two days. 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.200 I don't have enough underwear for that. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:13.400 Okay, same there are crude resupply missions that are constantly 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.880 going to the ISS, so they have tons of supplies 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.000 up there. They are not running out of food or 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.880 clothes or anything like that. I listened to an interview 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.040 with them on the ISS just five days ago, and 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.280 they sounded totally fine, totally normal, just like any other 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.240 crew on the ISS. The thing to remember is that 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.760 Butch Wilmore and Sonny Williams are veteran NASA astronauts. This 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.520 is not a new or unfamiliar place for them. They 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.480 are just an integrated, regular part of the crew. They're 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.200 doing science experiments, they're performing spacewalks to do maintenance up there. 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.000 They're in good spirits, they're professionals. Part of astronaut training 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.600 is how to deal with contingencies, how to deal with 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:50.400 the unexpected. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.680 What impacts are there on your body when you go 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.800 to space and being there for an extended amount of time, 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.280 Do the effects compound. Does it get worse the longer 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.520 you're out there? So what can we expect for these 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.520 two astronauts when they get back physically? 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:08.920 Yeah, this is a question a lot of people have, 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.600 like is it safe to actually extend their stay for 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.160 that long from eight days to perhaps eight months or longer. 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.760 And the answer is it's actually well within the known 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.680 lengths of stays on the ISS. Humans have stayed on 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.400 the ISS for over a year. There are known changes 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.320 to the body that are caused by the microgravity environment, 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.880 the zero G weightless environment on the ISS, and that 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.720 includes things like muscle atrophy and bone loss and sometimes 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.880 changes to the eyeball that can involve vision problems when 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.640 returning to Earth. But these are well understood and they 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.880 are mitigated through things like working out every day on 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.240 board the ISS. They have a treadmill up there, they 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.280 have resistance equipment that they all use regularly to mitigate this. So, 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.040 while yes, some astronauts do have some trouble coming back 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.079 when they get back to Earth, they are in the 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.880 very capable hands of NASA's medical team. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.160 So you're basically saying this is a walk in the park, 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:05.120 But why does this still feel so spooky ky. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.040 We are sort of fixated on this story because of 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:13.080 the word stranded or stuck in space, and there is 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.760 this sort of cultural imaginary of the stranded astronaut. Right 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.600 we all know the movie The Martian Matt Damon Stuck 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.600 on Mars. There are other movies too that deal with 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.040 stranded astronauts. In nineteen sixty eight, right before the Apollo 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.520 eleven moon landing, there was a big blockbuster movie called 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.920 Marooned about a crew of astronauts stuck in Earth orbit. 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.440 And even before that, there was a movie called Robinson 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.800 Crusoe on Mars, which you can imagine what that's like. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.520 And there's even urban legends too, like from the early 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.760 days of the space program in the early nineteen sixties, 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.160 there was this myth about the lost cosmonauts, and this 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.280 was the idea that Yuri Gagarin wasn't actually the first 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.599 human in space, but the Soviet Union had tried to 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.319 launch humans before, but they had died in orbit and 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.200 their missions had been covered up and kept secret. These, 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.840 of course were total fabrications, urban legends as part of 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.840 the Cold War, but they endure in our minds, and 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.320 together with those pop culture imaginaries, they sort of frame 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.600 what's happening on the ISS right now in a particular way. 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.719 So basically you're saying, we all have way too much imagination. 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.079 We're watching these sci fi movies, and you know what, 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.040 as you were saying, especially when you brought up The Martian, 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.679 I just finished listening to Project Hill Mary, which was 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.760 written by Andy Were who also did wrote The Martian, 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:29.840 and so I was thinking all of these things the 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.800 entire time. I'm listening to the audiobook, and I'm like, Oh, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.840 this's got to be what's happening to my two astronauts 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.360 that are stranded, not what's happening at all. 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.280 No space propaganda, yes, but there is. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.640 There are historical, like real life examples of times where 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.880 astronauts have had their stays extended due to remarkable circumstances. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.679 The most famous of these occurred in nineteen ninety one 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.880 nineteen ninety two, and this was a Soviet cosmonaut called 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.360 Sergei Kerkhlev, who was on the Mirror Space station when 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:04.280 the Soviet Union dissolved, and because of the political instability 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.160 and the lack of funding, he actually had to stay 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.320 up there for a couple extra one hundred days, so 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:11.800 I think he stayed for three hundred days in total, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.559 almost a whole year, and he left a citizen of 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.360 the Soviet Union and returned a citizen of a new country, 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.920 the Russian Federation. Now, the other example that comes to 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.880 mind is in the aftermath of the tragic loss of 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.040 the Space Shuttle Columbia in two thousand and three, there 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.800 were astronauts on board the International Space Station whose plan 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.520 was to come home on the next Space Shuttle. Of course, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.520 NASA grounded the entire Shuttle fleet while they tried to 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.439 figure out what went wrong to cause the loss of Columbia, 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.240 and those astronauts had to have their stay on the 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.640 IS extended about fifty or sixty days. They ended up 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.360 coming back on a Russian Soyuz spacecraft which was attached 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.120 to the ISS as part of normal operations. Now, the 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.160 funny thing is one of those astronauts, Don Pettitt, is 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.680 actually on board the ISS right now, so this is 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.320 sort of the second time he has dealt with a 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:06.080 sort of unexpected extension of some crew members on the ISS. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.959 If I saw Don on the ISS, I would say, 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.360 I'm not going up there. Bad luck. It seems like 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.520 something's going on whenever Europe there. It seems like things 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.800 are always changing. You know, you've basically diffused this panic 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.360 in our minds at least, and I'm excited for you 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.520 to relieve some of the stress for some of our 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.520 listeners too. I'm wondering if you have more good news 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.559 for us. So, the last time you were on the show, 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.840 we talked about commercial spaceflight and implications surrounding the colonization 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.640 of space. Can you tell us about any advances or 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.320 anything that's changed or happened since we last chatted. 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.520 Yeah, there have been some significant changes, and some might 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.120 call them advancements, and they've been both on the technological 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.720 side and also clearly on the political side as well. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.160 So on the technological side, what we've seen is the 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.520 continued development of reusable heavy lift rockets by companies like 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.320 SpaceX and Blue Origin. 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.720 SpaceX is Elon Musk's commercial space flight company, and Blue 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.200 Origin is Jeff Bezos's. A reusable heavy lift rocket is 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.600 a big, powerful rocket that can carry heavy payloads like 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.720 satellites and crude spacecrafts into space. What's special about them 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.240 is that they can be recovered and reused to be 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.320 more cost efficient and so they recover parts like the 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.080 boosters instead of throwing them away, making space travel cheaper 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:31.360 and more frequent. 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.840 The biggest one that's been in the spot like the 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.760 most has been SpaceX's Starship. They've been launching it a lot, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.640 but they still have not completed a single successful orbital 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.680 journey with that system. We've watched as they have caught 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.600 the lower booster stage with those chopstick like arms, and 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.120 we've also watched how the actual spacecraft part of it 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.600 disintegrated over the Caribbean. If they are able to get 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.680 there in the next year or so, that would change 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.840 the game significantly, both in terms of how frequently we 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.320 can send stuff to space and how much. And on 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.440 the political side, of course, Elon Musk's ascension into the 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.200 upper echelons of American political power, which puts him in 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:16.120 charge of many different government leavers, including NASA. No, that's 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:17.320 a big question right now. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.720 Who knew you could run a space flight company, an 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.280 EV company, a social media company, and potentially be managing 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:41.240 a presidency all at the same time. I saw with 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:46.240 Blue Origin that their rocket, New glen It launched January sixteenth, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.320 twenty twenty five, and they were successful. Can you talk 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.520 a little bit about that mission and what we learned 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:52.840 from it. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.440 Yeah, that was a remarkable day where both Blue Origin 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.400 launched New Glen, which is their sort of equivalent of 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.240 SpaceX's Falcon heavy rockets, and on the same day there 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.320 was a Starship test launch, so it was like the 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.560 two dueling space companies on the same day. And what 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.800 we saw was Blue Origin's New Glen successfully deliver a 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.840 payload to orbit on its very first attempt, which is 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.640 good news. On the other side of the leisure, they 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.640 were trying to land the sort of lower stage of 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.840 their rocket the same way that SpaceX does and they 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.200 missed the target there, so this was a partial success. Now, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.120 if Blue Origin is successful and gets New Glen up 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.840 and running, you know, that would provide an alternative to 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.360 folks like NASA that are just sort of stuck using 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.960 SpaceX as their only contractor. Blue Origin could offer this 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.200 opportunity to have a second, redundant option always on the table. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.520 Okay, now is getting sticky because we're talking about contracts, 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.080 which is money for work with these private companies. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:50.920 Elon Musk owned. 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:57.040 SpaceX and now he kind of controls NASA. This feels 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.800 illegal mmm, because yeah, he could potentially just funnel all 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.080 the contracts directly to his company, SpaceX and completely shut 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.600 out the others. Another part of this that's crazy to 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.280 me is that NASA needs help from these folks Big. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:16.120 NASA, NASA in all caps, right, the NASA that we know. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.840 They've existed long before SpaceX and Blue Origin, so you 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.120 would think they had this whole space thing on lot. 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:28.360 So we all remember those massive lunar landings in the 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.520 late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies. That was when 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.200 NASA was the best funded it will ever be in 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.880 its entire existence. That's when going to space was not 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.600 only something interesting, but it was geopolitically urgent. It was 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.280 part of the Cold War anxiety over competition with the 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.640 Soviet Union. You know, we are no longer in that 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:53.160 age where space is sort of front and center geopolitical 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.320 urgent issue. And as a result, after those Apollo Moon 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.000 landings in the early nineteen seventies, NASA's budget was scaled 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.040 back significantly. They have never been funded to the level 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.359 that they could really do, you know, what people in 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.600 their minds thought a national space agent should be doing. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.800 So the idea was to split things between the public 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.840 and private sector to get into doing these public private 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.800 partnerships between NASA and companies like SpaceX. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.560 I wish NASA could just fundraise then mets for space. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.320 I'd buy a couple boxes for sure. 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.639 What kind of regulations are in place or do you 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.560 think would be great to have in place? As we 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.720 think about some of these advancements, particularly with partnerships between 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:38.719 government and private sector and space travel. 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.240 Well, given the results of the presidential election and Elon 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.840 Musk's new status within the government, I think the story 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.320 will not be one of regulation but de regulation. As 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.760 part of the starship development process, he has made his 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.600 displeasure with regulations well known. And these are regulations that 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.920 come from government agencies like the FAA, the Federal Ava Administration. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.359 The FAA protects workers and passengers, and the EPA the 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:09.360 Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA protects, you know, our environment 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.879 that we all need to survive. So what I expect, 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.800 given the way things have gone, is to see those 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.959 agencies defanged when it comes to oversight in terms of 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.720 space launch and space developments, and whether or not the 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.400 trade off is worth it in the end to get 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:31.200 these sort of technological capabilities at the expense of our environment, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.639 at the expense perhaps of workers' lives or the lives 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.760 of passengers who may be on early flights of these 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.280 That's a very real concern that I think, this trend 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:45.920 of deregulation, this trend of weakening government institutions, I think 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.240 that we proceed at our own peril. Here. 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.840 You talked about the expense of our environment in a 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.800 time where we're seeing across the globe effects of climate change, 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.840 We're maybe more aware of the effects of globalization and 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:05.359 dustrialization and other technological advances. I'm thinking about what it 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.520 looks like to be launching these programs and in different areas. 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.800 One thing that comes to mind is a documentary on 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.760 PBS called Bocachica and what's happening in that community. And 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.520 also you mentioned the dissolution of the rocket over the 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.960 Caribbean and that kind of debris. Are we seeing any 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.800 pushback or is the sentiment that, like these are some 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.320 of the costs of advancements. 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.560 We're not seeing significant pushback, which is alarming. Some of 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:36.960 the things that we're seeing, like the damage from the 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:41.199 recent test launches that might seem superficial, but it shows 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.560 a regard or a disregard I think for just a 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.360 respect for the environment, the respect for other people, and 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:53.159 a narrow focus on technological success at any expense. And 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.240 what I see there is, you know, looking into the future, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.880 if we continue with this regard, if we allow this 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.160 to stand and expand in the way that Elon Musk 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:07.199 says that he plans to expand Starship launches significantly, so 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.800 that it's like not just something that happens every few months, 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.760 but something that possibly happens every day. The multiplying factor 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.760 there is where I start to get worried. So the 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.119 trends that we set in the development phase when it 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:24.280 comes to respect for workers' rights, human safety, and the environment, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.240 you know, we can see a microcosm of where that 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.639 will be in the future right now, and that that 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:30.359 does worry me. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.880 Yeah, Earth, You and Danger Girl, Earth and space. Right 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.240 when NASA wants to launch into space, we know it's 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.480 for us to learn more about the universe. But when 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.200 Elon is going is kind of just a money grab 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.240 and he set his I on Mars for a long time. 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.080 But I think the question for me is like, why, 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:52.440 what's the goal? What is the goal? 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.840 Is absolutely the right question, because the goal when it 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.520 comes to Mars has always been changing. It's always been 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.320 evolved over time. You can think back to who was 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:07.560 the very first celebrity promoting sending humans to Mars, and 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.840 that was in the nineteen fifties, Verner von Brown, the 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.320 German rocket scientist who was a member of the Nazi Party, 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.680 an SS officer in that brutal organization, who got brought 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:19.879 to the United States as part of Operation paper Clip, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.560 ended up working for the US Army and later for NASA, 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.520 building the massive Saturn five rocket that took ashnauts to 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.560 the Moon. His biggest vision for humanity was to send 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.439 humans to explore the surface of Mars, and the expedition 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.640 that he imagined going there was a military led expedition. 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:41.000 This began to change once NASA was created in nineteen 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.720 fifty eight as a civilian scientific organization, still with lots 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.280