1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zukiah and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: The last time we were together in person was in Boston. 5 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Boston is always a good time. 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: Yes, But my friend always wants to get to the 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: airport two minutes before the boarding door closes, and I 8 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: cannot do that. 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 2: I am a two hours before the fly. 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: No. No is your sense of adventure if we're going by plane, 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: training automobile, I like a side shot of adrenaline. Please, 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: you know I don't need that. I'm trying to relax 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: on my travel. She want to run through the airport. 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: I cannot do it. I can't. But what blew me 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: that day was that my flight, even though we got 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: there at a reasonable time, was delayed to you got 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: there too early, and now you thought you had a 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: two hour delay, now you have four. 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: I thought I was going to cry. 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: I hate when that happens, you know, a delay. I 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: feel like you're so close to your destination, and every 22 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: time it make you feel like Tom Hanks and castaway, 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: like you just abandoned at the airport right right. Being 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: stuck anywhere that is not my house, my home, my abode, 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Mikasa will have me. 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: Losing my mind. 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: You be spiraling at four k. Absolutely, You're not the 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: only person that feels that way though, because you talked 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: about being abandoned in the airport. But a lot of 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: people are upset about astronauts that have been in space 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: that are supposed to have been back a very long 32 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: time ago. 33 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: Oh girl, hold that thought. Let's get into the recitation. 34 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So what do we know? Tt We know that 35 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: there are two astronauts up in space and they were 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: supposed to be back already. They've been up there for like, 37 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: I think it's more than six months at this point. 38 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: We also know that being in space for any amount 39 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: of time is hard on the body. 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and from. 41 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: Our last episode on space, we know that commercial spaceflight 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: is becoming a bigger and bigger industry. Yes, President Elon 43 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: Musk has its own space business. 44 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: This varies, yes, Okay, So what do we want to know? 45 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: I would know why those astronauts were up there in 46 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: the first place. So how did they get up there, 47 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: why are they up there? How did they get stuck? 48 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: And what are we doing to get them back. These 49 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: are very important questions and I want to know what 50 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: happens to your body after being in space for that 51 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: much time. And a lot has happened in the world 52 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: since our last episode on commercial space flight, but a 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: lot has happened in that industry specifically. So have there 54 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: been any new regulations because it was the wild Wild 55 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: West or the wild wild Space the last time we 56 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: talked about it, And where's that's in the equation? And 57 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: are they even gonna still be around to be in 58 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: the equation? You know, Oh, the jury's still out. There's 59 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: also a lot of talk about Mars, and I just 60 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: want to know, like what's good, what's good with Mars? 61 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Like why are we even targeting Mars? I think these 62 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: are a good starting one thousand questions. So for this episode, 63 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: we're bringing back our friend, space historian doctor Jordan Beim. 64 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,119 Speaker 1: Some things have changed with Jordan since the last time 65 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: we spoke. 66 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: I'm still here at the University of Chicago. Since the 67 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: last time that we chatted, I've become a professor here now, 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: which is Gratus Creations. 69 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Thank you. 70 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you still miss my home country Canada? But 71 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: I'm you know, still making a go of it down here. 72 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: We all miss Canada right now. We all want to go. 73 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: We want to go. So first we need a little 74 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: background on these astronauts. Their names are Sunita Sunny Williams 75 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: and Barry Butch Wilmore. They are both former US Navy captains. 76 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: Sunni was selected as a NASA astronaut in nineteen ninety 77 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: eight and has flown on two other missions to space. 78 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: She even held the female record for most spacewalk time 79 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: until twenty seventeen. Butch was selected as a NASA astronaut 80 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: in two thousand and served as commander of Expedition forty two. 81 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: It seems like this is definitely not their first radio right, 82 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: So what was the mission this time? 83 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: So they were test flying a new type of spacecraft 84 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 3: called the Boeing Starliner, which had a lot of problems 85 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: in development, and they were the first humans to try 86 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 3: and give it a flight, and they made it to 87 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: the ISS, but there were problems getting there that gave 88 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 3: NASA pause about whether they wanted to risk them coming 89 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: back on that craft. So what they opted to do 90 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 3: was to just have them join the crew that is 91 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: on the ISS, called Crew nine, and to come back 92 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: basically on their regular scheduled return vehicle, which is a 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 3: SpaceX Dragon capsule. 94 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: That was the plan, but it didn't turn out that right. 95 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: I am really scared for my friends Sunni and but 96 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: but should I. 97 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 3: Be so for this? I have been putting a riff 98 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: on the famous line from Apollo thirteen and saying, Houston, 99 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 3: we have a fake problem. So those astronauts are not stranded. 100 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: They are not stuck in space. 101 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, say that again. 102 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: Those astronauts are not stranded. They are not stuck in space. 103 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 3: Since September there has been a SpaceX capsule doted the 104 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 3: ISS with two seats on it for them. Now, it 105 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: was a little weird that they were not able to 106 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: return on the test vehicle that they were test flying, 107 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: and that their trip has been extended from eight days 108 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: to you know, eight months plus, But the situation up 109 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 3: there pretty much normal for them. 110 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: That's not what we've been hearing. 111 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 3: What you're hearing from the political leadership right now about 112 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 3: them being abandoned, about them being needing rescue. You know, 113 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 3: all of that is giving a false sense of danger, 114 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: a false sense of risk, and it's putting a false 115 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 3: smear of failure upon NASA, which is not actually the case. 116 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: So the way I've been thinking about it is, imagine 117 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 3: you're at a train station and you've got a ticket 118 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: for the train. The train is there waiting for you, 119 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 3: but it's not leaving just yet. It's leaving in an hour. 120 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 3: Are you stranded at that station? Are you in need 121 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 3: of rescue? No, You're just waiting for the next scheduled departure. 122 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: Jordan. Now I have some follow up questions because there's 123 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: a delay and then there's eight months, you know, so 124 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious about how often this happens, and is this 125 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: par for the course. Are people having these kind of 126 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: delays up there in space or is it typically a 127 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: couple days or a couple of weeks. 128 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 3: So it's not that their train has been delayed, it's 129 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: that they're taking a different train that leaves later, and 130 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 3: that is totally normal. That's regular scheduled crew transfers from 131 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 3: the ISS. So crews go and come to the ISS 132 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: in regular increments that last for about six or seven months, 133 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 3: and Butch Wilmore and Sonny Williams are just waiting for 134 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 3: that next increment to conclude so that they can come 135 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 3: back to Earth with those two other astronauts on that 136 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: normal scheduled return. 137 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: Are there risk to be in there for ameleass because 138 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: if I only pack my bags and I brought snacks 139 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: for like two days. 140 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: I don't have enough underwear for that. 141 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: Okay, same there are crude resupply missions that are constantly 142 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: going to the ISS, so they have tons of supplies 143 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: up there. They are not running out of food or 144 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: clothes or anything like that. I listened to an interview 145 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: with them on the ISS just five days ago, and 146 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 3: they sounded totally fine, totally normal, just like any other 147 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: crew on the ISS. The thing to remember is that 148 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 3: Butch Wilmore and Sonny Williams are veteran NASA astronauts. This 149 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: is not a new or unfamiliar place for them. They 150 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: are just an integrated, regular part of the crew. They're 151 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 3: doing science experiments, they're performing spacewalks to do maintenance up there. 152 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: They're in good spirits, they're professionals. Part of astronaut training 153 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 3: is how to deal with contingencies, how to deal with 154 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: the unexpected. 155 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: What impacts are there on your body when you go 156 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: to space and being there for an extended amount of time, 157 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: Do the effects compound. Does it get worse the longer 158 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: you're out there? So what can we expect for these 159 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: two astronauts when they get back physically? 160 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a question a lot of people have, 161 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 3: like is it safe to actually extend their stay for 162 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: that long from eight days to perhaps eight months or longer. 163 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: And the answer is it's actually well within the known 164 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 3: lengths of stays on the ISS. Humans have stayed on 165 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: the ISS for over a year. There are known changes 166 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 3: to the body that are caused by the microgravity environment, 167 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: the zero G weightless environment on the ISS, and that 168 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: includes things like muscle atrophy and bone loss and sometimes 169 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: changes to the eyeball that can involve vision problems when 170 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 3: returning to Earth. But these are well understood and they 171 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: are mitigated through things like working out every day on 172 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: board the ISS. They have a treadmill up there, they 173 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 3: have resistance equipment that they all use regularly to mitigate this. So, 174 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 3: while yes, some astronauts do have some trouble coming back 175 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 3: when they get back to Earth, they are in the 176 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 3: very capable hands of NASA's medical team. 177 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: So you're basically saying this is a walk in the park, 178 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: But why does this still feel so spooky ky. 179 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 3: We are sort of fixated on this story because of 180 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 3: the word stranded or stuck in space, and there is 181 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 3: this sort of cultural imaginary of the stranded astronaut. Right 182 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 3: we all know the movie The Martian Matt Damon Stuck 183 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 3: on Mars. There are other movies too that deal with 184 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: stranded astronauts. In nineteen sixty eight, right before the Apollo 185 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 3: eleven moon landing, there was a big blockbuster movie called 186 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 3: Marooned about a crew of astronauts stuck in Earth orbit. 187 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: And even before that, there was a movie called Robinson 188 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: Crusoe on Mars, which you can imagine what that's like. 189 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: And there's even urban legends too, like from the early 190 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: days of the space program in the early nineteen sixties, 191 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: there was this myth about the lost cosmonauts, and this 192 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 3: was the idea that Yuri Gagarin wasn't actually the first 193 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,599 Speaker 3: human in space, but the Soviet Union had tried to 194 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 3: launch humans before, but they had died in orbit and 195 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 3: their missions had been covered up and kept secret. These, 196 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 3: of course were total fabrications, urban legends as part of 197 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 3: the Cold War, but they endure in our minds, and 198 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: together with those pop culture imaginaries, they sort of frame 199 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: what's happening on the ISS right now in a particular way. 200 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: So basically you're saying, we all have way too much imagination. 201 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: We're watching these sci fi movies, and you know what, 202 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: as you were saying, especially when you brought up The Martian, 203 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: I just finished listening to Project Hill Mary, which was 204 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: written by Andy Were who also did wrote The Martian, 205 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: and so I was thinking all of these things the 206 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: entire time. I'm listening to the audiobook, and I'm like, Oh, 207 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: this's got to be what's happening to my two astronauts 208 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: that are stranded, not what's happening at all. 209 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: No space propaganda, yes, but there is. 210 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: There are historical, like real life examples of times where 211 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: astronauts have had their stays extended due to remarkable circumstances. 212 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 3: The most famous of these occurred in nineteen ninety one 213 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two, and this was a Soviet cosmonaut called 214 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: Sergei Kerkhlev, who was on the Mirror Space station when 215 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union dissolved, and because of the political instability 216 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 3: and the lack of funding, he actually had to stay 217 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 3: up there for a couple extra one hundred days, so 218 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: I think he stayed for three hundred days in total, 219 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 3: almost a whole year, and he left a citizen of 220 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union and returned a citizen of a new country, 221 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: the Russian Federation. Now, the other example that comes to 222 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 3: mind is in the aftermath of the tragic loss of 223 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 3: the Space Shuttle Columbia in two thousand and three, there 224 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: were astronauts on board the International Space Station whose plan 225 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: was to come home on the next Space Shuttle. Of course, 226 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 3: NASA grounded the entire Shuttle fleet while they tried to 227 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 3: figure out what went wrong to cause the loss of Columbia, 228 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: and those astronauts had to have their stay on the 229 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 3: IS extended about fifty or sixty days. They ended up 230 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: coming back on a Russian Soyuz spacecraft which was attached 231 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: to the ISS as part of normal operations. Now, the 232 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 3: funny thing is one of those astronauts, Don Pettitt, is 233 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 3: actually on board the ISS right now, so this is 234 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 3: sort of the second time he has dealt with a 235 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 3: sort of unexpected extension of some crew members on the ISS. 236 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: If I saw Don on the ISS, I would say, 237 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: I'm not going up there. Bad luck. It seems like 238 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: something's going on whenever Europe there. It seems like things 239 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: are always changing. You know, you've basically diffused this panic 240 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: in our minds at least, and I'm excited for you 241 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: to relieve some of the stress for some of our 242 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: listeners too. I'm wondering if you have more good news 243 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: for us. So, the last time you were on the show, 244 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: we talked about commercial spaceflight and implications surrounding the colonization 245 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: of space. Can you tell us about any advances or 246 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: anything that's changed or happened since we last chatted. 247 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, there have been some significant changes, and some might 248 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 3: call them advancements, and they've been both on the technological 249 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 3: side and also clearly on the political side as well. 250 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 3: So on the technological side, what we've seen is the 251 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: continued development of reusable heavy lift rockets by companies like 252 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 3: SpaceX and Blue Origin. 253 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: SpaceX is Elon Musk's commercial space flight company, and Blue 254 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: Origin is Jeff Bezos's. A reusable heavy lift rocket is 255 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: a big, powerful rocket that can carry heavy payloads like 256 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: satellites and crude spacecrafts into space. What's special about them 257 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: is that they can be recovered and reused to be 258 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: more cost efficient and so they recover parts like the 259 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: boosters instead of throwing them away, making space travel cheaper 260 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: and more frequent. 261 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 3: The biggest one that's been in the spot like the 262 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: most has been SpaceX's Starship. They've been launching it a lot, 263 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 3: but they still have not completed a single successful orbital 264 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 3: journey with that system. We've watched as they have caught 265 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: the lower booster stage with those chopstick like arms, and 266 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: we've also watched how the actual spacecraft part of it 267 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 3: disintegrated over the Caribbean. If they are able to get 268 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: there in the next year or so, that would change 269 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 3: the game significantly, both in terms of how frequently we 270 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: can send stuff to space and how much. And on 271 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: the political side, of course, Elon Musk's ascension into the 272 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 3: upper echelons of American political power, which puts him in 273 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: charge of many different government leavers, including NASA. No, that's 274 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 3: a big question right now. 275 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: Who knew you could run a space flight company, an 276 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: EV company, a social media company, and potentially be managing 277 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: a presidency all at the same time. I saw with 278 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: Blue Origin that their rocket, New glen It launched January sixteenth, 279 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, and they were successful. Can you talk 280 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: a little bit about that mission and what we learned 281 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: from it. 282 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a remarkable day where both Blue Origin 283 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 3: launched New Glen, which is their sort of equivalent of 284 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 3: SpaceX's Falcon heavy rockets, and on the same day there 285 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 3: was a Starship test launch, so it was like the 286 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 3: two dueling space companies on the same day. And what 287 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: we saw was Blue Origin's New Glen successfully deliver a 288 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: payload to orbit on its very first attempt, which is 289 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: good news. On the other side of the leisure, they 290 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: were trying to land the sort of lower stage of 291 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: their rocket the same way that SpaceX does and they 292 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 3: missed the target there, so this was a partial success. Now, 293 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: if Blue Origin is successful and gets New Glen up 294 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 3: and running, you know, that would provide an alternative to 295 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 3: folks like NASA that are just sort of stuck using 296 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: SpaceX as their only contractor. Blue Origin could offer this 297 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 3: opportunity to have a second, redundant option always on the table. 298 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: Okay, now is getting sticky because we're talking about contracts, 299 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: which is money for work with these private companies. 300 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: Elon Musk owned. 301 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: SpaceX and now he kind of controls NASA. This feels 302 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: illegal mmm, because yeah, he could potentially just funnel all 303 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: the contracts directly to his company, SpaceX and completely shut 304 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: out the others. Another part of this that's crazy to 305 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: me is that NASA needs help from these folks Big. 306 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: NASA, NASA in all caps, right, the NASA that we know. 307 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: They've existed long before SpaceX and Blue Origin, so you 308 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: would think they had this whole space thing on lot. 309 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 3: So we all remember those massive lunar landings in the 310 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 3: late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies. That was when 311 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 3: NASA was the best funded it will ever be in 312 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: its entire existence. That's when going to space was not 313 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: only something interesting, but it was geopolitically urgent. It was 314 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 3: part of the Cold War anxiety over competition with the 315 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: Soviet Union. You know, we are no longer in that 316 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: age where space is sort of front and center geopolitical 317 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 3: urgent issue. And as a result, after those Apollo Moon 318 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: landings in the early nineteen seventies, NASA's budget was scaled 319 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 3: back significantly. They have never been funded to the level 320 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 3: that they could really do, you know, what people in 321 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 3: their minds thought a national space agent should be doing. 322 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 3: So the idea was to split things between the public 323 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: and private sector to get into doing these public private 324 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: partnerships between NASA and companies like SpaceX. 325 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: I wish NASA could just fundraise then mets for space. 326 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: I'd buy a couple boxes for sure. 327 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: What kind of regulations are in place or do you 328 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: think would be great to have in place? As we 329 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: think about some of these advancements, particularly with partnerships between 330 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 1: government and private sector and space travel. 331 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 3: Well, given the results of the presidential election and Elon 332 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: Musk's new status within the government, I think the story 333 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: will not be one of regulation but de regulation. As 334 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: part of the starship development process, he has made his 335 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: displeasure with regulations well known. And these are regulations that 336 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 3: come from government agencies like the FAA, the Federal Ava Administration. 337 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 3: The FAA protects workers and passengers, and the EPA the 338 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 3: Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA protects, you know, our environment 339 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: that we all need to survive. So what I expect, 340 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 3: given the way things have gone, is to see those 341 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 3: agencies defanged when it comes to oversight in terms of 342 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 3: space launch and space developments, and whether or not the 343 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 3: trade off is worth it in the end to get 344 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 3: these sort of technological capabilities at the expense of our environment, 345 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 3: at the expense perhaps of workers' lives or the lives 346 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 3: of passengers who may be on early flights of these 347 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 3: That's a very real concern that I think, this trend 348 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 3: of deregulation, this trend of weakening government institutions, I think 349 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 3: that we proceed at our own peril. Here. 350 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: You talked about the expense of our environment in a 351 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: time where we're seeing across the globe effects of climate change, 352 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: We're maybe more aware of the effects of globalization and 353 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: dustrialization and other technological advances. I'm thinking about what it 354 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: looks like to be launching these programs and in different areas. 355 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: One thing that comes to mind is a documentary on 356 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: PBS called Bocachica and what's happening in that community. And 357 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: also you mentioned the dissolution of the rocket over the 358 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: Caribbean and that kind of debris. Are we seeing any 359 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: pushback or is the sentiment that, like these are some 360 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: of the costs of advancements. 361 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 3: We're not seeing significant pushback, which is alarming. Some of 362 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: the things that we're seeing, like the damage from the 363 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 3: recent test launches that might seem superficial, but it shows 364 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 3: a regard or a disregard I think for just a 365 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 3: respect for the environment, the respect for other people, and 366 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 3: a narrow focus on technological success at any expense. And 367 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: what I see there is, you know, looking into the future, 368 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 3: if we continue with this regard, if we allow this 369 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 3: to stand and expand in the way that Elon Musk 370 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 3: says that he plans to expand Starship launches significantly, so 371 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 3: that it's like not just something that happens every few months, 372 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 3: but something that possibly happens every day. The multiplying factor 373 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 3: there is where I start to get worried. So the 374 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 3: trends that we set in the development phase when it 375 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: comes to respect for workers' rights, human safety, and the environment, 376 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: you know, we can see a microcosm of where that 377 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: will be in the future right now, and that that 378 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 3: does worry me. 379 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Earth, You and Danger Girl, Earth and space. Right 380 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: when NASA wants to launch into space, we know it's 381 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: for us to learn more about the universe. But when 382 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: Elon is going is kind of just a money grab 383 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: and he set his I on Mars for a long time. 384 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: But I think the question for me is like, why, 385 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: what's the goal? What is the goal? 386 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 3: Is absolutely the right question, because the goal when it 387 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 3: comes to Mars has always been changing. It's always been 388 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 3: evolved over time. You can think back to who was 389 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 3: the very first celebrity promoting sending humans to Mars, and 390 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 3: that was in the nineteen fifties, Verner von Brown, the 391 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 3: German rocket scientist who was a member of the Nazi Party, 392 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 3: an SS officer in that brutal organization, who got brought 393 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 3: to the United States as part of Operation paper Clip, 394 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 3: ended up working for the US Army and later for NASA, 395 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: building the massive Saturn five rocket that took ashnauts to 396 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: the Moon. His biggest vision for humanity was to send 397 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 3: humans to explore the surface of Mars, and the expedition 398 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 3: that he imagined going there was a military led expedition. 399 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: This began to change once NASA was created in nineteen 400 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 3: fifty eight as a civilian scientific organization, still with lots 401 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 3: of military aspects to it, but the goal of Mars, 402 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: you know, really changed. Mars became not a place for 403 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 3: military conquest and strategic presence, but a place for scientific 404 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 3: exploration and discovery. Now this is changing again, so Elon 405 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 3: Musk is not played to send people to Mars for 406 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: scientific research. He's planning to send a million people to 407 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 3: Mars to establish a commercial human settlement there, and this 408 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 3: directly conflicts with scientific goals. You know, you send a 409 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 3: million people to Mars, you bring all kinds of contaminants, 410 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 3: all kinds of microbes with us, all kinds of garbage 411 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 3: and trash, and that ruins Mars as a pristine's scientific 412 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 3: object that can tell us things about the origin of life, 413 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: the development and structure of our solar system and our planet. 414 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: It's giving. I'm not interested in the scientific method, You're right, 415 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: it's giving. 416 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: I'm interested in making more. 417 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: Mine, Okay, Jordan. So we thought it would be fun 418 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: to play a game with you, because you are our 419 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: really really smart space friend. And this game is called 420 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: real or sci Fi, where you're gonna give us a 421 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: space clue and we have to guess if it's real 422 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: or it's made up sci fi? 423 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: All right, Real or sci Fi. NASA is planning to 424 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 3: send a quad copter drone to Saturn's moon Titan Real quad. 425 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna say, Sifi, this is real. 426 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: This is a planned mission called Dragonfly. We have had 427 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: a helicopter drone on Mars ingenuity, which operated very well 428 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 3: in Mars's ultra thin atmosphere. Titan, though, the moon of 429 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: Saturn has a very thick atmosphere, which actually makes it 430 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 3: easier to fly around him. So they have this quad 431 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: copter drone concept called Dragonfly, which is planned to launch 432 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty eight and would arrive on Titan sometime 433 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 3: in the twenty thirties. 434 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: You know, it sounded so wild. 435 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: Zeki was just like, real, well, the helicopter drone is 436 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: the possible part that gave me the reaction. The only 437 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: thing I was like, is that dune? What are those 438 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: things called on doom? Those? Yeah, that was my only hesitation. 439 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Next one real or sci fi. NASA 440 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 3: is planning to send a robotic eel to Saturn's moon, Enceladus. 441 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: Now a robotic eel, I'm gonna say. I'm going to say, 442 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: oh man, now I'm nervous. Robotic eel, don't be nervous 443 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: for us. All about learning real, I'm gonna say sci fi. 444 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 3: This one is also real. So this is a concept 445 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 3: from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory JPL. EEL here stands for 446 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 3: Exobiology Extant Life Surveyor, but it is also shaped like 447 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: an eel, So imagine a thirteen foot long snakelike robot 448 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 3: that weighs two hundred pounds. And the idea here is 449 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 3: to get around the limitations of rovers, which have been 450 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 3: doing a great job on Mars. But they can't go everywhere, 451 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: you know, they can't go up really steep slopes, they 452 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 3: can't traverse some really rocky terrain. And the idea is 453 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 3: that this robotic snakelike eel would be able to slither 454 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: all over the place. And with Enceladus, especially, robotic spacecraft 455 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: like Cassini have actually imaged geysers shooting out from underneath 456 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 3: the icy crust of the planet, and the idea is 457 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 3: if water can come out, then maybe that eel can 458 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 3: slither in that sand crevice and meet some aliens down 459 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 3: in that subsurface ocean there. So, you know, this is 460 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 3: one of those things that for me, it's like it's 461 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 3: such a cool idea, But to watch video of this 462 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 3: thing moving around in the lab, it just is very 463 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: unsettling and gives me the hebgbs. 464 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: Are you gonna send an eel down into an icy 465 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: old faithful exactly old no moon? 466 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 2: That is wild? 467 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine you're at home and a ale just slither 468 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: through your door. 469 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: No, it's like, hell, look just looking around. 470 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 3: See this goes back to first impressions. Do we really 471 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 3: want the underwater aliens to this to be their first 472 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 3: impression of us? We got to take that into consideration too. 473 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 2: I know they should think of something else. That's a 474 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: little bit creepy. Okay. 475 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 3: Last one, real or sci fi. NASA is planning an 476 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 3: experiment to see if ants can sort tiny objects in 477 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: the microgravity environment of space. 478 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: That sounds real to me, real, I want to believe. 479 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 3: Nah. This one's from an episode of The Simpsons called 480 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 3: Deep Space. Homer, Well, the Simpsons does have predictive power. 481 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: We have seen that in other places. You're actually right 482 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 3: about that. I should have I should have factored that 483 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 3: in the Simpsons quotient. 484 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is so funny. Man. Well, I 485 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 2: hope home. Was Homer successful in that episode? 486 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 3: No, he wrecked that experiment and they regretted that they 487 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 3: will never know if ants truly can sort small objects 488 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 3: in microgravity. I'm Jordan beIN, a space historian and professor 489 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 3: of science communication at the University of Chicago, and I'm 490 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: really excited to be on Dope Labs this week. 491 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: You know, Jordan always comes with the facts and the 492 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: history and the pop culture, and this is just a 493 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: reminder that nobody is immune to the news bubble and 494 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: their cycle. Because what I was seeing kept making me 495 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: think that those astronauts were stranded, but there were other 496 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: outlets that were accurately reporting that they weren't stranded. So 497 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 1: c net has something, Space dot Com had something. I 498 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: was just looking in the wrong places and really looking 499 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: at what my favorite social media commentators were saying about it, 500 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: and that was wrong. Yes, because they're showing pictures of 501 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: Sunni and making it seems like she is aging at 502 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: hyper speed when really it's just she's chilling. Mm hmm. 503 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 504 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: Imagine somebody taking your You already know what I'm call 505 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: with that. When I get my feet back on Earth, 506 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: cease and desist to all of you. Oh, don't make 507 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: me have to knock your block off of send you 508 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: straight to space and there you have it. A big 509 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: thank you to Jordan for all of his expertise today. 510 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: You can find Jordans on Instagram at Jordan b I 511 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: M M. You can find us on x and Instagram 512 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: at Dope Lab podcast TT is on x and Instagram, 513 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: at dr Underscore, t. 514 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: S h O, and you can find Zakiya at Ze 515 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 2: said So. 516 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media. Our senior 517 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate producer is 518 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: Issara s A. Dope Labs is sound design, edited and 519 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,719 Speaker 1: mixed by James Farber. Leimonada Media's Vice President of Partnerships 520 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast 521 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Canter. Original music 522 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, 523 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive 524 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: produced by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.