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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, it's me James. I just wanted to do

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Speaker 3: very quick introduction to the episode. We have split it

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Speaker 3: into two parts because it went longer than we expected,

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Speaker 3: so you hear the first part to date, and you

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Speaker 3: will hear the second part tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: Welcome everyone to It's going to happen here. My name

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Speaker 4: is Mick, and I'm here with the lovely James Stouts

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Speaker 4: and the lovely Molly Conger. How are you guys doing.

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Speaker 3: I'm great, so excited. I just love violive France. I

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Speaker 3: love all things French. I've had such great times in France.

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Speaker 3: I just particularly lovely French identitarism. So I'm excited.

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Speaker 4: You love French, No, it's love it with like like French.

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Speaker 5: James out huge, I just love.

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Speaker 3: Like like the the idea like of the themong nations,

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Speaker 3: like France has chosen one. It's just like, I'm not

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Speaker 3: particularly anti French, but it is quite funny to me.

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Speaker 6: James travels to France every year to go to what

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Speaker 6: do they still have generation identity?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Every and I uh and every year they say, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: your accent is not correct. You've not used vo in

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Speaker 3: the in the requisite time. Therefore you are no longer

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Speaker 3: welcome here. I went to France once with some Quebec

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Speaker 3: quir friends. This is a funny, like low key identity story.

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Speaker 3: I've already derailed this.

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Speaker 4: Don't worry, don't worry.

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Speaker 3: I went with two Quebec quar friends and we like

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Speaker 3: were doing something official and I did it, conducted my

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Speaker 3: thing in French.

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Speaker 4: It was fine.

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Speaker 3: I speak French and this wasn't an issue for me.

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Speaker 3: And then they went up at this woman just when

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Speaker 3: you don't speak French, sir, and then begin and addressing

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Speaker 3: them in English because she was unwilling to accept the

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Speaker 3: coco quebecqua in France.

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Speaker 5: They're so mean.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I for one am excited to hear about

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Speaker 6: I don't know a lot about this guy.

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Speaker 4: No, he's a weird little guy, my favorite kind of guy. Yeah, exactly, notably,

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Speaker 4: which is why I asked you. I'm also just recovering

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Speaker 4: from like an English person here saying that they love France.

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Speaker 4: But that must be like a historically first time that

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Speaker 4: that happen.

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Speaker 3: Good place to race bikes, It's a good place to

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Speaker 3: if you like to hang out in the mountains and

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Speaker 3: race bikes. Pretty much France, Spain. Maybe Italy is where

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Speaker 3: it's at.

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Speaker 6: I visited once and I didn't I don't know. People

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Speaker 6: are always saying that you are so cruel to Americans.

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Speaker 6: That wasn't my experience, but most people there long enough.

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Speaker 6: Yeah it's and you know, I'll always treasure the week

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Speaker 6: that I spent in Paris because it is the only

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Speaker 6: reason I didn't get deported from Germany for visa violations.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that that is a story I actually want to hear.

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Speaker 4: I've ever done recording. So but yeah, we're talking about

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Speaker 4: French identitarianism, French Nazis. But before you start, James, I

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Speaker 4: wanted to ask you a very important question. First, you

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Speaker 4: have a podcasting honorary degree, a PhD. I've heard that's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me and Joe Rogan both.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And I just must ask, how do you

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Speaker 4: deal with the recurring trauma of having to hear your

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Speaker 4: own voice on recording?

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Speaker 3: I play it at one point five time speed, so

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Speaker 3: it doesn't sound like me.

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Speaker 4: I was very curious about that. I've also had a

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Speaker 4: fair shoff having to hear my own voice, and it

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Speaker 4: just doesn't get any easier. No.

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Speaker 6: I thought I would struggle with it because I hate

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Speaker 6: the sound of my own voice in casual context, but

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Speaker 6: like listening to my own podcast.

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Speaker 5: I guess because I talk like this on my podcast

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Speaker 5: and it sounds a little different, right, So it's.

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Speaker 4: Like, oh, you go into podcast mode.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I have observe at Terry gross thing cooking.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, yeah, I'll try that.

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Speaker 4: I'll do my Molly voice next time. Well, see that

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Speaker 4: this is the kind of information that I need to

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Speaker 4: cope with.

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Speaker 5: Now you have to form an alter ego, oh.

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Speaker 3: Like a into your podcast self a podcast the Doctor

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Speaker 3: Checkle and mister Hyde exactly. Yeah, podcasting is just the

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Speaker 3: id of every man. Every every white guy in the

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Speaker 3: world has a podcasting id.

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Speaker 4: This is uh. Freud would have loved this era.

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Speaker 3: He wouldn't you don't have to psychoanalyze anyone anymore because

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Speaker 3: they just say shit.

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Speaker 5: Just say it. They'll just say it.

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Speaker 3: They put it on through social like it's not fun anymore.

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Speaker 3: He'd be bored.

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Speaker 4: Well, that would be counteracted by like the higher quality

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Speaker 4: cocaine that we have right now compared to his era.

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Speaker 4: You would also be prosecuted for feeding his children cocaine.

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Speaker 4: So you know, you win some of you lose some.

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Speaker 4: You never know.

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Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epteen got away with a lot of shit, Like

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Speaker 3: maybe maybe Freud could have joined the club.

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Speaker 4: That's a horrifying mix of worlds.

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Speaker 5: That's else about this French Nazis today.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, okay, I'm just I'm starting with a bit

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Speaker 4: of an introduction because this story actually happens in my

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Speaker 4: hometown of Utrecht. Oh no, shit, Yeah. Somewhere midway through February,

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Speaker 4: a message started to circulate in far right circles in

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Speaker 4: the Netherlands. It originated from a group called Defend Netherlands,

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Speaker 4: who made a public call to visit the AKU on

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Speaker 4: the night of Thursday twenty sixth to remember Quentin killed

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Speaker 4: in a cowardly manner by Antifa in Lyon. Earlier that

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Speaker 4: month small side notes. All these groups are so proud

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Speaker 4: of the Netherlands but never used Dutch language, and it's huh,

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Speaker 4: it's my personal pet peeve. Did you any English? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: they call themsel like defend Netherlands.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's called defend it's not translated. It's it's not translated.

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Speaker 6: That's so interesting I find with European Nazi groups used

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Speaker 6: primarily English.

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Speaker 5: It is because it is born American audience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're trying to communicate something.

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Speaker 5: Because Americans only speaking yes, yeah, but.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, that was the message that was circulated on Instagram

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Speaker 4: and telegram. The top of the in which that was

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Speaker 4: shared showed a Celtic cross, a symbol with a Christian

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Speaker 4: and Pagan origins but politically often used by white supremacists

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Speaker 4: and neo fascist groups. At the bottom is an Italian

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Speaker 4: slogan in orange letters at the national color of the Netherlands,

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Speaker 4: reading pertucti camarati caluti presente. The slogan originates from the

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Speaker 4: Italian fascist movements and means for our fallen comrades present,

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Speaker 4: signaling that the fallen comrades are present in spirit. I

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Speaker 4: can hear you all thinking, what the fuck has the

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Speaker 4: depth in France to do with the political community center

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Speaker 4: in the Netherlands, because that is what accuus. It's a

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Speaker 4: community center. There's concerts, there's a bar, sometimes there's fundraisers.

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Speaker 4: There's nothing openness going on there, but lots of more

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Speaker 4: left leaning people visit there, which is I think why

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Speaker 4: it was the original target. So but to understand how

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Speaker 4: it came to be that the death of a French

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Speaker 4: Nazi caused threats to a Doutch bar, we'll have to

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Speaker 4: explore the circumstances of the death of Quentin Drank Dan.

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Speaker 5: You're asking the wrong crowd speaks French French.

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Speaker 4: I guess it's der hunk like what d e I

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Speaker 4: A n k e.

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Speaker 7: U e.

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Speaker 4: Q Okay, I will I will butcher dispronunciation. It's okay

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Speaker 4: if it's a Nazzi, yeah, exactly, it's okay.

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Speaker 3: If it's French that that Molly money's now going to

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Speaker 3: get kicked out of Paris never again, a law of money.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'll help you circumvent Dutch fees. Don't worry. But

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Speaker 4: Dan Dan was a far right activist who died on

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Speaker 4: February fourteenth after a violent altercation between the far right

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Speaker 4: and the far left. I also want to make like

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Speaker 4: a broad disclaimer, regardless of where anyone who listening to

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Speaker 4: this stance politically, I'm still going to say this was tragic.

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Speaker 4: Quentin was only twenty three, barely an adult, and as

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Speaker 4: much as his worldview and politics were vile, cruel, and

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Speaker 4: pretty much everything I'm personally opposed to, it was still

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Speaker 4: a son, a friend, and a family member. That that's

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Speaker 4: not coming home.

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Speaker 6: I think it's always a tragic thing for someone to

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Speaker 6: get beaten to death in the street, or at least almost.

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Speaker 4: Always, almost almost always.

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Speaker 6: But you know, I'm not saying it's wrong to punch

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Speaker 6: a Nazi in the face, but I think beating a

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Speaker 6: young man to death is probably not necessary in this case, definitely.

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Speaker 4: And I don't want to make it come off like

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Speaker 4: this is a celebration of some sorts, because it's not.

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Speaker 4: It's a tragedy. And as much as the world will

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Speaker 4: be a better place without his politics, I still think

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Speaker 4: it's within my own moral lines to say, like, fuck,

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Speaker 4: this shouldn't have happened.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think that's important to acknowledge upfront, because

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Speaker 6: I think me if I'm wrong, I don't know exactly

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Speaker 6: where the conversation is going. But from what I have

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Speaker 6: seen in you know, following a bunch of telegram chats

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Speaker 6: from Nazis all over the world. And I haven't engaged

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Speaker 6: really with this story. I don't know a lot about it,

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Speaker 6: but I see his name a lot. So his death

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Speaker 6: has become something that isn't really about him. It's not

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Speaker 6: about the tragic death of a young man, even to

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Speaker 6: the people who are celebrating his life and using his death.

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Speaker 5: As a political tool.

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Speaker 6: Right, It's like, it's not about the tragedy of his

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Speaker 6: death for the people who would have been his friends.

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Speaker 4: No, and I think we could add some asterisks later

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Speaker 4: on with friends.

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Speaker 5: Because he wasn't white, wasn't he he.

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Speaker 4: Was half I think his mother was.

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Speaker 6: Peruvian, half Peruvian exactly. Yeah, anyway, sorry, sorry to derail me.

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Speaker 4: No, that's fine.

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Speaker 6: His death is tragic, and I think that is a

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Speaker 6: much more generous read of the situation than many of

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Speaker 6: his comrades would actually have.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And also it's like, if I'm going to celebrate it,

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Speaker 4: then I'm no better than they would would be other

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Speaker 4: than being on the night different political aisle. So but

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Speaker 4: those two things can exist at the same time. But

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Speaker 4: to get back who was Quentin. He was a student

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Speaker 4: at Leon University. I've read contradictory reports on what it

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Speaker 4: exactly was that he studied, but it was in the

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Speaker 4: general area of mathematics and data science. Around his late teens,

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Speaker 4: he converted to Catholicism, and outside of his studies, he

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Speaker 4: was passionate about philosophy and ethics, specifically Saint Thomas Aquinas

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Speaker 4: and Saint Augustine. Those close to him who have spoken

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Speaker 4: with the media and describe him as more of a

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Speaker 4: bookworm than violent activist. Few quotes here to underline that

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Speaker 4: he was a normal young man who had reconnected with

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Speaker 4: his roots, who loved this country, his people, his civilization,

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Speaker 4: his religion. Quentin belongs to the legend. He is already

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Speaker 4: a hero and a barter.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, these are the things said by the people

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Speaker 5: who loved him.

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Speaker 4: This was a friend of his who spoke to the media.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you always hear this about I mean,

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Speaker 6: I don't know anything about Quentin specifically, but just because

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Speaker 6: someone close to him said he was he was a

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Speaker 6: nice boy. He was never violent. You heard that about

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Speaker 6: mass shooters. Yeah, yeah, great, ass.

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Speaker 4: All exactly and apparently he was so devout in his

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Speaker 4: Catholicism that he managed to convince several family members to convert,

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Speaker 4: which led to him becoming his own father's godfather. Oh wow,

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Speaker 4: if you're.

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Speaker 6: An adult convert, anyone can be your sponsor any other

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Speaker 6: baptized Catholic adult.

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Speaker 5: Every he can confirmed Catholic adult.

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Speaker 4: But it still feels weird to me. It's like, who's

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Speaker 4: going to give who presents in in that dynamic?

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Speaker 3: Or yeah, what's the Christmas dynamic? Now does he do

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Speaker 3: you get? Do you get too?

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Speaker 8: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise they've just shorted you right like someone else could it.

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Speaker 3: Any any adult Catholic could have done that, and his

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Speaker 3: dad will be cashing in now exactly.

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Speaker 4: And now now it's just an equal trait, uh sort

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Speaker 4: of yeah, because they have to give each other presents.

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Speaker 4: The image painted of Quentin in the early day of

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Speaker 4: the coverage after his death overwhelmingly attempted to paint him

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Speaker 4: as like this devout person, as a curious bystander who

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Speaker 4: was either at the wrong place at the wrong time,

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Speaker 4: or ominously targeted by left wing militants. This narrative seemed

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Speaker 4: to dominate until his Twitter accounts were found. So you

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Speaker 4: already know where this is going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agreet.

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Speaker 4: One of the first posts he bait was about his

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Speaker 4: support for the repeal of the Plevin and Guisa laws,

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Speaker 4: which are French laws that prohibit the Holocaust denial, among

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Speaker 4: other things. Subsequent posts throughout the following years were frequently antisemitic, racist, Islamophobic, fascist,

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Speaker 4: and homophobic. There will be some quotes later on. What

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Speaker 4: stood out to me most is that he seemed to

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Speaker 4: have like a very theoretical underpinning for his beliefs. This

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Speaker 4: is also a recurring theme that he seemed much more

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Speaker 4: ideologically constructed in his beliefs rather than your run of

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Speaker 4: the mill or your proud boy who are just like

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Speaker 4: straight dugs essentially.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, the French really do excel at sort

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Speaker 6: of academic anti semitism. So he's really I mean, that's

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Speaker 6: he's getting back to his French identity.

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Speaker 4: Right, exactly, Yeah, exactly. Unlike most French academics, half of

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Speaker 4: the things are completely impossible to understand. So another quote

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Speaker 4: from Quentin here, a fascist is someone who supports fascism,

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Speaker 4: someone who affirms the premacy of the state over the individual.

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Speaker 4: He wants the state to be a regenerative force, of

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Speaker 4: a moral order and to unite the nation. He opposes

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Speaker 4: liberalism and Marxism.

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Speaker 3: So if he hadn't had it that last caveat, it

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Speaker 3: could be describing like a Stalinist, right.

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Speaker 4: Like, yeah, I think that's why it was added. It

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Speaker 4: just copy pasted it.

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Speaker 5: And also, by the way, those commies, yeah all right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the anti Tanky brigade has arrived. So sometimes he

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Speaker 4: would also correct others or less in formed right wing activists,

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Speaker 4: and he said, fascists and anti fascists literally have two

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Speaker 4: opposing visions of society. Political violence is not unique to fascists.

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Speaker 4: It is intrinsic to politics when you have a bit

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Speaker 4: of character, a.

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Speaker 6: Bit of character that's oh well, well, yeah, that's I

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Speaker 6: mean ironic. I suppose, yeah, that's one or a rather

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Speaker 6: because it's not ironic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there is a broken clock moment in there in that. Like,

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Speaker 4: political violence is not unique to fascists. But then but they.

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Speaker 5: Tend to use it more.

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Speaker 6: I would like, you know, I was racking my brain

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Speaker 6: thinking about you know, sort of street deaths of this

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Speaker 6: nature that that I'm familiar with in my work about

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Speaker 6: you know, white supremacist violence.

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Speaker 5: They're usually the ones doing the killing.

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Speaker 6: Sure there's political violence not unique to fascism, but they

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Speaker 6: sure do love it.

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Speaker 4: If they have embraced it. Yeah, but when thinking about

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Speaker 4: the state and the how the state itself is like

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Speaker 4: a violence machine, absolutely sort of supports a status quo.

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Speaker 4: That's where I'm seeing the broken Clow moments and yeah, good,

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Speaker 4: did you notice a body that bit about you need

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Speaker 4: to have a bit of character because that also comes

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Speaker 4: back later On the twitters, he also commented about voting

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Speaker 4: for Fortress Europe, a fringe French political party led by

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Speaker 4: Pierre Marie Bono that made its campaign revolve around the

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Speaker 4: repeal of same sex marriage, reproductive rights and the creation

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Speaker 4: of a nationality codes and a new form of the

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Speaker 4: country's population census with additional religious and ethnic related criteria.

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Speaker 4: So like, already you know exactly what type of conservative

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Speaker 4: this guy was. There were also a lot of its

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Speaker 4: that sort of very racist terms against black and Muslim

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Speaker 4: people involving heart are words, including explicit calls from murder.

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Speaker 4: He used the acronym TND, which stands for Total Words Death.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, so I can kind of guess where he

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Speaker 6: was hanging out online.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, he's really in deep your Twitter should

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Speaker 3: have been enough of the red flag for that to

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Speaker 3: be honest. Yeah, it's true, it's probably you could get

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Speaker 3: that whole world view just from eggs dot comly everything.

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Speaker 6: But if he's reposting like T and D type content

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Speaker 6: like this is this is not a guy who is

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Speaker 6: just reading Thomas Aquinas.

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Speaker 4: No, no, you get what I'm saying. But no one

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Speaker 4: should read Thomas Aquinas to be honest. Neither Saint Augustine.

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Speaker 4: I've read both some and nonstick. What I do find

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Speaker 4: very interesting was a particular tweet in which he compared

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Speaker 4: African migration to German occupation, where he expressed his preference

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Speaker 4: for doughleco selethic blondes over blacks with large nostrils and

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Speaker 4: disproportionate lips. Oh that's great, and that that's a very

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Speaker 4: nice scrabble word for those of you that play. It's

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Speaker 4: a facilating choice of words. It comes from nineteenth century anthropology,

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Speaker 4: back when anthropology was the more problem than it is now.

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Speaker 4: It's like scientific racism pretty much. It comes from cephalometry,

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Speaker 4: the measuring of skulls and crania.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love a good caliper guy ology.

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Speaker 4: No, this was like a branching off of phrenology. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I dove into this because it was like the is

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Speaker 4: he saying, yeah, But essentially it was used to make

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Speaker 4: different races, and of course the Aryan race was the

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Speaker 4: best one. Dooley's coocephalic refers specifically to the Aryan white race.

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Speaker 4: What he essentially said is that I prefer to be

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Speaker 4: occupied by white people. So great guy. And then this

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Speaker 4: is also how I come back to like how well

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Speaker 4: read he was in this garbage, because those are not

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Speaker 4: terms that you typically find when you're you're researching Nazis

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Speaker 4: or like the Nazi discourse. It almost is like an academic.

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Speaker 5: Level of I mean, that's very French, very French.

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Speaker 4: Well it it's reminded me of like creators of yours,

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Speaker 4: Molly Richard Spencer, who I think wants I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: if I can.

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Speaker 5: Oh he does.

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Speaker 6: He does love to let you know that he's read philosophy. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: he's not a common gutter racist. He's read papers, he's

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Speaker 6: read anthropology.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well we can bleep the following word out because

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Speaker 4: I'm not too into like American discourse to know if

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Speaker 4: I can say this, But I think at some point

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Speaker 4: he referred to like people of African ancestry as ork taroons.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's an it's a.

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Speaker 6: Very obscure, like old racial slur. Like it's something like

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Speaker 6: my great great grandparents would have.

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Speaker 4: Said, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a fascinating Yeah, they love to flag so

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Speaker 3: they have read a book.

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Speaker 6: The N word is for common racists, I know, old

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Speaker 6: fashioned racials.

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Speaker 3: They genuinely do see themselves above in the hierarchy of

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Speaker 3: people who say that though like that.

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Speaker 5: With well, James has half a PhD, right.

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Speaker 6: PH he had, he had to drop out of this

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Speaker 6: PhD program to pursue a career in professional racism.

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Speaker 4: I see.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, many people in the PhD academia world

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Speaker 3: could have done that.

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Speaker 5: Pursue a career in professional racism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, the thing I had observed in the academy,

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Speaker 3: I believe that instantly. Yeah, you could argue in fact

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Speaker 3: that in some disciplines having a PhD is pursuing a

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Speaker 3: career in professional racism.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm very curious as to what those disciplines are.

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Speaker 3: In anthropology more than fifty years ago. Oh yes, oh,

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Speaker 3: de definitely it would be the obvious one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's as an anthropologist. Yeah, very much, very much true.

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Speaker 4: I could say it's it's less bad now nowadays that

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Speaker 4: it was fifty or years ago, but still there definitely

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Speaker 4: that there's still improvements to be made. And speaking of improvements,

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Speaker 4: you are the products and services that support this spot, guests,

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Speaker 4: And we're back. So we left off with Quentin being

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Speaker 4: on the twitters and saying Twitter things there, and what

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Speaker 4: you all gathered from this right now is that despite

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Speaker 4: what his friends and family and fellow fascists said, he

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Speaker 4: was definitely not as peaceful or as harmless as they

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Speaker 4: tried to portray him. In the wake of his death,

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Speaker 4: he was also getting increasingly involved with far right self

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Speaker 4: defense groups, among possible others, Active Club France.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's a Nazi group.

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Speaker 4: Oh you don't say, my poor philosophy student. With those people,

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Speaker 4: he had regular interactions with them, also with Odas Leon,

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Speaker 4: who provided combat trainings in local park. Their slogans are

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Speaker 4: nothing new or interesting. White people need to defend themselves

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Speaker 4: against migration and the left. What was interesting was one

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Speaker 4: of these training sessions was with toy knives, where they

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Speaker 4: had the practice like dueling against each other, and to

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Speaker 4: everyone's surprise, Quintin managed to defeat several people because he was.

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Speaker 5: Very He's kind of a sprawny little guy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: He studied the way of the blade to blade.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, specifically. I have not found a bench Shapiro Ninja

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Speaker 4: photo of him, but it would have been appropriate. At

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Speaker 4: this point, I'm now quoting a little bit from media

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Speaker 4: parts that also the ones who unearthed a lot of

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Speaker 4: his tweets. In the spring of twenty twenty five, Quintin

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Speaker 4: launched a small group in Bourgeois Jalieu. The ad sorry

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Speaker 4: to the French speakers.

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Speaker 5: Sounded good to me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. On May tenth in Paris, he was photographed wearing

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Speaker 4: a partially covered by a neckwarmer and participated with a

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Speaker 4: small group into a neo Nazi march that was organized

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Speaker 4: annually in homage to a member of the Bitanist group,

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Speaker 4: le'vre Francois, who died in nineteen ninety four. Aloes Bourgeois

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Speaker 4: also paid tribute to Jean Marie la Perre one year

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Speaker 4: after the death of the founder of the National Front.

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Speaker 4: They now go by the Supplement and Nacional r N.

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Speaker 4: I suppose it's a rebranding exercise, so at this point

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Speaker 4: I think amongst ourselves we can agree that he was

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Speaker 4: not a particularly innocent philosopher or good hearted, saintly person.

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Speaker 4: It feels much more like he was someone who acted

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Speaker 4: on his beliefs, a neo.

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Speaker 6: Nazi and someone who is a member of several violent

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Speaker 6: neo Nazi organizations.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that tends to be like a very strict causation

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Speaker 4: between hanging out with those groups and being one.

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Speaker 6: And I'd be very curious to know sort of what

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Speaker 6: order these things happened in. Was his conversion to Catholicism

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Speaker 6: part of his descent into these neo Nazi groups, because

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Speaker 6: the sort of traditionalist Catholicism he was involved in, Because

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Speaker 6: it looks like he was involved in Academia Christiania, which

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Speaker 6: is not that's not normal, that's not church, that's a

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Speaker 6: Nazi group.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, in so far as I can tell, I think

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Speaker 4: his conversion happened earlier, so.

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Speaker 6: Maybe a sincere conversion to Catholicism, but then he got

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Speaker 6: involved in traditionalism, maybe as part of his entry into

441
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 6: far right politics.

442
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 5: I know these things are very intertwined. Given the like this.

443
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 6: This Academia Christiana group was founded by one of the

444
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 6: founders of Generation Identity these things are overlapped completely. He

445
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 6: wasn't just going to Catholic Church. He was going to

446
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 6: a very extreme right wing anti Semitic, identitarian traditionalist subgroup.

447
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, to the Westboro Baptist Church. Pretty much.

448
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 5: French Catholicism.

449
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: French Catholicism. I don't know how many groups we've insulted

450
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 4: with that comparison.

451
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 5: It's fine, we'll have to have Italian.

452
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 4: Oh, okay, then that's good. But with that bit of

453
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 4: context about like Quentin's background behind him, we're going to

454
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 4: go to the faithful day of February twelve when he

455
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 4: was beaten. He was not fatally beaten, I have to say.

456
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 4: But more on that a tiny bit later. On the

457
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: day of February twelve, a French eupolemeritarian, a Palestinian woman

458
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 4: named Rima Hassan, was giving a speech at the Leon

459
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: Institute of Political Studies. Hassan is a member of the

460
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 4: French far left party Lace Sums French Unbowed. A counter

461
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 4: protest was announced by the far right feminist group Nemesis,

462
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 4: for which some fascist groups volunteer to do security at

463
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 4: the protest.

464
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, James, I see the look on your face. Girls

465
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 6: can do fascism too.

466
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry on the train chains.

467
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, women's rights and women's wrongs.

468
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 4: This is the only women's wrongs I will ever support.

469
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 6: I am curious what neo nazi feminism looks like, because

470
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 6: they're not just like women's fascist group. Yeah, fascist feminist group.

471
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 6: What do you think those words mean, babe? Yeah, I'm

472
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 6: gonna find out more about that on my own time.

473
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, this is going to be Money's Evening gets

474
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: logged in now.

475
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can give you some pointers.

476
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 6: I'm familiar with women doing fascist organizing, but it's usually

477
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 6: in sort of a convery, confined to a traditional female role.

478
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 5: So what are fascist feminists?

479
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: It was like the cession feminina of Francoist if if

480
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 3: that's any indication, but maybe so.

481
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was just being a gentleman providing security for

482
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 6: these girl boss Nazis.

483
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 4: Pretty much. There is a very girl boss photo I found.

484
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 4: I'll pull it up bit a bit, but yeah, they

485
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: are identitarian air quotes. Feminists blame all sexual violence on

486
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 4: people of color and Muslims. It is okay, great, Yeah,

487
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 4: we knew this was coming.

488
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 6: I bet there are white boyfriends never never missing.

489
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 3: Never they respect to women no, depending on her race.

490
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 4: And her politics, of course.

491
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 6: And in the Beauty of the White Arian Woman, James Please.

492
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 4: A founder and frequent guest on various French writing platforms,

493
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 4: Alice Cordier was the one who founded this collective. They

494
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 4: seem to have like a few hundred people in the collective,

495
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 4: but like a very small inner circle of like twelve people.

496
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: And Alice Cordier was already at the center of a controversy.

497
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 4: On March tenth this year, journalist Ricardo Pereira posted a

498
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: photo on Twitter of Alice mimicking an ASS symbol with

499
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 4: her hands. And in this photosho, wow, she's together with

500
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: former Lyon Populaire member who is allegedly now fighting with

501
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 4: the ass of a battalion in Ukraine.

502
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 5: Wow, it's all coming together.

503
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. So this is Alice doing an AS symbol

504
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 4: her hands.

505
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, okay, look at her Okay, yeah, yeah, wow.

506
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: That looks very intentional.

507
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 4: This doesn't seem like a gesture you would make by accidents.

508
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 5: Hm hmmm.

509
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: Alice called a bas question, what does this sign mean?

510
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, And just because we were talking about the

511
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: Girl Boss, can you see it?

512
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 5: Oh wow?

513
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wow, Okay, well wow they are Wow what

514
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 3: a vibe.

515
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, definite girl bosses m hm yeh. Pant suit fascism.

516
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 6: Business casual fascism for the woman in the workplace.

517
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 5: Wow.

518
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the other pantsuit nation, yeah.

519
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 5: An all white pantsuit nation.

520
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 3: Yea yeah, yeah, yeah.

521
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 6: Although two of those women don't actually look Anglo Saxon.

522
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 5: It's so interesting to me.

523
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: That's something for the French to figure out.

524
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: French identity and national identity is different.

525
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 5: It's more immigrants. Your grandparents were fine.

526
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, ladder up exactly. Now now it's starting to punch

527
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 4: down on the other people who've had We don't have

528
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 4: the opportunities my parents had. Yeah, not a phenomenon that's

529
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 4: unique to France.

530
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 5: Oh no, not at all.

531
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: I mean settle a colonial country of the United States.

532
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 4: French and colonialism, James, really no, they never would do that,

533
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 4: not the French. All those places were parts of France.

534
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 5: They're not still doing that.

535
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 4: No. I think all cheers would like to have a

536
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 4: word with you. Molly. That that was Alice from a

537
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 4: like the Nemesis Collective.

538
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a collection of my nemesies.

539
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, like that is the name I used when

540
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 4: I was fourteen and I had to make up a

541
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: character name when I was playing video games or something.

542
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: It's like, it's not original. Yeah, it is extremely teenage.

543
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 4: Like Angel of Darkness, levels of cringe, something like that. Yeah.

544
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: But what I found most frightening about these people, though,

545
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: is they seem to be incredibly media sevy and cunning

546
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: as a group. And to give you an example, in

547
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: June of twenty twenty four, several members of this group

548
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 4: infiltrated an anti far right protest in Paris. They had

549
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: brought slogans highlighting legal convictions or trials from several high

550
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: profile far left French politicians. This includes Jean Lucam Malechon,

551
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 4: who was convicted of inciting rebellion or revolution in twenty nineteen.

552
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 4: That that's for the CV, right there, the thing for

553
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: the French to make illegal.

554
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 5: That one cool thing we did, we'll never do it again,

555
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 5: never again.

556
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the best thing about France pulling the old

557
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: ladder up behind them.

558
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 4: Again exactly, there's no return to tradition if that's the

559
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: thing you're going to make illegal. And I thought these

560
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 4: guys were traditionalists exactly like same with the Dutch. We

561
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 4: can't do it anymore. But I think back in the

562
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 4: seventeen hundreds we literally clubbed some high functionary to death

563
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 4: and ate him and his brother.

564
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: We can't do it anymore, but we can't do it

565
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: anywhere just because of woke, Because of woke exactly.

566
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 4: This is the one Dutch tradition I foolheartedly support. If

567
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 4: you're upset with your elected official now well elected air quotes,

568
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 4: because I don't think they were elected, then now you know,

569
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: some casual cannibalism might just do the trick. Yeah, well,

570
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 4: if you.

571
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 6: Guys bring back clubbing out of control elected officials, we

572
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 6: could look the other way on some of your more

573
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 6: questionable Christmas traditions.

574
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 4: Oh, I know, if we could. That's not a Christmas tradition,

575
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 4: but I know what you mean.

576
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to look the other way on

577
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: that one. No, okay, the chimney sweep, guys, it's just

578
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: the chimney sweep.

579
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: It's fine.

580
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's uh, that's what's called an Easter egg for listeners.

581
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: You can google that in your own don't google it. Yeah,

582
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: you're going to see some racist ship.

583
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 5: Back to this guy getting beaten to death.

584
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 4: Not to death, just being beaten he did die. He

585
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: did die, but apparently when everyone had flat he refused

586
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: to go to the hospital despite several non activitist bystanders

587
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 4: like emphasiagic, like, hey, you should go to the hospital,

588
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 4: and he did not. He walked for at least one

589
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: and a half kilometers like a little more than a

590
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 4: mile for the Americans, thank you, and he he then

591
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 4: collapsed and he was in a coma for two days

592
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 4: in the hospital, and then on Valentine's Day he died.

593
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: A real bummer.

594
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 4: So yeah, and that's also why I'm going to say,

595
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 4: like that he wasn't fatally beaten, because I don't know

596
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: if well.

597
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 6: So, I mean, at least in American law, he did

598
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 6: die of injuries inflicted from that beating, So you would

599
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 6: say the people who inflicted that beating on him did

600
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 6: cause his death.

601
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I mean under American law.

602
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 6: Like, if you get shot today and you die from

603
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 6: a disability from that shooting ten years from now, you

604
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 6: were murdered.

605
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 4: Yeah. I hate that. I'm surprised by this.

606
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 6: Because you would not be dead but for those injuries.

607
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 6: If he had not been hit in the head, yeah,

608
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 6: he would not have died.

609
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: Indeed, you can in fact not be the person doing

610
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 3: the shooting and still be chied for murder in US

611
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: as someone.

612
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 6: That's a different problem. The felony murder problem is very

613
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 6: serious here. But but no, I mean, he would not

614
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 6: have died had he not been beaten.

615
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 5: So he was beaten to death.

616
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 6: It was just that it would It is perhaps possible

617
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 6: that he could have survived.

618
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, he had, he attempted to survive.

619
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: I don't know if he would have survived if he

620
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 4: had called if hits, called an ambulance straight after.

621
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 5: That's the other thing.

622
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 6: That's the other thing is if he had that, if

623
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 6: he had that much probably intracranial bleeding that he collapsed

624
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 6: pretty soon afterwards.

625
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 5: He may have died regardless.

626
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 4: We'll never know, probably.

627
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 6: Right, but I would say he was fatally beaten because

628
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 6: he would not have died if the beating, at least

629
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 6: under American under American law, that would be the case.

630
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 5: I don't know about in France.

631
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: It's probably worth noting that, like the American phenomenon of

632
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: not wanting to go in an ambulance to hospital because you.

633
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 4: Know that you will have life altering medical.

634
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: Bills like this is believe me, as someone who did

635
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: not grow up in the United States and now lives here.

636
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 3: Is a unique and quite disturbing character trait of people

637
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 3: living in the United States, like because.

638
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 4: People are thinking like.

639
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I personally have not gotten an ambulance when

640
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: I should have done in the United States because I

641
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: knew that I wouldn't be able to pay the bills.

642
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 5: Oh, if I'm conscious and able to walk on my

643
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 5: own two feet, I'm not getting an animalance.

644
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

645
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: This is just just so people understand that this is

646
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: not a thing that people tend to do as much,

647
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 3: at least not for that reason in Europe.

648
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 5: He just don't want to be a pussy.

649
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 4: I guess, I don't know. I can also imagine that maybe,

650
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: like after authorities were alerted, that maybe he would have

651
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 4: been visited by police in the hospital due to the.

652
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 5: Fight, right, because he was involved in a conflict.

653
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 4: Yes, And I have some photos later on, like images

654
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 4: taken by I think a journalist where you just see

655
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 4: the black leads like fascists with like iron bars in

656
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 4: their hands and everything. So I would say that the

657
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 4: self defense motive is very indefensible. You know what, let's

658
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 4: take an ad break, you know who who won't beat

659
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 4: you to death with a bar, to death with a

660
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 4: bar allegedly.

661
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure none of our advertisers have ever beaten

662
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 6: someone to death with a pipe.

663
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 5: M Oh no, I can't guarantee that.

664
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 4: A mining company who can say.

665
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 5: They will not beat you the listener to death. Probably.

666
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 4: I was about to plug the Washington Highway state patrol,

667
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 4: but I'm not sure if I can do that. They

668
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 4: can get to be in the Netherlands some safe Yeah.

669
00:34:50,840 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 4: That and we're back unbeaten with iron bars. So when

670
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 4: we left off, we were supposed to talk about more

671
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 4: about nemesis, so we'll continue there. Yeah, they were carrying

672
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 4: slogans with like accusations and trials of like left prominent

673
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 4: left wing politicians, but they had them covered up with

674
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 4: like regular slogans. So at some point they unfilled their

675
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 4: actual slogans and they repeatedly chanted to the crowd of

676
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 4: antifar right protesters, you're not feminists. This action only took

677
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 4: about two minutes, a combination of chants being sped on

678
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 4: and the general hostility that I imagine followed very quickly.

679
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 5: I'm feeling general hostility and I'm not even there now.

680
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: Now what you've seen the Girl Boss photo. Now, so

681
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 4: you know why that's why you feel hostile. Maybe it's

682
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 4: just the pantsuits. Those two minutes were enough though, because

683
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 4: they had the content and the images that they were after.

684
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 4: Also brought bodyguard to protect them, which again it's this

685
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 4: this saviness and this this cunningness that I said earlier,

686
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 4: like they know they're going to be provoked and possibly attacked,

687
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 4: so they're already preemptively bringing bodyguards.

688
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 5: Well, they're not going to be provoked. They were going

689
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 5: there too.

690
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 6: They went they went to someone else's rally to do

691
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 6: a provocative stunt, and so they it makes sense, you'd

692
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 6: if I was going to if I was going to

693
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 6: cause problems on purpose, I'll bring your bodyguard.

694
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, I'll make sure to watch out for you

695
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 4: if you ever bring a bodyguard and I see you.

696
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 4: But yeah, those two minutes they proved enough. They had

697
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 4: the content and the images they were after, which were

698
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 4: quickly published by far right magazines. Social media accounts for

699
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 4: members of the collective were later interviewed by c News,

700
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 4: and Cordier herself was hosted on europe One. Both of

701
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 4: these stations are owned by Vincente Bolour, who is sort

702
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 4: of rupert murdering portions of the French media ecosystem. So

703
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 4: again not surprising to anyone, and in so far as

704
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: I can tell, this is also nemesis preferred method of

705
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 4: getting attention. There are modus operandi, the big high visibility

706
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 4: locations or events where they provoke their opponents through their messaging,

707
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 4: and when confronted by people opposing their racism and their views, they'll.

708
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 5: Play the victim cards, classic maneuver.

709
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, Yeah, and it's the.

710
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 6: Best way to get positive attention while not actually having

711
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 6: enough numbers to hold your own rally that anyone would notice.

712
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 4: Exactly. But again we're coming back to this. This feels

713
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 4: much more sevy and thought out than Oh.

714
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 6: Absolutely, it's a clever strategy, but it's like the media

715
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 6: keeps falling for it, Like you don't have to interview

716
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 6: the head of this little Nazi group just because they

717
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 6: put on a nice outfit.

718
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 5: It's the Richard Spencer problem all over again.

719
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, just because they dress nice doesn't mean just.

720
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 5: Because he owns a little suit jacket.

721
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 4: Now, this is why I don't own any suits, just

722
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 4: to avoid being associated. In November twenty nineteen, they infiltrated

723
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 4: a Paris March against sexual and gender based violence, and

724
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 4: then they brandish science referring to foreign rapists.

725
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 5: I hate these women.

726
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, you'd have to have a woman on so that

727
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 6: we could so someone can say, are dumb bitches?

728
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 4: It's legal for me to say yes. In hindsight, I'm

729
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 4: very glad that you're here to say those things of alli,

730
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 4: because I won't talk about women's wrongs, but you can,

731
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 4: which I mean.

732
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 6: It's just it's so cynical and so nasty to show

733
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 6: up to an anti rape march to displace the blame

734
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 6: for sexual violence onto immigrants, to just like, yeah, ooh,

735
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 6: gross gross.

736
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's like ninety percent of right wing politics

737
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 4: the moment.

738
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 6: Right, But for the women themselves to be doing because

739
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 6: you see men do it all the time, but these

740
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 6: women know better, because I guarantee you at least half

741
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 6: of those women have been sexually assaulted and it probably

742
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 6: wasn't by an immigrant, like you know better, you know better.

743
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 4: Let's call it. Yeay says she she suffered from a

744
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 4: sexual assault by immigrants, but there's no way to prove

745
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 4: it because it was allegedly when she was thirteen or fourteen,

746
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 4: So it's just this after defect justification that you can't

747
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 4: prove or disproof either way. And even even if we

748
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 4: were going to say, okay, you know what, we'll take

749
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 4: that argumented face value.

750
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 5: I won't.

751
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 4: That is your prerogative.

752
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 6: No, I just you see, it reminds me, It mains

753
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 6: me so much of this. This funny little you Nazi

754
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 6: con artist that was she testified in the Oklahoma City trials.

755
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 5: She had this like her origin story was.

756
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 6: Like, oh, like I became a racist because I was

757
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 6: listening to racist radio shows while I was recovering. Because

758
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 6: I was attacked by a gang of black teenagers and

759
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 6: I broke my legs. She broke her legs because she

760
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 6: got drunk at the park and she jumped off a

761
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 6: giant Crucidex set up for a passion place.

762
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, so.

763
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 6: This whole like, oh, my origin story is like I

764
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 6: was assaulted by a gang of people of color, Like

765
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 6: I believe you anyway.

766
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 4: Completely valid. But what I meant to say is like,

767
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 4: even if that were true, there's no argument to like

768
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 4: generalize it to an entire population.

769
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 5: No, or just show up to the anti rape march

770
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 5: to cause a scene.

771
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 3: Girl, go home, yeah, you'd think, Yeah, if you've been

772
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 3: subject to sexual assault, you would want to be in

773
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: solidarity with other people, maybe make sexual assaults stop happening,

774
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 3: like period, not focus on a subset of human beings.

775
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 4: But James, what you're forgetting there is that sexual violence

776
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 4: is okay if it's done by white people. Okay according

777
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 4: to Nemesis.

778
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 5: And in a biblical way, you know, within the bounds

779
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 5: of marriage.

780
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, in the holy bounds of matrimony. So yeah, what

781
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 4: this group essentially does is they tie feminism or their

782
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: brand of it. Yeah, thank you for the air quotes. Yeah,

783
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 4: they tie it to their nationalism. But they focus solely

784
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 4: on sexual violence, and even then only the violence that

785
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 4: is connected to like migrants.

786
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 5: So it's no feminism at all. It's just it's a lie.

787
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 4: You won't be surprised that they're awfully silent about equal

788
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 4: pay or abortion rights.

789
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 5: Well, I imagine they're probably anti abortion.

790
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 4: How did you.

791
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 3: Guess that, boy, depends who's getting the abortion.

792
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 4: I would assume I will send them like an email

793
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: to ask for a verification, to specify I need more coverage.

794
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 3: That's the way we should respond to this exactly.

795
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 4: And I want to know which abortions are okay and

796
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 4: which are not, so I can accurately make you know

797
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 4: a herrowing story of it. Anyway, This exploitation of women's

798
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 4: issues by far right groups to proliferate their bullshits worldview

799
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 4: and pull people in is called femo nationalism. It was

800
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 4: coined by the British sociologist Sarah R. Feris in twenty seventeen,

801
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 4: which might be a broader topic worth exploring in the future.

802
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm very interested you too.

803
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 6: People have been complaining that I never talk about we're

804
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 6: little girls.

805
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 4: Well now you can, Ellis Cordier. For now. It is

806
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 4: love to see this what they're doing as some sort

807
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 4: of bucked up arranged marriage of feminism and ethnic nationalism

808
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 4: that views gender issues explicitly through the lens of ethnicity. Yeah,

809
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 4: and as I said before, they're notably very quiet on

810
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 4: bodily autonomy, workplace equality, equal opportunity, abortion, and maternity care.

811
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 6: So like actual sort of safety and well being and

812
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 6: equality for women, the things that I think of as feminism.

813
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Like the maternity care was like that sprung

814
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 4: out to be because like in.

815
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 5: My feminism, I don't die in childbirth.

816
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 4: Because it's woke.

817
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 3: They want to return to tradition and have it's eighty

818
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 3: percent of job as result in one or other party dying.

819
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 4: Ah, great stuff, it's beautiful. Yeah.

820
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 5: I guess if you were trying to invent feminism, but

821
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 5: the only text you had is the fourteen words, this

822
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 5: is what you would get.

823
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: You had a dictionary with the word feminism and the

824
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: fourteen word, it's that's all he had to.

825
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 5: Go David Lane, famous feminist.

826
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guarantee you that Alice Cordier has said the

827
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 4: fourteen words on probably multiple occasions. It's a garbage group

828
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 4: of people, and I hope they have to hiccups the

829
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 4: rest of their life.

830
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 5: Oh that's hurtful. I like that.

831
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pretty good one.

832
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 4: And with that, that is the end of part one.

833
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: If you'd like to find out more about Quentin and

834
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: various other French fascists, please join us again tomorrow.

835
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 4: We're picking back up at the rally where Quentin was

836
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 4: in the capacity of security for Nemesis. At some point

837
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 4: a confrontation developed between anti fascists and brown shirts. Clearly

838
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 4: the instigator depends on the political orientation of the media

839
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 4: that reports on it.

840
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 6: But we've all seen scuffles like this. It's just they

841
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 6: don't usually divorce to a point where someone dies, like

842
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 6: I can I can imagine. I don't know, I can

843
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 6: imagine the outbreak of this scuffle because we've all seen it.

844
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not going to like litigate on who started

845
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 4: or who not that I'll never know and it doesn't.

846
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 5: Matter because it doesn't matter.

847
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. But I found an independent while left fleaning a

848
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 4: medio website, contre Attique. They published several pieces on the

849
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 4: events with claims that the fascists started to roll. I

850
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 4: find that one personally also more credible because they have

851
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 4: multiple videos of photos of the far right being there

852
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 4: with weapons, including iron bars, crutches, motorcycle helmets, and at

853
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 4: least one smoker hagge.

854
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 6: I mean, they showed up to someone else's event to

855
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 6: disrupt it, to cause a problem. When they got in

856
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 6: the middle of it, they brought weapons. It's hard to

857
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 6: say who started the fight, but I can tell who

858
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 6: wanted to exactly.

859
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: Like. I've seen security at events and protests, but I've

860
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 4: never okay, unless they were cops, I've never seen them

861
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 4: carrying weapons. Oh I have.

862
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 6: Well, that's more common in the idea states it's very

863
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 6: common here. Oh wow, okay, oh is that a pipe

864
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 6: in his hands? Yes, it is, so he's wearing a

865
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 6: balaclava and carrying a pipe.

866
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

867
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a great look, kind of classic. You're

868
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 3: a nuts, you fit skinny jeans.

869
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 4: The sneakers always the sneakers.

870
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 5: Always do one of those little unders.

871
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, of course I got to pick a brand that. Yeah,

872
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: since the beginning. Maybe some pumas in that.

873
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 4: Of course, this pumas in there. Here's another pictures like

874
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 4: you can also see the motorcycle helmet in here in

875
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 4: disguise hands. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, most.

876
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 6: Like a helmet's great because it's you put it on

877
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 6: to protect your head, or you can hit somebody with

878
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 6: it because he's holding it in his hand.

879
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 5: He is not wearing it. That's a weapon.

880
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, but you have the plausible deniability of I rode

881
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 6: my motorcycle here or this is for defense.

882
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 4: That's what I also find. They often use like things

883
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 4: that you could really have with Like they also use

884
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 4: belts or sticks and stuff that you could carry with

885
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 4: shack poles, slack poles, like stuff that you could carry

886
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 4: with you with you without it being as immediately recognized

887
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 4: as a weapon, Like if you were carrying night.

888
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 6: After you use it as a weapon, it doesn't look

889
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 6: like premeditation because I just had this, Yeah, the pipe.

890
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 6: I don't know why you would just have a whole pipe.

891
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 6: Now he was honest, way to do some plumbing Mario

892
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 6: and Luigi.

893
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe he found maybe he found it.

894
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 4: I can imagine myself carrying a sledgehammer, be like, no, officer,

895
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 4: this is my.

896
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 5: I was on my way to break big rocks into

897
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 5: small rocks.

898
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, I'm a fan. I don't think that would fly,

899
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 4: to be honest, but those I wanted to share as well.

900
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 5: So he did show up with a pipe.

901
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 4: That wasn't him. I didn't think he wasn't pipe that.

902
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 5: Was that was one of his friends.

903
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 4: That was one of that was one of the far

904
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 4: right activist that was present there. One media account sat

905
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 4: he was wearing a blue hoodie Quentin and I haven't

906
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 4: seen that in the pictures that I could find.

907
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 6: Well, it looks like the only confirmed photograph of him

908
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 6: is that one that was provided by his family's lawyer

909
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 6: to the media, So we don't know if any of

910
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 6: those other photos even are him right now.

911
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 4: There's also not that much footage of it, to be honest.

912
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 6: Right, but I guess there is the footage of him

913
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 6: like lying on the ground, but I mean like, yeah,

914
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 6: like the only picture of his face is that one

915
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 6: that was provided to the media by his family and.

916
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 4: So far as I found, Yes, Yeah, and then and

917
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 4: one of the few of the articles, there's like one

918
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 4: where he's like half ballacloth out up. But then that

919
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 4: was at some Nazi rally in Lyon, So it still

920
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 4: wasn't his first Nazi No, it was. It was not

921
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 4: okay in any case, I think you would have a

922
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 4: hard time defending that there was purely self defense on

923
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 4: part of the security of that counter demonstration.

924
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 6: Again, no one is saying that he deserved to be

925
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 6: beaten to death. We're just trying to figure out what

926
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 6: happened here.

927
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Concra Attik also published another article on

928
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 4: February twentieth about acts of violence from fascist militants in

929
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 4: just Lyon. There had been around one hundred and two

930
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 4: acts of violence as of twenty ten. Yeah, that's one

931
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 4: of the spots. From what I understand, there's lots of

932
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 4: groups that formed in response to like the fascist threats

933
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 4: that were there, and also a lot of the fascist

934
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 4: violence is them just harassing brown people or like Muslim people,

935
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 4: so it's hard to get a proper estimate. But I

936
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 4: found this one very detailed. They mentioned like from the

937
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 4: top of their head, like twenty five different instances. The

938
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 4: article for that will be in the show notes so

939
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 4: people can read it themselves. Okay, now I'll cite this

940
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 4: from France info dot fr eye witness accounts from residents

941
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 4: who saw the flight fighting take place. Christine also witnessed

942
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 4: the violence. I saw a fight over there with lots

943
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 4: of young people. They were hitting each other, hitting each other,

944
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 4: hitting each other, and then I saw a young men fall,

945
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 4: She recounts. Maxim also saw the attackers flee. They shouted

946
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 4: disperse when they saw I think that they might have

947
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: hit them hard. They went off into all the streets,

948
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 4: got out of their cars. Some guys on scooters stopped.

949
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 4: They put him, I assume Quentin in the recovery position,

950
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 4: The resident explains. Neighbors then came to aid the injured.

951
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 4: Another neighbor, Willem, saw him get up after being beaten.

952
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 4: I went outside. I saw someone with blood on his hands.

953
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 4: He looked a bit dazed. He was just standing, but

954
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 4: he refused to go to the hospital, even though they

955
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 4: offered to. I just saw the people talking to him

956
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 4: who told him to go to the hospital in any case,

957
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 4: but the certaines iss that he refused.

958
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 6: So this was a much large It wasn't like ten

959
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 6: on one. It was like a group versus a group.

960
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 4: It was a group versus a group.

961
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 5: Year it was a melee.

962
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, I'm not sure which article exactly was, but

963
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 4: said that the fighting went on for like five minutes.

964
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 6: Which is a long. It doesn't sound like along, but

965
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 6: for a fight, that's like a long. It's a lot

966
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 6: of minutes to be fighting.

967
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, fighting is normally brief fast, especially fighting of this

968
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 3: level of violence.

969
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 5: Especially if you're getting hit the head with a pie or.

970
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 4: A motorcycle helmet.

971
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a little video of it, Like I've seen

972
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 3: a couple of very small videos of the actual confrontation.

973
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 3: It's not like it gives the impression like because of

974
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: the big repercussions. This was like a huge set piece,

975
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: but it's not. It's like what three people maybe at most.

976
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it was just like in some streets it

977
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 4: looks like street corner. Yeah, it wasn't a battle of

978
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 4: thermopili or something. Yeah, I'm sponsored by not being able

979
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 4: to pronounce foreign words outside of English.

980
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 6: Well, you could just tell us that that's how it's

981
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 6: said in Dutch and we would all have to believe you,

982
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 6: because we're not going to find out.

983
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 4: I'm conf use that as a caveat the next time.

984
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 6: That's how we say it in the Netherlands, stupid Americans.

985
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 4: Yes, I'll be saved by the fact that like Denmark

986
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 4: and the Netherlands, nobody speaks to Dutch, or that they

987
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 4: confused Danish with Dutch, which is also very funny.

988
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 3: But also, yeah, I did see some kind of funny

989
00:50:58,360 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: posts regarding Greenland with.

990
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 4: Ah, okay, then we're at and entering a whole other discussion. Yeah.

991
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 4: But anyway, after the fighting, about half an hour and

992
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 4: a half later, in the full Chiron district on the

993
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 4: banks of the San Quentin was evacuated in serious condition

994
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 4: by firefighters. To get there, he had to walk more

995
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 4: than a kilometer and a half, cross two bridges, and

996
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 4: traverse the Lyon Peninsula. His route between the attack and

997
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 4: his arrival at the hospital is unknown.

998
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 6: Sound so sounds like he's just sort of staggered off disoriented?

999
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 6: Is something like that because he was probably bleeding in

1000
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 6: his brain.

1001
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, he like he has a TVI, right, I would imagine.

1002
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 4: So I just find it incredibly sad. To be honest, it.

1003
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 6: Is sad, but also the like so like these bystanders

1004
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 6: are saying, hey, man, like, let's get you an ambulance

1005
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 6: to get to the hospital. Where were his friends that

1006
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 6: he walked off alone?

1007
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1008
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 6: Where were the guys he came with? Were the guys

1009
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 6: that were fighting on his side? How did he manage

1010
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 6: to walk off alone? So these people want to make

1011
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 6: him a martyr, but like they're the ones, Yeah, let

1012
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 6: him die.

1013
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 4: This is also why I'm like, I'm not going to

1014
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 4: say he was it's Lee Beatson, because like, who knows.

1015
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 6: It sounds like a lot of people have some responsibility here.

1016
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 6: If you die, if you die after being hit in

1017
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 6: the head, the person who hit you in the head

1018
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 6: killed you, that's it works. But like, why did his

1019
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 6: friends let him walk away alone?

1020
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, knowing he was injured.

1021
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 6: Right, No, even if you weren't injured, you never walk

1022
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 6: away from something like this alone because someone could follow

1023
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 6: you and keep beating you.

1024
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, if there are people who are trying to hurt you.

1025
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 3: The best time for them to do it is when

1026
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 3: you're on your own.

1027
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 5: Like you never leave an action alone.

1028
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole thing.

1029
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 3: Like I guess I should just say, like, I don't know,

1030
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: when you fucking hit people in the head, this is

1031
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 3: one of the consequences that is on the list of

1032
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: possible consequences. Like, I fucking hate people who can hit

1033
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 3: people in the head come from a place in the

1034
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 3: world where like that kind of violence is more common

1035
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: because guns are less accessible to people, and like, yeah,

1036
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 3: people are going to fucking die sometimes when you do that,

1037
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 3: Like it's serious.

1038
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 6: You don't have to inten to have killed them, Like

1039
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 6: you one get punch to the head in an otherwise

1040
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 6: very fair, normal fight, Yeah, someone could die.

1041
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, people have died from a single punch to the

1042
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 3: head that started to fight and ended their life at

1043
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 3: the same time. I think people sometimes, you know, you

1044
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 3: watch boxing or wrestling or whatever. Then you see people

1045
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 3: fighting very hard and not dying. But like you find

1046
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 3: someone with your bare knuckles to their bare head, and

1047
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 3: they could die, even if it's only once, if he

1048
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 3: didn't mean to you.

1049
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just one one small vein in one vein

1050
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 4: that gets nicked that can cause off a whole lot

1051
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 4: of trouble in the head. Yeah, and even if it's

1052
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 4: not death, then there's still.

1053
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 3: Like life altering consequences.

1054
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 5: Be careful with your brain, kids.

1055
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is why you need to wear a helmet's

1056
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 4: on your head instead of in a hand.

1057
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 5: It's just using it as a bludgeon.

1058
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and only come back to light. I find

1059
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 4: it sad because it's a death that may may have

1060
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 4: been preventable with like proper medical intervention, also with like

1061
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 4: friends that should have backed him.

1062
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty sad that this guy felt like he

1063
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 3: was part of something and those guys left him to

1064
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 3: die alone on the street like.

1065
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 6: It's another Now they're trying to take his death and

1066
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 6: profit from it politically.

1067
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 3: And then yeah, he's only useful to him when he's

1068
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 3: fucking dead.

1069
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, he's he's a little horse vessel.

1070
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a nature of fascism.

1071
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's almost exactly like Charlie Kirk, where he

1072
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 4: was more useful as a martyr than when he was

1073
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 4: just a propagandist.

1074
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 5: But then he turned out not to even be good

1075
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 5: at that.

1076
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 4: I don't think we can fault him for being about

1077
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 4: martyr for all the things. Of all the things we

1078
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 4: can criticize Charlie Kirk for, that is not one of them.

1079
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not on him.

1080
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 6: Right, But I think in order to have a successful

1081
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 6: martyrdom you have to have someone to blame, and there

1082
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 6: was just not enough publicity around the guy who actually

1083
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 6: killed Charlie Kirk, you know what I mean, Like, you know,

1084
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 6: horse Vessel was killed by communists, so we're mad at communists,

1085
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 6: but like.

1086
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: There was an attempt to pin that on the trans community, right,

1087
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 3: like it didn't see the landing and it didn't work.

1088
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 3: Should say that guy is accused of in Karli Church

1089
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 3: as well?

1090
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 6: Exactly I don't know, but that the right is constantly

1091
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 6: trying to create a horse Vessel and it just kind

1092
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 6: of never works.

1093
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1094
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's how the Spanish Civil War started

1095
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 3: as well, right, like they it was probably easier in

1096
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 3: an age with less information and like party propaganda.

1097
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 6: I mean, these days, these days, we would all be

1098
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 6: talking about like was horse vessel opinion?

1099
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 5: It kind of seems like maybe he.

1100
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 4: Would have had a Twitter account and we would.

1101
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 5: Have and we would have said, what was he doing?

1102
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 4: With all those girls, or we would have found his

1103
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 4: racist tweets. Oh well, that would have.

1104
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 6: It seems like a local the head of his local

1105
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 6: strum up ti Long. Of course he had racist tweets,

1106
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 6: but being a pimp is not conducive to traditional Aryan values.

1107
00:55:44,360 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 4: Please, okay, okay, okay, there goes my career change. I'm

1108
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 4: now going into the last section, which is about what

1109
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 4: happened here in your trekt. They attempted to martyr him

1110
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 4: and the fed Netherlands. It said, we're coming to the

1111
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 4: AKU to hold the vigil for him. The Netherlands is

1112
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 4: an umbrella terms not the perfect word. There's lots of

1113
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 4: local defense chapters, but they have like more where they organized.

1114
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 4: But they also have like a main telegram group. So

1115
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 4: these are people who explicitly came to U treckt to

1116
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 4: hold this visual. The reason why, I think is because

1117
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 4: they think aku ACU stands for Antifa Center you trecked.

1118
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 4: Oh wow, yes, it used to be. It used to

1119
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 4: be a former auto garage back in the eighties. I think,

1120
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 4: so it says for auto center. You tracked.

1121
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 5: Oh my god, yes.

1122
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 3: I'm at the auto shop. I'm at the Anti PA center.

1123
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 3: In a combination auto show at Center.

1124
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 6: I'm at the Four Seasons total landscape, that's.

1125
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 4: What it is. Yeah. Ah, but it was a pretty

1126
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 4: big deal because for reasons that I still can't understand,

1127
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 4: Like the mayor didn't like instantly ban this very obvious

1128
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 4: intimidation at ten ten threats hold official in your backyard

1129
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 4: or something. It's like, there's absolutely no reason to travel

1130
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 4: to U Trek to hold that visual other than the

1131
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 4: being threatening and intimidating.

1132
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 5: But I think that's part of why they love trying

1133
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 5: to make these martyrs is because.

1134
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 6: It again, it's this like being the victim, like they

1135
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 6: killed one of us. How can this isn't a politicism

1136
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 6: political you can't ban our event, right, this isn't a

1137
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 6: Nazi rally, it's a vigil. Yeah, it's this victimhood thing

1138
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 6: and it does make you harder to suppress.

1139
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I still find it unbelievable as the local authorities

1140
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 4: didn't do it.

1141
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 5: It's tacky.

1142
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 4: I was also there that evening because when I do

1143
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 4: activist stuff, I mostly do like if like first eight

1144
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 4: at events or protests.

1145
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 5: Very noble, nobody's got to do it.

1146
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 4: I'm not a confrontational person, so yeah, I'll give you

1147
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 4: a band aid later. That's that's that's where where I'm good.

1148
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 4: You're a non combatant exactly. And I actually came from

1149
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: the office that day, so I was also looking very inconspicuous,

1150
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 4: which was good because I ended up standing between my

1151
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 4: left all all the anti fascists that are my right,

1152
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 4: all the black lift fascists, and I was like and

1153
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 4: then two lines of.

1154
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 5: Like riot, I'm just a band aid.

1155
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 8: GI.

1156
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like get in a narrow alley. So I left,

1157
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 4: I'm enclosed. On my right, I'm enclosed. And then this

1158
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 4: girl boss cop comes up to me like, do you

1159
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,479
Speaker 4: want to get out of here? I was like, yes,

1160
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 4: it seems like it could go wrong, and then she

1161
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 4: guided me through the fucking fascists.

1162
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, I like to I like to be a lot

1163
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 6: closer to an exit than nassively good are you?

1164
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 4: So it's it's even worse because I was I was

1165
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 4: with someone who was also doing first aids, and we

1166
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 4: tried to get back to the location and we accidentally

1167
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 4: went into an lead it at a dead end, and

1168
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 4: when we turned around not ceased walking there. I was like,

1169
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 4: oh fuck, no, yeah, but I think they just thought

1170
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 4: that it was a way around and had just followed

1171
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 4: also because they thought it was a way through. They

1172
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 4: didn't actually like control us or anything.

1173
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 5: That makes my tummy hurt maic. I don't like that.

1174
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 4: It was one of the most scary moments. I'm going

1175
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 4: to admit that. Anyway. The fan Netherlands mostly carried the

1176
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 4: picture I sent you with, like the bad AI sketch

1177
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 4: of a photo of Quincon.

1178
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm sorry. If I ever get.

1179
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 6: Murdered and you're holding a rally for my memory, use

1180
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 6: a real fucking picture.

1181
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 4: Of Yeah, this is really okay they're.

1182
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 6: Using they're using a fake picture of a more handsome guy.

1183
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, the other didn't flact that.

1184
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 6: You said yes, Like I'm saying, like, use a good

1185
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 6: picture of me, you know, like a cute picture, but

1186
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 6: like they're using a fake.

1187
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 5: Picture of a more handsome guy because this guy was

1188
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 5: weird looking.

1189
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the person who is on the flag and the

1190
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 3: BBC I had to go, that's just straight up not him.

1191
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 3: It's not a it's not a guy who looks like him.

1192
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 4: It's not a.

1193
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 3: Rendering of him by AI.

1194
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 6: That is like old school German propaganda of like an Aryan. Yeah,

1195
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 6: they're like an Aryan specimen, where like this was like

1196
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 6: a skinny little guy who's half.

1197
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 4: A Hispanic Latino Latino.

1198
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like it's just disrespectful to his memory to whitewash

1199
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 6: him and make him more handsome.

1200
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 5: You're not a good enough martyr.

1201
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 6: We had to find a better looking guy to pretend

1202
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 6: was you so we can profit politically from your murder.

1203
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 4: What pictures of you do we need to do you

1204
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 4: molly in the events?

1205
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I should, I should, I should pre yeah.

1206
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 4: Exactly, And then you can also select which which photo

1207
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 4: we're going to use, on which we're going to put

1208
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 4: on the banners.

1209
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 6: But it's like they don't actually care about this man.

1210
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 6: Most people holding those banners don't know that's not him.

1211
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a very empty performance.

1212
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 6: I'm performing outrage over the like the theoretical death of

1213
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 6: a guy whose politics were similar to mine.

1214
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 4: Yeah. But defense Netherlands, they also carried what we call

1215
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 4: the princess flag in the Netherlands.

1216
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 6: Princess flag, yeah, the flag of the Prince, oh princess.

1217
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's a it's a variational on the flag

1218
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 4: that we have right now, but it was co opted

1219
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 4: by the Dutch National Socialist Party prior and during World

1220
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 4: War Two, so it's now heavily associated with those groups,

1221
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 4: and that is the flag they choose to carry.

1222
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 6: I'm just skeptical of all flags, Like, unless I'm one

1223
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 6: hundred percent sure what I'm looking at, I'm skeptical of

1224
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 6: a flag.

1225
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 5: Because usually a guy that like, I don't know what

1226
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 5: you're doing? What does that mean?

1227
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 3: It is always telling when people are like, oh, this

1228
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 3: nationalist flag is the flag of our nation. Is not

1229
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 3: nationalist enough? Let me let me find an obscure one

1230
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 3: from the past. It has only been revived by fascist Yeah.

1231
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 6: Like anyone in South Africa carrying something other than the

1232
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 6: current official South African flags.

1233
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, because there's a lot of variations and they're all about.

1234
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 4: Oh, well, well we're getting to those variations. Baly, because

1235
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 4: like the flag flag was not only used by collaborators,

1236
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 4: but they've also added because just a alluding to like

1237
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 4: the collaborationists, it's not enough. They added a voc logo

1238
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 4: from the Dutch East is in the company onto the.

1239
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 3: What that honestly that came from fucking nowhere? God, just

1240
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 3: like these people fucking hated people who weren't white as well,

1241
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:22,479
Speaker 3: Like just.

1242
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 4: Sorry, that is incredible or evil. Yeah, it's amazing.

1243
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't believe we've opened that kind of went,

1244
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 3: because there's gonna be that's gonna happen in Britain now.

1245
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 3: Unfortunately I've put it in the chat like something like that.

1246
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 5: I mean it's just like comedically.

1247
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 3: Fuck, it's a ship logo as well. It looks like

1248
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 3: a ranch brand. It looks like somebody didn't want their

1249
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 3: cows to go missing and they did that.

1250
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 5: I would stamp that on a horse for sure.

1251
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 4: It probably was probably also on people. You're going to

1252
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 4: say that unfortunate.

1253
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 3: What the fuck though, Like, I can't believe they did that.

1254
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 3: Is that a thing on the Dutch right, like like

1255
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: make dutchy c India company great.

1256
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 5: And nostalgic for the dusty dident. My loyalty lies with

1257
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 5: the Duchies.

1258
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's such a niche.

1259
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: This is what you get from the European ultra nationalism

1260
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 3: is these incredibly niche racism.

1261
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 5: I'm a monarchist for spice trading.

1262
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's this is something they actually do. I've

1263
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 4: seen it a multiple like far eyed rallies where they're

1264
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 4: just waving that shit and like that rocks. Yeah, it's

1265
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 4: like the poorest dog whistle that any normal human being

1266
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 4: can also hear. Like, okay, you you long back to

1267
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 4: the days of like killing hundreds of thousands of people

1268
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 4: for the spices that we don't use in our cuisine.

1269
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, that is so.

1270
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 5: Niche, it's so good. That's so I hope those guys

1271
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 5: get pressed into servius on a ship.

1272
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, they might be shipped iran soon. Who knows.

1273
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 5: Like enjoy sailing around the world. You love it so much, going.

1274
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 4: To bangal by sale.

1275
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you love fucking racism. Getting scurvy to own the lives.

1276
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 4: You know, they will get scirvy because they won't be

1277
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 4: eating fruit.

1278
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they're exclusively eating uh what what the Americans

1279
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 3: call French fries because of the erasure.

1280
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 4: Of Dutch cultural brilliant. That's true. They are more like

1281
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 4: fermented to meat or something, just exclusively Yeah. Because return

1282
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 4: But yeah, anyway, with the rally, in the end, nothing

1283
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 4: really happens. There were some chances going up, up and down.

1284
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 4: I think there were only two arrests for insulting police officers.

1285
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 4: I think one on either side.

1286
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 5: But that's illegal there, Yes, oh I can never go.

1287
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 3: You can also just avoid police that's that's the thing. Wow,

1288
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 3: they won't they won't immediately ch issue with a gun here.

1289
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 3: But I've never had any experience with American cops, so

1290
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 3: there's no comparison for me. I also hope that never happens,

1291
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: because I heard stories of what happens.

1292
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, American cops. No good.

1293
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of one of the founding principles this

1294
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 3: here podcast network.

1295
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 4: Well we have that there is one cop in your

1296
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 4: tractor was allegedly a member of like an openly Dutch

1297
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 4: Nazi group, but I think he's just since left it.

1298
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 5: That happens a lot here.

1299
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not an uncommon occurrence.

1300
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 4: No, what's a cops and clan go hand and haund.

1301
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, we say it for a reason.

1302
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we can ad cops in in company bracket

1303
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 3: Dutch East India that those.

1304
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 4: Were not cops because it was a corporation. James. Yeah,

1305
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 4: that's an enforced urs.

1306
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 3: You can't be a fascist for the Dutch East India

1307
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 3: company because it's something a little bit different.

1308
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 5: That's true. That's true. They were not a state.

1309
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 3: No, it's a non state entity. It's like an autonomous

1310
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 3: it's autonomous fascism of its.

1311
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 6: Own kind of cooked for a fascist to be nostalgic

1312
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 6: for a company.

1313
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, but as long as it's a nationalist company then

1314
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 4: it's okay. This is great.

1315
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 3: I'm going to revive him like like like eighteenth century

1316
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 3: pirate ship, you know, when like the British were like

1317
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 3: attacking the Dutch East India company ships. I'm going to

1318
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 3: bring that back. Okay now because fuck these people. You

1319
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 3: have my personal permission to attack Dutch sailing ships.

1320
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 4: I have that authority.

1321
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 5: But to get back Quentin.

1322
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 4: Sorry, No, there was one other thing that happened because

1323
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 4: the day after the rally there was an unknown person

1324
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 4: who threw a smoke bomb inside the AKU. Shit. A

1325
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 4: person was never caught. I'm going to make a wild

1326
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 4: guest and say he was probably involved with Defend Netherlands

1327
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 4: or some other similar fascist groups. No one at AKU

1328
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 4: was hurt. It was mostly just an e convenients. And

1329
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,479
Speaker 4: that is pretty much the story of how the depth

1330
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 4: of a French Nazi involved threats to a community center

1331
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 4: in the Netherlands.

1332
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, I think you mentioned Ntem when called him

1333
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 3: Francis Charlie Kirk. Yeah, but it's wild how like this

1334
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 3: one has been so seized upon right by people who, like,

1335
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 3: as we said, they did not give a shit about

1336
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 3: this guy when he was alive. Now, I think our

1337
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 3: national rally would be the English or like National Assembly.

1338
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think national rally is how they do it

1339
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 5: in English.

1340
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, those guys held like also like on a

1341
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 4: political level, it was like a national thing that happened

1342
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 4: where they were memorizing it, and they were blaming a

1343
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 4: French unbout for whatever happened. Because one of the people

1344
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 4: who was arrested for the violence was an aide I

1345
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 4: think to someone from French unbouts.

1346
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 5: That's not great.

1347
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not great.

1348
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 5: I imagine their boss would have preferred that they had

1349
01:07:59,120 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 5: not done that.

1350
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 4: Probably probably, But it was a huge thing. And I mean, like.

1351
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 6: From my end, Like I mean, obviously I don't read

1352
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 6: a lot of French news, but I subscribe to a

1353
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 6: lot of Nazi telegram channels and I see his name

1354
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,600
Speaker 6: a lot, like the Active club sort of networks, Like

1355
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 6: it's not always directly the Active clubs, sort of these

1356
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 6: sort of ancillary telegram groups that spen up around them,

1357
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 6: but in that milieu they're talking about him a lot.

1358
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 6: They're talking about like, you know, training in his honor,

1359
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 6: punching communists in his honor, you know what I mean,

1360
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 6: Like they're trying to make this a rallying point to

1361
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 6: inspire more violence.

1362
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know if it will work long term.

1363
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 5: I've seen many such attempts that do not work long term.

1364
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 5: But it's been two months and they are still talking about,

1365
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 5: you know, hurting people in his name.

1366
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 4: Also if my doubts on whether that will.

1367
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 5: Work, because they try a lot, try a lot.

1368
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1369
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 6: I particular a bunch of examples of attempted martyrs that

1370
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,640
Speaker 6: led just like nobody remembers.

1371
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 4: I can't think if anyone exactly exactly besides the one

1372
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 4: we already talked about whose wife is now running the foundation.

1373
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 6: And for the most part it's I mean, at least

1374
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 6: in America, most of the right wing martyrs are people

1375
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 6: who died in prison or were killed by the police.

1376
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 6: We don't have a lot of sort of street deaths

1377
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 6: like this.

1378
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1379
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, although, like I do feel like the right wing

1380
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 3: martin is killed by the police, like if they like

1381
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 3: if the Weaver family were killed by the cops, to

1382
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 3: the members of the Weaver family who were killed by

1383
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 3: the FBI, Vicky Wheel yeah. Like if that happened today,

1384
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 3: I think half of the right would be like hell yeah,

1385
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,799
Speaker 3: get them cops, like like the Bootleck attendance.

1386
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 6: See, I mean like they tried to make LaVoi Finicum

1387
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 6: was killed during the Bundy standoff in twenty sixteen.

1388
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,520
Speaker 5: Did you remember LaVoi Finicum?

1389
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 4: No? Yeah, no one.

1390
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 6: I mean Ashley Babbitt. Ashley Babbitt should have been their martyr.

1391
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 6: They moved on.

1392
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they've been doing some acshally Babbitt stuff like

1393
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 3: I think they it didn't work.

1394
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it still hasn't.

1395
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 3: What they're trying to bury her, I believe, with the

1396
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 3: military honors now and get her Air Force pension or something,

1397
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 3: and then she can sue Capitol Police now that it

1398
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,759
Speaker 3: hasn't worked. Like in terms of popular culture, no one cares.

1399
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean the closest thing we have are when

1400
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,480
Speaker 6: white women are killed by black men or immigrants.

1401
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 5: That sometimes will Yeah, that flash in the pan lasts.

1402
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 6: A little longer, but even still, like Kate Steinley, Molly

1403
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 6: Tibbet's like Arena Zarutska, like.

1404
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 4: Well, they stuck the landing with they can Riley.

1405
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 3: They had the Lake and Riley Act right, they managed

1406
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 3: to essentially create a system where immigrants are guilty until

1407
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 3: prement innocent, right now, Yeah, they have not spoken about

1408
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,759
Speaker 3: her since, but like the legal version of the legal

1409
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 3: tendency on the right, right, the right Legislative movement kind

1410
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 3: of did with that.

1411
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 6: But they are they're like constantly scrounging around for a

1412
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 6: martyr and trying to make one happen. Like in twenty twenty,

1413
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 6: like right after George Floyd Kenan Hinnant, that five year

1414
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 6: old boy that was killed by his neighbor. Oh yeah,

1415
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 6: like this is our George Floyd. You never heard about

1416
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:04,719
Speaker 6: it again?

1417
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they tried and try to try and stay at

1418
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 3: the union, right.

1419
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 6: And then what was it two weeks ago he posted

1420
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 6: that video of a one being beaten to death. Yeah,

1421
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 6: it just it doesn't work, like so that the sauce

1422
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 6: isn't there for them to create martyrs, but they love

1423
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 6: to try.

1424
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, but in order to have a martyr, that that

1425
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 4: person needs to have had value in their eyes in

1426
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 4: the first place. And I think that's what missing.

1427
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 5: Right, because they don't care.

1428
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well they posthumously tried to kind of yeah stack

1429
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 3: it on old Quentin here, but.

1430
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think that this person needs to have

1431
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 4: a reason.

1432
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 5: They needed to have really died for an actual cause, that.

1433
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 4: For an actual cause, but also someone who was like

1434
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 4: broadly known and looked up to.

1435
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,600
Speaker 6: Well, not necessarily, I mean, you don't have to be

1436
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 6: somebody before your death to be an important martyr. I

1437
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 6: mean em at Till was not as civil rights activist,

1438
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 6: he was a little boy.

1439
01:11:58,040 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 4: Yeah. Fair.

1440
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 3: I think it's worked historically more on the left because

1441
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 3: it is people who are It tends to be people

1442
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 3: who are victimized for just for being themselves bless Yeah,

1443
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 3: people who are just existing in the world.

1444
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 6: Right, It's like if you got into a fight at

1445
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 6: a Nazi rally, Like I'm not going to blame the victim,

1446
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 6: but it's not a it's not a blameless death.

1447
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 4: No, Like more like Renee Goot I think what's her name,

1448
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 4: where she was just yeah, you know, looking out for

1449
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,799
Speaker 4: her or for her neighbors, but then it was murdered.

1450
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 5: You've been a good person in the first place.

1451
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe that's where the ride goes wrong.

1452
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 5: That's where it really.

1453
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 3: Goes right, that's the root cause yes, yeah, the.

1454
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 6: Only ones I can think of that really stick are

1455
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 6: older and maybe that is like you're saying James because

1456
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 6: it was like a lower information environment. But like they

1457
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 6: still do Martyr's Day for Robert Matthews and that was

1458
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 6: forty years ago.

1459
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it was easier, right, like for them to

1460
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 3: do it back then.

1461
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 6: And like Matthews got sort of enshrined into this this

1462
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 6: Martyr's pantheon.

1463
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, at a very important time in the movement.

1464
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 6: I just don't know that his death would be that

1465
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 6: important if it happened today.

1466
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1467
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 3: I think a lot about the Vickiy Weaver thing because

1468
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 3: we had a Bill Gore, who was a sheriff in

1469
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 3: San Diego, had been an FBI agent who was part

1470
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 3: of the operation at Ruby Ridge. It was very interesting

1471
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 3: in San Diego because initially when Gore became sheriff, you

1472
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 3: had all these people on the right Lake, specifically posting

1473
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 3: on the Sheriff's department lost a lawsuit for deleting comments

1474
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 3: on its Facebook page regarding this. They can't delete comments, rightly,

1475
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 3: they're a public agency.

1476
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 4: Right.

1477
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 3: Then twenty twenty happened and that same tendency, those same groups,

1478
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 3: not the individual who bought the suit, but like those

1479
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 3: folks were showing up with their Blue Lives Matter flags.

1480
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 3: But then like also struggling to line that up with like, oh,

1481
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 3: we should bring guns. Oh, but that would be illegal California. Oh,

1482
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 3: but we have a right under the Second Amendment. Well,

1483
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 3: who would be the person who enforced the law that

1484
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 3: you think contravenes the Second Amendment? It's a cops, right,

1485
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 3: and you're also here.

1486
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 5: Just they're so stuck. They're so stuck.

1487
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they just kind of backed themselves into a corner

1488
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,480
Speaker 3: there where like they're in a way more ideologically consistent

1489
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 3: back in the day at least, like they're like loving

1490
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 3: the cops thing that they made part of their identity

1491
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 3: largely in the George Floyd moment, right, and the yutual

1492
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 3: leut riding has really fucked them when it comes to

1493
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 3: people who get killed by the cops.

1494
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 5: So hopefully this one fades away like all their other martyrs.

1495
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean I don't like know where his

1496
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 3: family are at either, Like if family may not have

1497
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 3: been bigots.

1498
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,440
Speaker 6: Right, Like have they come out and tried to capitalize

1499
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 6: on this, Like does he have a crying mother on

1500
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 6: the news talking about evil Antifa?

1501
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 4: They don't have a crying mother on the news, So

1502
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 4: I do know they have a lawyer, and I think

1503
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 4: there is some form of legal action being taken.

1504
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 6: And that makes sense because like there were people arrested

1505
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 6: who were responsible for the.

1506
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 3: Death, like somebody hit him in that be a legal.

1507
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 5: Process to move forward.

1508
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 6: But I mean, like, they's not like a member of

1509
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 6: his family out there doing propaganda against like anti fascists.

1510
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 4: Not that I'm aware of, but they were very quiet

1511
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 4: and so far as I've could see, Yeah, like I've

1512
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 4: written this over the space of like two months, so

1513
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 4: may have missed something somewhere, sure, but they were pretty

1514
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 4: quiet on his activist activities. So I'm not sure how.

1515
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it's something they didn't know, or

1516
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 4: if it was something that.

1517
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 5: Maybe they didn't know how bad it was, how.

1518
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 4: Bad it could also have been kept quiet in order

1519
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 4: to like they're doing a lawsuit.

1520
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, they should say less if they're pursuiting litigation.

1521
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 5: That makes perfect sense.

1522
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 6: So it seems like most of the propaganda around his

1523
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 6: death is being produced by the groups he was in.

1524
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:38,639
Speaker 5: Right, you said he was in an active club.

1525
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 6: I'm mostly seeing this from active clubs, so it makes

1526
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 6: sense that they would be doing that.

1527
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just if they're not, like if it happens that,

1528
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 3: like at least someone in his family is, you said,

1529
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 3: like a migrant to France themselves. Like it would really

1530
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 3: fucking suck to know, first of all, to find out

1531
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 3: that this kid in your family had these reprehensible views,

1532
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 3: and then to see their face everywhere.

1533
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 5: Well, luckily it's not his face.

1534
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. That's true.

1535
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 3: You see someone else's face in his name.

1536
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 4: It's just vague resemblance. Yeah. So yeah, before we close

1537
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 4: it out, though, I do want to plug something because

1538
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 4: I do know when the ACU they shut down, they

1539
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 4: had concerts and the entire venue was closed the day

1540
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 4: of the vigil, so they did miss a lot of income.

1541
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,919
Speaker 4: And I also personally know a few people who spend

1542
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 4: quite some money on just barricading that or getting iron

1543
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 4: grades for the windows, or steal grades.

1544
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 5: That's dark.

1545
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, so there is a donate link for the

1546
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 4: ACU because it's also entirely volunteer run, like there's no

1547
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,719
Speaker 4: paid employees there. Everyone's just doing that in their spare time.

1548
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 4: So if there are people who have some money to

1549
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 4: spare anything that's a worthy calls, then in the show

1550
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 4: notes you can find the donate link to support the

1551
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 4: local community center.

1552
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'd be nice if people did that.

1553
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 5: That's beautiful.

1554
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was very hard wark to see. I think

1555
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:03,679
Speaker 4: at the demonstration it self, I think that the Nazis

1556
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 4: were outnumbered like three to one, maybe more usually are

1557
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 4: usually are, but it's still very heartwarming to see such

1558
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 4: a a quick and rapid response with people just being like, hey,

1559
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 4: we don't want them here, go back to your backyard.

1560
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,560
Speaker 4: All the vigil there and it was a thing that happens.

1561
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 4: But after we've spoken so much about weird Nazis, Molly,

1562
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 4: I've been told you do also something with weird little Nazis.

1563
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 6: Oh, I love a weird little guy. I'm going to

1564
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 6: talk about them every week on my show We're Little Guys.

1565
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,759
Speaker 6: You can find it anywhere you get your podcasts. Great,

1566
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 6: And now I'm I'm actually so curious about these weird

1567
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:42,679
Speaker 6: little girls. I might have to check this out.

1568
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,719
Speaker 3: Okay, it's new fascination unlogged.

1569
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 4: I'll share some of the links with you than you

1570
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 4: can have a starting point, although I think you're a

1571
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:54,639
Speaker 4: much better researcher this than I am.

1572
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 5: So unfortunately it's all going to be in French. That's

1573
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 5: what I'm married.

1574
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 4: Just auto translate. That's true because I also don't speak

1575
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 4: French and also translate. Safety made a powerful enemy. Okay,

1576
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 4: the Francophone world.

1577
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 6: They're so uptight about their silly little language.

1578
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,879
Speaker 3: I love to speak French. French speaking people, please don't as.

1579
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 4: Next time I read French articles, James will send the

1580
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 4: link to you and ask you to translate them for me.

1581
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1582
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,919
Speaker 3: I'm really worried that I'm going to have to translate

1583
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 3: some heenous ship.

1584
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 4: Here's like the French version of my comp Could you

1585
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 4: please translate it for me.

1586
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,080
Speaker 5: I do have some holocaust and dial texts.

1587
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:36,839
Speaker 4: Translation perfect.

1588
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, just make sure I'm not in France when I

1589
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 3: receive them. NBA crime, you.

1590
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 4: Might have visa problems as well.

1591
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not going okay.

1592
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 3: I'm no longer a EU citizen, so I now have

1593
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 3: to get visas for places too.

1594
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 4: Bad and you have to be not to be declared

1595
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 4: for no grata. Yeah okay, then, yeah, I think we

1596
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 4: can wrap this up. Thank you guys for being here

1597
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 4: and making is a lovely time talking about Nazis.

1598
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:11,640
Speaker 6: Yes, thank you for introducing me to some terrible new concepts.

1599
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 5: I'm very excited.

1600
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 4: You're welcome.

1601
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and this is it could happen here. My

1602
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 1: name is Daniel Kurd.

1603
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 9: I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics.

1604
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:35,599
Speaker 1: Today I'm joined by.

1605
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 9: Justin Salhani, who is a non resident fellow at the

1606
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 9: Titate Institute for Middle East Policy and a writer and

1607
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 9: journalist based in Beirut. He has worked with Al Jazira

1608
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 9: Digital and has contributed to a number of different outlets

1609
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:49,679
Speaker 9: in the past, and has been reporting on the region

1610
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,679
Speaker 9: since twenty eleven. Justin, thank you so much for coming

1611
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 9: on the show. Thanks for having me so since you are,

1612
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,840
Speaker 9: you know, based invite with them, so intimately knowledgeable of

1613
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 9: what's been going on, I thought we could start by

1614
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:05,640
Speaker 9: just kind of laying out what conditions are like in

1615
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 9: Lebanon right now.

1616
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 7: So right now, as we speak, we're in the midst

1617
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 7: of kind of a tenuous, fragile incomplete we can call

1618
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:18,840
Speaker 7: it ceasefire in beitoot proper. There still is occasionally, you know,

1619
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,839
Speaker 7: a drone overhead, this kind of infamous drone that buzzes

1620
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 7: incessantly and keeps everyone constantly on their toes. But there's

1621
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 7: been almost two weeks or a little maybe a little

1622
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:33,240
Speaker 7: bit more now without an attack on Beaitoo. Basically, we

1623
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 7: had that day April eighth, which is being called locally

1624
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 7: Black Wednesday, where around the country I think the numbers

1625
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 7: are now over three hundred and fifty people were killed,

1626
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,800
Speaker 7: and many of those were in bed roots in areas

1627
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 7: that came without warning. You know, there is this kind

1628
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 7: of dynamic now where the Israeli military will at times

1629
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 7: announce warnings for certain areas, though many attacks come with

1630
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 7: no warning, and they brought down buildings without warning in

1631
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 7: some cases as well in central Bayoot. So the conditions

1632
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 7: right now are you know, relatively, I guess we can

1633
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 7: call it quiet here. Of course, that's vastly different in

1634
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 7: the south, where there was an intensification, particularly yesterday, there

1635
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:16,599
Speaker 7: wasn't really any cessation of hostilities. We can talk about

1636
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 7: how the minutes leading up to April sixteen, when the

1637
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,879
Speaker 7: ceasefire went into effect, you know, throughout the country in Lebanon,

1638
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 7: the Israelis were attacking around the country, not Bayedoot, but

1639
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 7: in other parts of the country, particularly in the south

1640
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 7: and in the city of Sworde bombs. You know, I

1641
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:34,679
Speaker 7: was down there the other day and people were talking

1642
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 7: about what time the Israelis dropped their last bomb, whether

1643
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 7: it was twelve on the dot or eleven fifty nine

1644
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 7: pm or eleven fifty seven pm. And so these are

1645
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:49,799
Speaker 7: the conditions that essentially journalists media workers are forced to

1646
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:51,520
Speaker 7: live with on a daily basis.

1647
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's wild how conscientious they are.

1648
01:21:56,120 --> 01:22:00,040
Speaker 9: You know, they have to take every single minute to

1649
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 9: bomb their neighbors. So yeah, maybe tell us what the

1650
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,759
Speaker 9: situation has been like for journalists in particular. I imagine different

1651
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 9: parts of the country are struggling with maybe different challenges.

1652
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, this exists on a sliding scale, obviously since twenty

1653
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 7: twenty three, the first week post October seven, there was

1654
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:23,599
Speaker 7: a Lebanese journalist by the name of Isam Abdala who

1655
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 7: was killed. He was a Reuters photographer, and that was

1656
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:29,759
Speaker 7: a strike that wounded other journalists, including journalists from AFP

1657
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 7: and Al Jazeera. So, I mean it's been over two

1658
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 7: and a half years now that there has been a

1659
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 7: danger and that first strike that killed Isam changed the

1660
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 7: way that media assesses risk in this country. Since then

1661
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 7: a number of other journalists have also been killed. So

1662
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:49,240
Speaker 7: in that sense, there still is a fear that targeting,

1663
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 7: much like in Gaza, is a thing that happens.

1664
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 4: Of course, in Gaza was way worse.

1665
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 7: There was a way higher threat level, and I think

1666
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 7: part of that is because there were no foreign journalists

1667
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 7: in Gaza during that period of Palestinians. Until now there

1668
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 7: has been at least a one foreign journalist who was

1669
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 7: wounded in that initial attack. Since then, most of the

1670
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 7: attacks have targeted Lebanese journalists, and particularly Lebanese journalists working

1671
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 7: with outlets who have some sort of we can call

1672
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 7: it line that supports or is differential to Hezbala. I mean,

1673
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 7: of course, this is not an excuse, right, They're still journalists,

1674
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 7: They're still working in the media, regardless of what their

1675
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 7: political affiliation is. These are people who are there to

1676
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:32,800
Speaker 7: assess information. Recently, in this latest intensification, there have been

1677
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 7: more killings of journalists, of course, and these are typically

1678
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 7: journalists who are working on the front lines and in

1679
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,640
Speaker 7: the south. You know, we can't know what's in the

1680
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 7: minds of the Israeli military, but based on my conversations

1681
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 7: with media professionals and media watchdogs in the recent years,

1682
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 7: I wrote a piece for Al Jazeera back in twenty

1683
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 7: twenty four. I believe it was about the killing of

1684
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 7: journalists in Gaza, and you know, people at outlets like

1685
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 7: Reporters Without Borders, we're telling me that at that point

1686
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 7: we're talking, you know, a year and a half ago,

1687
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,599
Speaker 7: it was already systematic. There was a systematic means of

1688
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:08,640
Speaker 7: trying to control the narrative through the killing of journalists.

1689
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 7: And this is a big thing for these groups that

1690
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 7: are you know, work really hard to share.

1691
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 4: Only things that they've backed up with data.

1692
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 7: They're not bombastic spokespeople who have some sort of political

1693
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 7: lean you can say, these are people who really have

1694
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 7: to own organizations, that really have to be careful with

1695
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 7: the language that they pick and choose. So I thought

1696
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 7: that was like a really interesting framing. So what they

1697
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 7: had told me at the time, and I think this

1698
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 7: is inevitably still true if you subscribe to this idea,

1699
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 7: is that the goal was to prevent the information from

1700
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 7: getting out from the front lines, to stop people from

1701
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 7: knowing what was happening. And this has been clear as

1702
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 7: lately we've seen journalists targeted. And you know, this isn't

1703
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:55,839
Speaker 7: a case whereby journalists were killed, and I'm speaking specifically

1704
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:59,719
Speaker 7: in Lebanon, this also happened in Gaza, but specifically in Lebanon,

1705
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 7: and the last few weeks we've seen cases where there

1706
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 7: were double tap strikes on journalists that had targeted journalists,

1707
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 7: and then the Israeli military came out, particularly with an

1708
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 7: incident that happened I think just a little over a

1709
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 7: month ago now. They came out and photoshopped journalists from

1710
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 7: the TV station Almonard in Hasbala Fatigues and claimed that

1711
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,599
Speaker 7: he was part of this elite fighting force that awed

1712
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 7: one forces. They offered no proof for this, the Israeli

1713
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 7: military as spokesperson. I believe it was later admitted that

1714
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 7: this was a doctored or an AI created photo that

1715
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 7: they that they released. But these are the conditions that

1716
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 7: journalists are working with. Unfortunately, Lebanon is not signatory to

1717
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 7: the ICC or the ICJ, and so these cases though

1718
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 7: there's been pressure by media watchdogs and other bodies to

1719
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:49,880
Speaker 7: get Lebanon to sign up to join the ICC and

1720
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 7: ICJ so that they can put forward cases against Israel

1721
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 7: for specifically the targeting of journalists, as well as many

1722
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 7: other actions the Israelis have taken in Lebanon, particularly South

1723
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:02,400
Speaker 7: Lebanon over the last two and a half years. These

1724
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 7: are essentially the conditions that Lebaniz journalists are working under

1725
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:07,400
Speaker 7: where their lives are at risk.

1726
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 4: I might point out one other.

1727
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 7: Incident where a journalist from RT was reporting on a

1728
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 7: bridge in South Lebanon. It was one of the last

1729
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:18,719
Speaker 7: bridges to not yet have been bombed that would connect

1730
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 7: South Lebanon to the rest of the country. He was

1731
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 7: reporting when it was caught on video that a strike

1732
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 7: had happened. I think there are legitimate criticisms about this

1733
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 7: journalist's conduct in terms of placing himself.

1734
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 4: He wasn't wearing a helmet at the time.

1735
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 7: Those are legitimate criticisms for you know, kind of here's

1736
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 7: how you can do better sort of thing. That still

1737
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 7: does not excuse the fact that the attack happened while

1738
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,640
Speaker 7: the journalist was there covering. And again, regardless of the

1739
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:47,479
Speaker 7: outlets lean, regardless of what their agenda is, etc.

1740
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 4: Etc.

1741
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 7: These are still media professionals working. I believe that a

1742
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 7: warning had happened at that time, so again questions over

1743
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,759
Speaker 7: maybe decisions that were made. Still that does not excuse

1744
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 7: the Israeli military action. And I've heard people say, you

1745
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 7: know that if you work through this logic, if we

1746
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 7: go back to the logic of what happened in Gaza,

1747
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 7: for example, with the first attack on a hospital, and

1748
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 7: I know, you know, this was in the first few

1749
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 7: weeks after October seven. You may remember at the time

1750
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 7: there was this whole kind of debate between analysts and

1751
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 7: pundits and talking heads and what have you. You know,

1752
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 7: Israel would never do that, they would never attack a hospital.

1753
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 7: And then months later, here we are and every hospital

1754
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 7: in Gaza. You know, at one point multiple hospitals in

1755
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 7: Gaza were completely unoperational. Attacks that happened around hospitals at

1756
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 7: hospitals claiming hospitals were militant centers or centers that were

1757
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 7: hosting militants and all these other sort of things. Forensic

1758
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:42,719
Speaker 7: Architecture has done fantastic work on the Gaza example of

1759
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 7: how the Israelis had structurally gone in and dismantled Gaza

1760
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:49,760
Speaker 7: and healthcare at Palestinian Healthcare in Gaza. And I think

1761
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:51,719
Speaker 7: it might be fair to say that there's a similar

1762
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,280
Speaker 7: logic that is working here in Lebanon. Is that, you know,

1763
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 7: because after the murder of Isam Abdallah, essentially there was

1764
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 7: a period where journalists were not killed for at least

1765
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 7: a short period of time. Then two journalists from the

1766
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 7: outlet Al Mayodine were killed, and then since then we've

1767
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:08,720
Speaker 7: had others from Mayodine, from Monar, etc.

1768
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 4: That have been killed by the Israelis.

1769
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 7: So you see kind of a pattern that, Okay, we

1770
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,480
Speaker 7: can get away with killing these journalists that are ostensibly

1771
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:21,120
Speaker 7: working with outlets who have some sort of affiliation or

1772
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 7: lean towards the Hesbala narrative. That's also the case for Alahabart,

1773
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,599
Speaker 7: with the newspaper that Ama Radil worked with. She was

1774
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 7: killed in a really horrific targeted strike just a few

1775
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 7: days ago.

1776
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 4: Where her and a colleague were in the South.

1777
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:39,560
Speaker 7: An attack happened, they fled into a building, then the

1778
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,880
Speaker 7: Israelis attacked that building. She was stuck under the rubble,

1779
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:47,560
Speaker 7: and the Israelis prevented Red Cross medics and first responders

1780
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:49,640
Speaker 7: from getting to her for a series of hours. I

1781
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 7: think it was around seven hours, the official reporting says,

1782
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,360
Speaker 7: and she died. There's no way to frame this other

1783
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 7: than that Israel attacked her and then prevented her from

1784
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 7: receiving the treatment that she needed to be able to

1785
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 7: continue to live. And I'm always somebody who I didn't

1786
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 7: know personally, so I can't speak to her character in

1787
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 7: my sense, but from the reports people reported her as

1788
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 7: a person that was incredibly generous with their time, was

1789
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 7: incredibly helpful, was very kind to animals. She was somebody

1790
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 7: who was in the South for years and years, was

1791
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 7: often in the South, was constantly in the South, was

1792
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 7: always on the front lines, felt it was her duty

1793
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 7: to report from the front lines as much as possible.

1794
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:26,640
Speaker 7: You know, these are the people that the Israelis have

1795
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 7: targeted until now. Without maybe going too much into, you know,

1796
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 7: an attempt to draw some sort of pattern, I think

1797
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 7: that what seems clear is that those people are targets.

1798
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 7: But we have to ask are the Israelis maybe trying

1799
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:45,599
Speaker 7: to expand that a bit because this is the first

1800
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 7: journalist they've killed from Allahabad, right, if they've killed Manar before,

1801
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 7: they've gone onto Myodine, or they've killed Myodine, and and

1802
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:54,800
Speaker 7: you know Manard and Myodine in one way gone on

1803
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 7: to about are they widening the scope? Are they challenging

1804
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 7: more people, are more people at risk? So I think

1805
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 7: what this does is inevitably now journalists will think twice

1806
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:06,519
Speaker 7: about going south, They'll think twice about going to the

1807
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:12,799
Speaker 7: front lines. Security advisors will put more caution into allowing

1808
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 7: their journalists to go south.

1809
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 4: People will take less risks.

1810
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 7: Obviously, people who will see themselves who work as targets,

1811
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 7: maybe with outlets that the Israelis are openly in opposition to,

1812
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 7: might take different decisions, you know. So I think this

1813
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,679
Speaker 7: is where we end up at basically after such killings

1814
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 7: and such actions.

1815
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 9: Referring back to the killing of the Amatil, we're recording

1816
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:45,760
Speaker 9: this April twenty seventh. As far as I'm aware, no

1817
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,639
Speaker 9: other journalist has been killed since she was the last

1818
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 9: person who was killed. But we'll see what happens. But

1819
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 9: Amos was not only double tapped, they had been threatening

1820
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 9: her over text message.

1821
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, So this is a phenomenon that has happened.

1822
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,840
Speaker 7: Obviously it's not just journalists, but it's others as well

1823
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 7: that have gotten threatening messages. There have been cases reporting

1824
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,760
Speaker 7: cases of people receiving text.

1825
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 4: Saying we're going to attack you.

1826
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 2: Now.

1827
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 4: You can die by yourself or you can die with

1828
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 4: your family.

1829
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 7: And I want to be clearly until now that's not

1830
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 7: a journalist that this has happened to. Ama did receive

1831
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:22,759
Speaker 7: threatening text messages. Other reporters have followed up and messaged

1832
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 7: the number that messaged her. It's really hard to deduct

1833
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 7: if this is an actual campaign, if this is somebody

1834
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 7: within state capacity, or if these are individuals that found

1835
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:33,200
Speaker 7: her phone number and did that. However, there is a

1836
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 7: psychological effect that takes place here right. There has been

1837
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:40,120
Speaker 7: a phenomenon of different municipalities around Lebanon receiving phone calls

1838
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:45,519
Speaker 7: from Israeli officials or Israeli military officials warning them of

1839
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 7: hosting displaced people. You know, this has been reported and outlets,

1840
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 7: including in the New York Times and others. So essentially

1841
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 7: a psychological effect has begun to take hold with that

1842
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,760
Speaker 7: as well. There have been a number of calls that

1843
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 7: are essentially fake calls. So you know, for example, weeks ago,

1844
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 7: a neighbor of mine, or a neighboring building just a

1845
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 7: couple streets over, reportedly received a warning, a threatening call,

1846
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 7: threatening them that there might be attack on their building.

1847
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 7: Now that attack never manifested and never developed, at least

1848
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:14,360
Speaker 7: not at that precise building. That there have been other

1849
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 7: attacks within a walking distance of my house in the

1850
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 7: last few weeks. That being said, you know, that has

1851
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 7: a psychological effect because many people will not take the

1852
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 7: risk they'll leave. Other times, you'll find cases where people

1853
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 7: will get some sort of caller, people in the building

1854
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 7: will get some sort of call, they'll write it off

1855
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:30,800
Speaker 7: as fake, and they won't leave their house. And so

1856
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,559
Speaker 7: there have been people who have seen warnings coming one

1857
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 7: way or another. You know, I'm not saying it's directly

1858
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:36,960
Speaker 7: through a phone call, but through one way or another,

1859
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,360
Speaker 7: and thought, you know, whatever the case, we're not.

1860
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:40,880
Speaker 4: Going to leave our homes. And they end up dying

1861
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:44,759
Speaker 4: in strikes. So there is absolutely a psychological effect.

1862
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 7: And we have no way of knowing if these fake

1863
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 7: calls are coming from the Israeli military or officials or

1864
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 7: individuals or just other people playing pranks. All those things

1865
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,240
Speaker 7: can be true to varying levels. A neighbor who lives

1866
01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 7: above me got a call from ostensibly a Cuban number

1867
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 7: that was like an automated recording of sorts, and through

1868
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:05,840
Speaker 7: her mind she started thinking, you know, what are the

1869
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 7: different possibilities of these calls? What sort of chances do

1870
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 7: I want to take. Incidentally, a day or two later,

1871
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 7: I got a call from a Cuban number as well,

1872
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 7: and I just chose not to pick it up because

1873
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 7: at that point we had figured out it was very

1874
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 7: likely to be fake. But this has a psychological effect,

1875
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 7: and this is one of the many things that Lebanese

1876
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 7: people are dealing with when we talk about these sort

1877
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 7: of psychological warfare through the things like you know, calls,

1878
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:31,759
Speaker 7: warnings of your neighborhood or of your entire village at times,

1879
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 7: or maybe even of your building, sonic booms, distribution of leaflets,

1880
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:39,320
Speaker 7: all these things are happening simultaneously when we talk about

1881
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 7: the things that I'm unreceived again, this is the targeting

1882
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 7: of media workers and journalists, and you will see kind

1883
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 7: of this international indifference. Luckily, now there's been kind of

1884
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 7: more voices, i think, picking up on the fact that

1885
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:54,719
Speaker 7: journalists are a threat. And it is a case where

1886
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 7: it seems like yesterday it was Palestinians and today it's

1887
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 7: Lebanese and tomorrow who could be next? And maybe this

1888
01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:04,200
Speaker 7: is starting to ruminate a bit with journalists and the

1889
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 7: international community. But you know, these are the things that

1890
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:11,000
Speaker 7: you know, we've seen happen with Lebanese journalists, that they

1891
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 7: are directly attacked.

1892
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 4: There's been huge in difference.

1893
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,679
Speaker 7: There is always kind of this you might call it

1894
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 7: not an indifference, but maybe kind of a hedging of

1895
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 7: sorts of like, yeah, of course we don't condone the

1896
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 7: attack of media workers, you know, but the affiliation with

1897
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:29,479
Speaker 7: hesbela right because this thing exists on a sliding scale

1898
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:32,679
Speaker 7: of sorts. International humanitarian law is not a super cut

1899
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:34,439
Speaker 7: and dry thing all the time. So our nuances and

1900
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:37,800
Speaker 7: exceptions and whatever have you under international humanitary laws, I

1901
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 7: understand it. I mean, media workers absolutely are off the table.

1902
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 7: They're not somebody you can attack unless they're actually caring

1903
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 7: and taking part in battles. Even combatants who are not

1904
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:51,160
Speaker 7: actively on the field of battle are not legitimate targets. However,

1905
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 7: Israel does not play by those rules. Israel will target

1906
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 7: people who are ostensibly in Hamas or Pezbala or there's

1907
01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:00,400
Speaker 7: such groups, even if they're at home with their families. Well, now,

1908
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 7: nobody has held them accountable for this right. This is

1909
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:05,759
Speaker 7: why they've been able to attack betutat will, to attack

1910
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:07,479
Speaker 7: the be suburbs at will. This is why they can

1911
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,120
Speaker 7: bring down buildings in the capital or in the south

1912
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 7: and say that you know, there were Hasbala figures in

1913
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 7: the building, even if they were not carrying weapons, even

1914
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 7: if they were not active combatants, and the burden of

1915
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 7: proof has not been on them though it should be.

1916
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:22,160
Speaker 7: So this is a sliding scale. So it starts with

1917
01:35:22,200 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 7: these kind of militants and they get away with with

1918
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:27,719
Speaker 7: you know, attacking maybe somebody who is a former militant

1919
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:29,559
Speaker 7: who's no longer carrying weapon, or somebody who's not an

1920
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 7: active combatant, and it goes all the way to media

1921
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 7: workers who have the sort of you know what we

1922
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 7: might call kind of this not clear cut affiliation or whatever.

1923
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:40,439
Speaker 7: We should be clear that it doesn't matter what their

1924
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:43,519
Speaker 7: affiliation is as a media worker, as a journalist, they

1925
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 7: should be protected, but because of these affiliations they're not.

1926
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:47,639
Speaker 4: Again and Gaza.

1927
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 7: It started with such media workers, it ended up with

1928
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 7: more recently seeing for example, a Palacitian journalists who worked

1929
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 7: with the Associated Press being killed on a live stream.

1930
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 7: So this is kind of the sliding scale that we're

1931
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 7: seeing happening now.

1932
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:04,040
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's widening. It's a testing of the limits.

1933
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:08,439
Speaker 9: Some outlets will get no outrage, but then they widen

1934
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 9: the scope of it. The entire landscape and dynamic that

1935
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:15,439
Speaker 9: you're describing it can only be described as terrorizing. And

1936
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:17,960
Speaker 9: we've seen this in the past of course, like in Gaza,

1937
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 9: they drop leaflets to terrorize people and they send those

1938
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,519
Speaker 9: text messages to Gazan's I mean, I don't encourage anybody

1939
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:26,519
Speaker 9: to look for these, but there have been videos of

1940
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:31,639
Speaker 9: people fleeing their cars because they're about to be droned

1941
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:33,679
Speaker 9: after receiving a threat saying leave.

1942
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:36,920
Speaker 1: Or your family will get droned with you. Like it's unbelievable.

1943
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 9: And of course, as you said, we're talk about journals now,

1944
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:42,080
Speaker 9: but we've seen a targeting of like medical professionals, Like

1945
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:45,720
Speaker 9: we've seen quadruple taps at this point of medical professionals

1946
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:48,840
Speaker 9: to prevent people from helping those under the rubble, to

1947
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 9: prevent helping those who have now then been targeted for

1948
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 9: being in an ambulance. I mean, it's a really outrageous

1949
01:36:55,400 --> 01:37:10,160
Speaker 9: state of affairs. Has there been an exodus a foreign journalist?

1950
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 9: What's the situation like for those who are in Lebanon.

1951
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:15,240
Speaker 4: No, there's not been an exodus.

1952
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:15,519
Speaker 9: You know.

1953
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:20,520
Speaker 7: I think that many foreign journalists still feel that they're protected.

1954
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 7: It's an interesting dynamic, you know, because I think, as

1955
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:28,919
Speaker 7: you'll know very well, right like whenever there are active

1956
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,040
Speaker 7: hostilities or things like this, we have this flock of

1957
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 7: journalists who come in and then once it kind of

1958
01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:35,360
Speaker 7: calms down, they leave. And I always find that bizarre

1959
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 7: because I feel like so much of the work to

1960
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 7: be done happens when ces fires go into effect, because

1961
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:42,080
Speaker 7: that's when you can see the extent of damages. That's

1962
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:46,120
Speaker 7: when you can actually investigate and see, you know, Okay,

1963
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 7: now that the firing has stopped, you have better access

1964
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 7: to places, you can spend more time in places, you

1965
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 7: can get deeper stories. I mean, unfortunately, the way that

1966
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:56,560
Speaker 7: media works today, there's not the luxury of time. Oftentimes,

1967
01:37:56,600 --> 01:38:00,439
Speaker 7: you know, media outlets are under staffed and under funded,

1968
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 7: and so it's a difficult prospect. There's still actually quite

1969
01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 7: a lot of foreign journalists here. Luckily, some of them

1970
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:10,240
Speaker 7: even covered Amalhai's funeral, they covered her memorial, they covered

1971
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:13,120
Speaker 7: what happened to her because it was such an egregious example.

1972
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:15,000
Speaker 7: And you know, at the same time, I think that

1973
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:17,200
Speaker 7: there is this sort of dynamic the Israelis are aware

1974
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,000
Speaker 7: of that if they kill a foreign journalist right like,

1975
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 7: they can kill They have killed a Lebanese journalist who

1976
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 7: worked for a major international outlet, and that led to

1977
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:28,360
Speaker 7: some troubles for them. Because Reuters and others collaborated to

1978
01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:32,559
Speaker 7: do an investigation. Human rights organizations are reporting on this killing.

1979
01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 7: Other Lebanese journalists that worked for less prominent outlets still

1980
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 7: led to certain condemnations, certain reports were written. But I

1981
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:42,720
Speaker 7: think that, you know, it's kind of this effect. It's

1982
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:45,600
Speaker 7: like an avalanche effect. It's that the more sort of

1983
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,600
Speaker 7: attention goes towards these sort of incidents, the more of

1984
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 7: a more problem it becomes for Israel with their international

1985
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:55,600
Speaker 7: partners or or their international relations, right, And so I

1986
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:58,679
Speaker 7: think there's an acute awareness about that from the Israeli side.

1987
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:00,720
Speaker 7: They know kind of how how far they can get

1988
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:02,640
Speaker 7: away with things to a certain extent, you know, I

1989
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 7: think a lot of journalists are aware of that as well,

1990
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:06,519
Speaker 7: and so they feel that for until now, they can

1991
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 7: still go into these places. But like you said, it's

1992
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 7: a widening effect, right, It's trying to see how far

1993
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:14,680
Speaker 7: you can expand and how much you can get away with. Now,

1994
01:39:14,760 --> 01:39:17,080
Speaker 7: Let's say that you know, for example, this RT journalist,

1995
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 7: if they had killed him, he's a British citizen, you know,

1996
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 7: does that suddenly change the calculus or the fact that

1997
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:25,639
Speaker 7: he worked for art does that count against him. How

1998
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:28,400
Speaker 7: many politicians, let's say in Europe, will come out and say,

1999
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:30,000
Speaker 7: you know, this is wrong the fact that it was

2000
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:33,839
Speaker 7: an RT journalist. Hopefully they still would, but it creates

2001
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 7: this kind of you know, indecision, if you will.

2002
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:38,960
Speaker 9: It seems to me from your answer that like they

2003
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:42,639
Speaker 9: still expect that the current effect of their foreignness.

2004
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:46,280
Speaker 7: Essentially, yeah, I think so they still carry that, and

2005
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:48,840
Speaker 7: I think they have an awareness of that.

2006
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 4: You know, I wouldn't want to speak on their behalf.

2007
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 7: And there's always layers, right, There's the ones who parachute

2008
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 7: in who may be a good basis in the region.

2009
01:39:57,880 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 7: There are those who are based here and have been

2010
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 7: here a long time. There are those who speak the

2011
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:03,960
Speaker 7: language and understand the culture. There are those who don't.

2012
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:06,360
Speaker 7: And I mean, like this is not to single out

2013
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 7: foreign journalists. There are local journalists for amazing and their

2014
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:12,240
Speaker 7: local journalists for horrible obviously, right, but I think that

2015
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:14,960
Speaker 7: there is kind of a thought process that, yeah, carrying

2016
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,640
Speaker 7: you know, a foreign passport, working for a major organization

2017
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:20,760
Speaker 7: still comes with some sort of protection. So but I mean,

2018
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:23,840
Speaker 7: at the same time, this also means that the israelis

2019
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:25,920
Speaker 7: killing the journalists that they have killed it's it's not

2020
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:28,680
Speaker 7: a mistake, right. I can think off the top of

2021
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:30,759
Speaker 7: my head of at least two journalists who are killed

2022
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 7: in their homes and so you know, again this is

2023
01:40:34,920 --> 01:40:38,439
Speaker 7: attacking civilian infrastructure, attacking buildings, and that comes with a

2024
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 7: different sort of criticisms. But if we're talking just about

2025
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 7: the operation of journalists while they're doing their jobs, you know,

2026
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:47,080
Speaker 7: while they're driving in cars, while they're covering sometimes conflicts,

2027
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:49,439
Speaker 7: sometimes you know, maybe just moving from one place to

2028
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:51,840
Speaker 7: the other, it becomes very clear that you know, if

2029
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:53,360
Speaker 7: you feel protected by the fact that you have a

2030
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:55,559
Speaker 7: foreign passport, that also means that the Israelis are aware

2031
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:56,559
Speaker 7: of who they're.

2032
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 4: Attacking and when they're attacking aids.

2033
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:00,880
Speaker 7: You know, we've seen things, for example, like you know,

2034
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 7: compared to the killing of people, this might be a

2035
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:05,760
Speaker 7: minor example, but we saw this thing that got a

2036
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 7: lot of international attention of an Israeli soldier destroying a

2037
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:10,599
Speaker 7: statue of Jesus in a Catholic town in the south

2038
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,679
Speaker 7: of Lebanon. And then more recently there was the destruction

2039
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,759
Speaker 7: of solar panels in another Christian town in South Lebanon,

2040
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 7: and the Israeli military will come out and say things like,

2041
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:21,400
Speaker 7: you know, this does not represent the values of the

2042
01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:25,080
Speaker 7: Israeli military. So okay, then there's the targeting and killing

2043
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:27,639
Speaker 7: of journalists. Does that represent the you know? And then

2044
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 7: and then additionally, I think it's important to say that

2045
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 7: with the level of data, with the level of precision

2046
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 7: that the Israelis have, that they've killed at times. You know,

2047
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:39,240
Speaker 7: I visited a scene in a Christian town just east

2048
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:41,800
Speaker 7: of Bayout, in a place called Aasade, where our you know,

2049
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:45,719
Speaker 7: mutual friend Eli Ayub grew up and we saw the attack,

2050
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 7: the side of the attack, and I went to a

2051
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:50,559
Speaker 7: building behind the building that attack that had, you know,

2052
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:52,760
Speaker 7: we had the view from up top and you could

2053
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:56,200
Speaker 7: see that two holes were in the rooftop of the

2054
01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:58,840
Speaker 7: building that was struck. And it's because the shells went

2055
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,400
Speaker 7: through or the rockets went through the top of the

2056
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:04,800
Speaker 7: building through the roof, went down a floor below and

2057
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 7: then exploded and killed women.

2058
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:08,200
Speaker 4: Ended up killing a local.

2059
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 7: Christian official, and that was according to Israeli, is not

2060
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:13,040
Speaker 7: the target of who they wanted to kill. But the

2061
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:15,679
Speaker 7: point being is that they have this technology that they

2062
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:18,720
Speaker 7: can attack precisely certain areas they can attack to the

2063
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:20,799
Speaker 7: apartment they can blow out the walls of one apartment

2064
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 7: and leave the one a floor below or two floors

2065
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:23,880
Speaker 7: below intact.

2066
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 4: And they've done this.

2067
01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:26,639
Speaker 7: They did this at a hotel just five minutes away.

2068
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 7: Some ostensible Iranian officials were staying in a hotel.

2069
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:31,559
Speaker 4: They destroyed that room.

2070
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:34,639
Speaker 7: It doesn't mean that at times there aren't other people

2071
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 7: nearby that are hurt. But if you're able to attack,

2072
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:39,880
Speaker 7: and you know the figures that you are going after,

2073
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:42,200
Speaker 7: and it is this precise, then what is the need

2074
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:44,679
Speaker 7: to take down entire buildings or what is your excuse

2075
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:47,640
Speaker 7: when you're going after media workers? Now they say it

2076
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:49,599
Speaker 7: in a sense of, you know, like they did with

2077
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:52,479
Speaker 7: this Minar correspondent that he was a member of the

2078
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:56,200
Speaker 7: broad one forces, but again they've provided no information to

2079
01:42:56,280 --> 01:42:58,800
Speaker 7: do that. You know, these are people who who have

2080
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:01,800
Speaker 7: very public face social media accounts. These are people who

2081
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:03,479
Speaker 7: are in the public eye, who are on TV, who

2082
01:43:03,479 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 7: are doing all these sort of things. So you know,

2083
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:09,160
Speaker 7: it really begs to ask many, many questions of the Israelis.

2084
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:11,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, statues are off limits.

2085
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:14,479
Speaker 4: But people are okay, yeah.

2086
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:18,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, a fair game. So there's a cease fire.

2087
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:22,040
Speaker 9: Now, what are people expecting for baut and what does

2088
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:22,880
Speaker 9: that ceasar look like.

2089
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:24,320
Speaker 1: As you said, the attacks are.

2090
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:26,679
Speaker 9: Still going on in the south, but what are people

2091
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 9: expecting for these different parts of Lebanon.

2092
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:33,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, the South is still very active and yesterday was

2093
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:36,920
Speaker 7: a particularly brutal day with attacks across the area. There

2094
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:40,880
Speaker 7: was a forced evacuation orders for areas above the Leetani River,

2095
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:43,479
Speaker 7: which for anyone following, you know, there's been this whole

2096
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:47,439
Speaker 7: kind of dynamic about disarming Hazabella below the lee Tani River,

2097
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:51,960
Speaker 7: which runs across South Lebanon. The Israelis have previously issued

2098
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:54,880
Speaker 7: evacuation orders for above the Laitani as well, reaching up

2099
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:58,720
Speaker 7: to another river called the Zaharani. According to Human Rights

2100
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 7: someone at Human Rights Watch choice to these evacuation demands

2101
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:05,879
Speaker 7: to comply with international humanitarian law, they need to be precise,

2102
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:08,400
Speaker 7: they need to be exact, and they need to be temporary.

2103
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 7: You know, you need to leave your home now because

2104
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:13,080
Speaker 7: we're attacking a target. But you know, they can't be

2105
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:15,599
Speaker 7: open ended the way that they've been with the Israelis,

2106
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:18,000
Speaker 7: and they cannot be indiscriminate the way that they've been

2107
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:20,719
Speaker 7: of demanding the entirety of South Lebanon to move north

2108
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 7: or the entirety of the Southern suburbs. So attacks on

2109
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:26,880
Speaker 7: Bedut after Black Wednesday have come to a halt. And

2110
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:29,479
Speaker 7: it's also true for the Southern suburbs, which you know,

2111
01:44:29,560 --> 01:44:33,559
Speaker 7: have been an area whereby they've suffered many, many attacks,

2112
01:44:34,120 --> 01:44:36,320
Speaker 7: and so it's a bit of a stranger despite at

2113
01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:38,400
Speaker 7: the same time, I think people have gone home to

2114
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 7: check on their houses. Some people have gone home to

2115
01:44:40,479 --> 01:44:42,599
Speaker 7: just stay in their houses for a variety of reasons,

2116
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:46,160
Speaker 7: either because they might feel that it's safe for this moment,

2117
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:49,040
Speaker 7: or you know, they're hedging their beds. But still a

2118
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:50,519
Speaker 7: lot of people have not returned home.

2119
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:51,400
Speaker 4: Many of them cannot.

2120
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 7: These are obviously people at the South, or you cannot

2121
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:55,680
Speaker 7: if you've had your home destroyed in the South or

2122
01:44:55,720 --> 01:44:58,599
Speaker 7: in the Southern suburbs or parts of the eastern Bacau Valley.

2123
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 7: You know, I've got a school by my house which

2124
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:04,720
Speaker 7: is hosting displaced people, and it's still filled with the displaced,

2125
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:07,800
Speaker 7: either because they cannot go home or because, as many

2126
01:45:07,880 --> 01:45:11,120
Speaker 7: have told me, they don't trust that this ceasefire will hold. Obviously,

2127
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:12,720
Speaker 7: in places like the South it has not held, and

2128
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:15,679
Speaker 7: it's still ongoing with attacks coming from both sides.

2129
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:16,639
Speaker 4: In Bedut.

2130
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:19,719
Speaker 7: You know, it's calm in a sense for this moment.

2131
01:45:20,360 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 7: Like I mentioned, there's still a drone overhead. At times,

2132
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 7: there have been reports of warplanes flying over different parts

2133
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:28,479
Speaker 7: of the country. So you know, there's still this doubt

2134
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 7: if this ceasefire, this truce will hold. So we're kind

2135
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:35,640
Speaker 7: of expecting or waiting any moment. But I should say

2136
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:37,280
Speaker 7: that this was also true of the twenty twenty four

2137
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:39,280
Speaker 7: Seas fire to an extent. Now, in twenty twenty four,

2138
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:41,559
Speaker 7: immediately the next day, people went home.

2139
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,040
Speaker 4: They drove home, they drove south, they went ahead with it.

2140
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:46,639
Speaker 7: Of course, the attacks from the Israelis did not stop

2141
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 7: in the south, in Beirut and the southern suburbs predominantly.

2142
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:51,519
Speaker 7: There were a few attacks in the southern suburbs, but

2143
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:55,719
Speaker 7: not regular attacks. You know, a kind of normalcy returned

2144
01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:58,840
Speaker 7: a bit. However, there was still kind of this attitude

2145
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 7: of waiting and seeing what would happen, because very few

2146
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:04,880
Speaker 7: people trust the Israelis to stop the attacks. Very few

2147
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:07,840
Speaker 7: people trust that the Israelis want to stop the war.

2148
01:46:07,920 --> 01:46:10,439
Speaker 7: At this point in time, they're stronger, they're the hegemon

2149
01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 7: in the region. They control the skies to a large

2150
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:16,639
Speaker 7: extent they control disease, and now in southern Lebanon they also,

2151
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:18,719
Speaker 7: you know, to an extent, control parts of the land.

2152
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 7: And so I think that the attitude here is very

2153
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:26,360
Speaker 7: much one of this truce is tenuous. We're living day

2154
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 7: by day, We're waiting to see if tomorrow, you know,

2155
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:31,160
Speaker 7: we have to return to kind of a pre April

2156
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:35,439
Speaker 7: sixteen reality where we're checking our shoulders, we're deciding in

2157
01:46:35,439 --> 01:46:37,640
Speaker 7: which streets to go down. You know, those of us

2158
01:46:37,680 --> 01:46:40,000
Speaker 7: who are lucky enough to maybe have relatives or friends

2159
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 7: in other parts of the country that we feel we

2160
01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:46,040
Speaker 7: can go to be a bit safer, are.

2161
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 4: You know, waiting to do that again.

2162
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:50,759
Speaker 7: Maybe initially there was something of an exhale kind of okay,

2163
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:52,640
Speaker 7: we know that we're going to be okay for or

2164
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,599
Speaker 7: we hope will be okay for at least a few days.

2165
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:56,559
Speaker 7: But as the days go on, and as there's been

2166
01:46:56,600 --> 01:47:00,360
Speaker 7: no conclusion to this issue, and of course know that

2167
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 7: these are connected to the Iran US discussions, which are

2168
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:06,040
Speaker 7: in a whole other place themselves, I think everyone's just

2169
01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:09,960
Speaker 7: kind of waiting to see what develops, and there is

2170
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:11,640
Speaker 7: the sort of bated breath.

2171
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:13,800
Speaker 9: And of course the reality I mean, even if the

2172
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:16,240
Speaker 9: ceasefire holds for a bit, like, the reality is that

2173
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 9: the situation on the ground has changed. Whether it's how

2174
01:47:20,400 --> 01:47:23,200
Speaker 9: much land they've taken there's like a new yellow line

2175
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 9: and Lebanon in the same way that they've constricted Gaza,

2176
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:29,840
Speaker 9: and also the damage that's been left behind, not just

2177
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:32,760
Speaker 9: of the infrastructure, but of the herbicides that they're spraying

2178
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:36,640
Speaker 9: and the environmental destruction. So there's just so much to

2179
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:40,080
Speaker 9: think about. Thank you so much for coming on and

2180
01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 9: making time to talk about this, and please stay safe.

2181
01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:44,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you so much.

2182
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 9: Donner.

2183
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 8: Welcome, take it up and here podcast about things falling

2184
01:48:01,439 --> 01:48:05,840
Speaker 8: apart and although not today putting them back together again.

2185
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:10,320
Speaker 8: Today we are going to be talking about some of

2186
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:12,680
Speaker 8: the ways in which the world is falling apart and

2187
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:17,360
Speaker 8: the ways that they've been invisibilized. Now there are obviously

2188
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:21,960
Speaker 8: a wide and broad variety of ways in which the

2189
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:24,760
Speaker 8: world is coming to pieces, but one of them is

2190
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:29,320
Speaker 8: the impact of the continued dual blockade now of the

2191
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:34,120
Speaker 8: strait up Wamus. The sense you get reading the papers,

2192
01:48:34,920 --> 01:48:37,559
Speaker 8: if you are looking at the economic reality of the

2193
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:42,320
Speaker 8: situation is that everything is broadly fine. The economic impacts

2194
01:48:42,320 --> 01:48:45,719
Speaker 8: have been less bad than expected. The economy is proving

2195
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 8: more resilient. Economies, particularly in East Asia, are hanging on

2196
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:53,719
Speaker 8: better than predicted. China has been resilient, America has been resilient.

2197
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:56,840
Speaker 8: Trump will eventually back down, which will head off the

2198
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 8: worst case scenario long range forecasting of materials. Now, the

2199
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:06,640
Speaker 8: rest of you, I'm assuming, if you're listening to this podcast,

2200
01:49:07,120 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 8: you live in reality and not the distorted mirror world

2201
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 8: of the stock market. Stock market, as I think everyone

2202
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 8: has been able to see by this point, is increasingly unmoored,

2203
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:23,200
Speaker 8: if it ever was moored to begin with, from the

2204
01:49:23,240 --> 01:49:28,600
Speaker 8: reality of how the global economy is actually functioning. And

2205
01:49:28,680 --> 01:49:30,840
Speaker 8: Trump has been able to play a game by which

2206
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:35,040
Speaker 8: she makes the appearance of backing down in every time

2207
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:38,880
Speaker 8: the stock market seems to be actually tanking, and the

2208
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:42,599
Speaker 8: markets have simply come to believe as an axiom, that

2209
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:45,840
Speaker 8: if they simply bet that Trump will eventually back down,

2210
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:47,120
Speaker 8: it will simply happen.

2211
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:48,639
Speaker 4: Now it hasn't.

2212
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:52,280
Speaker 8: The wars continuing apace, and it seems to have no

2213
01:49:52,439 --> 01:49:56,360
Speaker 8: signs of slowing down, but the markets are behaving as

2214
01:49:56,400 --> 01:50:00,360
Speaker 8: if they know that it's going to happen, and this

2215
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:04,599
Speaker 8: has created a kind of paradox where on the one

2216
01:50:04,640 --> 01:50:07,840
Speaker 8: hand there is us living in this world, and on

2217
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:09,680
Speaker 8: the other hand there are the markets living in a

2218
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 8: world where everything is going to be fine, and in

2219
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:15,800
Speaker 8: the world that we live in, things are not good,

2220
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:20,320
Speaker 8: but they are breaking, I think more slowly than people

2221
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:24,280
Speaker 8: tended to expect. Now. Part of this, and we will

2222
01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:28,400
Speaker 8: go over this in this episode, is that the impacts

2223
01:50:28,439 --> 01:50:32,560
Speaker 8: of this have been worst felt obviously innro on itself,

2224
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:36,479
Speaker 8: and then across South and East Asia, which are the

2225
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 8: markets that are incredibly in economies that are incredibly reliant

2226
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:44,360
Speaker 8: on not just oil but things like naphtha and also

2227
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 8: fertilizers that pass through the strato fromuz. But if the

2228
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:52,720
Speaker 8: markets are wily e coyote hovering in the air thro

2229
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:57,040
Speaker 8: this year power of not looking down the rest of

2230
01:50:57,080 --> 01:51:00,800
Speaker 8: the economy is a kind of slow moving train wreck.

2231
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 8: It isn't collapsing all at once. But the more you

2232
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,599
Speaker 8: poke through, and the more you go past the first

2233
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,920
Speaker 8: page of the newspaper and start looking at the later ones,

2234
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:13,800
Speaker 8: and the more that you look at the press in

2235
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:17,799
Speaker 8: other countries, the more you begin to realize that things

2236
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:24,479
Speaker 8: are going quite quite badly. Now in the West. The

2237
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:27,240
Speaker 8: sign of this has been five dollars a gallon gasoline

2238
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:32,360
Speaker 8: in vast portions of the United States. We are quite

2239
01:51:32,360 --> 01:51:35,639
Speaker 8: frankly seeing the better side of it. There have been

2240
01:51:35,800 --> 01:51:40,799
Speaker 8: widespread shutdowns of transportation across South and East Asia. Buses

2241
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:44,559
Speaker 8: simply aren't running, both public and private. There have been

2242
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:48,599
Speaker 8: strikes and protests over high gas prices by people who

2243
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:49,879
Speaker 8: normally drive buses.

2244
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:52,040
Speaker 4: Even in the US, you can.

2245
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:53,880
Speaker 8: Talk to people who try to do Uber deliveries, and

2246
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:56,719
Speaker 8: it's becoming effectively impossible even to do that simply because

2247
01:51:56,760 --> 01:52:00,439
Speaker 8: gas prices are so high. But they are simply nowhere

2248
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:03,880
Speaker 8: near as bad here as they are in places like

2249
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:08,519
Speaker 8: the Philippines. Now, the interconnected nature of the global economy

2250
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:12,800
Speaker 8: means that there are things that are being broken right

2251
01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:16,639
Speaker 8: now that are going to break more things later down

2252
01:52:16,680 --> 01:52:19,040
Speaker 8: the line, and are continuing to break things down and

2253
01:52:19,080 --> 01:52:22,839
Speaker 8: across the supply chain, but the ripples are moving slowly.

2254
01:52:23,840 --> 01:52:26,719
Speaker 8: Transportation costs are something that we tend to think about

2255
01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:30,160
Speaker 8: in terms of moving people around, right We try to

2256
01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:34,000
Speaker 8: think about it in terms of buses, in terms of cars. However,

2257
01:52:35,320 --> 01:52:38,599
Speaker 8: one of the very significant issues that we are running

2258
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:44,719
Speaker 8: into across particularly Southeast Asian also Southeast Asia to I'm

2259
01:52:44,760 --> 01:52:48,200
Speaker 8: combining all sorts of don't know three of the regions.

2260
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:50,320
Speaker 8: A bunch of the island nations in the Pacific are

2261
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:52,760
Speaker 8: dealing with this two to various extent. Sri Lanka has

2262
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:55,400
Speaker 8: been one of the worst hits to the extent that

2263
01:52:55,479 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 8: we're seeing a bunch of these countries are doing kind

2264
01:52:57,960 --> 01:53:02,280
Speaker 8: of like miniature government shutdowns. And obviously there's a bunch

2265
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:05,639
Speaker 8: of different versions of this. Pakistan, for example, is going

2266
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 8: into more debt in an attempt to sort of keep

2267
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 8: the economy running. But returning to transformation costs for a moment,

2268
01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:17,640
Speaker 8: it is important that we also understand that goods are transported,

2269
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 8: and increases in the price of gasoline to the point

2270
01:53:20,439 --> 01:53:27,120
Speaker 8: where it's simply impossible to afford also affects shipping and

2271
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:31,040
Speaker 8: in particular effects things that are delivered on trucks. I'm

2272
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:35,360
Speaker 8: going to read this quote about Vietnam and rice production

2273
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:41,480
Speaker 8: in Vietnam quote. In today's abnormal times, rice buyers are hesitating.

2274
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:45,479
Speaker 8: Shipping delays of ten to fifteen days have become common

2275
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 8: as carriers slow steam to conserve fuel. Osmadi rice from

2276
01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:52,320
Speaker 8: India bound for the Middle East has been unable to

2277
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:56,040
Speaker 8: get through this trade of romuz in the Philippines, wholesalers

2278
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:58,080
Speaker 8: are not sure when there might be enough diesel to

2279
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:01,639
Speaker 8: move imports around the country. That means rice has been

2280
01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:06,400
Speaker 8: piling up across Asia, creating a short term paradox. Wholesale

2281
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:10,639
Speaker 8: price is declining as production costs rise after a year

2282
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:14,519
Speaker 8: of healthy harvests. Traders are paying farmers less right now

2283
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 8: to hedge against future risk. So this is a really

2284
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 8: complicated fucking mess.

2285
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 4: Right.

2286
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:25,679
Speaker 8: What the New York Times is saying here is that

2287
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:30,760
Speaker 8: buyers aren't buying the massive amount of rice that has

2288
01:54:30,760 --> 01:54:35,720
Speaker 8: already been planted, right. But on the other hand, there's

2289
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:39,240
Speaker 8: also now we're running into fertilizer shortages because of a

2290
01:54:39,240 --> 01:54:42,440
Speaker 8: bunch of elements for fertilizers that is used in a lot.

2291
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:44,880
Speaker 8: I mean, this is also affecting the United States too,

2292
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,400
Speaker 8: but it's significantly worse in places like the Philippines and

2293
01:54:48,440 --> 01:54:51,320
Speaker 8: places like Vietnam. Some of the important elements needed to

2294
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:54,840
Speaker 8: create fertilizer pass these trader farm news they're not getting through.

2295
01:54:55,480 --> 01:54:59,280
Speaker 8: And this means that on the one hand, farmers are

2296
01:54:59,320 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 8: facing enormous rising production prices, but production is a process

2297
01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:06,600
Speaker 8: that takes place over and through time, right, And this

2298
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:09,720
Speaker 8: is something that very importantly most economic models are really

2299
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:13,480
Speaker 8: really bad at dealing with. Conventional macroeconomic models assume time

2300
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:15,880
Speaker 8: and space don't exist to a large extent like this

2301
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:19,640
Speaker 8: is like a real issue for a lot of large

2302
01:55:19,640 --> 01:55:22,880
Speaker 8: scale economic models. Unfortunately they exist here. And so what

2303
01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:26,560
Speaker 8: we're dealing with, right, is that there has been production

2304
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:30,600
Speaker 8: that's already happened because there's already have been harvests. But

2305
01:55:30,760 --> 01:55:34,960
Speaker 8: now farmers can't sell the stuff that they've harvested because

2306
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:37,720
Speaker 8: the transportation costs are so high that the buyers don't.

2307
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:38,240
Speaker 4: Want to buy it.

2308
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:40,800
Speaker 8: But that means also on the other hand, food is

2309
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:44,600
Speaker 8: still getting more expensive on your end, because even though

2310
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:48,160
Speaker 8: the people making the food can't get enough money for

2311
01:55:48,200 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 8: the food they are selling because again the buyers won't

2312
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:53,760
Speaker 8: buy it because it's too expensive, you're now also paying

2313
01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:56,680
Speaker 8: like people in the region are now paying increased rice

2314
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:59,640
Speaker 8: prices because they have to pay the shipping cost. So

2315
01:56:00,160 --> 01:56:04,120
Speaker 8: even though on the one hand, right the actual price

2316
01:56:04,160 --> 01:56:07,840
Speaker 8: that consumers are paying is going up, right, and the

2317
01:56:07,960 --> 01:56:11,840
Speaker 8: cost to produce the rice is also going up, the

2318
01:56:11,880 --> 01:56:14,760
Speaker 8: actual price at which these people can sell the rice

2319
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:18,440
Speaker 8: is going down. And this is a fucking nightmare, and

2320
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 8: it means that crops aren't getting planted. It means that

2321
01:56:20,720 --> 01:56:24,080
Speaker 8: crops are also just rotting in the fields because there's

2322
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:27,879
Speaker 8: no way to sell and move them. This is causing really,

2323
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:32,240
Speaker 8: really significant concerns that we're going to be, you know,

2324
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:34,440
Speaker 8: like we are looking over the coming months at a

2325
01:56:34,520 --> 01:56:38,480
Speaker 8: kind of agricultural catastrophe where you're starting to see sort

2326
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:42,120
Speaker 8: of projections of people going, oh God, like, hey, what

2327
01:56:42,240 --> 01:56:48,480
Speaker 8: if people simply stop exporting food. There's a great quote

2328
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,280
Speaker 8: in this New York Times article from a guy who's

2329
01:56:52,280 --> 01:56:57,600
Speaker 8: a senior fellow in food security at Singapore's ISS where

2330
01:56:57,600 --> 01:57:01,120
Speaker 8: he says, quote, complex systems have the habit of creating

2331
01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:06,200
Speaker 8: wicked problems. The way that like capitalist markets interact with

2332
01:57:06,240 --> 01:57:10,360
Speaker 8: food shortages is a complete fucking nightmare. And this is

2333
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:13,560
Speaker 8: something that we have seen that has caused famines all

2334
01:57:13,600 --> 01:57:16,840
Speaker 8: over the world. Is that once you get into the

2335
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:21,520
Speaker 8: point where food genuinely becomes scarce, which is not quite

2336
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:23,560
Speaker 8: the point where we're at now, we're in the beginning

2337
01:57:23,640 --> 01:57:26,400
Speaker 8: of the process by which this could happen. Right The

2338
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:29,160
Speaker 8: part of the process we're in right now is these

2339
01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:31,200
Speaker 8: farmers who also, by the way, and this is also

2340
01:57:31,280 --> 01:57:35,240
Speaker 8: very important, these rice farmers are not operating on particularly

2341
01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:40,000
Speaker 8: high margins, right. They are not very wealthy when I

2342
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:43,120
Speaker 8: say low margins, right, they are not making all that

2343
01:57:43,200 --> 01:57:46,320
Speaker 8: much money. And so you know, being unable to sell

2344
01:57:46,640 --> 01:57:48,400
Speaker 8: your rice or being forced to sell it at an

2345
01:57:48,440 --> 01:57:52,440
Speaker 8: extremely low price and then having your production cost rise

2346
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:55,280
Speaker 8: because you're cost of fertilizer of skyrocketing, is how these

2347
01:57:55,320 --> 01:57:58,600
Speaker 8: things effectively go under. If this stuff continues, This is

2348
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:00,960
Speaker 8: how you get waves of people being forced off their

2349
01:58:01,040 --> 01:58:04,360
Speaker 8: land because they simply can't afford to do the farming anymore.

2350
01:58:04,600 --> 01:58:04,840
Speaker 4: Right.

2351
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 8: But then you know, you also have sort of in

2352
01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:09,200
Speaker 8: some sense, you have the reverse of this in other

2353
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:11,280
Speaker 8: places where if you look at what's happening in India

2354
01:58:11,320 --> 01:58:13,720
Speaker 8: we talked about this on an executive disorder a few

2355
01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:16,200
Speaker 8: weeks back. You know, like a bunch of the ceramics

2356
01:58:16,200 --> 01:58:18,560
Speaker 8: industry it's just like shut down, Like four hundred thousand

2357
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:20,800
Speaker 8: people are out of work from this, and this is

2358
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:24,440
Speaker 8: causing those people to, Okay, like what do you do

2359
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:27,840
Speaker 8: when you can't get work in sort of urban industrial centers.

2360
01:58:27,880 --> 01:58:30,600
Speaker 8: As you go back to a lot of the rural places,

2361
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 8: where these people are from. But you know, the thing

2362
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:37,640
Speaker 8: about oil, right, is that oil price increase is something

2363
01:58:37,640 --> 01:58:42,040
Speaker 8: that hits people across the board. It hits both rural

2364
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 8: and urban economies because they both are heavily oil dependent.

2365
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:47,640
Speaker 8: This is something that New York Times mentions when you're

2366
01:58:47,640 --> 01:58:49,720
Speaker 8: talking about like rice problems in Vietnam.

2367
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:50,040
Speaker 4: Right.

2368
01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:53,680
Speaker 8: Part of the other thing that's been making rice like

2369
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:59,360
Speaker 8: harder to farm is that their irrigation system is powered

2370
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:03,720
Speaker 8: by like diesel engines, it's punctures and diesel stuff, and

2371
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:06,640
Speaker 8: so because of that, you know, there's sort of like

2372
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:09,680
Speaker 8: broad scale shortages in Vietnam, and you have to choose

2373
01:59:09,720 --> 01:59:13,320
Speaker 8: whether you're you know, using the limited amount of diesel

2374
01:59:13,320 --> 01:59:17,400
Speaker 8: that you have in cities or in rural areas. And

2375
01:59:17,480 --> 01:59:22,600
Speaker 8: so these things are just kind of rapidly becoming a nightmare.

2376
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:25,000
Speaker 8: Now you know what isn't a nightmare, it's it's the

2377
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:41,040
Speaker 8: products and services that support this podcast. And we are back,

2378
01:59:42,480 --> 01:59:46,280
Speaker 8: so I want to talk a bit about why the

2379
01:59:46,320 --> 01:59:49,760
Speaker 8: system is structured like this and why you know, on

2380
01:59:49,800 --> 01:59:51,640
Speaker 8: the one hand, like we are starting to see things

2381
01:59:51,680 --> 01:59:56,240
Speaker 8: that are very incredibly alarming in East and Southeast Asia

2382
01:59:56,280 --> 02:00:00,280
Speaker 8: on varying levels that and I guess I because I

2383
02:00:00,280 --> 02:00:04,360
Speaker 8: should be really clear about this, right, The actual economics

2384
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:08,640
Speaker 8: impacts of this are really dispersed. It depends a lot

2385
02:00:08,960 --> 02:00:12,080
Speaker 8: on how wealthy of a country you are in and

2386
02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:16,680
Speaker 8: then also like how reliant on oil your economy is.

2387
02:00:17,320 --> 02:00:20,160
Speaker 8: So the Chinese economy, for example, is not been that

2388
02:00:20,280 --> 02:00:24,560
Speaker 8: badly affected because they have large oil supplies. The Taiwanese economy,

2389
02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:28,000
Speaker 8: you know, like there's kind of plastic bag shortages, and

2390
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 8: that's been another element of all of this is like

2391
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:32,320
Speaker 8: people panicking about are there going to be enough trash

2392
02:00:32,400 --> 02:00:36,160
Speaker 8: backs because for reasons that I will get into in

2393
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:41,480
Speaker 8: a seconds, like plastic is made of oil, right, Everything

2394
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:45,440
Speaker 8: around you that is plastic is just oil. And it

2395
02:00:45,440 --> 02:00:47,640
Speaker 8: does turn out that you do need crude oil in

2396
02:00:47,720 --> 02:00:50,120
Speaker 8: order to produce plastics, and this has been causing lots

2397
02:00:50,120 --> 02:00:53,680
Speaker 8: of production issues across like a whole variety of sectors

2398
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:57,880
Speaker 8: that use plastics. Now, the bottom hasn't just completely fallen

2399
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:00,600
Speaker 8: out yet, and it's worth taking a little bit of

2400
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:05,320
Speaker 8: time to examine why. And the reason why it hasn't

2401
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:10,120
Speaker 8: immediately collapsed is actually, strangely the same reason why we're

2402
02:01:10,160 --> 02:01:12,360
Speaker 8: in this mess from the first place, which is that

2403
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:15,920
Speaker 8: in a lot of ways. The way that our system

2404
02:01:15,960 --> 02:01:18,640
Speaker 8: of production works, the way that we produce things in

2405
02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:21,040
Speaker 8: the world, and the way that we move things around

2406
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:25,400
Speaker 8: is made in the image of oil. So what do

2407
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:27,800
Speaker 8: I mean by that? What I mean is that the

2408
02:01:27,840 --> 02:01:31,320
Speaker 8: system of production is very nodal right. It operates on

2409
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:35,360
Speaker 8: a whole bunch of these nodes. And you know, you

2410
02:01:35,440 --> 02:01:37,640
Speaker 8: have a node where a part of a production is happening,

2411
02:01:38,240 --> 02:01:42,520
Speaker 8: and then that node moves an item from one thing

2412
02:01:42,520 --> 02:01:44,879
Speaker 8: to another where it goes another stage of production process,

2413
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:48,760
Speaker 8: and inputs and outputs come in in these nodes. And

2414
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:51,800
Speaker 8: the thing about these nodes, right, is that in theory,

2415
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:54,480
Speaker 8: you know, the way the system is supposed to be designed,

2416
02:01:54,920 --> 02:01:56,400
Speaker 8: right in the way that it's been sort of they

2417
02:01:56,440 --> 02:02:00,160
Speaker 8: call it like flexibilization to some extent, the way this's

2418
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:01,800
Speaker 8: to work is that like okay, So, like if you

2419
02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:04,400
Speaker 8: are a company that needs to get like I don't know,

2420
02:02:04,440 --> 02:02:06,840
Speaker 8: you're like a Ramen company, to take an example that's

2421
02:02:06,880 --> 02:02:09,680
Speaker 8: been in the news at least in these in like

2422
02:02:09,680 --> 02:02:12,160
Speaker 8: in East Asia's like there's been disruption to like robin

2423
02:02:12,240 --> 02:02:15,720
Speaker 8: making companies, right, and you need plastic, you have like

2424
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:18,040
Speaker 8: one plastic supplier you're normally going to, but there are

2425
02:02:18,040 --> 02:02:20,400
Speaker 8: a bunch of other ones, right and so you know,

2426
02:02:20,640 --> 02:02:22,280
Speaker 8: or maybe maybe maybe a better way to explain this

2427
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:25,360
Speaker 8: would be using the example of like the way that

2428
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:27,840
Speaker 8: like fast fashion works and the way that like drop

2429
02:02:27,840 --> 02:02:29,880
Speaker 8: shipping works right where they're like there are all of

2430
02:02:29,920 --> 02:02:34,240
Speaker 8: these different, like small sort of factories around China or

2431
02:02:34,240 --> 02:02:36,920
Speaker 8: like these small like sort of garment production places where

2432
02:02:36,960 --> 02:02:39,640
Speaker 8: you can like very very quickly crank out the same

2433
02:02:39,840 --> 02:02:43,680
Speaker 8: like drass or whatever, and if you're doing the drop shipping,

2434
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:46,560
Speaker 8: you can like source your drop ship stuff from one

2435
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:50,760
Speaker 8: of like a hundred of these places right now. This

2436
02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:52,440
Speaker 8: is what I mean when I say that it's noble,

2437
02:02:52,520 --> 02:02:57,760
Speaker 8: is that it's designed in such a way that's a

2438
02:02:57,880 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 8: blockage in one part of the system isn't supposed to

2439
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:03,680
Speaker 8: be that bad, because the system isn't designed in a

2440
02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:06,920
Speaker 8: way where you know, there's like one railway from one

2441
02:03:06,920 --> 02:03:09,240
Speaker 8: place to another, and you have to move all of

2442
02:03:09,280 --> 02:03:12,560
Speaker 8: your goods along this one railway, and you can only

2443
02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:14,720
Speaker 8: get it from like one buyer who produces the thing

2444
02:03:14,800 --> 02:03:17,000
Speaker 8: to preeces anovery thing prius and everything. You're supposed to

2445
02:03:17,000 --> 02:03:19,480
Speaker 8: be able to get it from like a broad distributed

2446
02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:23,680
Speaker 8: network of people, and if one node of the network

2447
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:25,480
Speaker 8: goes out, you're supposed to be able to pivot to

2448
02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:30,240
Speaker 8: another one. And this is the way that the economics

2449
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:30,920
Speaker 8: of oil works.

2450
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:31,120
Speaker 2: Right.

2451
02:03:31,120 --> 02:03:33,200
Speaker 8: There are a shit tot of different oil producers, and

2452
02:03:33,240 --> 02:03:36,800
Speaker 8: in theory, you're supposed to be able to pivot around

2453
02:03:36,920 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 8: between different oil wells in a way that's different from,

2454
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:41,800
Speaker 8: for example, the way that coal worked.

2455
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:44,240
Speaker 4: Right. With coal, and a lot of this.

2456
02:03:44,400 --> 02:03:47,720
Speaker 8: I'm sourcing from Timothy Mitchell's book Carbon Democracy, which is

2457
02:03:47,840 --> 02:03:53,040
Speaker 8: very very good. You know, with coal, right, you're usually

2458
02:03:53,080 --> 02:03:56,280
Speaker 8: not moving it by ship, which is this is like

2459
02:03:56,320 --> 02:03:58,920
Speaker 8: another thing that we're going to get to in a second,

2460
02:03:59,360 --> 02:04:03,480
Speaker 8: but with it's very easy. The way that coal is

2461
02:04:03,720 --> 02:04:06,200
Speaker 8: mined and the way that you have to move it, right,

2462
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:08,600
Speaker 8: It goes from one place to another to another to

2463
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:11,560
Speaker 8: another in a line. And if one part of that

2464
02:04:11,600 --> 02:04:15,160
Speaker 8: process shuts down, there isn't like another coal thing you

2465
02:04:15,200 --> 02:04:18,000
Speaker 8: can get your coal from, right, You're just fucked Like,

2466
02:04:18,040 --> 02:04:20,880
Speaker 8: there's not like another mind that feeds into your factory.

2467
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:23,240
Speaker 8: This is this sort of the way the coal production worked,

2468
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:25,680
Speaker 8: and sort of the eighteen and early nineteen hundreds. Oil

2469
02:04:25,800 --> 02:04:29,440
Speaker 8: works in basically the opposite way, right, where there's just

2470
02:04:29,480 --> 02:04:31,920
Speaker 8: like a shit ton of things, and because you're mostly

2471
02:04:31,920 --> 02:04:34,320
Speaker 8: moving it by water at some except by pipeline, the

2472
02:04:34,720 --> 02:04:38,200
Speaker 8: way the production process works and the way that it's

2473
02:04:38,240 --> 02:04:41,320
Speaker 8: sort of easier to move and just like the way

2474
02:04:41,320 --> 02:04:44,720
Speaker 8: that it flows, means that it's harder to block off

2475
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:47,400
Speaker 8: the entire supply of oil in the same way that

2476
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:50,480
Speaker 8: it was actually kind of easy to just like completely

2477
02:04:50,520 --> 02:04:52,760
Speaker 8: stop up huge swas of the economy by just blocking

2478
02:04:52,760 --> 02:04:56,040
Speaker 8: off their access to coal and capital has like long

2479
02:04:56,200 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 8: realized the danger of choke points. This is called four shadowing.

2480
02:05:00,520 --> 02:05:03,480
Speaker 8: This is a literary device, et cetera, et cetera. You know,

2481
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:06,600
Speaker 8: the choke point used to be coal mines and the

2482
02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:10,520
Speaker 8: railways on which like coal was moved, right. And one

2483
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:12,760
Speaker 8: of the things that Timothy Mitchell argues is that a

2484
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:15,160
Speaker 8: lot of the militancy of the nineteenth and twentieth century

2485
02:05:15,240 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 8: labor movement is a direct product of the ways in

2486
02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:24,600
Speaker 8: which these coal miners were both extremely militant and also

2487
02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:29,000
Speaker 8: very very easily able to shut down production in a

2488
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:34,280
Speaker 8: line by mobilizing a force that was greater than their numbers. Right,

2489
02:05:34,400 --> 02:05:38,280
Speaker 8: a relatively small portion of of you know, like hyperbiligant

2490
02:05:38,280 --> 02:05:41,760
Speaker 8: coal miners can shut down like the rest of the

2491
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:46,960
Speaker 8: economy because everyone else is relying on their being coal.

2492
02:05:47,360 --> 02:05:49,440
Speaker 8: But oil has the opposite problem. Well, Like the problem

2493
02:05:49,440 --> 02:05:51,240
Speaker 8: with coal is that there's not enough of it, so

2494
02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:53,480
Speaker 8: you have to constantly extract it. The problem with oil

2495
02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:56,200
Speaker 8: is that there's too much of it. Right. If you

2496
02:05:56,240 --> 02:05:59,280
Speaker 8: shut down coal production, it's a nightmare for the companies

2497
02:05:59,320 --> 02:06:03,320
Speaker 8: that produce coal because they can't make any money because

2498
02:06:03,320 --> 02:06:05,960
Speaker 8: there's like a fixed number of mines and it takes

2499
02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:08,840
Speaker 8: like large scale capital investment to like get them out.

2500
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:11,040
Speaker 8: And it's also true that like it's expensive to attract oil.

2501
02:06:11,080 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 8: But the thing about oil is again like there were

2502
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:15,520
Speaker 8: just there are too many refineries, right, This is sort

2503
02:06:15,560 --> 02:06:18,600
Speaker 8: of why OPIC was formed. If you shut down production,

2504
02:06:18,680 --> 02:06:20,320
Speaker 8: if you restrict the amount of oil, it comes down

2505
02:06:20,360 --> 02:06:23,680
Speaker 8: to the market. That's actually how you make money versus

2506
02:06:23,680 --> 02:06:26,200
Speaker 8: if you shut down coal production, suddenly nobody's making any

2507
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:28,880
Speaker 8: money versus oil, where it's like if you shut down

2508
02:06:29,080 --> 02:06:31,960
Speaker 8: oil production, usually it just means that like the oil

2509
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:34,320
Speaker 8: companies make more money because the price of oil goes up.

2510
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:36,800
Speaker 8: And the specifics of why this is true, I would

2511
02:06:37,160 --> 02:06:39,480
Speaker 8: encourage people to go with your carbon democracy. I could

2512
02:06:39,480 --> 02:06:42,800
Speaker 8: spend another like two hours talking about the materiality of

2513
02:06:42,840 --> 02:06:47,520
Speaker 8: oil and why it specifically works like this differently. But yeah,

2514
02:06:47,560 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 8: oil has the other opposite problem of coal, like there's

2515
02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:51,360
Speaker 8: too much of it. And so this goes to a

2516
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:53,680
Speaker 8: point where Mitchell talks about how in the early nineteen hundreds,

2517
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:57,880
Speaker 8: companies are deliberately setting off oil stripes right because it'll

2518
02:06:57,960 --> 02:07:02,120
Speaker 8: raise their production prices because shutting down their own production

2519
02:07:02,480 --> 02:07:04,560
Speaker 8: and having an excuse to shut down their own production,

2520
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:07,840
Speaker 8: like we'll let them just knock off oil refinery so

2521
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:09,560
Speaker 8: they can reduce the amount of oil in the market.

2522
02:07:10,360 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 8: The system of oil is designed to get around these blockades, right.

2523
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:15,480
Speaker 8: This is a big part of the reason for the

2524
02:07:15,520 --> 02:07:18,760
Speaker 8: transition from cold oil was specifically it was it was

2525
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:20,560
Speaker 8: like the US and the Marshall Plan was trying to

2526
02:07:20,600 --> 02:07:23,520
Speaker 8: defeat these extremely militants like French unions after World War Two,

2527
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:25,720
Speaker 8: and these unions were largely coal mining based, and they

2528
02:07:25,720 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 8: were like, oh shit, we can you know, we can

2529
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:30,240
Speaker 8: do like a pivot to Saudi Arabia to move to oil,

2530
02:07:30,280 --> 02:07:31,880
Speaker 8: and this can be like this can be our solution

2531
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:34,880
Speaker 8: to like crush these coal mining unions because oil is

2532
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:38,000
Speaker 8: extremely hard to unionize. It has like a highly divided workforce,

2533
02:07:38,920 --> 02:07:40,960
Speaker 8: you know, And so they tried to design the system

2534
02:07:41,040 --> 02:07:43,400
Speaker 8: that doesn't have choke points. But the problem is there's

2535
02:07:43,560 --> 02:07:47,000
Speaker 8: one fucking big one, and that one big one is

2536
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:50,440
Speaker 8: the straight over mouse. And at this point, the sort

2537
02:07:50,440 --> 02:07:54,040
Speaker 8: of advantage of the system, right, which is that it's

2538
02:07:54,160 --> 02:07:57,200
Speaker 8: all these different nodes that are like bound together in

2539
02:07:57,240 --> 02:08:01,360
Speaker 8: this like extremely convoluted weave. The strength of the system

2540
02:08:01,440 --> 02:08:05,440
Speaker 8: is also its weakness. It means that we're all getting

2541
02:08:05,600 --> 02:08:09,920
Speaker 8: dragged down together with the system when it stopped working

2542
02:08:10,360 --> 02:08:12,800
Speaker 8: because we all rely on stuff from all over the world.

2543
02:08:13,160 --> 02:08:15,000
Speaker 8: The way that the system has a bout us altogether

2544
02:08:15,080 --> 02:08:17,840
Speaker 8: means that we're all reliant on every other part of

2545
02:08:17,880 --> 02:08:21,800
Speaker 8: the economy, and we're all reliant on oil. And this

2546
02:08:22,040 --> 02:08:24,840
Speaker 8: is sort of the root of the catastrophe and also

2547
02:08:24,920 --> 02:08:27,720
Speaker 8: the reason why this crash is operating in slow motion.

2548
02:08:28,280 --> 02:08:31,520
Speaker 8: In order to stop the international labor movement, right, this

2549
02:08:31,560 --> 02:08:33,480
Speaker 8: system was set up in a specific way where it

2550
02:08:33,480 --> 02:08:35,440
Speaker 8: works along nose and it is supposed to be designed

2551
02:08:35,440 --> 02:08:39,600
Speaker 8: to deal with a crisis like this, so instead of

2552
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:44,200
Speaker 8: collapsing immediately, it collapses in slow motion. But it is

2553
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:47,680
Speaker 8: still collapsing because capital and I guess like the presidents

2554
02:08:47,720 --> 02:08:51,600
Speaker 8: of the United States, has taken the action that the

2555
02:08:51,600 --> 02:08:54,720
Speaker 8: system was designed to avoid, which is like, you know,

2556
02:08:54,800 --> 02:08:58,680
Speaker 8: like a large scale blockade of production, and the consequences

2557
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:03,600
Speaker 8: of this are both die and expanding as we speak. Yeah,

2558
02:09:03,680 --> 02:09:08,160
Speaker 8: this has been It could happen here. Things are only

2559
02:09:08,200 --> 02:09:10,040
Speaker 8: going to get worse before they get better.

2560
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:27,960
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the new Devil War's Brata movie. It was

2561
02:09:28,040 --> 02:09:32,520
Speaker 2: weirdly relevant. I did not expect Meryl Streep to deliver

2562
02:09:33,160 --> 02:09:38,240
Speaker 2: like a monologue about how AI is destroying independent internet

2563
02:09:39,040 --> 02:09:42,720
Speaker 2: writers or comedy writers or whatnot, any kind of independent

2564
02:09:42,760 --> 02:09:44,400
Speaker 2: internet writer. But I guess that's what we got.

2565
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,680
Speaker 5: So that's good and thinly veiled Jeff Bezos villain.

2566
02:09:47,440 --> 02:09:48,960
Speaker 2: Then the veiled Jeff Bezos villain.

2567
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:50,240
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

2568
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:53,160
Speaker 2: Well this isn't our movie review podcast, because we don't

2569
02:09:53,200 --> 02:09:55,320
Speaker 2: have one of those, because I would be bad at it.

2570
02:09:55,400 --> 02:09:58,960
Speaker 2: This is Electile Disorder.

2571
02:09:58,520 --> 02:10:04,560
Speaker 5: Function Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in

2572
02:10:04,600 --> 02:10:07,360
Speaker 5: the White House. Now it's fine, the crumbling world and

2573
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:10,200
Speaker 5: what it means for you. Embarrassed Davis today, joined by

2574
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:14,160
Speaker 5: Robert Evans, James stout me along and maybe Sophie Lichterman.

2575
02:10:14,680 --> 02:10:17,600
Speaker 5: This episode, we are covering the week of April thirtieth

2576
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:20,040
Speaker 5: to May sixth. I want to roll things back to

2577
02:10:20,280 --> 02:10:24,400
Speaker 5: just before we recorded, because Sophie brought up the California

2578
02:10:24,520 --> 02:10:27,520
Speaker 5: gubernatorial debate that happened Tuesday.

2579
02:10:27,200 --> 02:10:30,440
Speaker 2: Night, Ubernatorial Garrison, you gotta make it sound so please.

2580
02:10:30,560 --> 02:10:34,040
Speaker 5: Which I tried watching as that kind of is my job,

2581
02:10:34,440 --> 02:10:37,360
Speaker 5: only to discover it was not streaming anywhere online and

2582
02:10:37,520 --> 02:10:43,200
Speaker 5: only available feel the CNN channel on television like you know,

2583
02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:47,120
Speaker 5: like actual TV channels, which prompted Sophie to ask the

2584
02:10:47,120 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 5: good question who is this for?

2585
02:10:48,920 --> 02:10:49,240
Speaker 3: Why?

2586
02:10:49,320 --> 02:10:51,680
Speaker 5: Why? Why does this even exist?

2587
02:10:51,720 --> 02:10:51,880
Speaker 10: Then?

2588
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:54,600
Speaker 5: If only people watching cable can watch it? And then

2589
02:10:54,640 --> 02:10:57,280
Speaker 5: I realized the real reason this exists is to generate

2590
02:10:57,840 --> 02:11:00,480
Speaker 5: short video clips for social media. And that's I guess

2591
02:11:00,520 --> 02:11:03,040
Speaker 5: how most people are actually engaging with this debate in

2592
02:11:03,440 --> 02:11:09,320
Speaker 5: contextless fifty second that's generous chunks of time in which

2593
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:13,720
Speaker 5: Stier came off the best, did not come off great,

2594
02:11:14,120 --> 02:11:17,960
Speaker 5: but came off okay, Okay, he came off fine. He

2595
02:11:18,040 --> 02:11:20,680
Speaker 5: had this weird tick where he would be he would

2596
02:11:20,680 --> 02:11:24,440
Speaker 5: ask a question and when he would respond, it would

2597
02:11:24,480 --> 02:11:28,120
Speaker 5: sound like he was deflecting the question even when he wasn't.

2598
02:11:28,160 --> 02:11:32,200
Speaker 5: But the sort of like defensiveness of his framing sounded

2599
02:11:32,240 --> 02:11:34,480
Speaker 5: like he was deflecting a lot of questions that actually

2600
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:38,120
Speaker 5: he was giving kind of good answers to Porter. Was

2601
02:11:39,400 --> 02:11:41,520
Speaker 5: I don't know Sophie. Can you speak about Porter?

2602
02:11:41,680 --> 02:11:43,520
Speaker 2: I don't Porter, I hardly know her.

2603
02:11:43,720 --> 02:11:45,680
Speaker 11: I don't have a mic, so I'll be really quick.

2604
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:46,800
Speaker 4: That was pretty good.

2605
02:11:48,120 --> 02:11:54,400
Speaker 11: Porter kind of overcoppensati snarky remarks. But she's only pulling

2606
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:57,640
Speaker 11: like eight or ten percent, where Sultan and Styr are

2607
02:11:57,800 --> 02:12:03,000
Speaker 11: both pulling closer to twenty. Also, Steve Hilton ew.

2608
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:06,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, short video content has not been kind to Katie

2609
02:12:06,120 --> 02:12:08,120
Speaker 3: Porter in the in the last couple of years.

2610
02:12:08,440 --> 02:12:12,160
Speaker 5: It was interesting earlier that morning, Katie Porter released an

2611
02:12:12,200 --> 02:12:15,880
Speaker 5: ad that ended with a joke about her abuse of

2612
02:12:15,920 --> 02:12:18,480
Speaker 5: her staff. Ended with like a reference to a line

2613
02:12:18,520 --> 02:12:21,440
Speaker 5: that she said that was in those articles and like

2614
02:12:21,560 --> 02:12:24,200
Speaker 5: she had all these background extras laugh at the joke

2615
02:12:24,640 --> 02:12:29,200
Speaker 5: referencing the abuse allegations against her to her staff. Interesting choice,

2616
02:12:29,360 --> 02:12:33,680
Speaker 5: crazy move. Who is that for? Who is that for?

2617
02:12:34,840 --> 02:12:37,120
Speaker 2: I mean, you know what it is. Actually it's her

2618
02:12:37,800 --> 02:12:41,400
Speaker 2: trying to be like Trump, like One of the lessons

2619
02:12:41,400 --> 02:12:43,960
Speaker 2: that Trump has taught the political class is that if

2620
02:12:44,080 --> 02:12:46,920
Speaker 2: people come at you for like being corrupt or fucked

2621
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:50,879
Speaker 2: up or evil or irresponsible, you just kind of barrel

2622
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:54,680
Speaker 2: right through that. You don't acknowledge it, you don't like

2623
02:12:54,680 --> 02:12:57,160
Speaker 2: acknowledging any validity in it, and like you, you kind

2624
02:12:57,200 --> 02:12:58,880
Speaker 2: of make fun of it. You try to like make

2625
02:12:58,920 --> 02:13:03,280
Speaker 2: it a selling point for yourself. And I'm not saying

2626
02:13:03,280 --> 02:13:04,800
Speaker 2: she's doing a good job of it, but I think

2627
02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:06,240
Speaker 2: that's what is she's trying to do.

2628
02:13:06,360 --> 02:13:08,960
Speaker 5: I think that's she's like tough, no nonsense.

2629
02:13:09,520 --> 02:13:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know.

2630
02:13:11,080 --> 02:13:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, the amount of money being spent on anti Staya

2631
02:13:14,720 --> 02:13:18,160
Speaker 3: attack ads is judging by the amount of them that

2632
02:13:18,280 --> 02:13:20,000
Speaker 3: get beamed into my home every night.

2633
02:13:19,880 --> 02:13:21,560
Speaker 4: Now, it's pretty significant.

2634
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:25,480
Speaker 3: As the resident Californian, I didn't watch the debate because

2635
02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:29,160
Speaker 3: the choices we have make me very angry and upset,

2636
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:33,000
Speaker 3: and I didn't want to think about that.

2637
02:13:33,000 --> 02:13:37,680
Speaker 5: That's politics. Yeah, James, do you want to start with

2638
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:39,920
Speaker 5: a few of yours I see are at the top

2639
02:13:40,040 --> 02:13:41,800
Speaker 5: of the dock here.

2640
02:13:42,920 --> 02:13:45,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, let's begin with the biggest news of the week,

2641
02:13:45,440 --> 02:13:49,000
Speaker 3: which is that the White House Twitter account has shared.

2642
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:50,560
Speaker 4: The new crest for nice.

2643
02:13:50,960 --> 02:13:51,680
Speaker 5: I gotta see this.

2644
02:13:52,160 --> 02:13:54,440
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, click on that. Oh good, thank god she

2645
02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:55,080
Speaker 4: had that screen.

2646
02:13:55,080 --> 02:14:01,840
Speaker 3: Garrison garaging you can't have a treat and must share

2647
02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:02,560
Speaker 3: with everybody.

2648
02:14:02,640 --> 02:14:04,040
Speaker 5: I've get I've got it. I'm good, I've got to

2649
02:14:04,080 --> 02:14:04,880
Speaker 5: get there.

2650
02:14:04,920 --> 02:14:05,320
Speaker 4: We go.

2651
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:10,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So, yeah, that looks like shit. It looks like

2652
02:14:10,560 --> 02:14:12,640
Speaker 2: lazily AI generated garbage.

2653
02:14:12,800 --> 02:14:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you asked, AI is generated crest for a

2654
02:14:15,160 --> 02:14:16,560
Speaker 3: US law enforcement see.

2655
02:14:16,840 --> 02:14:19,000
Speaker 2: The most basic that could possibly be?

2656
02:14:19,440 --> 02:14:22,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, sure, Oh well.

2657
02:14:22,160 --> 02:14:25,000
Speaker 3: National Immigration and Customs Enforcement nice.

2658
02:14:25,120 --> 02:14:27,400
Speaker 5: Always good. When you throw national in front of any

2659
02:14:27,800 --> 02:14:31,160
Speaker 5: any acronym, that's never it's never turned out bad.

2660
02:14:31,760 --> 02:14:35,480
Speaker 3: As many people have shared with me, several television shows

2661
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:38,360
Speaker 3: had already come up with the idea for rebranding ICE

2662
02:14:38,400 --> 02:14:40,720
Speaker 3: as nice. I don't think this is going to stop

2663
02:14:40,760 --> 02:14:44,400
Speaker 3: them moving on. The DOJ said that it is suing

2664
02:14:44,680 --> 02:14:48,240
Speaker 3: Denver for infringing the Second Amendment. This potains to their

2665
02:14:48,240 --> 02:14:52,480
Speaker 3: assault weapon ban, which bans a lot of semi automatic rifles,

2666
02:14:52,520 --> 02:14:57,520
Speaker 3: including A Fifteen's interesting kind of precedent for DOJ behavior

2667
02:14:57,920 --> 02:14:59,880
Speaker 3: in that obviously, like lots of states have a so

2668
02:15:00,120 --> 02:15:04,760
Speaker 3: weapons bans, and previously we have not seen the DOJ

2669
02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:09,760
Speaker 3: intervene against those and there are a few no cases

2670
02:15:09,800 --> 02:15:12,120
Speaker 3: about them on their way to Supreme Court, with Supreme

2671
02:15:12,120 --> 02:15:14,880
Speaker 3: courts showing any particular desire to get to them.

2672
02:15:15,120 --> 02:15:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been an interesting thing for a while,

2673
02:15:17,480 --> 02:15:21,160
Speaker 2: is that even as the Republican the right has had

2674
02:15:21,200 --> 02:15:24,560
Speaker 2: control of the Supreme Court for years now, they have

2675
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:28,560
Speaker 2: shown a distinct unwillingness to visit the matter of like

2676
02:15:28,640 --> 02:15:33,920
Speaker 2: assault weapons and like magazine capacity bands. Yeah, as well

2677
02:15:33,960 --> 02:15:36,280
Speaker 2: as because there's definitely been some some folks this is

2678
02:15:36,360 --> 02:15:39,440
Speaker 2: less popular, but some some folks on the pro gun

2679
02:15:39,520 --> 02:15:42,320
Speaker 2: side who want them to look at like state level

2680
02:15:42,880 --> 02:15:46,080
Speaker 2: restrictions on like you have to like waiting periods and stuff.

2681
02:15:46,680 --> 02:15:50,320
Speaker 2: And it's just kind of been this detent that's existed,

2682
02:15:50,360 --> 02:15:53,560
Speaker 2: where like they have not pushed too far in a

2683
02:15:53,560 --> 02:15:56,000
Speaker 2: certain direction to like limit what Blue states can do

2684
02:15:56,080 --> 02:15:58,920
Speaker 2: with their gun control and if if they are, that's

2685
02:15:58,960 --> 02:15:59,960
Speaker 2: an interesting ship.

2686
02:16:01,240 --> 02:16:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting that this has gone after it's a

2687
02:16:04,640 --> 02:16:07,040
Speaker 3: civil rights to it's through the Civil rights Division, right,

2688
02:16:07,560 --> 02:16:10,560
Speaker 3: I guess they're using the Hella precedent, right, which was

2689
02:16:10,600 --> 02:16:12,440
Speaker 3: the last time and it was Hell, it wasn't the

2690
02:16:12,480 --> 02:16:12,840
Speaker 3: last time.

2691
02:16:12,840 --> 02:16:13,760
Speaker 4: The previous one was.

2692
02:16:13,720 --> 02:16:16,879
Speaker 3: Bruin yeah, yeah, sir, Yeah, yeah, bruin the Brewant decision,

2693
02:16:17,200 --> 02:16:20,120
Speaker 3: which was the last time that the Supreme Court really

2694
02:16:20,120 --> 02:16:23,280
Speaker 3: made it made to change to national firearms rules. Right,

2695
02:16:23,800 --> 02:16:26,440
Speaker 3: It's interesting they're going off to Denver and not like,

2696
02:16:26,480 --> 02:16:28,320
Speaker 3: for instance, California.

2697
02:16:28,800 --> 02:16:32,880
Speaker 2: Well, Denver has a specific there's specifically banned VAR fifteen

2698
02:16:33,000 --> 02:16:36,800
Speaker 2: as opposed to California doesn't ban any specific guns. They

2699
02:16:36,800 --> 02:16:40,800
Speaker 2: banned features on firearms. So I suspect that would be

2700
02:16:40,879 --> 02:16:45,160
Speaker 2: why is that Denver is going Colorado's going after this

2701
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:48,280
Speaker 2: specific firearm that and the argument that's going to be

2702
02:16:48,320 --> 02:16:51,280
Speaker 2: made is that the Air fifteen is the common most

2703
02:16:51,280 --> 02:16:55,680
Speaker 2: commonly available like rifle. Like it's absolutely the equivalent of

2704
02:16:55,720 --> 02:16:58,600
Speaker 2: a musket in its day, is the argument that they

2705
02:16:58,600 --> 02:17:01,320
Speaker 2: will be making because I Clarence Thomas has made that

2706
02:17:01,400 --> 02:17:05,359
Speaker 2: argument before. Yeah, so California never tried to ban air fifteens.

2707
02:17:05,400 --> 02:17:07,000
Speaker 2: They just made it a giant pain and they ask

2708
02:17:07,080 --> 02:17:09,600
Speaker 2: to own them. And that's a lot I think safer

2709
02:17:09,640 --> 02:17:13,119
Speaker 2: from this sort of attack, although I guess we'll see.

2710
02:17:13,240 --> 02:17:18,240
Speaker 3: You know, Denver's assault weapons ban is not the same

2711
02:17:18,360 --> 02:17:20,600
Speaker 3: as California's, but nor does it ban.

2712
02:17:20,680 --> 02:17:22,360
Speaker 4: AAR fifteen's by name.

2713
02:17:22,480 --> 02:17:28,400
Speaker 3: I'm just reading from the Denver Municipal Code, Section thirty

2714
02:17:28,440 --> 02:17:32,240
Speaker 3: eight one thirty the categories or the way it defines

2715
02:17:32,440 --> 02:17:35,640
Speaker 3: an assault weapon is a semi automatic centerfire rifle with a

2716
02:17:35,680 --> 02:17:39,279
Speaker 3: detachable magazine capacity at for twenty one rounds or higher.

2717
02:17:40,240 --> 02:17:43,879
Speaker 3: That's subsequent legislation arter that which further limits magazine capacity

2718
02:17:44,320 --> 02:17:49,280
Speaker 3: in Colorado all semi automatic shotguns that can take more

2719
02:17:49,320 --> 02:17:53,560
Speaker 3: than six cartridges and or have a folding stock, or

2720
02:17:54,480 --> 02:17:57,560
Speaker 3: a weapon which can be converted into one of those things.

2721
02:17:58,360 --> 02:18:01,800
Speaker 3: So that's actually a pretty it's not the same as

2722
02:18:01,800 --> 02:18:05,080
Speaker 3: a California ban. It's interesting to see them picking this one.

2723
02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:07,760
Speaker 3: It's also pretty old. It Denver started. It's a sort

2724
02:18:07,800 --> 02:18:10,400
Speaker 3: weapons ban story. It's been through the courts quite a

2725
02:18:10,440 --> 02:18:14,280
Speaker 3: few times, but it begins in nineteen eighty nine. But yeah,

2726
02:18:14,320 --> 02:18:17,760
Speaker 3: it's an interesting sort of area that will keep tabs on.

2727
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:20,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll keep because there's a couple of big gun

2728
02:18:20,160 --> 02:18:22,520
Speaker 2: things going in front of the Supreme Court this year.

2729
02:18:23,080 --> 02:18:26,640
Speaker 2: Right like earlier in March, the Court heard arguments on

2730
02:18:26,680 --> 02:18:29,800
Speaker 2: the United States versus HARMANI, which was a case about

2731
02:18:29,800 --> 02:18:33,240
Speaker 2: the legality of basically, if you're using a drug that

2732
02:18:33,360 --> 02:18:35,320
Speaker 2: is illegal, even if it's like a drug, even if

2733
02:18:35,360 --> 02:18:37,880
Speaker 2: it's marijuana and it's legal at the state level, if

2734
02:18:37,879 --> 02:18:41,840
Speaker 2: it's like federally illegal, you cannot possess own that you

2735
02:18:41,879 --> 02:18:45,839
Speaker 2: do anything with guns, right, And that's not really constitutional

2736
02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:48,600
Speaker 2: because the Second Amendment, like it or not, is like

2737
02:18:48,640 --> 02:18:52,080
Speaker 2: a civil right, and the idea that like, you lose

2738
02:18:52,120 --> 02:18:55,240
Speaker 2: a civil right because you're like ingested a substance at

2739
02:18:55,280 --> 02:18:59,920
Speaker 2: some point is like a wildly dangerous and anyway whatever.

2740
02:19:00,200 --> 02:19:02,600
Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing that just again, courts have

2741
02:19:02,680 --> 02:19:06,680
Speaker 2: refused to sort of take seriously, even though everyone's known

2742
02:19:06,720 --> 02:19:09,240
Speaker 2: there's very thin precedents. So the fact that the Supreme

2743
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:12,640
Speaker 2: Court is finally hearing arguments on this is really interesting.

2744
02:19:12,680 --> 02:19:13,800
Speaker 2: This is a case of a guy who had both

2745
02:19:13,840 --> 02:19:18,279
Speaker 2: marijuana and cocaine on him when he got busted, and yeah,

2746
02:19:18,360 --> 02:19:20,920
Speaker 2: so we'll also cover that case. But there's a lot

2747
02:19:20,959 --> 02:19:23,119
Speaker 2: of going to be a lot of interesting gun stuff

2748
02:19:23,480 --> 02:19:26,680
Speaker 2: happening this year, not all of it bad, because honestly,

2749
02:19:26,879 --> 02:19:30,000
Speaker 2: if the Supreme Court were to rule that, like, no,

2750
02:19:30,080 --> 02:19:32,680
Speaker 2: you can't say someone can't own a gun just because

2751
02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:35,040
Speaker 2: they smoked pot, I would say that's a net win.

2752
02:19:35,680 --> 02:19:38,920
Speaker 2: But obviously there's a lot of you know, violations of

2753
02:19:38,959 --> 02:19:41,720
Speaker 2: States rights and whatnot. That's that's going to be I'm

2754
02:19:41,760 --> 02:19:44,400
Speaker 2: sure a part of this too. It'll be a messy

2755
02:19:44,560 --> 02:19:46,400
Speaker 2: summer for that, but this is going to be some

2756
02:19:46,520 --> 02:19:47,680
Speaker 2: major stories this year.

2757
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:50,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah. I think we'll certainly see some

2758
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:55,879
Speaker 3: movement here. Bortal Wool construction crews have destroyed an intaglio

2759
02:19:56,000 --> 02:19:59,480
Speaker 3: sacred to the Autumn people. The son Old Last playas

2760
02:19:59,520 --> 02:20:04,800
Speaker 3: Intagli sacred site is irreparably damaged, despite the ing gray

2761
02:20:04,840 --> 02:20:09,480
Speaker 3: world recorded and having been identified to construction crews by

2762
02:20:09,560 --> 02:20:14,360
Speaker 3: cultural monitors. Ton Oudam chairman Verlin Jose said, quote, this

2763
02:20:14,560 --> 02:20:18,160
Speaker 3: was a devastating and entirely avoidable loss. There is nothing

2764
02:20:18,400 --> 02:20:21,320
Speaker 3: more important than our history, which is what makes us

2765
02:20:21,520 --> 02:20:24,800
Speaker 3: who we are. As oddum, the site was also an

2766
02:20:24,879 --> 02:20:28,480
Speaker 3: irreparable piece of the United States history, one none of

2767
02:20:28,600 --> 02:20:31,160
Speaker 3: us can ever get back. The nation's leaders have and

2768
02:20:31,280 --> 02:20:34,040
Speaker 3: will continue to meet with senior Department of Homeland Security

2769
02:20:34,080 --> 02:20:37,000
Speaker 3: officials to obtain more information and to communicate the nation's

2770
02:20:37,040 --> 02:20:41,039
Speaker 3: absolute insistance so this cannot happen again. And then, finally

2771
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:44,000
Speaker 3: for me, the United States State Department has approved the

2772
02:20:44,080 --> 02:20:49,400
Speaker 3: sale of Jadam's to Ukraine, which is a significant increase

2773
02:20:49,440 --> 02:20:52,880
Speaker 3: in their capacity. Right jam if people an't familiar, stands

2774
02:20:52,920 --> 02:20:56,880
Speaker 3: to a joint director attack comlicition, think big bomb, Like

2775
02:20:57,200 --> 02:21:00,440
Speaker 3: it's a guided bomb. It can either be bomb that

2776
02:21:00,520 --> 02:21:03,560
Speaker 3: comes guided or you can you can change a different

2777
02:21:03,640 --> 02:21:05,480
Speaker 3: munition to make it become guided.

2778
02:21:05,720 --> 02:21:08,400
Speaker 2: These are packages, right, Like, these are kits that you

2779
02:21:08,520 --> 02:21:10,720
Speaker 2: take so you have like a bomb of a various

2780
02:21:10,840 --> 02:21:14,920
Speaker 2: sizes because they can range, and you like basically apply

2781
02:21:15,080 --> 02:21:17,040
Speaker 2: this kit to them and it makes it into a

2782
02:21:17,200 --> 02:21:20,520
Speaker 2: guided munition. Right. So it's a you can have whatever

2783
02:21:20,640 --> 02:21:24,320
Speaker 2: kind of explosive package you want and you can convert

2784
02:21:24,360 --> 02:21:26,720
Speaker 2: it into a guided munition that you then you know,

2785
02:21:27,320 --> 02:21:30,759
Speaker 2: drop or throw or whatever via you know, whichever.

2786
02:21:30,440 --> 02:21:32,840
Speaker 8: Platform you have it to be using. Yeah, these are

2787
02:21:32,879 --> 02:21:34,480
Speaker 8: like aircraft fired right.

2788
02:21:35,240 --> 02:21:39,240
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And in these case they're extended range tail kits.

2789
02:21:39,800 --> 02:21:43,720
Speaker 3: It's not the bomb itself, but the thing that allows

2790
02:21:43,800 --> 02:21:46,760
Speaker 3: the bomb to be delivered to a target.

2791
02:21:47,440 --> 02:21:47,560
Speaker 4: Right.

2792
02:21:47,680 --> 02:21:50,920
Speaker 2: Again, this is a package. You have a bomb that's

2793
02:21:50,959 --> 02:21:52,920
Speaker 2: a dumb explosive and this is the thing that you

2794
02:21:53,040 --> 02:21:55,120
Speaker 2: put onto it that allows it to be like a

2795
02:21:55,240 --> 02:21:58,920
Speaker 2: smart munition that's targeted. Like it's it's an air to

2796
02:21:59,040 --> 02:22:02,920
Speaker 2: surface munition. Generally they're like one thousand two thousand pound

2797
02:22:03,000 --> 02:22:04,960
Speaker 2: warheads I think for the most part.

2798
02:22:05,160 --> 02:22:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess in this case it would depend on

2799
02:22:08,400 --> 02:22:09,840
Speaker 3: whatever the warhead is, right.

2800
02:22:10,520 --> 02:22:12,720
Speaker 2: But like there's there's five hundred pound ones, Like there's

2801
02:22:12,760 --> 02:22:14,800
Speaker 2: a variety of sizes.

2802
02:22:16,080 --> 02:22:20,680
Speaker 3: Obviously, the Ukrainians have used many of their long range

2803
02:22:20,720 --> 02:22:25,040
Speaker 3: assets right to attack Russia inside Russia. Previously, this has

2804
02:22:25,080 --> 02:22:27,800
Speaker 3: been something the United States had kind of drawn a

2805
02:22:27,959 --> 02:22:28,560
Speaker 3: line at.

2806
02:22:28,920 --> 02:22:31,440
Speaker 4: That seems to no longer be the case. This will

2807
02:22:31,480 --> 02:22:34,440
Speaker 4: obviously also be a massive contract right there.

2808
02:22:34,480 --> 02:22:36,520
Speaker 3: The principal contractor he's going to be Boeing, who are

2809
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:40,680
Speaker 3: located in Saint Louis, and the estimated total cost is

2810
02:22:40,680 --> 02:22:43,480
Speaker 3: about a third of a billion dollars, so three hundred

2811
02:22:43,520 --> 02:22:44,199
Speaker 3: and seventy.

2812
02:22:43,959 --> 02:22:45,280
Speaker 4: Three million to be exact.

2813
02:22:45,640 --> 02:22:47,440
Speaker 2: There's been like a big push in a couple of

2814
02:22:47,480 --> 02:22:51,520
Speaker 2: different states to increase munition production, and it has been

2815
02:22:51,680 --> 02:22:53,640
Speaker 2: very uneven in terms of how it's worked so far.

2816
02:22:53,760 --> 02:22:56,320
Speaker 2: They've encountered a lot of issues scaling up production to

2817
02:22:56,360 --> 02:22:59,480
Speaker 2: the level they need. I'm not convinced in our ability

2818
02:22:59,560 --> 02:23:03,000
Speaker 2: to actually like meet this at the time frame being proposed,

2819
02:23:03,080 --> 02:23:06,280
Speaker 2: but we'll see. That's what we I've caught. I've been

2820
02:23:06,480 --> 02:23:08,880
Speaker 2: reporting on that a couple of times so far. This Yeah, yeah,

2821
02:23:09,000 --> 02:23:12,400
Speaker 2: the munition shortage and our issues and scaling up product production.

2822
02:23:12,520 --> 02:23:14,959
Speaker 2: I'll probably do something later this year, like a more

2823
02:23:15,000 --> 02:23:17,560
Speaker 2: detailed look at like what the pitfalls have been. But

2824
02:23:18,400 --> 02:23:21,560
Speaker 2: it's actually surprisingly hard just because they say we're putting

2825
02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:24,840
Speaker 2: this much money into, you know, creating these facilities or

2826
02:23:24,920 --> 02:23:28,400
Speaker 2: encouraging the production to scale up, it's not necessarily that

2827
02:23:28,480 --> 02:23:29,560
Speaker 2: easy to actually do that.

2828
02:23:30,680 --> 02:23:32,680
Speaker 3: A close to State Department says there will be no

2829
02:23:32,800 --> 02:23:35,280
Speaker 3: adverse impact on US defense readiness as a result of

2830
02:23:35,320 --> 02:23:36,120
Speaker 3: this for post sale.

2831
02:23:36,400 --> 02:23:37,680
Speaker 2: I don't see why there would.

2832
02:23:37,879 --> 02:23:39,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what they're going to say.

2833
02:23:39,520 --> 02:23:42,800
Speaker 2: These are standoff munitions. The US military is not show

2834
02:23:42,840 --> 02:23:44,640
Speaker 2: on them for our purposes. But like the shit that

2835
02:23:45,040 --> 02:23:49,280
Speaker 2: we're getting cleaned out on primarily is not Like this

2836
02:23:49,440 --> 02:23:51,680
Speaker 2: is not the main thing. I mean, we're definitely being stretched,

2837
02:23:51,720 --> 02:23:54,680
Speaker 2: but this is not the main thing. It's it's sidewinders.

2838
02:23:54,720 --> 02:23:57,560
Speaker 2: It's like our cruise missiles and it's our our interceptor

2839
02:23:57,600 --> 02:24:00,640
Speaker 2: missiles are like the big things that we're st right

2840
02:24:00,680 --> 02:24:02,600
Speaker 2: now speaking of.

2841
02:24:03,600 --> 02:24:07,960
Speaker 5: On May one, Resident Trump quote unquote joked that's some

2842
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:10,360
Speaker 5: most people are referring to this joke that we will

2843
02:24:10,360 --> 02:24:15,680
Speaker 5: be sure quote unquote taking over Cuba almost immediately great

2844
02:24:15,959 --> 02:24:17,519
Speaker 5: after finishing.

2845
02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:18,520
Speaker 2: With Iran sounds real.

2846
02:24:18,640 --> 02:24:21,880
Speaker 5: He has made previous comments to this effect the past

2847
02:24:21,959 --> 02:24:22,560
Speaker 5: few months.

2848
02:24:22,760 --> 02:24:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, his joke was that Abraham Lincoln would stop on

2849
02:24:25,520 --> 02:24:27,840
Speaker 3: the way back from Iran right and park off one

2850
02:24:27,920 --> 02:24:30,840
Speaker 3: hundred yards off the coast of Cuba and they would

2851
02:24:30,879 --> 02:24:31,760
Speaker 3: immediately surrender.

2852
02:24:31,920 --> 02:24:32,920
Speaker 2: Just kind of knock that out.

2853
02:24:33,240 --> 02:24:34,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we're going to get onto this, but

2854
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:38,320
Speaker 3: this is not the only thing pointing towards Cuba right now.

2855
02:24:39,280 --> 02:24:40,800
Speaker 2: I have trouble knowing how this is going to go

2856
02:24:40,840 --> 02:24:45,080
Speaker 2: because obviously, like Venezuela was the best case scenario for them,

2857
02:24:45,400 --> 02:24:48,720
Speaker 2: Like Maduro was not personally popular, and he had us,

2858
02:24:49,080 --> 02:24:51,720
Speaker 2: he had like the apparatus below him, was more than

2859
02:24:51,840 --> 02:24:54,400
Speaker 2: happy to just kind of like everyone move up a

2860
02:24:54,520 --> 02:24:57,920
Speaker 2: step and be nicer to the US on paper, like,

2861
02:24:58,240 --> 02:25:02,600
Speaker 2: whereas Iran, that's certainly not how anything has worked out,

2862
02:25:02,600 --> 02:25:04,680
Speaker 2: because you had this whole state has been built for

2863
02:25:04,879 --> 02:25:10,000
Speaker 2: the last sixty years to endure casualties without like losing

2864
02:25:10,080 --> 02:25:13,959
Speaker 2: operational capacity or its ability to resist. Cuba's not really

2865
02:25:14,120 --> 02:25:16,960
Speaker 2: quite like either government and I don't know what's going

2866
02:25:17,040 --> 02:25:19,280
Speaker 2: to happen. You know, on one hand, it is a

2867
02:25:19,360 --> 02:25:23,560
Speaker 2: country that's exhausted by decades of sanctions and exhausted by

2868
02:25:24,120 --> 02:25:27,240
Speaker 2: you know what has become after Venezuela since they're no

2869
02:25:27,320 --> 02:25:29,800
Speaker 2: longer sending fuel cube, but like their fuel crisis is

2870
02:25:29,920 --> 02:25:32,560
Speaker 2: just devastating. I don't know. Maybe it is a case

2871
02:25:32,640 --> 02:25:37,680
Speaker 2: where the government would capitulate fairly quickly, and then you

2872
02:25:37,959 --> 02:25:41,320
Speaker 2: just kind of have the okay, what happens now question,

2873
02:25:41,600 --> 02:25:44,280
Speaker 2: like the humanitarian issue, which I'm sure would be very

2874
02:25:44,320 --> 02:25:47,120
Speaker 2: I'm sure you'd get a lot of like grifters get

2875
02:25:47,360 --> 02:25:49,400
Speaker 2: flowed in there by the Trump administration. It would not

2876
02:25:49,560 --> 02:25:54,480
Speaker 2: be a positive situation. Or you know, is this a

2877
02:25:54,600 --> 02:25:57,880
Speaker 2: thing where there would be even as exhausted as people are,

2878
02:25:58,000 --> 02:26:01,640
Speaker 2: immediate and like vicious resistance to any attempt by the

2879
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:04,360
Speaker 2: US to assert its will politically over there.

2880
02:26:04,400 --> 02:26:07,280
Speaker 4: I have no idea. And the other thing is that military.

2881
02:26:07,920 --> 02:26:10,080
Speaker 3: It's more when it's why it's he's at than where

2882
02:26:10,120 --> 02:26:14,480
Speaker 3: around he's at, Right they get out, sure, and the funded.

2883
02:26:14,240 --> 02:26:16,720
Speaker 2: It was the Cuban military that we were fighting in

2884
02:26:16,840 --> 02:26:20,040
Speaker 2: Venezuela to an extent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

2885
02:26:20,280 --> 02:26:20,680
Speaker 4: I don't know.

2886
02:26:21,000 --> 02:26:24,840
Speaker 2: That said like, it's also at the point at which

2887
02:26:25,480 --> 02:26:28,920
Speaker 2: those carrier groups are trying to do that in Cuba,

2888
02:26:29,000 --> 02:26:32,240
Speaker 2: they'll have been on almost twice as long as they're

2889
02:26:32,240 --> 02:26:34,520
Speaker 2: normally supposed to be out, and who knows, Like what

2890
02:26:34,680 --> 02:26:37,080
Speaker 2: is done in Iran? Look like what's that going to mean?

2891
02:26:37,320 --> 02:26:39,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, like there that war is not ending anytime soon.

2892
02:26:40,200 --> 02:26:42,440
Speaker 8: So like I mean, maybe he just tries to do

2893
02:26:42,520 --> 02:26:46,280
Speaker 8: it at the same time, but like it's yeah, I

2894
02:26:46,320 --> 02:26:48,480
Speaker 8: don't know. We're stuck in the mutual blockade right now,

2895
02:26:48,640 --> 02:26:51,360
Speaker 8: so impossible to know what he's gonna do or what

2896
02:26:51,400 --> 02:26:53,879
Speaker 8: will what will happen as a result of it, other

2897
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:55,960
Speaker 8: than I don't expect any of it's going to go

2898
02:26:56,080 --> 02:26:58,080
Speaker 8: very well. Nope, it's gonna be a nightmare.

2899
02:26:58,879 --> 02:27:04,000
Speaker 5: In some sad news, on Sunday, America's mayor Rudy Giuliani

2900
02:27:04,280 --> 02:27:07,920
Speaker 5: was sent to the hospital in critical condition. Giuliani is

2901
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:09,880
Speaker 5: obviously a friend of the POD. We had him on

2902
02:27:09,920 --> 02:27:13,280
Speaker 5: a few years ago to discuss sending weapons to Ukraine.

2903
02:27:13,760 --> 02:27:16,280
Speaker 5: We would love to have him back to discuss this

2904
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:21,080
Speaker 5: this recent sale, but unfortunately, Giuliani developed pneumonia after coming

2905
02:27:21,120 --> 02:27:23,240
Speaker 5: back from a trip to Paris and was put on

2906
02:27:23,320 --> 02:27:27,920
Speaker 5: a ventilator this weekend. Now, thankfully he's been since we've

2907
02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:31,880
Speaker 5: taken off the ventilator, and skokesman Ted Goodman, who I

2908
02:27:31,959 --> 02:27:35,320
Speaker 5: do not like very much, announced that Giuliani's condition is

2909
02:27:35,320 --> 02:27:37,920
Speaker 5: stabilized and he is now breathing on his own. Last

2910
02:27:37,959 --> 02:27:40,880
Speaker 5: time we interacted with Goodman, it was specifically him pulling

2911
02:27:40,920 --> 02:27:45,560
Speaker 5: Giuliani away from us after speaking with him for about

2912
02:27:45,600 --> 02:27:49,680
Speaker 5: twenty minutes. So I really don't care for Goodman personally,

2913
02:27:49,879 --> 02:27:52,119
Speaker 5: But I mean, if if Giuliani ever wants to discuss

2914
02:27:52,879 --> 02:27:55,320
Speaker 5: weapons sales to Ukraine on the show again, I'm sure

2915
02:27:55,320 --> 02:27:56,200
Speaker 5: we would love to have him.

2916
02:27:56,400 --> 02:28:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Garret, I saved a little vial of

2917
02:28:00,640 --> 02:28:02,840
Speaker 2: the spittle that that flew off of his mouth when

2918
02:28:02,959 --> 02:28:05,680
Speaker 2: when he and I were discussing UH weapons sales to

2919
02:28:05,800 --> 02:28:08,440
Speaker 2: Ukraine back at the r n C, and I keep

2920
02:28:08,480 --> 02:28:10,760
Speaker 2: it on me every day, and I'm i'm holding it now,

2921
02:28:10,800 --> 02:28:13,080
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm just thinking to you, Rudy. I'm just

2922
02:28:13,200 --> 02:28:15,480
Speaker 2: I'm just pulling for you, man, I'm pulling for you.

2923
02:28:17,440 --> 02:28:33,400
Speaker 5: We'll probably go on and had a break now, Okay,

2924
02:28:34,240 --> 02:28:36,800
Speaker 5: we are back. Robert has just failed to execute a

2925
02:28:36,959 --> 02:28:38,760
Speaker 5: Simpson's themed audio bit.

2926
02:28:39,560 --> 02:28:41,840
Speaker 2: I know I wanted to play you crusty the clowns

2927
02:28:41,920 --> 02:28:45,520
Speaker 2: saying the hantavirus, because we're talking about the haunt virus.

2928
02:28:45,640 --> 02:28:46,320
Speaker 5: Well, that's good enough.

2929
02:28:46,360 --> 02:28:49,360
Speaker 4: There, you're your impression. I think services does that? Does

2930
02:28:49,400 --> 02:28:51,119
Speaker 4: that work? It's beautiful.

2931
02:28:51,360 --> 02:28:54,720
Speaker 5: I'm still saying eight people I suspected, at least people are.

2932
02:28:54,760 --> 02:28:57,320
Speaker 5: They're suspected to be infected with a haunt of virus

2933
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:01,599
Speaker 5: restrain that I've confirmed capable of human to human transmission.

2934
02:29:02,200 --> 02:29:05,680
Speaker 5: This is stemming from an outbreak on a cruise ship.

2935
02:29:06,320 --> 02:29:08,120
Speaker 5: We got to do something about the cruise ships.

2936
02:29:08,440 --> 02:29:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Now they're disease factories. First off, like everyone knows,

2937
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:15,279
Speaker 2: this happens in cruise ships, which is why we shouldn't

2938
02:29:15,280 --> 02:29:18,240
Speaker 2: have them. We don't know exactly how this went down.

2939
02:29:18,320 --> 02:29:20,800
Speaker 2: We know there at least five people are confirmed who

2940
02:29:20,840 --> 02:29:22,920
Speaker 2: have gotten the haunt of virus like they've done, and

2941
02:29:23,120 --> 02:29:27,240
Speaker 2: another three are suspect from testing. Three people are dead, yes,

2942
02:29:27,360 --> 02:29:29,840
Speaker 2: and I think another couple are in serious conditions.

2943
02:29:29,879 --> 02:29:30,119
Speaker 4: Still.

2944
02:29:30,400 --> 02:29:33,480
Speaker 2: Yes, it's not known how they got it. It's possible

2945
02:29:33,600 --> 02:29:36,480
Speaker 2: that some of them were human to human transmission.

2946
02:29:37,120 --> 02:29:42,200
Speaker 5: Argentine officials believe that a Dutch couple contracted the virus

2947
02:29:42,240 --> 02:29:45,240
Speaker 5: about bird watching at a landfill where they may have

2948
02:29:45,280 --> 02:29:48,760
Speaker 5: been exposed to rat poop before boarding the cruise ship.

2949
02:29:48,959 --> 02:29:52,440
Speaker 5: What a series auntavirus has been has been a problem

2950
02:29:52,480 --> 02:29:55,720
Speaker 5: in Argentina for the past year. This has been a

2951
02:29:55,840 --> 02:29:59,039
Speaker 5: known problem. Oh yeah, some human to human cases. There's

2952
02:29:59,080 --> 02:30:02,520
Speaker 5: multiple strains there now. So far, three people are suspected

2953
02:30:02,560 --> 02:30:04,920
Speaker 5: to have died from the virus, while three others have

2954
02:30:04,959 --> 02:30:08,280
Speaker 5: been evacuated to Europe from the cruise ship for treatment.

2955
02:30:09,000 --> 02:30:11,920
Speaker 2: To be clear, it's not because because this is what

2956
02:30:11,959 --> 02:30:15,280
Speaker 2: I'd read, it's a strain that can be transmitted human

2957
02:30:15,320 --> 02:30:17,879
Speaker 2: to human. Ok they don't know how everyone who got

2958
02:30:17,920 --> 02:30:20,080
Speaker 2: it got it, Like, they don't know that everyone who

2959
02:30:20,160 --> 02:30:22,360
Speaker 2: got it was human to human or that they were

2960
02:30:22,520 --> 02:30:25,600
Speaker 2: didn't all just get exposed to the same droppings. But

2961
02:30:25,680 --> 02:30:30,760
Speaker 2: it's the Andean strain that can transfer humanity. Okay, it's

2962
02:30:31,080 --> 02:30:34,720
Speaker 2: a problem, but probably it'll be fine, right, Garrison Well,

2963
02:30:35,080 --> 02:30:35,560
Speaker 2: the World.

2964
02:30:35,400 --> 02:30:41,680
Speaker 5: Health Organization's top epidemic expert Maria van Kirkhov, has cautioned, quote,

2965
02:30:42,200 --> 02:30:44,240
Speaker 5: this is not the next COVID, but it is a

2966
02:30:44,320 --> 02:30:47,680
Speaker 5: serious infectious disease. Most people will never be exposed to

2967
02:30:47,760 --> 02:30:52,120
Speaker 5: this unquote, and Reuters included a statement from the World

2968
02:30:52,160 --> 02:30:55,680
Speaker 5: Health Organization and they're reporting. They say that the risk

2969
02:30:55,800 --> 02:30:59,080
Speaker 5: to the public remains low and that the variant detected

2970
02:30:59,160 --> 02:31:03,480
Speaker 5: among passengers can be spread between humans only through close

2971
02:31:03,640 --> 02:31:08,520
Speaker 5: prolonged contact unquote. Now, there is contact tracing currently in

2972
02:31:08,680 --> 02:31:13,440
Speaker 5: effect by officials in South Africa and Switzerland specifically, who

2973
02:31:13,440 --> 02:31:17,000
Speaker 5: are tracking a few people that departed the ship. Many

2974
02:31:17,080 --> 02:31:19,360
Speaker 5: others are still on the ship, which is set to

2975
02:31:19,480 --> 02:31:23,279
Speaker 5: land either at Spain or some of the Canary Islands

2976
02:31:23,320 --> 02:31:26,280
Speaker 5: around Spain in a few days. That's what that's what

2977
02:31:26,400 --> 02:31:28,480
Speaker 5: we know. That's what we know. So sure, yeah, it's

2978
02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:30,960
Speaker 5: it's this is changing like literally by the hour, so

2979
02:31:31,480 --> 02:31:33,040
Speaker 5: it's possible by the time you listen to this there'll

2980
02:31:33,040 --> 02:31:35,800
Speaker 5: be a whole bunch of more information about what's happened.

2981
02:31:36,160 --> 02:31:39,320
Speaker 5: But that is the current, the current situation as of

2982
02:31:39,560 --> 02:31:41,080
Speaker 5: Wednesday afternoon.

2983
02:31:41,879 --> 02:31:44,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I think we can also say definitively that

2984
02:31:44,120 --> 02:31:46,040
Speaker 8: if you want to avoid the haunt of virus, like

2985
02:31:46,160 --> 02:31:48,240
Speaker 8: the number one step you can take is not getting

2986
02:31:48,280 --> 02:31:49,119
Speaker 8: on a plague ship.

2987
02:31:49,720 --> 02:31:50,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, and.

2988
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:56,039
Speaker 3: Land landfill to cruise ships. It's a series.

2989
02:31:56,680 --> 02:32:01,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, we can. We have the technology to avoid this.

2990
02:32:02,120 --> 02:32:08,120
Speaker 5: Speaking of rat poop, on Wednesday, ms NOW my favorite

2991
02:32:08,120 --> 02:32:13,520
Speaker 5: outlet reported that the FBI is investigating leaks to the

2992
02:32:13,640 --> 02:32:17,120
Speaker 5: Atlantic Journalists to publish that story about Cash Betel's drinking

2993
02:32:17,200 --> 02:32:21,080
Speaker 5: habits and absences from his job, a story that the

2994
02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:25,000
Speaker 5: FBI is previously called false but now is launching a

2995
02:32:25,160 --> 02:32:30,520
Speaker 5: criminal leak investigation into. These investigations typically focus on leaking

2996
02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:34,520
Speaker 5: classhid information, which does not appear to be a factor

2997
02:32:34,680 --> 02:32:39,280
Speaker 5: in this Atlantic article. Betel is also suing The Atlantic

2998
02:32:39,320 --> 02:32:42,400
Speaker 5: for defamation for like two hundred and fifty million dollars,

2999
02:32:43,400 --> 02:32:46,320
Speaker 5: and now through this investigation, the FBI may be able

3000
02:32:46,400 --> 02:32:50,360
Speaker 5: to seize the journalist's digital records. The FBI is denied, though,

3001
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:55,720
Speaker 5: that this investigation exists, and a few hours ago the

3002
02:32:55,800 --> 02:32:59,040
Speaker 5: Atlantic Journalists published a follow up story which we should

3003
02:32:59,160 --> 02:33:05,080
Speaker 5: mention that Cash Hotel has been giving away customized whiskey

3004
02:33:05,280 --> 02:33:07,240
Speaker 5: flask bottles, like bottles full full.

3005
02:33:07,120 --> 02:33:10,240
Speaker 4: Full of rate. It's reserve. It's what it is. It's

3006
02:33:10,240 --> 02:33:11,400
Speaker 4: a bottle.

3007
02:33:11,480 --> 02:33:14,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got his own bottle of Woodford reserve. Yeah

3008
02:33:14,360 --> 02:33:16,600
Speaker 3: he's getting he's getting what Costco has.

3009
02:33:16,840 --> 02:33:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's getting like a thoroughly mediocre, like middling bourbon

3010
02:33:20,879 --> 02:33:23,800
Speaker 2: with his name on it, which is definitely something an

3011
02:33:23,840 --> 02:33:28,600
Speaker 2: alcoholic doesn't have. Definitely a normal non alcoholic thing to

3012
02:33:28,720 --> 02:33:31,560
Speaker 2: do is to have like a thirty dollars bottle of

3013
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:33,880
Speaker 2: bourbon with your name on it that you hand out

3014
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:35,440
Speaker 2: to strangers at work.

3015
02:33:37,160 --> 02:33:41,320
Speaker 4: Alcoholics still do. Yeah, it's not great. This is not

3016
02:33:41,400 --> 02:33:42,480
Speaker 4: a great revelation.

3017
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:47,160
Speaker 5: This, this investigation, if real, very very dangerous, right, It's

3018
02:33:47,160 --> 02:33:50,320
Speaker 5: a really really bad shit to happen. To have this

3019
02:33:50,959 --> 02:33:55,160
Speaker 5: clearly like personally motivated weaponization of the FBI against a

3020
02:33:55,240 --> 02:34:01,680
Speaker 5: journalist going through social media records, data bases, digital records,

3021
02:34:01,959 --> 02:34:05,760
Speaker 5: very worrying. But also cash Ptel funny.

3022
02:34:06,600 --> 02:34:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, Cashptel is this fascinating? Like, well, this

3023
02:34:10,480 --> 02:34:15,960
Speaker 2: is should certainly a legal, incredibly dangerous thing to have

3024
02:34:16,080 --> 02:34:19,520
Speaker 2: the FBI director doing, And like what a ridiculous man?

3025
02:34:19,959 --> 02:34:22,280
Speaker 2: What It's just a fundamentally ridiculous guy.

3026
02:34:23,160 --> 02:34:24,160
Speaker 4: I don't know what else to say.

3027
02:34:26,320 --> 02:34:30,000
Speaker 8: Meanwhile, in the broad world of things falling apart, Spirit

3028
02:34:30,040 --> 02:34:33,760
Speaker 8: Airlines has fallen. It is effectively no.

3029
02:34:33,920 --> 02:34:39,160
Speaker 3: More all right, p pouring one out, specifically, a personalized

3030
02:34:39,200 --> 02:34:41,640
Speaker 3: bottle of Woodford Reserve is what I'm pulling out for

3031
02:34:42,000 --> 02:34:42,840
Speaker 3: Spirit Airlines.

3032
02:34:43,360 --> 02:34:45,840
Speaker 8: So Spirit Airlines, I mean, has been in financial trouble

3033
02:34:45,920 --> 02:34:48,760
Speaker 8: for a bit, but it has now filed for bankruptcy.

3034
02:34:48,840 --> 02:34:51,119
Speaker 8: It has grounded all of its planes and fired everyone.

3035
02:34:51,720 --> 02:34:57,320
Speaker 8: So it is gone, and it is gone very very suddenly.

3036
02:34:57,440 --> 02:34:59,640
Speaker 8: This is not something that was you know, like the

3037
02:35:00,200 --> 02:35:02,600
Speaker 8: there had been long gooing negotiation, not long going, but

3038
02:35:02,640 --> 02:35:04,800
Speaker 8: there have been negotiations with the Trump administration to try

3039
02:35:04,840 --> 02:35:09,560
Speaker 8: to arrange a bailout. But they just kind of woke

3040
02:35:09,680 --> 02:35:11,880
Speaker 8: up one morning and sent everyone a letter of that

3041
02:35:11,920 --> 02:35:14,920
Speaker 8: said you're fired and canceled all the planes, which left

3042
02:35:14,959 --> 02:35:16,600
Speaker 8: a whole bunch of people stranded.

3043
02:35:17,080 --> 02:35:19,760
Speaker 4: Not ideal. Yeah, and this is a.

3044
02:35:19,800 --> 02:35:22,120
Speaker 8: Real catastrophe for a lot of people because there are

3045
02:35:22,120 --> 02:35:24,360
Speaker 8: a bunch of routes that Spirit was doing that there

3046
02:35:24,440 --> 02:35:28,200
Speaker 8: just isn't really coverage of for anything else. And it's

3047
02:35:28,240 --> 02:35:31,840
Speaker 8: also one of the few of these bunch of airlines

3048
02:35:31,920 --> 02:35:35,720
Speaker 8: are getting just hammered by the increase in fuel prices

3049
02:35:36,080 --> 02:35:38,480
Speaker 8: for people who don't know aviation stuff. As much as

3050
02:35:39,040 --> 02:35:41,680
Speaker 8: airplane companies complained about like the cost of labor as

3051
02:35:41,720 --> 02:35:44,720
Speaker 8: they like horrifically exploit flight attendants, the actual most expensive

3052
02:35:44,720 --> 02:35:48,480
Speaker 8: part of flying is fuel, and as fuel prices have skyrocketed,

3053
02:35:48,520 --> 02:35:52,600
Speaker 8: specifically jet fuel prices have skyrocketed, that is taking an

3054
02:35:52,720 --> 02:35:56,920
Speaker 8: absolutely enormous hit out of the bottom line of these companies,

3055
02:35:56,959 --> 02:35:59,160
Speaker 8: and companies that were sort of just barely getting along

3056
02:35:59,240 --> 02:36:03,000
Speaker 8: and operated on the low margins are getting hit really badly.

3057
02:36:03,080 --> 02:36:06,959
Speaker 8: And this is something that's not just a Spirit Airlines thing.

3058
02:36:07,040 --> 02:36:10,320
Speaker 8: This is happening to airlines across the world. It's particularly

3059
02:36:10,520 --> 02:36:15,320
Speaker 8: intense in South and East Asia right now, where a

3060
02:36:15,520 --> 02:36:18,200
Speaker 8: huge number of their airlines are operating in this kind

3061
02:36:18,200 --> 02:36:20,760
Speaker 8: of like they call it like emergency management, where they've

3062
02:36:20,840 --> 02:36:24,400
Speaker 8: like significantly reduced the amount of flights that they're doing.

3063
02:36:25,040 --> 02:36:28,880
Speaker 8: In cases like Korean Air, there routes from you know,

3064
02:36:28,920 --> 02:36:31,440
Speaker 8: for example, like sold in New York, like or operating

3065
02:36:31,480 --> 02:36:35,080
Speaker 8: on two hundred percent price increases. This has been going

3066
02:36:35,120 --> 02:36:39,279
Speaker 8: on for a while. Spirit is the first big American one.

3067
02:36:39,200 --> 02:36:40,960
Speaker 4: To just go out completely.

3068
02:36:41,920 --> 02:36:47,160
Speaker 8: There are reports that Trump personally really wanted to save

3069
02:36:48,400 --> 02:36:54,279
Speaker 8: Spirit Airlines for kind of weird personal reasons.

3070
02:36:54,959 --> 02:36:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can see that, Yeah, but I mean it's Spirit.

3071
02:36:59,320 --> 02:36:59,600
Speaker 4: Also.

3072
02:37:00,640 --> 02:37:04,040
Speaker 2: A part of like why it has fallen apart is

3073
02:37:04,200 --> 02:37:07,040
Speaker 2: that it's been a victim of its own success. Like

3074
02:37:07,200 --> 02:37:11,520
Speaker 2: Spirit introduced to the airline industry, the idea of like, no,

3075
02:37:11,800 --> 02:37:14,280
Speaker 2: everyone should be paying for a bag and for a

3076
02:37:14,360 --> 02:37:17,360
Speaker 2: drink for every single thing. We should financialize every single

3077
02:37:17,440 --> 02:37:20,800
Speaker 2: aspect of the of the airline, of the flying process

3078
02:37:20,879 --> 02:37:24,600
Speaker 2: that we can. And as a result, like they stopped

3079
02:37:24,720 --> 02:37:29,000
Speaker 2: being particularly cheap and they stopped working any different from

3080
02:37:29,040 --> 02:37:31,000
Speaker 2: any of the other airlines. So there was not really

3081
02:37:31,080 --> 02:37:34,000
Speaker 2: much of a reason to go with Spirit as opposed

3082
02:37:34,080 --> 02:37:37,760
Speaker 2: to any of the slightly nicer airlines anymore, you know,

3083
02:37:37,959 --> 02:37:42,640
Speaker 2: Like I mean, I'm not surprised that they are falling, definitely,

3084
02:37:42,800 --> 02:37:46,879
Speaker 2: Like the fuel strike is what has been the death

3085
02:37:46,920 --> 02:37:49,800
Speaker 2: blow to them, but they've been they've been in trouble

3086
02:37:49,840 --> 02:37:50,560
Speaker 2: for a little while.

3087
02:37:51,160 --> 02:37:53,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, And because like we've known that they've been in

3088
02:37:53,520 --> 02:37:58,800
Speaker 8: trouble the Trump administration negotiations, apparently the stumbling block was

3089
02:37:58,879 --> 02:38:01,320
Speaker 8: that the US plan was to give them like five

3090
02:38:01,400 --> 02:38:04,280
Speaker 8: hundred million dollars, but it would involve buying most of

3091
02:38:04,400 --> 02:38:07,320
Speaker 8: their stock, and the rest of the airline industry was

3092
02:38:07,400 --> 02:38:09,880
Speaker 8: like absolutely not, We're not We're not doing a bailout

3093
02:38:09,959 --> 02:38:13,000
Speaker 8: for just one company if like, instead of an industry

3094
02:38:13,080 --> 02:38:16,640
Speaker 8: wide one. And so they started putting pressure and then

3095
02:38:16,959 --> 02:38:20,040
Speaker 8: Trump was apparently looking at like using the Defense Production

3096
02:38:20,160 --> 02:38:22,720
Speaker 8: Act for this, but the Department of Defense finally found

3097
02:38:22,760 --> 02:38:24,840
Speaker 8: a defense Production Act thing that Trump wants to do.

3098
02:38:24,920 --> 02:38:27,680
Speaker 8: That they were like, absolutely not, Like we are simply

3099
02:38:27,800 --> 02:38:31,640
Speaker 8: not doing Like we finally found I've been talking about

3100
02:38:31,640 --> 02:38:33,720
Speaker 8: this in tariff episodes for a long time, where we've

3101
02:38:33,760 --> 02:38:36,440
Speaker 8: been looking for the limit of the president's ability to

3102
02:38:36,520 --> 02:38:39,520
Speaker 8: go this is the national security concern, and apparent limit

3103
02:38:39,800 --> 02:38:42,040
Speaker 8: is buying Speri Airlines.

3104
02:38:44,040 --> 02:38:46,000
Speaker 3: That's funny because it is a time when the US

3105
02:38:46,120 --> 02:38:48,800
Speaker 3: is flying a lot of stuff around the world, like

3106
02:38:48,959 --> 02:38:52,520
Speaker 3: the airlift to Iran has been bonkers.

3107
02:38:53,360 --> 02:38:55,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it would have been fun to see Spirit.

3108
02:38:56,240 --> 02:38:57,840
Speaker 8: The one kind of final that I want to talk

3109
02:38:57,879 --> 02:38:59,840
Speaker 8: about is that there's been a lot of blaming of

3110
02:38:59,879 --> 02:39:04,000
Speaker 8: the from the administration. And you know, there's even been

3111
02:39:04,200 --> 02:39:07,160
Speaker 8: some of this in places like Salon, where there's been

3112
02:39:07,160 --> 02:39:11,160
Speaker 8: a lot of blame on the Biden administration's antitrust unit

3113
02:39:11,280 --> 02:39:14,320
Speaker 8: because in twenty twenty two, there had been an attempt

3114
02:39:14,360 --> 02:39:17,720
Speaker 8: by Spirit Airlines to like merge with Jet Blue, which

3115
02:39:17,800 --> 02:39:19,760
Speaker 8: is like a slightly nicer airline, and there's a lot

3116
02:39:19,800 --> 02:39:21,360
Speaker 8: of people going, oh, well, they wouldn't have gone out

3117
02:39:21,360 --> 02:39:23,000
Speaker 8: of business if they've been allowed to you the merger.

3118
02:39:23,080 --> 02:39:25,120
Speaker 8: But the Biden administration national trust people were like this

3119
02:39:25,240 --> 02:39:32,320
Speaker 8: is obviously a competition issue, and that's maybe kind of true,

3120
02:39:32,400 --> 02:39:34,800
Speaker 8: but it's also like it's not clear to me that

3121
02:39:34,959 --> 02:39:38,320
Speaker 8: like a Jet Blue Spirit airline wouldn't also be in

3122
02:39:38,520 --> 02:39:41,120
Speaker 8: really bad shape right now, Yeah, totally.

3123
02:39:41,240 --> 02:39:41,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3124
02:39:41,520 --> 02:39:44,360
Speaker 8: I think the thing about competition, right is that sometimes

3125
02:39:44,400 --> 02:39:46,120
Speaker 8: you go out of business. And I know this is

3126
02:39:46,160 --> 02:39:50,280
Speaker 8: something that like business people absolutely despise, and like pro

3127
02:39:50,360 --> 02:39:53,080
Speaker 8: minocally people absolutely despise. But like in theory, if you

3128
02:39:53,200 --> 02:39:56,199
Speaker 8: are a supporter of the free market, that means sometimes

3129
02:39:56,600 --> 02:39:59,560
Speaker 8: the firms go under. Yeah, and they're all very mad

3130
02:39:59,600 --> 02:39:59,880
Speaker 8: about this.

3131
02:40:00,720 --> 02:40:06,320
Speaker 2: We especially airlines. Lots of airlines die out. That's why

3132
02:40:06,520 --> 02:40:09,000
Speaker 2: mad men, you know, like you look at all the

3133
02:40:09,080 --> 02:40:13,760
Speaker 2: dead airlines and madmen, like it's not an unheard of thing.

3134
02:40:13,840 --> 02:40:15,040
Speaker 2: It's a difficult business.

3135
02:40:15,560 --> 02:40:16,400
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.

3136
02:40:16,440 --> 02:40:18,000
Speaker 8: And it's like and that's like why you've gotten the

3137
02:40:18,040 --> 02:40:20,240
Speaker 8: degree of monopoly you already have in the airline industries,

3138
02:40:20,280 --> 02:40:22,200
Speaker 8: that these companies sort of bought up the carcasses and

3139
02:40:22,320 --> 02:40:24,920
Speaker 8: like you know, did all of these very monopolistic mergers.

3140
02:40:24,959 --> 02:40:26,840
Speaker 8: So there now you just have this thing where like, yeah,

3141
02:40:26,879 --> 02:40:31,039
Speaker 8: flying absolutely sucks because it's all just these like oh god,

3142
02:40:31,080 --> 02:40:33,320
Speaker 8: there's some economics term for it. That I'm forgetting right now.

3143
02:40:33,320 --> 02:40:34,920
Speaker 8: But it's it's all of these types of monopolies that

3144
02:40:34,959 --> 02:40:37,039
Speaker 8: have like divided up the country into their rome basically

3145
02:40:37,120 --> 02:40:40,760
Speaker 8: personal fiefdoms, and yeah, that sucks, and it's why, it's

3146
02:40:40,760 --> 02:40:45,320
Speaker 8: why being on an airplane sucks. Shit and opposing monopolies

3147
02:40:45,440 --> 02:40:48,760
Speaker 8: is not the reason that we're here. It's the main

3148
02:40:48,840 --> 02:40:51,480
Speaker 8: reason that we are here right now with Spear Airlines

3149
02:40:51,520 --> 02:40:53,760
Speaker 8: dead is that the President of the United States unilaterally

3150
02:40:53,840 --> 02:40:55,800
Speaker 8: decided he was going to fight a war against Iran.

3151
02:40:56,080 --> 02:40:56,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3152
02:40:56,400 --> 02:41:00,560
Speaker 8: I guess technically bilaterally because God BB decided to Israelis,

3153
02:41:00,640 --> 02:41:02,680
Speaker 8: but like you know, the President United like the the

3154
02:41:02,920 --> 02:41:05,320
Speaker 8: the US is mad dictator, decided to fight a war.

3155
02:41:05,400 --> 02:41:08,560
Speaker 8: And that's why this airline is gone. Yeah, that's that's

3156
02:41:08,760 --> 02:41:11,119
Speaker 8: that's the main thing. That's why it's gone. Like now

3157
02:41:11,320 --> 02:41:11,920
Speaker 8: in this way.

3158
02:41:12,440 --> 02:41:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody needs to photoshop like Spirit Airlines in heaven

3159
02:41:16,680 --> 02:41:19,119
Speaker 2: with uh the ayatola hameni uh.

3160
02:41:19,840 --> 02:41:20,200
Speaker 5: Just like.

3161
02:41:21,680 --> 02:41:25,840
Speaker 2: Holding hands together. Two beautiful souls lost too.

3162
02:41:26,200 --> 02:41:28,640
Speaker 8: He's getting on one final final flight.

3163
02:41:29,000 --> 02:41:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, see later, space Cowboy.

3164
02:41:34,200 --> 02:41:34,400
Speaker 4: God.

3165
02:41:35,240 --> 02:41:38,800
Speaker 8: In other wonderful news, we're pivoting from spirits to ghosts,

3166
02:41:39,680 --> 02:41:43,440
Speaker 8: and we are pivoting to a very a very interesting

3167
02:41:43,480 --> 02:41:48,360
Speaker 8: piece of reporting from CNN, who has obtained polling data

3168
02:41:48,959 --> 02:41:54,920
Speaker 8: that suggests that the President's new Ballroom, which has expanded

3169
02:41:54,959 --> 02:41:58,480
Speaker 8: significant political capital from an assassination attempt to attempt to

3170
02:41:58,520 --> 02:42:02,720
Speaker 8: get built, is in terms of quote, Americans who support

3171
02:42:02,920 --> 02:42:06,840
Speaker 8: or believe in new White House Ballroom is pulling at

3172
02:42:06,920 --> 02:42:09,840
Speaker 8: twenty eight percent, which is lower than the percentage of

3173
02:42:09,879 --> 02:42:13,039
Speaker 8: Americans who believe in ghosts and one percent lower than

3174
02:42:13,080 --> 02:42:15,199
Speaker 8: the percentage of Americans who believe in telepathy.

3175
02:42:15,320 --> 02:42:18,800
Speaker 5: Americans love believing in ghosts, h we.

3176
02:42:18,920 --> 02:42:22,640
Speaker 4: Do, we do love to believe in ghosts. Well, ghosts

3177
02:42:22,640 --> 02:42:23,560
Speaker 4: thing at thirty nine percent.

3178
02:42:23,600 --> 02:42:25,760
Speaker 5: I was I was expecting to let usually it's higher

3179
02:42:25,800 --> 02:42:26,040
Speaker 5: than that.

3180
02:42:26,280 --> 02:42:30,000
Speaker 8: I I it could also be support ghosts, right like.

3181
02:42:32,000 --> 02:42:34,840
Speaker 3: Unted, Yeah, I'm gonna take believe in the ballroom, like

3182
02:42:34,920 --> 02:42:37,600
Speaker 3: do they believe it exists? Like like this is an odd.

3183
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:41,879
Speaker 2: I have a lot of questions of the methodology.

3184
02:42:42,040 --> 02:42:43,320
Speaker 4: I'm a White House denia.

3185
02:42:44,040 --> 02:42:46,120
Speaker 5: Part of the frustration here is, I think because this

3186
02:42:46,360 --> 02:42:49,560
Speaker 5: this presentation is coming from noted enemy of the podcast

3187
02:42:49,840 --> 02:42:55,040
Speaker 5: Harry Eaton CNN's discount version of Steve Kornacki, who is

3188
02:42:55,160 --> 02:43:00,320
Speaker 5: a is a noted noted Calshi supporter. Yeah, I do

3189
02:43:00,480 --> 02:43:03,119
Speaker 5: not like this man, and I think he manipulates data

3190
02:43:03,280 --> 02:43:06,920
Speaker 5: for entertainment. Yeah, no, he is, He's not good.

3191
02:43:07,440 --> 02:43:09,600
Speaker 8: It is also also worth noting so that like the

3192
02:43:09,640 --> 02:43:13,000
Speaker 8: opposition to the ballroom, Oh he is also like yeah,

3193
02:43:13,320 --> 02:43:16,119
Speaker 8: it's about twenty eight percent, like everyone hates it. It's

3194
02:43:16,480 --> 02:43:19,600
Speaker 8: it's somehow it's lower than his approval reading, which the

3195
02:43:19,680 --> 02:43:23,800
Speaker 8: stars reading is like getting lower through the thirties and

3196
02:43:23,920 --> 02:43:26,960
Speaker 8: threatening to go below thirty percent, and somehow the ballroom

3197
02:43:27,000 --> 02:43:30,080
Speaker 8: beating is worse, which just astonishing.

3198
02:43:31,720 --> 02:43:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do want to talk to the people who

3199
02:43:33,600 --> 02:43:36,959
Speaker 2: still like him, but the ballroom.

3200
02:43:36,959 --> 02:43:40,240
Speaker 5: They really the people that support the people that support

3201
02:43:40,320 --> 02:43:42,360
Speaker 5: the war on Iran, but draw the line at the

3202
02:43:42,400 --> 02:43:45,320
Speaker 5: ballroom is a really disturbing character today.

3203
02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:48,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's like, well, no, it's it's it's the converted

3204
02:43:48,680 --> 02:43:49,640
Speaker 8: never Trump Republican.

3205
02:43:50,440 --> 02:43:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe.

3206
02:43:52,879 --> 02:43:57,080
Speaker 5: If I agree with that, but yeah, speaking of that ballroom,

3207
02:43:58,160 --> 02:44:03,240
Speaker 5: the Senate GOP has released a seventy two billion reconciliation

3208
02:44:03,440 --> 02:44:07,800
Speaker 5: package to fund ice and border patrol after their funding

3209
02:44:08,280 --> 02:44:12,279
Speaker 5: was removed from the long fought after DHS funding package,

3210
02:44:12,320 --> 02:44:14,480
Speaker 5: which finally passed last week.

3211
02:44:14,959 --> 02:44:15,160
Speaker 3: Yay.

3212
02:44:15,800 --> 02:44:19,320
Speaker 5: The Judiciary Committee and the Homeland Security Committee each released

3213
02:44:19,440 --> 02:44:22,240
Speaker 5: proposed bills, and this package can pass the sent out

3214
02:44:22,280 --> 02:44:25,879
Speaker 5: with a simple majority rather than sixty votes. There's also

3215
02:44:26,000 --> 02:44:29,400
Speaker 5: a small provision here for the ballroom, which I'll get

3216
02:44:29,440 --> 02:44:32,840
Speaker 5: to you. But let's start with talking about the other funding.

3217
02:44:33,959 --> 02:44:38,160
Speaker 5: These bills appropriate over twenty two point five billion dollars

3218
02:44:38,280 --> 02:44:42,200
Speaker 5: for US Customs and Border Protection until September thirtieth, twenty

3219
02:44:42,320 --> 02:44:46,520
Speaker 5: twenty nine, for hiring, paying, training, equipping agents, and necessary

3220
02:44:46,520 --> 02:44:50,520
Speaker 5: support staff, plus other necessary expenses for mission support, operations

3221
02:44:50,600 --> 02:44:54,720
Speaker 5: and maintenance. I'll draw atension to an extra three point

3222
02:44:54,879 --> 02:45:00,040
Speaker 5: five billion allotted for quote, procurement and integration of a

3223
02:45:00,120 --> 02:45:06,160
Speaker 5: new non intrusive inspection equipment unquote, which they specify as

3224
02:45:06,440 --> 02:45:10,640
Speaker 5: AI tools to combat drug smuggling at ports of entry.

3225
02:45:11,320 --> 02:45:13,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've been on that one for a while.

3226
02:45:13,200 --> 02:45:18,320
Speaker 3: I'm guessing it will be their continued facial recognition or

3227
02:45:18,440 --> 02:45:20,199
Speaker 3: pattern recognition stuff.

3228
02:45:20,520 --> 02:45:27,200
Speaker 5: That's listed also in addition to this AI drug detection

3229
02:45:27,560 --> 02:45:31,320
Speaker 5: inspection tool. Because they also have this three point five

3230
02:45:31,320 --> 02:45:35,240
Speaker 5: billion going towards quote, upgrades and procurement of border surveillance

3231
02:45:35,280 --> 02:45:39,280
Speaker 5: technologies and the deployment of technology relating to the biometric

3232
02:45:39,520 --> 02:45:40,760
Speaker 5: entry and exit system.

3233
02:45:41,160 --> 02:45:41,440
Speaker 4: Quote.

3234
02:45:42,280 --> 02:45:47,000
Speaker 5: Thirty eight billion dollars is appropriated for ICE for quote hiring, paying, training,

3235
02:45:47,120 --> 02:45:50,879
Speaker 5: and equipping personnel including officers, agents, investigators, attorneys, and support

3236
02:45:50,920 --> 02:45:54,959
Speaker 5: staff to carry out immigration enforcement activities. Quote. This funding

3237
02:45:54,959 --> 02:45:59,040
Speaker 5: also covers transportation costs, information technology, facility and fleet maintenance

3238
02:45:59,360 --> 02:46:04,160
Speaker 5: and expand in coordination with local and state officials. Both

3239
02:46:04,200 --> 02:46:07,400
Speaker 5: the DHS and the DOJ each get a few extra

3240
02:46:07,520 --> 02:46:12,080
Speaker 5: billion for various uses in these bills, but at the

3241
02:46:12,240 --> 02:46:16,080
Speaker 5: end of the Judiciary bill, it allocates one billion dollars

3242
02:46:16,120 --> 02:46:19,480
Speaker 5: of tax pair dollars for security enhancements to the new

3243
02:46:19,640 --> 02:46:23,280
Speaker 5: White House Ballroom. This money would go to Secret Service

3244
02:46:23,480 --> 02:46:27,160
Speaker 5: quote for the purposes of security adjustments and upgrades, including

3245
02:46:27,200 --> 02:46:30,000
Speaker 5: within the perimeter fence of the White House compound, including

3246
02:46:30,120 --> 02:46:35,240
Speaker 5: above ground and below ground security features unquote. Trump has

3247
02:46:35,520 --> 02:46:38,880
Speaker 5: touted the ballroom as being entirely funded by private donors,

3248
02:46:39,080 --> 02:46:42,560
Speaker 5: originally costing two hundred million but ballooning to four hundred

3249
02:46:42,640 --> 02:46:46,600
Speaker 5: million this year, which means that these security funds are

3250
02:46:46,760 --> 02:46:52,080
Speaker 5: greater than the total previously estimated cost of construction. What

3251
02:46:52,280 --> 02:46:56,600
Speaker 5: one billion dollars versus four hundred million dollars. Now, these

3252
02:46:56,640 --> 02:47:00,720
Speaker 5: security funds do have a stated limitation quote. None of

3253
02:47:00,760 --> 02:47:03,240
Speaker 5: the funds made available under this section may be used

3254
02:47:03,320 --> 02:47:07,760
Speaker 5: for non security elements of the East Wing modernization project,

3255
02:47:08,520 --> 02:47:11,800
Speaker 5: which is what they call the ballroom. But what qualifies

3256
02:47:11,879 --> 02:47:16,760
Speaker 5: as security or non security elements is not clear. Is

3257
02:47:16,800 --> 02:47:22,320
Speaker 5: bulletproof glass or reinforced walls a security element? Does paying

3258
02:47:22,440 --> 02:47:26,039
Speaker 5: contractors to make adjustments or enhancements to the building count

3259
02:47:26,160 --> 02:47:28,960
Speaker 5: as security elements? We don't know, because this is this

3260
02:47:29,080 --> 02:47:31,120
Speaker 5: is a lot of money. And this again comes after

3261
02:47:31,520 --> 02:47:35,960
Speaker 5: the Trump administration's deployment of the attempted assassination at the

3262
02:47:36,000 --> 02:47:40,199
Speaker 5: White House dinner to further the development of the ballroom,

3263
02:47:40,440 --> 02:47:44,760
Speaker 5: and now this bill includes extra funding for it in

3264
02:47:44,840 --> 02:47:49,400
Speaker 5: the wake of that, and it's unclear how exactly that

3265
02:47:49,720 --> 02:47:51,840
Speaker 5: money would be used if passed it.

3266
02:47:51,959 --> 02:47:54,800
Speaker 8: Garrison, my dear friend, you are thinking way too small

3267
02:47:54,920 --> 02:47:57,920
Speaker 8: in terms of what the president just tried to use.

3268
02:47:58,200 --> 02:48:01,400
Speaker 8: Just try to use Defense Production Act buy an airline

3269
02:48:02,040 --> 02:48:04,920
Speaker 8: so he could like run it right, Like they're gonna

3270
02:48:04,920 --> 02:48:06,240
Speaker 8: be like, yeah, I had to I had to like

3271
02:48:06,360 --> 02:48:09,200
Speaker 8: put this this gold lace on, Like this column is

3272
02:48:09,280 --> 02:48:10,400
Speaker 8: actually bullet reflecting.

3273
02:48:10,480 --> 02:48:14,680
Speaker 5: It's gonna be like that kind of shit. That's just

3274
02:48:14,760 --> 02:48:14,920
Speaker 5: like the.

3275
02:48:14,959 --> 02:48:17,359
Speaker 8: Way this entire administration has operated.

3276
02:48:19,160 --> 02:48:22,320
Speaker 5: A lot of the construction could have security elements.

3277
02:48:22,640 --> 02:48:26,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, this is already something that's been discussed at

3278
02:48:26,240 --> 02:48:29,680
Speaker 3: length in the National Trust for Historical Preservation lawsuit against

3279
02:48:30,080 --> 02:48:35,120
Speaker 3: the construction right. And essentially, the Trump administration has argued

3280
02:48:35,160 --> 02:48:41,280
Speaker 3: that the project in and of itself is an indivisible thing. That,

3281
02:48:41,440 --> 02:48:44,000
Speaker 3: let the project is a security project, and you can't

3282
02:48:44,160 --> 02:48:47,280
Speaker 3: break out the security from the ball have a yes,

3283
02:48:47,879 --> 02:48:50,520
Speaker 3: And the judge has so found not agreed to that.

3284
02:48:50,680 --> 02:48:50,800
Speaker 4: Right.

3285
02:48:50,920 --> 02:48:53,600
Speaker 3: But the Trump administration has argued that like the below

3286
02:48:53,720 --> 02:49:00,320
Speaker 3: ground hospital room, security infrastructure, bomb shelter, et cetera, and

3287
02:49:00,600 --> 02:49:04,880
Speaker 3: the above ground party having room are like all one

3288
02:49:05,000 --> 02:49:07,240
Speaker 3: big security project.

3289
02:49:07,360 --> 02:49:08,840
Speaker 5: It should be one secured zone.

3290
02:49:08,920 --> 02:49:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and that like you cannot be because the

3291
02:49:12,680 --> 02:49:14,920
Speaker 3: in this case, the discussion is about the injunction, right,

3292
02:49:14,959 --> 02:49:17,760
Speaker 3: which paused construction. Yeah, so they're saying we can't do

3293
02:49:17,920 --> 02:49:21,800
Speaker 3: the security construction only, we have to do all the

3294
02:49:21,920 --> 02:49:24,680
Speaker 3: construction because it's a contiguous whole.

3295
02:49:25,280 --> 02:49:29,160
Speaker 4: So like that seems like it's relevant to this. Yeah.

3296
02:49:29,200 --> 02:49:32,199
Speaker 5: We will keep keep keep checking in on these reconciliation

3297
02:49:32,320 --> 02:49:37,160
Speaker 5: bills as they as they move through Congress. But first

3298
02:49:37,879 --> 02:49:40,440
Speaker 5: we will go on this ad break and then discuss

3299
02:49:40,720 --> 02:49:43,199
Speaker 5: Ran and some of the Tuesday elections.

3300
02:49:55,120 --> 02:49:58,480
Speaker 3: We are back back in the Strait of hor Moves,

3301
02:49:58,640 --> 02:50:01,200
Speaker 3: a place where we spend a lot of time these

3302
02:50:01,280 --> 02:50:01,959
Speaker 3: last few weeks.

3303
02:50:02,080 --> 02:50:02,240
Speaker 4: Yep.

3304
02:50:03,000 --> 02:50:05,760
Speaker 3: So's I guess just trying to take this in kind

3305
02:50:05,760 --> 02:50:08,240
Speaker 3: of chronological order, because it's probably the.

3306
02:50:08,240 --> 02:50:09,120
Speaker 4: Best way to explain it.

3307
02:50:09,520 --> 02:50:13,200
Speaker 3: Iran has launched cruise, missiles and drones at United States

3308
02:50:13,240 --> 02:50:16,000
Speaker 3: ships in the Strait of horn Moves. For a while there,

3309
02:50:16,160 --> 02:50:19,400
Speaker 3: Iranian news sources were claiming that they had it hit

3310
02:50:20,160 --> 02:50:22,640
Speaker 3: or turned around US vessels.

3311
02:50:23,200 --> 02:50:24,520
Speaker 4: This does not appear to be true.

3312
02:50:24,640 --> 02:50:28,200
Speaker 3: Saint Con certainly denied it, although some news networks did

3313
02:50:28,320 --> 02:50:32,279
Speaker 3: run with this, apparently based on what the Iranian government aligned.

3314
02:50:32,040 --> 02:50:32,920
Speaker 4: Media were claiming.

3315
02:50:33,520 --> 02:50:36,800
Speaker 3: It seems that two United States the stories did transit

3316
02:50:36,840 --> 02:50:40,000
Speaker 3: the straight and they did receive various types of incoming

3317
02:50:40,080 --> 02:50:44,480
Speaker 3: fire from small boats, from missiles, and from drones. Following that,

3318
02:50:44,680 --> 02:50:48,280
Speaker 3: a mask vessel sailed through the strait. The Alliance Fairfax

3319
02:50:48,440 --> 02:50:51,360
Speaker 3: is United States flagged vessel, and it received assistance from

3320
02:50:51,400 --> 02:50:56,080
Speaker 3: the US military, and then the motor Tanka Anthem of

3321
02:50:56,240 --> 02:51:00,879
Speaker 3: Crowley Maritime also sailed through. Trump has called this assistance

3322
02:51:01,200 --> 02:51:06,160
Speaker 3: quote Project Freedom truthing for the good of Iran, the

3323
02:51:06,240 --> 02:51:08,800
Speaker 3: Middle East, and the United States. We have told these

3324
02:51:08,840 --> 02:51:11,880
Speaker 3: countries that we will guide their ships safely out of

3325
02:51:11,959 --> 02:51:15,199
Speaker 3: these restricted waterways so that they can freely and ably

3326
02:51:15,240 --> 02:51:18,240
Speaker 3: get on with their business. Again, these are ships from

3327
02:51:18,280 --> 02:51:20,520
Speaker 3: areas of the world that are not in any way

3328
02:51:20,600 --> 02:51:23,240
Speaker 3: involved with that which is currently taking place in the

3329
02:51:23,240 --> 02:51:26,360
Speaker 3: Middle East. I have told my representative to inform them

3330
02:51:26,600 --> 02:51:29,039
Speaker 3: that we will use best effort to get their ships

3331
02:51:29,080 --> 02:51:33,000
Speaker 3: and crews safely out straight. Exactly what this meant was

3332
02:51:33,080 --> 02:51:37,040
Speaker 3: unclear when the President first truthed it, but what it

3333
02:51:37,240 --> 02:51:40,199
Speaker 3: seems what I've seen reported now is that the United

3334
02:51:40,240 --> 02:51:44,400
Speaker 3: States a provides them on safe routes and then provided

3335
02:51:44,760 --> 02:51:47,680
Speaker 3: in at least two cases security detachment to go on

3336
02:51:47,840 --> 02:51:52,280
Speaker 3: board the ships. Despite this, the UK MTO still has

3337
02:51:52,360 --> 02:51:55,359
Speaker 3: the reports of attacks, and on Tuesday night it reported

3338
02:51:55,480 --> 02:51:58,680
Speaker 3: that one vessel had been hit, and so it does

3339
02:51:58,760 --> 02:52:02,840
Speaker 3: not seem that there's been like a universal ability to

3340
02:52:03,200 --> 02:52:05,720
Speaker 3: allow vessels to move through the Strait. The United States

3341
02:52:05,760 --> 02:52:08,560
Speaker 3: also claims to have sunk seven small Iranian vessels in

3342
02:52:08,600 --> 02:52:12,480
Speaker 3: the strate Let's hear from Marca Rubio where he's explaining

3343
02:52:12,480 --> 02:52:15,240
Speaker 3: a little bit about why the US is doing.

3344
02:52:15,080 --> 02:52:17,200
Speaker 4: This, and we're going to do it as a favor

3345
02:52:17,280 --> 02:52:17,720
Speaker 4: to the world.

3346
02:52:17,840 --> 02:52:20,920
Speaker 12: Understand this, This is a favor to the world because

3347
02:52:20,959 --> 02:52:23,080
Speaker 12: it's their ships that are stranded, it's their fuel supplies

3348
02:52:23,080 --> 02:52:25,320
Speaker 12: that are stranded. By the way, it's their humanitarian there's

3349
02:52:25,400 --> 02:52:28,240
Speaker 12: humanitarian aid destined for different countries in the world that

3350
02:52:28,280 --> 02:52:32,080
Speaker 12: stranded in the Persian Gulf right now. It's the fertilizer

3351
02:52:32,320 --> 02:52:34,359
Speaker 12: that they need for their food and crops that stranded

3352
02:52:34,400 --> 02:52:35,680
Speaker 12: in the person not our fertilizer.

3353
02:52:35,720 --> 02:52:36,440
Speaker 4: Their fertilizer.

3354
02:52:36,720 --> 02:52:38,600
Speaker 12: So we want to be helpful, and that's why the

3355
02:52:38,640 --> 02:52:40,959
Speaker 12: presidents stepped forward because we're the only ones that can. Frankly,

3356
02:52:40,959 --> 02:52:41,879
Speaker 12: we're the only ones that can.

3357
02:52:43,200 --> 02:52:45,640
Speaker 3: So the United States there wanting to be helpful help

3358
02:52:45,680 --> 02:52:49,920
Speaker 3: the world with their humanitarian aid. On Tuesday, the President

3359
02:52:50,040 --> 02:52:53,920
Speaker 3: then truth based on the request of Pakistan and other countries.

3360
02:52:53,920 --> 02:52:56,840
Speaker 3: It's a tremendous military success that we have had during

3361
02:52:56,920 --> 02:52:59,880
Speaker 3: the campaign against the country of the run, and additionally

3362
02:53:00,200 --> 02:53:02,600
Speaker 3: the fact that great progress has been made toward a

3363
02:53:02,640 --> 02:53:05,720
Speaker 3: complete and final agreement with representatives of Iran. We have

3364
02:53:05,840 --> 02:53:08,480
Speaker 3: mutually agreed that while the blockade will remain in place

3365
02:53:08,720 --> 02:53:11,760
Speaker 3: and will remain in full force and effect Project Freedom.

3366
02:53:12,120 --> 02:53:14,720
Speaker 3: The movement of ships with straightforward moves will be paused

3367
02:53:14,720 --> 02:53:17,240
Speaker 3: for a short period of time to see whether or

3368
02:53:17,320 --> 02:53:20,680
Speaker 3: not the agreement can be finalized and signed. So that

3369
02:53:20,879 --> 02:53:24,200
Speaker 3: was the twenty four hour duration of Project Freedom Rest

3370
02:53:24,280 --> 02:53:27,880
Speaker 3: in Peace. Then this morning, the President truth to quote,

3371
02:53:28,040 --> 02:53:30,760
Speaker 3: assuming Iran agrees to give what has been agreed to,

3372
02:53:31,160 --> 02:53:34,720
Speaker 3: which is perhaps a big assumption, the already legendary epic

3373
02:53:34,840 --> 02:53:37,320
Speaker 3: fury will be at an end. If they don't agree,

3374
02:53:37,640 --> 02:53:40,560
Speaker 3: the bombing starts, and it will be, sadly, at a

3375
02:53:40,680 --> 02:53:43,760
Speaker 3: much higher level and intensity than it was before.

3376
02:53:43,560 --> 02:53:44,760
Speaker 4: President Jerald J. Trump.

3377
02:53:45,760 --> 02:53:49,200
Speaker 3: The parties, according to Axios, not an outlet known for

3378
02:53:49,240 --> 02:53:52,920
Speaker 3: its accurate reporting, appear to be closing in on a

3379
02:53:53,000 --> 02:53:57,120
Speaker 3: fourteen point deal. The reporting suggests that Iran has committed

3380
02:53:57,120 --> 02:54:03,040
Speaker 3: to a moratorium of fifteen to twenty years on uranium enrichment.

3381
02:54:03,400 --> 02:54:07,560
Speaker 3: The United States would then lift sanctions and release frozen

3382
02:54:07,560 --> 02:54:11,760
Speaker 3: Iranian funds, which is a massive concession, and both sides

3383
02:54:11,760 --> 02:54:15,520
Speaker 3: would lift restrictions on passage through the straight andform moves. However,

3384
02:54:16,400 --> 02:54:19,960
Speaker 3: hours after this was reported, a United States aircraft shut

3385
02:54:20,000 --> 02:54:23,080
Speaker 3: the rudder out of an Iranian motor tanker called the Hasna.

3386
02:54:23,800 --> 02:54:26,080
Speaker 3: They say they warned the ship which was headed towards

3387
02:54:26,120 --> 02:54:29,320
Speaker 3: Iranian ports. It was empty at the time it was

3388
02:54:29,360 --> 02:54:33,000
Speaker 3: heading towards Iranian ports. Right then we saw reporting from

3389
02:54:33,000 --> 02:54:36,840
Speaker 3: algia's zero reporter Ali Hashem that instructions have been sent

3390
02:54:36,920 --> 02:54:40,879
Speaker 3: to boats crossing the street. These instructions include quote priority

3391
02:54:40,920 --> 02:54:44,720
Speaker 3: of payment in Iran's national currency, issuance of guarantees in

3392
02:54:44,800 --> 02:54:48,840
Speaker 3: Iranian banks. Three of a country caused damage to Iran

3393
02:54:48,920 --> 02:54:51,480
Speaker 3: in the recent war, it must first pay the damages

3394
02:54:51,560 --> 02:54:55,360
Speaker 3: before obtaining a passage permit. Countries that have sanctioned Iran

3395
02:54:55,480 --> 02:54:58,440
Speaker 3: or blocked Around's money and not allowed passage for the

3396
02:54:58,560 --> 02:55:01,400
Speaker 3: correct title Persian gol must have written in all documents.

3397
02:55:02,240 --> 02:55:04,920
Speaker 3: Five non compliance with the above result and seizure and

3398
02:55:05,040 --> 02:55:06,959
Speaker 3: a fine of twenty percent of the cargo value.

3399
02:55:07,920 --> 02:55:10,080
Speaker 4: So it is chaos in.

3400
02:55:10,520 --> 02:55:12,800
Speaker 3: The strait of horror moves right like we have at

3401
02:55:12,840 --> 02:55:16,320
Speaker 3: once Trump saying the us WL eschortship through and then

3402
02:55:16,400 --> 02:55:20,400
Speaker 3: pausing the escorting of ship through, and then the Iranians

3403
02:55:20,440 --> 02:55:23,360
Speaker 3: shooting at a commercial ship, and then the United States

3404
02:55:23,400 --> 02:55:25,920
Speaker 3: shooting at an Iranian ship. The Iranians asking for money

3405
02:55:26,000 --> 02:55:30,240
Speaker 3: this time not in cryptocurrency and the United States saying

3406
02:55:30,560 --> 02:55:33,360
Speaker 3: that we are about to reach a peace agreement. This

3407
02:55:33,560 --> 02:55:37,560
Speaker 3: of course provides a lot of certainty, which markets love,

3408
02:55:37,879 --> 02:55:39,920
Speaker 3: and I'm sure this will result in the gas price

3409
02:55:40,040 --> 02:55:44,800
Speaker 3: not being nearly seven dollars a gallon here pretty soon.

3410
02:55:45,600 --> 02:55:49,800
Speaker 3: I also want to briefly talk about suicide dolphins. In

3411
02:55:49,920 --> 02:55:55,120
Speaker 3: a press conference, Iranian suicide dolphins were raised.

3412
02:55:55,680 --> 02:55:57,240
Speaker 4: Here's the question being asked.

3413
02:55:57,400 --> 02:56:01,359
Speaker 7: Can you kind of clarify these reports of kamakazi dolphins

3414
02:56:01,360 --> 02:56:02,160
Speaker 7: that we've heard about.

3415
02:56:03,080 --> 02:56:06,080
Speaker 4: I haven't heard the kamakazi dolphins thing. It's like sharks

3416
02:56:06,120 --> 02:56:11,640
Speaker 4: with laser beams. And then if you could play heg

3417
02:56:11,720 --> 02:56:13,440
Speaker 4: sass response as well, and.

3418
02:56:13,480 --> 02:56:16,240
Speaker 8: I can't confirm or deny whether we have kamakazi dolphins,

3419
02:56:16,959 --> 02:56:18,119
Speaker 8: but I can confirm they don't.

3420
02:56:18,959 --> 02:56:22,320
Speaker 5: Ultimately, well, it's good, we're ultimate on that.

3421
02:56:22,560 --> 02:56:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so heccess pretty definity of Ryan having kamakazi dolphins.

3422
02:56:26,760 --> 02:56:28,920
Speaker 3: It did seem kind of where the people reporting on

3423
02:56:28,959 --> 02:56:31,440
Speaker 3: this one ware the United States has had a marine mammal.

3424
02:56:32,600 --> 02:56:35,240
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, like you can see them in San Diego. Yeah,

3425
02:56:35,600 --> 02:56:38,000
Speaker 3: they are not, to my knowledge, like used in a

3426
02:56:38,080 --> 02:56:40,680
Speaker 3: kamikazi capacity, mainly.

3427
02:56:40,520 --> 02:56:42,320
Speaker 4: Because it's just chea but to do that with drones.

3428
02:56:42,400 --> 02:56:45,360
Speaker 8: The US military did briefly experiment with bats, which turned

3429
02:56:45,400 --> 02:56:47,520
Speaker 8: out to be a terrible idea because the bats which

3430
02:56:47,800 --> 02:56:51,080
Speaker 8: just fly back to you the boomerang man, this this,

3431
02:56:51,240 --> 02:56:53,080
Speaker 8: this nearly wiped out a huge portion of you as

3432
02:56:53,080 --> 02:56:55,000
Speaker 8: such a command in that. Yeah, great stuff.

3433
02:56:55,560 --> 02:56:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah it doesn't.

3434
02:56:56,959 --> 02:56:59,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm pretty sure that Ryan doesn't have suicide

3435
02:56:59,120 --> 02:57:03,840
Speaker 3: dolphins either. People are asking that again, it is just.

3436
02:57:04,040 --> 02:57:06,520
Speaker 5: Cheaper, unliving dolphins, Dolph.

3437
02:57:06,760 --> 02:57:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, one way. Dolphins how we refer to them

3438
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:11,959
Speaker 3: if they were munitions, But it just doesn't.

3439
02:57:12,560 --> 02:57:15,120
Speaker 8: Isn't a suicide dolphin if you're pressing the buttons though, Like,

3440
02:57:15,160 --> 02:57:16,520
Speaker 8: are you just blowing up a dolphin?

3441
02:57:17,120 --> 02:57:18,880
Speaker 4: No, it's not. It's a murdered dolphin.

3442
02:57:19,120 --> 02:57:21,119
Speaker 5: It's really it's really unfair to the dolphins.

3443
02:57:21,120 --> 02:57:24,200
Speaker 4: It's not a dolphin. It hasn't made that commitment. It's

3444
02:57:24,320 --> 02:57:25,000
Speaker 4: just a dolphin.

3445
02:57:25,160 --> 02:57:26,600
Speaker 2: It's a homicide dolphin.

3446
02:57:27,320 --> 02:57:29,760
Speaker 5: I can't believe that those reporters would mess up such

3447
02:57:29,800 --> 02:57:30,880
Speaker 5: a basic fact.

3448
02:57:31,879 --> 02:57:34,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, yeah. The people on the suicide dolphin

3449
02:57:34,720 --> 02:57:37,560
Speaker 3: really need to get back to journalism. One O one shut,

3450
02:57:39,000 --> 02:57:42,200
Speaker 3: all right, we're talking about the Ocean. Marco Rubio has

3451
02:57:42,280 --> 02:57:45,440
Speaker 3: visited South coom and Post for a photo with General

3452
02:57:45,480 --> 02:57:48,080
Speaker 3: Francis Eldonovan in front of what is very obviously a

3453
02:57:48,160 --> 02:57:49,240
Speaker 3: large map of Cuba.

3454
02:57:49,400 --> 02:57:51,200
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, I think what you meant to say is

3455
02:57:51,280 --> 02:57:56,320
Speaker 5: d J Mark Rubio. But continue, Yeah, I said. The

3456
02:57:57,080 --> 02:58:01,520
Speaker 5: map is titled Cuba Reference Map. That's not good.

3457
02:58:01,959 --> 02:58:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, in terms of like a subtle signaling, that's not good.

3458
02:58:05,760 --> 02:58:09,040
Speaker 3: Ribo also claimed to a press conference the Operation Epic

3459
02:58:09,120 --> 02:58:09,840
Speaker 3: Fury was over.

3460
02:58:10,200 --> 02:58:14,199
Speaker 12: The Operation Epic Fury is concluded. We achieve the objectives

3461
02:58:14,240 --> 02:58:17,240
Speaker 12: of that operation. I'm not going to you know, we're

3462
02:58:17,320 --> 02:58:20,880
Speaker 12: not cheering for an additional situation to occur. We would

3463
02:58:20,920 --> 02:58:23,480
Speaker 12: prefer the path of peace. What the President would prefer

3464
02:58:23,920 --> 02:58:25,720
Speaker 12: is a deal. He would prefer to sit down, work

3465
02:58:25,760 --> 02:58:28,600
Speaker 12: out a memorandum of understanding for future negotiations that touches

3466
02:58:28,640 --> 02:58:30,320
Speaker 12: on all the key topics that have to be addressed.

3467
02:58:30,520 --> 02:58:32,240
Speaker 12: A full opening of the straits so the world can

3468
02:58:32,280 --> 02:58:34,240
Speaker 12: get back to normal. That he and he preferred to

3469
02:58:34,280 --> 02:58:36,360
Speaker 12: that being negotiated through the route that Steve and Jarrett

3470
02:58:36,360 --> 02:58:38,080
Speaker 12: have been working and that all of us have been supporting.

3471
02:58:38,680 --> 02:58:41,040
Speaker 4: That's the route he prefers. That is so far not

3472
02:58:41,160 --> 02:58:42,400
Speaker 4: the route that Iron has chosen.

3473
02:58:42,680 --> 02:58:44,600
Speaker 12: And so the result has been that the United States

3474
02:58:44,640 --> 02:58:46,240
Speaker 12: has to do something about the fact that we're the

3475
02:58:46,320 --> 02:58:48,200
Speaker 12: only nation on earth that can do anything to open

3476
02:58:48,320 --> 02:58:50,920
Speaker 12: up a lane within the Straits of Hormuz to get

3477
02:58:51,000 --> 02:58:53,200
Speaker 12: product and to rescue these people that are trapped in there.

3478
02:58:53,480 --> 02:58:54,760
Speaker 12: And that's what we're undergoing now.

3479
02:58:55,600 --> 02:58:58,080
Speaker 3: So let's see the end of operation of Epic Fury

3480
02:58:58,360 --> 02:59:02,280
Speaker 3: and the beginning of the United Dates doing something to

3481
02:59:02,400 --> 02:59:04,320
Speaker 3: open up a lane in the straight up hoole moods.

3482
02:59:04,760 --> 02:59:07,959
Speaker 2: Great operation unclear.

3483
02:59:09,760 --> 02:59:13,320
Speaker 3: The goals of which are unclear the but apparently the

3484
02:59:13,400 --> 02:59:14,439
Speaker 3: first one succeeded.

3485
02:59:14,959 --> 02:59:18,560
Speaker 4: So congrats to all the Epic Fury people listening.

3486
02:59:19,080 --> 02:59:23,640
Speaker 2: Operation is going great. Things are really good. Uh, and

3487
02:59:23,800 --> 02:59:26,160
Speaker 2: we're we're just minutes away from figuring out what we're

3488
02:59:26,200 --> 02:59:26,720
Speaker 2: doing next.

3489
02:59:27,240 --> 02:59:30,199
Speaker 5: Really thrilled for winby invade Cuba. And it's like aporation

3490
02:59:30,400 --> 02:59:31,560
Speaker 5: bacon awesome sauce.

3491
02:59:31,920 --> 02:59:36,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, right, like epic bacon. Yeah.

3492
02:59:37,560 --> 02:59:40,480
Speaker 5: Before we close, there's a few a few shorter things

3493
02:59:40,520 --> 02:59:44,640
Speaker 5: that we should mention. That's first by turning to as

3494
02:59:45,240 --> 02:59:49,640
Speaker 5: Ramaswami has said, not the best state in the nation, Ohio.

3495
02:59:49,920 --> 02:59:50,400
Speaker 4: Which.

3496
02:59:52,400 --> 02:59:53,840
Speaker 2: Not the best state in the nation.

3497
02:59:54,040 --> 02:59:58,400
Speaker 5: Which for some reason but is the GOP and late

3498
02:59:58,480 --> 03:00:00,680
Speaker 5: for governor. I has some juice. He has the.

3499
03:00:00,959 --> 03:00:04,600
Speaker 2: Connections to Ohio where he's lived for how long Garrison, sure,

3500
03:00:04,720 --> 03:00:06,280
Speaker 2: just long enough to be on the ballot, like a

3501
03:00:06,360 --> 03:00:08,040
Speaker 2: few days we could two.

3502
03:00:08,240 --> 03:00:12,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good state. I can't say it's the

3503
03:00:12,280 --> 03:00:19,760
Speaker 5: best state. Incredible stuff, high praise, high accurate praise. We

3504
03:00:19,840 --> 03:00:23,359
Speaker 5: will be following this because if Vivek loses to the Democrat,

3505
03:00:23,640 --> 03:00:28,119
Speaker 5: that would be an interesting indicator not just of support

3506
03:00:28,240 --> 03:00:31,199
Speaker 5: for Trump and Mega, but also how annoying the vechro

3507
03:00:31,320 --> 03:00:34,480
Speaker 5: Oswami is. But Robert, there's someone that you would like

3508
03:00:34,520 --> 03:00:36,280
Speaker 5: to briefly mention as well.

3509
03:00:37,240 --> 03:00:37,440
Speaker 4: Yes.

3510
03:00:37,800 --> 03:00:42,600
Speaker 2: So, in addition to Vivek doing so well last night,

3511
03:00:42,840 --> 03:00:47,160
Speaker 2: another candidate who did pretty well is Brian Poindexter. Brian

3512
03:00:47,560 --> 03:00:52,040
Speaker 2: is running for Well was running and won the Democratic

3513
03:00:52,120 --> 03:00:56,760
Speaker 2: primary for the Ohio seventh district seat, and he will

3514
03:00:56,800 --> 03:01:01,120
Speaker 2: be running against the Republican incumbent and that district, a

3515
03:01:01,200 --> 03:01:06,120
Speaker 2: guy named Max Miller, who initially ran for and won

3516
03:01:06,240 --> 03:01:09,320
Speaker 2: his way into Congress in twenty twenty two. He was

3517
03:01:09,360 --> 03:01:14,360
Speaker 2: a former aid of President Trump and a bit of

3518
03:01:14,400 --> 03:01:17,040
Speaker 2: a sleeve back. If I'm going to be honest with

3519
03:01:17,160 --> 03:01:19,680
Speaker 2: you if I'm going to talk about this guy. I mean,

3520
03:01:19,959 --> 03:01:23,440
Speaker 2: first off, he's like definitely a NEPO baby. His grandfather

3521
03:01:23,640 --> 03:01:26,720
Speaker 2: was Samuel H. Miller, who was the former coachair emeritus

3522
03:01:26,840 --> 03:01:30,840
Speaker 2: of Forest City Realty Trust, which was acquired in this

3523
03:01:30,959 --> 03:01:33,400
Speaker 2: big real estate deal in twenty eighteen for six point

3524
03:01:33,440 --> 03:01:36,880
Speaker 2: eight billion dollars. So he is like a kid who

3525
03:01:37,000 --> 03:01:40,280
Speaker 2: came from a family with a shitload of real estate

3526
03:01:40,440 --> 03:01:43,360
Speaker 2: money and wound up working in the Trump White House

3527
03:01:43,920 --> 03:01:47,920
Speaker 2: and then got into Congress, where he has a fourteen

3528
03:01:48,000 --> 03:01:52,320
Speaker 2: percent lifetime voting score from the AFLCIO. When he was

3529
03:01:52,440 --> 03:01:55,600
Speaker 2: initially running for Congress, and he was asked because I

3530
03:01:55,720 --> 03:01:57,760
Speaker 2: found a fun interview with him where he was asked

3531
03:01:57,760 --> 03:02:00,720
Speaker 2: to give like his elevator pitch, and I just have

3532
03:02:00,840 --> 03:02:03,400
Speaker 2: to read this was Max Miller's elevator pitch for why

3533
03:02:03,480 --> 03:02:06,640
Speaker 2: he should be in Congress. So with my background in

3534
03:02:06,680 --> 03:02:08,800
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps in the infantry and six years on

3535
03:02:08,840 --> 03:02:11,240
Speaker 2: the reserve side, and the work and working for Senator

3536
03:02:11,320 --> 03:02:13,360
Speaker 2: Rubio and my time in the White House, I've been

3537
03:02:13,400 --> 03:02:16,119
Speaker 2: in these meetings with the presidents and other cabinet secretaries,

3538
03:02:16,280 --> 03:02:18,440
Speaker 2: and the reason why I'm running for office is because

3539
03:02:18,440 --> 03:02:20,280
Speaker 2: of what I saw when I was there. We send

3540
03:02:20,320 --> 03:02:22,680
Speaker 2: people to Washington, d C. To represent our values, and

3541
03:02:22,760 --> 03:02:25,119
Speaker 2: for the most part what we see is regular Americans

3542
03:02:25,160 --> 03:02:27,279
Speaker 2: as they don't they're so out of touch with reality.

3543
03:02:27,360 --> 03:02:29,320
Speaker 2: And for the most part, these individuals only go there

3544
03:02:29,360 --> 03:02:31,280
Speaker 2: to befit their own way of life, and they lose

3545
03:02:31,280 --> 03:02:33,160
Speaker 2: sight of everyone that they were sent there to protect.

3546
03:02:33,360 --> 03:02:35,280
Speaker 2: And I saw that through throughout the four years that

3547
03:02:35,360 --> 03:02:37,879
Speaker 2: I was in Washington, d C. In the White House,

3548
03:02:37,920 --> 03:02:39,120
Speaker 2: and it was extremely eye open.

3549
03:02:39,240 --> 03:02:42,240
Speaker 5: And that's why I'm running to be the Republican representation.

3550
03:02:42,879 --> 03:02:47,040
Speaker 2: You are asked, okay, what's your elevator pitch? Why should

3551
03:02:47,120 --> 03:02:51,720
Speaker 2: you be in office? That's an amazingly incoherent bit of Babbel.

3552
03:02:52,879 --> 03:02:54,560
Speaker 2: So he was asked like, what do you think you're

3553
03:02:54,600 --> 03:02:56,160
Speaker 2: the right guy? And he was like, well, I've been

3554
03:02:56,200 --> 03:02:58,520
Speaker 2: in North Korea, I've been in Iraq bouncing between a

3555
03:02:58,600 --> 03:03:01,240
Speaker 2: La Sad and Arabil. I was in Fghanistan negotiating with

3556
03:03:01,320 --> 03:03:04,200
Speaker 2: foreign delegations on behalf of the president, and I've been

3557
03:03:04,240 --> 03:03:06,360
Speaker 2: in the pressure cooker. And again he was like a

3558
03:03:06,440 --> 03:03:10,320
Speaker 2: Trump ad like he's he's like followed around and meetings

3559
03:03:10,360 --> 03:03:12,519
Speaker 2: where more important people were making decisions.

3560
03:03:12,920 --> 03:03:14,600
Speaker 5: Like that was he was like a coffee boy.

3561
03:03:14,720 --> 03:03:19,439
Speaker 2: Yeah and no cooker again, walking around with the president

3562
03:03:19,600 --> 03:03:22,920
Speaker 2: not making any decisions. He was like a diet coke

3563
03:03:23,040 --> 03:03:29,640
Speaker 2: boy more than anything. Negotiations, yes, negotiation. This interview firing

3564
03:03:29,680 --> 03:03:31,200
Speaker 2: gets them to pin down and like what is the

3565
03:03:31,320 --> 03:03:33,080
Speaker 2: issue you most want to deal with? He's like, my

3566
03:03:33,200 --> 03:03:36,520
Speaker 2: top issue, hands down is inflation in the economy, and

3567
03:03:36,800 --> 03:03:38,959
Speaker 2: like he talks about how like there's seventy or sixty

3568
03:03:39,000 --> 03:03:41,640
Speaker 2: seven billion dollars worth a credit card debt that Americans

3569
03:03:41,680 --> 03:03:44,240
Speaker 2: are and that's his top issue. So what does he

3570
03:03:44,320 --> 03:03:47,520
Speaker 2: do once he's in power? First off, none of the

3571
03:03:47,600 --> 03:03:50,440
Speaker 2: bills that he co sponsored in his first year in

3572
03:03:50,600 --> 03:03:53,039
Speaker 2: Congress had anything to do all I made it through

3573
03:03:53,080 --> 03:03:54,480
Speaker 2: was like the first year and a half, But none

3574
03:03:54,520 --> 03:03:57,920
Speaker 2: of those had anything to do with credit card bills, inflation,

3575
03:03:58,200 --> 03:04:01,040
Speaker 2: or the economy. And the main bill that he is

3576
03:04:01,200 --> 03:04:04,480
Speaker 2: like can attach his name to that he co authored

3577
03:04:05,080 --> 03:04:09,280
Speaker 2: was the Full House Act and Unfair Taxation of Gambling losses.

3578
03:04:09,920 --> 03:04:12,440
Speaker 4: So not a great guy.

3579
03:04:13,320 --> 03:04:15,920
Speaker 2: So anyway, while when I'm while I'm going through this interview,

3580
03:04:16,280 --> 03:04:18,760
Speaker 2: there's a moment here where the interviewer's like, hey, so

3581
03:04:18,920 --> 03:04:22,760
Speaker 2: your girlfriend recently made some allegations against you.

3582
03:04:26,360 --> 03:04:28,040
Speaker 4: Do we see that one colling? So here's what.

3583
03:04:28,160 --> 03:04:31,959
Speaker 2: Here's what, Taylor Poplars, that's the journalist. Here says your

3584
03:04:32,200 --> 03:04:34,600
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend, Stephanie Grisham, who also worked in the Trump

3585
03:04:34,600 --> 03:04:36,560
Speaker 2: White House with you, she has a legen some pretty

3586
03:04:36,560 --> 03:04:38,879
Speaker 2: serious things related to you, that you've slapped her, pushed her,

3587
03:04:38,959 --> 03:04:41,280
Speaker 2: threw a dog toy at her, cheated on her. And

3588
03:04:41,400 --> 03:04:42,360
Speaker 2: I know you've denied all that.

3589
03:04:42,520 --> 03:04:43,760
Speaker 4: You fought a lossuit at one point.

3590
03:04:44,000 --> 03:04:47,360
Speaker 2: Do you still deny all that? His response was, to

3591
03:04:47,480 --> 03:04:50,000
Speaker 2: be clear, we're handling this in litigation. In her motion

3592
03:04:50,080 --> 03:04:52,640
Speaker 2: to dismiss was denied, so the case will be heard now.

3593
03:04:52,680 --> 03:04:55,080
Speaker 2: We're so, we've already won our first battle in that hurdle.

3594
03:04:55,160 --> 03:04:58,080
Speaker 2: And to be clear, she herself has never articulated the allegations.

3595
03:04:58,200 --> 03:05:01,120
Speaker 2: It was all hearsayd by second and third sources. Anyway,

3596
03:05:01,800 --> 03:05:04,920
Speaker 2: that's not the only scandalous guy has on his record.

3597
03:05:05,040 --> 03:05:08,640
Speaker 2: I just briefly looked into him, and I found not

3598
03:05:08,800 --> 03:05:12,280
Speaker 2: only those allegations from this former staffer, that he had

3599
03:05:12,320 --> 03:05:14,760
Speaker 2: become violent in the White House and that the president

3600
03:05:15,000 --> 03:05:17,280
Speaker 2: was aware of that and was like that's kind of

3601
03:05:17,320 --> 03:05:20,160
Speaker 2: fucked up, like the President on Malania where both saw

3602
03:05:20,280 --> 03:05:22,720
Speaker 2: him become violent and we're like, oh god, oh wow,

3603
03:05:22,760 --> 03:05:25,320
Speaker 2: that's kind of fucked up. Yeah, but didn't actually do

3604
03:05:25,440 --> 03:05:28,040
Speaker 2: anything like it's really messed up, Like the allegations here

3605
03:05:28,080 --> 03:05:30,720
Speaker 2: at least really messed up. That's not the only person

3606
03:05:30,800 --> 03:05:33,720
Speaker 2: who has made allegations against him. He in his like

3607
03:05:33,879 --> 03:05:37,280
Speaker 2: messy divorce, his ex wife has alleged that he has

3608
03:05:37,360 --> 03:05:40,400
Speaker 2: gotten violent with her. He has countered and said that

3609
03:05:40,520 --> 03:05:44,800
Speaker 2: she got violent with him, But then his representatives had

3610
03:05:44,840 --> 03:05:48,440
Speaker 2: to admit that their client fabricated testimony in court documents

3611
03:05:48,800 --> 03:05:51,400
Speaker 2: soon order to obtain a protection order against his ex wife.

3612
03:05:51,760 --> 03:05:54,480
Speaker 2: So this dude is a real piece of shit, Like

3613
03:05:54,640 --> 03:05:59,440
Speaker 2: Max Miller bona fide trash person. And currently he's up

3614
03:05:59,480 --> 03:06:02,360
Speaker 2: by about five points in this election in Ohio seven

3615
03:06:02,520 --> 03:06:08,200
Speaker 2: against Poindexter, So it's very unclear how are things gonna

3616
03:06:08,280 --> 03:06:11,199
Speaker 2: actually go. But I I just looking at how sleazy

3617
03:06:11,280 --> 03:06:13,960
Speaker 2: this guy is and how how soft his actual base

3618
03:06:14,000 --> 03:06:16,840
Speaker 2: of organic support seems to be. This is one where

3619
03:06:16,840 --> 03:06:20,440
Speaker 2: I kind of suspect maybe once you actually get a

3620
03:06:20,600 --> 03:06:24,200
Speaker 2: decent candidate, and Poindexter really seems to be like He's

3621
03:06:24,240 --> 03:06:27,280
Speaker 2: a guy who spent his pretty much his entire year

3622
03:06:27,560 --> 03:06:31,480
Speaker 2: as like a union metal worker and is a reasonably

3623
03:06:31,560 --> 03:06:35,160
Speaker 2: good campaigner. He's been a five term councilman in brook Park, Ohio.

3624
03:06:35,280 --> 03:06:38,439
Speaker 2: Like he's he's someone who like this isn't a dilettante

3625
03:06:38,520 --> 03:06:40,480
Speaker 2: in politics, but also has like a real life I

3626
03:06:40,520 --> 03:06:42,840
Speaker 2: don't know, I could see this being something that, like,

3627
03:06:43,080 --> 03:06:46,480
Speaker 2: maybe the Democrats are actually able to flip here if

3628
03:06:46,520 --> 03:06:49,360
Speaker 2: Poindexter proves to be as good at campaigning in like

3629
03:06:49,440 --> 03:06:52,760
Speaker 2: an open election as he was in the primary. I'm

3630
03:06:52,879 --> 03:06:55,480
Speaker 2: kind of bullish about him anyway. It's something to watch.

3631
03:06:55,640 --> 03:06:59,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, last big story. As part of the ongoing lawsuit

3632
03:07:00,000 --> 03:07:04,760
Speaker 5: Louisiana v. FDA, on May one, the Fifth Circuit Court

3633
03:07:04,760 --> 03:07:08,279
Speaker 5: of Appeals granted a temporary ban on the remote prescription

3634
03:07:08,560 --> 03:07:13,760
Speaker 5: and mailed delivery of the abortion pill mith pristone. Last October,

3635
03:07:13,879 --> 03:07:17,000
Speaker 5: Louisiana brought this case against the FDA for a Biden

3636
03:07:17,120 --> 03:07:21,760
Speaker 5: era regulation allowing telehealth prescription and mail order access to

3637
03:07:21,879 --> 03:07:26,160
Speaker 5: the drug, which Louisiana claimed was unsafe and facilitated illegal

3638
03:07:26,280 --> 03:07:30,640
Speaker 5: abortions in the state. A district court had previously agreed

3639
03:07:30,720 --> 03:07:34,040
Speaker 5: that Louisiana was likely to win its challenge, but it

3640
03:07:34,160 --> 03:07:38,080
Speaker 5: did not grant the state's requested stay on the regulation.

3641
03:07:39,000 --> 03:07:41,160
Speaker 5: In fact, the lower court put the entire case on

3642
03:07:41,320 --> 03:07:46,560
Speaker 5: hold because last year RFK Junior announced an FDA review

3643
03:07:46,640 --> 03:07:51,040
Speaker 5: of mith pristone and its quote unquote reported adverse effects,

3644
03:07:51,959 --> 03:07:56,600
Speaker 5: with RFKA Junior specifically mentioning in his announcement that quote

3645
03:07:57,000 --> 03:08:01,280
Speaker 5: the Biden administration removed with the pristone's in person dispensing

3646
03:08:01,400 --> 03:08:06,560
Speaker 5: rule without studying the safety risks. Despite the case being

3647
03:08:06,600 --> 03:08:10,200
Speaker 5: put on hold due to the FDA's review, Louisiana appealed

3648
03:08:10,240 --> 03:08:13,240
Speaker 5: the lower court's decision to decline a stay on mail

3649
03:08:13,360 --> 03:08:16,840
Speaker 5: order with the pristone, and last week the Fifth Circuit

3650
03:08:17,240 --> 03:08:21,320
Speaker 5: ruled in the state's favor, temporarily reinstating this in person

3651
03:08:21,400 --> 03:08:25,600
Speaker 5: dispensing requirement while the case continues. But then on May fourth,

3652
03:08:25,800 --> 03:08:30,080
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court restored remote prescription and mail order access

3653
03:08:30,160 --> 03:08:32,520
Speaker 5: to with a pristone by blocking the Fifth Circuit Court

3654
03:08:32,520 --> 03:08:35,800
Speaker 5: of Appeals ruling. But this stay by the Supreme Court

3655
03:08:35,959 --> 03:08:40,000
Speaker 5: is only in effect until Monday, May eleventh. Meanwhile, the

3656
03:08:40,000 --> 03:08:43,000
Speaker 5: Supreme Court will consider responses from both parties and then

3657
03:08:43,080 --> 03:08:46,560
Speaker 5: issue a subsequent ruling. The majority of abortions in the

3658
03:08:46,640 --> 03:08:50,160
Speaker 5: United States are now administered through abortion medication like with

3659
03:08:50,280 --> 03:08:52,640
Speaker 5: a pristone, and according to a study publish in twenty

3660
03:08:52,640 --> 03:08:55,680
Speaker 5: twenty five, to one quarter of abortions are now done

3661
03:08:55,760 --> 03:08:59,920
Speaker 5: through telehealth services, double the rate from before the overturning

3662
03:09:00,200 --> 03:09:03,760
Speaker 5: of Dobbs. Other Republican states like Texas and Missouri are

3663
03:09:03,800 --> 03:09:07,200
Speaker 5: also engaged in other efforts to restrict access to with

3664
03:09:07,240 --> 03:09:12,840
Speaker 5: the prostone nationwide. Yeah, we'll keep up on this as

3665
03:09:12,879 --> 03:09:16,840
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court issues more definitive ruling in the near future.

3666
03:09:17,959 --> 03:09:21,199
Speaker 5: The last thing I want to mention very ever so briefly,

3667
03:09:22,000 --> 03:09:26,240
Speaker 5: a big news in marx Land, biggest update in Marxism

3668
03:09:26,400 --> 03:09:26,879
Speaker 5: in a while.

3669
03:09:27,200 --> 03:09:28,080
Speaker 4: Oh boy, oh good.

3670
03:09:28,160 --> 03:09:29,240
Speaker 2: New Marxism just dract.

3671
03:09:30,080 --> 03:09:33,040
Speaker 5: On Monday, the Secret Service shot a forty five year

3672
03:09:33,040 --> 03:09:36,200
Speaker 5: old man from Texas named Michael Marx spelt the same way,

3673
03:09:37,600 --> 03:09:43,480
Speaker 5: who was allegedly concealed carrying a sig p P sixty five.

3674
03:09:43,800 --> 03:09:47,119
Speaker 2: P three sixty five, Okay, P three sixty.

3675
03:09:46,840 --> 03:09:52,680
Speaker 5: Five well between the White House and Washington Monument. Secret

3676
03:09:52,720 --> 03:09:54,800
Speaker 5: Service say they tried to approach the man after noticing

3677
03:09:54,879 --> 03:09:57,800
Speaker 5: the imprint of a gun. The man then fled and

3678
03:09:57,879 --> 03:10:01,560
Speaker 5: allegedly fired towards the agents, who were turned fire, wounding

3679
03:10:01,720 --> 03:10:06,199
Speaker 5: mister Marx. While in the ambulance, he allegedly said, quote,

3680
03:10:06,320 --> 03:10:09,240
Speaker 5: fuck the White House and kill me, kill me, kill

3681
03:10:09,320 --> 03:10:13,240
Speaker 5: me unquote, oh dear. A fifteen year old was also

3682
03:10:13,320 --> 03:10:16,199
Speaker 5: shot during this incident, and at first Secret Service claimed

3683
03:10:16,240 --> 03:10:19,720
Speaker 5: that the armed man shot the kid, but they later

3684
03:10:19,959 --> 03:10:25,520
Speaker 5: renegged that claim, though after Marx was charged, US attorney

3685
03:10:26,240 --> 03:10:30,760
Speaker 5: Janine Piro repeated this claim, saying that he quote shot

3686
03:10:30,879 --> 03:10:33,680
Speaker 5: an innocent bystander who was simply crossing the street with

3687
03:10:33,760 --> 03:10:37,800
Speaker 5: his family unquote. After the shooting, Chris McDonald, a Congressional

3688
03:10:37,840 --> 03:10:41,120
Speaker 5: affairs official with Secret Service, told Congress that there was

3689
03:10:41,160 --> 03:10:43,880
Speaker 5: no indication that the man was targeting anyone inside the

3690
03:10:43,959 --> 03:10:48,640
Speaker 5: Executive complex, writing quote President Trump was not in any danger,

3691
03:10:49,320 --> 03:10:49,560
Speaker 5: So we.

3692
03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:52,280
Speaker 2: Don't actually know what happened here. Was this just some

3693
03:10:52,480 --> 03:10:55,960
Speaker 2: weirdo concealed carrying us presumably.

3694
03:10:55,520 --> 03:10:57,520
Speaker 4: Illegally right illegally? Yes?

3695
03:10:57,640 --> 03:11:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just because he's just does that? Or was

3696
03:11:03,040 --> 03:11:04,840
Speaker 2: he did he have something? Was he trying to commit?

3697
03:11:04,959 --> 03:11:07,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't it? That doesn't make much sense right now?

3698
03:11:08,120 --> 03:11:11,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's it's unclear what his intention was at

3699
03:11:11,879 --> 03:11:14,160
Speaker 5: this point. But then after being shot, by Secret Service.

3700
03:11:14,240 --> 03:11:16,760
Speaker 5: That's when he expressed, fuck the White House, kill me,

3701
03:11:16,879 --> 03:11:19,880
Speaker 5: kill me, kill me. But there's no indication he was

3702
03:11:20,120 --> 03:11:25,240
Speaker 5: targeting any elected official. Sure, but did allegedly shoot at

3703
03:11:25,280 --> 03:11:28,680
Speaker 5: Secret Service as they tried to approach and chase him.

3704
03:11:28,760 --> 03:11:29,240
Speaker 4: Interesting.

3705
03:11:29,520 --> 03:11:35,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, anyway, cool, I mean it's bad, but you know,

3706
03:11:36,080 --> 03:11:41,080
Speaker 5: yeah that that's it for us here and it could

3707
03:11:41,080 --> 03:11:44,040
Speaker 5: happen here. Yeah, we reported the news.

3708
03:11:44,640 --> 03:11:46,680
Speaker 8: Great, put a transcrol on your couch.

3709
03:11:48,200 --> 03:11:51,440
Speaker 3: If you want to send us an email specifically pretending

3710
03:11:51,480 --> 03:11:53,440
Speaker 3: to tits about news, you can do so.

3711
03:11:54,120 --> 03:11:58,240
Speaker 4: Cool Zone tips at proton on me. We reported the news.

3712
03:12:03,400 --> 03:12:06,520
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3713
03:12:06,640 --> 03:12:08,480
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3714
03:12:09,280 --> 03:12:11,760
Speaker 10: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3715
03:12:11,959 --> 03:12:14,959
Speaker 10: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3716
03:12:15,080 --> 03:12:18,600
Speaker 10: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3717
03:12:18,720 --> 03:12:20,640
Speaker 10: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

3718
03:12:20,440 --> 03:12:21,560
Speaker 5: You listen to podcasts.

3719
03:12:22,040 --> 03:12:23,960
Speaker 10: You can now find sources for it could Happen here

3720
03:12:24,040 --> 03:12:26,960
Speaker 10: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.