1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I am your 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: host job in Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and how the tech are here. It's time 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: for a tech Stuff classic episode. This episode originally published 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: July fifteen. It is titled The Manhattan Project Part One, 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: So I bet you can guess what next week's classic 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: episode is. This episode had been bolan of stuff they 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: don't want you to know, and Ridiculous History joined the 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: episode to talk about the Manhattan Project. We really get 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: into the physics in this one. Hope you enjoy. I 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: don't want to disparage the gravity of what we're doing 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: anything less than a few tangents or puns in this story, 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: because this is a fascinating story. It's a fascinating story, 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: and and you can't get around the fact that the 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: end of the story is massively tragic, right like, like, 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: there's there's a ton of things that we can talk about, 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: and what we are talking about is the Manhattan Project. 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna go ahead and let you guys know, 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: this sucker is going to be a two parter because 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: in order to cover the Manhattan Project. You have to 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: have an understanding of what was going on in physics 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: leading up to the beginning of the project, which will 24 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: be this episode, and then there's another episode that will 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: be all about the actual developments of the project itself. 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: And this is complicated for multiple reasons. One, nuclear physics 27 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: not straightforward as it turns out. Yeah, actually lots of 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: pressure because of the implosion technique, but we'll get into 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: that in episode two. Also politics, a lot of politics. 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, the Manhattan Project was formed as a 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: result of World War Two. If World War Two had 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: not been happening, the Manhattan Project probably would not have 33 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: been formed, and nuclear power may have either been pushed 34 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: back by quite a bit or someone else would have 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: ended up developing it ahead of the United States. So 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: both of those things. Science and politics by themselves are complex, 37 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: and when you combine the two and you try to 38 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: make science work within the realm of a political structure, 39 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: it gets messy. Yeah, and not not in like a 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: cool I got my hair cut at a nice salon, 41 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: Look at me. Messy. No, not like rolled out of bed. 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: Oh this didn't take me any time at all, right, 43 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: messy as in uh is a massive loss of blood 44 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: and treasure. I think we're looking at the equivalent of 45 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: when it got rolling thirty billion dollars you you know, 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: in money. All yeah, today's money. It all depends upon 47 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: the well, it really depends upon how you define the 48 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: scope of the project. Because that's something else that's kind 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: of confusing, because you hear Manhattan Project and you think, okay, uh, 50 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 1: Manhattan Project, that's the one that took place in oak Ridge, Tennessee, Hanford, Washington, 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: Los Alamos, New Mexico. Makes sense. We will explain all 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: of that as we go through. So in case you 53 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: weren't aware, the Manhattan Project was the code named the 54 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: United States government gave to the the effort to design 55 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: and build an atomic bomb for use in World War two. 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: And in order for us to talk about we have 57 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: to go back way before World War two. In fact, 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: we have to go back before World War One. Yes, yeah, 59 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: we have to go all the way back to the 60 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: I guess the end of the nineteenth century, that is correct, 61 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century. Uh, there was a fella by the 62 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: name of Henrie Beccarell alright, who had made an interesting 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: observation observing that some material when placed against some plates 64 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: would create a negative image. And he had assumed that 65 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: this material was phosphorescent, that it absorbed light and then 66 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: given off some form of ray to create this image, 67 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: but later determined that he was mistaken, that there was 68 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: no need for the sunlight. The stuff was giving off 69 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: the rays by itself. And then you had the Curies 70 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: coming along, who who went on to study this themselves. 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: Marie Cury coined the term radioactive radioactive with the word 72 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: ray in it. And so at this point there was 73 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: an understanding that certain elements had a type of energy 74 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: they could give off spontaneously, spontaneous radiation. And that is 75 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: the beginning the nub, that the kernel that forms the 76 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: the very center of the Manhattan Project's purpose. So building 77 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: on that we then have there's a guy in Nive. 78 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: He had a little theory. It was a special theory, 79 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: I mean relatively special man. Yes, yes, And that that 80 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: man you may know today through countless Internet memes Albert Einstein. Yes, yes, 81 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: Albert Einstein, al to his friends, was a brilliant physicist, obviously, 82 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: and it was all the way back in n when 83 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: Einstein proposed the special theory of relativity, which, among many 84 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: other things, positive that energy and matter are pretty much interchangeable. 85 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: And this is where the the famous equation E equals 86 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: MC squared comes from. The E means energy, the M 87 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: means mass. The C squared C stands for the constant 88 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: of the speed of light through a vacuum. Keeping in 89 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: mind that light actually can travel at different speeds depending 90 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: upon the medium through which it travels. Travels more slowly 91 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: through water than through a vacuum, for example. So you 92 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: take that constant of lights the speed of light in 93 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: a vacuum, and you square it, so a number that's 94 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: already huge gets huger. That huge number, by the way, 95 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: in case you're wondering, is two hundred fifty eight meters 96 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: per second. Squaring that you get eight point nine nine 97 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: times ten to the sixteen power. It's a big number. 98 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: So what that tells you if you look at that equation, 99 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: what that tells you is that a very tiny amount 100 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: of mass is equivalent to an enormous amount of energy, 101 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: and vice versa, an enormous amount of energy is equivalent 102 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: to a teeny tiny little bit of mass. So if 103 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: you were to have a physical process in which you 104 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: start with an atom and you split that atom and 105 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: the two components of that split atom collectively have less 106 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: mass than the original atom. You can't destroy or create 107 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: energy or mass, but you can convert one to the other. 108 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: That mask gets converted into energy, essentially kinetic energy, which 109 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: gets convered into heat, and then you get a whole 110 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: bunch of heat from it. Yeah, that's what Einstein had said. 111 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: He says, this is this is the way the universe works. 112 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: Energy and mass ultimately the same thing. And then there 113 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: were if I recall, there were three broad historical reactions. 114 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: Some people said nah, some people said maybe a lot 115 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: of people went oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, And and so 116 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: this really uh, you know, we're gonna be talking about 117 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: a lot about two different types of scientists. Theoretical scientists 118 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: not they're not theoretical, they work in the realm of theory, 119 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: and experimental scientists who take theory apply experiments to test 120 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: those theories and then find out if the results either 121 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: bear the theorial or it needs to be tweaked or whatever. Right, So, uh. 122 00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: In nineteen eleven we get another important development by discovery 123 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: by the fellow named Ernest Rutherford. Now, Rutherford proposes a 124 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: model of the atom in which you have a nucleus 125 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: of positive particles which are dubbed protons, and they're orbited 126 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: by negatively charged particles dubbed electrons. That's the Rutherford model 127 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: of the atom. And it's the simplest version question. Yes, 128 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: just just for you and the audience. I'm sure a 129 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: lot of people have wondered this when they were learning this. 130 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: When I can go with no trons, no tron's I mean, 131 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: this sounds so much cooler because he was pro it's 132 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: a positive thing. Well, they're like protons, electrons, protons, no trons. Oh, 133 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: I got you. But being being negative, those would be 134 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: the no trons. Well, because electrons are the agent through 135 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: which electricity is you know, it's a matter of priority 136 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: and that transcends a matter of marketing. But I'm saying 137 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: we could even go back to the fact that Benjamin 138 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: Franklin was convinced that current means that that's the movement 139 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: of positively charged particles from one point to the other, 140 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: which is why current flows in the opposite direction of 141 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: actual electricity, which, by the way, drives me crazy. You've 142 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: talked about it before, and which, by the way, I 143 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: think we could cut to the end of the show 144 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: because this means clearly that nuclear weapons are should be 145 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: the blame for those should be laid at the at 146 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: the field of Benjamin Franklin, like so many things. Bad guy. 147 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, so Ernest Rutherford, So he discovers this, 148 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: He creates this model, and then Neil's Bore, another important physicist. 149 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: He refines that model. He starts to concentrate on the 150 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: quantum behavior of electrons, and that's where we get the 151 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: Bore model of Adams. And then I'm going to skip 152 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: ahead to nineteen nineteen, and that's when Rutherford transmutes nitrogen 153 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: into oxygen. This is something that alchemists had been attempting 154 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: to do for centuries, although their form of transportation was 155 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: more about lead into gold. Sure, sure, or the Philosopher's 156 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: stone or whatever. But this is an actual transmutation. This 157 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: is a point where Rutherford uh crosses. I don't want 158 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: to say it as though he's like doing something bad, 159 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: but where he where he goes from just a theory 160 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: to the application the way we're talking about demonstrating it 161 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: in the real world. And uh, this triggers even more 162 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: changes in our timeline. Right. So the way he does 163 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: this is he takes some nitrogen atoms and he bombards 164 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: them with something called alpha particles and alpha particles essentially, 165 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: although he didn't know this yet, an alpha particle is 166 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: essentially to protons and two neutrons, also known as a 167 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: heli helium nucleus. So if you use a helium nucleus, 168 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: if you strip away the electrons, what you're left with 169 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: is essentially an alpha particle. And he bobards these nitrogen 170 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: adoms with that. That's what converts it over into oxygen. 171 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: So then we skip ahead by a couple of decades. 172 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: Are well a little more than a decade to two. Yes, 173 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: this is when James Chadwick, was one of Rutherford's colleagues, 174 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: discovers the nucleus of an atom can by the way, 175 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: two big year in physics. Yeah, so he discovers that 176 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: the nucleus of an atom can also contain particles that 177 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: have no charge at all, hanging out. They're just they're 178 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of like that roommate I used to have, 179 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: who you know. I felt like, come on, dude, just 180 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: just pay your part of the utilities already. Come on. 181 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna be so yeah, these are 182 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: these are neutral. That's that's the neutrons. And by this 183 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: time there was an understanding now that the atoms typically 184 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: consisted of protons and neutrons, and the nucleus and orbited 185 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: by a number of electrons that were equal to the 186 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: number of protons, and that's what balances out the charge. 187 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: There's a but oh, let's infommercial it. But wait, there's more. 188 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: There is more. Two things that you can you can 189 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: talk about, one which is really important in nuclear physics, 190 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: and one which is not going to really play a part. 191 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: One of the that being that if you have an 192 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: atom that has an excess or of electrons or too 193 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: few electrons, it's an UH. It's an ion of that 194 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: particular atom. But you can also have a different number 195 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: of neutrons from the protons. You can have a variety 196 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: of them, and we call these different varieties of these 197 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: various atoms isotopes. So an isotope of an atom is 198 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: UH is a version of that atom that has a 199 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: specific number of neutrons. So that's important to remember now. 200 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: At the time when Chadwick made this discovery, hydrogen was 201 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: the the the lightest, the least massive of all the 202 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: elements at one and the heaviest or the one with 203 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: the most mass, was uranium at ninety two. That number 204 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: refers to the number of protons in the atom, not 205 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: the number of neutrons. So chemists had discovered that the 206 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: atoms of the of the same elements sometimes had different weights. 207 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: This is what led to the discovery of isotopes. So 208 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: they'd say, oh, well, here's a uranium atom, but we've 209 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: got this other uranium atom and they they're chemically identical. 210 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: They're exactly the same chemically, but this other one is 211 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: a little heavier than this one. So what is what? 212 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense, and that's where they discovered isotopes. 213 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: So uranium has three isotopes. All of them have ninety 214 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: two protons and ninety two electrons, because if they didn't, 215 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be uranium. But it does have a different 216 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: number of neutrons. So you've got uranium two three eight. 217 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: That's the most common form of uranium found in nature. 218 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: U It has a hundred forty six neutrons in the 219 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: nucleus and it's nine. It makes all natural uranium. So 220 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: when you when you go uranium hunting, odds are you 221 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: going to find? You two thirty eight. Then you have 222 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: uranium two thirty five which has a hundred forty three neutrons, 223 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: and uranium two thirty four, which has at two neutrons. 224 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: And you two thirty five will become incredibly important in 225 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: this DISCUSSI and you two thirty four is one of 226 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: the decay products. Right. So, also in ninety two going 227 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: on at the same time, you had physicists J. D. 228 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: Crocroft and E. T. S. Walton split a lithium atom 229 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: into two helium nuclei. Uh, the the protons and neutrons 230 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: I was talking about, by bombarding the lithium with protons 231 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: using a particle accelerator. And this is the first example 232 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: of someone splitting the atom the very first time. Yeah, 233 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: it is. In my opinion, this is up there with 234 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: the first human footfall on the move. Ye. This fundamentally 235 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: changes everything, and it's strange that we don't hear more 236 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: people talk about it. Yeah, a lot of people will 237 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: talk about the early work in nuclear fission, which we 238 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: will get to, which happened in a place that precipitated 239 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: the need from men on projects. So in California two 240 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: same time as everything else, you had a group with 241 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: Ernest oh Lawrence, who will be incredibly important in this conversation. 242 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: Stanley Livingston and Milton White who operated the first cyclotron 243 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: on the Berkeley campus of the University of California, and 244 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: Lawrence would end up playing an instrumental role in the 245 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: Manhattan Project. Yeah. No, for everyone who's wondering a cyclotron, 246 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: it was a particle accelerator, right right. It was this 247 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: is the era where we start getting the earliest particle accelerators. 248 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: The Vandergraf would build one as well, in a different style. Uh. 249 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: And Lawrence was was working on this early and not 250 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: with the goal of nuclear fission necessarily. It was part 251 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: of particle physics to understand more about the fundamental particles 252 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: that make up all the stuff around us. Uh. And 253 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: it ultimately would end up being used to help create 254 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: the material real for nuclear weapons, but at the time 255 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: no one had any concept of doing that. Three. There 256 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: were some early attempts to find a reliable way to 257 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: split atoms, but they're largely unsuccessful or very inefficient. They 258 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: require huge amounts of power, and I'll tell you why. 259 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: Most of them used protons fired at an atomic nucleus. 260 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: So here's the thing. Protons have a positive charge. Correct 261 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: atomic nucleus also has a positive charge because it's only 262 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: made up of protons and neutrons, so we have positive 263 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: and positive So what happens if you put two ends, 264 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: like two northern ends of two different magnets together hate 265 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, they do. It's uh, you know a 266 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: lot like me and Josh Clark, we just despite the 267 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: fact we sit right next to each other, there's just 268 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: this repulsion. It's the other one. It's kind of amazing, Like, 269 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: you know, like if I start walking towards Josh's chair 270 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: just rolls the other way. Now Josh and I get 271 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: along just time. Obviously he was just recently on the 272 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: tech stuff, so um. But yeah, it was really hard 273 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: to get a direct hit on a nucleus because of 274 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: this these light charges repelling one another. In fact, there 275 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: were some estimates that said that it only happened one 276 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: every one million tries non efficient way to split at him. 277 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: So while people were starting to think there might be 278 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: a way of getting some energy from this, like to 279 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: use this as a means of generating power or perhaps 280 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: even creating a weapon down the line, the efficiency was 281 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: so low that it didn't seem like it was going 282 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: to be uh A viable exactly, Like it's a good 283 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: proof of concept. Yeah, So Albert Einstein, niels Bore, and 284 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: Rutherford all felt that the process would be great for 285 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: getting a better understanding of nuclear physics, but would remain 286 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: impractical for pretty much anything else. Now, Rutherford actually described 287 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: the idea of harnessing nuclear inner g as moonshine. That 288 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: was what he called it. Einstein his version was saying, 289 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: it's like the ability to get a proton to to 290 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: collide with the nucleus would be akin to walking into 291 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: an enormous room that's pitch black and shooting at a 292 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: couple of birds flying around randomly through the right. Yeah, 293 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: that was his his comparison. And then no way to 294 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: make it not an accident, right, and heels Bore said, 295 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: it's pretty much a long shot unless we figure out 296 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: something else. And then you had another fellow, a Hungarian 297 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: physicist who was living in the United States, Leo sciss Lard, 298 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: and sciss Lard hypothesized that if you use something else, 299 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: not protons, what have you used a beam of neutrons 300 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: aimed at an atom, Because neutrons have no charge, so 301 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: there's no repulstion there. Yeah, The only thing is that 302 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: how do you shoot a non charged particle, Because if 303 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: you're using protons, then all you can do, all you 304 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: have to do is created a positive charge to repel 305 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: it or a negative charge to attract it and move 306 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: it that way, but a neutral one is a little trickier. 307 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: Um But he thought if you could do this, and 308 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: if the atom was large enough where it had its 309 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: own neutrons, sometimes when that atom splits up, it might 310 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: give off neutrons too. And if it gives off neutrons 311 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: with enough energy and you have enough atoms there, those 312 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: neutrons could collide with other atoms, which could cause them 313 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: to break apart, and those neutrons could go out and 314 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: hit other atoms, and each time you would be multiplying 315 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: this effect. As long as you had more than one 316 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: neutron being given off and as long as those were 317 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: colliding with some other atoms, this trend would continue until 318 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: you were out of stuff or the neutrons or therere 319 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: just weren't enough atoms for the neutrons to make contact, 320 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: and you would get a nuclear chain reaction which you 321 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: could use to either power or a city or blow 322 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: one up. Yes, yes, at that point they you know, 323 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: the next question and becomes like, well, yes, at that point, 324 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: the next question becomes a matter of control, because you know, 325 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: it's all well and good from an academic perspective to say, oh, guys, 326 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: look at this neat thing that we think we can do. 327 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: And then you know, for someone to say, okay, well 328 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: let's let's try it. Let's get the rubber on the road, 329 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: and then what do you think is going to happen? 330 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: And they say, well, one or two things. It's either 331 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: going to power the city or blow it up. But 332 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: we're pretty confident it's going to be one of those two. 333 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: So the next question is like, how do you make 334 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: this use right? And and for Leo, I'm gonna call 335 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: Leo because I'm just gonna Putcher his last name off 336 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: otherwise the Hungarian physicist. Uh. For Leo, the problem was 337 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: that when he was first trying this out, he was 338 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: using lighter atoms and he couldn't get these sustained reactions, 339 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: so he kind of he kind of thought, well, I 340 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: guess that's a bust. It's like a good idea, but 341 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: it's not working. So so so there it became an 342 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: academic question for a while because there was, they weren't. 343 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: He wasn't using the heavier atoms, which would have created 344 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: a sustainable reaction, would have been dense enough to have 345 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: that impact. They don't decay in the same way that 346 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: other other ones might just take on the neutron, they 347 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 1: wouldn't split apart. In other words, we'll be back with 348 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: more of this classic episode of tech stuff after this 349 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: quick break. So moving on with four, we get another 350 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: fellow who becomes very important in Manhattan Project, Enrico Fermi, 351 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: an Italian physicist. He begins to use neutrons to bobard atoms, 352 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: and he figured the uncharged particles wouldn't meet that same 353 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: resistance as protons, just as Leo had. He was right. 354 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: He bombarded sixty three different stable elements with neutrons and 355 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: created thirty seven new radioactive atoms. And he also found 356 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: out that if he used urban and hydrogen, he could 357 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: actually slow the movement of the neutrons a little bit, 358 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: and that would actually increase the chances of a nucleus 359 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: accepting a new neutron. So you wanted to fire the 360 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: neutrons fast, but not too fast. You had you had 361 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: to control that. So he then bombarded uranium with neutrons 362 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: had created something, but he had no idea what it was. 363 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: In fact, no one was really sure at the time. 364 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: There was a lot of disagreement in the scientific community 365 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: about whatever for Me had made because it was new, 366 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: and because it was new, they didn't know, right. So, Yeah, 367 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: so they were wondering if it was transuranic, as in 368 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: a man made element that would not be found in nature, 369 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: or if for Me had somehow managed to split up 370 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: uranium so that behave like lighter elements, because some of 371 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: the stuff that was left over it seemed really similar 372 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: to lighter elements on the elemental table, But how could 373 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: that be magic? Yeah, and it's fine because he had 374 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: actually achieved nuclear fission but did not know it. He 375 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: didn't he didn't understand it enough to know that that's 376 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: what had happened at the time. And that takes us 377 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: to thirty eight. And this is the event that really 378 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: creates the need for the Manhattan Project because it takes 379 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: place in Berlin. Now, nineteen thirty eight. In Berlin, it 380 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: was already a very tumultuous time in Europe, right. World 381 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: War two had not yet begun, but Germany had started 382 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: to really cause huge problems, including UH cracking down on 383 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: the Jewish population already UH, and it was you know, 384 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: the whole Germany Austrian alliance was was an issue. And 385 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: then there were rumblings about Germany possibly invading other countries. 386 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: And then this was also spreading to you know, Italy 387 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: as well. Yes, Italy was also invading African nations at 388 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: the time. So this was really a tumultuous period. So 389 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: in Berlin, UH, Germany was a place where there where 390 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: particle physics, theoretical physics had really blossomed at the end 391 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century beginning of the twentieth century, and 392 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: you had a collection of scientists who all were just 393 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: interested in furthering our understanding of the universe. They just 394 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: happened to be in a place where that understanding was 395 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: going to be UH tilted toward the ends of the 396 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: German government. So radiochemists Auto Han and Fritz Strassman, we're 397 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: using firms method of bombarding atoms with neutrons, and they 398 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: found that uranium nuclei, unlike other nuclei, didn't just absorb 399 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: the neutrons. They broke apart into two more or less 400 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: equal pieces. They became fragments of uranium and radioactive barrium isotopes, 401 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: which explained why some of the substances from firms experi 402 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: ements resembled lighter elements because they were they were Merriam. 403 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: So that was the the scientific explanation of what was 404 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: going on with Firm and firm. He's like, hum, that's interesting. Um. 405 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: What's also interesting is that this information, because you know, 406 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: it also released some energy. Uh. This information was examined 407 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: by Lease Mightener and her nephew Otto Frish Uh. Mightener 408 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: was a Jewish exile. She had fled Austria and was 409 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: living in Sweden and was working with Han and Strassmann 410 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: through correspondence. UM and she and Fresh looked at the 411 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: results of the experiments and concluded that they released an 412 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: enormous amount of energy and that this marked a new 413 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: type of process, which was explained by the equals MC 414 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: squared equation. So again we see a physical proof of 415 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: a theoretical proposition. Right, and this also started bring a light. Hey, 416 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: maybe we should really take that Einstein equation thing really seriously. Um. 417 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,719 Speaker 1: So Fresh was the one who called the process fission 418 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: that's where we get nuclear fission was from Otto Frisha's 419 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: description of the of this. He was taking um inspiration 420 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: from biological processes and cell division, so that's where he 421 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: came up with fission. And just to just to interject 422 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: not too much of the political landscape, but I do 423 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: think it's important to note a big thing Hack happened 424 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: to firm me in thirty eight as well, And why 425 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: don't you tell me about that? Well, in he left 426 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: Italy to uh receive his Nobel Prize in physics, which is, uh, 427 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's a pretty good deal. It's like when 428 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: you get that tenth stamp on your subway card. Oh. 429 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, you finally get that star on 430 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: the on the Walk of Fame. Yeah, yeah, you finally 431 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: get the star, which I think I don't remember which 432 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: subway stamp that is. No, it's it's like, I think 433 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: you've got to go like at least twelve times. Oh, Mick, 434 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: come on, that's a commitment anyway. Well, somehow I'm going 435 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: to go out on a limb and say it's because 436 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: he was a genius, uh, and the based on his 437 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: discoveries for me, leaves Italy to receive the Nobel Prize, 438 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: and he never returns because you know at the time, 439 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: as you know to your earlier point, the situation in 440 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: Europe is at a slow boil, and especially if you 441 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: are Jewish, as firm he is, this is uh, this 442 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: is a time where you can, like legois, smell a 443 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: fell wind. Yeah, there's actually there's a I mean, if 444 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: you and I'm sure I know I've talked about this 445 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: in a previous episode. I can't remember what the subject was, 446 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: but I remember specifically talking about um uh German scientists, 447 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: German and Austrian scientists who fled Europe in advance of 448 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany. UH, and 449 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: then some who stuck around believing that things would get better, 450 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: only to find out that in fact was not the case. 451 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: And how despite their brilliance and their contributions to science, 452 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: because of their their heritage, they were treated, they were 453 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: they were pulled away from their work, some of them, 454 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: of them were imprisoned. Um. And of course there's a 455 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: whole other story we could talk about with the United 456 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: States liberating certain scientists to work for them instead of 457 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: for the Nazis. That might be it would be a 458 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: little bit of Yeah, that is definitely a different too far. 459 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: That's actually more in rocketry than it is with the man. 460 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: But at any rate, so nine our buddy Leo. He 461 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: realizes the work by Han and Strassmann could be the 462 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: answer to his failures to produce a nuclear chain reaction, 463 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: and that uranium would be heavy enough and commit neutrons 464 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: at an energy great enough to cause a split in 465 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: another atom. So if you had enough uranium, you could 466 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: presumably create a nuclear chain reaction that way. Uh So 467 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: this is this renews his interest in the possibility of 468 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: creating one of these. Um. He actually asked that for 469 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: me and Frederick Jolie Currie refrain from publishing their findings. 470 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: He asks them not to publish them because since he's 471 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: made this realization that a nuclear chain reaction could be possible, 472 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: his fear is that if they publish their findings, the 473 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: Nazis will hear about it, and because the initial study 474 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: was done in Berlin, they could end up putting this 475 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: on the fast track to developing a weapons program, which 476 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: would change the course of the war. Yeah, which keep 477 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: in mind, this is when the war officially begins, right 478 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: when you know, when the World War two start, Well, 479 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: people would say that's when Germany invaded Poland, and that's 480 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: that happens in the nine. So he asks them not 481 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 1: to publish their findings now for me, says okay and 482 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: holds off. But Curie goes ahead and publishes his work 483 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: in April ninety nine. So it turns out those concerns 484 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: were warranted to Leo turns to the the rock star 485 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: of rock stars, because keep in mind, this is an 486 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: era when scientists had a certain prestige among the public. 487 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the era of people like Tesla 488 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: making headlines and Edison, and meanwhile you've got other scientists 489 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: and engineers who are capturing the imagination of hundreds of 490 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,239 Speaker 1: thousands of people. He turns to the most influential of 491 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: them all, good old Einstein, and Leo says to al 492 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: listen here, bat Bubby, Uh that equation you made awesome, 493 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: turns out your right problem. Now we know how to 494 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: make a practical application of that. Potentially it's gonna take 495 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: some years, but the juryman's are already aware of this. 496 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: And you know how bad the Germans can be. We're 497 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: having this conversation not in Germany. And when I say Germans, 498 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: obviously I'm talking about the Nazi Party. I have nothing 499 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: against Germans at any rate. So he says, we need 500 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: to convince the United States government that we have to 501 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: get on this right now, because if we don't, they will, 502 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: and then that's just going to be domination for Germany. 503 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: And so Einstein, convinced by Leo, decides to write a 504 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: letter to President Roosevelt FDR not not Teddy. So he 505 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: writes a letter to Roosevelt and expresses their concerns about 506 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: the possibility of a nuclear weapon program starting in Germany 507 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: and arguing that, uh, the United States really has to 508 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: take that endo consideration. Uh. The letter is sent in 509 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: August nineteen nine, and on September one, nineteen thirty nine, 510 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: Germany invades Poland. World War two begins officially because that's 511 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: when you get other nations in Europe declaring war against Germany. 512 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: So Roosevelt has a meeting with his close friend and 513 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: unofficial advisor, Alexander Sachs, who's not a politician, he's a 514 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: financial advisor type. Saxon Roosevelt sit down and on October eleventh, 515 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, they talk about Einstein's letter. On October nineteenth, 516 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: Roosevelt writes back to Einstein and says he has formed 517 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: a committee made up of representatives from the Army and 518 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: the Navy plus sacks to research uranium. Yeah, the Advisory 519 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: Committee on Uranium headed by Lyman J. Briggs. Yeah, Briggs 520 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: would become another important figure in this in this story. 521 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: That has formed officially on October twenty one, nineteen thirty nine. 522 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: So this happens fast, right, They talked about on the eleventh, 523 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: on the nineteenth rights back to Einstein. On the twenty one, 524 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,959 Speaker 1: this new committee meets for the first time. Uh. Briggs, 525 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: by the way, was the former director of the National 526 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: Bureau of Standards. Now you get Faremi and Leo concentrating 527 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: on using carbon in the form of graphite to slow 528 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: down neutrons in a pile of you two thirty eight, 529 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: and by slowing down the neutrons, they hope to increase 530 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: the chances of a chain reaction. But they discovered that 531 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: that method would really only be suitable for probably generating 532 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: power because it would require too large a form factor 533 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: to make an effective bomb out of it. The uranium 534 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: didn't react at a level fast enough for it to 535 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: be an explosive release of power. Yeah, So Faremi thought 536 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 1: the chances of this being useful in a weapon are 537 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: pretty slim, but it could be a really useful way 538 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: of generating electricity. Now, meanwhile, uh, if we moved to 539 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: nineteen forty, physicists were starting to run into a problem. 540 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: You're two thirty eight was not prone to creating these 541 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: nuclear chain reactions. They were they were having issues with this, 542 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: and that's the most common when that's the one that 543 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: is of the world's uranium. Right, So here's your stuff, 544 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: but it don't work. It would be like imagine that 545 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: you you have, you know, a big battery drawer, and 546 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: of those batteries have just a little juice in them. 547 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: They're not enough for you to like, you know, you 548 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: put them in your RC car and your car just goes. 549 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: You know, I hate that. But there's another eight percent 550 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 1: still out there. Yeah, and some of that is uranium 551 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: two thirty five, but it's it's usually wrapped up in 552 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: you two thirty eight. It's not you know, it's not 553 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: like you just find little veins of YouTube out there. 554 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: So John are Dunning observed that uranium two thirty five 555 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: appeared to be a lot more promising, but only if 556 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: you could separate it from you two thirty eight. So 557 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: now they're they're thinking, well, if there's some way for 558 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: us to separate these isotopes from two from two thirty 559 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: eight and concentrate enough to thirty five and one spot, 560 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: we might be able to create a nuclear reaction chain 561 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: reaction that is sustainable until a significant amount of that 562 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: fuel is converted into energy, in which case you would 563 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 1: have either a big boom or a sustained power source. 564 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: So we're going for the boom. Yes, so without enriching you, 565 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: two thirty five is pretty much impossible to experiment further, 566 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: they didn't have a way of doing this, like they figure, well, 567 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: to thirty five, according to the math, is better. Here's 568 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: the problem. I don't know how to get the two 569 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: thirty five out from the two yet right in a 570 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: way that would come across come up with more than 571 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: just microscopic amounts of you. And we're talking about the 572 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: need for kims of the stuff. So it's a problem. 573 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: It was also in nineteen forty that the Advisory Committee 574 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: on Uranium recommended that the government fund research into isotope 575 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: separation and nuclear chain reactions, which the committee did. So 576 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: separating two from two thirty five was hard. They're chemically identical. 577 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: So you can't use chemistry to do it because they're 578 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,760 Speaker 1: going to react exactly the same way. They're telling Masses 579 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: differ by less than one per cent, so finding a 580 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: way of separating them by mass is also a little tricky. 581 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: But one of the more promising methods was the electro 582 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: magnetic method. Now, this meant that you would create a 583 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: magnetic field generated by a mass spectrometer to separate particles, 584 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: and essentially you create a magnetic field, and yeah, I 585 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: had the particles come into contact with a magnetic field. 586 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: The magnetic field would deflect particles. Particles that had greater 587 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: mass would be deflected a shorter distance. Yeah, because it 588 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: can't push those as far right. So you could do 589 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: this and deflect those particles, but it wasn't exactly fast. 590 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty they estimated that to create a gram 591 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: of you two thirty five using a mass spectrometer. In 592 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: this a if you took you two thirty eight and 593 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: two thirty five together and tried to just get one 594 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: gram of you two thirty five, it would take you 595 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: approximately twenty seven thousand years. Not not like not the 596 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: ideal time frame. Not if you wanted to respond to 597 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: escalating aggression in Europe, not not so much twenty seven years. 598 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: Probably some multiple conflicts would have had that happened and 599 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: resolved during that time. I think Hitler, who was admittedly 600 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: an ambitious dude, was only planning on the Reich itself 601 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: to be like a thousand years. Yeah, so it would 602 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: have been a pretty it would have been a pretty 603 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: long long bet. We would have been embarrassingly late to 604 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: the party. Yes, So luckily there were other ones too 605 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: that they were looking into. One of them was Gassiest diffusion, 606 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: which I have suffered from myself an occasion to say 607 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: thank you. Gassiest diffusion was that's where you would use 608 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: a porous barrier and you would use gas that has 609 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: you two thirty eight and YouTube thirty five atoms in 610 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: it to pass through this porous barrier. Now, the you 611 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: too thirty five, being of less mass, would pass more 612 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: readily through the barrier. So you would do this once 613 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: and then the mixture you would have would have a 614 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: higher concentration of you two thirty five than the previous 615 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: one did because fewer of the You two thirty eight 616 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 1: would have gone through. But then you have to repeat 617 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: the process, and you repeat the process over and over 618 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: and over again. It's kind of like passing a solution 619 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,439 Speaker 1: through a filter, and each pass the filter catches more 620 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: and more of the stuff you don't want and allows 621 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: the stuff you do want to go through. But it's 622 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: not full proof. That's why you have to keep on 623 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: doing it. TOSS so again, not terribly efficient. John Dunning 624 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: focused on that particular method. Then you also had the 625 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: possibility of using centrifuges. And a centrifuge, you know it 626 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: essentially it spins around and around and around and use 627 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: a centrifugal force or tripital force if you prefer, but 628 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: centrifical force to to separate out materials. The heavier materials 629 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: sink to one end, the lighter materials are pushed to 630 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: the top. So in this case, you two thirty five 631 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: would be kind of at the top and center of 632 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: the centrifuge, and the U two three it would be 633 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: would it sinkle down lower and you would skim it 634 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: off the top. Centrifuges, however, at the time not terribly reliable. 635 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: That was headed off by a guy named Jesse W. 636 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: Beams at the University of Virginia. We've got more to 637 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: say in this classic episode of tech stuff. After these 638 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: quick messages, we're gonna get into the politics. And there's 639 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: a guy. I have a feeling that he's come up 640 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: and stuff they don't want you to know. Maybe once 641 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: or twice. Have you guys ever talked about Vanavar Bush. 642 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: We have talked about Vanavar Bush. He is a He 643 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: was an American engineer and inventor. He headed the US 644 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: Office of Scientific Research and Development. Yeah. Uh, and he 645 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: was one of the early uh now, well, okay, he 646 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: was the go to guy from military R and D 647 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: at the time in the US. He was also kind 648 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: of like the liaison between the politicians and the scientists. 649 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: It's a great way to put it, because he had 650 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: the analytical scientific mind. He had the chops that would 651 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: be required from a scientist. Again, like a rock star 652 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: to respect you. He's incredibly ambitious as well as effective 653 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: at maneuvering through different power structures. This guy was like 654 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: he could get stuff done and no offense to the 655 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: various stereotypes of scientists. But he probably was better at 656 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: playing the game of diplomacy. Yeah, you know, because he 657 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,240 Speaker 1: was he knew he understood how that particular science worked. 658 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: So he was the president of the Carnegie Foundation, and 659 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: then was appointed the head of the National Defense Research Committee, 660 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: which was a voice within the executive branch of government. 661 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: And under that the Uranium Committee was reorganized. So the 662 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: Uranium Committee gets uh kind of a new version, a 663 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: new yeah, that kind of mission statement. Um And and 664 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: it also meant that it was no longer organized under 665 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: the military department, so it didn't have to yeah, I mean, 666 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: they could get their funding outside of the military. So 667 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: instead of the Army or the Navy deciding, all right, 668 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: we're going to allocate this much of our budget towards 669 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: uranium research, it was an independent organization underneath this new committee, 670 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: um so Bush allocated funds to continuing research in nuclear 671 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: power and weapons. But he made some decisions that ended 672 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: up um really shaping the direction that the Manhattan Project 673 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: would move in. The first decision he made was that 674 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: no one on the Middy would be allowed to be 675 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: foreign born. No foreign born scientists would be allowed on 676 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 1: the committee. The man Einstein was not part of this party. 677 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: He also barred the publication of scientific findings on uranium 678 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: research for an indetermined amount of time because again, like 679 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: like the the Leo's previous concerns. He didn't want this 680 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,479 Speaker 1: any know, the discoveries to make their way across into 681 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,919 Speaker 1: enemy hands. So now we're getting up to nineteen forty one. 682 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: World War two is in full swing in Europe. UH. 683 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: Glen T. S Borg, another important person, identifies element ninety four, 684 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 1: a trans uranium or man made element that was produced 685 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: from radioactive decay of an isotope of neptunium. Neptunium is 686 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: also a trans uranium element, that's ninety three, So ninety 687 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,439 Speaker 1: four he gets to name it. I call it plutonium. Yeah. 688 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: And he discovers that one of the features of plutonium 689 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: is that's one point seven times more likely to undergo 690 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: fission as uranium two thirty five. It loves fission, yeah, 691 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: to thirty five loves fishing more than two thirty eight. 692 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: Plutonium loves fission more than uranium two thirty five. So 693 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: the experiments took place at Ernest Lawrence's radiation laboratory at Berkeley. 694 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: So Lawrence again very important here. Lawrence personally felt that 695 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: the Uranium Committee was a little slow, that it was 696 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: not responding fast enough, it wasn't funding the research. Uh. 697 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: And so he met with Van of our Bush and 698 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: then Bush saw Lawrence as being really persuasive and and influential, 699 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: so he makes Lawrence an advisor to Briggs. You know, 700 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: Briggs was the head of that uranium committee. And so 701 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,359 Speaker 1: once that happens, suddenly the coffers opened up a little bit, 702 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: more and more research gets funded. Uh. Vanavar Bush also 703 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: created a committee to report on the uranium program in 704 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: the US, and he put Arthur Compton, who was a 705 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: physicist who specialized in radiation studies, in charge of it. 706 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: So Compton makes a report in May nineteen forty one 707 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: and confirmed that either you two thirty five or plutonium 708 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: were the most likely candidates for some sort of atomic weapon. Yes. Uh. 709 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: And on June one, the United States establishes the Office 710 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: of Scientific Research and Development. This is the one you 711 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: referred to as Bush being of the head of it. 712 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: This is when it was officially made a thing. It 713 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: was officially. Yeah, we we had talked to I think 714 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: and stuff that I want you to know about about 715 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: that time, just a few days before this is actually 716 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: was a few days after the twenty two when Germany 717 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: invaded the Soviet Union. Yes, so yeah, various things are 718 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: hitting various fans right right. The big one being that 719 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: there is a lot of incentive to push this research through. Uh. Meanwhile, 720 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 1: James B. Conant, who was president of Harvard became the 721 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: new head of the National Defense Research Committee, which was 722 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,280 Speaker 1: now an advisory board that would offer guidance on research 723 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: and development funding. And guys, we know how not to 724 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: interject too much, because we know how confusing it can 725 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: be to hear these very long, dry names of committees. 726 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: But part of this, part of all this restructuring you 727 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: hear about and all these names, it comes because they 728 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: were desperately trying to find the best way to approach 729 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: this problem. Uh, simply because can you imagine. Of course 730 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: there were, of course there were agents from what would 731 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: become the Allies in in Germany at the time. However, 732 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 1: the level of access they had was no guarantee. The 733 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: only way to be there was, the only way to 734 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 1: know that you would not be the victim of a 735 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: nuclear bomb or an atomic weapon was to be first 736 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: past the post. So this stuff is I mean, Jonathan, 737 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: there were probably some egos involved. No, no, there are 738 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: tons of egod but I think I think the I 739 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: think the main thing to remember is that although we 740 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: hear all these dry names. What they're really doing is 741 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: desperately and it does that work correctly, Desperately trying to 742 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,320 Speaker 1: find the way to get massive amounts of funding because 743 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 1: they already know it's going to be an expensive service. 744 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: Well that and and at this stage in we're still 745 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: talking theory, we're still we're still saying that they're saying, 746 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,080 Speaker 1: if such a thing as possible, you to thirty five 747 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: and plutonium are our best bets that we can't guarantee 748 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: it's possible. If Yeah, and that's the thing is that 749 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: you've got that's why you have all this research and 750 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: development going in. And they're going through multiple lines of inquiry, 751 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,359 Speaker 1: right because they don't want to say, well, let's just 752 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: look at one and hope that that is going to 753 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: work out. There's no let's look at all of them 754 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: and find out which ones are the most promising and 755 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 1: concentrate on those. So, uh so, Conan is head of 756 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: this board that's going to look at these different um 757 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: proposals and decide which ones are the ones most the 758 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: most warrant additional funding. So if you are the head 759 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: of a research department it's a Columbia university, you're more 760 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 1: likely to receive funding than if you're some yahoo in 761 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: your backyard saying if I smack these two rocks together, 762 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: sparks fly. So that's the important part that this is 763 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: all about. Like the goal here is pushing forward this research. 764 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,920 Speaker 1: So under this new organization, the Uranium Committee becomes the 765 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: Office of Scientific Research and Development Section on Uranium. And 766 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: that's a really long name and they recognized it, so 767 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: they code named it S one. So as one becomes 768 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: this specific committee that's looking at uranium research, can it 769 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,399 Speaker 1: be used as a way of making a weapon? July 770 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,400 Speaker 1: a group in Britain's National Defense Research Committee which was 771 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: code named MAUD in a U d uh. They they 772 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: their whole purpose was again to look and see if 773 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon could be practical. They submitted a report that, 774 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: based upon their calculations, you could use tens of you 775 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: two thirty five to create an enormously destructive bomb and 776 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: that could be dropped by existing aircraft of the time 777 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: and it would probably be two years out in development, 778 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: like within two years of concentrate development, such a bomb 779 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: could be built. So by n Britain shares this report 780 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: with America, and because Britain recognizes that America has an 781 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: enormous resource in scientific expertise. So that report specifically recommended 782 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: using gaseous diffusion to separate you two thirty five from 783 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,279 Speaker 1: you two thirty eight and outright dismisses the idea of 784 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: using plutonium. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of this 785 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,800 Speaker 1: text off classic episode right after we take this break. 786 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: So the Brits say, you should use to thirty five, 787 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,360 Speaker 1: you should use gaseous diffusion to get your two thirty 788 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: five from two thirty eight, and forget about plutonium. It's 789 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: a dead end. That was their recommendation. So meanwhile you 790 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: got fair Me, who becomes the head of theoretical studies 791 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: at the Ranium Committee. And keep in mind fair Me 792 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: is the plutonium guy. Yeah, so there when you say 793 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: there are probably egos involved, yes there were, And there 794 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 1: were people who were absolutely convinced that their approach was 795 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,839 Speaker 1: the one that was going to be the most economical, 796 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,720 Speaker 1: the most efficient, the most scientifically sound. So in these arguments, 797 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,799 Speaker 1: do you think there are a lot of those you 798 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: fools moments? You fuse ye all be uh in dramatic 799 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 1: like style? Uh dialects? Well, not one. In October, Bush 800 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,200 Speaker 1: meets with Roosevelt to discuss the state of research. He 801 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 1: receives instruction from Roosevelt to continue research and development, but 802 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 1: it was expressly told don't build a bomb until I 803 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 1: tell you to, which was fine because they were at 804 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: least a few years away from being able to build 805 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 1: one in the first place, even under ideal situation. November 806 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: six one, Arthur Compton reports that, based on his calculations, 807 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: a critical mass of YouTube you two between two and 808 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,279 Speaker 1: one rams would produce a powerful fission bomb uh and 809 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,280 Speaker 1: could be created with an investment of around fifty million 810 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,160 Speaker 1: to a hundred million dollars in isotopes separation technologies, which 811 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: turned out to be crazy optimistic. Yeah, they were low 812 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 1: ba Yeah. So obviously the Brits come up with ten 813 00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: kilograms and Arthur Compton's and that's probably gonna be somewhere 814 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: between you in a hundred. It's a slightly larger range. 815 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: December seven, nineteen for one very important day in World 816 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: War two, that was the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It's 817 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,359 Speaker 1: when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor that brings the United 818 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: States into World War two and sets this all on 819 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: an even faster track than it was before. So January 820 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: nineteenth ninety two, Roosevelt gives Vanavar Bush to go ahead 821 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: to pursue the development of an atomic bomb. So we've 822 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,719 Speaker 1: gone from keep on researching this to see if it's 823 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,319 Speaker 1: possible to build one of these, keeping in mind that 824 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: we're still working in the realm of theory. Yeah, and 825 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: the but the funding flight gates were open. They said, uh, 826 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 1: no more um figuring out how to do it now, 827 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,319 Speaker 1: that just becomes a step in my mandate to you 828 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,720 Speaker 1: to give me a working atomic bomb. And they form 829 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,759 Speaker 1: what is called the Top Policy Committee, which was led 830 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: by Vanavar Bush. They also had Vice President Henry A. Wallace. 831 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,239 Speaker 1: James Knitt was part of it. Henry L. Stimpson, who 832 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,359 Speaker 1: is the Secretary of War, was part of it, and 833 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 1: General George C. Marshall, who was Chief of Staff at 834 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,000 Speaker 1: the Army, was part of it. And the Top Policy 835 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:17,960 Speaker 1: Group decided to pursue five strategies, four different isotope isolation 836 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:23,360 Speaker 1: methods and the use of plutonium as the five different 837 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: methods of potentially creating an atomic bomb. The reason they 838 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: decided to look at five again was because none of 839 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,880 Speaker 1: the five had so far emerged as the clear superior method. 840 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,640 Speaker 1: So because they didn't know, they said, well, we would 841 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: rather go ahead and have all these different groups, all 842 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: of which have brilliant engineers and physicists attached to them, 843 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,359 Speaker 1: to independently work on this stuff. They're motivated by one. 844 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,959 Speaker 1: Many of them come from Europe and they see what's 845 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 1: going on in World War two too. Many of them 846 00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 1: have egos, and they want to prove that their method 847 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,480 Speaker 1: is the right one, and three they're they're genuinely interested 848 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:07,360 Speaker 1: in the science. So March of nineteen forty two, UH, Lawrence, 849 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: the fellow who ran the cyclotron and Berkeley, pursues the 850 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:16,720 Speaker 1: electromagnetic isotope separation method using a cyclotron as a mass spectrometer, 851 00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,280 Speaker 1: and he's so successful that vanavar Bush sends another message 852 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,359 Speaker 1: to Roosevelt saying, Hey, if this pans out, we might 853 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 1: be able to have an atomic bomb as early as 854 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,680 Speaker 1: nineteen forty four. That would turn out to be optimistic. Uh. 855 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,720 Speaker 1: In April nineteen forty two, Arthur Compton, who was guiding 856 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: research into plutonium. So we got Lawrence with electromagnetic isotope isolation. 857 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: Now we've got Compton who's looking into plutonium. He's funding 858 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,359 Speaker 1: the work of j. Robert Oppenheimer at Berkeley, who may 859 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,000 Speaker 1: be familiar to some of you, especially if you've ever 860 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: checked out of our shows. Yeah, Oppenheimer comes up a lot. 861 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean, every single person that I'm mentioning here could 862 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,640 Speaker 1: warrant an entire episode and stuff you missed a history class. 863 00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure it has covered many of them in the past. 864 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:09,080 Speaker 1: So Oppenheimer and Fermi also gets funding from Arthur Compton. 865 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: He says, all right for me, he's got a pile, 866 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,320 Speaker 1: a nuclear pile he's working with at Columbia University. Also 867 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,200 Speaker 1: funds Eugene Wigner's theoretical work at Princeton. Now over at 868 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,760 Speaker 1: the University of Chicago, Compton secured some space to create 869 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:29,840 Speaker 1: his own uranium and graphite nuclear pile. By securing some space, 870 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:35,400 Speaker 1: I mean he converted a racketball court underneath the grandstand 871 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 1: at stag Field at the University of Chicago into a 872 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,400 Speaker 1: nuclear pile. This, by the way, would scare the heck 873 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,680 Speaker 1: out of everybody later on, because he didn't bother to 874 00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,759 Speaker 1: tell anyone that that's what he was doing. Well, well, well, 875 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,600 Speaker 1: let us remember this was a top secret project. And also, 876 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,400 Speaker 1: if we're talking, I don't know why my voice was 877 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,880 Speaker 1: And also if we're if we're talking about public safety, 878 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 1: then you know, the dangerous rationalization people can always make 879 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: is what is the safety of the people above in 880 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,640 Speaker 1: a grandstand or even the University of Chicago compared to 881 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,480 Speaker 1: the safety of the world. But what I'm telling that 882 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,280 Speaker 1: he was a maverick, Well, I tell you now uh 883 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,000 Speaker 1: he uh into in his defense, this approach that he 884 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,080 Speaker 1: was using, which was very similar to Faremi's approach, was 885 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,880 Speaker 1: low energy. It was not something that was perceived to 886 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: have risk of it becoming a runaway reaction. It was 887 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,680 Speaker 1: it was more again to study the actual physics involved 888 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,520 Speaker 1: to better understand it, and posed very little threat to 889 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,280 Speaker 1: the people of Chicago. Using the design that he used. 890 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,360 Speaker 1: He wasn't using it. He was using a design that 891 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:53,040 Speaker 1: didn't require a cooling system or a shield because he 892 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,880 Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't the super high energy type of reactions 893 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,000 Speaker 1: that he was he was looking into. Two Compton Arthur 894 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,359 Speaker 1: Compton asks J. Robert Oppenheimer to take over research into 895 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,200 Speaker 1: fast neutron interactions to determine the necessary conditions for a 896 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,360 Speaker 1: critical mass to explode. So Oppenheimer takes on that work. 897 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,800 Speaker 1: Then of our Bush asks James Conant, the guy from Harvard, 898 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 1: for recommendations on how to proceed, and the S one 899 00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,640 Speaker 1: Leadership Committee decides that instead of focusing on one area 900 00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,200 Speaker 1: of research, all of them still have to be funded 901 00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 1: and accelerated. They still weren't certain which of these were 902 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,440 Speaker 1: going to end up being successful. Is still too early, 903 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,480 Speaker 1: so they say, well, we can't, we can't pull the 904 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,080 Speaker 1: trigger on one of these yet, we still have to 905 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,360 Speaker 1: keep on going. And in June two, the Army's involvement 906 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,600 Speaker 1: in the project, uh really picks up. You have a 907 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,400 Speaker 1: guy named Colonel James C. Marshall come into the picture. 908 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,160 Speaker 1: So James C. Marshall, he's in charge of the Army 909 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,200 Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers involvement in this project, and the Army 910 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,680 Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers their main job was to secure sites 911 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:02,120 Speaker 1: that they could then use to build facilities on to 912 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,080 Speaker 1: test out the theory that was being generated in these 913 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:12,160 Speaker 1: various camps. So in your normal operations, if there's not 914 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,719 Speaker 1: a war going on, what you would typically do is 915 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: you have the research and development work that is starting 916 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,240 Speaker 1: to be promising. You would build a pilot plant that 917 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,080 Speaker 1: would test these things out and it would be designed 918 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,400 Speaker 1: in such a way that you can make rapid changes 919 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,560 Speaker 1: to the plants design in order to best fit whatever 920 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,080 Speaker 1: the process. Yeah, exactly, so you might say, oh, it 921 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,479 Speaker 1: turns out that this design we came up with isn't 922 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,040 Speaker 1: the best one, we should change it to this. A 923 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,360 Speaker 1: pilot plant is the kind where you would be able 924 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 1: to do that. Then once you figured out what was 925 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: the best approach, you could build a full production facility, right. Yeah. 926 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,840 Speaker 1: And at this time I believe the US Army Corps 927 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:57,400 Speaker 1: of Engineers was based in New York. Yeah. The headquarters, 928 00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,880 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a temporary headquarters, was on 929 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,960 Speaker 1: Broadway in Manhattan, because you want to keep it locating. Yeah, 930 00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,080 Speaker 1: so they called it the Manhattan Engineering District, or sometimes 931 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: just the Manhattan District and sometimes just Manhattan. And that, 932 00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,959 Speaker 1: in fact, is where the Manhattan Project gets its name. 933 00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: It gets his name from James C. Marshall's headquarters in Manhattan. 934 00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,520 Speaker 1: And he was really he was on the phone calling 935 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,880 Speaker 1: up potential land, you know, landowners who could potentially sell 936 00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,479 Speaker 1: him the land necessary from the build these facilities. And 937 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,200 Speaker 1: the crazy thing here is the Army Corps of Engineers 938 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,640 Speaker 1: and and these scientists are essentially skipping the pilot stage. 939 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 1: They're going straight from well, we're pretty sure this is 940 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,120 Speaker 1: the way it's gonna work to let's build this facility 941 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,000 Speaker 1: to do it. And by skipping the pilot stage it 942 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,720 Speaker 1: causes huge headaches down the line. But at the same 943 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,880 Speaker 1: time they said, well, we don't have the luxury of 944 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,960 Speaker 1: time to go the scientifically responsible routes, so we have 945 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,680 Speaker 1: to do it this way. So, uh we get the 946 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 1: Manhattan Project. Technical the project has a different name. The 947 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,920 Speaker 1: the official code name for the project, because it's super secret, y'all. 948 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,120 Speaker 1: Is the Development of Substitute Metals or sometimes the development 949 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,960 Speaker 1: of substitute materials depending upon which citation you're reading, or 950 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 1: d s M. That's the official code name, but everyone 951 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,800 Speaker 1: calls it the Manhattan Project. Uh So we are now 952 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,200 Speaker 1: at the point where the Manhattan Project comes into being, 953 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,280 Speaker 1: James C. Marshall being in charge of it, kind of 954 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,400 Speaker 1: being an administrator to make sure that the scientists are 955 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,960 Speaker 1: getting the resources they need. And this leads us to 956 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,080 Speaker 1: the conclusion of this episode so that in our next 957 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,520 Speaker 1: episode we can focus specifically on what happens with the 958 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,560 Speaker 1: Manhattan Project. You're going to have a whole list of 959 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,600 Speaker 1: new names. This is really just to prepare you in 960 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,200 Speaker 1: case you ever decide to read the Game of Throne series, 961 00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,720 Speaker 1: so that way you know how to handle all these 962 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:57,800 Speaker 1: different characters, because it's kind of similar in that respect. Um. So, Ben, 963 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about like super top secret stuff 964 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,760 Speaker 1: in the next episode. Keeping in mind the Manhattan Project 965 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,320 Speaker 1: was a secret from almost everybody from two when it 966 01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:16,360 Speaker 1: came into existence to mid nine after the bomb has 967 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:22,280 Speaker 1: dropped on Hiroshima. So this is when it comes to 968 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,080 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. This is it. 969 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:30,240 Speaker 1: You talk about massive government conspiracy. It doesn't get much 970 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 1: bigger than this. We're talking a hundred thirty thousand people 971 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,439 Speaker 1: or thereabouts employed in somewhere or another, most of whom 972 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,400 Speaker 1: had no idea what they were contributing to. Right, Yeah, 973 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,720 Speaker 1: this is uh, this is bigger than a you know, 974 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,160 Speaker 1: this is something that we talked about our previous fifty 975 01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: one podcast. I'm I'm excited. Yeah, so let's see. I 976 01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,320 Speaker 1: guess this will be a little bit of a cliffhanger 977 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,880 Speaker 1: for the listeners. Yeah, so you guys have to tune 978 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,520 Speaker 1: in next week, same bad time, same bad channel. You know, 979 01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: it's always weird to talk about enjoying an episode that's 980 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,760 Speaker 1: about the technology that is so incredibly destructive, but I 981 01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,240 Speaker 1: hope you learn something, and of course next week we 982 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,720 Speaker 1: will continue the discussion about the Manhattan Project. If you 983 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,600 Speaker 1: have suggestions for topics I should cover in future episodes 984 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,080 Speaker 1: of tech Stuff, please reach out and let me know. 985 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,120 Speaker 1: The best way to do that is on Twitter. To 986 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,440 Speaker 1: handle for the show is tech Stuff hs W and 987 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:32,400 Speaker 1: I'll talk to you again really soon, y. Tech Stuff 988 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,640 Speaker 1: is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from 989 01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,440 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 990 01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.