1 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: For years, China's uber rich gen zs moved seamlessly between 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: the elite societies of the East and West. 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: So in China people call them four dye, which is 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: second generation rich if you just translate it literally. 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: Selina Shu was Bloomberg's reporter for investing. 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: And these scions of the wealthy, these four Dyes, they're 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 2: educated in the West, they grew up all around the world. 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 2: They're fluent in multiple languages, and they moved very fluently 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 2: between communists China and Otho, the intellectual cradle off the West. 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: So when you combine all these factors together, you have 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: a very very small pool of very intelligent, cosmopolitan, open 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: minded young people with extremely abundant resources. So they're kind 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: of like the top one percent of the one percent. 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: These kids of China's top one percent, the children of 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: casino mobiles, real estate tycoons, and billionaires. They have been 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: playing a prizing role in building goodwill and mutual trust 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: between China and the rest of the world. But lately, 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: something very different is happening with this group of young 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: and rich Chinese. They're leaving jobs and opportunities in the 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: US to come home to China. 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: A lot of them are choosing to gravitate home, throw 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: their lots in with Beijing, even if it means sometimes 23 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: they have to navigate revus culture shock or deal with 24 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: the risk of perhaps sudden crackdowns on the affluent or 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: on sudden sectus in society. 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg, I'm wanha and this is the big take 27 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: today on the show Uber Rich. Young Chinese are returning 28 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: home and taking their family fortunes with them. Why and 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: how that's affecting US China relations. So when we're talking 30 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: about the gen zs of China, we're talking about people 31 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: who are mostly born between the late nineteen nineties and 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: through the early two thousands. It was a time when 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: US China relations were very different. Here's President George W. 34 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: Bush in two thousand and six. Is the issue of 35 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: the future in many ways is China, and I would 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: call our relationship with China very positive and complex. 37 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: So those were the heydays of the US China relationship. 38 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: That was when the world was very open to globalization. 39 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: There was a lot of trade, a lot of people 40 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: to people. 41 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: Exchanges, Selina says. Because these young people grew up in 42 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: a time of openness between the two countries, they had 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: a unique opportunity to help strengthen the ties between the 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: US and China. One of the ways they did that 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: was on college campuses in the United States and one 46 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: school especially stood out. 47 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: So an example I think of this is the Hubboit 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: College China Forum. So for years like this forum has 49 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: kind of brought business mogul experts leaders of their field 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: to Harvard University and kind of brought them from both 51 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: the US China, rest of the world. And he had 52 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: all these people mixed together. 53 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: And gassing Zeno and shall all that dat. 54 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: So some of the past guests included people like Jack 55 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: Ma also legend from Salemi Blackstone's Stephen Schwartzman Bridgewater as 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: Ray Dalia, so really a kind of very very interesting 57 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: mix from both countries. They were mostly invited by a 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: very small group of student organizers, some of whom were 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: the children of Chinese billionaires or even government officials. So 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: the moneyed and the powerful between the world's two largest economies, 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: and they were hopped out together every April in person 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: and a very lively exchange of ideas. So that kind 63 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: of demonstrated Walf's power to bridge geopolitical rips. 64 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: With this April, the stage of the Harvard China Forum 65 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: looked very. 66 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: Different in this year is Hobatt College China Farm. In 67 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: April twenty twenty three, only a handful of executives from 68 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: mainland China came in person to the forum in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: Just a few years back, the ballroom at Harvard was 70 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: packed and it was an annual form that was not 71 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: to be missed by elite business leaders in the US 72 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: and China. And as for the wealthy students who historically 73 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: had helped make this forum possible. 74 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: I think a lot of them are also choosing a 75 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: very different path that they're gravitating home instead of staying 76 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: in the US. 77 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And why is it that that they are going home? 78 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: I mean, are the tensions so bad that they feel 79 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: like they have to leave the US? 80 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: So Joe, political tensions is one factor. There's also the 81 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: uncertainty of the global economy. There's increased hostility abroad, increased 82 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: discrimination to US. A lot of Chinese nationals because of 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: some of the policy decisions that the Chinese government has 84 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: made during COVID and after. So if you look at 85 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: the number of Chinese students in US universities as of 86 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: January this year, as plummeted nearly thirty percent from twenty twenty, 87 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: So a lot of these Chinese students just don't want 88 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: to come to America anymore. 89 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: For China's part, the country has its arms wide open 90 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: to welcome these returnees. They're some of the best and 91 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: the brightest of this generation that are now just starting 92 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: their careers, and they're coming back with sought after overseas experience. 93 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: Even China state media have written about them in glowing reports. 94 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: More Chinese students are coming back to China instead of 95 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: staying in the States. 96 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: China's brain drain is getting reversed. 97 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: We've also seen a huge talent deficit in China for 98 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: many of the high tech sectors that they're trying to pursue, 99 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: including obviously semiconductors, quantum computing, and other very high skilled 100 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: service sectors. So sea turtles, as what Chinese people call 101 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: these retorneyes, usually are able to offer some kind of 102 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: differentiation in scales that include stuff like more hands on 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: experiences and more global outlook our resources and connections to 104 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: people abroad. 105 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: But it's not just about talent returning to help start 106 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: up businesses in important industries. A lot of these gen 107 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,559 Speaker 1: zs are also bringing money their family fortunes back into 108 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: China after the break. How will the returning mega wealthy 109 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: impact China's economy, We'll hear from one These young and 110 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: rich Chinese are not just coming home to the mainland, 111 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: They're taking their money with them, and Selena says this 112 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: movement of capital flowing back to China could have big impact. 113 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: Chinese tycoons, you know, the ones who built some of 114 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: the world's biggest enterprises. As the nation open up to capitalism, 115 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: these people are sitting on almost one point one trillion 116 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: of cumulative wealth that they're as will likely control in 117 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 2: the future. So the majority of these people, these gen 118 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: zs are interested in entrepreneurship in China, are in investing 119 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: Vibe family offices, sometimes in the Greater Age Pacific region 120 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: in places like Singapore or Hong Kong, rather than in 121 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 2: the West. 122 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: These wealthy gen zs, the top one percent of a 123 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: very exclusive club, are coming home with money and valued skills, 124 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: and they're bucking a trend at home. Many middle class 125 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: Chinese are concerned about China's economic future. They fear that 126 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: President Hijinping's common prosperity policy might take away the wealth 127 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: they've built. Many are moving with their money to places 128 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: like Australia and the United States. So the capital and 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: talent those uber rich gen zs are bringing back into 130 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: China comes at a critical time for the country. 131 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. So one example would be Alice Hoe. So she's 132 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: the youngest daughter of Stanley Ho, the casino Magnet and Macau. 133 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: So she has a very very cosmopolitan upbringing. She grew 134 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: up in Hong Kong, she went to boarding school in 135 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: the UK, she did High University and MIT, and then 136 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: later went to Shanghai Universe for the Stutsman Scholarship. So 137 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: she kind of kind of represents this very uh the 138 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: epitome kind of of the cosmopolitan not bringing these people 139 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: have I love to rich cultures, to cultures, region to 140 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: region and people to people and book. 141 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: That's Alice Hoe speaking at a conference in Reat, Saudi 142 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: Arabia in October. 143 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: And she's chosen after graduation to live on the mainline 144 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: for the first time in her life. So she's based 145 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: in Beijing right now, and she is the chief youth 146 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: officer of this climate advocacy group called the Global Alliance 147 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: of Universities and Climate Allow Me to introduce the Climax 148 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: campaign where young people will come together. So you can 149 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 2: kind of see her flying around all over the world 150 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: to climate conferences, including COP twenty seven, and she's done 151 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: a lot of work in youth at vocacy. You know, 152 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: she doesn't talk about jee politics at all, so I 153 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: think for her, climate advocacy is something that rises above 154 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: geopolitical tensions. 155 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: So, Selena, we've now got these young, super rich Chinese 156 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: coming back to the main life, even before they've started 157 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: careers in the US. What are the consequences of that? 158 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 2: The world's getting first and foremost more estranged to China, 159 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: a lot less contact and understanding compared to previous generations. Ironically, 160 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 2: even though you know now travel globalization is obviously more advanced. 161 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: And secondly, I think and a more important impact is 162 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: that Chinese have a more negative image of America, especially 163 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: young Chinese, with the notable exception of Chinese students who've 164 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 2: actually studied abroad America, so everyone else generally has more 165 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: anti American stands. And that's really worrying because on the 166 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: American side, with few and a few Chinese students studying 167 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 2: there and deciding to live there and take their roots 168 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: there you kind of see a growing lack of understanding, 169 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: and that's going to be a huge issue for how 170 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: Chinese society is going to function and what kind of 171 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: domestic reactions they have to geopolitics globally. 172 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: Selena, I like to pull the lens back a little bit. Now, 173 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: there was a time when interest in China among American 174 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: students was really high. The Chinese government even funded more 175 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: than one hundred of these Confucius institutes at US universities 176 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: to teach Mandarin and Chinese culture, and nearly all of 177 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: those institutes have now closed. Are we also seeing waning 178 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: interest of China in the US. 179 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: Unfortunately we are. So it's quite concerning because this trend 180 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: is not just happening, you know, in the US, but 181 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: also in China. So as a bilateral pattern. Years ago, 182 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: you could see people in America wanting to learn Chinese. 183 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: You know, there are a lot of people traveling to China, 184 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: moving to China, doing a grad trip in China after college. 185 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 2: I haven't worked there permanently. So they have helped to 186 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 2: bridge the two nations just as much as their Chinese 187 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: counterparts have. But now the numbers are really just dwindling. 188 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: A decade ago, there were nearly fifteen thousand US students 189 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: in China. Today there are only three hundred and fifty 190 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: those numbers from the State Department. It's like a ninety 191 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: eight percent. 192 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: Draw, and that could make it tough to train the 193 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: next generation of diplomat. 194 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: We need to have the next generation of China experts 195 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: for our entire government, and of course, the declining number 196 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: of American students in China makes the US something of 197 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: a black box to many ordinary Chinese too. Exactly, that's 198 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: it for today's show. This episode was produced by Young Young. 199 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: Blake Maples is our sound engineer. Caitlin Kenny is our editor. 200 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: Thanks to Marufo Hossein for production help. Sage Bauman is 201 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of podcast. Thanks for listening.