Speaker 1: The volume. Hi, everybody, Congratulations to the Denver Nuggets size coaching,
Speaker 1: shot making, though not great on that tonight? Are the
Speaker 1: new champions getting rid of the Miami heat? Pesky, gritty,
Speaker 1: tough and not talented enough? Jason timph podcast Hoops Tonight
Speaker 1: is joining us for a forty five minute breakdown, and
Speaker 1: I think you'll enjoy it. We go round and round.
Speaker 1: At the end of it, we talk about what Miami
Speaker 1: has to do and the Celtics have to do. Is
Speaker 1: this team beatable? Let's head to forty five minutes breaking
Speaker 1: down the Nuggets championship season.
Speaker 2: Colin, does that ever get old for you watching a
Speaker 2: team hoist the trophy?
Speaker 1: No, you know, tension makes movies and sports better. It
Speaker 1: was sloppy. I mean Denver was really tight. Even Mike
Speaker 1: Malone at one point said it were tight. I mean
Speaker 1: they couldn't hit free throws, they couldn't hit threes, but
Speaker 1: you know what, they hit their gimmes. You know they're
Speaker 1: they're good in the paint. I thought Michael Porter redeemed
Speaker 1: himself with a couple of big moments. And I also thought,
Speaker 1: you can say that, you know, Denver's not this defensively.
Speaker 1: I thought they were pretty good in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: I thought they were relentless. I thought they were kind
Speaker 1: of dictating, kind of pushing running Miami off the line,
Speaker 1: no cheap baskets, made everybody work for everything. Like you know,
Speaker 1: they always offensive talent and skilled defenses effort. Like Denver
Speaker 1: can be good defensively. They're so good offensively, they don't
Speaker 1: have to be great defensively. But on a night when
Speaker 1: they couldn't hit anything, I thought their defense in the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter was really strong.
Speaker 3: They wrote to a really high level.
Speaker 2: Was funny. I was digging into this coming into tonight, obviously,
Speaker 2: as I kind of expected, as I'm sure you did
Speaker 2: as well, for Denver to hoist the trophy. And one
Speaker 2: of the biggest story lines is this is basically the
Speaker 2: first non defending champion in decades to win the title
Speaker 2: without a top ten defense in the regular season. It's
Speaker 2: a significant achievement. It's kind of a break of the mold,
Speaker 2: so to speak. But what's interesting is as you dive
Speaker 2: into it, their defense has been excellent in this postseason run.
Speaker 2: Coming into tonight, their defensive rating in the postseason was
Speaker 2: only about two points worse than Golden State last year,
Speaker 2: who was an outstanding defense during the regular season and
Speaker 2: continued to be so during the postseason. Now, some of it,
Speaker 2: I do think it was about matchups, And this is
Speaker 2: kind of the beauty of basketball, is like it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily how great of a defense you are in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: It's how well can you guard the Lakers, how well
Speaker 2: can you guard Miami? How well can you guard Phoenix.
Speaker 2: And with those particular teams, you know, Phoenix didn't quite
Speaker 2: have the amount of rim pressure they needed. The Lakers
Speaker 2: didn't quite have the amount of off ball shooting they needed.
Speaker 2: Miami had all the off ball shooting in the world,
Speaker 2: but they didn't have the real high level shot creation
Speaker 2: that they needed. And that's the thing is like, again
Speaker 2: in the NBA, you don't have to be It's not
Speaker 2: about being that great defense in the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 2: It's about your specific matchup. And they took it very
Speaker 2: seriously in this particular postseason run. Mike Malone harped on
Speaker 2: it constantly. They all talked about it constantly after that game,
Speaker 2: too ugly loss to Miami. And you know what's interesting
Speaker 2: is they were missing threes like crazy. This was a
Speaker 2: classic Eric spolsure game. They ran about forty possessions of
Speaker 2: zone in the first two games of the series, then
Speaker 2: almost completely abandoned it in games three and four, and
Speaker 2: then that was almost all they did tonight, and it
Speaker 2: did a great job of disrupting Denver's rhythm, and they
Speaker 2: were missing a lot of open shots. And what's interesting
Speaker 2: in basketball is you can't control shot result, Like if
Speaker 2: you're getting good looks, you fire away and you just
Speaker 2: hope they go in right, But you can control the
Speaker 2: defensive end of the four. And I thought their second
Speaker 2: half was probably their best stretch of defense in this
Speaker 2: entire postseason. And hell, they had Jimmy Butler pump baking
Speaker 2: at ghosts and not wanting to shoot the basketball, bamina
Speaker 2: by missing everything around the paint. It was their defense
Speaker 2: that got it done. And that's what I enjoyed about it,
Speaker 2: is like, at the end of the day, it was
Speaker 2: some of the traditional things that ended up winning in
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they went from a good team to
Speaker 1: a very good team. And you wonder when you look
Speaker 1: at Jokic and Jamal Murray's playmaking ability on top of
Speaker 1: the points, are they potentially a great team? You know,
Speaker 1: Murray is a scorer and Jokich is a score and playmaker.
Speaker 1: That's a very good team. But when Murray adds the element, oh,
Speaker 1: I can make plays for others along with Jokic, Gordon
Speaker 1: an elite defensive team all time, great size, Then you
Speaker 1: start going, wow, they got a lot of things here,
Speaker 1: like Pippen. You know, Michael wasn't a playmaker, he was
Speaker 1: a great score. Pippen wasn't a playmaker, he was a
Speaker 1: great defender. You know, like Chicago didn't have a lot
Speaker 1: of that hybrid stuff where you could do both. Right,
Speaker 1: even Shaq and Kobe known as score. So Jokich and
Speaker 1: Murray both become ten plus assist guys.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The outther thing is when you're a really great team,
Speaker 1: you not only win championships, but you often change the game.
Speaker 1: The Warriors changed the game Denver. Now with their length,
Speaker 1: are they putting it into small ball? You can't really
Speaker 1: play small ball with them. You have to have an
Speaker 1: enormously successful shooting night. They're just too long, they're just
Speaker 1: too big. And I think to myself, great teams not
Speaker 1: only win. The Kansas City Chiefs not only surpassed New England,
Speaker 1: they've made that sort of defense first game. That kind
Speaker 1: of game doesn't match up with Kansas City. You just
Speaker 1: can't stop Kansas City. If you give them twelve possessions,
Speaker 1: you just can't. And so not only is Kansas City
Speaker 1: now better than New England, they've kind of ended the
Speaker 1: idea of ball control because Mahomes needs their teen seconds
Speaker 1: and he can drive down the field. And I think
Speaker 1: what Denver's doing? Are they ending small ball? Do we
Speaker 1: look at now Miami's a pretty small team of bands
Speaker 1: done on the floor. Golden State, they just don't match up.
Speaker 1: They just can't get anything down low. And I also
Speaker 1: think it was a throwback series. Denver's very much points
Speaker 1: in the paint. A lot of guys hitting twos. They
Speaker 1: won a championship on a night they couldn't hit free
Speaker 1: throws or threes. I kind of like the old school stuff.
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, people are going to watch them,
Speaker 1: and I think people are going to say, okay, the
Speaker 1: small ball. Remember Houston for years chased the Warriors small
Speaker 1: ball and they could never win. They were shooting thirty,
Speaker 1: forty fifty threes. You sort of look at Denver and think, oh,
Speaker 1: there is another way length twos playmakers. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I find Denver captivating to watch. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: watching a little seventies and eighties and twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm watching a.
Speaker 3: Little of both.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they represent some proven methods that win in the
Speaker 2: NBA and some new methods, you know. And what's interesting
Speaker 2: is Golden State last year was kind of a small team.
Speaker 2: But if you look back, like size has been winning
Speaker 2: in the NBA lately, Like this Denver team, gigantic, that
Speaker 2: Milwaukee Bucks team in twenty one, gigantic, that Lakers team
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, gigantic, that Toronto Rafters team in twenty nineteen. Massive,
Speaker 2: even that Warriors team with Kevin Durant. When you really
Speaker 2: put Kevin Durant with Andre Gudala and Raymond Green on
Speaker 2: that front line, they were massive. They They're just you
Speaker 2: have to win with size in the NBA. And what
Speaker 2: was so interesting with this particular Denver team, and this
Speaker 2: is what actually your Kansas City Chiefs reference kind of
Speaker 2: makes sense to me. Like I can't tell you how
Speaker 2: many times over the years as a tourd Cowboys fan,
Speaker 2: I'd be watching, like Aaron Rodgers put together these long
Speaker 2: drawn out drives and then it just felt like the
Speaker 2: cowboy offense could never get in a rhythm, and the
Speaker 2: three and out is almost just as much of a
Speaker 2: product of the rhythm as it is the defense, just
Speaker 2: because there's a flow to football in the same way
Speaker 2: there's a flow to basketball, and it's when you see
Speaker 2: a team that's going to get a million offensive rebounds
Speaker 2: and they're going to score consistently, get back in transition
Speaker 2: and force you to attack their set defense. Sometimes Denver's
Speaker 2: best defense is their offense, just by the way they
Speaker 2: beat you up on the interior of the other end
Speaker 2: of the floor. I do not one of the one
Speaker 2: of the weird subplots of this series is Jimmy Butler
Speaker 2: and bam Adebayo could not make a shot in the
Speaker 2: paint to save their life.
Speaker 3: Like they were.
Speaker 2: They were awful, awful shooting inside the paint in this series,
Speaker 2: and a big part of that is those dudes are
Speaker 2: banging with Aaron Gordon into Kola jokischall series and it
Speaker 2: just wears on you. And so that's a big part
Speaker 2: of their attack. And then as you go down the roster,
Speaker 2: you mentioned Jamal Murray, and that's such an important part.
Speaker 2: His playmaking has been a revelation. In this playoff run.
Speaker 2: He's averaging over seven assists a game. That means Jo
Speaker 2: Kitchen Murray are giving you almost twenty assists a game. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then you've got the Murray, the KCP, Michael Porter
Speaker 2: Junior element, in the Aaron Gordon element. All these guys
Speaker 2: are coming back. This to me feels like a team
Speaker 2: that could just as easily make four or five consecutive
Speaker 2: Western Conference finals and win multiple championships.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: I said this on the air today on Fox. I
Speaker 1: said sixteen teams made the playoffs. Fifteen either lost or
Speaker 1: were taxed, got blown out in a couple of games.
Speaker 1: Except Denver. I mean Denver was kind of like that Laker,
Speaker 1: that Kobe Shack first title. It's like, even when they
Speaker 1: didn't play well, they won. I mean Denver didn't play
Speaker 1: well tonight. And one there's an old saying years ago,
Speaker 1: I remember Pete Carroll saying this is when the Seahawks
Speaker 1: won a championship.
Speaker 3: He said, you had.
Speaker 1: To play so well to beat us. He goes, we
Speaker 1: go back and look at our losses on that Russell
Speaker 1: Wilson championship team, and he goes, I mean the teams
Speaker 1: would play like flawless football, no pedalies, no turnovers. He said,
Speaker 1: it's a great sign, and I think he said this
Speaker 1: before they won the Super Bowl. It's a great sign
Speaker 1: when teams have to play, you know, nearly flawless to
Speaker 1: beat you. And now tonight neither team was flawless. But
Speaker 1: I mean Denver, if you go back, Jason, they rolled,
Speaker 1: they humiliated Minnesota, they swept the Lakers. In fact, you
Speaker 1: can look at it now, Phoenix beat them twice and
Speaker 1: actually a little pushback, not at the end of the series,
Speaker 1: but you look at Phoenix and you think Vogel make
Speaker 1: DeAndre eight and a little better player, better defensively, certainly
Speaker 1: Durant a full season booker, a full season CP three
Speaker 1: probably resigns. They go get somebody on the bench. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying they're going to beat Denver, but you look
Speaker 1: back and it's the one team that made them uncomfortable
Speaker 1: a little bit was Phoenix. Otherwise they hammered people. I
Speaker 1: mean it was it was really you start. I mean,
Speaker 1: the average win in this series after tonight's probably about
Speaker 1: six seven points a game. But when you look at
Speaker 1: how Miami sort of discombobulated, like Milwaukee and made teams
Speaker 1: look Celtics look so bad in the final couple of games,
Speaker 1: then Denver pretty much, which Denver played its worst game
Speaker 1: in a month, and one that's a that's not a
Speaker 1: very good team. That's a great team. Do you have
Speaker 1: some projects around the home, the condo, the town home,
Speaker 1: of the apartment you need done. Whether you're an owner
Speaker 1: or a renter, it doesn't matter. Download the free Angie
Speaker 1: mobile app today or go to Angi dot com. Angie
Speaker 1: is your home for everything home. You can request quotes
Speaker 1: from multiple pros in your area. You can do major
Speaker 1: remodels in the kitchen that's a lot of work, or
Speaker 1: something as small as a leaky faucet. Simplify home project
Speaker 1: stuff you don't have time to do. Just a few
Speaker 1: taps on the Angie app and you'll be on your way.
Speaker 1: It is simplified for you, very competitively priced. These are pros,
Speaker 1: big project or small. You're busy, that's their job. Download
Speaker 1: the free and Gene mobile app today or go to
Speaker 1: Angi dot com. Ang your home for everything home. June
Speaker 1: is championship month in sports, NHL Playoffs, NBA Finals. Now
Speaker 1: you can watch all this stuff on television certainly, but
Speaker 1: there's nothing like live and there's nothing like being there
Speaker 1: in person for last minute amazing deals on the best
Speaker 1: tickets to comedy shows, concerts, and your favorite sport. Check
Speaker 1: out game Time. Download the game Time app right now.
Speaker 1: The redeem code is me Colin Coli in twenty dollars
Speaker 1: twenty bucks off your first purchase. Terms apply. Go out
Speaker 1: and have some on this weekend again. Download the game
Speaker 1: Time app twenty dollars off your first purchase. The redeem
Speaker 1: code is clim Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed at
Speaker 1: game time.
Speaker 2: That becomes an interesting exercise to kind of think about
Speaker 2: what the rest of the league does from here, because
Speaker 2: I think it's going to affect in a bunch of
Speaker 2: different ways. You talked about small ball nine hundred percent agree,
Speaker 2: Like there's just there's no doubt that if you try
Speaker 2: to march into a series against the Denver Nuggets next
Speaker 2: year and you want to play four dudes that are
Speaker 2: below six eight, then you're going to be up against
Speaker 2: it from the standpoint of competing on the glass and
Speaker 2: in the physicality areas of the game. I mean, Miami
Speaker 2: did about as good as you possibly can do because
Speaker 2: of how well coached they are, but even they looked
Speaker 2: physically overwhelmed at times. And look at what ended up
Speaker 2: making most of the pivotal plays at the end of
Speaker 2: this game were offensive rebound putbacks and Jokics just mauling
Speaker 2: dudes around the rim. It was their side that got
Speaker 2: them beat at the end. Now as I look around
Speaker 2: the league, though, like everyone's got to make significant improvements,
Speaker 2: Like I think Phoenix had some real success with pull
Speaker 2: up jump shooting against this Denver team. But they need
Speaker 2: to confront their size issues. That's gonna be something they
Speaker 2: have to confront. Yeah, oh absolutely. And then the Lakers
Speaker 2: ironically were the by far the most successful offense against
Speaker 2: the Nuggets. That was so weird about that series. You
Speaker 2: go in there and you're like, Lakers are the best defense,
Speaker 2: They're gonna be great. Denver cooked La more than they
Speaker 2: cooked any of the other teams, Like it didn't make
Speaker 2: any sense. And then on the offensive end of the
Speaker 2: four we all talked about the Laker offense all season,
Speaker 2: the Lakers were actually the most successful offense against the Nuggets,
Speaker 2: in large part because of Lebron James rim pressure, Ruey
Speaker 2: hot Mura rim pressure. They were actually able to attack
Speaker 2: the paint in a way the Miami Heat couldn't. But
Speaker 2: they have to make so many improvements in terms of
Speaker 2: their perimeter athleticism because guys like Bruce Brown and Jamal
Speaker 2: Murray just absolutely destroyed them, and so all these teams
Speaker 2: have to make significant improvements. You're going to see. I
Speaker 2: think you're going to see a lot of teams get
Speaker 2: really aggressive this offseason because they know they're not good
Speaker 2: to enough yet. And I think you're going to see
Speaker 2: a couple centers get some big paydays that don't make
Speaker 2: a ton of sense, as guys try to throw money
Speaker 2: at an extra body to throw at Jokic. I think
Speaker 2: you're going to see a guy like Dwight Howard back
Speaker 2: in the league. Like it's gonna be this whole summer
Speaker 2: is going to be like how do we deal with
Speaker 2: this team who's bringing all their guys back? And it's
Speaker 2: going to be an interesting chot.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I mean, for years and years the Spurs had Robinson
Speaker 1: and Duncan, and then the Lakers have always had bigs
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, it's it's why Portland goes
Speaker 1: out and drafts of Greg Odin. Right, you sort of
Speaker 1: you start looking around in the league and you're like,
Speaker 1: you know, you see it all the time in all sports.
Speaker 1: Who's in your in the NFL, and when Peyton Manning's
Speaker 1: in your division, everybody drafts edge rushers. Like that's the
Speaker 1: way the sport works. Jokic is just now moving into
Speaker 1: his prime. He's got six more years of it. He's
Speaker 1: in the best shape by the way he's been in
Speaker 1: in his career. So, I mean, if you really go
Speaker 1: back at the end of the year, Jokic I think
Speaker 1: sat five of their last seven games, so they went
Speaker 1: on kind of a losing streak at the end of
Speaker 1: the year.
Speaker 3: Year.
Speaker 1: They're not going to stay regular season. They didn't play starters, right,
Speaker 1: if you take that out, I mean this team, I
Speaker 1: mean trade deadline on. We should have seen it coming.
Speaker 1: They just thump people all the time, home road thump people,
Speaker 1: and it's uh. I gotta tell you, I like new stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm not a rearview mirror guy. I love having a
Speaker 1: new potential dynasty. I don't know if they are, but
Speaker 1: it has the makings of one. I mean when Lebron
Speaker 1: went down to Miami, you felt like, oh, this could
Speaker 1: be special. But d Wade was always a guy that
Speaker 1: hit the floor a lot aged very quickly. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like a running back not many years, and so
Speaker 1: you could see by like year two, it was like
Speaker 1: d Wade wasn't as good on back to back. She
Speaker 1: kind of said there's going to be an expiration date
Speaker 1: pretty quickly on this run. But I look at I
Speaker 1: look at Denver, and I'm like, at least for three
Speaker 1: more years, at least three more handful, because I think
Speaker 1: I think, to be honest, Murray, Jokich, Porter and Gordon
Speaker 1: a right smack dab in the middle of their prime,
Speaker 1: like not near the end of it, like three years
Speaker 1: from now, let's come back and talk about it. Then
Speaker 1: they're closer to the end of it. But this will
Speaker 1: be fun. By the way, I also love KCP Bubble team.
Speaker 1: This team hit a big three in this game.
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 1: I love guys like that. There's every championship team's got
Speaker 1: a guy. I love the KCP. He's had an interesting career.
Speaker 1: He goes to the free throw line ladies, talking to
Speaker 1: all these guys, settle down, settled down, like kcp's like
Speaker 1: telling everybody, Hey, I've been here, so I just nothing.
Speaker 1: I didn't let and by the way we all love Miami,
Speaker 1: but they need Dame, they need a score, they need
Speaker 1: another player. So the good news for Miami is they lost,
Speaker 1: they were overwhelmed, but you know exactly what they need.
Speaker 1: They need a score.
Speaker 2: From the standpoint of Denver in a potential dynasty, the
Speaker 2: part that makes it so possible is Jokic's durability and
Speaker 2: what he's capable of doing when the other guys are
Speaker 2: not available, because both Michael Porter Junior and Jamal Murray
Speaker 2: are constantly dealing with nagging injuries in one way, shape
Speaker 2: or form, And like even Jamal Murray this year, like
Speaker 2: he got back to where he needed to get in
Speaker 2: this postseason, which was one of the biggest storylines coming
Speaker 2: out of the regular season. It's like, can Jamal Murray
Speaker 2: be what he was in twenty twenty And he ended
Speaker 2: up eating way better than that even but he was
Speaker 2: dealing with some nagging stuff with his knee. Michael Porter
Speaker 2: Junior and his back issues flare up from time to time.
Speaker 2: But what's great about the Jokic thing is like you
Speaker 2: can just throw four dudes out there with him and
Speaker 2: he's winning fifty regular season games, so like you're not
Speaker 2: going to suffer in the standings, you're not going to struggle.
Speaker 2: You can buy rest for Jamal Murray during the season
Speaker 2: and buy rest for Michael Porter Junior, and then when
Speaker 2: those guys are available in the postseason, it's the simple
Speaker 2: fact of you better find a way to score on
Speaker 2: them easily on the other end, because there's just nobody
Speaker 2: ever really truly bothered them in this postseason. And that's
Speaker 2: just going to be a recurring theme as far as
Speaker 2: Miami goes. And this is what is so interesting from
Speaker 2: the same point of continuity. And I actually wanted to
Speaker 2: bring this up because it was something I talked about
Speaker 2: a lot after Game four. But I do think it's
Speaker 2: really interesting that from like twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: it was kind of like the Mercenary era, right, Like
Speaker 2: the Warriors signed Kevin Durant outright, and they win a
Speaker 2: couple championships.
Speaker 3: In a row.
Speaker 2: The Raptors trade their continuity for Kawhi Leonard, a Mercenary
Speaker 2: comes in, they win a title. Lebron James ships off
Speaker 2: a half decade of draft prospects in the Lakers to
Speaker 2: bring back Anthony Davis. They immediately win a title. The
Speaker 2: Bucks coming off of a really disappointing loss to Jimmy
Speaker 2: Butler in the Bubble. They go out and they trade
Speaker 2: for Drew Holliday the immediately win a title. That was
Speaker 2: kind of like that era, But now we're in this
Speaker 2: era where it's like, suddenly, you saw last year a
Speaker 2: Celtics group with Marcus mar Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum
Speaker 2: and Al Horford that had a ton of reps together
Speaker 2: that made.
Speaker 3: It to the finals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you saw a Warriors team with a
Speaker 2: bunch of dudes who've been playing together forever make it
Speaker 2: to the finals this year, the Heat and the Nuggets
Speaker 2: teams that had been together for a while. And my
Speaker 2: theory on this is like, there's so much talent in
Speaker 2: the league now. Yeah, every team has two stars. It's
Speaker 2: like Philly's like the tenth best team in the league.
Speaker 2: It's like they got hard and embeed and ty respects.
Speaker 2: It's like everyone's got two stars, everyone's got good role players.
Speaker 2: So it's the groups that play the best basketball that
Speaker 2: end up winning. And so you have to learn how
Speaker 2: to play good basketball over years, and so I do
Speaker 2: think it's interesting how continuity has taken center stage yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's also the league is cyclical, Like you know,
Speaker 1: you see this all the time. People copied the Warriors
Speaker 1: for years, even when they didn't have great three point shooters.
Speaker 1: It was just like, Okay, we've got to become that.
Speaker 1: And you're like, no, you can get twos. You know, Denver.
Speaker 1: Denver was so confident in its ability to get twos.
Speaker 1: They can shoot threes and they're good at it, but
Speaker 1: they're not beholden to it, and and and so you know,
Speaker 1: champions usually have people that copy them, right, like it's
Speaker 1: it's it's cyclical. So Lebron and Durant move and they
Speaker 1: have success. So everybody thinks that's that's but Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: and Lebron are two of the twelve best players in
Speaker 1: league history or fifteen best players. You can move around
Speaker 1: the league all you want, it's not gonna You're not
Speaker 1: gonna duplicate their championships. So I think Denver. I do
Speaker 1: think people will look at Denver and try to get
Speaker 1: bigger to combat them. It was like when the Spurs
Speaker 1: had you know, early in the Spurs, when they have
Speaker 1: Robinson and Duncan, it's like, wow, like this is this
Speaker 1: is a lot and I think people will try to
Speaker 1: combat that, but I think a lot of what Denver
Speaker 1: does is unique to them. There's just not many guys
Speaker 1: like Aaron Gordon in the league that big. I mean
Speaker 1: just I saw him the other day. It's it's he
Speaker 1: was doing something after a game and he had like
Speaker 1: a sweater on and he was at the microphone and
Speaker 1: I'm like, that ain't sit ups and deadlifts. That dude
Speaker 1: is just built, not like any human I've ever met,
Speaker 1: Like six ' ten broad He's just not on the market, right, Like.
Speaker 2: YA game against him, I'm aware he's huge.
Speaker 1: So Jokic is not on the market like some of
Speaker 1: great teams have. Steph Curry's not on the market. You
Speaker 1: can try to duplicate it. Lebron wasn't on the market,
Speaker 1: so you're gonna see some imitators and people try to
Speaker 1: get bigger. But you know, great teams everywhere. Mahomes isn't
Speaker 1: on the market, right, you can try to duplicate so
Speaker 1: much of it. Denver's unique. I think they're going to
Speaker 1: alter the game. I think they're going to have copycats,
Speaker 1: and I think they're going to be around for years.
Speaker 1: I was so happy for the city because I've always
Speaker 1: said Detroit and Denver don't get the love. But everything
Speaker 1: works in Detroit. They like bowling. I've seen the ratings
Speaker 1: college basketball. You know, New York City is a great
Speaker 1: sports city, but they don't love college football, they don't
Speaker 1: love Nascar. Detroit loves everything. Denver's the same way. Denver
Speaker 1: loves everything. Every star was out the night in Denver,
Speaker 1: every coach, every player. It was like, it meant so
Speaker 1: much to the city. And it's the fans there are
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up with the Orange Crush, and
Speaker 1: you know that was the loudest place in the league.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just I felt, I really felt.
Speaker 1: I was so happy for Denver. It meant so much
Speaker 1: to the city. I mean, you see Peyton Manning moved there.
Speaker 1: Right after he played, he said this story, I want
Speaker 1: to I want to be the rest of my life,
Speaker 1: and he's biting his lip and he's sweating, and I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: it meant so much.
Speaker 3: It was such a joy to watch.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was one of the great quarters of intense, sluggish
Speaker 1: open jumper missing basketball in a long time. Like it
Speaker 1: was you kept saying to yourself Okay, Denver doesn't deserve
Speaker 1: to win. You can't miss free When when Brown missed
Speaker 1: two free throws, Christian Brown missed two free throws, I'm like.
Speaker 3: Bro, come on, you can't do that. You get win
Speaker 3: a title like that.
Speaker 1: But I just have a feeling like of elevation tonight,
Speaker 1: Like I'm really happy for Denver.
Speaker 3: I love competitive basketball like that. It's funny.
Speaker 2: There was a quote from Jeff and Gundhi during the
Speaker 2: game when he was talking about Max Stru's playing through
Speaker 2: his struggles. He's like, he's like every coach loves a
Speaker 2: player that is competitive when he's struggling, because a guy
Speaker 2: who's struggling but his competitive will attempt to find ways
Speaker 2: to affect the game even when he's not making shots.
Speaker 2: Like do you remember that ridiculous chase down block that
Speaker 2: Max Strew's had in the fourth quarter with like four
Speaker 2: minutes left. Where I think it was I think it
Speaker 2: might have been Jamal Murray. Somebody had a breakaway layup
Speaker 2: and he just qustioned Bryan and yeah, yeah, and he
Speaker 2: came flying in and blocked it. And I was like,
Speaker 2: that is just sheer force of competitive will. When he
Speaker 2: can't buy a bucket and there was literally like ten
Speaker 2: of those dudes out on the court tonight because nobody
Speaker 2: could really make anything, you know, even Jokic missed one
Speaker 2: of his late little push shots that he always makes.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to talk about a little bit about
Speaker 2: Jokic in his place atop the league because I think
Speaker 2: even as we talk about the tier that you had mentioned,
Speaker 2: which is Luka, Janis, Jokic, and Steph, I think that
Speaker 2: Jokic has demonstrated a level of offensive I don't know
Speaker 2: what it's called, like inevitability, like insistent shot creation that's
Speaker 2: even a level above some of those guys. This kind
Speaker 2: of reminds me a little bit of Lebron in the
Speaker 2: early twenty tens, where there's kind of like the changing
Speaker 2: of the guard, where it's like Kobe's tailing off right
Speaker 2: and Duncan's tailing off, and so Lebron's kind of filling
Speaker 2: that void, and then some of the younger guys like
Speaker 2: kd just wasn't quite there yet. Steph Curry's not quite
Speaker 2: there yet. That's kind of the way I'm looking at
Speaker 2: this right now, Like Jokic feels like he's at the
Speaker 2: absolute peak of his powers here in his late twenties,
Speaker 2: and Giannis is like dealing with some flaws in his
Speaker 2: game in the half court, and Steph just didn't quite
Speaker 2: shine through against that dominant Laker defense the way that
Speaker 2: Jokic did. And Luca's struggling in the margins of basketball,
Speaker 2: like he's unbelievably great, but he's struggling defensively, and he's
Speaker 2: struggling with his attitude, and he's struggling with kind of
Speaker 2: maintaining the flow of a team with how kind of
Speaker 2: ball hockey he can be sometimes, And so like, do
Speaker 2: you do you potentially see Yokic starting a run here
Speaker 2: where he's the best player in the world for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the best player today is Jokic, Jana's second,
Speaker 1: Luca third. Yanni struggles with free throws, confidence late, and
Speaker 1: Lucas struggles with playing with somebody ball dominant. Those are
Speaker 1: real factors. Jokic doesn't really have that, and so I
Speaker 1: do think I do think he feels different. He also
Speaker 1: and this is really a thing, and there's more than
Speaker 1: one way to do it, but there's an ego lesseness
Speaker 1: to him, meaning he'll be easy to play with. Kobe,
Speaker 1: wasn't I mean Kobe won force of just a wilfulness,
Speaker 1: and then with Shaq and then with Gasol, like Kobe
Speaker 1: willed his way to a championship, a lot of that
Speaker 1: was Jordan. Jordan wasn't as easy to play with. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to do it. Then you
Speaker 1: get Magic and Lebron where they make everybody better. I
Speaker 1: feel like Bill, Russell, Magic, Johnson, Lebron, and Jokic feels
Speaker 1: similar to me that stylistically they're all different, but their
Speaker 1: ability to make my players plus players B minus player
Speaker 1: A B plus C minus player a C plus, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, Murray was an A player in this I
Speaker 1: always thought of him kind of as an A minus
Speaker 1: a B plus and I'm like, no, he was an
Speaker 1: A player with some A plus knights and he's not
Speaker 1: doing that without the screens. Inevitability is a good word.
Speaker 1: Like Russell, Magic, Lebron, it wasn't just them. I've said
Speaker 1: this before to you. Is the greatest stat in Lebron's
Speaker 1: basketball careers in high school, where he averaged like twenty
Speaker 1: six a game. As a junior, he scored he could
Speaker 1: have scored fifty a game. As a senior, he scored
Speaker 1: twenty seven. That told me all I think all I
Speaker 1: needed to know about Lebron is junior and senior year.
Speaker 1: He averaged like a point and a half more. That's
Speaker 1: never been Lebron games to outscore people. It's always been
Speaker 1: about elevating others because he knows he can get his points.
Speaker 1: And it's like that told you what Lebron was he?
Speaker 1: I mean, Lebron James best basketball player ever. If I said,
Speaker 1: what do you think he averaged his last year of
Speaker 1: high school, you'd be like forty eight, Like no one
Speaker 1: more point than his junior year. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the key. I think free agents and people are gonna
Speaker 1: look Jason at Jokic and be like, Denver's not a
Speaker 1: bad place to live, right Harden Luca, It's like, man,
Speaker 1: am I gonna get the shot? Am I gonna get looks?
Speaker 1: You watch Jalen Brown explode in New York, Jalen Brunson
Speaker 1: explode in New York, You're like, Holy God, Luca got.
Speaker 3: In his way.
Speaker 1: Man. There's a lot of guys, a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of Kevin Loves, a lot of Chris Boshes, had
Speaker 1: really big careers, gave up a lot of numbers and
Speaker 1: said I want to play with that dude, A lot
Speaker 1: of people gonna want to play with Jokic. That's an
Speaker 1: egoless guy. I mean, if you were a shooter, it's like,
Speaker 1: who would you want to play with? Like, I mean
Speaker 1: that guy is I mean he literally is does not
Speaker 1: like he'll win the MVP Award and he'll turn around
Speaker 1: and celebrate with his family. You know. It's like Tim Duncan,
Speaker 1: it's really easy. You become your star. Somebody once told
Speaker 1: me this. It's the smallest locker, the fewest players, so
Speaker 1: your star has more of an impact on the culture
Speaker 1: and the attitude of the team. Like in the NFL,
Speaker 1: you split at halftime, offense here, defense there, baseball bullpen
Speaker 1: A third of the teams down there. Basketball stars. It's
Speaker 1: not about getting a star, it's about getting the right star.
Speaker 1: Like Jokic, Lebron, Magic, Russell, they were the right star
Speaker 1: and that's why you have all these potential championships to
Speaker 1: meet Jokic.
Speaker 2: I think they're going to get a couple of really
Speaker 2: good players at discount this summer. One of the biggest
Speaker 2: things that I've noticed in the buy out market over
Speaker 2: the course the last few years, but also in that
Speaker 2: veteran minimum mid level exception market is guys typically target
Speaker 2: playing time. You'd think it'd be money, you think it'd
Speaker 2: be a market, you think it'd be a championship. It's like, No,
Speaker 2: it's usually playing time and big shock basketball players like
Speaker 2: to play basketball, and especially when they're at that phase
Speaker 2: in their career when internally they have that combination of
Speaker 2: confidence and experience where they feel like they can really help.
Speaker 2: The thing with Denver is they're gonna lose Bruce Bruce
Speaker 2: Brown in all likelihood because he's got like something like
Speaker 2: a seven million dollar player option. He's gonna off out
Speaker 2: of that and he's gonna go somewhere and get one
Speaker 2: of those like fifteen million.
Speaker 3: Dollars a year type of type of con question.
Speaker 2: And the other thing too, is like this is a
Speaker 2: team that had no backup center, So hey want to
Speaker 2: be a backup center. There's there's two ships to night
Speaker 2: they're waiting for you. You get to play whenever Yokich
Speaker 2: is off the floor, Like that's your job if you
Speaker 2: want to know, and you get to compete for a championship.
Speaker 2: You know, like last year it was DeAndre Jordan. What
Speaker 2: if this year it's a like a better version of
Speaker 2: that type of player, you know, and then same thing
Speaker 2: goes for that bench wing bench guard type of stuff.
Speaker 2: Like they never really could figure out that backup point
Speaker 2: guard position. It was Bones Highland for a while. I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, let's get Reggie Jackson in here. Okay,
Speaker 2: Reggie Jackson's not working well. We ended up just using
Speaker 2: Bruce Brown and he's gonna be gone. So who's the
Speaker 2: backup point guard that they're gonna be able to sign?
Speaker 2: Because it's like, hey, guess what you're gonna get twenty
Speaker 2: seven minutes a night, and especially during the regular season
Speaker 2: when we're trying to eat innings and you're gonna get
Speaker 2: to get to start when Jamal mur he's taking his
Speaker 2: rest days, Like, there's gonna be people that slot into
Speaker 2: that spot. And you know, it's funny because we talk
Speaker 2: a lot about what kind of dynasty is Denver capable of.
Speaker 2: I tend to think that next year could be the
Speaker 2: most dominant year of this entire kind of Denver Nuggets experience.
Speaker 2: It's that confidence of champions that always comes back. Underrated
Speaker 2: thing Jamal Murray's first full season coming back from the knee,
Speaker 2: where like he's got the confidence of that great playoff run.
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray has never had like that. I made the
Speaker 2: All Star team and I made second team All NBA season.
Speaker 2: That's probably going to be next season for Jamal Murray.
Speaker 2: A guy like Michael Porter junior. He had some struggles
Speaker 2: in the finals that will get him in the gym
Speaker 2: all summer, working on specific things, particularly putting the ball
Speaker 2: on the floor. I think Denver could win sixty games
Speaker 2: next year and repeat, like next year is the year
Speaker 2: and then the other thing too. Phoenix is just still
Speaker 2: a ways away, like they might take them two off
Speaker 2: seasons to get the requisite pieces.
Speaker 3: The Lakers obviously are.
Speaker 2: In a similar predicament, like there are a lot of
Speaker 2: teams out west that like this Golden State thing, Like
Speaker 2: what if they have a significant turn over this summer,
Speaker 2: I don't think them running it back is enough to
Speaker 2: beat Denver, and so I do think there's a chance
Speaker 2: that next year ends up being one of the more
Speaker 2: dominant years for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean when Kevin Durant went to Golden State, like
Speaker 1: the first year was the most dominant and then you
Speaker 1: know apathy, you know that overconfidence sets in Denver's you know,
Speaker 1: even though Denver's a really good offensive team. You know
Speaker 1: there are you know, Gordon's not a naturally gifted offensive player.
Speaker 1: Jokish is a very unique point center. Jamal Murray is
Speaker 1: not what I would call twitchy. He's an ok ball handler,
Speaker 1: gets very sloppy at times with one hand passing, and
Speaker 1: sometimes he can always get a shot, a lot of
Speaker 1: fallaway stuff. But I don't consider him a dynamic athlete.
Speaker 1: I think I think Devin Booker, I think he's a
Speaker 1: more dynamic athlete. I think Jamal Murray became a little
Speaker 1: bit better playmaker the night suspected. I thought they were
Speaker 1: kind of even players. So there's still a team. Sometimes
Speaker 1: get into the offense, they hover around the outside. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, guys, okay, guys. It's a beatable team.
Speaker 1: But I think what they'll have to replace some of
Speaker 1: their gifts are just unique body types. I mean, Michael
Speaker 1: Porter's that move tonight down the floor behind the back,
Speaker 1: that's a very unique h Gordon's unique, Yokic, A lot
Speaker 1: of what they present, they're just unique body types that
Speaker 1: aren't on the market. And so if they lose a Brown,
Speaker 1: you can go find a shooter. You'll you'll find a shooter.
Speaker 1: So but they're It's interesting. It's not that they're not beatable.
Speaker 1: It's just that, like I think if Phoenix found a
Speaker 1: couple of bench pieces and Chris Paul came back, I
Speaker 1: think they'd be a handful. I think they really would
Speaker 1: be a handful. I think DeAndre Ayton is going to
Speaker 1: be fifteen to twenty percent better just because of Ocal
Speaker 1: if they could get a bench piece, a really nice
Speaker 1: you know, almost a Malcolm Brogden, like, oh okay, just
Speaker 1: sixteen points, somebody a white or a brogged in from
Speaker 1: Mike Boston, that kind of player. But what they have,
Speaker 1: and I think the organization has been good at drafting
Speaker 1: and developing what they have is unique bodies. It's just
Speaker 1: not those kind of bodies are you know, you see
Speaker 1: certain NFL teams that have defensive linemen. Philadelphia has three
Speaker 1: or four body types, and you're like, you know, they're
Speaker 1: not available on the market. Nobody lets Aaron Donald go
Speaker 1: or Fletcher Cox go or Chris Jones and the Chiefs go.
Speaker 1: And so it's not like you're just replacing shooters. You
Speaker 1: can find guys that can shoot. Jokic, Gordon Porter Big
Speaker 1: that is I don't know, I watch them and I
Speaker 1: don't want to be hyperbolic, but I watched them and
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is you can beat them, but you'd
Speaker 1: have to shoot really, really well to beat this team
Speaker 1: in a seven game series.
Speaker 2: Weird Bodies is such a perfect way to put it,
Speaker 2: because it's Jokic is like somehow bigger than all the centers,
Speaker 2: Like it's just bigger than all of them, and he's
Speaker 2: just going to manhandle him on his way to the basket.
Speaker 2: Aaron Gordon is built like bam ade Bio, but like
Speaker 2: can play on that small forward position out on the wings.
Speaker 2: Super twitch, Michael oh yeah, and Michael Porter Junior is
Speaker 2: just way taller than every movement shooter in the league.
Speaker 3: And then Jamal Murray.
Speaker 2: I think one of the big advantages he has over
Speaker 2: a guy like Devin Booker is he's a little bit trunkier,
Speaker 2: a little bit lower center of the yes, super strong legs,
Speaker 2: so he can bump guys off.
Speaker 3: And that's what he does.
Speaker 1: It's he is, that's perfect. He is try That's why
Speaker 1: he's not as twitchy, he's not dynamic. He's just remember
Speaker 1: Andre Miller the guard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good example.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, just like you wake up and he's got
Speaker 1: twenty three and you're like, none of them were pretty.
Speaker 1: They're all kind of fallaways from the angle. It's those
Speaker 1: guys are hard to defend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that I agree with you. I don't
Speaker 2: think they're unbeatable. I don't think this is the twenty
Speaker 2: seventeen Warriors. And I'm excited I did for that just
Speaker 2: as a basketball fan, because there's a version of this
Speaker 2: where they are going to be in some wars. They're
Speaker 2: going to be in some six to seven game series
Speaker 2: in the future, especially with the CBA, when things get crunched,
Speaker 2: like sometime three four years from now, one of those
Speaker 2: dudes on the wing is gonna get you know, is
Speaker 2: going to have to be moved on from just simply
Speaker 2: from the standpoint of the financial elements of it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: like they're gonna be in some wars and we'll get
Speaker 2: to see. Like you and I have been around covering
Speaker 2: the league long enough to know that not every playoff
Speaker 2: run looks like this. You don't always just dominate like
Speaker 2: they are gonna be tougher ones, but it is nice
Speaker 2: when you get one like this. So congratulations to Denver
Speaker 2: Nuggets fans. You guys have a really really fun team
Speaker 2: to watch, one that I'm excited to cover. And shout
Speaker 2: out to the Miami Heat for making that NBA Finals
Speaker 2: as entertaining as it could have been under the circumstances.
Speaker 1: Eight eight seed. It's like hockey. You get that in hock,
Speaker 1: get them some players. Yeah, I mean, you know it's yeah.
Speaker 1: But here's the good thing for Miami. We know what
Speaker 1: they need, right Like they've got a rim protector, they
Speaker 1: got any dam Yeah, they need they need to really
Speaker 1: you know, even he's probably not the guy because they've
Speaker 1: gone through Tyler Hero's immaturity issues, so they wouldn't be
Speaker 1: attracted to Jordan Poole, who's similarly got some of those
Speaker 1: they've had. They've gone through that with Tyler Hero. But
Speaker 1: they need they need a star shooter because I mean,
Speaker 1: I thought what you said earlier, Jimmy Butler was I mean,
Speaker 1: he was running from the ball for about a quarter
Speaker 1: and a half, like he didn't want to shoot, he
Speaker 1: had no interest in it, Like Lebron got crushed for
Speaker 1: that in that series against Dallas. Like Lebron's running from
Speaker 1: the ball, Jimmy did a little bit of that tonight
Speaker 1: for about a quarter and a half like he was.
Speaker 1: He had eight points entering the fourth and like stop
Speaker 1: shooting for a while. So yeah, I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: sometimes when you lose how you lose and you get thumped,
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, there's clarity, here's what we need.
Speaker 3: And they have some pieces they do.
Speaker 1: They've got some guys that don't want to pay, you know,
Speaker 1: your Martin. They got some guys like that are probably
Speaker 1: going to lead ven. You can work a deal. Pat
Speaker 1: Riley's a maestro at that. You can work a deal
Speaker 1: with Portland. So I think we know what they need.
Speaker 1: What's interesting is if they go out and pursue Dame,
Speaker 1: does Boston just bring the guys back because you can.
Speaker 1: And Brad Stevens is a little bit reticent on making
Speaker 1: big moves. It's got that sort of Midwestern, you know, predictability,
Speaker 1: like let's go back on it, let's work harder. And
Speaker 1: that's a very admirable, redeemable quality. But I don't think
Speaker 1: Brad Stevens is going to take a big swing. But
Speaker 1: Milwaukee's rebuilding, Darryl moriole be aggressive. Miami's going after Dame.
Speaker 1: If they land Dame, Miami feels better than Boston to
Speaker 1: me more explosive they've got, Like whereas I get Jalen
Speaker 1: Brown and Tatum on the wing, Robert Williams, you bubble
Speaker 1: wrap him. Marcus Smart's a defensive guy. I still don't
Speaker 1: think they have a facilitator Dame Butler, Bam Spoe. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's a that feels like a potential championship team.
Speaker 2: Well, and what's bullshra Pat Riley of demonstrated is that
Speaker 2: they're going to find three or four useful players that
Speaker 2: no one else in the league wants, and so you
Speaker 2: can afford to give away big salary filler for a
Speaker 2: guy like Damian Lillard or for like I've seen Dejontay
Speaker 2: Murray being thrown around in some trade roomors. He's another
Speaker 2: guy take a look at if he was available, But like,
Speaker 2: if they could get another legitimate shot creator that takes
Speaker 2: some of that off of Jimmy Butler again, Jimmy and
Speaker 2: Pat or excuse me, Spoe and Pat. They're gonna find
Speaker 2: three or four dudes that have a chip on their
Speaker 2: shoulder that were undrafted, that didn't get all the attention
Speaker 2: that they wanted. So they play hard every damn possession
Speaker 2: of their lives and they're going to find a way
Speaker 2: to round that out. I agree with you. I think
Speaker 2: Boston is going to be the one team that kind
Speaker 2: of runs it back, just because I don't think they
Speaker 2: stand as much to gain from an aggressive trade as
Speaker 2: some of these other teams do. And you're right talk
Speaker 2: about like knowing what you need, Like Milwaukee knows we
Speaker 2: need a significant turnover in our half court offense.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Philly knows that as well. But I do think, I
Speaker 2: do think that we're going to see a lot of
Speaker 2: teams get really aggressive this offseason.
Speaker 1: So Jason has always great stuff. Great season. Now we've
Speaker 1: got a Dragons coming up, we got some free agency,
Speaker 1: got another three weeks to bat this stuff around the volume.