WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Speech of Arrested Development 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:09.320 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio, Ladies 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.960 and Gentlemen. It's another episode of Quest Love Supreme. I'm 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.040 your host Quest Love. We have the Almighty Team Supreme 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:17.799 with us bon Tikolo Brother. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:18.880 How's it been going. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.160 I'm good man, I'm doing yoga. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:23.239 Nice. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.440 Hey, y'all to Flo Bro, I'm out here. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:28.639 We down with dog and Pigeon posing on all of 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:33.960 your old niggasa. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.360 That's nice, all right? Cool? Cool? 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.800 We Particulo is going to get is told. We've passed it. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.720 Go past eighty maybe to ninety or one hundred. 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.640 Yes, I'm taking you to BIMs from taking hot yoga. 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:50.559 I know, yo yoga. How about album with you? Yeah? 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:52.920 Yeah, that's what's up, y'all. 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.640 Steve as as Steve Slice's cigarette. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:05.520 I'm doing yoga too. How to start a Yet, everything's cool. 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.760 Working on a lot of stuff you're doing. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.840 I don't know in your mind if it's like mocking 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.720 or not mocking, like with the network and all that. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.000 But I got to say, in the last three weeks, 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:24.640 but you're doing like major, major, major shit, Like you're 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.240 not just like doing like RINKYDNK Jazz records. Like I 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.200 almost feel like you're out here trying to save jazz music. 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.720 Like, well, what's been going on? Man? 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.360 We got a lot of records coming out. It's Jmi's 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.600 name of the label. We're coming up on twenty Records. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.080 It's been like five years that we've been around and 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.280 finally got you on the label. Recently we're mixing that 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.600 record with David Murray and Ray Angry and yeah, I'm 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.640 not Well, there's a lot of great jazz labels out 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.520 there obviously still doing it, but we're doing it all 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.320 analog with tape and never touching digital in any way. 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.320 So we I can't find another label that's doing it 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.680 like that, where it's completely purest in old school like that. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:10.800 So yeah, we're proud of it. And you know what 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.920 else is turning five years old? The Sugar Network, Wait 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.000 network is five years old, that's correct this month? 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.520 Where you started in twenty eighteen. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.480 Yeah, yeah, started shortly after course up Supreme. 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.720 It's a movement, man. The Sugar Network is the Army 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:31.760 better yet the Navy. 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.600 Well, it's like a little fan club for the for 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.160 this podcast. Basically that's how it's That's how it started, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:39.520 but it's expanding. 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:44.000 It absolutely is all right, wait, so just let me know, JMI, 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.000 is your logo at least close to the CTI label, 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.200 like there are. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:54.160 Some similarities to we stole some of some of their 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.160 design aspects for our stuff, but not not the logo specifically. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.480 All right, but yeah, keep it tr we keep it 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:01.000 old school. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:01.919 Uh. 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:03.359 How's it going. 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.240 Oh it's going good. I'm I got the flu, but 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.760 I don't want to miss speech. So you got yeah, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:12.840 you know, talking to a bunch of niggas doing Grammy weekend. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.120 I'll make you sick trying to book people. But in 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.960 the good news, Oh quest love supreme Honey. I was 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.640 on the strip with my leg and my skirt up, like, 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.760 come on, nas, come on Leslie Jones like yep. 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.600 Soies might just visit. 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:30.920 But he said he would. He said to me he would. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.040 He said to me, Yeah, I went to. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:38.160 Oh, okay, that's what's up. That's what's up. Well, ladies 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.280 and gentlemen, I will say that, you know. 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.680 Uh. This interview is close to my heart because as 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:49.680 a founder leader of one of the most legendary groups 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.320 and hip hop, a group really really responsible for laying 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.920 out the carpet for a group like the Roots to 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.760 come down and be able to have a career. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.080 I will say that, you know, this gentleman has. 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:08.640 Pretty much made a profound impact on the music industry 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:13.040 just with the level of I guess the first wave 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.520 of black Joy. Like we weren't using terms like black 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.359 Joy back in nineteen ninety two, nineteen, you know, we 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.240 just basically called it alternative rep. But it's almost like 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.040 I never liked the term alternative rep because Lauren Hill 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.240 once told me that alternative rep just means like no skills, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.359 and you know that's definitely not the case. You know, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.560 besides being one of two people in the hip hop 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.880 field that have won Best New Artist for the Grammys. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.960 As far as hip hop winning Best New Artist, I. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:49.680 Will say that his group's debut album really just set 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:54.880 a high water mark for just music period, just a feeling, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.280 definitely a blueprint that I followed, and it's this conversation 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.599 is seriously long overdue. Ladies and gentlemen, Please welcome to 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.799 Quest Left Supreme. I don't know if we ever had 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.360 a one title person before, because I'm used to saying 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.640 like the full name, I don't want to say Welcome. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:22.080 Todd Thomas Oh, professionally known Oh. You know, I'm trying 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.320 to make it like you're a dignitary or or a 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:27.520 head of state, not just like I'm not trying to 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:34.000 be the popole. Please welcome speech to quest Left Supreme. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.320 Thank you man, yo, yo, that that. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:38.800 All of these words very much mean the world to me. 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:40.960 I appreciate it. Man. It's good to be here. It's 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:42.760 been a minute. Man, it's been a minute. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.159 It's been a good minute. It's been a good Yeah. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.240 In fact, where are you talking to us right now? 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:49.880 From where are you at? 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:51.039 This is my studio. 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.320 I call it the podium, and I'm at my crib, 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.240 so all my property. I have a separate building and 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:58.800 it's my studio. So I'm in here. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.600 And the Georgia Ok. 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.000 Yeah, stay with Georgia Fayetteville area. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.680 Yep, So you've stayed in Georgia that that entire time 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:09.320 of your. 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.599 Since yeah, since nineteen eighty seven. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.120 Yo. Didn't we meet in Milwaukee? 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.160 I know that you have roots in Milwaukee, but I'm 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.920 trying to figure out if I met you in Milwaukee once. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.880 You guys were rocking the show at Summerfest, which is 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.719 one of the largest music festivals in the world. Actually, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:32.680 and I sell roasted corn at Summerfest. My father opened 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:37.400 up a hot roasted corn stand business at Summerfest forty 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.359 six years ago. And so my wife and I have 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.240 been doing that business. Well, I was working at it 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.400 since I was nine years old, but my wife and 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.279 I started working that business taking it over for my 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.279 dad for probably I'm going to say sixteen years or so. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.440 So one year the roots was rocking, I want to say, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.640 on the Miller stage, in one of the stages. Yeah, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.640 at Summerfest. And I came backstage and hung out with 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.520 y'all while you were there. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.120 All right, So I'm totally just going to throw away 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.239 my initial questions because now you piqued my curiosity because 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:16.360 I too, am in the food world. But I gotta know, like, 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.240 how do you maintain that business? 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.920 My dad he was trying to get his foot in 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.960 the door because we're the one and only black owned 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.880 food company in Summerfest, and Summerfest is huge. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:32.120 I can't say that enough. 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.640 So and so basically he wanted to get his foot 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.480 in the door. They were offering soul food as an option, 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.080 so on and so forth. But he was just studying 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.920 the landscape and realized that roasted corn would kill for 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.360 the audience that tended to go to Summerfest at that time, 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.640 and so he was going in as a roast corn 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:56.960 business and it started off literally bananas, like so many 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.320 people were into it, like you were describing the dude 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.720 that was outside of SOB's. It was lines around the 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.320 block for this corn. And not to mention a black 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.320 man selling it. All black workers creating his corn, roasting 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.920 his corn, which is a big production, like unlike the 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.160 dude that was on the streets, ours was a very 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.119 big production. So we had tons of basically six seven 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.520 hundred degree roasters that were lined up and we would 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.920 put the corn on these big metal sheets and then 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.800 turned the corn over on one side was done, and 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:31.960 it was a production to watch as well, and people 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.240 just loved it. And so as a nine years old, 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.559 from that point on, I started doing it, just working there. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.160 And then you know, when I got old enough and 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.840 my father was too old to run it, my queen 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:42.760 and I took it over. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.000 And so or is he a chef by nature or no, 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:46.600 not at all. 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.000 In fact, he learned how to roast it the best 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.959 that he could, and it was just dope. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:52.840 Everybody loved it. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.400 And it was way above any competitors at other, you know, 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:58.920 state fairs, because Milwaukee also has a state fair which 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.440 is really big, was way bigger than the people that 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.920 sold it there. So everybody just started falling in love 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.280 with Robbie's roasted corn. And that was my dad, whose 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.319 name is Robert. Yeah, so he started that whole tradition. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:11.920 Yeah. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.199 No, not on a stick, no, no, You roast it 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.080 in a roast on a roaster, and then you pull 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.120 back the husk and you let that husk you hold 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:22.320 the hust, so you keep the hust. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:23.840 You know a lot of people take the husk off 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.040 Mexican style exactly. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.120 And you hold that husk and then you wrap a 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:29.880 paper towel around it. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:30.880 You dip it. 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.439 We dip it in butter, like literally a crock pot 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.160 full of butter. We dip it in there. And then 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.800 we have various seasonings, you know what I mean, from 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.280 anything from lemon pepper to Mexican style, which is like 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.800 a mayonnaise and so on and so forth, rubbed on it. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.920 It's better than fried chicken, it really is. 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:50.960 Actually, it's incredible. It's incredible. 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:55.800 Yeah, it's just a local phenomenon. You guys never expanded 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:57.559 outside of Milwaukee. 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.320 Or not in a huge way, not yet. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.760 Like we strive to get into Disney World and stuff 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.920 like that, and just we're unsuccessful doing that. But the 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.839 truth is is that we've done like Atlanta, which is 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.320 where I live. We've done Chicago, So this is regional 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:13.800 to where we're sort of based out of. 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.480 But we haven't taken it national or anything like that. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:18.080 Bruce Picnic, twenty twenty four. 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.000 That's what I'm saying. But even at that, consider it done. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:26.120 I would do that for real. Shit, all right, you 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:26.640 know what I'm saying. 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.840 Are you growing your own corn? Do you have a farm? 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:31.200 No? 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.240 I know there's a music podcast, but I'm just really interested. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.080 And I get it. I get it. We source our 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:40.480 corn from different growers. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.280 So obviously corn is very seasonal, so we try to 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.400 make sure we get the best corn. We try to 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.440 get a mixture of white and yellow corn, and so 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.160 it's really really delicious and it's just it's more flavorful 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.360 than your normal yellow corn. And so we get it 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.800 sourced from different producers and you know, farmers and stuff 0:10:59.840 --> 0:10:59.920 like that. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.920 Oh his mind is yeah, I'm because I I mean, 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.600 I just purchased a farm. I don't have plans on 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.840 utilizing it as a farm farm farm. Yes, there's a 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.320 greenhouse to grow like vegetables and whatnot, but that's just 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.679 like my personal consumption. But again, because I'm getting into 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.120 the alternative food space and all those things, and you know, 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:30.160 not to mention, there's a brother from Milwaukee actually, Will 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:39.240 Allen basically pioneered inner city urban farming and kind of 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.720 really like what was the pioneer of that? He got 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.880 a MacArthur's Genius Grant for doing it, and I became 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.520 friends with his daughter, and you know, I thought it 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.640 was silly. They're like, yo, man, no, we need to 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.160 teach our people how to farm, how to because you know, 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.079 and I'm a result of it. 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.199 Like growing up in Philadelphia, I. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.920 Didn't realize that, you know, we had go outside to 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.200 the suburbs. We had to go to Upper Darby to 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:07.160 find fresh fruits, organic food, right. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.480 You don't have that in the inner city. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.120 And so that's what made me interested in plant based 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.360 foods and developing that and not like, you know, I 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.080 think people are tend to thinking like we want to 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.360 replace it or whatever. Yes, granted, yes, I know, Patrick 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:25.199 from impossible foods wants to replace you know, meat, which right, 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.000 yea more power to I truly, I believe in twenty 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.000 years what we know is food now will be phased 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.480 out and will be like plant based. But yeah, I'm 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:39.440 just really interested when people get into the alternative space 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:40.440 for those things. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.760 Yeah, totally totally shout out to Milwaukee. That's dope. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.839 Okay, so dope, yes, absolutely, Now I'll get it back 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:48.600 to my real question. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.840 What was your very first musical memory? 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.560 I would I would say it was seeing the Jackson 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.000 five show on Saturday mornings. That was probably my first 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.280 musical memory. And watching Michael Jackson and the Jackson five 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.800 that cartoon slash. I think they might have had like 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.120 real scenes as well, so I think it was a mixture. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:12.960 Well it was, Yeah, it was a cartoon. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.120 And then they had a variety show too, so. 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.200 Right, the Variety Show of seventy seven. I just found 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:25.920 out that when the Silvers moved from Tennessee to Los Angeles, 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:30.400 you know, they the Silvers, you know, they had variety 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.480 as a singing group. They've been singing together since they 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.160 were kids. But when they got to Hollywood, one of 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.160 the first jobs that two of the Brothers had. One 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.200 of the brothers in the Silvers was the voice of Jackie. 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.480 And I believe, I believe Jermaine. 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.920 Yeah, Jackie and Jermaine were voiced by members of the Silvers. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:53.440 Yeah. 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.160 See, I did not know that. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.480 That is something that we never mentioned that on the 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.360 Leon Silvers episode. Yeah, I think it was Edmund and 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.480 Ricky Silvers. I believe, I believe it was them. Yeah, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.439 so wow, could you tell me the very first album 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.240 that you purchased with your own money, not given to you? 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.880 But yeah, yeah, Well I don't remember the Joy with 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.440 my own money, but I remember my grandmother gifting me 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.640 a forty five of Michael Jackson. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:31.080 Well was it the Jackson five? It was damn what 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:31.800 was that song. 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.200 Down to the Ground Shake your body down to the ground? 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:39.680 That was probably. 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:40.600 Yeah. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:45.320 That was my first like memory of having a record 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.120 that was my own, you know what I'm saying. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.480 So I didn't buy it, but I owned it. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.680 It was my record, Like that was the beginning of 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.720 my record collection and it was just a forty five. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:55.160 Yeah. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.520 What did your parents do for a living? 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.960 My mom, both of them are active, my mom and 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.320 my mom is the owner of the largest black newspaper 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:09.360 in Wisconsin. It's called the Milwaukee Community Journal. So that's 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.640 my mom. My dad is an entrepreneur in any way. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.960 So he started gas stations, he started catering businesses, the 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:23.320 first black owned fast food restaurant in Milwaukee. He started 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.960 a nightclub called the Fox Trap, which turned into an arcade, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.160 and so you know, he was just a serial entrepreneur. 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.480 He never owned all those things at one time, but 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.360 he would do this business for a while that he 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.440 would transfer to this business and that business. 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.040 So that's what my mom and dad both did. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.360 Yeah, well, I want to know how easy is it 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:49.640 or how easy was it for black entrepreneurs to start 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.600 a business, because you know, for most of us, you 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.640 start a business first of all by getting. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:54.040 A bank loan. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:16:00.840 And usually for a lot of people that I hear 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.320 talking about, you know, post civil rights experience for black people, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:11.080 you know, a lot of the Jim Crowing attitudes three 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.760 nineteen sixty eight were still happening, you know, long after, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.120 like way into the seventies, way into the eighties. Even 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.880 one of the funniest stories I ever heard was George Johnson, 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:27.040 who you know, started the Johnson Hare Empire in Chicago, 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.200 you know, they single handedly funded soul trade, you know, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.400 with the after scene commercials and all that stuff. So 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.920 he tells the story of going to at least twenty 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:44.080 banks in Chicago and getting rejected by them all when 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.720 he wants to start a business, and I believe he 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.080 says that his uncle told him, I'm going to show 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.480 you how to buck the system. I want you to 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.640 return to blah blah blah blah blah bank. And instead 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.160 of saying that you want to borrow two thousand dollars 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.080 to start a business, say you want to want to 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.880 borrow two thousand dollars to take your wife on vacation. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:06.000 Wow. 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.000 And they did it. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.560 Wow Wow again like that, you know, like we don't 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:18.920 talk about probably the main gripe of the systematic racism 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.119 in the United States is the rampant denial of bank 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.600 loans to start businesses exactly. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.400 And so how is your dad. 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.960 Able to start all these businesses? Because you know, I've yeah, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.920 this is a rare situation for me to hear someone 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.280 that has like a dream and it goes in fruition 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.360 and manifested itself. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.480 Yeah, I'm glad you asked that they pulled money together 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.800 from other black families and people, and so that was 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:49.840 their startup money. 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.359 And then my mother, she was a school teacher. 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.320 And so after the riots of doctor Martin Luther King 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:02.199 Junior being murdered, there was riots in Milwaukee, or of 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.800 course across the nation, but in Milwaukee as well, and 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.359 they were they looted and destroyed a lot of the 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.720 black businesses. Well, while those black businesses were striving to 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.439 get back on their feet and got back on their feet, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.320 they needed somebody to advertise the fact that they were 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.880 open again and ready for business. And the major newspapers 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:25.720 in Wisconsin were refusing to cover these stories. So they 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.480 asked my mother to put together a pamphlet. Initially she 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.879 did it. It's called the Soul City Shopper, and she 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.480 was just doing it for free. Her goal was to 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.119 try to get people in the community to realize that 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:40.560 these stores were back open. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:42.320 That started to happen. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.840 Other black people that had a little bit of money 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.360 scraped it together and helped them to start what's now 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:49.879 called the Milwaukee Community Journal. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.520 My dad used that money to. 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.600 Start his first business, which was a small gas station, 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.760 and when that did pretty well, he used that money. 0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.680 So you get where I'm going with this to start 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.640 his business, and he was the most in nineteen eighty 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.240 he was one of the most successful black business people, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:12.439 well business people, not black people, business people in Milwaukee. 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.280 But when he got to that level, the city literally 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.400 systemically destroyed him tax wise, and they came after him. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.040 They targeted him. He had a huge target on his back, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.399 and they destroyed most of his businesses. My mom, on 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.560 the other hand, was able to keep hers and move forward, 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.720 but his he didn't have businesses. I would say past 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.480 I'm going to say, like nineteen eighty seven, my dad 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.199 didn't have any other businesses that he was able to 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.920 do in Milwaukee. That's how bad they put him into 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.040 bankruptcy tax issues that he had to fight all the 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.800 money with lawyers. They spent tons of money trying to 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.640 fight all of these things and just you know, fell 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.120 under water. It actually destroyed my mom and dad's marriage 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.359 at that time. So, I mean, all of these things 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.199 obviously have effects, you know what I mean. 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.720 Wow, I would think owning a newspaper would be seen 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:09.280 more as a threat than starting an independent business. On 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.119 your mom's sided, things like how was she able to 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:13.160 run that community? 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.520 The segregated mind state. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.439 We weren't literally segregated, but the segregation mind state really 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.080 played a big role in her being able to sustain 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.280 because the major newspapers refused to give coverage to a 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.720 lot of the black stories, black death, black achievements, black joy. 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.639 As you said earlier, her paper was that sole resource 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.600 for quite a while and then later And that's the 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.880 same by the way, with my father's drive through restaurant, 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.639 he had called Robbie's and McDonald's. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.480 Name all of his businesses. Again I know it, And so. 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:53.359 At that time period, McDonald's was afraid to have drive 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.919 throughs in the black community. They didn't want to do it. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.080 They had some locations, but they refused to open a 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.800 drive through. Well, my father use that their refusal as 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:04.720 an opening to start a business that did have a 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.480 drive through. Of course, just like any other people, black 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.160 people needed convenience on their way to work. They wanted 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.200 to grab something to eat, go to work, so on 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.560 and so forth, and his business took off. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.600 So it was basically. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.800 Their own ignorance and their own refusal to serve black 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:20.320 people that. 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.280 Allowed my mom and dad both to have a career. 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.159 Is your entire family based in Milwaukee or just like 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:32.280 your mom and dad Like. 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.280 No, So, my my father's family is from Tennessee, and 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.159 then my mother's family is from East Saint Louis. So 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.600 they both came to Milwaukee. For exactly, are you from 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:42.960 East St. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:43.280 Louis? 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:44.760 My mama is from Saint Louis. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.040 From everywhere, I learned something new every episode. I did 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:50.560 not know you had Saint Louis roots. 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:56.640 Oh yeah, yeah, all that stuff. I'm sorry ahead, So no. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:57.120 It's all good. 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.600 So then they came to Milwaukee and I met each 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.720 other during college years, and you know, so there was 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.600 some family there. But you know, back in these days, 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.280 there was this huge diversion from the from the South 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.040 to the Midwest to the West because of lack of 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.200 job opportunities and so factories were opening in the Midwest 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.760 and that's why, you know, Milwaukee was one of the 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.919 places that was on our radar back then as black people. 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.240 Yeah, ill, all right, I got this is a two 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.000 party one. What year did you leave Milwaukee? 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.879 Nineteen eighty seven, the year I graduated high school? So 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:34.879 I left literally a week after I graduated. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:35.920 I came to Atlanta. 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.520 All right, Now, Part two that question is and this 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:46.800 is weird that you leave Milwaukee for Atlanta, in which 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:53.040 the unfortunate commonality thread of the two cities is that 0:22:53.080 --> 0:23:00.880 both cities are well known for U two horrific crimes. Oh okay, 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.800 go ahead, No, two horrific crimes against groups of black people, 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.040 of course, the Atlanta child murderers and Jeffrey do Jeffrey. 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.040 Forgetting Milwaukee right Milwaukee? 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.720 And I, you know, I didn't know until the Netflix 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.960 series that he started back in nineteen seventy eight, Like 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:23.920 I thought this was happening like. 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.480 Around like ninety eighty nine, ninety ninety one, But I 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:30.159 didn't realize that his process was way slower. 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.080 But did I never had a chance to interview anyone 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.200 from Milwaukee that you know or know many black people 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.800 from Milwaukee, So I'm asking you to represent your entire 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:45.920 city here. But did you, like, did you have any 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:50.480 family that was affected by what was happening with with 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.760 Dahmer at the time, or like was that even in 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.919 the news, like were they reporting like missing black people 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.040 or or is this just like another murdered this week? 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:05.880 No? No, it was definitely a huge story in Milwaukee. 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:08.919 And my dad lived in the same complex, not in 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:12.280 the same like area that Dahmer lived as Dahmer. 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:14.800 So when my mother and father. 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.639 Divorced, his apartment was there, and so it was a 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.040 very big issue when we found out about it, when 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.640 it became big news and nationwide news. As a family, 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.680 we were affected in the sense of knowing dad was there. 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:30.720 You know, my father was there. So wow, Yeah, it 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:32.359 was a very very big deal. 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:35.320 It wasn't just one of those sort of like things like, oh, 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:36.440 something's happening over there. 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:38.639 No, it was definitely. And by the way, Milwaukee is 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:41.680 very black. So like Milwaukee in the. 0:24:41.600 --> 0:24:44.199 City, yeah, we just think of Laverne and Shirrely in 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:45.119 Happy Days. 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:46.160 Exactly, exactly. 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.080 No, the city itself, I believe, I want to say, 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:51.840 it's sixty or so percent black. So if you go 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:54.920 to Milwaukee, the city itself, because you know, like like Georgia, 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.960 I know, people come down to Georgia. Georgia is one thing, 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.960 but Atlanta is another thing, right, and so it's the 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.960 same difference with Milwaukee, and it's a very black, black, 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:05.920 black city. 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.879 Yeah, so Milwaukee, I'm going to talk about Atlanta. 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:14.919 Milwaukee was a very like the difference the disparities between 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:17.800 black and white people is is and. 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:19.800 Was so crystal clear Milwaukee. 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:25.879 Most Milwaukee Black populations were either poor or lower middle 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:29.640 class somewhere in there. And white people, on the other hand, had, 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.680 you know, a much better shot at being able to 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:36.199 rise up the ladder in America in a sense. And 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:39.520 so when I left Milwaukee in nineteen eighty seven, right 0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:41.720 out of high school, I came to Atlanta, and for 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:47.000 the first time in my life, I saw black affluence 0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:53.120 and people being able, just black opportunity, black diversity, conscious 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:56.280 blacks over here with daishiki's and locks and stuff like that, 0:25:56.359 --> 0:25:58.160 and corporate blacks over there. 0:25:58.200 --> 0:25:59.920 I mean that type of way. 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:01.680 Wait, yeah, so that was in Atlanta. 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:03.920 That was in Atlanta nineteen eighty seven. 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:05.280 I'll be very honest with you. 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:09.960 I had a few friends and family members in Atlanta 0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:14.480 at the time, and really before the Renaissance, which I 0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:18.080 kind of I mean between you and like Bobby Brown, really, 0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:20.920 Bobby Brown was the first person I heard, like, wait, 0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.800 the success yet with this album, you're moving to Atlanta, 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:26.800 Georgia instead of like Baldwin Hills and all that stuff. 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:28.800 I just always wanted to. 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:33.439 Know, like, like I thought, y'all created what we were 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:35.840 know as the bojo lifestyle because I just thought, like, 0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:37.480 they're the pioneers of that. 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:38.639 But you're saying that you. 0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:42.399 Saw the def alternative bojo scene in Atlanta. 0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:43.000 Yeah. 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.920 Yeah, So the West end of Atlanta, right, it's an 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:50.359 area where there's a lot, well, especially before it got 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:57.119 regentrified more recently, it was a very cultural landmark in 0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:02.720 Atlanta where you had you know, African priests and African 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:07.480 dance companies and teaching about the importance of drumming and 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:11.720 the importance of language through music and mathematics through music. 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:14.960 Like these types of things were being taught and spoken 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.840 of in the West into particular, which is where arrested 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:21.560 development was really born in Atlanta. Like me and my 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:24.520 brother Headliner, who you know, was the first person I 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:25.480 asked to be in the group. 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:27.440 He used to cut hair. 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.240 I call him Headliner because he was incredible at barbering, 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.040 like the man. And then of course you had all 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:37.600 of these HBCUs there, right, So you have Spelman, Morehouse, 0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:41.080 Clark Atlanta University, so on, and so Morris Brown. So 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:44.639 all of that area was bubbling with culture and with 0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:51.159 revolutionary you know, ideas and visions. So yeah, yeah, definitely, 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:57.920 I think people who would later see Arrested Development, they 0:27:57.960 --> 0:27:59.639 would know, like if they were in that area, they 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:02.439 would know that we we came from that sort of 0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:06.119 frame of mind, but I will say we added the 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.560 more rural aspects, so like what you're talking about as 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:12.680 far as the need, you know, when you said my 0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:16.720 man will Allen was a pioneer in the sense of 0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:19.680 us getting back to the land and understanding the importance 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:23.960 of land growth. That's the tip Arrested Development in particular 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.120 was on just trying to take us back to that route. 0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:30.639 So our videos were on purposely that kind of energy. 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:33.240 If you remember the Tennessee video and people every day, 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:36.520 it was always in that rural South, just to be 0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:39.440 able to bring us back to that, you know, that 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:44.560 eco self determination, you know, saying grow our own food, 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:46.520 do our own thing, type of energy. 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:48.200 Do you hear you describe it? 0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:51.640 I would assume that your parents weren't were they musically 0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:52.560 inclined at all? 0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:54.000 Or did you have siblings? 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:58.520 So yeah, I did. I had a brother brother, Yeah, 0:28:58.560 --> 0:28:59.360 my brother Terry. 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:04.040 And then my mom was big on adoption and on fostering, 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:09.480 So throughout my childhood my mom would foster numerous kids 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:13.520 and then one of them that she actually adopted was 0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:16.920 from Acra Ghana. His name was Bright Bulleting, so he 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:20.480 lived with me as a child. And yeah, so I 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:24.640 did have siblings. No, my parents weren't particularly into music. 0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:27.320 But I will say my dad being an entrepreneur when 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:30.120 he started his club, it was called the Fox Trap, 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:32.720 one of the hottest clubs in Milwaukee at the time, 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:36.960 I started falling in love with DJing at that time. 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:40.440 I was thirteen, and I became a DJ at that 0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:43.680 club because of just falling in love with music. So 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:46.520 I wouldn't say he taught me from like being musically inclined, 0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:50.080 but getting all those promo records back in the day 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.600 because as a nightclub he would get promo records from 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:56.000 all the major labels. So you know, I remember you 0:29:56.120 --> 0:30:00.520 posting recently about Yellow Magic Orchestrue, right, And I remember 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:04.000 I remember getting you know, vinyl from those days. They 0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:05.800 used to poke a hole in the bottom of it 0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:09.440 to say that it was promotional college. Yeah, and so 0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:12.920 I would get Vinyl and my dad, not knowing about music, 0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:17.160 would ask me to basically curate what his DJs would 0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:20.120 play that night. So I was like always digging into 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:23.880 the Crates, you know, as they say. So, yeah, I 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.680 think that's where I was sort of taught music in 0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:29.280 a in a in a sense was through that as 0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.640 opposed to them teaching me, you know, them having musically 0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:33.840 inclined skills, you know what I mean. 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:35.320 Why did you leave Milwaukee in the first place. 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:41.200 The opportunity was very rare Milwaukee, Like, no one had 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:45.040 made it out of Milwaukee except for Aljio before us. 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:46.720 He's from Milwake. 0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.000 Milwaukee. Yeah, he's from Milwaukee. 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:57.200 And so it was much later later yeah wait who yeah, 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:57.680 so that's. 0:30:58.040 --> 0:31:00.680 Yeah on Amazon. I you should check it out. Yeah 0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:01.960 yeah yeah. 0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:05.880 So you know, so like at that time, nobody was 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:09.680 making it from Milwaukee. Eric Banaa's from Milwaukee. That was later, 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:11.200 you know what I'm saying. So there was a lot 0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:14.600 of things that was later, but at that time there 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:17.960 was nobody making it. There was no opportunities. I used 0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:21.480 to tour Detroit to try to spend time with Jan Atkins. 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:24.240 I'm sure you're familiar with Wan Atkins. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:27.920 so like wine act music got electronic music god. 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:29.479 So like wait, he was nice to you. 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:30.840 He was very nice to me. 0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:32.720 In fact, he liked my group at the time, which 0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:35.479 was before arrested development called attack, and so that was 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:39.040 like the closest opportunities we had was like Detroit, you 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.680 know what I mean. And obviously in hip hop even 0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:43.400 Detroit wasn't on yet, you know what I mean. 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:44.800 Chicago wasn't on. 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:48.640 Yet, So Atlanta wasn't either though really no it wasn't. 0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:51.520 But Atlanta had much more opportunity than Milwaukee. So that's 0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:54.440 why I chose Atlanta. Plus I wanted to be in 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:58.560 the South, like I spent all my summers with my 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:01.960 grandmother in Tennessee, and I fell in love with the South. 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:03.640 I fell in love with the whole idea of the. 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:07.720 South, especially the nature aspect, not obviously, you know, oppression 0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:10.920 of slavery, you know, not that, but like the realities 0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:15.440 of land ownership and self determination, of growing your own food, 0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:19.920 exchanging food from one household to another. So if you 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:23.080 didn't have money, which my grandmother didn't, she still had 0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:26.240 everything because the next door neighbor had college, and the 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:28.120 other neighbor had you. 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.920 Know, sugar, and the other neighborhod yams and meat. 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:35.600 And so it was this self determined community or communal 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:39.720 of the South that I fell in love with you know. 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:42.880 I feel like that's progressive thinking because I would just 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:48.120 think in the late eighties, like everyone I knew was 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:52.680 still trying to migrate to the north, especially where hip 0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:56.800 hop was going. I meanmained to pre himself like moved 0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.840 to New York City. And you know, it wasn't until 0:32:59.880 --> 0:33:03.880 like you know, the kind of gentrification and outsource or 0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:08.360 not even outsourcing, but just the overpricing of city living 0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:11.040 is now made a reverse where now people are, yeah, 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:16.320 people are coming considering back down south now. So all right, 0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:22.440 so now that you're in Atlanta, what are well, what 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:27.200 was your first musical experience in terms of starting a 0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:29.560 band or or starting a group. 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:33.040 And yeah, so I came to Atlanta to go to 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:35.600 school because I sucked a school in Milwaukee. 0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:38.120 I graduated with a zero point nine average, which is 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:39.040 a big time. 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:43.160 Fight exactly, that's under f you know what I'm saying, 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:47.800 that's a g And so so I came to Atlanta 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:50.640 because the Art Institute of Atlanta was the only school 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:52.200 that I had applied to that would. 0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:53.480 Allow me to come. 0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:55.960 And I even had to write a letter of acceptance 0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:57.640 there to tell them that I was going to change 0:33:57.640 --> 0:33:59.320 my tune, so and so forth. So the first week 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.000 I got there, I put up a flyer because I 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:04.720 wanted to start a crew, and I was a DJ, 0:34:05.160 --> 0:34:05.720 but I was. 0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:07.560 Rapping more and more and more. 0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:10.279 So I put up a flyer for a DJ, and 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:13.440 I hung it up at the lunch counter area, you 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.920 know where people were, you know, hanging out, and his 0:34:17.000 --> 0:34:20.600 brother named Tim Barnwell later Headliner, was looking at the 0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:23.000 flyer and so I said, Yo, you know, my name 0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:26.040 is Speech blah blah blah, and we just connected from 0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:29.360 there and then we just started doing music vibing. I 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:32.200 started working for a brother named Butch Winston at Kiss 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:34.799 one oh four as the DJ because back then, you know, 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.759 DJ's not every dj knew how to scratch, you know 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:39.239 what I mean. So a lot of DJs we was 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:42.040 still mixing old school where it was the record faded 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:44.520 out and the next record faded in, but it wasn't 0:34:44.560 --> 0:34:46.399 on beat and all that. You know, this is early 0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:49.520 years of hip hop. So you know, I was a 0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:51.680 DJ that actually knew how to scratch. I was studying 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:54.960 DST and you know all of these types of cats, 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:56.600 you know, Jazzy Jeff, you know what I mean. 0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:58.320 And so on and so forth. 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:01.759 You said you went your reduce yourself to the tempt 0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:05.680 headliner as speech. How did you what Keith tell us 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:07.759 the origins of you choosing that name? 0:35:08.640 --> 0:35:12.040 Yeah, so I in Milwaukee when I DJ, I was 0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:15.000 named DJ Peach p E E C H. 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:17.920 And it's because of the size of my head and 0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:20.279 the light skinned complexion and you know, saying like that 0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:23.440 kind of vibe being extra nice. 0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:27.840 And was taken already. 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:29.240 Exactly, and LL cool J was taken already. 0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:29.520 Yeah. 0:35:29.520 --> 0:35:31.759 By the way, we're both scorpios, me and LL but 0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:33.320 both of us are named Todd. 0:35:33.360 --> 0:35:34.640 Both of us are named Todd. Well. 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:38.440 So, yeah, so I I put an in front of 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.479 Peach when I started rhyming, and to me, I wanted 0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:43.759 to rebrand myself. I knew I was going to the 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:45.680 Peach state and I didn't want to be known as 0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:46.400 m C Peach. 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:48.359 I thought that was why. And so I was like, okay, 0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:50.520 let me put an S in front of it. Now 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:51.680 it makes sense. I'm rhyming. 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.200 Now I'm doing the you know, I'm letting the DJ 0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:57.880 sort of go to the background and my DJ and 0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:00.560 I should say, go to the background of my movement and. 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:02.719 Let me take speech. So I just put ans in 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:03.320 front of peach. 0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:07.839 Hip hop wise before you go to Atlanta, who were 0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:12.200 you sort of I guess more attracted to you in 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.200 terms of like where hip hop was at the time. 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:17.520 I mean, there was kind of a West Coast or whatever, 0:36:17.560 --> 0:36:20.640 but like what was hip hop in Milwaukee at the time. 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:24.440 Well, Milwaukee was interesting because we liked all of it. 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:28.040 So we liked world class rerecing crew from the West Coast, 0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:31.000 We liked Egyptian lover from the West Coast, but we 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:34.200 loved house music from neighboring Chicago, you know, saying, so 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:37.479 we were heavy on house music, but we loved DC 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:39.760 and the go go scene. We loved hip hop obviously 0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:43.480 from the whole East Coast New York. So we liked 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:45.719 all of it. And as a DJ, I played all 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:48.239 of that, you know what I mean. So I liked 0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:50.920 all of it like that. I think that was the 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:55.279 unique sort of entry for me musically, and my musicality 0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:58.200 was such that all of it to me was dope 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:00.760 as opposed to just one or two groups that really 0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:03.279 sort of dictated my direction or what. 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:05.759 I thought was ill. I liked all of it, you 0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:07.480 know what I mean. It was all dope to me. 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:14.120 So in going to Atlanta for you, like, how how 0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:19.760 do you take it from a social connection to Okay, 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:23.760 let's let's see we have something here as a musician. 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:25.840 First of all, did you break your promise to the 0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:28.080 art school? Did you finish? You did? 0:37:28.120 --> 0:37:28.720 I finished? 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:29.160 Okay? 0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:29.960 Yeah, I finished. 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:32.879 I finished with a three point three, mind you, which 0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:34.560 I totally repented. 0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:36.400 You know what I'm saying. I came back. 0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:38.600 I came back doing something that you liked. 0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:42.279 So yeah, well it's funny I was doing something I liked. 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:46.600 But I'll be honest, it really was my black consciousness 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:49.640 that made me do well at school because I wanted 0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:53.319 to be excellent as a black man, Like that was 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:55.360 my That was really my intention. 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.320 Like I felt like I wasn't. 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.719 Being excellent prior, and I wanted to to really come 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:02.360 with it, Like I wanted to come with it. So 0:38:02.400 --> 0:38:05.680 I studied harder. I was studying the Black Panthers. I 0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:11.799 was studying groups that was about our development, and they motivated. 0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:13.840 Me to do better, Like okay, I need to do better, 0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:15.799 you know what I'm saying. So I did I see that? 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:18.600 Well? Wait, you had a group before less of development? 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:20.560 Yeah, I did called Attack. 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:24.000 Yeah, okay, good, So what was who was in at 0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:26.480 tech and like what what were you? 0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:29.640 Guys were less like like stylistically, what were you like? 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:34.279 I think we were a mix between UTFO and run 0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:36.200 DMC if I had to say. 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:40.239 And you know, you know I do. 0:38:40.360 --> 0:38:42.719 In fact, we got records that we released back then 0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:48.080 and they're they're like classic joints that you know, collectors 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:51.719 got and because we only pressed to three hundred copies, 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.000 so it's nothing huge, but in Milwaukee that was huge 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:57.120 because we was the first rap group to put out 0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:58.840 records and to do our things. 0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:00.600 So a lot of the things that we had in 0:39:00.640 --> 0:39:01.560 Milwaukee loved it. 0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:04.960 But as I was saying, we couldn't break past Milwaukee, 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.040 so even working with wyan Ackett, so it just never 0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:11.759 happened for us. But in the group was myself, a 0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:15.760 brother named t A Whiz rest in Peace, and Special 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:18.680 K who was now who is now named DJ Kimmitt 0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:25.360 who's a beast as a DJ DJ KIMMITTT and myself 0:39:25.800 --> 0:39:27.960 and Ta Whiz was the group Attack. 0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:31.799 Wow, I never knew that that's my guy, man. 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:32.959 Yeah. TJ. 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:36.279 Kimmitt's the dude. Yeah, he crushes it. To this day, 0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:39.799 and yeah, he was. He was our DJ, and I 0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:42.800 was a DJ slash rapper and Ta was a rapper. 0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:46.720 Ta was murdered. Unfortunately. In the early nineties. 0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:52.239 Were you guys opening for established acts or like what 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:54.440 were shows like in Yeah. 0:39:54.239 --> 0:39:58.760 So, like with Attack, one of the sort of ways 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:02.960 that we tried to get recordize was throwing parties ourselves. 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:04.919 So my father, being an. 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:09.680 Entrepreneur, would would spend the money and hire DJ Jazzy 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:11.879 Jeff and the Fresh Prince, who at that time only 0:40:11.920 --> 0:40:14.399 had a single parents don't understand and one or Girls 0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:15.920 of the World and nothing but trouble I think it was. 0:40:15.960 --> 0:40:19.680 And back then they didn't have covers on singles a 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:21.600 lot of times, so I didn't know what they looked like. 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:24.320 We hired them, and I say it in quotes because 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:25.080 it wasn't them. 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:26.040 I learned that later. 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:29.759 We hired them for like three thousand dollars or what 0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:33.280 have you, and they came and performed their one song 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:35.959 and a few other things. It wasn't even it wasn't 0:40:36.000 --> 0:40:37.720 Jazzy Jeff, and it wasn't Fresh Prince. 0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:38.320 Fresh Prince. 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.279 The guy I saw that night was like three four 0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:44.000 hundred pounds it didn't look anything like the first prints 0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:48.040 that we now know, and so that was our opportunity 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:49.160 to open up for people. 0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:49.840 So we were. 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:54.360 Striving to use this entrepreneurial attitude to find ways to 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:55.240 expose ourselves. 0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:56.880 Was that crazy, that's crazy? 0:40:57.360 --> 0:40:58.200 Yeah, that's crazy. 0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:01.920 For a second, I was thinking, Okay, Cash Money Marvelous 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:05.040 were there, because all right, I'm from Philadelphia and both 0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:08.760 groups were sort of like kind of the same ILK skill, 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:14.480 tablest huguristic humor mc oh, that's crazy. That's not the 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:18.600 first time I heard stories of, you know, grifting from 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:21.200 the hip hop side. I think there's one dude that 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:24.520 made a killing as Redhead Kingpin. 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:27.920 I don't know if you remember been in the FBI, but. 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:33.359 Yeah, for like a good year and a half, this 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:39.280 guy was making a killing off of, you know, scamming 0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:43.480 people doing nightclub gigs or whatever as Redhead. 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.080 When'd you realize the jig was up? 0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:50.120 For like as far as those catfish open I mean. 0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:54.719 Ax or yes, yeah, there there were more when no, 0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.719 I wasn't any more of that particular thing. But when 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:01.319 DJ Jazzy Jeff at Fresh Prince when I first saw them, 0:42:01.360 --> 0:42:03.920 and I forget what single it was, they the label 0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:06.200 allowed them to have a you know, a picture on 0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:09.279 a cup and I was like, damn, I think there's 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:12.719 like a year later or so, and I'm like, wow, 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:16.239 we got ripped off. They and the show was whack. 0:42:16.320 --> 0:42:18.920 Their show was horrible. But I was like, even scratch 0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:23.319 now and you know, like you know that that was 0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:26.560 at DJ Chassi Jeff, who for me is my favorite DJ. 0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:28.240 So like, did you ever tell them that story? 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:30.840 Actually I haven't told him that story. 0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:34.240 Wow, I can't wait to call Jeff about that one. Yeah, exactly, 0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:38.000 that's crazy. It's crazy. I think in Seattle. 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:41.120 Well, I don't want to say, like, hey, we pulled 0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:44.359 the same skin, but there's a festival called Bumper Shoot 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:48.239 in Seattle, and the stars just weren't in line for 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:51.440 me and Tariq the b at that show. But you know, 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.000 we were heavy believers in the show must go on, 0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:56.680 like we couldn't afford to give up one show, right, 0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:00.960 and so like everyone but me and Tariq were And. 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:04.440 It was early enough for people to not know. 0:43:04.600 --> 0:43:08.520 Who the roots were, right, but until the last minute, 0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:12.879 one guy was like, wait a minute, that drummer is skinny. No, 0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:16.160 And then like it went from like one person to 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:18.360 five people and then was like, damn near a riot, 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:22.000 but they dice raw was black thought, and you know, 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:25.160 they just was in the mail like we we just 0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:29.000 ran out of town. So yeah, yeah, we can't fished 0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:29.520 the city once. 0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:32.160 Sorry, Seattle. I apologized for that. 0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:39.040 Why did you choose the name Arrested Development when you 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:43.520 started the group? Like, was Arrested Development the next step after. 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:45.200 My group attack? 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:48.359 Yeah, after you imploded or yeah? 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:51.600 So basically we you know, I left Milwaukee because I 0:43:51.920 --> 0:43:53.600 wanted to go to school and I wanted to get 0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:57.239 to another atmosphere, another vibe. We started off as a 0:43:57.280 --> 0:44:00.840 group called Secret Society in Atlanta. Then he had Disciples 0:44:00.840 --> 0:44:03.799 of a Lyrical Rebellion as our name. Then it was 0:44:03.880 --> 0:44:06.319 Arrested Development, and that's when we got our deal, right, 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:11.080 So all of those names was just conceptual if you 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:14.520 remember that in hip hop at the time, there was 0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:18.280 a lot of concept going on. So Public Enemy, for instance, 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:22.040 was not just a music group, but they were a concept. 0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:25.080 You got the S one ws, you you got. 0:44:25.000 --> 0:44:28.759 Slave exactly, terminator acts, you know, and even in other 0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:32.080 music styles, like even with Prince from the eighties on out, 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:35.640 like he had Prince of the Revolution and the keyboards 0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:37.319 was a doctor, you know what I'm saying. And it 0:44:37.360 --> 0:44:40.040 was like in the time, you know, had had that 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:42.759 character that they that they play, you know, the whole 0:44:42.760 --> 0:44:46.480 mirror thing with Jerome. So it's like, so the concept 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:50.600 thing was something that was just it was accessible. It 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.600 was things that people were into, and I loved the name, 0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:55.799 so I loved like punk rock stuff as well at 0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:57.800 that time, and Dad Kennedy's. 0:44:57.280 --> 0:44:57.960 And stuff like this. 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:00.920 It just had the certain ring to it for me. 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.959 Arrested Development just felt right for what we was doing 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:05.960 and the vibe. 0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:07.680 We were on and in that moment, what was your 0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:10.000 concept for Arrested Development when you first started? 0:45:10.440 --> 0:45:12.439 It was pretty much the same as what it is now. 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:16.000 So like, you know, our whole thing was almost like 0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:20.560 a play on soul to soul where you had jazz 0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.840 who jazzy b who's like the DJ, but then he 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:27.799 would have guests of different types singing on it, you know, 0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.600 saying exactly right, so like. 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.799 Exactly right, exactly right. 0:45:34.880 --> 0:45:37.640 So that that was sort of the energy with us, 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:41.120 but it was more of headline is the DJ. I'm 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:44.759 the producer MC, and I would invite every show, I 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:48.759 would invite African drummers on I would invite African dance 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:52.040 troops to come and rock with us. So painters, live 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:54.920 painters to come and rock with us on stage. So 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:58.160 that was the energy of Arrested Development then. And you know, 0:45:58.280 --> 0:45:59.640 to some extent or another. 0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:01.319 Now, Funk Jazz got it from you. 0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:04.719 I would say, yes, yeah, yeah, Funk Jazz my man 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:07.880 Jason Orr definitely was inspired. 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:08.880 By you know what we were doing. 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:11.680 Yeah, okay, I'll be very remissed if I didn't ask 0:46:11.680 --> 0:46:16.279 this question now. I mean, I'm a pop culture junkie 0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:24.239 and you know, one of my favorite comedies of all time. Also, 0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:28.680 HAPs us to share the name of your band. Now, 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:32.919 I knew there was a situation with Vernon Reed and 0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:38.520 the Wayans family in terms of Living Color and in 0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:41.960 Living Color. But actually, in I believe in Vernon situation, 0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:47.399 I believe Living Color. Actually maybe for the pilot took 0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:50.880 the logo of Living Color, so I know that it 0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:53.160 got to relegigious proportions. 0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:55.440 But yeah, I always wanted to know. 0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:00.359 When you own a name like Arrested Developments, that you 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:01.800 own the name of arrest Development. 0:47:02.080 --> 0:47:02.640 We do. 0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:05.560 Yeah, even if you're in and I know you guys 0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:09.160 are still active, But do you have to be wholly 0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:12.400 active in order to maintain the name? And does that 0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:16.240 allow you? Like, how does that happen when another entity 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:19.800 comes along with your name? Like I knew there was 0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:26.080 a situation where Prince actually owned the term the Family. Yeah, yeah, 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:31.040 And so when the Family the nothing that Nothing compares 0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:34.360 to you Want and Done group that he produced in 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:40.600 eighty five, Yeah, when they imploded, he still retained the 0:47:40.719 --> 0:47:42.759 night rights to the name of the family. So when 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:46.200 did he wanted to name his album, you know, puff 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:48.680 Daddy in the Family for the No Way Out album, 0:47:49.160 --> 0:47:52.160 he actually had to break off Prince a little something, yeah, 0:47:52.400 --> 0:47:55.440 just to least the name from him, but still Prince 0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:59.080 still maintained that name. So when Arrested Development came out, 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:04.520 was it like is it a separate copyright for television shows? 0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:07.359 Or when you own a rested Development, it's for any 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:09.480 entity that's named that, Like if I wanted. 0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:14.040 Cereal or yeah, a sport or just something, you own it. 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:17.880 So how does that happen? Like are you talking to 0:48:17.920 --> 0:48:19.160 Ron Howard or like. 0:48:19.600 --> 0:48:21.279 Yeah, definitely yeah. 0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:23.920 So what we you know how trademarks work is that 0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:29.440 if it is if the consumer is going to be 0:48:29.600 --> 0:48:34.040 confused about your product called arrested development and our product 0:48:34.160 --> 0:48:35.040 arrested development. 0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:37.440 Then there's a trademark issue. 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:41.000 So if there was a restaurant called arrested Development, probably 0:48:41.040 --> 0:48:44.600 no problem. If there was, you know, a corn stead 0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:46.840 called arrest of Development, probably no problem. 0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:51.560 But TV shows tend to or can. 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.040 If they're successful, have soundtracks that they put out on 0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:56.839 CD or a record or whatever version is out at 0:48:56.880 --> 0:48:57.440 the time. 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:00.800 Of music mediums as they make movies. 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.719 In those movies, you know, there could be confusion as 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:05.359 to when they put out a soundtrack and when we 0:49:05.400 --> 0:49:08.799 do it. And so we we had trademarked the name 0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:10.359 back in ninety two or something. 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:11.960 It wasn't like before we came out. 0:49:11.960 --> 0:49:14.480 We trademarked it after we came out because this was 0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:16.640 our first album. We're learning like, oh, hell, you know, 0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:20.759 we need to trademark the name. So so we did 0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:26.200 have to take Ron Howard and Fox to court because 0:49:26.840 --> 0:49:29.279 they had stolen the name, and you mentioned a few 0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:30.120 other examples. 0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:31.879 They were still in the name. 0:49:32.480 --> 0:49:38.600 Definitely, No, they knew, they knew, they knew, they knew, 0:49:38.840 --> 0:49:42.560 but they assumed that we were washed up, we had 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:47.160 no money, and that we couldn't fight, and so what 0:49:47.239 --> 0:49:50.200 was the wrong assumption. Yeah, they they felt like, we'll 0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:53.160 take it and just basically, you know, just steamroll them. 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:55.239 And they tried to do that because you know, these 0:49:55.239 --> 0:49:57.279 big corporations, they have a lot of money, They have 0:49:57.320 --> 0:49:59.799 long money, so they could go into court for they. 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:02.640 Could go a long time. 0:50:03.280 --> 0:50:06.480 And so I had to go into court to fight, 0:50:06.719 --> 0:50:09.040 and I had to tell the story of how we started, 0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:12.000 which some of which I shared here in front of 0:50:12.000 --> 0:50:15.879 the court to show the blood, sweat and tears of 0:50:15.920 --> 0:50:18.040 what this group meant to me. So it wasn't just 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:20.399 a trademark to me, it was it was a thing, 0:50:20.560 --> 0:50:21.920 you know what I mean. It was a baby in 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:25.279 a sense. And so when the people that was in 0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:29.760 court then heard that story, Fox and Ron Howard just said, okay, 0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:32.080 we need to settle, and so we settled out of court. 0:50:32.600 --> 0:50:34.360 The show was already out at the time when we 0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:36.560 went to court, and we settled out of court. 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.799 Always always wanted to do that. 0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:44.200 Yeah, that was a night, and you were satisfied. I'm 0:50:44.200 --> 0:50:46.920 trying not to be in your pocket. You were heavily satisfied. 0:50:47.200 --> 0:50:49.799 Well, you know, we were satisfied to an extent because 0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:52.280 they offered it. You know, they could put our music 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:54.040 on the show. You know, there was all types of 0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:56.680 things we were negotiating, but we didn't know if the 0:50:56.680 --> 0:50:58.319 show was going to go well or not. So we 0:50:58.440 --> 0:51:00.560 just decided to go, you know, with an X amount 0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:03.080 and just just move on and then if it went 0:51:03.120 --> 0:51:04.760 to streaming, we get another X amount. 0:51:04.880 --> 0:51:06.839 So things like that, you know, saying we went into 0:51:06.880 --> 0:51:07.600 that kind of deal. 0:51:07.960 --> 0:51:12.920 Wait, since we already did h a mal jam episode, 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:20.920 I correct me if I'm wrong. When Malcolm Jamal Warner 0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:24.280 left the Cosby Show, I. 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:27.759 Believe that he did. All right, you're already agreeing with me. 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:29.680 I knew when he did his episode. 0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:31.440 I didn't know the name of the show, and I 0:51:31.440 --> 0:51:35.880 didn't know if I imagined that THEO became a teacher 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:39.840 of a bunch of elementary school kids. But I definitely remember. 0:51:40.000 --> 0:51:43.440 I believe that Tennessee Yep was the theme. 0:51:43.239 --> 0:51:44.640 Song to. 0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:49.160 You know, Malcolm Joamalon Warner's. But I don't know if 0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:51.480 he was THEO or if he just played a teacher. 0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:54.600 But I believe that, Yeah, I believe he was THEO. 0:51:55.560 --> 0:51:58.680 He wasn't He wasn't THEO. And it was his first 0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:01.640 spin off spin off. It was just his first debut 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:05.160 as the star of his own show, and they they 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:08.040 did use Tennessee as his theme song. 0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:10.160 I didn't know if I imagine that or not. 0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:12.239 Yeah, we went to the taping of that. 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:14.680 Yeah, they only did like nine I think. 0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:16.919 Nine episodes, but exactly it didn't last. 0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:20.480 I forgive the name of the show or you know, 0:52:20.520 --> 0:52:25.720 it's always exactly black siico yep, facts, here we go again, 0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:27.040 starring Malcolm jamal One. 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:29.000 Right exactly. Yeah. 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:36.399 So in terms of musicianship or at least you as 0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:39.960 a producer, you know, is anyone teaching you production by 0:52:40.000 --> 0:52:40.439 this point? 0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:41.000 Yea? 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:42.680 And what were you using? What were you making tracks 0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:43.239 on the that time? 0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:46.720 Yeah, yeah, nobody taught me. Unfortunately, I wish I probably 0:52:46.719 --> 0:52:50.000 would have had that evivent though. I was on a 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:59.320 HR sixteen eleases drum Machine and uh in Sonic ASR 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:04.440 ten or before that, and then Sonic EPs sixteen, So 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:07.760 that was like my primary ways of like the whole 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:10.120 first album for instance, and second album was on those 0:53:10.120 --> 0:53:14.200 two instruments pretty much unless we hire somebody to come 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.840 in play horns, like on the song you to play 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:19.040 horns or so on and so forth. 0:53:19.080 --> 0:53:19.239 You know. 0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:24.279 Yeah, pretty much my production was from that. You know 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:25.880 those two things. 0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:30.600 So how do the other members that we know of 0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:33.840 the group speaking of like Deonne Faris and. 0:53:37.480 --> 0:53:38.560 We know headline and story? 0:53:38.640 --> 0:53:41.839 But well, first of all you said it was sort 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:45.520 of a community of people, but the rest of the 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:51.520 development that we know, how did you finally round up 0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:56.839 the final numbers in terms of word group and let's 0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:58.759 go for a record deal? 0:53:59.080 --> 0:54:00.920 And how do you can able to sign all these 0:54:00.960 --> 0:54:02.600 people like exactly? 0:54:02.640 --> 0:54:05.080 So that actually you hit it on the nail because 0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:09.080 we actually already had all of these members. But when 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:12.880 when we got signed to the deal, you can't tour 0:54:13.520 --> 0:54:16.040 with twenty members, you know what I'm saying, You can't. 0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:19.759 It's not financially feasible right for a new group to 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:23.840 go on a tour. So I had to try to 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:26.680 make the best decision as possible of who to bring 0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:29.239 out on the road and make this a sort of 0:54:29.280 --> 0:54:32.239 an official thing. In my mind at the time, it 0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:34.480 wasn't necessarily the official group members. 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:36.399 It was just the people we could take on the road. 0:54:36.400 --> 0:54:38.360 It made sense. We all had. 0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:40.520 Different roles that we could play, and this was sort 0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:43.319 of stage one, but it sort of got solidified into 0:54:43.360 --> 0:54:45.279 that because that album was so big for us that 0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:47.680 you know, those members was those members. 0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:50.399 Now we'll say Dion wasn't ever in the group as 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:53.279 a member. She was just a guest vocalist. 0:54:53.960 --> 0:54:57.400 But how me in particular, and how we as a 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:02.120 group rolled, is we we blurred the lines between who 0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:04.480 was in the group and who wasn't in the sense 0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.640 of all of our you know, appearances, all of our 0:55:07.760 --> 0:55:10.279 press tours. If she was down with us, then she 0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:11.759 was down like, come on with us, you know what 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:14.000 I'm saying, Just come rock with us, even though she 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:17.719 wasn't actually in the group. And that's how it sort 0:55:17.719 --> 0:55:19.840 of got confused that she was actually in the group. 0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:25.200 Got okay, yeah, wait, since who was the dancer? I 0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:25.919 forget her name? 0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:32.279 Yeah es she yes, okay, So how did you meet 0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:34.040 them or incorporate them into the group? 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:39.080 Yeah, yeah, so is she was? Basically she auditioned. 0:55:39.120 --> 0:55:43.040 She was thirteen years old, and we auditioned her sister 0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:45.520 who was older than her, probably about five years older 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:48.600 than her. And her sister was going on tour for 0:55:48.600 --> 0:55:50.279 the first time in her life with James Brown, I 0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:53.160 want to say, and so she couldn't do it, and 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:57.120 so she suggested her sister, her younger sister Ishi, which 0:55:57.120 --> 0:55:59.760 her real name is Tamika, and so she suggested Tamika. 0:56:00.560 --> 0:56:04.360 She came to audition for US. I actually didn't feel 0:56:04.400 --> 0:56:07.759 to Mika. I loved her dancing, but she she was 0:56:07.840 --> 0:56:10.319 dressed sort of like Quame with the polka dots and 0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:13.560 that that energy it wasn't the energy that arrested development 0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:13.879 was on. 0:56:14.000 --> 0:56:16.160 So I didn't totally feel her. 0:56:16.520 --> 0:56:19.600 Headliner, on the other hand, loved her style and her 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:22.640 vibe and felt like she could change it to the 0:56:22.680 --> 0:56:24.160 more the afrocentric vibe. 0:56:24.320 --> 0:56:25.920 And he was right. I mean, she she. 0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:28.000 Totally changed on her own, like once she got in 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:30.719 the group, she changed her whole look. She cut off 0:56:30.760 --> 0:56:33.360 her hair, she had a bald head, She was like 0:56:33.760 --> 0:56:36.360 dope as ever, and she just had this total energy 0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:36.759 that I. 0:56:36.680 --> 0:56:40.799 Totally missed, you know, but he saw that, Yeah she did. 0:56:40.880 --> 0:56:42.560 She did, you know. 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:45.400 I mean, I guess how most groups, do you know, 0:56:45.480 --> 0:56:48.279 people change their name when they start to sort of 0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:50.560 go into the entertainment realm as opposed to just using 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:51.280 like Todd Thomas. 0:56:51.320 --> 0:56:54.439 You know, I'm saying like I used speech. Her name 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:55.799 was just Tamika Gather. 0:56:55.760 --> 0:56:56.759 That that was her name. 0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:57.440 You know what I'm saying. 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:02.040 So she looked up black and and what's her name, 0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:03.120 step of emotional Ishi. 0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:05.560 So anyway, it's something like black life. 0:57:05.600 --> 0:57:08.200 I think this black life, And she looked that up 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:10.400 and came up with the name monsho Ishi. 0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:14.640 See in my mind, I thought, like, all right, speeches 0:57:14.680 --> 0:57:19.680 the ringleader. So he's like paving titles giving these titles to. 0:57:20.560 --> 0:57:22.800 No, No, not at all, not at all. 0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:25.600 The only name that I gave, and it was more 0:57:25.600 --> 0:57:28.680 of just a you know, a term of endearment, was 0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:32.280 Headliner because he was, you know, he was so dope 0:57:32.360 --> 0:57:36.160 as a barber that you know, he was known for real, 0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:39.000 like in the West End. He was that guy that 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:41.320 the line was outside of the store waiting for him 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:44.360 to cut hair. So I gave him the name headliner, 0:57:44.520 --> 0:57:46.360 which made sense to me in a sense of you know, 0:57:46.440 --> 0:57:49.400 somebody you know on the marquee being a headliner and 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:50.040 stuff like that. 0:57:50.520 --> 0:57:53.920 In y'all's episode of Unsung, you may mention of like, 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:58.040 I think your original you and Headliner's original arrangement was 0:57:58.200 --> 0:58:00.960 ninety ten. It was a space was nine year I 0:58:00.960 --> 0:58:04.120 guess teen him. That was your rationale in that in 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:07.320 terms of like division of labor, and you know what 0:58:07.600 --> 0:58:09.360 made that a fair deal to you? 0:58:11.480 --> 0:58:14.240 For me, it was a matter of, you know, I'm 0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:17.720 producing the music. I'm the main writer of the lyrics, 0:58:18.320 --> 0:58:21.600 so you know, just go back and listen to the record. 0:58:22.200 --> 0:58:25.240 And even on like Raining Revolution, right, one of the 0:58:25.280 --> 0:58:30.000 songs on the debut, I would like when the song 0:58:30.080 --> 0:58:32.560 comes on, I'm saying on the mic, Yo, this is 0:58:32.600 --> 0:58:35.480 headliner from Arrested Development, and I come here tonight to 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:39.120 give thanks to the Rain, and I'm talking, talking, talking, 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:41.720 and throughout the record, I'm saying things. I would often 0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:43.640 do that on records as a. 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:44.600 What do you call it? 0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:45.760 Reference reference? 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:50.880 It's a reference exactly right for him to come back 0:58:50.880 --> 0:58:54.360 and do it. That's my point, is that. Yeah, And 0:58:54.400 --> 0:58:58.040 so like when those things happened, these songs were concepts 0:58:58.280 --> 0:59:00.240 that I came up with on my own. 0:59:00.320 --> 0:59:01.000 So that's why. 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:05.000 And so managers generally speaking got like ten to fifteen 0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:08.160 maybe twenty percent max in my mind at that time. 0:59:08.200 --> 0:59:09.959 And I'm not saying I was a business dude, because 0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:12.400 I wasn't. I was twenty one years old, you know 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:15.480 what I'm saying. So you're along the way, right, I'm 0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:18.560 learning very much along the way. So in my mind, 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:21.720 I was like, even though you didn't write these joints, 0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:24.600 I still want to give you And that was my viewpoint. 0:59:25.480 --> 0:59:27.160 So you thought you were and I thought, but you 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:31.120 were giving him something for work that actually hadn't been facts. 0:59:31.200 --> 0:59:33.520 I mean, that's that's that was my view at the time, 0:59:33.600 --> 0:59:35.080 you know what I'm saying. So sore. 0:59:35.400 --> 0:59:37.920 So in terms of your deal, y'all's deal with Chrysalist 0:59:38.320 --> 0:59:41.600 was that who was actually signed, like on paper like 0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:42.600 to that deal? 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:46.600 Yeah, just me and Headliner were signed to that deal. 0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:50.880 And I tell you why that happened because, as I 0:59:50.920 --> 0:59:54.080 said earlier, you know, we had twenty members, so we're 0:59:54.520 --> 0:59:57.160 there's a lot of people. And so when we got 0:59:57.160 --> 1:00:00.440 the deal, which was very unexpected, but of course we 1:00:00.440 --> 1:00:03.320 were hoping for a deal, but we got turned down 1:00:03.360 --> 1:00:06.480 by all the other labels. So when this deal finally 1:00:06.520 --> 1:00:09.720 came through, which was initially a single deal actually that 1:00:09.880 --> 1:00:15.560 led to an album deal, I didn't exactly know at that. 1:00:15.600 --> 1:00:17.600 Time who was gonna be out in the road. Who 1:00:17.720 --> 1:00:19.120 is this group? You know what I'm saying. Because we 1:00:19.160 --> 1:00:23.080 got twenty people, who is the group? Like? So it 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:23.640 was tough. 1:00:23.640 --> 1:00:26.040 So I knew me and Headliner that part I knew, 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:28.800 So when it was time to sign the deal, I 1:00:28.840 --> 1:00:31.520 went ahead and did it that way, and you know, 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:34.600 obviously then things blew up. But that's that's tough because 1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:36.600 when you sign stuff, you don't know how it's gonna 1:00:36.600 --> 1:00:38.280 go at the time, Like you don't know the record's 1:00:38.280 --> 1:00:40.800 gonna go, you know, crazy and all of that. 1:00:41.360 --> 1:00:44.240 So were the members who weren't in the nucleus of 1:00:44.360 --> 1:00:48.160 arrested development? Did they wind up being you? You had 1:00:48.200 --> 1:00:49.680 an offspring group called Gumbo? 1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:52.880 Correct? Yeah, Oh I was yeah. 1:00:52.920 --> 1:00:56.640 I was like, I know, yeahbum and shit, I was 1:00:56.680 --> 1:00:58.480 about to say, I thought you had something to do 1:00:58.520 --> 1:00:58.920 with Gumbo. 1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:00.840 The rest of them members is go to Gumbo. 1:01:01.480 --> 1:01:04.480 No, So Gumbo was a whole new like to me, 1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:09.320 they were they were my like you know, family tree 1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:11.680 starting to develop a family tree, you know what I'm saying, 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:14.320 like sort of a native tongues if you will, you 1:01:14.360 --> 1:01:18.080 know where you know, they were gonna be my Fuji's 1:01:18.120 --> 1:01:20.439 in a sense, but the Fujis weren't out yet. 1:01:21.000 --> 1:01:25.520 Okay, how long did it take to source a record deal? 1:01:25.600 --> 1:01:25.680 Like? 1:01:25.720 --> 1:01:28.360 How long was the process of making a demo? 1:01:28.640 --> 1:01:28.680 To? 1:01:29.760 --> 1:01:31.960 Three years, five months and two days. 1:01:32.600 --> 1:01:34.880 Oh, so that's where the title comes from. 1:01:34.920 --> 1:01:40.080 Literally literally wow, And what songs are y'all shopping? Like? 1:01:40.120 --> 1:01:42.000 What was on y'all's demo at the time? 1:01:43.080 --> 1:01:45.280 You know, it changed over the over those years, you know, 1:01:45.360 --> 1:01:48.000 saying so when we first started shopping, it was a 1:01:48.040 --> 1:01:51.840 different version of Fisher For religion, it might have had 1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:56.320 mister Wendell, I forget, definitely not Tennessee, because in fact, 1:01:57.320 --> 1:01:59.200 the last, the last song. 1:01:59.600 --> 1:02:01.840 Yeah, it's always that way exactly. 1:02:02.080 --> 1:02:03.000 Tennessee was the. 1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:06.680 Last joint man and and it was only because I 1:02:06.720 --> 1:02:08.760 lost my grandmother, who I told you I spent all 1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:12.360 my summers with, and in that same week I lost 1:02:12.400 --> 1:02:16.760 my brother Terry, and so the last place I saw 1:02:16.840 --> 1:02:19.080 both of them was at her funeral in Tennessee. 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:21.200 So Tennessee was the last. 1:02:21.000 --> 1:02:23.440 Joint that I wrote, and it ended up being our 1:02:23.480 --> 1:02:25.280 first single, our first hit, two. 1:02:25.440 --> 1:02:29.600 Man the Prince sample in Tennessee. Yeah, how did y'all? 1:02:30.520 --> 1:02:31.400 How did y'all pull that? 1:02:31.440 --> 1:02:31.560 All? 1:02:31.600 --> 1:02:33.440 Because he wouldn't let nobody. 1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:37.680 No, no, no, actually he was, but I know he was 1:02:38.840 --> 1:02:41.360 because like Nicest Smooth used I want to be a lover, 1:02:41.480 --> 1:02:45.080 and Hammer used prey yep, oh no, they use. 1:02:45.400 --> 1:02:48.440 They used then this guy is the limited. 1:02:48.640 --> 1:02:49.680 They also use what you call it. 1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:52.880 They usedtar fishing starfishing coffee too. I forget. 1:02:53.880 --> 1:02:57.760 You know, Prince was he was against sampling at that time. 1:02:57.920 --> 1:02:59.960 You know, he didn't think it was music, you know 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:03.960 what I'm saying, and he was sort of offended. He 1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:06.080 was one of those people at the time that thought 1:03:06.080 --> 1:03:09.080 it was stealing basically. But I will say, you know, 1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:13.400 when we were released to stuff, the sampling world wasn't 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:17.600 really solidified, like the whole we were saying rumors like 1:03:17.680 --> 1:03:20.720 if you were using less than three seconds, you're you're good. 1:03:20.760 --> 1:03:22.520 If you're not using a melody, you're good. If you're 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:24.920 just using the beat, it's fine. So these were the 1:03:25.040 --> 1:03:28.320 sort of rules that were going around. It wasn't really 1:03:28.320 --> 1:03:31.040 solidified as to how that worked. And so when I 1:03:31.120 --> 1:03:35.200 sampled the word tones, see, I didn't feel like it 1:03:35.280 --> 1:03:37.640 was even a thing because I'm like, it's just the words. 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:39.440 So it's like if you use something from a record 1:03:39.480 --> 1:03:41.600 like yo, you know, or you know what I'm saying, 1:03:41.640 --> 1:03:43.240 it's like it was sort of like that. 1:03:43.280 --> 1:03:44.720 To me, it wasn't a thing, you know. 1:03:44.680 --> 1:03:45.080 What I mean. 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:48.000 That was how I was thinking at the. 1:03:47.960 --> 1:03:51.920 Time, you know, as much as a prince head that 1:03:52.000 --> 1:03:55.280 I am. I will actually say, it might have taken 1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:57.840 me like four to five months for me to even 1:03:57.920 --> 1:04:00.080 realize that was a prince sample. 1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:03.360 Right, exactly exactly. That's the other thing. 1:04:03.960 --> 1:04:11.560 Alphabet Street just one word take on the back seat. 1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:16.320 I gotta ask, I gotta ask, how much did they 1:04:16.320 --> 1:04:16.840 get you all for? 1:04:17.600 --> 1:04:19.760 So Prince did something? 1:04:19.800 --> 1:04:19.960 Really? 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:20.880 Go ahead? Go ahead, bro? 1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:26.000 No, no, typical you know, typically most groups will pay 1:04:26.200 --> 1:04:29.480 twenty five to fifty thousand and four something. 1:04:29.520 --> 1:04:31.400 But for one word. I get the feeling you're about 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:33.240 to tell me it's it's expensive. 1:04:33.280 --> 1:04:36.000 Good it was, And what he did and this is 1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:38.280 pretty this is pretty shrewd on Prince's behalf. 1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:40.600 What he did is he waited for it to hit 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:41.760 to the top of the charts. 1:04:42.280 --> 1:04:45.480 And so we had already won on the rap charts, 1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:48.400 we hit number one on the R and B charts, 1:04:48.680 --> 1:04:51.760 we got to number six, I believe on the pop charts, right, 1:04:52.160 --> 1:04:55.920 And the moment it went down to number seven, we 1:04:56.000 --> 1:04:58.080 got a call. And I'm not joking, it was literally 1:04:58.120 --> 1:05:01.120 the moment it went down, yeah, and he was like, yo, I. 1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:02.800 Want one hundred grand for that word. 1:05:03.520 --> 1:05:06.080 And at the time I thought that was crazy though. 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:08.440 I thought that was crazy, But I get him and 1:05:08.520 --> 1:05:11.040 I was young. That's him being nice, bro. And I 1:05:11.040 --> 1:05:12.120 didn't realize. 1:05:11.720 --> 1:05:15.880 That, Yeah he cut break, He cut me a. 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:17.080 Break, He cut me a break. 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:18.840 I didn't realize that he could have put some sting 1:05:18.960 --> 1:05:20.600 shit and just could ye. 1:05:20.960 --> 1:05:23.000 Yo, I was half the record, you know what I'm saying. 1:05:23.120 --> 1:05:26.200 All the publishing and all that stuff. That's all publishing yep. 1:05:26.400 --> 1:05:28.240 In those three years and stuff, did you guys have 1:05:28.360 --> 1:05:30.520 management and whatnot? And they were helping with things? Because 1:05:30.560 --> 1:05:33.720 I know, so how did the whole Michael Mauldine. 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:39.120 Yeah, so our man, Yeah, Jermaine's dad was our manager. 1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:41.520 Wow, Okay, yeah, I didn't know that. 1:05:41.560 --> 1:05:47.080 And so you know, back then we had released a 1:05:47.160 --> 1:05:51.560 record in Atlanta and pressed about two hundred copies and 1:05:51.600 --> 1:05:54.280 we were, you know, passing it around the industry people. 1:05:54.880 --> 1:05:57.360 One of those people was Ian Burke, who's a very 1:05:57.400 --> 1:06:01.160 big music dude here in Atlanta, and then he passed 1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:04.320 it to Michael Malden. Michael Maldon at that time wasn't 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:07.080 really huge. He had he was, I want to say 1:06:07.080 --> 1:06:10.800 he was managing or to be the tour manager still 1:06:10.840 --> 1:06:13.880 times Leather, which was Jermaine Dupriez's first major label signing. 1:06:15.120 --> 1:06:17.160 But they weren't huge, you know, they were just one 1:06:17.240 --> 1:06:19.520 act on a shelf of acts, you know what I'm saying, 1:06:19.960 --> 1:06:23.680 And so he said it to Michael Maldon. 1:06:24.080 --> 1:06:26.280 He was sort of just like a tour. 1:06:26.160 --> 1:06:28.520 Manager for Brick, you know, the R and B band, 1:06:29.200 --> 1:06:31.440 and he was just wanting to break off into the industry. 1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:34.640 He got the Stiltimes Leather hook up with his son, Jermaine. 1:06:34.640 --> 1:06:37.240 I knew Jermaine really well too, so you know, it 1:06:37.280 --> 1:06:39.400 was just a matter of Okay, well he's bigger than 1:06:39.400 --> 1:06:40.720 anybody else that we knew. 1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:42.120 Let's go with Michael Malden. 1:06:42.160 --> 1:06:44.800 He was dope and he got us the deal between 1:06:44.880 --> 1:06:46.800 him and his partner Philip Callaway. 1:06:51.640 --> 1:06:57.640 Are you having any social interaction whatsoever with anyone in 1:06:57.680 --> 1:07:00.240 the lineage of Atlanta hip hop by the time you 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:04.400 get down there, like are you do you know members 1:07:04.400 --> 1:07:05.320 of the Dungeon family? 1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:09.680 Do you know Drean Big Boy or the good moun guys? 1:07:09.720 --> 1:07:13.200 Like are you running to anyone that six degrees to 1:07:13.240 --> 1:07:14.200 hip hop in Atlanta? 1:07:14.240 --> 1:07:17.320 By that point, Yes, and no, no, none of the 1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:19.880 Dungeon family because I didn't know them, like they weren't 1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:23.520 a thing when we were first coming out. So when 1:07:23.560 --> 1:07:26.720 we were first coming out, it was other acts, you know, 1:07:27.080 --> 1:07:30.440 mcshi D and people like that that was really making 1:07:30.520 --> 1:07:33.720 moves in Atlanta on the local scene. And it was 1:07:33.800 --> 1:07:36.520 more like, well, as you well know, it's like that 1:07:36.640 --> 1:07:40.400 sort of Miami based type of style. One twenty beats 1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:43.280 permitted a more type of style, and it wasn't really 1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:45.320 where we were at, but we knew all these cats 1:07:45.320 --> 1:07:49.080 and all of the showcases that we did, they were 1:07:49.120 --> 1:07:51.800 on those same showcases or people like them were on 1:07:51.880 --> 1:07:54.800 those exact same showcases. So it was very much the 1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:57.480 scene of Atlanta, and we changed that, you know what 1:07:57.520 --> 1:08:01.160 I mean, like bringing a different energy to the Atlanta scene. 1:08:01.200 --> 1:08:03.280 Did you think that you had to leave Atlanta in 1:08:03.400 --> 1:08:05.160 order to make it, like we got to move to 1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:08.320 New York in order to get it a deal or 1:08:08.680 --> 1:08:09.320 la or. 1:08:10.080 --> 1:08:11.080 No, we didn't feel that. 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:13.920 In fact, I didn't go to New York until right 1:08:13.960 --> 1:08:15.040 before we got our deal. 1:08:15.200 --> 1:08:17.559 That was my first time ever being in New York period. 1:08:17.720 --> 1:08:21.559 So I felt like Atlanta had a good shot, Like 1:08:21.600 --> 1:08:22.320 we had a good shot. 1:08:22.360 --> 1:08:22.479 You know. 1:08:22.479 --> 1:08:24.599 It took us some years obviously to make some things happen, 1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:26.760 but I felt like we had a shot and there 1:08:26.760 --> 1:08:29.280 was a scene there that was very musical, very different, 1:08:29.880 --> 1:08:32.040 you know than what was going on in New York 1:08:32.080 --> 1:08:32.519 at the time. 1:08:33.640 --> 1:08:37.360 Were there any other labels that were considering you guys before, 1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:37.840 you know. 1:08:38.360 --> 1:08:41.439 I mean, we tried all the labels, but at that 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:43.599 time we were just getting turned down left and right, 1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:45.840 left and right, left and right. And this is prior 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:49.040 to like, you know, obviously Black Eyed Peas. 1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:50.599 Or PM don or any of those things. 1:08:50.640 --> 1:08:52.640 Well PM down actually did put out a record, it 1:08:52.760 --> 1:08:54.840 just wasn't it wasn't huge just yet. 1:08:55.240 --> 1:08:58.240 But yeah, so it was it was tough for them 1:08:58.240 --> 1:08:59.639 to imagine, you know what I'm. 1:08:59.560 --> 1:09:02.840 Saying, you know, because the thing is is that, at 1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:05.519 least now that I look in sort of an aerial 1:09:05.600 --> 1:09:09.120 view of it, for me, the beginning of what they 1:09:09.160 --> 1:09:11.479 call the alternative movement of hip hop starts with the 1:09:11.520 --> 1:09:16.280 Jungle Brothers, and well, you guys are technically the penultimate. 1:09:16.560 --> 1:09:19.920 I will say that it ended in my eyes with 1:09:20.040 --> 1:09:25.639 diggable planets. Really before before the I guess you could say, 1:09:25.640 --> 1:09:29.040 the eclipse of what we call the chronic came right 1:09:29.640 --> 1:09:35.080 and yeah, yeah, part of my dis not at the time. 1:09:35.240 --> 1:09:37.280 And you know, I've said this to Dre millions of 1:09:37.320 --> 1:09:39.840 times that it took me really fifteen years to really 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:43.360 open up an admit that. Okay, I like the chronic, 1:09:43.479 --> 1:09:45.280 but I hated the Chronic when it first came out, 1:09:46.160 --> 1:09:49.600 really because I saw, you know, the night that you 1:09:49.720 --> 1:09:54.120 guys when year Grammy was like, right when to Reconnie, 1:09:55.320 --> 1:09:59.960 we're starting the roots, and I was like, okay, now, 1:10:00.640 --> 1:10:05.200 you know, this is the first step into alternative hip hop, 1:10:05.280 --> 1:10:08.320 getting you know, a seat at the table. So by 1:10:08.400 --> 1:10:10.560 the time we get our thing together, it's going to 1:10:10.600 --> 1:10:13.640 be on and popping. And then after you know, and 1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:15.800 then and then diggable planets was next. I was like, 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:19.439 all right, great, first restive plant development and diggable planets 1:10:19.520 --> 1:10:21.320 and the roots the next you watch, and then we 1:10:21.400 --> 1:10:23.559 get our when we get to the train platform and 1:10:23.600 --> 1:10:27.280 the doors closed, and then we have to wait until 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:29.639 like the late nineties in order to get the second 1:10:29.680 --> 1:10:33.639 wave in. But you know, in your mind, how did 1:10:33.640 --> 1:10:37.760 you feel about the alternative hip hop tag? Because you know, 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:41.800 what I will say is that I mean people that 1:10:41.840 --> 1:10:45.519 listen to the show know kind of my obsession with 1:10:46.360 --> 1:10:51.640 sort of like journalism music journalism in particular. Yeah, and 1:10:51.760 --> 1:10:57.400 so one of the most impossible, like Steph Curry from 1:10:57.439 --> 1:11:03.599 half Shot, Eyes Closed, Op Direction, Shot going in Moments 1:11:03.760 --> 1:11:08.639 and hip hop history to me was you guys winning 1:11:09.200 --> 1:11:15.439 the Coveted Pass and Job Awards of ninety two, which 1:11:16.080 --> 1:11:17.559 you know, I don't know if you were aware of 1:11:17.600 --> 1:11:20.280 it at the time, but for those of you who 1:11:20.280 --> 1:11:24.360 don't know, you know, I'll say that Lester Bangs was 1:11:25.680 --> 1:11:28.639 the first like rock journalist that was like a star, 1:11:29.360 --> 1:11:31.800 you know, like a journalist that was bigger than he 1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:35.040 was a part of the story. Yeah, saw himself as 1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:37.760 you know, which is kind of a dangerous thing. And 1:11:37.800 --> 1:11:40.639 then after the age of Lester Bangs, then a gentleman 1:11:40.720 --> 1:11:45.080 named Robert Christigal who started working at the Village Voice, 1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:47.600 of which you know that's where like Greg Tad and 1:11:48.200 --> 1:11:50.840 all these other like black writers are coming up Dreamampton, 1:11:51.200 --> 1:11:53.680 like basically the first wave of what we'll run like 1:11:53.760 --> 1:11:57.120 the Source and Vibe in the nineties. But you know, 1:11:57.200 --> 1:12:00.679 in eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight, what's happened is 1:12:00.680 --> 1:12:03.559 is Robert Christgau is letting like a lot of black 1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:06.519 rioters get a seat at the table to start reviewing 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:08.880 hip hop. And this is the first time that I'm 1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:12.160 reading reviews, sort of said in the native tongue of 1:12:12.280 --> 1:12:13.080 like a. 1:12:13.080 --> 1:12:14.439 Black person, you know. 1:12:15.320 --> 1:12:19.559 And so when I saw y'all win the Past Job 1:12:19.640 --> 1:12:24.120 Awards and the Past Job Awards, basically Chris Degau gathers 1:12:24.240 --> 1:12:29.880 like three hundred journalists across the United States and he 1:12:29.960 --> 1:12:32.600 asked them for their top ten singles and records of 1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:37.000 the year, and it varies so to get like, the 1:12:37.040 --> 1:12:39.200 last time I seen a hip hop album win that 1:12:39.280 --> 1:12:42.559 award was a nation of millions. Before that, a hip 1:12:42.600 --> 1:12:44.760 hop album hadn't won. So when you guys won that, 1:12:46.200 --> 1:12:49.080 I was like, Yo, this is a fucking moment. At 1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:51.680 the time when you won that the Past Job Awards, 1:12:52.080 --> 1:12:54.479 did that mean anything to you or. 1:12:54.400 --> 1:12:56.080 Was it just like, oh, that's cool. 1:12:57.040 --> 1:12:57.679 Oh it's cool. 1:12:57.760 --> 1:12:59.120 I didn't even know anything about it. I fact, I 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:00.880 didn't know anything about it. You just said it down, 1:13:03.120 --> 1:13:05.360 I'm serious about it. 1:13:06.200 --> 1:13:07.000 Nothing about it. 1:13:07.120 --> 1:13:11.720 You mean, I'm telling you, I'm telling you wait time out. 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:14.639 You mean, I'm telling you right now that, like right now, 1:13:14.680 --> 1:13:17.320 you wont like three Mischelin stars for your restaurant and 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:20.559 you had no clue, no clue that you got like 1:13:20.640 --> 1:13:23.639 fives in the source and you had no no clue. 1:13:23.800 --> 1:13:26.600 I remember, I remember the past job, but like I 1:13:26.600 --> 1:13:28.680 ain't carried the white people thought like, what was the 1:13:28.720 --> 1:13:29.160 source saying? 1:13:29.240 --> 1:13:30.479 But no, no, no, no, it wasn't that. 1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:34.559 I know, I know that that's that's a very easy deflection, Fonte. 1:13:34.600 --> 1:13:38.360 But what I'm saying was Chris de Gal made it 1:13:38.400 --> 1:13:40.600 in a very even seat at the table. So this 1:13:40.680 --> 1:13:44.479 is a mixture of black critics white critics. So that 1:13:44.560 --> 1:13:49.040 ship meant a lot more to me than the A 1:13:49.800 --> 1:13:53.120 and job and instead of jazz and pop they spell 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:54.240 it passing job. 1:13:54.400 --> 1:13:55.840 Word up, you know. 1:13:55.960 --> 1:13:57.720 And I wasn't saying that it wasn't you know that 1:13:57.760 --> 1:13:58.599 it wasn't important. 1:13:58.640 --> 1:14:00.760 I just meant from the standpoint for us, for me 1:14:00.880 --> 1:14:04.599 as a hip hop fan, right, we weren't really checking 1:14:04.640 --> 1:14:06.720 for what their opinion was on hip hop, you know 1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:08.439 what I mean, Like it was just you know, that 1:14:08.560 --> 1:14:09.400 was kind of what it was. 1:14:10.040 --> 1:14:10.439 I was. 1:14:11.320 --> 1:14:12.200 I'm sorry. 1:14:13.880 --> 1:14:17.479 To me, that was like some of me like, I 1:14:18.000 --> 1:14:21.640 don't know, like, yeah, often hard to achieve, and you 1:14:21.680 --> 1:14:23.360 guys did it. But the fact that you didn't even 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:26.640 know about it no even more crazier than me. 1:14:27.479 --> 1:14:29.920 Well you know, also, I hated the term alternative hip 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:32.599 hop because I didn't. For me personally, I. 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:33.840 Didn't get it. 1:14:33.840 --> 1:14:36.920 It didn't feel like it was an alternative or an 1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:40.240 alternative to the other hip hop. Like I'm listening to 1:14:40.520 --> 1:14:44.880 like Yo bum Rush the Show album and they're sophisticated, 1:14:45.439 --> 1:14:47.800 you know, which is a rock song, and there's all 1:14:47.840 --> 1:14:50.320 these live drum loops and stuff like this on Yo 1:14:50.400 --> 1:14:53.040 bum Rush the Show record coming from Death Jam, which 1:14:53.080 --> 1:14:56.559 was obviously a very legitimized labeling hip hop, and it 1:14:56.600 --> 1:14:59.880 wasn't called an alternative record. Chuck d sounded one percent 1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:03.160 different than any in my opinion, at least any MC 1:15:03.360 --> 1:15:07.240 prior to him, and it totally you know, a flave, 1:15:07.360 --> 1:15:10.160 the concept of a flav or flave and everything he 1:15:10.240 --> 1:15:12.280 did in same with Nation of Millions to hold his 1:15:12.360 --> 1:15:15.360 back record. Don't get me wrong, it was clearly we 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:18.479 all celebrated that music. But I'm saying, like to me, 1:15:19.560 --> 1:15:23.479 if you know too much posse and these type songs 1:15:23.560 --> 1:15:27.920 aren't gonna be considered alternative hip hop, then I didn't 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:28.280 get it. 1:15:28.360 --> 1:15:32.760 I didn't get what made it so alternative or why 1:15:32.840 --> 1:15:33.479 it started with. 1:15:33.520 --> 1:15:37.320 Us, you know what, something though, If I'm really, really 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:42.519 truly honest I was twenty one when the album came out, 1:15:42.800 --> 1:15:47.639 and I didn't buy the album until mister Wendell started 1:15:47.880 --> 1:15:48.960 until after I'm plugged. 1:15:49.840 --> 1:15:52.960 Okay, then I brought the record. God I spun. 1:15:53.080 --> 1:15:56.879 I'm a DJ, so I had when I buy singles 1:15:56.880 --> 1:15:59.280 and forty five's is for the purpose of like playing 1:15:59.320 --> 1:16:02.880 in ne club. So here's the thing though, when I 1:16:02.920 --> 1:16:11.160 hear Tennessee and essentially people every day, I remember having 1:16:11.360 --> 1:16:14.400 a little hip hop debate arguments about is the rest 1:16:14.400 --> 1:16:17.320 of development a hip hop group or an R. 1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:17.840 And B group? 1:16:18.280 --> 1:16:18.800 Fucked up? 1:16:20.320 --> 1:16:24.040 He rapping I was twenty one dog but even then 1:16:24.840 --> 1:16:30.080 because he was singing, because he was delivering so melodically, I. 1:16:30.240 --> 1:16:34.200 Just in my mind rap was glo wan too throw 1:16:34.240 --> 1:16:37.200 the MIC's one Wan two want Too. 1:16:37.280 --> 1:16:38.639 And I didn't see that. 1:16:38.720 --> 1:16:41.760 So in my mind, I was like, yo, this is 1:16:41.760 --> 1:16:48.479 one of the most innovative R and B groups ever. No, hey, 1:16:48.640 --> 1:16:53.440 another disclosure, One of my first debates with Missy Elliott 1:16:54.120 --> 1:16:57.200 was over the same thing, because I made the mistake 1:16:57.240 --> 1:16:59.719 of letting my opinion on on Twitter that I didn't 1:16:59.720 --> 1:17:02.240 consent to Missy Elliott and MC. More than I considered 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:05.120 her a singer, I consider her a singer that had 1:17:05.160 --> 1:17:06.160 skills as an MC. 1:17:06.920 --> 1:17:08.920 Well she lived my dms up. 1:17:09.000 --> 1:17:13.640 Boy Wow the lyrics to the second verse or I 1:17:13.680 --> 1:17:16.599 guess the first verse of people every day? How much 1:17:16.760 --> 1:17:23.080 resistance were you on a daily basis meeting from the 1:17:23.400 --> 1:17:27.040 hip hop guard that saw you guys as weirdos. 1:17:27.800 --> 1:17:30.920 Ironically, we weren't getting, like from a in my own 1:17:30.960 --> 1:17:31.840 body experience. 1:17:31.880 --> 1:17:33.679 We weren't getting a lot of. 1:17:35.080 --> 1:17:38.320 People doubting the hip hop origin of who we were 1:17:39.280 --> 1:17:40.200 being in my own body. 1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:42.639 We were getting a lot of. 1:17:42.600 --> 1:17:46.040 Pushback from gangs to hip hop at the time. I 1:17:46.120 --> 1:17:51.559 mentioned ice Cube on people every day and Earlie to read. 1:17:51.439 --> 1:17:54.639 From our group says who after I say his name? 1:17:55.320 --> 1:17:59.320 So there's like a Now I'm meant for it to 1:17:59.360 --> 1:18:02.120 be a slight in a sense, right, because I'm trying 1:18:02.160 --> 1:18:06.120 to compare how I'm going to handle this situation compared 1:18:06.120 --> 1:18:08.559 to how Ice Cue portrayed himself. 1:18:09.120 --> 1:18:11.840 Oh exactly right. 1:18:12.560 --> 1:18:15.840 Wait a minute, now, I'm just hearing now I'm one 1:18:15.960 --> 1:18:16.680 second years old. 1:18:16.760 --> 1:18:21.200 I didn't realize that who Yep, I didn't realize it 1:18:21.280 --> 1:18:22.000 was a question. 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:24.240 I just thought, Hey, all. 1:18:24.439 --> 1:18:26.479 We all knew who Ice Cue was. Don't get me wrong, 1:18:26.720 --> 1:18:31.960 she was, but at the time. He he did, and 1:18:32.040 --> 1:18:35.879 so did therefore Snoop And so did you know others 1:18:36.000 --> 1:18:38.200 who were on the West Coast that were more so 1:18:38.360 --> 1:18:41.000 repping gangs to hip hop in a more direct way, right, 1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:45.280 So there was that sort of and not to mention 1:18:45.800 --> 1:18:48.800 every show that I did, and I'm talking about for 1:18:48.840 --> 1:18:52.760 twenty thousand people or arrested development did, I'm saying, I 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:57.519 would say that we're not calling black women bitches and holes. 1:18:57.640 --> 1:18:59.679 We don't do that. Our peers do that. We don't 1:18:59.720 --> 1:19:00.080 do that. 1:19:00.439 --> 1:19:04.120 So I'm making a very clear statement about who we are, 1:19:04.240 --> 1:19:06.960 what we're doing, and why it's different than what this 1:19:07.040 --> 1:19:12.200 dude's doing. So those types of things came off as basically, 1:19:12.280 --> 1:19:18.320 you know what I'm saying, like, Okay, you better than Yeah. 1:19:17.720 --> 1:19:19.679 What happens the first time that you meet them? 1:19:21.680 --> 1:19:25.920 Cube Cube did that signature growl look that he does? 1:19:25.960 --> 1:19:28.200 You know how he just it's it's a cover of 1:19:28.240 --> 1:19:31.160 every magazine you've ever seen. Cbe Grace, the cover of 1:19:31.720 --> 1:19:34.760 He gave me that cube scal one oh one. He 1:19:34.840 --> 1:19:38.800 gave me that scowl, right, and then Snoop gave me 1:19:38.880 --> 1:19:41.080 this sort of like cold thing at the Grammys, And 1:19:41.439 --> 1:19:43.920 it was that kind of energy iced tea. At the time, 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:47.559 me and him, prior to us really blowing up, we're friends. 1:19:48.320 --> 1:19:50.920 But after we started to blow up, he distanced himself 1:19:50.920 --> 1:19:53.559 from me. So it's those kind of things that I felt. 1:19:53.560 --> 1:19:56.040 But it wasn't necessarily the whole R and B versus 1:19:56.120 --> 1:19:58.640 hip hop thing. It was more of the stance that 1:19:58.680 --> 1:20:02.879 we were taking. And I think, now, mind you, we're eating. 1:20:03.000 --> 1:20:06.240 We're eating at this time, like we're wrapping up awards shows, 1:20:06.240 --> 1:20:06.799 So this. 1:20:06.680 --> 1:20:11.120 Is this is scary. Also said, so this is this. 1:20:11.000 --> 1:20:15.400 Is like competition now, like, okay, their stance is very 1:20:16.080 --> 1:20:18.240 juxtaposed to what we're doing. 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:22.000 And they're winning. Like this is not an underground sensation. 1:20:22.120 --> 1:20:25.400 This is something that's actually taking awards from them, like 1:20:25.439 --> 1:20:26.320 the chronic. 1:20:26.360 --> 1:20:30.120 It's become because because of the yeah, I mean, you 1:20:30.160 --> 1:20:32.320 guys owned, you guys own ninety two. 1:20:33.040 --> 1:20:34.519 Did it ever become a burden? 1:20:35.600 --> 1:20:35.720 Uh? 1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:39.880 Winning that much and selling that much? 1:20:40.200 --> 1:20:43.799 Because then again, it's also like, and I do remember 1:20:43.920 --> 1:20:47.800 like Cypress Hill went through situation where you know, the 1:20:47.840 --> 1:20:51.479 source decided to just start going out on them for 1:20:51.560 --> 1:20:54.800 their second album because they thought, like, oh, y'all ain't 1:20:54.840 --> 1:20:57.640 making hip hop for the heads. No, more like we 1:20:57.680 --> 1:21:00.479 see you know, white people dancing and slam dancing in 1:21:00.520 --> 1:21:02.840 your videos and you're doing like Wlapalooza and all this 1:21:02.880 --> 1:21:08.360 other stuff. Yeah, so were you feeling as though that 1:21:08.400 --> 1:21:09.920 you were in danger of hindering the. 1:21:09.880 --> 1:21:11.400 Group without a question? 1:21:11.840 --> 1:21:13.760 Like, for me as a leader of the group, I'm 1:21:13.760 --> 1:21:16.759 worried about that every day, Like every day, I'm worried 1:21:16.800 --> 1:21:25.840 about this, this transference of black heads and fans loving 1:21:25.920 --> 1:21:30.280 our music and it starting to transform into mainly white 1:21:30.320 --> 1:21:34.640 audiences now loving the music, mainly white critics, you know, 1:21:35.120 --> 1:21:36.000 heroin the music. 1:21:36.360 --> 1:21:38.559 It was like, oh man, what is this? What does 1:21:38.600 --> 1:21:39.120 this mean? 1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:43.719 Like because everything we're talking about is these black issues. 1:21:43.760 --> 1:21:46.880 But then the people that's starting to you know, come 1:21:46.880 --> 1:21:50.800 to all the shows is different. We did Lollapalooza, you 1:21:50.840 --> 1:21:54.479 know what I'm saying. We we did these huge which 1:21:54.520 --> 1:21:57.080 I love these festivals, don't get me wrong. Like I'm 1:21:57.120 --> 1:22:01.960 with bands that I absolutely adore, Primise and and you know, 1:22:02.760 --> 1:22:03.880 I love these bands. 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:05.520 So I'm loving this experience. 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:08.280 But it's a it's a it's a hard thing to 1:22:08.360 --> 1:22:10.040 sort of reckon, right because you're this. 1:22:11.520 --> 1:22:14.599 We're an underground hip hop group talking about black liberation. 1:22:15.640 --> 1:22:18.920 And yet we're doing these big rock tours and we're 1:22:18.960 --> 1:22:21.760 doing things that I wouldn't take back to this day. 1:22:21.800 --> 1:22:24.840 But it was tough, right to try to understand the trajectory, 1:22:24.880 --> 1:22:25.920 you know, what. 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:26.120 Was going on. 1:22:26.439 --> 1:22:30.240 Carol Lewis of course gets immortalized and paintingful. You know, 1:22:30.360 --> 1:22:33.240 Nobrie Walker's our agent. Carol Lewis is our agent, word up, 1:22:33.320 --> 1:22:38.320 indeed whatever. And so I remember the reason why my 1:22:38.360 --> 1:22:42.640 manager chose Carol Lewis is because you guys were a 1:22:42.680 --> 1:22:47.559 client and always working, and he saw the basic group 1:22:47.640 --> 1:22:50.160 that you took, you know, the festivals you were doing. 1:22:50.680 --> 1:22:53.360 And again this was unheard of at the time in 1:22:53.400 --> 1:22:57.320 the early nineties. We live now in a America just 1:22:57.360 --> 1:23:02.639 got onto festival fever. But right and so, but one 1:23:02.640 --> 1:23:07.960 of the most shocking things was you guys wanting to do. 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:12.479 A Chitlin circuit kind of. 1:23:14.120 --> 1:23:17.760 You basically wanted to un Yeah, it seemed like you 1:23:17.800 --> 1:23:24.320 wanted to undo the progress of the first album with 1:23:24.479 --> 1:23:28.600 zing Lamadouni. Because I remember this whole campaign of you know, 1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:30.240 we're going to do a Chitlin circuit or we're going 1:23:30.320 --> 1:23:32.639 to do like small clubs and that sort of hanging. 1:23:32.680 --> 1:23:36.240 I'm like, wait, a minute, y'all sold four million. I've 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:39.479 seen you guys open for en Vogue in the summer, 1:23:39.720 --> 1:23:43.280 like now it's your turn. Really, I was just mad 1:23:43.280 --> 1:23:45.920 because I wanted you guys in the shed so that 1:23:45.920 --> 1:23:50.320 way the roots get open for y'all. So I'm like, 1:23:51.400 --> 1:23:53.600 you know, I'm thinking, like, wait, why are y'all in 1:23:53.680 --> 1:23:57.080 these small venues where you're not going to make money? 1:23:57.200 --> 1:23:58.639 Like go back to the big venues. 1:23:58.680 --> 1:24:03.760 But you know, so why what was your mind the 1:24:03.840 --> 1:24:07.160 mind state of doing what you called the Chitlin circuit 1:24:07.200 --> 1:24:09.160 run for you know, the. 1:24:10.640 --> 1:24:12.840 Launch of zing A Lamaduni. 1:24:13.640 --> 1:24:16.719 I felt like we had lost track with the roots, 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:22.479 no put un intended. I felt like like we weren't 1:24:22.479 --> 1:24:24.840 connected with the people, and the machine had gotten so 1:24:26.200 --> 1:24:28.720 it became so much a part of everything that I 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:31.200 felt scared. To be honest, I felt like I was 1:24:31.240 --> 1:24:33.320 floating and my feet weren't on the ground, like I 1:24:33.360 --> 1:24:36.720 didn't know what I was connected to and so we 1:24:36.760 --> 1:24:39.880 went that direction. To me, it reminded me of what 1:24:40.000 --> 1:24:42.640 Dayla did after their success with three Feet Right, So 1:24:44.040 --> 1:24:47.920 their next record was DayLA's Dead Right. So to me, 1:24:48.479 --> 1:24:51.080 I don't know, I know them, but I've never talked 1:24:51.080 --> 1:24:53.080 to them about this, but I have a feeling that 1:24:53.360 --> 1:24:57.160 it was their way of saying, Okay, let's get back 1:24:57.160 --> 1:25:00.840 to something that has more I don't know roots for 1:25:00.960 --> 1:25:03.160 something then the whole hippie thing, Like we could take 1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:05.040 that and we could keep going with the hippie thing. 1:25:05.840 --> 1:25:08.120 But I think that they purposely wanted to kill that 1:25:08.360 --> 1:25:11.439 and go, you know, to something that they that that 1:25:11.520 --> 1:25:12.519 felt more real to them. 1:25:12.680 --> 1:25:15.160 Yeah, I say, man, I was surprised. You know, I 1:25:15.240 --> 1:25:17.200 was very surprised. I thought, ease, my mind was going 1:25:17.280 --> 1:25:18.760 to be like out of here. I thought that would 1:25:18.800 --> 1:25:20.479 be like a big yeah, you know what I mean, 1:25:20.520 --> 1:25:23.479 because I was like, okay, this is them. It sounded 1:25:23.520 --> 1:25:24.479 like y'all like, okay, this. 1:25:24.479 --> 1:25:25.280 Is this is them. 1:25:25.360 --> 1:25:27.320 But you know that was my gym. 1:25:27.400 --> 1:25:30.920 Yeah, what was the relationship with the label like at 1:25:30.920 --> 1:25:33.280 the time when y'all would make it that well, so. 1:25:33.280 --> 1:25:36.320 It was the perfect storm because the label was going 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:39.000 through huge changes, so that we just made them I 1:25:39.040 --> 1:25:39.719 don't even know how. 1:25:39.640 --> 1:25:40.920 Many millions right, right. 1:25:41.280 --> 1:25:44.559 And what tends to happen with these big labels is 1:25:44.600 --> 1:25:47.920 then their presidents start getting changed and people start getting changed, 1:25:47.920 --> 1:25:48.800 and you know. 1:25:48.800 --> 1:25:51.000 They start it brought you into building. 1:25:51.200 --> 1:25:54.040 Facts, you start losing your team and the people that 1:25:54.080 --> 1:25:57.599 you're working with. Simultaneously, the group is going through it. 1:25:57.680 --> 1:26:01.360 So internally, me and the headliner are going at war 1:26:01.400 --> 1:26:04.599 with each other behind the scenes, and we're going through everything, 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:07.760 you know what I mean, And that that was demoralizing 1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:12.840 and horrible, and the music industry was changing, you know 1:26:12.880 --> 1:26:14.960 I'm saying WU was coming in. It was a different 1:26:15.040 --> 1:26:19.120 energy from what was happening in the early nineties, and 1:26:19.520 --> 1:26:23.200 well it still was the early nineties, but like ninety 1:26:23.200 --> 1:26:26.000 one ninety two had a different energy than what would 1:26:26.000 --> 1:26:27.960 start to happen. We were becoming more and more popular, 1:26:28.080 --> 1:26:30.960 Naza's Ellmatic was hout, so it was like it's just 1:26:31.360 --> 1:26:33.800 all of those things combined made it a little bit 1:26:33.840 --> 1:26:37.120 of a different landscape, you know what I'm saying that 1:26:37.120 --> 1:26:41.400 that landscape internally group wise, musically on the outside and 1:26:41.479 --> 1:26:42.120 label wise. 1:26:42.600 --> 1:26:46.800 So with the remix for people every Day, Wait, did 1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:48.880 you make both at the same time or was it 1:26:48.960 --> 1:26:50.799 after the fact, after the album was done. 1:26:51.360 --> 1:26:54.559 After the album was done, and in fact, when Tennessee 1:26:54.640 --> 1:26:57.200 blew Up, which again was the last song we did 1:26:57.240 --> 1:27:00.800 on the album, right right, So, and so if you 1:27:00.840 --> 1:27:04.280 could imagine the whole hip hop argument versus melodic singing argument. 1:27:05.320 --> 1:27:07.519 There was not really a melodic singing record on the 1:27:07.560 --> 1:27:09.920 record on our album except for there was two songs, 1:27:10.160 --> 1:27:12.960 a song called You and a song called Rainy Revolution, 1:27:13.880 --> 1:27:16.839 but none of those were planning to be singles for us. 1:27:17.040 --> 1:27:21.599 So by the time we released Tennessee as our first single, 1:27:21.920 --> 1:27:25.479 unexpected but last minute move, it was a melodic style. 1:27:25.960 --> 1:27:30.559 It did so well that I didn't feel confident. I 1:27:30.600 --> 1:27:31.960 wanted to make a run of this, you know what 1:27:32.000 --> 1:27:34.680 I'm saying, because I wanted this to work. So I 1:27:34.720 --> 1:27:37.360 didn't feel confident that the version of People every Day 1:27:37.360 --> 1:27:39.840 that was on the record was going to do it. 1:27:39.880 --> 1:27:42.080 But the label wanted to release that as a single, 1:27:42.280 --> 1:27:44.920 People every Day. The version that's from the record, that's 1:27:44.920 --> 1:27:45.760 not the version that. 1:27:45.840 --> 1:27:48.480 Became the one. Yeah right exactly. 1:27:48.880 --> 1:27:50.840 So I was like, Yo, I'm doing the singing style 1:27:50.880 --> 1:27:51.479 on Tennessee. 1:27:52.160 --> 1:27:57.759 Let me try to basically recreate that same song, different 1:27:57.800 --> 1:28:01.439 groove and different lot of styles. So I resang it, 1:28:01.479 --> 1:28:03.280 went into the studio, brought the rest of the group, 1:28:03.280 --> 1:28:04.120 and we did that. 1:28:04.160 --> 1:28:07.000 We did that version. I felt like that was the 1:28:07.040 --> 1:28:08.280 right call, and it was. 1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:09.559 The right call. 1:28:10.240 --> 1:28:11.240 It took off question. 1:28:11.400 --> 1:28:21.519 Yeah, basically, you know between Tennessee and uh uh people 1:28:21.560 --> 1:28:25.800 every day and mister Wendell and Natural, you know, I 1:28:26.000 --> 1:28:28.920 never have that much faith in record companies for like 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:33.439 having a plan and successfully executing that plan. 1:28:34.800 --> 1:28:35.080 Either. 1:28:35.760 --> 1:28:38.719 So who's the person that's going to claim the credit 1:28:38.760 --> 1:28:41.840 of it? Was my mastermind think because you know, not 1:28:41.920 --> 1:28:45.559 for nothing. But we followed. We saw that blueprint and 1:28:45.640 --> 1:28:49.160 was like, oh, this is obviously a blueprint for success. Yeah, 1:28:49.320 --> 1:28:51.599 like well the label claim that, oh we we had 1:28:51.600 --> 1:28:53.960 a plan all along, We knew this was going to happen, Like. 1:28:54.160 --> 1:28:59.439 Yeah, I would credit a team and it was Michael Maldon, 1:29:00.439 --> 1:29:02.000 it was myself. 1:29:01.840 --> 1:29:04.200 And it was Lindsay Williams. Those are the people. 1:29:04.200 --> 1:29:07.400 Lindsay Williams was our A and R guy at Chrisli's. 1:29:07.680 --> 1:29:13.320 He also signed Gang Star and released Step in the 1:29:13.360 --> 1:29:19.479 Arena album and stuff after that. So Lindsey knew hip hop. 1:29:19.520 --> 1:29:24.559 He was from, he is from Harlem. Michael Malden knew us. 1:29:24.640 --> 1:29:27.040 He understood our vibe, and I knew us. So I 1:29:27.080 --> 1:29:30.160 feel like between us, we were sort of coming up 1:29:30.200 --> 1:29:33.040 with what should be this, how should we navigate that? 1:29:33.520 --> 1:29:35.960 And the label just really follows suit. I'll never forget 1:29:36.000 --> 1:29:38.120 being a twenty two I think I was twenty two 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:41.360 year old dude going for the first time up. 1:29:41.200 --> 1:29:43.240 To these tall high rises on. 1:29:44.000 --> 1:29:47.800 Avenue of America's New York and having these meetings with 1:29:47.880 --> 1:29:50.920 these all these execs at this long table, trying to 1:29:50.960 --> 1:29:54.160 explain to them why and how rest of development can 1:29:54.240 --> 1:29:56.799 make it, you know what I mean, And having marketing meetings, 1:29:56.840 --> 1:29:58.920 like talking about marketing strategies. 1:29:59.439 --> 1:30:04.240 So it's just it's crazy. 1:30:05.280 --> 1:30:11.599 Usually like record labels usually stories like yours in which 1:30:12.080 --> 1:30:14.280 other groups, I mean, for every it's development. 1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:18.720 I can name other alternative hip hop groups that you know. 1:30:18.760 --> 1:30:20.720 It could be the Boogey Monsters, it could be me 1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:23.760 by me, it could be shit the Roots for the 1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:27.240 first three or four records, and which the alternative But 1:30:28.040 --> 1:30:29.880 well no, no, I'm just saying which the label just 1:30:29.920 --> 1:30:33.120 doesn't have a clue on how to market. And let's 1:30:33.120 --> 1:30:36.720 be honest, a lot that was selling was also due 1:30:36.720 --> 1:30:40.360 to the momentum of a controversy. You know, if someone 1:30:41.240 --> 1:30:45.120 gets shot, if someone goes to jail, if someone has 1:30:45.200 --> 1:30:48.080 a backstory, then that's easy marketing. 1:30:48.080 --> 1:30:50.680 But that's not on the label's part. They're just exploiting 1:30:50.720 --> 1:30:51.080 that and. 1:30:51.080 --> 1:30:55.320 Always just you know, the stars was was aligning for this. 1:30:56.720 --> 1:31:01.280 You got to talk about working with in the Malcolm X. 1:31:01.439 --> 1:31:05.360 I can only imagine, like I was really excited seeing 1:31:05.400 --> 1:31:09.280 revolution for the end of it. I have to know, though, 1:31:09.400 --> 1:31:13.600 when Spike's approaching you about this in your mind, especially 1:31:13.640 --> 1:31:18.600 in nineteen ninety two, are you seeing having the flagship 1:31:18.640 --> 1:31:20.760 song for a Spike Lee film? 1:31:21.200 --> 1:31:22.120 Is it pressure? 1:31:22.240 --> 1:31:26.400 Because I mean we pretty much are thinking like, oh, 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:28.360 you got to come with someone on the level of 1:31:28.400 --> 1:31:32.000 Fight the Power something like of that level or the button, 1:31:32.080 --> 1:31:34.080 you know, like there was one point where a song 1:31:34.160 --> 1:31:39.439 associated with the Spike Lee film could elevate this, so 1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:41.280 like what is that like? 1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:43.240 Like how did that all come about? 1:31:43.320 --> 1:31:43.680 It was? 1:31:43.800 --> 1:31:50.120 It was incredibly stressful because Public Enemy smashed it with 1:31:50.439 --> 1:31:54.320 Fight the Power and the way Spike position Fight the 1:31:54.360 --> 1:31:58.760 Power throughout the film made it such a pivotal. 1:31:58.640 --> 1:31:59.960 Part of that film. 1:32:00.120 --> 1:32:03.000 I mean, it's an undeniable part of that film, right, 1:32:03.120 --> 1:32:04.880 you know, it's part of the fabric of the film, 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:06.559 not just the soundtrack, you know what I'm saying. 1:32:06.600 --> 1:32:09.760 So coming in after that was. 1:32:09.680 --> 1:32:14.200 Extremely tough and I felt a lot of pressure, you 1:32:14.240 --> 1:32:16.200 know what I mean to like to try to make 1:32:16.240 --> 1:32:19.320 sure that it was Look, I mean, Bomb Squad is 1:32:19.360 --> 1:32:20.880 a whole crew, you know what I'm saying. 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:26.080 But for me as a producer, still with that ASR ten. 1:32:26.000 --> 1:32:26.599 You know what I'm saying. 1:32:27.160 --> 1:32:31.760 In HR sixteen, Yeah, I'm striving to make sure that 1:32:31.880 --> 1:32:35.680 it has the layers and that it has the potency 1:32:36.240 --> 1:32:38.559 of something that deserves to be in this film, but 1:32:38.640 --> 1:32:42.880 also making sure that it's still us and not somebody else, 1:32:42.920 --> 1:32:44.439 you know what I'm saying, making sure it's still who 1:32:44.479 --> 1:32:46.000 we are as a group and what we do. 1:32:46.560 --> 1:32:50.280 Knowing how tenacious Spike is, you know, even for like 1:32:50.760 --> 1:32:53.000 we did a song for Bamboos or whatever, So I 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:58.080 know how Spike is in terms of him putting the 1:32:58.080 --> 1:32:58.760 pressure on you. 1:32:59.400 --> 1:32:59.839 Facts. 1:33:00.240 --> 1:33:01.920 How many times did he have to come to you 1:33:01.960 --> 1:33:05.360 to be like because even Chuck will say I think. 1:33:05.439 --> 1:33:09.360 I think Keith Shocky told me that Spike didn't like 1:33:09.439 --> 1:33:12.760 the first three drafts to Fight the Power, Yeah, and 1:33:12.840 --> 1:33:15.760 the fourth time they finally nailed it. Yeah, you know, 1:33:16.320 --> 1:33:19.200 because I was asking Keith, like why name some of 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:22.160 them fight the power and not have like the Isisley 1:33:22.200 --> 1:33:24.320 Brothers or reference of that, And he talked about like 1:33:24.360 --> 1:33:26.920 we did a whole other thing. And then Spike was like, Nah, 1:33:27.000 --> 1:33:30.479 this ain't it, This ain't it or whatever. And I 1:33:30.560 --> 1:33:34.120 often know that sometimes it's hard to take criticism from 1:33:34.200 --> 1:33:37.719 a non musician. Yeah, they just don't know or whatever. 1:33:38.400 --> 1:33:40.599 And you know, you guys have like four top ten 1:33:40.640 --> 1:33:43.160 singles at the time, so it was like you could 1:33:43.160 --> 1:33:46.519 have easily been and can't tell me Nutingville. Yeah, So 1:33:46.720 --> 1:33:49.640 like how much back and forth was it until he 1:33:49.720 --> 1:33:52.000 was like, that's it, that's the one. 1:33:52.160 --> 1:33:52.360 You know. 1:33:52.400 --> 1:33:52.880 What's funny. 1:33:52.880 --> 1:33:54.599 We didn't get a lot of back and forth from 1:33:54.600 --> 1:33:57.760 Spike on that, and he was very hands on though, 1:33:57.840 --> 1:34:00.439 so he was in the studio when we were that. 1:34:00.479 --> 1:34:03.519 He was shouting revolution. He insisted that it be an 1:34:03.560 --> 1:34:07.519 anthem right from the jump, and so he really trusted 1:34:07.520 --> 1:34:10.760 in me to deliver and he didn't give me any 1:34:11.560 --> 1:34:14.000 The only only fighting back that he gave me was 1:34:14.040 --> 1:34:16.519 the video because I wanted to have a more militant 1:34:16.640 --> 1:34:19.760 video and he shoot it. Yes, he shot it. He 1:34:19.760 --> 1:34:22.200 shot it in Brooklyn. We shot it in Brooklyn with him. 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:25.840 It was amazing experience. We shot that entire video in 1:34:25.880 --> 1:34:27.880 seven hours and if you look at that video again, 1:34:28.200 --> 1:34:31.479 you'll see probably two, three, four five hundred people, I'm 1:34:31.479 --> 1:34:33.880 not sure, marching down the street with us in one 1:34:33.880 --> 1:34:37.160 scene another to maybe one or two hundred people in 1:34:37.160 --> 1:34:39.439 a classroom with us in the school. I mean, there's 1:34:39.479 --> 1:34:41.280 a lot of sets and we did all of that 1:34:41.400 --> 1:34:46.920 in seven hours. Just amazing, amazing. So yeah, it was 1:34:46.960 --> 1:34:51.600 definitely his hands on experience all over it. But he 1:34:51.600 --> 1:34:53.920 didn't give me a lot of fight back. And prior 1:34:53.960 --> 1:34:58.000 to us, Gangstar had did It's a jazz thing for 1:34:58.600 --> 1:35:02.680 Mobetta Blues and that that took a little bit of 1:35:02.680 --> 1:35:06.479 the pressure off. But for me personally, as big as 1:35:06.520 --> 1:35:08.960 the group, our group was, I was really wanting to, 1:35:09.760 --> 1:35:12.080 you know, go somewhere near that fight the power energy. 1:35:12.760 --> 1:35:15.880 Okay, all right, I gotta ask the question. 1:35:16.920 --> 1:35:22.120 So again, long time listeners know of my journalism obsession, 1:35:23.360 --> 1:35:28.080 so without really getting into the specifics of it, I 1:35:28.160 --> 1:35:30.360 kind of want to ask you about the aftermath of it. 1:35:30.960 --> 1:35:34.840 And we actually did an entire episode with Danielle Smith, 1:35:35.280 --> 1:35:38.120 writer and at the time I was living in London 1:35:39.479 --> 1:35:45.479 and there weren't American publications, uh they you know, it 1:35:45.520 --> 1:35:49.160 was hard to get you know, now like everything's digitally colonized, 1:35:49.160 --> 1:35:51.960 so I can get the same magazines that you're getting 1:35:52.000 --> 1:35:55.400 all across the world. So you know, I'm getting care 1:35:55.479 --> 1:35:59.760 packages from my publicists in the States to London, and 1:35:59.800 --> 1:36:02.439 of course, you know, the Princess you A Vibe magazine 1:36:02.439 --> 1:36:10.400 comes out, and you know, I had never experienced a 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:20.120 black takedown article before, and I internalized, like I almost 1:36:20.120 --> 1:36:22.360 felt like that was my group she was talking about. 1:36:22.479 --> 1:36:26.479 I think maybe these questions I'm asking you simply because 1:36:26.560 --> 1:36:31.360 like vicariously, I was living in your footsteps and whatnot, 1:36:31.400 --> 1:36:34.200 and Okay, what they do, that's what I'm doing, and 1:36:34.840 --> 1:36:38.519 they do that, students that stuff. And then so you know, 1:36:38.880 --> 1:36:40.800 I get the magazine. I read the Prince article and 1:36:40.840 --> 1:36:43.400 everything I was like, all right, read the rest of 1:36:43.439 --> 1:36:44.720 development article. 1:36:44.520 --> 1:36:47.200 And Trouble in Paradise was I was. 1:36:47.280 --> 1:36:51.400 Like, yo, like, you know, I'm used to in black journalism. 1:36:51.520 --> 1:36:53.680 I'm used to like ride on magazine, you know what 1:36:53.720 --> 1:36:58.160 I mean, Like, Hey, what opposites do you find attractive 1:36:58.160 --> 1:37:01.479 in the opposite sex? And what kind of foods do 1:37:01.520 --> 1:37:06.320 you like? So this level of journalism I'd never seen before. Yeah, 1:37:06.640 --> 1:37:08.519 I've never seen a takedown And for those of you 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:12.360 who know, takedown article is kind of where I believe 1:37:12.439 --> 1:37:16.680 the artist doesn't realize that they're being ambushed facts in 1:37:16.760 --> 1:37:20.320 the interview. Can you walk me through the process from 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:25.960 which you found out that this article was not going 1:37:26.040 --> 1:37:30.320 to be the glowing A plus report card that a 1:37:30.400 --> 1:37:33.599 re development had been getting up until that point. 1:37:34.560 --> 1:37:36.960 Yeah, like what can you just walk me through it? 1:37:37.160 --> 1:37:38.920 Like it was? 1:37:39.200 --> 1:37:44.800 It was literally a kick in the ass because I 1:37:44.960 --> 1:37:47.880 was cool with Danielle, Like she came to it at 1:37:47.920 --> 1:37:51.160 last and she said this. We hung out with Danielle 1:37:51.160 --> 1:37:53.800 and it was all love, Like it was so much love. 1:37:53.880 --> 1:37:57.200 And we needed that article because we had already been 1:37:57.240 --> 1:37:59.640 facing backlash. We had already been getting a lot of 1:37:59.680 --> 1:38:02.760 different narratives about where we're going, who we are. Not 1:38:03.200 --> 1:38:06.599 from a like internal group like any beefs going on 1:38:06.640 --> 1:38:08.600 in a group, but just from a standpoint of what 1:38:08.640 --> 1:38:10.920 I was saying earlier, as far as you know, now 1:38:10.920 --> 1:38:13.479 we're sort of these pop music darlings, which we never 1:38:13.520 --> 1:38:15.840 were on that tip, but that's what we had sort 1:38:15.880 --> 1:38:16.880 of become to some extent. 1:38:16.920 --> 1:38:17.760 We're winning all these. 1:38:17.680 --> 1:38:21.040 Awards, We're going to these big lollapalooza rock tours and 1:38:21.080 --> 1:38:25.120 all of this. So that article was dear to me, 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:28.880 and it for me, it was a sister, a black 1:38:28.960 --> 1:38:32.000 sister that's come down to Atlanta to hang with us, 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:36.280 so she had total access to everybody. And long story 1:38:36.320 --> 1:38:37.439 short goes on to me. 1:38:37.800 --> 1:38:39.280 Oh, is that always the protocol? 1:38:39.520 --> 1:38:43.240 Like because even now, like me and Tarique do the 1:38:43.320 --> 1:38:46.240 Roots interviews, there's eleven of us, but right now it's 1:38:46.280 --> 1:38:48.080 micking Keith right. 1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:52.799 You you felt comfortable and just letting hey talk to everybody. 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:53.679 I did. 1:38:53.960 --> 1:38:56.439 I did, and you didn't know I was coming. 1:38:57.160 --> 1:39:01.200 Not at all, Like that was one hundred one of 1:39:01.240 --> 1:39:04.880 those like damn when I read it is when I 1:39:05.000 --> 1:39:08.800 knew that that's what the take was, because that's not 1:39:08.920 --> 1:39:12.599 what I was getting from Danielle in person like eye 1:39:12.600 --> 1:39:15.400 to eye right and with the other members with me 1:39:15.479 --> 1:39:19.160 too by the way, so like we're with her and 1:39:19.240 --> 1:39:21.599 I'm not getting that now, min she talks to everybody 1:39:21.600 --> 1:39:24.680 separately as well, and you know this article starts to. 1:39:26.640 --> 1:39:29.920 Listen. There was there was. 1:39:31.120 --> 1:39:34.640 Turmoil in the group. I'm not denying that, but that 1:39:34.840 --> 1:39:37.320 wasn't the narrative of where we even were at as 1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:39.800 a group. So we were going through turmoil, but we 1:39:39.800 --> 1:39:42.000 were marching on, like that's where we're at. 1:39:42.600 --> 1:39:44.400 Going through y'all were going through turmoil, but y'all weren't 1:39:44.400 --> 1:39:45.040 trying to sell it. 1:39:45.720 --> 1:39:48.439 We were definitely not trying to sell it. And also 1:39:48.640 --> 1:39:51.680 we weren't it wasn't the major narrative of where we 1:39:51.680 --> 1:39:54.360 were at as a group. It was a narrative. It 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:58.400 was a narrative, but it wasn't the narrative. So when 1:39:58.439 --> 1:40:01.000 I saw that article and it was the narrative of 1:40:01.080 --> 1:40:06.080 the entire article, I was like, I lost my faith 1:40:07.120 --> 1:40:11.840 in journalism from that point forward because I was like, damn, 1:40:11.960 --> 1:40:14.400 like that was like you said, it was a takedown. 1:40:15.320 --> 1:40:17.000 And I don't know what she said. 1:40:17.000 --> 1:40:18.960 I don't even if y'all addressed this when you interview her, 1:40:19.000 --> 1:40:22.559 but it even had to been some type of thing 1:40:22.600 --> 1:40:24.640 where you know, it's it was a good look for 1:40:24.720 --> 1:40:27.320 her to do some kind of story or maybe or 1:40:27.400 --> 1:40:29.479 boss or Uppers was like yo, come in at this 1:40:29.560 --> 1:40:31.400 way or whatever. I don't know what it was, but 1:40:31.439 --> 1:40:31.720 it was. 1:40:32.360 --> 1:40:32.880 It was crazy. 1:40:32.880 --> 1:40:35.000 You know, I don't want to put words in Dan 1:40:35.200 --> 1:40:37.960 Danielle's mouth, but I definitely I don't. 1:40:38.200 --> 1:40:41.799 I can't even write it. It wasn't it. 1:40:41.680 --> 1:40:44.000 Wasn't a yeah I did it, and so what like 1:40:44.240 --> 1:40:49.920 it was definitely a remorseful, like sort of afterthoughts, and 1:40:49.960 --> 1:40:52.160 she explained, like you you have to understand that I 1:40:52.200 --> 1:40:55.640 wasn't coming mean spirited. I believe that there was a 1:40:55.680 --> 1:40:59.280 pressure to not make and again, you know, as I 1:40:59.280 --> 1:41:05.639 explained earlier, or black journalism before the source, before Vibe 1:41:05.680 --> 1:41:11.040 magazine was basically just limited to either Ebony magazine where 1:41:11.080 --> 1:41:15.360 everything was glowing or ride On magazine, where everything was kind. 1:41:15.200 --> 1:41:18.720 Of frothy, you know what I mean, but not like 1:41:19.960 --> 1:41:20.960 real journalism. 1:41:21.360 --> 1:41:21.760 And so. 1:41:23.320 --> 1:41:27.200 I remember her feeling, like I believe she said that 1:41:27.320 --> 1:41:30.960 it was a very conflicting thing to do, like as 1:41:31.200 --> 1:41:37.360 a journalist, do I tell the truth or do we 1:41:37.400 --> 1:41:39.800 protect because you know, also I know the rules of 1:41:39.840 --> 1:41:43.200 black people is that you don't spill your dirty laundry 1:41:43.240 --> 1:41:45.040 in front of the world to see. 1:41:45.240 --> 1:41:47.840 And me reading. 1:41:47.479 --> 1:41:55.240 That article made me uber obsessive in terms of who 1:41:55.280 --> 1:41:58.200 we talked to, Like that was the points. That was 1:41:58.240 --> 1:42:03.840 the point in which I started, you know, studying every journalist, 1:42:03.920 --> 1:42:06.920 every botty line, looked at other articles they wrote. 1:42:07.400 --> 1:42:08.080 Even to this day. 1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:10.760 I mean, I'm not as vigilant now as I was, 1:42:11.520 --> 1:42:16.639 but yeah, it just for me, I was just like, yo, 1:42:17.160 --> 1:42:21.120 like this group is might might never recover from this, 1:42:21.439 --> 1:42:25.960 How we didn't How did you so mentally and physically 1:42:26.000 --> 1:42:30.800 to go that high and then to be in a 1:42:30.840 --> 1:42:36.599 car crash that wasn't by your intentional design, It's still 1:42:36.600 --> 1:42:40.559 a car crash. Nevertheless, how did you guys continue with 1:42:40.680 --> 1:42:44.160 promoting the album or like, was it a rap after that? 1:42:44.520 --> 1:42:45.519 It was a rap after that? 1:42:45.680 --> 1:42:50.080 I mean, by and large, And so for me, I'm 1:42:50.120 --> 1:42:53.080 I'm literally pissed at her, Like dude, I saw her. 1:42:53.880 --> 1:42:56.720 I saw her at events and I literally, you know, 1:42:56.760 --> 1:42:59.679 I'm saying I won't go there, and I was pissed 1:42:59.680 --> 1:43:02.200 and I didn't talk to her at all. I just 1:43:02.680 --> 1:43:06.280 I was literally bitter towards her. I think for me, 1:43:06.360 --> 1:43:12.479 it was the first time I saw sensationalistic journalism. For me, 1:43:13.760 --> 1:43:16.519 it was my first introduction to it. So, like you said, 1:43:17.160 --> 1:43:21.679 articles prior were one thing and different magazines covered things 1:43:21.880 --> 1:43:24.879 in one way. But after I saw that, I was like, oh, okay, 1:43:26.360 --> 1:43:28.479 because it's one thing to say the truth about there's 1:43:28.520 --> 1:43:31.760 some beef going on behind the scenes. To me, I 1:43:31.840 --> 1:43:33.719 think I was cool with that, Like I was alright 1:43:33.800 --> 1:43:36.280 with that, and that's why I was allowing everybody to speak. 1:43:37.439 --> 1:43:41.320 But to make the whole trajectory of the story. It 1:43:41.400 --> 1:43:44.760 damaged us and Vibe was very much a huge deal 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:49.360 at the time, and from a black perspective, we needed 1:43:49.400 --> 1:43:52.559 that co sign at the time, like we needed that 1:43:52.640 --> 1:43:56.360 from a marketing standpoint for this group. We needed that 1:43:56.439 --> 1:44:01.679 love in order to you know, validate the direction we're 1:44:01.720 --> 1:44:04.719 continuing to go with and without it, it was tough. 1:44:05.080 --> 1:44:07.640 It was really no circle back for you and Danielle. 1:44:08.800 --> 1:44:11.400 I mean at this age I'm now fifty four. Yeah, 1:44:11.439 --> 1:44:13.880 I could summer black with her, but but. 1:44:13.880 --> 1:44:16.599 I'll be honest, like during that time period, probably for 1:44:17.760 --> 1:44:20.280 probably ten years probably I couldn't talk to her. 1:44:20.560 --> 1:44:21.640 Those are our petty years too. 1:44:21.720 --> 1:44:24.400 Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean, I couldn't. I 1:44:24.400 --> 1:44:25.040 couldn't do it. 1:44:25.160 --> 1:44:27.880 You talked about around like ninety six, like when you 1:44:27.920 --> 1:44:31.080 did your solo record and you know you were you know, 1:44:31.160 --> 1:44:32.719 you were feeling suicidal at the time. 1:44:33.439 --> 1:44:34.840 What took you to that mind stake? 1:44:35.520 --> 1:44:37.280 I think it was what you just talked about. 1:44:37.360 --> 1:44:40.040 Quest was like it was the drop and how far 1:44:40.120 --> 1:44:42.200 it was, you know what I mean Like that that's 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:44.719 tough to digest for any person. 1:44:45.000 --> 1:44:47.720 In my opinion, Yeah, dude, I was gonna say, we 1:44:48.080 --> 1:44:51.439 that's You're literally the first person to call me to 1:44:51.479 --> 1:44:55.320 do something, so I forgot like you did a first project. 1:44:55.439 --> 1:44:56.800 It was my first music video. 1:44:56.880 --> 1:45:00.360 I was in your video you Fully be Myself. 1:45:00.240 --> 1:45:01.599 You Foley Dallas Austin. 1:45:02.240 --> 1:45:03.840 That's right. He was playing keyboards, right. 1:45:03.800 --> 1:45:06.320 Yep, he was playing organ on Ramone. 1:45:06.360 --> 1:45:08.599 Harvey was your manager. I remember you and Ramone honking 1:45:08.680 --> 1:45:08.960 me up. 1:45:09.560 --> 1:45:10.120 Yeah, you and. 1:45:10.080 --> 1:45:13.000 Ramone picking me up from the hotel exactly. 1:45:13.120 --> 1:45:13.320 Yeah. 1:45:13.439 --> 1:45:14.559 I didn't want here to speak. 1:45:15.040 --> 1:45:16.640 Yeah, yeah, I mean, but I mean I was a 1:45:16.680 --> 1:45:20.320 fan of y'alls already, Like before I met you. The 1:45:20.400 --> 1:45:23.400 label showed me y'all's album and was like, Yo, peep 1:45:23.479 --> 1:45:27.200 this out. So I was a fan already. And at 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:30.040 that time the label that was no longer Christalist, it 1:45:30.080 --> 1:45:32.920 was called EMI and it was sort of morphine and 1:45:33.040 --> 1:45:35.559 D'Angelo was signed as well, but he wasn't out yet. 1:45:35.840 --> 1:45:37.400 So I was hearing a lot of the stuff that 1:45:37.439 --> 1:45:39.800 they was about to go into the direction of. And 1:45:39.840 --> 1:45:41.599 that's how I knew about y'all. So I was like, yo, 1:45:41.680 --> 1:45:44.040 I love this group. And so that's why I know 1:45:44.160 --> 1:45:44.920 reached out to you. 1:45:45.880 --> 1:45:47.800 For y'all when you were talking about you know, being 1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:50.439 in that like kind of deep depressive period. 1:45:51.080 --> 1:45:52.360 What got you out of it? How did you get 1:45:52.360 --> 1:45:52.680 through it? 1:45:53.479 --> 1:45:56.960 You know, it was through time but also spirituality. In 1:45:57.080 --> 1:45:59.800 ninety six, I released my solo album. In ninety six, 1:46:00.520 --> 1:46:04.680 I was very suicidal and a woman that I auditioned 1:46:04.720 --> 1:46:08.200 for a tour I was doing in Amsterdam was a 1:46:08.280 --> 1:46:11.719 Christian and she started talking to me and my wife, 1:46:12.040 --> 1:46:15.000 and long story short, I became a Christian and that 1:46:15.120 --> 1:46:18.439 truly saved my life and truly made me think of 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:22.680 things differently and see myself as valuable outside of wherever 1:46:23.120 --> 1:46:27.160 a record was at and where you know, whatever the 1:46:27.200 --> 1:46:29.920 industry was saying in my music career was going. So 1:46:30.280 --> 1:46:32.400 I saw a value outside of that. 1:46:32.400 --> 1:46:35.360 That changed my ninety six was also around the time 1:46:35.400 --> 1:46:37.120 I used to see you on campus. So you were 1:46:37.120 --> 1:46:39.719 going through all kinds of enlightening. 1:46:39.600 --> 1:46:43.280 Facts, and that was I went back to school at Clark. 1:46:43.600 --> 1:46:45.400 I never went to Clark prior, but I went to 1:46:45.439 --> 1:46:49.800 school in general, back to college to really, like to 1:46:50.760 --> 1:46:53.479 I wanted to be around academia in a sense, and 1:46:53.520 --> 1:46:55.599 I wanted to be around that sense of learning and 1:46:55.680 --> 1:46:59.240 curiosity and things that I felt was more pure in life. 1:46:59.640 --> 1:47:01.760 Wait, you two weren't to Clark at the same time 1:47:02.560 --> 1:47:03.040 he went. 1:47:02.880 --> 1:47:04.960 To Clark as speech emir very brave. 1:47:05.720 --> 1:47:06.600 What was that like? 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:09.920 I dream of going back to college, but time won't 1:47:09.960 --> 1:47:12.960 allow that. So what is that like? Like not starting 1:47:12.960 --> 1:47:13.400 over again? 1:47:13.439 --> 1:47:16.519 But just yeah, it was tough because we had already 1:47:16.520 --> 1:47:19.240 blown up. This is prior to Zingo LAMADOONI, but it 1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:23.640 was after three years album so we're huge. I'm very noticeable, 1:47:23.800 --> 1:47:27.719 very known, and so it was tough and our schedule 1:47:27.800 --> 1:47:32.080 was absolutely insane. So honestly, I could only stay for 1:47:32.120 --> 1:47:34.360 a semester. I had to drop back out because it 1:47:34.520 --> 1:47:37.760 just was it wasn't doable pretty long term unless I 1:47:37.760 --> 1:47:39.800 would have quit the industry, which I wasn't willing to 1:47:39.800 --> 1:47:40.960 do it that at that point. 1:47:41.000 --> 1:47:44.320 So, yeah, you were still actively releasing music and you 1:47:44.400 --> 1:47:48.000 guys were, you know, still there. There was a momentum 1:47:48.040 --> 1:47:51.720 and outside of the United States facts you know very much. 1:47:51.800 --> 1:47:54.000 So yeah, Mace did the same thing, though I don't 1:47:54.000 --> 1:47:55.600 know what it is about Clark, but Mace went to 1:47:55.600 --> 1:47:57.679 Clark after he was Mace too. 1:47:57.520 --> 1:48:02.320 So yeah, reach your Mace, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I 1:48:02.320 --> 1:48:05.479 think his ministry was in the was on Clark initially. 1:48:05.560 --> 1:48:11.599 Yeah, thirty years into this business, can you tell me, like, 1:48:11.720 --> 1:48:12.920 what have you learned? 1:48:13.960 --> 1:48:15.960 What have you like? 1:48:16.160 --> 1:48:19.759 What your overall experiences in terms of what you learned, 1:48:20.360 --> 1:48:23.840 things that you could have changed, or experiences that you've had. 1:48:23.920 --> 1:48:26.920 I didn't even ask about, like what does success feel 1:48:26.960 --> 1:48:30.040 like in nineteen ninety two ninety three amongst the people 1:48:30.080 --> 1:48:33.519 you meet, Like did you even have an inner circle? 1:48:33.640 --> 1:48:36.960 Like did you become friends with other artists or not? 1:48:37.200 --> 1:48:40.760 Or so to answer that last part, yes or no. 1:48:40.840 --> 1:48:43.759 I mean I was cool with, you know, certain artists, 1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:47.360 but not really friends friends because everybody was in the 1:48:47.360 --> 1:48:49.799 East coast or West coast and we was down in Atlanta, 1:48:49.840 --> 1:48:51.760 and it just was a different energy. You know, back 1:48:51.800 --> 1:48:53.960 then hip hop was still very divided. You know, it 1:48:54.000 --> 1:48:56.439 was West coast, East coast. The South was still not 1:48:56.600 --> 1:49:00.160 thoroughly respected. If you remember Andre's speech at the awards, 1:49:00.000 --> 1:49:03.519 It's like and that was that was after us, So 1:49:04.000 --> 1:49:08.120 imagine prior to that, how little respect you know, the 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:09.599 South got in many ways. 1:49:09.720 --> 1:49:12.559 So so the answered the question, no, I don't think so. 1:49:12.600 --> 1:49:16.360 And also I'm a very like everyday people kind of guy, 1:49:16.800 --> 1:49:21.439 so by nature I didn't find super value in hanging 1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:24.640 with like clicks in the industry type thing like that. 1:49:24.760 --> 1:49:25.439 Wasn't my thing. 1:49:25.640 --> 1:49:27.400 So if we if we clicked, it was good, but 1:49:28.080 --> 1:49:30.559 that just not that that wasn't what I was searching 1:49:30.600 --> 1:49:31.240 for in a sense. 1:49:31.560 --> 1:49:34.479 So you weren't going like making pilgrimage in New York 1:49:34.520 --> 1:49:37.000 to go record shopping with blah blah blah blah blah 1:49:37.120 --> 1:49:39.599 or no, and when you come to Atlanta, come hang 1:49:39.640 --> 1:49:40.200 with us, And. 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:42.920 Yeah, I would start doing that later, like much later, 1:49:43.280 --> 1:49:45.120 but no, I wouldn't. I wasn't doing that. 1:49:45.120 --> 1:49:45.559 At the time. 1:49:45.720 --> 1:49:47.960 Does the Atlanta hip hop community look to you to 1:49:48.200 --> 1:49:50.160 know that you kind of like kind of started this 1:49:50.280 --> 1:49:51.920 ball rolling in a way, like do you feel the 1:49:52.000 --> 1:49:53.519 respect from Atlanta in net work? 1:49:54.080 --> 1:49:56.960 Yes, and no just when they meet me in person. Know, 1:49:57.000 --> 1:50:01.280 when it comes to documenting it like whenever there's a 1:50:01.320 --> 1:50:04.400 documentary about Atlanta, somehow we're sort of left out of 1:50:04.439 --> 1:50:07.320 it and it starts with organized noise and it starts 1:50:07.320 --> 1:50:10.679 without castid goodie Mobb, it's funny, let. 1:50:10.600 --> 1:50:13.160 Me go on record to give you the flowers and 1:50:13.560 --> 1:50:17.040 basically says that, yeah, you know, and we really haven't 1:50:17.360 --> 1:50:19.879 running to each other all that much because it would. 1:50:19.680 --> 1:50:21.720 Have been in person, by the way, in Atlanta, if 1:50:21.760 --> 1:50:25.240 speech was in Atlanta when we was getting Lantah. Yeah, 1:50:25.280 --> 1:50:26.760 he was gonna be party Atlanta run. 1:50:26.840 --> 1:50:30.519 Yeah, okay, facts facts, Yeah, I see, I see. 1:50:30.600 --> 1:50:33.719 I'm sorry, I mean interrupted wisdom. No, God, go ahead, no, no. 1:50:33.640 --> 1:50:34.920 No, but I'm just saying that. 1:50:35.120 --> 1:50:39.720 Yeah, no, I I do acknowledge that you guys, you know, 1:50:39.840 --> 1:50:44.320 planted a seed and oftentimes, yeah, history doesn't remember pioneers 1:50:44.360 --> 1:50:47.599 like often people that come after the fact and sort 1:50:47.600 --> 1:50:50.920 of perfect a formula, that sort of thing. They get 1:50:50.960 --> 1:50:53.400 the flowers and they get the accolades, and you know, 1:50:53.600 --> 1:50:57.680 you guys definitely, whether people really want to admit it 1:50:57.800 --> 1:51:01.559 or not, Like you know, you guys are onsible for 1:51:01.640 --> 1:51:04.439 a movement. You're definitely responsible for the movement that I'm 1:51:04.479 --> 1:51:09.440 still allowed to participate, you know, thirty years later into 1:51:09.520 --> 1:51:09.960 my life. 1:51:10.000 --> 1:51:13.040 So I definitely I thank you for that. Man. 1:51:13.520 --> 1:51:16.240 Well, that means everything. It really does. It means a lot. 1:51:16.800 --> 1:51:19.479 And then you just do a show with Christian and Tariq. 1:51:20.320 --> 1:51:20.559 Yeah. 1:51:20.600 --> 1:51:22.360 I did a show in New Jersey at the Pack 1:51:22.479 --> 1:51:29.200 Center with Black Thought with Yah seen with Christian. 1:51:29.120 --> 1:51:30.760 Showed up on time. 1:51:31.439 --> 1:51:33.800 He did he actually was on time, he was before time. 1:51:33.840 --> 1:51:36.479 Actually he rocked. He did his thing. Rak Kim was 1:51:36.479 --> 1:51:38.719 supposed to be on it and he broke his foot 1:51:38.800 --> 1:51:41.760 our ankle, and then Chuck d was supposed to be 1:51:41.800 --> 1:51:43.120 on it he got COVID. 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:45.559 So but you killed it. 1:51:45.840 --> 1:51:50.599 So have you had any communication whatsoever with the the 1:51:50.640 --> 1:51:53.160 initial original members of the band? 1:51:53.800 --> 1:51:55.559 What's the relationship like now? 1:51:56.000 --> 1:51:57.280 It's dope. It's dope. 1:51:58.400 --> 1:52:01.560 It's never gonna be like it was in the early days. 1:52:01.720 --> 1:52:04.040 But we're like mad, cordial with one another. 1:52:04.160 --> 1:52:04.519 Mad. 1:52:05.080 --> 1:52:07.160 You know, when we see each other, it's literally like 1:52:07.200 --> 1:52:10.559 seeing an old best friend. Right, So, in particular me 1:52:10.560 --> 1:52:13.600 and Headliner, because that's where the main split was, you 1:52:13.600 --> 1:52:15.120 know what I mean, and the group sort of split 1:52:15.160 --> 1:52:17.679 on one side or the other according to that main split, 1:52:17.760 --> 1:52:22.080 you know what I'm saying. So Headline and I were cool, 1:52:22.200 --> 1:52:24.840 you know what I mean. The issues are what it was, 1:52:24.920 --> 1:52:27.639 and I don't think it will ever not be there. 1:52:27.680 --> 1:52:29.160 But we're real cool and. 1:52:29.960 --> 1:52:32.559 You know, like if he has issues with his family, 1:52:32.560 --> 1:52:34.200 I'm the first to call him and try to see 1:52:34.200 --> 1:52:36.240 what I could do, you know what I'm saying, and 1:52:36.320 --> 1:52:39.160 to help a vice versus. So there's a lot of 1:52:39.200 --> 1:52:41.559 love there and I think as the older we've gotten, 1:52:42.040 --> 1:52:45.519 the more we're able to dead the stuff that you 1:52:45.560 --> 1:52:47.800 know is sort of irrelevant in the gist of time, 1:52:47.880 --> 1:52:48.960 you know, as time moves on. 1:52:49.800 --> 1:52:52.880 Well, not to hint too much, but you know, it 1:52:52.960 --> 1:52:57.320 is kind of the thirtieth anniversary of that movement. 1:52:57.640 --> 1:53:01.040 So if there ever was a time to. 1:53:02.560 --> 1:53:06.240 Sort of rekindle or respark or flame whatever, like, you know, 1:53:06.880 --> 1:53:12.920 just having participated in an event in which we're celebrating 1:53:12.920 --> 1:53:15.040 our history. And I know, I know hip hop has 1:53:15.080 --> 1:53:20.040 a lot of disdain for being seen as old or 1:53:20.080 --> 1:53:24.839 ancient or sages or whatever. You know, the non sexy 1:53:24.920 --> 1:53:30.040 term is for for having age of wisdom. But I've learned, 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:33.680 probably after the Grammy experience, how important it is to 1:53:35.080 --> 1:53:37.639 acknowledge and celebrate a history. 1:53:38.280 --> 1:53:40.519 And I agree you guys have that. 1:53:40.560 --> 1:53:45.200 So I you know, I really hope that one day 1:53:45.360 --> 1:53:48.200 I see it all come back full circle because you 1:53:48.200 --> 1:53:51.240 know the world needs that, because I still I still 1:53:51.280 --> 1:53:54.040 spend the music and the magic. 1:53:54.160 --> 1:53:56.920 You know, the magic still works, you know. 1:53:58.680 --> 1:54:02.720 Pility sixty. We were thinking, we're thinking, no, I. 1:54:02.680 --> 1:54:05.200 Mean, it's it's way He's gotten way better than that. 1:54:05.320 --> 1:54:06.800 Now we've worked all of that out. 1:54:06.840 --> 1:54:10.160 Now also, it can really oh make it happen. Oh, 1:54:10.400 --> 1:54:12.200 last question, this is such a random question. But you 1:54:12.240 --> 1:54:14.439 talked about land and stuff in Georgia earlier, and I 1:54:14.479 --> 1:54:17.080 was just curious if you're linked in with those families 1:54:17.080 --> 1:54:19.000 that bought that ninety seven acres in Georgia. 1:54:19.680 --> 1:54:24.360 No, but I that that movement has been something that's important. 1:54:24.000 --> 1:54:28.400 For nineteen black families bought ninety seven acres for a 1:54:28.439 --> 1:54:31.320 safe space for black people. They're building a community. So 1:54:31.640 --> 1:54:33.560 I was just seems so in speeches like. 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:35.640 Lane, it doesn't have anything to do with doctor yorick. 1:54:35.880 --> 1:54:40.320 No, no, no, what nope, and it's dope houses too, 1:54:40.440 --> 1:54:41.960 dope they they're building it. 1:54:42.320 --> 1:54:44.840 Well, I'll send you an article on mereor yeah, I 1:54:44.840 --> 1:54:45.680 want to see about that. 1:54:46.640 --> 1:54:50.560 Well speech brother, brother, thank you, thank you for taking 1:54:50.600 --> 1:54:54.440 the time out just to speak with us, and thank you. 1:54:54.440 --> 1:54:56.280 You know again you're a legend and I thank you, 1:54:56.320 --> 1:54:58.000 thank you, thank you so much for for doing this 1:54:58.040 --> 1:55:01.800 with us. This is q US, y'all another classic episode, 1:55:02.400 --> 1:55:07.120 uh speech our guests on the show, Sugar Steve, thank you, speech. 1:55:07.280 --> 1:55:12.760 Man, thank you' all, thank you, And I'll send you 1:55:12.840 --> 1:55:14.920 then article on me of course. 1:55:14.760 --> 1:55:18.200 On on behalf. I know once I hang up, I 1:55:18.240 --> 1:55:20.080 know it's like a question. I forgot to ask I 1:55:20.120 --> 1:55:20.880 know you. 1:55:22.040 --> 1:55:27.720 Last question, Oh yes, can we horseshoes? 1:55:35.440 --> 1:55:38.320 What's Love? Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. 1:55:40.920 --> 1:55:44.200 For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 1:55:44.400 --> 1:55:47.480 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.