Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus.
Speaker 2: Global business, finance and tech news.
Speaker 1: The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim
Speaker 1: Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 3: Our first hour all about China dominating the global financial
Speaker 3: and geopolitical headlines throughout the week, including with its response
Speaker 3: to our international cover story. As Bloomberg Business Week editor
Speaker 3: Joe Weber secured an exclusive interview with Taiwan's vice president
Speaker 3: and leading presidential candidate in the upcoming elections. We're talking
Speaker 3: about ly Ching Dung.
Speaker 4: It was his first sit down with international media and
Speaker 4: it focused on his plans for keeping peace with China
Speaker 4: and Carol, this interview caught Beijing's attention almost as soon
Speaker 4: as it was published. We actually got word of it
Speaker 4: just before our broadcast on Tuesday when we read off
Speaker 4: the statement from China's Taiwan Affairs Office on air.
Speaker 3: We did, indeed, China called a complete trouble maker. That's
Speaker 3: a quote seeking Taiwan independence and that his comments on
Speaker 3: so called maintaining the peaceful status quo or totally a lie.
Speaker 3: That statement also said quote such a person will only
Speaker 3: bring risks of fierce war.
Speaker 4: With more on the conversation and on Taiwan, which is
Speaker 4: one of the most prosperous places in the world, we
Speaker 4: should note is Joel Weber. Joel, congratulations on this incredible piece.
Speaker 4: I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you were
Speaker 4: actually there doing this. Talk to us a little bit
Speaker 4: about how this came together and take us behind the scenes.
Speaker 5: So I've got amazing colleagues, We have amazing colleagues in Taipei,
Speaker 5: and they kind of had just reached out to tell
Speaker 5: me more about the overall election, which isn't until January,
Speaker 5: but in the turbulent Taiwanese politics, you.
Speaker 2: Kind of want to get in on this stuff early.
Speaker 5: The last time the presidential election happened, it was a
Speaker 5: pretty big flip actually, so we wanted to kind of
Speaker 5: establish the presidence for our reporting and our bureau in
Speaker 5: the region there, and so I said, well, what do
Speaker 5: we want to talk about, and they said, well, Liai
Speaker 5: Jung Doa is the front runner and he's the current
Speaker 5: vice president, and he's really the person that we should
Speaker 5: talk about, and I often think when there's a really
Speaker 5: chaotic or turbulent thing in the world. In this case,
Speaker 5: I think it's probably the most complicated geopolitical situation that
Speaker 5: you can imagine, and dropping into it as I did,
Speaker 5: revealed how complicated it is. It helps to have like
Speaker 5: a little bit of a rock that you can kind
Speaker 5: of tell that story through, and that's what we were
Speaker 5: able to do with Lia and I had a series
Speaker 5: of exclusive interviews with him. It's all tied to his transit,
Speaker 5: which gets to a thing that's part of the geopolitical complexity.
Speaker 2: That I mentioned.
Speaker 5: If you're a Taiwan ees official or elected official, you
Speaker 5: can't just do a round trip flight from Taiwan to
Speaker 5: anywhere in the US. You have to transit, which means
Speaker 5: that you have a stopover, which is effectively an extended layover.
Speaker 5: So he did that last weekend through New York en
Speaker 5: route to Paraguay. Paraguay happens to be one of the
Speaker 5: dwindling number of official sort of diplomatic countries that Taiwan
Speaker 5: has formal alliances with, the other ones China has strategically
Speaker 5: managed to flip in recent years. So Hondura Squadmala. These
Speaker 5: are countries that were once on Taiwan's side and have
Speaker 5: flipped to Beijing's corner. So Beijing is in Taiwan. Is
Speaker 5: really what this story is about. And you know, for
Speaker 5: a long time that prosperity that you mentioned, that was
Speaker 5: because there is this really effective triangle where Taiwan would
Speaker 5: have manufacturing in China export to the US. Everybody prospered
Speaker 5: for decades. That worked until China started to reassert it.
Speaker 5: And that's where we come into this upcoming election because
Speaker 5: as China's asserted itself, Taiwan, which is a self governing
Speaker 5: island democratic Beijing, looks at that and says, we're the
Speaker 5: Republic of China Taiwan, which also did I mention how
Speaker 5: complicated the geopolitical part of this was.
Speaker 3: I can only imagine the conversation that you had with him,
Speaker 3: how careful you were in terms of how you phrase things, because.
Speaker 5: We know, watch the video, you can see me checking
Speaker 5: my notes.
Speaker 3: No, you're but I mean the question of war, the
Speaker 3: potential if China invades, and that is certainly you know,
Speaker 3: something that was obviously top of mind here big.
Speaker 5: Time, and look like the stakes for this election actually
Speaker 5: couldn't be higher. I think the global economy is absolutely
Speaker 5: dependent on Taiwan, and that is large part because of
Speaker 5: the semiconductor industry. Something like ninety percent of chips come
Speaker 5: from Taiwan. We learned how important that was during the
Speaker 5: pandemic when we had the supply chain carnage. And you know,
Speaker 5: Taiwan is just instrumental and if you if you don't
Speaker 5: have those chips, I think we look at living would
Speaker 5: be living in a version of the world that would
Speaker 5: be like nineteen eighty seven or something like that, right.
Speaker 1: Like total reset.
Speaker 5: So Taiwan incredibly important to that.
Speaker 6: You're gonna ask me.
Speaker 3: Something, No, no, Can we share a little bit of
Speaker 3: your interview?
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's do it. Okay.
Speaker 3: We have some of Joel's exclusive interview with Taiwan's vice
Speaker 3: president and they talk specifically about the importance of support
Speaker 3: from the West and keeping peace with China. Check it out, everybody.
Speaker 7: Jesus also way the ools, we must abide by the truth,
Speaker 7: which is what I mean by pragmatism. It is that
Speaker 7: Taiwan is already a sovereign, independent country called the Republic
Speaker 7: of China. It's not part of the People's Republic of China.
Speaker 7: The ROC and PRC are not subordinate to one another.
Speaker 7: It is not necessary to declare independent English shimpud.
Speaker 5: What is your roadmap to formal independence.
Speaker 6: Anyway? Well, it's it and just where the Taii Shenzwan.
Speaker 7: My responsibility is to maintain the status quo in the
Speaker 7: Taiwan Strait while protecting Taiwan and maintaining democracy, peace and prosperity.
Speaker 7: So no such framework exists. We must work to maintain
Speaker 7: the peacefull status quo because Taiwan is already a sovereign country.
Speaker 5: China keeps pushing on the status quo, and it keeps pushing.
Speaker 5: It's fire a missile over Taiwan to cross the median
Speaker 5: line in the Taiwan Street, and its simulated a naval blockhead.
Speaker 6: What is your red line, thai shinzwang? The chinsu jinzung.
Speaker 7: Increased tensions impacting the status quo in the Taiwan Strait
Speaker 7: have not originated from Taiwan. They are due to China's
Speaker 7: growing assertiveness. China not only seeks to annex Taiwan, it
Speaker 7: also hopes to change the international rules based order. Under
Speaker 7: these circumstances, we must be clear Taiwan's security is of
Speaker 7: international concern. Peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait is
Speaker 7: aligned with the international interesting because challenges in the Taiwan
Speaker 7: Strait are a global concern, a global red line will
Speaker 7: also be Taiwan's red line and my personal red line.
Speaker 5: You've said provocative things in the past that will be
Speaker 5: of interest in Washington. How have you changed is.
Speaker 7: I have been part of President Sai's national security team.
Speaker 7: Together with the US government, we have responsible and clear
Speaker 7: channels of communication. We are able to share information effectively,
Speaker 7: understand where the issues are, and cooperate in resolving them.
Speaker 7: This election is about choosing between two roads. One way
Speaker 7: is to continue engaging and cooperating closely with the international
Speaker 7: community while deepening our democracy. The other choice is to
Speaker 7: accept the one China principle and stand together with China.
Speaker 7: I believe the US will continue to support us on
Speaker 7: the first Pathe means.
Speaker 5: How confident are you that the US will have Taiwan's
Speaker 5: back should the situation with China escort?
Speaker 6: I mean, well so, Taiwanda jupong Il.
Speaker 7: The US is a close friend of Taiwan. We are
Speaker 7: partners in a number of areas, from politics, the economy,
Speaker 7: human rights to our society.
Speaker 6: In with Taiwan, the ANJUNGUNTI.
Speaker 7: Because Taiwan's security challenges are a global concern. The upkeep
Speaker 7: of peace and stability in both the Taiwan Straight and
Speaker 7: the Indo Pacific region fulfills the common interests of the
Speaker 7: international community. I believe that all democracies in the world,
Speaker 7: including the US, would be aware of how to respond
Speaker 7: if such a scenario were to take place.
Speaker 3: And that, of course was Taiwan's Vice president Laichingdong, I
Speaker 3: think was presidential candidate, as we've said, for the upcoming
Speaker 3: election in Taiwan elections, I should say, of course. Talking
Speaker 3: in an exclusive interview with the editor of Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 3: Jill Weber.
Speaker 4: Jill, one thing that I was struck with struck by
Speaker 4: in the piece is the changing view Taiwanese people have
Speaker 4: about themselves, about their own identity in the piece and
Speaker 4: what they consider themselves. Talk to me a little bit
Speaker 4: about how that's evolved in recent years.
Speaker 5: Complicated question, But you know, Taiwan actually views itself as
Speaker 5: the Republic of China Taiwan, and that is rooted in
Speaker 5: the history of Taiwan, which basically was this military standoff
Speaker 5: and the Taiwanese left mainland China and basically have never
Speaker 5: been under Beijing's authority. Right, So the longer that this
Speaker 5: has gone on, the more that the Taiwanese identify as
Speaker 5: Wines and less as Chinese. And that's sort of reflected
Speaker 5: in some of the point that you're referring to.
Speaker 3: Business Wek editor Jill Weber on his exclusive with Taiwan's
Speaker 3: sitting VP and top presidential candidate La Chinda. It's our
Speaker 3: international cover story this week. That full interview. Check it
Speaker 3: out available online at Bloomberg dot com and of course
Speaker 3: always on the Bloomberg terminal. Joel by the way back
Speaker 3: with us next hour coming up.
Speaker 4: As time Wan thinks about its relationship with Beijing, the
Speaker 4: rest of the world is taking stock of China's role
Speaker 4: in the global economy.
Speaker 8: We probably will see China grew at an even slower pace,
Speaker 8: and if, of course, at risks and crises continue to
Speaker 8: take plays, we may be looking at a China that
Speaker 8: grows at one percent.
Speaker 4: The managing director at China beige Book International breaks down
Speaker 4: the ominous data. Next, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 4: this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
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Speaker 3: So another twenty four hours, another batch of Chinese headlines.
Speaker 3: As you just heard in our chat, it's just simply
Speaker 3: the continued weakness and inability of China to kick up
Speaker 3: their once very reliable growth machine. The worries continuing tim
Speaker 3: on news that one of China's biggest shadow bank skip
Speaker 3: payments on several investment products, sparking rare protests in Beijing
Speaker 3: as a fallout from a deepening property slump spreads to
Speaker 3: the financial sector, and this has been the worry. Is
Speaker 3: this potentially China's great financial crisis? Not saying it is,
Speaker 3: We're just questioning.
Speaker 4: That's a question We're going to continue to ask. The
Speaker 4: liquidity challenges we are seeing in China underscore how troubles
Speaker 4: in the property sector and China's weakening economy and now
Speaker 4: spreading deeper into the financial industry. Many trust products are
Speaker 4: backed by real estate projects run by troubled developers such
Speaker 4: as China Evergrand Group and.
Speaker 3: Then tim We learned Thursday that Evergrand followed for Chapter
Speaker 3: fifteen bankruptcy protection in New York, that move shielding it
Speaker 3: from creditors in the United States while it works on
Speaker 3: a restructuring deal elsewhere, And that followed the earlier news
Speaker 3: in the week of China's Central Bank having interest rates
Speaker 3: by the most in three years in a bid to
Speaker 3: revive growth. A lot going on so with us to
Speaker 3: discuss China's fundamental economic backdrop is Shazad Kazi, Managing director
Speaker 3: at China beij Book International. They were founded back in
Speaker 3: twenty ten to help institutional investors in corporate CEOs navigate
Speaker 3: China's notoriously black box economy. China beij Book has developed
Speaker 3: its own private in country data collection network to track
Speaker 3: the Chinese marketplace, gathering real time economic data from thousands
Speaker 3: of firms across all of China's region sectors and thirty
Speaker 3: four discrete industries. We spoke with Shazad on Wednesday and
Speaker 3: asked for his response to President Joe Biden's recent remarks
Speaker 3: in which he referred to China's economy as quote a
Speaker 3: ticking time bomb.
Speaker 8: I don't fully agree with the president's statement. All those sorts.
Speaker 8: The President has it more right than many China watchers
Speaker 8: who do this for a living. What's going on in
Speaker 8: China is that you've got a structural slowdown in place.
Speaker 8: So Chinese economy is well past the years where it
Speaker 8: used to grow in the double digits, for sure, but
Speaker 8: even something like six percent seven percent growth is now
Speaker 8: you know, behind us. The growth that we're looking at
Speaker 8: into the future for China is probably something between three
Speaker 8: to five percent in the in the next four or
Speaker 8: five years, and beyond that we probably will see China
Speaker 8: grow at an even slower pace. And of course risks
Speaker 8: and crises continue to take place. We may be looking
Speaker 8: at a China that grows at one percent, perhaps some
Speaker 8: years doesn't grow at.
Speaker 4: Is this just a factor of a maturing economy or
Speaker 4: is the concern that the reopening was a disaster and
Speaker 4: that there are structural issues there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there are a couple of things going on. The
Speaker 8: first one is that the old Chinese growth model, which
Speaker 8: everybody I think has been trained on, which is that
Speaker 8: you ramp up credit, you ramp up investment, and you
Speaker 8: juice that to get a high level of growth, that
Speaker 8: has really run out of road. Even if today Chinese
Speaker 8: policy makers were to continue doing big stimulus and big
Speaker 8: fiscal spending, they wouldn't be able to get those growth
Speaker 8: rates again anyway. So there's that structural component of it
Speaker 8: inevitable slow down. And that said that's taking place. However,
Speaker 8: there has been a very important change that I think
Speaker 8: has gone largely underappreciated still by markets. That's the Chinese
Speaker 8: policy makers, I think President Shee on down have decided that, look,
Speaker 8: we don't want that old growth model. We want something
Speaker 8: that's much more sustainable and much more healthy. And that
Speaker 8: means that we need to de risk the system. We
Speaker 8: need to really work on de leveraging, we need to
Speaker 8: deflay the property bubble, and we need to transition the
Speaker 8: economy towards a consumer driven economy rather than just this
Speaker 8: big industrial behemit that China is. How to ever get
Speaker 8: there is a separate question.
Speaker 3: Well, I was just going to say, you know that,
Speaker 3: are they right to pursue that to have something more sustainable?
Speaker 3: Although one percent growth longer term to me sounds like
Speaker 3: a bit of a bummer for it for one of
Speaker 3: the world's largest economies.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think there's you know. The smart thing to do,
Speaker 8: of course, was to start working on this economic transition,
Speaker 8: probably even sooner than they did. It just happens to
Speaker 8: be that they started really working on it with the
Speaker 8: COVID crisis ongoing as it is, And so you're getting
Speaker 8: this bit of a double ammy right now, right with
Speaker 8: a cyclical downturn, COVID induced pressures, and of course the
Speaker 8: structural flow down all happening more or less at the
Speaker 8: same time. The fact is, the world would be much
Speaker 8: better off with the Chinese economy that was importing more
Speaker 8: than it does and exporting less than it does. And
Speaker 8: you know that would have farm You know, that would
Speaker 8: be far more beneficial for countries around the world. They
Speaker 8: should absolutely be working on it. I'm just not sure
Speaker 8: they put in all the right policy policies in place
Speaker 8: even right now though, to be able to successfully accomplish that.
Speaker 3: Why would the world be Why would the overall world
Speaker 3: be better off with the Chinese economy that was importing
Speaker 3: more rather than exporting.
Speaker 8: Well of the world's biggest markets by population size alone, it's,
Speaker 8: you know, the thing that companies have been waiting on
Speaker 8: for decades, not to be able to sell more and
Speaker 8: more into China. But the problem, by the way, is
Speaker 8: that they just don't have the income levels rising there.
Speaker 8: The private sector is not at a place where it
Speaker 8: can absorb a lot of the young graduates and create
Speaker 8: high paying jobs, and so that transition is going to
Speaker 8: take a long time, beginning with support to the private sector,
Speaker 8: which is just not coming.
Speaker 4: Hey, Shasatt, I wanted to ask about politics and what
Speaker 4: you're hearing on the ground about the way that people
Speaker 4: view the Chinese Communist Party and how economic issues economic
Speaker 4: challenges could lead to a challenge of their power.
Speaker 8: Yeah. I tend to be very very bearish on the
Speaker 8: idea that the ongoing economic crisis and really is a
Speaker 8: multi crisis at this point, is going to threaten the
Speaker 8: long term control of either you know, President She or
Speaker 8: the Communist Party. I think there's been a lot of
Speaker 8: work done to consolidate power. There is nowhere nobody within
Speaker 8: the party today even who could challenge President She, let
Speaker 8: alone outside of the party, which is a very small
Speaker 8: probability event. I don't foresee the current economic challenges of
Speaker 8: China stay thing as threatening the party's control. It may
Speaker 8: sour people on the party. I think China, you know,
Speaker 8: maybe may see more, you know, unrest, may see more
Speaker 8: protests building up, but I just don't think we're in
Speaker 8: a place where the party uses its controller it's even
Speaker 8: remotely front.
Speaker 3: So soada, I have to go back to where you
Speaker 3: said the world would be better off of the Chinese
Speaker 3: economy that imports more. You know, increasingly, though it does
Speaker 3: feel like President she He is all about cultivating, developing
Speaker 3: the domestic economy. I understand the import of that. How
Speaker 3: does though, I mean, companies have been clamoring for thirty
Speaker 3: forty decades to get into China and tap that domestic market,
Speaker 3: and it increasingly looks like anybody who's not a Chinese
Speaker 3: based company will not benefit much unless you're Elon Musk potentially,
Speaker 3: So I'm trying to understand how the world ultimately benefits
Speaker 3: at present, GE's goal is to produce domestically and then
Speaker 3: sell to its domestic you know, to sell to its people,
Speaker 3: especially if it feel like the tensions that continue increasingly
Speaker 3: cut China off from the world.
Speaker 8: You're certainly right about the fact that both of the
Speaker 8: American companies of Western corporations that have made long term
Speaker 8: China that actually has eventually, especially in the automotive industry,
Speaker 8: even I mean, you know, in Elon's facing a lot
Speaker 8: of problems with having to do pristcepts and so forth. Yes,
Speaker 8: they absolutely ultimately will lose market share to their domestic
Speaker 8: rivals with the states back. I think there are sectors
Speaker 8: where that is more true, and then there are public
Speaker 8: sectors where that is less true. I don't see today
Speaker 8: the goal of the Communist Party to be this completely
Speaker 8: self serving type of entity where they produce and sell
Speaker 8: to themselves and they have no foreigner liance whatsoever. Done
Speaker 8: That's not the model that we're looking at. So I
Speaker 8: think as China were to become, if China were to
Speaker 8: actually become a more prosperous country, bring down inequality levels,
Speaker 8: become a higher income country, they would be importing the
Speaker 8: kinds of services and not just actual goods, but you
Speaker 8: know other services that are the developed world today does
Speaker 8: if you look at the luxuries market, you could potentially
Speaker 8: see that getting bigger. Obviously, we know that there are
Speaker 8: all sorts of reliance and even basic things like foodstuffs
Speaker 8: that China remains very much dependent on. So I think
Speaker 8: it's not even just China importing, but what is China importing.
Speaker 8: It's not just commodities and oil and iron ore, but
Speaker 8: other iron of all these.
Speaker 3: Things, Shazad got to be really fast. Fifteen twenty seconds.
Speaker 3: What would make you get really nervous at maybe China's
Speaker 3: having its own great financial crisis? Be very quick.
Speaker 8: If a range of these major developers are allowed to
Speaker 8: fail and fail completely, I don't think it's going to happen.
Speaker 8: I don't think we get a Leman moment or a
Speaker 8: great facial crisis in China. It's not a commercial sector.
Speaker 8: The stable step in to provide support, even if it's
Speaker 8: import So great to.
Speaker 9: Check in with you.
Speaker 3: Shazad Kazi, Managing director at China beise Book International, joining
Speaker 3: us on zoom Thank you so much.
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Speaker 3: China's top leaders pledge this week to expand semester consumption.
Speaker 3: Support the private sector, support that you want. There's a
Speaker 3: lot going on. Bottom line, it is all about attempts
Speaker 3: to boost confidence in the Chinese economy as market sinc
Speaker 3: and concerns grow over the property market, continued concerns really
Speaker 3: and potential financial fallout as a result, and then growth
Speaker 3: just continuing to disappoint in the Chinese economy. As we
Speaker 3: continue our discussions on the many challenges facing the People's Republic,
Speaker 3: we bring in a familiar voice to help us understand
Speaker 3: how things have gone so far away.
Speaker 4: We've got back with us Dexter Roberts. He's Director of
Speaker 4: China Affairs at the Mansfield Center at the University of Montana.
Speaker 4: He's also an award winning journalist former Bloomberg a BusinessWeek
Speaker 4: China Bureau chief. His book The Myth of Chinese Capitalism,
Speaker 4: The Worker, the Factory, and the Future of the World,
Speaker 4: was chosen as one of the Economists Best Book of
Speaker 4: the Year for twenty twenty. Very pleased to have him
Speaker 4: back with us, joining us from Missoula, Montana. Well, you know,
Speaker 4: whenever we got you back, we know that it's because
Speaker 4: there's something big going on in China, and this has
Speaker 4: been happening for a while, and if we wanted you
Speaker 4: to get back with us for a while. We spent
Speaker 4: some time with Shazadkazi earlier from China Baige book, give us,
Speaker 4: you know the thirty thousand foot view here, somebody who
Speaker 4: spent so much time in China. What your impression now
Speaker 4: is a former insider now an outsider. What you're seeing
Speaker 4: happen and what you're hearing from your sources on the ground.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I think what China's really dealing with with
Speaker 10: all this bad economic news we're hearing is trying to
Speaker 10: work out some serious structural challenges. So this is not cyclical,
Speaker 10: by the way, means that the latest surprise rate cut
Speaker 10: on Tuesday, I'm not confident is going to help much.
Speaker 10: So China's in the midst of this is from the
Speaker 10: ten thousand feet up, It's in the midst of this
Speaker 10: transition from its previous investment and debt driven economic model
Speaker 10: to one they hope would be much more driven by
Speaker 10: household consumption, and they are really struggling with that. Confidence
Speaker 10: amongst counsels and amongst companies is a huge challenge. Still
Speaker 10: today it actually mirrors.
Speaker 3: Very much so what Shazad said to us, this whole idea,
Speaker 3: the world would be so much better with the Chinese
Speaker 3: economy that imports more and that you have this domestic
Speaker 3: economy that is spending a domestic home front, if you will,
Speaker 3: that is spending more on stuff kind of maybe more
Speaker 3: to some of the developed world. So tif many of
Speaker 3: us are outsiders, haven't spent the time in China like
Speaker 3: you have.
Speaker 11: We see these.
Speaker 3: Headline it feels like a lot. It feels like, you know,
Speaker 3: we're hearing about the potential for Chinese contagion. How do
Speaker 3: you think we should be smart in terms of reading
Speaker 3: these headlines?
Speaker 10: Well, I think one thing we have to keep in
Speaker 10: mind is that as long as the leadership in Beijing,
Speaker 10: and I'm thinking particularly the very top leaders in chi
Speaker 10: Jinping continue to have this focus on politicizing the economy
Speaker 10: and basically masterminding from above how they want things to change,
Speaker 10: and that includes the latest and the latest news about
Speaker 10: more instructions to investment bankers, economists and company officials to
Speaker 10: make sure they don't say negative things about the economy.
Speaker 10: But then obviously this extends much further into the economy.
Speaker 10: As long as they keep doing that, I think these
Speaker 10: changes we see, you know, on a weekly, monthly basis,
Speaker 10: are not going to make a lot of difference. And
Speaker 10: by the way, that politicization of the economy has huge
Speaker 10: repercussions within China as well. We see it with this,
Speaker 10: We've hit with wealthy people voting with their feed if
Speaker 10: you will, and trying to move broad including moving their
Speaker 10: capital abroad.
Speaker 4: But does it actually move the needle when it comes
Speaker 4: to the power that the Chinese Communist Party has, Shazad said, no,
Speaker 4: it doesn't.
Speaker 10: Well, I think that's the issue. The Communist Party is
Speaker 10: more powerful than it has been in literally decades. I
Speaker 10: was there for almost twenty five years, and I never
Speaker 10: saw anything like this, even as the Communist Party did
Speaker 10: interfere in the economy. But they're really they've moved it,
Speaker 10: moved it to a whole new level of medaling, if
Speaker 10: you will, in the economy. And I think that's a
Speaker 10: reality we're going to be dealing with for quite a
Speaker 10: while as long as we have Shi Jumping continued to
Speaker 10: be in charge here.
Speaker 3: A company that is constantly meddled in to me, maybe
Speaker 3: has limits ultimately, especially if you're trying to attract investors
Speaker 3: or outside investors. Maybe China doesn't need outside investors, I mean,
Speaker 3: will it ultimately, I mean, does it need to be
Speaker 3: kind of part of the open world capitalistic society or
Speaker 3: can it just do it on its own?
Speaker 10: I think that it cannot do it on its own,
Speaker 10: and unfortunately, the top leadership seems to think that they can.
Speaker 10: They talk a lot about self reliance and thinking that
Speaker 10: they can go it alone, but they really can't. I mean,
Speaker 10: we've seen this with the Biden administration's policies and restrictions
Speaker 10: on the advanced semiconductor industry. These really really hurt China.
Speaker 10: China needs the world, needs the technology, needs the investment
Speaker 10: technology in particular to keep moving up the value chain
Speaker 10: and technology and particularly things like advanced semiconductors. And so
Speaker 10: I don't think they can go a go it alone
Speaker 10: at this point at all.
Speaker 3: Hey, So when you know, Tim and I talked earlier
Speaker 3: because this story kind of struck me, and we know
Speaker 3: it's been coming because it's not new. But the Apple
Speaker 3: supplier Fox Con beginning iPhone and fifteen products in India
Speaker 3: really ramping up efforts. We see stuff like that. Is
Speaker 3: that exactly what China wants because they want to be
Speaker 3: on a higher plane in terms of technology. They don't
Speaker 3: want to be just manufacturing everything. So is that okay?
Speaker 3: Or is that something that's going to be problematic for
Speaker 3: China short term, longer term, I don't know.
Speaker 10: I think that China is very aware of the value
Speaker 10: of having global supply chains run through China, and as
Speaker 10: companies like Apple turn to other places like India and
Speaker 10: move more production there is that is a concern of Beijing.
Speaker 10: So they you know that the very low end things,
Speaker 10: they already left your textiles and your toys, and China
Speaker 10: was very happy to see that go as it moved
Speaker 10: to Southeast Asia a decade ago. But if you look
Speaker 10: at big companies like Apple, and I think that at
Speaker 10: that point China's thinking this is very important to us.
Speaker 10: They also happen to be, of course, huge employers. Fox
Speaker 10: Con is the biggest private employer in China.
Speaker 4: Interesting to see the iPhone fifteen news and I mean, look,
Speaker 4: and we know that that fox Con has been building
Speaker 4: handsets and products in India for a few years now,
Speaker 4: but to see him take a flagship product like this,
Speaker 4: the iPhone fifteen, and start production on that in India
Speaker 4: is certainly a really big deal tiff. Okay, so let's
Speaker 4: talk about contagion here. To what extent should the world
Speaker 4: be concerned that stresses on the Chinese economy are going
Speaker 4: to spill out across its borders.
Speaker 10: I think we, unfortunately do need to be very worried China.
Speaker 10: You know, for the first time in well other than
Speaker 10: one month at the beginning of the pandemic, it was
Speaker 10: the first time since a global financial crisis back in
Speaker 10: two thousand and nine, we see deflation both in consumer
Speaker 10: prices and factory gate prices last month, and China, I
Speaker 10: think is that you know, China has is is going
Speaker 10: to export deflation to the world. We had Janet Yellen
Speaker 10: say recently that the Chinese economy was a quote risk
Speaker 10: factor for the US economy the fifth corporate profits around
Speaker 10: the world.
Speaker 3: So you're writing a front page story today on China.
Speaker 3: What's the headline?
Speaker 10: The headline is surprise Rake doesn't convince global market China
Speaker 10: downward spiral continues.
Speaker 3: Nicely said, Wow, okay, great.
Speaker 4: I've experienced as a journalist, an award.
Speaker 3: Winning one at that, Tiff, thank you so much, Always appreciated.
Speaker 3: Dexter Roberts Tiff Roberts, director of China Fairs at the
Speaker 3: Mansfield Center at the University of Montana. As we said,
Speaker 3: award winning journalist, former Bloomberg Business Week, China be You
Speaker 3: Our Chief. His book out in twenty twenty, The Myth
Speaker 3: of Chinese Capitalism, The Worker, the Factory, in the Future
Speaker 3: of the World.
Speaker 4: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Up next, we look
Speaker 4: at how US economic sanctions are weighing on one of
Speaker 4: its chief rival's most important tech companies, even as both
Speaker 4: confront a common threat.
Speaker 12: The challenge of trying to not be distracted from the
Speaker 12: mission of cybersecurity, progress, assurance the geopolitics by the pressure
Speaker 12: there needs to be these kinds of strong standards in
Speaker 12: independent testing for anybody, because the band guys can hack
Speaker 12: into everyone. So we cannot put our guard down by thinking, well,
Speaker 12: we've blocked companies from this country. That's not going to
Speaker 12: make a safer and so we have to make sure
Speaker 12: that we reduce the risk on a continuous basis, hopefully
Speaker 12: on a global basis with our colleagues around the world.
Speaker 3: Huawei USA's chief security officer Andy Perdy on where the
Speaker 3: world's two superpowers can meet in the middle that conversation
Speaker 3: on the other side, This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Earlier this month, Wilwei Technology is reported a third straight
Speaker 3: quarter of sales growth after new businesses such as cloud
Speaker 3: services and a resurgent smartphone unit helped mitigate the fallout
Speaker 3: from US sanctions, and.
Speaker 4: As the company tries to revive its high end device business,
Speaker 4: it's also being forced to navigate an increasingly fractised US
Speaker 4: China relationship. For more on how the company is handling
Speaker 4: these ongoing tensions, we turn to Huawei USA's Chief security officer,
Speaker 4: Andy Purdy, who is also once a White House staffer
Speaker 4: in a US Department of Homeland Security official.
Speaker 12: Well, I think the way I would like to see
Speaker 12: an approach to these issues globally is to try to
Speaker 12: consider what's in the best interests in the United States,
Speaker 12: and a number of these issues, such as what kinds
Speaker 12: of products can be sold to what companies, can be
Speaker 12: fairly complex because there can be a risk that one
Speaker 12: can cut off your nose despite your face and really
Speaker 12: can threaten American jobs. So we've been interested in talking
Speaker 12: to the US government for some years, but right now
Speaker 12: it's really a global situation and we have colleagues around
Speaker 12: the world. I've spoken to several in Europe that the
Speaker 12: challenge of trying to not be distracted from the mission
Speaker 12: of cybersecurity progress assurance by the geopolop by the pressure
Speaker 12: there needs to be these kinds of strong standards in
Speaker 12: independent testing for anybody, because the bad guys can hack
Speaker 12: into everyone. So we cannot put our guard down by thinking, well,
Speaker 12: we've blocked companies from this country. That's not going to
Speaker 12: make a safer and so we have to make sure
Speaker 12: that we reduce the risk on a continuous basis, hopefully
Speaker 12: on a global basis with our colleagues around the world.
Speaker 3: It's a US about business for you guys, right, because
Speaker 3: it hurts business to have these sanctions by the US.
Speaker 12: Yeah, we had about a thirty billion dollars hit in
Speaker 12: our revenue a couple of years ago when they blocked
Speaker 12: the five G chips from being allowed to be sold
Speaker 12: from American companies to Huawei. So our consumer devices took
Speaker 12: basically a permanent hit, and so we have regrouped. We've
Speaker 12: raised our research and development up to twenty five percent
Speaker 12: of our close revenues, and so we're investing in digital
Speaker 12: transformation the intelligent world five G and AI, not generative AI,
Speaker 12: chat gipt, but AI for business for industry. We believe
Speaker 12: that going forward, ninety percent of all ALI will be
Speaker 12: industrial and some agriculture, and only two percent will be consumers.
Speaker 12: So we're working with partners around the world to help
Speaker 12: bring about digital transformation of industry and industry sectors with partners,
Speaker 12: and AI is a big part of it.
Speaker 1: Do you just move on?
Speaker 3: I mean, you guys already have right in terms of
Speaker 3: the restrictions because of those US sanctions, whether it's you
Speaker 3: making your own design tools for processor chips, I mean,
Speaker 3: you just have to kind of move on because you
Speaker 3: don't know whether or not things are going to get
Speaker 3: warmer and fuzzier between the US and China.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 12: We're not going to look back. We're not going to
Speaker 12: particularly complain about it either. And the excitement of working
Speaker 12: with our partners and customers around the world. There's a
Speaker 12: whole lot of places in the world that want to
Speaker 12: do business with us, a whole lot of places in
Speaker 12: the world. They're going to benefit. And our partners know
Speaker 12: that we don't make money unless they make money, So
Speaker 12: bringing these new technologies in smart mining and ports and healthcare,
Speaker 12: in transportation, smart cities, and frankly, green energy, reducing the
Speaker 12: carbon footprint using technology not just limiting access to fossil fuels,
Speaker 12: but technology that can help reduce the carbon footprint and
Speaker 12: create greater capacity for green energy, both in creation, in transmission,
Speaker 12: and storage. So yeah, we're not looking back, we're looking
Speaker 12: forward and it's an exciting future.
Speaker 3: Andy, you're in DC and I can imagine the conversations
Speaker 3: that you're having with either regulators or lawmakers. How would
Speaker 3: you describe the environment between US and China Right now?
Speaker 12: We're just a small player in a large world, and
Speaker 12: we're a privately owned company. We can't affect those issues.
Speaker 12: We are just going to move forward doing what we're doing,
Speaker 12: working with our customers in about one hundred and seventy
Speaker 12: countries and helping them meet the requirements of government in
Speaker 12: their various parts of the world. Of course, at the
Speaker 12: global level, we hope we can find common ground and
Speaker 12: help reduce the toxic political environment somewhat.
Speaker 4: That was Hiawa USA Chief Security Officer Andy Perty. To
Speaker 4: hear our full conversation with Andy head on over to
Speaker 4: our podcast feed that wraps up the first hour of
Speaker 4: the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 4: Coming up in our next hour, our domestic cover story
Speaker 4: details a cryptocurrency scam for the ages.
Speaker 3: Plus our undercover reporting expert Guru. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: names we like to call him anyway, he takes us
Speaker 3: inside one of the world's most exclusive travel hotspots and
Speaker 3: reveals the secrets of the Mediterranean version of Pleasure Island.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 4: I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanaveex. Stay with us.
Speaker 4: Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up.
Speaker 1: Right now. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast.
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube.
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven
Speaker 1: thirty plenty ahead.
Speaker 3: In our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 3: Business Week, we are jeweling down on tech use both
Speaker 3: for good and for bad, as well as travel, including
Speaker 3: what our intrepid reporter Brandon Presser learned working as a
Speaker 3: night life fixer in Abisa or Abitha. What do you say?
Speaker 4: I say Abisa Abisa because I'm you know, not cool y.
Speaker 4: I did live in Spain for a semestery, but still,
Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to butcher it.
Speaker 3: We're going to take you there. It's a great story,
Speaker 3: you know, things like helicopters to and from and hangover
Speaker 3: cures with ivy injections and making sure there is lots
Speaker 3: and lots and lots of champ champagne.
Speaker 4: That champagne're talking about.
Speaker 3: Brandon takes us there because he that was his job undercover.
Speaker 4: Plus, with summer starting to slip away, we're going to
Speaker 4: get some tips on booking your next trip and when
Speaker 4: might be the best time to secure the lowest possible airfares.
Speaker 3: Sign me up first up this hour. This week's Domestic
Speaker 3: cover story excerpted from an upcoming book from Bloomberg News
Speaker 3: investigative reporter Zeke Fox. It's due out in September. It's
Speaker 3: a must read for anyone interested in the global knock
Speaker 3: on effects of what turned out to be a multi
Speaker 3: trillion dollar financial delusion.
Speaker 4: And sadly, the monetary fallout is only part of the
Speaker 4: story Zeke uncovers in his book It's called Number Up.
Speaker 4: Inside Crypto's Wild Rise and Staggering Fall. We get a
Speaker 4: sneak peek from the author himself as well as the
Speaker 4: editor of Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Joel Weber.
Speaker 5: This is an amazing excerpt. I'm so excited for Zeke
Speaker 5: in this book, Number Go Up. You can pre order
Speaker 5: your copy right now on Amazon dot com. Right Zeke,
Speaker 5: And uh, this is a little sneak peak of where
Speaker 5: some of the book goes. And we're just so tickled
Speaker 5: to have it as an excerpt in this current issue
Speaker 5: and as our cover story. And you know, we're talking
Speaker 5: about Zeke here, and you know, it all begins with
Speaker 5: this text that he got from a person named, quote
Speaker 5: unquote Vicky.
Speaker 1: Who is Vicky?
Speaker 5: And what text did you get?
Speaker 6: Zeke?
Speaker 13: Yeah, so Vicky gave me it, sent me a text
Speaker 13: out of nowhere saying like, Hi, David, how's it going
Speaker 13: or something like that, And like, I'm not David, obviously,
Speaker 13: so I've been getting a lot of these. I'm been
Speaker 13: kind of curious about that. So I decided to me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Tim says he gets like Carol, get them. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I ignored delete reporter spam if you can, right, but
Speaker 5: you you wrote back, Yeah, And the.
Speaker 13: First part of this like it's probably about what you
Speaker 13: would assume. Where Vicky she tries to make friends with me.
Speaker 13: She's flirting a little bit, She's sending me suggestive pictures,
Speaker 13: and she's like a beautiful, heavily airshed young woman who
Speaker 13: claims to be in New York like me, but does
Speaker 13: not want to meet up, and none of her pictures
Speaker 13: actually look like she's in New York. And I'm waiting
Speaker 13: for her to try to scam me because I wanted
Speaker 13: to know how it works. And it takes like days
Speaker 13: before she's very patient before her true mission comes out,
Speaker 13: and she starts telling me about how good she is
Speaker 13: at bitcoin trading. And then finally, after like a lot
Speaker 13: of trying, she's like, okay, I'll let you in on it.
Speaker 13: Download this app and send me some of this cryptocurrency
Speaker 13: called tetor.
Speaker 5: What I love about it though, is how how slow
Speaker 5: she is. It's like, I mean, and this comes through
Speaker 5: in the excerpt, is like you're like encouraging her along
Speaker 5: to like, come on, get to the point where you're
Speaker 5: trying to scam me.
Speaker 13: I even I had to tell her that, like I
Speaker 13: really wanted a tesla, like I need to make money,
Speaker 13: like she just she was really wanted to make sure
Speaker 13: I was hooked before she went for the scam.
Speaker 8: So I sent her.
Speaker 13: Tether is like a it's a stable coin. It always
Speaker 13: costs a dollar because it's supposedly backed by real dollars
Speaker 13: in the bank. And you can go on any of
Speaker 13: your normal crypto apps like coinbase or crypto dot com
Speaker 13: or whatever, you can buy tether and then you send
Speaker 13: them to VICKI at her supposedly like magic cooin trading app,
Speaker 13: and so all that involves is getting Vicky said. Vicky
Speaker 13: gave me her address. I mean, she walked me through
Speaker 13: it very carefully, and I sent her one hundred tethers
Speaker 13: from like a normal trading app to her special app
Speaker 13: where I was going to make this like big score.
Speaker 13: But as soon as I sent it, she started telling
Speaker 13: me like I need to send more, at which point
Speaker 13: I felt like it had gone far enough. I told
Speaker 13: her I was a reporter, and she disappeared. But the
Speaker 13: part where the story gets really dark and really weird
Speaker 13: is when I tried to figure out who is on
Speaker 13: the other end of these messages. Like, who could Vicky B.
Speaker 5: I want to slow you down before I let you
Speaker 5: go there, Uh the great revel Yeah, which, that's it, right,
Speaker 5: you know part of what the book is so much
Speaker 5: bigger than just this. Right, keep in mind this is
Speaker 5: an excerpt, and Zike, I do want to just like
Speaker 5: back up for a second and talk about how you
Speaker 5: ended up having this book at all.
Speaker 13: Well, I was I was hoping that I was hoping
Speaker 13: that you would because good this really started. This started,
Speaker 13: like you know, it's almost two years ago, maybe even
Speaker 13: a little more than two years ago. Joel came by
Speaker 13: my desk and I had not been reporting on crypto
Speaker 13: at all. I tend to write about like weird stuff
Speaker 13: going on on Wall Street, but I sort of resisted
Speaker 13: crypto as a topic. Like most of you listening to
Speaker 13: this you probably feel like I'm never going to get
Speaker 13: it and like the constant like boosterism is kind of
Speaker 13: a turn off. But Joel said, hey, what do you
Speaker 13: know about stable coins like tether? And I thought, huh,
Speaker 13: I mean, maybe like this wants I mean, if Joel
Speaker 13: wants the story, it might be kind of fun to
Speaker 13: look into it. But I'm sure that neither of us
Speaker 13: had any idea where looking into Tether was was going
Speaker 13: to take us.
Speaker 5: Now, certainly not me. And we've had you know, great
Speaker 5: reporting from Zeke on Tether and more of Crypto along
Speaker 5: the way, because the Tether part is ultimately this other
Speaker 5: side of your story about you know, quote unquote Vicky
Speaker 5: takes you and I will say, this is where it
Speaker 5: gets dark. We've been kind of laughing. Ha ha ha,
Speaker 5: it gets dark really quickly here, Zeke. And why don't
Speaker 5: you take us to this human rights catastrophe that you discovered? Yeah,
Speaker 5: on the other side of the world.
Speaker 13: The truth, as I learned through activists and reporters on
Speaker 13: the ground in Southeast Asia, is that the people who
Speaker 13: send these text messages are themselves often victims of human trafficking.
Speaker 13: And there's whole office buildings of people who've been learned
Speaker 13: to say, like Cambodia is a popular spot for this,
Speaker 13: and they've been lured there with the promise of a
Speaker 13: good job. Once they arrive, they're trapped and they're forced
Speaker 13: to scam people under with the threat of beatings or
Speaker 13: torture or even worse. And it sounds like some sort
Speaker 13: of like QAnon conspiracy thing, but like it's real These
Speaker 13: messages are often coming from people who are suffering like
Speaker 13: horrible abuses and can't leave unless they pay essentially like
Speaker 13: a large ransom to the gangsters that run these scam compounds.
Speaker 4: Can you Zeke talk about who you met in Ho
Speaker 4: Chiman City and how he was able to escape from
Speaker 4: this one of these sort of prison like structures.
Speaker 13: Over a video chat with the translator. I started interviewing
Speaker 13: people who had escaped from these compounds. One of them,
Speaker 13: his name is Twee. He's twenty nine years old. The
Speaker 13: first time we speak on Zoom's it's like a rainy
Speaker 13: night in Ho Chi Minh City. He's walking down the
Speaker 13: street smoking a cigarette. I can see that he's missing
Speaker 13: quite a few teeth, and he tells me that these
Speaker 13: were he lost them in like a horrible beating by
Speaker 13: his captors, and it was truly a desperate situation. He'd
Speaker 13: been tricked into, tricked into going to Cambodia, and he
Speaker 13: was only able to escape by stealing a guard's phone
Speaker 13: then hiding it in his rectum, which was a trick
Speaker 13: that he'd learned in prison. Then and like he's telling
Speaker 13: me this stuff and it's it's pretty hard to believe.
Speaker 13: He told me that he was able to take the
Speaker 13: phone apart with no tools, and then since he didn't
Speaker 13: have a charger, he hot wired the battery to a
Speaker 13: fluorescent light fixture in the ceiling of the room where
Speaker 13: he's being held. So he had been a great source
Speaker 13: of information about these schemes and about these scam compounds
Speaker 13: and Cambodia. But I wasn't quite sure about this part
Speaker 13: of the story. So I went to Hochi Mi in
Speaker 13: the city. I met him. With him, I told him
Speaker 13: like tweet like, I'm so sorry for what's happened to you.
Speaker 13: I hate to say this though, but like, is that
Speaker 13: even really possible to charge an iPhone like that and
Speaker 13: with no hesitation? Well, he said, uh yeah, he said,
Speaker 13: I'll show you right now, went to the store, bought
Speaker 13: like a old iPhone for about fifty bucks, and with
Speaker 13: no hesitation, he took it apart, took apart a lamp
Speaker 13: an led light bulb in my room hotel room, wired
Speaker 13: it to the battery and God should turn on.
Speaker 6: So it was so you can do that.
Speaker 13: Incredibly impressed.
Speaker 3: We have about a minute left here, Zeke, and there's
Speaker 3: we know so much more in your book but this
Speaker 3: particular excerpt, I mean, how does it make you think
Speaker 3: kind of about you know, this the crypto world where
Speaker 3: we are a lot of questions out there.
Speaker 13: To me, this is like the one I looked all
Speaker 13: over the world from like El Salvador, Philippines, Bahamas, everywhere
Speaker 13: I went. Crypto was not really living up to the
Speaker 13: hype here. Sadly, it was extremely useful for these scammers,
Speaker 13: and to me it explained it could. These types of
Speaker 13: illicit uses could explain a big part of Crypto's continued
Speaker 13: popularity in the face of like so many reasons to
Speaker 13: avoid it.
Speaker 4: Now our thanks to Bloomberg News investigative reporter Zeke Fox
Speaker 4: and Bloomberg business Week editor Joe Weber. Zeke's new book
Speaker 4: Number Go Up, Inside Crypto's wild Rise and Staggering Fall,
Speaker 4: is due for release in September.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Bloomberg business Week. Coming up, we've spotlight
Speaker 3: an organization that's bringing opportunity and education to young women
Speaker 3: and underrepresented groups in the field of computer science, the.
Speaker 4: Team from Code with Class on its mission to inspire
Speaker 4: a love for technology in young people. That's next.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast.
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Get this get a number free, mister, stand of it. Okay,
Speaker 3: less than twenty percent of undergraduate computer science degrees go
Speaker 3: to women, less than twenty percent, and that data is
Speaker 3: coming from the National Science Foundation, So that means four
Speaker 3: out of every five degrees, four out of every five
Speaker 3: in an industry already dominated by men. Have you seen
Speaker 3: the barbiemovie Anybody go to Men? And our next guests
Speaker 3: trying to change it and get more young women and
Speaker 3: individuals into coding.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very pleased to have with us this afternoon. Oz Emiokparia,
Speaker 4: the CEO of Code with CLASSI. Also with us is
Speaker 4: kwk's content and community coordinator, Alexis Williams. KWK is a
Speaker 4: nonprofit organization. It receives funding from Bloomberg Philanthropies, the philanthropic
Speaker 4: arm of Bloomberg LP. It is the parent company of
Speaker 4: Bloomberg Radio. Oz I want to start with you just
Speaker 4: talk to us a little about this organization because it's
Speaker 4: doing some really important work.
Speaker 14: Yeah. So COVID CLASSI started in twenty fifteen and is
Speaker 14: the brainchild of our founder, Carly Klass. So for those
Speaker 14: who are familiar, Carli Class is an incredible entrepreneur, supermodel, philanthropist,
Speaker 14: and she started this organization back in twenty fifteen based
Speaker 14: on her own personal experience learning how to code and
Speaker 14: noticing when she lifted her head up from the keyboard
Speaker 14: that there weren't other women in the room. And so
Speaker 14: she used her platform, as she has done many a time,
Speaker 14: to reach out to her audience and say who else
Speaker 14: would want to have this co V experience? And she
Speaker 14: was overwhelmed by the response from her audience. Twenty one
Speaker 14: scholarship positions and she had thousands of people interested, and
Speaker 14: that was the germ for Code with Closi back in
Speaker 14: twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3: And so here we are eight years later.
Speaker 14: And we now have over ten thousand young people in
Speaker 14: our alumni community. And this summer we are about to
Speaker 14: wrap up our biggest summer ever, sixty two camps, almost
Speaker 14: five thousand scholarships awarded, and we're kind of on a
Speaker 14: role I want to bring Alexi cinemament.
Speaker 3: But tell us about those alumni eight years that's a
Speaker 3: big chunk of individuals and time invested. What are they
Speaker 3: doing now? What are you hearing about that alumni base.
Speaker 14: Yeah, so our oldest cohort of alumni who went through
Speaker 14: our summer programming started in twenty sixteen, and so those
Speaker 14: folks are now twenty twenty five years old. So they
Speaker 14: are graduating from university, they're getting their first jobs all
Speaker 14: the way through the cohort that we have this summer,
Speaker 14: who are some of our youngest scholars the summer thirteen
Speaker 14: and so when they complete this program, they will join
Speaker 14: our global community. And so they're doing a range of
Speaker 14: things from you know, giving ted talks like Alexis has done,
Speaker 14: or winning science challenges. We had a winner of the
Speaker 14: Apple Swift Student Challenge. So they're really just sort of
Speaker 14: incredibly applying their skills and continuing to sort of pursue
Speaker 14: their passion in tech.
Speaker 3: Alexis, come on in on the work that you guys
Speaker 3: are doing and just kind of building out this community
Speaker 3: and what you are seeing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I just think one of the most amazing things
Speaker 9: about Code with CLASSI is so many people are interested
Speaker 9: in engineering in general, but I feel like it sounds
Speaker 9: something so you know, difficult and challenging. But the work
Speaker 9: that Code with Classi does is really demystifying that idea
Speaker 9: of what is an engineer, What does it mean to
Speaker 9: make an app? What does it mean to make a website?
Speaker 9: So it's really amazing to offer this opportunity to a
Speaker 9: bunch of young people to have that demystified, to make
Speaker 9: their first apps, to make their first websites, because I
Speaker 9: think that's like one of the first steps into showing
Speaker 9: people who have been pushed to the margins like engineering,
Speaker 9: that it's not only possible, but there are a group
Speaker 9: of people out there that are more than willing and
Speaker 9: able to support them. And that's why the work that
Speaker 9: Code with Colossi does.
Speaker 3: Is we talk so much about inclusivity, and when you
Speaker 3: said push to the margins, tell us about some of
Speaker 3: the individuals, like who is actually participating in the program?
Speaker 3: Because I agree with you, I hear more and more
Speaker 3: when we talk about diversity, it's about inclusion, feeling like
Speaker 3: you're belonging in that if you know, you might be curious,
Speaker 3: but you're just like I don't belong Yeah.
Speaker 9: So Code with Colossi opens its doors to young women,
Speaker 9: gender expansive youth and trans kids, and really it's one
Speaker 9: of the first places where I talk to scholars all
Speaker 9: the time, they're like, this is the first place I've
Speaker 9: felt welcome and accepted. And that is honestly more important
Speaker 9: than being able to learn how to code, like having
Speaker 9: it be a space having code with CLASSI be a
Speaker 9: space where this is one of the first times people
Speaker 9: are walking into a room and feel like they're being
Speaker 9: received with open arms is so important.
Speaker 3: We talk about tim and I have so many different
Speaker 3: co about diversity inclusion. We do it with women in
Speaker 3: venture capital and lack of funding and so on and
Speaker 3: so forth. But you know, there needs to be these important,
Speaker 3: big steps that are game changing, life changing, that really
Speaker 3: make a difference.
Speaker 14: And I think it's what's interesting is I think there's
Speaker 14: diversity on a lot of dimensions. About half of our
Speaker 14: scholars qualify for free and reduced lunch, so we have
Speaker 14: socioeconomic diversity. We also have folks that come in actually
Speaker 14: knowing how to code. So to Alexis's point, what they
Speaker 14: are coming for is not just the rigor of the
Speaker 14: skill building, but also the inclusion and acceptance. And so
Speaker 14: we're finding this really interesting mix of people that you
Speaker 14: wouldn't necessarily find out in the world naturally gravitating into
Speaker 14: these same spaces. Again, eighty percent of our scholars are
Speaker 14: people of color, so you know, not only gender and diversity, socioeconomic,
Speaker 14: skill level, political spectrum. We are sort of a space
Speaker 14: that welcomes all in terms of trying to crack open
Speaker 14: the door to a community.
Speaker 4: I want to talk to you, Ozie about the way
Speaker 4: that your own experience at some the biggest company, some
Speaker 4: of the biggest tech companies in the world, kind of
Speaker 4: shaped the kind of leader you are today.
Speaker 3: Did you always feel like you belonged?
Speaker 4: Well, that's what I'm wondering. I mean, you were at
Speaker 4: Google for years, you were at EBA for years, you
Speaker 4: were in the not for profit space at the John
Speaker 4: Zuckerberg Initiative before this, talk to me a little bit
Speaker 4: about I don't know your experience and what you want
Speaker 4: to bring to the table, like carolss did you did
Speaker 4: you always feel accepted?
Speaker 9: Well?
Speaker 14: I think that's I think that's why I was so
Speaker 14: drawn to the COVID classy opportunity. So I joined COVID
Speaker 14: COLOSSI back in March. So I'm coming up on six
Speaker 14: months and so I have lived experience as a black
Speaker 14: woman in tech and often the only one in many
Speaker 14: of these rooms, and I think, you know, I definitely
Speaker 14: did not always feel accepted. I think there was a
Speaker 14: tipping point in my career where you feel like you
Speaker 14: have built your craft and understand your skills well enough
Speaker 14: to sort of feel comfortable in rooms, but you definitely
Speaker 14: build to that. It's not something that you sort of
Speaker 14: walk in the door having or knowing. But I think
Speaker 14: what that experience taught me is that we not only
Speaker 14: have to focus on upskilling the individual and providing incredible
Speaker 14: programs like we do at COVID Classy, but we also
Speaker 14: have to think about what are the systems that prevent
Speaker 14: people from being successful. So I would claim that I'm
Speaker 14: quite credentialed right Stanford undergrad master's degree.
Speaker 3: Like so all the credential underachiever.
Speaker 14: But still found challenges. So it's not about the individual talent.
Speaker 14: There are also hurdles that are systemic, and so really
Speaker 14: thinking about that holistically is what we are going to
Speaker 14: do in the next eight years of Code with Colossi's
Speaker 14: path is to say we're doing an incredible job of
Speaker 14: sparking the interest of a new generation, but what are
Speaker 14: we doing with companies like Bloomberg and others to really
Speaker 14: think about the systems on the other side, what are
Speaker 14: the practices around hiring and retention and promotion that are
Speaker 14: really going to create opportunities for people.
Speaker 3: Well, and you know we've often talked about this with
Speaker 3: just women. I'm just going to be very basic in
Speaker 3: terms of you know, women come in men at a college,
Speaker 3: they start at the same level, and then as they
Speaker 3: start to go up the last it gets very very different.
Speaker 3: So where's the support network for that? Alexis come on
Speaker 3: back and it's a two week summer camp. I want
Speaker 3: to see if I've got the numbers right. Sixty two camps,
Speaker 3: forty in person in twenty cities, twenty two virtual. It's
Speaker 3: like massive thirteen to eighteen year olds. So what do
Speaker 3: they do in those two weeks?
Speaker 9: So basically we have four different curriculums where a scholars
Speaker 9: are learning the basics two different curriculums like mobile applications,
Speaker 9: Web development, AIML, data science, and it's a short two
Speaker 9: week period, so they're learning really basics and getting to
Speaker 9: build off of that basics that they learn in the
Speaker 9: first week with a final project in the second week.
Speaker 9: So it's important that they're setting down, yeah, and getting
Speaker 9: their education, but then they get to actually put it
Speaker 9: into practice and then at the end of camp show
Speaker 9: their peers, show their families the great things that they're making.
Speaker 4: What's the youngest age that somebody can can join thirteen and.
Speaker 14: So what I think is remarkable again you know, diversity
Speaker 14: and age range. You have thirteen year olds who step
Speaker 14: up their game to be in the room with eighteen
Speaker 14: year olds who are also learning these skills, and it's
Speaker 14: again it's an application not only the hard skills, but
Speaker 14: some of the what I call twenty first century leadership
Speaker 14: skills around collaboration and critical thinking and creativity that are
Speaker 14: really also applied in that final project as well. So
Speaker 14: it really is incredible to see thirteen year olds sort
Speaker 14: of hanging tough there.
Speaker 4: Our thanks to Code with class e ceo oc Inmeokaparia
Speaker 4: and its content community coordinator Alexis Williams.
Speaker 3: Still to come on Bloomberg Business Week, there is still
Speaker 3: time to get some summer travel in and so next
Speaker 3: half hour we go behind the scenes, have a beta's
Speaker 3: Ultracompetitive Conciers circuit.
Speaker 4: And talk about why airline ticket prices are actually falling well,
Speaker 4: at least for now. In the US.
Speaker 6: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1: And the Bloomberg Business app, or watch just Low I've
Speaker 1: on YouTube time.
Speaker 3: For Bloomberg pursuits and this week's opener includes another riveting
Speaker 3: and funny tail of the reporter that goes behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: We always look forward to what he does. He works
Speaker 3: at exclusive spas on cruise ships at Disney World, at Lax,
Speaker 3: New York's Plaza Hotel. He gets the inside scoop and
Speaker 3: finds out what exactly goes on.
Speaker 9: Well.
Speaker 4: This time around, Brandon Presser spent a week working as
Speaker 4: a concierge at a luxury villa booking agency in at Bitha.
Speaker 4: Do I say that right, Brandon.
Speaker 9: In your place?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: This is where week long rentals can easily reach well
Speaker 4: over three hundred thousand dollars. Brandon joins us along with
Speaker 4: Bloomberg News Travels are Nikki Eckstein Nikki. Every time we
Speaker 4: think Brandon can't pull off another one of these inside jobs,
Speaker 4: he outdoes himself yet again, this time in the island
Speaker 4: of Abitha.
Speaker 15: I feel the same way. I feel like we've been
Speaker 15: doing this serious first six or seven years now, and
Speaker 15: every time that we come up with a new idea
Speaker 15: is just boggles my mind. The extent to words Brandon
Speaker 15: commits to these jobs and digs up the craziest stories
Speaker 15: ever imaginable.
Speaker 3: All right, this was definitely a slice of a very
Speaker 3: different life from mine. So Brandon, come on in. You
Speaker 3: are actually at an airport as we're talking, because you're
Speaker 3: constantly traveling in on the road. Tell us about what
Speaker 3: you did in Abitha.
Speaker 11: Well, this one, this one was really interesting because what
Speaker 11: I like to do is I like to focus on
Speaker 11: sort of the averages and the extremes, because you know,
Speaker 11: when you go behind the curtain of hospitality, both of
Speaker 11: those things are really interesting. But on an island it
Speaker 11: sort of becomes this pressure cooker. So there was a
Speaker 11: lot of really interesting social dynamics and status anxiety that
Speaker 11: was at play as well.
Speaker 4: Who are these people who are spending three hundred grand
Speaker 4: for a week on Abiza?
Speaker 3: Come on, Tim, you did that last week, didn't you.
Speaker 4: It's because you in your piece. You of like it's
Speaker 4: it's like a kind of a diverse group of very
Speaker 4: wealthy people, like executives from Apple have been there. Who
Speaker 4: who else is there?
Speaker 11: I mean it's every celebrity and influential person imaginable. And
Speaker 11: I think in the way that you think of wearing
Speaker 11: like an a low hush shirt to Hawaii, everyone dresses
Speaker 11: in this sort of boho chic. Everyone puts on their
Speaker 11: cosplaying macro mat and linen and ratan and really gets
Speaker 11: into the vibe.
Speaker 3: I haven't been somewhere at my home that's full of
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. All right, Nikki, come on back
Speaker 3: in here. So, when you knew that this was the
Speaker 3: assignment for Brandon, what is it that you wanted to know?
Speaker 3: Tell us about kind of you know, the conversations back
Speaker 3: and forth here, Well, you know, it's always.
Speaker 15: Really funny because people will assume that we just want
Speaker 15: to kind of dig up the dirt wherever we go,
Speaker 15: and almost the opposite is true. What we're really looking
Speaker 15: for is what we call service heroics. Between the two
Speaker 15: of us, we're really trying to shine a light on
Speaker 15: how hard the hospitality industry works to make everybody happy,
Speaker 15: even when what they want is completely ludicrous and would
Speaker 15: make you just drop your jaw to the floor. Okay,
Speaker 15: but there are people who that's their job to take
Speaker 15: it and deliver.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: Speaking of completely ludicrous, Brandon, I wonder.
Speaker 3: Where you're going to go because there's a lot of
Speaker 3: ludacris here.
Speaker 4: I'm going to the nieces. The nieces, who are the
Speaker 4: nieces and the nephews the nieces.
Speaker 11: Well, the origin story is at this wonderful hotel, the
Speaker 11: Sergio On Hotel, very close to the patcha nightclub. There
Speaker 11: was a man a few years ago who arrived at
Speaker 11: the hotel with five beautiful women, and he introduced them
Speaker 11: to the staff as his nieces, and the moniker stuck.
Speaker 11: So anytime that there's an individual who comes to the
Speaker 11: hotel that isn't staying at the hotel, whether it be
Speaker 11: for thirty minutes or three hours or for the whole night,
Speaker 11: they are lovingly referred to as nieces or nephews.
Speaker 3: You always see that in movies too. Right now, it's
Speaker 3: like it's my niece. Wait wait, wait what you're eighty
Speaker 3: and she's twenty. Okay, tell us about also, Brandon, some
Speaker 3: of the kind of crazy things you did, I know
Speaker 3: that there was lots of champagne, there was the DJ.
Speaker 3: Let's go there because the DJ apparently it's not only
Speaker 3: about David Solomon at Goldman the DJ being god. It's
Speaker 3: apparently that you went there, Carroll, Well, didn't we all.
Speaker 15: Think it of?
Speaker 9: Like?
Speaker 3: I wonder if like on the side anyway, tell us
Speaker 3: about the DJs, Brandon, Well.
Speaker 11: I think the interesting thing is that, you know, there's
Speaker 11: all of these complicated personalities all over the island, but
Speaker 11: the DJ is God. Everyone worships the DJ, and I
Speaker 11: thought it was really interesting that when I was asking
Speaker 11: a lot of people through the bookings, you know, what
Speaker 11: are the biggest requests that the DJ's asked for. It
Speaker 11: turns out they're all pretty low key. None of them
Speaker 11: really drink. They all have kids. They kind of just
Speaker 11: hang out in their villas with their wives, you know,
Speaker 11: and then they go on stage at three in the
Speaker 11: morning and do their thing. But they're actually sort of
Speaker 11: the least dva e of all the people that I encountered,
Speaker 11: which I thought was kind of fun.
Speaker 4: What about when it comes to what people are eating.
Speaker 11: What people are well, it's more white people are drinking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Carol already went into I mean, we didn't
Speaker 4: talk about the bathtub full of champagne, but.
Speaker 3: It's lots of bubbly.
Speaker 11: One of the most interesting things about being on the
Speaker 11: island was all the things that were unset and probably
Speaker 11: the things that I need to leave unseid here.
Speaker 3: Okay, fuel, that's our Brandon presser after dark, but we'll
Speaker 3: get that later.
Speaker 11: Yeah, go ahead that we'll get you through the night.
Speaker 4: Fuel. That will get you through the night.
Speaker 1: Okay, So get it, Nikki.
Speaker 3: Come on, and when you read through Brandon's story, I mean, like,
Speaker 3: what was it that just you were like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: this is incredible.
Speaker 15: Well, I have to tell you, guys, what publishes ultimately
Speaker 15: in the magazine is what burndon like two thousand words
Speaker 15: at most and maybe twenty five hundred words. Brandon will
Speaker 15: file these incredible digests to me that clock in at
Speaker 15: some like six seven thousand words. What I'm trying to
Speaker 15: say is that there is so much gold left on
Speaker 15: the cutting room floor, and I wish that we could
Speaker 15: go through all of it. But I think my favorite
Speaker 15: highlights are the bathtub of champagne, a literal bathtub of champagne.
Speaker 15: By the way, it starts at four thousand euro. If
Speaker 15: you're curious, maybe that's something you want to do. And
Speaker 15: I do love the food stories about people who think
Speaker 15: they're so fancy partying in Abisa, but really all they
Speaker 15: want is frozen pizza and like boodles and boodles of McDonald's.
Speaker 15: I just thought the juxtaposion of these things was absolutely hilarious.
Speaker 3: All right, So what I want to know too, Brandon,
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, there's tons of people, two million vacationers
Speaker 3: that arrive on the island right each summer. A lot
Speaker 3: of people summer, A lot of them are regulars. Regulars.
Speaker 3: Is there like something you do that's like you're just
Speaker 3: like totally like, I got this, I know how this works.
Speaker 3: And then you can tell the people who just don't
Speaker 3: have a clue.
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, I was asking a lot of insiders
Speaker 11: on the island, people who live there, are spent majority
Speaker 11: of the year there, how do you tell the difference
Speaker 11: between the dress up and the real deal locals? And
Speaker 11: a new friend that I made on the island, he
Speaker 11: told me that the bigger that theer the brat. This
Speaker 11: is something that got rough on the cutting room floor,
Speaker 11: but I just thought it'd be really fun to include
Speaker 11: right now. And essentially the more you dress up, the
Speaker 11: more of a faker you are.
Speaker 3: Oh so dressed down, like if you're like full of
Speaker 3: like labels and brands, like people are like, yeah, you're
Speaker 3: not the real thing?
Speaker 5: Is that fair?
Speaker 9: Ye?
Speaker 11: Like he invited a crypto guru over to his villa
Speaker 11: to have dinner and he showed up with a hat
Speaker 11: so large it looked like a flying saucer.
Speaker 4: Maybe that's just how they do things in crypto land, Brandon,
Speaker 4: What about you know, showing up to a party and
Speaker 4: trying to get in if you don't actually have an RSVP.
Speaker 11: Well, so at the big clubs, you know, it's really
Speaker 11: just a swipe of a credit card. I mean you're
Speaker 11: looking at clubs out of a capacity of five, six,
Speaker 11: seven thousand people. But then there's all these different ways
Speaker 11: to get in. There's you know, if you're working on
Speaker 11: a BIS that you can actually get a worker's permanent
Speaker 11: it's basically a free pass to get in into of
Speaker 11: the clubs when you're off duty. And then you have
Speaker 11: these guest lists, and then there's the industry lists. So
Speaker 11: there's really all of these permutations for access, all right.
Speaker 3: Nikki We're saving the last question for you to get
Speaker 3: ask Brendan because you know this story inside and out.
Speaker 3: What do you want to ask him? As we get
Speaker 3: ready to wrap up?
Speaker 15: Oh God, why do I want to ask Brandon? Would
Speaker 15: you go back to Abisa ever again? In your whole
Speaker 15: entire life?
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so.
Speaker 11: I think that I had such a special and uniquely
Speaker 11: weird experience that I kind of want to live in
Speaker 11: that fantasy forever. And I think we need to do
Speaker 11: one of these amikonos next year.
Speaker 3: Oh, NIC's a good idea, and we'll carry your luggage. Hey,
Speaker 3: I do have actually one tiny, little last question. If
Speaker 3: you did go back to Abitha and you went to
Speaker 3: the concierge service, what would you ask them? Because you
Speaker 3: know that they will do just about anything.
Speaker 11: For the ultimate in Abusa Ax, you want a lounger edge,
Speaker 11: Gen Dahal, And so that would be the first thing
Speaker 11: that I would do, and just spend the day drinking
Speaker 11: a bloody marry edge and doll and watching all the
Speaker 11: other people experience their payings of status anxiety.
Speaker 3: What's John Dahal Just quickly.
Speaker 11: Very very cool beach club, the It's spot of the
Speaker 11: summer and not in.
Speaker 3: A big hat, right, because a big hat is a
Speaker 3: really big brad. We love, we Love, we Love. Another
Speaker 3: gem from the mind an undercover mastery of Bloomberg contributor
Speaker 3: Brandon Presser. Check out his latest work. It's the opener
Speaker 3: of this week's pursued section of Bloomberg Business Week. Find
Speaker 3: it online on newsstands on the terminal. Great artwork as
Speaker 3: well to accompany this piece, as always are thanks to Brandon,
Speaker 3: and of course Bloomberg News Travels are editor Nikki x Teime.
Speaker 4: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, we got
Speaker 4: more on travel, not necessarily so pricing when we talked
Speaker 4: three hundred thousand dollars a week. Villa stays in Atbiza,
Speaker 4: but you know, more travel. Nonetheless, Tim, it's Abitha, Abitha,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, all right.
Speaker 3: We're just trying to get an airfare that won't break
Speaker 3: the bank. Something much more down to earth. That story
Speaker 3: is coming up next. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business
Speaker 2: app or watch US Live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: The latest USCPI print showed that inflation was held down
Speaker 3: in part last month by declining airfare prices. So yay,
Speaker 3: we can finally finally afford airline tickets which have shut
Speaker 3: up on all of the travel demand, especially for overseas travel.
Speaker 4: Well to talk travel trends, airline ticket prices, and more,
Speaker 4: we welcome back to the program. Haley Berg, lead economist
Speaker 4: at the travel app Hopper.
Speaker 16: When we look at the domestic market, a lot of
Speaker 16: what we're seeing this year is being driven by increased
Speaker 16: capacity from airlines. We typically see a pretty tight relationship
Speaker 16: between fares and how many seats are available to book.
Speaker 16: Right now, we're above twenty nineteen levels. There are more
Speaker 16: seats available to book on detic airlines now than there
Speaker 16: were at this time in twenty nineteen. That, combined with
Speaker 16: better jet fuel prices down significantly from last year, still
Speaker 16: a ways to go compared to twenty n eighteen, and
Speaker 16: demanded opening up to international destinations, all has combined and
Speaker 16: has really added to a seasonal effect. Typically fares drop
Speaker 16: at this time of the year, but that's being compounded
Speaker 16: by this increase in supply shift in demand and some
Speaker 16: relief fun costs, and that's how we end up with
Speaker 16: prices about ten percent lower than last year and versus
Speaker 16: twenty nineteen.
Speaker 4: So did the international tickets are they just like totally
Speaker 4: exempt from this? We're saying because since demand is so high,
Speaker 4: International is continuing to be expensive.
Speaker 16: International remains extremely expensive on long haul routes. Think fares
Speaker 16: to Asia well over fourteen hundred dollars up almost sixty
Speaker 16: percent economy. That would be an average what we call
Speaker 16: a good deal price, so at economy based economy ticket
Speaker 16: pretty much anything excluding first or business.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, so Asian? What about Europe? Specifically?
Speaker 16: Europe was very expensive this summer, peaks over fourteen hundred
Speaker 16: dollars a ticket, But we have seen significant improvement in
Speaker 16: the last couple of weeks. Some of that is seasonal,
Speaker 16: some of that is supply. Airlines have gotten back to
Speaker 16: about ninety seven percent of twenty nineteen capacity, so we
Speaker 16: have seen demand shift back international. If it feels like
Speaker 16: everyone you know is in Italy, it's because they probably are.
Speaker 4: Feel like the third person, like the third person to
Speaker 4: say that to me, everybody's going. But if you open
Speaker 4: up Instagram apparently where's the place to go? Sicily? Is
Speaker 4: it like the because of the white Lotus.
Speaker 16: We are definitely seeing some what we call set jetting,
Speaker 16: so Palermo and Tara Mina in Sicily are very popular.
Speaker 16: But then some of the usual suspects we see, the
Speaker 16: Amalfi Coast rome and Milan like Como very popular at
Speaker 16: this time of year.
Speaker 3: So what happens? Does it stay this way or then
Speaker 3: once we start to get closer to holidays it starts
Speaker 3: we start to see an uptick on the domestic front.
Speaker 16: We have a couple more weeks of these low fares.
Speaker 16: We're expecting them to bottom out this month, and then
Speaker 16: they'll start rising in late September early October when travelers
Speaker 16: are starting to plan those trips for Thanksgiving and Christmas,
Speaker 16: and we'll see them rise back to reach about pre
Speaker 16: pandemic levels. In December, we'll pretty much match where we
Speaker 16: were in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two in December
Speaker 16: about too eighty a ticket if you're booking something.
Speaker 8: At the end of the year.
Speaker 4: Okay, so when should we be booking for holidays?
Speaker 10: Not yet?
Speaker 16: It's too Really, I think it's true, really getting everyone
Speaker 16: is feeling trigger happy. But the sweet spot for booking
Speaker 16: your trips home for the holidays is actually from about
Speaker 16: September fourteenth to October fourteenth, So that four week window
Speaker 16: at the end of September and early October, fares for
Speaker 16: trips home for the holidays they start incredibly high in
Speaker 16: the summer. You'd be paying about twenty percent more than
Speaker 16: previous years if you booked right now. But if you wait,
Speaker 16: they're going to come down during that sweet spot. That's
Speaker 16: really when you want to book.
Speaker 4: That was Hailey Berg, lead economist at the travel app Hopper.
Speaker 3: That wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 3: from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4: Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through
Speaker 4: Friday starting at three pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg
Speaker 4: Radio and on Sirius XM channel one nineteen.
Speaker 3: You can also watch your daily broadcast on YouTube. Just
Speaker 3: search Bloomberg Global News and we're summlecast on Bloomberg Originals
Speaker 3: available at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Originals, and streaming platforms
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Speaker 4: Find our Bloomberg BusinessWeek Podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple,
Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts. The latest edition of
Speaker 4: the magazine is available on newsstands now, at Bloomberg dot
Speaker 4: com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. I'm Tim Stinebeck
Speaker 4: and I'm Carol Masser. Have a good and safe weekend, everybody.
Speaker 3: Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines
Speaker 3: are coming up right now.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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