Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underware listening podcast. You
Speaker 1: can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to
Speaker 1: you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging
Speaker 1: deer stands, or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance
Speaker 1: apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it
Speaker 1: out at first light dot com. F I R S
Speaker 1: T L I T E dot com. Accusing me of you,
Speaker 1: He's confusing, he's getting like, he's confusing. Who got sick?
Speaker 1: I'm sick like once every two years now is always sick.
Speaker 2: I'm not I know, not be ill.
Speaker 3: I'm not a no person.
Speaker 1: I have allergies.
Speaker 4: It's a bad year.
Speaker 1: In the show already started, it's I've been rolling for
Speaker 1: two minutes. Can you make sure it starts with with
Speaker 1: clarifying that sickly sad note that sickly sad is always sick.
Speaker 3: I'm not always sick. I feel like you're gonna get
Speaker 3: sick and laughter.
Speaker 4: I was just.
Speaker 1: Because he's over here sniffling right now. I know what
Speaker 1: are you sniffing about?
Speaker 2: It probably got allergies because allergies.
Speaker 4: No, it is the pullens bad this year.
Speaker 1: I think that would be rolled under sickly. Yeah, no
Speaker 1: infirm this is general infirmity. Our friend Morgan Potter's here.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good to be back. But by the time
Speaker 1: you're listening to this, so because of because of things
Speaker 1: in this world that I hate, like what.
Speaker 5: You really want to know?
Speaker 1: I'm really going to focus on one thing I hate. Okay,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, it should just be that, Like, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, it should just be that this is effectively live.
Speaker 4: The podcast.
Speaker 6: Yeah, like like as soon as it's done, it's just wah.
Speaker 1: And sometimes there'd be three shows in a week. Sometimes
Speaker 1: there'd be no shows in a week.
Speaker 7: It just be like, what do we think, Phil Well,
Speaker 7: I've talked with Karin about this, and I actually agree
Speaker 7: with Steve. I would love it if we could do
Speaker 7: something like that. We're just beholding to many agreements and
Speaker 7: deals with with people and companies, and there's there's a
Speaker 7: lot of moving parts. Great listeners of course, incredible company companies.
Speaker 1: I would change the show's name because that's what it
Speaker 1: would be like.
Speaker 2: That sounds like something else. We won't go there.
Speaker 1: Like stupid like stupid reasons that I can't even begin
Speaker 1: to like understand, let alone explain. I've had it explained
Speaker 1: to me twenty times. I still don't understand it. You
Speaker 1: know what, do we talk about this recently in Life Aquatic.
Speaker 4: With Steve?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Perhaps, Yeah, one of the top movies ever made. Fantastic,
Speaker 1: It's like up there with Big Lebowski. Oh, definitely. Someone's
Speaker 1: explaining something to his character, Bill Murray's character, and he says,
Speaker 1: I don't understand that, but it sounds like bullshit.
Speaker 8: I ran into Mury in an elevator once I was
Speaker 8: working at a post production or office, was in a
Speaker 8: post production studio.
Speaker 1: Steve your phone, it's not how can you guys hear that?
Speaker 8: Ran into Bill Murray in an elevator in the same day.
Speaker 8: I forget how many years ago this was. That he
Speaker 8: was on the cover was it Vogue or another publication.
Speaker 8: He was on the cover of it, and I was
Speaker 8: holding that magazine while I stepped into an elevator together
Speaker 8: with him. We were both there, and I just kind of.
Speaker 4: Was he cool?
Speaker 2: He was cool?
Speaker 8: No, I just looked at him and I like slowly
Speaker 8: raised the magazine cover in front of my face so
Speaker 8: that he was staring at himself and then we had
Speaker 8: a little chuckle and then went our separate ways.
Speaker 2: That was was my Bill Murray.
Speaker 4: And he's one of the ones that I like, you
Speaker 4: want to hope he's cool in like in the wild.
Speaker 4: You know, he probably.
Speaker 1: Morgan Potter. He's an Australian, as you can tell. Hey,
Speaker 1: do do for us your American accent.
Speaker 4: No, I can't do it. Oh it's bad. No, I
Speaker 4: can't do it.
Speaker 1: What part of the country is your We could all
Speaker 1: do Australian.
Speaker 4: So I've heard a couple of the Australians early before
Speaker 4: you walked in this door. Well was key. We actually
Speaker 4: not not so great you guys from that.
Speaker 1: Do him goof goofund him.
Speaker 9: That's not a knot.
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of material.
Speaker 4: I mean. I have a deal with my children that
Speaker 4: when they can do, because you know they've grown up here,
Speaker 4: when they can do a passable Australian accent, I'll like
Speaker 4: give him a day off school, get him ice cream,
Speaker 4: whatever they want. They've failed to Uh.
Speaker 1: They can't do. I could I can, maybe Randall can
Speaker 1: give him some pointers. Yeah, goofund him a minute, Randall.
Speaker 5: Oh, now you're putting me on the spot.
Speaker 1: We'll just do that.
Speaker 5: This used to be a penal colony.
Speaker 4: That's no good.
Speaker 1: Shah. Yeah, nor we did. We did this with Southerners
Speaker 1: one time, and the Southerners would do their Northern accent
Speaker 1: for us and and then but we were to we
Speaker 1: wouldn't do our Southern accent for them.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I'm like I'm.
Speaker 1: Not doing that. No, I'm when they do their northern accent,
Speaker 1: they do everybody as Wisconsin okay, oh yeah, Sam, And
Speaker 1: that's how they do like a yang. You're like, well,
Speaker 1: do your Southern for me, And I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 1: doing my Southern for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah. I wouldn't know where to begin. I do.
Speaker 4: I love a good regional accent, though you know, Australia
Speaker 4: doesn't really have that. So I like that America has
Speaker 4: like regional variation. I appreciate that a lot. But we'll
Speaker 4: do what.
Speaker 1: Just do a quick one. When you're telling your stories,
Speaker 1: when you're telling stories to friends back home and you
Speaker 1: have an American talking, you do it.
Speaker 4: Sometimes. If I've been drinking, it's a little for that.
Speaker 4: If I've been drinking some American I just can't. I
Speaker 4: just know I flat refuse.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, it's not.
Speaker 8: It's not.
Speaker 4: Good on mite.
Speaker 1: I get my hair cut at vip here and right
Speaker 1: here close, and I'm in there getting my haircut, and
Speaker 1: a kind of like if he's listening, with all due respect,
Speaker 1: kind of the crazy looking guy walks in. Just looks
Speaker 1: like he's been camping a long time, yeah, and not crazy.
Speaker 1: It just looks like he's been a long camp hot,
Speaker 1: a long hot camping trip. And he comes in and
Speaker 1: he asks if he can get a quick trim yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's clearly Australian. So he sits down and there's
Speaker 1: you guys, Kevin and Jake, and Kevin's cutting my hair
Speaker 1: and Jake is waiting for his next guy, and he's like, well,
Speaker 1: if it's quick, I'll do it. So he ask some
Speaker 1: where's the accent from? And he says Australia, and Jake
Speaker 1: asks some like the same thing I would have done.
Speaker 1: Is any crocodile's nearby? To which to what? He points
Speaker 1: out that those are well north.
Speaker 4: Of him, And then he.
Speaker 1: Asked him what he does for fun, and the guy says, well,
Speaker 1: we hunt a lot of pigs and and I kind
Speaker 1: of perk up this and all sudden he goes, are
Speaker 1: you the guy from meat Eater one? He was in
Speaker 1: town for work? Oh? Really in town for work? He said,
Speaker 1: he's here. I didn't catch what he was working on,
Speaker 1: but he's sent here and he's got he's got two
Speaker 1: three months of stuff he's got to do.
Speaker 4: I'll bet it's mining or something.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah, I should say I'm sure.
Speaker 4: But whatever it was, it looks hot. Yeah, I'll bet
Speaker 4: he came in looking hot mining out.
Speaker 1: By the time you're listening to this, for reasons I
Speaker 1: cannot explain, I will be with Morgan Potter, who's sitting
Speaker 1: here right now. We will be like a like an
Speaker 1: alternate universe. We will be in Tanzania hunting for Kate Buffalo.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear how if you want to
Speaker 1: reflect back on how all this came to be, go
Speaker 1: back to episode four four six, which is called when
Speaker 1: an African Kate Buffalo Beats Your butt? Did we call that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't call it beats your ass? Beat your butt?
Speaker 4: Yeah, because censorship.
Speaker 1: You know, m hmm, what an African Kate Buffalo beats
Speaker 1: your butt?
Speaker 4: So it was just for alliteration purposes.
Speaker 8: Nothing to do back and forth between ass and but nothing.
Speaker 1: To do with cleaning her up. So we're gonna come
Speaker 1: around and and talk about that in a little bit. Dude,
Speaker 1: I'm getting excited.
Speaker 4: Oh me too.
Speaker 1: I just read a whole book about Kate Buffalo that
Speaker 1: wound up oddly about Kate.
Speaker 5: Buffalo, which what's happening right now?
Speaker 1: I am, no, it's true. Yeah, what.
Speaker 4: If by the time this comes out, I'm not excited? Yeah,
Speaker 4: you like, this sucks. And then I listened to this
Speaker 4: and I'm like, but that's not true. There's a low chance,
Speaker 4: low risk of that, I would say, very low risk.
Speaker 4: What's the book that is not about Kate Buffalo that
Speaker 4: supports to.
Speaker 1: Be Now, that's by the late writer. So we a
Speaker 1: long time ago had on writer Thomas.
Speaker 4: Mack and I know him. Yeah, he passed away. I
Speaker 4: did know that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I was talking about get I
Speaker 1: was telling Crid to get him back on the show,
Speaker 1: and then it turns out he had passed away.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, not terribly old. Yeah, no, not terribly old. Yeah,
Speaker 4: pol guy, it's thunder without rain. Ah, I have I've
Speaker 4: read it a long time.
Speaker 1: Ago, but you know how well, no, no, no, because it
Speaker 1: only came out a year ago.
Speaker 4: Oh really.
Speaker 1: It came out posthumously.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, is it like an anthology like a collection
Speaker 4: of stories, original material.
Speaker 1: But it's just like how broad Agan's trout Fishing in America?
Speaker 1: Uh huh, isn't about trout fishing in America?
Speaker 4: Gotcha?
Speaker 5: Just really disappointing.
Speaker 1: There's a great line about trout fishing a Roman. No no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's a nonfiction book. He just now and then And
Speaker 1: I can say this because he's, you know, no longer
Speaker 1: with this for for for sometimes, for like seventy five pages,
Speaker 1: he'll forget that it's about Kate Buffalo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he'll be just talking about whatever.
Speaker 4: Or is it more.
Speaker 1: Like like he does a big so he at one
Speaker 1: point feels the need to sort of talk about movies
Speaker 1: that might tangentially involve Kate Buffalo. So he spends a
Speaker 1: lot of time on like like a lot of of
Speaker 1: his generation that were interested in Africa, they're very interested
Speaker 1: in Hemingway.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1: So, rather than talk about Hemingway's run ins with Kate Buffalo, right,
Speaker 1: he decides just to do a megabio.
Speaker 4: On Hemingway, gotcha.
Speaker 1: Or out of Africa? He has to talk about that.
Speaker 1: So then he does a mega bio on like everyone
Speaker 1: down to the financiers.
Speaker 4: Oh as opposed to the charts of it that it
Speaker 4: was based on. He is like talking, he alludes.
Speaker 1: Of them, but he forgets that he's he forgets the hook.
Speaker 4: Right, and so then he's talking about the cinematographers and
Speaker 4: whatnot and kind of just doesn't and just.
Speaker 1: For long stretches of time forgets about the subject at hand.
Speaker 1: But then now and then it comes back to it
Speaker 1: in remarkable fashion.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it sounds familiar. I think I flicked through.
Speaker 1: This book, but I don't write that way. I don't.
Speaker 4: His writing style is kind of unique. I think I
Speaker 4: flicked through this book, and as I recall, there was
Speaker 4: a good chunk of it dedicated to like the like
Speaker 4: the evolutionary history of Cape Buffalo and their relationship with
Speaker 4: other like ovids. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That's the part I liked. And here's the deal. If
Speaker 1: I was just sitting down looking to read a book,
Speaker 1: yeah I would like it. But I was just sitting
Speaker 1: down looking to like get a gig Buffalo info rather
Speaker 1: than reading the Wikipedia page, which.
Speaker 4: I've read twice for the cinematographers of h Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Like my needs as a reader are not being adequately met.
Speaker 4: By the book, my needs as a centophile totally checking
Speaker 4: that book has been said.
Speaker 1: I was reading it to cram for our trip.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, I think I can recommend some other reading.
Speaker 4: But yeah, you know, the thing about Cape Buffalo is
Speaker 4: I was kind of you know, I read Hemmingway and
Speaker 4: all that stuff. I mean, I've read, you know, a
Speaker 4: huge amount of literature and nonfiction related to African hunting,
Speaker 4: but I think nothing can kind of adequately prepare you
Speaker 4: for like seeing your first one. Oh it's so cool.
Speaker 4: I still remember the first one I ever saw, and
Speaker 4: I just be like.
Speaker 1: I want to get charged, bad man? You say that now,
Speaker 1: I've been looking at a lot of videos my body.
Speaker 1: Just send me a video some guys getting beat up
Speaker 1: by one the other day. I'll tell you the crew
Speaker 1: that's gonna be worth he does not want to get.
Speaker 4: That's what I wanted to actually get hit though, So
Speaker 4: what is your if you had to, like, if you
Speaker 4: had to, I mean, other than just the ferocity of
Speaker 4: the animal from those charge videos, what would be your
Speaker 4: kind of like main takeaway as fire as just like
Speaker 4: how it all goes down.
Speaker 1: Just that this again, because picture that is here. I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to get charged. Blake. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: talking to my buddy yesterday the cent in my office,
Speaker 1: and my buddies hunted them a couple of times and
Speaker 1: they had an instance no charge, but they got they
Speaker 1: were they were. He said, the trackers are tracking yep,
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, he guy holds his hand
Speaker 1: up yeah and touches his ear, and they've been he said,
Speaker 1: they've been following him for a good part.
Speaker 4: Of a day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they can hear somehow their trajectory on the track,
Speaker 1: like for whatever reason, something out ahead of them had
Speaker 1: bumped them or something gotcha. So he said, they're going
Speaker 1: and they're they're following the trail, but all a sudden
Speaker 1: you can hear them and they're coming at a good
Speaker 1: cliff like something just happened, and they're coming yep, And
Speaker 1: so he says they're way off and then they're like
Speaker 1: in their lap, right yeah, and shoots one at thirty yards.
Speaker 4: Nice good range to shoot one out.
Speaker 1: In their lap. So then you're like he's like that,
Speaker 1: like that scratched the itch because he's like I was
Speaker 1: worried that it would be that like, oh, I could
Speaker 1: you know, through the brush, I could kind of make
Speaker 1: out like a shoulder blade and someone saying go go
Speaker 1: go it. Yeah, and then you shoot and it's and
Speaker 1: it's dead, and you never like you never were in
Speaker 1: its presence.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he felt like he he was.
Speaker 4: So happy to have it that they were they were
Speaker 4: like there, Yeah, it was exciting. Yeah, you were like
Speaker 4: they were there without the without the sort of yeah,
Speaker 4: absolutely trying to kill you aspect of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he said, yeah, they were. He said
Speaker 1: they were oblivious to their right but still he's like,
Speaker 1: you can still just like like feel.
Speaker 4: It, Yeah, feel the intensity of being that close to them. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean that's what that's kind of what I endeavor
Speaker 4: to do on on safarias is get people a number
Speaker 4: of those kind of like interactions, whether you end up
Speaker 4: shooting one, you know, whether it's a you know, you
Speaker 4: just kind of get up on a herd to just
Speaker 4: get to get a look at what's in there. We
Speaker 4: typically don't shoot from herds if we can avoid it,
Speaker 4: but yeah, just having that that experience of being close
Speaker 4: to them is definitely it's a big part of it
Speaker 4: the charge piece is far less desirable standpoint. No, I know,
Speaker 4: I know I picked that up. No for sure, for sure,
Speaker 4: But I'm not going to pretend.
Speaker 1: I've had like little mix up with like minor mix
Speaker 1: ups with grizzly bears, and I wouldn't give away as
Speaker 1: much as you try to avoid it, and what did
Speaker 1: you try to avoid it in hindsight? Right, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: sacrifice any of those speriences in hindsight.
Speaker 4: No for sure, And I'm not going to pretend like
Speaker 4: the prospect of a charge isn't part of the appeal
Speaker 4: of hunting Cape buffalo, you know, it's, of course it is.
Speaker 1: It's how many grizzly how many grizzly bear attack people
Speaker 1: have we interviewed? And when I say to them, there's
Speaker 1: my two favorite questions in the world. Is a person
Speaker 1: has wild pig problems? I say, if you could wave
Speaker 1: a magic wand and all the wild pigs would be gone,
Speaker 1: would you wave it? They always say no, not all
Speaker 1: of them? Yeah, And then people like, do you wish
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have happened? And people have a hard time
Speaker 1: saying they wish it wouldn't have happened. The survivors have
Speaker 1: a hard time saying. They're like, Eh, it's who I
Speaker 1: am now.
Speaker 4: It's it's a survivors, yeah.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 4: But it is it's a good I mean, it's a way.
Speaker 4: It's it's like a time and a place where you
Speaker 4: feel something that I think outside of certain other like
Speaker 4: walks of life, like being maybe a firefighter or a
Speaker 4: cop or something like that, you get a kind of range.
Speaker 4: What's a cop?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean other than those sort of that's more English,
Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean we can go back.
Speaker 5: Firefighter.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: So outside of sort of those that narrow range of professions,
Speaker 4: you get a you know, a sort of a series
Speaker 4: of emotions and feelings that you're just not really going
Speaker 4: to get elsewhere in day to day life. And that's
Speaker 4: a good way to think. Yeah, I mean that's part
Speaker 4: of the appeal. And then that does it leaves like
Speaker 4: an indelible mark on you, you know, it kind of
Speaker 4: changes your your perspective on stuff.
Speaker 1: How many times in your career have you felt like,
Speaker 1: to whatever degree is something actually happened? How many times
Speaker 1: in your career have you felt like a threat from
Speaker 1: Kate Buffalo.
Speaker 4: A threat? Well, there's certainly been times. You know, I
Speaker 4: used to hunt and I still do hunt in the
Speaker 4: Cape Buffalo in the montane forests of northern Tanzania. It's
Speaker 4: very high elevation, kind of these these mountains that come
Speaker 4: out of the Rift Valley, and it's very dense vegetation.
Speaker 4: It's you know, almost like you could you know, the
Speaker 4: laymans to be caught like almost like jungle, and you
Speaker 4: do inevitably get quite close to them in there, either
Speaker 4: deliberately or or by accident. You'll bump into herds in
Speaker 4: this kind of very very dense type stuff, and you'll
Speaker 4: have situations where cows with calves and that will kind
Speaker 4: of come out and like bluff charge you or or
Speaker 4: sort of like run in your direction, and then you know,
Speaker 4: a buffalo herd sometimes they'll sort of circle up and
Speaker 4: like move a little closer to you, particularly in the evenings,
Speaker 4: you know, as part of sort of like a defensive
Speaker 4: posture that they kind of create. So I've certainly been
Speaker 4: intimidated by Cape Buffalo a lot. But times where I
Speaker 4: could say that I was genuinely at risk of like
Speaker 4: serious injury or death probably less than ten more than
Speaker 4: five how many years fifteen, So we got a thirty
Speaker 4: three percent chance. Well, no, because you're doing a bunch
Speaker 4: of times every year. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of
Speaker 4: doing a lot of trips. Yeah it's not one trip
Speaker 4: a year, it's not that lucrative, but yeah it's you know.
Speaker 4: So coming back to your charge videos, my kind of
Speaker 4: takeaway from them is a lot of them have a
Speaker 4: little more chaos than I would typically want to see,
Speaker 4: particularly if I was running the deal. But you know,
Speaker 4: everyone can sort of armchair quarterback these things. But the
Speaker 4: other one is just how difficult it is to adequately
Speaker 4: prepare yourself for that moment, Like, even as a professional hunter,
Speaker 4: how difficult it difficult it is to override like the
Speaker 4: natural brain chemistry impulses that you get under that kind
Speaker 4: of stress. Like it's just I look at the guy's
Speaker 4: body language, I look at like how they like what
Speaker 4: they're doing, and I can just see because I've been
Speaker 4: in that situation, I could just feel like what they're feeling,
Speaker 4: you know, And to me, it's like a mixture of
Speaker 4: like you get this huge rush of adrenaline, right, but
Speaker 4: you also get like this fight or flight thing. And
Speaker 4: I think what happens is as a part of your
Speaker 4: brain that like looks at the size and power of
Speaker 4: the thing, and it's like fights off the table. It's
Speaker 4: a flight this is a flight deal.
Speaker 1: Careful analysis, I've decided that this is.
Speaker 4: A flight deal. But the reality of it is you
Speaker 4: have to override that because you're really your best and
Speaker 4: pretty much only chance of survival with you know, some exceptions,
Speaker 4: is to just stand as still as you can and
Speaker 4: make a serviceable shot that's going to that's going to
Speaker 4: knock that thing down or turn it because ron and
Speaker 4: you're just gonna get flattened. Yeah, you're gonna get flattened
Speaker 4: trying to dodge too. They've got incredible ability to sort
Speaker 4: of like readjust their course and.
Speaker 1: They got hooks. They got hooks. Yeah, so he's got he's.
Speaker 4: Got, you know whatever, thirty six forty inches forty inches
Speaker 4: spread of reach, which, yeah, if he moves his neck,
Speaker 4: he can sort of rapidly readjust that to where they'll
Speaker 4: grab you and they get you with those hooks. That's
Speaker 4: what kills you. Sure gets man just a little bit.
Speaker 5: Rides off on its back.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, there was one recently where a guy was
Speaker 4: like kind of flicked up and on its back. I
Speaker 4: saw I saw a video of that. It's yeah, it's rough,
Speaker 4: but I mean, yeah again, I can sit here and
Speaker 4: say all these things, but in the moment, it's tough,
Speaker 4: really tough.
Speaker 1: Random and I are working on a project right now
Speaker 1: we do this. Have you heard of our stuff? Meet
Speaker 1: American history? But did the Long Hunters in the Mountain Men?
Speaker 1: We're doing buffalo hunters right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the the Long Hunt is one that was
Speaker 4: fascinating to me. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1: All good. We're doing buffalo hunters, the commercial buffalo hide hunters. Particularly,
Speaker 1: there's a couple of instances there where guys are getting
Speaker 1: in that case where guys get trampled or tore up
Speaker 1: by American buffalo American bison. What's happening to them is there,
Speaker 1: they got a dozen of them on the ground, but
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them, one.
Speaker 4: Is it's the dead ones that kill you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like whatever, and they're in there doing their
Speaker 1: work and all of.
Speaker 4: A sudden, it's it's up, it's up, and you know,
Speaker 4: like yeah, in their midst Yeah, And there's a handful
Speaker 4: of accounts like this, but there's one we saw where
Speaker 4: the guy.
Speaker 1: And all of it winds up on it because it's
Speaker 1: the only way to get clear of its horns. Oh okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: he gets like on it.
Speaker 4: Oh really it can't Yeah, I can't get it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's like grabbing the tail, I guess of like you
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a mention of that too. A
Speaker 1: guy got one's tail. Yeah, the guy wound up being
Speaker 1: like he wound up and trying to get out of
Speaker 1: its way on it and then I can't remember he
Speaker 1: rode it till it collapsed or whatever the hell he did. Yeah.
Speaker 6: My favorite one is the guy who jumps on his
Speaker 6: horse and then accidentally shoots his horse and.
Speaker 4: Oh dear, yeah, I'm I was. I always imagine that
Speaker 4: buffalo hunting, you know, in the American West, is like
Speaker 4: a longer range kind of pursuit, you know, with those
Speaker 4: sharps rifles and these guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these guys are these guys, they're like, in their
Speaker 1: preferred setup, they were two three hundred yards.
Speaker 4: Away, right, And is that I mean, obviously they were
Speaker 4: capable marksmen, But is that because the herd would just
Speaker 4: behave differently?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they're relying on a level of confusion. They're
Speaker 1: relying on the herd not really understand where the shooting's
Speaker 1: come from.
Speaker 4: Gotcha. And then.
Speaker 1: A thing that really surprised me about in all this
Speaker 1: research is, uh, two shots per animal was good? Okay,
Speaker 1: you'd brag about it. Oh interesting, Ye, you'd brag about
Speaker 1: two shots per animal. Okay, yeah, I would have assumed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's interesting.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 6: There's a counts of guys making a stock and then
Speaker 6: realizing they're too close, back backing out another one hundred
Speaker 6: and fifty yards or something like Seth did with his dear.
Speaker 4: Ye, not intentionally.
Speaker 1: The philosophy of these guys, yeah, and it like evolves,
Speaker 1: But the hunting philosophy of them is that you whatever
Speaker 1: one seems to be, there's like there's a drift to
Speaker 1: the group or whatever. So whatever one seems to be
Speaker 1: the point, Yeah, they like to wound it.
Speaker 4: Oh the lead animal okay, yeah, and then the sless
Speaker 4: the hoods rules.
Speaker 1: And then you watch and whoever seems most inclined to
Speaker 1: take John to leave wound that one, yep. And then
Speaker 1: whoever seems most inclined to leave and then hitting him
Speaker 1: in a way that they don't run. And what's kind
Speaker 1: of gruesome bo is it was sometimes intentionally hit him
Speaker 1: in front of the hips.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's one guy likes to shoot him in front
Speaker 6: of the hips. They just arch their backs and kind
Speaker 6: of just stagger around.
Speaker 4: Because then the other ones are like, well he's not leaving, yeah, gotcha. Okay,
Speaker 4: so they like this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's still standing here. I mean there's like
Speaker 1: a there's a.
Speaker 4: Real different ethetic and there's.
Speaker 1: No you know, the thing we've observed. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to talk about it too much, right NOx, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about a lot more later. But the thing we've observed
Speaker 1: is out of the Long Hunters, you have like American heroes, yeah,
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone primarily out of the Mountain Men, you have
Speaker 1: Jim Bridger. Yep, the Hide Hunters produce no heroes.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, sort of they've cut they produced no heroes.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no American hero spun out of that gang.
Speaker 4: It took a different sort and took more of a rug.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, just like a oh just there's a wickedness too.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, it's it's just like what they their
Speaker 1: skill set and all that, and their toughness is like undeniable.
Speaker 1: It's like unparalleled what they could endure. But there's just
Speaker 1: a brutality. Yeah, that emerges that you don't. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: sort of like an awareness ethical gap and an awareness,
Speaker 1: an intense, deliberate spoken awareness that you're getting them all
Speaker 1: like you knew, they knew.
Speaker 4: By and large they knew exactly what they were doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah's and by and large did not care. It's just
Speaker 4: a different gang man, a different gang. You know, a
Speaker 4: lot of the great African professional hunters of of last
Speaker 4: century were at different times kind of doubled as like
Speaker 4: game control officers or were given the task of eradicating
Speaker 4: a large amount of game, either to make way for
Speaker 4: agriculture or human settlement, you know, relocating different tribal groups
Speaker 4: or white settlement in East Africa. And yeah, it was
Speaker 4: it's interesting how they could kind of go. I definitely
Speaker 4: wouldn't suggest at all that they were able to kind
Speaker 4: of go as down and dirty as those Buffalo guys,
Speaker 4: like intentionally wounding stuff. Would I wouldn't suggest that that
Speaker 4: was kind of part of the program. But they were
Speaker 4: able to make this transition from being a very ethical,
Speaker 4: very kind of very much focused on adhering to you know,
Speaker 4: ethical constraints and game laws and things like that, to
Speaker 4: going and kind of culling large numbers of l in
Speaker 4: buffalo and other species to kind of make way from
Speaker 4: for agriculture and then kind of seamlessly transitioned back into
Speaker 4: very selective you know a lot of kind of European
Speaker 4: sensibilities to it, kind of professional hunting. Yeah, which is
Speaker 4: interesting to me. And what year was that Craper guys
Speaker 4: coming up? Was that like in the is that like
Speaker 4: the guys that were emerging around that.
Speaker 1: Sort of heyday that kind of like Hemingway heyday of
Speaker 1: the Yeah, thirties and forties for sure, right.
Speaker 4: Up until so I would say from that, you know,
Speaker 4: the early sort of pre First War, World War right
Speaker 4: up until the kind of yeah, the heyday of the
Speaker 4: fifties and then and then.
Speaker 1: The heyday was pulse. I was stupid to see the
Speaker 1: thirties and forties because the headache was pulst World War two.
Speaker 4: Well, there was sort of two. I mean, it depends
Speaker 4: on how you look at it. You know, there was.
Speaker 4: To me, kind of defining the heyday is difficult because
Speaker 4: there was different things that were good about different eras.
Speaker 4: You know, the eighteen nineties were incredible as far it
Speaker 4: was like Theodore Roosevelt. Yeah, well his was nineteen oh nine,
Speaker 4: I think was his Safari and so, you know, just
Speaker 4: before that, you know, things were Africa was so unexplored
Speaker 4: and so wild. But on the you know, the downside
Speaker 4: of that era was your firearm technology wasn't you know,
Speaker 4: where it was post the first after the First World War,
Speaker 4: and then also you know, your risk of dying of
Speaker 4: some tropical disease or whatever, it was massive. You know,
Speaker 4: the end of the First World War was a real
Speaker 4: golden age because the the British then acquired what was
Speaker 4: then Tanganika which is now Tanzania and sort of added
Speaker 4: that to their you know, territory that they could hunt
Speaker 4: and there was a lot of kind of exploration and
Speaker 4: opening up of that country, which is fascinating. And obviously
Speaker 4: the firearm technology had come away a long way as
Speaker 4: a medical stuff. And then you have the arrival of
Speaker 4: the motor car in the thirties, which really changed the
Speaker 4: game as far as where you could get and that
Speaker 4: was kind of what precipitated a lot of the change
Speaker 4: where even the East African Professional Hunters Association saw the
Speaker 4: riding on the wall that Safari was going to go
Speaker 4: in a totally different direction because it would open up
Speaker 4: this possibility for a new clientele that had less time
Speaker 4: to dedicate it to it. Like the Roosevelt Safari was
Speaker 4: a full year because there was you know, they had
Speaker 4: some trucks and that forgetting, but there was no roads.
Speaker 4: You know, the motor cars weren't widely available, so a
Speaker 4: lot of it was just on foot. You know, they
Speaker 4: would go out and hundreds of porters carrying their gear
Speaker 4: and just kind of march out into the wilderness. Whereas
Speaker 4: the motor car changed it where you could have shorter
Speaker 4: duration safaris, you could get places quicker, you could you know,
Speaker 4: the logistical aspect of it was more kind of under control.
Speaker 4: And then you know, the arrival of the aeroplane, so
Speaker 4: you know that really allowed people from the US and
Speaker 4: you know Europe as well to kind of it just
Speaker 4: became more accessible.
Speaker 1: Speaking of the airplane, you know what I can't get
Speaker 1: into what's that? The book?
Speaker 4: You got me onto? Oh West the Night? Yeah, West
Speaker 4: with the Knight. You canind of get into it. Struggling, Really,
Speaker 4: you don't what you don't like Beryl's her right style.
Speaker 1: No stylistic I don't like her as a stylist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know there's a little bit of controversy that
Speaker 1: there's like some people say.
Speaker 4: That she didn't write it.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know if I believe that or not.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not it doesn't look.
Speaker 4: To me like there. I think her achievements don't. It
Speaker 4: doesn't take any if she didn't write it, doesn't take
Speaker 4: anything away from her achievements.
Speaker 1: It happens to women because you know that there's a
Speaker 1: there's an argument that Harper Lee didn't write to Kill
Speaker 1: a Market it was written by true Mcapodi.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've heard that.
Speaker 1: Anyhow, I can't get into it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. It's a it's a
Speaker 4: great book, but no, it's not. Well, it's a matter
Speaker 4: of opinion.
Speaker 1: She was appreciative.
Speaker 4: She was an impressive woman, there's no question it. Sure,
Speaker 4: and in an era where get to your point. I mean,
Speaker 4: even the great Karen Blixen wrote under under the sort
Speaker 4: of pseudonym of Isaac Dinnison when she first published Out
Speaker 4: of Africa.
Speaker 8: What.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gotta figure I should have learned that from the book.
Speaker 1: I'm the other disappointed.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I'm surprised you didn't go into that and
Speaker 4: into those nuances.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, we gotta do chili. These are chili
Speaker 1: has a hunting story to share with us. Oh good
Speaker 1: New Zealand hunts do a New Zealand accent.
Speaker 4: Uh, it is so hard.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, well you can't because then you gotta
Speaker 1: word you got to use the C word every other word.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's a hard tart one.
Speaker 4: That was.
Speaker 3: That was probably the funnest part about being on there,
Speaker 3: because you.
Speaker 1: Know what when I came home from there, When I
Speaker 1: came home from there, I had like I made the mistake.
Speaker 1: I made the mistake one time of arguing my wife.
Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, well I didn't know.
Speaker 7: We've talked about this on the podcast before.
Speaker 4: It doesn't go well.
Speaker 2: The energy of a kiwi is.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's just like you can't. You can't do
Speaker 1: their thing because their thing every it's like their thing
Speaker 1: relies on like how we use the word and a
Speaker 1: lot they use the sea word.
Speaker 4: It's but it's a term of endearment. Really, it's not.
Speaker 4: It's not like it's much more universal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean like there's ways that they say it,
Speaker 3: Like if if you were to get called like a
Speaker 3: right sea word, like what they called you that like oh,
Speaker 3: he's being right whatever then like you're not you're in
Speaker 3: the cross HEAs.
Speaker 2: I mean I've recently been.
Speaker 8: And they're Irish and they use it every other word,
Speaker 8: but I guess I've not.
Speaker 3: I said it the other day here in Bozeman my
Speaker 3: house is like, yeah, it's a terrible thing.
Speaker 1: That's why I can't go back.
Speaker 4: That's no good.
Speaker 5: I can go back just to be able to say
Speaker 5: that's great.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't know if I could do the
Speaker 4: like hey bro, hey you go you knowing that in
Speaker 4: Australian it's that they sort of flatten their vows so
Speaker 4: like I would say chips and they'd say chips.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: I feel like they also are just they're more like
Speaker 3: kind of calm about it, like they're like they're being so.
Speaker 4: Much more located.
Speaker 1: Do you're again with more confidence?
Speaker 4: Hey bro, hey gown.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's that's something different.
Speaker 4: That's like that's like I.
Speaker 3: Can't I can do the Australian like if I mean
Speaker 3: you think, do you think, hey.
Speaker 1: Bro, hey bro is New Zealand is it more of
Speaker 1: a hey bro, hey bro? Yeah, listen your body when
Speaker 1: the mind and go hey bro, I don't know and
Speaker 1: then ask him what do you think I'm doing right now?
Speaker 1: I spent thirteen days there.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna be like a subject matter expert.
Speaker 1: Hey bro, he's not gonna say I think you'd be
Speaker 1: in New Zealand.
Speaker 4: No, hey bro, no, he's the zaying I declined to
Speaker 4: do that America.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 3: I can't Jesus.
Speaker 6: I gotta think of like a word or like a phrase,
Speaker 6: don't do uh hey bro. All I can think of
Speaker 6: is just lines from flight of the content.
Speaker 9: That's all I'm thinking right, just like banned meeting.
Speaker 3: So it's like you're talking about Honting, Like, so we're
Speaker 3: gonna go over there. Yeah, I can't do it.
Speaker 1: It's very effeminate. I know they talk like they over there.
Speaker 3: The guys you're with the Yeah, I'm gonna get I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get hemmed up. I know I am. Zan's gonna
Speaker 3: watch this and he's gonna call me a right to.
Speaker 1: Talk like New Zealand. That's fine, but yeah, we we go.
Speaker 3: We went to New Zealand for thirteen days to do
Speaker 3: a public land uh Tar hunt. That was that was
Speaker 3: the main goal.
Speaker 2: Yep, for for me, you enlighten me about tar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess like the best way I could
Speaker 3: describe tar to somebody like that hunts a lot in
Speaker 3: North America would be to describe them as like kind
Speaker 3: of like they're very similar to like a North American mountain, go,
Speaker 3: like you know that's how I described like, same kind
Speaker 3: of environment.
Speaker 1: Same horns, kind of weird, kind of weird bald faces.
Speaker 3: Yeah, weird bald faces, huge maine like kind of like
Speaker 3: a lion's mane on their torso. And you know, based
Speaker 3: off of like how old they are or or whatever
Speaker 3: like that, the horns and the main will change, like
Speaker 3: the older they get, I think the more blonde. From
Speaker 3: what I was described or what I was told, it's
Speaker 3: like the older they get, the more blonde. Like I
Speaker 3: don't know if there'll be some Yeah, there'll be some pictures.
Speaker 3: I think Phil will throw up there. But the funny thing.
Speaker 1: About do you want to see those pictures?
Speaker 7: Tuned into Radio Live that aired several weeks ago, because
Speaker 7: that's what we'll be talking about.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, you put it on, but yeah, like the like, well,
Speaker 3: I'll get into it. But from the tar that I shot,
Speaker 3: it was about a five and a half year old
Speaker 3: that the horns have rings, kind of like your big
Speaker 3: horn sheet, so that's how you kind of age them.
Speaker 3: And the tar that I shot was about five and
Speaker 3: a half but it was super blonde, and Zane told me,
Speaker 3: he's like, I've never seen a five and a half
Speaker 3: year old with that color of a man, so I
Speaker 3: thought that was kind of cool. When I shot mine,
Speaker 3: there was a darker and older tar bowl they call
Speaker 3: him bulls and Nannies. He was right next to the
Speaker 3: one I shot, and uh, but for some reason, I
Speaker 3: just found this one to be a lot more pretty.
Speaker 3: I was more interested in the one that I shot.
Speaker 1: Did you say they call him so it's I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't remember this. It's bulls and nannies, not billies
Speaker 1: and nannies, not bulls and cows.
Speaker 4: It's bulls and nannies.
Speaker 5: Yells.
Speaker 4: And then.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so.
Speaker 3: Chilly.
Speaker 1: Look at that look good?
Speaker 4: Nice one?
Speaker 2: Yeah great, Yeah, that's that's beautiful. You sent me some photos.
Speaker 8: It looks like the American alpine too, and I got
Speaker 8: a darker face and then really blonde.
Speaker 3: Talking about chilli or the animal, yeah, it's my spirit
Speaker 3: animal that things.
Speaker 5: Probably I like the Southern hemisphere, it does.
Speaker 3: I also want to point out that that's not where
Speaker 3: I mean, that's not where I shot that thing. That's
Speaker 3: we're kind of like in the river bottom. We had
Speaker 3: to get that thing flown out because I couldn't we
Speaker 3: couldn't physically get.
Speaker 2: There flown out. Oh that's very helpful.
Speaker 1: I Well, so like I shot fell where you couldn't
Speaker 1: retrieve it.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, like we thought we could get up there
Speaker 3: from where we were standing, and then so I shot it,
Speaker 3: So we get we get up to where we go.
Speaker 1: I want.
Speaker 3: I wanted to find these tar and we found them
Speaker 3: pretty early in the morning, hoping they would come back down,
Speaker 3: but they never did. And uh, when I shot I
Speaker 3: hit it. I showed Zane or the photos in the
Speaker 3: video of me shooting it, and he goes, I don't
Speaker 3: think that we're going to be able to get up there?
Speaker 9: And is that what this picture is, Chili?
Speaker 4: Are you pointing up there?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So, like my body's kind of in front of the mountaintop.
Speaker 3: But we thought we would be able to zigzag our
Speaker 3: way up there and at least try to try to
Speaker 3: locate it the next day because we had I think
Speaker 3: I shot it with about an hour left of daylight left,
Speaker 3: but I showed.
Speaker 5: Zany's just like, yeah, it's not worth it.
Speaker 3: So the next morning Scott from Helly Rural Flights, he
Speaker 3: came out and uh, and he picked it up and
Speaker 3: so he had to get it. And like when Zane
Speaker 3: got back after they dropped it off back at camp,
Speaker 3: Zams is like, there's absolutely no way you were to
Speaker 3: get up there because it it from I shot it
Speaker 3: and it fell pretty much on this ice shelf. And
Speaker 3: Zane said, if like if it would have like slid
Speaker 3: two more yards, it would have kind of went all
Speaker 3: the way to the bottom and you would.
Speaker 1: Be able to get it.
Speaker 3: But he's like, if on foot, there's just absolutely no way.
Speaker 1: So but oh, that's sweet. That's your camp.
Speaker 4: That's were you on the eastern or the western side
Speaker 4: of the Alps. We were on the eastern side, eastern side.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd done that hunt grueling, yeah.
Speaker 3: And just it's that's such a pretty placed I mean,
Speaker 3: we we didn't have a lot of options like where
Speaker 3: we could go. I mean that that super greenside kind
Speaker 3: of off to my left there, that was like the
Speaker 3: main mountain we were hunting. But sorry, my watch is
Speaker 3: going crazy, but we could kind of go around to
Speaker 3: the right in between the snow Capped Mountain and in
Speaker 3: the green Side Mountain. There we go up there, but
Speaker 3: there's a glacier in between those two mountains, and there's
Speaker 3: a great glacier off to my off my right shoulder too,
Speaker 3: so we couldn't really go anywhere other than straight up
Speaker 3: the mountain or off to the left, so we were
Speaker 3: kind of limited. But it was just unreal country. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we drank water from the glacier on the glacier rivers,
Speaker 3: like that was super fun. That was from where I
Speaker 3: shot and down at the bottom you can see the
Speaker 3: kind of screen field that's where we were camping. Yeah,
Speaker 3: super abrasive and super like intimidating country. Like I wasn't
Speaker 3: I knew it was gonna be tough, but I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think I was like mentally prepared as much
Speaker 3: as I should have been.
Speaker 5: But uh, yeah, no, it was.
Speaker 3: It was a great trip, a lot of fun stories
Speaker 3: that that was definitely like a hunt of a lifetime
Speaker 3: for me. It was interesting learning about like tar and
Speaker 3: like how they how they hunt down there, and like
Speaker 3: like private land, public land and all that all that stuff,
Speaker 3: like there is public there's kind of like three main
Speaker 3: ways to hunt that you got like your your kind
Speaker 3: of your game ranches, which would be like your c
Speaker 3: A ranch or your Galt ranch, staying at a lodge,
Speaker 3: hunting private land, and then you got your public and
Speaker 3: then you got like free range private. So the guys
Speaker 3: will like, if you want to shoot a stag, guidled
Speaker 3: by the stag and then put it out on private
Speaker 3: and then you just go hunt it, So say.
Speaker 1: That again, Oh yeah, I got you, you know.
Speaker 4: Deal, Yeah, which is what two.
Speaker 3: Of the guys did for the stag and fallow. So
Speaker 3: but that was fun to kind of do that. Like
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't hunt stag follow bit.
Speaker 1: You didn't run in any shammies shamah.
Speaker 3: Uh not not on No. When there was a guy
Speaker 3: that was with us and he opted in to shoot
Speaker 3: a private lantar via helicopter and so he's got he
Speaker 3: just got flown in and hunted a tar that way.
Speaker 3: He They said that they when they were doing that,
Speaker 3: they saw some shammy on this private land. But I
Speaker 3: wasn't with them at the time, and but yeah, apparently
Speaker 3: they're kind of the numbers of of tar and shammy
Speaker 3: from what I was told in the area that we
Speaker 3: were in there kind of getting decimated.
Speaker 1: Because that's intentional because the I mean they helicopter gun
Speaker 1: him to reduce the numbers.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, so Zay called it tarmageddon.
Speaker 3: Back in the day, there was just so many tar
Speaker 3: and they made like this helo the HeLa hunting legal
Speaker 3: and like you could do that, and so they just
Speaker 3: like absolutely decimated the population. And you could argue, I
Speaker 3: mean that's good and bad because they were overrunning and
Speaker 3: they were very much overpopulated. But when I talked to
Speaker 3: like Zaye, he goes, yeah, it kind of makes it
Speaker 3: like hard when you have clients and you're going into
Speaker 3: a public spot like we probably saw I don't know,
Speaker 3: twenty tar up on top of this mountain, and he goes,
Speaker 3: you told us he's like ten years ago there'd be
Speaker 3: hundreds on this mountain, and so like, yeah, you could
Speaker 3: argue both sides of the story. But yeah, from from
Speaker 3: what Zam was saying is like he's not seen the
Speaker 3: numbers that he would like to see.
Speaker 1: There's often that tension with these with places Australia speaking
Speaker 1: for your homeland, New Zealand, Hawaii, Okay, where you have
Speaker 1: non native populations of game and you have like the
Speaker 1: environmental movement or more like like kind of like the
Speaker 1: radical end of the environmental movement wants to see them
Speaker 1: all eliminated, which puts them in an odd position because
Speaker 1: they're arguing for you know, it's it's like they're arguing
Speaker 1: for like sort of the death of the animals, pointing
Speaker 1: out that they're non native. And then you have the
Speaker 1: hunters who are like being like, yeah, I control is fine,
Speaker 1: but I don't want them eliminated because by this point
Speaker 1: you have a century or more of people who've grown
Speaker 1: up with the resource. Yep. You know, you hear like
Speaker 1: it's pretty commoner, you know, and and and you get
Speaker 1: it in Hawaii, where there's there's groups will buy like
Speaker 1: preservation groups will buy stuff, and they want the goats gone,
Speaker 1: the sheep gone, the hogs gone. And then you got
Speaker 1: like Hawaiian dudes who hunt, and they're on the end
Speaker 1: of being like, man, you're kind of like destroying our
Speaker 1: our resource. And we don't really care if they're technically
Speaker 1: native or non native or whatever. They're here, They've been here,
Speaker 1: We've always hunted them. My grandpa hunted them. Don't tell
Speaker 1: me they don't belong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like I think like the big issue down there,
Speaker 3: Zan called him greenies, you know, but the their argument
Speaker 3: is that there's a where they like what the tar eat,
Speaker 3: and then in tar's case, they're eating like vegetation. They're
Speaker 3: they're just destroying like a plant and taking it out.
Speaker 3: So yeah, when term again happened, that was like the
Speaker 3: main the main argument was like, well they're destroying and
Speaker 3: this plant and this this grassland.
Speaker 1: And plant plant biodiversity. That's the argument Hawaii to plant biodiversity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, I think you just got to have
Speaker 3: a certain level of conservation when it comes to that.
Speaker 3: You can't like decimate the population, but you can't like
Speaker 3: let them run free too, so you gotta be well.
Speaker 4: And I don't know how well Himalayan tar are doing
Speaker 4: in their native range either. It would be a shame
Speaker 4: to lose that that population. And I mean it's certainly
Speaker 4: I don't know if there is a huntable population of
Speaker 4: them in their native range.
Speaker 2: They might be Yeah, southern Northern Indian, a western Bhutan
Speaker 2: and Nepal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and I wonder if there is a is
Speaker 4: a huntable population there. I'm not sure, but I somehow
Speaker 4: doubt that if there is it's very large. So it's
Speaker 4: important I think, to have you know, have that kind
Speaker 4: of repository of genetics there in New Zealand. But yeah,
Speaker 4: that preservationist kind of impulse to just like get rid
Speaker 4: of it take it back, especially in a place like
Speaker 4: New Zealand has no native mammal seems a little strong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's either super far left or super far right.
Speaker 3: I mean, but I don't know as far as like
Speaker 3: the hunting goes. Like it was. It was tough and
Speaker 3: it wasn't like ideal from Zane's perspective, but it was
Speaker 3: still like a really great hunt. Like watching tar like
Speaker 3: just up on top of these mountains and doing their
Speaker 3: thing like that was it was unreal, Like I said,
Speaker 3: triple a lifetime.
Speaker 1: Well, your observation about mountain goats, it's like more likely
Speaker 1: that that's even more like mountain goats umbers you saw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would climb up and be like, oh, there's two
Speaker 1: hundred billies up there, right, You're like you're like chasing
Speaker 1: like a billy or two right, you know, And obviously
Speaker 1: depends on like what sort of like where you're at.
Speaker 3: You know, like one area is going to have a
Speaker 3: bunch of them and the next might not. It's like
Speaker 3: it's typical for any sort of hunting that you do.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess I kind of had this false
Speaker 3: narrative like going in to New Zealand. You know, I've
Speaker 3: never I've never paid for a hunt like this, I've
Speaker 3: never done anything like this, and so I kind of
Speaker 3: had this this ideology that like I'm gonna go there
Speaker 3: and I'm going to be looking at two hunder tar
Speaker 3: every single day. Oh and like quickly learned that that
Speaker 3: was not the case. But I mean it was still
Speaker 3: it was like it was more authentic. I would say,
Speaker 3: like I got like, obviously I was in New Zealand,
Speaker 3: but I felt like I was back here in Montana
Speaker 3: trying to find an elk or you know, a bear
Speaker 3: or something like that, which was which I enjoyed. It
Speaker 3: made it made it feel a lot more genuine.
Speaker 4: Absolutely so it was it was good well done, good.
Speaker 1: Work, chili.
Speaker 8: Yeah did you get to do you get to bring
Speaker 8: what do you get to bring back and not bring
Speaker 8: back and eat or try or not?
Speaker 3: So so you can bring to mynology. You can bring
Speaker 3: the meatback. We we did not we ate a lot
Speaker 3: of it down there for for days, but then we
Speaker 3: just donated the meat. The reason being like it's just
Speaker 3: you know, like bags were super expensive, like to like
Speaker 3: I would probably had to bring bring three additional bags
Speaker 3: and like just for two bags down there, it was
Speaker 3: already four hundred. But oh it was good. I mean
Speaker 3: I didn't there's nothing about it that was just like
Speaker 3: if I were to eat this again, like this is
Speaker 3: gonna be this is tar. I mean it was a
Speaker 3: red meat. It was you know, wild game meat, and
Speaker 3: but I thought it was good. Uh, I definitely need
Speaker 3: it again.
Speaker 2: Adjacent to anything else you've tried, Like you know.
Speaker 3: Nothing really stood out to me about it, like I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean like it wasn't that much like I would
Speaker 3: probably say, yeah, Clo, I'm I don't know, maybe like
Speaker 3: an elk ish, but like not like if you have
Speaker 3: like a really good elk, like you know it's elk,
Speaker 3: I'd say it's like your average elk.
Speaker 1: I mean to me.
Speaker 3: But ye as far as like what we can bring back,
Speaker 3: like you can bring I'm gonna bring back like the
Speaker 3: high I'm gonna get a shoulder mount and then I'm
Speaker 3: gonna keep the euro Mount as well, so I'll replicate
Speaker 3: the horns, put those on the shoulder mount and then
Speaker 3: keep the euro mount.
Speaker 1: But yeah, who's gonna stuff it for you?
Speaker 3: Well, I see, I'm gonna talk to John.
Speaker 1: Hey, he's stuffing a couple of things for us right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hey's taxi ar me. I'm gonna talk to him.
Speaker 3: I don't really have a taxi army guy, because I've
Speaker 3: I've I don't even have a shoulder mount. All my
Speaker 3: euro mounts I do myself. So like this is a
Speaker 3: whole new experience for me as well.
Speaker 1: So he's gonna do that big beaver. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: uh yeah the Boston with the boys. Guys, they want
Speaker 1: that beaver done, like what do they call that three
Speaker 1: point stance in football? Yeah, they want a beaver done
Speaker 1: in a three point football stance. And then he's gonna
Speaker 1: stuff my Uh, he's gonna do the rug with my kids.
Speaker 1: First bear wallhanger rug? Got you stuffed in head?
Speaker 3: I wanted to do a wallhanger rug like that mountain
Speaker 3: go there.
Speaker 1: But well that's what I. Have you ever hear the
Speaker 1: writer Ben Wallace? I have not you ever hear the
Speaker 1: book The Billionaires Vinegar?
Speaker 3: I have not?
Speaker 1: Are you aware of the fourth Coming book? About the
Speaker 1: guy that invented bitcoin, the mysterious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely familiar with that.
Speaker 1: That fourth Coming book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fourth coming book.
Speaker 1: He wrote that.
Speaker 3: Okay, well.
Speaker 1: I gave him my tar rug. Yeah, you've told me
Speaker 1: this story, and I reached out recently just want to
Speaker 1: just make sure it wasn't in some storage unit. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, while I got you, how's that tar
Speaker 1: rug sitting right here in my office? Love it?
Speaker 3: Like I kind of told you that he that he
Speaker 3: likes it. You're not getting any because.
Speaker 1: If he said, oh, you know, it's in the storage unit,
Speaker 1: I would have gotten it back. But he still likes it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I I wanted to do that, but I talked to
Speaker 3: when I was talking with Zaying, I'm like, hey, you know,
Speaker 3: like would that be like I don't know if because
Speaker 3: they're pretty connected with those guys are pretty connected with
Speaker 3: those animals, you know, they they have like honorable ways
Speaker 3: of doing things and and uh so I was like, hey,
Speaker 3: what would be like the best way to kind of
Speaker 3: like just honor this animal, Like what would you do
Speaker 3: with this thing? And he's like, well, honestly, i'd shoulder mounted.
Speaker 3: Like I think a shoulder mount is a good shoulder
Speaker 3: Mountain is a good representation of like this animal. And
Speaker 3: he goes, not a lot of people do the rug thing.
Speaker 3: He's like, it's not it's not a bad way to
Speaker 3: do it. He goes, but like with yours, since my
Speaker 3: man was so blonde, and he goes like, you're gonna
Speaker 3: if you rug it out, you're gonna cut through the
Speaker 3: middle of that and then you're gonna flay it out
Speaker 3: and it's not gonna look the same. So to kind
Speaker 3: of get yeah, to kind of I guess, capture the
Speaker 3: essence of that that creature, he said, shoulder mount So that's.
Speaker 1: What I did.
Speaker 4: Where you're gonna hang it right.
Speaker 3: Above my Bed's good idea, right above the bed.
Speaker 1: Watch his transition. Well, I can't transition out of your story.
Speaker 1: Oh is your story done? Oh? One last question is
Speaker 1: that that co whticle tire? Is it tuned up?
Speaker 4: Good?
Speaker 1: Playing good for you?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know where that thing's at, to
Speaker 3: be honest, it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not playing good right now? No, what do you what?
Speaker 3: What is that the transition?
Speaker 1: No, there's a follow up question. Uh so I don't
Speaker 1: I don't have a transition out of that. But I'm
Speaker 1: going to do a thing, and then you'll see that
Speaker 1: it transitions into something else. I sent crena article the
Speaker 1: other day. It's actually a tragedy. Right, But there's a
Speaker 1: there's a man. There's there's a guy in Florida and
Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer described his criminal history as meth
Speaker 1: This is a quote quote meth arrest, meth arrest, meth arrest,
Speaker 1: meth arrest, meth arrest.
Speaker 9: So he does some myth.
Speaker 4: Yeah, doesn't leave to the imagination.
Speaker 3: Now where the story is going.
Speaker 1: He had some kind of psychotic break, swam a lake,
Speaker 1: like like law enforcement was after him. He like swam
Speaker 1: a lake and gets attacked by an alligator in the lake.
Speaker 1: Comes out. They tried, I think they tried to tase him.
Speaker 2: Didn't work. He was unbothered by that.
Speaker 1: So here is he's been attacked by an alligator in
Speaker 1: his arm, shrugged it off. Well, they ended up they
Speaker 1: ended up having to kill the guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he tried to take the firearms off.
Speaker 5: What did they do the alligator?
Speaker 1: There's no follow about the alligator.
Speaker 3: It's a great question, thank you.
Speaker 4: Impressive that he managed to get free. Well that that baby,
Speaker 4: you know, I know what the headline is.
Speaker 1: Bitten by alligator, man is killed after charging at deputies.
Speaker 1: Sheriff says. Then the authorities say that Timothy Shoals, forty two,
Speaker 1: of Mulberry, Florida, swam across an alligator filled lake before
Speaker 1: a violent encounter with deputies in the neighborhood. Most guys,
Speaker 1: that's gonna take the fight out of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would think so, I would think.
Speaker 8: I message back that I thought he was on bath
Speaker 8: salts or something. I think, uh, or just there's something
Speaker 8: real strong too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He was trying to get a shotgun out of a
Speaker 1: cop car. Yeah, I'll get you a shot yep. But
Speaker 1: the whole, the main gist of the article is that
Speaker 1: you get into it late and get attacked by a
Speaker 1: gator and come out fighting.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, but juice him up made an altered state.
Speaker 9: That's not impressive if you're on math.
Speaker 4: I know not.
Speaker 1: That's not the word I'm looking for. I mean, just
Speaker 1: like it's it's extraordinary, as evidenced by the fact that
Speaker 1: it was reported started that like the article like that
Speaker 1: catches a fellow's eye, Yeah, the New York Times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like in my mind, once you read about it.
Speaker 9: You're like, oh, he's on myth and I just like, hmm,
Speaker 9: it just kind of doesn't make it seem as cool.
Speaker 4: I don't know that cool is something.
Speaker 1: I had my cool chart out and I was trying
Speaker 1: to figure out where to plot.
Speaker 5: To press less cool.
Speaker 1: So so just to just to get into your head here, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. It winds up that this guy is
Speaker 1: stone cold, sobered, stone cold, ten am Monday morning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: gets attacked by a game and then tries to kill
Speaker 1: some cops. You'd put that like, if you.
Speaker 4: Know this is just the gator thing.
Speaker 9: Oh okay, like you said about how you just shrugged
Speaker 9: off a gator attack.
Speaker 1: Oh, just the ability to shrug off a gator attack,
Speaker 1: that's what you made it sound like.
Speaker 9: That's what what was like interesting to you about this.
Speaker 4: Kind of been very big of a gator.
Speaker 7: I don't but a guy struggling off a gator attack
Speaker 7: on meth is not that impressive to me.
Speaker 9: It doesn't seem that cool. I understand the cop the
Speaker 9: whole cop thing is not cool.
Speaker 1: I understand.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like charge the cops won.
Speaker 8: So if the guy is super charged by meth and
Speaker 8: doesn't feel that his arm has been bitten by a gator,
Speaker 8: that is less surprising that he would shrug it off
Speaker 8: or not even be all there to experience it, versus
Speaker 8: if a guy were sober, and would you know.
Speaker 1: When I first read this, I thought it was about
Speaker 1: a man. Then I started thinking it was about a gator.
Speaker 1: Now I think it's about a drug. And you know
Speaker 1: where my head's going. You know where my head's going next.
Speaker 1: And this is the sad part, And this is like
Speaker 1: why stories like this their eyes heart is like somewhere
Speaker 1: as a heartbroken mother.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you one other thing. No, if
Speaker 4: it's been a nile crocodile, he wouldn't have he wouldn't
Speaker 4: have got out of the out of the swamp. They're there.
Speaker 4: They are entirely more ruthless species than a gator as
Speaker 4: far as I can tell.
Speaker 1: Give me some specs on a now crocodile.
Speaker 4: Oh man, I mean they're they're massive creatures and I
Speaker 4: think that from what I can tell, they're one of
Speaker 4: those things similar to like I think i've heard this
Speaker 4: about like bass or over a certain size. For every
Speaker 4: inch they grow in length, they grow in girth. So
Speaker 4: the big ones are incredibly girthy. I mean I shot
Speaker 4: a fourteen foot one time and kind of like you
Speaker 4: could barely sit on its back.
Speaker 1: It was so so broad.
Speaker 4: We have one. We have one where you're going in
Speaker 4: Loganzo Game Reserve and Loganzo Game Reserve. There is a
Speaker 4: man eating crocodile currently on the on the loose. His
Speaker 4: name's barda Wayway, which in Kiswahili kind of trans it
Speaker 4: would kind of translate to like not yet you in
Speaker 4: so far as like he hasn't gotten you yet. Last year,
Speaker 4: last year he ate five fishermen.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, but how is he catching the people?
Speaker 4: He follows their canoes and he waits till they get
Speaker 4: out to unload their fishing nets, and then he nails them.
Speaker 2: Steve wants to go after him.
Speaker 4: Now he's got five people five last year. I don't
Speaker 4: know what the tally is now. I'll have to check
Speaker 4: in with the guys and see where we're at. But yeah,
Speaker 4: he's been absolutely terrorizing this village. I tried to get him.
Speaker 4: I think I saw him. I'm certain it was him.
Speaker 4: Because a big crocodile like that, they're quite territorial. I
Speaker 4: doubt there'd be another one of that size. In the
Speaker 4: same area, but he wouldn't come to my bait. He
Speaker 4: was too kg, too clever.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 3: So, what's like like the processes the hunters are just
Speaker 3: like keeping an eye out for him, and like they say,
Speaker 3: I'm shooting them.
Speaker 5: Or well, what's like the plan to sew well?
Speaker 4: First, first off, we weren't really aware of his existence
Speaker 4: until we did a kind of river based anti poaching patrol,
Speaker 4: which we do frequently, but we kind of pushed it
Speaker 4: into some areas where we hadn't done one in a while,
Speaker 4: and as a process, we caught some kind of guys
Speaker 4: violating the fishing laws. And you know, while they were
Speaker 4: kind of tained, our guys got to chatting with them
Speaker 4: and they sort of were telling this story about this
Speaker 4: particular man eating croc and so that kind of peaked
Speaker 4: my interest and I wanted to wanted to hunt him.
Speaker 1: Can you just just to help me, Yeah, understand this
Speaker 1: whole thing. Can you describe what is the village and
Speaker 1: how is it positioned, and what is the sort of
Speaker 1: like vibe in the village.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's on the edge of the game reserve,
Speaker 4: so it's in our hunting area, but it's outside of
Speaker 4: the boundaries of the game reserve itself. So there's an
Speaker 4: old German railway that kind of goes between the game
Speaker 4: reserve and Ugala National Park and then that kind of
Speaker 4: crosses a bridge, and where that crosses a bridge, there's
Speaker 4: a village there. It's a fishing village, you know, the
Speaker 4: people are there's some little bit agriculture and some other
Speaker 4: stuff going.
Speaker 1: What are they netting there?
Speaker 4: They're netting anything and everything, but primarily the species are lungfish, catfish,
Speaker 4: and tilapia, So.
Speaker 1: They're netting him for a commercial market, personal.
Speaker 4: Use a combination of both. So they subsist off them
Speaker 4: and then they dry and kind of smoke the surplus,
Speaker 4: and then then that gets transported to other kind of
Speaker 4: population centers where it's sold. How many people are in
Speaker 4: a village like that, I would guess there's in that
Speaker 4: one fifteen hundred two thousand, oh okay, So it's a
Speaker 4: good it's a good number of gotcha. And so they
Speaker 4: kind of they they go up and down the river.
Speaker 4: There's portions of the game reserve waters that they're not
Speaker 4: supposed to be in that they occasionally kind of violate,
Speaker 4: and there's there's laws about the size of nets they
Speaker 4: can use, the types of nets they can use, the
Speaker 4: kind of the you know, the amount of nets and
Speaker 4: hooks they can deploy and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So it's pretty like what would be recognizable to an Americans.
Speaker 4: Control fish regular yep. Fishing regularly, absolutely yep. They require
Speaker 4: a permit to fish, so they have to you know,
Speaker 4: they have to actually go and purchase a fishing permit
Speaker 4: that gives them a window of time in which they're
Speaker 4: allowed to fish. So it's it's a controlled fishery and
Speaker 4: we work together with TAWA Tanzania Wildlife Management Authority to
Speaker 4: kind of you know, keep tabs on that that fishery
Speaker 4: and how it's going, how it's impacting species, and it's
Speaker 4: an important ecosystem. There's obviously the crocodiles there which are
Speaker 4: an important species, the fish, the birds, the African clawless
Speaker 4: otter in that waterway as well.
Speaker 1: Whenever you heard of that beautiful Can I tell you
Speaker 1: a thing that I'm worried about that someone told me,
Speaker 1: someone told me I want to get back with crocodile.
Speaker 1: But just what you just mentioned that like clawless arter,
Speaker 1: someone told me that when you go to Africa for
Speaker 1: the first time, hm uh, you're so like overwhelmed and
Speaker 1: exhausted from the mental processing overwhelm that did it that
Speaker 1: you lose it, that you lose that, like you lose
Speaker 1: everything that's in the moment because you're so like tripped out.
Speaker 1: I could see that and the like only later when
Speaker 1: I got home, was I like able to kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: because like I was just overwhelmed. Yeah, it will be
Speaker 1: nice because you'll be documenting it, so you'll be able
Speaker 1: to revisit a lot of that, which is cool. But
Speaker 1: I think I can see that. I mean I can
Speaker 1: see there's certainly times even me, just the the wonder
Speaker 1: of it all, you know, just gets you.
Speaker 4: I Mean how big I would say, roughly the size
Speaker 4: of our kind of you know, the North American Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: about that size. Back to this crocodile. So yeah, so
Speaker 4: we found out about him the way we typically hunt crocodile,
Speaker 4: you can you can certainly have like sort of incidentally,
Speaker 4: like you'll be driving along the river or walking along
Speaker 4: the river and you'll see a sandbar or like a
Speaker 4: termite mound or something close to the river where they'll
Speaker 4: have slid up on and be kind of sunning themselves.
Speaker 4: And then you can kind of make a stalk and
Speaker 4: try and position yourself for a shot like that. A
Speaker 4: lot of times will will put bait. So we'll drive
Speaker 4: some kind of heavy steaks into the river bank if
Speaker 4: there's not a tree or a rock or something to
Speaker 4: anchor to, and put some some stinking meat there to
Speaker 4: draw them in. The big advantage of that is you
Speaker 4: can really control where you put it, because the problem
Speaker 4: with a crocodile unless you make the perfect shot that
Speaker 4: destroys its central nervous system, like instantly, one flick of
Speaker 4: that tail, if that gets them back into the main
Speaker 4: stem of the river where there's flow, and these rivers,
Speaker 4: you know, the Ugala River has significant flow. It's gone,
Speaker 4: he's gone never you'll never find it.
Speaker 1: So you hit them in the brain, right in the brain.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you try to sort of that we call it
Speaker 4: like the smile where they're kind of there, you know,
Speaker 4: their their jawline kind of goes like this, just above
Speaker 4: that and kind of between this little little horn on
Speaker 4: their head. You sort of try to shoot them there
Speaker 4: and it kind of if you do it correctly, it
Speaker 4: really pops their skull open. I mean it's quite it's
Speaker 4: a bit you know, it's quite visceral. But then you
Speaker 4: know they'll flick around a little bit, but they won't
Speaker 4: with their cash. They're done, Yeah, they're done. And then
Speaker 4: whereas you know, there are times when you can if
Speaker 4: you miss that shot, you know, like a next shot
Speaker 4: something like that, where you fail to sever the spine,
Speaker 4: or you you know, you hit them somewhere else, they're
Speaker 4: going to just flick right back into that deep water
Speaker 4: and you'll never find them even if they die, just
Speaker 4: get swept away.
Speaker 1: So when you bait them, are you trying to get
Speaker 1: him the moment he finds it, or is he going
Speaker 1: to start hitting the bait.
Speaker 4: He'll start hitting the bait, So you need to have
Speaker 4: a good look at him. I mean, you know, there's
Speaker 4: there's two ways, you know, and you've got a big
Speaker 4: crop coming. I mean one, you know, just the sort
Speaker 4: of size and scale of it, you can I find
Speaker 4: it very hard to judge them through binoculars. I've got
Speaker 4: to kind of look with my eyes. So you don't
Speaker 4: want to be too far away for that reason. Also,
Speaker 4: you know you're shot, you know you've got to you've
Speaker 4: got to put it in a little slot like that
Speaker 4: sort of three inch by three inch, so top of
Speaker 4: a single serving yogurt contander. Yeah, exactly, that's kind of
Speaker 4: what we're talking about. So you've got to be you
Speaker 4: want to be closer for that. But aside from that,
Speaker 4: you know when oftentimes you'll put these baits and you'll
Speaker 4: get a lot of small crocs on them. You know,
Speaker 4: there'll be five, six, seven, sometimes ten, like anywhere from
Speaker 4: six footers, eight footers down to three four footers kind
Speaker 4: of splashing around making a lot of noise, tearing this
Speaker 4: beta part. But when the big boys coming, like they
Speaker 4: can they can sense it, whether they make vibrations or
Speaker 4: vocalizations in the water something like that, these crocs split
Speaker 4: the little ones, will one big man evaporate, Yeah, and
Speaker 4: then you'll see this sort of head come up. They
Speaker 4: have like this big it's like a tennis ball on
Speaker 4: the end of their nose. And then you know, you'll
Speaker 4: you'll usually let them sort of get comfortable drag themselves
Speaker 4: out of Ideally you have the bait where they have
Speaker 4: to sort of drag themselves out of the water a
Speaker 4: little bit to kind of expose that shot. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: that's impressive and.
Speaker 1: Those water ways, is it inadvisable just to be down
Speaker 1: weighing around on the edge.
Speaker 4: I you can, you can do it. I mean there's
Speaker 4: area is like it just depends on how the water looks. Right,
Speaker 4: if you've got sort of a bit of a shallow flat,
Speaker 4: you could you can splash around there.
Speaker 1: No, he's not there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know you'd see him coming. You know, you'd
Speaker 4: have to make a wake. But like if there was
Speaker 4: a big pool, I wouldn't I wouldn't go near it.
Speaker 4: He could be just waiting, waiting there in ambush. You'd
Speaker 4: have a hard time seeing him. You won't know till
Speaker 4: he's got a hold of you and they move like lightning.
Speaker 9: To what what do you shooting those things with?
Speaker 4: Like what rifle you well, whichever one you shoot the best? Scope? Yeah,
Speaker 4: scope rifles ideal, Yeah, whatever you shoot, I mean typically
Speaker 4: will sometimes when you're sneaking up on them. You know,
Speaker 4: you'll you'll be following buffalo buffalo tracks by the river
Speaker 4: and it's okay, there's a massive croc on that sandbar
Speaker 4: and the guy's got his four sixteen. That's what you're
Speaker 4: shooting it with. Gotcha in an ideal world like where
Speaker 4: I had all the time in the world to set
Speaker 4: it up kind of build my blind, get everything staged.
Speaker 3: You know, six.
Speaker 4: Does the job again with that shot, You're not you're
Speaker 4: not trying to kind of achieve penetration. You're just trying
Speaker 4: to pop that brain open.
Speaker 1: Talk about sharp pleaseman, not to keep buffalo.
Speaker 4: I'm I am a firm proponent of the shoulder shot.
Speaker 4: So kind of come up that leg about a third
Speaker 4: of the sort of you know, third of the way
Speaker 4: up the body from the belly line, and put it
Speaker 4: right on the shoulder there in the like on the
Speaker 4: shot on the bone, not behind the shoulder, on the bone,
Speaker 4: break that shoulder. Because and this is something that that's changed,
Speaker 4: there will be some of the old school guys will
Speaker 4: very much disagree with me, and I will would argue
Speaker 4: that their thinking is rooted in a different era where
Speaker 4: high quality bullets weren't available. There was just a lot
Speaker 4: of junk, and so one would always try to shoot
Speaker 4: behind the shoulder to make sure that you got adequate penetration. Now,
Speaker 4: if you're shooting something along the lines of a Barn's
Speaker 4: TSX swift a frame that type stuff, it'll more than
Speaker 4: adequately penetrate that shoulder bone and then you break them down.
Speaker 4: They don't go as far. You know, it's it's a
Speaker 4: lot of trauma. A busted shoulder is really going to
Speaker 4: slow them down, hitting them right and the shoulder right
Speaker 4: in the shoulder, everything below the scapula or below the scapula, yeah,
Speaker 4: sort of somewhere near that joint, you know, somewhere where
Speaker 4: that scapula kind of joins on to the to the
Speaker 4: other bone there. Let's say he's cording away from you,
Speaker 4: cording away from you, you're gonna so what I like
Speaker 4: to talk about, I like say, imagine you have X
Speaker 4: ray vision, and so if you can't break the on
Speaker 4: side shoulder, shoot the off side shoulder. Well, if he's
Speaker 4: come with dead nuts, dead on. It depends on how
Speaker 4: he's holding his head. But when they typically sort of
Speaker 4: if they're a little bit curious, you know, they won't
Speaker 4: you know, they're sort of they've seen something, they'll kind
Speaker 4: of hold their head in a fairly I would say,
Speaker 4: fairly neutral position. It's not too up, it's not too down.
Speaker 4: Unless sometimes if they're they'll you know, they'll be laying
Speaker 4: under some vegetation kind of in the shade, and they'll
Speaker 4: still and up and to see you, they'll have to
Speaker 4: sort of dip their head to see under the vegetation.
Speaker 4: In that instance, it can be tough, but typically I
Speaker 4: sort of just go right below the chin kind of
Speaker 4: into you're trying to get it into this kind of
Speaker 4: clavigal gas, and that's not inadvisable. It's not my favorite,
Speaker 4: but sometimes if it's that or nothing right, like if
Speaker 4: it's if you've got to make that shot. But I'll
Speaker 4: tell you one thing about that shot. When it's done properly,
Speaker 4: it like it really rocks their world. So if they
Speaker 4: don't react to how I want, like how I would
Speaker 4: expect them to, that'll be a time where I'd consider
Speaker 4: backing up, because what can happen with that shot. If
Speaker 4: it's off. It'll kind of hit the sternum, which on
Speaker 4: those things is sort of like a you know, a
Speaker 4: very V shaped and obviously extremely robust piece of bone
Speaker 4: with a lot of sort of sagging skin hanging on it.
Speaker 4: And what that can do. The sagging skin will kind
Speaker 4: of set up the bullets so it really mushrooms quicker
Speaker 4: than it would on a sort of a torte like flank,
Speaker 4: and then it will hit that stern and kind of
Speaker 4: go along sort of track along the sternam and wind
Speaker 4: up kind of in the arm pit, if you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, having done no damage to the vitals,
Speaker 4: you'll get some blood. You follow that thing forever and
Speaker 4: it's it's it's a bad deal. So I don't. I
Speaker 4: don't love the frontal shot, but I don't. It's not
Speaker 4: off the table. It's not like we never do that.
Speaker 4: It's something that sometimes you've got to make it happen.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 4: And no Texas heart shots on a follow up shot, yes,
Speaker 4: Like as a first shot, absolutely not. But as as
Speaker 4: a follow up the Portuguese brain shot, I've never heard.
Speaker 1: Imagine it's running away.
Speaker 6: That's why it's important to travel people from other cultures.
Speaker 1: So because you learn about short placement.
Speaker 4: What's better on that follow up? Though? If they do
Speaker 4: spin and turn away, then your classic Texas Hartscher is
Speaker 4: trying to break that hip is so on.
Speaker 1: A follow up like, once you make your first careful shot,
Speaker 1: is any shot good?
Speaker 4: Give it to itt is good? Yeah, you didn't come
Speaker 4: all the way. So, like to your previous point about
Speaker 4: those other guys with like two shots on a on
Speaker 4: a bison was considered good, I don't. I don't have
Speaker 4: any the more the merrier God, if it's still on
Speaker 4: its feet, keep shooting. And then also for you know,
Speaker 4: reasons like those guys experience where it's as I said,
Speaker 4: the dead ones will kill you will oftentimes go up
Speaker 4: even if it's looking thoroughly deceased. Put another one in
Speaker 4: there as insurance.
Speaker 1: And then is there any situation where you ever tell
Speaker 1: a client, like on the the animal's fine, so it's
Speaker 1: not wounded. Were you're were you're shooting in the head,
Speaker 1: shooting it in the head.
Speaker 4: I have had situations like that before. It's extremely close,
Speaker 4: you know, you just for what a reason? Again, mostly
Speaker 4: in that montane forest, one kind of stands up and
Speaker 4: all you can see is the head kind of above
Speaker 4: the vegetation, and it's like, yeah, you know, you're gonna
Speaker 4: have to go for a headshot here. If you can
Speaker 4: do it, if you feel comfortable, go for it. And again,
Speaker 4: if you get it right, it's gonna have an instant result.
Speaker 4: Otherwise I'm gonna have to back you up.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't realize is standard And this doesn't
Speaker 1: bother me, but it's standard that when you wound an animal,
Speaker 1: that's that's it, that's your like effectively, you tag the
Speaker 1: animal if you want to get away. And there are
Speaker 1: units in there's a bear unit Alaska for instance, like
Speaker 1: if you touch it, right, if you touch the bear
Speaker 1: and don't find it, it's still regarded as that was
Speaker 1: your tag. And and after like that's absolutely you take
Speaker 1: a bad shot or get a bad hit, that's your
Speaker 1: You scratched your.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that's it. That one's off your license
Speaker 4: and we write it down as wounded lost. Very sad,
Speaker 4: sad thing to have to do, so a lot of
Speaker 4: a lot of things, yeah, is to mitigate that. Be cautious, man,
Speaker 4: Be cautious. Yeah, if the shot doesn't if it doesn't
Speaker 4: feel right. And again, the beautiful thing about Africa and
Speaker 4: especially where we're going, you know these premium areas like
Speaker 4: in Tanzania, it's not like you like, oh that was
Speaker 4: your buffalo. You know, we saw one for the for
Speaker 4: the two week trip and you you fluffed it. It's like, no,
Speaker 4: we'll get another chance. This one runs off, We'll find
Speaker 4: another one. There's more, there's plenty.
Speaker 1: Do you guys use the term dagger boys? Can you
Speaker 1: explain it to me?
Speaker 4: Yes, we do, we do use that term. Say it again,
Speaker 4: dug a boy dugger, so it's a boy. So the
Speaker 4: term dugger is it's a Southern African term. It's a
Speaker 4: it's a Southern African well, it's a bastardization of a
Speaker 4: of a word in one of the Southern African kind
Speaker 4: of Bantu languages, which it refers to mud and the
Speaker 4: reason boys and so the old bull buffalo that are
Speaker 4: in their kind of bachelor phase or then in a
Speaker 4: permanent bachelor phases sometimes is the case, will spend they
Speaker 4: like to wallow. They spend a good you know, cape
Speaker 4: buffalo or a wallowing animal. They enjoy it. They like
Speaker 4: to It helps them keep biting flies away, it keeps
Speaker 4: their skin healthy. So they they're wallowers. They love it.
Speaker 4: And oftentimes you'll see those old bulls will spend a
Speaker 4: good amount of time wallowing and they'll be really crusted
Speaker 4: with mud. God, So that's where that's the origin of
Speaker 4: the term. It's the mud boys. Yeah, it's one of
Speaker 4: those terms like safari, which like is very much a
Speaker 4: Swahili term. It's become kind of ubiquitous throughout the continent.
Speaker 4: Dug a boy will be used to describe an old
Speaker 4: bull buffalo kind of wherever you.
Speaker 1: Go and your plan, Like we talked about this before,
Speaker 1: but your plan is you guys don't get on the
Speaker 1: big or herds generally looking for like male little squads one, two, three, four, whatever,
Speaker 1: yea little bachelor.
Speaker 4: Gang, bachelor balls. Yeah, that's the ideal. I mean, we'll
Speaker 4: definitely we'll follow some herds and we'll get up on
Speaker 4: them for the experience of that, particularly early on in
Speaker 4: the hunt. And there are times where, particularly in Luganzo
Speaker 4: because it has it has a big river and a
Speaker 4: big lake. So what I find happens there more so
Speaker 4: than other areas I've seen, is that a lot of
Speaker 4: buffalo will kind of congregate there, bachelor balls and herds
Speaker 4: will kind of be gravitating towards the same areas to
Speaker 4: drink and kind of feed on that on that floodplain.
Speaker 4: Not together, but they're not together, but they're drawn to
Speaker 4: the same area and they'll kind of often like leave together,
Speaker 4: so they'll kind of mingle. So you know, I have
Speaker 4: found more, again, more consistently than other places I've hunted,
Speaker 4: in Luganzo, you'll find like a really old buffalo or
Speaker 4: a couple of really old buffaloes with a herd. But
Speaker 4: it's a sort of loose casual association and they'll break
Speaker 4: off of and sort of peel off eventually. So we'll
Speaker 4: spend some time mixing it up with herds for the experience.
Speaker 4: And again, like, part of what I like to do
Speaker 4: is give you that opportunity to really feel that species
Speaker 4: versus kind of just looking at the back of my
Speaker 4: shirt for however many days, and then I put the
Speaker 4: sticks up and say that's the one, Like, we'll really
Speaker 4: try to get in amongst them and sort of see
Speaker 4: how that, you know, just feel it, just enjoy their
Speaker 4: presence and kind of get a sense of the species.
Speaker 4: But yeah, the one I want to shoot, I'm almost
Speaker 4: guaranteeing will be in a bachelor herd.
Speaker 1: And how do you know a shooter one you see like,
Speaker 1: what do you see where you're like, that is a shooter.
Speaker 4: Hard boss. So the way the buffalo's horns grow, you've
Speaker 4: got obviously that kind of bone core with the horn,
Speaker 4: like the keratin sheath on the outside, and in a
Speaker 4: mature ball, it kind of grows from the outside in
Speaker 4: so on a young ball, and then you'll see this
Speaker 4: very clearly when you're looking at them through your binoculars,
Speaker 4: the kind of what we call the boss, which is
Speaker 4: where the horns kind of come together over the top
Speaker 4: of their head, over that kind of honeycombed bone that
Speaker 4: protects their brain. It'll be it'll be still sort of
Speaker 4: vascular and soft and pulpy, even like a little bit
Speaker 4: of hair growing out of it. On a young bull,
Speaker 4: a fully mature bull that will have completely hardened into horn,
Speaker 4: and there may be a strip of hair or a
Speaker 4: strip of kind of flesh, you know, skin, down through
Speaker 4: the middle of the horns. Not all of them fully
Speaker 4: meet in the middle. Some do, some don't. That's not
Speaker 4: a like a determining factor of age or anything like that.
Speaker 4: It's just like a genetic thing.
Speaker 1: Some do, some don't.
Speaker 4: But yeah, we want a fully mature, hard bossed bull
Speaker 4: that's that's worn down ideally some of its horn, and yeah,
Speaker 4: it is just that right one to take and tip depends.
Speaker 4: The best one I shot last year was forty two
Speaker 4: inches sort of from whitest point to whitest point. But
Speaker 4: I've seen I've seen them there. I was. I had
Speaker 4: a client last year that was a bow hunter and
Speaker 4: we didn't manage to get on this buffalo, but we
Speaker 4: we put a stalk on one that I would have
Speaker 4: conservatively put it like forty four.
Speaker 1: He's still around.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you know where we got it? A general
Speaker 4: idea vicinity here in this, Randall, we'll give it a crack.
Speaker 4: Sty Is this what's this doing for you?
Speaker 1: Randall?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: What's all it's doing for you?
Speaker 6: I mean I've always had the I've always been really
Speaker 6: curious about Africa. I think just for the sense of
Speaker 6: like wonder like you described, just like the smell and
Speaker 6: the soil and the plants and just seeing animals. But yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm getting I guess what it's doing for it's it's
Speaker 6: inspiring quite a bit of jealousy in me.
Speaker 4: And the reason it is. Yeah, yeah, reasonable position to take.
Speaker 1: So you're interested?
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, we almost. We're at the Tanna Wilde
Speaker 6: cheap banquet. We got a little we're overserved and almost
Speaker 6: went in on a safari with her with our friends.
Speaker 4: Where was it the.
Speaker 5: One in Bozeman? Oh, the safari?
Speaker 4: I have no idea.
Speaker 1: You were bit you were almost bidding on it. We
Speaker 1: did bid on it? What country?
Speaker 4: It doesn't know? That's not a good style.
Speaker 6: Well, well we The first text message I saw my
Speaker 6: phone the next morning was I'm glad we didn't wake
Speaker 6: up as the owners of a safari got it. Yeah,
Speaker 6: but it's it's always, it's always something that's kind of like,
Speaker 6: you know, you got a couple of little voices in
Speaker 6: the back of your head about things that you like
Speaker 6: to do someday and yeah, I definitely have the itch
Speaker 6: on it.
Speaker 2: Next time.
Speaker 4: Well, let's talk about send me the details, shoot me
Speaker 4: a text, give you the give you the inside scoop,
Speaker 4: whether it's going to be something new moregan.
Speaker 1: I hope you can reply quickly because I'm in the
Speaker 1: middle of.
Speaker 4: In the middle of.
Speaker 2: Is it worth it?
Speaker 1: That's want of the fact check a couple.
Speaker 4: Of things, set a couple of guardrails for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: No, I mean I think, like especially just the history
Speaker 6: and sort of the the place of African hunting within
Speaker 6: are larger hunting traditions like globally, I think it's it's
Speaker 6: something I'd definitely like to experience and understand better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm dying to go check it out. And like
Speaker 1: with me though, the thing is, of course you can
Speaker 1: just go check it out, but I need I need more.
Speaker 3: I need like like the.
Speaker 1: Immersive, like like the I need to get in there,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: The immersion is the thing. The totality of it, like
Speaker 4: the history, the the flora, the fauna, the culture, the people.
Speaker 4: That's what makes African hunting I think unique, aside from
Speaker 4: the species and the conduct of the whole hunt, right,
Speaker 4: all that's a separate thing. But if you just think
Speaker 4: about like the appeal of it, why it kind of
Speaker 4: it's people so much, it's just the Yeah, the totality
Speaker 4: of it, all that kind of history and culture.
Speaker 9: I think we will make it.
Speaker 8: Get to highlight the difference between the differences between hunting
Speaker 8: across certain countries in Africa, and that like the experience
Speaker 8: in Tanzania, I anticipate would be very will be very
Speaker 8: different than for example.
Speaker 1: Uh where, Yeah, in South Africa.
Speaker 4: Actually that's a fair yeah, for sure, I think so.
Speaker 4: I think East Africa has that that reputation, and certainly
Speaker 4: I don't want to take anything away from like there's
Speaker 4: some amazing hunting that happens in Southern Africa, Central Africa, French,
Speaker 4: you know, Francophone West Africa. There's some incredible hunting experiences
Speaker 4: that can be had kind of across the continent. But
Speaker 4: I think East Africa kind of holds a certain place
Speaker 4: in people's imaginations because of Yeah, because of that history,
Speaker 4: and because of the kind of like the way that
Speaker 4: it was the birthplace of a lot of the kind
Speaker 4: of conservation ideals and hunting ethics ideals and and sort of. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think this it's just what it's where your brain
Speaker 4: goes when you think of Safari.
Speaker 1: I got last question for you. But how are we doing?
Speaker 4: Phil?
Speaker 1: Phil's real worried about getting out of here.
Speaker 9: We got ten minutes. We're good.
Speaker 4: Okay, you got ten minutes to answer to this question.
Speaker 4: Lay it on me.
Speaker 1: Let's say I'm over in Europe and some guys like,
Speaker 1: I'm going deer hunting in America. I'm going No, not that,
Speaker 1: I'm going deer hunting in North America. First thing on
Speaker 1: my mind is, well, that could mean any number of things. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you hunting in South Florida?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Are you hunting in northern Alberta?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: How different are like? You know what I mean? You're
Speaker 1: going hunting and f Yeah, it's a big ass place,
Speaker 1: big ass place. How different is it all? Do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Very?
Speaker 4: Very does it is?
Speaker 1: What it seems different to someone there is? It would
Speaker 1: seemed to be from Florida to albert.
Speaker 4: If I would have that exact same reaction if I
Speaker 4: if I met someone here in an airport bar and
Speaker 4: they're like, I'm on the way to Africa to go
Speaker 4: on safari, you know, hunting safaria, I'd be like, where
Speaker 4: are you going and what you know? And i'd have
Speaker 4: something you've told me ideas yea, but yeah, you've precisely
Speaker 4: you told me nothing. I mean it just I think
Speaker 4: if I, if I kind of boil it down to
Speaker 4: like why Tanzania is different and where we're going is different,
Speaker 4: is what sort of sets us apart? Is that free range,
Speaker 4: those big vast areas. There's no fences that drew me
Speaker 4: a big, huge country expanse of it, you know, and
Speaker 4: Iget I think we talked about it. This is on
Speaker 4: the last podcast. Tanzania has got roughly thirty percent of
Speaker 4: its land mass set aside as wilderness of some sort.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Some of it's got some some you know, grazing and
Speaker 4: seasonal agricultural activities. Others other parts of it, like where
Speaker 4: we're going in Luganzo is just pure wilderness. But it's
Speaker 4: it's a it's a massive amount by by modern standards.
Speaker 4: It's a massive, massive amount of wilderness there, and to
Speaker 4: be able to hunt those species in an unfenced environment
Speaker 4: where they're not a reintroduced animal you know there, or
Speaker 4: or purely introduced animal there that's ancestral stock. That's as
Speaker 4: wild as they get. You know that book I was
Speaker 4: being slightly critical of, Yeah, Thunder without Ring. I was
Speaker 4: being a little too harsh on't it. Yeah, because you
Speaker 4: know what it did explain is one that cattle disease came,
Speaker 4: a render pest.
Speaker 1: Render past came and then jumped into the Cape Buffalon
Speaker 1: just decimated the calor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, crushed them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Early. He spends a lot of time on render past. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the famine that emerged from first the famine of people.
Speaker 4: That were herders the cattle got flattened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then also the famine that extended to other
Speaker 1: people that had been hunters and just wiped them out. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more than hunting. Oh yeah, renderpest massive for sure.
Speaker 4: Of all the things you know that set back game,
Speaker 4: it's I mean even I don't think render pest. I
Speaker 4: think renderpest is one of two diseases that humanity is
Speaker 4: successfully eliminated altogether, like completely, we're free of it. And
Speaker 4: so it's that in smallpox. Render pest, I think right
Speaker 4: up until the fifties was like an issue in East Africa.
Speaker 1: But it's a great name for a disease.
Speaker 4: It is, yeah from German, Yeah, cattle disease, and so
Speaker 4: it when it first came in, I think it's almost
Speaker 4: one hundred percent like fatal in you know, species that
Speaker 4: are naive as far as being inoculated to it. But
Speaker 4: over time obviously that you know, you gain natural immunity.
Speaker 4: And then there was efforts made by the veternary departments
Speaker 4: in what at those times were colonies to to kind
Speaker 4: of mitigate it. But yeah, it hammered the population of Buffalo.
Speaker 4: But what the also interesting thing that you can kind
Speaker 4: of glean from the renderpest epidemic is that those animals
Speaker 4: came back, you know, in vast numbers because the habitat
Speaker 4: was intact. And that's the that's the difference. You know,
Speaker 4: if you have these sort of massive wipeouts of species,
Speaker 4: it's something that's happened throughout you know, history as a
Speaker 4: result of climate or whatever. If the habitats intact, there's
Speaker 4: a there's an option. There's a possibility for them to
Speaker 4: come back as long as you've got some kind of
Speaker 4: genetic reservoir. But if you destroy the habitat, you're done.
Speaker 4: So as remarkable how robust and resilient these species are
Speaker 4: in the face of things like render pest.
Speaker 1: If the habitat's there. Here's my actual last question. What's
Speaker 1: a big group? What's a big group to run into? Oh,
Speaker 1: kate buffalo. It depends very much on the area. In Luganzo,
Speaker 1: I would say a big herd would be sixty to
Speaker 1: eighty just because of the terrain and kind of like
Speaker 1: and yeah, the environment, the lion population. But there are
Speaker 1: certain areas, like you know in Mozambique, even southern Tanzania.
Speaker 1: I've seen some really massive herds. But you know where
Speaker 1: you get like big sort of floodplain areas where there'll
Speaker 1: be hundreds and them out there. Now, well, we're not
Speaker 1: knocking around, are we going to run in the allons?
Speaker 4: Almost certainly, yeah, almost certainly. They're there all the time.
Speaker 1: Sickly, he'll be sick.
Speaker 7: I don't what's it like like grizzly bears here, We
Speaker 7: got to watch out for him if you run into them.
Speaker 4: Generally speaking, No, Sometimes they'll put on a little bit
Speaker 4: of a bit of a performance, but generally these ones,
Speaker 4: they'll they'll sort of slink off. You know, if they've
Speaker 4: got to kill nearby, they might be a little more
Speaker 4: reluctant to leave and they'll kind of like, you know,
Speaker 4: they'll posture a little bit, but you're you're very unlikely
Speaker 4: to have an issue with them. And just in that
Speaker 4: context of like bumping into them somewhere. What about snakes,
Speaker 4: I would be surprised. We may see them, but more
Speaker 4: more often than not, like I would say, in all
Speaker 4: my time in Africa, eighty five percent or more of
Speaker 4: the snakes I've seen have been like on the road
Speaker 4: sunning themselves. When and you sort of drive by and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, there's cobra.
Speaker 1: Do you guys got that one where you're supposed to
Speaker 1: just lean against a tree and die.
Speaker 4: Because yeah, yeah, yeah, black mumber, Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 4: You run into those often, yeah, not often, not often,
Speaker 4: it's uncommon, but.
Speaker 1: It's so bad. The best thing you can do is
Speaker 1: lean against the tree. You ain't gonna live.
Speaker 4: Yeah, true, with that, So it is so yes, and no,
Speaker 4: so they have I'll tell you just lean against the tree.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you two stories about black mumbers, which and
Speaker 4: we can kind of we can leave it at that,
Speaker 4: but it's uncommon to see them. And again usually it's
Speaker 4: that same thing. You'll see them from the car. They'll
Speaker 4: kind of be beside the road.
Speaker 1: And do you pass through them when you see.
Speaker 4: Them, No, we typically leave them alone. One time I
Speaker 4: was in the Salu. I was in southern Tanzania and
Speaker 4: I was were following Buffalo with a client and there
Speaker 4: was kind of little depression, like this little valley that
Speaker 4: had tall grass in it, you know, seven eight foot
Speaker 4: tall grass, and we, based on the freshness of the
Speaker 4: buffalo tracks that we were following, were kind of the
Speaker 4: trackers and I had a little conference and sort of
Speaker 4: determined that they likely weren't in that tall grass like
Speaker 4: they'd passed it wasn't that big of an area. They'd
Speaker 4: kind of passed through it and gone and beedded down
Speaker 4: somewhere in the meombo like in the woodland. So we
Speaker 4: were pretty confident in being able to just sort of
Speaker 4: pass through it. So we're pretty casually like going through
Speaker 4: this tall grass, sort of following these trails at the
Speaker 4: Buffalo and elephants and other stuff had made through there,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I'm just sort of fairly not totally asleep
Speaker 4: at the wheel, but sort of just you know, going along.
Speaker 4: And next thing, like the two trackers kind of they
Speaker 4: went around a little sort of corner and the grass
Speaker 4: in front of me to where I couldn't fully see them.
Speaker 4: Next thing, they both just sort of like evaporate, just
Speaker 4: like gone. They just like flew past me like not
Speaker 4: a word said, just like disappeared. And I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 4: the buffalo are in here. So I sort of pick
Speaker 4: up my rifle safety off. But normally with buffalo in
Speaker 4: that kind of context, like it'd be a cow with
Speaker 4: a calf or something, and you'd hear them like they're
Speaker 4: gonna they a lot of times, they'll vocalize, you'd hear
Speaker 4: them crashing around. It was like silent. A couple seconds later,
Speaker 4: this black mumber sort of reared up to like just
Speaker 4: below my eye level, kind of comes around the corner
Speaker 4: and the grass. Yeah, I mean this thing was thick.
Speaker 4: It was sort of probably like diameter, I don't know,
Speaker 4: like four or five inches, So it was like a
Speaker 4: thick snake, big snake. I couldn't see the full length
Speaker 4: of it. But it was really reared up. And they do.
Speaker 4: They really rear up, which is why they so deadly,
Speaker 4: because they'll strike you in areas that you can't put
Speaker 4: like a tornicuit, like you'll be So I just pulled
Speaker 4: my front trigger and I still can't tell you to
Speaker 4: this day whether I hit that thing or not, but
Speaker 4: I'm sure the muzzle blast from like that that distance
Speaker 4: rattled its cage and I just turned around, grabbed the client,
Speaker 4: just ran, just got out of there.
Speaker 1: Because they'll come out. Yeah, they will.
Speaker 4: I mean they do. What the guys said later was
Speaker 4: he was like just curled up on the trail and
Speaker 4: when they kind of like got up on him, like
Speaker 4: he sort of got agitated, right, like he felt like
Speaker 4: he was being accosted, and he sort of reared up
Speaker 4: and and sort of like sort of came towards them.
Speaker 4: And then he was probably just more or less curious
Speaker 4: as to what had happened and kind of came around
Speaker 4: that corner and got a face full of nitro express
Speaker 4: Let's see you man. But I also heard a story
Speaker 4: about it. I also heard a story about a young
Speaker 4: Massi boy that was bitten by one in mass island
Speaker 4: and there's this wonderful place not far from a RuSHA
Speaker 4: called Messerani Snake Park. Will actually drive by it where
Speaker 4: they have they have a bunch of snakes. Yeah, it
Speaker 4: sounds grid, but it's really cool. They have a bunch
Speaker 4: of snakes and they have a clinic where they extract
Speaker 4: venom and they do all the stuff there and they
Speaker 4: treat pretty much. They're the hub for all of northern
Speaker 4: Tanzania for like snake bite victims. And so the other
Speaker 4: kids that this this Massai boy was with recognized that
Speaker 4: he'd been bitten by a mamba. So they they kind
Speaker 4: of managed to get him to a road where they
Speaker 4: flagged down a guy on a motorbike and they got
Speaker 4: him on the motorbike and they all took off their
Speaker 4: belts and kind of belted him to the guy because
Speaker 4: they knew he was going to pass out. I mean,
Speaker 4: was a verger passing, and he passed out somewhere along
Speaker 4: the journey. They got him to Mazzarani, they gave him
Speaker 4: the like, they gave him the treatment, the anti venom,
Speaker 4: and apparently like a couple of days later it was fine,
Speaker 4: really happy as a clam. The only injury he had
Speaker 4: like like that was you know, kind of sucked. Was
Speaker 4: when he passed out, like one of his feet had
Speaker 4: kind of dragged along the black top like he's got
Speaker 4: a got serious road rash. But he was, he was fine.
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to say it's one hundred percent fatal,
Speaker 4: but yeah, if we're out there in Luganzo, we definitely
Speaker 4: want to avoid those things.
Speaker 1: But I'd be surprised. That's gonna have two huge belts
Speaker 1: on now, yeah, so we can just belt to steal
Speaker 1: to boots.
Speaker 5: Don't come home from this true.
Speaker 6: Well again, helps not gonna help you, just for the
Speaker 6: dragging your feet there, you go, well there.
Speaker 4: And the other thing about him that's kind of spooky
Speaker 4: is they'll they're like semi arboreal. They'll go up trees.
Speaker 4: So there are guys that have been bitten like from
Speaker 4: above right down the top of his head.
Speaker 1: Right through his little hat.
Speaker 3: That's not gonna have a good time.
Speaker 4: No, we won't. I'd be surprised if we see one.
Speaker 4: If we do, it'll be cool because we'll be from
Speaker 4: the car and we can all go and not have
Speaker 4: to worry about getting pokem sure, catch it.
Speaker 1: Worry all right.
Speaker 8: Before we are going to We just got to say
Speaker 8: that your dream will come true because we will have
Speaker 8: a handful of bonus episodes dropping just a couple of
Speaker 8: We'll have a lot of wwops.
Speaker 4: F W A P.
Speaker 7: Three.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we'll have a bunch of wwops while we're in
Speaker 8: country turned around, you know, within a matter of days. Uh.
Speaker 2: Podcast video Stevie.
Speaker 1: Stevie Hemingway calesay.
Speaker 8: Thursdays for a few weeks, so you can stay tuned
Speaker 8: for those.
Speaker 1: I can't wait, I can't wait.
Speaker 5: You're there now.
Speaker 1: Now I'm getting excited, man, I want seeing them snakes.
Speaker 4: Thanks coming out man, absolutely, Thanks for having me being
Speaker 4: in the bush with you. We're gonna have a hell
Speaker 4: of a time. No, I think it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on your hunt.
Speaker 4: Thanks sir, Phil.
Speaker 1: We're getting out of your hair.
Speaker 9: Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1: We're only seven minutes overdue. My boy's calling me. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I can't tell this. I got a funny story about
Speaker 1: my kid. I'll tell later. Nothing to do with our
Speaker 1: subject matter, all right, guys, Thank you