WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Carol Morgan 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:51.961 School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.361 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 0:00:55.401 --> 0:00:58.761 witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.961 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:03.001 --> 0:01:06.160 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.961 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.041 --> 0:01:14.000 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.160 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.961 --> 0:01:20.840 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.041 --> 0:01:23.601 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.121 --> 0:01:27.121 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:29.681 --> 0:01:33.041 It was around seven pm on August thirteenth, nineteen eighty one, 0:01:33.681 --> 0:01:36.361 and thirty six year old Carol Morgan was working the 0:01:36.401 --> 0:01:40.401 till at her corner shop at sixteen Finch Crescent in 0:01:40.441 --> 0:01:45.121 a town called Leyton Buzzard in the County of Bedfordshire, England. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:46.840 This was a close knit community. 0:01:47.401 --> 0:01:50.281 Carol owned and ran the shop with her husband, thirty 0:01:50.321 --> 0:01:55.040 one year old Alan Morgan, and everybody knew them. Everyone 0:01:55.121 --> 0:01:57.960 in town knew and loved Carol, who was described by 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.721 friends and family as warm, caring, genuine and friendly. Carol 0:02:02.841 --> 0:02:04.961 loved the shop and the other lights of her life 0:02:05.001 --> 0:02:08.201 were her two children from a previous marriage, fourteen year 0:02:08.201 --> 0:02:11.321 old Dean and twelve year old Jane. On that night, 0:02:11.561 --> 0:02:14.081 Carol was working at the shop alone. She was getting 0:02:14.121 --> 0:02:18.041 ready for closing, which was at six pm. Her husband, Allan, 0:02:18.161 --> 0:02:20.001 was at the movie theater in Lwton with his two 0:02:20.041 --> 0:02:24.361 step children, Dean and Jane, but at some point someone 0:02:24.481 --> 0:02:28.800 surprised Carol. Alan and the children got home at around 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.681 ten ten pm. Shortly after arriving at the house, Carroll's husband, 0:02:33.721 --> 0:02:36.241 Alan raced to a neighbor's house and asked him to 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.081 come to the shop. The neighbor followed Alan into the 0:02:39.121 --> 0:02:43.361 storeroom and saw Carol in a pool of blood. Her 0:02:43.401 --> 0:02:47.521 body was found in the storeroom of the store. Forensic 0:02:47.561 --> 0:02:51.081 testing revealed that Carol had been brutally beaten and stabbed 0:02:51.081 --> 0:02:54.081 with a weapon, something like an axe or a machete, 0:02:54.521 --> 0:02:58.561 something heavy but very sharp. She had been hit so 0:02:58.761 --> 0:03:02.001 hard that pieces of her skull and brain matter were 0:03:02.041 --> 0:03:05.561 on the floor. The police had no way of knowing 0:03:05.601 --> 0:03:08.840 it back in nineteen eighty one, but this police investigation 0:03:08.881 --> 0:03:12.361 would last forty three years and take a lot of 0:03:12.401 --> 0:03:17.441 strange twists and turns, and in the end there was justice, 0:03:17.481 --> 0:03:21.281 but it's questionable whether full justice will ever be served. 0:03:22.161 --> 0:03:25.240 Who came into the store that night and hacked Carol 0:03:25.321 --> 0:03:31.081 Morgan to death. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven 0:03:31.161 --> 0:03:34.441 years of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I've 0:03:34.561 --> 0:03:36.721 learned that there is no such thing as a small 0:03:36.801 --> 0:03:40.881 town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds of messages 0:03:40.921 --> 0:03:43.561 from people all around the country asking for help with 0:03:43.601 --> 0:03:47.561 a unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. 0:03:48.081 --> 0:03:49.841 If you have a case you'd like me and my 0:03:49.881 --> 0:03:52.201 team to look into, you can reach out to us 0:03:52.281 --> 0:03:54.841 at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 0:03:55.161 --> 0:03:58.641 seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 0:03:58.681 --> 0:04:02.321 eight seven four four six one four five, or you 0:04:02.361 --> 0:04:05.801 can send us a message on Instagram at Helen gonepod. 0:04:06.521 --> 0:04:53.400 This is Helen Gone Murder Line. After police got to 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.721 the scene, they found evidence that some money four hundred 0:04:56.721 --> 0:04:59.241 and thirty five pounds to be exact, had been stolen, 0:04:59.841 --> 0:05:04.161 along with fourteen hundred cigarettes, but police did not have 0:05:04.281 --> 0:05:07.081 a ton of information to go on. The attack had 0:05:07.081 --> 0:05:11.281 been extremely brutal and horrific and there were some signs 0:05:11.321 --> 0:05:14.601 of defensive wounds on Carol's hands, so it seemed like 0:05:14.641 --> 0:05:18.801 whatever happened had taken her completely by surprise and that 0:05:18.881 --> 0:05:23.320 she had fought for her life. The UK channel ITV 0:05:23.921 --> 0:05:26.841 made a documentary about the case called The Real Unforgotten. 0:05:27.361 --> 0:05:31.481 This documentary followed the decades long investigation into Carroll's murder. 0:05:32.321 --> 0:05:35.841 I highly recommend checking it out because it really is 0:05:35.881 --> 0:05:39.681 an excellent analysis of what the police did and the 0:05:39.761 --> 0:05:44.521 excellent detective work that was done years later. In the documentary, 0:05:44.881 --> 0:05:47.401 they explained that the police back in nineteen eighty one 0:05:47.801 --> 0:05:50.921 believed that the motive for the killing had been robbery, 0:05:50.961 --> 0:05:55.081 and they focused on that theory pretty much exclusively. On 0:05:55.121 --> 0:05:59.361 the ITV program, they showed images of diagrams of Carol's injuries. 0:05:59.961 --> 0:06:02.521 She had been beaten to death and she had huge 0:06:02.521 --> 0:06:05.841 cuts on her head. Whoever beat her beat her so 0:06:06.001 --> 0:06:09.601 badly that her skull was cracked. So police theorized the 0:06:09.641 --> 0:06:12.201 weapon had been something like an axe or a machete, 0:06:12.481 --> 0:06:15.841 but they never found the murder weapon. They did have 0:06:15.881 --> 0:06:18.880 one early lead. There was a man driving a green 0:06:19.001 --> 0:06:21.961 car who had been spotted at a payphone box near 0:06:22.001 --> 0:06:26.321 the shop shortly after seven pm. On the ITV documentary, 0:06:26.601 --> 0:06:30.081 they stated when police started canvassing the area, they found 0:06:30.161 --> 0:06:33.681 witnesses who saw this man at the phone box. One 0:06:33.721 --> 0:06:36.561 of the witnesses worked with a police sketch artist. They 0:06:36.641 --> 0:06:40.361 made a poster and they put them out everywhere. In 0:06:40.401 --> 0:06:44.241 the documentary, they showed old footage of Brian Picket, the 0:06:44.321 --> 0:06:47.921 senior investigating officer from nineteen eighty one. He was talking 0:06:47.961 --> 0:06:50.880 about this stranger. He said the man was seen driving 0:06:50.921 --> 0:06:53.681 away from the corner shop and was described as being 0:06:53.721 --> 0:06:57.281 aged between seventeen and twenty one years old, around five 0:06:57.281 --> 0:06:59.361 foot seven to five foot eight inches tall, with a 0:06:59.401 --> 0:07:04.960 slim belld brown mousey hair and piggish style nostrils. Brian 0:07:05.001 --> 0:07:08.121 Pickett stated that the witness saw this man holding white 0:07:08.241 --> 0:07:12.001 plastic bags to his chest, bags that police believed at 0:07:12.041 --> 0:07:14.561 the time were used to carry the stolen money and 0:07:14.601 --> 0:07:18.241 cigarettes from the corner shop. So police believed the killer 0:07:18.281 --> 0:07:20.521 had come in to rob the store and that Carol 0:07:20.801 --> 0:07:23.681 was basically just at the wrong place at the wrong time. 0:07:24.761 --> 0:07:28.481 Police focused their investigation almost solely on that stranger at 0:07:28.521 --> 0:07:31.001 the phone box and the green car he was driving, 0:07:31.481 --> 0:07:33.601 but they never found the man and they never found 0:07:33.641 --> 0:07:37.601 the car. After that, the investigation seemed to hit a 0:07:37.601 --> 0:07:42.281 dead end. This case terrified the local community because the 0:07:42.321 --> 0:07:45.361 thought that someone could go in and murder someone with 0:07:45.441 --> 0:07:47.561 an axe over such a small amount of money and 0:07:47.601 --> 0:07:49.841 a few cigarettes was truly scary. 0:07:50.801 --> 0:07:53.081 But there were also some local rumors spreading. 0:07:53.601 --> 0:07:56.721 Witnesses spoke to police to voice their suspicions about someone 0:07:56.881 --> 0:08:01.881 much closer to home, Carol's husband, Alan Morgan. So what 0:08:02.121 --> 0:08:05.441 was going on in Carol and Allen's marriage and why 0:08:05.441 --> 0:08:06.321 would he have any. 0:08:06.161 --> 0:08:07.121 Reason to hurt her? 0:08:08.681 --> 0:08:11.961 Carol Morgan was born on December twenty sixth, nineteen forty four. 0:08:12.441 --> 0:08:16.001 She grew up in Highbury, North London. Carol was married 0:08:16.041 --> 0:08:16.681 before Alan. 0:08:17.321 --> 0:08:17.961 She met her. 0:08:17.921 --> 0:08:20.601 Husband when he was sixteen, she was a year older. 0:08:21.241 --> 0:08:23.681 Her husband later testified that they met while he was 0:08:23.721 --> 0:08:27.801 on vacation with a friend. Carol and Richard, her first husband, 0:08:27.801 --> 0:08:31.161 were both from London. He was from Wimbledon in West London. 0:08:31.481 --> 0:08:34.960 She was from North London, so the relationship continued after 0:08:35.001 --> 0:08:38.481 that holiday ended. They got married in nineteen sixty five 0:08:38.521 --> 0:08:41.441 and they settled down together in Swindon. They had two children, 0:08:41.601 --> 0:08:44.761 Jane and Ian, but like a lot of couples, they 0:08:44.841 --> 0:08:49.200 drifted apart and started having problems in their relationship. Richard 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.280 later testified in court that he met someone else and 0:08:52.321 --> 0:08:55.681 that that was kind of the final straw for their marriage. 0:08:55.721 --> 0:08:59.121 He testified he left Carol to be with this other person, 0:08:59.601 --> 0:09:03.560 but after the split, he said he and Carol remained close. 0:09:04.121 --> 0:09:07.241 He said, quote, Carol was upset I was leaving, but 0:09:07.321 --> 0:09:11.761 there was no animosity end quote. In nineteen seventy eight, 0:09:11.881 --> 0:09:14.201 Carol was trying to meet new people. She went to 0:09:14.241 --> 0:09:17.121 a singles group called the Gingerbread Group, and that's where 0:09:17.121 --> 0:09:20.401 she met Allan. Allan was also divorced and had two 0:09:20.441 --> 0:09:23.681 children from a previous marriage, but those children lived with 0:09:23.681 --> 0:09:27.201 his ex partner. Shortly after meeting and falling in love, 0:09:27.841 --> 0:09:30.401 Carol and Allan made plans to buy and run this 0:09:30.521 --> 0:09:34.721 corner shop together. Carol financed the shop. They were able 0:09:34.761 --> 0:09:36.841 to buy it because Carol had sold her house in 0:09:36.841 --> 0:09:39.321 her divorce, so they used the share of the house 0:09:39.361 --> 0:09:43.481 money to invest in the shop. Carol and Allan got 0:09:43.561 --> 0:09:47.561 me married in nineteen seventy nine. It's interesting because you 0:09:47.721 --> 0:09:51.800 never know what's going on behind closed doors in these relationships. 0:09:52.161 --> 0:09:55.280 But years later, some members of Carroll's family, including her 0:09:55.321 --> 0:09:58.641 sister and her niece, talked to the ITV program about 0:09:58.641 --> 0:10:03.281 how these horrific events had changed their family forever. They 0:10:03.361 --> 0:10:06.601 said that after Carol met Allan, she went from being 0:10:06.601 --> 0:10:10.401 this outgoing and loving person to being pretty much completely isolated. 0:10:11.361 --> 0:10:14.521 Her niece told ITV she believed that Alan was trying 0:10:14.521 --> 0:10:18.081 to control Carol and manipulate her, but at the time 0:10:18.481 --> 0:10:21.081 they had no idea how bad things were getting at 0:10:21.081 --> 0:10:24.800 home behind closed doors. Local gossips said there might have 0:10:24.841 --> 0:10:28.041 been another reason why Alan wanted Carol out of the way, 0:10:28.641 --> 0:10:31.641 because Alan was having an affair with a woman named 0:10:31.641 --> 0:10:35.641 Margaret Spooner, who was also married, But when it came 0:10:35.681 --> 0:10:39.961 to Carroll's murder, Alan had this apparently airtight albi. The 0:10:40.081 --> 0:10:42.081 night of the murder, he was at the movies with 0:10:42.161 --> 0:10:46.681 his two step children. Carol's sun Dean told police that 0:10:46.761 --> 0:10:49.201 on the day of the murder that Alan came home 0:10:49.241 --> 0:10:51.561 shortly after lunch and told them they were going to 0:10:51.601 --> 0:10:54.961 the movies that night, so he, Jane, and Allan ended 0:10:55.001 --> 0:10:56.961 up driving to the town of Lowton to see a 0:10:56.961 --> 0:11:00.521 double feature. Jane told police that they got to the 0:11:00.521 --> 0:11:03.601 theater got their tickets at six twenty five pm and 0:11:03.641 --> 0:11:05.921 that they saw Sinbad, the Eye of the Tiger and 0:11:05.961 --> 0:11:11.041 Super Snooper and came out at ten ten pm. Police 0:11:11.121 --> 0:11:14.121 were trying to figure out what happened while Carol was 0:11:14.161 --> 0:11:15.081 working alone that night. 0:11:15.641 --> 0:11:17.481 They knew that the shop closed at six. 0:11:17.321 --> 0:11:21.680 Pm, but apparently some potential customers, according to the ITV show, 0:11:22.241 --> 0:11:24.641 tried the doors at five pin fifty five pm and 0:11:24.681 --> 0:11:27.841 couldn't open them, so it seems as though Carol might 0:11:27.881 --> 0:11:31.521 have shut the shop a little bit early. The detectives 0:11:31.561 --> 0:11:34.321 went back and re examined everything they thought they knew 0:11:34.361 --> 0:11:37.201 about this case. First of all, they needed to look 0:11:37.241 --> 0:11:40.081 into the man with the white bags, the one who 0:11:40.121 --> 0:11:42.921 was seen near the phone box. They went back through 0:11:43.001 --> 0:11:45.601 old witness days and found that a witness saw the 0:11:45.641 --> 0:11:48.081 man drop the bags, pick up some coins, get into 0:11:48.121 --> 0:11:51.040 the car and drive away. Then there were two more 0:11:51.081 --> 0:11:54.801 witnesses at around seven ten pm, two women who were 0:11:54.841 --> 0:11:57.481 walking to Bingo saw that man in the green car. 0:11:58.161 --> 0:12:01.441 Presumably that would mean that if that man was the killer, 0:12:02.121 --> 0:12:04.601 the man murdered Carol and what they saw was him 0:12:04.681 --> 0:12:05.521 driving away. 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:06.560 From the scene. 0:12:06.681 --> 0:12:09.841 But there were some other witnesses who had conflicting information. 0:12:10.441 --> 0:12:14.201 There were witnesses who said they saw Carol. Later after closing, 0:12:14.961 --> 0:12:17.721 two kids who knew Carol well were sitting on a 0:12:17.721 --> 0:12:21.401 wall talking They saw Carol walking back toward the shop 0:12:21.561 --> 0:12:24.841 with her dog. They said this happened between eight thirty 0:12:24.881 --> 0:12:28.280 and nine pm. So the officer interviewed in the ITV 0:12:28.401 --> 0:12:32.321 documentary pointed out if Carol was alive between eight thirty 0:12:32.361 --> 0:12:35.800 and nine pm, that appeared to point to the man 0:12:35.881 --> 0:12:42.761 in the green car not being the killer. In twenty eighteen, 0:12:43.161 --> 0:12:46.441 Detective Superintendent Carl Foster was put in charge of the 0:12:46.441 --> 0:12:49.681 cold case. Based on what he saw in that case file, 0:12:49.961 --> 0:12:51.801 he decided to reopen the investigation. 0:12:52.681 --> 0:12:53.721 He was convinced that. 0:12:53.641 --> 0:12:56.441 Even if Allen had an alibi and had been elsewhere, 0:12:56.761 --> 0:12:59.761 the evidence suggested that he may have been behind the killing. 0:13:01.041 --> 0:13:04.560 The Major Crime Unit reopened the investigation into Carol's murder 0:13:04.601 --> 0:13:07.881 in twenty nineteen, but they had a lot of problems. 0:13:08.321 --> 0:13:10.561 For one thing, as we see in so many of 0:13:10.601 --> 0:13:14.321 our cases, mistakes were made, a lot of evidence was 0:13:14.321 --> 0:13:17.401 destroyed and there was no way to get it back. 0:13:19.201 --> 0:13:22.041 Police had very little to go on except for witness 0:13:22.081 --> 0:13:25.680 statements and some very old photos of the crime scene. 0:13:25.881 --> 0:13:27.921 One of the reasons why I wanted to cover this 0:13:28.001 --> 0:13:31.401 case in particular is because I was so inspired by the. 0:13:31.361 --> 0:13:34.401 Work that these cold case detectives did. How they took 0:13:34.401 --> 0:13:35.121 a case like. 0:13:35.161 --> 0:13:37.241 So many of the ones that we see every day, 0:13:37.561 --> 0:13:41.321 where evidence was destroyed, and yet they managed to turn 0:13:41.401 --> 0:13:44.281 things around. I wanted to see what we could all 0:13:44.361 --> 0:13:48.121 learn from this case. The detectives taking over in twenty 0:13:48.321 --> 0:13:52.081 nineteen did not believe that robbery was the motive. One 0:13:52.081 --> 0:13:55.001 of the reasons they said they believed that was because 0:13:55.041 --> 0:13:58.841 of the brutal way that Carroll was killed. Police referred 0:13:58.841 --> 0:14:02.361 to that beating as overkill. They believe this was personal, 0:14:02.641 --> 0:14:06.481 not random. There were some other oddities. Most of the 0:14:06.521 --> 0:14:08.920 money that had been stolen was stolen from a desk 0:14:09.121 --> 0:14:12.721 drawer in the shop. This drawer had what Alan described 0:14:12.761 --> 0:14:14.881 to police as a secret mechanism. 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:16.641 It was like a trick drawer. 0:14:16.681 --> 0:14:19.321 You had to move another drawer into position to get 0:14:19.321 --> 0:14:21.881 it to work. Alan told the police it was like 0:14:21.921 --> 0:14:25.121 a Chinese puzzle. He said, only he and maybe Carol 0:14:25.401 --> 0:14:28.801 knew how that drawer worked. So how would a robber 0:14:28.841 --> 0:14:31.081 have known how to open that drawer or to force 0:14:31.121 --> 0:14:33.521 Carol to open it? How would the robber have even 0:14:33.641 --> 0:14:37.521 known where the drawer was at all. Much later in court, 0:14:38.001 --> 0:14:41.241 a prosecutor would state that the killer had inside information 0:14:41.681 --> 0:14:45.001 before the killer came into the shop. And one of 0:14:45.081 --> 0:14:48.401 the detectives in the ITV documentary noticed something else from 0:14:48.401 --> 0:14:52.001 the photos, a flash of gold. Carol was wearing her 0:14:52.001 --> 0:14:55.841 wedding ring, So the detective wondered, if robbery was really 0:14:55.881 --> 0:14:59.001 the only motive, why was her wedding ring not pulled 0:14:59.041 --> 0:14:59.721 off and stolen. 0:15:00.801 --> 0:15:02.761 Police began to lean more. 0:15:02.561 --> 0:15:05.121 And more into the theory this had not been a robbery, 0:15:05.161 --> 0:15:07.681 this had been a staged robbery, and that the real 0:15:07.801 --> 0:15:12.121 primary motive here was to kill Carol. The police had 0:15:12.161 --> 0:15:15.401 a massive number of witness statements to go through, thousands 0:15:15.401 --> 0:15:18.721 of pages, but as one of the investigators pointed out, 0:15:19.161 --> 0:15:22.001 they had to go back to the beginning and reread everything. 0:15:23.241 --> 0:15:26.001 One of the first people they talked to was Allan's neighbor. 0:15:26.601 --> 0:15:29.601 He was the first person who Allan told about finding 0:15:29.641 --> 0:15:33.321 Carroll's body, the one who first saw Carroll's body along 0:15:33.361 --> 0:15:37.441 with Alan. The neighbor told police that Alan ran across 0:15:37.481 --> 0:15:39.881 the street to his place and asked him to use 0:15:39.881 --> 0:15:42.241 the phone. He said Alan seemed to be in shock 0:15:42.601 --> 0:15:45.561 that he heard Allan tell police his address and explained 0:15:45.561 --> 0:15:47.921 that his wife was in a pool of blood. The 0:15:48.001 --> 0:15:50.321 neighbor went with Alan back to the shop and down 0:15:50.321 --> 0:15:54.081 to the stock room and found Carroll there. He said 0:15:54.121 --> 0:15:57.321 blood was spattered everywhere and it was immediately obvious that 0:15:57.401 --> 0:16:00.521 she was dead. The neighbor said he ran out of 0:16:00.561 --> 0:16:03.601 there and that Alan followed him. He said Alan was crying, 0:16:04.161 --> 0:16:06.881 but that as the neighbor tried to comfort him, the 0:16:06.961 --> 0:16:08.761 neighbor told police. 0:16:08.361 --> 0:16:10.681 He noticed Alan seemed very composed. 0:16:12.081 --> 0:16:14.841 Now, the detectives in the ITV series point out this 0:16:14.881 --> 0:16:16.281 could have been a natural reaction. 0:16:16.681 --> 0:16:18.641 People process things in different. 0:16:18.321 --> 0:16:22.241 Ways, but the detective did ask why did Alan walk 0:16:22.281 --> 0:16:25.441 across the street to use someone else's phone instead of 0:16:25.521 --> 0:16:29.081 just calling from the store. This officer stated it made 0:16:29.161 --> 0:16:32.561 him believe Alan had a reason for doing that, something 0:16:32.561 --> 0:16:35.321 that indicated maybe he didn't want to be the one 0:16:35.361 --> 0:16:39.201 to discover that body alone. Another piece of evidence that 0:16:39.281 --> 0:16:42.281 detectives had was the post mortem report that was made 0:16:42.281 --> 0:16:45.321 in nineteen eighty one. So they took that report and 0:16:45.401 --> 0:16:50.001 went to outside experts, including a forensic pathologist. The pathologist 0:16:50.081 --> 0:16:53.761 said Carol was killed by multiple blunt forest blows by 0:16:53.841 --> 0:16:57.481 a very heavy object that was also sharp, heavy enough 0:16:57.481 --> 0:17:01.321 to shatter the skull, but also sharp enough to slice. 0:17:01.361 --> 0:17:04.641 The pathologist agreed with the investigator's theory that the wounds 0:17:04.681 --> 0:17:08.840 were indicative of overkill, that the intention was to kill Carol. 0:17:09.321 --> 0:17:12.880 This was a hit and Carol was the target. The 0:17:12.921 --> 0:17:16.480 pathologist also said something else. There were stab wounds on 0:17:16.521 --> 0:17:20.481 Carol's midsection that made them believe one of two things happened. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.761 Either there was more than one killer, or maybe the 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:30.161 killer changed weapons midway through the attack. The pathologist also 0:17:30.241 --> 0:17:33.321 stated that Carol had wounds on her face, wounds that 0:17:33.360 --> 0:17:37.120 the pathologists said happened after the initial attack, either around 0:17:37.120 --> 0:17:39.160 the time of death or after the time of death. 0:17:39.721 --> 0:17:44.241 They described these as disrespect to the individual and mutilation injuries. 0:17:45.241 --> 0:17:48.561 So police used that information to move more and more 0:17:48.601 --> 0:17:52.161 away from the original theory. This was personal, it was 0:17:52.201 --> 0:17:55.761 all about Carol, and the crime scene was staged. But 0:17:55.881 --> 0:17:58.321 who would have wanted to hurt Carol because everyone in 0:17:58.361 --> 0:18:02.321 the community seemed to love Carol. When police went back 0:18:02.361 --> 0:18:05.080 through the witness statements, they found that a lot of 0:18:05.121 --> 0:18:10.361 people were talking about Alan, and specifically Alan's behavior before. 0:18:10.241 --> 0:18:11.360 And after the murder. 0:18:15.401 --> 0:18:18.641 A few weeks after Carroll's death, Alan sold the shot. 0:18:18.961 --> 0:18:21.561 He took his step kids and moved away from the area, 0:18:22.481 --> 0:18:26.881 but he also made several comments to reporters. He told 0:18:26.921 --> 0:18:29.920 them he was being accused of killing Carroll, that people 0:18:29.961 --> 0:18:32.201 believed he had killed his wife, but he said it 0:18:32.241 --> 0:18:34.521 couldn't have been him because he was in Luton at 0:18:34.521 --> 0:18:37.961 the movies. When the reporter asked Alan why he thought 0:18:38.041 --> 0:18:41.241 people believed that, Alan said, in his opinion, it could 0:18:41.321 --> 0:18:44.681 be because he was, in his words, happy go lucky 0:18:44.921 --> 0:18:49.001 and a womanizer. And when Alan left town, he didn't 0:18:49.041 --> 0:18:59.721 just take his stepchildren. Margaret, his lover, also went with him. 0:19:01.201 --> 0:19:03.961 Police knew about Margaret and the affair back in nineteen 0:19:04.001 --> 0:19:07.640 eighty one, a few months after Carol's murder, Margaret's husband, 0:19:07.641 --> 0:19:09.681 Neil Spooner, called police. 0:19:09.761 --> 0:19:10.921 He said that his wife. 0:19:10.761 --> 0:19:13.281 Had confessed to him that she had been having an affair, 0:19:13.321 --> 0:19:15.440 and she said she had been having an affair with 0:19:15.561 --> 0:19:19.801 Alan Morgan. Police confirmed this with other witnesses, including a 0:19:19.801 --> 0:19:23.521 friend of Margaret's named Sheila Forest. Sheila told police she 0:19:23.641 --> 0:19:26.160 was on a barge trip with Margaret. She said Margaret 0:19:26.241 --> 0:19:30.080 kept sneaking away to meet Alan. Sheila said Margaret and 0:19:30.121 --> 0:19:32.881 Alan were seeing each other every day at the time 0:19:32.881 --> 0:19:33.400 of the murder. 0:19:34.041 --> 0:19:34.561 She said. 0:19:34.681 --> 0:19:38.241 Right after the murder, she saw Alan and Margaret together. 0:19:38.761 --> 0:19:41.080 She said they were holding hands and Alan made the 0:19:41.161 --> 0:19:44.881 comment it won't be long now, Darling, which Sheila said 0:19:44.881 --> 0:19:49.841 made her feel sick. Police said in the ITV documentary 0:19:50.161 --> 0:19:52.880 that they had evidence that Margaret and Alan were in 0:19:52.961 --> 0:19:56.561 bed together the morning after the murder, and then just 0:19:56.601 --> 0:19:59.201 a few weeks later, Margaret had left her husband she 0:19:59.361 --> 0:20:02.880 moved in with Alan and his children. Now, obviously this 0:20:03.041 --> 0:20:06.681 is all circumstantial, but it had police in nineteen eighty 0:20:06.681 --> 0:20:10.561 one and in twenty nineteen wondering how much. 0:20:10.401 --> 0:20:13.241 Did Margaret Spooner know and when did she know it. 0:20:16.241 --> 0:20:19.441 In twenty nineteen, police went back to interview people in 0:20:19.481 --> 0:20:22.080 the community, and even though it had been over forty years, 0:20:22.761 --> 0:20:25.121 a lot of people who lived in this area had 0:20:25.161 --> 0:20:28.521 heard about this case. The murder had been so brutal 0:20:28.761 --> 0:20:33.001 people still talked about it. Forty years later. Carl Foster, 0:20:33.201 --> 0:20:36.561 the senior investigating officer, did something else that was interesting. 0:20:37.121 --> 0:20:39.120 He went back and looked at all of the media 0:20:39.201 --> 0:20:42.841 reports from that time and kind of used Allan's own 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.201 words against him. Police looked back at these interviews that 0:20:46.241 --> 0:20:49.001 Alan gave to media, and they saw how he contradicted himself. 0:20:49.321 --> 0:20:52.281 For example, when he went to Malta with Margaret and 0:20:52.401 --> 0:20:54.561 was asked about going away with his lovers so soon 0:20:54.601 --> 0:20:58.241 after his wife's death, he made comments saying my marriage 0:20:58.281 --> 0:21:00.400 was as good as over and that he couldn't go 0:21:00.481 --> 0:21:04.041 on mourning forever. A news channel asked Alan in nineteen 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.360 eighty two how the murder had affected him, and he 0:21:07.481 --> 0:21:10.721 gave this very cold answer. He talked about how he 0:21:10.761 --> 0:21:12.721 had to shut down the shop for weeks so the 0:21:12.761 --> 0:21:16.001 police could do their investigation. He talked about how this 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.080 had ruined his business, how he had to sell the 0:21:18.121 --> 0:21:20.801 shop at a loss. But he said nothing in that 0:21:20.921 --> 0:21:24.801 interview that I saw about any grief for Carol or 0:21:24.881 --> 0:21:28.600 the two children who she left behind. In fact, he 0:21:28.761 --> 0:21:31.640 said the kids are all right, but he said it 0:21:31.641 --> 0:21:33.801 would be better for the kids if he moved away. 0:21:34.961 --> 0:21:38.761 So Alan seemed to be blaming the police investigation for 0:21:38.921 --> 0:21:42.961 ruining the shop's business, But investigators found evidence that Alan 0:21:43.041 --> 0:21:47.481 and Carol's show was having problems before she was brutally murdered. 0:21:48.361 --> 0:21:51.841 Police in nineteen eighty one interviewed two accountants, who said 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.521 the shop had been losing a lot of money and 0:21:54.601 --> 0:21:56.761 that actually, at the time of the murder, Allan and 0:21:56.801 --> 0:22:00.001 Carol were trying to sell the shop. The accountant said 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.521 when he talked to Carol about the losses, Carrol started 0:22:03.521 --> 0:22:06.401 crying and said that they were unhappy that they had 0:22:06.401 --> 0:22:11.400 had big dreams for that shop. Police found another contradiction 0:22:11.921 --> 0:22:14.321 because while Allan had given an interview to the Observer 0:22:14.481 --> 0:22:18.321 newspaper stating that quote my wife wasn't insured, I had 0:22:18.361 --> 0:22:21.641 nothing to gain end quote, police said that wasn't true 0:22:21.961 --> 0:22:25.241 because Alan had taken out a loan before the murder 0:22:25.401 --> 0:22:28.561 to help pay the shop's debt, and after Carroll's death 0:22:28.601 --> 0:22:34.600 that loan was paid off completely. Alan and Margaret disappeared. 0:22:35.001 --> 0:22:37.961 They moved away from the area and from the corner shop, 0:22:38.161 --> 0:22:41.961 and eventually Alan and Margaret got married. They actually ended 0:22:42.041 --> 0:22:45.201 up buying their own corner shop together in nineteen eighty two. 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.361 Looking at the case again in twenty nineteen, police had 0:22:49.401 --> 0:22:52.281 a new theory. They had a lot of circumstantial evidence, 0:22:52.761 --> 0:22:55.441 but they still had zero physical evidence. 0:22:56.041 --> 0:22:59.201 But they didn't give up. They kept talking to outside experts. 0:22:59.681 --> 0:23:02.160 They made a bunch of new posters and handed them 0:23:02.201 --> 0:23:04.921 out all over town. And I found this part really 0:23:04.921 --> 0:23:10.001 interesting because the posters said did you know Carol? Which 0:23:10.041 --> 0:23:16.880 I think is a great way of bringing people out. Eventually, 0:23:17.201 --> 0:23:20.080 police said they were ready to bring Margaret and Allen 0:23:20.121 --> 0:23:24.481 in for questioning. They found them together, still married, now 0:23:24.521 --> 0:23:27.801 in their seventies. They were living in Brighton, and police 0:23:27.801 --> 0:23:31.641 took them in for interviews. Both of them completely denied 0:23:31.761 --> 0:23:36.281 any knowledge of or involvement in Carroll's murder. Margaret said 0:23:36.361 --> 0:23:37.921 she had been horrified when she. 0:23:37.881 --> 0:23:38.921 Heard about Carroll's death. 0:23:39.481 --> 0:23:42.001 She said after the murder, she didn't see Allen for 0:23:42.041 --> 0:23:44.761 several days. She said she out of town that week, 0:23:45.401 --> 0:23:48.521 but police knew that wasn't true because they had witnesses 0:23:48.561 --> 0:23:53.161 saying otherwise. Police went back and they kept knocking on doors. 0:23:53.801 --> 0:23:57.801 Eventually they figured out what they believed was the murder weapon. 0:23:58.361 --> 0:24:00.880 They had talked to several witnesses who said there was 0:24:00.961 --> 0:24:04.441 a machete in Alan's shop, and a machete in a 0:24:04.481 --> 0:24:06.401 corner shop is the kind of thing that you tend 0:24:06.481 --> 0:24:10.001 to notice. But Alan told police there wasn't a machete 0:24:10.041 --> 0:24:12.441 in there. He said he couldn't remember the type of 0:24:12.481 --> 0:24:12.921