1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. That is our super producer, 4 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. They call me ben fun fact nol Uh. 5 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: Neither of us speak the Lithuanian language. It's true. I 6 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: did try it for about a half an hour on 7 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: duo lingo and I am point o O O one 8 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: two three six repeating proficient awesome, dude, congratulations and you 9 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: know what which means I can pronounce the word of 10 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: the day. That's yeah, Kinnygnatia. Uh, we'll get, we'll get, 11 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: We'll get to what this means. We want to shout 12 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: out any Lithuanian Ridiculous Historians in the audience today, because 13 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: just a little more than a month ago, Lithuania celebrated 14 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: something called kyn Ignatia Diana the day of the book Smugglers, 15 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: and that's kind of what this episode is about. It's 16 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: so interesting the way history works, because yes, the three 17 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: of us don't ourselves speak the Lithuanian language with fluency, 18 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: but if things have gone just a little bit differently, 19 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: nobody would be speaking this language today. And it's there's 20 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: an amazing tale of the struggle for literacy and the 21 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: struggle for culture here. And I don't know about you guys, 22 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: but after I was after I caught up with this 23 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: and learned this story, which was totally new to me, 24 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: I was gassed. I was inspired. I love nerd fights. Well, yeah, 25 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: and I think we're all I mean, we're not. We're 26 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: not fans of book bands as a thing. Stories of 27 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: book bands are always interesting because it usually points to 28 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: a power struggle. Anytime there's like a desire to kind 29 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: of tap down on information, it means that some ruling 30 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: power is losing their grasp on control. And it's always 31 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: an interesting tipping point because, as we know, usually when 32 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: you do things like that, like say, oh no, you 33 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: can't have these books around anymore, let's burn them all, 34 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: there's usually a backlash of some kind or other, and 35 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: the one in today's story is particularly interesting and creative. Yes, agreed, 36 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: this is crime for the greater good. We hope that 37 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: you will agree with that assessment. By the end of 38 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: today's story. Let's maybe let's later get the lay of 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: the lands here, So this has Russia involved during this time, 40 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about sarist Russia. Russia dominated by the Star system. 41 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: They had taken control of a place called Lithuania after 42 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: the Commonwealth of Poland. Lithuania was divided in annexed like Prussia, Austria, 43 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: and Russia all came in and they split up this 44 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: area in sevent If you were living in Lithuania at 45 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: this time, the majority of your country fell under the 46 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: control of Russia, who had absolutely zero respect for Lithuanians 47 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: as a people or culture. Yeah, and we know that. 48 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: You know. Oftentimes conquering powers when they take their cut, 49 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: they liked the new subjects under their rule to fall 50 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: in line with their way of life, which includes, of 51 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: course their religion and sarist Russia, I believe would fall 52 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: under Russian Orthodoxy, but historically Lithuanians practiced Roman Catholicism. This 53 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: was not a good thing in the eyes of their 54 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: new rulers. They saw it as a potential threat to 55 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: their supremacy. We see this all the time. Any conquering 56 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: forces coming in, the first thing they do is try 57 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: to convert by force, usually um the people under their 58 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: rule to their religion. So that's exactly what Russia did. 59 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: The folks in power. They did it very much with 60 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: an iron fist by demolishing churches or chapels. Rather, they 61 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: also prohibited construction of certain types of shrines, and these 62 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: were structures that were all over the place. Apparently they 63 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: were around two shrines per kilometer there in Lithuania. And 64 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: another thing that happens in these situations, especially when folks 65 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: are overtaken by forces, they don't want to do that thing. 66 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: It's gonna take a lot to force this and usually 67 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: historically takes a very long time and results in a 68 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: lot of death and chaos and blood shed. So understandably, 69 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: the Lithuanian people wanted to hold onto their own culture, 70 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: and they had a university system there, and this is 71 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: a very learned people and a lot of scholars specializing 72 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: in the study of this religion, their faith in their 73 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: history and culture. So these university systems they essentially organized 74 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: the students rather organized um along with the clergy, and 75 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: they led a pretty violent uprising in eighteen thirty one 76 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: against the Russian occupiers. And it was initially a pretty 77 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: small scale kind of thing because Lithuania had a very 78 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: small population of only around a million people. By the way, 79 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: incredible Atlas Obscure article always love their work. If you 80 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: want to check out the article by Michael Waters from 81 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 1: July nine, seventeen the nineteenth century Lithuanians who smuggled books 82 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: to save their language, sort of giving you a little 83 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: bit of a taste of what's to come here. Yeah, 84 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: and I want to I want to go back to 85 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: this because I'm a big fan of contextualizing history, So 86 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: these wayside shrines will familiar to people who are history 87 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: buffs in this area. But the best one are the 88 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: best comparison that I could think of is Starbucks in 89 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: the US. Imagine if Starbucks had religious significance to people, 90 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: which they made for some big coffee fans. Imagine if 91 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: some foreign power came in and demolished every Starbucks. That's 92 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: how common these things were. So this was very much 93 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: an attack on this culture, and the resistance went on 94 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: for such a long time. We talked about the eighteen 95 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: thirty one University student resistance, which stands out because, like 96 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: you said, most resistance was operating on a pretty small scale, 97 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: and that was kind of an exception. But if you 98 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: fast forward about three decades, you see another massive insurrection, 99 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: and this is the backlash of This is what leads 100 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: to the cracked down on the Lithuanian language itself. The 101 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: war shifts to become a war on hearts, minds, culture 102 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: and language. I want to shout out the Vintage News 103 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: this awesome, awesome article by E. L. Hammington's. In the 104 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, Lithuanians smuggled books in an act of rebellion 105 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: against Russian control. Here's what happens before, Here's why these books. 106 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: Book smugglers exist. Eighteen sixty three, Like always say, this 107 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: is the biggest resistance movement. Sixty six thousand Lithuanians out 108 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: of a population of around a million, from all walks 109 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: of life, clergy, merchants, surfs, you know, like small scale 110 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: agricultural folks. They launch an armed rebellion, and that rebellion 111 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: is crushed. Thousands of people are dead, thousands are exiled 112 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: to Siberia, which at this time is pretty much a 113 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: death sentence as well. And then sorry, Alexander the Second says, 114 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: screw you, guys, We're going to crack down on this. 115 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: We're going to What they wanted to do is Russia 116 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: fi the Lithuanian population real world, to make things more 117 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: Russian Russia PI and remove its history. So like you know, 118 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: remove the Catholic Church. We want to issue we being sorry, 119 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: Alexander the second want to issue temporary rules for state 120 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: junior schools of what they called the Northwestern Cry. And 121 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: this was a law against children speaking or reading Lithuanian 122 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: in school. You could only read Russian. As you can imagine, 123 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: this is really difficult for kids who are you know, 124 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: already pretty far along in the education process and now 125 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: they have to learn a new language. This is uh 126 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: and it even gets worse the next year they're like, no, 127 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: no Lithuanian language in print. Ever. Yeah, it's just I mean, 128 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: you see these kinds of things throughout history and you 129 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: wonder it's like, are you're not able to read the room? 130 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this is not gonna end well like short 131 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: of just like app outright genocide, you know, I mean, 132 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: it's it's just not very functional. You know, these folks 133 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: have their own language, they have their own culture. Short 134 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: of just wiping them out and starting from scratch, it's 135 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: very uh unlikely. But there's going to be a mass 136 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, falling in line and just a wiping the 137 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: slate clean of all of this stuff. And this is 138 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: how human beings cling to language and culture in history 139 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: um is. So it's always them a little bit wondering, 140 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: and I guess it's just a matter of when you're 141 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: a supreme leader, you guess you can do whatever you 142 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: want and no one really questions you, and people just say, yeah, 143 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: it's a great idea, that'll totally work. But as we know, 144 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: because these small scale, even the big ones, small scale 145 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: sixty six thousand, pretty small scale, um compared to the 146 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: the Russian military might, you really can't fight the power here. 147 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: You have to kind of resort to more creative, kind 148 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: of sneaky means. So this ban on the Lithuanian press 149 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: was essentially an attempt to completely erase their language and 150 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: their culture and replace it with that of of of 151 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: Mother Russia. Lithuanian kids were also supposed to attend state 152 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: schools where they learned the sur really alphabet, which, by 153 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: the way, I mean, despite Russia being a pretty cruel 154 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: and uh intense occupier in the situation, I do think 155 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: that this relic alphabet is one of the most beautiful 156 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: printed languages I've ever seen. It's really really cool looking, 157 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: but also I imagine, very very complex and difficult to 158 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: learn from scratch. So a lot of historical reports from 159 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: the time kind of indicated mainly what I was surprised by, 160 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: just that the Russian rulers didn't really think that this 161 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: would be that big a deal to institute this span. 162 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: It's like, come on, Russians, great, they think they're alphabets 163 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: beautiful too. This will be a great opportunity for them 164 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: to you know, start a new under, a new uh, 165 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: a new culture, and a new language. But like I 166 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: also said, and I think everyone probably pretty easily can 167 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: see how this is the case. This is not something 168 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: they were willing to just give up without a huge fight. 169 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. It has uh similar assumptions as the 170 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: more recent assumptions about in the invasion of you crying. 171 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: You can't think that people will just say they have 172 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: no nationality or cultural identity because you told them they didn't. Actually, 173 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: that's something that people will go to the map for. 174 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: Throughout history we see this happen. And the Lithuanian I 175 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: guess you can call them the intelligentsia, you know, the 176 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: university folks, the clergy, so on. They're not going out 177 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: without a fight, and they figure out first they figure 178 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: out a loophole, very obvious loophole. Russia is has annexed 179 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: and has occupied in this area, so they can prevent 180 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: printing presses in this country from making stuff in Lithuanian, 181 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: but they can't do anything for books printed in foreign lands. 182 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: And so these guys get together and start printing things 183 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: in other countries and then they ugle them into Lithuania. 184 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: This is the rise of the kenneg Nazi or pardon 185 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: my Lithuanian her book carriers would be the translation. They 186 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: transported books across the border, and then they functioned as 187 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: an underground distribution service to get them to Lithuanian children, 188 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: to get them to other cities and villages, and at 189 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: first there was a cottage industry. These guys were lone wolves. 190 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: They were walking alone, literally carrying books and sacks like 191 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: some kind of reading rainbow Santa Claus or. They were 192 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: in covered wagons and they had these way stations where 193 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: they would drop these books off. Of course, they were 194 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: traveling by cover of night, and they were also traveling 195 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: when the weather was bad, particularly during winter blizzards, because 196 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: that's when guards and Russian authorities would be most likely 197 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: to you know, stay in and stay warm. Sure, I 198 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: mean it reminds me of like, you know, in in 199 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: robin Hood, the Disney cartoon with the cartoon Fox, robin 200 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 1: Hood dresses up as a beggar, you know, to kind 201 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: of like be incognito and and and kind of slide 202 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: under the radar. That was a big thing they did 203 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: as well. Oftentimes women who were smuggling these books dressed 204 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: like beggars and they hid these books in sacks of 205 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: cheese or eggs or bread, kind of like a bindle situation. 206 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: Some even used tool belts and pretended to be workmen 207 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: and disguised newspapers under their clothes, like you might be 208 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: able to wrap your body, you know, and clothes if 209 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: you had like a kind of like layers on, you 210 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily notice that there were, you know, printed materials 211 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: being concealed underneath. So by around late in the nineteenth century, 212 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: everyone was kind of getting in on the game because 213 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: this was a way of participating in the preservation of 214 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: the Lithuanian culture, which meant a lot to everybody. Again, 215 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: the whole layered clothing. They would sometimes pretend to be 216 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: overweight by stuffing clothes with these newspapers and books, and 217 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: doctors even got it on them by hiding books inside 218 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: of their medical bags. We had farmers who were moving around, 219 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: you know, grain and things like that and vegetables. Um, 220 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: they would hide publications in there as well. Even musicians 221 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: would hide things in their in their instrument cases. Yeah, 222 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: these are all common tricks for smugglers nowadays. But we 223 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: have to realize that these folks weren't coming from a 224 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: criminal background. In the vast majority of cases, this was 225 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: a life to which they were not acclimated and they 226 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: were doing it. Again, I count emphasized this enough for 227 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: a greater good. They even set up underground schools. If 228 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: the authorities are keeping too much of an eye on 229 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: the actual school buildings, then they start teaching in churches 230 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: and it holds and they be These book smugglers become 231 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: folk heroes. They become a a national symbol. They're the 232 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: face of the resistance, and the Russians are deaf infinitely 233 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: after them. We want to introduce the guy is a 234 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,359 Speaker 1: key figure in this. His name is Bishop multi Laos Valencius. 235 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: He had already been an historian for a long time. 236 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: He had written a lot of religious and secular works 237 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: in Lithuanian and he was sometimes called the greatest Lithuanian 238 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: personality in the nineteenth century, which is a very specific award. 239 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: He's the guy who made the first large scale attempt 240 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: to get these books into the country, and he did 241 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: this by me. He was religiously motivated, at least in part. 242 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: He wanted to publish more prayer books in the native language, 243 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: so he sent some cash to Prussia across the border 244 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: to create a printing press, and then in eighteen sixty 245 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: seven he got a bunch of priests who were in 246 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: Prussia to bring the books back into Lithuania and start 247 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: handing him out to locals. He was organizing this and 248 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: at first he was just doing Latin reprints of religious text. 249 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: Their problem with that, of course, was it was Roman Catholic. 250 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: They weigh everything in Russian, hence Cyrillic not Latin. Lithuanian 251 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: is in Latin alphabet and or a Latin alphabet and 252 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: uh as as stuff grew kind of like a way 253 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: nicer version of Walter White and breaking bad, his operation 254 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: grew and his ambitions grew in step. So he started 255 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: to commission original works, and then he started to get 256 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: some of his own works printed out at this press 257 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: in Prussia at this press and Prussia and his his 258 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: team started moving them across the border. And one thing 259 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: that's interesting about this operation is because of the way 260 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: it started, because of this bishop. A lot of these 261 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: are early smugglers were priests, which is probably not what 262 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: they were thinking of when they took their vows, but 263 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: they were. They were down to clown Many shore to 264 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: the tune of around nineteen thousand books that were printed 265 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: in East Prussia and brought back into the country, back 266 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: into Lithuania. Eleven of these smugglers are at the very least, 267 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: according to the vintage news piece and their research, were caught. 268 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily an instant death sentence, but you did 269 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: get banished to a little place called Siberia, he might 270 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: have heard of, pretty brutal, basically a death sentence, if 271 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: not just the most unpleasant long term existence you could 272 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: possibly imagine. And we're gonna get more into that and 273 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: just a little bit. But despite the dangers um and 274 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: in some of the negative outcomes, this movement and this 275 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:43,239 Speaker 1: resistance did grow. Valencius's own, uh you know, kind of 276 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: initial group, the Kindnignace started to kind of shoot off 277 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: into little splinter groups, uh, And then those sort of 278 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: developed into a larger smuggling organization, sort of a network, 279 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: and they had uh names such a Stimulus, Rebirth, the Sprout, 280 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: the Truth, the Ray of Light Compulsion that's the weird one, uh, 281 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: and the morning Star. And they started to import books 282 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: from even as far as the US, where there was 283 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: a pretty large Lithuanian American expat population who would help 284 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: with the printing. Yeah, and these organizations all they kind 285 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: of collaborated, but they could also act independently when needed. 286 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: So they distributed textbooks, science books, fiction, sermons, folklore, you 287 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: name it. They became printing houses almost And yes, this 288 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: this was a widespread activity in its glory days, right 289 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: at its apex, But that doesn't mean it was easy. 290 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: The Lithuanian border was tough to cross. There were three 291 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: different lines of Russian security, much more intense than the 292 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: Custom Agency would run into a border crossings today. The 293 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: first line was a bunch of soldiers along the border 294 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: who were purposely distributed really densely so that they could 295 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: see each other. They were like line of sight with 296 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: each other. And then if you made it past that line, 297 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: there was another row of soldiers a little less intense, 298 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: spread further out, and then the last line of defense. 299 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: That third line was the Russian Empire police officers. They 300 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: rode around on horseback and they had a network of 301 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: local informants who I think, we're very unethical people. If 302 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: you got caught, you would get first off, you would 303 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: get tied to a post and they would whip the 304 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: snot out of you. This is not like a fun 305 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: birthday spanking. This kind of stuff leaves scars for the 306 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: rest of your life. And then you were either imprisoned 307 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: and maybe in Lithuania, or you were sent to Siberia. 308 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: And if you tried to run, like if you somehow 309 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: had a high enough constitution role to get back on 310 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: your feet after you get whipped and then make a 311 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: go for it, they would just shoot you in the back. Uh. 312 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: They burned the Russian soldiers, that is, they burned every 313 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: single book or journal that they found on the smugglers. 314 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: We know that the number of smugglers caught and transported 315 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: to Siberia or shot or imprisoned, it's kind of lost 316 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: to history. The first major arrest was sometime in either 317 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy or eighteen seventy one. Russian forces caught and 318 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: sentenced eleven members of Valentius crew. They were eight of them, 319 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: five priests of farmer and even a noble were sent 320 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: to Siberia and the operation was compromised. So just a 321 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: few years later, in eighteen seventy five, he died. But 322 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: in the words of che ga Vera, it's like, shoot, fool, 323 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: you were only killing a man because his mission continued 324 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: well after his death, thanks to his thanks to his mentee, 325 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: his disciple, and that I mean, honestly, ben that's that 326 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: quote sums up this whole situation. You know, you just 327 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: can't do what the Russians are trying to do without 328 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: the most draconian measures, like literally genocide. Human beings are 329 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: going to cling on to the things that that they 330 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: give them, uh, identity, uh. And this stuff is very 331 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: deeply ingrained through generation. So I mean, yeah, it's absolutely true. 332 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: And so it's sort of like a losing battle on 333 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: the Russian side, But boy did they continue to try. 334 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: But to your point, ben, Um, this message and this 335 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: you know struggle, this uh cause did continue and the 336 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: leadership was passed on to somebody else. Valencia's basically had 337 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: a successor sort of already in place a guy named 338 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: Urgus Bielini's, who is a Lithuanian nationalist whose father was 339 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: a very um intense political activist, and so he kind 340 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: of followed in his father's footsteps there and was ready 341 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: to go. Biolini's met Valencius in eighteen seventy three, after 342 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: Billinus graduated from a university in Latvia and Riga, Latvia, 343 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: and by that point this resistance we've been talking about 344 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: was already happening in a big way, and he was 345 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: of course very ardently in favor of a Lithuanian culture 346 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: and identity and those things not being wiped away by Russia. 347 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: So he and Valencius really hit it off. They kind 348 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: of formed a pact essentially that they were going to 349 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: band together um and continue this preservation of the culture 350 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: and the language that they both loved and felt was very, 351 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: very very important to continue. And he was adamant in 352 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: this cause. He said that he would not rest until quote, 353 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: the Muscovites got out of Lithuania. That's what led him 354 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: to create the Garsha ken Ignashi Society in eighteen five. 355 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: This would become the largest smuggling operation of its type 356 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: in the country and he was given the unofficial title 357 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: the King of the Book Carriers, which is no, yeah, 358 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: you know what, I think it is cooler than Wallace 359 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: Stevenson's Emperor of ice Cream. So that's a great poem. 360 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: But by the way, muscow By just refers to people 361 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: native to Moscow. Yeah. So basically he was saying he 362 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: was gonna do whatever it took. He was going to 363 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: continue in this cause until every last Russian was gone, 364 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: which was not something that was very much in the 365 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: car and so basically saying almost it was almost as 366 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: if to say until I die. Yeah. And so members 367 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: of the society created Soon there were thousands of them. 368 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: This was by far the biggest organization and it had 369 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: the power of the people because they crowdsourced money to 370 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: get books from these publishers in Prussia, and then they 371 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: started a subscription service. How cool is this You could 372 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: put some money in for the cause, right, and instead 373 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: of just like buying guns or something for hopelessly outnumbered militia, 374 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: by the way, you are buying books. And this guy 375 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: is credited with smuggling. Get this, folks, Nearly half of 376 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: all the books brought into Lithuania from East Prussia during 377 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: this time, he even was smuggling to Lithuania's living in Latvia. 378 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: The heat was on. The Russian authorities were hip to 379 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: this guy, and by the eighteen nineties they put out 380 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: a bounty on him. This is like the most militant 381 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,239 Speaker 1: reading rainbow ever and there were several man hunts. He 382 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: was able to evade capture for a long time because 383 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: literally everybody except for Russians and turn Coats are on 384 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: his side. Again, we have to emphasize these folks aren't criminals. 385 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: They're doing an act that has become criminalized by a 386 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: foreign power. And at the turn of the century, while 387 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: he is on the run, mind you, how badass is this? 388 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: He created a Lithuanian newspaper and if you got a subscription, 389 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: he would just deliver it to you regularly. It was 390 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,239 Speaker 1: called the White Eagle. It was printed on one of 391 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: the only press is active in Lithuania at the time, 392 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: and he brought it in from Prussia. That's why I 393 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: think is so cool. He said, why are we just 394 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: smuggling books? I want to smuggle in an actual printing press. 395 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: We're not sure exactly how he was able to pull 396 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: this off, but he got it past those three lines, 397 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: and he was also able to get the supplies you 398 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 1: need to run a printing press. And then he taught 399 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: a dot another smuggler, a guy named Stepanus Povlionis, to 400 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: work a printing press. I mean, I am, I am 401 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: imprinting pressed with these kids. Yeah, it's pretty incredible because 402 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: it's kid man I like that. But you know what 403 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. A sprinting press is like 404 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: a massive operation, a massive piece of machinery so to smuggling, 405 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: and it would have had to come in and pieces 406 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: and then be assembled. I mean, this is like difficult 407 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: stuff that you can't just kind of intuitively figure out. 408 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: But they worked out all the logistics and they made 409 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: it happen. Um So, I don't know if we mentioned, 410 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: but Bielinas came from a lower class background. He was 411 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: a peasant and through his own you know, blood, sweat 412 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: and tears and effort, he kind of ascended to the 413 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: position of an intellectual. And this atics obscure article very 414 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: apthlete describes him as a defender of the Lithuanian language. 415 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: But this was something that was not the most out 416 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: of the ordinary thing. Under these extraordinary circumstances of the time, 417 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: because the Russian Empire had abolished serfdom in the early 418 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: eighteen sixties, and therefore there was this kind of new 419 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: class that emerged, a class known as peasant intellectuals that 420 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: kind of begun to take shape because if you weren't 421 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: just constantly having to work the land as a surf 422 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 1: it kind of freed up some bandwidth, like read and 423 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: educate yourself and become something different than just a run 424 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: of the mill, you know, manual laborer. Uh So this 425 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: became almost an unanticipated outcome of Russia taking that action, 426 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, getting rid of the surf class. They kind 427 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: of created the groundwork for their own overthrow, at least 428 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: in terms of um, the spread of anti Russia information 429 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: and and the idea of being able to kind of 430 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: preserve the culture of these invaded people. So there's a person, 431 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: a writer named Zigmantis Kiopa who wrote a book called 432 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: the History of Lithuania UM. He described this class as 433 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: the most faithful users of the Lithuanian language and largely 434 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: occupying the majority of this you know, book smuggling kind 435 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: of contingent. Yeah, Like s of the smugglers were peasants, 436 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: And I do want to amend the Russian Empire. When 437 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: they were putting out their man hunts for Bullinias, they 438 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: caught him five times. He just kept getting away because again, 439 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: everybody who actually is Lithuaitian is on his side. The 440 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: Robin Hood example is pretty spot on there. So it's 441 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds. Now these guys are getting creative. 442 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: Some people are even getting the Russian police to help them. 443 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: The head officer of Ario Gala, they're in Central Lithuania, 444 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: joins the smuggling conspiracy. That's really what it is, all 445 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: smuggling as a conspiracy in and then other people are saying, hey, 446 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: there's some loopholes in this press band because if we 447 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: print stuff on slabs of clay, they're not considered books, 448 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: so they're not technically illegal. We're going to old school 449 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: with it. We mentioned the Sea grid schools, right. We 450 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: didn't mention how this is tough on the kids though, 451 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: because imagine you're a kid. Your parents are basically telling you, look, 452 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: now you have two schools. You have the fake school 453 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: you have to go to for these Russian jerks, and 454 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: then you go to real school at night, and your 455 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: neighbor's house and that's where your actual education is going 456 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: to happen, So you know, look like you're paying attention 457 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: during the day, but don't stress about it, don't try 458 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: so we can only imagine how many kids funked. Well, 459 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: you say that, and I think there's probably some truth 460 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: to that, and I know you're joking, but also, like, 461 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: isn't it such a privilege that Americans have We speak 462 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: the English, we learn a second language kind of almost 463 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: as like a luxury or like as like sort of 464 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: like an elective, you know, in school. I know, anytime 465 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: I've traveled abroad, it is just like understood nearly that 466 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: just about everyone speaks English because it is something that 467 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: is just taught and it is a necessity for business 468 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: in many ways. But you know, we are so privileged 469 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: in you know, it's just not nearly as common for 470 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: Americans to like speak multiple languages. But I've bet a 471 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: lot of these kids probably did learn Russian pretty well 472 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 1: in addition to Lithuanian and had to kind of like 473 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: hide it because honestly, I bet ben if they were flunking, 474 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: that would be a bad look, and I bet it 475 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: might come back to visit the parents, you know, if 476 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: the kids weren't doing well. Yeah, if all, if all 477 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: the kids in class were funking, that would be sus. 478 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: But you know, to that point they were because this 479 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: is Europe, there were probably already a lot of kids 480 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: who were bilingual to some degree in Russian or maybe 481 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: another language in that area. And yes, of course, the 482 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: idea of a secondary extracurricular program after school is still 483 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: pretty common throughout the world. Like a lot of Japanese 484 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: American kids here in the US go to Japanese school 485 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: on the weekends, you know, and it's totally separate from 486 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: whatever school they're going to for grade school through high school. 487 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: But they're not forced to do this by a state power, 488 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: you know. And I think that's one of the big distinctions. 489 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: So now we have to ask how many books did 490 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: the Russian forces at this time actually burn or actually confiscate. 491 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: We know that in one decade to one they confiscated 492 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: well over a hundred and seventy three thousand different publications, 493 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: and we don't know how many books were actually printed 494 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: and smuggled, because we only know the ones that were 495 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: caught as a result of the illegality of the operation. 496 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to keep a tally that could be 497 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: easily found by the authorities, because that would be a 498 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: tremendous boon to them. The confiscation rate skyrocketed over the 499 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: next few years, nights, you know, one to oh four. 500 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: And this is why you'll see historians like the one 501 00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: we referenced earlier saying, if they had to guess, there 502 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: could have been millions of smuggled books. Virtually every town 503 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: in village had their own treasure trove of illegal books, 504 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: as well as a secret Lithuaitian school. And if you 505 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: want kids to think school is cool as lame in 506 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: ess that sounds, tell them it's secret. People love secrets, man, 507 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: And uh, we know that more and more people were 508 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: engaging in this conspiracy towards the height of it. It 509 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: was kind of like the Hydra organization in Marvel comics 510 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: and Marvel films, because anybody could be Hydra and you 511 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: didn't really know until they leaned in and whispered, like 512 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: hell Hydra. So you would see widows, farmers, doctors, musicians, 513 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,719 Speaker 1: like organists, traveling salesman. You know, they would just be 514 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: their regular Lithuaitian selves until they leaned in and said, 515 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: I've got some bocks. That was like their hale Hydra moment, 516 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: and I think that is awesome. But then we see 517 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: more secret newspapers, more and more people are rallying against 518 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: this idea of Russification. As you can tell, fellow ridiculous historians, 519 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: Russification is not going well. It might look okay to 520 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: this are on paper, but it's it's not working. People 521 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: start organizing music, will get togethers secret plays about how 522 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: awesome Lithuanian culture and languages, and then they start having 523 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: these things they called picnics, which look like you know, 524 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: regular picnics until you hear what people are saying. It's 525 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: all about the rebirth of the Lithuanian state or the 526 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: resistance against the what they saw as the evil empire 527 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: of Russia. So this is inspiring stuff, and it I 528 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: think eventually at some point, if we take the Russian perspective, 529 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to say, how long are we gonna 530 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: keep up this band, especially if it's not working. You know, 531 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: we got like hundreds of soldiers on the border and 532 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: they're obviously not great at this. Yeah. Look, I mean 533 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me of like what happened with 534 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall for example. You know, where you had 535 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: Russia realizing that it was too expensive to maintain that 536 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: segregation between East and West Berlin, and to maintain that 537 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: iron grasp over information and controlling information and keeping tabs 538 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: on everybody and all of these operations, they just balloon 539 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: out of control. Um. It just seems like historically Russia 540 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: has a history of biting off a little more than 541 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: they can chew in the pursuit of ideology. What do 542 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: you think about that? Then? Well, it's tough because these 543 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: are very very different versions of Russia. That's why I'm 544 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: pointing out the thematic commonality of underestimation, you know, with 545 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: with Ukraine. Me when I say earlier and I agree, 546 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: you know, society should not hold the current government of 547 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: Russia responsible for the actions of Sarrost Russia. It's very 548 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: very different, but for sure. But yeah, there's there's a 549 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: fail earlier to uh, to really understand the vibe here 550 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: and the war or the objections. The resistance against this 551 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: band is being fought in legal channels too. It's not 552 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: all just books smuggling, although that's probably the coolest part 553 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: of the story. People were organizing actual petitions to the 554 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: Russian Empire and the Russian government would receive these requests 555 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: that would say, you know, stuff like we the people 556 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: of this village or some sort of constituency, would like 557 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: to end the ban on the Lithuanian language. We're just 558 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 1: asking you through legal channels, and eventually the tide turns, 559 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: not in Lithuania, but in Russia. Russian intellectuals are saying, 560 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: what's the point of this band? We didn't really define it. 561 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: People are still writing and speaking and reading in Lithuanian. 562 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: They're just using clay tablets because whoever wrote this law 563 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: didn't understand how to define stuff. The Council of Ministers 564 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: in Russia says, okay, this is officially a failure. Nineteen 565 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: o four, they retire the band they ended. They're trying 566 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: to reconcile with military groups because something else is happening. 567 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: They need more support from anything affiliated with the Russian 568 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: Empire because they're in the Russian Japanese War. But it's 569 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: too little, too late. Lithuanians are not having it, you 570 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And our guy here bilinists. He 571 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: starts talking more and more about being fully independent from Russia. 572 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: He becomes like, you know, we we kind of say 573 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: it was always an ardent nationalist. Now he is like 574 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: a spokesman for Lithuania, and he is one of the 575 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: driving forces for the active independence of Lithuania in February 576 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen. Unfortunately, and this is one of the sad 577 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 1: ironies that happens so often in history, he passed away 578 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: eight the month before he died in January eighteen, before 579 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: he saw the legislation he had fought so hard for 580 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: come to pass. But then, on a lighter note, imagine 581 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: you're a book smuggler. Imagine you're one of the teachers, 582 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: remember the clergy, and he got all these books, all 583 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: these secret cool books, and now the book ban is lifted. 584 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: Your book rich What are you gonna do? Do people 585 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: still want books? I don't know. How do you move 586 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: all these books? You got like a hundred copies of 587 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: I don't know, you've got a hundred copies of the 588 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: New Testament in Lithuanian or in Latin or whatever. What 589 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: do you do? Well? Uh, you could open a bookshop. Hey, 590 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: that'd be cool. And not only would it just be 591 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: a bookshop, you know with all this inventory, I mean, 592 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: it's essentially an incredible foundation to start a long lasting 593 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: legacy historical bookshop, and this place exists. In nineteen o five, 594 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: right after the band was lifted, one of the bugglers, 595 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: a dude named Joossis massi ulis Um, opened such a 596 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: store in Ponnisis. And again apologies for butchering these pronunciations. 597 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,720 Speaker 1: And it's still open today and it is actually part 598 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: of a chain of bookstores um that have since sprung 599 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: up in Lithuania under the same name. So in to 600 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: further honor the legacy of this period, statue was built 601 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 1: in the capital at the time was the capital of Kawanas, 602 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: and that was to commemorate the placard read the unknown 603 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: book Smuggler, more of like a symbolic thing to talk 604 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: about the people who we will never know their names 605 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: because we only really have a handful of figures because, 606 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, the record keeping was a little wonky. 607 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: So cool. So today in Lithuania, March sixteenth is the 608 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: birthday of Urgus bielinis Um and it is celebrated as 609 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: Kei Ignestio Dianna, which is translated to the day of 610 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: the book Smugglers or carriers, depending on um your preference. Um, yeah, um, 611 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: pretty big deal. Yeah, that's why we opened with this, 612 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: So a happy day of the book smugglers. Happy belated 613 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: KIGSI Dania to all who celebrate. I think I don't 614 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: know but you guys, but I'm celebrating this now. I 615 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: think saving things through the power of literacy is awesome. 616 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons that people like me end 617 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: up in things like podcasts. At this point, maybe we 618 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: give the last word to Jonas step Sish, who talked 619 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: about his father and his uncle as book smugglers. He 620 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,720 Speaker 1: says smuggling is the reason, or one of the primary reasons, 621 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: Lithuania was able to regain independence when he writes, the 622 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: struggles of the book carriers have been praised in modern 623 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: times by people like father you Willonius Casperavicius, who said 624 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: the work of restoring Lithuania's independence began not in eight 625 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen, when it declared itself a state, but rather 626 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: the time of the book carriers, with bundles of books 627 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: and pamphlets on their backs. These warriors were the first 628 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: to start preparing the ground for independence, the first to 629 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: propagate the idea that it was imperative to throw off 630 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: the yoke of Russian oppression. So pretty cool. And also, 631 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, kudos Tsarist Russia because there miscalculation about banning 632 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: a language in a very real way set the dominoes toppling, right, 633 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: That's what led to Lithuania's ultimate independence. I think it's 634 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: a cool lesson. I know we went a little bit 635 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: long on this one, but we hope you enjoyed it 636 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: as well, folks, and we can't wait to hear from you. 637 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: What are some other awesome acts of literacy as rebellion 638 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: or literacy as resistance? I would say the still yaga 639 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: are up there. Music literacy is the same as print literacy, 640 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,439 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of examples about these. Can't 641 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: wait to hear about them. Yeah, you can hit us 642 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: up on the internet. Were ridiculous historians on Facebook. That's 643 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: the name of our Facebook group. A lot of good 644 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: meme activity and chatter there around the shows that we 645 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: do every week. You can also find Ben and I 646 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: as individual human people on the Internet. I am pretty 647 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: much exclusively on Instagram, where you can find me at 648 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: how now Noel Brown, Mr Boland about yourself? Well, Mr Brown, 649 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians, you can indeed find me on the internet. 650 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: The rumors are true. I've got a lot of exciting 651 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: stuff coming up that I can't yet announce on air, 652 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: But get in on the ground floor. Follow me at 653 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: ben Bowling b O W l I N on Instagram. 654 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter where I'm at 655 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: ben Bowling hs W. That's a great place to send 656 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: suggestions for episodes and questions. Great place to send terrible puns. 657 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: I love them. Hashtag no pun left behind bonus. If 658 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: you're on Twitter, you may also catch the one and 659 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: only Mr Max Williams. Yes it is I, Mr Max Williams. 660 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at at He'll underscore 661 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: Max Williams where you'll see all my fun interests and 662 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: stuff and Max may end up also throwing us for 663 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: a curl ball and then your future not a curveball. 664 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: That's no other spoilers, but it's curling reference right. No. 665 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: Spoiling was a big one with the smooth stone used 666 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: to move around ice thingies bucks. What do you call it? 667 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: MACI give us the skinny rocks. They are rocks, throwing rocks, 668 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: throwing rocks with Max Williams on the curling field of 669 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 1: play on the sheet of ice. Yeah, yes, the sheet 670 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: device of course, how could I be so foolish? Yes, 671 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,280 Speaker 1: still brooms and there there are that didn't totally didn't 672 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: totally cripple the spoilers. So yeah, just stay tuned on that. 673 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm sticking with the curlball thing. Yeah, thanks to Mr 674 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: Matt Williams. Thanks to Casey pegroove. I looked at my 675 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: old Casey on the case T shirt. Man, it's still 676 00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,760 Speaker 1: it's still a good idea classic shirt, classic Shure vintage 677 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: at this point. We'll see you next time, folks. For 678 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 679 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 680 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: favorite shows.