WEBVTT - #053 Jason Flom with Kirstin Blaise Lobato 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.080 America has two point two million people in prison. If 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.200 just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two thousand people. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.040 That's a lot of people's lives destroyed. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:18.440 If the system want to take you out of society, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.800 they will do it no matter what laws they have 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.680 to break, saying that they are enforcing the laws, but 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:25.800 they're breaking the lord. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.360 Having to hear those people say that I was guilty 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.479 of a crime that I did not commit, and then 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.559 hear my family break down behind me and not be 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.600 able to do anything about it. I can't describe the 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:38.640 crushing weight that was. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.680 I'm not anti police, I'm just anti corruption. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.840 A lot of times we look and we see something 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.200 happen to somebody, and that's the first thing we said, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:50.720 that could never happen to me, But. 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:52.600 They can. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:15.920 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:21.039 featured guest is Blaize Lobato, who only recently was freed 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.480 from prison after serving over sixteen years for a crime 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:26.279 she didn't commit. 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.440 July first, two thousand and one, a homeless man named 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.840 Duran Bailey was found brutally murdered. An eighteen year old 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.960 was found guilty of that crime. Lobata was sentenced to 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.800 thirteen to forty five years after being found guilty of 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.479 manslaughter in two thousand and six. At the crime scene 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.800 there were cigarette butts, chewing gum, bloody shoe prints, fingerprints, 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.120 pubic hair, and seamen. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.200 Dozens of the items at the crime scene were never tested. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.840 The family of Lobato and her supporters maintained it was 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.840 a botched police investigation in which DNA was never tested, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.600 leeds were never followed, and more importantly, the family says 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.040 the savage killer or killers are still out there. 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.640 Blaze, welcome to the show. I'm sorry you're here. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.000 Oh, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate that. 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.040 You know. I'm sorry as well, but it is what 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:12.440 it is. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.359 And with Blaze are two of her attorneys, Innocence Project 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:22.760 staff attorneys Jane Boucher and Odd Non Sultan. Jane od Non. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.880 Welcome, Hi, Hi, thank you for having us. 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.480 Glad to have you here. So Blaze, your story, even 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.519 among all the crazy stories that we cover on this show, 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.200 has elements that we've never heard about. And I want 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.000 to get right into it. Let's go back to your childhood. 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.840 I mean, you're still a child pretty much when all 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.760 this happens, you're still a teenager. But where did you 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.520 grow up? How did you grow up? How was your 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.560 life before the before the storm hit? 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.600 Well, I was born in Last Crisis, New Mexico. When 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.120 I was about two years old, my biological mother and 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:02.240 my father came to Las Vegas to begin their new 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:07.320 life together, and shortly thereafter things didn't work out in 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.680 their relationship. My mother took my father to court and 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.320 gained custody of me. When I was about five years old, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.280 she took me to California where I was sexually abused 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.840 by her boyfriend for an extended period of time. And 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:28.560 because of that abuse, my dad got me back without 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:29.480 going through the courts. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.720 How six nice Jesus Christ. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.720 So from that point on we lived in Las Vegas. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.560 You know, there were periods of feast and famine because 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:47.000 of my parents' lifestyle. At times, my father sold drugs 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:51.480 to support our family. And when that was the case, 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.960 everything was wonderful. We had everything, and when it wasn't, 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:58.800 you know, we were living on beans and rice for 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.800 months at a time. So my childhood was was you know, 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.560 it was tough. It was tough, and you know, when 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.839 my family would get too far over the edge, or 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.880 later on, when I started getting in trouble as a teenager, 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.600 they would ship me to Texas to be with my grandparents. 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.200 So it was kind of a back and forth game. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.760 At some point, I think I was about ten or eleven, 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:30.320 my dad's drug abuse became so so bad that my 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.120 stepmom gave him an ultimatum that either they leave or 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.799 she would leave him. So we moved to a small 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:41.920 town in northern Nevada called Panaka, and it was very difficult. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.440 It was a predominantly Mormon community and we stood out. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:49.440 We were the outcasts, and it made it difficult for me. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.640 So when I had junior high school, the only place 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.240 that I found acceptance was with the bad crowd, and 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:57.599 thus the drug abuse began. 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.560 Right, So you ended up getting involved and drugs, But 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.919 it's important to note that you were actually drug free 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.640 at the time that the criminal justice system collapsed inwards 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.240 on you. Yeah, okay, so you you got involved with drugs. 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.920 You were around drugs so much was probably almost inevitable. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.440 Right when I was seventeen, I was raped by my 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.599 best friend's father, and it was at that point that 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:27.320 I decided never again and So when I was assaulted 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:32.000 in Las Vegas later and I escaped, I was so 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.120 proud of myself for being able to defend myself and 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.679 not be a victim yet again that I told everyone. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.599 And by the way, that's not a story you hear 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.919 every day, right, You don't hear too many stories of 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.159 rapes going wrong unless somebody walks in on them, or 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.280 you know, there's a you know, there's some outside interference. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.800 Otherwise people get trapped and some of them considers it 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.440 was likely just to survive. Right, So how did you 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.720 manage to escape this rapet to where was it? 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.400 It was at the Budget Suite on Boulder Highway and 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:02.240 Las Vegas. 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:03.320 How did it come about? 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:08.000 I was out late partying and I was leaving my 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.320 car and I got attacked in the parking lot and 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.280 I had a knife on me, and I fended off 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.280 the attack with a knife. I don't know what I 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.880 cut if I cut him, you know, I don't know 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.839 the extent of his injuries, obviously, but I was able 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.800 to get out from underneath him and get away, get 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.200 in my car and drive. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.039 So he tried to rape you in the parking lot. 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:29.640 In the parking lot in the middle of the night, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.320 in the middle of the night, so you got away 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.600 for once, for once, finally, and you're feeling sort of triumphant. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.840 So you go home and you tell people about it, 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.720 because I mean, I'm excited to tell people about it 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.479 right now. So I imagine it would have been something 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.440 you would have been spreading the news. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.320 Yeah, I was. I was proud of myself. So things 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.000 got a little crazy after that. I continued the drug use, 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.760 and at some point I decided that that was not 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.000 the life that I wanted to live. So I left 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.839 Las Vegas and went back to Panaka to get clean. 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.679 And there was a little bit of back and forth 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.160 in there. I can't remember exactly the dates and times, 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.839 but I know that I came back to Vegas for 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:09.960 a very short period of time and called my dad 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.200 and made him come get me so that I could 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.320 leave again. And then actually, on the night of the 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.320 eighth was when I was going to go back to 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:23.480 Vegas again and try again and again without success, and 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.239 ended up back in Panaka. So when the homicide detective 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.360 showed up in my house, the first thing that they 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.760 said to me was, we know what happened to you 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.320 as a child. Because there was police reports and such, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.080 so they were able to find it in their system 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.960 and they used that as a tool to manipulate me. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:42.600 So how did they use that as a tool to 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:43.120 manipulate you? 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.920 At that point, I hadn't worked through the trauma, so 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.040 when they brought it up and they started asking questions, 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.800 it immediately shut me down and made me emotional. And 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:55.760 then they were like, we know you were attacked. They 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.920 acted like they were on my side. They asked me 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.880 three times, they questioned me through three times before they 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.520 ever recorded, and they didn't give me my Miranda rights 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.840 until after the fact, which you know, we never made 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.040 an issue of because it's neither here nor there. I mean, 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.480 it should have been maybe, but I don't have any 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.600 proof because I signed the Miranda card, so I can't 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.800 say it was before or it was after. 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.600 You know, when they started questioning you, did you know 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.160 what they were questioning you about? 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.360 No. I assumed that it was the situation I went through, 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.200 and I thought, oh, I must have really, you know, 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:30.920 it must have been a traumatic injury and it must 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.679 have killed the guy. I had no idea they were 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.000 talking about something else in another part of town at 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.840 another time, of the year. I had no idea. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.319 How crazy, right, So you're having two different conversations at 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:43.600 the same time, and the. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:48.320 Police never they never questioned me further to iron out 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:49.400 the discrepancies. 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.200 This is like surreal, right, they're actually questioning you about 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.840 a crime that you don't even know they're and you've 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.720 got this other thing in your head. There must be 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.959 like some very strange moments in that conversation. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.679 Her statement is about the attack from budget suites. That's 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:08.040 what she's actually describing. And they had I mean, we 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.840 talked about this tunnel vision that they weren't willing to question, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.520 like some of the things she said doesn't make sense. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.760 Everything that was inconsistent. They just said, oh, she used drugs, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:18.920 right and discounted it. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.120 That's a catch all. And Jane to talk about that, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.559 and I also like to get your just a summary 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.960 of this gruesome crime that they decided that she must 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:28.840 have been a suspect in, but they were questioning her 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.040 about something that was completely foreign to her. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.599 Sure, So just to give a little bit of timeline, 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.240 you know, this crime, this person, Duran Bailey was the 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.920 name of the victim, was killed on July eighth and 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.360 on July twentieth, the police drive the three hours you know, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:48.560 from Las Vegas to Panaka and basically bombard plays in 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:50.320 her home. It's sort of you know, her family home. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.720 Put her in a room, you know, tell her parents 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.640 that they can't be in the room, close the doors, 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.640 and they start interrogating her about what she thinks, as 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.480 you just said, was something that happened two months earlier 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.400 when you were attacked and these this man tried to rape. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:04.840 You, which was self defense exactly. 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.480 And you know when Blaze left the parking lot that 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.960 night and drove off and got away from this man, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.040 the man was standing, you know, he was you know, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.760 I think ripping his groin area and in pain. You know, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.959 maybe there was a struggle, but he was alive, and 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.000 he was, you know, for someone who was going to 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.440 move on from this. The person who was a victim 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.440 in this case that she ultimately gets prosecuted for, was 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.719 brutalized so badly. There is no question that there could 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.760 be a confusion between the man that sexually assaulted her 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.360 and this person who ends up being victimized. He was 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.679 found with his penis completely severed five feet away from 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.600 his body. Both of his eyes were beaten shut to 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.880 the point that no one could even look inside them. 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.280 He had I think something like eighteen or nineteen gashes 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.000 all over his body. He had led out, you know, 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.000 entirely in a garbage dump, and he was completely covered 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.640 by garbage to the point where no one found him 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.800 for probably a few hours. So the scene where this 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.160 person is found is completely different than what Blaze describes 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.679 to the police during that interrogation. And I think one 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.280 of the most incredible things about this case is that 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.600 interrogation is recorded. There is a recording of it, there's 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.240 a transcription of that recording, and so we talk. I'm 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.959 sure you've talked in this podcast before about false confessions 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.480 and the importance of recording statements. The crazy thing here 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.960 is that statement was recorded, the police could review it, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.360 the prosecutors could review it, and the tunnel vision was 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.680 so extreme that they didn't even see She's not talking. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.960 She can't be talking about this assault, this person being killed. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.000 She's talking about something that happened two months before. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.880 What a bizarre set of circumstances. And the reason that 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.400 they came to what was the name of the town again, Panaka? Yeah, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.160 not a place I've ever heard of before. I guess 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.680 most people haven't. But the reason they came there was 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:51.400 because somebody had mentioned to somebody else about you, having 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.360 said to them or a friend about this assault that 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.400 you survived by defending yourself, and they thought, well, if 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.680 this guy was cut with a knife somewhere near the 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.839 groin area, then you must be this crazy killer who 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.960 goes around cutting men's penises off and throwing them on 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.880 the street. I mean, this crime from what it sounds like. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:14.760 I mean, people can't see you on the radio, but 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.800 you're not a giant, imposing figure. It sounds like whoever 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.360 did this was probably a very strong probably a man 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:22.600 can't say that for sure. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.760 But well, you know, it's interesting that you brought that up, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.080 because one of their own experts said that the crime 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.320 itself was inconsistent with a woman, and that, in fact, 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.280 because of the severity of the injuries, they wouldn't be 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.120 surprised if there was more than one perpetrator. 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.960 Well, and actually they overlooked what should have been an 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.280 obvious clue. Do you want to talk about that? 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.080 It's absurd. There was a woman who had actually been 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:52.040 attacked by mister Bailey a week or so before reported it. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.640 It told the police where they could find him, and 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.320 they never did, so if they had, maybe he would 0:12:58.320 --> 0:12:59.040 still be alive. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.400 Most remarkable, I mean a sipham is that the day 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.120 the police where they're investigating and sort of at the scene, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.800 she lived like right behind the dumpster era, there's like 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:15.679 an apartment complex. She comes to the scene and speaks 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.640 with the police officers and oh, is that Durant Bailey 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:23.280 who's dead, and tells them about this past incident with him. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.360 I mean, it's right there for them to look into. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.400 And there was more to that too, right there was. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.040 She also tells the police that she has a number 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.960 of male friends who live kind of with her or 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.600 near her in this apartment complex, and that she had 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.480 told them about this attack, that she had been raped 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.080 by Duran Bailey, and you know that they were upset 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.120 by it and they had actually some of them apparently 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.640 had had issues with mister Bailey in the past. So 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.600 what appears at a crime scene like a crime that 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.280 is committed by at least one man with a weapon, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.640 if not several. I mean, it seems like a gang beating. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.680 Of sorts with a lot of anger, with a lot. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.480 Of anger and a lot of power and a lot 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.280 of blood that somehow does not encourage the police to 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.079 investigate these men and to look into their backgrounds and 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.920 pursue them as suspects. Instead, the case is cold for 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:10.959 two weeks and when they get a phone call saying 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.080 from Panaka saying there's a girl up here talking about 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.240 an injury with the penis, They drive up there get 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.640 what they consider to be a confession, and that's it. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.200 Did they never even talk to these three guys? No? 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.360 I mean, they claim that they made some cursory efforts 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.400 to look into their background, but they never spoke with them, 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:30.000 and there's. 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.560 No proof that they actually did that, right. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.240 I mean, granted, maybe they didn't, maybe they didn't treat 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.160 it as a super high priority because he was a 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.200 homeless guy. But this was a vicious, terrible, gruesome crime 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.920 that it's not illogical to think that if someone has 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.600 the capability or some people have the capability of doing 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.200 that to this homeless man, he's probably not going to 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:51.160 be the last victim. 0:14:51.200 --> 0:15:04.880 Absolutely, And when you think about all of the harms 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.200 that are compounded in this case, right, like, not only 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.520 was Blaize victimized two months before this, and she it 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.080 was you managed to escape, but you know, only by 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.600 her own strength and determination, not because of help by 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.520 the police. You then have this woman who's actually raped 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.200 by mister Bailey, the person who ultimately is killed and 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.920 the victim in this case, and the police never pursue him, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:25.600 you know, and never go after him or try to 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.280 prosecute him against hers, and then he ends up falling. 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.440 Victim to vigilant, just exactly. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.000 Because that's what has to step in to fix it. 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.120 So at no point did anybody in law enforcement get anything, right, 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:38.160 is that fair to say? 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:39.000 That's fair to say. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.120 And meanwhile you're in the center of this and you 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.800 don't even know what the fuck is going on. 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:44.160 No, And. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.880 The more along the way we found more and more 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.320 and more things out At the first trial, there were 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.520 so many things that weren't available to us. We didn't 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.720 know that there was pubic hairs found. We didn't know 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.080 that there was a rape kit dona and that none 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.600 of it had been tested. We didn't know that he 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.320 had cards in his pocket that indicate that he was 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.000 a police informant. We didn't know these things. 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.960 Wow, this is getting deeper and deeper, right. 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.080 So, I mean there was plenty of avenues for them 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.760 to pursue to investigate, and they did not. 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.200 Wow, so strange. I mean, it just doesn't And then 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.520 they just decide to drive three hours when all they 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.840 had to do was go next door. Instead of going 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.720 next door, they drove three hours and found you. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.440 And it gets worse because you can clearly see the 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:37.960 malice behind their actions. It's illustrated very well in the 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:43.520 second trial when Detective thousand lied on the stand claiming 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:49.240 that his secretary did the investigation. We had no idea. 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.320 But it turns out detectives don't have secretaries, So who 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:59.160 did the investigation? Nobody exactly exactly and. 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.960 We don't even know which investigation which as well as 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.720 who knows well there was none, so it doesn't really matter. 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.920 He could have been refright to anything, right, but. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.880 At the second trial we didn't have that information. There 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:10.560 was no way for us because when you're not a 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.639 part of their system, you don't know how it works. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.199 You don't know what they have and what they don't have, 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:18.840 So how do you defend yourself against that? 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.800 I just it's it's so difficult for me to understand 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.480 why they would want to victimize a victim. Right, you're 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.359 a victim. I mean even we were a victim your 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.520 whole life to this point. They knew that, right. It's 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.720 just so it's so weird to me how the morality 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.360 breaks down so totally. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.719 I think one thing in this case is, you know, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.040 Blaize wasn't living in Las Vegas. She was living three 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.560 hours north in a tiny town, which I think in 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.960 the trial got painted as a place that's really different 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.160 from where we live in Las Vegas. You know, listen 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.680 jury members to what I'm saying. She's not one of us. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.400 She's from a different place, and she's a teenager. We're 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.959 going to paint her as wild and drug addicted and 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.080 different and the kind of person that we don't want 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.800 in our community. I think the prosecution did a really effective, 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:07.360 evil job of painting her as this wild child who 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.159 we just want to make sure we can punish and 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.400 keep off our streets. And there was a lot of othering, 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.040 and that's a huge part of I think what the 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.800 criminal justice system does generally is to make people seem 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.240 like Pariah's when you know, in fact, she was never 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.679 investigated and they didn't look clearly into the case. But 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.359 I think she was really hurt by the fact that 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.240 she wasn't from Las Vegas, and they knew about her 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.080 drug issues at the time and were able to just 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.679 use that as a character assassination as opposed to an 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:32.560 actual prosecution. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.879 Do you think that the prosecutor knew that he was 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:37.000 prosecuting a cent woman? 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.199 Absolutely, and in fact, I'm not the first person that 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:39.800 he did it too. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:45.000 And their theory at trial was that Blaize left Panaka 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.720 in the early morning hours ago find drugs. She went 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.640 all the way to Las Vegas to do that, which 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:51.640 is three hours away. 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:53.760 Because there's nowhere in between Panaca and right so you could. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.560 Get drub and that, of all the places in Las 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.320 Vegas to get drugs, she went to this behind the 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.639 bank across the street from the Palms Hotel, which is 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.919 like off the street. It exist, it didn't even it's 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.200 actually being built at the time. And then she met 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.920 this man who she's never met. I mean, this was uncontract. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.800 There were strangers. She meets this guy, mister Bailey, and 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.159 mister Bailey in exchange for drugs, wanted a sexual favor, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.320 and that Blaze flipped out and cut his penis off 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.719 and killed him. Brutally murdered him, then hopped into her 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.879 car and high tailed it back to Panaka three hours away. 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:30.919 When I was there a thing and no one, no 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.600 one in their office, was like, hmm, does this make sense? 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.720 Maybe this is not quite right. 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.199 Maybe there should be some blood in the car, or 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.479 there should be some leather evidence of biological level. This 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:43.320 is just not how people. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.000 This is insane, Like no one does this, and that 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.719 maybe there's someone else who lives in Las Vegas who 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.960 committed this car and maybe that's a more likely explanation 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.439 for what happened. I mean, that's what you do as 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.600 a lawyer, right, You look at a case, you analyze 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.880 the faction, think what makes sense, what doesn't make sense. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.439 And they're the prosecution. They don't have to go to 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.359 trial in these cases. They chose to go to trial 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:06.359 on these sets of facts, like their job is to 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.359 do justice. They don't inherent cases like defense attorneys and 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.639 have to defend someone to make best what they do. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.080 They choose the theory they go forward with. And the 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.919