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Speaker 1: The Hunting Collective is presented by Element. I guess I

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Speaker 1: grew up. Hey, everybody, Welcome to another episode The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I am Benjamin Patrick O'Brien. We are made it all

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Speaker 1: the way to episode one fifty two and I have COVID. Uh. Phil,

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Speaker 1: we've not talked about this yet. What are you? Why

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Speaker 1: are you worried? Are you what? What are you feeling

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Speaker 1: right now? I'm not particularly worried because I think what

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Speaker 1: you started feeling kind of ill a while ago, right,

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Speaker 1: But things haven't gotten like horrible, have they? Yeah, they'd

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Speaker 1: have been fun, not horrible, like a bad flu. You know.

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Speaker 1: I just figured my brush with Joe Lene might have

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Speaker 1: cost some some sort of illness. Um. Yeah, the first

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Speaker 1: of edit sex Muffins year old sex Muffins from last episode.

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Speaker 1: I figured that might have been the reason for the illness.

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Speaker 1: But now it turns out that Thursday I went in

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Speaker 1: and they tested me, and they said, you got the cocoa,

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Speaker 1: you got the rhona. Uh, you better go quarantine it up.

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Speaker 1: So I've been literally in the same bedroom in my

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Speaker 1: house since Thursday night. And I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: what day is it. It could be any day and

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Speaker 1: there's no way for me. It doesn't matter. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: and one thing I've learned is my wife said, how's

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Speaker 1: your vacation? In there, I said, there is a fine

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Speaker 1: line between vacation and prison. In this case, Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: more like prison on day five. So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Used me as always used me as a cautionary tale.

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Speaker 1: I don't don't go to the Missouri breaks. Try to

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Speaker 1: hunt me there. You might get the cocoa UM. But

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Speaker 1: in all seriousness, I have I've had some bad days,

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Speaker 1: some good days, some some relatively kind of uneasy times

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Speaker 1: with it. Move into my lung is a couple of

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Speaker 1: days ago. So you know, it's not been fun. It's

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Speaker 1: harder on the family, it's hard on everything. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling you anybody what to do, but just

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Speaker 1: know my experiences. This is not a not a virus

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Speaker 1: for UH to mess around with. It's not something to

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Speaker 1: take lightly. And no matter what you might hear on

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Speaker 1: the news, it shouldn't be politicized. You should just try

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Speaker 1: to avoid it and try to avoid giving it to

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Speaker 1: everybody else. Because I'm telling I'm on day nine, UM's

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Speaker 1: not feeling great. So various levels of not feeling great,

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Speaker 1: but um, I'm here to give you a podcast that's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a good one, right Phil. You know, I

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Speaker 1: I think that because you're in here, you've got you've

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Speaker 1: got COVID nineteen, and you're still determined enough to make

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Speaker 1: a show. I think it's gonna be a good one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel, you know, And this is a good time

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Speaker 1: to actually cry for sympathy and virtue signal and tell

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Speaker 1: and see if what I can get out of this deal, um,

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Speaker 1: other than the many vitamins my wife is shoving under

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Speaker 1: the door, the crack in the door every about every

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes. Um, so you know, all whatever I can

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Speaker 1: get from the sympathy, please, you know, cards, flowers, donations

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Speaker 1: to to uh some sort of should we set up

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Speaker 1: some sort of like go fund me account? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think just put your personal venmo account up. Don't

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Speaker 1: don't tell anyone where the money is going to end

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Speaker 1: up going, because it doesn't matter. It's no just just

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Speaker 1: Venmo been O'Brien, whatever you can get him. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you send the money wisely. Yeah, you don't worry. Was

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Speaker 1: like that. When I'm in Tijuana next week, you'll know why. Um, Well,

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Speaker 1: we got a lot to get to today and all that.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, life joke around, but in all seriousness,

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Speaker 1: coronavirus ain't fun and I'm not having fun in any

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Speaker 1: way shape or for him doing it. But we'll try

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Speaker 1: to have a little fun with you guys for one

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Speaker 1: fifty two, Uh, Doug during the Great and Powerful dug

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Speaker 1: During is coming up. We're gonna talk about all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things, music tastes, the back, forty, working on land farming,

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a farmer in the modern age,

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Speaker 1: and then a little bit on on game cooperatives and

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Speaker 1: what they can mean in the future. To stick stay

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Speaker 1: for duck Dern the email inbox Phill has been hopping, dude.

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Speaker 1: I have been very happy with the effort in the

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Speaker 1: email inbox lately, so thank you to everybody that emailed

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Speaker 1: in over the last couple of weeks. All of them

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Speaker 1: are long, and all of them are thoughtful, and all

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Speaker 1: of them are well written. So keep it coming out there.

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Speaker 1: But we got a lot to get to you, but

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Speaker 1: I will start. I want to start with one from Haze. Hell. Now,

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Speaker 1: how would you say this? H e I L He'll

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Speaker 1: hail hail. You think like as in the Hitler variety.

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Speaker 1: Hyle hyle, He's not He must not be a long

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Speaker 1: time listener because he didn't put it. He didn't put

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Speaker 1: in the pronunciation in his email. Um but, Hayes says,

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you and Phil for entertaining me

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Speaker 1: at work for a few hours a week by both

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Speaker 1: making me laugh as well as embracing some tough to

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Speaker 1: talk about topics that can really make me critically think

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Speaker 1: about the ethical and moral responsibility we have as hunters

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Speaker 1: and outdoorsman. Although my dad is a big hunter, growing up,

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Speaker 1: I spent very little time entertaining the idea of hunting

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Speaker 1: due to competitive sports and complete lack of interest. Now

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Speaker 1: that'll do it. However, since graduating college and calling it

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Speaker 1: quits on my athletic career, I've decided to pick up

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Speaker 1: hunting and fishing to fill the quote unquote void and

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Speaker 1: occupy my free time. I moved to Denver after graduating college,

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Speaker 1: which has made picking up these hobbies very easy, as

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Speaker 1: it seems like we are on the doorstep of everything

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Speaker 1: that hunting and fishing in the wild West has to offer. Um,

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Speaker 1: I just move on a little bit, he says. Because

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Speaker 1: of this, I have been pouring myself into books, videos,

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Speaker 1: podcasts to learn as much about what I hope to

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Speaker 1: eventually be doing, so that I have a thoughtful and

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Speaker 1: well educated approach to hunting and why I do it.

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Speaker 1: I also live near downtown Denver due to as proximity

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Speaker 1: to my office, so things like hunting can be a

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Speaker 1: bit taboo around these parts and ways. I was listening

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Speaker 1: to your most recent podcast with Robbie Kroger. I came

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Speaker 1: up with a few questions and thoughts. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: run buy you as one of those residents of Denver

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Speaker 1: that you talked about and to two to recap for

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Speaker 1: folks that um maybe didn't listen last week or our

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Speaker 1: needy little recap. Robbie and I were talking about how

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Speaker 1: you know, political lines not only affect elections, but they

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Speaker 1: affect they affect the ballot box biology and specifically in

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Speaker 1: terms of wolves in Colorado with the ballot initiative that

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Speaker 1: was one fourteen proper one fourteen that was on the

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Speaker 1: ballot this year and passed to reintroduce wolves into the

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Speaker 1: state of Colorado. Again the idea that most of the

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Speaker 1: state is read, but small pockets of high population centers

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Speaker 1: like Denver Colorado springs are blue. Um seemed to have

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Speaker 1: tipped Prop One fourteen in favor of having wolves coming back.

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Speaker 1: Um but Hey says, I came up with a few questions.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I completely agree with you and Robbie

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Speaker 1: that this proposition has no place even being on the ballot.

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Speaker 1: This decision seems like something that should be made by

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Speaker 1: the biologists at CPW, not the general public, who was

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Speaker 1: largely uninformed on the on the subject. In contrast, Secondly,

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Speaker 1: I think I should note that this is an incredible

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Speaker 1: herd incredibly hard proposition for me on which to vote.

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Speaker 1: But I felt that it was my duty to come

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Speaker 1: back with a decision on this to get this out

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Speaker 1: of the way. I voted yes on proper and fourteen.

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Speaker 1: My reasoning for voting yes relied on a few things

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Speaker 1: I found in my research. One, gray wolves were at

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Speaker 1: one point native of Colorado, and as an overreaching theme

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Speaker 1: of conservation, it seems to me that having gray wolves

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Speaker 1: returned to Colorado is quote unquote doing right by nature. Two,

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Speaker 1: Although CPW seems reluctant to admit it, it's widely known

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Speaker 1: that a small group of wolves have migrated down to

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Speaker 1: northwest Colorado, from the greater Adeostone ecosystem naturally and supplementing

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Speaker 1: this population cannot be a bad thing. The language of

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Speaker 1: the proposition is confusing, but ultimately this is not a

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Speaker 1: yes or no on wolves in Colorado. Immediately passing prop

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Speaker 1: One fourteen forces CPW to come up with a plane

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Speaker 1: to reintroduce them, which may be forcing the issue a bit.

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Speaker 1: He's a little bit long with stick with us, he says.

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Speaker 1: This brings me to my questions and thoughts. I know

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that media just supports this, but I believe

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Speaker 1: that will should be in Colorado, whether I yuppie from

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Speaker 1: Denver ever see them or not, as they are historical

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Speaker 1: part of the state. I agree with you that I

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Speaker 1: sympathized with sympathize with farmers in northwest Colorado as wolves

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Speaker 1: are a vicious species that will kill their livestock without

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Speaker 1: second thought. Also, as a member of Colorado Elk Hunting

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Speaker 1: Facebook group, I saw overwhelming displeasure with Proper one fourteen,

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Speaker 1: as wolves would kill all of our elk and that

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Speaker 1: it's already hard enough to kill big game here as

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Speaker 1: it is. I am aware of the repercussions of wolves

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Speaker 1: and their effect on servits, as well as the battle

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Speaker 1: that recreating a public lands can be. But isn't big

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Speaker 1: games hunting supposed to be hard. Isn't that the whole

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Speaker 1: point that you spend all of this time and effort

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Speaker 1: to harvest this animal for you and your family to enjoy,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it just doesn't happen. Colorado has the largest

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Speaker 1: population of elk in the US. Wouldn't it be all

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Speaker 1: right to potentially lose some of those to bring back

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Speaker 1: a native species at the cost of some hunters not

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Speaker 1: getting an elk? And he goes on, but hey, he's

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Speaker 1: had some good questions, some good things to bring up. Um,

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Speaker 1: let me just start. Let me start by saying, I

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Speaker 1: believe um what you're saying. You're the reasoning that you're using.

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Speaker 1: While it may be sound pays, there's no way for

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Speaker 1: you to know unless you go drive over across the

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Speaker 1: Continental divide and and over to where the wolves would

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Speaker 1: be hanging out and find yourself a rancher to talk to,

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Speaker 1: or somebody that manages a large track or small track

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Speaker 1: of land that has livestock or wild mulde or elk

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Speaker 1: that they'd like to keep on that landscape. It's hard

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Speaker 1: for you, even if you've done research. You listen to

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Speaker 1: podcasts like this one, it's hard for you to really

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Speaker 1: have a perspective of what it means to live with wolves.

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Speaker 1: It just is. It's not your fault. It's nobody's fault.

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Speaker 1: The dichotomy, the difference between the Grand Canyon sized gap

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Speaker 1: between what it means to vote yes based on the

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Speaker 1: reasons that you did, and what it means to vote

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Speaker 1: no based on the reasons that most of the right

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Speaker 1: cleaning ranchers out there and Kylorado might vote. Um is.

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Speaker 1: It's tough to understand, but living around wolves is so

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Speaker 1: much harder than it is, especially when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: reintroducing them. So when it was that argument is gonna

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Speaker 1: fall flat with somebody who owns land, it's gonna fall

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Speaker 1: flat with somebody who manages cattle. It's gonna fall flat

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Speaker 1: with someone who has to balance these populations. And as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, that's why I'm against having these types of

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Speaker 1: ballant initiatives out there for people to vote on. I

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Speaker 1: think the North American amount of conservation, I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I know the North American mount of the conservation doesn't

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Speaker 1: allow for citizen based biology to come into play. We

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Speaker 1: trust our biologists and the scientists and the state game

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Speaker 1: management agencies to do this work for us on our behalf.

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Speaker 1: We can challenge that certainly in the public or private

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Speaker 1: forum if we wish, but that's how we've enacted game

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Speaker 1: management in our space. But again I will tell you, Hayes,

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Speaker 1: that there is almost no way unless you go find

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Speaker 1: somebody and and really hear them out for you to

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Speaker 1: understand they am the real impacts that this has on

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Speaker 1: on people in the ranching community that there's I've talked

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Speaker 1: to them. I just had um an uh close encounter

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Speaker 1: with wolves taking down cattle and the place where I hunt,

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Speaker 1: and I was able to think about the U. S d.

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Speaker 1: A Aphist trappers that have to come in then possibly

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Speaker 1: trap these wolves or kill these wolves, UM, the ranchers

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Speaker 1: who lose money and then have to go to the state,

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Speaker 1: UM or the federal government to get reparations for the

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Speaker 1: loss of cattle. And so this is twisted up. It's

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Speaker 1: not as easy as yes, I want wolves back their

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Speaker 1: native to this landscape, and then you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: raison your way into wolves in terms of hunting them

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Speaker 1: hunters and hunting itself. I I would imagine the impact

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Speaker 1: to elk herds is probably the least of the worries

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Speaker 1: to start. Um, but I'm I'm glad. I'm very glad

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Speaker 1: that that the the one fourteen has a lot of

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Speaker 1: provisions to protect ranchers financially, and it also has a

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Speaker 1: lot of provisions for public comment throughout a three year

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Speaker 1: process that will get us to having wolves back in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: I as I said last week with Robbie, I want

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Speaker 1: wolves in Colorado. Um, I want them there, but I

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Speaker 1: don't I'm not blind to the fact that there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that don't want them there, and

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Speaker 1: they don't want them there for really good reasons. It

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Speaker 1: is hard to cohabitate with wolves. They are meat machines.

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Speaker 1: They are meat processors with four legs. They do not

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Speaker 1: think about blog game management when they are taken down

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Speaker 1: the food that they need to survive, and sometimes that

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Speaker 1: the food they don't need to survive. So lots going

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Speaker 1: into it will continue to discuss it. Fil Do you

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Speaker 1: have anything from a non hunters point of view here? Uh? No,

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Speaker 1: not at all. Do you have you ever seen wolves

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Speaker 1: around Montana? I'm trying to think. I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: seen I don't think i've seen wolves. I don't think

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Speaker 1: i've seen a wolf in the wild. Wolf. Yeah, as

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Speaker 1: I've said on the podcast before, the spot that I

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Speaker 1: hunt south of my house here where there's plenty of

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Speaker 1: wolves around, plenty of wolf sign heard them, seen him

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Speaker 1: on trail camera, see their tracks, seeing their ship, all

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Speaker 1: of it. There, they're they're hanging out in the strange

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Speaker 1: where I hunt. As I drive north back to town

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Speaker 1: from my hunting spot where there is wolves, there's a

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Speaker 1: big billboard that says stop trapping wolves, you know, stop

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Speaker 1: the violence or stop the suffering. Oh yeah, on the way, Uh,

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Speaker 1: just Gallaton Canyon right there. I know what you're talking

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Speaker 1: about exactly. So it's it's funny how these and then

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Speaker 1: talking to a U. S. D Aphist trapper who potentially

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Speaker 1: has to come in based on some evidence that I

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Speaker 1: gave him from my trail cameras and trap some of

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Speaker 1: these wolves so they stopped killing these cattle. Um, the

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Speaker 1: the the iron. He's not lost on me there that

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Speaker 1: there are really two different sides to this particular and

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's no different than grizzly bears. There are

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Speaker 1: two different sides I think to these particular arguments and

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Speaker 1: it certainly goes well beyond Hey, if you hunt, just

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Speaker 1: eat it. Um. This goes well beyond that, UM in

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Speaker 1: terms of how we look at it. So we'll keep

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Speaker 1: talking about it. UM. Appreciate the thoughtful email, Hayes, and man,

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Speaker 1: you're not wrong. Um. Nobody here's gonna say that you're

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Speaker 1: wrong for for voting the way that you did. But

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Speaker 1: I would say that it's important for you to find,

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Speaker 1: maybe wherever you can, some perspective of someone who will

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Speaker 1: actually be dealing with these animals on a day to

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Speaker 1: day basis, because you will not, admittedly, So so seek

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Speaker 1: those people out, find their perspective and see if they

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Speaker 1: can educate you a little bit and what what they'll

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Speaker 1: be dealing with and why they would vote no UM

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Speaker 1: for Prop One fourteen, which was an extremely close vote,

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Speaker 1: I mean extremely close vote in Colorado. So onto something

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Speaker 1: a little more lighthearted. Phil our friend a b Rich

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Speaker 1: remember a be Rich? Yeah? He uh, he contributed to

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Speaker 1: the draw Phil contest. I feel like he had was

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Speaker 1: he that the hand turkey guy? I'm no, this is

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Speaker 1: not the hand turkey guy? Okay, I'm trying to think

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Speaker 1: of like Greg Morris. There's so many favorite teach the

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Speaker 1: listeners that are in the cult. And we haven't decided

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Speaker 1: on the cult name yet, but I'm still leaning that way. Um,

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Speaker 1: but so many cult members and what a B. Rich

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Speaker 1: drew a one of full version of you. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I have it. I'm getting ready to hanging in the

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Speaker 1: new THHC office here at my house. It's a wonderful

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Speaker 1: version of you looking very handsome from earlier this year

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Speaker 1: in our episode one giveaway. But a B he came correct,

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Speaker 1: he created and he beautifully photographed, by the way like

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Speaker 1: professionally photographed the salty Vegan, and he created the the

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Speaker 1: wonderful presentation. He has all the right in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: all the right ingredients. Um, so you know, round of applause,

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Speaker 1: Fill round of applause for I'm gonna need you to

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Speaker 1: do some clapping. Yep. Thanks round of applause for our

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Speaker 1: friend A by Rich. And thanks to the folks at

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Speaker 1: element as always drink element t dot com slash meat

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Speaker 1: eater for sponsoring this year program and the title position

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Speaker 1: and making sure we can do what we do. So

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Speaker 1: just like a B go over there to drink element

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Speaker 1: te dot com slash meat eater, get yourself Elements some

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Speaker 1: electual like drink mixed keep you keep you hydrated. Now

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Speaker 1: I've been drinking a lot of secon. Are you gonna

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Speaker 1: are you gonna share the goods? What's the what's the Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's coming, it's coming to got to do the business.

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Speaker 1: Got to do the business. But it's coming. Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: a wonderful photo, and I'll show. I haven't shared the

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Speaker 1: photo with you, but I will. Um of his kitchen

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Speaker 1: with a cutting board, and so he starts off with

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Speaker 1: he's got like one of them, you know, real hipster

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Speaker 1: Mason jars that people drink out of. You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about, Phil Oh, yeah, of course, of course

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Speaker 1: you do. Um. He has started with a rim He's

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Speaker 1: rimmed it with some uh some element recharge and crumbled bacon.

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Speaker 1: So he's taken some of the salt from the element

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Speaker 1: recharged and some crumbled bacon and rimmed the glass with that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He has garnished that with a pickle. Uh. I can't say.

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Speaker 1: It looks like a little dill pickle as a garnish.

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Speaker 1: He has then mixed together vodka, a third path of

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Speaker 1: the element lime flavor club soda. He says, quote, I

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Speaker 1: hate because I hate white claw, but you can choose

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Speaker 1: any white claw flavor you want. And then he's mixed

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Speaker 1: that altogether with the bacon and made what he calls

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Speaker 1: the salty vegan. Wow, you got the in the Vodkas titos,

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Speaker 1: which I which I like being a former representing Texas. There,

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Speaker 1: Well done, a bey Rich, well done. Um. That all

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Speaker 1: comes from if you don't, if you're if you forget back.

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Speaker 1: A few episodes ago only had the Great Leader of

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Speaker 1: Anonymous for the voiceless Paul Baser on which people, by

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Speaker 1: the way, are I get daily emails of people just

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Speaker 1: still banging on Paul the sheer um. So we might

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Speaker 1: still have that. We might have to have him back

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Speaker 1: on and see if he'll drink a salty Vegan with me.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the bacon might not. He might

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Speaker 1: have to not have the bacon on there. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think they're there are other plant based uh you know

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Speaker 1: options he could go with? Sure, sure plant based? Is

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Speaker 1: there plant based bacon? There's guy to be come on?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean what about being crazy? Of course

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Speaker 1: you're you're the guy who went to the vegan butcher shop. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course they have play at Basic Bacon bits for sure. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's many many varieties that you can find

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Speaker 1: your local store. But anyway, thanks to A. B. Rich

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Speaker 1: for creating the Salty Vegan. I will post the ingredients

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Speaker 1: and the photos on my Insta story in case you

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Speaker 1: guys want to go make them. I would say, if

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Speaker 1: you're in my position, or if you're locked in the

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Speaker 1: bedroom and nothing to do, make away and drink away.

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Speaker 1: Because I have actually been drinking a lot of element

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Speaker 1: during my stay in the room here. It's working out

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Speaker 1: pretty good. So thank you to those folks keep me

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Speaker 1: hydrated and keep me alive um during COVID times. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: so moving on one more time. This one uh has

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Speaker 1: a little bit to do with my illness. But our

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Speaker 1: guy Vincent shoff So s c h a double F shop, Phil,

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Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, that's that's a tough It's either

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Speaker 1: shop or shape for sure, stop shape for sure. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling shock, he says, Hey, Ben, I was laid

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Speaker 1: up in bed listening to your latest podcast. I'm one

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Speaker 1: of the human trial people for one of the COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen vaccine. I love it. I like how he described it.

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Speaker 1: I'm one of the human trial people for one of

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Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen. Hey listen, man, Vincent, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to get that vaccine. Can't wait to

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Speaker 1: get out of this here room and have a normal

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Speaker 1: life again. So keep on doing what you do. He said.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't actually sick from the virus or vaccine, but

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Speaker 1: had passed out while giving blood, which unfortunately happens about

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Speaker 1: one and ten times for me. So I had tuned

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Speaker 1: into the podcast while recovering. So first, I hope you're

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Speaker 1: not sick. Well, unfortunately I am sick. But moving on

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Speaker 1: to probably more important things, he said, Second, onto politics.

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Speaker 1: I support your freedom of speech. My best friend in

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Speaker 1: the world as a Republican. I'm an independent who usually

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Speaker 1: votes Democrat, and I did this year. My buddy Jr.

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Speaker 1: Is not a racist or a white nationalist or any

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Speaker 1: of those things alone into Trump supporters, and I am

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Speaker 1: a liberal. I am a hunter. I love shooting. I

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Speaker 1: can carry concealed But I also became a minister to

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Speaker 1: assist my friends who are gay so they could get married.

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Speaker 1: J R. And I used to be on the board

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Speaker 1: for an inner city football and cheer team in Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: We worked side by side to coach and mentor the

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Speaker 1: mostly black kids to keep them off the streets, out

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Speaker 1: of gangs, and stay in school. We have never let

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Speaker 1: our political differences divide us. We do. We do talk

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Speaker 1: about it a lot, we don't get angry, and both

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Speaker 1: understand why we vote the way we do. We also

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Speaker 1: understand the weaknesses of the current leadership on both sides.

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Speaker 1: Is Biden perfect no way, But for me he was

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Speaker 1: a lesser of two evils anyway. I write all this

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Speaker 1: to say, keep Foster in the dialogue. I think both

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Speaker 1: sides are closer than the media wants us to be.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in wisconsint went to college and lived

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Speaker 1: in Florida, and worked in New Jersey, Connecticut and now Colorado,

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Speaker 1: and I get why people feel disenfranchised. I can understand

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Speaker 1: their frustration of ranchers in Wyoming who feel like their

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Speaker 1: voice isn't heard or that policy is being dictated by

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Speaker 1: California New York. I can see why some people want

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Speaker 1: to abolish electoral college and rely on the popular vote.

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Speaker 1: I can see why others are afraid that if it happens,

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Speaker 1: the states with small populations will feel their voices won't

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Speaker 1: ever be heard again. Keep up the good work. I've

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Speaker 1: learned a lot from you and th h c Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I have a big that that's

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Speaker 1: just an uplifting email field that I felt I should

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Speaker 1: read to everybody. Um Obviously, Vincent, I feel the same

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Speaker 1: way you feel, shades of gray and all um with

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Speaker 1: each all of us. And I've been avoiding the news

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Speaker 1: media while locked in this bedroom, and it feels really

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Speaker 1: good to not have to watch any of that ship

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Speaker 1: and not have to have my fears and insecurities tweaked

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Speaker 1: by people where and suits on the TV. This feels

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Speaker 1: really nice just to look at this box room around

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Speaker 1: me and not have to deal with that. But I

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Speaker 1: do appreciate your listening, and I appreciate the thoughts about

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Speaker 1: what divides us and what doesn't, because I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: more brings us together than divides us. I'll be a

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Speaker 1: broken record on that, and if that's what being in

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Speaker 1: THHC Cults all about, well stick with us, because we're

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Speaker 1: gonna keep doing it. Um, phil any or any thoughts

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Speaker 1: to bring the nation together during this time, I'll share

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Speaker 1: a story about something that that brought me together with

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Speaker 1: some people. Okay, do you remember a few episodes ago.

427
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: When you know, I made kind of like a just

428
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: a call into the void, you know, saying, hey, hit

429
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: me up on Instagram, play some video games with me. No,

430
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: this did not happen. Oh yeah, many so shout out

431
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: to the colts. Uh, I guess we're settling on that, um,

432
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: the CC cult. Yeah no, I got. I got many responses,

433
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: and I've been playing Destiny to almost nightly with some

434
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: THHC with a TC listener. He's great, he's he's he's

435
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: a really good, good guy to play with. Um, it's

436
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: it's it's been a lot of fun. I don't know

437
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: who we voted for. It doesn't matter. We are. We

438
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: came together to be an American but no, because when

439
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: we when we go into the Tangled shore and shoot

440
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: aliens in the face, it doesn't matter our political views.

441
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: And anyway, stand up Phil, stand up for America. Yeah. So,

442
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, thanks, thanks a lot to everyone who who

443
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: got ahold of me. It's been it's been a lot

444
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: of fun. It's a little thing to make me happy.

445
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: Feeling that is that makes that brings me great, great

446
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: great joy. Yep, right there, Well, thank you, Brandon, just

447
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: brand have a last name or do you guys, just

448
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: is the video game world? Do you just like give

449
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: first names? Well, so you actually, I mean it's kind

450
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: of uh, it's it's it's common courtesy. Courtesy is the

451
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: right word. It's just usually call them by their video

452
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: game handle. So so mine is Desmond the Cat, and

453
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: his and his is Horror Biz and some numbers. So

454
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: you know you should call it like horror, like a

455
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: horror movie. So you know you can call him Horror.

456
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: People call me Desmond. You know, it's it's normal. It's

457
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: just normal behavior. This is this seems fine. Uh well

458
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: everything just seems as good to me. All right, Well

459
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: speak in a normal behavior. This week's not So Sharp

460
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: Moment is on tap. Play the jingle Phil word not

461
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: so Sharp Moment shop, So you don't have to alright,

462
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: we'll check quickly in uh with a poop store. It's

463
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: not that many you're coming in. And so thank you

464
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: to the Colts for hanging in there and listening to Phil.

465
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for playing video games with Phil. I it's gonna

466
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: take me a while to come down off that one. Phil.

467
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: That was fantastic. Shout out to you. What's it? What

468
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: is it? Desmond the Cat? Desmond the cat. Does that

469
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: have some kind of meaning or did you just make

470
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: that up? Now? Whence? I was I have you ever

471
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: watched Lost, Ben, the the ABC show Lost? You know,

472
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: I never did watch that. There's a very great character

473
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: named Desmond introduced in season two. I was watching Lost

474
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: at the time I made the name, and I was like,

475
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: you know, if they ever got a cat, I'd name

476
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: him Desmond. And then this is a this is a

477
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: really interesting story. I'm sure the listeners are just on

478
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: the edge of their seats range well apparently so apparently

479
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: the guys like Brandon or are hanging out. I think

480
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: maybe th HC has caused uh even amount of growth

481
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: and hunting, Like it's a net zero because the amount

482
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 1: of people that we have inspired to hunt has been

483
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: zeroed out now by the amount of people you've inspired

484
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: to play video games more often. I apologize that. I

485
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: guess thanks for that. Yeah, so we got a really quick,

486
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: uh pretty hilarious not a sharp moment. This one comes

487
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: from our buddy Rob. I'm not gonna say Rob's last name,

488
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: and you'll find out why you're in a minute. He says, Uh, Ben,

489
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: I have not a sharp moment for you, although it

490
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: kind of worked out well in the end. There we

491
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: were Spring of two thousand and seven, two college roommates

492
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: with Michigan turkey tags in hand, so jack to have

493
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: those tags. So jacked in fact, that somehow we forgot

494
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: that our university was hosting a college softball game on

495
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: the day we were supposed to leave for our hunt.

496
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: The problem being that my roommate and I were employees

497
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: of the university grounds crew that was a signed to

498
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: work the game and care for the field. You know,

499
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: what you would normally do fill in this case is

500
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: go to your job, go to work, you know, go

501
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: care for this field for these lovely softball uh individuals.

502
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: But he says, disappointed and not sure what to do,

503
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: we looked for wisdom in a cheap bottle of whiskey. Wisdom,

504
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: he said, wisdoms was found. That's around ten pm the

505
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: night before we were just to leave. We decided that

506
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: we would not be needed if the softball game were

507
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: to be canceled. Oh no, oh boy. We raced to

508
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,239
Speaker 1: the mainten shed, grabbed a few hoses and hooked up

509
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: the spickets near the field. We stretched all the hoses

510
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: to the field and let him rip while we returned

511
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: to our dorm for some shut eye. Four am our

512
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: alarms rang and we returned to the softball diamond, which

513
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: now resembles a wetland. I must note that there had

514
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: not been rained in the area for a while, so

515
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: no chance that anyone would believe Mother Nature could have

516
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: been responsible for this new pond. We returned the hoses

517
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: and sprinted off to the Turkey Woods. Around ten a m.

518
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: We receive a call from the grounds manager letting us

519
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: know that we would not be needed for the game

520
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: and it was being relocated to a beauty full new

521
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: local sports complex. We in return, had a fabulous hunt

522
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: and put down to terrific Tom's the softball Gal's got

523
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,719
Speaker 1: the opportunity to play a high end sports complex that

524
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: they would never have gotten to play at. So you're welcome, ladies,

525
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: play the jingle word not so sharp moments. So if

526
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: you don't have me alright, Phil, I felt like this

527
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: might be controversial. Do you feel like this is a

528
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: controversial act? By Bye, Rob, it's explained you explained your reasoning. Well,

529
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean he could have just done his job and

530
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: then hunted the next I mean, how long does softball

531
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: games go? Man? Like? You know, sofa a couple of hours,

532
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 1: clean up the field. When you're done, get out there

533
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: about noon. Given that you that you can hunt, man,

534
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can hunt in the eatings

535
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: for turkeys from Michigan. Often states don't allow that. I mean, yeah,

536
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: if I'd say it was a bad call for sure.

537
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: But the thing is he's recognizing that, uh by writing

538
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: into this here program. Anyway, We're gonna we'll we'll let

539
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: you here at the cult. We like to let people

540
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: in no matter what, and we are going to chide

541
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: you probably forever rob about this, but we are also

542
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: going to give you a work sharp field sharpener more

543
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: reluctantly than most people. But we're gonna give it to

544
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: you anyway, um, only because you were honest with us.

545
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: And hopefully now you feel better about yourself. Hopefully some

546
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: guilt has been lifted off of off of your shoulders.

547
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: He got this out there. There's poor poor softball players. Yeah, yeah,

548
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: actually been the more I think about it, I feel

549
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: like we're because a lot of these not so sharp moments.

550
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: I'd say generally it's like it's because it's like their fault,

551
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: but it's it's not this This seems like it was

552
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: an irresponsible choice that that had a bad effect on others.

553
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: So you know, I the you know, the more think

554
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: about it, I'm and should we reward him for for

555
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: this behavior? Uh? I you know, I'm already too deep.

556
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: I already said I do point like thirty seconds ago.

557
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: It's not like we can edit it out or anything. No,

558
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: this is live. This is live. We do this live. So, um,

559
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: he's gonna get a work sharp field sharpener because I

560
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: have this whole stack of them. You know, maybe I'll

561
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: write a little nasty note on on it, you know,

562
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: like get it together, Rob Okay, I like that. And

563
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: also you know, I did you do any stupid things

564
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: in college that you can remember? Oh? Definitely, yeah. I

565
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: mean I like to think it didn't. You know, it

566
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: didn't impact too many other people, and it was mainly

567
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: just like my my liver and my my head. But

568
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: besides that, yeah, my liver in my head took a

569
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: beating as well. Still are um all right? Well, thank

570
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: you it's Rob. Thank you to our friends at work

571
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: sharp as always hit him up on their YouTube page.

572
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: Lots of weekly sharpening tips going up there. Please support

573
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: Element work sharp These companies that support us. We can't

574
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: do what we do without them. It's important for you

575
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: guys to let them know they are appreciated. So now

576
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: we got the beautiful and talented, the wonderful, the peace,

577
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: love and hippie. The man you know, it's Douglas Durn.

578
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk all kinds of ship and have a

579
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: good time. Please enjoy our boy, Doug Douglas Darren. What's up, buddy. Well, Hey,

580
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here in my first late underwear, just came

581
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: in from working out and I'm not really cold, just

582
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: a beautiful November day and cutting some pine bottles and

583
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 1: having a blast. So that's what you do, and that's

584
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: that's the life that's trying to But I did take

585
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: your advice and I'm having a lot. You don't usually

586
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm not usually an afternoon drinker, but I'm having a

587
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: coffee with a little bit of a brand new unit. Sad. Well,

588
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a good time. We got cheers, cheers,

589
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: I'm having a root beer because you know I'm hardcore. Um,

590
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: we gotta talk about it. So you have had somehow

591
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: made contact with Phil Jr. We're not using his name

592
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: currently until we introduced him to the audience, but you've

593
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: made contact with our new Phil junior podcast engineer. So

594
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really hard to talk about without using

595
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: one of his two names. Go ahead, maybe we should

596
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: break the way this let us sound lightly, but let's

597
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: let's let's try it. So here's this fella, uh, you

598
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: know out there on the social media. UM, I have

599
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: a few people follow me and and I'm fair, I'm

600
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: fairly engaging and uh, I guess you know if people

601
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: right uh right back, UM, try to do it with everybody,

602
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: and especially ones we were particularly interesting. Well, this guy

603
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: um that we're talking about out um, and I'm starting

604
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: to exchange some time I got don't remember the specific one,

605
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: but he might. And it was about something that uh,

606
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's been some social commentary or some

607
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: hunting slash social commentary. H And anyway, he reached out

608
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: in a message and said something to me about you know,

609
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,479
Speaker 1: thanks for doing you know, thanks for what you said

610
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: or isn't or what's going on with this? And you know, anyway,

611
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: we had this exchange. Well eventually, UM, he's coming out west.

612
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: I guess he's going up by. He was going up

613
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: by Missoula three or four months ago and going to

614
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: go l countin and it reached out to me and

615
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, you know, as you're rolling through town,

616
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: he had actually asked if he stop and just say hello.

617
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: On I'm not sure. We had a little more of

618
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: a longer conversation. It comes on your trip, you want

619
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: to break up your trips stay at the farmhouse. And

620
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: he's like really, And I was like, yeah, what's the

621
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: worst thing that's gonna happen. I'm not gonna you know

622
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: that the house that build the farmhouse sort of isolated anyway,

623
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: so we didn't. We had a great time, a great

624
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: uh conversation. Way younger guy. But you got kind of

625
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: a younger guy than what I thought. So I guess

626
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: that means he's maybe a bit of an old soul. Anyway,

627
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: he comes out and then continues on his trip. But

628
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: I and at that time he told me a part

629
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: of his trip was to stop in Bozeman and talked

630
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: to Phil and Karin and because of some things that

631
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: had happened, which you guys have probably already talked about

632
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: or you will talk about when he comes on. And

633
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: as it uh so, and then as it turns out

634
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: he's gonna start working there at Uh. He's on the team.

635
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: He's on the team. He's on this and he's very

636
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: excited about it. So as he as he was moving

637
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: from Philadelphia, he stopped on the way back are on

638
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: the way out a week or ten days ago, had

639
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: his bowl along and I said, get your scunny ass

640
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: out there in the woods and kill a deer? Will you?

641
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: He did? Well. I mean, we have this a very

642
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: affectionate relationship with Phil, and I was initially worried that

643
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: new Phil. It was more, you know, more of my

644
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: style hunter. He's from Pennsylvania. He's a b h a guy.

645
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: He you know, he obviously uh gets your seal of

646
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: approval at some level. So I was at but not

647
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: complete yet. But he's on the right track. He's on

648
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: the right track, all right. Well see that's enough for

649
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: me to be worried that I'm gonna like this guy

650
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: a lot. And then eventually Phil I'm gonna push because

651
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: Phil plays video games. He he does all these things

652
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: that just you know, we we shouldn't be hanging out.

653
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: But I have such an affection for Phil. I'm just

654
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: worried that new Phil is going to come in and

655
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: kind of steal my affection away. So I'm just trying

656
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: to protect Phil by not saying his name or letting

657
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: him on the show yet until I've determined what to

658
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: do emotionally about this. Oh yeah, yeah, I can see it. Well,

659
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: I had never We're seeing Phil's face before a few

660
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: minutes ago when we set this whole thing up, and

661
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: here we are on video and stuff, And what an

662
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: earnest fella he is? You have just I mean, he

663
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: looks how he sound. I've gotten both. I've gotten that

664
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: both ways for myself personally. Have you ever gotten that?

665
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: Like you don't look how you sound or you look

666
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: how you sound? Now? People got me picked for Cranch

667
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: and the old Man right right? Yeah, they pake you right,

668
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: they pake you right. Well man, how the hell have

669
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: you not been on this show before? Is the thing

670
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: that I was wondering about prior to this kind of

671
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: how did it take me get locked into some stupid

672
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: room here with COVID for us to have you on?

673
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: I don't I feel like I want to apologize for

674
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 1: that number one? Yeah? Well, or maybe it's like my

675
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: my buddy Keefer says he was just leaving room for improvement.

676
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: That's right, We're gonna get down the road someways. So well, no,

677
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to be here. This is a uh well,

678
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: we talked about doing it. Um in August, we almost did. Hell,

679
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: we we did a we did a podcast at the Applebee's. Yep,

680
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: we had a whole thing go and we can replay it.

681
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: Was it Applebee's. I was trying to remember that was

682
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: Applebe's or t g I Fridays was so nondescript. But

683
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: who did a really nice job of social distancing and

684
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: had the place broken up. And that was the first

685
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: time you either one of us had been away from

686
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: home since the whole thing broke. Yes, this August we

687
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: were filming The Back forty, which is out now. So

688
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: if you want to see episode two starring Doug during,

689
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: go to the Mediator YouTube page and check it out.

690
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean we're filming that thing. Not a

691
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: lot is open. It's a small town right where I

692
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of the town, somewhere in rural Michigan.

693
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: Cold Water, Coldwater, Michigan. So if you're listening and you're

694
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: in cold Water, thank you for the great hospital. The

695
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: only thing open is an Applebee's, I mean the only

696
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: thing open as an Applebee's, and so we had it.

697
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: We had to. We wanted to eat dinner nightly at

698
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: this Applebee's, and I felt like we could have had Applebee's.

699
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: By by the way, not a sponsor yet, but I

700
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: think after they here, you know, we we must have

701
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: spent you know, old meat eater must have spent hundreds

702
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: of dollars. They're at the Applebee's in that fine establishment.

703
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: And we had quite we If people could have only

704
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: heard that podcast we never recorded, we really would. I would.

705
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: We had a waitress banter, you know, had like this

706
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: small town waitress banters. My favorite ship in the world.

707
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: We had a lot of that. We had a lot

708
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: of steak and potatoes type of situations solved. We solved

709
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: a lot of the world's problems. We texted, We texted

710
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan a bunch bothered him about ship. Had a

711
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: good time, man, Yeah, it was a blast. It was

712
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: a blast. And then the next night we had well

713
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: we're there three nights, right, yeah, the whole the whole

714
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: cruise there. The first night, which was the whole t

715
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: was like the way it used to be with when

716
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: Skinny came out here for the first time, just like

717
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: it was, you know, just a couple of people. The

718
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: last time that we shot a couple of episodes out here,

719
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: I think there was like, you know, nine or ten people.

720
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: But so it just kind of tight and lean, you

721
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: know type group of people working together and stuff. And

722
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: that was fun. That was fun. That was fun, man,

723
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: that was fun. What was your impression of working on

724
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: because you know, you've worked on a lot of people

725
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: have seen you in the met Eater TV a bunch,

726
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: they've seen you in the Stars and Sky documentary all

727
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and if you haven't seen those things,

728
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: go see him. What are you doing? Um? So, there's

729
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: a difference right between a show like that and then

730
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: a show like Back forty. I mean we've talked that

731
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: we've done a little bit of behind the scenes here

732
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: on this program, and I know Kenyans talked about it.

733
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: But what was that you know, film and something like that,

734
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: like where we weren't hunting, we were just playing trees,

735
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: playing food plots. Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, that's the

736
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: kind of stuff I do pretty much every day. You know,

737
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: that's staying management work, and uh, it's really so to

738
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: be recording it. I mean you probably remember a few times,

739
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: like when we first started planting those trees, it was

740
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: like it took us forever to plant six trees and

741
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, we got thirty five more to put in.

742
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: But we were setting stuff up and when you film

743
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: uh meat Eater, and I remember, I mean the first

744
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: time that I filmed Meat Eator, Steve calls and said, hey,

745
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: we just come out, and I's like, well, how do

746
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: you do it? He goes, this is we're going to

747
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: go hunt and a couple of guys follow us around

748
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: with cameras and that's really and you know, obviously it

749
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: was way more than that in great storytelling um and

750
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: all that, but certainly not from my perspective but from

751
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: the people who are working with And so this was

752
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: more like when we shot my part of the Stars

753
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: in the Skies movie where they had where you guys

754
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: set stuff up and say, okay, well you know, here

755
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: are the things that we really are going to accomplish,

756
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: and Um and Mark uh you know, I can't figure

757
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: out you and Mark working together, um and then Sam

758
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: in the mix and all that. How that uh, how

759
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: that I was? It was fun observing all of that,

760
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: and then like, how do you guys work together and

761
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: what's that creative process because you're creating a show and

762
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: whereas I was, and so I wanted to be an

763
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: active participating that. And it seems like when we were

764
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: doing Stars in the Sky, Steve and I had talked

765
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: and he's like, but here's what we're gonna talk about. Man,

766
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's all this stuff that you and I've

767
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: talked about. It had a very specific about you know,

768
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: and that was sort of some stories that we have

769
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: where's doing this The story is kind of folding unfolding

770
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: out in front of us, and who knows what's gonna happen, Like,

771
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna break. Um, although I could have

772
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: predicted that fertilizer spreader of marks has break. I must.

773
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: I must watch the episode thirty times and I laugh

774
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: every time. But so that part of it was just

775
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: we were just doing that stuff and uh uh the

776
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: cameraman Charlie and justin uh, we're really good. This is

777
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: the one of the things that goes through with all

778
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: of the stuff that I've done with with media and

779
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: now this guy's we're with but captured creative. Yep. The

780
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: production company anyway. Is they're just really good at stand

781
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: out of the way and just capturing what's going on.

782
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I was watching the episode and I'm like,

783
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: that's really cool what they caught there, and then how

784
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: you guys cut that into the story and makes sense

785
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: out of my you know, ramblings and stuff. I I

786
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: enjoy it, man, I'll tell you, like, I want people

787
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: that are listening to hear some of the like how

788
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: that process works, because for me, at least, it makes

789
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: it more interesting because we certainly don't script and we

790
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: don't be like, hey, guys say this right, yeah, we

791
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: we we put you in a situation that you need

792
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: to be in any way to get the job done,

793
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: and then kind of see where it goes from there,

794
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 1: which is fun. Man. It's fun to kind of take

795
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: those that stuff and then whittle it down to overtime.

796
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: You know, we start with an hour long cut and

797
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: then boom, boom boom, we get it. We do some writing,

798
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: we do some shaping, and then it goes out to

799
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: the world and it's hopefully seems like it's a seamless

800
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, twenty some minutes of of real work and

801
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: real like real laughter, real feelings and that's what it is.

802
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: So I felt like, I mean, this is as great

803
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: a compliment as I can have in my vast experiences

804
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: television production, which is all it's just like just there's

805
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: it's just a theme and the way things are done

806
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: and equality and uh, I mean, I just I was

807
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: really proud of my watched as you sent me the

808
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: rough cut last week, and I you know, my wife

809
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: and I watched me laughed, you know, laughed all the

810
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: way through it, like well, you know, that's just the way.

811
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: We weren't trying to be funny. It's just the way

812
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: that stuff goes, you know. Yeah, it's it's nice to see,

813
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: you know. Like Mark, for example, Mark Kenyon, his his

814
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: personality gets amplified in a natural way. Right, Like some

815
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: of the things he does that are you know, coaching

816
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: and right I get shown. But some of the things

817
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: that he does that are a little bit screwed up

818
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: get shown too. But those things just get amplified in

819
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: a way that makes hopefully makes people laugh and gives

820
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 1: them a little you know, Farming, as you say, they're

821
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: farming is hard work, man, It's unpredictable, and it's as

822
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: much about overcoming issues as it is about the result,

823
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, yeah now, and and it's really good fun

824
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: being a part of the process with the back forty

825
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: for me that the land itself, I mean, the production stuff.

826
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys just kind of here's we're going

827
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: to do this, you know, and um, I've done enough

828
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: of it now that when you kind of give me

829
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: the general idea. I mean, and we'd already talked about

830
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: what we were gonna that. We're gonna food plots, tree planting.

831
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: This dude's gonna come that, um doing some work, you know,

832
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: and the I'm gonna hunt later. Um, and I'm thinking

833
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: about all the other all the other stuff we could do,

834
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, just because I know what that land. There's

835
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: a lot needs to be done on that land. Or

836
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say it needs to be done. There's a

837
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: lot that could be done in that land and a

838
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: lot that's being done. And the cool thing about that

839
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: property is that it's I mean Mark was talking about

840
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: restorative agriculture and sustainable agriculture, and um, that's that's that's

841
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: really important, you know, talking about tree planting is really important.

842
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: The little things that you can do on a property, um,

843
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: uh to improve it and you know, just make it better.

844
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: But I think a big part of that is you

845
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: can have a vision of it and then just start

846
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: adapting right adaptive management. And that's one of the things

847
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: I've already seen in these last year year and a

848
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: half with that property. You know, Mark took in a

849
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: lot of information, you know, and uh, I mean, I

850
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: think you should pay more attention to what I'm telling.

851
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: But obviously he had a lot of other input as well,

852
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: and I've liked his decision making process, you know, and

853
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: the work that he's gotten done. It's very cool. It's

854
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: very cool. Yeah. I mean, if those if you haven't

855
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: followed the back already, shame on. You go watch all

856
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: the episodes now, then we're back. Uh, congratulations, you've watched

857
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: all the episodes. I think that I think it's important

858
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: that people understand that, you know, I think throughout this

859
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: show that we've been putting on, it's we've we've wanted

860
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: people understand the minut shist sometimes, so like the what

861
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: you might if you were scripting a television program, you

862
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 1: might skip over because it's boring. Maybe it's it's something

863
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: that you would say, yeah, we did it, but not

864
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: show it. Not show you know, what goes right and

865
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: what goes wrong with tree planning and food plots and

866
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: putting up box blinds and some of the things that

867
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: we're showing this season, you know, planting switch grass, pollinat

868
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: your pockets, doing you know, putting bees bee hives on

869
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: the place. I'm happy that people can can see that

870
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: because it just shows you that there's hunting. But maybe

871
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: hunting is half of it, you know, and maybe it's

872
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: less than halfens and probably in your case, hunting is

873
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: way less than half. Yeah. Man. I always say, if

874
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: if it was a yard stick, if the farm or

875
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: conservation what I do is a yard stick, hunting would

876
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: be like six inches of it, you know. Um. And

877
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: although I'm very excited because huntings deer hunting is about

878
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: to start here and that's part of what I'm getting

879
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: prepared for us what is that time of year. But

880
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm not preparing, you know, It's not like I'm working

881
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: that land preparing it to hunt. I'm working that land

882
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 1: trying to do what the best thing is. And that

883
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: quote unquote best thing is elusive. Um. I mean you

884
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: have to be thoughtful about it. You have to have

885
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: sort of I mean one are the reasons I like

886
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: Leopold so much as he was so philosophical about it.

887
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: You know, a thing that tends to be more in

888
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: harmony tends to be more right, you know. Um, how

889
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: hard are we pushing this? Um? Yeah, that land And

890
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: obviously with agriculture we do that. And it's something I

891
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: think about, you know a lot to sort of see

892
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: a little property like this one, I mean beautiful. What

893
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean Mark should get a lot of credit. And

894
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: the people he worked for, we worked with and worked for,

895
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: but the people he worked with to find that property.

896
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if you were to lay out of criteria,

897
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: you know, a landowner looking for and I do this

898
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: with landowners, right or people who want to become landowners. Um,

899
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: here's what I'm looking for in a property. And you know,

900
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: and it's not like done, it's more like, well, what's

901
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: the potential here? And then you put that plan, uh,

902
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: and you start to assess it. You put that plan

903
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: in place, and then you start doing things and it's

904
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: just a great process. And the back forties is an

905
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: excellent example of that, I think, and I think it's

906
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: really relatable to people who are interested in having their

907
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: their piece of Kevin yeah. Well, I mean there's so

908
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: much that you know, we think about when we think

909
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: about that property, how it's it's very emblematic of lots

910
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: of things. But certainly as ah, you know this, as

911
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: a as a group meat eater, I think we've probably

912
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: well more known for public land than private land. Right.

913
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: People certainly see us as a Western private land or

914
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: public land brand for many reasons. Our relationship with b

915
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: h S is solid. Um. Well, when we started a company,

916
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: we all thought Bosman's nice. You know, we didn't we

917
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: didn't move to Yeah, we didn't move to Boygan. Um,

918
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: so I bet it should be boy It's nicely right.

919
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: I spent three years in Peoria one week. Um yeah,

920
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean that's so for us to to to take

921
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: the lead to show this, this what the proximity to

922
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,879
Speaker 1: a piece of land like this means to us, means

923
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: to mark as a white tail hunter means to me

924
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: as a storyteller and somebody who really cares about wild

925
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: places and natural places probably better described. It's been fun

926
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: to kind of shrink it all down into very small

927
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: into a very small track to land and then get

928
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: real intimate with every damn thing. I mean, we've shot

929
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: you were there when we shoot close ups some bugs

930
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: and butterflies and shipped on the hunting ship. Um, so

931
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: that's part the story though. Man. Yeah, yeah, it's been

932
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: cool for me. And then to have you come in

933
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: and kind of give us, you know, forty some years

934
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: of expertise as you were also, as we said, the

935
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: episode of Vagabond Tree Planner, which we'll get into some stories.

936
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: But you have all this experience, like are you as

937
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: what does it make you feel to see something some

938
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: piece of private lands so small play out like this

939
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: for people to experience the struggles, the process, the good,

940
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: the bad, the ugly, you know, the sweat, the tears,

941
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Well, part of what I do in

942
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: real life is you know, land management work and and

943
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: uh uh you know, and and seeing that play out

944
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: with different people and you know, everything from very wealthy

945
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: clients to folks whom you know, who are just like

946
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: struggle who you know, My dream is to get forty

947
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: acres and and do this thing. And it's the cool

948
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: thing about about what the back fort he's doing and

949
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: how and how that it is showing that that process

950
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: and that emotion is really a part of it. And

951
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 1: I don't care where you are. I mean I'm kind

952
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: of getting uh, I'm kind of getting fond of that

953
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: Hillsdale area, you know, but that I'm learning more about

954
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: that region and what that's like and everything, and um,

955
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: those kinds of things. That sense of place I think

956
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: is really, you know, really important. And I think Mark's

957
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: bringing that out. I mean, he loves that here, you know,

958
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: that region. Obviously he lives a little ways away from there,

959
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: but um, I mean I get it, you know, and

960
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: and I can see the attractiveness of it, um and

961
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Yeah, And it can be even if you know,

962
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, we live in Montana. We think how harsh

963
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: the mountains, how harsh this landscape is, and you know

964
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: that that brings some attractive nature to us living in

965
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: this place. But man, it's not that Michigan ain't a

966
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: hardass placed man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I

967
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta step back from that. I have der

968
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: friends in Sheboygan, Wisconsin and Approacast Approachaboygan all the way

969
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: and and pro Plymouth and that whole arey over there.

970
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: Nice nice folks. Uh yeah, anyway, because because you know,

971
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: in this state, man, the Sheboygan crowd can get harsh.

972
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: You know, it's actually pretty cool area over there. I've

973
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: been there a few times. Um, but yeah, I mean,

974
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 1: I love the One of the things I like about

975
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: just chatting with you like our Appleby's time, is that

976
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: we can so we could take like you can take

977
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: these philosophies of how we relate to land. And man,

978
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: I love talking about that because that's one of the

979
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: things I've recently been sitting around in this room, locked

980
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: in this room with COVID, thinking, Boy, man, I want

981
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: to be a wildlife biologist, like I wanna. I'm gonnay.

982
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 1: If I go back to college right now about five

983
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: to eight years, I bet I can have a damn

984
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: degree and all this ship I've talked on this podcast

985
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: might actually stand up in court, you know. Like, but

986
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: I do feel passionate about that proximity to the land,

987
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: of this understanding of that you clearly have over decades. Well,

988
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, But my understanding is is is my

989
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: my look at the land is much more philosophical when

990
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: it comes to the uh, the understanding and the nuts

991
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: and bolts of conservation. The first thing that I'm doing

992
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: is talking to people who specialize in areas and um,

993
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: you know everything you say if you would go back

994
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: to school. I mean I've said many times that that

995
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: I would have gone back and got up. I wish

996
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: I would have gotten a forestry degree. Um. And you

997
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: know I could see myself being a forester, but um,

998
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: you know that's just not the way it when. So

999
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: what I do, Uh, let me have an earth science

1000
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: degree in history degree and a whole bunch of experience

1001
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 1: and classes and seminars and in all the areas of conservation.

1002
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: But the common theme through that is, uh, like learning

1003
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: all the time and paying attention to the opportunities to

1004
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: learn and and you know, listen to the experts and

1005
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: trust them. That also question and when it really comes

1006
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: to land management, it becomes a personal thing. When it

1007
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: comes to any kind of you know, conservation thing, I don't.

1008
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: It's not that I don't relate to the public land thing,

1009
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: because I mean I worked on the the trails on

1010
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: the Appalachian Trail in the north slopes of the White

1011
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: Mountains of a high school teacher out there. I did

1012
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: trail work. I did you know the work that I

1013
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: planted trees in national forest. Um. It just happens to

1014
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: be where I am here, the land is where I

1015
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: grew up, is you know, privately owned. So I think

1016
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: I have a perspective um that that that informs the

1017
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: philosophy about you know, what's the best thing that we

1018
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: can do here? And you know, and you can't be

1019
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: rigid about it, you know, um and so and so

1020
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: that's part of that. That philosophy is like used to

1021
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, Bob Dylan said, it used to go like that.

1022
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 1: Now it goes like this. I mean that idea that

1023
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: I reserve the right to change my mind, that I

1024
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: can go in a different direction. You know, you say

1025
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: it as pro nuance. I think that's why you and

1026
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: I get along, because it is that kind of thing.

1027
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: I disagree with all kinds of ship that you'd say,

1028
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: but just for the record, I don't even agree with

1029
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: myself all the time. So um. But you know the

1030
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: point is that there's a philosophy there about it that

1031
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: we can work through it get better at it. Progress

1032
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: I mean you want to call me to progressive, I'd say,

1033
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Yeah. I think easily progressives win

1034
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: through history, um, regardless of the topic. But yeah, man,

1035
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: I I I like when when I can at least.

1036
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: I think the most productive conversation ends up being that

1037
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: we have a foundational understanding of where we both how

1038
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,479
Speaker 1: we're both approaching something, and then disagree along the way,

1039
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, and those disagreements where where things become interesting

1040
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: and where we're able to learn from each other. Without

1041
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: those disagreements, you're just going like this, shaking your head

1042
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: all the time. But yeah, what's that that old saying about.

1043
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: There are those who watch things happen. There those who

1044
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: make things happen, and there are those who wonder what

1045
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: the hell happened? Um, those that's the kind of thing

1046
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: which I mean, put folks into those categories. And I

1047
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: mean I kind of like being all of those categories

1048
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: some of the times, you know, what the hell, they

1049
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: just have to be unpredictable at the very least. Yeah, Yeah, So, um,

1050
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: that's that's where the fun is, you know, that's where

1051
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: the fun is and all of this. And I guess

1052
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: that's something that I've learned, you know, I mean, and

1053
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, I know I talked about music a lot,

1054
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: musical influences and stuff, but Robert Hunter, Jerry Garcia, you know,

1055
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: some great grateful dead lyrics and all of that but um,

1056
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: I saw this interview with Jerry Garcia, who they were

1057
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, grateful dead, doing this, doing that,

1058
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: and it's like he only had one question, is this

1059
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: gonna be fun? God? You know, it's just sort of

1060
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: like I've gotten to a point in my life. Now

1061
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to be sixty two in January. It's like

1062
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: I'm I'm starting to make decisions completely based on that.

1063
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean, ship man, you know what's fun?

1064
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: You know when I get into these grooves where I'm

1065
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: sitting in front of the computer. That's one of the

1066
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: reasons I fell in love with podcasting because I get

1067
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: to talk to really interesting people and a whole lot

1068
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: of the time I'm in their element, or I'm learning

1069
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: from them, or I'm out doing things. Since COVID has

1070
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: come down, we're doing a lot of these you know,

1071
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: virtual conversations. This nice see each other, but like you gotta,

1072
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, feel where the other person's at as much

1073
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: as anything to come. And you can only get that

1074
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: in an Applebee. You can only get that in a

1075
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: small town Michigan. I wish I would have in the

1076
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: middle of COVID every but nobody was too nervous over

1077
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: there if everybody feels like it seemed like they were

1078
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: just just doing doing okay, But yeah, I mean that

1079
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: like to me, you know, when I when I think

1080
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: about what maybe the audience can learn from you that

1081
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: they maybe you haven't already learned. One of the things

1082
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: that I'd like to hear you talk about is exactly what,

1083
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: like if you were gonna boil down you're a philosophy

1084
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: on our relationship with land, because one of my favorite

1085
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: scenes of anything we've ever filmed that met either was

1086
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: when you were walking around and whizzing Steve Ronnella on

1087
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: what trees were in a wood lot. There was some

1088
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: timber and you're walking to your farm, and I remember thinking,

1089
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: my dad never quiz me like that. But he knew

1090
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: every tree, he knew every bird, he knew every like

1091
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: every plant, and he just picked that up naturally, and

1092
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: I never I never chased him down that road as

1093
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: much as I should have. So I think that's like

1094
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: your relationship to the land has transmitted to almost everything

1095
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: Mediator has done. So because for people to hear like

1096
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: how you describe your philosophy for that whole thing is

1097
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 1: is I'm sure it changes through time. You know, I

1098
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: have a good fortune of being uh, this generation's steward

1099
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: of four acres has been in my family for hundred

1100
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: and seventeen years. And you can't help but when you

1101
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: had when when you're in a situation like that and

1102
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: good fortune, right, Um, you can't help but be in

1103
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: a situation like that, when sort of walking through or

1104
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: or spending time on a property where you are where

1105
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: everything around you has your your your blood, you know,

1106
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: your family's blood has been a part of that. Your

1107
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: family's work has been a part of that. Um. And

1108
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: I mean, and I ended up boiling it down to

1109
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, simply, you know that phrase, if it's not ours,

1110
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: it's just our turn. And I think I've told that.

1111
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've told this story or not.

1112
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: But we were cutting trees that were years old. It

1113
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: was red oaks, and it was there time. You know,

1114
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: it was there time to go, and I had been

1115
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: I've been charged with that task. So how we're going

1116
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: to um, um, you know, how we're gonna leave that

1117
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: dear friend of mine and tremendous forces. Her name is

1118
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: Mike Finlay. Um said to me, one of the things

1119
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: you gotta understanding when you're thinking about how you're cutting

1120
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: and what you're doing into your woods is it's not

1121
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: just what you're taking, but it really is what you're leaving.

1122
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: And he and I were working up in the woods

1123
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: and walking out and He's said to said to me, boy,

1124
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: I'm really really impressed that you and your family are

1125
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: willing to do We're doing a real aggressive bunch of

1126
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: forestry in an area to try to regenerate red oaks

1127
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: and something that's a part of the driftless area and

1128
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: all of that. And I said, I'm just really impressed

1129
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: you're doing a lot of people just don't want to

1130
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: cut trees like that and do that kind of work.

1131
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: And I really applaud that. And I was like, well,

1132
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, again, those streets are dwive years old and

1133
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: they were saplings when my great grandfather bought this land

1134
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: and they've been managed and taking care of for all

1135
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: this time. Um that at that moment, man, I literally

1136
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: could visualize my parents and my grandparents and my great

1137
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: grandparents there with us, and I said, I guess I

1138
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: feel like it's not ours, it's just our term. And

1139
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: Mike looked at me because I write that down that

1140
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: could be a T shirt that it did well. And

1141
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: that's really that really is the philosophy, right, um and

1142
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: I and that's what that's what I that's what I've

1143
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: come up with. Um, we're actively managing the property that

1144
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: has been actively managed has been different things, and it's like, well,

1145
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: what what is it now? You know what and what

1146
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: could it be in the future. I mean it had

1147
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: to it always had to pay for itself in the past,

1148
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: and now it doesn't. And so we're able to do

1149
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: quote unquote the best thing or the right thing. Um.

1150
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: And that's really you know, I mean, conservation has been

1151
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: a part of My great grandfather was a lumberman. My

1152
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: grandfather was a lumber man. We did we did work

1153
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: on our farm, a timber work on our farm the

1154
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: whole time I was growing up. I just grew up

1155
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: around it, you know. UM, And I guess I absorbed

1156
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: a lot of it. But I have intentionally, um taught

1157
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: people about trees and quizzed people about trees. My daughter

1158
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: can identify was on some hardwood trees and evergreen trees

1159
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: at sixt what kind of tree is that? And you know,

1160
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: and she buy the shape and whatnot, and you know,

1161
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: she never had any dendrology classes, nor did I, you know,

1162
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: nor did I. Um, but that stuff is, yeah, that's

1163
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: really important. So there's always been a closeness. I remember

1164
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: when Steve first came, I was talking about water sheds

1165
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 1: and he goes, man, I grew up in Michigan. Nobody

1166
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:32,919
Speaker 1: knew what watershed they were in. Um, And like, don't

1167
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, maybe just not aware of it. I think

1168
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: that guys like me. I mean, I don't think I'm unusual. Man,

1169
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: I just got a bigger mouth and a lot of

1170
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: guys like me. But um, I don't think it's unusual.

1171
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: I know a lot of folks who know who know

1172
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: their place, you know. Um. And so there's an active,

1173
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: active participation in in a property or in an area

1174
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: and in conservation, right. I mean, I just think it's

1175
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: active participation. And I'm gonna make everybody's gonna make mistakes

1176
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: or ship you know. It seemed like a good, good

1177
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: idea at the time. I was a classic one. Man.

1178
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: I planted a bunch of pine trees good Lord forty

1179
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: years ago, and uh, I planted him on the south

1180
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: side of the driveway at the farm, A bunch of

1181
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: big red pines and you know they're there. There's this

1182
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: big round and for those of you who can't see me,

1183
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 1: it's about eighteen inch and they're shading the freaking driveway

1184
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: of the farm. And this here that you have to

1185
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: go up. And you know, in the wintertime it gets

1186
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: all ice and it never melts and it's all that.

1187
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: And you know, if I could talk to my twenty

1188
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: year old self, like, hey man, you might want to

1189
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: consider planting those trees on the other side of that road. Um.

1190
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: And my response to that kind of stuff is, well,

1191
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: it seems like a good idea at the time. You know, well,

1192
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's some beauty in that and that

1193
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: active choice, right, there's some beauty and that, Like I

1194
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure you didn't think you're rolling the

1195
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: dice by playing some damn trees, but you had an

1196
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: active role in shape in the landscape. It's gonna be

1197
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: there's gonna be mixed results has to be. Yeah, it's too,

1198
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. I mean, And that's one of

1199
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: the coolest things now being for me. I mean, in

1200
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: the in the last third I guess of my life, right,

1201
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be sixty two, and I would say I mean,

1202
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: my my family has some longevity. I planned to live

1203
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 1: to be nineties, so, um, I got a lot to

1204
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: do between now and then, so I gotta keep busy. Uh.

1205
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: But out there on that farm, you know, we talked

1206
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: to you. You mentioned that the tree planning thing, um,

1207
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: and that's something that I did when I was twenty

1208
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: one years old. I was just went off from was

1209
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: a vagabond tree planner and came back. But that's forty

1210
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: years ago, and I planted trees on the farm. So

1211
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: we're out there, um, and I planted hardwood trees. I

1212
01:06:54,760 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: planted pine trees, uh, spruce trees, um. And so but

1213
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: I'm out there amongst that stuff now and it's big

1214
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: as trees. And you had that impact on that landscape

1215
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,959
Speaker 1: and you saw that, and so you know, I talked

1216
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: about it in in the in the Back forty episode

1217
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 1: about that impact is there. I don't think that's anything

1218
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: that you can do that's cooler than planting trees. I like,

1219
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: really like the idea of long term careers too. Yeah,

1220
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of a premial thing and the

1221
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: memories that become a part of it. Marks gott a

1222
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: pine tree that he planted in his yard with his

1223
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: kids that I gave him, and those kids are always

1224
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: going to remember that, you know, he talked to him

1225
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: about it. These all those kids are gonna remember it.

1226
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: So those kind of memories are important too. You know.

1227
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: I'd like to also say that, you know, plant trees

1228
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: are and grow memories. H So those kinds of impacts

1229
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: are cool, you know, um, not only from a conservation standpoint,

1230
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: but also from like a personal and philosophical you know,

1231
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: uh standpoint. Yeah, we talk about conservation all the time,

1232
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: and I know I have people that listen to this

1233
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: show and that are taken in our content that hear

1234
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: us talk about conservation and they hear us explain what

1235
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: it is, and we explain you know, the conservation structure,

1236
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: the kind of scaffolding of conservation within our government and

1237
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: governmental agencies, and do we talk about even the more

1238
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: philosophical idea of conservation and land management and what that means.

1239
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: But I know there's a lot of people that listen

1240
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: to this that live in the city that never get

1241
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: to feel what it feels like to to do something

1242
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: like planet tree. Right, you can we can apply that

1243
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: to the term conservation, but what or not? But it's

1244
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: planting the damn tree. That's what it is. And but

1245
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,560
Speaker 1: all of that's intertwined in in this concept of of

1246
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 1: conserving a place and steward in a place. And and

1247
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: I've I've gotten to feel that on the back forty

1248
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: I've I've certainly done in other places, but I've felt

1249
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: it on the back for you that we're actually like,

1250
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: I feel what it feels like. I feel if feels

1251
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: good to see a bunch of deer on their um.

1252
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: You know from the episode where you were on right now,

1253
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: Dan Jago is out sitting in the tree stand right

1254
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: now trying to find it there, and there's there's ten

1255
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: times more deer on there than it was last year.

1256
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: Um if maybe twenty times, thirty times. I mean, it's

1257
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. Yea, yeah, well we're doing our best. But yeah,

1258
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: I guess I say all that to say, like, I

1259
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: know there's people that don't know what it feels like

1260
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 1: to plane a tree and watch it grow and then

1261
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: watch to have an impact, watch bird's nest in it,

1262
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: and watch squirrels to use it. I know that there's

1263
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: people listening to this that maybe never will have that chance. Um,

1264
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: So I'm glad that we're able to describe the feeling

1265
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 1: at least or or what it really means to do it. Well.

1266
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: You know, we spend a lot of time talking about

1267
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,879
Speaker 1: like hunter recruitment, and you know we've got like all

1268
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: great programs like our three UM learn to Hunt programs. UM.

1269
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: I know you're taking that media to folks were taken

1270
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 1: and folks out. I mean I welcome h and learning

1271
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: hunters you know pretty often, but I I get a

1272
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: little concerned sometimes that hunting is really extraction, right. I

1273
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,879
Speaker 1: mean you go killing something and taking it off the landscape.

1274
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: So the question becomes, what are you putting into that

1275
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 1: landscape UM to support that animal and make that a

1276
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: sustainable UM experience UM. And I don't know exactly where

1277
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:35,480
Speaker 1: the best place to interject folks UM into that process

1278
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: is when you want them to be I mean, what's

1279
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 1: the goal is it's a goal to buy have a

1280
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: bunch of people with like the learning who are buying licenses.

1281
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: For sure, that's a part of it, but you want

1282
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:48,599
Speaker 1: I think that a big part of it. We also

1283
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 1: want folks are going to contribute to conservation in some

1284
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 1: way that are going to be supportive of conservation in

1285
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: some way. So somehow I think it's important that folks

1286
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: learn about that as a part of their process, as

1287
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 1: opposed to we're gonna make sure they know how to

1288
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: shoot good and they're gonna take them out hunting. Um.

1289
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: And that's kind of and I think there's room for

1290
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 1: all kinds of different opportunities. But we know that one

1291
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: of the challenges that we have and hunter recruitment is

1292
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: a place to go hunt. We also know that one

1293
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: of the other challenge, the two biggest challenges are along

1294
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 1: with that is a place to go and someone to

1295
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: go with. And man in the Midwest, you know, let

1296
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: me give you an example of our county. Of this

1297
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: county that I live in, Rislin County is considered dear

1298
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: habitat um of that land is privately owned. So if

1299
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 1: you're gonna go hunting in Richmond County, Wisconsin, you're gonna

1300
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: you can if you're only hunting on public and it's

1301
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: gonna be pretty limited, and it's probably gonna be fairly competitive. Um.

1302
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: We take we do a pretty good job in Wisconsin

1303
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: of exposing people to public, making public land available to folks.

1304
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 1: But then also some of our other public land programs

1305
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: um like voluntary public access and managed force law open

1306
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and so people get that opportunity,

1307
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: you know, took off to those properties and um, if

1308
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: they're just going to hunt, um, and that's like the

1309
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: thing that they want to do, that only or that

1310
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 1: extraction thing. One of the things I dig about b

1311
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 1: h A and particularly Wisconsin p H I don't I

1312
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: don't know that much about the other chapters, and I

1313
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: certainly know a little bit about National, but my experiences

1314
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 1: would have been these folks are Wisconsin Chapter b h A.

1315
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 1: They're out there. Um, they're out there working on their land.

1316
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 1: You know when they wear those shirts that say public

1317
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 1: land Owner. Um, they're you know, they're kind of putting

1318
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: their time and their money their at their mouth is too.

1319
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 1: They're getting out and they're adopting properties and and you

1320
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: know and doing that kind of working. Um. You know,

1321
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: that's something I spoke with him about when I first

1322
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: met him, and UM, it was really cool to hear

1323
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: that they were going that's one of the things that

1324
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: they thought about a lot um, and so they're learning

1325
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: about I mean, these folks are committed to conservation also,

1326
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: so then how can we do that? How do you

1327
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 1: introduce people to that idea both on their bh A

1328
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 1: can do it on a public land basis, but how

1329
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 1: can we do it on a private land basis? And Yeah,

1330
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: I think there really needs to be a thought about

1331
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: cooperation and getting more people out into our private lands.

1332
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: Well we so when we were first well, I had

1333
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: this guy named Luca Paculi. I don't know if you've

1334
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: ever met. I don't know if you met him, and

1335
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: he was on the back forwarding on this podcast and

1336
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 1: he's at a UC Berkeley, And that was one of

1337
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:00,040
Speaker 1: the things that we started to look at the this

1338
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: idea of doing a show called the Back forty. I

1339
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,600
Speaker 1: started looking for somebody like Luke who had studied the

1340
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 1: relationship between hunting really only hunting, not fishing in this case,

1341
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: and leasing um and the ownership of private land and

1342
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: what did it really mean to the greater landscape the

1343
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: United States. We know, we kind of have tallied up

1344
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: all the the stats for how many millions of acres

1345
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 1: of public land there are, We've tallied those up. We've

1346
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: kind of presented that case through b h A and

1347
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: through other things. But like what we all know that

1348
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 1: private lands and we all wish we had private land

1349
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: all of us, if we were being honest. So like

1350
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: he's a guy who found that, you know, I think

1351
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: it's twenty six percent of all private land in the

1352
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 1: US has either owned for hunting or least for hunting,

1353
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: of all the land in the US, I mean that's

1354
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: that's a quarter of the land, um. And you have

1355
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: landowners that are earning billions of dollars. I think I'm

1356
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: billion and a half dollars a year and income from

1357
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: these two years um that they're hunting. And so yeah,

1358
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: this is all private land. I mean, this is two

1359
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:10,759
Speaker 1: million acres A quarter of our country is either least

1360
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: or owned specifically for for hunting. And so then you

1361
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: start to think of, like, what kind of impact can

1362
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 1: we have if we if we even had a quarter

1363
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,640
Speaker 1: of that manage their land in the same way or

1364
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: at least around the same principles. Right if they all

1365
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 1: if if they knew their power, Right if only people

1366
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 1: like you and the Durham Farm really knew the power

1367
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 1: that they had on a state level, maybe, but certainly

1368
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,560
Speaker 1: on a federal level, certainly on a national level. And

1369
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: that's what got me thinking about cooperative management and and

1370
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 1: what the hell can we do? You know, what the

1371
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 1: hell can sixty four acres really be? Because it can

1372
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: be a whole lot more than just sixty four acres,

1373
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: And so I think it was good to present that idea.

1374
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: We presented that idea last year in the Back forty

1375
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 1: had luke on and but now there's this idea, like,

1376
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: let's grab ahold of it because there is this immense

1377
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: power and farms like yours and farms like the Back

1378
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: forty um not only an access but also in cooperation

1379
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: and trying to you know, to build a better you know,

1380
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: build a better state, build a better region, build a

1381
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:24,719
Speaker 1: better nation. You know what's interesting as we we've obviously

1382
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,560
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit, and we're we have

1383
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of ideas about it, but it's one of

1384
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 1: the bits of perspective and all of that that I

1385
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: can bring is again, as a guy who's sixty two

1386
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: years old, I get to say, when I was a kid, um,

1387
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:42,560
Speaker 1: and I was a kid you know around me this

1388
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: this area, the same area that I'm talking about, Um,

1389
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 1: I grew up around here in hunting access. I mean

1390
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: it was it wasn't Hunting was just like going out

1391
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, a little bit of deer hunting, and there's

1392
01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: a lot of small game hunting, you know as a kid,

1393
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: but it was kind of wide open. Private land wasn't

1394
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: um as closed up or as it is now or

1395
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: what it wasn't managed doing so much more managed. And

1396
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 1: then over the really over the last forty years, um,

1397
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: no one had land around here specifically for hunting. That

1398
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 1: seems to uh, let me finish that statistic I had

1399
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: before about our land is privately owned. Of the land

1400
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 1: in this county is owned by people who don't live here,

1401
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 1: and you know so, and that's a big change in

1402
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: the last forty years. And those are folks who are

1403
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 1: owning it for for those things that you said, you know,

1404
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: for hunting, or for specifically for hunting, um least or

1405
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm you kind of punched me right in

1406
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 1: the gut with that twenty million acres or at least

1407
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: of land, at least our own for hunting, private land

1408
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: of the land. It's amazing. So I've experienced that in

1409
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 1: the last forty years. So there's less and less access

1410
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: around here. It used to be you know, yeah, you

1411
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: could go knock ander and you knew everybody well that

1412
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: land also didn't have a whole lot of value we have.

1413
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: We called it rough land and the and woodlander, you know,

1414
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,560
Speaker 1: and when nobody referred to it as what really it was.

1415
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: You know, how do you extract something out of that

1416
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 1: land to make it worthwhile? Um? In my you know,

1417
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: since really when I was in my twenties and thirties,

1418
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: you could still farm around here and pay for a

1419
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 1: whole farm property. I mean, I know guys that my

1420
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: age that did that. But then they, of course they

1421
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 1: had to change over time, and as we know, a

1422
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: lot of small farms as also sort of got eight up.

1423
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: But now I can if I took you around this area,

1424
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: you see all I could show you all kinds of

1425
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: properties that aren't owned by you know, farmer Brown, that

1426
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: they're owned by whoever who then rents the crop land

1427
01:18:56,360 --> 01:19:00,080
Speaker 1: to farmer Brown, but they have it for recreation. All

1428
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: those folks didn't buy that land have a bunch of

1429
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 1: other people other than themselves, you know, on there. But

1430
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 1: those folks are a really important part of this too,

1431
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 1: because they tend to manage their land, um, you know

1432
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:17,640
Speaker 1: pretty well it might be specifically for the thing that

1433
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 1: they want, right deer, whatever that happens to be. Um,

1434
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: But you meet a lot of those folks that like

1435
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 1: private landowner workshop days and education days that are put

1436
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:32,320
Speaker 1: on by various NGOs and whatnot. And one of the

1437
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 1: things that I've noticed is that when I go to

1438
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,240
Speaker 1: those things is I'm a young landowner. Um. A lot

1439
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: of folks were older than me. And when they're trying

1440
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 1: to get work done on their property, you know, they're

1441
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: at this thing learning about invasive species control or timber

1442
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 1: stand improvement, or stream bank or you know riparian uh management.

1443
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 1: You know a lot of basic land management stuff that's

1444
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,600
Speaker 1: really important. Um. And they're like, what you're like to

1445
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: have this done? But I'm, you know, seventy five years old,

1446
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: and so how am I going to get that done?

1447
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: Am I gonna? And and so then there's programs that

1448
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: will help them hire people to come and do it. Um.

1449
01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 1: But I actually suggested recently to somebody who's asking me

1450
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: about meat and landowners, is that you know what, take

1451
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 1: some of those class some of those field days, and

1452
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 1: that's a place where when a landowner says that, that's

1453
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: when you raise your hands. I came here today to

1454
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 1: learn about invasive species control and timber stand improvement, and

1455
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 1: I would be interested in coming and doing some work

1456
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 1: on somebody's property, doing this kind of work, and I'm

1457
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,640
Speaker 1: going to learn how to do it in exchange for

1458
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: the opportunity to access that land for whatever reason. Well

1459
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: the obvious ones hunting right as opposed to a straight

1460
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:50,600
Speaker 1: lease that now here's some money and then I'll have

1461
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: access to the property, because doesn't it that feels as

1462
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: you said earlier, it feels extractive. I'm paying you to

1463
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: extract these things. I'm gonna put some tree stands up,

1464
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna come here and do anything other

1465
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 1: than make sure the deer is still around. You know,

1466
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:06,599
Speaker 1: in most cases, You know, I certainly had leases where

1467
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:10,000
Speaker 1: I did some work and but it wasn't as intimate,

1468
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: or it wasn't as it didn't feel like as cooperative

1469
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: as it would be in a case like you mentioning, well, yeah,

1470
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: so you and I've talked about this privately before. But

1471
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: you know, Eldo Leopold, one of both of our heroes,

1472
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 1: UM started this thing near Verona, Wisconsin. It was called

1473
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 1: the Riley Game Cooperative. And it's interesting because it's not

1474
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: really there's not a lot of information out there about it,

1475
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 1: Like there is a sand County Almanact. But these two

1476
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 1: um and and the property that he bought, the farm

1477
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 1: that he bought and rehabbed, and that's what Sand County

1478
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: is about, and where the Eldo Leopold Foundation has um

1479
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: I had about the same time, he's taking a drive

1480
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 1: outside of Madison, um at this area called Verona, big

1481
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: grassland bottoms, and he's looking for a place to go

1482
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 1: Pheasant High and and uh he stops and starts talking

1483
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 1: to this farmer and asked him, hey, you know, what

1484
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: are the chances. And the guy's like, oh, you know, yeah,

1485
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 1: I'd let you go, but you know, we have a

1486
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 1: lot of because you stopped and ask I'll let you go.

1487
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: And he's but he starts kind of saying, hey, I've

1488
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: been having some issues here, you know, with trespassers and

1489
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 1: people coming in and so there aren't many birds around

1490
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. And so it's you know,

1491
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: not me and Leopold who's developing his management philosophies at

1492
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 1: that at those times, at that time private land management

1493
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,680
Speaker 1: philosophy says, you know, um, my buddies and I are

1494
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: kind of looking for a place to hunt. How about

1495
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: we come out here and we do some things too,

1496
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,679
Speaker 1: and explained who he was and what he knew about

1497
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: and all that. We came out. We come out. We'll

1498
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: come out here and do some improve makes some improvements

1499
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 1: to your proper um, improve the habitat for game birds.

1500
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 1: UM will help you with trespassers, um. And I held

1501
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 1: the Leopold put up no trespassing signs. Maybe that's why

1502
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 1: the Riley James talked about him, UM and and and

1503
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: eventually became a classroom of private land. UM. You know,

1504
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 1: improvements in the way people can cooperate. And so this

1505
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 1: thing called the Ready Game Cooperative came out of that.

1506
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 1: And so it was a group of university professors and

1507
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:23,599
Speaker 1: some other folks from Madison who would go out there

1508
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: and work on these farms, you know, plant stuff in

1509
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 1: the habitat and the fence rows, help with chores around

1510
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: the property, have the pay the the kids of the

1511
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 1: farmer to raise uh two hatch and raise pheasant eggs

1512
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: right along when they're doing their chickens and all of that,

1513
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:44,759
Speaker 1: and then putting them out there. And they're improving this property.

1514
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,639
Speaker 1: And it grew from one farm, this guy Ruben Paulson's

1515
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 1: farm in Leopold to I think at eleven farms out

1516
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 1: there eventually, and that's and you know, the expenses were

1517
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: born by the people who were um benefiting from it.

1518
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 1: Most of the people are hunting. But but the big

1519
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 1: thing where they were putting into it was was sweat equity.

1520
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: So there was an exchange because there was a recognition

1521
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 1: that this is valuable and have an access to land.

1522
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 1: Private land, republic land is valuable too, it's just not

1523
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: as you know, controlled so on private land of course,

1524
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 1: it is very controllable, and there's value to that. And

1525
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: now and you know, as we've talked about, there's more

1526
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: value to it now than ever land is purchased around here,

1527
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 1: not for any return on investment. There's nothing I could

1528
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 1: do on that four acres of our of our front

1529
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 1: in terms of farming that would justify what we could

1530
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: sell it for on the open market. Um. And that's

1531
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 1: really changed in a generation. Yeah. Well, and you think

1532
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 1: Leopold and Paulson were talking about this, it's not like

1533
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,599
Speaker 1: it really had to be a community thing because it's

1534
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 1: not like they could get on the internet and go

1535
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: into message boards and say hey guys, what I'd like

1536
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: to do? Hey, community co op, We're gonna start a

1537
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: community co op here. They didn't that they were. They

1538
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 1: was who they knew and the like. The community had

1539
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,719
Speaker 1: to come together to eventually do that. And I remember

1540
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:14,560
Speaker 1: reading that they would have like dinners. They would do

1541
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of work in the summertime and then have dinners.

1542
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 1: Like Leopold invited some of the university students to come

1543
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 1: and study and do senses work and stuff on the

1544
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: came a classroom. Really Yeah, and all of that was

1545
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: born from him, right, his initiative and telling people about this,

1546
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:34,599
Speaker 1: and it being appealing even then for people to come

1547
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: and be part of it. Yeah, and uh, and then

1548
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: again amazingly, at the same time, he's a university professor

1549
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 1: and he's rehabilitating the old firm where you know, he

1550
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 1: wrote about the sand on the San County Almanac and

1551
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: where the shock is and and all that fabulous property

1552
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: and you must come and visit. It's on the list

1553
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 1: for sure. Uh. What an interesting you know perspective on that.

1554
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,600
Speaker 1: He didn't expect that he was going to knock on

1555
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 1: the farmer's door and say, hey, mind if I go

1556
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 1: hunting out here, you know, ask that favor. He His

1557
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: approach was, I'm gonna ask you for a favor, but

1558
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: I want to do one in return. And they got

1559
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: pretty specific about it. Um. Yeah, you're right. They had

1560
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:30,640
Speaker 1: these dinners. They he kept meticulous records of harvests, and

1561
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 1: it was all stuff that they did because of course

1562
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 1: it was you know, part of his study. UM. And

1563
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 1: it really went on until the time of his death

1564
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: and a little bit after. And then there's that thing.

1565
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 1: World War Two was in the middle of all that,

1566
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: you know, kind of change things a little bit. But UM,

1567
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 1: I had the good fortune of meeting uh a fellow

1568
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: by named Jeane Rourke who as a kid was a

1569
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: part of it. UM. He since passed, but you know,

1570
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:01,560
Speaker 1: family of he was a university professor and then his

1571
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 1: son's forrest Or. You know, it's pretty interesting people that

1572
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 1: those connections are still around. UM and I I've spent

1573
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 1: a lot of time speaking with the folks at the

1574
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:19,679
Speaker 1: Leopold Foundation about this and other conservation ideas. And there's

1575
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 1: this stand Temple, who actually had the same position that

1576
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 1: Leopold had at the university, has written a couple of

1577
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 1: articles about it. But it's hard to find a whole

1578
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 1: lot about the cooperative the right of the game cooperative. Um,

1579
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:36,439
Speaker 1: but it's fascinating and I and I asked him, well,

1580
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:41,600
Speaker 1: why do you think it didn't continue? It kind of

1581
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: fell apart a few years after Leopold's death, and he said, well,

1582
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 1: some of it was Leopold kept it together because he

1583
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 1: was sort of the center of it. And you know

1584
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 1: how any kind of I mean, you can imagine it

1585
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 1: was held to Leopold for God's sakes. I mean, of

1586
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 1: course he would keep something going and would be very

1587
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 1: different after he was gone. But is there somehow that

1588
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: we can take that idea and apply it to private

1589
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: land in places and with people who are receptive to

1590
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: the idea of cooperating on both ends of the deal

1591
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: of the landowner and the access seeker. And you know,

1592
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 1: and there'll be a fair h understanding of conservation. Um,

1593
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, like mindedness of conservation, and you sort of,

1594
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, match people up, Um, like minded folks.

1595
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 1: Not every property is going to is going to be

1596
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 1: the same that have like minded How can we get

1597
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: like minded folks that kind of opportunity? How can we

1598
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:47,680
Speaker 1: build that? Yeah? I mean you think of like a

1599
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: lot a lot of that, A lot of things you

1600
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 1: read in the same County Almanac. A lot of things

1601
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 1: that that were philosophies and ideologies and kind of we're

1602
01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:59,799
Speaker 1: applied and some not even applied by the well they

1603
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 1: they translate today you and I could still sit here

1604
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 1: and talk about them and go apply them to your

1605
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:08,800
Speaker 1: farm or the back forty years. So the land ethic

1606
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: that was kind of spurred on by the Riley and

1607
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 1: other places still has I'm sure energy in your area

1608
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 1: of the world, but it has energy through conservations up today.

1609
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 1: And we're way more connected than we ever were. We're

1610
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 1: probably too connected. We need to maybe back off a

1611
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 1: little bit, but we're so connected. There's so many things

1612
01:29:29,479 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: we can do to connect the people that need to

1613
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 1: do it. And I love that you brought this up

1614
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: to because I've been thinking about this. Isn't it that

1615
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 1: the people that are gonna want to be in a

1616
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 1: part of a game cooperative, at least initially, are gonna

1617
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,520
Speaker 1: be those family farmers, are going to be the generational

1618
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: landowners who who didn't purchase this property ten years ago

1619
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: to hunt deer or to just make a little money,

1620
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 1: flip and make a little money. Are the people that

1621
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 1: are invested in a prod a piece of land for

1622
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: for like you are for many any generations, aren't those

1623
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 1: the folks that are initially gonna want to be a

1624
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:05,680
Speaker 1: part of something like this and have a more of

1625
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 1: a reason to want to see their place kept up.

1626
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 1: I think so. Um, you know, on our on our property.

1627
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:16,280
Speaker 1: Like I said, I happened to be the the steward

1628
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:19,320
Speaker 1: of this generation. And this is my generation. Is the

1629
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:23,879
Speaker 1: first time that this farm didn't have to pay for itself.

1630
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: You know, my folks bought it from my grandparents, bought

1631
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:29,880
Speaker 1: it from my great band parents, and we didn't none

1632
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 1: of us had to buy it from my folks. Um,

1633
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 1: mostly because we've all worked out there. For I grew

1634
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 1: up in town, but the farms a couple of miles

1635
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 1: away we grew up. We worked on that farm for

1636
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 1: one of My father used to say things like for

1637
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 1: a roof over your head, right, And I remember resenting

1638
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 1: that even in high school, you know that, having to

1639
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: ask for a couple of bucks to go to the

1640
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:56,599
Speaker 1: movies or whatever, and um, because we literally didn't get paid.

1641
01:30:57,400 --> 01:30:59,760
Speaker 1: And uh, but man, all these years later, we have

1642
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 1: a property and it doesn't owe us anything. There's no

1643
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 1: I don't. All it has to be is financially viable UM.

1644
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 1: And I think that that's probably part of why philosophically,

1645
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:17,720
Speaker 1: my family, my siblings and I have opened up to

1646
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:20,679
Speaker 1: this idea as long as we can make this financially viable,

1647
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:26,360
Speaker 1: that yeah, let's share it with folks UM. And so

1648
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: we've done that. You know, it's this is I've been

1649
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:32,680
Speaker 1: for the last two or three years experimenting with this

1650
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 1: idea of having people come to the farm UM and

1651
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 1: having welcoming him as a part of the hunting group.

1652
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: Some in some cases they're just coming for like a

1653
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:45,680
Speaker 1: one shot deal, right UM. In other cases, now I've

1654
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,720
Speaker 1: developed some longer relationships with folks who are hunting with us,

1655
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 1: who are accessing the farm UM in exchange for you know,

1656
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:57,799
Speaker 1: fair fair work. And some of it's you know, working

1657
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:01,040
Speaker 1: with me and we're talking about cons servation and they

1658
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,760
Speaker 1: try to do things that are a little quieter, so

1659
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 1: we're not like running equipment and chainsaws and stuff. But

1660
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: uh and and you know, you kind of develop a

1661
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:12,720
Speaker 1: relationship with a person who and then you're telling them

1662
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: about your property and they are learning about that, and

1663
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 1: they're learning about conservation and developing a appreciation for it.

1664
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,200
Speaker 1: UM and you know, I've been doing this with I've

1665
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 1: been sharing the farm with a lot of folks over

1666
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: the last several years. And what I've kind of boiled

1667
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 1: it down to ben is I want to share the

1668
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 1: place with people who are making a contribution to conservation,

1669
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: so it doesn't even necessarily have to be something on

1670
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 1: the farm. M In my case, I have a friend

1671
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 1: and also I have a friend who is really into

1672
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,599
Speaker 1: trout fishing. He's like, hey, man, if some people want

1673
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:52,200
Speaker 1: to do if they do they or work or whatever

1674
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:55,320
Speaker 1: on a trout stream publicly and trout stream, I'll give

1675
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 1: them access to my place for turkey hunting in the spring.

1676
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 1: Now that's a cool idea. You know, our friends at

1677
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: the what's call now the National Deer Association, Yeah, newly

1678
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:12,680
Speaker 1: meanted the National Deer Association, they've had this. They've done

1679
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 1: these cooperative ideas for a while, but those were more

1680
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: like a cooperative of neighbors um and then having sort

1681
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 1: of cooperative ideas about how we're going to manage deer

1682
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 1: and you know, habitat and that sort of stuff. While

1683
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 1: this spoils is down a lot more UM and you

1684
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,840
Speaker 1: can understand why all the what all the different landowners

1685
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,320
Speaker 1: or neighbors would have invested in it, right because they

1686
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 1: own a piece of property or they're a part of

1687
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 1: the piece of property. Well, we're talking about boiling that

1688
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 1: down a little bit further. Um. So it's really interesting

1689
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,599
Speaker 1: to me to share the land with people of all

1690
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:55,639
Speaker 1: sort of stripes. Um. But they all are doing doing

1691
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:57,680
Speaker 1: that one thing. They're making a contribution, some of it

1692
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: on the farm. I mean everything from carpenter to to

1693
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 1: fix and fence. Um. And listen the kind of expectations

1694
01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 1: that you know that I have. Yeah, I mean there's

1695
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's examples of this. There's certainly block management

1696
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: in um Montana where there's Type one and Type two

1697
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:24,080
Speaker 1: block management areas, which is essentially the state and the

1698
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:27,679
Speaker 1: landowner have an agreement that there's a list of rules

1699
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: that hunters must have bide by, and then there's certain

1700
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 1: dates and they set all the stipulations and hunters can

1701
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:35,200
Speaker 1: go sign a little piece of paper, usually at the

1702
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,600
Speaker 1: front gate of the properties saying here I am and

1703
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 1: here's where I'm hunting, and then you're free to use

1704
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:45,439
Speaker 1: that that area is designated. The problem with that is,

1705
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no real problem. But the thing that

1706
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 1: I like about Your version of this is that it's

1707
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 1: more intimate. It requires a real connection with the person.

1708
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 1: And I grew up hunting a small organic farm when

1709
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I never if you would have

1710
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:07,120
Speaker 1: asked me, was that yours as a kid, I probably said, well,

1711
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 1: as partly mine, Like I hunted there my whole life.

1712
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 1: I shared. I knew the landowners. We shared great times

1713
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:16,200
Speaker 1: with the landowners, We hunted with their kids. We're kind

1714
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 1: of a part of their family farm. And that intimate

1715
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:23,719
Speaker 1: connection helped me understand the trade off for them as farmers,

1716
01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 1: well what we could do to help them crop damage,

1717
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 1: permits and all that kind of stuff. So that was

1718
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:30,799
Speaker 1: part of my childhood. I was part of that farm

1719
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 1: as much as much for the landowner as for me.

1720
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:37,800
Speaker 1: You know, people come to your farm, they teach their

1721
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 1: kids to hunt there, they become part of your farm

1722
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:44,360
Speaker 1: and vice versa. And so that's the thing I love

1723
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,800
Speaker 1: about it. And I get fired up about this idea

1724
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: because I think we're in it. We need it. We

1725
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 1: need it as Americans. We need to know each other better,

1726
01:35:53,200 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 1: We need to to give each other things and and

1727
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:59,640
Speaker 1: trade and feel as if the reciprocation as possible. And

1728
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 1: this in age, and so I love this idea. I

1729
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:06,360
Speaker 1: think it it would show people what you know, hunting

1730
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:09,719
Speaker 1: and land really has to offer, not only good wild

1731
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 1: meat and good adventure and good times outside, but also

1732
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: a connection that we need. We have to have, um,

1733
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:18,280
Speaker 1: and you can't have it through a b M a

1734
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:20,000
Speaker 1: in Montana where you just sign your name on a

1735
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 1: piece of paper and go hunt. You know whose land

1736
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:24,160
Speaker 1: that is, you know, you don't know anything about it.

1737
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:29,679
Speaker 1: And so I I love the idea. I think it's

1738
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:32,640
Speaker 1: a I think it's your idea too. I look at

1739
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 1: it as your I'm like, that's Doug's ship. Nobody steal

1740
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:40,720
Speaker 1: it because I'll smack you. Well, I'm just borrowing it too. Man.

1741
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 1: Um the Leopold idea, you know, it's interesting. Where I'm

1742
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:47,759
Speaker 1: sitting here in Casino, VI, Wisconsin is about halfway between

1743
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 1: the Leopold Farm on the Wisconsin River about thirty miles away.

1744
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:56,639
Speaker 1: And then and uh Frank laid Rags tally Esen, which

1745
01:36:56,720 --> 01:37:00,240
Speaker 1: is about thirty miles away in the other direction. And

1746
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:07,320
Speaker 1: to um, you know, really influential people in in my thinking.

1747
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: Frank laid Wright, who was an interesting character and you

1748
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:12,120
Speaker 1: can read about about him and you know, it's a

1749
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 1: brilliant architect and all that. But his um school, the

1750
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 1: tally us In School of Architecture that was at Talies

1751
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: and was a hands on learning experience for people who

1752
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 1: are also working with the master, right, I mean, they're

1753
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:30,320
Speaker 1: learning about architecture and all that, but they're also learning

1754
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:34,439
Speaker 1: about they're also learning about, you know, building with rock

1755
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 1: and structure, and they were going out and actually building

1756
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:40,920
Speaker 1: tali Us and they all if you go through tali

1757
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: Es and you'll see these different sections done essentially done

1758
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:49,040
Speaker 1: by different people at Frankly Wright's direction and his work,

1759
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 1: his his crap, his artisan's direction, and so there's a

1760
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of ways of looking at that.

1761
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:56,880
Speaker 1: It was like, hell, Frankly, right, guys, you got his

1762
01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,640
Speaker 1: health built for nothing. You know, here's t labor and

1763
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. But that's really what it is, right,

1764
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:08,599
Speaker 1: It's an experience. There isn't an exchange, um I mean.

1765
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 1: And so I just felt that that was kind of

1766
01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 1: something that I was when I learned about tell Us

1767
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:16,920
Speaker 1: and the Architecture school and I went through that, and

1768
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 1: then Leopold and the Rady Game Cooperative. This seems to

1769
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: be like it's halfway in between. And apparently that's what

1770
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:28,640
Speaker 1: Kasovia means that you know, certainly it is halfway in

1771
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 1: between all of that. And um, I just think that

1772
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 1: those you know, there's gonna be guys that that they're

1773
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 1: just gonna want to lease some land or they're gonna

1774
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 1: want to pay us for a hunt, and and that's cool,

1775
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 1: you know outfitters guides land leases. Well, I'll tell you

1776
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 1: a little secret. I actually it's not a secret at all.

1777
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:52,320
Speaker 1: It's an open secret. Steve's mentioned it before. I lease

1778
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:55,920
Speaker 1: our farm for twelve days to a group of guys

1779
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:59,240
Speaker 1: for bow hunt. They get first crack at the deer

1780
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 1: and the and the whole thing with bow hunting. They

1781
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 1: pick out their days and it's a big old both

1782
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 1: season here in Wisconsin, and their time is over with

1783
01:39:06,479 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 1: um for this year. And they love it because they

1784
01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 1: are getting that connection to our property. They're coming there

1785
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:14,280
Speaker 1: and I'm you know, I do a few things for him.

1786
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,240
Speaker 1: They're figuring it out on their own. I'm not guiding them.

1787
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm not outfitting them anything. They have access to a

1788
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:22,639
Speaker 1: place to stay and then it's them out there figure

1789
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 1: in that place out and there, and they they're paying

1790
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:27,800
Speaker 1: for that, and my partners in the business, you know,

1791
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:31,599
Speaker 1: in the farm, the LLC, the business love it because

1792
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,720
Speaker 1: there's a revenue stream and they you know, they have said,

1793
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:36,680
Speaker 1: but let's this hunting thing worth you know, because not

1794
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: all of my siblings are hunters. And I'm like, well,

1795
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 1: it can help with the property taxes and utilities and

1796
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:47,680
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Cool, So I'm doing that. And

1797
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 1: then that which is not a traditional lease at all, right,

1798
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:52,639
Speaker 1: I mean usually at least property autleast a year round

1799
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:54,160
Speaker 1: and you get to do all kinds of stuff, probably

1800
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 1: the things that the kind of thing that you talked about,

1801
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:59,560
Speaker 1: or an outfitter or guide leases it and then he

1802
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 1: bringing people in every couple of weeks and doing those

1803
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 1: kind of hunts so that these guys have it, they're

1804
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:06,560
Speaker 1: part of the thing. They've been doing this for a

1805
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:10,360
Speaker 1: few years now and it's great. And then after that,

1806
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:15,360
Speaker 1: I've got I've got some you know, friends who hunt

1807
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:20,200
Speaker 1: the property um bow hunted, um. Some friends that do

1808
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:23,880
Speaker 1: who contribute to the farmer, contribute to conservation. Um. Family.

1809
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, we're about to have gun season is going

1810
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 1: to be here on Saturday, and my my brother and

1811
01:40:28,800 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 1: two nephews are gonna be here this first time. We're

1812
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:34,200
Speaker 1: gonna hunt together in three or four years, and so

1813
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:36,519
Speaker 1: I don't have a whole lot. I mean, between that

1814
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:38,639
Speaker 1: and COVID, we're not having a whole lot of guests

1815
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:40,840
Speaker 1: for the first part of the gun season. We're gonna

1816
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:44,160
Speaker 1: on the back end, we're gonna have you know, a few, um,

1817
01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:45,560
Speaker 1: but on the front end, it's going to kind of

1818
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 1: be in a family thing. And then as you move

1819
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:51,280
Speaker 1: down the way, there's a little more opportunity for access.

1820
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 1: And so if you, um, you can kind of combine

1821
01:40:57,280 --> 01:41:02,680
Speaker 1: all these things, you know, with an attitude of you know,

1822
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 1: of sharing. Um. I think that landowners, like you said,

1823
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:09,960
Speaker 1: can balance that over over a period of time. Yeah,

1824
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 1: And like you said that, there certainly can be choice.

1825
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:16,519
Speaker 1: People can choose to just say, hey, you know what,

1826
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 1: I'd rather do pay money to lesa place and not

1827
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:20,720
Speaker 1: have to worry about doing any work or getting to

1828
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:23,679
Speaker 1: know anybody. You know, I'd rather just lease it hunted

1829
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:26,040
Speaker 1: for two weeks a year. I got that extra money.

1830
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 1: It's perfect. I'm not gonna abuse the place. It's not

1831
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 1: going to abuse me in terms of the cost um

1832
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:34,760
Speaker 1: And that's okay. UM. But I think what you're talking about,

1833
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 1: and what the riley was was much more than that.

1834
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 1: And I think it obviously as the as the ride,

1835
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:43,439
Speaker 1: the game cooperative grew, it grew organically a group through

1836
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:47,519
Speaker 1: Leopold's through his efforts and through his connections, then through

1837
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:52,360
Speaker 1: his sensibilities. So you know, I think it Yeah, and

1838
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 1: folks seeing that it worked. I mean it ended up

1839
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:59,479
Speaker 1: spreading to eleven farmers, but it started with one, and

1840
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:01,400
Speaker 1: then people like, what are you doing over there? Yeah,

1841
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:02,640
Speaker 1: I'd like to do that. Well, are there are more

1842
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:04,880
Speaker 1: people who want to do that? Yeah? There are well,

1843
01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:06,800
Speaker 1: and and so you know you can kind of keep

1844
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 1: that going. Um, and so that one of the things

1845
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,400
Speaker 1: that we committed to as a family is to keep

1846
01:42:14,439 --> 01:42:19,080
Speaker 1: our farm financially viable. Think about I mean literally thinking

1847
01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:23,719
Speaker 1: about a hundred years down the road. Um uh, sharing

1848
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:27,760
Speaker 1: it with others, being a good example, and doing the

1849
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:30,960
Speaker 1: quote unquote right thing. All of those things are all

1850
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:35,639
Speaker 1: combined into one, you know, um, one big old ball

1851
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 1: that different parts of it are emphasized at different times. Yeah,

1852
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's important. So you know, I've

1853
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:45,360
Speaker 1: been thinking, I know you and I've been talking about

1854
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:48,800
Speaker 1: ways to make this happen. You know, there's other people

1855
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 1: in the industry that support you, obviously, UM, companies, individuals.

1856
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:58,880
Speaker 1: I just feel like the pump is primed too, can

1857
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 1: at least perfect. I had a place digitally that sets

1858
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,320
Speaker 1: the guidelines, that says like he here are the ways

1859
01:43:06,439 --> 01:43:08,880
Speaker 1: that we do this. You know, this is how our

1860
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 1: this is how our approach works. You could do whatever

1861
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:14,240
Speaker 1: you want outside of this, but if you want to

1862
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 1: get involved in this, this is how this approach works,

1863
01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:20,880
Speaker 1: very much informed by Leopold and the Riley, and gives

1864
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:23,360
Speaker 1: people a place to connect with each other, you know,

1865
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:25,560
Speaker 1: and find each other and sign up for something and

1866
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:29,680
Speaker 1: do the work, document the work that's being done. UM.

1867
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,760
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've really liked about, Like

1868
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:37,320
Speaker 1: yesterday after the back forty episode came out, I went

1869
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 1: on too the YouTube thing and answered, you know, just

1870
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:40,760
Speaker 1: kind of commented with some of the things that and

1871
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 1: people are hungry for that. And then people are there's

1872
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 1: input to right, I mean, like they want their input

1873
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:53,599
Speaker 1: when the cooperative idea. I mean, I'm not sitting out

1874
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:55,720
Speaker 1: at my farm going okay, folks, this is what we're

1875
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 1: gonna do, and this is how you're gonna do it.

1876
01:43:57,120 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 1: And then this is what you're gonna and I mean

1877
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:01,720
Speaker 1: people want to learned from me, but the thing that

1878
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:07,479
Speaker 1: they're gonna learn from me is an attitude of that

1879
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:13,560
Speaker 1: of that owning the property is there's work. It's not

1880
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 1: just extraction. It is management and then and you have

1881
01:44:17,120 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 1: to figure it out and your management has to be adapted.

1882
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:23,519
Speaker 1: So a part of that is, you know, I'm not

1883
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:26,320
Speaker 1: like waving a magic wand and saying or or you know,

1884
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:28,840
Speaker 1: I am used to be when it comes to hunting

1885
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:30,679
Speaker 1: and some of the things used to be on the farm,

1886
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 1: there were two rules. The captain's are doug as the captain,

1887
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:38,000
Speaker 1: and the captain is always right right, um and uh.

1888
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:40,760
Speaker 1: And there was a certain degree that that's still the truth.

1889
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:44,479
Speaker 1: But I'm like, you know, wanting to give that up more.

1890
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:48,519
Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, I'm it all hits me, right, I mean,

1891
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm the manager of this this property. But it's really

1892
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 1: interesting to me when I have folks out like these

1893
01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:56,880
Speaker 1: guys who leaves from me, um, and then some of

1894
01:44:56,960 --> 01:44:59,360
Speaker 1: these other folks who've been who come out and some

1895
01:44:59,439 --> 01:45:02,560
Speaker 1: of them are wildlife ecologists and habitat of collegists, and

1896
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:04,680
Speaker 1: some of them are plumbers, and some of them are

1897
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,320
Speaker 1: are carpenters and you know all that, but they have

1898
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:14,800
Speaker 1: their their ideas are welcome, and their experience on that

1899
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 1: property to me is really interesting and they can say, well,

1900
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 1: this is what I saw and you know, the first

1901
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 1: suggestion everybody has someone I know, they're really interested. Hey,

1902
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think if we just moved that stand

1903
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:32,920
Speaker 1: ten yards up there hill, that's the that's the key

1904
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 1: to everything. But that's sort of the beginning thing, right.

1905
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 1: You know, they're out there observing because that's what I

1906
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,519
Speaker 1: encourage them to do. And I come in with, you know,

1907
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:44,320
Speaker 1: ideas and do you know what you know? Multi floor roses?

1908
01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:46,560
Speaker 1: Do you know what prickly ashes? Do you know what

1909
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: autumn oblive is? Do you know what an elm tree is?

1910
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:51,960
Speaker 1: Do you know? Do you know what these things are

1911
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,839
Speaker 1: and how they relate to that area where you're hunting?

1912
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 1: And they have to have a an opportunity to kind

1913
01:45:58,479 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 1: of spend some time on the property to learn that stuff.

1914
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's transferable, the knowledge is transferable, but by

1915
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:06,720
Speaker 1: that intimacy that you can end up having with the

1916
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:09,479
Speaker 1: property when you go, well don't those pine trees need

1917
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:12,320
Speaker 1: to be thin? Um? You know that they can start

1918
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:14,040
Speaker 1: thinking about that sort of Hey, and I'll help you

1919
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 1: come out and do that. That's the kind of stuff

1920
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:19,519
Speaker 1: I think is really cool when people I've had people

1921
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:21,800
Speaker 1: start saying it seems to me you need some help

1922
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:25,760
Speaker 1: with Yeah, I mean, like like you said, when you

1923
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:27,760
Speaker 1: start something like this. I think b h is a

1924
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:30,479
Speaker 1: good example of this. And they're not the only group

1925
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:33,600
Speaker 1: that is fighting for public lands. Your hats is TRCP.

1926
01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:35,640
Speaker 1: They do a ton of work, but they do it

1927
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:38,320
Speaker 1: they do it in a different manner, and that and

1928
01:46:38,479 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 1: that's necessary manner. It's more d C, it's more insider,

1929
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:46,800
Speaker 1: it's it's more hit. The legislation b h A has

1930
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 1: built a community of people across the country. You have

1931
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:53,719
Speaker 1: kind of the same value system, or a similar value system,

1932
01:46:53,720 --> 01:46:56,240
Speaker 1: at least when you apply it to public lands. And

1933
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 1: I think you could do that with the game cooperative

1934
01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:02,120
Speaker 1: and you know something that that brings people together around

1935
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:05,320
Speaker 1: an idea that doesn't necessarily have to be applied the

1936
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:08,479
Speaker 1: exact same way in every place, but at least the idea.

1937
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:11,479
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different things in Wisconsin that that

1938
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:15,240
Speaker 1: b h A local chapters do that the guys in

1939
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:17,560
Speaker 1: California don't do, or the guys in Texas, don't do

1940
01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 1: Each state chapter that I've worked with kind of has

1941
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 1: a different thing to champion, but that all is wrapped

1942
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:27,360
Speaker 1: in public lands and in this idea, I'm like, man,

1943
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:30,120
Speaker 1: you could do the same thing. Or if you just said,

1944
01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:32,880
Speaker 1: here are the ideas and the value system that this

1945
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:37,120
Speaker 1: is wrapped in and what we're trying to achieve, it's

1946
01:47:37,200 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 1: regionally gonna look different, but it should. It should feel

1947
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:43,599
Speaker 1: the same, and it should have the same intent. Yeah,

1948
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,320
Speaker 1: like a framework, there needs to be weed to develop

1949
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 1: a framework of you know, here's the general idea. Here

1950
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:54,160
Speaker 1: the input. You know, you have to assess needs and

1951
01:47:54,320 --> 01:48:00,200
Speaker 1: operat and what and and identify opportunities that private land um,

1952
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:08,000
Speaker 1: private landowners would be open to UM. Yeah like Christians

1953
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:11,719
Speaker 1: like Christians only dot com like a dating site except

1954
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 1: for landowners and and potential hunters and and folks don't

1955
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 1: want to use that land man. Uh yeah, I can

1956
01:48:20,479 --> 01:48:23,680
Speaker 1: really see I see this as a great opportunity and I, um,

1957
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 1: I hope that's something that we can continue to work on. UM.

1958
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: The you know, it could really be a monster, but

1959
01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:38,080
Speaker 1: a framework that's repeatable and movable is what I see

1960
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:42,880
Speaker 1: it as. And then a place to connect. Yeah. Yeah,

1961
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,400
Speaker 1: I think it's more profound, like I think it, you know,

1962
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,240
Speaker 1: I think it has an opportunity to be organic and

1963
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 1: and profound in that way, you know, for for people

1964
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:55,120
Speaker 1: to really understand the need for this. I'm passionate about

1965
01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 1: the need for it. I know there's a need for it.

1966
01:48:57,080 --> 01:48:58,680
Speaker 1: I know there's plenty of people listening right now that

1967
01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:00,519
Speaker 1: wish they had a website they could to and look

1968
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:03,400
Speaker 1: around for landowners that were looking for somebody to clean

1969
01:49:03,479 --> 01:49:06,479
Speaker 1: the chicken coop and you know, hit the drill on

1970
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:09,559
Speaker 1: the back on the back for you there, and it's

1971
01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: for a chance to go for a chance to go

1972
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:15,200
Speaker 1: shoot a pheasantor a turkey. I mean, I just know

1973
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:18,439
Speaker 1: that there is and I know they need it more

1974
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:20,959
Speaker 1: than they know they needed. I know that the landowner

1975
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:23,320
Speaker 1: needs that. They need to see a community of people

1976
01:49:23,840 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 1: reaching outside I want to help. They need to see that,

1977
01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:30,679
Speaker 1: and the people need to see that these landowners want

1978
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 1: them there too at some level, you know, in the

1979
01:49:33,160 --> 01:49:36,599
Speaker 1: right way well, and that they appreciated each other. Um

1980
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:41,080
Speaker 1: that uh that that you know, here's a here's a

1981
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:43,640
Speaker 1: great part of the reason that I've kind of evolved,

1982
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:46,160
Speaker 1: if that's the word, right, I mean people still they

1983
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:50,240
Speaker 1: We've been replaying my first media where we talked about

1984
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 1: to Somewhere in the Sunbrero and buck management all that

1985
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 1: we've never had a real strict buck management program, but um,

1986
01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 1: and hell, truth be known, we probably managed you know

1987
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:07,000
Speaker 1: for bigger bucks now as as well as we ever have.

1988
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:09,360
Speaker 1: We just don't don't talk about it. I mean it's

1989
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 1: like you shoot that, you go ahead, the only rules

1990
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:13,880
Speaker 1: we have for hunting, or you know, take a a

1991
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:18,479
Speaker 1: good ethical shot, um, and we're going to celebrate whatever.

1992
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:22,360
Speaker 1: Here it is that you got our Phil Jr. Shot

1993
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:24,880
Speaker 1: at a little buck on the farm ten days ago

1994
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:31,840
Speaker 1: that antlers kind of looked like this sharpen but you

1995
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:42,760
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta somewhere. But um uh, the the where

1996
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:45,080
Speaker 1: I got, you know, thinking about this too was the

1997
01:50:45,160 --> 01:50:49,559
Speaker 1: idea because I've received some letters. You know, remember Mark

1998
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:52,560
Speaker 1: and Steve did a thing called podcast called Permissions. He

1999
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:54,200
Speaker 1: was like, well, how do you get permission? I remember

2000
01:50:54,240 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 1: Steve saying, man, I know I'm asking people for a favor. Um,

2001
01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: and yeah, I get that. Well what's the favor you're

2002
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 1: going to do in return? And um, you know I

2003
01:51:07,040 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 1: think that you know that's important and they they're talking

2004
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:11,640
Speaker 1: about it. How can you gain access, how can you

2005
01:51:11,680 --> 01:51:14,080
Speaker 1: get permission and stuff like that. Well, I think that

2006
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:18,640
Speaker 1: the number one thing, and that is recognizing the the

2007
01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:22,000
Speaker 1: value of it, um and I don't necessarily mean the

2008
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:25,400
Speaker 1: monetary value, but the you know, the attitudinal value. But

2009
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:27,560
Speaker 1: it bummed me out a little bit when I was

2010
01:51:27,680 --> 01:51:32,599
Speaker 1: reading some of the comments in those uh uh those

2011
01:51:32,640 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 1: podcasts notes where people are saying, oh, I always take

2012
01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:36,679
Speaker 1: my kids because you know, they're they're a little softer

2013
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:40,479
Speaker 1: when I asked permission, you know, it's a little a

2014
01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:43,000
Speaker 1: little easier. And Mark writes about how he did it,

2015
01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:45,240
Speaker 1: and but I guess my point is those things are

2016
01:51:45,920 --> 01:51:50,080
Speaker 1: gone one I think go on more and more. But um,

2017
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:52,800
Speaker 1: but the other part of it is it's freaking hard

2018
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: to do. And I've walked up the people. They don't

2019
01:51:55,439 --> 01:51:58,439
Speaker 1: knocked on doors, and it's just like, I mean, I

2020
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:00,680
Speaker 1: was in sales for a long time. I mean, you know,

2021
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:03,400
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty pretty confident when it comes to that

2022
01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:05,280
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. We get that sick feeling in your

2023
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:08,680
Speaker 1: stomach and you know that because you know the time

2024
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:12,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna get rejected. Yeah, you know, and most of

2025
01:52:12,680 --> 01:52:14,880
Speaker 1: the time, for good reason not just I'm not interested.

2026
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:16,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's usually we've got people hunt here. It's

2027
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:18,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's all that kind of stuff. I always

2028
01:52:18,479 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 1: say every lander has a nephew that hunts every landers like, well,

2029
01:52:22,920 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 1: my nephew hunts this spot, and you're like, well, thank you.

2030
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,200
Speaker 1: I know you all have. Is it the same nephew

2031
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:32,680
Speaker 1: that hunts every ranch? Yeah? Or they just don't want

2032
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 1: to deal with it, or yeah. Liability is an issue,

2033
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:40,320
Speaker 1: and that's actually something that has this idea develops that

2034
01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, it also be can be addressed. I've addressed

2035
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:46,440
Speaker 1: it on our farm. We actually carry an additional insurance

2036
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:52,479
Speaker 1: uh liability waiver and uh you know. The expectation is

2037
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:55,360
Speaker 1: when you're doing this kind of thing, the berry picker laws,

2038
01:52:55,479 --> 01:52:57,519
Speaker 1: they say, you do know fee allow people there can

2039
01:52:57,560 --> 01:53:00,479
Speaker 1: be an exchange up to a certain amount with all

2040
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 1: their being viability. The other part of it is I'm

2041
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:05,519
Speaker 1: not asking people around go hey, you know, not like

2042
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:10,920
Speaker 1: marak ask Market going run skids here. Well also too,

2043
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:13,639
Speaker 1: I mean when you think about that, over the years,

2044
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:16,320
Speaker 1: I've seen this play out. We and we talked about

2045
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:19,760
Speaker 1: this last week on the podcast Excuse Me. We had

2046
01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:22,519
Speaker 1: where we had a group of a hundred hunters and

2047
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't even know where these people knew hunters to

2048
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:28,920
Speaker 1: go and do this up and up near White Sulfur

2049
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:32,640
Speaker 1: Springs in Montana, a hundred hunters got together and surrounded

2050
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:34,800
Speaker 1: fifty elk or trying to the herd of elk, and

2051
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:37,640
Speaker 1: shot fifty all open fire at the same time and

2052
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:40,880
Speaker 1: shot fifty elk on this b m A and near

2053
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:44,439
Speaker 1: White Sulfur Springs in Montana. And the b M A is,

2054
01:53:44,479 --> 01:53:46,640
Speaker 1: like I explained earlier, this is a this is a

2055
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:48,920
Speaker 1: deal that the landowner has with the state to allow

2056
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:52,720
Speaker 1: hunting access. It's not managed. And these people went in

2057
01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:58,240
Speaker 1: there and just maraudered these elk um only recently. This

2058
01:53:58,360 --> 01:54:02,880
Speaker 1: happened recently a hundred and we're and we're thinking like that.

2059
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:06,000
Speaker 1: And obviously the Galt Ranches is a pretty famous around

2060
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:09,439
Speaker 1: Tier ranch up near that area, and the Galts, one

2061
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 1: of the Galt family members, was quoted as saying, like,

2062
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:13,800
Speaker 1: now I gotta think, am I going to stay on

2063
01:54:13,880 --> 01:54:15,960
Speaker 1: this b m A program? Am I gonna still allow

2064
01:54:16,439 --> 01:54:18,720
Speaker 1: these people to come in and hunt my property by

2065
01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:21,400
Speaker 1: just signing a piece of paper. That's what you know.

2066
01:54:21,439 --> 01:54:24,320
Speaker 1: When they walk in the door, Um. And so that's

2067
01:54:24,360 --> 01:54:26,040
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that you're fighting against when you

2068
01:54:26,080 --> 01:54:28,759
Speaker 1: go knock on somebody's door. The fact that a hundred

2069
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:31,960
Speaker 1: assholes in Montana one time, isn't that fucking crazy? Man?

2070
01:54:32,120 --> 01:54:35,240
Speaker 1: Like a hundred people, like, how do you get that together?

2071
01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:42,040
Speaker 1: That's like a small army. Who's I'll say, what, who's

2072
01:54:42,040 --> 01:54:43,840
Speaker 1: the who? Who was the guy who pulled that together?

2073
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 1: You know? That's what I was saying. What talking about

2074
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 1: a co operative? They called that the asshole cooperative? Everybody

2075
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:54,560
Speaker 1: gets together going to get a half of elk. Have

2076
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:56,920
Speaker 1: you ever seen that movie where they go knock loose

2077
01:54:57,280 --> 01:54:59,360
Speaker 1: like this is what that's what it is man fire

2078
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:05,160
Speaker 1: fire effects. But that's no idea that that's one of

2079
01:55:05,240 --> 01:55:09,400
Speaker 1: the things about as a private landowner, I don't want

2080
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:14,160
Speaker 1: to give up the control of my land and the

2081
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:17,520
Speaker 1: way in Wisconsin at least, and I don't have vast

2082
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:19,600
Speaker 1: experience in other parts of the country. But there's two

2083
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:24,200
Speaker 1: programs in Wisconsin. There's Managed Forest Law open and voluntary

2084
01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:28,200
Speaker 1: public access. And Managed Forest Law opens a tax incentive

2085
01:55:29,040 --> 01:55:32,440
Speaker 1: program that you pay less in taxes if you open

2086
01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:37,160
Speaker 1: it to public access. Um. There's some real issues with it.

2087
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:39,520
Speaker 1: We could have a whole discussion about but that's the

2088
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:42,440
Speaker 1: long and short of it. The problem with that is

2089
01:55:42,600 --> 01:55:44,840
Speaker 1: it's wide open open land. Now, if you're in a

2090
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:49,480
Speaker 1: county where the land is privately owned and five of

2091
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:51,520
Speaker 1: the hunting land is privately owning, there's five percent of

2092
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:54,360
Speaker 1: that public land that you know is getting pounded. Our

2093
01:55:54,440 --> 01:55:57,680
Speaker 1: dear friends said on X have provided us with the

2094
01:55:57,760 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 1: technology to go. There are some volunty very public acts.

2095
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,320
Speaker 1: I mean, that's fantastic because if it is open and

2096
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:06,920
Speaker 1: it isn't a program, then people should have access to it, right.

2097
01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,960
Speaker 1: So there's that, and then it's just another piece of

2098
01:56:11,120 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 1: wide open public land, and we in small areas it

2099
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:17,040
Speaker 1: can be nightmarish. I have a friend who I know,

2100
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 1: he's not going hunting this weekend with his um um

2101
01:56:22,440 --> 01:56:26,520
Speaker 1: wife because she's not comfortable on the small public land

2102
01:56:26,560 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 1: parcels parcels. He's going to go, but she's not going

2103
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:32,280
Speaker 1: to anyway. So he got that. And then voluntary public

2104
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:35,560
Speaker 1: access through funded by Pittman Robertson number is very similar.

2105
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:38,240
Speaker 1: In Wisconsin. It's wide open. It's not like you can

2106
01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:40,560
Speaker 1: control how many people go in there. It's either on

2107
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:45,720
Speaker 1: or off right. So what we're really talking about with

2108
01:56:45,800 --> 01:56:49,320
Speaker 1: this idea of a game cooperative is a longer term

2109
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:52,520
Speaker 1: relationship hopefully with or maybe just a one shot deal

2110
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:54,520
Speaker 1: and people kind of learn and then they move on

2111
01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:57,600
Speaker 1: and do their own thing. So it's a longer term

2112
01:56:57,640 --> 01:57:01,040
Speaker 1: relationship with that land and the land owner isn't given

2113
01:57:01,200 --> 01:57:06,120
Speaker 1: up the control of his proper of their property. Um.

2114
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:08,720
Speaker 1: You know, like when stuff goes wrong, and I can

2115
01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 1: tell you I won't get into the details of it all,

2116
01:57:11,120 --> 01:57:14,280
Speaker 1: but I've had issues with people that I have welcomed

2117
01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:18,880
Speaker 1: onto my property making bad decisions. Yeah, and I've had

2118
01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:23,040
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, that was a bad decision that you're

2119
01:57:23,080 --> 01:57:26,800
Speaker 1: not going to get the chance to repeat on this property. Yeah. Yeah,

2120
01:57:27,480 --> 01:57:29,080
Speaker 1: they told me one of those stories. I think that

2121
01:57:29,160 --> 01:57:32,120
Speaker 1: we were on the privat Applebee's talking about this exact

2122
01:57:32,160 --> 01:57:36,040
Speaker 1: same subject. And you know, you just hope that you

2123
01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:38,360
Speaker 1: hope that's not a hundred people shooting at a bunch

2124
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:43,120
Speaker 1: of help. I mean, you don't. Yeah, definitely not um,

2125
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:48,400
Speaker 1: And that was even that one particular instance was even

2126
01:57:48,680 --> 01:57:50,720
Speaker 1: mean ended up being on a learning experience for everybody

2127
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:53,800
Speaker 1: involved as well. Right, think that person, given the opportunity,

2128
01:57:53,840 --> 01:57:56,040
Speaker 1: will ever make that mistake again. But it's just unfortunate

2129
01:57:56,080 --> 01:57:58,440
Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to do it on Yeah.

2130
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:02,800
Speaker 1: Well yeah man, I think we you know, I know

2131
01:58:02,920 --> 01:58:05,520
Speaker 1: you know this, And I don't know how this this

2132
01:58:05,680 --> 01:58:12,280
Speaker 1: effort will take shape or exactly what um where we'll

2133
01:58:12,320 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 1: get with this, but I know that, you know, it's

2134
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:22,120
Speaker 1: my I would say, it's really I think about it

2135
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:24,440
Speaker 1: quite a lot. It's like a fervent thought that I

2136
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 1: have that this is something as much as the hunting

2137
01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:31,840
Speaker 1: community needed a decade ago, twelve years ago, fifteen years

2138
01:58:31,880 --> 01:58:34,720
Speaker 1: ago to to rally around public lands and realize what

2139
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:38,600
Speaker 1: they really are. You know, I think we've achieved that

2140
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:41,520
Speaker 1: in a lot of levels as a commune hunting community.

2141
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:45,000
Speaker 1: We now understand, we understand these things a little bit better.

2142
01:58:45,120 --> 01:58:47,080
Speaker 1: We have a value system in place for public lands.

2143
01:58:47,760 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 1: Whereas fifteen years ago public public lands where he didn't

2144
01:58:50,840 --> 01:58:53,200
Speaker 1: want to go a void a game, you know, it

2145
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:57,160
Speaker 1: was trash um. Now it kind of has a different

2146
01:58:57,240 --> 01:59:01,200
Speaker 1: system scaffolding around it that that allows us to understand

2147
01:59:01,240 --> 01:59:04,200
Speaker 1: it better. And I think this idea that of access

2148
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:07,400
Speaker 1: to private land, I think we need, we we can

2149
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:11,080
Speaker 1: and need to do that as well. There's many there's

2150
01:59:11,160 --> 01:59:13,880
Speaker 1: there's like a private land lease association. I think for

2151
01:59:14,040 --> 01:59:17,680
Speaker 1: a hunting lease association, there's yeah, there's a bunch of

2152
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 1: other groups like that, UM that have, you know, relatively

2153
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 1: despired what we're talking about. But I just think the

2154
01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:28,120
Speaker 1: value system that you've that you have championed, that you've

2155
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:31,760
Speaker 1: talked about on on all the mediator platforms is a

2156
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:36,080
Speaker 1: super important touchstone for something like this UM to to

2157
01:59:36,280 --> 01:59:40,120
Speaker 1: really give people this idea that we're all thinking about

2158
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:42,120
Speaker 1: the damn same here. We've got a lot of people

2159
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:44,400
Speaker 1: that are we're all we're all lined up. We need

2160
01:59:44,520 --> 01:59:46,760
Speaker 1: just somebody to tell us that we exist, you know,

2161
01:59:47,160 --> 01:59:50,320
Speaker 1: And so I really want to do something. We'll do something.

2162
01:59:50,440 --> 01:59:52,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but we're, as I

2163
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:53,880
Speaker 1: told you when we were talking about this forum, like

2164
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:56,560
Speaker 1: god damn if we are. You know, if anybody's lined

2165
01:59:56,600 --> 01:59:59,360
Speaker 1: up to do this, it's us. If anybody can pull

2166
01:59:59,480 --> 02:00:03,360
Speaker 1: something like us off and marshal the resources necessary to

2167
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:06,640
Speaker 1: do it, it's us. So why the hell not us?

2168
02:00:06,760 --> 02:00:10,320
Speaker 1: It's our turn? I guess that. You you know, it

2169
02:00:10,920 --> 02:00:13,800
Speaker 1: fits a lot of things, UM. And timing is everything.

2170
02:00:13,880 --> 02:00:16,680
Speaker 1: You know, Timing is really important and and and that

2171
02:00:17,120 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 1: opportunity really does exist now you know, it's so interesting.

2172
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:22,320
Speaker 1: It's like going back to the back forty idea that

2173
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:25,520
Speaker 1: you were talking about this on this you know, ten

2174
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:29,680
Speaker 1: thousand foot level and you get down to this is

2175
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:32,280
Speaker 1: what I really saw on that episode or the way

2176
02:00:32,320 --> 02:00:33,960
Speaker 1: I felt, and I felt it was proud of this

2177
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:37,320
Speaker 1: that we were talked about ten thousand, five five thousand,

2178
02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:40,760
Speaker 1: ten thousand, big, big ideas and then we're down there

2179
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:44,760
Speaker 1: planting fricking trees and spreading fertilizer with five gallon buckets

2180
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:49,760
Speaker 1: by hand. Kenyon, I can't believe he doesn't have a

2181
02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 1: decent fertilizer spreader. But that's kind of it. It's a

2182
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:55,640
Speaker 1: big old world, right, I mean there's all of that,

2183
02:00:55,800 --> 02:00:57,560
Speaker 1: and then you were drilling it down to those very

2184
02:00:57,640 --> 02:01:01,520
Speaker 1: specific skills and ideas and things, you know, that seed

2185
02:01:01,680 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 1: when we were talking about seed and that sort of

2186
02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:07,440
Speaker 1: stuff and that kind of level of understanding. I think

2187
02:01:07,440 --> 02:01:14,720
Speaker 1: it's really important for people to develop. Uh yeah, so yeah,

2188
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:17,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of it as well. Then, yeah,

2189
02:01:17,360 --> 02:01:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean that micro macro sensibility to understand. I love

2190
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:23,080
Speaker 1: working on them. I loved we it was that when

2191
02:01:23,120 --> 02:01:25,080
Speaker 1: we were out there planting those trees. I didn't I

2192
02:01:25,160 --> 02:01:28,280
Speaker 1: stood in the background, said like, she really didn't plant

2193
02:01:28,360 --> 02:01:30,480
Speaker 1: any tree. Well, I was gonna help. You said you

2194
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:32,680
Speaker 1: were going to help, and then I was like, I

2195
02:01:32,760 --> 02:01:36,680
Speaker 1: gotta I'm directing this episode, so I'm sting over in

2196
02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:40,160
Speaker 1: the truck here in the air conditioning. Don't do anything.

2197
02:01:41,360 --> 02:01:44,720
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's so not true. You guys were You

2198
02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:48,440
Speaker 1: and Samantha were just so uh. It's just a joy

2199
02:01:48,520 --> 02:01:50,680
Speaker 1: to work with you, guys. I love you, know, I love.

2200
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:53,320
Speaker 1: I was telling somebody the other day, somebody was asking me, Hey,

2201
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:54,800
Speaker 1: what do you know, what are you going to be

2202
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:58,400
Speaker 1: doing in the future. I said, I love. I don't

2203
02:01:58,440 --> 02:02:00,960
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily hate being camera, but I certainly do

2204
02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:04,040
Speaker 1: love being in the background and watching those things unfold

2205
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:07,880
Speaker 1: and shaping those narratives and understanding that there's a story

2206
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:10,160
Speaker 1: to tell here and and somebody's gotta keep track of that.

2207
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:15,160
Speaker 1: That thing sending sending people to uh go back into

2208
02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:19,000
Speaker 1: Durance Instagram, pull up that hippie tree planner picture, and

2209
02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:26,280
Speaker 1: that's I was really pleasantly surprised by that. I'm glad,

2210
02:02:26,440 --> 02:02:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah we found that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's

2211
02:02:31,240 --> 02:02:35,080
Speaker 1: everything man, hunting, hunting is that. I was just I'll

2212
02:02:35,120 --> 02:02:37,560
Speaker 1: tell you. I was just writing I think I don't

2213
02:02:37,600 --> 02:02:40,880
Speaker 1: think this will spoil the end of the back forty.

2214
02:02:41,320 --> 02:02:43,840
Speaker 1: We're about a third of the way through. But it

2215
02:02:44,000 --> 02:02:46,839
Speaker 1: was just kind of thinking about with Mark and writing

2216
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:49,320
Speaker 1: the ending for this season, which is going to be

2217
02:02:49,400 --> 02:02:52,560
Speaker 1: the end of of the show in its current form

2218
02:02:52,640 --> 02:02:55,600
Speaker 1: at least, and we were thinking, like, what do we say?

2219
02:02:56,240 --> 02:02:58,120
Speaker 1: You know, what the hell do we say? We've said

2220
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:00,600
Speaker 1: it all, We've quoted Leopold, we had here, we have

2221
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:02,840
Speaker 1: all these guys, ask Stephen now they all set all

2222
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:05,680
Speaker 1: this smart ship. What do we say here? Because there's

2223
02:03:05,800 --> 02:03:09,360
Speaker 1: nothing left maybe to say. And I was just like, man,

2224
02:03:09,440 --> 02:03:13,400
Speaker 1: you know what, at some level, we don't need to

2225
02:03:13,440 --> 02:03:20,360
Speaker 1: say anything hunt. What is hunting is working, learning, crafting

2226
02:03:20,520 --> 02:03:25,600
Speaker 1: something you know, understanding the failures and successes, and then

2227
02:03:25,720 --> 02:03:28,640
Speaker 1: passing it on and then giving it to someone else.

2228
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:32,560
Speaker 1: That's what hunting is. That's what land management is, you know,

2229
02:03:32,720 --> 02:03:34,920
Speaker 1: much like the T shirt that you have there, I mean,

2230
02:03:34,960 --> 02:03:37,680
Speaker 1: this is like, this is what we're taking part in,

2231
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:42,560
Speaker 1: this grand macro scheme of learning from a small place

2232
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:46,120
Speaker 1: and teaching other people so they can carry it on

2233
02:03:46,240 --> 02:03:48,760
Speaker 1: to wherever they go next. And that's that was a

2234
02:03:48,840 --> 02:03:50,800
Speaker 1: cool thing that we you know, could end on that

2235
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:53,800
Speaker 1: note that is very cool. Yeah, you know it's it's

2236
02:03:54,000 --> 02:03:57,800
Speaker 1: um lessons, right, lessons learned from that sort of thing.

2237
02:03:57,840 --> 02:04:01,160
Speaker 1: And and I guess that you know, my those I

2238
02:04:01,280 --> 02:04:04,600
Speaker 1: like mottos. I like, it's not ours, it's just our turn.

2239
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:09,320
Speaker 1: I like plant trees, grow memories. Um maybe I think

2240
02:04:09,360 --> 02:04:12,560
Speaker 1: in bumper stickers or something. But your truck has a

2241
02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:17,480
Speaker 1: your has got a lot of bumper stickers. Yeah. And uh,

2242
02:04:17,760 --> 02:04:20,960
Speaker 1: you know wood is good. That's that's that's one from

2243
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:26,680
Speaker 1: the but that's from the tree farm people, you know. Um,

2244
02:04:28,240 --> 02:04:32,680
Speaker 1: so you have those big ideas, those those philosophies. It's

2245
02:04:32,840 --> 02:04:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really and and the big one

2246
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:36,960
Speaker 1: really is passing it on. It's not ours, it's just

2247
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:42,920
Speaker 1: our turn. M It's really interesting Ben, being a landowner.

2248
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:46,600
Speaker 1: You know, my, it's my My folks have lived to

2249
02:04:46,640 --> 02:04:50,160
Speaker 1: be quite old, Um, both of them in their nineties

2250
02:04:50,240 --> 02:04:55,160
Speaker 1: and we're uh with us mentally and everything the whole time.

2251
02:04:56,120 --> 02:04:58,880
Speaker 1: And uh and that they just died recently, you know.

2252
02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:02,680
Speaker 1: So here I am really in my early sixties and

2253
02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:05,360
Speaker 1: we're trying to you know, we're moving that forward in

2254
02:05:05,440 --> 02:05:10,400
Speaker 1: the next generation. Um. And I'm so, I'm already, you know,

2255
02:05:10,520 --> 02:05:12,520
Speaker 1: getting to do that. My nephews are coming to hunt

2256
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:14,640
Speaker 1: with us. My one nephew wants to bring some of

2257
02:05:14,720 --> 02:05:17,360
Speaker 1: his buddies down. I'm like, and you know, the first

2258
02:05:17,400 --> 02:05:19,360
Speaker 1: thing he said was and they all want to help

2259
02:05:19,400 --> 02:05:22,560
Speaker 1: out on the farm. You know, It's like I don't

2260
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:25,680
Speaker 1: have to say, well, yeah they can, but I mean

2261
02:05:25,720 --> 02:05:29,960
Speaker 1: they know it right that there's an expectation of it.

2262
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:33,440
Speaker 1: Not only is there an expectation, they're recognizing the value

2263
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:38,360
Speaker 1: and the opportunity they're giving. That's that right there. But

2264
02:05:38,440 --> 02:05:41,560
Speaker 1: you just said it's like something that that's Those are

2265
02:05:41,600 --> 02:05:45,360
Speaker 1: the things that last within our community of people. You know,

2266
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:48,640
Speaker 1: this this idea of value that they're They're not just like, hey,

2267
02:05:48,760 --> 02:05:50,120
Speaker 1: we come down, you mind if I come down and

2268
02:05:50,160 --> 02:05:52,080
Speaker 1: shoot a deer. They're like, hey, I'm gonna come down.

2269
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:53,600
Speaker 1: You mind if I come down and shoot a deer

2270
02:05:53,640 --> 02:05:57,240
Speaker 1: after I work? Like that small addendum to that sentence

2271
02:05:58,320 --> 02:06:03,040
Speaker 1: can mean everything. You know, ly interesting to me. Also,

2272
02:06:04,280 --> 02:06:06,120
Speaker 1: you know about the issue that we have here in

2273
02:06:06,200 --> 02:06:09,560
Speaker 1: southwest Wisconsin, chronic wasting disease, and I am an advocate

2274
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 1: of herd control and we shoot a lot of deer

2275
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:15,840
Speaker 1: on our farm, will shot if I have my druthers,

2276
02:06:15,920 --> 02:06:20,080
Speaker 1: will probably take thirty five deer this year, maybe more. Um,

2277
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:23,960
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll have the opportunity. And we have some liberal

2278
02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:27,320
Speaker 1: hunting seasons, not really with guns so much. We have

2279
02:06:27,520 --> 02:06:30,880
Speaker 1: nine days of buck hunting and and do hunting with gun,

2280
02:06:31,320 --> 02:06:33,560
Speaker 1: and then there's a four day antler lists only and

2281
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:37,160
Speaker 1: then a holiday hunt with gun. But but we're still

2282
02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:41,640
Speaker 1: bow hunting until the end of January here. So a

2283
02:06:41,760 --> 02:06:45,080
Speaker 1: few years, we've got this population, we've got this disease problem,

2284
02:06:45,120 --> 02:06:48,440
Speaker 1: which also was just driven by population, right, and so

2285
02:06:49,040 --> 02:06:54,120
Speaker 1: when I started getting serious about population control as chronic

2286
02:06:54,160 --> 02:06:56,800
Speaker 1: wasting disease to get closer and closer. And we've been

2287
02:06:56,880 --> 02:06:59,600
Speaker 1: after population control for other reasons for a while, oak

2288
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:05,040
Speaker 1: regeneral ration, balancing with the ecosystem, all of that important stuff.

2289
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:09,440
Speaker 1: But really, um, you go out there as a hunter

2290
02:07:09,600 --> 02:07:13,040
Speaker 1: and landowner and uh, and I was like four years

2291
02:07:13,080 --> 02:07:17,160
Speaker 1: ago I shot seven deer. I mean I literally was

2292
02:07:17,840 --> 02:07:22,320
Speaker 1: shooting deer because deer needed to be shot, as opposed

2293
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:27,440
Speaker 1: to I'm going hunting deer and I'm going to take

2294
02:07:27,480 --> 02:07:31,200
Speaker 1: a deer on a hunt, a still hunter whatever that

2295
02:07:31,280 --> 02:07:34,200
Speaker 1: happens to be I was putting myself in a place

2296
02:07:34,240 --> 02:07:36,040
Speaker 1: where I am going to shoot every deer that walks

2297
02:07:36,120 --> 02:07:39,400
Speaker 1: by here, and I don't want to be a deer exterminator.

2298
02:07:39,880 --> 02:07:42,880
Speaker 1: So from a motivation from my standpoint is so why

2299
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:47,840
Speaker 1: not share that opportunity that experience. Why not have six

2300
02:07:47,960 --> 02:07:50,920
Speaker 1: other people come in and do that and take one

2301
02:07:51,920 --> 02:07:56,080
Speaker 1: and so you know, on a real basic level, that's

2302
02:07:56,120 --> 02:07:58,680
Speaker 1: a contribution some of these folks are making. The conservation

2303
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:01,280
Speaker 1: is coming in and willing to Yeah, I'll shoot a

2304
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:04,720
Speaker 1: dough well for them, that's that may be the best

2305
02:08:05,160 --> 02:08:07,480
Speaker 1: day of their year. And that a thing you might

2306
02:08:07,520 --> 02:08:09,880
Speaker 1: have done by just boom boom boom up cleaning up

2307
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:13,000
Speaker 1: the cleaning up the extras here, that might be something

2308
02:08:13,080 --> 02:08:15,840
Speaker 1: that they cherish forever because that's their first year, that's

2309
02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:19,920
Speaker 1: their kids first year, or you know how how better

2310
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:22,800
Speaker 1: to kind of pass something on that has meaning than

2311
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:25,320
Speaker 1: to say, Hey, this thing that I would be my

2312
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:27,080
Speaker 1: seventeenth to the year of the season, so I can

2313
02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:30,000
Speaker 1: thin the herd out here. This could be your first ever.

2314
02:08:31,920 --> 02:08:34,640
Speaker 1: And they're going through that when they're processing that animal

2315
02:08:34,720 --> 02:08:36,520
Speaker 1: and they're going through the process of having it. We

2316
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:38,880
Speaker 1: require testing of all of our dear of getting it

2317
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:42,640
Speaker 1: tested and what that means, and what why they're doing

2318
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:46,120
Speaker 1: Why I need why from from my perspective, from not

2319
02:08:46,200 --> 02:08:49,960
Speaker 1: only from the landowner, but from a conservationist in this area. Um,

2320
02:08:50,840 --> 02:08:53,280
Speaker 1: Why I need you to why we need to remove

2321
02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:57,440
Speaker 1: those dear? Um? It could soon be an excellent hunting experience,

2322
02:08:57,520 --> 02:09:00,280
Speaker 1: and you know and all of that. But man, you

2323
02:09:00,360 --> 02:09:02,600
Speaker 1: know I go shoot seven during a day and you've

2324
02:09:02,600 --> 02:09:04,960
Speaker 1: got a gut seven on the mountain, throw them in

2325
02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:06,560
Speaker 1: at all of them and do all of that. Why

2326
02:09:06,640 --> 02:09:09,520
Speaker 1: not somebody let somebody else have that that experience and

2327
02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:13,960
Speaker 1: that joy, um, and that that heartache and everything that

2328
02:09:14,080 --> 02:09:17,160
Speaker 1: goes along with with hunting. The same thing as work

2329
02:09:17,200 --> 02:09:19,120
Speaker 1: in your property. If you gotta you know, thin out

2330
02:09:19,200 --> 02:09:21,840
Speaker 1: some pines, and you you understand why you're doing that,

2331
02:09:21,920 --> 02:09:24,920
Speaker 1: you don't need to learn that. But if somebody's along

2332
02:09:24,960 --> 02:09:27,080
Speaker 1: and they're they're learning how to run a chainsaw, then

2333
02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:29,600
Speaker 1: learn around a pulse saw, they're learning about how to

2334
02:09:29,960 --> 02:09:32,240
Speaker 1: thin pine trees out and why that manister habits at

2335
02:09:32,320 --> 02:09:34,960
Speaker 1: and what you're going to use the the limbs for

2336
02:09:35,160 --> 02:09:37,360
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I mean, that could mean something

2337
02:09:37,440 --> 02:09:39,520
Speaker 1: to something that for you just be another day on

2338
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:42,800
Speaker 1: the farm, you know. Um, So that's that's why I

2339
02:09:42,880 --> 02:09:46,080
Speaker 1: think it's just there's just like this, there's a real

2340
02:09:46,280 --> 02:09:51,040
Speaker 1: foundational element to this shared idea of access and work.

2341
02:09:52,280 --> 02:09:55,440
Speaker 1: That's it's just it's a fucking American Doug Like. It's

2342
02:09:55,480 --> 02:09:58,240
Speaker 1: just it really is, man, And I love these ideas

2343
02:09:58,320 --> 02:10:03,240
Speaker 1: that you know kind of can be can help signify

2344
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:08,840
Speaker 1: what are hunting farming culture really is here? You know,

2345
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:10,720
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be a part of this

2346
02:10:10,920 --> 02:10:14,680
Speaker 1: shared idea well? And the idea that we can continue

2347
02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:16,880
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that we've been featuring that you've

2348
02:10:16,920 --> 02:10:19,560
Speaker 1: been featuring on the back party and the conservation and

2349
02:10:19,640 --> 02:10:22,920
Speaker 1: stuff and and you know, here's why we're doing these

2350
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:27,720
Speaker 1: particular things on the property. Um, I see that opportunity

2351
02:10:27,840 --> 02:10:30,280
Speaker 1: for content as well that you know that I hope

2352
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:33,400
Speaker 1: that we can figure something out and all of this. Yeah,

2353
02:10:33,640 --> 02:10:36,800
Speaker 1: we're going to figure something out. I'm I'm gonna it's

2354
02:10:37,520 --> 02:10:40,640
Speaker 1: time to be figuring things out. I got plenty of time.

2355
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:49,520
Speaker 1: I got plenty of time here. You know. That's uh.

2356
02:10:49,720 --> 02:10:51,680
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about it, and the way

2357
02:10:51,760 --> 02:10:55,200
Speaker 1: I thought about it was it's a chance to be inspired.

2358
02:10:55,520 --> 02:10:59,560
Speaker 1: It's a chance to not take things for granted. It's

2359
02:10:59,560 --> 02:11:02,600
Speaker 1: a chance to to really move forward rather than sit

2360
02:11:02,680 --> 02:11:06,280
Speaker 1: around and watch Netflix and woe is me. So yeah,

2361
02:11:06,960 --> 02:11:10,560
Speaker 1: you're listening to any music, you know. I haven't like

2362
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:15,120
Speaker 1: Jammed Avin here, although I should. Um, you and I

2363
02:11:15,280 --> 02:11:17,560
Speaker 1: connect on some Ray Wiley Hubbard. Now if no, if

2364
02:11:17,600 --> 02:11:19,560
Speaker 1: people out there don't know Ray Wiley Huard, get your

2365
02:11:19,560 --> 02:11:22,960
Speaker 1: ship together. They need to spend an evening, get a

2366
02:11:23,000 --> 02:11:25,880
Speaker 1: little whiskey. We'll probably little Texas whiskey. You would be

2367
02:11:25,960 --> 02:11:30,680
Speaker 1: helpful and just sit and listen to Ray Wiley Hubbard.

2368
02:11:31,360 --> 02:11:33,520
Speaker 1: You know there's I think you just live the whole

2369
02:11:33,600 --> 02:11:36,120
Speaker 1: anthology would be. It would be nice to start with.

2370
02:11:37,400 --> 02:11:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a bad one. I agreed. You know,

2371
02:11:40,360 --> 02:11:42,840
Speaker 1: I was just out working out on the farm when

2372
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 1: we were cutting pine boughts. Um, and I have my

2373
02:11:46,160 --> 02:11:50,640
Speaker 1: my buddy Keefer, who who Steve knows and loves UM.

2374
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:53,840
Speaker 1: I refer to Keefer as the big Man, sort of

2375
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:58,960
Speaker 1: like Springsteen referred to Clarence Clemen. Says the big Man. Yeah,

2376
02:11:59,000 --> 02:12:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I mean, keepers a big dude, and

2377
02:12:02,200 --> 02:12:05,920
Speaker 1: he's a big dude to me. And you know I'm

2378
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:09,160
Speaker 1: not exactly a little fella. So you can imagine how

2379
02:12:09,240 --> 02:12:11,000
Speaker 1: big he is. But he and I were out there

2380
02:12:11,080 --> 02:12:15,800
Speaker 1: and uh uh in my new uh can Am by

2381
02:12:15,840 --> 02:12:20,000
Speaker 1: the way um and working on this stuff. And because

2382
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:22,560
Speaker 1: we're just quietly working, we're able to talk and listen

2383
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:26,800
Speaker 1: to music and and Big Kieth got an education on

2384
02:12:26,960 --> 02:12:32,160
Speaker 1: Ray Wiley today, everything from uh from Sneake Farm to

2385
02:12:32,560 --> 02:12:37,440
Speaker 1: uh Conversation with the Devil and Mother's Blues, where First

2386
02:12:37,480 --> 02:12:39,560
Speaker 1: Place says one of my favorite things in the world.

2387
02:12:39,640 --> 02:12:43,280
Speaker 1: The days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations,

2388
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:49,240
Speaker 1: I have really good day. I'll tell you. Another one

2389
02:12:49,360 --> 02:12:52,280
Speaker 1: my dad introduced me to later on was Delbraah McClinton.

2390
02:12:52,520 --> 02:12:55,320
Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, what did he say? It ain't how

2391
02:12:55,400 --> 02:13:00,520
Speaker 1: you eat, but how you chewing the wisdom, the wisdom

2392
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:05,160
Speaker 1: of Americana music. I think that's the point of Americano music,

2393
02:13:05,280 --> 02:13:09,560
Speaker 1: just just wisdom and poetry form. Oh and it's so cool,

2394
02:13:10,120 --> 02:13:14,720
Speaker 1: uh being you know. We had that long evening listening

2395
02:13:14,760 --> 02:13:19,320
Speaker 1: to the jukebox at the Applebee's, and it prompted me

2396
02:13:19,520 --> 02:13:24,160
Speaker 1: to now put together on Spotify a back forty playlist.

2397
02:13:24,360 --> 02:13:27,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, I'd never really ran with that as

2398
02:13:27,360 --> 02:13:30,560
Speaker 1: far as I meant to. Uh, well, we got to,

2399
02:13:32,960 --> 02:13:35,120
Speaker 1: but some of those songs that we reference, you know,

2400
02:13:35,200 --> 02:13:37,440
Speaker 1: that we talked about and that we were listening to then.

2401
02:13:38,120 --> 02:13:39,560
Speaker 1: Um and a lot of you know, I mean most

2402
02:13:39,600 --> 02:13:43,120
Speaker 1: of them have meetings of some sort. And yeah, I

2403
02:13:43,200 --> 02:13:45,600
Speaker 1: think American of music is you know a great example

2404
02:13:45,680 --> 02:13:50,280
Speaker 1: of a great songwriter's of of you know yesterday and today,

2405
02:13:50,360 --> 02:13:52,480
Speaker 1: you know, guy Clark Towns van Zan or a couple

2406
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:56,880
Speaker 1: of my favorite John Pryne of course, um and the

2407
02:13:57,000 --> 02:14:00,560
Speaker 1: wit and wisdom of that stuff, and you know, and

2408
02:14:00,760 --> 02:14:04,240
Speaker 1: and more modern. You know. The guy that I just

2409
02:14:04,600 --> 02:14:09,640
Speaker 1: I love is Todd Snyder and you know he's Carl

2410
02:14:09,760 --> 02:14:12,000
Speaker 1: and listen to he's Carl a lot and on his

2411
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:14,840
Speaker 1: sideman this guy named Travis Lynnville. If you haven't checked

2412
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:19,040
Speaker 1: out Travis, Linda Bill will do that. Um, just you know,

2413
02:14:19,200 --> 02:14:22,160
Speaker 1: just meaningful, full lyrics. A guy that I'm just starting

2414
02:14:22,160 --> 02:14:23,840
Speaker 1: to listen to a little bit more now is a

2415
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:27,400
Speaker 1: fellow named Pony Branchaw, and I know him. I feel

2416
02:14:27,480 --> 02:14:29,760
Speaker 1: like I'm plugging people all of a sudden. Pony Bratshaw

2417
02:14:29,880 --> 02:14:33,400
Speaker 1: is awesome dude. And actually there's another guy named Taylor

2418
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:38,080
Speaker 1: McCall who was on the Mediator podcast and we're using

2419
02:14:38,160 --> 02:14:41,920
Speaker 1: his music the soundtrack Back forty. Actually people were asking

2420
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:45,360
Speaker 1: about that last song down to the River or whatever

2421
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:47,520
Speaker 1: it was that. I mean, the lyrics when we were

2422
02:14:48,040 --> 02:14:53,080
Speaker 1: food plot planting, planting them foods. Yeah, I mean, Um,

2423
02:14:53,880 --> 02:14:56,400
Speaker 1: that wasn't him, that wasn't Just like we get I

2424
02:14:56,440 --> 02:14:58,440
Speaker 1: get tired of us using stock music and I wish

2425
02:14:58,480 --> 02:15:03,560
Speaker 1: we could afford like Ray Willy tracks the background music.

2426
02:15:04,000 --> 02:15:08,320
Speaker 1: But this this kid, Taylor McCall, who's not yet very

2427
02:15:08,360 --> 02:15:12,040
Speaker 1: well known. He uh, he's got some He's not exactly

2428
02:15:12,120 --> 02:15:15,560
Speaker 1: Mary Conni's somewhere in the middle, but he uh, he's

2429
02:15:15,560 --> 02:15:17,160
Speaker 1: got some good tunes. So we're gonna use him for

2430
02:15:17,160 --> 02:15:21,320
Speaker 1: the last three episodes of Back forty and really grew

2431
02:15:21,440 --> 02:15:24,280
Speaker 1: at with him while we're watching Mark Try to Kill Deer. Yeah,

2432
02:15:24,760 --> 02:15:30,200
Speaker 1: well we screaming guitar and just great songs. My buddy

2433
02:15:30,320 --> 02:15:33,080
Speaker 1: Eric Testmer, he's in Austin, he lives and he's from here,

2434
02:15:33,120 --> 02:15:36,120
Speaker 1: but he lives in Austin now has for twenty years. Um,

2435
02:15:36,840 --> 02:15:39,920
Speaker 1: there's a Yeah, you want to listen to the guitar music.

2436
02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:43,720
Speaker 1: You'll hear a little bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan, You'll

2437
02:15:43,720 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 1: hear a little bit of Jimmy Hendrix, you'll hear Eric Clapton,

2438
02:15:46,200 --> 02:15:50,200
Speaker 1: and you will hear Eric Testman. That's right, just super

2439
02:15:50,240 --> 02:15:54,000
Speaker 1: cool stuff. You know, It's just it's a music is

2440
02:15:54,080 --> 02:15:56,280
Speaker 1: just such a joy on so many levels. You know.

2441
02:15:57,120 --> 02:15:58,400
Speaker 1: That's to get into it. Yeah, there's a guy. I

2442
02:15:58,440 --> 02:15:59,640
Speaker 1: don't know if I told you about, a guy named

2443
02:15:59,680 --> 02:16:04,000
Speaker 1: Jeffrey folk Cult who's kind of like a twangy country

2444
02:16:04,120 --> 02:16:08,000
Speaker 1: Americana guy. Man. He not a lot of people know

2445
02:16:08,080 --> 02:16:11,160
Speaker 1: about him. A boy, they all too. Um. I was

2446
02:16:11,200 --> 02:16:14,240
Speaker 1: actually listening to him this morning while I was walking

2447
02:16:14,280 --> 02:16:17,960
Speaker 1: around this room thinking about thinking about the four Walls,

2448
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:20,760
Speaker 1: and you know, I'll tell you we were like we

2449
02:16:20,920 --> 02:16:23,680
Speaker 1: were talking about I was like, I was, I was

2450
02:16:23,720 --> 02:16:25,560
Speaker 1: sitting here thinking, I was sitting here think about you

2451
02:16:25,600 --> 02:16:27,200
Speaker 1: the other day because my wife came in the first

2452
02:16:27,280 --> 02:16:33,480
Speaker 1: day of my imprisonment. Yeah, and I was like, you

2453
02:16:33,560 --> 02:16:37,120
Speaker 1: know what Doug would say, Um, she said, how's your

2454
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:40,040
Speaker 1: vacation going? And I said, well, there's a fine line

2455
02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:45,200
Speaker 1: between prison and vacation. Oh there's a song lyric. I

2456
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:48,280
Speaker 1: don't tell Doug about that, but yeah, I mean we

2457
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:51,560
Speaker 1: last week, like I was telling you about our I

2458
02:16:51,600 --> 02:16:53,880
Speaker 1: think I was telling you about our getting trapped in

2459
02:16:53,920 --> 02:16:57,440
Speaker 1: a blizzard in Montana there before I got before I

2460
02:16:57,520 --> 02:17:00,560
Speaker 1: got to COVID. And we told everybody last week on

2461
02:17:00,640 --> 02:17:03,920
Speaker 1: the show about Joe lean the gas station queen, who

2462
02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:08,600
Speaker 1: I met in Roy, Montana. She's uh, she was a

2463
02:17:08,680 --> 02:17:11,640
Speaker 1: walking talking John John Priyan song. If I ever We

2464
02:17:11,760 --> 02:17:13,560
Speaker 1: were saying that when we were driving west, said man,

2465
02:17:13,640 --> 02:17:16,200
Speaker 1: if John Priyan was here, he'd have one of the

2466
02:17:16,240 --> 02:17:19,480
Speaker 1: best songs ever written about Joe Leaned the gas station Queen.

2467
02:17:20,680 --> 02:17:23,119
Speaker 1: And so maybe maybe if I, if I can get

2468
02:17:23,160 --> 02:17:24,680
Speaker 1: health and come out to the farm, maybe we'll sit

2469
02:17:24,720 --> 02:17:29,080
Speaker 1: down and write a little little tune on Joe leaue

2470
02:17:29,520 --> 02:17:33,400
Speaker 1: three chords in the Truth, and you know, uh, Yale

2471
02:17:33,480 --> 02:17:35,840
Speaker 1: Hubert's wisdom, He says, well, you know, you kind of

2472
02:17:35,920 --> 02:17:38,360
Speaker 1: get a progression down and then after that you just

2473
02:17:38,440 --> 02:17:46,120
Speaker 1: gotta make it rhyme. Oh it is three chords and

2474
02:17:46,959 --> 02:17:49,040
Speaker 1: three chords and how many octaves or whatever? It is?

2475
02:17:50,959 --> 02:17:52,680
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Doug, we got a lot of work

2476
02:17:52,720 --> 02:17:54,520
Speaker 1: ahead of us. We gotta make a game cooperative for

2477
02:17:54,560 --> 02:17:57,680
Speaker 1: the modern day. And they'll drink whiskey and sing songs.

2478
02:17:57,800 --> 02:18:01,560
Speaker 1: So a lot of ship to do, right, all right, Well,

2479
02:18:01,600 --> 02:18:03,720
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. This is a shame it's not

2480
02:18:03,879 --> 02:18:05,840
Speaker 1: the it's not the last time. It's a shame it

2481
02:18:05,959 --> 02:18:09,520
Speaker 1: was the first. So we will remedy that later later on.

2482
02:18:10,280 --> 02:18:12,920
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next time. Man, I'm really looking

2483
02:18:12,959 --> 02:18:16,160
Speaker 1: forward to it, all right, brother, see yeah, bye bye.

2484
02:18:24,600 --> 02:18:27,600
Speaker 1: That's it. That's all another episode in the books. Thanks

2485
02:18:27,640 --> 02:18:31,120
Speaker 1: to Doug during Thanks to all the nurses and doctors

2486
02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:34,840
Speaker 1: hey here in Bozeman helping out everybody with COVID years included.

2487
02:18:35,480 --> 02:18:38,960
Speaker 1: Thanks to the people who made my house and also

2488
02:18:39,080 --> 02:18:41,359
Speaker 1: put walls around this room so I could be protected

2489
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:45,280
Speaker 1: and uh, nobody can get my germs. And then thanks

2490
02:18:45,320 --> 02:18:47,600
Speaker 1: to Phil the engineer just for being there for all

2491
02:18:47,680 --> 02:18:51,840
Speaker 1: of us, especially Brandon who he's been playing video games

2492
02:18:51,959 --> 02:18:56,800
Speaker 1: with every single night. Ah. That brings me great joy.

2493
02:18:57,120 --> 02:19:00,440
Speaker 1: THHD brings people together. Then eventually can vinces in the

2494
02:19:00,520 --> 02:19:05,920
Speaker 1: joint of cults, the cult of diversity, inclusion and open mindedness.

2495
02:19:06,560 --> 02:19:09,600
Speaker 1: Uh we we that's TC. That's TC. Call for you.

2496
02:19:10,120 --> 02:19:11,920
Speaker 1: Um we have we haven't heard you know who we

2497
02:19:11,959 --> 02:19:17,800
Speaker 1: haven't heard from lately? Phil? Uh? Ryan cal Callahan. Nope,

2498
02:19:18,120 --> 02:19:22,400
Speaker 1: I guess again, Okay, somebody way cooler. Oh well it's

2499
02:19:22,400 --> 02:19:25,359
Speaker 1: gotta be Eric Hall then, damn right, Eric Hall okay,

2500
02:19:26,080 --> 02:19:28,640
Speaker 1: Eric Hall. Eric Hall sent us a voicemail, will play

2501
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:32,440
Speaker 1: it for you really quick and then we'll react. Man.

2502
02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:36,800
Speaker 1: Eric here, Yeah, listening. Jee's here and he was talking

2503
02:19:36,800 --> 02:19:41,200
Speaker 1: about even the show that you're on right now, not

2504
02:19:41,360 --> 02:19:46,720
Speaker 1: a perfect white male. How do we go about My

2505
02:19:47,120 --> 02:19:50,640
Speaker 1: my question to you is what is your opinion on

2506
02:19:50,840 --> 02:19:54,879
Speaker 1: how do we go about moving the needle and involving

2507
02:19:55,280 --> 02:20:02,160
Speaker 1: getting getting more Americans white? Um, but I even white women,

2508
02:20:02,879 --> 02:20:07,880
Speaker 1: black men, women, Uh, different demographics. How do we go

2509
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:13,680
Speaker 1: by getting them involved in hunting? Urban? Uh? Like he

2510
02:20:13,879 --> 02:20:16,360
Speaker 1: saw much a guy from the and said he's not

2511
02:20:16,440 --> 02:20:19,760
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing that. The African American, I'm not

2512
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:22,600
Speaker 1: supposed to be hunting. I'm not sure who totally they

2513
02:20:22,640 --> 02:20:25,120
Speaker 1: couldnt hunts. But I think it's I think the riddle

2514
02:20:25,160 --> 02:20:30,960
Speaker 1: of the barrier is it's the intimidation factor. We need

2515
02:20:31,040 --> 02:20:36,160
Speaker 1: some more programs maybe to get people involved. And you

2516
02:20:36,240 --> 02:20:38,760
Speaker 1: can't just take people hunting one time and expect them

2517
02:20:38,879 --> 02:20:41,240
Speaker 1: to go on hunting. It's got to be kind of

2518
02:20:41,280 --> 02:20:44,760
Speaker 1: a mentor ship. Anyway, My question is how do we

2519
02:20:44,879 --> 02:20:48,640
Speaker 1: go about moving the needle and getting more people on

2520
02:20:49,160 --> 02:20:54,640
Speaker 1: different demographics involved? So Phil Eric Hall is calling for

2521
02:20:55,200 --> 02:20:57,880
Speaker 1: is asking you and I to explain how we think

2522
02:20:58,040 --> 02:21:01,720
Speaker 1: we can take this particular program and the hunting community

2523
02:21:01,800 --> 02:21:06,920
Speaker 1: at all, uh to a more diverse place. Since we're

2524
02:21:07,560 --> 02:21:10,560
Speaker 1: ninety plus percent white dudes, most of them with beards,

2525
02:21:10,600 --> 02:21:14,280
Speaker 1: a lot of them now play video games. Um, we've

2526
02:21:14,320 --> 02:21:17,200
Speaker 1: talked about this before. Continue to talk about this, Phil,

2527
02:21:17,480 --> 02:21:19,400
Speaker 1: I'll let you answer Eric in the best way that

2528
02:21:19,400 --> 02:21:21,320
Speaker 1: you can. I have my own kind of why I

2529
02:21:21,400 --> 02:21:23,880
Speaker 1: want to approach this for the for the moment. No,

2530
02:21:24,040 --> 02:21:26,320
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still an outsider. I just like from

2531
02:21:26,320 --> 02:21:32,480
Speaker 1: an outside outsider's perspective, I think, just like uh, normalizing diversity. Um,

2532
02:21:33,600 --> 02:21:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, less raised eyebrows when a person of color

2533
02:21:37,600 --> 02:21:41,120
Speaker 1: or a woman or someone queer is is out hunting,

2534
02:21:41,200 --> 02:21:44,800
Speaker 1: you know, just being more and more more inviting warmer. Uh,

2535
02:21:45,240 --> 02:21:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, bring them into this. You've got a voice here,

2536
02:21:48,280 --> 02:21:50,760
Speaker 1: and it's nice to have people on the show and

2537
02:21:52,400 --> 02:21:55,240
Speaker 1: let them share share your voice for a little bit. Yeah,

2538
02:21:55,400 --> 02:21:58,200
Speaker 1: we're definitely gonna do that, man. And and I would

2539
02:21:58,200 --> 02:22:00,240
Speaker 1: think about a lot, like think about maybe I saw

2540
02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:04,680
Speaker 1: my own shortcomings being a little pig headed sometimes about things.

2541
02:22:05,280 --> 02:22:10,600
Speaker 1: Um Man, if if hunting itself was a place like

2542
02:22:10,720 --> 02:22:12,560
Speaker 1: it was, a town and we all lived in it,

2543
02:22:13,800 --> 02:22:15,720
Speaker 1: it would be a kind of a fucked up town.

2544
02:22:17,720 --> 02:22:19,840
Speaker 1: Let's just be honest, man, if we all, if there

2545
02:22:19,920 --> 02:22:22,000
Speaker 1: was like eleven million of us living in a town,

2546
02:22:23,400 --> 02:22:29,080
Speaker 1: it would be white dudes in that town. Early if

2547
02:22:29,120 --> 02:22:32,520
Speaker 1: the teacher, if we all, if we all ever moved

2548
02:22:32,640 --> 02:22:34,879
Speaker 1: to a commune for the cult that we've created here,

2549
02:22:35,879 --> 02:22:40,040
Speaker 1: we might all look around and be like, damn, son,

2550
02:22:40,640 --> 02:22:44,960
Speaker 1: we got problems. We're gonna have a problem procreating um

2551
02:22:45,240 --> 02:22:48,520
Speaker 1: among other things, and our culture is going to be

2552
02:22:48,720 --> 02:22:52,520
Speaker 1: stagnant and stale and full of the same old crap.

2553
02:22:53,520 --> 02:22:56,720
Speaker 1: And do is that a place that I want to be? Um?

2554
02:22:57,320 --> 02:22:59,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to be there, And it's not because

2555
02:22:59,520 --> 02:23:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm it's not because I have any other agenda other

2556
02:23:02,240 --> 02:23:04,600
Speaker 1: than the place that I want to be is going

2557
02:23:04,640 --> 02:23:08,640
Speaker 1: to be more richer for welcoming different kinds of people,

2558
02:23:09,240 --> 02:23:12,280
Speaker 1: no matter where they come from. And you know, we're

2559
02:23:12,320 --> 02:23:14,600
Speaker 1: in a position where where we are, where we are,

2560
02:23:15,000 --> 02:23:19,680
Speaker 1: we're at a very non undiverse place. It's not diverse

2561
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:22,920
Speaker 1: around these parts, and so we have to actively make

2562
02:23:23,000 --> 02:23:26,040
Speaker 1: it so. Um. And then once we do, we have

2563
02:23:26,160 --> 02:23:28,520
Speaker 1: to celebrate that. And then we have to you know,

2564
02:23:28,920 --> 02:23:32,240
Speaker 1: have a vision for where we want to be and so, um,

2565
02:23:32,480 --> 02:23:34,120
Speaker 1: that's what got me thinking. Man, I was thinking, like,

2566
02:23:34,200 --> 02:23:37,240
Speaker 1: what if if the hunting collective or the hunting community

2567
02:23:37,400 --> 02:23:42,120
Speaker 1: was like a place, it would really feel stale, it

2568
02:23:42,160 --> 02:23:44,280
Speaker 1: would feel like we've been doing this for a long time,

2569
02:23:44,320 --> 02:23:46,080
Speaker 1: and there's some different ways that we can make it better.

2570
02:23:46,760 --> 02:23:48,960
Speaker 1: So we're gonna do that. Um, We're I'm in the

2571
02:23:49,000 --> 02:23:51,720
Speaker 1: process now reaching out to some folks who I think

2572
02:23:51,720 --> 02:23:53,840
Speaker 1: can help us with that, or I think can talk

2573
02:23:53,959 --> 02:23:56,480
Speaker 1: us through what that future might look like. And and

2574
02:23:56,640 --> 02:23:59,160
Speaker 1: just on a real, on a real level, not on

2575
02:23:59,240 --> 02:24:02,640
Speaker 1: a level where I'm trying to, you know, make everyone

2576
02:24:02,840 --> 02:24:07,360
Speaker 1: feel like it's diverse or make everyone feel a certain way.

2577
02:24:07,440 --> 02:24:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to trick you. I'm not on MSNBC.

2578
02:24:10,440 --> 02:24:12,280
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to trick you into feeling a certain

2579
02:24:12,320 --> 02:24:17,400
Speaker 1: way about diversity. I honestly feel that our place, the

2580
02:24:17,480 --> 02:24:19,520
Speaker 1: place we are in now, will be made better with

2581
02:24:19,640 --> 02:24:22,560
Speaker 1: those people along for the ride, and we gotta do

2582
02:24:22,680 --> 02:24:26,680
Speaker 1: whatever we can to make that happen. Set aside your

2583
02:24:26,720 --> 02:24:30,720
Speaker 1: political bullshit and just do it because it's the right

2584
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:35,280
Speaker 1: thing to do. And um, I think the history will

2585
02:24:35,320 --> 02:24:38,560
Speaker 1: shine pretty pretty happily upon us for for making these efforts.

2586
02:24:38,560 --> 02:24:40,280
Speaker 1: So we're gonna line some things up where we can

2587
02:24:40,320 --> 02:24:42,840
Speaker 1: talk to some some females, we can talk to some

2588
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:46,760
Speaker 1: LGBTQ folks, we can talk to people that have a

2589
02:24:46,840 --> 02:24:49,760
Speaker 1: perspective on this and have thought it through and they

2590
02:24:49,800 --> 02:24:52,040
Speaker 1: can add to the conversation. And once we get him

2591
02:24:52,040 --> 02:24:53,440
Speaker 1: in the door, we're gonna keep do our best to

2592
02:24:53,480 --> 02:24:55,960
Speaker 1: keep him here and make him feel cool, make them

2593
02:24:56,000 --> 02:24:58,840
Speaker 1: feel welcome, make it feel like they should be here.

2594
02:24:59,160 --> 02:25:01,840
Speaker 1: So that's the end of my rant. So if you

2595
02:25:01,879 --> 02:25:03,960
Speaker 1: want to listen to that, keep listening to th HC.

2596
02:25:04,920 --> 02:25:10,400
Speaker 1: Say bye Phil, goodbye you too long, because I can't

2597
02:25:10,440 --> 02:25:18,800
Speaker 1: go a week without doing run oh without run, dragging

2598
02:25:18,840 --> 02:25:25,480
Speaker 1: out right drinking