1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and how the 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: tech are yet. So, once upon a time, we used 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: to have these things called programs. And I say that 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: because now we don't call programs programs anymore. We typically 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: call programs apps. I think that really started to become 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: a thing upon the ascent of the consumer smartphone, which 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: was sparked by Apple, which was then cranked up by Android, 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: and that we really had the era of the app. 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: At that point. We used to, like I said, call 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: them programs. Now they are applications, whether it's for a 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: phone or a computer. I guess app stores sounds better 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: than program emporium anyway. For thousands of entrepreneurs, the dream 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: is to build an app and to be come rich 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: beyond your wildest dreams. Right, You design an app and 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: then the money rolls in. Maybe it's because some bigger 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: fish out there, like some Google or Apple or Meta, 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: decides that you're just too good to be left unacquired, 20 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: and then they spend a bucket load of cash on you. 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: Hopefully ten times more than what you're actually worth. Or 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: maybe you actually figure out how to be profitable all 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: on your own, you actually have a business plan and 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: you have a way of generating revenue. You would be 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: the rare Silicon Valley project that actually works as a 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: business on its own. That again is the dream. But 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: dreams don't always come true, and sometimes even apps that 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: seem to be strapped to a rocket for success end 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: up blowing up and going up in flames. So this 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: episode is about apps that fall into that category, apps 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: that at one time seem like they were a sure thing, 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: only they flamed out down the line. One of the 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: apps I originally planned to put on this list was 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: four square, but as it turns out, that app and 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: the company behind it is still chugging along, just in 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: a slightly different role than it was before. See I 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: remember when four square launched and folks would use it 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: to check in to locations that they were visiting in 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: the real world. So some places would even start to 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: offer special discountsl right like twenty percent off your first 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: drink if you check into the bar via four square. 42 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Because it was seen as a kind of viral marketing. 43 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: Other folks worried about the privacy issues of this kind 44 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: of behavior. In fact, some folks created a website called 45 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: Please rob Me, and this site satirically would scrape data 46 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: off Twitter for four square check in notifications, so please 47 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: rob Me would then list people who were saying they 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: were not currently at home. Now, the whole point wasn't 49 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: to actually inspire a way of burglaries, but rather show 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: why it's dangerous to broadcast your location to the world 51 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: in general, and it might not be a good idea, 52 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: and maybe people should think harder about their personal privacy. 53 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, for Square actually changed dramatically. The company 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: launched a companion app called Swarm Now. This app contained 55 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: all the social networking features that for Square used to have, 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: so all the check in stuff, all the geolocation stuff 57 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: that was kind of seen as the critical element of 58 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: force Square and the one that you should be worried 59 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: about that went to Swarm. For Square meanwhile became four 60 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Square City Guide, which became a discovery and recommendation app, 61 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: and it would help you figure out places that maybe 62 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: you should visit based upon your past experiences. Right. It 63 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: would say, Okay, I see that you're in downtown New 64 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: York and because of the places that you used to 65 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: go to in your hometown, here are some places we 66 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: think you should probably check out because you'll really like them. 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: You didn't have to use both of the apps if 68 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: you didn't want to, but they did compliment one another, 69 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: so if you used Swarm, four Square would tap into 70 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: that check in data to help inform what recommendations it 71 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: should give you. Those apps are still available today. Like 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: I just thought that four Square had come and gone 73 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: because I haven't personally used it in a decade, But 74 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: the fact is it's still a thing. One really interesting 75 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: thing to me is that, forour Square's business largely involves 76 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: licensing its technology to other companies, which include Uber, Airbnb, Snapchat, 77 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,119 Speaker 1: and lots more. The check in feature that four Square 78 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: developed powers numerous other apps. So while our perception was 79 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: that four Square was a relic of the past, that's 80 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: just not true. That's totally my misconception there, and again 81 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: it's because I have really paid at digital four Square 82 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: in a decade. But it is interesting to me that, 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: you know, they found success in a different way than 84 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: what they set out to do. I still don't have 85 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 1: any real desire to read download either four square or Swarm. However, 86 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: on a related note, there is also the story of 87 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: yik yak. Now, this app actually did flame out, but 88 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: then it was resurrected again just a few years ago, 89 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: so for those of y'all who do not know the story, 90 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: a couple of guys launched an anonymous location based messaging 91 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: platform back in twenty thirteen, and the way it worked 92 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: was that you would open the app and you would 93 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: connect via putting in your phone number. This would end 94 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: up allowing you to post to the platform, but you 95 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: would only be able to read messages that had been 96 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: posted by people within a certain distance of your physical location, 97 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: such as within a five mile radius, and you could 98 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: post a message anonymously, and again, only people who are 99 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: in a five mile radius of your lowtion would be 100 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: able to read your message. So as you would travel around, 101 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: you would see new messages, while ones that were now 102 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: out of physical range would disappear from view. The focus 103 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: on geolocation, coupled with anonymity, made the app extremely popular 104 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: with school campuses, and yakyak largely catered to that audience. 105 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: This also meant there was a lot of abuse. There 106 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: was no accountability right there was no connection to a 107 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: specific person, so people could post to the platform and 108 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: they could bully other folks or worse. So there were 109 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: these stories popping up all around the United States about 110 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: how the app was bringing out the absolute worst in 111 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: people and endangering folks. Right Like, let's say that you 112 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: belonged to a minority population in a particular campus university 113 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: of Even if someone's not specifically calling you out, it 114 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: might be easy to figure out who people are talking about, 115 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: which could definitely hurt your mental health, or they could 116 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: even be calling for more extremes that could endanger your 117 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: physical health. So pressure built against the company, and eventually 118 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: yakyak cave to it. So in twenty fifteen, yakyk made 119 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: a massive change and required users to register a handle 120 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: with the site, So all messages now would be attributed 121 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: to a handle. They wouldn't be fully anonymous. Now, it 122 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: was still a handle, not your name, so it wasn't 123 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: exactly the same thing as signing your name to your 124 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: own words, but it was a lot closer than what 125 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: had come before. Hardcore users hated this change, and eventually 126 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: yak yak kind of backed off a bit and made 127 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: it an optional feature, but by then the user base 128 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: had been alienated and had dwindled, and in twenty seventeen, 129 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: the company announced that the app was shutting down due 130 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: to that dwindling user base. They actually did a sell 131 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: off Square, the company that is behind online payment systems. 132 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: They purchased essentially the IP but really more like they 133 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: purchased the engineering talent of Yaka and brought them on board. 134 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: And it was for reportedly like just a million dollars, 135 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: which is still a lot of money. Don't get me wrong. 136 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: A million dollars is a lot, but it's nothing compared 137 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: to what yik yak was valued at a few years earlier. 138 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: And so yik yak effectively stopped being a thing in 139 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and it stayed in the grave for four years. 140 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: But then in February twenty twenty one, a group of 141 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: new owners who remained mysterious and unnamed. Like everywhere I 142 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: look to find out who the heck owned yak yak 143 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty three, didn't have 144 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: information about that anyway, They purchased yik yak and announced 145 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: plans to relaunch, and sure enough, late in the summer 146 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, the app came back. Now two 147 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: years later, in twenty twenty three, another company called side 148 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: Chat scooped up yik yak. Now side chats. Shtick was 149 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: essentially the same as yik yak. Side Chat had an 150 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: anonymous posting platform that largely was targeting college campus side 151 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: Chat was not as popular as yak yak. A lot 152 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,599 Speaker 1: of yak yak users felt that side Chat's user interface 153 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: was inferior, and initially yakyak users were getting messages where 154 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: they were being urged to migrate to side chat and 155 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: they hated it. Eventually that would change, where yak yak 156 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: would remain a thing, but effectively transformed into side chat. 157 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: You know, its interface became more of side Chat's interface. 158 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: By the way, I based this all off of blog 159 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: posts and articles and message boards because I wasn't on 160 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: yik yak at the time, so I had no idea 161 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: what was going on. But while the initial yak yak 162 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: was popular with campuses, this new version specifically focused on 163 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: university students, like almost like exclusively. As opposed to it 164 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: being a community based thing or a regional base thing. 165 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: It was specifically a campus based thing, and occasionally it 166 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: sounds like it would even make mistakes and accidentally assign 167 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: someone to a university that was not the one they 168 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: actually went to, which could be really hairy, right because 169 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: if I were to join yik yak and it suggested 170 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: I was a student at Georgia Tech, that's fighting words 171 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: because I attended the University of Georgia. Now that probably 172 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: means nothing to most of you, but just know those 173 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: two schools have had a long standing rivalry that goes 174 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: between being you know, good natured ribbing and genuine, deep 175 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: seated loathing. So if you had one student misidentified as 176 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: going to the other school, that could be fighting words. 177 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: Now I should say that yaikyak currently is only back 178 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: for iOS users as I record this podcast. Now, the 179 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: relaunch did at one point include Android, and apparently it 180 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: was only active for a very short while before in 181 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: the spring of twenty twenty three, the company said that 182 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: they were shutting down Android support in order to focus 183 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: on building out features for the iOS version. Now, again, 184 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: I can't check this app out. I'm an Android user. 185 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: Plus I'm not a college student, so I have to 186 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: rely on articles and Reddit posts to read up on it. 187 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: And it sounds to me that in the past you 188 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: could register for yik yak just with your phone number, 189 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: but now since the side chat acquisition, you have to 190 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: supply a university email address to create an account university 191 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: or college email address, and if you don't have one 192 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: of those, you can't have an account, and that has 193 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: upset a lot of users because it meant that they're one. 194 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: If they're not in college, they can't be part of 195 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: this anymore. Though honestly, I don't see why you would 196 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: necessarily want to be, But then that's probably because I 197 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: feel a lot of empathy for the folks who were bullied, 198 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: but it also is a reason. One reason they don't 199 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: want to do it anymore is because their actual identity 200 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: would be associated with their account, maybe not directly, like 201 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: the actual posts would be anonymous, but the site would 202 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: know who you were because you would have an email 203 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: address tied to your identity to register for the site. Arguably, 204 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: you could say the same thing is true because for 205 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: the old version, because you had to supply a phone number, 206 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 1: so unless you're buying burner numbers just for yaekiyak, it 207 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: would be pretty easy to figure out who you were. 208 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: But it also means that if you're not a college student, 209 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: or you're not on faculty or staff, then you're completely 210 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: out of the loop. There's a lot of competition in 211 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: the anonymous message board space these days. Seems to me 212 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: that a lot of the companies behind these apps typically 213 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: will reach a level of success that brings more attention 214 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: to their activities and perhaps their flaws, let's say, and 215 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: then they feel pressure to change things in order to 216 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: make their apps less prone to abuse, because now people 217 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: are paying attention to them and calling them out. And 218 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: then subsequently, after making these changes, the apps decline in 219 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: popularity because it turns out the user base the stuff 220 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: that they really liked happened to be the same stuff 221 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: that also facilitated abuse. Not to say that users all 222 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: enjoyed and piling on folks and abusing people, but that 223 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: the same features that made it easy to abuse folks 224 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: were also the features that people just really liked. That 225 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: kind of seems to be the life cycle for these 226 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: kinds of applications. They launch, they go viral, they get 227 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: really big, folks notice that sometimes really awful people are 228 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: using that app to do really awful things. The app 229 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: then ends up making changes in an effort to not 230 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: be held accountable for these things, and then it alienates 231 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: the user base, both the good and the bad users. 232 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: It then declines in popularity, then it fades into memory, 233 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: your rentse and you repeat. Now, I can't say for 234 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: certain that's what's happening with Yak Yak. There are a 235 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: lot of users who say that it's not as good 236 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: as it used to be, that they don't see the appeal. 237 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: The fact that it doesn't it's not available for Android 238 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: users is a huge thing. It means that a large 239 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: amount of the population can't even access it. Maybe the 240 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: company will manage to relaunch for Android and regain some momentum, 241 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: or maybe it's on the path back toward obsolescence. Okay, 242 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: we've got more failed app to talk about. Before we 243 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: do that, let's stop for a moment and thank our sponsors. Okay, 244 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: we're back. So no list of failed apps would be 245 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: complete without Quibi. Holy cats. This was a massive whiff 246 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: with a whole lot of money and some really heavy 247 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: hitters in both the entertainment and tech industries at the wheel, 248 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: and it still crashed and burned. It was the brainchild 249 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: of Jeffrey Katzenberg, who had forged a legendary career in Hollywood. 250 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: You know, he became really well known at Disney and 251 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: then created dream Works, and Quibi was hoping to tap 252 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: into that same magic that Hollywood success and also the 253 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: same magic that TikTok boasts. That was the key was 254 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: can we make something inspired by the success of TikTok, 255 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: and that was namely short form content, And in the 256 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: case of Quibi, the short form would be videos that 257 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: would last ten minutes or less. However, unlike TikTok, Quibi 258 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: productions would have some serious money behind them. We're talking 259 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: about really high production values, stuff that you would see 260 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: that would be akin to a television or film studio. 261 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: And if TikTok can knock them dead with DIY shorts 262 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: created by just any Yahoo out there, surely an entertainment 263 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: app with serious Hollywood credentials could make a killing right now. 264 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: On the tech side, former HP CEO Meg Whitman was 265 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: on board, and Whitman and Katzenberg brainstormed the structure and 266 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: execution of Quibi. They also are argued a lot. Witman 267 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: would later essentially say that Katzenberg would undermine her decisions 268 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: and was micromanaging, and there seem to be a lot 269 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: of bad blood at the top levels at Quibi, which 270 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: was just one of many problems. But the company signed 271 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: on various actors, directors, writers, and associated people to create 272 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: content for the site. They poured approximately a billion dollars 273 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: to that effect. Some of the content created consisted of 274 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: standalone short videos right like it was just a one 275 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: and done ten minutes or less video, but some were 276 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: actually serialized. They were longer pieces and divided up into 277 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: ten minute long chapters. This, in turn was a really 278 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: tricky because, like, if you're gonna divide a movie into 279 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: ten minute long chapters, you need a way to entice 280 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: people to continue after a chapter is over, and in 281 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: my opinion, it becomes like a Dan Brown novel where 282 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: every chapter ends in a cliffhanger to try and incentivize 283 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: people to go to the next chapter. And personally, I 284 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: find that kind of narrative exhausting and not very satisfying. 285 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: I am not a Dan Brown fan, nothing against him, 286 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: I just it doesn't appeal to me to end every 287 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: few pages with another cliffhanger. Anyway, they also made a 288 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: really odd decision when it came to framing, because the 289 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: whole point of Quibi was that it was intended to 290 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: be consumed on smartphones, and as I'm sure you're aware, 291 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: we're used to watching television programs in landscape format, that is, 292 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: the picture is wider than it is tall, right, But 293 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: for phones, we often hold phones in portrait mode, where 294 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: it's taller than it is wide. Otherwise you have to 295 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: turn the dang phone on its side, and there's a 296 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: chance you'll end up watching a tiny video with huge 297 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: black bars above and below it. So one choice Quibi's 298 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: founders made is that all content should be viewable in 299 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: full screen, whether the user was holding their phone in 300 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: portrait or landscape mode, and that you could switch back 301 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: and forth. So you could hold it in portrait mode 302 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: and then say you know what, I want to see 303 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: this in wide screen, turn your phone landscape. It would switch, 304 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: and in both versions the image would completely fill the 305 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: screen of your phone. That's a big deal, even though 306 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: it might not sound like it, because if you're a 307 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: director or cinematographer, part of your job is making sure 308 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: all the important information for the viewer is available within 309 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: the frame. Obviously that's going to be different if the 310 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: finished product is to be viewed in portrait mode rather 311 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: than landscape you need to figure out how are you 312 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: going to frame the image so that it works in 313 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: both formats, or you might have to use things like 314 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: pan and scan or switching views to get the information across. Right, Like, 315 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: you might have a scene where you have two characters, 316 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: one far left and one far right on the screen. 317 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: They're talking to each other, and in landscape mode, that's fine, 318 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: you can see it, but you switch it to portrait 319 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: mode and now there's not enough room on the screen 320 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: to get both characters in frame. What do you do? 321 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: Do you have an empty frame where both characters are 322 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: off screen, one off screen left and one off screen right. 323 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: Do you just focus on one character and then you 324 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: switch whenever the dialogue changes so that you get a 325 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: different view when character one speaks versus character two? Do 326 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: you pan back and forth? Which is that swimmy effect 327 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: you often get if you watch like old old home video, 328 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: not home video, but you know videos that were made 329 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: for home video use. You will often get that scanning feature. 330 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: Because televisions were in the old four to three aspect 331 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: ratio and they couldn't incorporate a wide screen picture unless 332 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: they did the bars at the top or bottom or both, 333 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: and a lot of people hated those. They wanted to 334 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: have the image take up the whole screen, So you 335 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: end up having this digital panning, which I absolutely detested. Well, 336 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: you have to make those decisions, or do you end 337 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: up blocking all of your shots so that all the 338 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: relevant information can be seen in one view, even if 339 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: it's portrait, in which case you might just have a 340 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: lot of unused space, like negative space in the frame 341 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: if you're watching it widescreen, or maybe you shoot with 342 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: multiple cameras so that way, one camera is taking the 343 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: landscape version of the shot, one camera's taking the portrait 344 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: version of the shot. Like, there's a lot of complex 345 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: things you have to think of behind the scenes from 346 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: a content creator standpoint, beyond just the technology of if 347 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: you turn your phone, you want the frame to be 348 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: completely full. So this was a real issue that goes 349 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: a technical challenge, and they did not have enough time 350 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: to figure out how to deal with that in a 351 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: way that was satisfying anyway. That whole design decision became 352 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: a big hurdle. But another hurdle was that Quibi was 353 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: meant to be mobile only by design. It was not 354 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: intended to be an app that you would access on 355 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: a computer or smart television or streaming box or anything 356 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,239 Speaker 1: like that, and something that was outside the control and 357 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: not predicted by the folks at Quibi when they were 358 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: putting together their business plan was the COVID nineteen pandemic, 359 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: which took a lot of us totally by surprise. So 360 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: Quibi was really intended to be used for a world 361 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: that was on the go, right. The use case was 362 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: that you would be out in the real world and 363 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: you would have time to kill. Maybe you're waiting in 364 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: line of the bank, or maybe you're sitting on a 365 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: subway and you're on your way to work and you 366 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: just need something to distract you from the tedium of life. 367 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: Boom Quib is there to save the day. High production 368 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: value scripted entertainment or you know, like game shows or whatever, 369 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: but still high production value, not the type of stuff 370 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: you would see typically on a site like TikTok. Except 371 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: the app launched just as the world was shutting down 372 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: and going into quarantine in twenty twenty, so the use 373 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: case for the app was no longer relevant, at least 374 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: not for the several first months of the app's existence. 375 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: Plenty of critics said that even without the pandemic, Quibi 376 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: would have just totally failed, But certainly the lockdown was 377 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: a massive blow to the service when there were plenty 378 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: of other options folks could act when they were at home. 379 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: Why use Quibi if you have access to Netflix or 380 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: one of the billion other streaming services that are out 381 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: there now. The Verge has an article going through other 382 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: reasons why Quibi flopped. The writer Julia Alexander argues in 383 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: that piece that one big reason is that none of 384 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: the shows on Quibbi were particularly good, and that is 385 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: a really tough problem. It is hard to convince folks 386 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: to flock to your streaming service if the stuff you're 387 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: streaming isn't very entertaining or compelling. Alexander actually says, quote 388 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: most titles felt like jokes straight out of thirty Rock 389 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: end quoteff if you don't know what that means. Thirty 390 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: Rock was this sitcom, a satirical sitcom about creating a 391 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: late night comedy variety show a kin to Saturday Night Live. 392 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: And often the show was joking about different shows that 393 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: the network was launching, and they were always ridiculous, and 394 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, you would never really expect to see such 395 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: a show in the real world well, Quibi apparently brought 396 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: those kinds of shows to the real world. Initially, Quibi 397 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: offered a free subscription for a few months to early users, 398 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: kind of a trial period, but once that trial period 399 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: ran out, users were then given the option to subscribe 400 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: to the service either for five dollars a month, which 401 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: was an ad supported experience, or eight dollars a month 402 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: if you wanted to be free of ads. But since, 403 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: as Alexander points out, there really wasn't much compelling content 404 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: on the streaming service, most folks declined the offer once 405 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: it stopped being free. They're like, that's it, I'm out, 406 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: there's nothing here to keep me here. Julia Alexander also 407 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: argues that Quibi was doomed even if there had never 408 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: been a pandemic, and it's quite possible that she was right, because, 409 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: as we do know, Katzenberg and Whitman were at odds 410 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: with each other. There was a lack of good content 411 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: on Quibi. There were a lot of other competing services 412 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: already out there, and there weren't a lot of good 413 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: arguments to say, why use Quibi when there are these 414 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: other alternatives? Right, And to Alexander's point, the people at 415 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: Quibi never really settled on what Quibi actually was, or 416 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: what it was for, or what its mission was. And 417 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: because there was this lack of clarity, there was really 418 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: little chance of success. Now we'll never know if Quibi 419 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: would have succeeded had there not been a pandemic, or 420 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: if it would have survived, but we do know that 421 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: Quibi launched on April sixth, twenty twenty, and it was 422 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: shut down by December of twenty twenty. It didn't even 423 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: make it a full year. And considering how much money 424 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: was behind that app, like, remember, this is an app 425 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: that spent a billion dollars just on the content, that's 426 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: not even on the engineering or anything else. Well, that's 427 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: a massive flop, like big time flop in the tech world. 428 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: And while we're on the subject of short form entertainment, 429 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: let's talk about a pre sir to TikTok, something that 430 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: kind of was forging the path that other services like 431 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: TikTok or Instagram reels would follow. And I'm talking about 432 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: the venerable and missed app Vine, at least it's missed 433 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: by some people, including me. So in twenty twelve, Don Hoffman, 434 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: Colin Kroll, and Russ Yusopov developed and launched the app Vine. Now, 435 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: for those of y'all who have never experienced Vine, it 436 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: was a short form video app where you could record 437 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: and then post a six second video clip and it 438 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: would automatically loop once it reached the end, so it 439 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: would play out the six seconds or however long it was. 440 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: It could be less than six seconds, and then once 441 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: it was at the end, it would start over again 442 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: until you scrolled to the next you know, Vine. And 443 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: this made the app ideal for meme worthy content, so 444 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: it was great for stuff like pranks or funny visual gags, 445 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: or amazing feats of skill, like if someone was, you know, 446 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: shooting a basketball from half court and sinking it perfectly 447 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: nothing but net perfect Vine, right. And it also meant 448 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: that folks started to get really creative. They started to 449 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: look at Vine as sort of a challenging platform and 450 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: they wanted to create content specifically for it, and they 451 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: would create six second long stories, typically comedic. Right. You'd 452 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: have a setup and then a punchline and it would 453 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: all take place in six seconds, but sometimes it would 454 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: include things like scene changes. This was not easy to 455 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: do in Vine because there were no real editing tools 456 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: to speak of. Within the app, you could record, then 457 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: you could pause recording, and then you could start recording again. 458 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: But you had just that six seconds to do everything, 459 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: and you couldn't cut and edit clips together. So if 460 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: you had like a really good take in the first 461 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: three seconds of one verse and a really good conclusion 462 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: in the last three seconds of another version, you couldn't 463 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: pair those together. You had to get it all done 464 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: in one go, which meant if you made a mistake, 465 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: your options were either post the imperfect version or keep 466 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: trying till you got it right. Even so, with these restrictions, 467 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: folks flocked to Vine to make some pretty amazing short videos, 468 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: and they ranged all over the place. I mostly think 469 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: of the comedic ones, but there were other ones too. 470 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: There were some that weren't, you know, comedic. They were 471 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: like heartwarming or you know, they might make you weepy, 472 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: depending upon the content. Vine was a phenomenon shortly after 473 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: launching in June of twenty twelve, and it was enough 474 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: to convince Twitter to acquire the company in October of 475 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: twenty twelve for thirty million smackaroos, which is not bad 476 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: for a newly launched app. A couple of years later, 477 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, some successful Vine creators all banded together 478 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: to move into an apartment complex which became kind of 479 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: a ragtag collaborative studio in a sense, and they found 480 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: further exposure on mainstream media. Like their success on Vine 481 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: translated to larger platforms like classic ones on television. But 482 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: even by twenty fourteen, things were starting to get rocky 483 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,719 Speaker 1: for Vine. One major reason is that Vine was in 484 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: trouble due to hefty competition. You see, the same year 485 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: that Vine launched, back in twenty twelve, Meta which at 486 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: that point was just known as Facebook, acquired Instagram for 487 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: a billion smack a roos. That's really a princely sum. 488 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: And then in twenty thirteen, Instagram introduced the ability to 489 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: post video clips of up to fifteen seconds in length, 490 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: so already more than twice as long as a Vine. 491 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: Instagram also already had a huge user base, which was 492 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: made even larger by Facebook's integration, and it took a 493 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: big old gulp of Vine's milkshake as a result. Now, 494 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: this move should not have surprised anyone, because even back then, 495 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: Facebook already had a reputation for scooping up companies that 496 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: could otherwise distract Facebook users. Instagram was actually a great 497 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: example of this. Instagram was one of those acquisitions where 498 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: Facebook says, Oh, this other app is starting to get 499 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: people's attention, which means their attention isn't on our website, 500 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: which means we're not making money from them. I don't 501 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: like that. Let's fix it. And Facebook typically had one 502 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: of two ways that they would fix this problem. They 503 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: would buy the company and incorporate it into Facebook's corporate structure, 504 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: and thus it became a bonus. It was adding to 505 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: Facebook's value. It was no longer taking away. Or they 506 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: could copy it, and if they copied it, then they 507 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: get undermine their competitor, and in the case of Vine, 508 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: Facebook shows that option. They would just mimic the defining 509 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: features of the co competitor, either in Facebook or in 510 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: one of their other properties, and they would try to 511 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: sap the user base back over to Facebook without having 512 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: to buy the competition. That's kind of what was going 513 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: on with Vine, and it worked. The money began to 514 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: shift from Vine to Instagram, and that money was largely 515 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: coming out of marketing departments. So brands were partnering with 516 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: popular creators in an effort to manufacture some viral marketing campaigns, 517 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,719 Speaker 1: and these could be really cost effective, right, Like, if 518 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: you're a creator, a deal might land you a ton 519 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: of money, but that ton of money would still be 520 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: tiny compared to what a traditional mainstream marketing campaign would 521 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: cost a company. So then there you go. That's where 522 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: the money was for Vine. But then Instagram was offering 523 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: a longer form factor, right, more than twice as long 524 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: as what a vine was, and that was far more 525 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: attractive to a lot of marketers out there. Like when 526 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: you're talking fifteen seconds, you're talking half of a traditional 527 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: television commercial. So the shift of money and influence meant 528 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: that creators would also jump ship from Vine to Instagram 529 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: or in some cases to other platforms like YouTube. Now, 530 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: not everyone did it, but it was really challenging to 531 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: go in for that small pool of money that was 532 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: still available for Vine creators. And it was also scary 533 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: to port your work from one platform to another because 534 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: there was no guarantee the audience would follow. Right, just 535 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: because you were popular on Vine doesn't mean you're going 536 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: to find the same success if you move over to 537 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: Instagram or to YouTube. Some folks could do that, and 538 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: maybe they would lose some of their audience, but they 539 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: would have enough to be able to not lose too 540 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: much momentum. For others, it would mean having to start 541 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: from scratch, and there's no guarantee that you'll strike gold twice. 542 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: But since that pool of money was getting smaller and 543 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: smaller over at Vine, most creators didn't need a lot 544 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: of convincing. They had to switch or else they weren't 545 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: going to make any money anyway. So Vine went into 546 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: further decline, and in twenty sixteen, Twitter announced it was 547 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: going to shut down Vine, which happened in early twenty seventeen. 548 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: And we can still feel the influence of Vine today 549 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: in the form of Instagram reels and TikTok videos, and 550 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: it's possible that neither of those things would have happened 551 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: without Vine. And I know lots of folks who to 552 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: this day limit the loss of Vine. So farewell Vine. 553 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: We hardly knew. Yee, Okay, we're gonna take another quick break. 554 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: When we come back. We've got a couple more examples 555 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: I really want to talk about. Okay, let's talk about 556 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: some more failures. And this next one is one that 557 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: I absolutely loved, even as I recognized that it was 558 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: a hot mess from the get go, and it probably 559 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: wasn't a practical solution for ninety nine percent of the 560 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: population out there. So I'm talking about Google Wave, And honestly, 561 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: I could do a full episode just about Google apps 562 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: that have come and gone, and in fact, I actually 563 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: have done that at least once or twice in the past. 564 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: But Google Wave has a special place in my heart. 565 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: So Google launched this bizarre app back in two thousand 566 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: and nine, and it was a real time online collaborative 567 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: tool and it was kind of like a Frankenstein's Monster 568 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: of features. There were elements of email worked in there, 569 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: Instant messaging was worked in there, online word processing, and 570 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: lots more. So you could create a document in Google Wave, 571 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: you could invite online collaborators and all of you could 572 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: work within that document at the same time, and you 573 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: would be able to see what others were doing in 574 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: the document, like word by word. You could watch as 575 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: they made typos and corrected and stuff. It was all 576 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: going at the same time, and the app would also 577 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: keep a history of all the changes made to the document. 578 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: So maybe someone's going off the rails right and you're like, no, wait, 579 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: we can't none of this is working for this document. 580 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: You could actually wind things back to an earlier version. 581 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: I only used Google Wave with one other person, who 582 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: was my former co host, Chris Pillette. We used Google 583 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: Wave to build out a run of show for a 584 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: streaming video series we used to do way back in 585 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: the day. So once a week we would do a 586 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: streaming video that was kind of like a tech news 587 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: program live on TV in the middle of the day 588 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: Eastern time, and we would use Google Wave to organize 589 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: our show and even to make changes on the fly 590 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: while streaming our video content. And it was an ideal 591 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: tool for that situation. The trouble was, I couldn't figure 592 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: out any other use case where it would really make 593 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: sense for me, just this one thing I would do 594 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: once a week for my job, and for a lot 595 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: of folks out there, they never found a good use 596 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: for Google Wave. By the way, I really miss that 597 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: streaming video show. One of the fun things that we 598 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: used to have in that show is that occasionally either 599 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick, one of the hosts of Stuff they Don't 600 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: Want You to Know, would do this, or some some 601 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: times Tyler Klaig, who's now like the head of our 602 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: podcast production. Both of them are still with the company. 603 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: I would do a tweet of the week segment and 604 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: they would hold up a little bird on a stick. 605 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: They would be out of frame and they would poke 606 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: a bird of stick to be in front of my 607 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: face and they would make a tweet sound, which just 608 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: shows how far those guys have come since we were 609 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: doing the streaming news show. Anyway, features in Google Wave 610 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 1: would eventually find their way into lots of other Google applications, 611 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: but Google Wave itself was just not very long for 612 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: this world. Google supported it for about a year. Then 613 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: they essentially said, you know what, this isn't working for us, 614 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: and they shifted it off to the Apache Software Foundation 615 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: in twenty ten. Folks suggested that Google's decision was due 616 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 1: to lots of converging reasons, ranging from just a confusing 617 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: interface that was turning away new users to internal conflicts 618 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: that were happening within the development team, especially at the 619 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: leadership level. There were stories that there were leaders who 620 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: were disagreeing on what Google Wave was even supposed to be, 621 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: which meant that the development team was put in this 622 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: really difficult position in the middle to try and create 623 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: all things for all people, which was impossible, so they 624 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: ended up creating something that was for nobody. But even 625 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: the Apache Wave version is no more. The nonprofit group 626 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: had Wave in an incubator status for almost a decade, 627 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: but in twenty eighteen the Wave became still Waters because 628 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: development ceased and Wave just never graduated out of that 629 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: incubator status. Now I can't say that I would still 630 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 1: be using Wave to this day if it were still around, 631 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: but that's mostly because tech stuff is a pretty simple project. 632 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: I research, write, and record all the episodes, and then 633 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: super producer Tari she edits and publishes the episodes, so 634 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: there is collaboration there. Tari and I do collaborate, but 635 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: it's divided really neatly into a production phase and a 636 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 1: post production phase. Perhaps if I were more actively working 637 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: on shows that had multiple collaborate I would feel Waves 638 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: loss more keenly. But I really liked using it, even 639 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: while I recognized how weird and janky it was. Now 640 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: this list could go on much much longer, but I 641 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: figure I'll conclude with a rock Star like story, and 642 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: that story involves a company called pay by Touch Will. 643 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: Most of the apps I've talked about so far were 644 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: ones that you would either use on your phone or 645 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: on your computer. Pay by Touch was different, okay, it 646 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: was an app that was a service, and this service 647 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: would let you pay for purchases at a point of sale, 648 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: primarily in places like supermarkets here in the United States, 649 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 1: and all you had to do was swipe your finger 650 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: on a fingerprint sensor at the cash register, and your 651 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: biometric data would correspond to your pay by Touch account 652 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: and an electronic transaction would take care of your grocery 653 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: bill by deducting it from your checking account or from 654 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: a credit card, and you could go on your merry 655 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: way without ever having to hand over cash or write 656 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: a check or use a cra card physically. Just swipe 657 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: your finger, good to go. This was the future, and 658 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: it was all in two thousand and two. The idea 659 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: of having your financials directly tied to your own identity 660 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: was one that had been around for a while but 661 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: not really accomplished. So again, it was really considered to 662 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: be convenient, and you could even tie your biometrics to 663 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: things like a store loyalty account, so by using your fingerprint, 664 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: you could then apply discounts or coupons to whatever it 665 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: was you were buying, and this was coming out in 666 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: two thousand and two, you know, like five years before 667 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: we would get the first iPhone. So these days, you know, 668 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: obviously we have lots of contactless payment solutions, mostly tied 669 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: to mobile phones, But back in two thousand and two, 670 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: this was really revolutionary. Now, the services did face challenges. 671 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: One big one was that folks were a little anxious 672 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 1: about having their money tied to their fingerprints. There seemed 673 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: to be something invasive about that. Heck, if you're the 674 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: type of person who prefers to use cash for your transactions, 675 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: it absolutely goes against your references. Also, the thought of 676 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: a third party company potentially having insight into your purchase 677 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: history seemed creepy. But despite the slow going and low 678 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: adoption rate, pay by Touch did grow and got lots 679 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: of investors. It expanded its business into various supermarket chains. 680 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 1: But then the company would ultimately declare bankruptcy in two 681 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: thousand and eight. So what happened, Well, part of what 682 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: happened was a failure to communicate to the public the 683 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: benefits of this system. Just really bad marketing and education. 684 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: The concept again, including things like tying biometrics to loyalty 685 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: programs and stuff that just didn't really get communicated effectively 686 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: in most locations, and some stores were just using the 687 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: system for loyalty programs and customers would still pay for 688 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: their purchases using more traditional means. So there was this 689 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: element of distrust that the company was never able to overcome, 690 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: possibly for good reason, because another big reason for the 691 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: company's failure was in its leadership. The CEO of the 692 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: company was a guy named John P. Rogers, and he 693 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: had had some trouble with the law that largely went 694 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: unnoticed when he was getting investments for his company. At 695 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: least a couple of women had accused him of violent behavior, 696 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: one saying that he had abused her, the other saying 697 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: he had trashed her home. Both of them had been 698 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,879 Speaker 1: connected romantically with him. He had also been pulled over 699 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: by police and arrested on suspicion of driving under the 700 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: influence of cocaine, and apparently he was known to have 701 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: had issues with drug addiction. Investigation suggested that Rogers had 702 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: been rather extravagant with corporate funds, that he had spearheaded 703 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: efforts to convince those with really deep pockets to invest 704 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: in pay by touch that paid off in dividends. He 705 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: raised around three hundred and forty million dollars, but by 706 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight the coffers were empty, and the 707 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: investigation suggested that one reason for this was that Rogers 708 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: appeared to have been dipping into corporate funds to pay 709 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 1: for an extravagant lifestyle, complete with drug use. And when 710 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: I say extravagant, I mean that the investigation suggested he 711 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: was burning around eight million dollars a month, which is 712 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: a lot of money. And it would turn out that 713 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: Rogers had a history of failed businesses, something that no 714 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: one had really noticed when Pay by Touch was just 715 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: getting off the ground. He had managed to keep his 716 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: history kind of out of the spotlight, and investors didn't 717 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: ask any tough questions. They just were excited about this 718 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: potential opportunity to completely revolutionize the way we pay for 719 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: stuff at retail locations. Obviously that was key to him 720 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: securing investments. Ultimately, Pay by Touch went couput. Some investors 721 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: pursued civil litigation against the company and against Rogers, but 722 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,959 Speaker 1: he never faced criminal charges for how things went down, 723 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: which is kind of wild. I wasn't there, so I 724 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe the evidence was all circumstantial. Maybe there 725 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: was not a solid case against him, but it does 726 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: seem to fall in line with the perception that the 727 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: rules are different depending upon who you are and your 728 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: station in life. I don't know if that's actually the 729 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: case in this particular instance, but on the surface it 730 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: seems to reinforce that idea anyway. That is just a 731 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: quick list of some major apps that received a lot 732 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: of attention but ultimately flamed out. As I said, we 733 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: could go on much much longer with this list. There 734 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 1: are tons of other examples, and I'll probably do more 735 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: episodes about them in the future. And you should expect 736 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: these kind of things, right because again, creating an app 737 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: is seen as one of those gateways toward insane success 738 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley. Like it seems like everyone in Silicon 739 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: Valley is behind some sort of app, and we might 740 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: only hear about a small percentage of them. Some of 741 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: those cases are because the app is just so incredible 742 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: and useful that it's undeniable how valuable it is. In 743 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 1: other cases, it might be that it's a peculiarity and 744 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,880 Speaker 1: it gets some momentary notice and then ultimately that doesn't 745 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: stand the test of time. And in a few cases 746 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: it may just be notorious and infamous, as I would 747 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: argue the pay by touch story ultimately became once the 748 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: history of Rogers became more public knowledge. Anyway, I hope 749 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode. I hope you are all well, 750 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:31,399 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you again really soon. Tech 751 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 752 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 753 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.