1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey Bessies. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, economist Emily Oster is back 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 2: with more data driven insights on parenting, and today we're 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: diving deep into a groundbreaking new research on fertility. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, March fifth. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 3: I'm Simoane Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 3: bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Okay, it's a new month, 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 3: which means it's time for a brand new pick for 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 3: Reese's Book Club. 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Yes, Big News. 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 2: March's RBC pick is Broken Country by Claire Leslie Hall Well. 12 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: This book is all about young love and how it 13 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: can shape future generations. Set in rural England, this story 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: explores questions of morality and past lives as the characters meet, 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: fall in love, and find each other again later in life. 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: It's been called an evocative, sensitive and compelling novel. Well, today, 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: our love story with data driven parenting expert Emily Oster 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: continues and she's back talking about fertility this time. According 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: to the CDC, just over thirteen percent of women will 20 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: have difficulty getting pregnant and just over twelve percent of 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: women will turn to fertility services. And these aren't just statistics. 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: I'm sure everyone listening knows someone who has had difficulty 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: on their own fertility journey or has had difficulty conceiving themselves. 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: And as if navigating that journey isn't hard enough, there's 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: so much conflicting information out there about fertility. I know 26 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 3: so many women who struggle to determine where to turn, 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: which doctor to go to, where to find sound advice, 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: and that in itself adds a whole nother level of 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 3: stress and frustration. So joining us today is everyone's favorite 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 3: parenting expert, Emily Oster. Emily is an award winning economist, 31 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: professor of Economics at Brown University, and a New York 32 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: Times bestselling author. She's also the founder and CEO of 33 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 3: parent Data, a data driven guide to pregnancy, parenting, and beyond. 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 3: We have marveled at her parenting advice, and just recently 35 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: her site, parent Data published over seventy five articles and 36 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: started a new weekly newsletter where they explore all things fertility, 37 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 3: everything from IVF basics to donor conception and even exploring 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: fertility help for queer families. 39 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 2: We are thrilled to have her back on the show, 40 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: so let's get her in here. Emily Austur, Welcome back 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: to the Bright side. 42 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me back. I always love to 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 4: see you guys. 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: Oh, it's so good to see you. Too. Happy to 45 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: have you well. 46 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 2: Emily, you are such an essential voice in the parenting space. 47 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: You focused on parenting for decades, but with this new research, 48 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: you're specifically focusing on fertility, and so many people have 49 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 2: questions about this. So what are some of the biggest 50 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: questions that you set out to answer about conception? 51 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, so with this. 52 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 5: New vertical and parent data, we were really set out 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 5: to try to answer like three buckets of questions or 54 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 5: sort of serve three buckets of things. One is for 55 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 5: people just starting in their fertility journey, you know, just 56 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 5: the basics of like how exactly does this all work? 57 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 4: And this is the one that most motivated by my experience. 58 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 5: I remember when I started to try to get pregnant, 59 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 5: Like that was actually the first. 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: Time I really understood how the menstrual cycle worked. 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 5: And like, fair enough, maybe I should have understood this before, 62 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 5: but like it was all really new, and there was 63 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 5: a lot of stuff I wish I had understood about 64 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 5: when in the cycle you can get pregnant and just. 65 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 4: Like exactly how it goes together. 66 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 5: And then there are a lot of people who are 67 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 5: struggling with infertility in various ways, and when we looked 68 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 5: out at that landscape, it seemed like it's hard to 69 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 5: get unbiased, data based information about some of the basics 70 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 5: and then some of the more complicated questions. And so 71 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 5: there's kind of serving people who are just starting here 72 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 5: and then trying to help people navigate when things don't go, 73 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 5: like when you expect they don't go, like two months 74 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 5: in you're pregnant, but you really want to know, like 75 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 5: what are my options? 76 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 4: What are the things that I could do? What would help, 77 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 4: what would not help. So that's that's the goal going 78 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 4: into all of this, is to answer those questions. 79 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 3: Infertility seems like such a broad word. This may sound 80 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 3: like a simple question, but how is infertility diagnosed? 81 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 4: So it's not a simple question. So there's like two 82 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 4: different questions. 83 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: One is, you know, when do we start thinking about 84 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 5: asking about fertility. So for people who start to try 85 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,559 Speaker 5: to get pregnant, if the woman is under thirty five, 86 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 5: you basically want to try for twelve months and then 87 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 5: if that hasn't worked, seek help. 88 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 4: If people are over. 89 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 5: Thirty five, that tends to shorten to about six months. 90 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 5: So that's not a diagnosis of infertility. That's just the 91 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 5: question of like when would you want to start seeking help. 92 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 5: In terms of like how infertility is diagnosed, it's actually 93 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 5: a much more complicated question. When you go into seek help, 94 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 5: your doctors will do a bunch of tests for ovarian reserves, 95 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 5: you have eggs, they'll do tests on sperm and ultimately 96 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 5: sometimes there's something that can be directly diagnosed, like low 97 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 5: sperm count or not having enough eggs, and sometimes it's 98 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 5: just unexplained infertility, which just means you're struggling to get pregnant. 99 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 4: We don't really know why. 100 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 3: How many women are affected by infertility? 101 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's about one in five women are affected 102 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 5: by infertility. And I think people find that very surprising 103 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 5: in part because until you want to get pregnant, usually 104 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 5: you don't want to get pregnant, right, So I think 105 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 5: we spend so much time in health class in sort 106 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 5: of the education we give people about fertility, so much 107 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 5: of it is spent on how to not get pregnant, 108 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 5: And it's easy to conclude from that, like, well, when 109 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 5: I want to get pregnant, it'll be easy, Like I've 110 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 5: been investing so much in not getting pregnant. It must 111 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 5: be that when I stop doing those things, it will 112 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 5: happen right away. And I think that's that's not true 113 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 5: for about one in five people. And we don't tell 114 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 5: kids that certainly don't tell adults that much. 115 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 3: So why is it harder for some people to conceive 116 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 3: than others? Is there anything to the genetics of fertility? 117 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 5: There's almost always a genetic explanation for most things. There 118 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 5: are some things we know matter for conception, the age 119 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 5: being the most significant for women in particular. And then 120 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 5: there are some conditions that people can have that make 121 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 5: it more likely that they will struggle with infertility, like 122 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 5: pea cause or endometriosis sort of, some some kind of 123 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 5: uterine and other conditions that will make this more difficult. 124 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 5: There are some known conditions for men are surrounding sperm count, 125 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 5: but a lot of infertility is unexplained, and that correlates 126 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 5: within family in ways that suggest that there are some 127 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 5: genetics or some genetics and epigenetics. 128 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 4: But isn't that you could say, you know, here's the 129 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 4: genetic code that tells you whether you're going to be 130 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 4: fertile or not. We just like many things, know that 131 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 4: there must be some some genetic. 132 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: Component when it comes to fertility testing, what does that 133 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: process usually look like. 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 5: So there are a few very common things that will 135 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 5: happen in infertility testing. So if we sort of think 136 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 5: in general, there are like things that could be a 137 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 5: problem with the woman and things that could be a 138 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 5: problem with the man. 139 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 4: And so one way I think. 140 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 5: About it is, you know, in order to have a baby, 141 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 5: you need eggs that are high qualities firm that'shih quality, 142 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 5: a phallopian tube so the egg can get into the uterus, 143 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 5: and a uterus where the pregnancy can grow. And when 144 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: we think about diagnosing infertility, you want to they're going 145 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 5: to try to evaluate each of those things. 146 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 4: Some of those are easier to test than others. 147 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 5: So testing for sperm, for sort of viable sperm is 148 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 5: not that hard. Ejaculated to a cup and then you 149 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 5: look at it, and you want to look at the sperm, 150 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 5: and you look at how fast they swim, and how 151 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 5: many of them there are, and what their heads look like. 152 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 5: Sometimes there are problems where this heads are very pointy. 153 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 5: They're not supposed to be a pointy close to be around. 154 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 5: So male factor in fertility is something you could see. 155 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 5: It's also possible to see, you know, do you have 156 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 5: a functioning fallopian tube? Is the uterus a shape that 157 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 5: you are the issues with the uterus. The thing that's 158 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 5: most difficult to diagnose and is often where people sort 159 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 5: of stop and then we don't really know is egg equality. 160 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 5: You can get some sense of counts of eggs, and 161 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 5: there are some hormone tests that will give you a 162 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 5: sense of how many eggs someone has, but how many 163 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 5: eggs is not self the same is how good the 164 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 5: eggs are, and it actually itself is not necessarily a 165 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 5: predictor of fertility. So those are the things you will 166 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 5: be they will test for, and probably unfortunately, the one 167 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 5: that you would most want to know about, which is 168 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 5: egg quality, is something we can only see pretty indirectly. 169 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: We'll be right back with the Emily aster, and we're 170 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 2: back with Emily Ooster. 171 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: Emily, I froze my eggs a year ago, a little 172 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 3: over a year ago, and it's become a huge topic 173 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: among my peers. And in a parent data story you 174 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 3: recently published, I saw a statistic that I was shocked by, 175 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: to be honest, there was an eight hundred and eighty 176 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: percent increase in egg freezing in the US from twenty 177 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 3: twelve to twenty sixteen, and that number is just climbing, 178 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 3: so almost a nine hundred percent increase. So before I 179 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: froze my eggs, I did a lot of research. And 180 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 3: the problem is is there's actually not that much research 181 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: around because it hasn't been around. 182 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: For that long. 183 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 3: What does the research say about the longevity of frozen 184 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: eggs and their eventual viability? 185 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 5: We don't really know, I mean the eventual viability. You know, 186 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 5: we can see numbers like seventy to eighty percent of 187 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 5: thought eggs we expect to fertilize, and about sixty percent 188 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 5: of those we grow into into embryos. So one number 189 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 5: that we quote in one of these articles is, you know, 190 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 5: each egg has about a seven percent chance of becoming 191 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 5: a live birth. 192 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 4: But those numbers are based on. 193 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 5: Small sample sizes, based on pretty old data, and some 194 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 5: of the questions you want, like okay, well if I 195 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 5: leave over five years, is that okay? 196 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: What about ten years? 197 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 5: Like, we really don't know, because this hasn't been around 198 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 5: for long enough, not enough people have actually tried to 199 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 5: sort of go through to the end of the of 200 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 5: the eggs reising and see what happens. 201 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: I read a New York Times article a few years 202 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: ago that said only three percent of women who freeze 203 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 3: their eggs actually go to use the eggs, which is 204 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: very low. 205 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 5: So I think one of the things that happens is 206 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 5: if people freeze their eggs when they're young. If you've 207 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 5: read how Old, can I ask how old you are? 208 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 4: Yeah? 209 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like thirty three when I froze them. 210 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 5: So you know, say you then have a partner, you'd 211 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 5: sort of start you're thirty six for thirty seven and 212 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 5: you are interested in having a kid. Most providers would 213 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 5: tell you at that point you should start trying to 214 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 5: have a baby in this X way and see what happens. 215 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 5: And for a lot of people freeze their eggs, that 216 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 5: ends up being the way that they that this works out. 217 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 5: Because of course, the process of defrosting eggs and fertilizing 218 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 5: them and implanting them is a full on IVF process, 219 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 5: which is a much bigger deal medically than sex, and 220 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 5: so people will try and then often that does work 221 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 5: for them, and then they. 222 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 4: Don't end up using the eggs. 223 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 5: So I think there's a sort of like it's it's insurance, 224 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 5: but it's not even if you had frozen eggs from 225 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 5: when you were twenty six and you were thirty seven, 226 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 5: they wouldn't tell you to start with the twenty six 227 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 5: year old eggs. 228 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: So this is anecdotal and not data supported. 229 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: But I've had several friends who are five six years 230 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 3: older than me. They froze their eggs around the same 231 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: age I did, and then when they went to go 232 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: dethaw them, none of them worked. 233 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: And so I have this. 234 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 3: Very complicated feeling around egg freezing right now, because I 235 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: while I'm grateful that it exists, I'm not sure that 236 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: the science has really like caught up with where providers 237 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 3: are telling people it has. 238 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's that's right. 239 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 5: Like a lot of things in this space, we sort 240 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 5: of tell people like, oh, it's insurance, and then you know, 241 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 5: you'll just have it and when you need it. 242 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 4: It'll be ready. And it's like, that's actually not necessarily true. 243 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: And I just share that because I think people should know. 244 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 5: Yes, I think people should know that, And I think 245 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 5: part of what's hard is you don't exactly know what, 246 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 5: like it could it could work. 247 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 4: It certainly like it certainly has, and you don't want to. 248 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 5: Tell people this will never work because that's not true, 249 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 5: and how we don't have the data to give people 250 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 5: really precise answers to what is a chance that you 251 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 5: know you will get these idita will vary across people. 252 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: So for those who are interested in attempting egg freezing, 253 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: what does the research tell us about how we can 254 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 2: maximize the results of the procedure. I know that you 255 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier that age is the number one determinant of 256 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: fertility or infertility? Is that true with egg freezing too? 257 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: What's the ideal age? The ideal age is an interesting question. 258 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: So when people do like research on like what. 259 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 5: Is the the most cost effective age of freezing eggs? 260 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 4: Actually pretty old. It's like thirty six or thirty. 261 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 5: Seven, because the idea is like you could freeze them 262 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 5: at twenty two, but the chance you would need them 263 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 5: is pretty small because there's a long time between twenty 264 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 5: two and you know, when your natural fertility ends, there's 265 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,599 Speaker 5: like a long time to need somebody and try to 266 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 5: get pregnant the sex way, So there's more push to 267 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 5: kind of freeze eggs a little bit later when it's 268 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 5: more likely that you would use them if there were 269 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 5: sort of no constraints, and egg freezing wasn't a somewhat 270 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 5: involved physical process. You would ideally freeze them when you 271 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 5: were as young as possible, because the number of eggs 272 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 5: that you will get for a stimulation cycle and the 273 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 5: quality of the eggs is likely to be higher because 274 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 5: the younger you are, the higher quality are the eggs. 275 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 5: So I think there's this trade off, Like it's not 276 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 5: just snapping your fingers. I mean, Danielle, you did this. 277 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 5: It's not just like you wake up one morning and 278 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 5: pee on a stick. Like it's freezing your eggs is 279 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 5: an involved physical process, and like all medical procedures, comes 280 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 5: with some risk and discomfort. And so that's why there 281 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 5: is a trade off, and we don't just say we'll 282 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 5: do everybody twenty two. 283 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: There's also this like unexplainable element of it. I was 284 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 3: thirty two when I thought I was going to do it. 285 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: I did all the tests and I ended up waiting. 286 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: But I had more viable eggs at thirty three than 287 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: I did at thirty two, which is weird. 288 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 5: Yes, and also basically impossible, and suggests that there is 289 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 5: a like that's that's on. 290 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 4: The way eggs are. 291 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 5: Like, I think this is a good illustration of some 292 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 5: of the noise in this process. So you had a test, 293 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 5: presumably some kind of AMH or like AMA, some kind 294 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 5: of hormone. You had an AMAH test, and the AMH 295 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 5: tells you something about the number of eggs that you have, 296 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 5: doesn't tell you anything about the quality of your eggs, 297 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 5: tells you about the number, right, And it's noisy, and 298 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 5: so that means you know, you're testing at thirty two 299 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 5: and thirty three. You can't have more eggs at thirty 300 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 5: three than at thirty two. 301 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Like it's they only go down over time. 302 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 4: It's not like sperm. We're making sperm all the time. 303 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 5: Eggs you only get the once and so it can't 304 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 5: be that they went up. It just means, like the 305 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 5: data is noisy or something else, that you did change 306 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 5: this this hormone level for you. 307 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: Oh, that's so good. 308 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 3: Well, speaking of sperm, I'm curious about what the research 309 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: says about fertility as it relates to sperm, because I've 310 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: heard recently that a lot of women think that they're 311 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 3: infertile and it's actually the sperm, and we're not testing 312 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 3: that as often. 313 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 5: Actually, something like thirty percent to half of couples with infertility. 314 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 5: It is male factor in fertility, So there's something wrong 315 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 5: on that side. I think part of why we don't 316 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 5: hear as much about that is that it is actually 317 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 5: more treatable. So it's part of why it's such an 318 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 5: important thing to test. Because there are many things you 319 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 5: can do to improve sperm quality different from what you 320 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 5: do to improve egg quality. So your eggs are kind 321 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 5: of what they are sperm. If you're like I don't 322 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 5: have enough sperm, there's actually a bunch of lifestyle changes 323 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 5: that people could make that will potentially have large impacts 324 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 5: on sperm in a relatively short period of times. The 325 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 5: sperm's made over like a two week cycle. So like 326 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 5: if you wear very underwear, or you like bike a lot, 327 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 5: like Mountain bike a lot, your testicles are hot. 328 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 4: Sperm doesn't grow well. 329 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 5: With hot testicles, so like, just stop making your testicles 330 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 5: so hot is like a good piece of advice. And 331 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 5: then people smoke, You smoke a lot of marijuana, you 332 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 5: drink a lot. Actually those things will also like lower 333 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 5: the quality of sperm and number of sperm matter. So 334 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 5: you know, male factor in fertility definitely shows up, but 335 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 5: there's a bunch of things we can do, and even 336 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 5: if you don't have that many sperm, you can like 337 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 5: take them out and spin them around and put them 338 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 5: in closer to where they would find the egg, so 339 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 5: that it's like it can be a more tractable problem. 340 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 3: I heard on TikTok that this girl was saying, yeah, 341 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 3: I know, oh God is right, but debunk this. 342 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: I heard on TikTok that. 343 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 3: Potentially how women feel in their first trimester has something 344 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: to do with sperm. 345 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: Is that true at all? 346 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 5: No, there are actually some interesting things about the sort 347 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 5: of interactions between like the parent and some pregnancy complications. Actually, Like, 348 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 5: so pre clampsia is like less likely if you switch partners, 349 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 5: but like if you were a pre clamcy at a 350 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 5: first pregnancy and then you switch to a new partner, 351 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 5: like the risk is lower. It seems like that has 352 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 5: something to do with men. But I do not believe 353 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 5: that it. 354 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 2: Is the case that you're sorry, No, Well, I have 355 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: several friends who are contemplating using a sperm donor, So 356 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: what are some factors that they should consider before making 357 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 2: their selection. 358 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is an issue that comes up for 359 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 5: both couples where there is a male partner but they 360 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 5: are not able to produce sperm, or more commonly, when 361 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 5: there is no male partner in the couple or there's 362 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 5: no couple, and the choices here we have on parent 363 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 5: data a number of really great pieces written about this choice. 364 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 5: One piece of this choice is do you want to. 365 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 4: Know the person or not? 366 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 5: And that's actually not so much a data question but 367 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 5: just a like basic question of like is that you 368 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 5: know anonymous versus known donors are a different experience, and 369 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 5: some people want to have a relationship with the donor 370 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 5: and some some people do not. 371 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 4: So that's kind of the first important decision, which also 372 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 4: has a cost element. So sperm is expensive. 373 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 5: It's like fifteen hundred dollars a vial, and you know 374 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 5: that's not as expensive as IBF, but it is expensive, 375 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 5: and a known donor will often give you their sperm 376 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 5: for free, and you can get more bites at the 377 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 5: apple with the donor. So the question is really like 378 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 5: in some ways, it is somewhat easier in the moment 379 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 5: to have a known donor because you can have this 380 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 5: ferm right away self and Semite do it a few 381 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 5: times in a month, increasing the chances of it happening 382 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 5: you don't have to buy the sperm, but there are 383 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 5: complications down the line depending on what kind of. 384 00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 4: Relationship you want to have with the person. 385 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 3: We'll be right back with Emily Oster. And we're back 386 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 3: with Emily Oster. One of the greatest articles I've read 387 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 3: on parent data was about the impact stress has on fertility, 388 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 3: and I think this is a really interesting connection. What 389 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: does the data say about stress and infertility and is 390 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 3: it at all a myth? 391 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 5: So this is I would say, like one of the 392 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 5: most common claims that things that you hear about stress 393 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 5: and infertility, and I think it's it's also one of 394 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 5: these like very frustrating things that people hear because it's 395 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 5: like I'm struggling to get pregnant and then I'm stressed 396 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 5: out about that, and then it's like, we'll just relax. 397 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 5: Did she just relax? Like just relax, and it's like 398 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 5: the stress is making it worse. It's like, well, but 399 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: now I'm stressed and I'm stressed because that's making it. 400 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 4: That's making it worse. 401 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 5: So you know, it's a hard, hard question to answer 402 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 5: in the data. 403 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 4: We have a little bit. 404 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 5: Of evidence from some meta analysis data that suggests that 405 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 5: there's a small association between sort of stress and IBF outcome, 406 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 5: which is the kind of simplest way to study this 407 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 5: because you know, people are trying to get pregnant. But 408 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 5: the effects in these studies are mixed in their size 409 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 5: and generally on average very small. There are, of course, 410 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 5: some like very extreme things when people are very extreme 411 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 5: stressful situations in which they don't have enough to eat, 412 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 5: or there's like you know, kind of like large scale 413 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 5: physical stresses on the body that can impact fertility. But 414 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 5: if we're talking about like being anxious, being stressed out 415 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 5: about things in your life or about the fertility, at 416 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 5: most those effects are very very minimal. 417 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: That actually is really wonderful to hear. 418 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 3: No, really, because when I was going through my egg 419 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 3: freezing process, everybody was like, you need to do acupuncture 420 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 3: and make sure you're not stressed. And it's like, it's 421 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 3: so hard to be going through that or IVF and 422 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: function in your life and then think, oh, I need 423 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 3: my stress levels down. 424 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: It makes you more stressed. 425 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 426 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 5: I think what's really hard in this space is we 427 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 5: want there to be things that people can do because 428 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 5: there's so much loss of control, particularly in fertility treatments 429 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 5: that you know you in some ways, you kind of 430 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 5: wish you could say, well, if you only did these 431 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 5: six things, you know, it would work better. But for 432 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 5: the most part, there isn't a lot of data suggesting 433 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 5: that those things are helpful. 434 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 4: And I worry that when. 435 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 5: We tell people about those things and then they're not 436 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 5: doing them, then that stresses them out. And even if 437 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 5: that doesn't impact fertility, to make your life worse. Yes, 438 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 5: so it might almost be better to say you don't 439 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 5: have that much control over this process, and you know 440 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 5: the main things you can do, or pick a doctor 441 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 5: that you're comfortable with, and then it's largely out of 442 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 5: your control. 443 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 4: Yeah. 444 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 3: Well, in this vein, there was a question that was 445 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 3: posed on parent data from a woman in her forties. 446 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 3: She'd been trying to conceive for almost three years, and 447 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 3: she asked what she could do to improve her egg quality. 448 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: Is there anything that she could do? 449 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 5: There is really nothing that we know of that can 450 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 5: improve your egg quality. It is mostly your age. So 451 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 5: eggs decline with age, they acquire chromosomal issues, which makes 452 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 5: it more difficult to conceive. There are a lot of 453 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 5: things people are told about their egg quality. Coenzon Q 454 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 5: ten is like the one I hear the most about, 455 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 5: and in some ways there's no reason to think that 456 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 5: would be harmful, but the data on these is not 457 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 5: very compelling and certainly does that suggest any sizeable or 458 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 5: significant effects. And again that like, that's so frustrating as 459 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 5: a message. 460 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: Emily, you have this gift for making inaccessible information more accessible. 461 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: You've created these guides for queer couples who are trying 462 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 2: to build their family outside of traditional family structures. And 463 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: I'm curious, what are the most common questions that you 464 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 2: get from queer readers, like how do they hope to 465 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 2: see themselves reflected in these topics? 466 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 5: I mean, I think the set of questions that that 467 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 5: queer readers are facing in the fertility space are I mean, 468 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 5: actually many of them are the same, and then some 469 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 5: of them are different. And I think making sure that 470 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 5: people's experiences are seen is one of the things that 471 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 5: we think a lot about at parent Data and something 472 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 5: that I think a lot about because, you know, I 473 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 5: because I want whatever is the information we're able to translate. 474 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 5: I wanted to be out to as many people as possible. 475 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 5: And Maria Goodman, who did a lot of the writing 476 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 5: for us in this you know, they work with a 477 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 5: lot of couples who are going through this, and so 478 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 5: that was like very useful. They were an amazing resource 479 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 5: for trying to figure out what people are, what people 480 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 5: are asking. I think the big questions there are just 481 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 5: in some ways that choice set is much larger at 482 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 5: the top. So if there are two women in the couple, 483 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 5: you have to figure out how to get sperm, but 484 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 5: then one person could carry, the other person could carry. 485 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 4: There are options for reciprocal. 486 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 5: IVF if you go through IVF where it's somebody's eggs 487 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 5: and somebody else is the carrier, So like the range 488 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 5: of choices are much larger. If there are no uteruses 489 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 5: in the relationship, then there is this question of adoption 490 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 5: versus a gestational carrier, question of who's ferm to you 491 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 5: is a question of where to get eggs. So there 492 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 5: are a bunch of pieces of logistics, each of which 493 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 5: are also surrounded by some emotional valance. And what those 494 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 5: pieces in the parent data really try to do is 495 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 5: talk people through here are the choices, Here are the 496 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 5: things that you're going to face. Here are the things 497 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 5: you're going to want to think about so you can 498 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 5: make good decisions and here's some data that you might 499 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 5: incorporate in your choices. But I think it almost is 500 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 5: starting with like, where does one start with this set 501 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 5: of questions? 502 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 3: Emily, I want to do a little factor fertility myth 503 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 3: with you. 504 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 4: Okay, let's do it. 505 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 3: True or fall Certain foods cause infertility? False, You shouldn't 506 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 3: consume caffeine while trying to conceive. 507 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 4: False. 508 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 3: When trying to conceive, it's best to have intercourse every 509 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 3: other day. 510 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 6: It's very important to hit the day of ovulation or 511 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 6: the day before because those are the highest chance of 512 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 6: getting the sperm to be waiting for the egg when 513 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 6: it arrives in the Philippian tube. 514 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 4: Sometimes people will. 515 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 5: Hear you don't do it every day because the sperm 516 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 5: there's like less sperm, but that is not well supported 517 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 5: by data. 518 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 4: Sperm comes back within about twenty four hours. 519 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 5: So if you want to do it every day, that's fine, 520 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 5: But doing it every other day is also fine. 521 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: Okay. 522 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 3: Prolonged use of birth control can affect fertility. 523 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 5: There is no evidence that prolonged use of birth control 524 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 5: effects fertility. 525 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 2: Like all these answers, how about timing of conception during ovulation? 526 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 2: How does that potentially impact the gender? 527 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 4: If at all, it does not impact the gender. 528 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 5: So many people have the perception that male sperm is 529 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 5: fast but dies soon and female sperm is longer lasting. 530 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 5: And so if you want to have a girl, you 531 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 5: should have sex further away from ovulation, because then only 532 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 5: the girl sperm will be left. And if you want 533 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 5: to have a boy, you want to have sex right 534 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 5: at ovulation. 535 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 4: This is a myth. 536 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 5: It's called the Shuttle's method, and it does not work. 537 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 5: It does not result in having more boys or more 538 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 5: girls or anything like that does not work. 539 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 4: So that's not a way to impact the gender of 540 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 4: your child. 541 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: Okay, setting all the data aside for a second, which 542 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: I know you love to do, right, that's like your 543 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 2: favorite thing is just ignoring the ignoring the data. Yeah, 544 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: it's like totally ignoring the data. But if we were 545 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: to do that for a second, I know that you 546 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: encounter people who are experiencing the human side of this, 547 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 2: the human toll of this, right, like the pain of 548 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 2: month after month not being able to conceive and throwing 549 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 2: their hands up and trying to understand why, why me, 550 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: why is this happening or why is this not happening? 551 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 2: What would you say to someone who is struggling to 552 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: get pregnant and feels hopeless. 553 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 5: I'm so sorry that you're going through this, and I 554 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 5: hope that it resolves in a way that makes you happy. 555 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think there is very much. I 556 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 5: think it's a very strong temptation in a setting like 557 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 5: that to be like it's all going to be great, 558 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 5: it's gonna like it's totally gonna work for you, and 559 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 5: I hope that's so much for everybody. But I also 560 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 5: think that when we are talking to people about what 561 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 5: they're going through, particularly when there's a lot of grief involved, 562 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 5: to just say like, I see that you're doing this, 563 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 5: and I'm so sorry that this is happening for you, 564 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 5: and I hope that better days are ahead. 565 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 2: I love how Brene Brown talks about grief and not 566 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: looking away from someone's pain, like look them directly in 567 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: the eyes and sit in the pain with them. 568 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that's like, that's true for 569 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 5: so many kinds of grief. And I think that that 570 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 5: we sometimes don't think about grief as much in this 571 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 5: fertility space. But there is a real I mean, there 572 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 5: is real grief, particularly and an infertility and it's the same, 573 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 5: the same grief. That's the experience and loss, and you 574 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 5: know the kind of same way. Telling people, oh that 575 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 5: you know they're in a better place is not very helpful. Yeah, 576 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 5: saying you know, I'm sure it's gonna all work out 577 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 5: or worked out for my friend, you know, she did 578 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 5: fourteen rounds of IV aff like that. That's not helpful 579 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 5: to just say, you know, hey, like I see you 580 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 5: and I am sorry. 581 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: Emily. 582 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 3: For those who want to learn more, you have this 583 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 3: great weekly newsletter set up for anybody navigating fertility treatments 584 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 3: or family planning. Where can they subscribe and how can 585 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: they submit questions to parent Data? 586 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 5: So if you go to parent data dot org, we 587 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 5: have a section on trying to conceive and in that 588 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 5: section we have all of the content for the next 589 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 5: couple of months. It's all free, and there is a 590 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 5: newsletter of Lane there where you can sign up to 591 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 5: get the newsletter, and there's a question box where you 592 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 5: can ask your questions. 593 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 4: So Paradata dot org trying to conceive, that's your answer. 594 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 595 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you guys. This is awesome. 596 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much, Emily. 597 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 2: Emily Austur is an award winning economist, Professor of economics 598 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: at Brown University, and New York Times bestselling author. She's 599 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: also the founder and CEO of parent Data, a data 600 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: driven guide to pregnancy, parenting. 601 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: And beyond Tomorrow. 602 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: People Magazine Special Projects Director Andrea Labenthal is back. This 603 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: time she's giving us the scoop on spring trends. Join 604 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect with 605 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and 606 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh. And feel 607 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: free to tag us at Simone Voice and at Danielle Robe. 608 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 3: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 609 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 610 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.