WEBVTT - Clay sits down with author Chris Fenton 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:05.760 This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis, play talks 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.879 with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:21.479 Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in Wins and Losses podcast. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.000 Appreciade all of you listening. Encourage you to go back 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.560 and listen to the thirty some odd podcasts that we 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.360 have done. Long form conversation subjects that interests me in 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.720 the world of sports, business, politics, media, you name it. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:38.920 Basically a fascinating exploration of topics and ideas that maybe 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.040 we don't get a full length discussion for on the 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.360 daily radio show. I of course him Clay Travis, and 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.000 we're joined today by a guy that I'm fascinating to 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.040 talk with. His name is Chris Fenton, and he has 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.880 written a book called Feeding the Dragon, Inside the trillion 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:59.280 dollar Dilemma facing Hollywood, the NBA, and American business. You guys, 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.880 if you listen to this program regularly or listen to 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.760 read me, know that I have been sort of on 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.480 the forefront of the relationship between America and China and 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:10.919 why I see it as a new modern day Cold 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.560 War going forward, a battle over whose intellectual ideas and 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.080 property rights and everything else. Is going to dominate in 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.480 the twenty one century, and I think lots of Americans 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.440 have been caught flat footed on exactly what's going on 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.280 with China. And we bring in Chris Fenton now and 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.360 I said, he just wrote a book. But Chris, your background, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.840 you have a knowledge about this sort of entertainment culture 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.400 battle going on in sports and entertainment with China and 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.399 the United States based on what what's your background and 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.440 how did you end up doing what you did? Well, 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.600 that's a great question, and I covered some of it 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.280 early in the early stages of the book. But UM, 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.560 just a brief snapshot. First of all, thank you for 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.480 having me on the show. Secondly, UM, I grew up 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.720 in South Florida, big Miami Hurricane fan, UM, big fan 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:01.680 of pop culture. I'm years old, so I was sort 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.280 of at the perfect prime moment to UM engage with 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.640 pop culture both through my UM the MTV you know, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.280 music videos and the start of that network, and the 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.360 v the vhs and VCR tapes that Blockbuster got so 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.920 prolific at delivering UM and through that, I just really 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.799 over time was thinking, Hey, I want to get into 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.440 the cultural aspect of of the business community. How do 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.079 I do that. I ended up going to Cornell University 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.960 got an engineering degree there. UM, and uh, I was 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.360 sort of lost in There wasn't a lot of great 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.600 opportunities and it was a little bit of a downtick 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.960 in the economy, and I just hopped in my car 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.480 and drove across country um and slept on fraternity couches 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.280 of of five Gama Delta across the way. I think 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.360 I stopped in sixty three spots. UM. I actually was 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.040 a terrible football player for Cornell University, but I bonded 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.079 with Cornell or with football guys at different schools. I 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.639 actually crashed on a couch of University Nebraska's Fiji House 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.200 for a while, and they had a lot of football 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.560 guys there and I got to know them and and 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.480 over time, I eventually got um to Las Vegas, where 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.720 I thought I was going to plant my my, my, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.160 my roots because it was sort of a booming economy 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.680 at the time. And uh, a buddy of mine in 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.760 Los Angeles talked me into visiting for a weekend. I 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.440 ended up driving out just to visit him and never left. 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.280 I was just like, this is the greatest place on Earth. 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.840 It's beautiful at seventy two and sunny every day. The 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:33.400 girls are absolutely spectacular looked at and and it's the 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.720 center of pop culture. So what could be better. So 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.960 my very first job was as a waiter at the 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.000 Olive Garden um right off u C. L A's campus 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.360 in Westwood. It's not there anymore. I used to go 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.360 visit it every once in a while just to reminisce um. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.120 And then from there it led into a Hollywood career. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.040 So what did you okay? So you start waiting tables 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.600 in l A, which is honestly an l A story. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.640 A lot of people understand when you get out there, 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.520 even with a graduate I mean a degree from Cornell University. 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.080 So you work at the Olive Garden and then your 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.080 first job in the quote unquote entertainment industry is what 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.360 and how did you get that gig? Yeah, it's funny. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.720 I was waiting tables at the Olive Garden, which is UM, 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.880 as you know, not not the most high end psycholo restaurant, 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:18.880 but for me it was UM. I had a lot 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.719 of hospitaliano and I was waiting on two guys on 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.880 a double date. When was a guy named Chris Moore 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.720 who had just left UH an agency called I C 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.200 M and was producing a little movie that started a 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.880 guy that no one knew named Ben Affleck, and he said, hey, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.520 what are you planning on doing? I said, I have 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.240 no idea. He's like, well, you should get into the 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.200 Hollywood business. It's the Wall Street of the nineties. And 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.640 he invited me into this UH pick up basketball league 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.480 and and there I met a bunch of guys who 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.440 no one knew at the time. That was a huge agency. 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.760 Leaders Patrick White Sow and Ari Emmanuel of Ben Affleck. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.680 Matt came in. They're playing in the basketball league. All 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.440 of us were there, like we we all were short 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.000 of I mean, were a few years older, a generation 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.599 slightly ahead of me. But it was all just a 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:06.919 bunch of guys sort of trying to make it in 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.640 the entertainment business. I mean even White Soul, he was 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.040 a guy from Iowa. So um, A lot of this 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.960 just sort of transplanted there and we're like, okay, how 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.200 do we figure this out? And all right, so I'm 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.159 gonna I'm gonna cut you off here, but I gotta know, 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.280 how would you assess the respective basketball games who had 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.840 the best talent of the group that you played with. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.080 So you were talking about these young actors and these 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.320 young agents who people, if they're familiar with the larger 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.920 Hollywood universe, will know even if they don't know the 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.039 ones who aren't actors. But how would you break down McConaughey, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.640 Damon and uh And and Athleck as basketball players? And 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.000 how about the guys who were going to end up 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.839 being super powerful agents, how would you break down their ability? 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.560 I would say Patrick White soul was was a tremendously 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.279 skilled player. He played growing up and I think he 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:58.599 actually played in college a little bit. Ari was just tenacious, persistent, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.520 really difficult to get around, great defensive player. I would 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.240 say Matt Damon was probably one of the best athletes 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.000 I've seen as a as an actor. And by the way, 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.600 most actors get that reputation of not being athletic, he 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.839 was super athletic. Um Ben was actually a good player 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.880 on the inside. Actually, Um slightly twisted his ankle on 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.440 my playing defense against him, and I think I got 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.000 a lot of crap for that for a couple of 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.719 months afterwards. And then Chris Moore went on and produced 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:30.040 Um Goodwill, Hunting and The American Pie franchise, great power forward, 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.520 A big guy. Um. Some people might know him from 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.919 his work on Project green Light on HBO for for 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.840 several seasons. So this is pretty fascinating in and of itself. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.040 So you're playing in this basketball league, you're Cornell grad 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.799 and how does that lead to the first quote unquote gig. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.040 So you're working at the Olive Garden, you show up 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.799 out there, you start playing a basketball league with guys 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.520 who are young and starting to kind of make their 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.200 move but not really that well known at the time. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:01.000 And then what happens. Yeah, so then they then everybody said, hey, look, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:02.680 if you want to get in the business, well we'll 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.200 set up some meetings and um, but we can't promise anything. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.200 Everybody's sort of very self interested, but will obviously help 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.160 you out and give you advice. So I got a 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.400 bunch of meetings, but it didn't lead to anything. I 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.400 actually didn't really even know what I was doing in 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.520 these interviews. Um, you know, I talked about somebody I 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.360 want to run the world or whatever it was. It 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.520 was never about Hey, I want to do anything I 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.560 can for you. If that means delivering a stool sample 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.600 to your doctor, I'm happy to do that, which, by 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.280 the way, was something that mail room attendees had to 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.119 do with William Morris um. But I ended up getting 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.880 a temp job through a temp agency as a music 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.280 facts clerk at the William Morris Agency, which doesn't exist anymore. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.440 It got taken over by Endeavor, and I fact um 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.040 music contracts all day long for the Lights of the Eagles, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.280 Red Hot, Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etcetera. And I 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.840 would just read and study those contracts all day long. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.080 It was unbelievable. I mean you could see what the 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.920 riders were, and the riders are sort of the backstage 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.280 perks that these guys would have. I mean the Eagles 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.240 and the Health Freezes Overtour had backstage perks. So it's 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.840 cost sixty THO a show on the top of the 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.920 million they were getting guaranteed. So it was really interesting. 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:10.600 And then he saw it down in dirty guys like 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.400 Glenn dan Zing and the fact that he just wanted 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.120 three girls that lived within a twenty dollar cabs fair 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.040 of the venue, you know. So it was pretty eye opening. 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.280 And then over time I figured out who inside the 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.160 agency could lead me into the mecca, which was getting 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.840 into the William Morris mail room where I could get 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.720 promoted into the agent trainee status making a whopping three 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.600 dollars a week, and that's exactly what I did, so 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.920 you get into the agent. I'm kind of fascinated by 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.360 this too, because there's so many people. Hollywood agency is 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.720 very much of a meritocracy, right and for people out 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:44.679 there who are listening to us right now and think, oh, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.920 I'm somewhat interested in the agent business as it pertains 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.800 to Hollywood. What is a job in the mail room entail? Yeah, 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.520 a job in the mail room is essentially Mr Miyagi 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.080 um watching over you. And we had a guy named 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:02.120 Marv ALBERTI was the mail room, the career mail room 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.920 guy who led all these young trainees. And it was 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:09.720 trainees that were essentially Steven Spielberg's nephew or David Geffen's 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.079 you know, uh, you know, best friend's son or whatever 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.079 it was. And then there were all kinds of crazy 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.120 sort of Harvard law grads and everything else in there. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.640 And our job was essentially the deliver mail throughout the agency, 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.720 so we would learn what every department was doing, whether 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.160 it was commercials or TV syndication, cable or the movie 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.720 business or television or at the time we were dabbling 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.800 because we were representing um sort of some sports stars 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.600 in various aspects. So we had that, and we had 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.120 the music department, and over time you got promoted into 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.719 what they called dispatch, and that's where you learned how 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:47.640 the whole town work because you had to deliver packages 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.440 and scripts and so on all over Los Angeles. You 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.800 learned where Warner Brothers was in Paramount and Sony, and 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.680 you learned where Quentin Tarantino lived and where you know, 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.559 Russell Crowe lived and everybody else. So it was really 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.800 interest sing because during that time you never understood why 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.360 they had you do that, but it was essentially the 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.240 wax on wax off method of Hollywood training, and over 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.559 time you just sort of absorbed a lot of how 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.120 the business operated. Okay, and so where does that lead? 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:16.400 You start in the mail room and by the way, 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.040 you kind of dropped it in there. But there are 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.200 literally guys or girls who would graduate from Harvard Law 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.120 School so desperately want to get into the entertainment business 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.520 that they would take these three hundred dollar a week 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.640 jobs in the mail room to try to work their 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.959 way up. Yeah, essentially the ones that ended up getting through, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.959 and I was I was very lucky because I had 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.480 uh A president of the company, a guy named Jerry 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.960 Katzman saw me walk into his office one day and 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.160 asked me, what shoot is that that you're wearing? And 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.680 I said, oh, you like it? And he's like, where 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:49.640 is it made? And I said, oh, I don't know. 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:53.199 And I opened up the the inside and I said, oh, Yugoslavia. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.600 And he's like, where would you buy a Yugoslavia in shirt? 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.520 And hear a suit and I said, well, it's up 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.719 on Hollywood and bind you know that store. He's like, 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.840 what I cost you? It's like, I think thirty three 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:06.000 bucks because they got three. And he's like, I'm hiring 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.600 you as my morning assistant. And he took a liking 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.240 to me because I was a guy that completely was 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.040 unprivileged and just wanted to get promoted as quickly as possible. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.560 And those were the people that when the men and 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.880 women that ultimately made it through those Harvard Law people, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.200 they decided, hey, you know what, I gotta go on 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.280 and do something better. The nepotism sort of people were 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.640 just not motivated enough to get through the system. So 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.400 we all got through and I became an agent at 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.400 twenty four and um, you know, I was making seven 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.440 fifty dollars a week, but they said, hey, it's seven 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:40.679 fifty dollars a week plus all you could eat, so 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.560 um that made you had an unlimited expense account. And 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.199 I think in my first year I spent something like 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.520 a hundred and twenty five thousand bucks on my am 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.640 x UM on top of the thirty thousand or whatever 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.480 I was making a year, So people thought it was 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.000 a millionaire at the time, but I was literally making zero. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.120 All right, So what does a young agent's job at 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.080 that point in time consist of? In uh, in l 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.720 A and who would you represent? What kind of clients 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.160 would you have? Well, at the very beginning, you're doing 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.760 really the grunt work, so UM I would cover shows 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.840 like uh, the Tonight Show and have to, you know, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.560 make sure Arnold Schwarzenegger has everything he needed backstage two 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.840 UM new shows that we were launching, like Ricky Lake 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.199 or the Danny Bonaducci Show, crazy things like that. UM 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.520 Old agents would give me clients that were completely unhirable, 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.680 like one of the first director clients I had his 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.960 last credit was a leave at the Beaver episode from 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.200 like thirty years ago. So it was crazy stuff like that. 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.199 But then over time you started to sign your own clients, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.000 and I got really lucky. I came across a young 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.600 guy named Michael mcculler's who was working on the MTV 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.360 Movie Awards, with a young actor named Mike Myers, and 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.679 they wrote a script called Austin Powers and the next 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.319 thing I know, I saw it the New Line and 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.720 it becomes a huge hit. And then I came across 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.400 this young author and a guy that was in the 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.400 music business who was David Being and Brian Coppelman, and 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.480 they wrote this fantastic script called Rounders, and we went 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.880 out and sold that. So that's sort of how the 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.240 weird part of Hollywood works. It's not necessarily a cream 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.720 rises to the top business. It's a lot based on luck, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.720 but it's a lot based on perseverance and persistence, just 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.480 like you built your career. So Rounders say, Yeah, everybody, 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.640 I bet almost has has watched that movie at some 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.280 point in time, what made you think, oh, this could 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.800 be something? Well, I wasn't sure of that. I actually 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.920 read the script and I thought, this is an amazing story, 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:38.760 but it's not practical or realistic, Like this world doesn't exist. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.000 And Brian and David were like, oh, definitely it does. 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.640 Let's show you. And they would drive us around to 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.360 like places in Commerce or Hollywood Park, which I didn't 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.880 realize had like a underground poker facility, all these different things, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:56.240 and you saw this like underground world of people and 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.920 characters and rich and poor sort of battling against each 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.600 or in these poker parlors. And I had no idea 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.199 it existed, nor did most people. Like that was way 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.880 before the poker craze. And and quite frankly, I would 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.400 say that that script and the cast that was put 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.240 together and the way that was directed, it was Mirrormax 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:14.839 at the time that really brought it to life and 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.640 made it successful. That really kicked off the poker craze. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.000 It really did kind of take off in a huge way. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.200 And you guys were a part of that. So that 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.480 movie happens, and then what so you're learning now. I 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:27.960 don't know if you've listened to the Winds and Lost 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.520 his podcast before, but I'm always interested in how do 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.920 you get from one place to another? Because everyone's story 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.480 is so much different. So you're a young agent, you 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.200 got this huge expense account, you got a successful story 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:44.000 with Rounders. What then happens? How does it go from there? Yeah, 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.400 so then it's in And I walked through the book. 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.240 It's really a Jerry mcquied story in a lot of ways. Um, 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.920 I had a lot of big players that were big 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:53.960 fans of mine. But like you said, it's a bit 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.280 of a meritocracy. So I had one particular boss that 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.000 had it out for me. We actually lost a client 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.920 um to a competing agency, and he pinned it on me, 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.840 and I tried to fight back, and ultimately one day 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.720 I called into an office and I write very openly 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.720 about it in the book. It was a terrible moment 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.560 um and and they said, hey, we gotta let you go, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.320 And I said, are you kidding me? And they're like, yep, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.400 but you know, we won't tell anybody. It's all good. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.280 And the problem with Hollywood is when you get fired, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.200 the rest of the town already knew for hours before. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.600 So I remember walking out of that room and seeing 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:31.600 everybody passed me in the hall, and I could just 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.040 tell they all knew exactly what happened. It was the 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.600 worst day, and I literally walked into my office. Um 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.560 there was a guy Will Lowry, who actually lives in Nashville, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.400 tennesseee right now works for Endeavor. He was my assistant. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.360 I said, hey, by the way, just pack up my 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.720 stuff bringing outside. I'm leaving. I'm not coming back. And 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.200 I walked out and I literally felt like Jerry McGuire 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.440 with a gold fish in my bag. Even Will was like, hey, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.640 I gotta stay here. I need the job. I was like, dude, 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.960 don't worry about it. I'll be fine. And I walked 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.960 home and I was just, uh, just devastated. I was 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.400 twenty nine years old, and I literally was. I felt 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.440 like Jerry McGuire At the time. I was very much 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.440 on the rise at that company. So it hit me 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.160 like a ton of bricks. And when you know, when 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.080 something like that hits you, you just don't know how 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.000 to react right away, and you get really miserable about it. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.560 So immediately, obviously I started to hit the phones and 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.320 try to get clients on board. My now wife was 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.000 sort of cracking a whip on me right, making sure 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.480 that like I got my ship together and stopped moping around, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.680 and uh, you know, I would talk to clients and 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.600 they would be like, okay, maybe I don't know. But 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.600 then ultimately they didn't come. And the one sort of 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.000 rod Tidwell that decided to go with me into whatever 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.240 venture I had decided to do by myself with this 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.040 little Chinese production company that I had signed on a 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.480 whim because they did this little movie that I thought 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.440 was very interesting. And they said, hey, no one's called 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.080 us from William Morris. We'll go with you. Just you 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.240 our eyes and the years in North American. Let's figure 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.600 something out. So I hopped on a head over to 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.040 China and it was unbelievable. I looked around. I said, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.240 there is opportunity in this place, like count me in. 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:13.800 So you flew to China? What year is this? When 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.879 you're twenty nine years old? You lose your job at 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:17.880 William Morris. By the way, can you tell us who 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.080 the who the client was that you lost? That was 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.680 such a big deal. Yeah, he's he's actually a friend 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.040 of mine now, so I'm fine saying it. But it 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.560 was Jerry O'Connell, who, believe it or not, played Cush 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:33.480 and Jerry maguire. Uh, yeah, it was, you know, I mean, 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.959 look everybody's in you know, everybody's going to do what 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.000 they gotta do, and he thought he actually left for 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.240 Patrick Whitchel, which was even crazy here, and Patrick was 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.320 at C A A at the time, So it was 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.840 it really hurt and it really wasn't my fault, but 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.359 the fault got put on me, and ultimately the senior 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.640 agent one out over me and I got thrown out 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.680 on the streets. So, by the way, yeah, Jerry was 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.480 hot there. What's it like to be an agent and 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.560 constantly live in fear that you might get a call 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.680 from a client and they're saying, hey, you know, I'm 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.160 going somewhere else. Is that something I imagine now it's 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.199 even more stressful because people have got phones, and I 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.120 think they probably make even more rash decisions. I would 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.479 just say in general, because you know, we don't have that, uh, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.879 that that sort of governor on us. Certainly, you can 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.000 look at the way people use Twitter now and I 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.879 would imagine the agency job has gotten even tougher. But 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.679 also it's easier to reach out to somebody, right if 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.600 somebody else is trying to poach away a client. What's 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.359 that feeling like? Do you always just kind of have 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:39.080 a dull apprehension in your stomach associated with being an agent. Well, 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.480 you gotta realize that it's so difficult and you're you're 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.240 in the same kind of business, so you know this. 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.640 I mean the amount of rejection that anybody on the 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.200 talent side of the business, whether you're running shows for 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.480 Fox Sports or your own podcasts, or you're a movie 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.879 star or director or whatever, the amount of rejection you 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.520 face on a daily basis is like, of everything you do, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.359 of that one percent is the goal that you always 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.080 have in mind. But that creates a lot of insecurity. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.680 So when you're an agent trying to grab somebody from 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.560 another agency, all you gotta do is to play into 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:17.200 that and say, hey, you're getting all that rejection because 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.399 you have the wrong agent, Whereas the agent that reps 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.600 that person has to play into the one percent and say, hey, 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.440 you have this one percent because I'm working really hard. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.600 So it stats the deck in regards to being able 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.600 to steal clients from other agents, and it's why most 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.120 of the town works in fear all the time, which 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.320 quite frankly plays into the China conversation. Be sure to 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.320 catch live editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.640 week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. We're 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.720 talking to Chris Fenton and uh, I'm just kind of 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.200 fascinated by all this. Okay, you got and this is 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.600 wins and losses. I'm Clay Travis. Appreciate all of you 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.879 listening along with us. Encourage you to go listen to 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.119 all of our long form conversations here. Okay, you arrive 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.879 in China. I'm assuming that was your first trip to China. 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.320 What year is it and what do you see on 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.159