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Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis, play talks

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Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in Wins and Losses podcast.

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Speaker 1: Appreciade all of you listening. Encourage you to go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to the thirty some odd podcasts that we

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Speaker 1: have done. Long form conversation subjects that interests me in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports, business, politics, media, you name it.

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Speaker 1: Basically a fascinating exploration of topics and ideas that maybe

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Speaker 1: we don't get a full length discussion for on the

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Speaker 1: daily radio show. I of course him Clay Travis, and

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Speaker 1: we're joined today by a guy that I'm fascinating to

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Speaker 1: talk with. His name is Chris Fenton, and he has

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Speaker 1: written a book called Feeding the Dragon, Inside the trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar Dilemma facing Hollywood, the NBA, and American business. You guys,

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Speaker 1: if you listen to this program regularly or listen to

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Speaker 1: read me, know that I have been sort of on

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Speaker 1: the forefront of the relationship between America and China and

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Speaker 1: why I see it as a new modern day Cold

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Speaker 1: War going forward, a battle over whose intellectual ideas and

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Speaker 1: property rights and everything else. Is going to dominate in

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Speaker 1: the twenty one century, and I think lots of Americans

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Speaker 1: have been caught flat footed on exactly what's going on

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Speaker 1: with China. And we bring in Chris Fenton now and

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Speaker 1: I said, he just wrote a book. But Chris, your background,

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Speaker 1: you have a knowledge about this sort of entertainment culture

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Speaker 1: battle going on in sports and entertainment with China and

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Speaker 1: the United States based on what what's your background and

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Speaker 1: how did you end up doing what you did? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question, and I covered some of it

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Speaker 1: early in the early stages of the book. But UM,

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Speaker 1: just a brief snapshot. First of all, thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me on the show. Secondly, UM, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in South Florida, big Miami Hurricane fan, UM, big fan

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Speaker 1: of pop culture. I'm years old, so I was sort

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Speaker 1: of at the perfect prime moment to UM engage with

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Speaker 1: pop culture both through my UM the MTV you know,

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Speaker 1: music videos and the start of that network, and the

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Speaker 1: v the vhs and VCR tapes that Blockbuster got so

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Speaker 1: prolific at delivering UM and through that, I just really

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Speaker 1: over time was thinking, Hey, I want to get into

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Speaker 1: the cultural aspect of of the business community. How do

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Speaker 1: I do that. I ended up going to Cornell University

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Speaker 1: got an engineering degree there. UM, and uh, I was

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Speaker 1: sort of lost in There wasn't a lot of great

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Speaker 1: opportunities and it was a little bit of a downtick

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Speaker 1: in the economy, and I just hopped in my car

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Speaker 1: and drove across country um and slept on fraternity couches

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Speaker 1: of of five Gama Delta across the way. I think

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Speaker 1: I stopped in sixty three spots. UM. I actually was

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Speaker 1: a terrible football player for Cornell University, but I bonded

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Speaker 1: with Cornell or with football guys at different schools. I

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Speaker 1: actually crashed on a couch of University Nebraska's Fiji House

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Speaker 1: for a while, and they had a lot of football

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Speaker 1: guys there and I got to know them and and

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Speaker 1: over time, I eventually got um to Las Vegas, where

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Speaker 1: I thought I was going to plant my my, my,

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Speaker 1: my roots because it was sort of a booming economy

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Speaker 1: at the time. And uh, a buddy of mine in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles talked me into visiting for a weekend. I

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Speaker 1: ended up driving out just to visit him and never left.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, this is the greatest place on Earth.

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Speaker 1: It's beautiful at seventy two and sunny every day. The

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Speaker 1: girls are absolutely spectacular looked at and and it's the

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Speaker 1: center of pop culture. So what could be better. So

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Speaker 1: my very first job was as a waiter at the

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Speaker 1: Olive Garden um right off u C. L A's campus

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Speaker 1: in Westwood. It's not there anymore. I used to go

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Speaker 1: visit it every once in a while just to reminisce um.

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Speaker 1: And then from there it led into a Hollywood career.

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Speaker 1: So what did you okay? So you start waiting tables

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Speaker 1: in l A, which is honestly an l A story.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people understand when you get out there,

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Speaker 1: even with a graduate I mean a degree from Cornell University.

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Speaker 1: So you work at the Olive Garden and then your

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Speaker 1: first job in the quote unquote entertainment industry is what

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Speaker 1: and how did you get that gig? Yeah, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I was waiting tables at the Olive Garden, which is UM,

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Speaker 1: as you know, not not the most high end psycholo restaurant,

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Speaker 1: but for me it was UM. I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of hospitaliano and I was waiting on two guys on

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Speaker 1: a double date. When was a guy named Chris Moore

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Speaker 1: who had just left UH an agency called I C

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Speaker 1: M and was producing a little movie that started a

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Speaker 1: guy that no one knew named Ben Affleck, and he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: what are you planning on doing? I said, I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. He's like, well, you should get into the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood business. It's the Wall Street of the nineties. And

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Speaker 1: he invited me into this UH pick up basketball league

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Speaker 1: and and there I met a bunch of guys who

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Speaker 1: no one knew at the time. That was a huge agency.

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Speaker 1: Leaders Patrick White Sow and Ari Emmanuel of Ben Affleck.

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Speaker 1: Matt came in. They're playing in the basketball league. All

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Speaker 1: of us were there, like we we all were short

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Speaker 1: of I mean, were a few years older, a generation

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Speaker 1: slightly ahead of me. But it was all just a

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Speaker 1: bunch of guys sort of trying to make it in

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Speaker 1: the entertainment business. I mean even White Soul, he was

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Speaker 1: a guy from Iowa. So um, A lot of this

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Speaker 1: just sort of transplanted there and we're like, okay, how

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Speaker 1: do we figure this out? And all right, so I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna cut you off here, but I gotta know,

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Speaker 1: how would you assess the respective basketball games who had

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Speaker 1: the best talent of the group that you played with.

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Speaker 1: So you were talking about these young actors and these

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Speaker 1: young agents who people, if they're familiar with the larger

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Speaker 1: Hollywood universe, will know even if they don't know the

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Speaker 1: ones who aren't actors. But how would you break down McConaughey,

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Speaker 1: Damon and uh And and Athleck as basketball players? And

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Speaker 1: how about the guys who were going to end up

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Speaker 1: being super powerful agents, how would you break down their ability?

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Speaker 1: I would say Patrick White soul was was a tremendously

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Speaker 1: skilled player. He played growing up and I think he

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Speaker 1: actually played in college a little bit. Ari was just tenacious, persistent,

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Speaker 1: really difficult to get around, great defensive player. I would

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Speaker 1: say Matt Damon was probably one of the best athletes

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Speaker 1: I've seen as a as an actor. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: most actors get that reputation of not being athletic, he

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Speaker 1: was super athletic. Um Ben was actually a good player

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Speaker 1: on the inside. Actually, Um slightly twisted his ankle on

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Speaker 1: my playing defense against him, and I think I got

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Speaker 1: a lot of crap for that for a couple of

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Speaker 1: months afterwards. And then Chris Moore went on and produced

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Speaker 1: Um Goodwill, Hunting and The American Pie franchise, great power forward,

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Speaker 1: A big guy. Um. Some people might know him from

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Speaker 1: his work on Project green Light on HBO for for

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Speaker 1: several seasons. So this is pretty fascinating in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: So you're playing in this basketball league, you're Cornell grad

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Speaker 1: and how does that lead to the first quote unquote gig.

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Speaker 1: So you're working at the Olive Garden, you show up

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Speaker 1: out there, you start playing a basketball league with guys

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Speaker 1: who are young and starting to kind of make their

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Speaker 1: move but not really that well known at the time.

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Speaker 1: And then what happens. Yeah, so then they then everybody said, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: if you want to get in the business, well we'll

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Speaker 1: set up some meetings and um, but we can't promise anything.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's sort of very self interested, but will obviously help

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Speaker 1: you out and give you advice. So I got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of meetings, but it didn't lead to anything. I

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Speaker 1: actually didn't really even know what I was doing in

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Speaker 1: these interviews. Um, you know, I talked about somebody I

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Speaker 1: want to run the world or whatever it was. It

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Speaker 1: was never about Hey, I want to do anything I

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Speaker 1: can for you. If that means delivering a stool sample

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Speaker 1: to your doctor, I'm happy to do that, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, was something that mail room attendees had to

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Speaker 1: do with William Morris um. But I ended up getting

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Speaker 1: a temp job through a temp agency as a music

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Speaker 1: facts clerk at the William Morris Agency, which doesn't exist anymore.

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Speaker 1: It got taken over by Endeavor, and I fact um

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Speaker 1: music contracts all day long for the Lights of the Eagles,

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Speaker 1: Red Hot, Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etcetera. And I

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Speaker 1: would just read and study those contracts all day long.

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Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. I mean you could see what the

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Speaker 1: riders were, and the riders are sort of the backstage

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Speaker 1: perks that these guys would have. I mean the Eagles

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Speaker 1: and the Health Freezes Overtour had backstage perks. So it's

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Speaker 1: cost sixty THO a show on the top of the

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Speaker 1: million they were getting guaranteed. So it was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: And then he saw it down in dirty guys like

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Speaker 1: Glenn dan Zing and the fact that he just wanted

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Speaker 1: three girls that lived within a twenty dollar cabs fair

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Speaker 1: of the venue, you know. So it was pretty eye opening.

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Speaker 1: And then over time I figured out who inside the

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Speaker 1: agency could lead me into the mecca, which was getting

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Speaker 1: into the William Morris mail room where I could get

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Speaker 1: promoted into the agent trainee status making a whopping three

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Speaker 1: dollars a week, and that's exactly what I did, so

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Speaker 1: you get into the agent. I'm kind of fascinated by

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Speaker 1: this too, because there's so many people. Hollywood agency is

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Speaker 1: very much of a meritocracy, right and for people out

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Speaker 1: there who are listening to us right now and think, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm somewhat interested in the agent business as it pertains

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Speaker 1: to Hollywood. What is a job in the mail room entail? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a job in the mail room is essentially Mr Miyagi

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Speaker 1: um watching over you. And we had a guy named

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Speaker 1: Marv ALBERTI was the mail room, the career mail room

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Speaker 1: guy who led all these young trainees. And it was

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Speaker 1: trainees that were essentially Steven Spielberg's nephew or David Geffen's

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, best friend's son or whatever

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Speaker 1: it was. And then there were all kinds of crazy

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Speaker 1: sort of Harvard law grads and everything else in there.

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Speaker 1: And our job was essentially the deliver mail throughout the agency,

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Speaker 1: so we would learn what every department was doing, whether

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Speaker 1: it was commercials or TV syndication, cable or the movie

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Speaker 1: business or television or at the time we were dabbling

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Speaker 1: because we were representing um sort of some sports stars

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Speaker 1: in various aspects. So we had that, and we had

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Speaker 1: the music department, and over time you got promoted into

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Speaker 1: what they called dispatch, and that's where you learned how

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Speaker 1: the whole town work because you had to deliver packages

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Speaker 1: and scripts and so on all over Los Angeles. You

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Speaker 1: learned where Warner Brothers was in Paramount and Sony, and

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Speaker 1: you learned where Quentin Tarantino lived and where you know,

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Speaker 1: Russell Crowe lived and everybody else. So it was really

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Speaker 1: interest sing because during that time you never understood why

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Speaker 1: they had you do that, but it was essentially the

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Speaker 1: wax on wax off method of Hollywood training, and over

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Speaker 1: time you just sort of absorbed a lot of how

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Speaker 1: the business operated. Okay, and so where does that lead?

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Speaker 1: You start in the mail room and by the way,

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Speaker 1: you kind of dropped it in there. But there are

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Speaker 1: literally guys or girls who would graduate from Harvard Law

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Speaker 1: School so desperately want to get into the entertainment business

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Speaker 1: that they would take these three hundred dollar a week

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Speaker 1: jobs in the mail room to try to work their

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Speaker 1: way up. Yeah, essentially the ones that ended up getting through,

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Speaker 1: and I was I was very lucky because I had

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Speaker 1: uh A president of the company, a guy named Jerry

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Speaker 1: Katzman saw me walk into his office one day and

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Speaker 1: asked me, what shoot is that that you're wearing? And

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Speaker 1: I said, oh, you like it? And he's like, where

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Speaker 1: is it made? And I said, oh, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And I opened up the the inside and I said, oh, Yugoslavia.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, where would you buy a Yugoslavia in shirt?

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Speaker 1: And hear a suit and I said, well, it's up

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Speaker 1: on Hollywood and bind you know that store. He's like,

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Speaker 1: what I cost you? It's like, I think thirty three

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Speaker 1: bucks because they got three. And he's like, I'm hiring

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Speaker 1: you as my morning assistant. And he took a liking

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Speaker 1: to me because I was a guy that completely was

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Speaker 1: unprivileged and just wanted to get promoted as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 1: And those were the people that when the men and

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Speaker 1: women that ultimately made it through those Harvard Law people,

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Speaker 1: they decided, hey, you know what, I gotta go on

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Speaker 1: and do something better. The nepotism sort of people were

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Speaker 1: just not motivated enough to get through the system. So

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Speaker 1: we all got through and I became an agent at

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Speaker 1: twenty four and um, you know, I was making seven

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars a week, but they said, hey, it's seven

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars a week plus all you could eat, so

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Speaker 1: um that made you had an unlimited expense account. And

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Speaker 1: I think in my first year I spent something like

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five thousand bucks on my am

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Speaker 1: x UM on top of the thirty thousand or whatever

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Speaker 1: I was making a year, So people thought it was

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Speaker 1: a millionaire at the time, but I was literally making zero.

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Speaker 1: All right, So what does a young agent's job at

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Speaker 1: that point in time consist of? In uh, in l

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Speaker 1: A and who would you represent? What kind of clients

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Speaker 1: would you have? Well, at the very beginning, you're doing

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Speaker 1: really the grunt work, so UM I would cover shows

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Speaker 1: like uh, the Tonight Show and have to, you know,

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Speaker 1: make sure Arnold Schwarzenegger has everything he needed backstage two

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Speaker 1: UM new shows that we were launching, like Ricky Lake

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Speaker 1: or the Danny Bonaducci Show, crazy things like that. UM

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Speaker 1: Old agents would give me clients that were completely unhirable,

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Speaker 1: like one of the first director clients I had his

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Speaker 1: last credit was a leave at the Beaver episode from

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Speaker 1: like thirty years ago. So it was crazy stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But then over time you started to sign your own clients,

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Speaker 1: and I got really lucky. I came across a young

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Speaker 1: guy named Michael mcculler's who was working on the MTV

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Speaker 1: Movie Awards, with a young actor named Mike Myers, and

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Speaker 1: they wrote a script called Austin Powers and the next

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Speaker 1: thing I know, I saw it the New Line and

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Speaker 1: it becomes a huge hit. And then I came across

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Speaker 1: this young author and a guy that was in the

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Speaker 1: music business who was David Being and Brian Coppelman, and

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Speaker 1: they wrote this fantastic script called Rounders, and we went

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Speaker 1: out and sold that. So that's sort of how the

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Speaker 1: weird part of Hollywood works. It's not necessarily a cream

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Speaker 1: rises to the top business. It's a lot based on luck,

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Speaker 1: but it's a lot based on perseverance and persistence, just

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Speaker 1: like you built your career. So Rounders say, Yeah, everybody,

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Speaker 1: I bet almost has has watched that movie at some

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Speaker 1: point in time, what made you think, oh, this could

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Speaker 1: be something? Well, I wasn't sure of that. I actually

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Speaker 1: read the script and I thought, this is an amazing story,

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Speaker 1: but it's not practical or realistic, Like this world doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: And Brian and David were like, oh, definitely it does.

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Speaker 1: Let's show you. And they would drive us around to

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Speaker 1: like places in Commerce or Hollywood Park, which I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize had like a underground poker facility, all these different things,

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Speaker 1: and you saw this like underground world of people and

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Speaker 1: characters and rich and poor sort of battling against each

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Speaker 1: or in these poker parlors. And I had no idea

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Speaker 1: it existed, nor did most people. Like that was way

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Speaker 1: before the poker craze. And and quite frankly, I would

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Speaker 1: say that that script and the cast that was put

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Speaker 1: together and the way that was directed, it was Mirrormax

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Speaker 1: at the time that really brought it to life and

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Speaker 1: made it successful. That really kicked off the poker craze.

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Speaker 1: It really did kind of take off in a huge way.

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Speaker 1: And you guys were a part of that. So that

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Speaker 1: movie happens, and then what so you're learning now. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've listened to the Winds and Lost

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Speaker 1: his podcast before, but I'm always interested in how do

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Speaker 1: you get from one place to another? Because everyone's story

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Speaker 1: is so much different. So you're a young agent, you

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Speaker 1: got this huge expense account, you got a successful story

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Speaker 1: with Rounders. What then happens? How does it go from there? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so then it's in And I walked through the book.

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Speaker 1: It's really a Jerry mcquied story in a lot of ways. Um,

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of big players that were big

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Speaker 1: fans of mine. But like you said, it's a bit

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Speaker 1: of a meritocracy. So I had one particular boss that

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Speaker 1: had it out for me. We actually lost a client

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Speaker 1: um to a competing agency, and he pinned it on me,

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Speaker 1: and I tried to fight back, and ultimately one day

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Speaker 1: I called into an office and I write very openly

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Speaker 1: about it in the book. It was a terrible moment

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Speaker 1: um and and they said, hey, we gotta let you go,

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Speaker 1: And I said, are you kidding me? And they're like, yep,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we won't tell anybody. It's all good.

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Speaker 1: And the problem with Hollywood is when you get fired,

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Speaker 1: the rest of the town already knew for hours before.

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Speaker 1: So I remember walking out of that room and seeing

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Speaker 1: everybody passed me in the hall, and I could just

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Speaker 1: tell they all knew exactly what happened. It was the

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Speaker 1: worst day, and I literally walked into my office. Um

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Speaker 1: there was a guy Will Lowry, who actually lives in Nashville,

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Speaker 1: tennesseee right now works for Endeavor. He was my assistant.

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Speaker 1: I said, hey, by the way, just pack up my

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Speaker 1: stuff bringing outside. I'm leaving. I'm not coming back. And

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Speaker 1: I walked out and I literally felt like Jerry McGuire

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Speaker 1: with a gold fish in my bag. Even Will was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I gotta stay here. I need the job. I was like, dude,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about it. I'll be fine. And I walked

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Speaker 1: home and I was just, uh, just devastated. I was

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Speaker 1: twenty nine years old, and I literally was. I felt

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Speaker 1: like Jerry McGuire At the time. I was very much

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Speaker 1: on the rise at that company. So it hit me

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Speaker 1: like a ton of bricks. And when you know, when

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Speaker 1: something like that hits you, you just don't know how

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Speaker 1: to react right away, and you get really miserable about it.

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Speaker 1: So immediately, obviously I started to hit the phones and

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Speaker 1: try to get clients on board. My now wife was

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Speaker 1: sort of cracking a whip on me right, making sure

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Speaker 1: that like I got my ship together and stopped moping around,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I would talk to clients and

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Speaker 1: they would be like, okay, maybe I don't know. But

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Speaker 1: then ultimately they didn't come. And the one sort of

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Speaker 1: rod Tidwell that decided to go with me into whatever

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Speaker 1: venture I had decided to do by myself with this

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Speaker 1: little Chinese production company that I had signed on a

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Speaker 1: whim because they did this little movie that I thought

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Speaker 1: was very interesting. And they said, hey, no one's called

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Speaker 1: us from William Morris. We'll go with you. Just you

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Speaker 1: our eyes and the years in North American. Let's figure

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Speaker 1: something out. So I hopped on a head over to

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Speaker 1: China and it was unbelievable. I looked around. I said,

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Speaker 1: there is opportunity in this place, like count me in.

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Speaker 1: So you flew to China? What year is this? When

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Speaker 1: you're twenty nine years old? You lose your job at

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Speaker 1: William Morris. By the way, can you tell us who

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Speaker 1: the who the client was that you lost? That was

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Speaker 1: such a big deal. Yeah, he's he's actually a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine now, so I'm fine saying it. But it

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Speaker 1: was Jerry O'Connell, who, believe it or not, played Cush

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Speaker 1: and Jerry maguire. Uh, yeah, it was, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: look everybody's in you know, everybody's going to do what

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Speaker 1: they gotta do, and he thought he actually left for

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Speaker 1: Patrick Whitchel, which was even crazy here, and Patrick was

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Speaker 1: at C A A at the time, So it was

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Speaker 1: it really hurt and it really wasn't my fault, but

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Speaker 1: the fault got put on me, and ultimately the senior

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Speaker 1: agent one out over me and I got thrown out

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Speaker 1: on the streets. So, by the way, yeah, Jerry was

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Speaker 1: hot there. What's it like to be an agent and

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Speaker 1: constantly live in fear that you might get a call

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Speaker 1: from a client and they're saying, hey, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going somewhere else. Is that something I imagine now it's

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Speaker 1: even more stressful because people have got phones, and I

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Speaker 1: think they probably make even more rash decisions. I would

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Speaker 1: just say in general, because you know, we don't have that, uh,

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Speaker 1: that that sort of governor on us. Certainly, you can

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Speaker 1: look at the way people use Twitter now and I

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Speaker 1: would imagine the agency job has gotten even tougher. But

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Speaker 1: also it's easier to reach out to somebody, right if

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Speaker 1: somebody else is trying to poach away a client. What's

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Speaker 1: that feeling like? Do you always just kind of have

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Speaker 1: a dull apprehension in your stomach associated with being an agent. Well,

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Speaker 1: you gotta realize that it's so difficult and you're you're

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Speaker 1: in the same kind of business, so you know this.

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Speaker 1: I mean the amount of rejection that anybody on the

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Speaker 1: talent side of the business, whether you're running shows for

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports or your own podcasts, or you're a movie

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Speaker 1: star or director or whatever, the amount of rejection you

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Speaker 1: face on a daily basis is like, of everything you do,

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Speaker 1: of that one percent is the goal that you always

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Speaker 1: have in mind. But that creates a lot of insecurity.

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Speaker 1: So when you're an agent trying to grab somebody from

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Speaker 1: another agency, all you gotta do is to play into

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Speaker 1: that and say, hey, you're getting all that rejection because

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Speaker 1: you have the wrong agent, Whereas the agent that reps

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Speaker 1: that person has to play into the one percent and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you have this one percent because I'm working really hard.

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Speaker 1: So it stats the deck in regards to being able

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Speaker 1: to steal clients from other agents, and it's why most

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Speaker 1: of the town works in fear all the time, which

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Speaker 1: quite frankly plays into the China conversation. Be sure to

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Speaker 1: catch live editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis

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Speaker 1: week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. We're

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Speaker 1: talking to Chris Fenton and uh, I'm just kind of

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Speaker 1: fascinated by all this. Okay, you got and this is

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Speaker 1: wins and losses. I'm Clay Travis. Appreciate all of you

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Speaker 1: listening along with us. Encourage you to go listen to

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Speaker 1: all of our long form conversations here. Okay, you arrive

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Speaker 1: in China. I'm assuming that was your first trip to China.

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Speaker 1: What year is it and what do you see on

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Speaker 1: the ground when you arrive in the country for the

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Speaker 1: first time. Yeah, So the first time I started working

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Speaker 1: with the Chinese was around two thousand I set foot

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Speaker 1: in the market around I think it was two thousand four,

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Speaker 1: was the first time I got over there. Um, and

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Speaker 1: then I went regularly ever since. UM And at the

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Speaker 1: time it was interesting I even write about in the book.

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Speaker 1: They had an operation there that was in Beijing that

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Speaker 1: one night, in the middle of the night, bulldozers came

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Speaker 1: in and cut their building in half. So when I

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Speaker 1: went and visited their office in Beijing, the back half

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Speaker 1: of their their their building had to tarp over it

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Speaker 1: to keep it from the outside elements because literally it

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Speaker 1: was in two zoning areas of Beijing, and that was

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Speaker 1: a perfect example of what was happening in China at

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Speaker 1: the time. They called it the National Bird, was the

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Speaker 1: construction crane, and they were everywhere. So when you got there,

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Speaker 1: you literally looked around and said, Holy how the opportunities

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Speaker 1: are endless here. The world is your oyster. And you

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Speaker 1: got to realize, like I was a guy living with

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Speaker 1: four other guys. I'm the hot you know, up in

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Speaker 1: the Sunset off the Sunset Strip in the Hollywood Hills.

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Speaker 1: We have parties with many, Me and Matt Damon and

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Speaker 1: even Monica which would come over. It was crazy. And

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Speaker 1: now suddenly I got thrust into China almost like Michael

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Speaker 1: Keaton and Gung Ho or something. It was just weird, surreal,

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Speaker 1: but that was all I had. Did you speak Chinese

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Speaker 1: at all? I didn't know, not at all, And even

429
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: to this day I speak a little bit, but I

430
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: can sing a bunch of songs and Mandarin, which is

431
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: very helpful. Alright, So, uh so you're repping that like

432
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 1: you got fired. You get fired, and the obviously there's

433
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there listening right now who

434
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: are going to get fired or have been fired at

435
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: some point in their life, maybe not for any reason

436
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: of their own, certainly in this era where the coronavirus

437
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 1: and everything else with the unemployment rate is up. You

438
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: have one client in China. What does the client do

439
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: uh and what are they trying to do? So the

440
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: client was h There were three founders of this production

441
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: company and they were doing Western style commercials in a

442
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: market where Western style commercials didn't really exist so at

443
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: in the nineties. If you were Procter and Gamble or

444
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,239
Speaker 1: somebody trying to sell a toothpaste, they're literally be a

445
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: camera that has a still shot for five seconds of

446
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: a Tuba toothpaste on the table and that was your commercial.

447
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: They started works, That's the way they would, Yeah, exactly.

448
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: They started. Um There were two Chinese and one uh,

449
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: one guy that came in from New York that was

450
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: there from the early nineties on, and they started directing

451
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: commercials for Volkswagen in particular and also UM UH various

452
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: other sort of um less exciting type of clients. But

453
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: v W always wanted to have sort of Auto style

454
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: Super Bowl ads in that market, so they got really

455
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: good at shooting fantastic Western style commercials with a China flare,

456
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: and then over time, these companies that used different ad

457
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: agencies would ultimately come to them and say, Hey, we

458
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: think you guys have better creative instincts in regards to

459
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: this market than our ad agency that's based in Tokyo,

460
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: or in Hong Kong, or in Taiwan or even in

461
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: the US. Would you be our ad agency? And right

462
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: around the time when I dove head first into working

463
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: with them, um, was when they got Volkswagen as their

464
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: um first advertising client across the across the market, and

465
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: at the time Volkswagen was something like thirty market share

466
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: in that market. They had sixteen different models on sale,

467
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: So it was a huge effort and it literally transformed

468
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: the company from this little production house into a full

469
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: service advertising agency overnight. So can you explain to people

470
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: out there who may not have any clue how when

471
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: you arrive in China, even in two thousand, for I

472
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: think you said you got over there for the first time,

473
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: how behind would you say they were from an entertainment

474
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: and pop culture perspective to where we were in the

475
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: United States at that time. Well, I know because we

476
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: did the very first deals in sort of different exercises

477
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: that had never been done in that country before. For instance,

478
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: in the music business, the only music they had from

479
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: the West there was unlicensed. It was just pirated. So um,

480
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: folks Volkswagen really liked this song by that bop band Hampsten.

481
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember them, a song called

482
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah there is a song called I'll Come to You.

483
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: And I remember calling the music publishing house it was

484
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: Sony a TV at the time, saying hey, I want

485
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 1: to license this song for China and they said really, right,

486
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: no one licenses songs for China. I said, well, we

487
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: really want to build something special and did that condu

488
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: with the Hollywood, so we want to do it right,

489
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: so um ultimately, And what was crazy is everybody thought

490
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: China was full the money even back then, so they're like, well,

491
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: that's gonna cost you ten million dollars, right, And I

492
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: was like, no, all you got is a hundred fifty grand.

493
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: So you know, you had to work the network and

494
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: figure out how to get to the right people to

495
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: get that deal done. But it was things like that

496
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: where they had never been done before and we were

497
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: doing them for the first time and sending the template

498
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: for many others to do it. UM. It was interesting

499
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: because the music license same business was nothing in China,

500
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: and then shortly after we did Hanson some stuff with

501
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: the Jackson five and various others UM, suddenly it became

502
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: one of the biggest markets for music license same and

503
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: we did the same thing in regards to the sports

504
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: business UM television. We actually brought the World's Strongest Man

505
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: Competition over there because ESPN had been trying for years

506
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: to get access to that market, to do it and

507
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: to get that show on the air in China, and

508
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: we thought it was a brilliant idea for a show

509
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: because it's very simple to understand. It's like big guys

510
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: carrying heavy objects as fast as they can across the

511
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: finish line. So it really had since the Chinese and

512
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: we did this huge search for the Chinese Strongman Competition

513
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: and all kinds of other stuff, and ultimately we got

514
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: more viewers on the final night of airing that show

515
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: than the twenty five years added up of that show

516
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: did in total across the world forty six million viewers. Uh,

517
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: that's how popular The Strongest Man was in Uh in China,

518
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it just blew up. We made it popular

519
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: because we found this guy out in the rice fields,

520
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: um out and probably close to the Shinjang province actually,

521
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: um it was out in the west, and he was

522
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: somebody that was a big, strong guy, but didn't have

523
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: the technique for picking up refrigerators or any of that

524
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So we knew he wasn't gonna win,

525
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: but we created a mentor protege relationship with a guy

526
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: named Jesse Mrundi who we felt was going to be

527
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: the ultimate winner. So even after he got disqualified, he

528
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: was always on on the screen cheering on the eventual

529
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: winner of the of the program. So it worked really well.

530
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: People got really behind them and they got it became

531
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: a frenzy of a show leading into the two thousand

532
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: eight Olympics. So it was a really interesting sort of uh,

533
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: you know, one of the case studies that we pitched

534
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: to the movie studios ultimately down the road when we

535
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: were talking about how do you create relevant sheet for

536
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: that market in order to get access to the consumer

537
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: and get the consumer engaged in what you got? All right,

538
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: these are relatively small introductory aspects of pop culture. Uh.

539
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: The songs, the handsOn Song, American toothpaste, America's strongest man.

540
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: When do all of the you know, big movies really

541
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: start to recognize the opportunity in China? Was there a

542
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: lightbulb moment take me into that universe as it continued

543
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: to grow the relationship between China and American pop culture. Yeah,

544
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: So one thing you got to realize when you're marketing

545
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: there is that everything is overseen by the Ministry of Propaganda,

546
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: which reports directly to the commun This Party of China.

547
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: So all the is it literally called the Ministry of Propaganda. Yeah,

548
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: the Propaganda Ministry or I mean that's kind of crazy, right, Okay,

549
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: so you have to get everything, okay, to effectively by

550
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: that ministry, which is directly reporting to the Chinese Communist

551
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: Party exactly. So you've got to think of it like this.

552
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: And this is the one of the ways I would

553
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: always talk to people in North America about it, because

554
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: there's there's such a glass ceiling of what you're gonna

555
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: know about China. There's so much nuquauntch to it. And

556
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: as an American working in l A and just going

557
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: back and forth, I had a massive glass ceiling. So

558
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: the way I look at it and the way a

559
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: lot of people agree is that the Chinese Communist Party

560
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: has one major goal, and that's the keep one point

561
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: four billion people just happy enough that they don't revolt.

562
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: They don't want another Tianna men Square. Okay, why do

563
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: I say just happy enough? Because for one point four

564
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: billion people to all be happy, there's not enough resources

565
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: on earth to do that, right, So they need to

566
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: give all those people all of what they need, some

567
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: of what they want, and they need to create messaging

568
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: that they have all that, and then also create messaging

569
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: that says, hey, if you aspire for more, you can

570
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: get that, you can get into that middle class. Right,

571
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: And that is how they keep the populace content and

572
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: not overthrowing the CCP. So the Ministry of Propaganda is

573
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: overseeing the messaging for all those people. Imagine in the

574
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: United States of America, you had MSNBC, CNN, Richo, Matdow,

575
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson, you know, Steve Bannon, Maria Barderomo, Fox, Fox Sports, ESPN,

576
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: everybody on the same message all day long, every day. Right,

577
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: it would be impossible for the American public not to

578
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: have sort of other thoughts, other ideas, other opinions, because

579
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: they're just this this this messaging is is thrown down

580
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: their throats all day long. Right, That's what's the deal

581
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: in China. Right. So the idea is, if you're gonna

582
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: market a product and service in that country, you need

583
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: to think about does it play into keeping the populace happy?

584
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: And part of that is creating cultural relevancy with any

585
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: of that product and service, which showcases something that's exciting

586
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: to the Chinese, something that creates pride, something that creates

587
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: this want and desire of a Western democracy company coming

588
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: into their market and making it feel special to those people.

589
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: The other thing is is trying to integrate some sort

590
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: of middle class objective into that product or service. I e.

591
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: That's why there's forced jvs where um. In order to

592
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: sell a product or service there, you've got to create

593
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: your own JV over there that's owned by the Chinese,

594
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: because that's going to create jobs, middle class jobs. Or

595
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: if you're shooting a movie or shooting the World's Strongest

596
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: Man competition, you bring over best in class people from

597
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: Hollywood to help make it side by side with Chinese

598
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: that are fledgling in that business, so they can learn

599
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: the skill set and the process to create their own

600
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: middle class skills in that industry. Right, So all that

601
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: stuff you have to think about in terms of the

602
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: Ministry of Propaganda's biggest objective, which is keeping those people

603
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: from revolting. So below the Ministry of Propaganda you have

604
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: various parts of the bureaucracy that oversee different parts of

605
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: where messaging is. So at the time, you had a

606
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: thing called the State Administration of Radio, Film and Television

607
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: that oversaw under the Ministry of Propaganda anything that was

608
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: on television, anything that was marketed on television, anything that's

609
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: in the movie business, anything that's in print, anything that

610
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: people absorb as some sort of narrative that governed it all. Right.

611
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: And then below that you had China Film Group, and

612
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: you had different sports divisions, the sports bureau, et cetera.

613
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: So all that plays into what we learned with the

614
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: sports business that ultimately led to the movie business. Right.

615
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: One of the things, and I sent you an article

616
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 1: earlier just to she because a lot of people forget this,

617
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: but Lebron James and Nike in two thousand four, this

618
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: was after his rookie season. He wanted to make Lebron

619
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: the next Michael Jordan's in that market. They created an

620
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: advertisement with their ad agency wid Nan Kennedy called the

621
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Chamber of Fear, and in the Chamber of Fear, a

622
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: series of age they incorporated Lebron James, a kung Fu

623
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: master and a dragon competing and in the competition Lebron

624
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 1: James one and it was the most it was the

625
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: most damaging commercial spot ever for the NBA, Lebron James

626
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: and Nike because it insulted the Ministry of Propaganda in

627
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: a way that said, you have a Western basketball player

628
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: defeating a niconic mythical creature up to the Chinese, a

629
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: dragon and an iconic person in the Chinese culture a

630
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 1: kung fu master, and they ripped it off everything that

631
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: was that was showing it, and it set back Lebron, Nike,

632
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: and the NBA quite a bit at the time. Now,

633
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: we got involved with Nike shortly thereafter, along with the

634
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: China n B A and offso the NBA and we

635
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: started working with them to make sure that the narratives

636
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: of everything they were working on always placated the CCP

637
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: in the Ministry of Propaganda. How did that initial ad

638
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: get approved, That's a good question. I I don't know

639
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: exactly how it got through Chances are a lot of

640
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: times you're dealing with lower level bureaucrats that will sign

641
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: off on something without thinking about it, and then it airs,

642
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: and then there's a bunch of criticism that makes its

643
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: way to the bosses above, and then the bosses above

644
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: make that lower level bureaucrat essentially disappear along with all

645
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: the ads that were approved. So how long would it

646
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: take for let's say the Chinese World Strongest Man to

647
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: get approval through all of those agencies to be greenlit. Well,

648
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: what's interesting is if you play into that message I

649
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: was talking about, which is creating this aspirational sort of

650
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: middle class directive and all the other kind of stuff,

651
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: it actually really works to put Windier back. So, in

652
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: terms of World's Strongest Man company Titian, we thought it

653
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: would be great to shoot it in Beijing. It was

654
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: in O five and the Olympics were gonna be an

655
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: O h, so we shoot it there. We'd have these

656
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: competitions up on the Green Wall and in the Forbidden City,

657
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: et cetera. But the Chinese government was like, no, we're

658
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: not interested in that. We're not going to approve it,

659
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: but we would approve it if you use it to

660
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: showcase another city that we really want on the global stage.

661
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: And we said, well, which one is that? And they

662
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: said chang Do. We're like, Chang Do, where is that?

663
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: And it's out you know, it's out in the Sichuan

664
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: province and at the time it had I think ten

665
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: or fifteen million people, but no one had heard of it.

666
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: But they wanted to showcase it as like this technological marvel.

667
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: In fact, that's where Intel started its headquarters in the

668
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: mid eighties for China, and ultimately we said, fine, we'll

669
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: shoot it in chang Do. There are all kinds of

670
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: backdrops and things no one knew on a global stage,

671
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: but we were sort of forced to use them and

672
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: showcase them. And it was a hugely successful show. In fact,

673
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: one thing that everybody can identify with, which is where

674
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: that what Chang Do is known for are pandas, So

675
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: we incorporated pandas quite a bit into the show. So

676
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: what did you do for the NBA after this disaster

677
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: in two thousand four where they have Lebron James being

678
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: able to defeat a dragon and a kung fu master. Well,

679
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: I mean there were a lot of things. What we

680
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: really try to do was put the NBA continue what

681
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan and David Stern were doing in the early nineties,

682
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: which was really make the NBA part of the cultural

683
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: fabric in China. So um Ben involved. We actually represented

684
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant along with obviously Rob Blanka for for several

685
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: years over there. We did a lot of stuff around

686
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: the Beijing Olympics. In fact, we we did this sort

687
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: of um uh five on five tournament that took the

688
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: best kids from around the country and they competed, and

689
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: we had Lebron, James, Kobe, Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony

690
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: all judged the competitions and picked out who we thought

691
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: the best player was were and all that kind of stuff.

692
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: So we had NBA players there all the time, right,

693
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: and it was really important to do that because the

694
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: Chinese needed to see this willingness of the NBA players

695
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: coming over there and wanting to be there, and we

696
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: would teach them different sort of slogans and Chinese and

697
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: teach them different cultural things, and we'd have um competitions

698
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: in the Forbidden City that would they would come to

699
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: and they would be sort of incorporated into the backdrops

700
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: of these iconic places for the national televised audience to see,

701
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: and it was really really important to ingratiate them to

702
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: that market, and ultimately too, it was how we helped

703
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: build this China uh NBA also, which was the version

704
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: that obviously you know of where some of these players

705
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: that aren't are no longer in the NBA find a

706
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: home overseas in China and it's really picked up to

707
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: the point where the ratings for the China NBA are

708
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: up there on par or not better than what the

709
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: NBA was prior to Darryl Mori tweet. So, would that

710
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: be something that Nike is paying for, uh, for those

711
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: eyes to be over there in China? Is that a

712
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: part of their marketing deals or were they doing separate

713
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: marketing deals for China related trips. Yeah. No, NBA was

714
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: involved with a lot of them because a lot of times,

715
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: I mean you know, Nike was involved with a lot

716
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: of them because a lot of times the players with

717
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: their showcasing new shoes that may or may not have

718
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: just been for the China, the China market or for

719
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: the global market. Um, So they were over there a

720
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: lot of times pitching some of the products that Nike

721
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: had the Nike would pay for a lot of that.

722
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: The NBA also, depending on the kind of event that

723
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: was going on and what was getting pushed with, the

724
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: NBA would be pushing for it too. And then obviously

725
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: the NBA was very involved with the building of the

726
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: China version of it, so there was a lot of

727
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: sort of cross collateralization with that too. UM and the

728
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: Olympics was really sort of this real big coming out

729
00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 1: party for the NBA, looking at looking at really twenty

730
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: years of building up what they built UM into the

731
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: two thous Olympics, which is sort of the culmination of

732
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: that coming out party. Here we are, we're China, We're

733
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 1: on the global stage, here's one of the greatest leagues

734
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: with the greatest players. UM they find us as a

735
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: second home. It was a really interesting sort of moment

736
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: and and an interesting case study on how the NBA

737
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: gratiated themselves so well into the Fabrica China. Do you

738
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: feel like you're an element of Chinese propaganda at this

739
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: point in time or are you so excited with the

740
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: business opportunities that you're not even thinking about the larger

741
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: societal consequences of your choices. It's a fantastic question and

742
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to give you the answer. But the fact is,

743
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: the idea of globalism, that mission of opening that market

744
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: to any American product and service was by far the

745
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: number one priority. It didn't matter how it was done.

746
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: And in my book, I actually talked about how my

747
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: wife questioned certain things we were doing with the movie

748
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: business and things, saying do you feel okay about that? Um.

749
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: There's a lot of moments in the book where um,

750
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: I reread them now and I go, Jesus, I sound

751
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: like I was working for the Ministry of Propaganda. Um.

752
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: But I never woke up to any of that issue. Literally,

753
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: this is how embarrassing it is. I never thought about it,

754
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: never thought I was doing anything wrong until days after

755
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: the Daryl Morey tweet and I in October of last year,

756
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 1: and I saw the reaction of majority of Americans towards

757
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: this cow town that the NBA was doing to China

758
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: in order to get access to it. And that was

759
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: the moment, that was the aha moment, as ridiculous as

760
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: it sounds, where I go, oh my god, I was

761
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: a part of that. And I was definitely a huge

762
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: part of it. When it came to Hollywood. Why do

763
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: you think that Darryl more a tweet and the reaction

764
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: to it in China was suddenly a lightbulb moment for you. Well,

765
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't the reaction and China was the reaction in

766
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: the United States. When I remember, I was watching I

767
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: have a thirteen year old Shawn, and I was watching

768
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: him play soccer with a couple of soccer dads when

769
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: I saw that tweet popped up. I've never heard of

770
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: door Darryl Morey, but I definitely knew of the Houston

771
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: Rockets because of the al Ming. They're the biggest branded

772
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: team in China. And I remember saying to the dad

773
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: next to me, I said, oh my god, this is

774
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: gonna be terrible for the NBA in China, and he

775
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: said why is that? And I was like, you watch

776
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: trust me. And by the way, within twenty four hours,

777
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: I was a right. What I didn't see, I never

778
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: saw coming, was the reaction of this, you know, and

779
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: I hate to use the word woke, but the American

780
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: public because of the bumbling and fumbling of the response

781
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: of the NBA, whether it was Adam Silver, Steve Kerr,

782
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: Lebron James, or even Darryl Moore, himself about sort of

783
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: the hypocrisy of the fact that he used his right

784
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: of First Amendment UM and it was used against him

785
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: by China and no one backed him on that. That

786
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: woke the American public to the fact of Wait a minute,

787
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: why aren't you not backing him up? Wait what you

788
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: guys couched out of the Chinese like that where you're

789
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: just gonna stay silent on this issue when you talk

790
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: about everything else that Wait, that makes no sense. And

791
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: it erupted And next thing I know, I'm on all

792
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: kinds of different interviews and stuff talking about it while

793
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: I'm figuring out for myself. Jeez, I just wrote this

794
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: book about how colorful and Jerry McGuire by story was

795
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: with China and how interesting the glue is of commerce

796
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: and culture exchange between the two superpowers. And now suddenly

797
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: I'm realizing, oh my god, I wrote a book about

798
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: how smoking is really good for you health wise for

799
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: twenty years, and then suddenly one day a report comes

800
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: out and says smoking will kill you. I'm going, what

801
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: am I going to do about this book? Right? And

802
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: that was the that was the thing where I go, Hey,

803
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: I'm I was in the fog of war of globalism

804
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: like everybody else, and I finally had a waking moment

805
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: about it. So I'm gonna be the squeaky wheel in

806
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: this situation. I'm gonna have this book come out and

807
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about it, and I'm gonna do it, uh,

808
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: even though I know a lot of people are not

809
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: gonna want me talking about it. And that's where I am,

810
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: and that why I wanted to be on your show,

811
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: because you're actually somebody in the sports industry calling it

812
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: out and saying we need to fix this. What kind

813
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: of changes were you required to make for movies in

814
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: China in order to get them in front of Chinese audiences?

815
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: Do you recall a couple of examples of what was

816
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: going on prior to kind of your lightbulb moment with

817
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: the NBA in China. Yeah. I walk people through various

818
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: case studies in the book in a in a very

819
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: sort of fun way, but one is uh. For instance,

820
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: a movie called looper Um that started Bruce Willis, Joseph Gordon, Levitt,

821
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: Emily Blunt. It was a sci fi thriller where it

822
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: takes place in the present day and also forty years

823
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: in the future, and the movie was supposed to take

824
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: place in the United States and in France, but it

825
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: was a movie we thought we could make money in China,

826
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: even though time travel is banned in terms of content

827
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: in China. And the reason that's banned is because the

828
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: Ministry of Propaganda wants to control the narrative of what

829
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: things happened in history, and they wanted to control the

830
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: narrative where things go in the future. So we played

831
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: into that future and where things where they want things

832
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: to go in the future. So we we approached the

833
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: filmmakers and said, hey, what happens if we switched the

834
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: future in this movie to be China. And the reason

835
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: for that is China is really where the way of

836
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: the world's going to be in forty years, Like there's

837
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: so much of a push to that side of the world.

838
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: Who knows what's going to happen with France, like China

839
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: is on the front page of every paper, blah blah blah.

840
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: And Brian Johnson, the filmmaker, ultimately, over a long convincing period,

841
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: decided to say, Okay, let's do that. And then we

842
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: went to the CCP and said, hey, we're gonna make

843
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: this movie and we're gonna showcase China as the place

844
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: everybody wants to be in the future. What city do

845
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: you want us to showcase? They said, Shanghai. Great, How

846
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: do you want Shanghai to look? And they said, well,

847
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: we wanted to look like the most like modern day

848
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: Marvel metropolis you could ever imagine. We said, great, here's

849
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: a bunch of modeling we did with c G companies.

850
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: What what buildings do you like? What do you want

851
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: in the backdrop? How do you want it to look? Here?

852
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: The colors, here, the queues, all that kind of stuff,

853
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: And we worked with the Chinese officials to make what

854
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: they thought was the perfect backdrop for these locations, and

855
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: we did it. And then on top of it, in

856
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: the movie itself, we cast the Chinese actress so we

857
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: could showcase the fact that we were providing interesting sort

858
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: of artistic opportunities for their for their people. We shot

859
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: a lot of it on the ground over there. We

860
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: did process and skill exchanges with best and class crews

861
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: in Hollywood along with their people that were in that

862
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: fledgling industry, so we were showing that we could bring

863
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: middle class jobs into their film industry that way. And

864
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: then on top of it, We had lines in there

865
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: where Jeff Daniels. If you've seen the movie, Jeff Daniels

866
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: is a mobster from the future. He comes back into

867
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: the present day. Joseph Gordon Levitt says one day when

868
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: I retire and moving to France, and it goes, now,

869
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: you should move to China, and Joseph Lovely goes now,

870
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I want to move to France, and Geffino

871
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: slams his fist on the table and he says, I'm

872
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: from the future, you want to move to China, And

873
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: it was one of the most infomercial moments you could

874
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: ever imagine for China. But then on top of it,

875
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: our energy screenings, which are the test screens we did

876
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: here in America, that was one of the highest testing

877
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: moments in the movie too, because it was sort of

878
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: a fun comedic moment. Fox Sports Radio has the best

879
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our

880
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the

881
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen

882
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: live all of this. Initially, like the stories that you're telling,

883
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: I can see how they happen. And we're talking with

884
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: Chris Finton. His book is Feeding the dragon inside the

885
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: trillion dollar dilemma facing Hollywood, the NBA, and American business.

886
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: You can see how these small things start to be

887
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: given to China, and initially they don't seem very substantial,

888
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: but then they continue to grow and grow to the

889
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: point where with the Darryl more A situation, and if

890
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: people don't remember, he's the Houston Rockets GM who basically

891
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: tweeted support for Hong Kong democracy protesters, and the reaction

892
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: in China was Chinese values no longer now are limited

893
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: to China. We expect for Chinese values to be propagated

894
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: around the world. And effectively, what they were saying to

895
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: the n b A is your employees don't have First

896
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 1: Amendment rights to say whatever they want, even if they're

897
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: not making those comments in China if they offend our

898
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: cultural sensibilities. And so for people out there who are like,

899
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: why should I care about this, it's because China is

900
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: now trying to propagate Chinese values around the world, much

901
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: of which is in direct contravention with basic human rights

902
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: and ideals espoused by America for a century or more. Yeah,

903
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: that's and that's why I was excited to talk to

904
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: you about this. Subject because you and I see very

905
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: eye to eye with that issue, right like I think

906
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: you and I differ differ on the cold Are we

907
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: at cold war right now? Because I would say we're

908
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: so entangled with commerce and trade that it's almost impossible

909
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: to call it a cold war like we had with

910
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: the U. S. S R. But your your idea that

911
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: they are encroaching on our First Amendment rights when we're

912
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: on our soil here is what really really bothers me,

913
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: and to me, I'm not I'm not looking to the

914
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: NBA of the sports community or Disney in the Hollywood community.

915
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: It's try to figure out how to solve the atrocities

916
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: too wiggers, or to tell the Chinese to pull back

917
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: their encroachment from Hong Kong, which happened twenty seven years

918
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: earlier than they promised. I'm saying these two entities need

919
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: to come together and support each other and create a

920
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: united effort to stop this cross border censorship that the

921
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: Chinese have started doing. In relatively recent times. It was

922
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: one thing to answer things for inside their borders, for

923
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: their populous to see, right, they want to keep one

924
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 1: point four billion people just happy enough that they don't

925
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: revolt so you know, they don't want things that are

926
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: going to create envy or create these aspirations that make

927
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: people want to live in a full democracy or whatever.

928
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: That is fine, that's your market will censor for you.

929
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: And I get it. Hawks are gonna be mad at

930
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 1: me for saying this, But I'm okay with that because

931
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: we do the same thing for Japan, We do the

932
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: same thing for South Korea. Would do the same thing

933
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: for Middle Eastern countries. We censor for their own territories. Right.

934
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: The problem is is when they say Darryl Morey, and

935
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: by the way, Daryl Morey reached out to me, he

936
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: seems like a super cool guy like Darryl Morey used

937
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: his First Amendment rights as an American citizen in Houston, Texas,

938
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: on American soil and says, I do not agree with

939
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: what China is doing here. I support the Hong Kong protesters.

940
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: He has every right to do that. And quite frankly,

941
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: the Ministry of Propaganda and their firewall can keep that

942
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: tweet from being seen by anybody inside of their country,

943
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 1: so they can't say, oh, that's going to create it

944
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: a revolution or whatever, and we're piste off. No, they

945
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 1: can fire wall that instead. What they're saying is, oh,

946
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna fire wall that all day long from our

947
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: populace ever seeing it, whether you say stuff like that

948
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: or not. And there's all kinds of instances of that.

949
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: But on top of it, we don't want somebody in

950
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: Argentina seeing that tweet. We don't want to see somebody

951
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: in Germany seeing that tweet. We don't want to see

952
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: somebody in Hennessee see in that tweet. We want to

953
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: control the narrative of what the global of what the

954
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: Globe says about China, and that they claim is their prerogative.

955
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: And I'm saying no, We've got to stand up against that.

956
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: And the only way we can do it, and this

957
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: is the solution, right And I get the callouts of

958
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: Lebron James to stand up for these people and to

959
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,479
Speaker 1: say the right things and to do what we think

960
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: is best. The problem is with Lebron is if he

961
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: does that, he gets replaced by the next basketball player

962
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: that's willing to keep his head in the sand. If

963
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: Disney stands up, he gets they get replaced. Their theme

964
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: park suddenly gets shut down. Universal takes it over along

965
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: with their Universal Beijing Park. Universal and Warner Brothers movies

966
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: take the place of the Disney movie. It becomes the

967
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: sacrificial land whack a mole situation, right, and nothing changes.

968
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 1: The only way it changes is what Americans have done

969
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: all our history, which is strength in numbers, unify and

970
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: create leverage. If we have the sports community back Daryl

971
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: Morey and say, you know what if you take if

972
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: he takes a stand on our soil and exercises his rights,

973
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: we stand behind it. China, if you retaliate against that.

974
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: We are not sending our products and services over there.

975
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: Nike is not sending our shoes over there. We're shutting

976
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: down our factories. NBA is not going to play the games,

977
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: which obviously that's already been taken care of. The Premier

978
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: League is going to stop working with them, which is,

979
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: by the way, something else that's happening. Anything involved with

980
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: the sports industry. Shuts off that water, you know, that

981
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: that current of of flow, and then on top of it,

982
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: we get the I O C behind it, which is

983
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: the ultimate leverage. Point two aging Winter Olympics, and the

984
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: same thing can be done by Hollywood. Disney stands up

985
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: and says, hey, we're not We're not capable of stopping

986
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: what's going on with leakers, but we can voice it

987
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: so that we can ground swell a global effort to

988
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 1: stop it. Right, and we're going to exercise our First

989
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: Amendment rights, and the rest of the Hollywood community is

990
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: going to back us, because if China retaliates, we're gonna

991
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: shut off all movies. We're gonna shut off all Activision,

992
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna shut off all Imax, We're gonna shut off

993
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: all Hasbro, anything that are partners of the Hollywood community.

994
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: That's gonna stop. And that becomes an issue for the

995
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: c c P. Why because it creates discontent. All that

996
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: populace is used to getting that stuff, not not used

997
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: to getting Disney where that's going to create a problem,

998
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: but they're used to getting Western forms of content products

999
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: from the sports and Hollywood industry on a whole that's

1000
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: so big that it creates a vacuum if it's all

1001
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: shut off, and the CCP wants to avoid making those

1002
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: people upset, so they'll back off. Be sure to catch

1003
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: live editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week

1004
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking

1005
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: to Chris Fenton. I'm Clay Travis is the Winds and

1006
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: Losses podcast. Uh okay, So let's go back to the NBA.

1007
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: Lebron James basically lines up behind China. You've got the

1008
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: owner of the New Jersey Nets, who I believe is

1009
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: is It's I. I'm not sure t s a. I.

1010
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you pronounce his name. Uh he

1011
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: is Chinese? Yeah, Joseph's I. You've got Steve Kerr. You've

1012
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: got all these guys that Adam Silver, that are so

1013
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: outspoken about flaws that exist in America, which are a

1014
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: pen prick of the flaws that exist in China. Yet

1015
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: none of those guys will speak out in any way

1016
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: in defense of basic American values to Chinese institutions. Is

1017
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: it just money? I mean? And do you agree with

1018
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: me that there is profound hypocrisy in the way that

1019
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 1: not just the NBA, but the NBA as a metaphor

1020
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 1: for the larger American cultural institutions are profoundly rejecting American

1021
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: values in the way that they're interacting with China right now. Uh,

1022
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: with everybody other than Joseph SSI, I'll say that it

1023
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: is money. I think Joseph Si probably has other issues,

1024
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: including family that's in China and his ties with China.

1025
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: Um he probably has security interests that he's got to

1026
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: be careful of. But everybody else, it just comes down

1027
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: to money. And yes, is it a hypocrisy, But I

1028
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: feel okay saying that because I was a hypocrite for

1029
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: twenty years too. Like I was a hundred percent complicit

1030
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: in this, and quite frankly, there's not a lot of

1031
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: people that were as integrated in the applied and practical

1032
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: sort of expertise of being as complicit as I was.

1033
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: And that's why I've decided to become a squeaky wheel

1034
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: on this and I leave that over time, with enough pressure,

1035
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get more squeaky wheels involved. In fact. Judd

1036
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: Apatality the other day on MSNBC started talking about it,

1037
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: which is interesting. You don't see that from the filmmaking

1038
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,959
Speaker 1: world in Hollywood. You're starting to see various individuals start

1039
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: to take a stance, So we're starting to make a difference.

1040
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: And what's even more interesting is that this book right which,

1041
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: as you know, the book books don't make you a

1042
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 1: lot of money, but I have noticed that the higher

1043
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 1: my book goes up on lists. The less the left

1044
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: side of the aisle, the mainstream media platforms that I

1045
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: need to get on to be a proper squeaky wheel,

1046
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: start to get to the point where they can't ignore

1047
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Even though they want to protect

1048
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: Hollywood community, they want to protect the NBA and the

1049
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: sports community, they can't stop me from getting on there

1050
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: because we're building enough momentum to start talking about it.

1051
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: And quite frankly, this is the left and right issue,

1052
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 1: as I talked about before, and if you look at

1053
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: the left side of the aisle, I mean you and

1054
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: rights uh are the freedom of expression and freedom of

1055
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: creative endeavors, UH, middle class issues, national security. There's a

1056
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: lot of democratic platforms that this falls right smack into.

1057
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: So we need to stop not talking about it. So

1058
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: I calls it a third rail issue. We got to

1059
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: stop with that. We need to talk about it. We

1060
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: need to apply the pressure to everybody that's involved, and

1061
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 1: we need to come up with solutions that are better

1062
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: than just calling out, say Lebron James and say hey,

1063
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: do the right thing, Because we don't want to be

1064
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: in a sacrificial lamb whackle mall business where people are

1065
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: just replaced by others that are staying silent and nothing

1066
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 1: is accomplished. We need to figure out how to put

1067
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: the weight of America behind this and to get it fixed,

1068
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: because this encroachment is what the Chinese do all the time.

1069
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: They're like an adolescent, They're like a teenager. If you

1070
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: don't push back on them, they keep pushing further. And

1071
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 1: it's like they had a ten o'clock curfew and now

1072
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: suddenly we're realizing that they're getting home at three am

1073
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: because no one told them that they had to keep

1074
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: it at ten am. We need to push him back

1075
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: and we've seen it work in the past with China

1076
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: and it will work this time. But we got to

1077
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: motivate everybody to start talking about it and work together

1078
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: to fix it. Should we demand that the Olympics be

1079
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 1: pulled out of China? In two look, I like, would

1080
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: you like to see? Would you like to see? And

1081
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: the reason why I bring it up you say it's nonpartisan. Uh,

1082
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: would you like to see a decision made? And one

1083
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: of the things that was great about the response to

1084
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 1: the NBA and the Darryl Moray tweet was you had

1085
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: Alexandria Caso Cortez AOC and Ted Cruz writing a joint

1086
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: letter condemning the NBA's behavior in their response to China,

1087
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: and it was like, for a lot of people, it

1088
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: was a wow moment over the expansiveness of China's definition

1089
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 1: of what exactly they were trying to do in the

1090
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: twenty one century. A lot of people suddenly it was

1091
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: like they realized it. And again, it's not a democrat,

1092
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: it's not a republican. But basically what it is is

1093
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: we are selling American values in exchange for money. Right

1094
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: in general, you mentioned earlier the pent Thing Disney has

1095
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: a amusement park in China that they own of but

1096
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: China owns fifty one percent of so China controls the

1097
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: decisions that are being made there to a large extent.

1098
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: I think one reason Lebron James didn't speak out is

1099
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: because he wants Space Jam two to be on in

1100
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: Beijing theaters. Right, everybody is making the decision that advocates

1101
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: for their pocket book, but in the process they are

1102
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 1: selling American values out, which is ultimately allowing China's influence

1103
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: to grow around the world and creating major issues for

1104
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: human rights, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, all

1105
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: of the things that should be the essence of the

1106
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: American experience. Yeah, I was so in regards the Olympics

1107
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: in two. I am firmly behind the idea of boycott.

1108
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: Boycotting it if we can can, if we can decide

1109
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: on as a country the important priorities that we want

1110
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: overturned in exchange for still competing in that right, Like,

1111
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: I feel like there's atrocities that are going on around

1112
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: the world. There are wrongs going on around the world,

1113
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:22,919
Speaker 1: and to try to swoop in and say we want

1114
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: all wrongs fixed by China, we want them to be

1115
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: a democracy or whatever it is. I'm not saying it's

1116
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: not fair. I'm just saying it's not realistic in terms

1117
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: of the Olympics and whether the boycott. What I would

1118
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: like to see are things that are near and dear

1119
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: to Americans protected, and the First Amendment right is one

1120
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: of those, like we need to be able to voice,

1121
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: whether it's an industry, a political leader, a citizen, what

1122
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: we feel is wrong in terms of human rights abuses

1123
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: that have been occurring around the world, like we do

1124
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: with every other country. China cannot pay for our silence,

1125
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: and that is what they're doing. They're essentially saying, we'll

1126
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: pay you a lot of money if you carry our

1127
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: narrative around the world, and that needs to stop. So

1128
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: I would say, just in the most basic leverage point

1129
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: and call to action, it would be China, stop with

1130
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: this first Amendment right encroachment. We are going to say

1131
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: what we want to say outside of your soil, and

1132
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: you cannot retaliate if you do. We are not sending

1133
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: our athletes to Beijing, and that, to me is a

1134
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: realistic goal. Isn't it crazy that the NBA players and

1135
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: owners and and and a commissioner will speak out politically

1136
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: at the drop of a hat on anything in America

1137
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: on their social media accounts. But if you ask them,

1138
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: like I've done this with Mark Cuban, Hey, Mark, you

1139
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,959
Speaker 1: speak out on everything all day long. Will you say

1140
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: that you support basic human rights in China? They won't

1141
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: say it. I mean, I I just I don't understand

1142
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: how they can get and look themselves in the mirror.

1143
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: Mark Cuban is a good example. This guy is always

1144
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: lecturing people all day long. Uh. Same thing with Steve Kerr, certainly,

1145
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: same thing with Lebron James. They lecture Americans all day

1146
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: long about things that we do wrong. Yet they won't

1147
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: even speak out in any way about one of the

1148
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: things that we have done better than any country in

1149
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: the history of the world, which is propagate basic human

1150
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: rights around the globe. They won't say that Chinese people

1151
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: deserve basic human rights. They won't say it. Yeah, it's well.

1152
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: And by the way, watch the Oscars speech or the

1153
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: Golden Globe speech and you'll see the exact same hippos

1154
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: from actors and actresses right exactly so. And and the

1155
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: part that's even more troubling to me is that we

1156
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: just witnessed in a domestic issue, obviously, the violence against

1157
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: blacks by police and the BLM movement. We just witnessed

1158
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 1: the ability for the NBA to lead a sports industry boycott,

1159
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: to make a point and to hold firm on a

1160
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: position and the whole sports industry back. Then the same

1161
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: thing can be done on an international issue that is

1162
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: this important. I don't know why they don't utilize that

1163
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: ability to do it. They can do it. It's we

1164
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: just saw it happen. And that's the part where it

1165
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: drives me crazy when people say, look, you know, and

1166
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: I get a lot of this not publicly but privately. Hey,

1167
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: I love what you're saying. I wish more people would

1168
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: do it. I would join you, but I get fired

1169
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: and I can't do it publicly or whatever it is.

1170
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: But also, don't you think it's a little unrealistic to

1171
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: think that all the Hollywood studios could get behind this effort,

1172
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: or all the sports leagues and the sports players can

1173
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: And I go, no, not at all. First of all,

1174
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 1: that's not American to say something like that, we can

1175
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: stand behind whatever issue we find is most important to

1176
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: go do that. But number two is we just witnessed

1177
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: it in the sports industry over a domestic issue, which

1178
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: by the way, is a really important issue to handle,

1179
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: just like this one is internationally. Like, we can do this,

1180
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: It's not that impossible. All we need is a handful

1181
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: of leaders. I mean, I would call on an emissary

1182
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: and like Phil Knight and maybe Lebron James and some

1183
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: others from different sports and different sports industry partners to

1184
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: come up, come together and say let's leave this charge

1185
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: and let's just get it done. The Chinese will back off,

1186
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: they always do, So how does this end? Like, let's

1187
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: presume what is China's goal? Here. You said earlier that

1188
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: their goal is to keep people happy enough that they

1189
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: don't revolt, that there's not another tenement square. But it

1190
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: seems to me like China's goal is not just that anymore.

1191
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: It's now to start to spread and propagate Chinese values

1192
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: around the world. If you look at the money they're

1193
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: spending in Africa, if you look at the money they're

1194
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: spending in Europe and Latin America, they are trying to

1195
01:02:56,040 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 1: create a series of countries that are basically subsidiary. Are

1196
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: he's subsidizing the Chinese values around the world. It seems

1197
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: like their gaze is no longer inward, but now external,

1198
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: beyond the boundaries of the country. What based on your

1199
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: experience in China do they want now, Well, a lot

1200
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: of that belt you're you're referring to Belton Road initiative

1201
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: around the world and sort of how they're building in

1202
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: They're spending money like crazy all over the world to

1203
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 1: try to curry influence in favor exactly. And and a

1204
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 1: lot of that has to do with supplying commodities and

1205
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: certain resources to their one point four billion people. So

1206
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: they've got enough food, and they have enough energy needs,

1207
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: and they have all kinds of other stuff to keep

1208
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: them from uprising. That's number one. That's what that Belton

1209
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: Road initiative and a lot of that pushes. But then

1210
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: number two is they are trying to spread their wings.

1211
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: I mean the South China see is a perfect example.

1212
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: You're seeing Hong Kong for sure, although maybe Taiwan complicated. Yeah,

1213
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: well Hong Kong is a little complicated because technically there

1214
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: was a fifty year deal that they encroached twenty seven

1215
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: years early to get it back on on the PRC

1216
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: sort of territory lists. But um, and then Taiwan is

1217
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,479
Speaker 1: obviously going to be an issue probably in the coming year,

1218
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: which is a little scary. Um. And then we're seeing

1219
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: with it with the Arctic, definitely, with Africa, like you

1220
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: talked about, various European countries, Southeast Asia countries. You're seeing

1221
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: them spread their wings. Now do they want to be

1222
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: the global dominant player that they want to lead the

1223
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: world someday? I would question whether that's really their motivation.

1224
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they are pacifists in a lot of ways.

1225
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: They're not really that big into starting wars, but if

1226
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 1: you corner them, they're gonna fight back hard. Um. I

1227
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 1: think that they're looking to say, Hey, this side of

1228
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: the world is ours. Your side of the world United

1229
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: States is yours. Don't screw with us anymore. We've come

1230
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 1: to play. Why did you decide to write the book? Now?

1231
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: The book is again feeding the dragon inside the trillion

1232
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: dollar dilemma facing holl would the NBA in American business.

1233
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: He's Chris Fenton. You worked with China for twenty years.

1234
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: I know you said your light bulb moment was the

1235
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: Darryl Moore a tweet Why now? Presumably no, this this

1236
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: business burns a lot of your bridges of relationships with China.

1237
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: I would think, why now? Why speak out now? Well?

1238
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: Number one is I had planned to write a very

1239
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: colorful sort of memoir anyway prior to the Darryl More things,

1240
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of it on the page

1241
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: without the thematic of oh my god, what have we done?

1242
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 1: Darryl was the one who sort of created that moment

1243
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: that I looped into the thematics of the book um

1244
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: to essentially say, well, now, reader, you understand sort of

1245
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: this colorful journey of how Chris Fenton even fell into

1246
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: this crazy business and then sort of how crazy it

1247
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: was as a business between these two superpowers and the

1248
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: misguided mission that we're all under this fog of war

1249
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: of globalism that turns out to be really wrong. So

1250
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: now that we're aware of that, what now? And I

1251
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: sort of present certain paths forward that I think we

1252
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,439
Speaker 1: need to start talking about as a country in order

1253
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: to try to rectify some of the wrongs. So why

1254
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: did I write it? It was initially because a lot

1255
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: of people told me my stories are just insane and

1256
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: you've got to put it on the page or telling

1257
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: in a movie or something. But number two is why

1258
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: am I so outspoken in a squeaky wheel about it?

1259
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 1: Because I believe as Americans we're gonna come together on

1260
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: this issue. We're not going to fix all the world's evils,

1261
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: and we're not gonna fix all of China's evils, but

1262
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: we are going to come together and decide on this

1263
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: idea of patriotism and patriotism before capitalism. That is my

1264
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: mission that I think is make America great again? Or

1265
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: death panels or Black Lives Matter or whatever is that

1266
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: is the slogan that makes it very simple. Think about

1267
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: what it is to be a patriot before you embark

1268
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: on free market capitalism, which by the way, I'm a

1269
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: total fan of, and quite frankly, if you look at

1270
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: it that way, I bet you the capitalistic endeavors that

1271
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: we can go after with that first priority in mind

1272
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: become better for all Americans and probably more profitable in

1273
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: the long run too. And the issue for me is

1274
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: how do we start talking about this, like who starts

1275
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: the movement? And I'm not saying I'm the one guy

1276
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: that starts it, but I'm just saying we need squeaky wheels,

1277
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: we need people to come out, We need platforms, which

1278
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: is why I hope the people that listen to this

1279
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: not because it puts a lot of money in my pocket,

1280
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: because it doesn't. But the farther up these lists I

1281
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: get with this book, the more I get on the

1282
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: left side of the aisles platforms, because I gotta get

1283
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: in that bubble and talk about it and create a

1284
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: crescendo of pressure so that people start talking about it

1285
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: and start dealing with the issue. And I do think

1286
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: there's baby steps approaches to it, where we can tackle

1287
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: things that we can accomplish first, with an end goal

1288
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: of maybe somewhere down the road really accomplishing like closing

1289
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: down the concentration camps in the Jinjaang profit But that's

1290
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: not the initial goal. The initial goal is we have principles, values,

1291
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: national security interests that we hold dearly here in this country.

1292
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: We need to fight back and get them right. We

1293
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: need to create leverage to continue doing work in China,

1294
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: selling our products and services there, because there's a lot

1295
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: of money to make from that market. Quite frankly, we

1296
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: helped build that market into what it is today. It's

1297
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: our turn to get our money out um. And keep

1298
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: in mind, we did this in the early eighteen hundreds

1299
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: with Europe to catch up to them. We had a

1300
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,839
Speaker 1: lot of protectionist policies. We had a lot of tariffs,

1301
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: we had all kinds of stealing intellectual property to create

1302
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: our own industrial revolution. And then one day Europe said, okay,

1303
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:42,600
Speaker 1: you caught up to us. Enough is enough, You're not

1304
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: doing it anymore. That's what we need to do with China.

1305
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: Although I will say back in the eighteen hundreds, we

1306
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 1: weren't spreading the United States propaganda all through Europe. That

1307
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: wasn't part of the situation. That's one of the issues

1308
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: that we have with China that we gotta address right now.

1309
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 1: Man This is absolutely fascinating. I'm gonna go read the book.

1310
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: It's Chris Finton. I haven't read the book yet. I

1311
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: will now. I imagine a lot of you will be

1312
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: interested in reading it as well. Chris. Thanks for the time,

1313
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: my man. We will maybe get you on the radio

1314
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: show at some point in the future. Yeah, Clay, Well,

1315
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: first of all, anybody wants to follow me just um,

1316
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm at the dragon feeder on Twitter, and I'll tell

1317
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: you right now, I have no problem getting up at

1318
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: four in the morning West Coast time to behind your

1319
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: awesome show. I listen to it every day. I love it.

1320
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: I love how you stand your ground on things and

1321
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: you come up with solutions and your fans are fantastic.

1322
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: And by the way, thank you as a guy who

1323
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: drove down from Cornell every weekend to see my brother

1324
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 1: at Penn State to watch those big Big ten games,

1325
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: like thanks for getting behind that cause I hope they

1326
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 1: come back and play some football, you and me both.

1327
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: Uh and again, I just would reiterate with this China

1328
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: situation as you have as well. It's not partisan, right,

1329
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want our battle with China to

1330
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: turn into something where Republicans think we need to be

1331
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: doing one thing, Democrats think we need to be doing another.

1332
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: I know they'll the subtle variations, but we need to

1333
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: be combating them on all fronts in an aggressive manner.

1334
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: And uh, I think you have made that case very

1335
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: very eloquently here today with us. Thanks my man. By

1336
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: the way, I'll keep you a sight of hope, like

1337
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: maybe China is a blessing in disguise, and it's it's

1338
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: an issue that all Americans can get behind and it

1339
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: unites us as a country, no kidding. When AOC and

1340
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: Ted Cruz are writing on the same letter furious with

1341
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 1: the NBA for their response to Darryl Morey. Uh, Darryl

1342
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: Morey debacle, you know that there's actually at least something

1343
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: that still unites us. Thank you, my man. I am

1344
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: Clay Travis. This has been wins and Losses. Encourage you

1345
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 1: to go listen to the thirty plus conversations we've had.

1346
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: This is yet another in the fascinating line that we

1347
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 1: have been producing. Thanks a lot, and we'll talk to

1348
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,719
Speaker 1: you next time. This has been wins and Losses. Fox

1349
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

1350
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot

1351
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

1352
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:00,679
Speaker 1: s R to listen live.