1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Before we jump in, we must warn you this episode 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: contains explicit content, such as sexual abuse that may be 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: disturbing to some people. Listener discretion is advised. Elisa Flores 4 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: inherited Lalus del Mundo from her parents, as from many others. 5 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: The church was her backbone, her compass, her everything. When 6 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: she finally left, she had no idea how to live 7 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: in a world without the cult. For Elisa, even the 8 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: simplest things like choosing an outfit in the morning turned 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: into a struggle. 10 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: In the colts, you wore long skirts every day and 11 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: my whole life that's basically all I wore. And I 12 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: went to the grocery store for the first time wearing pants, 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: and I was like so uncomfort I felt like everybody's 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: watching me. 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: The everyday experiences people like Elisa go through can be 16 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: totally incomprehensible to those who have never been inside a 17 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: high control group or cult, because the shackles these organizations 18 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: impose on their members are invisible to the rest of 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: the world, turning the most mundane actions like what to wear, 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: into life altering experiences charged with terrifying meanings. My interest 21 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: in Le luzel Mundo is not only professional I was 22 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: raised in Mexico in a high control Catholic group that 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: required the surrender of all free thought and will at 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: the service of a guy that liked to be called 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: Mustro Pardi. Our father, and what a father. He was 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: a clean cut and strictly frocked priests that preached purity, devotion, 27 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: and sacrifice. He raped over seventy seminarians under his care 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: were twelve or thirteen year olds. He was a painkiller addict, 29 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: liked his cars to be Mercedes and his jets to 30 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: be private, and kept at least two women who fathered 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: his own children, whom he also raped. His name was 32 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: marcell Moziel, and there are many people I used to 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: be close with who still consider him a holy man. 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: In places where Morsiel established his order, if you spoke 35 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: of him or his organization in unflattering terms, or if 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: you deviated from his approved norms and behaviors, you could 37 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: get fired, ostracized, even end up going broke or losing 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: your business. Defying Mosiel and his organization, as it is 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: with any other call to leader with an army of 40 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: zealots at its finger tips, was no joke. He had 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: the backing of the country's politicians, media company owners, and 42 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: millionaires whose wives adored him and entrusted him with their 43 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: children to teach them true Christian values. He married after 44 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: daughters and baptized their grandchildren. His photos adorned all their mantlepieces. 45 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: In their eyes, he could do no wrong. He was treasured. 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: He had to be protected at all costs. So familiar, 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: I understand what Elisa felt after confronting the sick truth 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: about someone you and your whole universe looked up to 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: as a saint throughout your life. When Alisa saw the 50 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: video evidence from Nason's trial, she couldn't ignore the truth anymore. 51 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: All of the things that I had seen and been through, 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: they all started coming back to me. It's like I 53 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: had blocked all of it and I excused it because 54 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: he was my God and he didn't know wrong. I 55 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: couldn't believe that he was, as an apostle of God 56 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: still doing those things. 57 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: The problem is, even though your own blinders may be falling, 58 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: almost everyone around you, everyone you care for still sees 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: this person as holy instead of the perverted, cheets and 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: frauds that they are. 61 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: I had like a little mini breakdown. My church was 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: my life and my life was a lie. My whole life, 63 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: my whole being, everything was a lie. 64 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: But finding out everything you believed and strived for is 65 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: a con is barely the first step in the arduous 66 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: process of untangling yourself from it. You can't stop to 67 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: mourn or lead your wounds because maybe there's rent to pay, 68 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: children to feed, or a job to keep. So you 69 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: pick up the pieces and re engage with the free world, 70 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: where you have to think and decide on your own, 71 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: with no manuals, no priests, no gurus or elders round 72 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: to tell you what's true and what's false. 73 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: It's like going through a divorce. You go through the disbelief, 74 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: you go through, the anger, you go through oh my god, 75 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: it can't be true. And it's every single emotion that 76 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: you go through when you're having a breakup. 77 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: From major life decisions to the most irrelevant choices like 78 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: what to do, eat or how to dress. After you 79 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: leave a cult, your values and beliefs are stripped from you. 80 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: You've become a blank slate and you have to rewrite 81 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: it all alone, unsupported because most of your family and 82 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: close friends have probably chosen to stay. They have chosen 83 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: the cult over you. 84 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 3: Oh I heard that somebody is talking bad about the apostle. 85 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: Don't even eat with him, all with her, because he's 86 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 3: like ebola, you know, are like a virus. Suddenly you 87 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 3: don't have cousins, you not have brothers, you have uncles. 88 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 3: You're alone because you dare to talk bad about the apostle. 89 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: Juel Silva explains the experience to a tea. Life after 90 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: a cult is incredibly lonely because you're basically living in exile, 91 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: no matter how close you physically remain. So now, leaving 92 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: a high control group isn't as simple as walking out 93 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: to the front door and flipping everyone the finger, because 94 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: a cult is not circumscribed to a physical occasion. It's 95 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: an entire lifestyle, belief system, community instead of mind. The 96 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: conditioning of a high control group can take years to 97 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: shake off, always leaving the newly minted Aposta with three 98 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: precious parting gifts, fear, shame, and guilt. But the good 99 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: news is there is life after a cult, and it 100 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: can be wonderful. I'm Roberta Garza and this is our 101 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: last episode of Sacred Scandal SEASM two, Episode twelve, Finding 102 00:06:41,440 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: the Force Within? Is it really possible to know if 103 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: the preacher, the fitness class teacher, the yoga guru, the 104 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: beloved politician, or the self help maiben you or a 105 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: loved one are so taken with, is really a narcissistic 106 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: psychopath cult leader in disguise. Maybe there are certainly a 107 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: number of signs or giveaways that can effectively act as 108 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: red flags. The very first thing to SEUs out is 109 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: how much the group is actually about what they claim 110 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: to be, let's say, about fitness or spirituality or professional success, 111 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: instead of about the founder or leader. Diane ben Scotch, 112 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,559 Speaker 1: the cult expert we've met in previous episodes, explains it better. 113 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 4: There's usually like a mystique around a leader that they 114 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: seem like they are of God, and if other people 115 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 4: start repeating that and looking to them for sacred truth, 116 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 4: then there becomes an environment where you feel like if 117 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 4: you're not experiencing that there's something wrong with you, you're 118 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 4: not looking hard enough within yourself. Their followers think of 119 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 4: them as having the answers, as having the truth, as 120 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 4: being connected to God, and so I think oftentimes they 121 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 4: begin to believe that about themselves. They start thinking of 122 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 4: themselves as godlike, and they don't want to be questioned 123 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 4: by anyone, because they really like to think of themselves 124 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 4: as being the answer to all of life's questions. 125 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: This is called the cult of personality. Most groups will 126 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: lack knowledge or educate their followers on their founders or 127 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: whomever devise their techniques and methods, and that is perfectly normal. 128 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: But if every class gathering or session you attend, you're 129 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: reminded of the greatness of the fearless leader, of how special, 130 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: how much better than the normal human he or she is, 131 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: if there are more tributes and rights around that figure 132 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: than actual skill set development, or if your mates claim 133 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: here or she has supernatural abilities, then you might be 134 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: swerving in the cultish territory. Be really concerned if whenever 135 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: he or she shows up, people so soon giggle or 136 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: show otherwise heightened states of nervousness, anxiety, or euphoria, because 137 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: that is designed to be contagious, like teenagers fainting in 138 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: unison at a rock concert. The main intention is to 139 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: convince you that the group and its leader are greater, 140 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: more important than anything or anyone else. 141 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 4: What happens when you join a high control group later 142 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 4: in life, you're recruited. That means that you have a 143 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 4: loss of your family of origin. This becomes your new family, 144 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 4: and there's a grieving that goes on, but you feel 145 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 4: like you've met your true family. Now. 146 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: Remember how Suchil Martin's aunt used to make her kiss 147 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: the Apostles photo every night, how church members display the 148 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: Apostles portraits prominently in their living spaces. In my school, 149 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: Masiel's mystical gaze adorned every room, right over the blackboard, 150 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: bigger than the Christ on the cross next to him. 151 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: And that's how easy it is for a swindler to 152 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: become a saint. High control groups, at least for a time, 153 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: are very good at hiding their toxicity. They present themselves 154 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: as the opposite of harmful. They are loving, purposeful, and 155 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: embrace new members with warmth and joy, making them feel 156 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: special and wanted. This is exactly what happened when Elissa's 157 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: family found the support they needed to break away from 158 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: her father's alcoholism. It was in l DM that the 159 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: floor is found sobriety through a loving community and a 160 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: clear road to heaven, or so they thought. 161 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: You feel like this was the only place that was 162 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: going to take you to heaven, only through believing the 163 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 2: Apostle of God, Can you go to Heaven? 164 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: Elisa's experience is not exceptional. No sane person just wakes 165 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: up one morning and says, Hey, I think I'm going 166 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: to join a cult. That's why it's so difficult for 167 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: the average change and Joe's to understand how or why 168 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: anyone would fall for this life. Are cult members too 169 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: ignorant to know better? No, it has nothing to do 170 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: with knowledge or intelligence. People get into these groups because 171 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: of emotional vulnerabilities, you know, the ones we all have. 172 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: Joiners are just longing to be better, more spiritual, happier, 173 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: to be part of something meaningful and relevant, because that's 174 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: what cults usually offer. Yes, it's all lies, but at 175 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: the very start it's not exactly obvious. Instead, it sounds comforting, 176 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: self assured, and convincing. Sochel Martin knows this pattern. 177 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 5: Well, that's where the dangers are. Any organization that says 178 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 5: they have all the answers and they tell you how 179 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 5: to live your life, those are red flags. 180 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: Diane ben Scotter further explains how cults manipulate people's fragilities 181 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: to prey on them. 182 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 4: They're usually people that really care about the world, that 183 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 4: care about wanting to make a difference in the world, 184 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 4: that want to be the best person that they can be. 185 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 4: So there are some cults that are personal growth cults, 186 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 4: like Scientology or nxiom or there's a variety of those 187 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 4: kind of cults that attract people who are looking for 188 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: personal growth. And then there's people that feel like they 189 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 4: want to be closer to God, they want to be 190 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 4: more holy, they want a more sacred lifestyle. There's people 191 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 4: who are idealistic and just really want peace on earth 192 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 4: and really want to find people who are trying to 193 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: create peace on earth. All you have to do is 194 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 4: believe in the leader, and that's such a relief. 195 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: As you can see, joiners cannot simply be labeled as 196 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: dumb or gullible. Oftentimes they're good, loving people who are 197 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: hurting or missing something in their lives that they can't 198 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: quite find elsewhere. That's why all the encompassing sense of 199 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: warmth and community calls often showcase in the recruiting acts 200 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: works so well. 201 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 5: I would say that when you grow up in a 202 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 5: broken family, if you find a place or you land 203 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 5: in a place somehow through destiny of life where they 204 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 5: say they give you all the answers and they say 205 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 5: you're they're your only family, or imagine even being born 206 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 5: into that society, that community. 207 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: Soon that belief system becomes foundational to your sense of self. 208 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 4: What happens is that it becomes more than just a 209 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 4: belief system. It becomes your identity. You start to think 210 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 4: that you have found the most meaningful thing in the world, 211 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 4: and that your life has a normal value. 212 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: Now that that's not just talking theory. In the eighties, 213 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: she escaped a high control group as a young woman 214 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: and has dedicated herself to helping people break free from 215 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: them ever since. 216 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 4: I was seventeen years old when I met the Moonies, 217 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 4: and I was idealistic. I was really against the war, 218 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: and I had kind of quit school and was worrying 219 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 4: my family sick. And then suddenly I met this group, 220 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 4: and I thought that the Messiah was on the earth, 221 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 4: and that God had been preparing me to be a 222 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: follower of Christ, and that all of that feeling of 223 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: disconnectedness and loss and confusion about who I was was 224 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 4: traded in for absolute right, self righteousness, for feeling like 225 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 4: I was chosen by God to follow the Messiah. 226 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: The group that enjoined was called the Unification Church, but 227 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: nicknamed the Moonies because of their founder's name, Sun Young Moon. 228 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: They gained widespread popularity in the US in the nineteen seventies, 229 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: partially because of their anti war stunts. 230 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 4: You don't want to give that up. Plus, you have 231 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 4: this community like minded people that are constantly reinforcing the 232 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 4: belief system, and no one wants to give that up 233 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 4: because it feels so good. And so when there's things 234 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 4: that are contradictory to that, it's easy to rationalize because 235 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 4: they're telling you, well, no one else understands. They don't 236 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 4: understand God's will, they don't understand God's way. 237 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: So it should be clear by now that a commentarating 238 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: people who get tangled and sticky Culty spider webs is 239 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: that they are vulnerable. They are in crisis, sometimes in 240 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: desperate need of. 241 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 4: Help, whether they're seeking comfort in a way that they 242 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 4: feel confused about the world around them, or they feel 243 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 4: a loss of community or a loss of purpose in 244 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 4: their life, or they're depressed for whatever reason, or just 245 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 4: looking to use their life in a more valuable way. 246 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 4: Those are just human characteristics. But for a predator who 247 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 4: is looking to control people, they can take advantage of 248 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: those characteristics by offering them easy answers to life's hard questions, 249 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 4: a community to offer them a way to feel better 250 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 4: about themselves. 251 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: Once the kool aid has been fully swallowed, the process 252 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: of isolation begins, and that's when the honeymoon ends, because 253 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: the demands of occult and it's narcissistic overpowering leaders are intense. 254 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: Little by little, the unconditional love and acceptance from before 255 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: may now require you to follow certain rules, change some behaviors, 256 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: or make some sacrifices without questioning any of it, or 257 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: you might lose it all. Is your faith not strong enough? 258 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: Are you not ready? Is your love for the teacher 259 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: or pastor fake? That's what they will start saying to 260 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: you because high control groups only accepts full surrender, and 261 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: that requires you to be completely torn from your previous life, 262 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: to cut all other attachments so that your only allegiance 263 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: remains to the group and especially to its leader. There 264 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: are no rather flags than that. One more on that 265 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: after the break. At this stage, the game of OS 266 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: versus them starts slowly and stealthily. It is not unusual 267 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: that loved ones begin asking why you're spending so much 268 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: time with your new friends, why you have stopped coming 269 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: around or quit your good job, why you have changed 270 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: the way you dress, or any of the other small 271 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: things the cult will gradually ask you to give up 272 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: on their behalf to someone who's starting to grow into 273 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: occult mentality, these concerned questions will often feel like direct 274 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: attacks or accusations, because that's what you would have been 275 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: fed that those people, the others, what do you call 276 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: your friends and family, don't understand your talents, your missions, 277 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: your gifts, that they are dragging you, that you must 278 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: get rid of them in order to reach your full potential. 279 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: Over and over, they would stress that the only people 280 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: who truly understand you are your leaders and brothers in 281 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: the cult, and that's when the abuse starts in earnest, 282 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: because by then you have nowhere left to run. 283 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 4: Isolation is oftentimes a part of a high control group, 284 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 4: and when that happens, you can have absolute control over people. 285 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 4: You control what they eat, control how much they sleep, 286 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 4: how they pray, and they begin to control their own 287 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 4: thoughts and emotions. In this environment, there's us and there's them, 288 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 4: and so you begin to feel like if you go 289 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 4: outside of the group, you don't fit in anymore. There's 290 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 4: like a cognitive dissonance that happens outside of the group 291 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 4: because it becomes so much your entire world, so much 292 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 4: so that it feels when you go home to family 293 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: members that aren't part of the group, you feel like 294 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 4: you don't fit in. You have to get back to 295 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 4: the group where your comfort zone is as soon as possible. 296 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: I remember when I was a younger of fourteen, I 297 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: was convinced by Matielle to leave home and join full 298 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: time what the Order called their consecrated women. Think of 299 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: those as nuns, but their vows were not made to 300 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: the Vatican, or to the Pope or to Masielle's Order alone. 301 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: I felt ecstatic to be chosen directly by this most 302 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: Holy Man, but there was a problem. I had to 303 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: wait until I was an adult, so my parents couldn't 304 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: object to losing another child to his group. So he 305 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: asked me not to tell my family any of it 306 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: because they wouldn't understand God's will as he married a virgin, 307 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: and I did. He ended by instructing me that while 308 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: I waited to turn eighteen, I should dress more modestly, 309 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: stop going out to parties, and to avoid all TV magazines. 310 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: And movies. But it was nineteen eighty and The Empire 311 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: Strikes Back had just been released, So I did the math. 312 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: The next episode of the saga, the Return of the Jedi, 313 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't see the light of day until three or four 314 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: years later. And what if it was too late? What 315 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: if by then I had already surrendered myself, as one 316 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: of my sisters had done before me, to one of 317 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: the communal houses. Masille's women entered, never again to leave 318 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: unattended or unshackled. Elisa recalls a similar moment as a 319 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: child in Sand. 320 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: Then, when I was young, probably about ten years old, 321 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 2: I was in school and all of the girls had 322 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: their earspears and I didn't. And I went to my 323 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 2: dad and I said, I want to get my earspeers. 324 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 2: And he's like, no, mehow we don't do those things. 325 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: It's against God. And I'm like, what why? And so 326 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: he took me to the minister. 327 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: The minister was not on Alisa's side. 328 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: The minister looks down at me and it's like, are 329 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: you a slave? He doesn't come down to my level. 330 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: He looks down at me, So I'm already feeling threatened. 331 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: Then he goes because in the old days. That's how 332 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 2: they identified their slaves. So are you a slave, I'm 333 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 2: like no. Are you an animal? I'm like no? And 334 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: he goes because they pierced the animal's ears and put 335 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 2: a number on them, so they know who owns that 336 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 2: particular animal. So if you're not a slave, and you're 337 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,719 Speaker 2: not an animal, then you don't get your earspeers. You 338 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: see all of these people that have their earspeers, their 339 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 2: slaves to the devil. 340 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: The minister's words rang deep and stayed with Elisa for 341 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: years to come. 342 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: It scared me so much, and so din I was 343 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: going to school looking at my friends, thinking, oh, she's 344 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 2: the slave of the devil. She's a slave of the devil. 345 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: Elisa headed to school every day, where she was surrounded 346 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: by those satanized by her pastors and parents. Ell DM 347 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: made sure the cute ear rings on her favorite teachers 348 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: and on her little friends. Reminded Elisa how everyone outside 349 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: her community was so sinful and corrupt, and how lucky 350 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: she was to be among the apostle's flock. This inflexible 351 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: barrier between us and them, between the so called chosen 352 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: ones and the leftovers out there being presented as a 353 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: blessing or a privilege, and not as a mental lockdown 354 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: is a telltale sign of a cult's manipulation. It was 355 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: very much a part of Mosille's stick when he asked 356 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: me to join his group of women, but in my 357 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: case it involved something much more powerful than a plain 358 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: pair of hearings. I did not obey when the teachers 359 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: at Mozille's school informed me and my classmates that the 360 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: Star Wars movies were new age and thus satanic, and 361 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: that we should not watch them. But I knew that 362 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: if I became one of Nostropaldi's consecrated women, if I 363 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: entered one of those very restricted communities, I would never 364 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: ever be able to catch up on Hans's solo and 365 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: Princess Leiah's next adventure, and that was too much for 366 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: my teenage soul to bear. Earrings. Movies, pants, make up, 367 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: and music may sound like frivolous, unimportant affairs, yet high 368 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: control groups see them as threats to their very survival, 369 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: as they do anything that sparks imagination, self expression, individuality, joy, 370 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: or creativity. Months later, I bailed out of Mosile's plans 371 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: for my salvation. He wasn't happy and accused me of 372 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: being rebellious and selfish. I guess he found my lack 373 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: of faith disturbing. Thirty five years or so later, Star 374 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: Wars creator George Lucas happened to be staying at the 375 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: same small hotel I checked into, in a lovely corner 376 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: of Iceland. I regret not having the courage to tell 377 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: him this story, or to thank him for ultimately saving 378 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: my life. I hope it's clear by now that people 379 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: don't simply enter high control groups because they lack smart 380 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: or cunning. Drinking the kool aid is not a rational decision, 381 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: but an emotional one, rounded in vulnerability, urgency, and crisis. 382 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: And once the cult works their dark magic and people 383 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: are separated from those they love, alienated from their past lives, 384 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: first through seduction and then through fear, guilt, and abuse, 385 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: they have nowhere else to go. Yet, against all odds, 386 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: some people do muster the courage to leave. Once they do, 387 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: one of the first things survivors have to work on 388 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: is recalibrating their minds, fogged by years of neglect, suppression, 389 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: and denial. They might be the ones telling the truth, 390 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: but they will be called liars by the members who 391 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: stay behind. They might want to stop the cult leader's perversion, 392 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: but they are the ones who will be called slots 393 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: and whores by their community for the first time in years. 394 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: They might see clearly, but people will accuse them of 395 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: being crazy, of exaggerating or distorting the facts. That was 396 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 1: the case for Elisa when she tried to help her 397 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: family see the truth behind el a DM's version of 398 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: naissance crimes. 399 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: I didn't say anything to my other siblings for a while, 400 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: and then I said, I don't believe in the Apostle 401 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: of God. He is guilty of the things that he did. 402 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: And I wrote down some of the things that I 403 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: had seen and my siblings they didn't accept what I 404 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 2: was telling them, and they made me feel like a liar. 405 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: Even though Elisa had left the cult, she couldn't shake 406 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: off the trauma that followed her, and her family did 407 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: not make it any easier. 408 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 2: They revictimized me, and it put me back into that 409 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 2: vulnerable state like I was a child again and the 410 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: words of the Apostle of God were coming true because 411 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: nobody was gonna believe me over him. 412 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: I left Myseille's group, my family, and my city over 413 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, but I still remember when I began 414 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: doubting him, the endless sleepless night praying my soul would 415 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: not be done to hell, and the unshakeable anxiety and 416 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: the panic attacks that dragged on for years. I don't 417 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: believe in that hell anymore, but those panic attacks still 418 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: visit me to this day. As Elisa shares, the healing 419 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: might take a lifetime. 420 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 2: I still have different things that I'm working on deprogramming. 421 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: It's not something that's going to happen overnight. It's a process. 422 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 2: I'm still working on that, and I'm still working on myself. 423 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: I'm still working on healing and realizing that that marriage 424 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: that I had to the cult is no longer. 425 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: People who leave cults have to contend with the fact 426 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: that the darknesster trying to leave behind is not gone 427 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: after they depart. It stays alive and well, eating up 428 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: their fellow members. A predatory leader like Nason quaquin Garcia 429 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: can hold disturbing amounts of power cast out in white 430 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: nets before it wins. Nevertheless, when Souchil Martin was told 431 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: Nason had been arrested, she was elated. 432 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 5: We did have tacos that night. We want to go celebrate. 433 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 5: We were all very excited. My husband was ecstatic. 434 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: But as consequential as it was, she knew the arrest 435 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: was only a weakening blow to lledm's powerful organization. 436 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 5: But me particularly, I felt like, no, this is just 437 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 5: one we need to focus on the rest now. 438 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: Nason is currently serving his sixteen year sentence. Temple attendance 439 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: has definitely dropped, but LLEDM has adapted to the challenges. 440 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: They have successfully remade the apostle into a martyr, and 441 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: his designated substitutes firmly ruled the church. 442 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: In his name. 443 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 5: They're very much still powerful within the organization hierarchy, and 444 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 5: that means that they have the ties to the government 445 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 5: and political officials and government officials of Mexico. 446 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: We thought without Nasson, LERDM continues to hold sway over 447 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: their communities with the same iron grip, as if nothing 448 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: had happened. But things did happen, awful things. More on this. 449 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: After the break, religious cults tend to marry each other. 450 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: Mastro Padre's order is not so different from LERDMS. Before 451 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: he died, the Vatican sentenced Marcelle Macielle to a life 452 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: of prayer and penance, conveniently proof about his crimes and 453 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: transgressions only came out after he was buried, in the 454 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: form of three children with two different women for anyone 455 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: to in the math. That's three children too many for 456 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: any forcefully celibate Catholic priest. And yet the organization he 457 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: founded is still alive, diminished maybe, but ruled by the founders, 458 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: very same accomplices and enablers. Because even after these groups 459 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: are revealed in their true ugly faces, many in their 460 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: wake would rather forget those parts ever existed, minimizing the 461 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: pain and dismissing the abuses. But that can't erase the 462 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: fact that people were brutalized and lives were destroyed, and 463 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: not everyone got their happy endings. 464 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 6: Jane Doe four, in her victim impact statement said something 465 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 6: that was really kind of heartbreaking. 466 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 1: That's joy j Editson, lawyer for the Jane does speaking 467 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: on behalf of Jane do. 468 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 6: Four, and it was that of all the things that 469 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 6: she lost, the thing that she was most devastated by 470 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 6: was that she lost her belief in God because that 471 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 6: was what was the most important to her. And now 472 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 6: that she is left with all of her broken pieces, 473 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 6: and now that she's left shattered, she has nowhere to 474 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 6: turn to. 475 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: And some victims lost way more than their joy, their youth, 476 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: their families, for their faith, They lost their lives. Like 477 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: Karim lyone what such a reminds us never found her 478 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: way out from her ledm ordeals. 479 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 5: Got him was not lucky. She put herself out there, 480 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 5: and she went to the authorities, and she did the 481 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,719 Speaker 5: right thing as a citizen. And in the end, she 482 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 5: wasn't listened to. Her voice wasn't heard. She never got 483 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 5: her justice. This piece of she died Samuel, and he 484 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 5: did the most disgusting crimes and committed the most disgusting 485 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 5: crimes upon children and women. And Gottim was one of 486 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 5: these victims, and she was not heard. 487 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: Every day there are people out there trying to break 488 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: free from high control groups and other types of destructive, 489 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: abusive relationships. They weigh the odds, the struggles to come. 490 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: They might feel tired to their bones, and they might 491 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: remember those that didn't make it and maybe think there's 492 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: no way out. But like Elisa shares, there is. 493 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 2: There is life outside of the cult. And everything that 494 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: we were told that our cars would break, our kids 495 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: would get sick, all of those things are not true. 496 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: You can still be happy people are like, if you 497 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,479 Speaker 2: get out of the cult, you're going to be miserable, 498 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: You're gonna be on drugs, you're gonna become an alcoholic. 499 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 2: I'm none of those things. We were always taught good 500 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 2: citizens make good Christians. Well, I'm going to tell you something. 501 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: Good hearts and good people are what make good citizens, 502 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: not Christians, not religion. 503 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: The first danger for regular folks is to assume that, 504 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: as they themselves are good, smart people, these horrors would 505 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: never happen to them. But falling prey to a cult 506 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: can happen to anyone. Sachel Martin knows this firsthand. 507 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 5: Destructive cults they're everywhere, and you don't know you're in 508 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 5: a cult. And that's the danger of what these organizations do. 509 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 5: And so when you destruct the mind, which is what 510 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 5: this leadership of this organization did, the light of the 511 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 5: world to all of us, to all of the people 512 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 5: inside of it. 513 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: There's a reason it takes so long for cult survivors 514 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: to break free, if they ever do so. Just imagine 515 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: the kind of strength a victim has to muster when 516 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: a district attorney or judge asks them to revisit their 517 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: darkest days and give public testimony to expose themselves all 518 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: over again to the hate and harassment they thought was 519 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: behind them, that they might have even managed to avoid. 520 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: Elisa asks us to have a little patience for those 521 00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: still in the path. 522 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: It takes a while for us to get out of 523 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 2: that if we can get out, because there's a lot 524 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: of people that can't get out. It takes a lot 525 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 2: for a person to doubt their faith, to question their faith. 526 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: But just be patient with the person that has been 527 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: in a cult, because it takes a long time to 528 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: heal what was done to them, the different traumas, the 529 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 2: different coortions, the different manipulations that we have gone through. 530 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: It's not going to be something that's held overnight. Because 531 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 2: your patience and your love is needed. You can't leave 532 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: us alone because if we don't have that support, so 533 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: many have lost their lives because they don't have that support. 534 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: And a lot of us we didn't know any better. 535 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: A lot of us thought that this is the way 536 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: that life is, or the life was supposed to be, 537 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: that we were born into this and this was our God. 538 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 2: Please be patient with us. Please understand that we're not 539 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: doing things out of spy or at an evil or 540 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 2: just to be mean that we're depprogramming, but we have 541 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: to do it in our own way and our own time. 542 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: There is hope for those looking to get out from 543 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: a controlling environment, be it l a DM or otherwise. 544 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: There is help. If you're a victim of a cult, 545 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: you are not alone, so Chill. Martin champions a group 546 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: called survivors Org that helps people share resources and build 547 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: critical momentum for activism against sexual predators. There's also a 548 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: wonderful podcast in Spanish called Salidi on Asecta or two 549 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: sisters joyfully recount their journey from LEDM to freedom one 550 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: day at a time. Outside l a DM, Sarah Edmondson, 551 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: an XM survivor, has another podcast called A Little Bit Culty, 552 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: where she and her expert guests explore how people get ensnared, 553 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: how to get out, and how to survive the experience. 554 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: Our resident expert, Diane ben's Cutter, found an Antidote, an 555 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: organization that fights for education and awareness against high control 556 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: groups in public policy, and the Lalage Center in California 557 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: offers meetups and courses centered on coping with the trauma 558 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: left behind by high control groups. And those are just 559 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: a few Life after LDM has been incredibly challenging for 560 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: all the people whose stories you've heard throughout the season 561 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: of Sacred Scandal, that is, all the people who are 562 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: still with us, Some of them are lucky enough to 563 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: be healing and slowly finding their footing. For her part, 564 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: Eliza finally feels empowered enough to make decisions about her 565 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: body without feeling ashamed. She pierced her ears and even 566 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: God at attoo. 567 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 2: I decorated my temple with the tattoo of flower. I 568 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: felt like I was a butterfly because I was just 569 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 2: in this cocoon and had no color. I couldn't look 570 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: to the side or anything like that. But when I 571 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 2: started getting out, I started ripping that cocoon and started 572 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: getting color and started being able to fly. And now 573 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 2: I can fly and have color and be free and beautiful, 574 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 2: and that's how I feel. 575 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: Second Scandala zel Mundo is a production of Exile Content 576 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: Studio in partnership with Iheartsmichael Tura podcast Network, and it's 577 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: hosted by me Robert ta Garza, produced by Sabinn Johnson 578 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 1: with the help of Stella, Emmett, Reynolds Gutierrez and Anna 579 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: Isabel Octavio written by myself with help from Marivel Q. Salasmith. 580 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: Researched by ROBERTA Garza with help from Reynolds Gutierrez. Additionally 581 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: reporting by Florence Second schilest Gaa Garcia. Engineering by Uamendos, 582 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: Hann Samine Jensen. Sound designed by patrickinionis original music by 583 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: Patrick Hart, edited by writer also Rose Reed and marievel 584 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: Kezada Smith. Executive producers are Rose Reed, Carmen graterol Isaac Lee, 585 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: and Nando Villa. Daniel Bautista oversees Audio Exil Content Studio. 586 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are iHeart, ar Gisel Vancez and Arlein Santana. 587 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal was created by Melanie Bartley and Paula Varos. 588 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Mock Music Studio. For more podcasts, go 589 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: to the Higheart Radio app or anywhere you listen to 590 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: your favorite podcasts.