1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Big Big Earnings Week 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: really focus on technology. Some disappointments out there for sure, 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: although Apple kind of maybe saved the day a little 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: bit at the at the end here with some decent numbers. 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: Let's kind of bring it all into perspective tied altogether, 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: We're gonna round table at today with Cameron christ macro 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: strategists with Bloomberg News, plus Punum Goyle, senior e commerce 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: analysts with Bloomberg Intelligence, covers all things retail. Cameron, let's 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: start off with you here, just you know, stepping back 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: from the Microsoft's, the Google's, the metas of the world. 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: Do you still consider or should the market still consider 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: big tech as a driver as a market leader for 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: this global equity market. Well, I think you have to 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: just given the waiting in various indices. I mean, if 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: you look at the SNP or even m s c 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: I Old Country World Index. I mean, who do you have? 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: It's it's the familiar names, uh, most of which are 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: directly or tangentially technology related. I mean, technically Amazon is 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: considered discretionary these days, but I think we all know 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: that they're valued as a as a technology stock. So 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: I think, of course, um, when you're talking about anything 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: but very ephemeral, short term moves, you you have to 28 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: you have to consider the tech sector as as sort 29 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: of the hegemonic driver almost, And when it comes to 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: the tech sector, it's interesting you look at Apple, you 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: look at Amazon to opposite reactions. They're basically Apple canceling 32 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: out Amazon's loss on a points basis. If you look 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: at the SMP five hundred and potam, when you think 34 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: about the Amazon earnings that we've gotten, the wipe out 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: that we're seeing in the stock, what do you think 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: is the bigger issue here? Was it the warning about 37 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: the holiday period or is it what's happening in a 38 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: w S. I think it's a WS more so. We 39 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: we know that holiday will be weaker than it has 40 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: been just because of inventories being high and inflation curving. 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: Consumers fund. But on the A W S front, that 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: was a surprise. Um, really just at the big delta 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: that we saw versus estimates largely as you know, they 44 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: also said that they were exiting the quarter at a 45 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: mid twenties run rate, which is pretty weak considering the 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: thirty one percent that they've been tracking for the past 47 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: four quarters. Cameron, I'd love to get your sense here. 48 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: We're at about halfway through earnings here, any takeaways for 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: you here? I mean, I know the big question for 50 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: a lot of investors is, as I listened to some 51 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: of these conference calls, is kind of the forward guidance 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: and how bad will a recessionary environment be for some 53 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 1: of these businesses? What? What? What have you learned so far? Yeah, 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean the there's a couple of a couple of 55 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: things to unpack. Uh, you know, there's the the actual 56 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: earnings we've seen relative to expectation. I mean, they've beaten, 57 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: but they always beat, right, I mean, under promise and 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: over deliver is sort of the business model of Wall Street. Um, 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: the magnitude of surprise has been the more or less 60 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: the slowest m on both the top and bottom line 61 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: basis since the advent of COVID, so that probably tells 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: us something. UH. I I do think that forward looking 63 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: UH guidance is significant UM, and I take what was 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: take on board what we said about a WS. But 65 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: the fact is is that Amazon guidance UH for the 66 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: fourth quarter puts its overall year on your revenue growth 67 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: UH the second lowest in the company's history UH less 68 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: than five percent. If you take the midpoint of the 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: guidance range UM, that's less than inflation UM. And that's 70 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: pretty significant because we're these companies at the top of 71 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: the pyramid have valuations that are consistent with secular growth. 72 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: And I think what Amazon and Meta in particular are 73 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: saying is that these companies are actually significantly exposed to 74 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: cyclical vulnerability. And the question we have to ask is 75 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: should these companies have a secular valuation premium if they're 76 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: turning into more secularly cyclically vulnerable companies. I think that 77 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: you can make a good argument that that no, there 78 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: there's some of this premium that has been given to 79 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: these firms over the last ten years maybe should should 80 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: be withdrawn. Well, there's some key differences between Meta and Amazon, 81 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: one of them being that Meta is just funneling billions 82 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: of dollars into the metaverse. I am so excited to 83 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: see how that turns out. Amazon, on the other hand, 84 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: PUNA is really looking at cutting costs here. What magnitude 85 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: are we talking about and where? Sure, the costs are 86 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: largely going to be cut on the retail side, um 87 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: really when you look at technology as well as investments 88 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: in fulfillment, logistics, transputation. So we heard from them that 89 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: they were expected to cut a billion and the one 90 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: point five billion dollars from two Q to three Q. 91 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: They only cut one billion, largely because they couldn't cut 92 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: the costs and their productivity due to fulfilling demand for 93 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 1: the additional prime day sales and early acts of sales 94 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: that they had in three Q and four Q. UM. 95 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: It's going to be hard for them to cut costs. 96 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: It will not come easy. They're going to have to 97 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: look at some of their strategic initiatives as well as 98 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: some of those experimental initiatives that they have to really 99 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: um expand those margins. But at the end of the day, 100 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: the margins are driven by a w S seven more 101 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: than seventy of the margins on an manual basis, or 102 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: the profits, I should say come from it up us 103 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: and in the latest quarter three Q over a hundred percent. 104 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,679 Speaker 1: So we need to see those a w S margins 105 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: extand again, and we think they will. It'll just be 106 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: a matter of time. The next few quarters are challenging, 107 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: but a WS does have potential to expand again, both 108 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: from revenue and a margin standpoint. All right, put him 109 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: great stuff as always, put him boil. She's a senior 110 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: retail analysts Bloomberg Intelligence covering all the e commerce uh 111 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: stuff as well. She's been there since the beginning of 112 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: that evolution in retail. Plus Camraon Christ macro strategists with 113 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News, giving us kind of just a holistic view 114 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: of here of what we've seen from these tech earnings. UM, 115 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: some disappointments kind of across the board, maybe the exception 116 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: of Apple, but according to Camera, no reason to think 117 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: that they will no longer be market leaders, just given 118 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: their propensity and their big size in the indexes. Said Oakley. 119 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: He's a founder managing partner to Oxbell Advisors. We've talked 120 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: to him for a long time. He's down in Austin, Texas, 121 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: US UM, but we've got them in our studio today 122 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: for the first time ever. How cool is that? Ted? 123 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us here. Um, you know, 124 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. We've we're coming through earnings here. I 125 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: got a market that's down, my fixed income portfolios down 126 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: double digits. What do I do from here? Is this 127 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: the bottom? Can I start just loading in some stocks 128 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: and bonds here? Well, I would say, Well, I would 129 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: not do that. I think, Uh, I think what what 130 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: the Fed has given you is a little by time 131 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: with the one in one year and maybe eighteen month 132 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: treasury at four and a half percent, now you can 133 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: afford to hold it, you know. And somebody tells me, now, hey, 134 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: I can get a five percent dividend on something. I said, 135 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: wait a minute, how about four and a half on 136 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: a treasury? We have no risk on it? And so 137 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: I think that's what's going on. But I wouldn't step 138 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: into that. We really feel like this has probably two 139 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: or three quarters to go, maybe a little longer. Well, 140 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: explain that timeline. What's going to happen in these two 141 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: to three quarters. Are you waiting for the Federals or 142 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: to take their foot off the gas a little bit? Well, Katie, 143 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: they could, but I think people if they look at history, 144 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: it always goes to show the market keeps on going down. 145 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: But here's why. For us, we think that earnings, if 146 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: you look at deceleration, they're up, but it's been really 147 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: decelerating now for four quarters in a row. We think 148 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: that's going to continue into negative territory over the next 149 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: three quarters. And as that happens, I think people have 150 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: to readjust the level of what they're willing to pay 151 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: for stocks. You know they talk about multiples, Well, the 152 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: multiple is going gonna go up because your earnings are 153 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: gonna need to go down, and I think they forget 154 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: to factor that in here. All right, Ted, you're from Texas. 155 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: Texas Tech was your underground. I'm just gonna profile you, 156 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: Ted and assume that you have a call on oil, 157 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: on energy, I got w TR crew to oil about 158 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: eighty eight dollars a barrel. Here. What's your calling oil? 159 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: And what's what are your I know you're good friends 160 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: when you're sitting around chatting down in Texas, you're talking oil. 161 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: What's the call there? Well, you know oil companies can 162 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: make money at eight and they can make money at eight, 163 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: so you know, we own uh energy one production companies 164 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: on pipelines that sort of thing too. But what's happening is, 165 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: you know, the large companies really have cut so far 166 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: back on capex so that it's changed the industry industry, 167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: and it has helped the independence quite a bit. I 168 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: think to do more. But for us, if you just 169 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: look out over the next two years, we think it 170 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: moves higher over time. Um, you know, we're we're getting 171 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: to a point where it's supply to man is is 172 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: fairly equal. So uh and I understand it. And by 173 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: the way, I'm all for taking care of that, you know, 174 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: the environment of green I really am. I just think 175 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: the timeline is all a bit so that's that's where 176 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: I think. So I think it it does go higher. 177 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: The only thing would would thwart it in the short run, 178 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: which we think could happen, by the way, is if 179 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: your economy is slow enough all over the world, there 180 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: will be a short period in there three to six 181 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: months where oil can can foll back. Something we'll see. 182 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: And if we think about the energy sector for so 183 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: long it was winning by so much. When you translate 184 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: that oil call into the stock market, has the energy 185 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: trade run its course? You know, Kedy probably has to 186 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: a degree. I think you're you're onto something there. I 187 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: think a lot of people really focused on it, and 188 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: they were too they had too much oil and their portfolios, 189 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: particularly on the professional side. And what's happening if you 190 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: look at the companies, they've sort of been trading those 191 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: highs now for you know, they had a high, they 192 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: fell off, came back, but they haven't made significant new 193 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: highs here. And so I think you, I think you 194 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: you could be very right on that. It ted You've 195 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: You've had a heck of a career here founding Oxbow Advisors. Uh, 196 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: you've written nine books. You're also the chairman emeritus and 197 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: founder of Foster Angels of South Texas, the largest foster 198 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: child foundation in South Texas. Talk to us about that, 199 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: how's it, how's the environment down there as it relates 200 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: to foster care and things like that, because there's always 201 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: so much discussion. We hear in York, we hear about 202 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: the border and all those types of things. What's it 203 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: really like feeds boots on the ground in South Texas well, 204 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: we have to the two foundations are both the same side. 205 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: There two separate foundations, but we also did Foster Angels 206 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: of Central Texas, which is out of Austin. So between 207 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: the two we cover about sixty five counties in Texas. 208 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: And but you know, having done that, have really helped 209 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: foster children for twenty five years. Our problem is is 210 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: that since their wards of the state, foster children are 211 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: unfortunately out of sight and so you you can't get 212 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: people to understand really apply to a foster child and 213 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: what we do at Foster Angeles and we try to 214 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: give them things very quickly within forty eight hours that 215 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: will help their staff to esteem if they want something. 216 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: But the problem in the state, to answer your question, 217 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: is we have a lot of people who don't understand 218 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: the system. They don't pay the people in the system, 219 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: the CPS any money they have about at turnover rate 220 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: if you can imagine, and so uh, everything compounds on itself, 221 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: and so you have the problem with foster families. We 222 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: don't have near enough and part of the ones we 223 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: do have are actually not that good. Who have a 224 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: lot of great ones, don't get me wrong, but a 225 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: lot of them just do it for the money. And 226 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: then you have a lot of CPS workers that it's 227 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: a tough job and that's just a turnover. We have 228 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: those two things going on. Then they've had a lawsuit 229 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: from UM that I don't agree with it necessarily, but 230 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: what's happened is it's really put a lot of pressure 231 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: on the system because they am to respond to lawsuit 232 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: instead of helping instead of helping children. So it sounds 233 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: like a lot of red tape like we have here 234 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: and you have in Texas and every state. And I 235 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: am very familiar with the New York's floor is all 236 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: the big state, right California. We all have the same problem. 237 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: You have the same problem here too. All right, well, 238 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: we appreciate you doing all anything you can do to 239 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: help there. That that's great stuff. Ted Oakley, Founder and 240 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: managing partner Oxbow Advisers. I want to get to rate 241 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: the our next guest because she is in studio. So 242 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: that's two guests in a row in studio. These are 243 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: folks that we've talked to before, but we have them 244 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: in the studio. Solday, it's a Friday. There's no Bloomberg 245 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: employees here today, but other folks are coming in. Allison. 246 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: Right now, our CEO of Seventh Generation joins us in 247 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Allison, thanks so much for 248 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: joining us. Tell us just give us the overview what 249 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: seventh generation is? What are you guys up to? Yeah, first, 250 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. It's great to 251 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: see you all. Yeah, and a little bit about seven generations. 252 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: So we are a household cleaning company that focuses on 253 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: our mission of transforming the world into a healthy, sustainable, 254 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: and equitable place for the next seven generations. So yeah, like, 255 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: no small goals for us. So I give us a 256 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: sense of kind of like some of your products, who 257 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: you do business with, how you get your products at 258 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: here in the marketplace. Yeah, great, So I think you 259 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: will likely see us walking down any grocery store aisle, 260 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: Target aisle on Amazon dot Com, Walmart aisle in the 261 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: categories of laundry, detergent, household cleaners, and dish products and so. Um. 262 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: We really have distribution in you know, most everyday stores. Um, 263 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: and so we're we're really part of everyone's households. This 264 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Radio. So I have to ask you about 265 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: the supply chain it's always been talking about for two years. 266 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: Tell us how the past two years have been for 267 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: you in terms of managing that. Oh, my goodness, it's 268 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: been a wild ride. So UM we are we do 269 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: operate in the categories of cleaning and paper products. So 270 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: you know, over the course of we saw record growth 271 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: behind those products and record inability to meet the demand 272 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: of both our retailers and our consumers. And so that 273 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: was a pretty wild ride for us to just really 274 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: make sure that we could deliver on what consumers and 275 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: retailers were asking us for UM And then on the 276 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: other side of it, I think it has been a 277 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: combination of both figuring out how consumers are going to 278 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: be cleaning UM in today's world, and then also making 279 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: sure that we have a supply chain that is future 280 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: fit for this type of volatility, because I will tell 281 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: you that even today, while the demand is not as 282 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: high as it was, I think we're still working on 283 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: back tracking a lot of the supply chain decisions and 284 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: retrofitting our supply chain to make sure that we can 285 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: can meet the day to day demands. So how did 286 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: your business and how did demand for your products kind 287 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: of evolved during the pandemic, Because it seemed like for 288 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: a while there we were cleaning everything, including the groceries 289 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: we brought home from the supermarket and then leave them outside. 290 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: God what we didn't know. Amazing, But anyway, here we are. 291 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: How did that impact your business? Yeah? Sure, so I think, 292 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: like like our our peers in the category, I think 293 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: we just saw unprecedented demand for anything that cleans, and 294 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: so we do operate in the disinfecting cleaning category, So 295 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: we do create a line of products that are UM 296 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: that killed of germs, and so we really saw that 297 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: range of products UM flying off the shelves as soon 298 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: as literally as soon as they were set UM. So 299 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: you know, it was really it was really challenging for 300 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: us to track how high is high and bring us 301 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: to now and bring us into the future. You know, 302 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned how people clean have has changed. How are 303 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: you adapting to that and what trends have you noticed? Yeah, 304 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: so there's there's kind of two big things that are 305 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: emerging in our business right now. So one, I think 306 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: UM consumers first of all, are still sitting on quite 307 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: a bit of product that they bought, and so I think, UM, 308 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: we're still working through the tail end of product on hand. UM. 309 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: They're also thinking about cleaning differently. I think the role 310 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: of efficacy in what is clean has become much more prevalent. 311 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: Given our conversations around germs and safety even past COVID, Right, So, 312 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of things happening in the 313 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: news now from a health perspective. Um this on top 314 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: of the fact that we are a sustainable business, right, 315 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: so we really focus on the environmental aspect of the 316 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: products that we make. And the challenging thing right now 317 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: is that there's some very real concerns for the U. 318 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: S consumer between financial insecurity, UM inflation, or health and safety. 319 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: And so we are seeing the environment slip a little 320 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: bit from what's the top of mind for consumers in 321 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: their day to day and so we've really had to pivot, right. So, 322 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we're working on 323 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: as a team is how do we make sure our 324 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: communication is super sharp from an efficacy perspective, so we 325 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: work as well as our conventional counterparts, So how do 326 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: we make that point really clear? And then also how 327 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: do we dial up the urgency around the environmental concerns 328 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: like the earth is burning, we must do something about it, 329 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: and so how can we just make sure that stays 330 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: top of mind. You mentioned inflation. Uh, it seems like 331 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: we just we're getting through a big earning cycle here 332 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: we're hearing from a lot of companies report earnings in 333 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: their inflation is right there. How has it impacted your business? Yeah, so, 334 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: I think we certainly have not been immune to a 335 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: lot of the challenges that most companies are facing in 336 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: terms of rising costs for materials, and so we, like 337 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: the categories, have had to adjust our pricing. But the 338 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: one thing that I'm super proud to talk about is 339 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: the fact that you know where we make our biggest 340 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: investment is in our product So we use a hunt 341 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: as much as plant based materials as we can, up 342 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: to a hundred percent, and most of our products we 343 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: also focus on using as much better plastic as we can, 344 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: so we use a hundred percent post consumer recycled plastic 345 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: in our packaging. UM and so those are expensive right there, 346 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: are expensive before the pandemic. Right. It's the quality that 347 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: we're investment that we're making, and so the thing that 348 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: we've had to really work for is how do we 349 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: make sure that we maintain committed to that quality of ingredient, 350 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: to that equality of environmental standard and make adjustments around that. UM. 351 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: So I think we really focus as a team to 352 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: say we have to keep the quality of the product 353 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: intact during this time, to what degree have you passed 354 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: on those higher costs? How much have you raised prices? Yeah, 355 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: so it really does vary by category, right, So I think, um, 356 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: it depends on the sub segment that you're looking at. 357 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: But I think we do our absolute best to minimize 358 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: the amount that we pass on. But at the end 359 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: of the day, I need to make sure that this 360 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 1: financial model continues to make a sense. So UM as 361 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: a company, we have certainly made it our priority to 362 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: ensure that sustainable products maintain as much accessibility from a 363 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: price point as possible. So one of our biggest priorities 364 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: is dispelling the myth that natural products have to be 365 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: more expensive. Um. So, as a business, we always work 366 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: to make sure that we keep our pricing as accessible 367 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: as we can. But I think that you know that's 368 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: really been tested during these times. Are you based? We are, 369 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: and every company that we talked to for the last 370 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: boy two and a half years site labor as a challenge. 371 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: What's it like in Burlington, Vermont and the other places 372 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: maybe where you operate? Yeah, great, so I think, um, 373 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: you know, actually, one of the biggest changes that we've 374 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: made from a working perspective UM as well. Our headquarters 375 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: is based in Burlington, Vermont. We're really opening up a 376 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: wide net of remote working for our company. So we're 377 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: casting a wide net to make sure that we get 378 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, the most amazing talent into our company, no 379 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: longer letting our headquarter location dictate that. And so it's 380 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: actually been a great way for us to really rethink 381 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: talent strategy. We've got I've got a hundred um. But 382 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: remember we are owned by Unilever, so I think there's 383 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: a much larger ecosystem that supports us. So UM, I 384 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: like to think that there's millions of people out there 385 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: working for us. Alison, thank you so much for joining us. 386 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: Allison written now our CEO of seventh Generation joining us 387 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: live in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio, which we appreciate 388 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: making a trip down from Burlington and Yorth, home of 389 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: the University of Vermont cat amounts. How about that? My 390 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: knowledge is my knowledge is just all over the past, 391 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: worthless trivia. I've got it. It's a big oil companies 392 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: reporting um some numbers, and boy, when those guys make money, 393 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: they make a lot. Yeah. So I mean, you know, 394 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: when we talk big energy. When we talk big oil. 395 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: We talked to Fernando Valet. He's a senior oil and 396 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: gas analyst at Bloomberg intellig just another guest of ours 397 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. I don't know what's 398 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: going on to it. I think we're being punked. Are 399 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: we giving something out at the door or something to 400 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: get we haven't gotten waiting for. Fernando's talked to us 401 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: about Chevron, talked us about Exxon. I mean, I gotta 402 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: assume at eighty eight bucks a barrel, they're making some 403 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: money here. Yeah, and they actually made some money because 404 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: there's a catch up. Usually contracts for lerg loqual Financial 405 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: Gas lag anywhere between three or six months, so they're 406 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: really getting into that peak of the oil price from 407 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,479 Speaker 1: the second quarter on the l n G side, and 408 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: that's probably going to last until the fourth quarter. And 409 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: this is a reminder, cutter gas. It's Excellent's best asset 410 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: by far at points it contributes as much income, so 411 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: they're very exposed to that, and it explains the record 412 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: profits in third the third quarter. Okay, so the superlatives 413 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: here are pretty amazing. Excen highest profit and it's a 414 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty two year history. Yeah, I'm reading a 415 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News story right in front of me. Chevron almost 416 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: almost second past quarterly result. Ever, I'm gonna be pessimistic. 417 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: When when does the boom time's ends? This can't last forever, Well, 418 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: it can't, but it can get worse actually before it 419 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: gets better. I think in the short term, you're correct. 420 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: There might be some weakness we saw obviously towards the 421 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: end of the third quarter and start now the fourth quarter, 422 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: weakness in oil prices. But then refining margins have taken 423 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: off again, especially led by diesel. We have an article 424 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: out talking about how diesel shortages are going to be 425 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: crippling to the East coast and UH and that will 426 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: benefit a lot of the refiners UM and and their 427 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: margins are going to continue to creep higher in the 428 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: fourth quarter, and we're thinking to the first quarter. But 429 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: even if we go to a little bit lower and 430 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: we are about down from the highs and the second 431 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: quarter for Brent UH, we still think they generate a 432 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: significant excess cash flow. And the cash balance for Excell 433 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: now's the thirty billion dollars, and we think even if 434 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: it's a little bit lower, they still have to find 435 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: a home for those uh dollars because their net debt 436 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: is almost to net cash. So I mean, I'm just 437 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: looking at Chevron Chevron US equity. Then I go f 438 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: a function financial analysis. I mean, twelve billion of cash, 439 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: twenty six billion of debt. You know, the next couple 440 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: of years, thirty five billion in free cash flow each year. 441 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: Why aren't these guys doing two things? Drilling more holes 442 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: in the ground for more supply, building more refineries so 443 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: we don't have those diesel shortages in the Northeast. Not 444 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: that I drive a diesel vehicle, that's Matt Miller's game. 445 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: But are they investing back into their businesses? Well, but 446 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: you do eat food that takes that diesel, and you 447 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: buy from Amazon, who uses that diesel as well, so 448 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: it's important for you as well. Uh, They're well, refineries 449 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: are just impossible to build in the US in the 450 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: current environmental climate and regulatory climate. Payback is very long 451 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: and you need to have some assurances that you're actually 452 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: going to be able to continue producing for fifteen to 453 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: thirty years, and we're just not there today. Uh So 454 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: we don't expect those to be built. Um in the 455 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: Middle Eastern Asia really where we're seeing a confinery capacity 456 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: on the on the upstream side, we agree, and we 457 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: think will mark yet another increase in spending from these guys. Uh, 458 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: we haven't seen a lot of exploration. We think exploration 459 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: will come back strong from three on deep water. Exxon 460 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: made more discoveries out in Guiana, which is a burgeoning 461 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: oil province there for them. Have you ever been down 462 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: on an oil rigging? Uh? Yeah, I've been to a 463 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: couple in Brazil back in because you're out in the 464 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere on this rig offshore. And I've been 465 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: in the I've been in the middle of the Amazon 466 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: as well, on an onshore rig in the middle of 467 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: the Amazon. Rang. I don't think I would love that. 468 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: Maybe in the Amazon, I don't. I would climbing the 469 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: stairs on the side of a boat in the water. 470 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting. You have to climb with your hands. 471 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: It's oh my god. I would probably panic. Is peak oil? 472 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: Is that still a thing? I don't. We should talk 473 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: about it two or three or four years ago. I 474 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: think we need more oil, don't we. Well, that's our belief, 475 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: and you know, contrary to a contrary to the international 476 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: energy agencies forecast or we think we're still going to 477 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: to to higher levels over the next several years. If 478 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: you look at emerging markets, there are the main drivers 479 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: of oil demand growth. Uh, and we haven't really found 480 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: a solution for or. They're grit issues for their consumption 481 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: and in order for them to improve their quality of life, 482 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: they need to consume more energy and right now that 483 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: has to be fossil fuels. There are the alternatives. Aren't 484 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: enough to sustain an improvement in life for five billion people? 485 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: Can let me ask you a question. Can the world 486 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: exist without Russian energy? Yes? But not without Russian energy 487 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: and without seeing growth from other regions. We have a 488 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: lot of resources in Canada, we have a lot of 489 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: resources in Venezuela. We have a lot of resources in 490 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: the US, but they need to be developed. Can the 491 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: world exists this winter without Russian energy? Yes, but cartailing 492 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: a lot of industrial activities, So you're going to have 493 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: to prioritize safety over the economy. And I think that's 494 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: what Europe has already done. That's how we got tomentary 495 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: fill was by cartailing economic activity OPEC plus How powerful 496 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: is it today relative to maybe the past? I think 497 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: especially Saudi and the u A are extremely power powerful 498 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: and they know uh, they know that, uh, and their 499 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: comments around Saudi first are really uh indicative of that. Um. 500 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: We have given them some of that power by moving 501 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: offshoring energy production and energy security. So I think it 502 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: bhoos us to take some of that back and and 503 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: really look at North America as a source of clean 504 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: energy because it can be the cardboard, uh, the carboards, 505 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: the carbonized and improved, and we have some of the 506 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: more strict environmental rules compared to other energy producers out 507 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: in there. All right, good stuff, as always went back. 508 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: I could talk energy all day. It's just like it's 509 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: a global issue. It's a geopolitical issue. It's just our 510 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: good friends down to Texas and Oklahoma issue lots of 511 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: stuff there. So Fernando Valet he does that for us. Uh. 512 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: He gets paid to do that for us, believe it 513 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: or not, climbing up on ships and going out the 514 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: oil rigs in the middle of the ocean. I mean, 515 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: who knows, but he does that for Bloomberg Intelligence and 516 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: we appreciate it. Again. W t I crude oil it's 517 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: off a little bit today, a one point three, just 518 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: under eighty eight dollars in barrel it. This is a 519 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: treat for me, folks. Felix Dolett is in our studio 520 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: and Katie another in studio. Guests, something's in the water today. 521 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: I don't know everybody's coming into the student they want 522 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: to be in our presence. I guess it might be 523 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: the last lunch here at Bloomberg ever. So Felix do 524 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: that editor for Bloomberg News. Um. He's also the editor 525 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: of the Bloomberg Entertainment vertical screen Time. You can find 526 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: that on Bloomberg dot com. But he's got a big 527 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: take story and we love the big take stories, and 528 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: this one's really right down my alley. So I turned 529 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: to it right away on the train coming in, talking 530 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: about HBO and Netflix, and it's really goes to the 531 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: HBO story. Because Felix has got a new book out. 532 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: It's coming out in just days. It's called It's Not 533 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: TV The Spectacular Rise, Revolution and Future of HBO, which 534 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: I cannot read, wait to read because I was there 535 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: kind of ground zero during all that stuff at time 536 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: Warner really cool stuff. So I Feelix, thanks so much 537 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: for coming in our studio here talk to us about 538 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: kind of what you found in your deep reporting of 539 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: the history of HBO. Yeah, I mean it's fifty years. 540 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: Incredible impact that HBO has had on uh TV, revolutionized comedy, 541 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: drama documentaries. Um and uh this is this piece for 542 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: the big take was you know, the first extra from 543 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: the book. Uh. You know, HBO is the protagonist of 544 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: our book, but we really kind of developed Netflix as 545 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: the antagonist because I think there's such fascinating parallels and 546 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: contrast between these two companies. Um and you know we 547 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: really dug into that also. UM and this is this 548 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: exert focus is really on two thousand ten, two thousand 549 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: and eleven, during the time when they went from being 550 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: you know, copasetic business partners in the era too suddenly 551 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: during the switch to streaming, all of a sudden, realizing 552 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: we're going to be huge intense rivals. Who would you 553 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: say is winning To ask a very simple question, I 554 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: think Netflix has a huge head start, especially if you 555 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: look overseas. I mean, one interesting thing about HBO is 556 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: for all the incredible branding that they've done with HBO 557 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: over the years, where everything was about the HBO brand, 558 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: premium cable. You know, you're paying Actra for this. Um 559 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: all the shows feeding into that. Uh, you know, overseas 560 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: they did kind of the opposite, so um, you know, 561 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: overseas it was all about profit margins and licensing their 562 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: shows to other networks. So the HBO brand does not 563 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: actually have a huge amount of resonance outside the United States. 564 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: And now as the global you know, the streaming wars 565 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: are going global, I think that's where you see Netflix 566 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: having this incredible advantage. You know, I think about the 567 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: early days of HBO, and it was just so revolutionary 568 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: with Jeff Bucas did there because big budgets. Okay for 569 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: theatrical film, I get it, and you get a certain 570 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: quality of that. You don't get that on TV. He 571 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: didn't get that on cable. But all of a sudden, 572 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: they put serious money behind some of these um series 573 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: and I just watch for the first time after twenty years, 574 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: The Wire, and that was really the series that changed 575 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: the entire ballgame what could be on the small screen. Yeah, 576 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: I mean they made a big switch in the mid 577 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: nineties where you know, the early HBO series were very 578 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: cheap looking. You know, if you go back and look 579 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: at Tanner eighty eight or even Larry Sanders, which is 580 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: an incredible show, but they didn't put a lot of 581 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: money on the screen. Then it was you know, From 582 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: the Earth to the Moon, which was a mini series 583 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks and Brian Grazer were doing. They said, you know, 584 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: if you're going to do this mini series on HBO, 585 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: it has to have real special effects. You guys cannot 586 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: cheap out. And so yeah, Jeff Buchaus at the time 587 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: as CEO, said, you know what, we are going to 588 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: put a huge amount of money in here. We're gonna 589 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: move to a more theatrical model where we'll spend a 590 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: lot of money up front and then we'll figure out 591 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: ways to try and monetize on the back end. And 592 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: as it happened, that was also the period of time 593 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: where direct TV was coming in to play. They were 594 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: getting an extra money from direct TV, and also DVDs 595 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: were also hitting. And it turns out that those series 596 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: that they created in the late nineties and early two thousands, 597 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: Sex in the City, The Sopranos, six Ft Under the Wire, 598 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: incredible series, an incredible run they had, and not only that, 599 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: pulling a lot of subscribers, they could also take those 600 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: shows and they remember those box that's they used to 601 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: make a DVD box that those things were like pure gold, 602 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, by like one season the Sopranos was like 603 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars or something. It was absurd, but it 604 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: was a great extra revenue stream that they could just 605 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: continue to plow into making their shows look, you know, 606 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: more like theatrical productions than anything else on TV. I 607 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: gotta say, I haven't seen The Wire yet. I need 608 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: to you do again. I just it was a twenty 609 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: year anniversary and I said, boy, I've always said to myself, 610 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: I need to watch that. So I started. You can 611 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: now stream and binge it all the stuff that d 612 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: to do, and it was awesome. Yeah, yeah, I have 613 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: seen the Sopranos, I will say that. But Felix, so 614 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: the big take today. It's an excerpt from your book, 615 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: which is coming out next week, I believe remember on 616 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: November one, sorry, right after Halloween. So the I was 617 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: going to say, headline the title of your book, it's 618 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: not TV. It's a Spectacular Rise, Revolution and Future of HBO. 619 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the future. Does it look like it 620 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: looks pretty good right now? I think that, Um, you know, 621 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: three years ago when we started the book and A 622 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: T and T was taking Warner Media very slow, very 623 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: classic magazine writer. You gotta yeah, it looked, you know, 624 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: people were saying, oh, is this is this going to 625 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: be the end of HBO. What's going to happen? Um. 626 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: HBO has had an incredible strong two thousand one, two thousand, 627 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: twenty two. You think about you know, the White Lotus succession, 628 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: Mayor of Easton um and just this year with the 629 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: Game of Throne sequel House of the Dragon, which has 630 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: probably been the biggest thing in TV uple months. They're 631 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: doing great. You know, Discovery has come in a T 632 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: and T spun spun off Warner Media. They have new 633 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 1: owners with Discovery. I think David Zaslav is a big 634 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: supporter of the brand. UM. So, actually HBO is doing 635 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: great and the method that they kind of perfected back 636 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: in the eighties, you know, late eighties, nineties, two thousands, 637 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: still very powerful, still a great way of doing television. 638 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of competition. Like I used to think, 639 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: you know that the story was in Hollywood. If you 640 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: really want to do something really high quality, you go 641 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: to HBO. Now I've got Ted Surrandos and Netflix writing 642 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: huge checks. I've got lots of other I got Amazon, 643 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: appleple So how do they adapt? I guess they've had 644 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: to adjust because you're right, in the old days, they 645 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: could outspend everybody if they wanted a project. They just 646 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: you know, we have this thing in the book called 647 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: the HBO shrug, which was like, you know, we were 648 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: gonna pay eighty million dollars for Banded Brothers, Well, we'll 649 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: spend a hundred million. That's fine, And they didn't have 650 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: to worry about it, and that was a huge advantage. 651 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: I think they've adjusted in recent years because really, when 652 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,439 Speaker 1: Netflix came along and odd into programming in a big 653 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: way over the past decade, they kind of stole that 654 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: position in the marketplace from HBO because you know, the 655 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: paradigm of tech investing, it's been all about growth, hasn't 656 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: been about profits, and that positioned Netflix to really do 657 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: the same thing to HBO that HBO used to do 658 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: to everybody else, which was, like, you know, in the 659 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: Expert in the Big Tape, we talk about Netflix swooping 660 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: in and buying House of Cards, which was like their 661 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: first big bed on the original program, and they offered 662 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars two seasons without seeing a pilot 663 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: it's crazy stuff, it's fun stuff. This is gonna be 664 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 1: a great book. Felix, do you let editor Bloomberg News. 665 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: He's got a new book coming out next week, which 666 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy. I'm not gonna take one of the 667 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: ones they have around here. It's entitled It's Not TV 668 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: The Spectacular Rise Revolution in Future of HBO. Thanks for 669 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and 670 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform 671 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt 672 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: Miller seventy three, and I'm fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter 673 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch 674 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,959 Speaker 1: us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio