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Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio. It's the big Take. I'm

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Speaker 1: West Cassova today what comes next for Donald Trump. There's

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Speaker 1: been an avalanche of news coverage and what it means

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Speaker 1: analysis about Donald Trump's indictment in New York on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: A former president has been indicted. Donald Trump's lawyer says

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Speaker 1: he is expected to be arraigned on charges as early

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Speaker 1: as Tuesday. A grand jury in Manhattan decided there was

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Speaker 1: enough evidence to proceed with a case against him for

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Speaker 1: directing hush money payments to a porn star during his

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen campaign. It's the first indictment against Trump, but

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the last, and it might not even be

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Speaker 1: the one that ultimately poses the greatest league peril for

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Speaker 1: the former president. Listen, there are probes into Trump's possible

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Speaker 1: incitement of the January six protesters. There's an investigation of

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Speaker 1: his handling of classified material found at Mara Lago. So really,

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Speaker 1: however this plays out, there could be other indictments or

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Speaker 1: legal setbacks coming ahead for the president. All of that

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Speaker 1: will believe. So today we look beyond that case to

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Speaker 1: assess the other ongoing criminal investigations and civil cases involving Trump.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Legal correspondence Zoe Tillman and Eric Larson have been

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Speaker 1: tracking them all where they stand, how serious they are,

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Speaker 1: and what to expect in the weeks and months ahead. Zoe,

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Speaker 1: everyone is understandably talking about the Trump indictment, but there

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Speaker 1: are many other investigations related to the former president that

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Speaker 1: are still underway. Start by just telling us what is

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Speaker 1: the next one that you're really looking at. I think

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Speaker 1: that's the million dollar question, because we don't know. And

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Speaker 1: for the past few months it sort of felt like,

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Speaker 1: you know, one week, all the attention was on the

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Speaker 1: investigation in Georgia, where Trump is under investigation for you

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Speaker 1: did he commit state crimes in connection with trying to

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Speaker 1: undo President Bines win in the twenty twenty election, And

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Speaker 1: then you know, the next week it moves over to Washington,

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Speaker 1: where there is a Justice Department Special Counsel Jack Smith,

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Speaker 1: who is overseeing two separate investigations surrounding Trump. One also

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Speaker 1: related to January sixth, and whether there were any federal

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Speaker 1: crimes committed across the country by Trump and his supporters,

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Speaker 1: and then also into whether Trump or anyone else committed

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Speaker 1: crimes for mishandling classified information, all the documents that were

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Speaker 1: found at his Marilago estate, and then the New York

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Speaker 1: case kind of leap frogged ahead of those. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what's coming next, and it could be

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Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks we get a federal indictment

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Speaker 1: in one or both of the Jack Smith matter. It

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Speaker 1: could be coming up in the spring. We get action

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Speaker 1: out of Fulton County. Fulton County, of course, that's Georgia.

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Speaker 1: You know, we get drips and drabs on those probes.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot looming and arguably, you know, with higher

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Speaker 1: stakes in terms of the types of crimes under investigation

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Speaker 1: and the amount of prison time they carry. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what's coming next, and we don't know

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Speaker 1: when something might be coming next, but we know there's

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Speaker 1: a lot out there. It's interesting the point you make

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Speaker 1: about these other cases potentially being more serious, because right

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Speaker 1: now we have Trump and his allies really pushing back

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Speaker 1: hard on the idea that this case is in nothing burger.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's relates to payments to a porn start.

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Speaker 1: All sounds like a little bit tabloidy, right, But these

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Speaker 1: other cases are so much more significant. I mean in

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Speaker 1: Fulton County, potentially crimes related to trying to overturn the

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Speaker 1: election there with his phone call pressuring state officials to

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Speaker 1: find more votes. And then, of course, you know January sixth,

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Speaker 1: an insurrection, and then all these hundreds of documents, many

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Speaker 1: of them classified, some highly classified, carted off tomorrow lago.

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Speaker 1: You know, when these other cases, if they come, if

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Speaker 1: he is charged, there's going to be so much more

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Speaker 1: at stake for him, and it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: lot harder to push back on some of these other

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Speaker 1: potential crimes because a lot of them we witness events

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Speaker 1: around them, happen right on TV in front of our eyes,

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Speaker 1: and they've already been recent court cases related to them,

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Speaker 1: you know, the fight over the search warrants in Florida

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Speaker 1: and whatnot. So this is crazy as this feels now,

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Speaker 1: it's potentially going to get so much crazier. So let's

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Speaker 1: take a moment now that you've spelled out the range

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Speaker 1: of cases and start to just go through them, and maybe, Zoe,

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Speaker 1: why don't we start with the Justice Department cases. The

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Speaker 1: Justice Department activity entered a new phase late last year

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Speaker 1: when the Attorney General Merik Garland brought in Jack Smith,

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Speaker 1: who was a long time former Justice Department official and

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Speaker 1: had then over to the Hague and the Netherlands to

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Speaker 1: lead war crimes prosecutions. He had brought Jack Smith back

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Speaker 1: to the United States to oversee two different investigations that

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Speaker 1: were already well underway. I'm here today to announce the

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Speaker 1: appointment of a special Council in connection with two ongoing

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Speaker 1: criminal investigations that have received significant public attention. The first,

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Speaker 1: as ascribed in court filings in the District of Columbia,

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Speaker 1: is the investigation first was into whether Trump longly not

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Speaker 1: only took classified material and other government records that he

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Speaker 1: was not supposed to take from the White House when

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Speaker 1: his term ended, but then held onto them even after

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Speaker 1: the National Archives got in touch and said you're not

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Speaker 1: supposed to have those, we need those back. So there

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Speaker 1: was an ongoing investigation sort of happening behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: that broke out into the open when last summer the

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Speaker 1: FBI agents went to Mara Lago with a search warrant,

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Speaker 1: which was another unprecedented moment in the history of things

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Speaker 1: happening around Donald Trump, and they executed that search warrant

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Speaker 1: and they took away boxes of documents, thousands of documents,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of which have classified markings. So there was that

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Speaker 1: investigation that Jack Smith was then put in charge of.

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Speaker 1: And where does that case stand now. It's a bit

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Speaker 1: of a black box at the moment. We know grand

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Speaker 1: jury proceedings are secret, so there's only so much that

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Speaker 1: we know about the timeline. We know that it's ongoing,

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Speaker 1: we know that it's open, We know that they are

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Speaker 1: still putting witnesses before the grand jury. You know, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what sort of timeline Smith has to then

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Speaker 1: go to the Attorney General if they need to have

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Speaker 1: a discussion about bringing charges, and what that would look

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Speaker 1: like at which point, you know, if there is a

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Speaker 1: recommendation going back to the grand jury to get an indictment.

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Speaker 1: You know, Trump has denied that he did anything wrong

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Speaker 1: when it came to the documents, and that this is

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Speaker 1: all sound and fury. That being said, the US government

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Speaker 1: takes the mishandling of classified information extremely seriously, and there

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Speaker 1: are a number of federal primes, misdemeanors, and felonies that

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Speaker 1: they can charge someone for having classified information when they shouldn't,

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Speaker 1: even if it wasn't an espionage type situation. And then

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Speaker 1: there's the obstruction component if they decide that there was

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Speaker 1: a willful effort to get in the way of returning

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Speaker 1: these documents, if you know, if they were misleading the

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Speaker 1: Archives and the Justice Department. There's a range of felonies

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Speaker 1: that carry a significant amount of potential prison time, although

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Speaker 1: someone like Trump wouldn't normally face those upper limits even

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Speaker 1: if he were convicted down the road. So that alone

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Speaker 1: is quite a lot of exposure for one person, let

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Speaker 1: alone one of several potential indictments, and we should mention

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Speaker 1: that Mark Carland, the Attorney General, also had to appoint

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Speaker 1: a special counsel in the case of Joe Biden, who

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Speaker 1: was found to also have documents in his garage, So

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Speaker 1: an investigation is under way for that too, Eric, And

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Speaker 1: that's just one of the Justice Department cases against Trump.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk about the other? The other investigation is

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Speaker 1: looking into the events around January sixth and the overall

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Speaker 1: efforts to overturn the election nationwide as a wide ranging effort.

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Speaker 1: We all saw a lot of the efforts by his allies.

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Speaker 1: We don't know exactly to what extents Trump personally would

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Speaker 1: be on the hook for any of this. Of course,

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Speaker 1: he's been accused of inciting the insurrection and directing his

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Speaker 1: supporters to bring court cases across the US, all of

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Speaker 1: which scenario sort of failed, and of course the events

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Speaker 1: on January sixth, But as far as how it might

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Speaker 1: be pieced together into a potential criminal case, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we have any clue, or at least I don't

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Speaker 1: exactly how they're building that or even how much they're

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Speaker 1: emphasizing that investigation over others. We know also for January

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Speaker 1: sixth that Jack Smith is still bringing people into the courthouse.

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Speaker 1: They've still got outstanding subpoenas, some of those are still

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Speaker 1: being litigated. It doesn't have the feeling that it's imminent

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Speaker 1: to the extent they feel like they really need to

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Speaker 1: hear from Mike Penn's former White House aids you folks

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Speaker 1: who are waiting in the queue to come into court

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Speaker 1: and wants a judge or an appeals court finally resolves

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Speaker 1: these challenges that Trump, I should add, has mostly lost,

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Speaker 1: I mean entirely lost at this point. And if Trump

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Speaker 1: does get charged in relation to January sixth, the cases

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Speaker 1: we've seen so far over January six with the members

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Speaker 1: of the militia and the individuals who have challenged the charges.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't really gone well for a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: So you already get a sense that these juries are

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Speaker 1: looking at these mountains of evidence and sort of drawing

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Speaker 1: some pretty severe conclusions. But the big question is will

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Speaker 1: that be enough to charge Trump with something specifically? And

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Speaker 1: that's not the only investigation into Ruary six that Trump

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Speaker 1: is involved in, and you know, there's potential legal exposure

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Speaker 1: for him that is moving along at already a faster

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Speaker 1: pace than the criminal probe, which is a set of

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Speaker 1: civil cases that have been filed that he's been litigating,

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Speaker 1: brought by Democrats in Congress and police officers who were

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Speaker 1: there at the Capitol that day and you know, in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the violence, seeking to hold him civilly

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Speaker 1: liable for that, and judges have already said that he

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Speaker 1: cannot claim absolute immunity against those, and he's fighting that

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Speaker 1: in an appeals court right now, but the Justice Department

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Speaker 1: has said that they are not going to back his

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Speaker 1: immunity claim on that. So you know, in terms of

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Speaker 1: getting evidence out me open in a courtroom, those civil

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Speaker 1: cases have the potential to put a lot more of

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Speaker 1: that out on the table than the criminal cases, even

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Speaker 1: depending on how long it takes before we see anything

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Speaker 1: out of the criminal side. More with Zoe and Eric

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Speaker 1: when we come back Eric. Before the break, Zoe mentioned

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Speaker 1: the case in Georgia having to do with Trump's efforts

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Speaker 1: to overturn the twenty twenty election. Where does that case stand. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So just to catch everyone up on what has happened

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Speaker 1: in Fulton County so far. Fannie willis the district attorney

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Speaker 1: in Fulton County where Atlanta is. She was elected in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty and started her job just right around the

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Speaker 1: time of the insurrection. So a lot of people were

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Speaker 1: looking at Georgia because it was such an important swing state.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the states where Trump and his

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Speaker 1: allies tried really hard in court to overturn Joe Biden's victory.

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Speaker 1: There an alleging voter fraud that did not occur. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: some audio recording came out of Trump pressuring state officials,

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Speaker 1: the governor, the Secretary of States Brad Raefensberger to find

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Speaker 1: more votes. So there was a lot going on behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes with Trump and his allies trying to flip

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Speaker 1: Georgia to his side, and obviously that it didn't work. Out.

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Speaker 1: But once news of this effort got out, Fannie Willis

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Speaker 1: opened an investigation. And what we know is that a

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Speaker 1: special grand jury was convened that heard from dozens of

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Speaker 1: witnesses over a period of several months. And the way

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Speaker 1: the system works in Georgia is that this special grand

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Speaker 1: jury made a recommendation about indictments. So we don't know

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Speaker 1: what those recommendations were. But in February they issued their reports.

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Speaker 1: Part of it was made public, not very much of it,

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Speaker 1: but sort of the intro and the conclusion, which indicated

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Speaker 1: that they had recommended some indictments, but we don't know who.

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Speaker 1: So now what we are expecting the DA to bring

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Speaker 1: a case to a regular grand jury that we think

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Speaker 1: potentially could convene in early May. We don't know exactly

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Speaker 1: how long that's going to take, but we understand that

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Speaker 1: those regular grand juries last about two months. Clearly, the

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Speaker 1: special grand jury that got a first glimpse at this

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Speaker 1: evidence thought that what happened in Georgia with Trump and

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Speaker 1: his allies someone violated some state laws. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: had the pretty extraordinary moment of a member of that

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Speaker 1: suggesting I would say, suggesting strongly that they had recommended

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say it. We rarely get that kind of insight

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Speaker 1: given leave to do that. They didn't have the power

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Speaker 1: to vote to indict. So we don't know what Fannie

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Speaker 1: Willis will do with whatever the grand jury wants her

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Speaker 1: to do. And what is Trump said about this investigation?

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Speaker 1: In this case, In addition to denying having done anything wrong,

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Speaker 1: he said that his call with the state officials was

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Speaker 1: a perfect call, not his only perfect call. So he

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Speaker 1: says he did nothing wrong, and he says that the

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Speaker 1: and Zoe. It's early days, as you say. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: if charges are brought, what does Trump potentially face. I

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Speaker 1: think the prevailing theory is that it would be some

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Speaker 1: kind of racketeering case, grouping together not just Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: but other people that we've all become very familiar with,

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Speaker 1: maybe Rudy Giuliani or John Eastman, you know, these lawyers

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Speaker 1: on the ground in these states to try and undo

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Speaker 1: the election, trying to convince state legislators to stop the

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Speaker 1: certification from happening, and both of them say they two

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Speaker 1: did nothing wrong. There are state actors and all of

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Speaker 1: this too, you know, members of the state legislature in

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Speaker 1: Georgia who might be implicated. It's state crimes. It's not

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Speaker 1: a federal case, so it's different requirements, different players. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's possible there other state crimes similar to what is

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Speaker 1: under investigation on the federal side, but you obstructing generally

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Speaker 1: or fraud. Unlike in the New York case, where it

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Speaker 1: was always very clear, I think what the focus was,

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Speaker 1: it was much narrower. There's just a range of things

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Speaker 1: that could be on the table in both the Justice

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Speaker 1: Department and the Fulton County case, just Fulton County specific

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Speaker 1: to Georgia and Justice Department nationwide. When we come back,

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Speaker 1: what to watch for in the months ahead, Eric, there

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Speaker 1: are also civil lawsuits ongoing right now. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us about them? On April twenty fifth, Donald Trump is

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Speaker 1: set to go on trial in a civil sexual assault

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Speaker 1: case filed against him last year by Aging Carroll, a

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Speaker 1: well known New York author of former l magazine advice

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Speaker 1: columnists who alleges that Trump raped her in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineties in a department store dressing room in Manhattan, and

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Speaker 1: she filed the suit last year under a new New

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Speaker 1: York law that lifted the statute of limitations on these

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Speaker 1: older assault claims temporarily for one year. So I believe

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Speaker 1: her suit against Trump was actually the first one to

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Speaker 1: be filed on the day that this law took effect.

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Speaker 1: And now it's already set for trial. And it also

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Speaker 1: includes a claim for defamation, claiming that one of his

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Speaker 1: truth social posts on social media attacking her last October

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Speaker 1: defamed her. So this whole case has been set to

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Speaker 1: go for trial. Trump has said that he was going

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Speaker 1: to take the witness stand in his own defense. Aging

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Speaker 1: Carroll was also set to testify, and also several other

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Speaker 1: witnesses who say they can back up her story. Trump

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Speaker 1: has repeatedly denied raping Eging Carroll and claims that her

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Speaker 1: allegation against him was politically motivated. But we don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly what's going to happen to this trial now with

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Speaker 1: this indictment. So far, on neither side has asked to

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Speaker 1: move the case. I know the judge has said he's

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Speaker 1: very determined to keep it going no matter what. So

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Speaker 1: on top of that, in October, Trump is again set

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Speaker 1: to go on trial, along with three of his kids

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Speaker 1: and his company in a two hundred and fifty million

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Speaker 1: dollar fraud lawsuit brought by the New York Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: Letitia James. That suit followed years of investigation claims that

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Speaker 1: they all inflated the value of Trump's assets for years,

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Speaker 1: specifically to get better terms on loans and insurance and

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Speaker 1: things like that, and essentially reaped two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: million dollars in improper games over that time. She wants

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Speaker 1: to claw all that back, and she also wants to

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Speaker 1: ban the Trumps from being directors of any New York

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Speaker 1: based company, which could have significant consequences of course for them,

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Speaker 1: with the Trump Organization being based in Manhattan. Trump and

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Speaker 1: his company and also his kids have denied wrongdoing, and

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Speaker 1: right now they've lost their motions to dismiss the discovery,

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Speaker 1: and the case is ongoing and it is set for

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Speaker 1: trial in October and then also in New York. Separate

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Speaker 1: from these cases that really dominated the headlines during his

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Speaker 1: presidency and post presidency, there's other litigation that predates his

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Speaker 1: time in the White House. There's a case pending in

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Speaker 1: New York brought by disgruntled investors who say that they

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Speaker 1: put their money into this videophone technology because Trump had

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Speaker 1: come on and the spokesperson for it saying, this is

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Speaker 1: a great investment. Trust me, I'm a great businessman. And

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Speaker 1: these investors say that they were duped, that they weren't

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Speaker 1: informed that he was being paid to come out and

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Speaker 1: tout this investment opportunity, and that it was a really

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Speaker 1: bad investment opportunity and they lost a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: And that case has kind of been proceeding in the background,

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Speaker 1: and I believe Eric you reported Trump sat for a

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Speaker 1: deposition in that case in the fall, So that seems

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Speaker 1: to be moving forward as well. And it's not related

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Speaker 1: to his political activities. It's not related to the insurrection,

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Speaker 1: but it's more legal liability that he has to face

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Speaker 1: at some point. We should say, the device Trump promoted

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Speaker 1: was sold by a company called ac and the company

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Speaker 1: is not a defendant in this case and has not

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Speaker 1: been accused of any wrongdoing. Yeah. The interesting thing about

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Speaker 1: that case too, is that it really relates to his

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Speaker 1: behavior as a businessman and not even to his normal

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Speaker 1: Trump organization type business with real estate and everything like that,

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Speaker 1: but his marketing and his persona. These plaintiffs, they're seeking

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Speaker 1: a class action status, which is yet to be decided

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Speaker 1: before the case goes to trial, depending on how many

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Speaker 1: plainists end up being part of this class. If indeed

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Speaker 1: there is a class approved, it could end up being

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars in damages here. Trump ends his three

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Speaker 1: adult kids, Don Junior, Eric Trump, and Ivanka Trump are

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Speaker 1: also defendants in that case and his company. They've all

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Speaker 1: and i'd wrongdoing. It certainly should be a very interesting

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Speaker 1: trial if it happens, So Zoe, how will all these

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Speaker 1: various prosecutors, judges, lawyers decide the order they should go in?

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Speaker 1: Is there going to be a pile up where Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump potentially could be appearing in courtroom after courtroom, month

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Speaker 1: after month. I mean, the short answer to that is yes.

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Speaker 1: You know, there is a certain amount of coordination that

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Speaker 1: goes on among lawyers and judges and court personnel. Most

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Speaker 1: people in this system have an interest in moving these along,

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Speaker 1: and judges are not going to interfere with another judges

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Speaker 1: hearing trial date. That's incumbent on the lawyers to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they communicate that kind of stuff to judges,

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you know, we

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Speaker 1: would expect to see a lot of requests for delayed

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Speaker 1: deadlines for filings and motions, hearings that might need to

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Speaker 1: be rescheduled. As a defendant in a criminal case, that

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Speaker 1: is likely going to take priority over everything else that's

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Speaker 1: going on. There are certain rights, you know, important constitutional

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Speaker 1: rights that he now has as a criminal defendant. The

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Speaker 1: judge is going to be very sensitive to that, especially

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Speaker 1: given the circumstances, and if there are deadlines in that

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Speaker 1: criminal case, those are likely going to take some precedence.

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Speaker 1: I would expect, and I've talked to sources who said

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Speaker 1: this over some of the civil matters. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: running for president, which we haven't really talked about that much. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about that too. We expect that Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is going to have to take time off of the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail to testify in cases in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four campaign. It's possible. I think prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: you know, are going to try to avoid that as

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Speaker 1: much as they have an interest in not getting dragged

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Speaker 1: down into a discussion about whether this is all politically motivated,

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Speaker 1: which they will say it is not, but they don't

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Speaker 1: want to be taking him off the campaign trail to

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Speaker 1: get into court. It's not going to be a good look,

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Speaker 1: and you know, public relations wise, that's going to be

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Speaker 1: a problem. It's going to get really difficult, I think,

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Speaker 1: to get them all sorted. If there are multiple cases

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Speaker 1: before the primaries pick up early in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: As the two of you are both covering all of

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Speaker 1: these cases, what are the ones that you think pose

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Speaker 1: the biggest legal peril for the former president. I don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly what the January sixth or election interference case

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Speaker 1: could potentially look like, because it's just so broad and

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Speaker 1: there's so many different potential cases that could be put together.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of wonder if the classified records case

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Speaker 1: doesn't sort of stand out as being potentially the most serious.

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Speaker 1: The court finalings that we have seen related to the

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Speaker 1: Moralogo search also specify certain crimes that carry quite a

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Speaker 1: lot of prison time, and again not saying that he

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Speaker 1: would face anywhere near the maximum. It's not really how

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Speaker 1: that works, but it is a lot more in both

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Speaker 1: of those cases than what he seems to be likely

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Speaker 1: to face in New York on the hush money charges.

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Speaker 1: As we've seen, the New York case over the hush

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Speaker 1: money would not disqualify him from running or serving as

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Speaker 1: president even if he were convicted. Do any of these

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Speaker 1: other cases disqualify him from serving as president? A conviction

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Speaker 1: on a lot of these crimes does not necessarily stop

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Speaker 1: him from being president should he win that election. On

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Speaker 1: the classified documents side, there are certain offenses that do

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Speaker 1: disqualify someone from holding office, but there's some uncertainty about

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Speaker 1: how that would apply to the presidency. But you know,

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Speaker 1: he can run for office right now. If he's facing

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Speaker 1: ten thousand criminal charges, it doesn't matter. And let's be honest,

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Speaker 1: this criminal case actually is really going to galvanize him

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And this is the perfect

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Speaker 1: kind of backdrop almost for part of his campaign, which

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Speaker 1: is largely based on this idea of Democrats attacking and

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Speaker 1: trying to silence Republicans, trying to destroy the Make America

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Speaker 1: Great movement, that sort of thing. I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to say at the end that regardless of what happens

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Speaker 1: in any of this, every prosecutor, state or federal will

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Speaker 1: tell you that the goal in bringing charges against someone

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Speaker 1: is not to serve some other political purpose. And at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, the DA's Office, the Justice Department,

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Speaker 1: the Fulton County District Attorney's office, if they're presenting a

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Speaker 1: case that they can't win in front of a jury,

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Speaker 1: that's a huge problem for them, and they know that

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Speaker 1: going into this. So, you know, setting aside sort of

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Speaker 1: the larger political conversation, you know, at the point that

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Speaker 1: we get to an indictment, at least in theory, it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to mean that law enforcement is convinced that a

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Speaker 1: crime has been committed, and you know, they really can't

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Speaker 1: just bring an indictment to make a statement and then

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Speaker 1: walk away. They have to see this through. I think

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Speaker 1: it's just important to remember that this is the beginning

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Speaker 1: and not the end of this process. Zoe, Eric, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show. Thank you, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having us, Thanks for listening to us here at

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Speaker 1: the Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: For more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot Net. The supervising producer of the Big Take is

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Speaker 1: Vicky Burgolina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. They produced

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Speaker 1: this episode with additional production support from Mobarrow. Raphael m

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Speaker 1: Seely is our engineer. Our original music was composed by

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Speaker 1: Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow with

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Speaker 1: another Big Take.