Speaker 1: Even I grew up in South Texas, but in school
Speaker 1: we're never taught that the underground railroad had a southern
Speaker 1: route that went through our own backyards. In this special
Speaker 1: episode of Hungry for History, we'll learn about freedom fighters
Speaker 1: in Mexico and in Texas, and we'll meet Sylvia Weber,
Speaker 1: often referred to as the Harriet Tubman of the South,
Speaker 1: along with her husband John. We'll welcome doctor Maria Hamac,
Speaker 1: a scholar and historian whose work bridges histories of liberation
Speaker 1: and abolition, as well as Sofia Brabo and OJ and
Speaker 1: Leslie Trevigno of the Weber Family Preservation Project and ancestors
Speaker 1: of Sylvia and John Webber. My name is Eva Longoria
Speaker 1: and I am Mate remez Rajon and welcome to.
Speaker 2: Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our past and
Speaker 2: present through food.
Speaker 1: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
Speaker 1: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages.
Speaker 3: From our culture.
Speaker 2: So make yourself at home. E Wen Brocho, everybody, welcome
Speaker 2: back to Hungary for History. We have a great episode today.
Speaker 1: Many people aren't aware of this, but Mexico abolished slavery
Speaker 1: thirty six years before the United states before before before
Speaker 1: by its second president after Independenceity Senterero. He was an
Speaker 1: Afro Mestiso. No he yeah, yeah, he was the son
Speaker 1: of a woman of African descent and a Mestiso. He
Speaker 1: was president of Mexico and he abolished slavery. And so
Speaker 1: after this time, after eighteen twenty nine, enslaved Africans from
Speaker 1: the US were fleeing the south and finding freedom and
Speaker 1: refuge in Mexico in the southern route of the underground railroad.
Speaker 1: So this is something that I learned about recently. This
Speaker 1: is not something that I mean, I took Texas history
Speaker 1: for years in junior high in Ice well ever learned.
Speaker 2: Never learned about this this no, But also I knew
Speaker 2: this because what I did searching for Mexico when we
Speaker 2: were in Veracruz. That was the main port where a
Speaker 2: lot of the slave ships came in and they built
Speaker 2: this neighborhood from the wood of the boats that brought
Speaker 2: them over like they're resilience.
Speaker 1: We visited that La Waca neighborhood in red ac Cruz,
Speaker 1: which is incredible. But more enslaved people were brought to
Speaker 1: Mexico then to the US, and at one point in
Speaker 1: history there were more enslaved people in Mexico than in Brazil.
Speaker 1: Between the conquest fifteen nineteen to eighteen twenty nine, when
Speaker 1: slavery was abolished by Cinte Arero, was estimated that about
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand slaved Africans were taken to New Spain.
Speaker 1: Right what is now you know Mexico, But this abolition
Speaker 1: played this really key role in the nation's early history.
Speaker 4: My name is Maria sar Hammock, and I am a
Speaker 4: scholar of a Mexican scholar of like liberation in North America,
Speaker 4: and I I'm trying to recover or help recover what
Speaker 4: I argue is the experiences but also the legacies, the
Speaker 4: intellectual and physical legacies of black women who engineered channels
Speaker 4: of liberation to Mexican spaces. Part of the work that
Speaker 4: I do is I argue that the first diaspora that
Speaker 4: shaped Mexico was this first diaspora that came in from
Speaker 4: African nations and people that were brought and slaved, and
Speaker 4: how they started fighting for freedom as soon as they
Speaker 4: arrived on Mexican soil. You start seeing individuals as Gasparajanga
Speaker 4: who escaped and went to the mountains and took a
Speaker 4: lot of people with him and started helping others to
Speaker 4: get to the mountains. And it wasn't only until they
Speaker 4: made a treaty with the people on the ground, with
Speaker 4: the authorities to say okay, they needed assistance to fight
Speaker 4: certain battles. So they said, okay, we can help you,
Speaker 4: but just know you're going to have to recognize us
Speaker 4: as free people. So we are free, we're no longer enslaved,
Speaker 4: and if we do help you were going to you're
Speaker 4: going to have to treat us as such. So I
Speaker 4: do argue and the histories that I've read, and like
Speaker 4: the documents that I have been able to access in
Speaker 4: Mexican collections do show this process where people as soon
Speaker 4: as they arrived, black women, men and children were fighting
Speaker 4: to be free. So this is also engages the notion
Speaker 4: of the freedom fighter. People didn't just arrived enslaved and
Speaker 4: we're happy being enslaved. That never happened consistently. People were
Speaker 4: escaping consistently, consistently, people were running in Mexican soil. So
Speaker 4: by the eighteen hundred, so many people in Mexico who
Speaker 4: had been enslaved had ran or escaped or maneuver ways
Speaker 4: to be free. That by eighteen hundreds. So by eighteen
Speaker 4: hundreds and eighteen ten and the Mexican independence movement began,
Speaker 4: most people, most black Mexicans, were free. The number of
Speaker 4: people with that remain enslaved was significantly lower by eighteen hundred.
Speaker 4: So the history that I try to highlight that is
Speaker 4: part of this first diaspora is this, when independence begins,
Speaker 4: the independence movement begins in Mexico, you have a large
Speaker 4: population of free black Mexicans or free black people that
Speaker 4: live in Mexico.
Speaker 2: Because at this.
Speaker 4: Time in eighteen ten, when Girito the Lord has happened
Speaker 4: and miguelid Algo rose up and morellos rose up, Mexico
Speaker 4: was part of Spain, but it was still Mexican soil,
Speaker 4: but it was under the Spanish crown, so it wasn't
Speaker 4: necessarily the Republic of Mexico yet. But in this era,
Speaker 4: the majority of people in Mexico were free, only a
Speaker 4: small number remain enslaved. The people who are leading this
Speaker 4: movement for independence, a lot of these individuals who are
Speaker 4: fighting at the forefront for the insurgent movement, which is
Speaker 4: for freedom for Mexico and independent Mexico from Spain were
Speaker 4: black Mexicans, people who were either born enslaved themselves or
Speaker 4: whose parents had been born enslaved, or whose grandparents had
Speaker 4: been born enslaved. So they had a vested interest to
Speaker 4: fight for freedom, for freedom against the Spanish rule, right,
Speaker 4: but also to say, okay, we're fighting for the freedom
Speaker 4: of this new nation, whatever that will be. But also
Speaker 4: we want to make sure that if we're fighting for
Speaker 4: freedom for this nation, we want to make sure that
Speaker 4: this nation has freedom for our children. So we want
Speaker 4: to make sure that our children are going to be
Speaker 4: free in this new nation we're fighting for. And so
Speaker 4: these are the individuals who start fighting to make sure
Speaker 4: that the slavery is fully abolished. And some of the
Speaker 4: leaders that come up with this movement is Vicente Guerero
Speaker 4: is our first Afro Mexican president, who was the one
Speaker 4: who decreed the abolition of slavery in eighteen twenty nine.
Speaker 4: His grandparents were born enslaved and so he had a
Speaker 4: vested interest. And so that goes to show that people
Speaker 4: who were fighting for the independence of Mexico had backgrounds
Speaker 4: and had vested interest. So they had black roots and
Speaker 4: so they were vested in the ideas of freedom and
Speaker 4: you know, personal freedom, and that's what shaped Mexican abolitionist
Speaker 4: processes as early as Mexico secured independence from Spain, which
Speaker 4: was eighteen twenty one. So abolition was always at the
Speaker 4: forefront because these black Mexican leaders as well. It also
Speaker 4: indigenous after indigenous and indigenous people, they were at the
Speaker 4: forefront of this movement. So I argue that this is
Speaker 4: the first diaspora that shaped Mexico because a lot of
Speaker 4: the times when we talk about Mexico and what Mexicans are,
Speaker 4: we don't consider that Mexico has black roots or that
Speaker 4: Mexicans have black roots. But most of the leaders who
Speaker 4: fought for independence were black, or Afro indigenous or Afro mestizo.
Speaker 4: So the roots are there and the records don't lie.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll talk about Sylvia Weber, the
Speaker 1: Harriet Tubman of Texas and speak with some of her ancestors.
Speaker 2: That's after the break, stay with us. Who was Sylvia Weber?
Speaker 2: Was she at Texan?
Speaker 1: Now Sylvia Weber is fascinating, right, So where there's oppression,
Speaker 1: there's a fight for freedom, whether it's Mexico, whether it's
Speaker 1: the US, or wherever it is. There's a president, there's freedom,
Speaker 1: and a lot of women led the liberation process. Harriet Tubman,
Speaker 1: of course, is the one that most people in the
Speaker 1: States are familiar with. But Sylvia Weber was one of
Speaker 1: these women who helped enslaved people cross to Mexico. She
Speaker 1: was born in Spanish Florida. From Florida, she was taken
Speaker 1: to what is now Austin. So she came to Texas's
Speaker 1: property of John Crier when she was nineteen, and there
Speaker 1: she met a man named John Weber, who was a
Speaker 1: white business partner of John Criers. So they fell in
Speaker 1: love while still enslaved. She gave birth to three children,
Speaker 1: and then eventually she gained her freedom papers and she
Speaker 1: and John could not legally marry in Texas. But actually
Speaker 1: there was one person that with them. He was a
Speaker 1: Catholic priest named Father Muldan, so he married them. And
Speaker 1: imagine this eighteen hundreds, eighteen thirties, an inter racial couple
Speaker 1: inandace scandalous, It's crazy. So she was described as intelligent
Speaker 1: and kind and welcoming. She was known for her good deeds,
Speaker 1: for her charity work. Her house was always open, you know,
Speaker 1: to anyone, and you know, human being was ever sent away,
Speaker 1: and nobody left their home, you know, hungry.
Speaker 2: They ended up getting a little tired of the discrimination
Speaker 2: in Central Texas and they moved to the Rio Grand Valley,
Speaker 2: which is near the US Mexico border, and their ranch,
Speaker 2: which was called the Weber Ranch, was a stop in
Speaker 2: the underground railroad. Like I wish I knew this history, right,
Speaker 2: They helped I know, this is so fascinating. They helped
Speaker 2: fugitives find you know, safe haven in Mexico because again
Speaker 2: Mexico abolished slavery. They built it ferry landing and licensed
Speaker 2: a ferry stop that led directly from their home on
Speaker 2: the Rio Grand to Mexico. And she was just the
Speaker 2: staunch anti slavery advocate through the Civil War, and you know,
Speaker 2: her and her family stood against the Confederacy, who, by
Speaker 2: the way, persecuted them for being Union sympathizers. And then
Speaker 2: they eventually fled to Mexico in the eighteen sixties to
Speaker 2: escape the Confederacy and they did not return until eighteen
Speaker 2: eighty two, and then John died soon after that.
Speaker 1: They went through our backyards and we spoke with some
Speaker 1: of their ancestors, and they didn't even know that they
Speaker 1: were ancestors of this woman. So it's this part of
Speaker 1: history that's just kept such hush hush for soul along.
Speaker 1: It makes me so angry and I'm so cheated that
Speaker 1: I was not taught this in Texas history and that
Speaker 1: it's not taught in the in the US. But so
Speaker 1: there were not a lot of written records, like they
Speaker 1: couldn't say, oh, so and so a person is going
Speaker 1: to cross and so and so in person's because it
Speaker 1: was dangerous. But people like John Ford known as rip Ford,
Speaker 1: this Confederate colonel and Texas ranger during the Civil War.
Speaker 1: He wrote about them like, oh damn it, this is
Speaker 1: Sylvia and John Webber. He went out of his way
Speaker 1: to make their lives hell.
Speaker 2: That's first of all, none of this is in Texas
Speaker 2: history books. And also kind of the false narrative of
Speaker 2: the Alamo. This is such a I think, a monument
Speaker 2: of freedom, but in reality it's the opposite. Because Texas
Speaker 2: was was Mexico and slavery had already been abolished, and
Speaker 2: the white settlers in Texas knew that if they wanted
Speaker 2: their economy to grow, which was the three c's cotton, copper,
Speaker 2: and cattle, they were going to need enslave labor, so
Speaker 2: they refused to assimilate to Mexico and this resulted in
Speaker 2: Texas revolting against Mexico. But we're taught like a remember
Speaker 2: the Alamo, it's a monument to freedom. But in reality
Speaker 2: it was a country defending its values, which was do
Speaker 2: not enslaved people. You know, speak the language, by the way.
Speaker 2: That was one of the requisites was speak Spanish. Nobody
Speaker 2: they refused to learn Spanish, and they said be Catholic,
Speaker 2: by the way. That was one of them. And these
Speaker 2: were wasp white Anglo Saxons, and they were like, we're
Speaker 2: not gonna be Catholic, We're not gonna speak Spanish, and
Speaker 2: we're going to keep our slaves. And so part of this,
Speaker 2: you know, rebranding meant erasing important figures in Texas and
Speaker 2: South Texas well. We sat down with Leslie Dutcher Trevigno,
Speaker 2: president of the Weber Family Preservation Project and wife of
Speaker 2: Oj Trevigno, a descendant of the Webers.
Speaker 3: The Webers were pretty well known. I mean, there's a
Speaker 3: town called Weberville outside of Travis, Like it's in Travis County,
Speaker 3: sixteen miles south of Boston, and they were well known
Speaker 3: to have helped people, and that's actually in several different accounts,
Speaker 3: given they were union sympathizers. In fact, so much so
Speaker 3: that four during the Civil War went out of his
Speaker 3: way to find them and arrest them in the Rio
Speaker 3: Grand where they were living in Texas at that time
Speaker 3: after they moved, and they stuck in his cross so
Speaker 3: badly that they're actually mentioned by name in his very
Speaker 3: long winded autobiography that he wrote. And so it is there.
Speaker 3: It's just been very intentionally kind of washed over to
Speaker 3: make it go away, because Texas has done a master
Speaker 3: job of rebranding itself in terms of cowboys, trills, drives, rodeos,
Speaker 3: that kind of thing, to erase its history that is
Speaker 3: so entrenched in slavery. That's what this economy Texas was
Speaker 3: built on. That economy, and Austin said Texas must be
Speaker 3: a slave country, and so that was the very foundation
Speaker 3: of it. And the Webers are there and they're mentioned.
Speaker 3: It's just, like I said, been very overlooked intentionally, even
Speaker 3: so much so that descendants weren't aware of their own ancestry. Sadly,
Speaker 3: as things keep going the way they are, I think
Speaker 3: it might stay that way. If you know, the powers
Speaker 3: that be have their way.
Speaker 5: I'm a fifth generation descendant from so In John Webber
Speaker 5: and also the secretary of the Weber Family Preservation Project.
Speaker 5: Sylvia was brought into Texas through her enslaver and then
Speaker 5: John also came down through Texas because he was a
Speaker 5: big tobacco smuggler, all right, so he kind of was
Speaker 5: working his way south and that was just kind of
Speaker 5: part of his route and what he was doing, and
Speaker 5: settled into Texas, and then I believe we have documented
Speaker 5: somewhere around eighteen twenty nine, I think is somewhere where
Speaker 5: we kind of estimate that John and Sylvia met and
Speaker 5: kind of started their relationship and started having children, you know,
Speaker 5: right around that time, you know a little bit after that,
Speaker 5: while she was still enslaved, right, they had three children
Speaker 5: while she was still enslaved by John Cryer. And this was,
Speaker 5: like I said, between eighteen twenty nine and eighteen thirty four,
Speaker 5: and then in eighteen thirty four, June eleventh, eighteen thirty
Speaker 5: four is when they secured her freedom from John Cryer.
Speaker 5: And that's where those were the freedom papers that Maria
Speaker 5: found when she was working on her you know, doctor
Speaker 5: thesis at the University of Texas. And I mean, that's
Speaker 5: that was an amazing find because that has really helped
Speaker 5: us find so much more and open the door for
Speaker 5: us finding that information into where we are, you know today,
Speaker 5: because there's kind of so much in there that you
Speaker 5: can read, you know, in those papers, you know, the
Speaker 5: the ask you know, for for her freedom and that
Speaker 5: of her three children at the time were two other
Speaker 5: children under the age of three, a male and a
Speaker 5: female under the age of three was the ask. Now
Speaker 5: inside of those papers, what they worked in was if
Speaker 5: they did not pay in children or in life or life,
Speaker 5: then they had their land up for collateral right. And
Speaker 5: by that time they had already established their Weberville land,
Speaker 5: which at that time was called Weber's Prairie. But they
Speaker 5: had already established that land, and that was somewhere in
Speaker 5: the three thousand and five thousand acres somewhere that in
Speaker 5: that range. So it was quite a bit of land
Speaker 5: that they put up for collateral right. And that's kind
Speaker 5: of what we knew for a little while. And then
Speaker 5: again Maria through her work found papers where John Weber
Speaker 5: forfeited the land to John Cryer as part of this
Speaker 5: agreement and fulfilling these freedom papers. After that, you know,
Speaker 5: that's you know again eighteen thirty four, right. Then they
Speaker 5: were in Weberville until eighteen fifty, which is when they
Speaker 5: signed over those that land over to Crier. They you know,
Speaker 5: from eighteen thirty four eighteen fifty, they were in there.
Speaker 5: They got a tutor, they were tutoring their children. They
Speaker 5: ended up having another eight nine children. I think they
Speaker 5: had thirteen untilal twelve survived to adulthood, so you know,
Speaker 5: they had several children, you know, after that between eighteen
Speaker 5: thirty four and eighteen fifty and they got kicked out
Speaker 5: of their own town because as more white settlers coming
Speaker 5: in and realizing, you know, this is an interracial couple.
Speaker 5: They are tutoring their children exactly right, and you know,
Speaker 5: how dare they you know, even want to educate their children, right,
Speaker 5: And so educating the children, the tutor started receiving death threats,
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, it was just you know, not
Speaker 5: good conditions. So they started making their way down to
Speaker 5: the valley and settled in Donna, Texas in eighteen fifty
Speaker 5: three is where they settled and purchased I think again
Speaker 5: over eight thousand acres of land and a big portion
Speaker 5: that had and it was again right along the river
Speaker 5: banks there in the real Grande Leslie has researched and
Speaker 5: the doctor Hammock of research is that the knowledge that
Speaker 5: Sylvia had and brought right from her time of being
Speaker 5: enslaved and having to work with you know, flat bottom
Speaker 5: boats and stuff like that, that was the education that
Speaker 5: she used and the knowledge that she used, you know,
Speaker 5: across the river to help you know, free enslave people.
Speaker 1: And he talks about this one drop rule, like, did
Speaker 1: you know about this one drop rule?
Speaker 2: That's what this role was about, was this huge discrimination
Speaker 2: in the twentieth century because they said, you know, a
Speaker 2: single drop of black blood makes a person black.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is why a lot of people like
Speaker 1: oj Devigno and Sophia Bravo, another ancestor of the Webers
Speaker 1: that we spoke about, they didn't know about this because oh,
Speaker 1: if there's one drop rule, so it would be dangerous.
Speaker 1: They decided to then just keep it quiet. Oh you're
Speaker 1: part black and you're park Mexican like this is it
Speaker 1: was just it was just too much, so they just
Speaker 1: kept this history quiet. So there were so many freedom
Speaker 1: fighters and we can't mention them. All and also even
Speaker 1: if we wanted to, so many of them will never
Speaker 1: know by name. But it's also I think really interesting
Speaker 1: to note that the Webers lived near Matilda and Nathaniel Jackson,
Speaker 1: another interracial couple also in the Rio Grande Valley that
Speaker 1: were known to help fugitive slaves and asylum seekers.
Speaker 2: Well, just last year, the Jackson Ranch near the banks
Speaker 2: of the Rio Grande in present day Hidalgo County was
Speaker 2: recognized by the National Park Service as a historical significant
Speaker 2: part of its Underground Railroad Network to Freedom program. That's
Speaker 2: pretty cool. So as part of the journey, many who
Speaker 2: traveled South to Freedom like that left the United States
Speaker 2: and went into Mexico. They carried with them food that
Speaker 2: they could use to barter or trade with with the
Speaker 2: indigenous people or the Mexican people along the way for
Speaker 2: safe passage. And this included bacon, corn meal, and peaches.
Speaker 2: I don't know there was peach trees in Texas.
Speaker 1: Trees, Yeah, peach trees were introduced to Florida by Spaniards
Speaker 1: in the mid fifteen hundreds. So actually, if we go
Speaker 1: way way back, peaches are originally from China, but they
Speaker 1: were brought over like so many other things. They were
Speaker 1: brought over. They became a staple across the South by
Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, and in Texas they were abundant in
Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds, and Sylvia Weber and her family
Speaker 1: were known to have sold peaches for sustenance.
Speaker 2: Peach leaves were also used medicinally to help heal wounds,
Speaker 2: and they have anti microbial properties. And also, you know,
Speaker 2: we know canning food obviously prolongs it. And we've talked
Speaker 2: about the history of of canning, but canned foods were
Speaker 2: instrumental to slaves escaping to the South via the underground railroad,
Speaker 2: because then they could have more to eat.
Speaker 6: They would do a lot of canning. They used to
Speaker 6: process a lot of Canyon used to have can They
Speaker 6: used to can all the tomatoes and onions and cabbages.
Speaker 6: And because that's the way we would grow around that ranch,
Speaker 6: around those farms, and they would can them and they
Speaker 6: would put them away and when people come along, you know,
Speaker 6: that's what they would give them. You know, they would
Speaker 6: come and it was yeah, because canyon was I mean
Speaker 6: it was I was even part of that. They used
Speaker 6: to make us go good, go and wash the jars
Speaker 6: and my grandma. They used to beat an assembly line
Speaker 6: of people just cannying those vegetables and putting them away.
Speaker 6: And I would tell Grandma, why do you want so many?
Speaker 6: And she's like, you don't ask that, just go wash
Speaker 6: the jar. And we're like, okay, yes, but it was
Speaker 6: part of our life. You would can, and they would can,
Speaker 6: and they would can. I mean they would. They would
Speaker 6: spend cannying and canyon for you know, for what I
Speaker 6: do not know that we were not allowed to ask.
Speaker 6: My name is Sophia Brabo and I am the vice
Speaker 6: president of the nonprofit that we have that we're still
Speaker 6: preserving the Weber family. I am a direct descendant of
Speaker 6: the Weber I'm the caretaker of that Weber cemetery where
Speaker 6: all our relatives are buried. And I'm the one that
Speaker 6: if you want a tour, or you want any information,
Speaker 6: or you want to go visit, I'm the one that
Speaker 6: you get a hold of. And I'll be more than
Speaker 6: glad to go take you out there. I do it
Speaker 6: to whoever asked.
Speaker 3: I'll go.
Speaker 6: You know, I will find time, I will schedule time,
Speaker 6: and you know you're I will be more than glad
Speaker 6: to tour you to that cemetery. My grandma was the
Speaker 6: one that everybody used to go visit, even oh, mom,
Speaker 6: Mom used to go visit, and his grandparents used to
Speaker 6: go visit my grandmother because she was like an elder.
Speaker 6: And you would hear those stories, oh you know this
Speaker 6: and that. But you were not allowed to even claim
Speaker 6: that you were part of the black community. You know,
Speaker 6: there was a very hush hush situation. Because of that situe,
Speaker 6: you know, I guess it were scared that if you
Speaker 6: were part of the well, they were Webers. Of course,
Speaker 6: my grandmother was Marcella Weber. But they would never say
Speaker 6: what why there were Webers or why, you know, they
Speaker 6: would just claim John, John Webber, you know John. But
Speaker 6: Sylvia was always left behind because Sylvia was the one
Speaker 6: there was an African American. But everybody, well, I'm related
Speaker 6: to John. John was a white boy. He was a
Speaker 6: white man. So everybody, oh, yeah, I'm white, you know,
Speaker 6: because of John. But they never said poor Sylvia was
Speaker 6: always left to one side.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: Oh my god, you are not allowed to say you
Speaker 6: are black, especially in South Texas, South Texas, you were
Speaker 6: not allowed.
Speaker 1: Endless histories and culinary traditions have been passed down through generations,
Speaker 1: but many names were never recorded. Thankfully, people like doctor
Speaker 1: Marie Hamac searching for these stories and sharing them with
Speaker 1: the world. One such story is about a woman who
Speaker 1: may have started the butter industry in northern Mexico. Here
Speaker 1: is doctor Hamak sharing this story.
Speaker 4: We don't know her name. I have been looking for
Speaker 4: several years in the Mexican archives to try to find
Speaker 4: her name. I haven't been that lucky, but I've been
Speaker 4: able to retrace some of her journey, like to Situarya,
Speaker 4: where she was from in Mississippi, and then I don't
Speaker 4: know how she made it to Mexico, but when she
Speaker 4: was in Mexican what she was doing. And there's accounts
Speaker 4: that talk about how she was the only person in
Speaker 4: the market in again in mont Cloba, in the open
Speaker 4: market that was selling butter and people were like wow,
Speaker 4: like we've never had butter. This butter is delicious.
Speaker 3: What is you know?
Speaker 4: And people stop and like this is delicious, and any
Speaker 4: other she was also selling other dairy products, but tracing
Speaker 4: that story, it was like, Okay, where she had been born,
Speaker 4: they made butter as well. It was the enslay people
Speaker 4: that were forced to make the butter, and so she had,
Speaker 4: you know, she knew how to make it, and so
Speaker 4: it was only logical if she, however, she made it
Speaker 4: to northern Mexico that she knew she could make a
Speaker 4: living there by introducing this with everybody else was using lard,
Speaker 4: and there were people that were only the upper classes
Speaker 4: had butter like in other places, but not necessarily butter.
Speaker 4: They had other types, but lard was deep thing that
Speaker 4: was used. And I tried, I did do my due
Speaker 4: diligence to ask other scholars who work on food history
Speaker 4: if they knew anything about battery in Mexico. And really
Speaker 4: nobody has done an in depth study on who introduced
Speaker 4: better in Mexico. And I believe that it was this
Speaker 4: black woman from Mississippi who was free being free in
Speaker 4: northern Mexico in the eighteen thirties. Butter was being made
Speaker 4: also on the other side in Texas as early as
Speaker 4: eighteen twenty eight by the enslaved that were brought by
Speaker 4: the Stephen Austin colonists.
Speaker 7: And so there's a lot that points to the fact
Speaker 7: that she may have been the first woman to introduce
Speaker 7: butter and butter businesses into northern Mexico.
Speaker 1: The best things in life, freedom and butter. A huge
Speaker 1: thanks to our special guest, doctor Maria Hamac sofia A
Speaker 1: Bravo and OJ and Leslie Trevigno for sharing their time,
Speaker 1: their family histories, and their expertise. You can find links
Speaker 1: to their work and the episode description. Next week, we'll
Speaker 1: continue exploring the southern route of the Underground Railroad through
Speaker 1: a unique cookbook and Juneteenth, which has been celebrated in
Speaker 1: a community in northern Mexico since the nineteenth century. Well
Speaker 1: welcome doctor Hamak back to the show along with Windy
Speaker 1: Goodlow and Corinata of the Seminole Indian Scouts Cemetery Association.
Speaker 2: Please join us as always, thank you for listening and
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