1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: Even I grew up in South Texas, but in school 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: we're never taught that the underground railroad had a southern 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: route that went through our own backyards. In this special 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: episode of Hungry for History, we'll learn about freedom fighters 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: in Mexico and in Texas, and we'll meet Sylvia Weber, 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: often referred to as the Harriet Tubman of the South, 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: along with her husband John. We'll welcome doctor Maria Hamac, 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: a scholar and historian whose work bridges histories of liberation 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: and abolition, as well as Sofia Brabo and OJ and 10 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: Leslie Trevigno of the Weber Family Preservation Project and ancestors 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: of Sylvia and John Webber. My name is Eva Longoria 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: and I am Mate remez Rajon and welcome to. 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our past and 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: present through food. 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages. 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: From our culture. 18 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: So make yourself at home. E Wen Brocho, everybody, welcome 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: back to Hungary for History. We have a great episode today. 20 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: Many people aren't aware of this, but Mexico abolished slavery 21 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: thirty six years before the United states before before before 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: by its second president after Independenceity Senterero. He was an 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Afro Mestiso. No he yeah, yeah, he was the son 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: of a woman of African descent and a Mestiso. He 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: was president of Mexico and he abolished slavery. And so 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: after this time, after eighteen twenty nine, enslaved Africans from 27 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: the US were fleeing the south and finding freedom and 28 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: refuge in Mexico in the southern route of the underground railroad. 29 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: So this is something that I learned about recently. This 30 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: is not something that I mean, I took Texas history 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: for years in junior high in Ice well ever learned. 32 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: Never learned about this this no, But also I knew 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: this because what I did searching for Mexico when we 34 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: were in Veracruz. That was the main port where a 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: lot of the slave ships came in and they built 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: this neighborhood from the wood of the boats that brought 37 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: them over like they're resilience. 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: We visited that La Waca neighborhood in red ac Cruz, 39 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: which is incredible. But more enslaved people were brought to 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Mexico then to the US, and at one point in 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: history there were more enslaved people in Mexico than in Brazil. 42 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: Between the conquest fifteen nineteen to eighteen twenty nine, when 43 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: slavery was abolished by Cinte Arero, was estimated that about 44 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand slaved Africans were taken to New Spain. 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Right what is now you know Mexico, But this abolition 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: played this really key role in the nation's early history. 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 4: My name is Maria sar Hammock, and I am a 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 4: scholar of a Mexican scholar of like liberation in North America, 49 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 4: and I I'm trying to recover or help recover what 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 4: I argue is the experiences but also the legacies, the 51 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 4: intellectual and physical legacies of black women who engineered channels 52 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 4: of liberation to Mexican spaces. Part of the work that 53 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 4: I do is I argue that the first diaspora that 54 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 4: shaped Mexico was this first diaspora that came in from 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 4: African nations and people that were brought and slaved, and 56 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: how they started fighting for freedom as soon as they 57 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 4: arrived on Mexican soil. You start seeing individuals as Gasparajanga 58 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 4: who escaped and went to the mountains and took a 59 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 4: lot of people with him and started helping others to 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 4: get to the mountains. And it wasn't only until they 61 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 4: made a treaty with the people on the ground, with 62 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 4: the authorities to say okay, they needed assistance to fight 63 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 4: certain battles. So they said, okay, we can help you, 64 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 4: but just know you're going to have to recognize us 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 4: as free people. So we are free, we're no longer enslaved, 66 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 4: and if we do help you were going to you're 67 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 4: going to have to treat us as such. So I 68 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 4: do argue and the histories that I've read, and like 69 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 4: the documents that I have been able to access in 70 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 4: Mexican collections do show this process where people as soon 71 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 4: as they arrived, black women, men and children were fighting 72 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 4: to be free. So this is also engages the notion 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 4: of the freedom fighter. People didn't just arrived enslaved and 74 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: we're happy being enslaved. That never happened consistently. People were 75 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: escaping consistently, consistently, people were running in Mexican soil. So 76 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 4: by the eighteen hundred, so many people in Mexico who 77 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 4: had been enslaved had ran or escaped or maneuver ways 78 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 4: to be free. That by eighteen hundreds. So by eighteen 79 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 4: hundreds and eighteen ten and the Mexican independence movement began, 80 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 4: most people, most black Mexicans, were free. The number of 81 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 4: people with that remain enslaved was significantly lower by eighteen hundred. 82 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 4: So the history that I try to highlight that is 83 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 4: part of this first diaspora is this, when independence begins, 84 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 4: the independence movement begins in Mexico, you have a large 85 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 4: population of free black Mexicans or free black people that 86 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 4: live in Mexico. 87 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: Because at this. 88 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 4: Time in eighteen ten, when Girito the Lord has happened 89 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 4: and miguelid Algo rose up and morellos rose up, Mexico 90 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 4: was part of Spain, but it was still Mexican soil, 91 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 4: but it was under the Spanish crown, so it wasn't 92 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 4: necessarily the Republic of Mexico yet. But in this era, 93 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 4: the majority of people in Mexico were free, only a 94 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 4: small number remain enslaved. The people who are leading this 95 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 4: movement for independence, a lot of these individuals who are 96 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 4: fighting at the forefront for the insurgent movement, which is 97 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 4: for freedom for Mexico and independent Mexico from Spain were 98 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 4: black Mexicans, people who were either born enslaved themselves or 99 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 4: whose parents had been born enslaved, or whose grandparents had 100 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 4: been born enslaved. So they had a vested interest to 101 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 4: fight for freedom, for freedom against the Spanish rule, right, 102 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 4: but also to say, okay, we're fighting for the freedom 103 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 4: of this new nation, whatever that will be. But also 104 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 4: we want to make sure that if we're fighting for 105 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 4: freedom for this nation, we want to make sure that 106 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 4: this nation has freedom for our children. So we want 107 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 4: to make sure that our children are going to be 108 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 4: free in this new nation we're fighting for. And so 109 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 4: these are the individuals who start fighting to make sure 110 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 4: that the slavery is fully abolished. And some of the 111 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 4: leaders that come up with this movement is Vicente Guerero 112 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 4: is our first Afro Mexican president, who was the one 113 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: who decreed the abolition of slavery in eighteen twenty nine. 114 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 4: His grandparents were born enslaved and so he had a 115 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 4: vested interest. And so that goes to show that people 116 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 4: who were fighting for the independence of Mexico had backgrounds 117 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 4: and had vested interest. So they had black roots and 118 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 4: so they were vested in the ideas of freedom and 119 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 4: you know, personal freedom, and that's what shaped Mexican abolitionist 120 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: processes as early as Mexico secured independence from Spain, which 121 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 4: was eighteen twenty one. So abolition was always at the 122 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 4: forefront because these black Mexican leaders as well. It also 123 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 4: indigenous after indigenous and indigenous people, they were at the 124 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 4: forefront of this movement. So I argue that this is 125 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 4: the first diaspora that shaped Mexico because a lot of 126 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 4: the times when we talk about Mexico and what Mexicans are, 127 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 4: we don't consider that Mexico has black roots or that 128 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 4: Mexicans have black roots. But most of the leaders who 129 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 4: fought for independence were black, or Afro indigenous or Afro mestizo. 130 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 4: So the roots are there and the records don't lie. 131 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: Right. 132 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll talk about Sylvia Weber, the 133 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: Harriet Tubman of Texas and speak with some of her ancestors. 134 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: That's after the break, stay with us. Who was Sylvia Weber? 135 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: Was she at Texan? 136 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: Now Sylvia Weber is fascinating, right, So where there's oppression, 137 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: there's a fight for freedom, whether it's Mexico, whether it's 138 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: the US, or wherever it is. There's a president, there's freedom, 139 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of women led the liberation process. Harriet Tubman, 140 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: of course, is the one that most people in the 141 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: States are familiar with. But Sylvia Weber was one of 142 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: these women who helped enslaved people cross to Mexico. She 143 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: was born in Spanish Florida. From Florida, she was taken 144 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: to what is now Austin. So she came to Texas's 145 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: property of John Crier when she was nineteen, and there 146 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: she met a man named John Weber, who was a 147 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: white business partner of John Criers. So they fell in 148 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: love while still enslaved. She gave birth to three children, 149 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: and then eventually she gained her freedom papers and she 150 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: and John could not legally marry in Texas. But actually 151 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: there was one person that with them. He was a 152 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: Catholic priest named Father Muldan, so he married them. And 153 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: imagine this eighteen hundreds, eighteen thirties, an inter racial couple 154 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: inandace scandalous, It's crazy. So she was described as intelligent 155 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: and kind and welcoming. She was known for her good deeds, 156 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: for her charity work. Her house was always open, you know, 157 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: to anyone, and you know, human being was ever sent away, 158 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: and nobody left their home, you know, hungry. 159 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: They ended up getting a little tired of the discrimination 160 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: in Central Texas and they moved to the Rio Grand Valley, 161 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: which is near the US Mexico border, and their ranch, 162 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 2: which was called the Weber Ranch, was a stop in 163 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 2: the underground railroad. Like I wish I knew this history, right, 164 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: They helped I know, this is so fascinating. They helped 165 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: fugitives find you know, safe haven in Mexico because again 166 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: Mexico abolished slavery. They built it ferry landing and licensed 167 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: a ferry stop that led directly from their home on 168 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: the Rio Grand to Mexico. And she was just the 169 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: staunch anti slavery advocate through the Civil War, and you know, 170 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: her and her family stood against the Confederacy, who, by 171 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: the way, persecuted them for being Union sympathizers. And then 172 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: they eventually fled to Mexico in the eighteen sixties to 173 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: escape the Confederacy and they did not return until eighteen 174 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: eighty two, and then John died soon after that. 175 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: They went through our backyards and we spoke with some 176 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: of their ancestors, and they didn't even know that they 177 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: were ancestors of this woman. So it's this part of 178 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: history that's just kept such hush hush for soul along. 179 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: It makes me so angry and I'm so cheated that 180 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: I was not taught this in Texas history and that 181 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: it's not taught in the in the US. But so 182 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: there were not a lot of written records, like they 183 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: couldn't say, oh, so and so a person is going 184 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: to cross and so and so in person's because it 185 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: was dangerous. But people like John Ford known as rip Ford, 186 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: this Confederate colonel and Texas ranger during the Civil War. 187 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: He wrote about them like, oh damn it, this is 188 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: Sylvia and John Webber. He went out of his way 189 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: to make their lives hell. 190 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: That's first of all, none of this is in Texas 191 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: history books. And also kind of the false narrative of 192 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: the Alamo. This is such a I think, a monument 193 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: of freedom, but in reality it's the opposite. Because Texas 194 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: was was Mexico and slavery had already been abolished, and 195 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: the white settlers in Texas knew that if they wanted 196 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: their economy to grow, which was the three c's cotton, copper, 197 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: and cattle, they were going to need enslave labor, so 198 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: they refused to assimilate to Mexico and this resulted in 199 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: Texas revolting against Mexico. But we're taught like a remember 200 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: the Alamo, it's a monument to freedom. But in reality 201 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: it was a country defending its values, which was do 202 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: not enslaved people. You know, speak the language, by the way. 203 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 2: That was one of the requisites was speak Spanish. Nobody 204 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: they refused to learn Spanish, and they said be Catholic, 205 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 2: by the way. That was one of them. And these 206 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: were wasp white Anglo Saxons, and they were like, we're 207 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: not gonna be Catholic, We're not gonna speak Spanish, and 208 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: we're going to keep our slaves. And so part of this, 209 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 2: you know, rebranding meant erasing important figures in Texas and 210 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: South Texas well. We sat down with Leslie Dutcher Trevigno, 211 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: president of the Weber Family Preservation Project and wife of 212 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: Oj Trevigno, a descendant of the Webers. 213 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 3: The Webers were pretty well known. I mean, there's a 214 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 3: town called Weberville outside of Travis, Like it's in Travis County, 215 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: sixteen miles south of Boston, and they were well known 216 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 3: to have helped people, and that's actually in several different accounts, 217 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 3: given they were union sympathizers. In fact, so much so 218 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 3: that four during the Civil War went out of his 219 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: way to find them and arrest them in the Rio 220 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: Grand where they were living in Texas at that time 221 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 3: after they moved, and they stuck in his cross so 222 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 3: badly that they're actually mentioned by name in his very 223 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: long winded autobiography that he wrote. And so it is there. 224 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: It's just been very intentionally kind of washed over to 225 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: make it go away, because Texas has done a master 226 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: job of rebranding itself in terms of cowboys, trills, drives, rodeos, 227 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 3: that kind of thing, to erase its history that is 228 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 3: so entrenched in slavery. That's what this economy Texas was 229 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 3: built on. That economy, and Austin said Texas must be 230 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 3: a slave country, and so that was the very foundation 231 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: of it. And the Webers are there and they're mentioned. 232 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: It's just, like I said, been very overlooked intentionally, even 233 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 3: so much so that descendants weren't aware of their own ancestry. Sadly, 234 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 3: as things keep going the way they are, I think 235 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: it might stay that way. If you know, the powers 236 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: that be have their way. 237 00:14:54,840 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 5: I'm a fifth generation descendant from so In John Webber 238 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 5: and also the secretary of the Weber Family Preservation Project. 239 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 5: Sylvia was brought into Texas through her enslaver and then 240 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 5: John also came down through Texas because he was a 241 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 5: big tobacco smuggler, all right, so he kind of was 242 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 5: working his way south and that was just kind of 243 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 5: part of his route and what he was doing, and 244 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 5: settled into Texas, and then I believe we have documented 245 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 5: somewhere around eighteen twenty nine, I think is somewhere where 246 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 5: we kind of estimate that John and Sylvia met and 247 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 5: kind of started their relationship and started having children, you know, 248 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 5: right around that time, you know a little bit after that, 249 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 5: while she was still enslaved, right, they had three children 250 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 5: while she was still enslaved by John Cryer. And this was, 251 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 5: like I said, between eighteen twenty nine and eighteen thirty four, 252 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 5: and then in eighteen thirty four, June eleventh, eighteen thirty 253 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 5: four is when they secured her freedom from John Cryer. 254 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 5: And that's where those were the freedom papers that Maria 255 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 5: found when she was working on her you know, doctor 256 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 5: thesis at the University of Texas. And I mean, that's 257 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 5: that was an amazing find because that has really helped 258 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 5: us find so much more and open the door for 259 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 5: us finding that information into where we are, you know today, 260 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 5: because there's kind of so much in there that you 261 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 5: can read, you know, in those papers, you know, the 262 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 5: the ask you know, for for her freedom and that 263 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 5: of her three children at the time were two other 264 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 5: children under the age of three, a male and a 265 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 5: female under the age of three was the ask. Now 266 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 5: inside of those papers, what they worked in was if 267 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 5: they did not pay in children or in life or life, 268 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 5: then they had their land up for collateral right. And 269 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 5: by that time they had already established their Weberville land, 270 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 5: which at that time was called Weber's Prairie. But they 271 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 5: had already established that land, and that was somewhere in 272 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 5: the three thousand and five thousand acres somewhere that in 273 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 5: that range. So it was quite a bit of land 274 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 5: that they put up for collateral right. And that's kind 275 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 5: of what we knew for a little while. And then 276 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 5: again Maria through her work found papers where John Weber 277 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 5: forfeited the land to John Cryer as part of this 278 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 5: agreement and fulfilling these freedom papers. After that, you know, 279 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 5: that's you know again eighteen thirty four, right. Then they 280 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 5: were in Weberville until eighteen fifty, which is when they 281 00:17:54,760 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 5: signed over those that land over to Crier. They you know, 282 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 5: from eighteen thirty four eighteen fifty, they were in there. 283 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 5: They got a tutor, they were tutoring their children. They 284 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 5: ended up having another eight nine children. I think they 285 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 5: had thirteen untilal twelve survived to adulthood, so you know, 286 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 5: they had several children, you know, after that between eighteen 287 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 5: thirty four and eighteen fifty and they got kicked out 288 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 5: of their own town because as more white settlers coming 289 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 5: in and realizing, you know, this is an interracial couple. 290 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 5: They are tutoring their children exactly right, and you know, 291 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 5: how dare they you know, even want to educate their children, right, 292 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 5: And so educating the children, the tutor started receiving death threats, 293 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 5: you know, I mean, it was just you know, not 294 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 5: good conditions. So they started making their way down to 295 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 5: the valley and settled in Donna, Texas in eighteen fifty 296 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 5: three is where they settled and purchased I think again 297 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 5: over eight thousand acres of land and a big portion 298 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 5: that had and it was again right along the river 299 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 5: banks there in the real Grande Leslie has researched and 300 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 5: the doctor Hammock of research is that the knowledge that 301 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 5: Sylvia had and brought right from her time of being 302 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 5: enslaved and having to work with you know, flat bottom 303 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 5: boats and stuff like that, that was the education that 304 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 5: she used and the knowledge that she used, you know, 305 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 5: across the river to help you know, free enslave people. 306 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: And he talks about this one drop rule, like, did 307 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: you know about this one drop rule? 308 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: That's what this role was about, was this huge discrimination 309 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: in the twentieth century because they said, you know, a 310 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: single drop of black blood makes a person black. 311 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is why a lot of people like 312 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: oj Devigno and Sophia Bravo, another ancestor of the Webers 313 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: that we spoke about, they didn't know about this because oh, 314 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: if there's one drop rule, so it would be dangerous. 315 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: They decided to then just keep it quiet. Oh you're 316 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: part black and you're park Mexican like this is it 317 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: was just it was just too much, so they just 318 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: kept this history quiet. So there were so many freedom 319 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: fighters and we can't mention them. All and also even 320 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: if we wanted to, so many of them will never 321 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: know by name. But it's also I think really interesting 322 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: to note that the Webers lived near Matilda and Nathaniel Jackson, 323 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: another interracial couple also in the Rio Grande Valley that 324 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: were known to help fugitive slaves and asylum seekers. 325 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: Well, just last year, the Jackson Ranch near the banks 326 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: of the Rio Grande in present day Hidalgo County was 327 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: recognized by the National Park Service as a historical significant 328 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: part of its Underground Railroad Network to Freedom program. That's 329 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: pretty cool. So as part of the journey, many who 330 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: traveled South to Freedom like that left the United States 331 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 2: and went into Mexico. They carried with them food that 332 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: they could use to barter or trade with with the 333 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 2: indigenous people or the Mexican people along the way for 334 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: safe passage. And this included bacon, corn meal, and peaches. 335 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: I don't know there was peach trees in Texas. 336 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: Trees, Yeah, peach trees were introduced to Florida by Spaniards 337 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: in the mid fifteen hundreds. So actually, if we go 338 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: way way back, peaches are originally from China, but they 339 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: were brought over like so many other things. They were 340 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: brought over. They became a staple across the South by 341 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, and in Texas they were abundant in 342 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds, and Sylvia Weber and her family 343 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: were known to have sold peaches for sustenance. 344 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: Peach leaves were also used medicinally to help heal wounds, 345 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 2: and they have anti microbial properties. And also, you know, 346 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: we know canning food obviously prolongs it. And we've talked 347 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 2: about the history of of canning, but canned foods were 348 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 2: instrumental to slaves escaping to the South via the underground railroad, 349 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: because then they could have more to eat. 350 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 6: They would do a lot of canning. They used to 351 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 6: process a lot of Canyon used to have can They 352 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 6: used to can all the tomatoes and onions and cabbages. 353 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 6: And because that's the way we would grow around that ranch, 354 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 6: around those farms, and they would can them and they 355 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 6: would put them away and when people come along, you know, 356 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 6: that's what they would give them. You know, they would 357 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 6: come and it was yeah, because canyon was I mean 358 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 6: it was I was even part of that. They used 359 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 6: to make us go good, go and wash the jars 360 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 6: and my grandma. They used to beat an assembly line 361 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 6: of people just cannying those vegetables and putting them away. 362 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 6: And I would tell Grandma, why do you want so many? 363 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 6: And she's like, you don't ask that, just go wash 364 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 6: the jar. And we're like, okay, yes, but it was 365 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 6: part of our life. You would can, and they would can, 366 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 6: and they would can. I mean they would. They would 367 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 6: spend cannying and canyon for you know, for what I 368 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 6: do not know that we were not allowed to ask. 369 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 6: My name is Sophia Brabo and I am the vice 370 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 6: president of the nonprofit that we have that we're still 371 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,719 Speaker 6: preserving the Weber family. I am a direct descendant of 372 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 6: the Weber I'm the caretaker of that Weber cemetery where 373 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 6: all our relatives are buried. And I'm the one that 374 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 6: if you want a tour, or you want any information, 375 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 6: or you want to go visit, I'm the one that 376 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 6: you get a hold of. And I'll be more than 377 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 6: glad to go take you out there. I do it 378 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 6: to whoever asked. 379 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 3: I'll go. 380 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 6: You know, I will find time, I will schedule time, 381 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 6: and you know you're I will be more than glad 382 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 6: to tour you to that cemetery. My grandma was the 383 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 6: one that everybody used to go visit, even oh, mom, 384 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 6: Mom used to go visit, and his grandparents used to 385 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 6: go visit my grandmother because she was like an elder. 386 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 6: And you would hear those stories, oh you know this 387 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 6: and that. But you were not allowed to even claim 388 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 6: that you were part of the black community. You know, 389 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 6: there was a very hush hush situation. Because of that situe, 390 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 6: you know, I guess it were scared that if you 391 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 6: were part of the well, they were Webers. Of course, 392 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 6: my grandmother was Marcella Weber. But they would never say 393 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 6: what why there were Webers or why, you know, they 394 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 6: would just claim John, John Webber, you know John. But 395 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 6: Sylvia was always left behind because Sylvia was the one 396 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 6: there was an African American. But everybody, well, I'm related 397 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 6: to John. John was a white boy. He was a 398 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 6: white man. So everybody, oh, yeah, I'm white, you know, 399 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 6: because of John. But they never said poor Sylvia was 400 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 6: always left to one side. 401 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 3: You know. 402 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 6: Oh my god, you are not allowed to say you 403 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 6: are black, especially in South Texas, South Texas, you were 404 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 6: not allowed. 405 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: Endless histories and culinary traditions have been passed down through generations, 406 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: but many names were never recorded. Thankfully, people like doctor 407 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: Marie Hamac searching for these stories and sharing them with 408 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: the world. One such story is about a woman who 409 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: may have started the butter industry in northern Mexico. Here 410 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: is doctor Hamak sharing this story. 411 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 4: We don't know her name. I have been looking for 412 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 4: several years in the Mexican archives to try to find 413 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 4: her name. I haven't been that lucky, but I've been 414 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 4: able to retrace some of her journey, like to Situarya, 415 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 4: where she was from in Mississippi, and then I don't 416 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 4: know how she made it to Mexico, but when she 417 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: was in Mexican what she was doing. And there's accounts 418 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 4: that talk about how she was the only person in 419 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 4: the market in again in mont Cloba, in the open 420 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 4: market that was selling butter and people were like wow, 421 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: like we've never had butter. This butter is delicious. 422 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 3: What is you know? 423 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 4: And people stop and like this is delicious, and any 424 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 4: other she was also selling other dairy products, but tracing 425 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 4: that story, it was like, Okay, where she had been born, 426 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 4: they made butter as well. It was the enslay people 427 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 4: that were forced to make the butter, and so she had, 428 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 4: you know, she knew how to make it, and so 429 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 4: it was only logical if she, however, she made it 430 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 4: to northern Mexico that she knew she could make a 431 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 4: living there by introducing this with everybody else was using lard, 432 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 4: and there were people that were only the upper classes 433 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 4: had butter like in other places, but not necessarily butter. 434 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 4: They had other types, but lard was deep thing that 435 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 4: was used. And I tried, I did do my due 436 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 4: diligence to ask other scholars who work on food history 437 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 4: if they knew anything about battery in Mexico. And really 438 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 4: nobody has done an in depth study on who introduced 439 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 4: better in Mexico. And I believe that it was this 440 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 4: black woman from Mississippi who was free being free in 441 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 4: northern Mexico in the eighteen thirties. Butter was being made 442 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 4: also on the other side in Texas as early as 443 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 4: eighteen twenty eight by the enslaved that were brought by 444 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 4: the Stephen Austin colonists. 445 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 7: And so there's a lot that points to the fact 446 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 7: that she may have been the first woman to introduce 447 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 7: butter and butter businesses into northern Mexico. 448 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: The best things in life, freedom and butter. A huge 449 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: thanks to our special guest, doctor Maria Hamac sofia A 450 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: Bravo and OJ and Leslie Trevigno for sharing their time, 451 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: their family histories, and their expertise. You can find links 452 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: to their work and the episode description. Next week, we'll 453 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: continue exploring the southern route of the Underground Railroad through 454 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: a unique cookbook and Juneteenth, which has been celebrated in 455 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: a community in northern Mexico since the nineteenth century. Well 456 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: welcome doctor Hamak back to the show along with Windy 457 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: Goodlow and Corinata of the Seminole Indian Scouts Cemetery Association. 458 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 2: Please join us as always, thank you for listening and 459 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: joining us today. 460 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: If you have any dishes or foods you want to 461 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: hear about on this show, send us a message. Bye everyone. 462 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 2: Hungary for History is a Hyphenit media production in partnership 463 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 2: with Iheart's Michael Bura podcast network. 464 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 465 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.