WEBVTT - Ep. 25: Russell Cunningham 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:05.800 Hey, everybody, welcome Episode number twenty five The Hunting Collective. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:11.320 I'm Ben O'Brien and today continuing our tour of Texas 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:15.120 as my family leaves to head north to Montana, and 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:19.760 this tour stop is close to my home in Tripping Springs, Texas. 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.760 And Russell Cunningham is is our man today, and he's 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:31.280 gonna tell us about archaeology, about amateur archaeology, but about 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:36.760 a passion for the history of his state of Texas, 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:42.840 his home place of Dripping Springs, and his lineage, which 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:47.080 is hunting. Here's a man who has found thousands, maybe 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.519 one of the largest amateur collections of arrowheads in the 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:55.720 United States. He has collected artifacts from around the West. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.440 He has collected paintings, and he has collecting art that 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.480 all point back to one place. That point back. They 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.920 point back to his appreciation history and of the cultures 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.200 that led us to where we are now, most specifically 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.880 the cultures that lived the place he's lived his entire life. Uh, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.920 He's as much a part of this land as anyone else. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.640 His family has cultivated this land over many generations. He 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.480 has lived there for most of his entire life, and 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.959 now he's raising his kids there and it just so 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.880 happens to be you can go pretty close to their 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.600 backyard and fine air heads that are three thousand years 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.199 old and speak to us about a culture of people 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:42.679 that live in Texas. So enjoy my friend Russell his 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.520 amateur archaeology career and the collection that he has a 0:01:46.600 --> 0:02:10.520 mass that is impressive. Episode number come in at all, right, Russell, 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.400 this is your first podcast ever, first one virgin version. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:16.359 Well we'll get you through it. We've got a lot 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.880 of interesting stuff to cover, of course. Um, but first, 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.560 I always like to have people describe where we are 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.200 because we're having a video here, So give us a 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.240 quick description of the room or sitting in. So be 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:29.920 as detail as you please, because there's a lot of 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.399 stuff in here. Well, we're in uh, my dream home 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.640 on the ranch I grew up on. Um. The room 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.120 is uh was planning to be the Indian Room, and 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.880 so growing up, all the artifacts that I had been finding, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.200 I had a dream of putting them in a room 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.280 which would be someone's similar to a study. But I've 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.399 done all the study and I need to do so 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.840 it's uh, all the walls have either have you know 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.919 either great big mule deer or pre reservation, bow and 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:14.320 arrow quivers, UM, arrows with trade points, lots of arrowheads 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.640 that we found on the ranch. UM, lots of stones, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.760 grinding stones, UM, a couple of old bison heads that 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:27.840 that predate the bison, bison, and uh, mainly just artifacts 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.720 that my family and I have collected over the years. Yeah. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.200 Would you label yourself an artifact collector? How would you 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.920 label yourself as a in general in that space? Yeah, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:42.520 I guess of amateur archaeologists of sorts, but yeah, a 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:48.880 collector definitely. I just can't get enough of the prehistoric hunter? 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.400 Is that what drove you to collecting? I mean, would 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.880 you call it a collection or more just an exploration 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.680 of one the place you live, this ranch, which is beautiful, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.000 but to just kind of that connection, like you say 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.680 to our ancestors. Yeah, both, I mean it's I love 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:10.240 to collect, um. I like to to show people what 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.920 we find, what we're looking for out here, what we're seeing. 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.520 There's so few people that actually get to experience what 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.239 we get to experience. And my kids, Um, my kids 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.440 are six and nine, two girls, and they found more 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.920 airheads than most men will ever find. And uh, we're 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.120 just in it so deep, it's just part of it's 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.120 just a passion that I have and it's and it's 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.240 the same passion that I have for hunting. It's it's 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.400 hard to describe and less you know you're a you're 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.680 a true hunter yourself. Well, I think when you see 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.839 what's in front of us on this table or hopefully 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.680 all let folks get a good look at the way 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.000 that you dig, what you dig for, but then at 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.320 the same time, how you display it in the reverence 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.760 with which I mean in this room you're just playing 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.240 things you've found. And we were talking before this. I 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:07.479 grew up my dad and I uh relicanted my entire 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.279 childhood and he had the same kind of way of 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.480 displaying his fines. It was mostly Civil War era artifacts things, 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.200 but the same reverence that you could see. And sitting 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:20.640 in this room, you can tell by the way you've 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.440 displayed things you found, the reverence you have for it, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.040 how important it is to you that it's appreciated. Um, 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.520 it's evident in these displays. Well, thank you. It's a 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.080 lot of time has gone into two finding the points 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.919 and then like you said, just the way they're displayed. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:43.680 It's it's uh I almost want people to think when 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.159 they come in here, to be able to put themselves 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.039 back five, six, eight thousand years ago and did look 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.800 at each point and wonder where that point has been, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.719 who made it, the weather that was going on at 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:03.040 the time, in the struggles that those people's that were 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.880 we're having at the time that uh or or not struggling. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.120 I mean, the people probably had a lot better than 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:13.240 we did. And anyway, yeah, each piece, I mean, as 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.479 you take them, we'll go through kind of how you 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.680 came to to to be an amateur archaeologist and how 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.960 you came to be on this piece of land. But 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.200 we we went for a little ride to look at 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.640 one of your uh sites where you're you're currently finding heads, arrowheads, 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:34.039 and it's clear to me that all those things are 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.599 relevant to you when you find a piece. The first 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:38.960 thing you said to me when I picked up my 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.840 first arrowhead over there was the last time somebody had 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:43.760 their hands on that was probably three thousand years ago. 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.039 And that's um something I hope it's not lost on me. 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.279 And I even looking around here, I'm geeking out and 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.000 want to ask question about every little piece of stone 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.039 that you got here, and so I hope everybody listening 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.279 to this can can realize the amount of history that 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.159 is built into hunting, the amount of history that is 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.880 built into what we're doing. Uh, it's built in our 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.200 genetic code, for lack of a better way to describe it. 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.360 And so yeah, this being even for your little girls 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.840 to grow up in a place where they're so connected 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.640 to three thousand years prior is really unbelievable to me. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.680 So that's one of the reasons why I wanted to 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.160 talk to you, just to to find out why or 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.400 how you got here. Maybe you don't even know why, 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.920 but how you got to this point in your life. Well, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:38.280 I think if if anyone had the opportunity, um, I 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.000 think we all of the hunters would would be in 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.120 this room seeking out over and they probably have a 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.680 room just like it if they had that that opportunity. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:51.960 And and uh, you and I are talking about um 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.520 earlier that my philosophy in life is to get off 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.760 the couch. You cannot you can't do all this if 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:02.840 you're sitting on the couch. And but the d n 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:08.600 A that we share with these ancient hunters is what 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.560 drives us, and everyone shares it, whether you know it 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.560 comes out more so, and others is evident, it certainly does. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:23.400 But I can't imagine just you know, seeing where these 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.840 people lived and seeing and picking up an era head, 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.920 not just being completely intrigued with what went on five 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.200 thousand years ago in this area and what was each 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.600 specific style of point made for. You know, some of 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.800 these points are seven inches long and some of them 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:46.360 are seven millimeters long. Yeah, it's it's unbelievable, the variances 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.040 and in all the heads that you have here, in 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.360 all the artifacts, but just the variances in the people, 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.960 in the way they lived, by by generation hunter, you know, 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.959 by type of people a boy, where they lived. It's 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.320 it's unbelievable. I mean, there's you've got arrowheads here that 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.640 are the size of quarters, and then you've got points 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.120 here that are as long as you know, for lack 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.439 of a better term, like the snickers bar, as long 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.680 as one of those six inches long. And so every 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.480 one of these pieces I think is an answer to 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:19.439 a question, or at least some evidence that will help 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.640 you answer a question that we all should have was 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.319 just how does this? How did this happen? You know, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.680 it's I think maybe fool hardy or it's some fool's 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.400 errand to try to compare our modern hunting to this 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.400 in a direct way. It's so far removed. Uh, these 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.280 ancient hunters are so far removed from us, but they 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.000 have so much to teach us that, um, yeah, we could. 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:42.840 We could talk about this all day. But take me 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.559 through how you came to be on this land, your 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.840 family's history, and then we'll start talking about specific some 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.240 of these really interesting pieces. So when we when I 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.319 was about ten, we moved out because our our little 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:01.640 farm out and uh brown Drock, Texas, which is north 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.520 of Austin, uh town, kind of got a little close. 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.600 So we decided to move further out. And we found 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.600 this area out southwest of Austin in the hill country, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.920 dripping springs area. Um, we're able to it was so 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.960 far out back then it just big, you know, a 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.680 bunch of cedar. And so we're able to get this 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.599 ranch and and if over the last thirty years have 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.679 been improving it, removing cedar, developing the springs, and and 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:35.240 as we've been doing so. Um, it wasn't long after 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.280 I was about eleven years old when we found our 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.200 first true mound, is what we call it it's an 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:45.800 Indian camp and started finding points and have been just 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:52.840 completely uh taken by the thought and the the chase 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:57.800 and the what's next, what's behind the next rock? And um, 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.559 what am I going to find next? And what were 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.400 these in the is doing and the whole deal and 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.840 so um. The ranch is about seven hundred acres and 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.040 we have almost a mile of Barton Creek running through. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.520 We have both sides of Barton and then um every 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.360 several hundred yards there's a feeder creek that's spring fed. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:22.120 So it's just the perfect environment to camp nowaday too 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.040 and back then for these Indians to survive. The great 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.959 water um, and that's the key, is the water source. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.560 And you know we're we're on the near the Edwards 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:38.480 Plateau and in the the bison were roaming through here, 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.880 probably not as much as a little south of us 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.400 because it's a little more hilly, but they had lots 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:50.200 of deer, They had plenty to eat. And uh, you know, 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.120 every site that we find is just a beautiful camp 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.320 site that we'd want to hang out in. No great 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.640 cover and just beautiful, big old trees and um. So 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:05.080 the lys Um had this place for you know, thirty 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.640 years or so. And and that's what we do. We hunt, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.600 we fish, and we look for airheads. And we found 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.720 a lot of thousands. I would saying how many totally 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:19.200 you think you found your lifetime. I upwards of five thousand. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.960 I would imagine on this property UM between here and 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.880 and uh within five miles of here. I get people 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.600 that will call mean and have sites that you know, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.160 we'll look at. But have you ever took stock at 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.559 your entire collection of the family's collection is to how 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.719 big it is or or where it ranks, and the 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.080 you know, list of biggest airhead collections are most established. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.079 There's there's a huge subcultures. Now that we've gotten into it, 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.360 I've gotten to know some of some of the people 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:54.360 that have the biggest collections of perishables, cave finds, um 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.480 in the nation, and we've been we've we've my family 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.840 and I've been able to see their private collections, which 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.080 the Smithsonian wants lots of the pieces that they have, 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:08.880 and frankly most of the private collections have the best stuff. UM. 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.360 But you know, as far as an amateur, you know, 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.160 I've I've probably certainly you have one of the biggest 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:21.240 collections in this area. But just because there's it's hard 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.640 work finding these and uh, there's not many people that 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.960 will get off the couch get it done off the couch. Yeah, 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:33.960 I mean you started hunting and finding air heads around 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:35.360 the same time when you were a kid. I mean, 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.600 it was all just what you did. Yeah, that's what 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.680 we're We my brothers two years old or nine, and 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.600 we would be um, you know, like most kids. Then 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.280 nowadays it's a different story. But we would be gone, 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.040 son up would either be riding horses or we'd be 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.120 digging airheads, and Dad would pretty much know where to 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.240 find us. He'd either we'd be down there digging or 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.240 if the horses were gone, he'd see us at dark, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.080 you know. But yeah, so that's lots of time spent. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.240 And it's great, great family stuff. I mean, my brother 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.280 and I have great memories digging and and and now 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.439 my my little girls and my wife love it. The 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.440 girls are making mudpies and and my wife is is 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.240 coming through the dirt with me. And yeah, it's a 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.160 it's a neat deal. Yeah. No, it's amazing, um to 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:23.840 see the work you put into it. I mean, it's 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.360 easy to come into a room like this and and 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.400 kind of feel the artistry of it, your own artistry 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.520 and creating the presentation of the stuff, but the artistry 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.920 of the folks that made this so many generations to go. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.080 It's easy to see that. But then we go out 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.560 to your dig site, to your mound, and you see 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.920 all the work you put in in the Texas summertime. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.040 That's amazing. Yeah that's hot, man, it is hot. And 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.880 we come back just drenched. But each each point is 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.800 just you ever sat down and had a whiskey in 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.560 this room thought why? Why? Really? Why? You know, you 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.720 know why? It's fun, it's you know, we can talk 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:01.200 about why, but why why? The passion is it gets 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.600 pretty deep in here, uh, us coming and sitting here 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.560 with with those that are as passionate as you are 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.080 about honey. And that's when it gets neat is when uh, 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.720 you know, we we start thinking about, um, yeah, why 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:18.920 why we're why are we here? Um? You know, in 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.840 a sense, we're here to serve the Lord, that's one reason. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.640 But how but why did he? Why do we have cars? 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:29.320 And these guys we're banging out flint, I mean, um, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.960 they were hard workers and and um, I can't imagine 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.840 living like they did, but I think that they probably 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.440 had it easier and we do. But why why were 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.200 they here? And why so many points? Why did they 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.880 lay this perfect point down that has not a scratch 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.480 on it? Yeah? Yeah, I mean each one of these. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.040 We're both holding point arrowheads now, and I wanted to 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.920 because you could just look at this and each little 0:15:54.920 --> 0:16:00.520 piece of it, each detail tells something about someone now somewhere, 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:02.600 and if you let it speak to you, I'm sure 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.160 it does. And so I imagine I knew the answer 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.560 to that question. But for for folks listening to think 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.480 about um while you're out there on a Sunday afternoon 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.440 sweating your balls off, thinking what does it mean at 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.480 the end of the day? Yeah? What? What? What gives 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.520 me the drive to go the I mean it's not 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:24.160 gold these things. Someone may come in and offer me of, 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.320 you know, hefty chunk of change, but it wouldn't It 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.240 would be essentially getting paid fifty cents an hour for 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.240 all the hours I put into it. I mean, it's 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.120 they're priceless to me, but they're not really worth all 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.920 that much about your Your dad does he still? Does? 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.160 He get after it? Pretty good? Dad? Loves, loves to 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.120 see it and talk about it and sit in here 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:50.360 and and uh and have a t or something, um, 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.240 and and look at it. And he feels that the 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.160 gravity of it, and he can feel the the culture, 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.960 but he's he rather not go dig and the heat. 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.000 He never has really cared much too. I don't think 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.040 he's ever found a narrow head. But it's cool because 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.280 he gets to live that through us. So essentially he 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.400 didn't have to. He can he can have a cold 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.920 beer and not sweat and still get the same enjoyment 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:20.159 out of it. That's smart. Yeah, that's smart. Um, So 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.720 we kind of you know, we know what you're doing here, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.400 and then can we'll just talk more about why. Um? 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.880 But how I mean, when you're leving you find an arrowhead, Yeah, 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.000 it's cool, right, pick it up. That's a cool arrowhead. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.200 Take me through how you have gotten to the point 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.480 where you're out there with a giant sifter and a 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.320 cat and you're digging. You know, how big was the 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.639 sight we were just at that was probably a hundred 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.040 yards by sixty yards? And how deeply you dig when 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:55.119 you dig, well, we'll get through about five ft average, 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.480 I'd say, so that's a lot. Take me through how 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.639 you get you know, obviously your passion will lead you 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.000 to that this extreme way that you do it. But 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.280 so when I was a kid finding them and digging 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.159 the excitement of really I would I was like, you know, 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.320 I really would like to know who made this and 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.400 and all, But really it's like how many can I get? 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.240 I'm gonna come home with ten and see what kind 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.760 of different shapes. I knew nothing about the cultures. The 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.679 shape of the base kind of tells you what culture 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.200 it is, how old the point is, like the Clovis 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.480 has the flute and it we don't have any Clovis 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.680 on the ranch, but I'm sure they're here, but we 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.119 hadn't found him. But then, you know, as I got older, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.760 started reading more about it, going to the shows, and 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:50.359 learning about how they cooked and uh what they ate, 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.960 how they actually hafted or put the point onto the 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.520 to the stick and the the shaft and the ladle 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.600 versus the bow and arrow, and really getting into big 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.240 and deep and reading and and getting with the big 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:10.800 wigs in the in the the culture of this artifact, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.800 hunting and learning so much more about it, and and 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.159 the more I know now the more I want to 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.119 get out in the field and see the evidence of this. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.880 And so we're talking about how they cooked. And in 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.080 this country, they they would cook a lot like like 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.080 the Mexicans cook caprito. They do a big hole, build 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.800 a big fire, coals on it, put uh, put in 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.639 big stones, and then cover it with grass acorns than grass, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.440 and then cover that with dirt and let it cook 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.120 for up to seventy two hours. And they'd come out 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.120 and the rocks would be broken up and what's called 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.440 midden and over the over the different cook cycles that 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.040 would just build a big mound of broken rock. And 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.159 so the sites are a lot easier to find in 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.439 this country than there are North Texas or than they 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:05.600 are and in Arizona or Colorado or east and so 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.600 it's not it's hard to find the sites. And so 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.240 um once for once we find the site, then we 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.399 can kind of we know where most of the points 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.639 are and and uh we can kind of go to 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.479 them and see what they've been eating. Lots of bison bones, 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:28.600 lots of tune, fox, kyote, jaws, rabbits, all kinds of 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.560 neat stuff. It's unbelievable, is there, you know? As you 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.119 go through your collections, and as you started to gather 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.359 more things and wanted to travel, was there I want 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.959 to just continue to stay here and find out more 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.320 about these people or go out into other parts of 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:45.960 the country and you know, connect the dots to the 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:48.879 ancient hunters that were here, or the ancient hunters that 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.200 might have been into Mexico or Arizona or wherever. I'm 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:57.399 always looking to expand, uh my knowledge based on the 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.720 different cultures we you know, we we can call them 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.480 tribes in the in the historic sense, uh, and then 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.560 the cultures go back beyond the prehistoric. UM. But every 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.840 time I go hunting, I take one of these airheads 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.640 with me, UH and I go. I give a lot 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.919 of places hunting, and I talked to the guides and 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.680 all of them were It seems there's some sort of 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:27.240 connection that they're artifact hunters and the culture out in 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:32.760 New Mexico, UM, the pottery makers, the members culture is 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.800 is very intriguing to me. And for these guys to 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.440 be making these beautiful pots of thousand years ago, it's 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.120 just amazing. And UM, the little ear rings that we've 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.520 the shell ear rings that that I've found, UM, and 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.919 some of their ruins while we're ill counting in the 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.439 big huge pottery shards that just tell a story of 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:57.639 its own. These guys were trading shells and all from 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:02.840 from the the West coast, um and some caves that 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:07.919 I've been in and in West Texas finding some amazing 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:14.880 stuff braided rope and yeah, sandals, sandals, thousand year old 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:19.800 sandals that we're we're finding in pack rat nsts and um. 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.520 These they're all tied. I mean, these these cultures, that's 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:24.960 the Castile culture. They're out of the caves in West 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:29.840 Texas there about eleven years old. These guys are communicating 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:34.200 and trading and with the Indians in our country, I 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.760 would certainly imagine, and we do see proof of that. 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:42.360 But they're trading um shell conch shells from the Texas 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.520 coast all the way up here. But the shells that 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:49.200 we see traded from California coast all the way here 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.119 to central Texas. It's just amazing how that makes it 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:55.080 the network. So they're all tied. Yeah, I tell you 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:56.880 so much. I mean, I'm sure it all comes back 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:58.520 to this piece of ground for you though, just because 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.119 you spent so much time digging in here um. And 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.919 then in the sight that we went to today, it 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:07.760 was interesting me how you identified where the airheads might 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.840 be or where though artifacts might be. So take people 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.000 through how you walk on a barren piece of ground 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.399 and the creek and on your ranch in Texas, and 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:20.600 how you come to know that there's relics or artifacts there, 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:23.560 and then once you've determined that in your mind, how 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.920 you find them and then continue to find them and um, 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:28.840 how you sift through to find the ones you want, 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.680 and what that process looks like. So that I get 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:34.040 this question a lot is well, I don't even know, 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:37.159 can you. I've got this place on my land and 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:38.920 I just want to know if there's an air head 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:42.119 out there. And really what it comes down to is 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:46.880 to find a spring, a healthy spring. That the best 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:48.879 time to find a really healthy spring is in the 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:52.639 during a drought, and if that's still running, then you 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:56.560 can almost picture of the Indians being there. And so 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.840 we'll find a spring first in from the spring, we'll 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:04.040 just we'll just make a big walk, you know, We'll 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:06.159 just walk around and we'll look for those pieces of 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:11.560 broken midden rock and that's the evidence of them having 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.960 cook sites there and broken flint, and if you can 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.199 find a little piece of that, then we'll dig some 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.560 test holes. And if the test holes bring up more 0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:23.320 mid and rock and more pieces of flint, then at 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:25.439 that point we know that we're on a site. And 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.280 then we'll clear it and get all the seater off, 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:32.200 because the seater in this country is everywhere. And then 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:36.080 once we uh, once we know that that's where we're 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.560 gonna dig, then we have come a long way. I 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.960 used to just hand dig everything, and now we have 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:43.920 a table that has a motor on it and it's 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:50.560 offset drive shaft that um we engineered to help Jimmy 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:55.920 Love join my my digging buddy, UM, and we'll take 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:01.320 we'll go around the midden where the where where they 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:03.920 would probably be been living that the midden is more 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:05.880 where they're cooking. There's gonna be a lot of points 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:07.680 in there, but the good stuff that's not broken is 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:12.400 gonna be out where they're actually living and and working. Generally, 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:15.680 it will be on the on the southeast side because 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.800 the prevailing winds or southwest, so they're gonna be out 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:21.639 of the smoke. And we'll start there and we'll just trench. 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.320 We'll dig a big trench and then we'll find the 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:28.480 habitation layer and and uh, when we're looking at it earlier, 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:31.320 the snails would come in and get the organic matter 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.879 after the Indians had left. And so there's generally a 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.359 line of occupation, is what we call it. And once 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.560 once we find that, we'll go below that and another 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:43.960 six inches so we're not missing anything, and we'll dig 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:48.359 that whole area one bucket at a time with a bobcat. 0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:51.760 Put it on the table. It sifts well, sift all 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:54.840 the midden rock and in all out, and then uh, 0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:58.000 we'll find the points from there, and then we'll put 0:25:58.040 --> 0:25:59.480 them in a bucket and at the end of the 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.439 day we'll put them out on the back of the 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:03.520 tailgate of the chuck and have a cold beer and 0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:08.320 and talk about every time we'll talk about what what 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:13.119 were these Indians doing? And Wow, we're actually getting to 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:15.159 do this, the first people that have touched this in 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.040 five thousand years, and and we'll have that discussion over 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.280 a cold beer. And yeah, we'll sort the points out. 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:23.840 The broken ones will go in a box, and the 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.240 the whole pretty ones will be displayed for everyone to see. 0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:32.320 Do you imagine that one thing that struck me. Yeah, 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.960 you've got a nice ranch here. Did you imagine that 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:39.040 your place is much different than every other ranch in 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:42.240 this part of the country with open ground that you've 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:44.800 just over the time knowing what to look for and 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.679 become passionate, and that's why you found the amount of 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:49.640 heads you have or is you know, you said there's 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:52.960 there's water that runs through your place, for sure, but uh, 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:55.199 you imagine that there's so many of these sites, so 0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:57.760 much of this information that we could clean and and 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.959 probably should clean in some way that just goes, uh 0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:06.480 goes unfound because there's no one to see it. Absolutely well. 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:09.960 Even there's so many of these sites about every six 0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:13.880 hundred yards in this country down Onion Creek or Barton Creek, 0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:15.720 and these are some of the bigger creeks in the region. 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:18.320 The Barton Creek runs all the way down into Austin. 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.760 But there's so many of these sites, uh that if 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:23.879 you have a property with a spring on it, you 0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:27.000 have a you do have a campsite on it. But 0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:30.239 a lot of these camps that I'm digging, I've known 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:32.960 about for thirty years and I'm just coming up. I'm 0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:35.199 talking to the land owners and I'm showing them my 0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:37.240 Indian room. I bring him out to the ranch and 0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:42.760 they they see what's there, and then they still won't 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:45.840 dog it. And then and I'll ask maybe both I'll 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.560 dig it with them, and then I'll give them fifty 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:52.240 the points. So lots of people have the middens or 0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:55.159 the camps on their place, but it's a matter of 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.680 want to and drive. They get out there and dig 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:00.160 for an hour and they're and it's hot, and it's 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.359 a ton of work, and there over it and I 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:08.040 can't get over it. Um, it's like Steve Ronnella or 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:14.520 Ben O'Brien climbing him. It's like the big one. The 0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:18.240 big animal is not killed right off the road. The 0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:21.280 big ones killed back in there where no one else 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:24.880 wants to go. And then when when when you get 0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:27.400 further back there, and it's the last day, and if 0:28:27.560 --> 0:28:30.120 if you just have enough energy to get over one 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:33.800 more mountain range or one more mountain, that's where the 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:36.560 big one is. And it's the last day, in the 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:39.000 last hour and the last light. And I guarantee you 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:42.600 that Ben O'Brien and Steve ronell are up there with 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.160 their glasses until last light and that's what it's like 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:48.840 for me. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's what strikes me 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:51.160 about all people that you know, you don't sit in 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:55.440 a room like this without having so ridiculous passion for 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:59.120 the thing, right, Um, you just don't, and you don't 0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:02.680 come to the point you've come to as an amateur archaeologist. 0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:07.560 I love that term. Um. Yeah, I'm I think I'm 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:15.520 like an amateur whiskey taster. I got a certificate one time. Um. 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.200 But you don't get to that point without having that drive, 0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:21.760 without wanting to know that And you were talking about 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.080 correct me if I'm wrong. There's in in some circles 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:30.600 there's thought that digging this could be controversial because you 0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:33.120 may disturb some kind of evidence that could be found, 0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:35.440 or talk about that a little bit. You know. I 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:37.160 know that's probably sense of subject for it, but I 0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:40.000 think it's important for people to hear you know, your 0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:43.120 passion is coming through this stuff and the respect for 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:45.240 these artifacts and the fact that they're seen by many 0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:47.880 people that come in your home. Um. I think that's 0:29:47.920 --> 0:29:49.719 important for people to know because I know there are 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.719 probably something that would ask why don't you just leave 0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:55.520 him in the ground? Right, And it's so it's a 0:29:55.560 --> 0:30:02.520 non renewable resource essentially, and the archae bologists are amazing. 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.640 That's what I wanted to do as a kid, you know, 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:07.960 when I was ten or eleven, but um, you know, 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:13.720 my path went a different direction. But it is extremely 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:17.920 important to to know what went on and and how 0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:21.240 it went on. But they, the archaeologist in this region 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:25.000 have studied it so extensively that these camps are very 0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:28.640 common and they they don't want, you know, they don't 0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:32.239 have any more used to come find out what they 0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:38.880 already know. Lots of their stuff gets displayed appropriately, which 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:41.880 is awesome and um, but there's tons of it that 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:45.880 they're still studying in that the general public will never 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:49.440 see ever and a lot of these folks won't even 0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:53.200 make it to a museum to see it. So the 0:30:53.280 --> 0:30:56.000 amount of people that have been in this room or 0:30:56.080 --> 0:30:59.080 been to the ranch and and if looked and talked 0:30:59.120 --> 0:31:01.680 about this stuff would never have done it without this 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:04.080 stuff coming up out of the ground and by me 0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:08.160 getting it out. And um, it's I feel it's so 0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:11.560 important for us to dig this stuff up and to 0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:15.280 share with the world, um, like we're doing now. I've 0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:19.239 never heard a podcast on air heads either. I'm sure 0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:23.040 they're out there, maybe not. Maybe we're breaking ground. I'm 0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:25.320 glad if that's the case. But you know, but you 0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:29.560 know they're getting displayed, we're talking about it. We're sharing 0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:35.760 this part of our history, um with with the world. 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:40.960 Whereas uh, you know, they may again the archaeologists do 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:45.360 it tremendously great job about you know, I'm putting the 0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:48.960 word out and showing what's going on in museums and all. 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:52.400 But but it's hard to get to Yeah, you couldn't 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:54.680 get to this. I mean the amount of things that 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.320 you have here and some of the great funds you have, UM. 0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:00.640 And that brings that's a good segue. It brings us 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:02.720 to you know, what you have and what you've learned, 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:07.560 because there's a lot that you've learned. Um. We got 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:14.000 a dog visitor here bringing us a ball through. UM, 0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:16.360 what you have and what you've learned, because you've learned 0:32:16.360 --> 0:32:19.040 a lot about these ancient cultures you love, learned a 0:32:19.040 --> 0:32:21.920 lot about these periods and time that are important for 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:24.480 us all to know about. So the biggest part of 0:32:24.520 --> 0:32:26.760 me wanting to sit out with you was to to 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:28.640 harvest and get out of you all the things that 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.800 you've learned about not only how to find these things 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:35.560 and why you might do it, but the people. You know, 0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:37.880 you're sitting and having that beer. That's a good visual 0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:42.040 for everybody looking at these heads and in in your 0:32:42.040 --> 0:32:44.480 own mind, with your own knowledge, trying to understand what 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:48.080 this connects to, because we all have that connection. So 0:32:49.080 --> 0:32:53.200 take me through the types of people that lived here, 0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.200 um how far back you know, let's probably start with 0:32:57.200 --> 0:32:59.880 the the oldest civilizations that lived here that you're a 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.040 are of, and then take me back through kind of 0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:04.360 how how that all steps up and what you've learned 0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:09.520 that could be. So there's there's evidence of certainly evidence 0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:12.480 in this area of the Clovis culture, which was thought 0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:15.680 to be the oldest culture in North America. Um, so 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:19.800 whether they came across the land bridge or they came 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:25.760 from from Europe bouncing down through across the ice cap 0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:32.040 too to the east coast. There is a huge area 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:35.760 on the east coast with tons of of Clovis camps, 0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:41.840 and so some archaeologists I think that they came across 0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:45.160 in in boats to the east coast, and then that's 0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:46.920 why there's so many camps over there. And then from 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:50.040 there they followed the waterways to west and the other 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.040 the other ones say that they came across the baring 0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:57.520 Land Bridge, came down and followed the rivers and then 0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:00.040 they ended up on the east coast and they and 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:02.480 go anywhere else, and that's why there's so many camps there. 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:12.040 But from there um the Clovis culture died out. Okay, 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:15.000 that the Paleo Indians died out, the Fulsome and all 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:21.760 that group, and then they repopulated. And there's evidence in 0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:27.680 in this area that after the repopulation in the transitional 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:30.919 Paleo and all about eight thousand years, they lived here 0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:35.240 all the way up until the Comanches. So the culture 0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:40.600 that we're finding the most of the prehistoric about six 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:46.000 thousand years until um, all the way up through the 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:49.560 Comanche points true eraheads. So they were using what we 0:34:49.640 --> 0:34:53.920 call dart points. They were hafted to a long shaft 0:34:54.880 --> 0:35:00.080 and uh hurled with an at ladle and described that 0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:03.400 lattle for those are not aware, So it's like the 0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:10.200 chuck it deal that you throw to your dog. So 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:14.080 that these Indians made that, they didn't make the billions 0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:16.960 of dollars that this chuck it guy is right? Why 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:20.640 did not think of that, But so it's a long shaft. 0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:26.880 There at the end, the flint point is on a 0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:30.760 stick about six inches long that goes into the shaft. 0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:35.120 And then the stick that laddel is about a foot long, 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:36.719 and it has a little hook on the end and 0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:39.320 and it's and that you use it to hurl to 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:42.920 get more kinetic energy. When the shaft hits the animal, 0:35:43.080 --> 0:35:45.960 this the point stays in the animal. The big shaft 0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:48.520 comes out, and they run grab their shaft, pick up 0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:50.880 another tip and put it in and and just follow 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:57.440 and track and um. They can be accurate that the 0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:00.560 guys that do it now for fun, can they can 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.279 hit targets at a hundred yards with these things. So 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.640 they figured these hunters that did it every day growing 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:10.160 up their whole lives, they needed to be good at 0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:12.160 it could be accurate to hunters. You know, how they 0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:16.520 would fashion the shaft or what. Yeah, they would there, 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:20.560 you know, they'd use a lot of the cane along 0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:24.600 the rivers and creeks, and to straighten them, they'd heat 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:26.400 him in the fire and then they just bend it 0:36:26.480 --> 0:36:28.520 and then as it cooled they would stay in that shape. 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:33.080 And then from there they would use asphaltum two connect 0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:38.439 the the flint tip and asphalt them is it's either 0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:44.279 they could use tree sap or um. You can what 0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:46.320 I think of as faltim is when you're on the 0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:48.799 beach and there's those big tar balls that come up, 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.439 and that's natural. I'm sure there's more of it since 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:56.120 we've been digging or drilling, but they'll use that heat 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:58.280 it up and then fasten that and there's that cools 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:02.200 that becomes hard and so that there's no getting it 0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:04.919 off at that point. So if they broke the tip 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:09.000 of their ahead, they could re sharpen the the arrowhead 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:11.759 while it's still on that stick, and we we see 0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:16.280 evidence of that and all of these points resharpening UM. 0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:19.520 But oftentimes if that stick broke, then that that points 0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:22.920 useless at that point because they couldn't. They couldn't they 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:26.359 can repair it. So lots of these points is laying around. 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:28.279 I'm sure a lot of that had to do with it. 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:31.600 Why would they just leave these perfect points in camp? Yeah, 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:33.520 that's what we were talking about it earlier. It's probably 0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:36.040 another rabbit hole. Why why are so many of them 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:39.560 left behind? Um in the way that they are And 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:42.839 I'm sure there's lots of reasons. Yeah, and they're perfect. Yeah. Weight. 0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:45.960 I think we talked about one of them. The Fulsome 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:50.960 people's were some of the most nomadic Paleo folks and 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:54.160 and because of that there their points were super thin. 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:56.480 And and they think it's just because of weight. But 0:37:57.800 --> 0:37:59.480 back to where we were going with that is so 0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:02.720 it started of the Paleo Indians. Right here, there's Paleo 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:06.400 sites all through North America. Paleo, the Clovis, the Fulsome, 0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:11.279 angast Era, they were those all intermingled civilizations or did 0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:14.919 they predate each other? They were, they came. I don't 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:18.240 think that they were overlapped very much. They were they 0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:20.200 you know, there would be a culture here and and 0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:23.120 then there'd be some overlap and there would be someone 0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:26.640 with a better technique, and they transitioned into that technique 0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:30.000 of of napping, of flint napping um. Which gets us 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:34.480 to the from the at laddle to the bow and arrow. Yeah, 0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:36.680 when did that describe that transition as you know it 0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:40.919 in this country at least, so they're thinking roughly thirtred 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:44.000 years ago. It is all with the Yes, So the 0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:48.799 majority of the history of of our world is at 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:55.200 Laddle is guys throwing uh big long um shafts with 0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:57.239 an out ladle. Yeah, if you google at laddle, you 0:38:57.239 --> 0:38:59.919 can get many, many videos of modern guys. Like you said, 0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:03.320 it's pretty impressive to watch. I mean, they're they're killing 0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:08.879 mammoths with these things, which is just amazing to see. Um. 0:39:08.960 --> 0:39:11.399 But then once the bow and arrow took over, there 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:15.120 was an overlap I'm sure, um of when to use 0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:16.759 an out lad and when to use a bone arrow. 0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:20.239 But um, and some of the arrows I have in 0:39:20.280 --> 0:39:23.400 the Indian room here are really short. They have trade 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:25.319 points on them. This is the horse culture. So then 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.880 we we start we transition from the at laddle to 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.920 the bow and arrow about thirteen dred years ago, and 0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:34.560 then we get into the horse culture, which didn't The 0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:37.160 horse culture is very young. It's only a couple hundred 0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:40.040 not even that long. When the when the Spanish came in, 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:43.800 there were horses and mustangs here well before the Indians 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:46.840 figured out how to use them. So some of the 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.920 tribes didn't have horses more longer than eighty years before 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:53.600 we before we came in and you know, wrecked their 0:39:54.320 --> 0:40:01.280 their world. But and I'm very sympathetic to that, uh, 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:04.120 you know that it just is what it is. Progress 0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:07.680 is progress and and uh the Indians did it to themselves, 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.279 and uh, we don't want to rabbit hold down that. 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:14.560 But from the bow and arrows pre horse culture, which 0:40:14.600 --> 0:40:17.760 was a big long thing, you know, to the horse culture, 0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:21.239 these arrows aren't but about two and a half feet long. Yeah, 0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:25.400 and we're looking at it a set of eight or 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:29.360 so arrows from that that time frame, and described you 0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:32.160 know how that sets up. Because this, of all things 0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:33.719 you have hanging here, I believe it. It was the 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.920 most interesting to me how not only the feathers they used, 0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:40.240 how they attached to fix the feathers to the shaft, 0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:42.560 how they fixed the shaft to the point, what the 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:44.359 point looks like, and why it looks like it does. 0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:48.600 So the French we're making trade points. The arrows that 0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:50.799 we're looking at now have trade metal trade points. And 0:40:50.880 --> 0:40:53.879 there the style. Um, I have a couple of arros 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:56.360 there from the Sioux culture that are the style of 0:40:56.560 --> 0:40:59.480 a little big horn. Doesn't mean that these were used 0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:02.919 a little big horn, but they were certainly obtained from 0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:06.520 the Indians that fought in and around a little big 0:41:06.520 --> 0:41:10.560 horn right at the same time. But that's you know, 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:15.520 eighteen seventies back in the sun. The French trappers, they 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:18.799 the French would make these trade points before they'd even 0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:21.320 come over here, and they'd send them with their trappers 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:24.120 and their their fur companies and they'd trade these point 0:41:24.239 --> 0:41:27.160 the Indians, which were you know, that a lot lighter. 0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:33.000 They were more accurate there as deadly, and they wouldn't 0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:35.600 have to put the time in to make these. Every 0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:38.000 time you throw one of these a break if if 0:41:38.040 --> 0:41:40.680 it hit a rocket break, and that's a tremendous amount 0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:42.760 of time that they put into that. Well, these points 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:45.800 they might bend or they just banging out and straighten 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:49.680 it out and go on. So um, the points here 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:55.080 we see are about three inches long and very sharp, 0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:58.560 uh and wicked looking. I mean you walk in the 0:41:58.640 --> 0:42:02.040 room and it you can see these on a on 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:04.560 the Indians back. Oh yeah, the tip I mean the 0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:08.440 very tip of a knife almost. Yeah, you know, that's 0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:11.759 probably about what four inches long, would you say? And 0:42:11.880 --> 0:42:15.040 so the shaft, the shafts of these arrows all have 0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:18.279 different designs in them, and and they think that that 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:22.040 they belonged to the guy who made the shaft ay 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:25.360 or is it to let the blood out when it 0:42:25.560 --> 0:42:27.239 when it hits sticks in then and while it's hard 0:42:27.280 --> 0:42:29.319 to say, but they have grooves in the shaft. Every 0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:32.480 one of these authentic arrows do. UM. If you guys 0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:35.400 are at the museums and you see these authentic arrows, 0:42:35.400 --> 0:42:40.320 you look for that. But then the feather part is 0:42:40.360 --> 0:42:46.440 about eight inches. Um. Different cultures use three feathers. Um. 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:50.279 Some cultures just used to um. Most of them have 0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:54.600 three feathers. But the Navajo. I've got three arrows up 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:58.480 there from the Navajo culture and they're used buzzard m feathers. 0:42:59.000 --> 0:43:03.480 They use buzzard feather there. So UM, they're pretty easy 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:08.600 to distinguish which tribe by the style. The two would 0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:11.719 you use turkey and eagle, we don't have it. It's 0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:14.200 illegal to have it, any type of eagle feathers. So 0:43:14.280 --> 0:43:18.880 there's no eagle feathers. Um. All the museums and and 0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:22.800 have the eagle stuff. You can't even trade them. Yeah. 0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:26.799 Now it's it's that's one of the more interesting When 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:28.400 you look at these arrows, you think of our modern 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:31.839 days in the length and you look at these errors. 0:43:31.920 --> 0:43:34.680 You must think on horseback. You know, once these horse 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:39.040 cultures became prevalent. They had what do you say, sixty 0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:43.680 pound draw weights up to they're shooting a foot and 0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:47.040 a half long arrow tip to tip um as. I'm 0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:51.680 just guessing at that obviously, but you know, talk about 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:56.120 that the you know much about the physics of that, 0:43:56.280 --> 0:43:58.360 of how they designed these bows and arrows and what 0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:00.880 they became at this in these early stages. Well that 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:05.319 they evolved um from the utility of of being on 0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:09.000 the horse shooting under the neck. These guys were warriors. 0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:14.000 The the arraheads that were finding on the ranch they 0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:18.799 were they weren't and there's evidence, I mean, when the 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:24.920 archaeologists find the skeleton, skeletal remains, there's no evidence of warfare. 0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:27.200 They're just weren't enough of them. They needed each other. 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:31.200 The Indians that were talking about the horse culture were 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:33.319 major warriors. There were so many of them at this 0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:37.439 point in history. And to shoot under a horse's neck, 0:44:37.840 --> 0:44:42.319 to hide and to carry a shield and shoot while 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:46.560 you're running that the bows and the there has had 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:50.160 to be super short, and you know, they could get 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:54.719 right up next to bison. They just they just did. 0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:58.600 They'd run in. They think that it average took it 0:44:58.880 --> 0:45:02.120 about four arrows for every bison, they'd come in and 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:05.200 shoot behind. They'd run in behind and shoot them from 0:45:05.239 --> 0:45:09.160 the flank up through deliver and maybe catch along. And 0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:12.680 then they had the luxury of tracking. They just pull 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:16.520 up and and uh, you know, track them, and so 0:45:17.320 --> 0:45:20.880 they didn't have to be accurate up to eighty plush hard. 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:24.000 But if we go back to you know, the archaic 0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:28.680 period and some of these back to away from times 0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:34.240 when when bows became prevalent, what game were they hunting, 0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:37.120 What were there main sources of food, and what were 0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:40.160 the options maybe animals that were here that they were 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:44.360 unable to hunt um or on you know, on more unsuccessful, 0:45:44.360 --> 0:45:47.040 because I'm sure there were you know, deer and other 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:50.520 species that were important. Yeah, lots, So we find lots 0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:56.160 of of bones of turkeys, lots of turkey legs. We're 0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:59.680 looking down at a pot from the Okay, yeah, palladeric 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:02.400 can and that came out of there back in the sixties. 0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:08.279 But lots of turkeys, um armor delos, find a lot 0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:17.040 of armor dealer shells on the bones in them, Um coons, fox, coyoats, um, 0:46:17.280 --> 0:46:22.360 lots of deer and uh, a lot of buffalo. We 0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:27.800 find lots of buffalo teeth and big huge buffalo femers. 0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:30.400 That's some of the more amazing stuff you're showing me too, 0:46:30.400 --> 0:46:32.280 and not this I geek out about it. Almost everything 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:35.560 you've shown me thus far with buffalo teeth for whatever, 0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:39.439 ancient buffalo teeth. It's so awesome when when that rolls out, 0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:44.800 it's so cool. It's you know, because we think the 0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:47.400 deer and stuff around here, and we just can't picture 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:50.880 bison here. And you know, if you can imagine this 0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:54.640 country is right now, there's so it's so wooded. Back 0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:58.280 then it was there were very few trees and mainly 0:46:58.320 --> 0:47:01.680 around the springs and the creeks and all because the 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.000 natural fires and the bison herds which come through here. 0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:10.080 And so to to to here that yeah, there used 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:12.120 to be bison here in the Indians, we'll actually digging 0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:15.360 them and finding the evidence that, yeah, they were cutting 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:19.600 up bison right here. We'll find parts of the camp 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:24.720 that that they would probably do be the butchery that bison. 0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:27.480 We find lots of big knives and that's where the 0:47:27.480 --> 0:47:30.480 big bison bones are. The knives I say big, anywhere 0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:32.680 from five to seven inches long. Do you find an 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:34.600 evidence of how they might have butchered a bison with 0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:37.960 these tools. Yeah, we we see in some of these 0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:41.600 big bones there's chopped marks on them. And then uh, 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:44.920 like we're there's some of these big chopper rocks. I mean, 0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:48.799 imagine just a big, huge piece of flint that's that's 0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:51.520 napped on one edge so it's very finely worked, and 0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:53.759 then the back end is that explain what napped is 0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:57.000 just kind of so for napping is when they've actually 0:47:57.000 --> 0:48:01.160 take a blank piece of flint and using the hammerstone, 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:05.680 they chip off the flint and on each side they'll 0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:08.680 turn it back over and chip it make it towards 0:48:08.719 --> 0:48:11.240 sharp and then once it once it has a pretty 0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:14.280 good shape to it, then they that's called percussion flaking. 0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:17.440 Then they'd come back in and do what's called pressure flaking, 0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:20.640 where they're take an antler tip generally and just hold 0:48:20.680 --> 0:48:22.759 a lot of pressure to certain angling that pops off 0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:25.080 little pieces of flint where you can get a piece 0:48:25.280 --> 0:48:29.719 that's as sharp as any knife. So there's evidence of 0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:35.919 them of them, uh you know, butchering bison right there, 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:40.800 dear and bison. It's amazing teeth, big old bison jaws 0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:44.920 coming out in this country. I mean we are sitting here, 0:48:45.320 --> 0:48:50.440 what half an hour from downtown Austin, and you found 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:55.320 evidence of thousands and thousands of year olds hunters that 0:48:55.440 --> 0:49:00.319 are butchering bison. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah, so every 0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:03.480 every everything about that. When I have a chance to 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:06.719 go down to to dig with my family or by 0:49:06.760 --> 0:49:11.640 myself or whatever, it's like, what are we gonna find today? Yeah? 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:14.560 A piece of al Right. It would be hard to 0:49:14.560 --> 0:49:18.319 describe what you're really finding, because you could say the 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:20.200 prevailing term might be like, hey man, you find in 0:49:20.239 --> 0:49:23.719 pieces of history. I don't know if it's that it's 0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:28.479 more or less you're finding evidence of who we are 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:32.919 or evidence. Every little pieces is just another puzzle piece 0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:36.239 of the puzzle. It's you know, I mean, you've killed 0:49:36.239 --> 0:49:39.520 deer on this ranch, and you've butchered deer yet hundreds 0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:43.840 of yards from where ancient hunter, and ancient is the 0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:46.719 term when we're talking. We're looking at a book where 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:50.640 one of your blaze was featured as the archaic period, 0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:55.799 archaic blade from two thousand BC found here, correct, right 0:49:55.840 --> 0:50:00.840 here on the ranch. Uh. That's that's some gravity to me, 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:06.080 it's huge gravity. And it's most people are like, oh, 0:50:06.120 --> 0:50:07.960 that's cool. I like to shape of that. That's an 0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:11.799 arrowhead and it does not go beyond that. Yeah, and 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:16.240 they walk in this room and and I don't always 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:18.799 talked about this earlier, for that was our discussion. But 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:24.360 they would rather know about the furniture. It is nice furniture, 0:50:25.080 --> 0:50:28.359 that it's old stuff. It's yeah, it's really nice. But 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:31.239 if there's no unless it's belonging to King Arthur, I 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:35.920 would be looking at these heads. And that's a that's 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:39.239 an interesting distinction. And more moreover, I mean, we could 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.520 talk about these cultures forever and will continue to do so. 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:44.120 But what what's that say about our culture? You know? 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.040 What's that say about what we value? And I think 0:50:47.080 --> 0:50:50.600 you and I are both hunters, um, And that's probably I. 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:54.279 I self identify as like a family man, a lover 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:56.839 of the natural world, hunter like those are. That That's 0:50:56.840 --> 0:50:59.040 what I would try to describe myself as if if 0:50:59.080 --> 0:51:03.520 anyone asked, yeah, well, I'm sure you would say similar things. Well, 0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:09.600 it's what culture do we have here? Frankly? You know, 0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:12.080 we go hunt in Spain, or we go hunting Russia, 0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:19.719 or or we go hunting Nepal. Um, that's culture. Yeah, 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:22.880 I mean we're staying in a five hundred year old 0:51:22.920 --> 0:51:25.879 bed and breakfast while we're hunting Greater Cybex or we're 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:31.680 we're in a village and getting you know, of history 0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:34.719 from these villagers that in in Nepal and the m 0:51:34.840 --> 0:51:40.439 l a s Um that have been there. When wasn't 0:51:40.440 --> 0:51:44.239 that village you all went to. Um, it's like four 0:51:44.320 --> 0:51:47.480 generations or five generations. Yeah, many more than that, even 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:51.560 I think um. And Yeah, another rabbital to go down 0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:56.160 was how the weight of that that I felt there 0:51:56.200 --> 0:52:00.600 trying to learn. I felt like almost I could have 0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:03.120 stayed there my entire life and not learned everything I 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:05.719 need to learn from those people, not only about the 0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:08.520 history of their place, but who they were and how 0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:10.200 they live their lives. I'm sure do you feel the 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:12.640 same way about holding one of these airheads? Yeah, it's 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.080 it's awesome, But and what what's cool about it is 0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:20.239 there is culture. This is culture now our society has 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:25.799 I feel uh ashamed to the fact that we're losing it. 0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:27.959 We don't care about it all. We care about what's 0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:32.880 on the next iPad video game deal and and you 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.680 know me, I don't. I don't even have a Facebook 0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:38.480 page or Instagram so I don't even know how I'm 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:42.080 gonna listen to this. I have this, I'll send you, 0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:45.120 I'll drop box you five dropbox. That's another thing I 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:46.880 don't know. Well, you'd be the first person that on 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:49.320 this podcast that didn't have one of So that's really nice. 0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:52.440 That's nice for me. But yeah, I mean it just 0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:54.920 goes to show, like he said, what is our current 0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:57.440 hunting culture? And we didn't come here to talk about that. 0:52:57.480 --> 0:53:00.680 But I love doing that anyway, because culture just aired ideas. 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:02.960 That's what culture is. It's the definition of the damn thing. 0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:06.960 It is a collection of shared ideas that that reverberate 0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:11.360 through people. And this the cultures that we may be 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:14.080 because they're so far removed from My respect for for 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:18.960 what you've amassed here is immense, just because of what 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:21.400 it means to our own culture, but just to to 0:53:21.560 --> 0:53:25.359 what it means our humanity. It's crazy. Thank you. It's 0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:29.320 a it's so awesome to put put this deal together 0:53:29.360 --> 0:53:32.000 and too and to have people that are passionate enough 0:53:32.040 --> 0:53:36.240 about it to come and actually want to talk about it. Um. 0:53:36.280 --> 0:53:39.480 And it's amazing to get to raise my family on 0:53:39.600 --> 0:53:46.040 the ranch and for them to to have some semblance 0:53:46.080 --> 0:53:49.239 of culture instead of being stuck and yeah, I mean, 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:51.000 you know it doesn't matter. You can live in town 0:53:51.000 --> 0:53:54.719 and have an amazing culture and be more country than 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:58.000 than someone living out on the ranch. But whatever, it's 0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:00.279 just a neat way to do it. And all there's 0:54:00.440 --> 0:54:03.200 like I said, it's it's there's perspective in these artifacts 0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:06.799 that are that's invaluable that I think every hunter should have. So, 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:08.880 I mean, there are there places. I'm not gonna have 0:54:08.920 --> 0:54:10.720 everybody come to your house, but are there the places 0:54:10.760 --> 0:54:14.200 around where people can um that you feel like our 0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:18.520 key Yeah? Yeah, you can say Smithsonian do all that, 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:20.799 but there are they're key places where, Man, if you're 0:54:20.840 --> 0:54:23.240 road tripping through Texas, if you're coming through this country, 0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:26.160 if you want to understand the ancient hunting culture, which 0:54:26.200 --> 0:54:29.320 is which is key to our own you know, hunting 0:54:29.360 --> 0:54:32.760 lives just in this area in Texas and West Texas 0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:39.200 even well, there's one of the biggest paleo um campsites 0:54:39.280 --> 0:54:42.160 ever known in North America, is called the Gault Site. 0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:47.520 And uh it's north of Georgetown, Texas, and U t 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:52.360 um Can gives tours of the Gult Site and there 0:54:52.400 --> 0:54:55.560 that's where they found lots of club and stuff, and 0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:58.840 that's where they're talking about this. You know fifteen the 0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:02.000 seventeen thousand year old culture that was here before the 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:07.120 Clovis Clovis was thought to be here to twelve five thirteen. 0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:11.439 But they're this Galt site is somewhere you can take 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:15.239 the kids um or if you don't have kids, if 0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:17.279 you're passionate about it, go, I mean, just go learn 0:55:17.320 --> 0:55:20.040 about it. It's amazing. It's a it's a one of 0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:23.520 the places you can go. There's also guys that have 0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:25.799 paid digs is what they call them, where you can 0:55:26.840 --> 0:55:30.879 you can go online and find a private leone ranch 0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:32.680 that you know, it caused twenty bucks to go out 0:55:32.680 --> 0:55:34.400 there with a pick, and you can dig around and 0:55:34.400 --> 0:55:37.279 find a point of your own, which if you don't own, 0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:39.160 if you if you don't own a place or have 0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:43.200 friends that own a place, that it's it's the it's awesome, 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:45.279 it's the next you know, there's people who have huge 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:48.719 collections that have done this. How would you if if 0:55:49.400 --> 0:55:52.960 say I got a property and I find a beautiful 0:55:52.960 --> 0:55:55.799 point like the one on beautiful flint point like the 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:59.480 way when I'm holding is this flint? Yeah, yes, sir, Yeah, 0:56:00.000 --> 0:56:04.680 getting good stone out how I find this point and 0:56:04.719 --> 0:56:07.040 I want to know more about how how it came 0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:09.000 to be here and a lot of the information you're saying, 0:56:09.040 --> 0:56:13.560 what what are ways that I could find? There's that book? 0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:20.200 Oh yeah, there's there's several books. Um yeah, out take 0:56:20.200 --> 0:56:25.640 it off. We're gonna start reading passages from arrowhead books. 0:56:25.640 --> 0:56:30.560 Now get get really deep, go real deal. So this 0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:34.439 Overstreet book is this weighs about it's the best one. 0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:37.239 It weighs about as much as three thousand arrowheads might wig. 0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.400 And then there's there's areas of the book south central 0:56:41.520 --> 0:56:44.279 or wherever part of the United States you live. And 0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:48.640 it's gonna show you what's your point is you you've 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:51.040 compare the base of it you find it will tell 0:56:51.080 --> 0:56:56.360 you how old it is probably how much it's worth. Um. 0:56:56.440 --> 0:56:59.720 So this is the over the Overstreet Identification and Price 0:56:59.800 --> 0:57:04.160 Guy to Indian Arrowheads, twelfth edition, Robert M. Over Street. 0:57:04.680 --> 0:57:09.000 And it is sixty four pages long. So there's a 0:57:09.040 --> 0:57:12.359 few ads in there, so we'll give it tweages long. 0:57:12.400 --> 0:57:15.560 And it is man, it's detailed. Yeah, that's the dictionary 0:57:15.600 --> 0:57:17.840 of what we do and it's it's a lot of 0:57:17.880 --> 0:57:21.960 how that's the first one that I went to, yeah, 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:24.160 find So if we if I found this head that's 0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:27.080 in my hand, how would I go about looking through here? 0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:30.360 So we live in the south central area right there. 0:57:31.240 --> 0:57:33.200 Let me see what type of point that is. That's 0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:36.720 a bulloverdy just from so if you go to look 0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:40.760 at Bulverdi and then it'll you compare it and uh, 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:44.880 it's gonna tell you. So it has a thumbnail guide 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:49.120 of the forms. So you're you're looking at the base 0:57:49.960 --> 0:57:52.320 of the arrowhead hunt. The base is gonna tell you 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:54.520 what culture it is. Yeah, and then once you find 0:57:54.520 --> 0:57:59.600 the culture, you flip over to it and find a deal. 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:01.480 But that cool, not that we need to go through 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:04.760 all this. At this point there it is bolvardy right, 0:58:05.040 --> 0:58:11.640 and so this is described as a G eight hundred dollars. 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:14.800 That's amazing. So the one you're holding there is it 0:58:15.800 --> 0:58:18.600 G three or four and it's you know, it's worth 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:23.720 fifty cents. But to me, it's priceless to what what's 0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:28.360 the g's that's gonna tell you the grade of the point. 0:58:28.640 --> 0:58:31.000 So this point that's in the book, and the book 0:58:31.000 --> 0:58:34.720 we're talking about is the finest artifacts of prehistoric Texas. 0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:36.479 And a couple of friends of mine wrote the book, 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:42.120 Winston Ellison and Dwayne Rodgers. Um. What they did is 0:58:42.120 --> 0:58:47.160 they had a panel of judges, um about ten judges 0:58:47.280 --> 0:58:51.560 that looked at the best points that they could find, 0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:53.959 and then they voted on them to make the book 0:58:54.040 --> 0:58:57.200 or not. And so that's another book you guys ought 0:58:57.240 --> 0:59:01.360 to look for is The Finest Artifact of Prehistoric Texas 0:59:01.440 --> 0:59:05.120 by Winston Ellison and Dwayne Rogers. So a lot of 0:59:05.120 --> 0:59:10.200 these points. Dwayne Rodgers is the authenticator. There's people that 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:13.920 we'll fake these and try to sell them, and so 0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:18.360 I know these are real because I found them. Yeah, 0:59:18.440 --> 0:59:20.400 And if I were to sell them, someone would probably 0:59:20.400 --> 0:59:22.240 want a paper on it, and that would be the 0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:27.479 guy Dwayne Rodgers. But of course I wouldn't sell these things. Well, 0:59:27.520 --> 0:59:29.640 I mean that's the specifics. That's it's it's fun for 0:59:29.680 --> 0:59:32.600 me just to to give people an outlet to what 0:59:32.640 --> 0:59:34.360 do you do if you find one? I'm sure that 0:59:34.400 --> 0:59:37.919 would be a question. But back to to what they mean, 0:59:38.040 --> 0:59:43.360 because you know, I'm generally ideological, philosophical type of guy, 0:59:43.400 --> 0:59:47.360 and as even as a hunter, I've described this podcast 0:59:47.400 --> 0:59:51.040 a lot. I think more about the philosophies of why 0:59:51.080 --> 0:59:52.880 we do the things we do than I do the 0:59:52.960 --> 0:59:56.160 actual doing of them. You know, So how to find 0:59:56.160 --> 0:59:59.720 one of these is relevant to me. But but what 0:59:59.840 --> 1:00:01.480 they you know, what they end up meaning to you, 1:00:01.600 --> 1:00:04.280 is just as as relevant, if not more so. And 1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:08.240 so you have do you have a piece in here 1:00:08.280 --> 1:00:10.960 that you found, like your first arrowhead or your most 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:13.080 what you think the most prolific one you found that 1:00:13.200 --> 1:00:17.080 means a lot to you, that that will point out 1:00:17.120 --> 1:00:22.200 the folks. This this point down there that my wife 1:00:22.200 --> 1:00:25.840 found when we're looking at the so most of the 1:00:25.880 --> 1:00:28.120 ranch we live and I grew up on, but there's 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:32.760 another part of it that we bought it. We added too, 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:36.960 and when we were looking to buy it, before we 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:40.440 had any money, we're just walking down through the pasture. 1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:43.240 They're near Barton, near the creek, and right in the 1:00:43.280 --> 1:00:47.080 tirade was a perfect point. And to my wife found 1:00:47.120 --> 1:00:50.600 it and she said, yes, we're it's meant to be. 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:53.480 This is us. I mean, we're gonna live here. This 1:00:53.520 --> 1:00:54.800 is our deal. I thought you're about to say that. 1:00:54.960 --> 1:00:58.160 I dropped down on one knee, dropped down. I was 1:00:58.160 --> 1:01:02.160 still real scared. H I don't think we're married quite yet. 1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:06.640 I thought you had an air head, uh an engagement 1:01:06.720 --> 1:01:12.000 error had Yeah, so but that one and then that 1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:13.960 that point that's seven and a half inches. I was 1:01:14.000 --> 1:01:18.040 by myself hand digging. That was before the machinery. And 1:01:18.120 --> 1:01:21.640 it's paper thin. Beautiful and that's the one that's in 1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:24.760 this in the book here, but beautiful. That's a beautiful 1:01:24.800 --> 1:01:28.000 piece right there. Just the tip was coming sticking out 1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:29.840 and I was like, oh, it's just one of these 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:32.720 dart points and you know, six inches of it hanging 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:35.640 out and I almost fell over when I pulled it out. Unbelievable. 1:01:36.320 --> 1:01:39.920 And so your best recollection, there's so many rabbit holes, 1:01:39.920 --> 1:01:43.000 so much stuff. I'm interested to know. Describe kind of 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:46.560 the different points you found and how you go about 1:01:46.600 --> 1:01:49.400 identifying what it is and what it's used for. I mean, 1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:53.080 are there does each culture? Does each people have a 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:58.720 different type of signifier? I mean, so they do? You 1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:00.560 explain some of it to me, but try to try 1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:06.160 to take people through everything that's here and how it's identified. Well, 1:02:06.160 --> 1:02:09.640 there's there points that we call drills that are long 1:02:10.400 --> 1:02:13.080 that that would essentially look like a drill. Yeah, so 1:02:13.120 --> 1:02:15.280 you have three I'll have some photos of this up 1:02:15.280 --> 1:02:17.720 but you have three displays here. Let's just take you 1:02:17.840 --> 1:02:21.560 through the far left displays. So the drill points, all 1:02:21.600 --> 1:02:24.200 of their base or a lot of the bases, tell 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:27.040 you what type of point it is, what culture, what 1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:33.280 it what culture it was? How old was that culture? Um, 1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:36.160 that's that's what the base signifies. So it's really easy 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:38.600 to tell. I know most of them in the area. 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:40.720 Whenever they come off the table, I grab it. I said, 1:02:40.720 --> 1:02:43.960 there's a part analysis. We talked my digging buddy and 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:46.840 or family, and I'd say, that's cool. There's a Bolvardi, 1:02:46.960 --> 1:02:52.400 or there's a Castorville or or Lang or lane Tree. 1:02:52.560 --> 1:02:55.960 And so the cultures that were here were the pardon 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.479 Alys culture and the Lane Tree culture. And they really 1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:03.560 they're just giving them names because they were prehistoric. Um, 1:03:03.680 --> 1:03:09.240 so they're they're from tiniest little things called um gravers. 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:11.880 You know. It's just that have little tiny points on them, 1:03:11.920 --> 1:03:17.520 maybe too to make jewelry with two big knives. That 1:03:17.560 --> 1:03:20.320 were most of these knives. And this is good that 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:23.160 we're gonna talk about this because someone sees the seven 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:25.439 a half inch knife and the first thing they say 1:03:25.440 --> 1:03:28.680 is spear, and they think of some Indian carrying a 1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:33.080 big spear and stabbing a guy. Well back then these there, 1:03:33.720 --> 1:03:36.520 these cultures weren't at war with each other, so they're 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:39.680 cutting grass with them in the Archaeologists have studied the 1:03:39.720 --> 1:03:42.880 wear patterns on the edges and found that the majority 1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:46.520 is fiber cutting fiber. So they used a massive amount 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:50.160 of grass in there to cook and to steam these acorns. 1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:53.320 And that's mainly what they ate is acorns and some meat. 1:03:54.480 --> 1:03:58.919 But then so there's big knives and then the dart 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:03.160 points that would be used on the at lattle um. 1:04:03.280 --> 1:04:06.160 Some of them are are small because they've been resharpened 1:04:06.240 --> 1:04:09.120 multiple times, and some of them would say small, how 1:04:09.320 --> 1:04:12.200 about how long an inch and a half or an 1:04:12.200 --> 1:04:14.840 inch even? Yeah, you'd be surprised how some of these, 1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:17.640 when you're showing dark points or even arrowheads, how small 1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:20.400 they actually are. You know, yeah, there's some of the 1:04:20.600 --> 1:04:23.640 some of these arrowheads. If you have a dime, you 1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:27.760 can fit three of them without any overlap. And they're 1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:30.120 killing buffalo with him. A lot of people mistake it 1:04:30.240 --> 1:04:35.240 is quote bird points, but these are bison killers. You know, 1:04:35.320 --> 1:04:37.000 Like I said, you've put a few in and you 1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:41.720 have the luxury of tracking them. But so from knives 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:47.760 to drills, two big choppers, um too, you know, to 1:04:47.880 --> 1:04:51.400 do some major bone breaking, because they would use that 1:04:51.520 --> 1:05:00.680 marrow um two um you know, real serrated edge just 1:05:00.760 --> 1:05:04.919 so they could cut bone with. Or I imagine they've 1:05:04.920 --> 1:05:06.760 cut a lot of stuff. And there's also what we 1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:12.320 found lots of jewelry what we call gorgetts, where they 1:05:12.360 --> 1:05:14.240 make them from slate and they have all kinds of 1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:16.600 awesome designs in them. Then the holes are in set. 1:05:17.720 --> 1:05:21.240 They'd wear them around their neck or um, you know, 1:05:21.320 --> 1:05:26.840 pieces of jewelry that were sewn into to close um, 1:05:26.920 --> 1:05:29.560 all all sorts of things that the little round balls 1:05:29.680 --> 1:05:33.000 game pieces were calm there and all the mounds around here. 1:05:33.000 --> 1:05:37.280 They're like marble, but they're made from limestone, perfectly round 1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:40.960 little balls just the size of a marble. That uh, 1:05:41.800 --> 1:05:44.600 I'm sure that you know we're used for game pieces. 1:05:44.680 --> 1:05:46.640 What does that tell you about how they live their lives? 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:48.360 I mean, how do you how do you imagine they 1:05:48.400 --> 1:05:51.040 gathered in a place, what that they're what did these 1:05:51.080 --> 1:05:54.600 ancient hunters? What do they prioritize? What do they look 1:05:54.640 --> 1:05:57.160 for and gathering? And then you know you said there 1:05:57.160 --> 1:06:00.680 are small bands of people seven eight blessed and ten people. 1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:04.680 That's what they think. And I can imagine tons of 1:06:04.680 --> 1:06:08.880 of time for the men to tow to being hanging 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:13.280 out in camp and or on the hill making these pieces, 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:15.840 making their artifacts, making them. It took a lot of 1:06:15.960 --> 1:06:20.400 effort to make these shafts. On the at laddles Um. 1:06:20.560 --> 1:06:24.760 They'd kill a deer and they'd dry the meat and 1:06:25.040 --> 1:06:27.160 that would get them through for quite a while. You know. 1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:32.320 The ladies I'm sure would be out gathering firewood and 1:06:32.320 --> 1:06:37.640 and uh acorns and so lots of community time, but 1:06:38.040 --> 1:06:41.640 no probably no sense of time. And so they had 1:06:41.640 --> 1:06:44.880 a lot of time on their hands. And my I'm 1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:49.120 sure they did. And so if you could see, I 1:06:49.200 --> 1:06:53.520 used to think of these archaic folkses um, you know, 1:06:53.720 --> 1:06:57.640 just looking kind of drab and um. But some of 1:06:57.640 --> 1:06:59.480 the pieces that we found in these caves that have 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:04.320 been per erved, the colors of their clothing, the jewelry 1:07:04.360 --> 1:07:08.280 they wore, I'm sure we'd be stunned at what we 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:11.560 would say if we walked into the village of these guys. Yeah, 1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.840 it's pretty some pretty ornate stuff. You know, some of 1:07:14.840 --> 1:07:17.160 the jewelery you have here, You think, what, well, there's 1:07:17.200 --> 1:07:19.600 all kinds of even the knives and the cutlery and 1:07:19.680 --> 1:07:23.120 things that they is what we call it. It's they'd 1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:27.680 get they'd get limestone and they they die and pack 1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:30.480 it together and then um, you know they can be 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:35.439 you know, yellows and reds and we find it all 1:07:35.440 --> 1:07:39.280 the time. And so they had a lot of color too. Yeah, 1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:43.000 that was interesting how you talked about, you know, how 1:07:43.040 --> 1:07:47.080 they eight and how they you know, gather around these 1:07:47.080 --> 1:07:50.920 places and what really have through finding their artifacts of 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:53.840 artifacts from their way of life, how you can really 1:07:53.920 --> 1:07:58.040 map out how they lived, you know in the micro 1:07:58.120 --> 1:08:00.200 sense and the macro sense, the sense then yeah, you 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:02.960 know how they traveled and how thematic they really were. Well, 1:08:03.800 --> 1:08:07.800 if he hadn't seen the when um, when shock, he's 1:08:07.840 --> 1:08:11.440 over there and with the mass I yeah, sitting around 1:08:11.440 --> 1:08:15.000 that campfire and and they're just talking about the ancient 1:08:15.080 --> 1:08:20.280 stories and they're hey, they're talking to each other and 1:08:20.320 --> 1:08:24.880 they're not texting each other or they're not you know, 1:08:24.960 --> 1:08:27.200 they don't have a TV tray sitting there staring at 1:08:27.240 --> 1:08:31.400 some senseless show. I mean, they're actually learning their culture. 1:08:31.439 --> 1:08:34.360 And I can see him just gathering around talking about 1:08:34.439 --> 1:08:37.439 laughing and talking about the day's hunt and when so 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:39.719 and so was about to shoot the deer and tripped, 1:08:39.720 --> 1:08:43.000 and you know, and they were laughing and and uh, 1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:48.360 in a sense, uh, the biggest worry was eating. But 1:08:48.400 --> 1:08:52.160 it was plentiful around there, and you can always you 1:08:52.200 --> 1:08:57.000 can survive on grasshoppers, I mean, and they did. Yeah, 1:08:57.200 --> 1:08:59.200 that's funny. You said acorns. That was not something that 1:08:59.240 --> 1:09:02.599 I would have guessed. Yeah, lots of lots of acorn ash. 1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:06.200 I mean they find they've studied, of course, the archaeologists 1:09:06.200 --> 1:09:15.000 have studied the the hearth and it's just acorns, lots 1:09:15.000 --> 1:09:18.240 of grass seed. So they take the seeds and they 1:09:18.640 --> 1:09:21.120 they grind him. Another deal that we hadn't talked about, 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:25.160 as they used grinding stones, these limestone grinding stones, and 1:09:25.320 --> 1:09:29.439 the grit that comes off of them and the teeth 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:34.400 that we find in these Wow that you know, these uh, 1:09:34.600 --> 1:09:38.599 skeletal remains that archaeologists have come acrost. Their teeth are 1:09:38.600 --> 1:09:44.200 worn down to the bone and so lots of of abscess, 1:09:44.400 --> 1:09:49.000 lots of death by their teethings. It's funny. That's my 1:09:49.840 --> 1:09:53.479 that's my professional oral and maxil face of surgery. So 1:09:53.560 --> 1:09:58.680 it's it's intriguing to me. The culture that now that 1:09:58.720 --> 1:10:02.840 we're on teeth real quick, the culture, the castel culture 1:10:02.840 --> 1:10:06.240 out there that in West Texas they would to let 1:10:06.280 --> 1:10:09.080 you guia, they cook it and then chew the pulp 1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:10.880 out of it and spit those quids out. And that's 1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:12.720 what I was. Yeah, you're showing me that we have 1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:14.800 a lot of that here. But that had a lot 1:10:14.840 --> 1:10:19.439 of carbohydrate in it, and they skeletal remains, lots of decay, 1:10:20.600 --> 1:10:24.559 big evidence of big abscesses. Oh wow. And so I 1:10:24.560 --> 1:10:26.960 imagine it was a terrible what you're saying. There's a 1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:31.320 lot of you know, a lot of bowel problems, gut problems, 1:10:31.320 --> 1:10:34.040 a lot of teeth problems, just unhealthy living. Yeah, I 1:10:34.040 --> 1:10:35.880 mean that we can't imagine. There's no way we I 1:10:35.920 --> 1:10:38.000 don't think there's any way that we can't imagine that. 1:10:38.400 --> 1:10:41.000 And in the previous podcast, I can't remember which conversation 1:10:41.040 --> 1:10:45.640 it was, I talked about wanting to find in the 1:10:45.720 --> 1:10:47.639 modern sense of the word, you and I both traveled 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:49.760 to Nepal, and there's some similarities there, but in the 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:54.400 modern sense of the world, someone that has to kill 1:10:54.520 --> 1:10:57.679 to live. You know, the Discovery Channel loves to put 1:10:57.720 --> 1:11:01.200 on there, you know, the killed your family lives in 1:11:01.200 --> 1:11:04.080 Alaska and lives off the land and they choose to 1:11:04.120 --> 1:11:06.519 live that way. Well, the rub theres they choose to 1:11:06.560 --> 1:11:08.960 live that way. If they wanted to get into plane, 1:11:08.960 --> 1:11:11.280 fly into town and have a Hamburger, they could. They 1:11:11.320 --> 1:11:13.560 just choose to live off the land, which is admirable, 1:11:14.040 --> 1:11:16.639 but they still have a choice. And I know there, 1:11:17.240 --> 1:11:19.400 I know in this world there are many indigital the 1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:22.960 Chimane people that Steve Ronella has traveled and been around 1:11:23.680 --> 1:11:29.880 in South America. Um, there's that are still living life 1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:34.360 with thinking about food as the necessity. They have to 1:11:34.400 --> 1:11:35.840 find that, they have to forge for it. They have 1:11:35.920 --> 1:11:38.120 to find it. They have to live off what's there. 1:11:38.160 --> 1:11:43.280 They have to They don't choose to. There's no there's 1:11:43.320 --> 1:11:47.000 no other way to do it. They have to harvest 1:11:47.120 --> 1:11:51.160 and kill everything that's to sustain their cultures. Saying their 1:11:51.160 --> 1:11:54.559 people stay in their own lives, and that mindset to 1:11:54.640 --> 1:11:57.880 me is one I would love to sit and explore 1:11:58.320 --> 1:12:01.960 as long as I could know It's that is something 1:12:02.000 --> 1:12:05.800 that's I can't imagine. Um. When I was in the 1:12:05.880 --> 1:12:12.000 Arctic hunting, uh muscos My one of my guys was 1:12:12.080 --> 1:12:15.960 born in an Igloo. So we're not far removed from 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:18.479 some of the people to actually get to talk about 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:22.240 how it how that really is, I mean, the gravity 1:12:22.280 --> 1:12:28.880 that they feel that they have to kill. Um. Yeah, 1:12:29.040 --> 1:12:34.120 But then again, what was it a huge deal to them? 1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:37.280 Or or would they be like, well, we're just not 1:12:37.320 --> 1:12:39.439 gonna eat meat for a month, but we're gonna be 1:12:39.479 --> 1:12:43.320 fine on acorns. Yeah? Yeah, how how that sets up? 1:12:43.439 --> 1:12:46.400 You know? I was you know, you can read about 1:12:46.400 --> 1:12:49.479 this and study about this. Um. I hope to do more, 1:12:49.600 --> 1:12:53.920 of course, but how Yeah, the spiritual nature of hunting, 1:12:55.000 --> 1:12:58.160 worshiping the animal, worshipping the ground, worshiping the place you lived, 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:01.760 and how that man if itself is an interesting concept 1:13:01.800 --> 1:13:06.479 in and of that. Why was that happening? Was it 1:13:06.520 --> 1:13:09.280 happening because they felt that if they did that that 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:12.439 the natural world would then present them the opportunity to 1:13:12.479 --> 1:13:15.360 eat meat. Or did did they do that because their 1:13:15.400 --> 1:13:18.519 world's revolved around that animal so much so that it 1:13:18.560 --> 1:13:20.800 became a deity or he spoke to them in such 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:24.519 a way. So it's interesting to think about someone who's 1:13:25.560 --> 1:13:31.040 never known anything other than waking up and looking at 1:13:31.080 --> 1:13:32.760 the world around them and thinking about how they were 1:13:32.800 --> 1:13:35.479 going to sustain themselves. And we don't. We have no 1:13:35.600 --> 1:13:37.720 idea how that things are feelings. As much as you 1:13:37.760 --> 1:13:39.040 and I have traveled at the end of the world 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:42.439 to try to at some to find that feeling, will 1:13:42.520 --> 1:13:44.400 never know what the guy that made that air point 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:46.960 in your hand felt like when he killed an animal. 1:13:47.000 --> 1:13:49.240 Whether he felt pure joy because he knew that his 1:13:49.560 --> 1:13:51.559 people would be fed, or well, he felt some sort 1:13:51.600 --> 1:13:55.320 of sadness, or well, what connection he has the animal. Well, 1:13:55.360 --> 1:13:59.680 it's in your hunt in Nepal, you guys are telling 1:13:59.720 --> 1:14:03.400 about if you if you can kill an animal and 1:14:03.479 --> 1:14:09.240 not have any sense of remorse at all, then you 1:14:09.320 --> 1:14:11.360 might you want to sit it, sit in the trade 1:14:11.400 --> 1:14:12.960 a little bit longer and do a little bit of 1:14:13.000 --> 1:14:17.400 reflecting of some sort. But you know, and again, is 1:14:17.400 --> 1:14:20.439 it killing or harvesting? You know, we kill the animals 1:14:20.479 --> 1:14:26.840 and I have a great time doing that. I love 1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:31.200 to to kill. It is and it but it's the 1:14:31.320 --> 1:14:34.960 DNA that we share with these guys. And I respect 1:14:36.040 --> 1:14:38.840 the animals too. Sense that you can see how I 1:14:39.000 --> 1:14:42.120 respect these animals out here. What I've provided these animals 1:14:42.120 --> 1:14:45.800 on this ranch. And we kill one, we hardly kill 1:14:46.000 --> 1:14:51.840 one buck year and three does. And it's just an 1:14:51.840 --> 1:14:57.040 amazing place for these animals to live respect some level 1:14:57.120 --> 1:15:01.400 of just understanding this, this kind of tapestry of human 1:15:01.439 --> 1:15:05.320 life that we'll never know how they felt. Yeah, like 1:15:05.640 --> 1:15:10.640 it is impossible to understand how they felt. And you 1:15:10.680 --> 1:15:13.040 have a this is a buffalo hide on your wall 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:16.960 behind you. That's a buffalo calf, a buffalo calf high 1:15:17.680 --> 1:15:21.599 that is it's just a tanned you know, poorly tanned 1:15:21.680 --> 1:15:29.280 hide or an ancient it's from pre reservation. You made it. 1:15:29.320 --> 1:15:31.000 Talk about it, please do, because I was I'm now 1:15:31.040 --> 1:15:32.720 I'm looking at him, like, let's talk about this thing. 1:15:32.840 --> 1:15:35.719 So this, this hide was found an upstate New York 1:15:36.160 --> 1:15:39.000 seven home built back in the seventeen hundreds that they 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:43.160 were remodeling. And in the attic there's an old military 1:15:43.200 --> 1:15:46.639 home and in the attic bawled up in the corner 1:15:46.720 --> 1:15:50.680 they found this. They rolled it out and it's a 1:15:50.720 --> 1:15:55.519 war trophy from the Indian Wars right before a little 1:15:55.520 --> 1:15:59.200 Big Horn when they'd ran, you know, the government would 1:15:59.240 --> 1:16:04.240 come in and they'd uh essentially destroy these villages trying 1:16:04.280 --> 1:16:06.439 to wipe the Indians out. I mean, there's no other 1:16:06.439 --> 1:16:09.280 way you know about it. That's what they're doing. They 1:16:09.439 --> 1:16:14.400 take the loot. They take all this stuff that's cool 1:16:14.479 --> 1:16:16.559 to them. It's just as cool of those guys as 1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:20.920 just us. They send it back east and they would 1:16:21.000 --> 1:16:24.000 uh use you know, they call war trophies. So anyway, 1:16:24.040 --> 1:16:29.000 this and survived and it has about fifteen different scenes 1:16:29.040 --> 1:16:33.960 of it's one battle depicted here of the Sioux fighting 1:16:33.960 --> 1:16:39.559 the Pawnee, and the brilliant colors and the the artistry. 1:16:39.560 --> 1:16:43.240 It's these Indians riding in the horses, most of the 1:16:43.280 --> 1:16:47.559 Pawneer on foot, and the Sioux warriors with their brilliant 1:16:47.600 --> 1:16:52.040 head dresses. Some of them were had more feathers than others, 1:16:52.080 --> 1:16:55.719 and that depicted their social class there and in the tribe. 1:16:55.760 --> 1:16:59.800 But they're they're having a fallen battle, no guns, all 1:17:00.000 --> 1:17:04.719 own arrow and lances and uh, it's just a piece 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:12.160 of art that is extremely rare. That uh by getting 1:17:12.200 --> 1:17:16.840 to know the people in the subculture world of artifacts 1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:19.559 that I was fortunate enough to come across and uh 1:17:20.760 --> 1:17:24.400 now it's displayed in the Indian room. Yeah, that's just amazing. 1:17:24.439 --> 1:17:26.760 I was looking at the deal. I guess you call 1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:30.439 an illustrations pictions of what those look like, and that's 1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:39.040 such a striking Yeah, it gives color to to there. 1:17:40.760 --> 1:17:42.559 It's hard to look back in time and see it 1:17:42.600 --> 1:17:47.000 in color. Um. It's like that country song Jamie Johnson sings. 1:17:47.360 --> 1:17:50.160 But anyway, it's hard to see that in color. You 1:17:50.240 --> 1:17:53.160 go back that was a couple of hundred years ago, 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:55.600 you go back eight six, eight thousand, you or you 1:17:55.640 --> 1:17:59.120 go back to the clubs culture. And it's not just buckskin, 1:17:59.400 --> 1:18:02.520 just one other. I mean, these guys had these brilliant 1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:06.240 shells from that they were trading from the West coast 1:18:06.400 --> 1:18:11.960 with inset uh stone, different types of turquoise and all 1:18:12.040 --> 1:18:18.960 inset um. Just some amazingly ornate um dresses and with 1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:22.439 elk teeth, with a hundred sets of bugle and teeth 1:18:22.520 --> 1:18:27.519 on one elk skirt the ladies wore. Well, well, I've 1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:29.280 got a couple of see how I pull them up 1:18:29.320 --> 1:18:31.000 here the first time I've ever kind of asked for 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:37.000 some questions from past listeners about the topic. There's a 1:18:37.000 --> 1:18:39.000 few good ones here. We'll go. We'll just do two 1:18:39.000 --> 1:18:44.519 of them. Chase Rutherford, it asked, h Well, you already 1:18:44.600 --> 1:18:46.640 kind of covered this, but to be interesting to get 1:18:46.640 --> 1:18:50.360 back over, do you have any Clovis points and what 1:18:50.400 --> 1:18:54.639 were they used for? Specifically? Do you you know, let's 1:18:54.640 --> 1:18:57.360 talk about it. You said you not found clothes here, 1:18:57.360 --> 1:18:59.759 and I hadn't found clothes here, but but I believe 1:18:59.760 --> 1:19:02.640 they're to be. Absolutely there's I've have some of my 1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:08.280 uh digging buddies um have found Clovis and uh the 1:19:08.360 --> 1:19:11.760 last one buddy have found one in Johnson City, which 1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:15.519 from the back road here is about fifteen minutes. So 1:19:15.640 --> 1:19:18.840 absolutely there's Clovis sites. But the Clovis sites are so 1:19:18.960 --> 1:19:21.200 much harder to find because they didn't they didn't cook 1:19:21.240 --> 1:19:25.800 in this midden style camp um, and then they were 1:19:25.840 --> 1:19:27.800 just so nomadic. They may have been there for three 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:31.880 nights and maybe left two piece to Clovis points are 1:19:32.080 --> 1:19:36.400 none and so a lot of the Clovis pickups are 1:19:36.479 --> 1:19:39.920 missed shots or they shoot at something they can't find 1:19:39.920 --> 1:19:42.439 their their shaft and then we find them. It may 1:19:42.520 --> 1:19:45.479 not necessary, that's just a random fine. And so the 1:19:45.560 --> 1:19:51.680 closes there they hunted, uh mammoth um. That's what the 1:19:51.760 --> 1:19:54.200 clothes you know, Clovis in New Mexico where they found 1:19:54.200 --> 1:19:57.000 that carcass. That mammoth carcass were five closed points in 1:19:57.040 --> 1:20:01.479 it um. But I'm sure they're their clubs cultures hunting 1:20:01.560 --> 1:20:06.320 armadals with them and deer and and whatever else that 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:08.960 they can throw at. Yeah, what's the importance of that? 1:20:09.160 --> 1:20:11.000 I mean, I've I've heard and read a little about 1:20:11.040 --> 1:20:13.960 the clubs culture. It seems like a of those that 1:20:14.040 --> 1:20:16.479 know a little bit about Asian hunters an important culture 1:20:16.520 --> 1:20:18.360 to know. Could you like place that of the sense 1:20:18.400 --> 1:20:22.839 of time? There there thought to be the first peoples 1:20:22.880 --> 1:20:26.400 of North America to inhabit North America and that's why 1:20:26.439 --> 1:20:31.320 they're so, that's why they're so important. And and um, 1:20:31.400 --> 1:20:34.200 so they date back to twelve five twelve thousand five 1:20:34.640 --> 1:20:37.439 years ago and they went extinct about ten thousand years ago. 1:20:38.320 --> 1:20:40.439 They went extinct with the bison. And take us here 1:20:40.479 --> 1:20:44.840 and um which is a skull on pointing out of um, 1:20:44.920 --> 1:20:47.320 Buddy Mine has a big bison jump on his ranch 1:20:47.360 --> 1:20:53.719 in Wyoming. Yeah, Frank Neville. Ridiculous, ridiculous artifacts there. But yeah, Okay, 1:20:53.720 --> 1:20:57.040 that's so that's what they're hunting. They're hunting whatever they 1:20:57.040 --> 1:21:00.719 can eat. They're shooting them at turkeys, they're they're they're 1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:05.400 just surviving, I mean big time surviving. And uh, that's good. 1:21:05.400 --> 1:21:07.040 Look up the clothes culture. If you don't know much 1:21:07.080 --> 1:21:09.439 about it, there's a lot of interesting books and things 1:21:09.439 --> 1:21:11.000 out there, all to try to throw some links to 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:13.759 some of my flute in the club in the point 1:21:13.920 --> 1:21:18.000 is what's yeah that specific about about that? It has 1:21:18.040 --> 1:21:19.880 a big flute that runs up the middle of it 1:21:20.560 --> 1:21:23.680 where they would have to where the the stick would go. 1:21:24.120 --> 1:21:28.240 It's like a almost like an indentation. Yeah, they're being 1:21:28.240 --> 1:21:30.840 a big channel of flint out of the middle of it, 1:21:31.040 --> 1:21:32.880 you know, and then make it thinner so they could 1:21:33.320 --> 1:21:36.639 put it down the shaft easier and then they could 1:21:36.760 --> 1:21:38.439 use their sin you to tie it on in the 1:21:38.520 --> 1:21:42.520 asphaltum or the book. Here we're looking at the paleo 1:21:42.640 --> 1:21:45.599 the paleo period of the Clovis ten thousand BC two 1:21:45.680 --> 1:21:49.280 nine thousand BC. Some of these points that are channeled 1:21:49.280 --> 1:21:52.360 out in the center interesting looking. But that's why he's 1:21:52.400 --> 1:21:56.280 asking about. That's the fine. I mean, you find the Clovis, 1:21:56.280 --> 1:21:58.760 whether it's broken or just the base or whatever, and 1:21:58.800 --> 1:22:02.439 you're that's been on this continent. Yeah, that's the oldest, 1:22:03.400 --> 1:22:06.240 oldest people that were. I think we're all collectively rooting 1:22:06.240 --> 1:22:09.120 for you to get the ball close. We just got 1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:12.599 a big deeper Uh well, we got tools to do it, yes, sir, 1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:15.360 Chris I don't know how to say your last name. Sorry, 1:22:15.439 --> 1:22:19.400 Chris Gleam g l e I g l E I am. 1:22:19.520 --> 1:22:21.519 So I'm really interested in the skills of our ancient 1:22:21.600 --> 1:22:25.439 hunting ancestors that they acquired and how those are passed 1:22:25.439 --> 1:22:27.840 on us today and how the use or misuse of 1:22:27.880 --> 1:22:32.920 them effects are everyday lives, specifically the skills. Yeah, so 1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:37.240 I can just picture these guys and a friend of mine, 1:22:37.960 --> 1:22:43.000 um who has this amazing collection of cave stuff, has 1:22:43.880 --> 1:22:49.000 a whole collection of little kids toys and doll bow 1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:51.439 and arrows made for little dolls that are like this 1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:54.920 that are about three inches tied perfectly with all the 1:22:56.439 --> 1:23:01.880 to scale everything. And so while our kids are playing, 1:23:01.960 --> 1:23:06.759 you know, playing video games or jumping rope or whatever 1:23:06.840 --> 1:23:13.240 they're they're playing shooting games with their at lattles to learn. Yeah, 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:16.240 and there, you know, I'm sure I can We're picture 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:18.960 in them sitting up over a great water source or 1:23:19.040 --> 1:23:22.880 or a big of the few trees, the oak tree 1:23:22.920 --> 1:23:25.240 that's dropping the acorns and the deer they're they're up 1:23:25.240 --> 1:23:27.720 in the top and there waiting on that deer to 1:23:27.760 --> 1:23:32.439 come in. And the um, you know, they're a lot 1:23:32.439 --> 1:23:36.040 more silent and they had to be. Their stocking abilities 1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:39.559 and their tracking abilities were if you've if you've been 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:44.000 to Africa and seeing the trackers there, it's just mind blowing. 1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:46.960 What they can look out across a hundred yards and 1:23:47.000 --> 1:23:50.960 see one blade of grass it's been over and know 1:23:51.080 --> 1:23:54.000 what direction where and see these are things that they read, 1:23:54.040 --> 1:23:59.320 like the oxidation in the stand how many hours? And 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:03.400 so these are things that we um with our awesome 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:09.040 bows don't need to learn, and so we don't. Most 1:24:09.080 --> 1:24:12.439 of us don't learn that. Even the most skilled hunters 1:24:13.160 --> 1:24:16.479 um bow hunters and the guys that are doing long 1:24:16.520 --> 1:24:20.240 bows and all that are amazing, But but we're missing 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:23.200 such a big piece of the Yeah, I think about 1:24:23.200 --> 1:24:25.320 even your passion, like if your passion was a river. 1:24:25.360 --> 1:24:27.920 The bigger this river gets, the more tributaries it has, 1:24:28.280 --> 1:24:30.840 you know, so as you find more heads and get 1:24:30.840 --> 1:24:33.960 more passion and dig deeper, you you have to almost 1:24:33.960 --> 1:24:38.639 by proxy, learn about the natural world. Here, the trees, 1:24:38.760 --> 1:24:40.439 the rock, what type of rocks are in the ground, 1:24:40.520 --> 1:24:43.840 what type of soil um what to look for you 1:24:43.880 --> 1:24:46.920 know in that soil. So you, like you said, become 1:24:46.960 --> 1:24:50.360 an amateur archaeologist just by your own the passion where 1:24:50.360 --> 1:24:52.240 it leads you. As that you know, the river of 1:24:52.280 --> 1:24:55.120 your passion gets bigger, it's gonna branch off into other 1:24:55.320 --> 1:24:57.479 knowledge bases you might not have if you didn't love 1:24:57.560 --> 1:25:01.040 hiding arrowheads, right, I totally agree. And and you know, 1:25:01.120 --> 1:25:04.519 and back to his point on on the skills and 1:25:04.560 --> 1:25:09.360 all it's it takes it just a few moved ten 1:25:09.439 --> 1:25:12.800 percent of of the knowledge that if the hunter has 1:25:12.840 --> 1:25:15.479 to kill a big elk, you just you if you 1:25:15.600 --> 1:25:17.320 were willing to get off the couch and go find 1:25:17.320 --> 1:25:19.240 one and look at shoot through your scope and he's dead, 1:25:20.080 --> 1:25:23.760 but you missed where was that elk last night? And 1:25:23.800 --> 1:25:25.880 what path was he on? And what was he eating? 1:25:25.920 --> 1:25:28.479 And where do I need to set up? And where 1:25:28.479 --> 1:25:31.640 do I need to set my next camp for my 1:25:31.720 --> 1:25:39.240 family to live three more months? Knowing the the way 1:25:39.280 --> 1:25:42.000 that the elk travel this certain time of year, and 1:25:42.040 --> 1:25:44.720 there's so much stuff that we're missing that that we 1:25:44.760 --> 1:25:49.720 don't need but but would be awesome to know. And 1:25:50.040 --> 1:25:53.519 that's an awesome question. It's just that really that question 1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:55.280 right there is you could sit around here and have 1:25:55.320 --> 1:25:58.240 a have a drink and talk for hours about Yeah, 1:25:58.400 --> 1:26:02.040 I mean, there's so many When I was an editor 1:26:02.080 --> 1:26:05.160 of Petersons Hunting Magazine or one of the editors. Um, 1:26:05.240 --> 1:26:07.639 we always every year did like an old school issue 1:26:07.680 --> 1:26:10.519 where we would celebrate some sort of old school things. 1:26:10.560 --> 1:26:14.000 But our old school was like, oh the eighties, in 1:26:14.040 --> 1:26:17.960 the seventies, what did they do? We never thought too 1:26:18.240 --> 1:26:22.040 or I haven't seen anybody think too. Really look hard 1:26:22.040 --> 1:26:26.280 at how these ancient hunters lived their lives, and why 1:26:26.320 --> 1:26:28.680 they lived the way they did, and how they you know, 1:26:28.800 --> 1:26:32.000 we're talking thousands of thousands of years here where you've 1:26:32.000 --> 1:26:36.800 got from the Clovis people to the Falsome people. Such 1:26:36.840 --> 1:26:39.640 an evolution in the human body, the human brain, the 1:26:39.720 --> 1:26:47.760 human the human ability that we can't conceive of that. Yeah, 1:26:47.800 --> 1:26:50.800 so just now a thousand years later, we're looking at 1:26:50.880 --> 1:26:53.360 in the Paleo period Falsome points, which are much more 1:26:53.439 --> 1:26:56.960 diminut if still still ornate almost in the way that 1:26:56.960 --> 1:27:01.200 they were incredible they were made. So even the older 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:05.680 the you know, you've there're so old times around here 1:27:05.720 --> 1:27:08.000 that you find a crude air and they're like, oh, 1:27:08.040 --> 1:27:12.360 that's old, that's all. No. Really old stuff is the 1:27:12.560 --> 1:27:15.719 stuff that is truly a work of art and and 1:27:15.720 --> 1:27:19.160 and it seems like you're looking at the fulsome people 1:27:19.160 --> 1:27:21.640 here in nine thousand BC, or even back over to 1:27:21.680 --> 1:27:24.160 the Clovis people then they're the first few people in 1:27:24.240 --> 1:27:27.799 seven thousand. These are if somebody handed that to you today, 1:27:27.840 --> 1:27:29.600 you would say you would want to put it in 1:27:29.600 --> 1:27:33.040 a case. Know what it was? That's such a beautiful 1:27:33.040 --> 1:27:35.840 piece of stone. I did find a plane view which 1:27:35.920 --> 1:27:39.960 is eight thousand BC, when I was hunting up an 1:27:40.040 --> 1:27:43.719 lope with with Phil out in the Mexican But yeah, 1:27:43.800 --> 1:27:45.639 and it's in it. I left it on the ranch. 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:49.240 You know. It's beautiful. It's beautiful pieces. Yeah, and that 1:27:49.479 --> 1:27:52.599 it's it doesn't as rudimentary as it is. It just 1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:55.599 it doesn't seem that way to look at that. These photos, 1:27:55.800 --> 1:27:58.880 the beautiful photos in this book. You can't hardly machine these, no, 1:28:00.120 --> 1:28:04.200 no any better. I mean, it's just amazing. And so 1:28:04.560 --> 1:28:11.000 the credit that that I give these ancient people now 1:28:11.880 --> 1:28:16.080 as to where you know, seeing them in black and white. 1:28:16.120 --> 1:28:20.800 Back when I was growing up, these people were amazing 1:28:21.439 --> 1:28:24.640 people and I'd love to hang out with them. I 1:28:24.680 --> 1:28:28.559 love them, I do. I mean, I love their culture. 1:28:28.600 --> 1:28:33.400 I just that that's what's the driving force in all this. Yeah. Well, 1:28:33.439 --> 1:28:37.639 and it's I've come to depreciate perspectives of all kinds, 1:28:37.640 --> 1:28:40.000 and the reason why we record these conversations to try 1:28:40.080 --> 1:28:43.400 to let have introduce your perspective to other people, right, 1:28:43.479 --> 1:28:46.080 and then maybe it's something you've said during this conversation 1:28:46.120 --> 1:28:48.840 can help change the way that they think about our 1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:51.559 history as hunters or why hunting might be important to them, 1:28:51.560 --> 1:28:53.679 and they're not even really sure about how to break 1:28:53.720 --> 1:28:56.920 that down their own minds, Like your love for these 1:28:56.960 --> 1:29:02.320 ancient people, UM goes way beyond just possessing the things 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:05.000 that they made one time. You know what's what's crazy 1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:08.800 about it is the schools don't don't even teach this 1:29:08.880 --> 1:29:12.120 thing at all. They're like, yeah, some of the more 1:29:12.240 --> 1:29:15.639 interesting being in discussion now. When we were talking about earlier, 1:29:15.880 --> 1:29:18.880 I'm getting ready to leave Texas probably for good and 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:21.840 move to Montana set up home up there. And then 1:29:21.920 --> 1:29:25.200 part of thinking about my leaving here because my son 1:29:25.280 --> 1:29:27.519 was born here, you know, so it's an important place 1:29:27.520 --> 1:29:30.479 for me, and uh, part of my leaving here was 1:29:30.479 --> 1:29:32.160 trying to have trying to figure out how to have 1:29:32.200 --> 1:29:35.880 conversation with people like yourself that born race, grew up 1:29:35.920 --> 1:29:40.200 and have this intense appreciation for the natural world here. UM, 1:29:40.240 --> 1:29:42.559 because as as different as Montan and Texas are, they 1:29:42.560 --> 1:29:45.360 both have their own stories. If you live in a place, 1:29:46.120 --> 1:29:48.280 uh and don't know the story of the history of 1:29:48.320 --> 1:29:52.600 the place that you live, start reading because that's I 1:29:52.600 --> 1:29:55.439 mean having like connection, family connection you have to this ground. 1:29:55.439 --> 1:29:58.920 But then also the connection to the ancient humans. That's 1:29:58.920 --> 1:30:02.920 pretty unique. Yeah, it's interesome and something that you can't 1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:05.840 nobody can duplicate that. You know, you can't duplicate that 1:30:05.880 --> 1:30:08.920 by going to the Smithsonian and looking around the connection 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:11.719 you have to these heads in this place. Yeah, it's great, 1:30:12.800 --> 1:30:15.800 it's great. Well, we love it, man, we love it. 1:30:16.280 --> 1:30:21.800 And it's comes across. Your kids are awesome. So your daughter, 1:30:21.880 --> 1:30:24.479 your oldest daughter, is going with you to the Brooks Range? 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:26.240 Are you telling me going to the northern part of 1:30:26.240 --> 1:30:30.280 the Brooks Trains just recently apart that just recently opened 1:30:31.160 --> 1:30:35.720 um to hunting. Our guide has that big new concession 1:30:35.760 --> 1:30:38.960 up there and lots of sheep. She'll be ten next 1:30:39.240 --> 1:30:43.599 uh August. And my dad took me, took my brother 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:45.559 and me when we were when I was ten and 1:30:45.560 --> 1:30:48.920 here he was twelve, to the Brooks Rains and we 1:30:49.000 --> 1:30:53.400 broaly got caribou and doll sheep and it's uh so 1:30:53.520 --> 1:30:56.160 my daughters. She's like, all right, well when I'm ten, 1:30:56.240 --> 1:30:59.000 we're going on And I was like, you bet you 1:30:59.000 --> 1:31:01.479 your daughters ago. Yeah, he's raised them to be brave, 1:31:01.760 --> 1:31:04.760 brave young ladies. Um, and that's awesome. Going as I 1:31:04.760 --> 1:31:07.320 started hunt when I was eleven. I think maybe I 1:31:07.360 --> 1:31:12.800 was just shooting spikes on the in Maryland. But um, yeah, 1:31:12.840 --> 1:31:15.680 you've traveled the world. Yeah, made it to Nepal. You know, 1:31:15.760 --> 1:31:17.879 I don't know how many of us the Paul hunters 1:31:17.880 --> 1:31:20.800 there there are. I guess the Paul well they only 1:31:20.840 --> 1:31:23.960 have what twenty tags a year and it was closed 1:31:23.960 --> 1:31:26.559 for how a decade? Not longer? With their silver war 1:31:26.720 --> 1:31:30.439 you got. Really that Nepaul deal is pretty special. I 1:31:30.439 --> 1:31:33.960 mean you have to really want to challenge yourself and 1:31:33.960 --> 1:31:37.400 to to get out and yeah, yeah, I mean you 1:31:37.400 --> 1:31:40.760 you went last year, well not last year, just got back, 1:31:40.840 --> 1:31:44.880 just got back from April April, um, a year after 1:31:44.960 --> 1:31:47.439 I went. Well, if you not heard the podcast that 1:31:47.680 --> 1:31:49.599 it David Cole Cramer on the subject, you should listen 1:31:49.640 --> 1:31:53.639 to it. Um. So I won't tell retail my story anymore. 1:31:53.680 --> 1:31:56.080 But how do you find going to Nepal? I mean, 1:31:56.160 --> 1:31:59.040 it's like I said that there's a rare group until 1:31:59.120 --> 1:32:02.080 now that have gone on that can tell stories. But 1:32:02.720 --> 1:32:04.800 I'm sure more people will go in there. So it 1:32:04.960 --> 1:32:08.920 was amazing to get to be in the Himalayas, to 1:32:09.120 --> 1:32:13.160 be it eighteen thousand feet. So we when we went, 1:32:13.240 --> 1:32:15.799 we thought that the snowpack was gonna be heavy and 1:32:16.160 --> 1:32:18.519 we'd be hunting sheep at twelve to fourteen thousand. And 1:32:19.160 --> 1:32:22.800 we show up and and I could tell the guide 1:32:22.920 --> 1:32:26.000 was dodging the question off that when we got off 1:32:26.040 --> 1:32:29.519 the airplane, and finally he's like, look, guys, no snow, 1:32:29.680 --> 1:32:31.360 not much snow this year. You're gonna be hunting at 1:32:31.360 --> 1:32:35.680 eighteen thousand feet every day. And uh, the worst part 1:32:35.720 --> 1:32:38.760 about it was cat mean do flu Yeah, I got 1:32:38.760 --> 1:32:41.040 it to ben at it pretty bad. Yeah, at least 1:32:41.040 --> 1:32:43.080 we can we can sit and have a whisky talk 1:32:43.120 --> 1:32:48.040 about catman do flu man? This means like that, but 1:32:48.120 --> 1:32:50.800 that we were talking about that that place. Um, I'll 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:53.920 stop inter up in your story. But the place, it's 1:32:53.960 --> 1:32:57.960 just a a and the Western sense of the feeling 1:32:58.000 --> 1:33:01.080 an assault on all on your body, the air quality, 1:33:01.280 --> 1:33:05.040 the food quality, just everything is assaulted. Then when you 1:33:05.080 --> 1:33:07.559 get the eighteen towns of feet, your entire you know, 1:33:08.040 --> 1:33:11.840 your circadian rhythms that are being assaulted by the way 1:33:11.880 --> 1:33:15.760 you wait you sleep. Well, we were, you know, we 1:33:15.960 --> 1:33:19.360 get up to sixteen thousand and the guys are like, here, 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:22.000 some sheep just's and I'm like, well, where's the rock. 1:33:22.120 --> 1:33:26.519 I gotta you know, diarrhea bad and so man, it was. 1:33:26.760 --> 1:33:30.599 It was three days eating rice and uh, thank god, 1:33:30.640 --> 1:33:32.880 I brought some heater meals. I've read an article and 1:33:32.920 --> 1:33:35.160 said bring something I brought so we could have some 1:33:36.240 --> 1:33:39.160 spaghetti or something or whatever, just enough to survive. But 1:33:39.280 --> 1:33:41.840 we were going along there. At one point my hunting 1:33:41.840 --> 1:33:45.280 buddy looked at him and he looked like hell, And 1:33:45.360 --> 1:33:48.560 I said, Kurt, you all right man? He goes l 1:33:48.600 --> 1:33:51.720 So I'm just trying to survive, and and I could 1:33:51.800 --> 1:33:55.120 see that he was not joking, and He's like, we 1:33:55.240 --> 1:33:57.120 made it to that day. And then in camp that 1:33:57.240 --> 1:33:59.840 night he goes, I swear to god, I thought we 1:33:59.840 --> 1:34:02.200 were I have to call in dang helicopter or something 1:34:02.200 --> 1:34:07.200 to save me. It's good to hear that a huge sheep, 1:34:07.439 --> 1:34:09.719 I know, it like the biggest sheep I've ever seen. 1:34:09.920 --> 1:34:11.640 Although you know, we went there, we didn't see that 1:34:11.680 --> 1:34:14.320 many because we were struggling to get close to him. 1:34:14.360 --> 1:34:17.160 But yeah, that's that's a probably a whole another podcast 1:34:17.240 --> 1:34:19.320 about a journey like that, but it's it's cool to 1:34:19.320 --> 1:34:22.120 see somebody like yourself that is able to do this 1:34:22.200 --> 1:34:24.760 at home and still travel and do those things that 1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:27.320 bring your kids along. I mean, well in the you know, 1:34:27.400 --> 1:34:29.000 I was bringing their head with me when I go 1:34:29.920 --> 1:34:33.240 um that when I was at the Hickoria. Yeah that 1:34:33.479 --> 1:34:36.679 the grind inch down there, you know that. The cool 1:34:36.800 --> 1:34:40.839 deal about that was talking to and a true apache 1:34:40.920 --> 1:34:47.120 my good buddy now Bernard I nz uh Man, just 1:34:47.160 --> 1:34:49.240 getting to hear that side of things. But anyway we 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:51.640 can go, you know, all kinds of different deals. But 1:34:52.080 --> 1:34:56.840 talking to to our guide in Nepal around camp about 1:34:57.280 --> 1:35:00.080 his culture and what artifacts are they finding in on 1:35:00.720 --> 1:35:03.280 I brought home a sixty year fifty year old knife 1:35:03.320 --> 1:35:07.080 that was used in their camp. That's just archaic and 1:35:07.280 --> 1:35:13.800 just total badass. Chopped up Shocky Sheep chopped up a 1:35:13.800 --> 1:35:17.599 fifty year old knife that chocked the Jim Shocky's Yeah, 1:35:18.080 --> 1:35:20.000 Blue Sheep, I got it. I asked him for it, 1:35:20.040 --> 1:35:22.200 and he said, you know you you're gonna respect it 1:35:22.280 --> 1:35:25.519 and and your passion for it, dude, to take it 1:35:25.600 --> 1:35:29.320 home and display it and tell people about Nepal. Yeah, 1:35:29.640 --> 1:35:32.360 well that's it too. I mean people, we get caught 1:35:32.400 --> 1:35:35.600 up in this idea that you know, going over to 1:35:35.640 --> 1:35:37.800 Nepal might be some truffy hunt where you're just looking 1:35:37.840 --> 1:35:40.080 to bring back the handlers or the anilers to the 1:35:40.080 --> 1:35:42.040 horns in this case, and tell everybody how great you 1:35:42.080 --> 1:35:44.400 are if by doing it. But it means so much 1:35:44.439 --> 1:35:47.599 more as a person to venture over there and do that, 1:35:47.720 --> 1:35:50.240 and to know in the going that the animal will 1:35:50.280 --> 1:35:54.080 be consumed and it's totality. Um, that's a huge part 1:35:54.080 --> 1:35:58.160 of it, of course, but but to see the artifacts 1:35:58.160 --> 1:35:59.960 you brought back, and we were comparing stories about what 1:36:00.080 --> 1:36:02.040 I'm up brought back, what you brought back, and the 1:36:02.160 --> 1:36:04.960 respect we have for those people and the culture and 1:36:05.000 --> 1:36:06.800 the and the chance to go and do that. I 1:36:06.840 --> 1:36:10.400 mean there, you know, any pushback someone might give you, 1:36:10.800 --> 1:36:13.360 especially the way that you've displayed your hunting life and 1:36:13.560 --> 1:36:17.519 artifact life here in this room, it is preposterous. Um. 1:36:17.720 --> 1:36:19.880 Not that they're there's anybody that ever has challenged my 1:36:20.040 --> 1:36:22.880 going to Nepal or yours, but just to say, like 1:36:22.960 --> 1:36:27.080 for proof, positive of respect for culture, respect for animals, 1:36:27.080 --> 1:36:31.240 respect people. Um, it's here, man, it's it's it's in 1:36:31.280 --> 1:36:34.960 the walls. Yeah it is. It's cool. We love it. 1:36:35.560 --> 1:36:37.360 We do. Well. That's a that's a good, good hour 1:36:37.400 --> 1:36:40.240 and a half. It's good to end on the fact 1:36:40.240 --> 1:36:42.400 that you take these arrowheads to the places you go 1:36:42.439 --> 1:36:44.120 and give them to the people that you meet. I 1:36:44.200 --> 1:36:48.559 think that's a damn good way to bring Texas to Yeah, 1:36:49.160 --> 1:36:50.600 it'll be fun for me because you gave me a 1:36:50.680 --> 1:36:53.240 nice display of arrowheads from from your ranch here, So 1:36:53.240 --> 1:36:57.000 I'm gonna take those Montana display the office. Real cool, 1:36:57.240 --> 1:37:00.240 real cool. Well, thank you, Russell. All right, So yeah, 1:37:01.840 --> 1:37:07.880 that's it. That's all episode number in the books. Russell Cunningham, 1:37:08.200 --> 1:37:11.120 thank you for letting us into your home and letting 1:37:11.200 --> 1:37:13.960 us into your life to hear about you in your 1:37:14.000 --> 1:37:18.000 family and what you do. Russell did ask me after 1:37:18.000 --> 1:37:21.240 the fact to explain to everybody that, uh, in Texas, 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:26.360 on your own private property you can dig and keep 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:29.120 is artifacts that we spoke up in the podcast. So 1:37:29.880 --> 1:37:32.599 a lot of other states that is not the case, um, 1:37:32.680 --> 1:37:35.599 but here in Texas that is. So I just want 1:37:35.600 --> 1:37:39.400 to make Scheck make that clear that Russell is respectful 1:37:39.400 --> 1:37:41.280 of the land and of the history of the place 1:37:41.720 --> 1:37:45.680 and understands what he's doing here in Texas finding artifacts, 1:37:45.960 --> 1:37:48.880 and so hopefully you learned a little bit about the 1:37:48.960 --> 1:37:52.679 history of this place and some of the hunting cultures 1:37:53.200 --> 1:37:55.800 that called this place home. So that's it for number. 1:37:56.640 --> 1:38:01.160 Number is coming up next twenty is going to be 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:04.560 with a with a fairly special man. That man is 1:38:04.720 --> 1:38:09.200 Eddie Reese. Coach. Eddie Reese. Eddie Reese is the winning 1:38:09.280 --> 1:38:11.680 ist n C double A coach of all time. He 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:16.080 is the head swimming coach for the last oh Man 1:38:16.280 --> 1:38:19.559 since nine at least that's why I remember years. That 1:38:19.680 --> 1:38:23.719 is the head swimming coach of the University of Texas. 1:38:23.920 --> 1:38:26.519 And he's a hunter. Eddie is used hunting in his 1:38:26.720 --> 1:38:31.720 past to help train Olympic athletes who gold medals. And 1:38:31.720 --> 1:38:34.320 there's somebody who values his time outside. So he's another 1:38:34.320 --> 1:38:37.160 extraordinary man, seventy seven years old. We're gonna hear from 1:38:37.200 --> 1:38:40.960 him next time. I'm hunting Collective. Until then, go to 1:38:41.000 --> 1:38:44.120 the website, hit us up and tell us how we did, 1:38:45.000 --> 1:38:50.720 and keep listening, keep enjoying the conversation, keep praising, keep 1:38:50.720 --> 1:39:02.320 telling us how we get back see you M in 1:39:03.000 --> 1:39:12.800 a m