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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome Episode number twenty five The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien and today continuing our tour of Texas

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Speaker 1: as my family leaves to head north to Montana, and

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Speaker 1: this tour stop is close to my home in Tripping Springs, Texas.

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Speaker 1: And Russell Cunningham is is our man today, and he's

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Speaker 1: gonna tell us about archaeology, about amateur archaeology, but about

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Speaker 1: a passion for the history of his state of Texas,

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Speaker 1: his home place of Dripping Springs, and his lineage, which

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Speaker 1: is hunting. Here's a man who has found thousands, maybe

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Speaker 1: one of the largest amateur collections of arrowheads in the

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Speaker 1: United States. He has collected artifacts from around the West.

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Speaker 1: He has collected paintings, and he has collecting art that

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Speaker 1: all point back to one place. That point back. They

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Speaker 1: point back to his appreciation history and of the cultures

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Speaker 1: that led us to where we are now, most specifically

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Speaker 1: the cultures that lived the place he's lived his entire life. Uh,

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Speaker 1: He's as much a part of this land as anyone else.

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Speaker 1: His family has cultivated this land over many generations. He

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Speaker 1: has lived there for most of his entire life, and

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Speaker 1: now he's raising his kids there and it just so

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Speaker 1: happens to be you can go pretty close to their

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Speaker 1: backyard and fine air heads that are three thousand years

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Speaker 1: old and speak to us about a culture of people

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Speaker 1: that live in Texas. So enjoy my friend Russell his

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Speaker 1: amateur archaeology career and the collection that he has a

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Speaker 1: mass that is impressive. Episode number come in at all, right, Russell,

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Speaker 1: this is your first podcast ever, first one virgin version.

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Speaker 1: Well we'll get you through it. We've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of interesting stuff to cover, of course. Um, but first,

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Speaker 1: I always like to have people describe where we are

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Speaker 1: because we're having a video here, So give us a

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Speaker 1: quick description of the room or sitting in. So be

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Speaker 1: as detail as you please, because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff in here. Well, we're in uh, my dream home

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Speaker 1: on the ranch I grew up on. Um. The room

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Speaker 1: is uh was planning to be the Indian Room, and

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Speaker 1: so growing up, all the artifacts that I had been finding,

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Speaker 1: I had a dream of putting them in a room

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Speaker 1: which would be someone's similar to a study. But I've

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Speaker 1: done all the study and I need to do so

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Speaker 1: it's uh, all the walls have either have you know

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Speaker 1: either great big mule deer or pre reservation, bow and

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Speaker 1: arrow quivers, UM, arrows with trade points, lots of arrowheads

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Speaker 1: that we found on the ranch. UM, lots of stones,

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Speaker 1: grinding stones, UM, a couple of old bison heads that

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Speaker 1: that predate the bison, bison, and uh, mainly just artifacts

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Speaker 1: that my family and I have collected over the years. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Would you label yourself an artifact collector? How would you

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Speaker 1: label yourself as a in general in that space? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess of amateur archaeologists of sorts, but yeah, a

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Speaker 1: collector definitely. I just can't get enough of the prehistoric hunter?

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Speaker 1: Is that what drove you to collecting? I mean, would

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Speaker 1: you call it a collection or more just an exploration

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Speaker 1: of one the place you live, this ranch, which is beautiful,

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Speaker 1: but to just kind of that connection, like you say

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Speaker 1: to our ancestors. Yeah, both, I mean it's I love

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Speaker 1: to collect, um. I like to to show people what

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Speaker 1: we find, what we're looking for out here, what we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: There's so few people that actually get to experience what

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Speaker 1: we get to experience. And my kids, Um, my kids

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Speaker 1: are six and nine, two girls, and they found more

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Speaker 1: airheads than most men will ever find. And uh, we're

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Speaker 1: just in it so deep, it's just part of it's

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Speaker 1: just a passion that I have and it's and it's

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Speaker 1: the same passion that I have for hunting. It's it's

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Speaker 1: hard to describe and less you know you're a you're

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Speaker 1: a true hunter yourself. Well, I think when you see

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Speaker 1: what's in front of us on this table or hopefully

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Speaker 1: all let folks get a good look at the way

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Speaker 1: that you dig, what you dig for, but then at

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Speaker 1: the same time, how you display it in the reverence

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Speaker 1: with which I mean in this room you're just playing

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Speaker 1: things you've found. And we were talking before this. I

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Speaker 1: grew up my dad and I uh relicanted my entire

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Speaker 1: childhood and he had the same kind of way of

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Speaker 1: displaying his fines. It was mostly Civil War era artifacts things,

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Speaker 1: but the same reverence that you could see. And sitting

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Speaker 1: in this room, you can tell by the way you've

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Speaker 1: displayed things you found, the reverence you have for it,

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Speaker 1: how important it is to you that it's appreciated. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's evident in these displays. Well, thank you. It's a

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Speaker 1: lot of time has gone into two finding the points

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Speaker 1: and then like you said, just the way they're displayed.

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Speaker 1: It's it's uh I almost want people to think when

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Speaker 1: they come in here, to be able to put themselves

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Speaker 1: back five, six, eight thousand years ago and did look

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Speaker 1: at each point and wonder where that point has been,

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Speaker 1: who made it, the weather that was going on at

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Speaker 1: the time, in the struggles that those people's that were

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Speaker 1: we're having at the time that uh or or not struggling.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the people probably had a lot better than

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Speaker 1: we did. And anyway, yeah, each piece, I mean, as

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Speaker 1: you take them, we'll go through kind of how you

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Speaker 1: came to to to be an amateur archaeologist and how

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Speaker 1: you came to be on this piece of land. But

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Speaker 1: we we went for a little ride to look at

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Speaker 1: one of your uh sites where you're you're currently finding heads, arrowheads,

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Speaker 1: and it's clear to me that all those things are

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Speaker 1: relevant to you when you find a piece. The first

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Speaker 1: thing you said to me when I picked up my

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Speaker 1: first arrowhead over there was the last time somebody had

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Speaker 1: their hands on that was probably three thousand years ago.

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Speaker 1: And that's um something I hope it's not lost on me.

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Speaker 1: And I even looking around here, I'm geeking out and

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Speaker 1: want to ask question about every little piece of stone

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Speaker 1: that you got here, and so I hope everybody listening

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Speaker 1: to this can can realize the amount of history that

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Speaker 1: is built into hunting, the amount of history that is

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Speaker 1: built into what we're doing. Uh, it's built in our

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Speaker 1: genetic code, for lack of a better way to describe it.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, this being even for your little girls

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Speaker 1: to grow up in a place where they're so connected

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Speaker 1: to three thousand years prior is really unbelievable to me.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, just to to find out why or

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Speaker 1: how you got here. Maybe you don't even know why,

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Speaker 1: but how you got to this point in your life. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think if if anyone had the opportunity, um, I

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Speaker 1: think we all of the hunters would would be in

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Speaker 1: this room seeking out over and they probably have a

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Speaker 1: room just like it if they had that that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: And and uh, you and I are talking about um

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Speaker 1: earlier that my philosophy in life is to get off

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Speaker 1: the couch. You cannot you can't do all this if

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Speaker 1: you're sitting on the couch. And but the d n

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Speaker 1: A that we share with these ancient hunters is what

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Speaker 1: drives us, and everyone shares it, whether you know it

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Speaker 1: comes out more so, and others is evident, it certainly does.

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Speaker 1: But I can't imagine just you know, seeing where these

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Speaker 1: people lived and seeing and picking up an era head,

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Speaker 1: not just being completely intrigued with what went on five

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago in this area and what was each

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Speaker 1: specific style of point made for. You know, some of

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Speaker 1: these points are seven inches long and some of them

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Speaker 1: are seven millimeters long. Yeah, it's it's unbelievable, the variances

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Speaker 1: and in all the heads that you have here, in

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Speaker 1: all the artifacts, but just the variances in the people,

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Speaker 1: in the way they lived, by by generation hunter, you know,

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Speaker 1: by type of people a boy, where they lived. It's

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Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. I mean, there's you've got arrowheads here that

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Speaker 1: are the size of quarters, and then you've got points

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Speaker 1: here that are as long as you know, for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better term, like the snickers bar, as long

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Speaker 1: as one of those six inches long. And so every

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Speaker 1: one of these pieces I think is an answer to

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Speaker 1: a question, or at least some evidence that will help

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Speaker 1: you answer a question that we all should have was

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Speaker 1: just how does this? How did this happen? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's I think maybe fool hardy or it's some fool's

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Speaker 1: errand to try to compare our modern hunting to this

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Speaker 1: in a direct way. It's so far removed. Uh, these

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Speaker 1: ancient hunters are so far removed from us, but they

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Speaker 1: have so much to teach us that, um, yeah, we could.

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Speaker 1: We could talk about this all day. But take me

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Speaker 1: through how you came to be on this land, your

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Speaker 1: family's history, and then we'll start talking about specific some

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Speaker 1: of these really interesting pieces. So when we when I

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Speaker 1: was about ten, we moved out because our our little

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Speaker 1: farm out and uh brown Drock, Texas, which is north

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Speaker 1: of Austin, uh town, kind of got a little close.

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Speaker 1: So we decided to move further out. And we found

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Speaker 1: this area out southwest of Austin in the hill country,

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Speaker 1: dripping springs area. Um, we're able to it was so

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Speaker 1: far out back then it just big, you know, a

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Speaker 1: bunch of cedar. And so we're able to get this

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Speaker 1: ranch and and if over the last thirty years have

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Speaker 1: been improving it, removing cedar, developing the springs, and and

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Speaker 1: as we've been doing so. Um, it wasn't long after

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Speaker 1: I was about eleven years old when we found our

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Speaker 1: first true mound, is what we call it it's an

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Speaker 1: Indian camp and started finding points and have been just

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Speaker 1: completely uh taken by the thought and the the chase

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Speaker 1: and the what's next, what's behind the next rock? And um,

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Speaker 1: what am I going to find next? And what were

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Speaker 1: these in the is doing and the whole deal and

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Speaker 1: so um. The ranch is about seven hundred acres and

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Speaker 1: we have almost a mile of Barton Creek running through.

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Speaker 1: We have both sides of Barton and then um every

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Speaker 1: several hundred yards there's a feeder creek that's spring fed.

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Speaker 1: So it's just the perfect environment to camp nowaday too

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Speaker 1: and back then for these Indians to survive. The great

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Speaker 1: water um, and that's the key, is the water source.

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Speaker 1: And you know we're we're on the near the Edwards

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Speaker 1: Plateau and in the the bison were roaming through here,

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Speaker 1: probably not as much as a little south of us

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Speaker 1: because it's a little more hilly, but they had lots

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Speaker 1: of deer, They had plenty to eat. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: every site that we find is just a beautiful camp

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Speaker 1: site that we'd want to hang out in. No great

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Speaker 1: cover and just beautiful, big old trees and um. So

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Speaker 1: the lys Um had this place for you know, thirty

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Speaker 1: years or so. And and that's what we do. We hunt,

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Speaker 1: we fish, and we look for airheads. And we found

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Speaker 1: a lot of thousands. I would saying how many totally

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Speaker 1: you think you found your lifetime. I upwards of five thousand.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine on this property UM between here and

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Speaker 1: and uh within five miles of here. I get people

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Speaker 1: that will call mean and have sites that you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll look at. But have you ever took stock at

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Speaker 1: your entire collection of the family's collection is to how

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Speaker 1: big it is or or where it ranks, and the

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Speaker 1: you know, list of biggest airhead collections are most established.

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Speaker 1: There's there's a huge subcultures. Now that we've gotten into it,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten to know some of some of the people

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Speaker 1: that have the biggest collections of perishables, cave finds, um

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Speaker 1: in the nation, and we've been we've we've my family

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Speaker 1: and I've been able to see their private collections, which

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Speaker 1: the Smithsonian wants lots of the pieces that they have,

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Speaker 1: and frankly most of the private collections have the best stuff. UM.

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Speaker 1: But you know, as far as an amateur, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've probably certainly you have one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: collections in this area. But just because there's it's hard

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Speaker 1: work finding these and uh, there's not many people that

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Speaker 1: will get off the couch get it done off the couch. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you started hunting and finding air heads around

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Speaker 1: the same time when you were a kid. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was all just what you did. Yeah, that's what

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Speaker 1: we're We my brothers two years old or nine, and

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Speaker 1: we would be um, you know, like most kids. Then

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Speaker 1: nowadays it's a different story. But we would be gone,

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Speaker 1: son up would either be riding horses or we'd be

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Speaker 1: digging airheads, and Dad would pretty much know where to

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Speaker 1: find us. He'd either we'd be down there digging or

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Speaker 1: if the horses were gone, he'd see us at dark,

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Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, so that's lots of time spent.

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Speaker 1: And it's great, great family stuff. I mean, my brother

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Speaker 1: and I have great memories digging and and and now

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Speaker 1: my my little girls and my wife love it. The

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Speaker 1: girls are making mudpies and and my wife is is

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Speaker 1: coming through the dirt with me. And yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a neat deal. Yeah. No, it's amazing, um to

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Speaker 1: see the work you put into it. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: easy to come into a room like this and and

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Speaker 1: kind of feel the artistry of it, your own artistry

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Speaker 1: and creating the presentation of the stuff, but the artistry

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Speaker 1: of the folks that made this so many generations to go.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to see that. But then we go out

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Speaker 1: to your dig site, to your mound, and you see

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Speaker 1: all the work you put in in the Texas summertime.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah that's hot, man, it is hot. And

241
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Speaker 1: we come back just drenched. But each each point is

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Speaker 1: just you ever sat down and had a whiskey in

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Speaker 1: this room thought why? Why? Really? Why? You know, you

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Speaker 1: know why? It's fun, it's you know, we can talk

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Speaker 1: about why, but why why? The passion is it gets

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Speaker 1: pretty deep in here, uh, us coming and sitting here

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Speaker 1: with with those that are as passionate as you are

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Speaker 1: about honey. And that's when it gets neat is when uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we start thinking about, um, yeah, why

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Speaker 1: why we're why are we here? Um? You know, in

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Speaker 1: a sense, we're here to serve the Lord, that's one reason.

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Speaker 1: But how but why did he? Why do we have cars?

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Speaker 1: And these guys we're banging out flint, I mean, um,

254
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Speaker 1: they were hard workers and and um, I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: living like they did, but I think that they probably

256
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Speaker 1: had it easier and we do. But why why were

257
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Speaker 1: they here? And why so many points? Why did they

258
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Speaker 1: lay this perfect point down that has not a scratch

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Speaker 1: on it? Yeah? Yeah, I mean each one of these.

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Speaker 1: We're both holding point arrowheads now, and I wanted to

261
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Speaker 1: because you could just look at this and each little

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Speaker 1: piece of it, each detail tells something about someone now somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and if you let it speak to you, I'm sure

264
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Speaker 1: it does. And so I imagine I knew the answer

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Speaker 1: to that question. But for for folks listening to think

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Speaker 1: about um while you're out there on a Sunday afternoon

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Speaker 1: sweating your balls off, thinking what does it mean at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day? Yeah? What? What? What gives

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Speaker 1: me the drive to go the I mean it's not

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Speaker 1: gold these things. Someone may come in and offer me of,

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Speaker 1: you know, hefty chunk of change, but it wouldn't It

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Speaker 1: would be essentially getting paid fifty cents an hour for

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Speaker 1: all the hours I put into it. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: they're priceless to me, but they're not really worth all

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Speaker 1: that much about your Your dad does he still? Does?

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Speaker 1: He get after it? Pretty good? Dad? Loves, loves to

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Speaker 1: see it and talk about it and sit in here

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Speaker 1: and and uh and have a t or something, um,

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Speaker 1: and and look at it. And he feels that the

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Speaker 1: gravity of it, and he can feel the the culture,

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Speaker 1: but he's he rather not go dig and the heat.

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Speaker 1: He never has really cared much too. I don't think

283
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Speaker 1: he's ever found a narrow head. But it's cool because

284
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Speaker 1: he gets to live that through us. So essentially he

285
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Speaker 1: didn't have to. He can he can have a cold

286
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Speaker 1: beer and not sweat and still get the same enjoyment

287
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Speaker 1: out of it. That's smart. Yeah, that's smart. Um, So

288
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Speaker 1: we kind of you know, we know what you're doing here,

289
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Speaker 1: and then can we'll just talk more about why. Um?

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Speaker 1: But how I mean, when you're leving you find an arrowhead, Yeah,

291
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Speaker 1: it's cool, right, pick it up. That's a cool arrowhead.

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Speaker 1: Take me through how you have gotten to the point

293
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Speaker 1: where you're out there with a giant sifter and a

294
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Speaker 1: cat and you're digging. You know, how big was the

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Speaker 1: sight we were just at that was probably a hundred

296
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Speaker 1: yards by sixty yards? And how deeply you dig when

297
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Speaker 1: you dig, well, we'll get through about five ft average,

298
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Speaker 1: I'd say, so that's a lot. Take me through how

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Speaker 1: you get you know, obviously your passion will lead you

300
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Speaker 1: to that this extreme way that you do it. But

301
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Speaker 1: so when I was a kid finding them and digging

302
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Speaker 1: the excitement of really I would I was like, you know,

303
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Speaker 1: I really would like to know who made this and

304
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Speaker 1: and all, But really it's like how many can I get?

305
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna come home with ten and see what kind

306
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,760
Speaker 1: of different shapes. I knew nothing about the cultures. The

307
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Speaker 1: shape of the base kind of tells you what culture

308
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Speaker 1: it is, how old the point is, like the Clovis

309
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Speaker 1: has the flute and it we don't have any Clovis

310
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Speaker 1: on the ranch, but I'm sure they're here, but we

311
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 1: hadn't found him. But then, you know, as I got older,

312
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Speaker 1: started reading more about it, going to the shows, and

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Speaker 1: learning about how they cooked and uh what they ate,

314
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Speaker 1: how they actually hafted or put the point onto the

315
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Speaker 1: to the stick and the the shaft and the ladle

316
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 1: versus the bow and arrow, and really getting into big

317
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: and deep and reading and and getting with the big

318
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 1: wigs in the in the the culture of this artifact,

319
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Speaker 1: hunting and learning so much more about it, and and

320
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Speaker 1: the more I know now the more I want to

321
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Speaker 1: get out in the field and see the evidence of this.

322
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Speaker 1: And so we're talking about how they cooked. And in

323
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Speaker 1: this country, they they would cook a lot like like

324
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Speaker 1: the Mexicans cook caprito. They do a big hole, build

325
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Speaker 1: a big fire, coals on it, put uh, put in

326
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Speaker 1: big stones, and then cover it with grass acorns than grass,

327
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Speaker 1: and then cover that with dirt and let it cook

328
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Speaker 1: for up to seventy two hours. And they'd come out

329
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 1: and the rocks would be broken up and what's called

330
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Speaker 1: midden and over the over the different cook cycles that

331
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Speaker 1: would just build a big mound of broken rock. And

332
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Speaker 1: so the sites are a lot easier to find in

333
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Speaker 1: this country than there are North Texas or than they

334
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: are and in Arizona or Colorado or east and so

335
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: it's not it's hard to find the sites. And so

336
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: um once for once we find the site, then we

337
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 1: can kind of we know where most of the points

338
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: are and and uh we can kind of go to

339
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,479
Speaker 1: them and see what they've been eating. Lots of bison bones,

340
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: lots of tune, fox, kyote, jaws, rabbits, all kinds of

341
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: neat stuff. It's unbelievable, is there, you know? As you

342
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 1: go through your collections, and as you started to gather

343
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: more things and wanted to travel, was there I want

344
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Speaker 1: to just continue to stay here and find out more

345
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: about these people or go out into other parts of

346
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: the country and you know, connect the dots to the

347
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 1: ancient hunters that were here, or the ancient hunters that

348
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: might have been into Mexico or Arizona or wherever. I'm

349
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: always looking to expand, uh my knowledge based on the

350
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 1: different cultures we you know, we we can call them

351
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: tribes in the in the historic sense, uh, and then

352
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: the cultures go back beyond the prehistoric. UM. But every

353
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: time I go hunting, I take one of these airheads

354
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 1: with me, UH and I go. I give a lot

355
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: of places hunting, and I talked to the guides and

356
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: all of them were It seems there's some sort of

357
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: connection that they're artifact hunters and the culture out in

358
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: New Mexico, UM, the pottery makers, the members culture is

359
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: is very intriguing to me. And for these guys to

360
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: be making these beautiful pots of thousand years ago, it's

361
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 1: just amazing. And UM, the little ear rings that we've

362
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: the shell ear rings that that I've found, UM, and

363
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: some of their ruins while we're ill counting in the

364
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: big huge pottery shards that just tell a story of

365
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: its own. These guys were trading shells and all from

366
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: from the the West coast, um and some caves that

367
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 1: I've been in and in West Texas finding some amazing

368
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: stuff braided rope and yeah, sandals, sandals, thousand year old

369
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: sandals that we're we're finding in pack rat nsts and um.

370
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: These they're all tied. I mean, these these cultures, that's

371
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: the Castile culture. They're out of the caves in West

372
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: Texas there about eleven years old. These guys are communicating

373
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Speaker 1: and trading and with the Indians in our country, I

374
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: would certainly imagine, and we do see proof of that.

375
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 1: But they're trading um shell conch shells from the Texas

376
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: coast all the way up here. But the shells that

377
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: we see traded from California coast all the way here

378
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: to central Texas. It's just amazing how that makes it

379
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: the network. So they're all tied. Yeah, I tell you

380
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: so much. I mean, I'm sure it all comes back

381
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: to this piece of ground for you though, just because

382
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: you spent so much time digging in here um. And

383
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: then in the sight that we went to today, it

384
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: was interesting me how you identified where the airheads might

385
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: be or where though artifacts might be. So take people

386
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: through how you walk on a barren piece of ground

387
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: and the creek and on your ranch in Texas, and

388
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: how you come to know that there's relics or artifacts there,

389
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: and then once you've determined that in your mind, how

390
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: you find them and then continue to find them and um,

391
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: how you sift through to find the ones you want,

392
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: and what that process looks like. So that I get

393
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: this question a lot is well, I don't even know,

394
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: can you. I've got this place on my land and

395
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: I just want to know if there's an air head

396
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: out there. And really what it comes down to is

397
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: to find a spring, a healthy spring. That the best

398
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: time to find a really healthy spring is in the

399
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: during a drought, and if that's still running, then you

400
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: can almost picture of the Indians being there. And so

401
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: we'll find a spring first in from the spring, we'll

402
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: just we'll just make a big walk, you know, We'll

403
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: just walk around and we'll look for those pieces of

404
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: broken midden rock and that's the evidence of them having

405
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: cook sites there and broken flint, and if you can

406
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: find a little piece of that, then we'll dig some

407
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: test holes. And if the test holes bring up more

408
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: mid and rock and more pieces of flint, then at

409
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: that point we know that we're on a site. And

410
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: then we'll clear it and get all the seater off,

411
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: because the seater in this country is everywhere. And then

412
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: once we uh, once we know that that's where we're

413
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: gonna dig, then we have come a long way. I

414
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: used to just hand dig everything, and now we have

415
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: a table that has a motor on it and it's

416
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: offset drive shaft that um we engineered to help Jimmy

417
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: Love join my my digging buddy, UM, and we'll take

418
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: we'll go around the midden where the where where they

419
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: would probably be been living that the midden is more

420
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: where they're cooking. There's gonna be a lot of points

421
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: in there, but the good stuff that's not broken is

422
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 1: gonna be out where they're actually living and and working. Generally,

423
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: it will be on the on the southeast side because

424
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: the prevailing winds or southwest, so they're gonna be out

425
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: of the smoke. And we'll start there and we'll just trench.

426
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: We'll dig a big trench and then we'll find the

427
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: habitation layer and and uh, when we're looking at it earlier,

428
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: the snails would come in and get the organic matter

429
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: after the Indians had left. And so there's generally a

430
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: line of occupation, is what we call it. And once

431
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: once we find that, we'll go below that and another

432
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: six inches so we're not missing anything, and we'll dig

433
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: that whole area one bucket at a time with a bobcat.

434
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: Put it on the table. It sifts well, sift all

435
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: the midden rock and in all out, and then uh,

436
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: we'll find the points from there, and then we'll put

437
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: them in a bucket and at the end of the

438
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 1: day we'll put them out on the back of the

439
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: tailgate of the chuck and have a cold beer and

440
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: and talk about every time we'll talk about what what

441
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: were these Indians doing? And Wow, we're actually getting to

442
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: do this, the first people that have touched this in

443
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: five thousand years, and and we'll have that discussion over

444
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: a cold beer. And yeah, we'll sort the points out.

445
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: The broken ones will go in a box, and the

446
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: the whole pretty ones will be displayed for everyone to see.

447
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: Do you imagine that one thing that struck me. Yeah,

448
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: you've got a nice ranch here. Did you imagine that

449
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: your place is much different than every other ranch in

450
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: this part of the country with open ground that you've

451
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: just over the time knowing what to look for and

452
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: become passionate, and that's why you found the amount of

453
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: heads you have or is you know, you said there's

454
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: there's water that runs through your place, for sure, but uh,

455
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: you imagine that there's so many of these sites, so

456
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: much of this information that we could clean and and

457
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 1: probably should clean in some way that just goes, uh

458
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: goes unfound because there's no one to see it. Absolutely well.

459
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: Even there's so many of these sites about every six

460
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: hundred yards in this country down Onion Creek or Barton Creek,

461
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: and these are some of the bigger creeks in the region.

462
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: The Barton Creek runs all the way down into Austin.

463
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: But there's so many of these sites, uh that if

464
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: you have a property with a spring on it, you

465
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: have a you do have a campsite on it. But

466
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,239
Speaker 1: a lot of these camps that I'm digging, I've known

467
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: about for thirty years and I'm just coming up. I'm

468
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 1: talking to the land owners and I'm showing them my

469
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: Indian room. I bring him out to the ranch and

470
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: they they see what's there, and then they still won't

471
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: dog it. And then and I'll ask maybe both I'll

472
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: dig it with them, and then I'll give them fifty

473
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: the points. So lots of people have the middens or

474
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: the camps on their place, but it's a matter of

475
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: want to and drive. They get out there and dig

476
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: for an hour and they're and it's hot, and it's

477
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: a ton of work, and there over it and I

478
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: can't get over it. Um, it's like Steve Ronnella or

479
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: Ben O'Brien climbing him. It's like the big one. The

480
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: big animal is not killed right off the road. The

481
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: big ones killed back in there where no one else

482
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: wants to go. And then when when when you get

483
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: further back there, and it's the last day, and if

484
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: if you just have enough energy to get over one

485
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: more mountain range or one more mountain, that's where the

486
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: big one is. And it's the last day, in the

487
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: last hour and the last light. And I guarantee you

488
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: that Ben O'Brien and Steve ronell are up there with

489
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: their glasses until last light and that's what it's like

490
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's what strikes me

491
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: about all people that you know, you don't sit in

492
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: a room like this without having so ridiculous passion for

493
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: the thing, right, Um, you just don't, and you don't

494
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: come to the point you've come to as an amateur archaeologist.

495
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: I love that term. Um. Yeah, I'm I think I'm

496
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: like an amateur whiskey taster. I got a certificate one time. Um.

497
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: But you don't get to that point without having that drive,

498
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: without wanting to know that And you were talking about

499
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. There's in in some circles

500
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: there's thought that digging this could be controversial because you

501
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: may disturb some kind of evidence that could be found,

502
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: or talk about that a little bit. You know. I

503
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: know that's probably sense of subject for it, but I

504
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: think it's important for people to hear you know, your

505
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: passion is coming through this stuff and the respect for

506
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: these artifacts and the fact that they're seen by many

507
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: people that come in your home. Um. I think that's

508
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: important for people to know because I know there are

509
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: probably something that would ask why don't you just leave

510
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: him in the ground? Right, And it's so it's a

511
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: non renewable resource essentially, and the archae bologists are amazing.

512
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to do as a kid, you know,

513
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: when I was ten or eleven, but um, you know,

514
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: my path went a different direction. But it is extremely

515
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: important to to know what went on and and how

516
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: it went on. But they, the archaeologist in this region

517
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: have studied it so extensively that these camps are very

518
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: common and they they don't want, you know, they don't

519
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 1: have any more used to come find out what they

520
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: already know. Lots of their stuff gets displayed appropriately, which

521
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: is awesome and um, but there's tons of it that

522
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: they're still studying in that the general public will never

523
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: see ever and a lot of these folks won't even

524
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: make it to a museum to see it. So the

525
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: amount of people that have been in this room or

526
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: been to the ranch and and if looked and talked

527
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: about this stuff would never have done it without this

528
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: stuff coming up out of the ground and by me

529
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: getting it out. And um, it's I feel it's so

530
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: important for us to dig this stuff up and to

531
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: share with the world, um, like we're doing now. I've

532
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 1: never heard a podcast on air heads either. I'm sure

533
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: they're out there, maybe not. Maybe we're breaking ground. I'm

534
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: glad if that's the case. But you know, but you

535
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: know they're getting displayed, we're talking about it. We're sharing

536
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: this part of our history, um with with the world.

537
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: Whereas uh, you know, they may again the archaeologists do

538
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: it tremendously great job about you know, I'm putting the

539
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: word out and showing what's going on in museums and all.

540
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: But but it's hard to get to Yeah, you couldn't

541
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: get to this. I mean the amount of things that

542
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: you have here and some of the great funds you have, UM.

543
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: And that brings that's a good segue. It brings us

544
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: to you know, what you have and what you've learned,

545
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: because there's a lot that you've learned. Um. We got

546
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: a dog visitor here bringing us a ball through. UM,

547
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: what you have and what you've learned, because you've learned

548
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: a lot about these ancient cultures you love, learned a

549
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: lot about these periods and time that are important for

550
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: us all to know about. So the biggest part of

551
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: me wanting to sit out with you was to to

552
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: harvest and get out of you all the things that

553
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: you've learned about not only how to find these things

554
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: and why you might do it, but the people. You know,

555
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: you're sitting and having that beer. That's a good visual

556
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: for everybody looking at these heads and in in your

557
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: own mind, with your own knowledge, trying to understand what

558
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: this connects to, because we all have that connection. So

559
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: take me through the types of people that lived here,

560
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: um how far back you know, let's probably start with

561
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: the the oldest civilizations that lived here that you're a

562
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: are of, and then take me back through kind of

563
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: how how that all steps up and what you've learned

564
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: that could be. So there's there's evidence of certainly evidence

565
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: in this area of the Clovis culture, which was thought

566
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: to be the oldest culture in North America. Um, so

567
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: whether they came across the land bridge or they came

568
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: from from Europe bouncing down through across the ice cap

569
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: too to the east coast. There is a huge area

570
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: on the east coast with tons of of Clovis camps,

571
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: and so some archaeologists I think that they came across

572
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: in in boats to the east coast, and then that's

573
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: why there's so many camps over there. And then from

574
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: there they followed the waterways to west and the other

575
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: the other ones say that they came across the baring

576
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: Land Bridge, came down and followed the rivers and then

577
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: they ended up on the east coast and they and

578
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: go anywhere else, and that's why there's so many camps there.

579
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: But from there um the Clovis culture died out. Okay,

580
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: that the Paleo Indians died out, the Fulsome and all

581
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: that group, and then they repopulated. And there's evidence in

582
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: in this area that after the repopulation in the transitional

583
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: Paleo and all about eight thousand years, they lived here

584
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 1: all the way up until the Comanches. So the culture

585
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: that we're finding the most of the prehistoric about six

586
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: thousand years until um, all the way up through the

587
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: Comanche points true eraheads. So they were using what we

588
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: call dart points. They were hafted to a long shaft

589
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: and uh hurled with an at ladle and described that

590
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: lattle for those are not aware, So it's like the

591
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: chuck it deal that you throw to your dog. So

592
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: that these Indians made that, they didn't make the billions

593
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: of dollars that this chuck it guy is right? Why

594
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: did not think of that, But so it's a long shaft.

595
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: There at the end, the flint point is on a

596
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 1: stick about six inches long that goes into the shaft.

597
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: And then the stick that laddel is about a foot long,

598
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: and it has a little hook on the end and

599
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: and it's and that you use it to hurl to

600
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: get more kinetic energy. When the shaft hits the animal,

601
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: this the point stays in the animal. The big shaft

602
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: comes out, and they run grab their shaft, pick up

603
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: another tip and put it in and and just follow

604
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: and track and um. They can be accurate that the

605
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: guys that do it now for fun, can they can

606
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: hit targets at a hundred yards with these things. So

607
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: they figured these hunters that did it every day growing

608
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: up their whole lives, they needed to be good at

609
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: it could be accurate to hunters. You know, how they

610
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: would fashion the shaft or what. Yeah, they would there,

611
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, they'd use a lot of the cane along

612
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: the rivers and creeks, and to straighten them, they'd heat

613
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: him in the fire and then they just bend it

614
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: and then as it cooled they would stay in that shape.

615
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: And then from there they would use asphaltum two connect

616
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: the the flint tip and asphalt them is it's either

617
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: they could use tree sap or um. You can what

618
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: I think of as faltim is when you're on the

619
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: beach and there's those big tar balls that come up,

620
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: and that's natural. I'm sure there's more of it since

621
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: we've been digging or drilling, but they'll use that heat

622
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: it up and then fasten that and there's that cools

623
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: that becomes hard and so that there's no getting it

624
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: off at that point. So if they broke the tip

625
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: of their ahead, they could re sharpen the the arrowhead

626
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: while it's still on that stick, and we we see

627
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: evidence of that and all of these points resharpening UM.

628
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: But oftentimes if that stick broke, then that that points

629
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: useless at that point because they couldn't. They couldn't they

630
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: can repair it. So lots of these points is laying around.

631
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of that had to do with it.

632
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: Why would they just leave these perfect points in camp? Yeah,

633
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: that's what we were talking about it earlier. It's probably

634
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: another rabbit hole. Why why are so many of them

635
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: left behind? Um in the way that they are And

636
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's lots of reasons. Yeah, and they're perfect. Yeah. Weight.

637
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: I think we talked about one of them. The Fulsome

638
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: people's were some of the most nomadic Paleo folks and

639
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: and because of that there their points were super thin.

640
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: And and they think it's just because of weight. But

641
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: back to where we were going with that is so

642
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: it started of the Paleo Indians. Right here, there's Paleo

643
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: sites all through North America. Paleo, the Clovis, the Fulsome,

644
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: angast Era, they were those all intermingled civilizations or did

645
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: they predate each other? They were, they came. I don't

646
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: think that they were overlapped very much. They were they

647
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, there would be a culture here and and

648
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: then there'd be some overlap and there would be someone

649
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: with a better technique, and they transitioned into that technique

650
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: of of napping, of flint napping um. Which gets us

651
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: to the from the at laddle to the bow and arrow. Yeah,

652
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: when did that describe that transition as you know it

653
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: in this country at least, so they're thinking roughly thirtred

654
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: years ago. It is all with the Yes, So the

655
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: majority of the history of of our world is at

656
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: Laddle is guys throwing uh big long um shafts with

657
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: an out ladle. Yeah, if you google at laddle, you

658
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 1: can get many, many videos of modern guys. Like you said,

659
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: it's pretty impressive to watch. I mean, they're they're killing

660
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: mammoths with these things, which is just amazing to see. Um.

661
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: But then once the bow and arrow took over, there

662
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: was an overlap I'm sure, um of when to use

663
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: an out lad and when to use a bone arrow.

664
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: But um, and some of the arrows I have in

665
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: the Indian room here are really short. They have trade

666
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: points on them. This is the horse culture. So then

667
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: we we start we transition from the at laddle to

668
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: the bow and arrow about thirteen dred years ago, and

669
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: then we get into the horse culture, which didn't The

670
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: horse culture is very young. It's only a couple hundred

671
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: not even that long. When the when the Spanish came in,

672
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: there were horses and mustangs here well before the Indians

673
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: figured out how to use them. So some of the

674
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: tribes didn't have horses more longer than eighty years before

675
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: we before we came in and you know, wrecked their

676
00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: their world. But and I'm very sympathetic to that, uh,

677
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: you know that it just is what it is. Progress

678
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: is progress and and uh the Indians did it to themselves,

679
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: and uh, we don't want to rabbit hold down that.

680
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: But from the bow and arrows pre horse culture, which

681
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: was a big long thing, you know, to the horse culture,

682
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: these arrows aren't but about two and a half feet long. Yeah,

683
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: and we're looking at it a set of eight or

684
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: so arrows from that that time frame, and described you

685
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: know how that sets up. Because this, of all things

686
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: you have hanging here, I believe it. It was the

687
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: most interesting to me how not only the feathers they used,

688
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 1: how they attached to fix the feathers to the shaft,

689
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: how they fixed the shaft to the point, what the

690
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: point looks like, and why it looks like it does.

691
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: So the French we're making trade points. The arrows that

692
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: we're looking at now have trade metal trade points. And

693
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: there the style. Um, I have a couple of arros

694
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: there from the Sioux culture that are the style of

695
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: a little big horn. Doesn't mean that these were used

696
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 1: a little big horn, but they were certainly obtained from

697
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: the Indians that fought in and around a little big

698
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: horn right at the same time. But that's you know,

699
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies back in the sun. The French trappers, they

700
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: the French would make these trade points before they'd even

701
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: come over here, and they'd send them with their trappers

702
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: and their their fur companies and they'd trade these point

703
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: the Indians, which were you know, that a lot lighter.

704
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: They were more accurate there as deadly, and they wouldn't

705
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: have to put the time in to make these. Every

706
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: time you throw one of these a break if if

707
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: it hit a rocket break, and that's a tremendous amount

708
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: of time that they put into that. Well, these points

709
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: they might bend or they just banging out and straighten

710
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: it out and go on. So um, the points here

711
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: we see are about three inches long and very sharp,

712
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: uh and wicked looking. I mean you walk in the

713
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: room and it you can see these on a on

714
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: the Indians back. Oh yeah, the tip I mean the

715
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: very tip of a knife almost. Yeah, you know, that's

716
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: probably about what four inches long, would you say? And

717
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: so the shaft, the shafts of these arrows all have

718
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: different designs in them, and and they think that that

719
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: they belonged to the guy who made the shaft ay

720
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: or is it to let the blood out when it

721
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: when it hits sticks in then and while it's hard

722
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: to say, but they have grooves in the shaft. Every

723
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: one of these authentic arrows do. UM. If you guys

724
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: are at the museums and you see these authentic arrows,

725
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: you look for that. But then the feather part is

726
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: about eight inches. Um. Different cultures use three feathers. Um.

727
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: Some cultures just used to um. Most of them have

728
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: three feathers. But the Navajo. I've got three arrows up

729
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: there from the Navajo culture and they're used buzzard m feathers.

730
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: They use buzzard feather there. So UM, they're pretty easy

731
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: to distinguish which tribe by the style. The two would

732
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: you use turkey and eagle, we don't have it. It's

733
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: illegal to have it, any type of eagle feathers. So

734
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: there's no eagle feathers. Um. All the museums and and

735
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: have the eagle stuff. You can't even trade them. Yeah.

736
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: Now it's it's that's one of the more interesting When

737
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: you look at these arrows, you think of our modern

738
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: days in the length and you look at these errors.

739
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: You must think on horseback. You know, once these horse

740
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: cultures became prevalent. They had what do you say, sixty

741
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: pound draw weights up to they're shooting a foot and

742
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: a half long arrow tip to tip um as. I'm

743
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: just guessing at that obviously, but you know, talk about

744
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: that the you know much about the physics of that,

745
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: of how they designed these bows and arrows and what

746
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: they became at this in these early stages. Well that

747
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: they evolved um from the utility of of being on

748
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: the horse shooting under the neck. These guys were warriors.

749
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: The the arraheads that were finding on the ranch they

750
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: were they weren't and there's evidence, I mean, when the

751
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: archaeologists find the skeleton, skeletal remains, there's no evidence of warfare.

752
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: They're just weren't enough of them. They needed each other.

753
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: The Indians that were talking about the horse culture were

754
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: major warriors. There were so many of them at this

755
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 1: point in history. And to shoot under a horse's neck,

756
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: to hide and to carry a shield and shoot while

757
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: you're running that the bows and the there has had

758
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: to be super short, and you know, they could get

759
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: right up next to bison. They just they just did.

760
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: They'd run in. They think that it average took it

761
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: about four arrows for every bison, they'd come in and

762
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: shoot behind. They'd run in behind and shoot them from

763
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: the flank up through deliver and maybe catch along. And

764
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: then they had the luxury of tracking. They just pull

765
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: up and and uh, you know, track them, and so

766
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: they didn't have to be accurate up to eighty plush hard.

767
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: But if we go back to you know, the archaic

768
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: period and some of these back to away from times

769
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: when when bows became prevalent, what game were they hunting,

770
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: What were there main sources of food, and what were

771
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: the options maybe animals that were here that they were

772
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: unable to hunt um or on you know, on more unsuccessful,

773
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: because I'm sure there were you know, deer and other

774
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: species that were important. Yeah, lots, So we find lots

775
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: of of bones of turkeys, lots of turkey legs. We're

776
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: looking down at a pot from the Okay, yeah, palladeric

777
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: can and that came out of there back in the sixties.

778
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: But lots of turkeys, um armor delos, find a lot

779
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: of armor dealer shells on the bones in them, Um coons, fox, coyoats, um,

780
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: lots of deer and uh, a lot of buffalo. We

781
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: find lots of buffalo teeth and big huge buffalo femers.

782
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: That's some of the more amazing stuff you're showing me too,

783
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: and not this I geek out about it. Almost everything

784
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: you've shown me thus far with buffalo teeth for whatever,

785
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: ancient buffalo teeth. It's so awesome when when that rolls out,

786
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: it's so cool. It's you know, because we think the

787
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: deer and stuff around here, and we just can't picture

788
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: bison here. And you know, if you can imagine this

789
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: country is right now, there's so it's so wooded. Back

790
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 1: then it was there were very few trees and mainly

791
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: around the springs and the creeks and all because the

792
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: natural fires and the bison herds which come through here.

793
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: And so to to to here that yeah, there used

794
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: to be bison here in the Indians, we'll actually digging

795
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: them and finding the evidence that, yeah, they were cutting

796
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: up bison right here. We'll find parts of the camp

797
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: that that they would probably do be the butchery that bison.

798
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: We find lots of big knives and that's where the

799
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: big bison bones are. The knives I say big, anywhere

800
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: from five to seven inches long. Do you find an

801
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: evidence of how they might have butchered a bison with

802
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: these tools. Yeah, we we see in some of these

803
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: big bones there's chopped marks on them. And then uh,

804
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: like we're there's some of these big chopper rocks. I mean,

805
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: imagine just a big, huge piece of flint that's that's

806
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: napped on one edge so it's very finely worked, and

807
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: then the back end is that explain what napped is

808
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: just kind of so for napping is when they've actually

809
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: take a blank piece of flint and using the hammerstone,

810
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: they chip off the flint and on each side they'll

811
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: turn it back over and chip it make it towards

812
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: sharp and then once it once it has a pretty

813
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: good shape to it, then they that's called percussion flaking.

814
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: Then they'd come back in and do what's called pressure flaking,

815
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: where they're take an antler tip generally and just hold

816
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure to certain angling that pops off

817
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: little pieces of flint where you can get a piece

818
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: that's as sharp as any knife. So there's evidence of

819
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 1: them of them, uh you know, butchering bison right there,

820
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: dear and bison. It's amazing teeth, big old bison jaws

821
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: coming out in this country. I mean we are sitting here,

822
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: what half an hour from downtown Austin, and you found

823
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: evidence of thousands and thousands of year olds hunters that

824
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: are butchering bison. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah, so every

825
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: every everything about that. When I have a chance to

826
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: go down to to dig with my family or by

827
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: myself or whatever, it's like, what are we gonna find today? Yeah?

828
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: A piece of al Right. It would be hard to

829
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: describe what you're really finding, because you could say the

830
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: prevailing term might be like, hey man, you find in

831
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: pieces of history. I don't know if it's that it's

832
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,479
Speaker 1: more or less you're finding evidence of who we are

833
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 1: or evidence. Every little pieces is just another puzzle piece

834
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: of the puzzle. It's you know, I mean, you've killed

835
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: deer on this ranch, and you've butchered deer yet hundreds

836
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: of yards from where ancient hunter, and ancient is the

837
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: term when we're talking. We're looking at a book where

838
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: one of your blaze was featured as the archaic period,

839
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: archaic blade from two thousand BC found here, correct, right

840
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: here on the ranch. Uh. That's that's some gravity to me,

841
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: it's huge gravity. And it's most people are like, oh,

842
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: that's cool. I like to shape of that. That's an

843
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: arrowhead and it does not go beyond that. Yeah, and

844
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: they walk in this room and and I don't always

845
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: talked about this earlier, for that was our discussion. But

846
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: they would rather know about the furniture. It is nice furniture,

847
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: that it's old stuff. It's yeah, it's really nice. But

848
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: if there's no unless it's belonging to King Arthur, I

849
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: would be looking at these heads. And that's a that's

850
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: an interesting distinction. And more moreover, I mean, we could

851
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: talk about these cultures forever and will continue to do so.

852
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: But what what's that say about our culture? You know?

853
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: What's that say about what we value? And I think

854
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: you and I are both hunters, um, And that's probably I.

855
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: I self identify as like a family man, a lover

856
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 1: of the natural world, hunter like those are. That That's

857
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: what I would try to describe myself as if if

858
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: anyone asked, yeah, well, I'm sure you would say similar things. Well,

859
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: it's what culture do we have here? Frankly? You know,

860
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: we go hunt in Spain, or we go hunting Russia,

861
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: or or we go hunting Nepal. Um, that's culture. Yeah,

862
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: I mean we're staying in a five hundred year old

863
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 1: bed and breakfast while we're hunting Greater Cybex or we're

864
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: we're in a village and getting you know, of history

865
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: from these villagers that in in Nepal and the m

866
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: l a s Um that have been there. When wasn't

867
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: that village you all went to. Um, it's like four

868
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: generations or five generations. Yeah, many more than that, even

869
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: I think um. And Yeah, another rabbital to go down

870
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: was how the weight of that that I felt there

871
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: trying to learn. I felt like almost I could have

872
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: stayed there my entire life and not learned everything I

873
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: need to learn from those people, not only about the

874
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: history of their place, but who they were and how

875
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: they live their lives. I'm sure do you feel the

876
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: same way about holding one of these airheads? Yeah, it's

877
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: it's awesome, But and what what's cool about it is

878
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: there is culture. This is culture now our society has

879
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: I feel uh ashamed to the fact that we're losing it.

880
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 1: We don't care about it all. We care about what's

881
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: on the next iPad video game deal and and you

882
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: know me, I don't. I don't even have a Facebook

883
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: page or Instagram so I don't even know how I'm

884
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: gonna listen to this. I have this, I'll send you,

885
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: I'll drop box you five dropbox. That's another thing I

886
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: don't know. Well, you'd be the first person that on

887
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: this podcast that didn't have one of So that's really nice.

888
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: That's nice for me. But yeah, I mean it just

889
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: goes to show, like he said, what is our current

890
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: hunting culture? And we didn't come here to talk about that.

891
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: But I love doing that anyway, because culture just aired ideas.

892
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: That's what culture is. It's the definition of the damn thing.

893
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: It is a collection of shared ideas that that reverberate

894
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: through people. And this the cultures that we may be

895
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: because they're so far removed from My respect for for

896
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: what you've amassed here is immense, just because of what

897
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: it means to our own culture, but just to to

898
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: what it means our humanity. It's crazy. Thank you. It's

899
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 1: a it's so awesome to put put this deal together

900
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: and too and to have people that are passionate enough

901
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 1: about it to come and actually want to talk about it. Um.

902
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: And it's amazing to get to raise my family on

903
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: the ranch and for them to to have some semblance

904
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: of culture instead of being stuck and yeah, I mean,

905
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: you know it doesn't matter. You can live in town

906
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: and have an amazing culture and be more country than

907
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: than someone living out on the ranch. But whatever, it's

908
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: just a neat way to do it. And all there's

909
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: like I said, it's it's there's perspective in these artifacts

910
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: that are that's invaluable that I think every hunter should have. So,

911
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there are there places. I'm not gonna have

912
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 1: everybody come to your house, but are there the places

913
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: around where people can um that you feel like our

914
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: key Yeah? Yeah, you can say Smithsonian do all that,

915
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: but there are they're key places where, Man, if you're

916
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: road tripping through Texas, if you're coming through this country,

917
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: if you want to understand the ancient hunting culture, which

918
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 1: is which is key to our own you know, hunting

919
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: lives just in this area in Texas and West Texas

920
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: even well, there's one of the biggest paleo um campsites

921
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: ever known in North America, is called the Gault Site.

922
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: And uh it's north of Georgetown, Texas, and U t

923
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: um Can gives tours of the Gult Site and there

924
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: that's where they found lots of club and stuff, and

925
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 1: that's where they're talking about this. You know fifteen the

926
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand year old culture that was here before the

927
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: Clovis Clovis was thought to be here to twelve five thirteen.

928
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: But they're this Galt site is somewhere you can take

929
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: the kids um or if you don't have kids, if

930
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 1: you're passionate about it, go, I mean, just go learn

931
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: about it. It's amazing. It's a it's a one of

932
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: the places you can go. There's also guys that have

933
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: paid digs is what they call them, where you can

934
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: you can go online and find a private leone ranch

935
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: that you know, it caused twenty bucks to go out

936
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: there with a pick, and you can dig around and

937
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: find a point of your own, which if you don't own,

938
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: if you if you don't own a place or have

939
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: friends that own a place, that it's it's the it's awesome,

940
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: it's the next you know, there's people who have huge

941
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: collections that have done this. How would you if if

942
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: say I got a property and I find a beautiful

943
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: point like the one on beautiful flint point like the

944
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: way when I'm holding is this flint? Yeah, yes, sir, Yeah,

945
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: getting good stone out how I find this point and

946
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: I want to know more about how how it came

947
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: to be here and a lot of the information you're saying,

948
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: what what are ways that I could find? There's that book?

949
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's there's several books. Um yeah, out take

950
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: it off. We're gonna start reading passages from arrowhead books.

951
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: Now get get really deep, go real deal. So this

952
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,439
Speaker 1: Overstreet book is this weighs about it's the best one.

953
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: It weighs about as much as three thousand arrowheads might wig.

954
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: And then there's there's areas of the book south central

955
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: or wherever part of the United States you live. And

956
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: it's gonna show you what's your point is you you've

957
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: compare the base of it you find it will tell

958
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: you how old it is probably how much it's worth. Um.

959
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,720
Speaker 1: So this is the over the Overstreet Identification and Price

960
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: Guy to Indian Arrowheads, twelfth edition, Robert M. Over Street.

961
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: And it is sixty four pages long. So there's a

962
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: few ads in there, so we'll give it tweages long.

963
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: And it is man, it's detailed. Yeah, that's the dictionary

964
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: of what we do and it's it's a lot of

965
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: how that's the first one that I went to, yeah,

966
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: find So if we if I found this head that's

967
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: in my hand, how would I go about looking through here?

968
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: So we live in the south central area right there.

969
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: Let me see what type of point that is. That's

970
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: a bulloverdy just from so if you go to look

971
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: at Bulverdi and then it'll you compare it and uh,

972
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: it's gonna tell you. So it has a thumbnail guide

973
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: of the forms. So you're you're looking at the base

974
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: of the arrowhead hunt. The base is gonna tell you

975
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: what culture it is. Yeah, and then once you find

976
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: the culture, you flip over to it and find a deal.

977
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: But that cool, not that we need to go through

978
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: all this. At this point there it is bolvardy right,

979
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: and so this is described as a G eight hundred dollars.

980
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So the one you're holding there is it

981
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: G three or four and it's you know, it's worth

982
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: fifty cents. But to me, it's priceless to what what's

983
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: the g's that's gonna tell you the grade of the point.

984
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: So this point that's in the book, and the book

985
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about is the finest artifacts of prehistoric Texas.

986
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,479
Speaker 1: And a couple of friends of mine wrote the book,

987
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: Winston Ellison and Dwayne Rodgers. Um. What they did is

988
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: they had a panel of judges, um about ten judges

989
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: that looked at the best points that they could find,

990
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,959
Speaker 1: and then they voted on them to make the book

991
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: or not. And so that's another book you guys ought

992
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: to look for is The Finest Artifact of Prehistoric Texas

993
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: by Winston Ellison and Dwayne Rogers. So a lot of

994
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: these points. Dwayne Rodgers is the authenticator. There's people that

995
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: we'll fake these and try to sell them, and so

996
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: I know these are real because I found them. Yeah,

997
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: And if I were to sell them, someone would probably

998
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: want a paper on it, and that would be the

999
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:27,479
Speaker 1: guy Dwayne Rodgers. But of course I wouldn't sell these things. Well,

1000
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: I mean that's the specifics. That's it's it's fun for

1001
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: me just to to give people an outlet to what

1002
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: do you do if you find one? I'm sure that

1003
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 1: would be a question. But back to to what they mean,

1004
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm generally ideological, philosophical type of guy,

1005
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: and as even as a hunter, I've described this podcast

1006
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: a lot. I think more about the philosophies of why

1007
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: we do the things we do than I do the

1008
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: actual doing of them. You know, So how to find

1009
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: one of these is relevant to me. But but what

1010
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: they you know, what they end up meaning to you,

1011
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: is just as as relevant, if not more so. And

1012
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: so you have do you have a piece in here

1013
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: that you found, like your first arrowhead or your most

1014
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: what you think the most prolific one you found that

1015
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: means a lot to you, that that will point out

1016
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: the folks. This this point down there that my wife

1017
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: found when we're looking at the so most of the

1018
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: ranch we live and I grew up on, but there's

1019
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: another part of it that we bought it. We added too,

1020
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: and when we were looking to buy it, before we

1021
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: had any money, we're just walking down through the pasture.

1022
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: They're near Barton, near the creek, and right in the

1023
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: tirade was a perfect point. And to my wife found

1024
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: it and she said, yes, we're it's meant to be.

1025
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: This is us. I mean, we're gonna live here. This

1026
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: is our deal. I thought you're about to say that.

1027
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: I dropped down on one knee, dropped down. I was

1028
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: still real scared. H I don't think we're married quite yet.

1029
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: I thought you had an air head, uh an engagement

1030
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: error had Yeah, so but that one and then that

1031
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: that point that's seven and a half inches. I was

1032
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: by myself hand digging. That was before the machinery. And

1033
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: it's paper thin. Beautiful and that's the one that's in

1034
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: this in the book here, but beautiful. That's a beautiful

1035
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: piece right there. Just the tip was coming sticking out

1036
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, it's just one of these

1037
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 1: dart points and you know, six inches of it hanging

1038
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: out and I almost fell over when I pulled it out. Unbelievable.

1039
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: And so your best recollection, there's so many rabbit holes,

1040
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: so much stuff. I'm interested to know. Describe kind of

1041
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: the different points you found and how you go about

1042
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: identifying what it is and what it's used for. I mean,

1043
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: are there does each culture? Does each people have a

1044
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: different type of signifier? I mean, so they do? You

1045
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: explain some of it to me, but try to try

1046
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: to take people through everything that's here and how it's identified. Well,

1047
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: there's there points that we call drills that are long

1048
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: that that would essentially look like a drill. Yeah, so

1049
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: you have three I'll have some photos of this up

1050
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: but you have three displays here. Let's just take you

1051
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: through the far left displays. So the drill points, all

1052
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: of their base or a lot of the bases, tell

1053
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: you what type of point it is, what culture, what

1054
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: it what culture it was? How old was that culture? Um,

1055
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: that's that's what the base signifies. So it's really easy

1056
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: to tell. I know most of them in the area.

1057
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: Whenever they come off the table, I grab it. I said,

1058
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: there's a part analysis. We talked my digging buddy and

1059
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: or family, and I'd say, that's cool. There's a Bolvardi,

1060
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: or there's a Castorville or or Lang or lane Tree.

1061
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: And so the cultures that were here were the pardon

1062
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,479
Speaker 1: Alys culture and the Lane Tree culture. And they really

1063
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: they're just giving them names because they were prehistoric. Um,

1064
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: so they're they're from tiniest little things called um gravers.

1065
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: You know. It's just that have little tiny points on them,

1066
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: maybe too to make jewelry with two big knives. That

1067
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: were most of these knives. And this is good that

1068
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about this because someone sees the seven

1069
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,439
Speaker 1: a half inch knife and the first thing they say

1070
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: is spear, and they think of some Indian carrying a

1071
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: big spear and stabbing a guy. Well back then these there,

1072
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: these cultures weren't at war with each other, so they're

1073
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: cutting grass with them in the Archaeologists have studied the

1074
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: wear patterns on the edges and found that the majority

1075
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: is fiber cutting fiber. So they used a massive amount

1076
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: of grass in there to cook and to steam these acorns.

1077
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: And that's mainly what they ate is acorns and some meat.

1078
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,919
Speaker 1: But then so there's big knives and then the dart

1079
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: points that would be used on the at lattle um.

1080
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: Some of them are are small because they've been resharpened

1081
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: multiple times, and some of them would say small, how

1082
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: about how long an inch and a half or an

1083
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: inch even? Yeah, you'd be surprised how some of these,

1084
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: when you're showing dark points or even arrowheads, how small

1085
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 1: they actually are. You know, yeah, there's some of the

1086
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: some of these arrowheads. If you have a dime, you

1087
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: can fit three of them without any overlap. And they're

1088
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: killing buffalo with him. A lot of people mistake it

1089
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: is quote bird points, but these are bison killers. You know,

1090
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: Like I said, you've put a few in and you

1091
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: have the luxury of tracking them. But so from knives

1092
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: to drills, two big choppers, um too, you know, to

1093
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: do some major bone breaking, because they would use that

1094
01:04:51,520 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: marrow um two um you know, real serrated edge just

1095
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 1: so they could cut bone with. Or I imagine they've

1096
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: cut a lot of stuff. And there's also what we

1097
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: found lots of jewelry what we call gorgetts, where they

1098
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: make them from slate and they have all kinds of

1099
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: awesome designs in them. Then the holes are in set.

1100
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: They'd wear them around their neck or um, you know,

1101
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: pieces of jewelry that were sewn into to close um,

1102
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: all all sorts of things that the little round balls

1103
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: game pieces were calm there and all the mounds around here.

1104
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: They're like marble, but they're made from limestone, perfectly round

1105
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: little balls just the size of a marble. That uh,

1106
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you know we're used for game pieces.

1107
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: What does that tell you about how they live their lives?

1108
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you how do you imagine they

1109
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: gathered in a place, what that they're what did these

1110
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: ancient hunters? What do they prioritize? What do they look

1111
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: for and gathering? And then you know you said there

1112
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: are small bands of people seven eight blessed and ten people.

1113
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: That's what they think. And I can imagine tons of

1114
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: of time for the men to tow to being hanging

1115
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: out in camp and or on the hill making these pieces,

1116
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: making their artifacts, making them. It took a lot of

1117
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: effort to make these shafts. On the at laddles Um.

1118
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 1: They'd kill a deer and they'd dry the meat and

1119
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: that would get them through for quite a while. You know.

1120
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: The ladies I'm sure would be out gathering firewood and

1121
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: and uh acorns and so lots of community time, but

1122
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: no probably no sense of time. And so they had

1123
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: a lot of time on their hands. And my I'm

1124
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: sure they did. And so if you could see, I

1125
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: used to think of these archaic folkses um, you know,

1126
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: just looking kind of drab and um. But some of

1127
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 1: the pieces that we found in these caves that have

1128
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: been per erved, the colors of their clothing, the jewelry

1129
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: they wore, I'm sure we'd be stunned at what we

1130
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: would say if we walked into the village of these guys. Yeah,

1131
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty some pretty ornate stuff. You know, some of

1132
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: the jewelery you have here, You think, what, well, there's

1133
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: all kinds of even the knives and the cutlery and

1134
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: things that they is what we call it. It's they'd

1135
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: get they'd get limestone and they they die and pack

1136
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: it together and then um, you know they can be

1137
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,439
Speaker 1: you know, yellows and reds and we find it all

1138
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: the time. And so they had a lot of color too. Yeah,

1139
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: that was interesting how you talked about, you know, how

1140
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: they eight and how they you know, gather around these

1141
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 1: places and what really have through finding their artifacts of

1142
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: artifacts from their way of life, how you can really

1143
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 1: map out how they lived, you know in the micro

1144
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: sense and the macro sense, the sense then yeah, you

1145
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 1: know how they traveled and how thematic they really were. Well,

1146
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 1: if he hadn't seen the when um, when shock, he's

1147
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: over there and with the mass I yeah, sitting around

1148
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: that campfire and and they're just talking about the ancient

1149
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 1: stories and they're hey, they're talking to each other and

1150
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: they're not texting each other or they're not you know,

1151
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: they don't have a TV tray sitting there staring at

1152
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 1: some senseless show. I mean, they're actually learning their culture.

1153
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: And I can see him just gathering around talking about

1154
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: laughing and talking about the day's hunt and when so

1155
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 1: and so was about to shoot the deer and tripped,

1156
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: and you know, and they were laughing and and uh,

1157
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: in a sense, uh, the biggest worry was eating. But

1158
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: it was plentiful around there, and you can always you

1159
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: can survive on grasshoppers, I mean, and they did. Yeah,

1160
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: that's funny. You said acorns. That was not something that

1161
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 1: I would have guessed. Yeah, lots of lots of acorn ash.

1162
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean they find they've studied, of course, the archaeologists

1163
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: have studied the the hearth and it's just acorns, lots

1164
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 1: of grass seed. So they take the seeds and they

1165
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: they grind him. Another deal that we hadn't talked about,

1166
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: as they used grinding stones, these limestone grinding stones, and

1167
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: the grit that comes off of them and the teeth

1168
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 1: that we find in these Wow that you know, these uh,

1169
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 1: skeletal remains that archaeologists have come acrost. Their teeth are

1170
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: worn down to the bone and so lots of of abscess,

1171
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: lots of death by their teethings. It's funny. That's my

1172
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: that's my professional oral and maxil face of surgery. So

1173
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: it's it's intriguing to me. The culture that now that

1174
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 1: we're on teeth real quick, the culture, the castel culture

1175
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: out there that in West Texas they would to let

1176
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: you guia, they cook it and then chew the pulp

1177
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 1: out of it and spit those quids out. And that's

1178
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: what I was. Yeah, you're showing me that we have

1179
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: a lot of that here. But that had a lot

1180
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: of carbohydrate in it, and they skeletal remains, lots of decay,

1181
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: big evidence of big abscesses. Oh wow. And so I

1182
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: imagine it was a terrible what you're saying. There's a

1183
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: lot of you know, a lot of bowel problems, gut problems,

1184
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: a lot of teeth problems, just unhealthy living. Yeah, I

1185
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: mean that we can't imagine. There's no way we I

1186
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: don't think there's any way that we can't imagine that.

1187
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: And in the previous podcast, I can't remember which conversation

1188
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,640
Speaker 1: it was, I talked about wanting to find in the

1189
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: modern sense of the word, you and I both traveled

1190
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: to Nepal, and there's some similarities there, but in the

1191
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: modern sense of the world, someone that has to kill

1192
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: to live. You know, the Discovery Channel loves to put

1193
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: on there, you know, the killed your family lives in

1194
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 1: Alaska and lives off the land and they choose to

1195
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 1: live that way. Well, the rub theres they choose to

1196
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: live that way. If they wanted to get into plane,

1197
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: fly into town and have a Hamburger, they could. They

1198
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,560
Speaker 1: just choose to live off the land, which is admirable,

1199
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 1: but they still have a choice. And I know there,

1200
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: I know in this world there are many indigital the

1201
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: Chimane people that Steve Ronella has traveled and been around

1202
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: in South America. Um, there's that are still living life

1203
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: with thinking about food as the necessity. They have to

1204
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 1: find that, they have to forge for it. They have

1205
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: to find it. They have to live off what's there.

1206
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: They have to They don't choose to. There's no there's

1207
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: no other way to do it. They have to harvest

1208
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: and kill everything that's to sustain their cultures. Saying their

1209
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: people stay in their own lives, and that mindset to

1210
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: me is one I would love to sit and explore

1211
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: as long as I could know It's that is something

1212
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: that's I can't imagine. Um. When I was in the

1213
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: Arctic hunting, uh muscos My one of my guys was

1214
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: born in an Igloo. So we're not far removed from

1215
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: some of the people to actually get to talk about

1216
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: how it how that really is, I mean, the gravity

1217
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: that they feel that they have to kill. Um. Yeah,

1218
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: But then again, what was it a huge deal to them?

1219
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: Or or would they be like, well, we're just not

1220
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: gonna eat meat for a month, but we're gonna be

1221
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: fine on acorns. Yeah? Yeah, how how that sets up?

1222
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: You know? I was you know, you can read about

1223
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: this and study about this. Um. I hope to do more,

1224
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: of course, but how Yeah, the spiritual nature of hunting,

1225
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: worshiping the animal, worshipping the ground, worshiping the place you lived,

1226
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: and how that man if itself is an interesting concept

1227
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: in and of that. Why was that happening? Was it

1228
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: happening because they felt that if they did that that

1229
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: the natural world would then present them the opportunity to

1230
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: eat meat. Or did did they do that because their

1231
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: world's revolved around that animal so much so that it

1232
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 1: became a deity or he spoke to them in such

1233
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: a way. So it's interesting to think about someone who's

1234
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: never known anything other than waking up and looking at

1235
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: the world around them and thinking about how they were

1236
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 1: going to sustain themselves. And we don't. We have no

1237
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 1: idea how that things are feelings. As much as you

1238
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: and I have traveled at the end of the world

1239
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: to try to at some to find that feeling, will

1240
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: never know what the guy that made that air point

1241
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: in your hand felt like when he killed an animal.

1242
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: Whether he felt pure joy because he knew that his

1243
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: people would be fed, or well, he felt some sort

1244
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: of sadness, or well, what connection he has the animal. Well,

1245
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:59,680
Speaker 1: it's in your hunt in Nepal, you guys are telling

1246
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: about if you if you can kill an animal and

1247
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 1: not have any sense of remorse at all, then you

1248
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: might you want to sit it, sit in the trade

1249
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: a little bit longer and do a little bit of

1250
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: reflecting of some sort. But you know, and again, is

1251
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: it killing or harvesting? You know, we kill the animals

1252
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 1: and I have a great time doing that. I love

1253
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: to to kill. It is and it but it's the

1254
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: DNA that we share with these guys. And I respect

1255
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 1: the animals too. Sense that you can see how I

1256
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 1: respect these animals out here. What I've provided these animals

1257
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 1: on this ranch. And we kill one, we hardly kill

1258
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: one buck year and three does. And it's just an

1259
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 1: amazing place for these animals to live respect some level

1260
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: of just understanding this, this kind of tapestry of human

1261
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: life that we'll never know how they felt. Yeah, like

1262
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 1: it is impossible to understand how they felt. And you

1263
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: have a this is a buffalo hide on your wall

1264
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: behind you. That's a buffalo calf, a buffalo calf high

1265
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,599
Speaker 1: that is it's just a tanned you know, poorly tanned

1266
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: hide or an ancient it's from pre reservation. You made it.

1267
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 1: Talk about it, please do, because I was I'm now

1268
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 1: I'm looking at him, like, let's talk about this thing.

1269
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 1: So this, this hide was found an upstate New York

1270
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: seven home built back in the seventeen hundreds that they

1271
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: were remodeling. And in the attic there's an old military

1272
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 1: home and in the attic bawled up in the corner

1273
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 1: they found this. They rolled it out and it's a

1274
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 1: war trophy from the Indian Wars right before a little

1275
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: Big Horn when they'd ran, you know, the government would

1276
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 1: come in and they'd uh essentially destroy these villages trying

1277
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 1: to wipe the Indians out. I mean, there's no other

1278
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 1: way you know about it. That's what they're doing. They

1279
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: take the loot. They take all this stuff that's cool

1280
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 1: to them. It's just as cool of those guys as

1281
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: just us. They send it back east and they would

1282
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 1: uh use you know, they call war trophies. So anyway,

1283
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 1: this and survived and it has about fifteen different scenes

1284
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: of it's one battle depicted here of the Sioux fighting

1285
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: the Pawnee, and the brilliant colors and the the artistry.

1286
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: It's these Indians riding in the horses, most of the

1287
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: Pawneer on foot, and the Sioux warriors with their brilliant

1288
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: head dresses. Some of them were had more feathers than others,

1289
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,719
Speaker 1: and that depicted their social class there and in the tribe.

1290
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: But they're they're having a fallen battle, no guns, all

1291
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 1: own arrow and lances and uh, it's just a piece

1292
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: of art that is extremely rare. That uh by getting

1293
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: to know the people in the subculture world of artifacts

1294
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: that I was fortunate enough to come across and uh

1295
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 1: now it's displayed in the Indian room. Yeah, that's just amazing.

1296
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 1: I was looking at the deal. I guess you call

1297
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 1: an illustrations pictions of what those look like, and that's

1298
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: such a striking Yeah, it gives color to to there.

1299
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: It's hard to look back in time and see it

1300
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: in color. Um. It's like that country song Jamie Johnson sings.

1301
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: But anyway, it's hard to see that in color. You

1302
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: go back that was a couple of hundred years ago,

1303
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: you go back eight six, eight thousand, you or you

1304
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 1: go back to the clubs culture. And it's not just buckskin,

1305
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,520
Speaker 1: just one other. I mean, these guys had these brilliant

1306
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 1: shells from that they were trading from the West coast

1307
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: with inset uh stone, different types of turquoise and all

1308
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: inset um. Just some amazingly ornate um dresses and with

1309
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 1: elk teeth, with a hundred sets of bugle and teeth

1310
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: on one elk skirt the ladies wore. Well, well, I've

1311
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: got a couple of see how I pull them up

1312
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: here the first time I've ever kind of asked for

1313
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:37,000
Speaker 1: some questions from past listeners about the topic. There's a

1314
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: few good ones here. We'll go. We'll just do two

1315
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:44,519
Speaker 1: of them. Chase Rutherford, it asked, h Well, you already

1316
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 1: kind of covered this, but to be interesting to get

1317
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: back over, do you have any Clovis points and what

1318
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 1: were they used for? Specifically? Do you you know, let's

1319
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: talk about it. You said you not found clothes here,

1320
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,759
Speaker 1: and I hadn't found clothes here, but but I believe

1321
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,640
Speaker 1: they're to be. Absolutely there's I've have some of my

1322
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: uh digging buddies um have found Clovis and uh the

1323
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 1: last one buddy have found one in Johnson City, which

1324
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 1: from the back road here is about fifteen minutes. So

1325
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 1: absolutely there's Clovis sites. But the Clovis sites are so

1326
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 1: much harder to find because they didn't they didn't cook

1327
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: in this midden style camp um, and then they were

1328
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: just so nomadic. They may have been there for three

1329
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: nights and maybe left two piece to Clovis points are

1330
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 1: none and so a lot of the Clovis pickups are

1331
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 1: missed shots or they shoot at something they can't find

1332
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: their their shaft and then we find them. It may

1333
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: not necessary, that's just a random fine. And so the

1334
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 1: closes there they hunted, uh mammoth um. That's what the

1335
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: clothes you know, Clovis in New Mexico where they found

1336
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: that carcass. That mammoth carcass were five closed points in

1337
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:01,479
Speaker 1: it um. But I'm sure they're their clubs cultures hunting

1338
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: armadals with them and deer and and whatever else that

1339
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: they can throw at. Yeah, what's the importance of that?

1340
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've heard and read a little about

1341
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: the clubs culture. It seems like a of those that

1342
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,479
Speaker 1: know a little bit about Asian hunters an important culture

1343
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: to know. Could you like place that of the sense

1344
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:22,839
Speaker 1: of time? There there thought to be the first peoples

1345
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: of North America to inhabit North America and that's why

1346
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 1: they're so, that's why they're so important. And and um,

1347
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: so they date back to twelve five twelve thousand five

1348
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 1: years ago and they went extinct about ten thousand years ago.

1349
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 1: They went extinct with the bison. And take us here

1350
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 1: and um which is a skull on pointing out of um,

1351
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: Buddy Mine has a big bison jump on his ranch

1352
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:53,719
Speaker 1: in Wyoming. Yeah, Frank Neville. Ridiculous, ridiculous artifacts there. But yeah, Okay,

1353
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: that's so that's what they're hunting. They're hunting whatever they

1354
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:00,719
Speaker 1: can eat. They're shooting them at turkeys, they're they're they're

1355
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 1: just surviving, I mean big time surviving. And uh, that's good.

1356
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: Look up the clothes culture. If you don't know much

1357
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 1: about it, there's a lot of interesting books and things

1358
01:21:09,439 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 1: out there, all to try to throw some links to

1359
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,759
Speaker 1: some of my flute in the club in the point

1360
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 1: is what's yeah that specific about about that? It has

1361
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: a big flute that runs up the middle of it

1362
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 1: where they would have to where the the stick would go.

1363
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: It's like a almost like an indentation. Yeah, they're being

1364
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,840
Speaker 1: a big channel of flint out of the middle of it,

1365
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, and then make it thinner so they could

1366
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 1: put it down the shaft easier and then they could

1367
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 1: use their sin you to tie it on in the

1368
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:42,520
Speaker 1: asphaltum or the book. Here we're looking at the paleo

1369
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,599
Speaker 1: the paleo period of the Clovis ten thousand BC two

1370
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 1: nine thousand BC. Some of these points that are channeled

1371
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 1: out in the center interesting looking. But that's why he's

1372
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 1: asking about. That's the fine. I mean, you find the Clovis,

1373
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 1: whether it's broken or just the base or whatever, and

1374
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 1: you're that's been on this continent. Yeah, that's the oldest,

1375
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: oldest people that were. I think we're all collectively rooting

1376
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: for you to get the ball close. We just got

1377
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 1: a big deeper Uh well, we got tools to do it, yes, sir,

1378
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,360
Speaker 1: Chris I don't know how to say your last name. Sorry,

1379
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 1: Chris Gleam g l e I g l E I am.

1380
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: So I'm really interested in the skills of our ancient

1381
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 1: hunting ancestors that they acquired and how those are passed

1382
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: on us today and how the use or misuse of

1383
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 1: them effects are everyday lives, specifically the skills. Yeah, so

1384
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 1: I can just picture these guys and a friend of mine,

1385
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: um who has this amazing collection of cave stuff, has

1386
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: a whole collection of little kids toys and doll bow

1387
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 1: and arrows made for little dolls that are like this

1388
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 1: that are about three inches tied perfectly with all the

1389
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:01,880
Speaker 1: to scale everything. And so while our kids are playing,

1390
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, playing video games or jumping rope or whatever

1391
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 1: they're they're playing shooting games with their at lattles to learn. Yeah,

1392
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 1: and there, you know, I'm sure I can We're picture

1393
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 1: in them sitting up over a great water source or

1394
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: or a big of the few trees, the oak tree

1395
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 1: that's dropping the acorns and the deer they're they're up

1396
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 1: in the top and there waiting on that deer to

1397
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: come in. And the um, you know, they're a lot

1398
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: more silent and they had to be. Their stocking abilities

1399
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 1: and their tracking abilities were if you've if you've been

1400
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 1: to Africa and seeing the trackers there, it's just mind blowing.

1401
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 1: What they can look out across a hundred yards and

1402
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: see one blade of grass it's been over and know

1403
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:54,000
Speaker 1: what direction where and see these are things that they read,

1404
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 1: like the oxidation in the stand how many hours? And

1405
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 1: so these are things that we um with our awesome

1406
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: bows don't need to learn, and so we don't. Most

1407
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:12,439
Speaker 1: of us don't learn that. Even the most skilled hunters

1408
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: um bow hunters and the guys that are doing long

1409
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 1: bows and all that are amazing, But but we're missing

1410
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 1: such a big piece of the Yeah, I think about

1411
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 1: even your passion, like if your passion was a river.

1412
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 1: The bigger this river gets, the more tributaries it has,

1413
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, so as you find more heads and get

1414
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: more passion and dig deeper, you you have to almost

1415
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:38,639
Speaker 1: by proxy, learn about the natural world. Here, the trees,

1416
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: the rock, what type of rocks are in the ground,

1417
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:43,840
Speaker 1: what type of soil um what to look for you

1418
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: know in that soil. So you, like you said, become

1419
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 1: an amateur archaeologist just by your own the passion where

1420
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 1: it leads you. As that you know, the river of

1421
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 1: your passion gets bigger, it's gonna branch off into other

1422
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,479
Speaker 1: knowledge bases you might not have if you didn't love

1423
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: hiding arrowheads, right, I totally agree. And and you know,

1424
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: and back to his point on on the skills and

1425
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 1: all it's it takes it just a few moved ten

1426
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 1: percent of of the knowledge that if the hunter has

1427
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: to kill a big elk, you just you if you

1428
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 1: were willing to get off the couch and go find

1429
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 1: one and look at shoot through your scope and he's dead,

1430
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 1: but you missed where was that elk last night? And

1431
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 1: what path was he on? And what was he eating?

1432
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: And where do I need to set up? And where

1433
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,640
Speaker 1: do I need to set my next camp for my

1434
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 1: family to live three more months? Knowing the the way

1435
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: that the elk travel this certain time of year, and

1436
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that we're missing that that we

1437
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:49,720
Speaker 1: don't need but but would be awesome to know. And

1438
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: that's an awesome question. It's just that really that question

1439
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: right there is you could sit around here and have

1440
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: a have a drink and talk for hours about Yeah,

1441
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many When I was an editor

1442
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 1: of Petersons Hunting Magazine or one of the editors. Um,

1443
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 1: we always every year did like an old school issue

1444
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: where we would celebrate some sort of old school things.

1445
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 1: But our old school was like, oh the eighties, in

1446
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 1: the seventies, what did they do? We never thought too

1447
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 1: or I haven't seen anybody think too. Really look hard

1448
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 1: at how these ancient hunters lived their lives, and why

1449
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,680
Speaker 1: they lived the way they did, and how they you know,

1450
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 1: we're talking thousands of thousands of years here where you've

1451
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: got from the Clovis people to the Falsome people. Such

1452
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 1: an evolution in the human body, the human brain, the

1453
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 1: human the human ability that we can't conceive of that. Yeah,

1454
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: so just now a thousand years later, we're looking at

1455
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 1: in the Paleo period Falsome points, which are much more

1456
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: diminut if still still ornate almost in the way that

1457
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 1: they were incredible they were made. So even the older

1458
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:05,680
Speaker 1: the you know, you've there're so old times around here

1459
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 1: that you find a crude air and they're like, oh,

1460
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 1: that's old, that's all. No. Really old stuff is the

1461
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,719
Speaker 1: stuff that is truly a work of art and and

1462
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 1: and it seems like you're looking at the fulsome people

1463
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:21,640
Speaker 1: here in nine thousand BC, or even back over to

1464
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 1: the Clovis people then they're the first few people in

1465
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,799
Speaker 1: seven thousand. These are if somebody handed that to you today,

1466
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 1: you would say you would want to put it in

1467
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: a case. Know what it was? That's such a beautiful

1468
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: piece of stone. I did find a plane view which

1469
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 1: is eight thousand BC, when I was hunting up an

1470
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:43,719
Speaker 1: lope with with Phil out in the Mexican But yeah,

1471
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:45,639
Speaker 1: and it's in it. I left it on the ranch.

1472
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 1: You know. It's beautiful. It's beautiful pieces. Yeah, and that

1473
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't as rudimentary as it is. It just

1474
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem that way to look at that. These photos,

1475
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: the beautiful photos in this book. You can't hardly machine these, no,

1476
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 1: no any better. I mean, it's just amazing. And so

1477
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: the credit that that I give these ancient people now

1478
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: as to where you know, seeing them in black and white.

1479
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:20,800
Speaker 1: Back when I was growing up, these people were amazing

1480
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:24,640
Speaker 1: people and I'd love to hang out with them. I

1481
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 1: love them, I do. I mean, I love their culture.

1482
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: I just that that's what's the driving force in all this. Yeah. Well,

1483
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 1: and it's I've come to depreciate perspectives of all kinds,

1484
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:40,000
Speaker 1: and the reason why we record these conversations to try

1485
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: to let have introduce your perspective to other people, right,

1486
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: and then maybe it's something you've said during this conversation

1487
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 1: can help change the way that they think about our

1488
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 1: history as hunters or why hunting might be important to them,

1489
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:53,679
Speaker 1: and they're not even really sure about how to break

1490
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:56,920
Speaker 1: that down their own minds, Like your love for these

1491
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 1: ancient people, UM goes way beyond just possessing the things

1492
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 1: that they made one time. You know what's what's crazy

1493
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,800
Speaker 1: about it is the schools don't don't even teach this

1494
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: thing at all. They're like, yeah, some of the more

1495
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:15,639
Speaker 1: interesting being in discussion now. When we were talking about earlier,

1496
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to leave Texas probably for good and

1497
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 1: move to Montana set up home up there. And then

1498
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 1: part of thinking about my leaving here because my son

1499
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: was born here, you know, so it's an important place

1500
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 1: for me, and uh, part of my leaving here was

1501
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: trying to have trying to figure out how to have

1502
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 1: conversation with people like yourself that born race, grew up

1503
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 1: and have this intense appreciation for the natural world here. UM,

1504
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,559
Speaker 1: because as as different as Montan and Texas are, they

1505
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 1: both have their own stories. If you live in a place,

1506
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 1: uh and don't know the story of the history of

1507
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 1: the place that you live, start reading because that's I

1508
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: mean having like connection, family connection you have to this ground.

1509
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 1: But then also the connection to the ancient humans. That's

1510
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 1: pretty unique. Yeah, it's interesome and something that you can't

1511
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 1: nobody can duplicate that. You know, you can't duplicate that

1512
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 1: by going to the Smithsonian and looking around the connection

1513
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,719
Speaker 1: you have to these heads in this place. Yeah, it's great,

1514
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 1: it's great. Well, we love it, man, we love it.

1515
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 1: And it's comes across. Your kids are awesome. So your daughter,

1516
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 1: your oldest daughter, is going with you to the Brooks Range?

1517
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 1: Are you telling me going to the northern part of

1518
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 1: the Brooks Trains just recently apart that just recently opened

1519
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 1: um to hunting. Our guide has that big new concession

1520
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: up there and lots of sheep. She'll be ten next

1521
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:43,599
Speaker 1: uh August. And my dad took me, took my brother

1522
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 1: and me when we were when I was ten and

1523
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:48,920
Speaker 1: here he was twelve, to the Brooks Rains and we

1524
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 1: broaly got caribou and doll sheep and it's uh so

1525
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 1: my daughters. She's like, all right, well when I'm ten,

1526
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 1: we're going on And I was like, you bet you

1527
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,479
Speaker 1: your daughters ago. Yeah, he's raised them to be brave,

1528
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,760
Speaker 1: brave young ladies. Um, and that's awesome. Going as I

1529
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: started hunt when I was eleven. I think maybe I

1530
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:12,800
Speaker 1: was just shooting spikes on the in Maryland. But um, yeah,

1531
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:15,680
Speaker 1: you've traveled the world. Yeah, made it to Nepal. You know,

1532
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:17,879
Speaker 1: I don't know how many of us the Paul hunters

1533
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,800
Speaker 1: there there are. I guess the Paul well they only

1534
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: have what twenty tags a year and it was closed

1535
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 1: for how a decade? Not longer? With their silver war

1536
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:30,439
Speaker 1: you got. Really that Nepaul deal is pretty special. I

1537
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 1: mean you have to really want to challenge yourself and

1538
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 1: to to get out and yeah, yeah, I mean you

1539
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 1: you went last year, well not last year, just got back,

1540
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:44,880
Speaker 1: just got back from April April, um, a year after

1541
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 1: I went. Well, if you not heard the podcast that

1542
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: it David Cole Cramer on the subject, you should listen

1543
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:53,639
Speaker 1: to it. Um. So I won't tell retail my story anymore.

1544
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 1: But how do you find going to Nepal? I mean,

1545
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 1: it's like I said that there's a rare group until

1546
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: now that have gone on that can tell stories. But

1547
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure more people will go in there. So it

1548
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: was amazing to get to be in the Himalayas, to

1549
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 1: be it eighteen thousand feet. So we when we went,

1550
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:15,799
Speaker 1: we thought that the snowpack was gonna be heavy and

1551
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 1: we'd be hunting sheep at twelve to fourteen thousand. And

1552
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:22,800
Speaker 1: we show up and and I could tell the guide

1553
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 1: was dodging the question off that when we got off

1554
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,519
Speaker 1: the airplane, and finally he's like, look, guys, no snow,

1555
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 1: not much snow this year. You're gonna be hunting at

1556
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:35,680
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand feet every day. And uh, the worst part

1557
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:38,760
Speaker 1: about it was cat mean do flu Yeah, I got

1558
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,040
Speaker 1: it to ben at it pretty bad. Yeah, at least

1559
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 1: we can we can sit and have a whisky talk

1560
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: about catman do flu man? This means like that, but

1561
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 1: that we were talking about that that place. Um, I'll

1562
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 1: stop inter up in your story. But the place, it's

1563
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 1: just a a and the Western sense of the feeling

1564
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 1: an assault on all on your body, the air quality,

1565
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:05,040
Speaker 1: the food quality, just everything is assaulted. Then when you

1566
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 1: get the eighteen towns of feet, your entire you know,

1567
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 1: your circadian rhythms that are being assaulted by the way

1568
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:15,760
Speaker 1: you wait you sleep. Well, we were, you know, we

1569
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 1: get up to sixteen thousand and the guys are like, here,

1570
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: some sheep just's and I'm like, well, where's the rock.

1571
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 1: I gotta you know, diarrhea bad and so man, it was.

1572
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 1: It was three days eating rice and uh, thank god,

1573
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 1: I brought some heater meals. I've read an article and

1574
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 1: said bring something I brought so we could have some

1575
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: spaghetti or something or whatever, just enough to survive. But

1576
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 1: we were going along there. At one point my hunting

1577
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: buddy looked at him and he looked like hell, And

1578
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:48,560
Speaker 1: I said, Kurt, you all right man? He goes l

1579
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:51,720
Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to survive, and and I could

1580
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 1: see that he was not joking, and He's like, we

1581
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 1: made it to that day. And then in camp that

1582
01:33:57,240 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: night he goes, I swear to god, I thought we

1583
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:02,200
Speaker 1: were I have to call in dang helicopter or something

1584
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 1: to save me. It's good to hear that a huge sheep,

1585
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:09,719
Speaker 1: I know, it like the biggest sheep I've ever seen.

1586
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,640
Speaker 1: Although you know, we went there, we didn't see that

1587
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 1: many because we were struggling to get close to him.

1588
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's a probably a whole another podcast

1589
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 1: about a journey like that, but it's it's cool to

1590
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: see somebody like yourself that is able to do this

1591
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:24,760
Speaker 1: at home and still travel and do those things that

1592
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 1: bring your kids along. I mean, well in the you know,

1593
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:29,000
Speaker 1: I was bringing their head with me when I go

1594
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:33,240
Speaker 1: um that when I was at the Hickoria. Yeah that

1595
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:36,679
Speaker 1: the grind inch down there, you know that. The cool

1596
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:40,839
Speaker 1: deal about that was talking to and a true apache

1597
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 1: my good buddy now Bernard I nz uh Man, just

1598
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:49,240
Speaker 1: getting to hear that side of things. But anyway we

1599
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:51,640
Speaker 1: can go, you know, all kinds of different deals. But

1600
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:56,840
Speaker 1: talking to to our guide in Nepal around camp about

1601
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:00,080
Speaker 1: his culture and what artifacts are they finding in on

1602
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 1: I brought home a sixty year fifty year old knife

1603
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:07,080
Speaker 1: that was used in their camp. That's just archaic and

1604
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 1: just total badass. Chopped up Shocky Sheep chopped up a

1605
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:17,599
Speaker 1: fifty year old knife that chocked the Jim Shocky's Yeah,

1606
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Blue Sheep, I got it. I asked him for it,

1607
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 1: and he said, you know you you're gonna respect it

1608
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:25,519
Speaker 1: and and your passion for it, dude, to take it

1609
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:29,320
Speaker 1: home and display it and tell people about Nepal. Yeah,

1610
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:32,360
Speaker 1: well that's it too. I mean people, we get caught

1611
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:35,600
Speaker 1: up in this idea that you know, going over to

1612
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:37,800
Speaker 1: Nepal might be some truffy hunt where you're just looking

1613
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,080
Speaker 1: to bring back the handlers or the anilers to the

1614
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:42,040
Speaker 1: horns in this case, and tell everybody how great you

1615
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 1: are if by doing it. But it means so much

1616
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,599
Speaker 1: more as a person to venture over there and do that,

1617
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:50,240
Speaker 1: and to know in the going that the animal will

1618
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 1: be consumed and it's totality. Um, that's a huge part

1619
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 1: of it, of course, but but to see the artifacts

1620
01:35:58,160 --> 01:35:59,960
Speaker 1: you brought back, and we were comparing stories about what

1621
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm up brought back, what you brought back, and the

1622
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 1: respect we have for those people and the culture and

1623
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: the and the chance to go and do that. I

1624
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:10,400
Speaker 1: mean there, you know, any pushback someone might give you,

1625
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 1: especially the way that you've displayed your hunting life and

1626
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:17,519
Speaker 1: artifact life here in this room, it is preposterous. Um.

1627
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 1: Not that they're there's anybody that ever has challenged my

1628
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:22,880
Speaker 1: going to Nepal or yours, but just to say, like

1629
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: for proof, positive of respect for culture, respect for animals,

1630
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:31,240
Speaker 1: respect people. Um, it's here, man, it's it's it's in

1631
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 1: the walls. Yeah it is. It's cool. We love it.

1632
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:37,360
Speaker 1: We do. Well. That's a that's a good, good hour

1633
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: and a half. It's good to end on the fact

1634
01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 1: that you take these arrowheads to the places you go

1635
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 1: and give them to the people that you meet. I

1636
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:48,559
Speaker 1: think that's a damn good way to bring Texas to Yeah,

1637
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:50,600
Speaker 1: it'll be fun for me because you gave me a

1638
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 1: nice display of arrowheads from from your ranch here, So

1639
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take those Montana display the office. Real cool,

1640
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:00,240
Speaker 1: real cool. Well, thank you, Russell. All right, So yeah,

1641
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 1: that's it. That's all episode number in the books. Russell Cunningham,

1642
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:11,120
Speaker 1: thank you for letting us into your home and letting

1643
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 1: us into your life to hear about you in your

1644
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 1: family and what you do. Russell did ask me after

1645
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 1: the fact to explain to everybody that, uh, in Texas,

1646
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:26,360
Speaker 1: on your own private property you can dig and keep

1647
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:29,120
Speaker 1: is artifacts that we spoke up in the podcast. So

1648
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,599
Speaker 1: a lot of other states that is not the case, um,

1649
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,599
Speaker 1: but here in Texas that is. So I just want

1650
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,400
Speaker 1: to make Scheck make that clear that Russell is respectful

1651
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:41,280
Speaker 1: of the land and of the history of the place

1652
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 1: and understands what he's doing here in Texas finding artifacts,

1653
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:48,880
Speaker 1: and so hopefully you learned a little bit about the

1654
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:52,679
Speaker 1: history of this place and some of the hunting cultures

1655
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 1: that called this place home. So that's it for number.

1656
01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 1: Number is coming up next twenty is going to be

1657
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:04,560
Speaker 1: with a with a fairly special man. That man is

1658
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:09,200
Speaker 1: Eddie Reese. Coach. Eddie Reese. Eddie Reese is the winning

1659
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,680
Speaker 1: ist n C double A coach of all time. He

1660
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:16,080
Speaker 1: is the head swimming coach for the last oh Man

1661
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 1: since nine at least that's why I remember years. That

1662
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:23,719
Speaker 1: is the head swimming coach of the University of Texas.

1663
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: And he's a hunter. Eddie is used hunting in his

1664
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:31,720
Speaker 1: past to help train Olympic athletes who gold medals. And

1665
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:34,320
Speaker 1: there's somebody who values his time outside. So he's another

1666
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 1: extraordinary man, seventy seven years old. We're gonna hear from

1667
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:40,960
Speaker 1: him next time. I'm hunting Collective. Until then, go to

1668
01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 1: the website, hit us up and tell us how we did,

1669
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:50,720
Speaker 1: and keep listening, keep enjoying the conversation, keep praising, keep

1670
01:38:50,720 --> 01:39:02,320
Speaker 1: telling us how we get back see you M in

1671
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:12,800
Speaker 1: a m