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Speaker 1: hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways on Joe,
Speaker 1: joined as always by and Steve and again Well I'm surprise, surprise,
Speaker 1: we got a mystery to talk about this week. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about the disappearance of Jim Gray, who you
Speaker 1: haul heard of. I'm sure very famous. He actually has
Speaker 1: had an impact, even if I have not heard of him.
Speaker 1: Very well known in the tech world, though he disappeared
Speaker 1: almost ten years ago. But first of all, I want
Speaker 1: to thank Shimmy who suggested this like a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. Um. But back to Jim Gray. He was
Speaker 1: a big pioneer in the modern tech industry. He worked
Speaker 1: at Bell Labs, IBM, Deck, Microsoft, God knows how many
Speaker 1: companies he worked for. Very well known guy, highly regarded,
Speaker 1: and he played a big part in developing technologies that
Speaker 1: we all used today. Believe it or not, he did. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: not directly. I mean I'm probably somewhere somehow, you know,
Speaker 1: you could connect him to it, but probably seven degrees
Speaker 1: of Jim Gray pretty much. Yeah. Jim was a sailor,
Speaker 1: had a forty ft sailboat. He boarded his sailboat the
Speaker 1: morning of January two thousand and seven, which was a Sunday,
Speaker 1: sailed out alone to the Golden Gates in San Francisco
Speaker 1: into the ocean. It was supposed to be a day
Speaker 1: trip to the far A Long Islands, which are twenty
Speaker 1: seven miles west of San Francisco. It was a nice
Speaker 1: day call conditions, Sonny, but still Jim never made it back.
Speaker 1: He vanished without a trace, which is kind of odd.
Speaker 1: He didn't send it a stress signal. No wreckage or
Speaker 1: flots some from his boat was ever found, Like I said,
Speaker 1: he vanished without He totally did San Francisco Triangle. Yeah. Probably,
Speaker 1: I'd say it's kind of creepy, but Halloween mouth is over,
Speaker 1: so creepy's out. Strange is in. So that's what it is.
Speaker 1: Strange strange November. Yeah, kind of head scratching November okay,
Speaker 1: but oh is that what it is? That or that's eighties? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I thought it was puzzling and now it's just scabies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stay too fast, I know, always straight to the bottom. Uh.
Speaker 1: But when word got out that Jim Gray had disappeared,
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the tech world took notice.
Speaker 1: A lot of big names that you probably heard of,
Speaker 1: like Bill Gates, Sergey Brinn from Google, Larry Allison from Oracle,
Speaker 1: and Bliss goes on what's his name from Amazon. Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 1: they all wanted to help in anyway they could, and
Speaker 1: they all did. Search for Jim Gray was about as
Speaker 1: comprehensive as any search ever done for anybody. I think
Speaker 1: you guys read all that stuff that I said. It
Speaker 1: was big time search. Thousands of people were involving this
Speaker 1: in the end. Yeah, but still they didn't find him
Speaker 1: or a trace of them. So what happened? Did you
Speaker 1: skip out and everything sale to en Sonatas start a
Speaker 1: new life. Did the illuminati get him? Did the crack
Speaker 1: and get him? Yes? Yeah, the crack can usually leaves wreckage. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't the cracking, Probably not the acinnati. Maybe
Speaker 1: naughty kracken Uh, yeah, it's kind of repetitious. And yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so what's I mean, what's the deal here? I mean,
Speaker 1: let's well, let's go back to square one. Um, so
Speaker 1: just just a little bi bio stuff on Jim, and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go back to the day he
Speaker 1: was born. He was sixty three when he disappeared. On
Speaker 1: his second marriage, his second wife was Donna. They had
Speaker 1: about twenty years of experienced sailing their their boat and
Speaker 1: together together and separately, and because Jim went a single
Speaker 1: hand occasionally, and they sorry you may not know this
Speaker 1: off the top of your head, how they it was
Speaker 1: a longer marriage. They you know, it was his second wife.
Speaker 1: But they were married for Yeah, they were married for
Speaker 1: quite a while. I don't remember exactly, think they met. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then they married just a couple of No, they
Speaker 1: got married really quick because you proposed on their third date.
Speaker 1: I remember because they were both you know, at this
Speaker 1: point they were God, they would have both been a
Speaker 1: fifty at that point, so there's no reason to muck about.
Speaker 1: But they were married for about ten years. It wasn't
Speaker 1: as though two years in suddenly he disappears. It's like
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, they got married and they wanted
Speaker 1: their honey, even in Australia, and next thing, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm is dead. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like that
Speaker 1: at all. They were they alre together for a while.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it doesn't probably matter. I just wonder,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it does. Oh yeah, they're both
Speaker 1: their boat. You probably want to know. This was a
Speaker 1: C and C forty, which is a forty ft sloop
Speaker 1: but manufactured in Canada. Sloop slop. Sloop is a single
Speaker 1: man of the most common way that you see it's
Speaker 1: a single mast is sailing sailboat. Yeah, and then it's
Speaker 1: it's the mast is stepped kind of forward. And then
Speaker 1: actually there's might have been a cutter because the cutter
Speaker 1: the stat it looks just like a sloop with the
Speaker 1: mast is stepped a little further back, and it's it's
Speaker 1: got two head sails instead of one. Okay, so I
Speaker 1: don't know, but it's just like when you think, like
Speaker 1: when a kid draws a sailboat, this is what they're drawing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one mast. Sorry, we don't all know body terms like
Speaker 1: you do. That's a good point. Okay, Yeah, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: about that. As I mentioned, Jim Gray was in the
Speaker 1: tech business at the time he disappeared. He was working
Speaker 1: for Microsoft. He lived in a house on Telegraph Hill
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Really tough life. Yeah, I know, poor guy.
Speaker 1: By the way, they definitely the sort of thing you'd
Speaker 1: want to run away from. Yeah, exactly. They weren't renting,
Speaker 1: by the way, they owned. I'm sure they did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did, which if you know San Francisco neighborhoods, that's
Speaker 1: a spending little name, even in or two. Definitely. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I did. Just for fun, I went out and Zillo
Speaker 1: looked listings of Telegraph Hills and I found it. I
Speaker 1: found that make you feel. I found I found one
Speaker 1: vacant lot. It was about fifteen hundred square feet for
Speaker 1: only two hundred thousand bucks. But it was a vacant lot. Well,
Speaker 1: it was a vacant lot, but they had some pictures
Speaker 1: of it, and it was on the hillside about literally
Speaker 1: this steep fortified in other words. Yeah, and so that
Speaker 1: was the cheapest thinggraph hill. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess if you have people literally Bill Gates being
Speaker 1: concerned personally for your well being, you're probably probably probably
Speaker 1: influential and they're gonna pay some good money. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: And they had, as I said, a forty foot sale
Speaker 1: boat now again tough life, which they kept board in
Speaker 1: a marina and what's called Gashouse Cove in San Francisco Bay.
Speaker 1: It's kind of just west several blocks of Gardelli Square.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure it costs you a boatload of bucks
Speaker 1: to keep your boat there. It's pretty clever name tenacious. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure there was a little wordplay involved
Speaker 1: in there too. Yeah. Like Jim Gray's mother had died
Speaker 1: a few months before, that was October two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and on Sunday, January seven, he was planning to sail
Speaker 1: to the fair Long Islands to scatter her ashes. Apparently
Speaker 1: that was her wishes, was to have her ashes scattered there.
Speaker 1: Kind of ironic, and he disappears carrying out her last wishes.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of she probably wouldn't would have
Speaker 1: wished for something different if she had known, but you know,
Speaker 1: hindsight and all that stuff. Right. Um, So he spent
Speaker 1: the previous night on the boat so we can get
Speaker 1: an early start. Seven am. He was ready to go.
Speaker 1: He called Donna at seven oh one am, and she
Speaker 1: was in with Wisconsin at that time, vacationally with some friends.
Speaker 1: It was like an annual. Yeah, she has some somebodies
Speaker 1: and they always took off Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, ski and
Speaker 1: ice fish and drink beer and I don't know, tip
Speaker 1: cows or whatever you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, eat cheese.
Speaker 1: But told her that he was going to go out
Speaker 1: scatter mom's ashes and that he was not going to
Speaker 1: disappear and turn up in Baja and her new name
Speaker 1: now not at all. Uh. So you cast us sometime
Speaker 1: between then and about seven fifteen and headed out from
Speaker 1: the arena. It's about two and a half miles west
Speaker 1: to the Golden Gate Bridge and then from there it's
Speaker 1: about two and a half more until you get to
Speaker 1: the open ocean, you know, and it seems like it's
Speaker 1: like the oceans right there. But actually now it's it's
Speaker 1: not at all. It's it's a little ways away because
Speaker 1: it's a big river. Yeah, it's it's a big end
Speaker 1: like yeah, river, harbor, whatever you call it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: from there, like I said, about another twenty five miles
Speaker 1: maybe to to southeast Farrellin Island, which is the largest
Speaker 1: of the chain. There's several of the chain and southeast
Speaker 1: is the big one and it's the only one that
Speaker 1: has people on it, and those people are basically government
Speaker 1: employees who run sort of. But it's big enough for
Speaker 1: people to live on. Yeah, but it's not like there's
Speaker 1: an economy. It's just their scientists who are basically gathering
Speaker 1: wildlife information and stuff like that. But it's not just like,
Speaker 1: you know, a rock, like you know, it's not like
Speaker 1: the islands we have in the middle of our river. No, right, No,
Speaker 1: it's bigger than that. Yeah, it's big enough to build,
Speaker 1: big enough to you could build a lighthouse on it
Speaker 1: and have your like your bigger than a breads appear. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't fit in a bread box. No, it's it's big. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think actually I think it does have a lighthouse
Speaker 1: on it. I didn't think of it. Yeah, but anyway,
Speaker 1: that's southeast fair Long Island. Um. So Jim calls Donna
Speaker 1: again about ten thirty, and the callers relates to a
Speaker 1: singular cell tower in Daily City, which is south of
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and singular as in like a T and
Speaker 1: T singular. It's not like singlar. Yeah, is that singular? Singular? Singular? Okay,
Speaker 1: that would have been due east of his position, therefore
Speaker 1: the closest one because he was a way out to
Speaker 1: sea and Dalli's dally Cities, Daily City, Daily City. Sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it's on mainland. Yes, it's just south and on
Speaker 1: the west side of the peninsula kind of west station.
Speaker 1: Not not real west, but you know, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's he was almost out of cell range and he
Speaker 1: just called to say the usual, you know, which he
Speaker 1: scattering Mom's ashes. Uh. And by the way, if I
Speaker 1: don't come back, it's because I've been Davy Jones locker,
Speaker 1: not in a brothel. And it's not a no, no,
Speaker 1: not at all. And I and actual, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. He called just say the weather was
Speaker 1: really good, and probably just to check in. You say,
Speaker 1: like this is my progress. Everything's going well. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he said, I'm basically out kind of passed the last
Speaker 1: the last bootie marker for the channel. Uh. There's a
Speaker 1: little ambiguity there because apparently it's a fairly complicated situation.
Speaker 1: There's three channels that come together from the ocean, north, south,
Speaker 1: and west all come together into one like nine mile
Speaker 1: channel that goes all the way to the Golden Gate Bridge,
Speaker 1: and so all the all the big incoming ships have
Speaker 1: to follow that ship that incoming channel. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot kinds of booty markers out there, and so there's
Speaker 1: a little ambiguity about exactly which booe marker he was
Speaker 1: talking about. But I can see that. Yeah, there were
Speaker 1: people that went back and tried to reassemble it that
Speaker 1: really really intense timeline that like you know, noted all
Speaker 1: of his movements, and they could never totally resolve exactly
Speaker 1: where he was. But between him saying that and and
Speaker 1: between the cell phone pinging that tower in Daily City,
Speaker 1: it does appear that he really was on the boat.
Speaker 1: It's not like he said he was getting on the
Speaker 1: boat and then just nipped out and jumped on a
Speaker 1: bus and left town and they scuttled, scuttled the boat
Speaker 1: in the middle of San Francisco Bay, swam and swam
Speaker 1: ashore and then just like left town. Not not no,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I can see bull ways why
Speaker 1: it's worth discussing this second call, because he just called
Speaker 1: her at seven to basically say, Hey, it's looking like
Speaker 1: a nice day. This is what I'm going to do,
Speaker 1: you know, love you whatever. And I don't know their relationships,
Speaker 1: so I don't know if they were the kind of people.
Speaker 1: I have some friends who are on the phone with
Speaker 1: their husbands like every three hours, you know, they just
Speaker 1: like they call at lunch, they call at their break,
Speaker 1: they talk on their phone all the time, which seems
Speaker 1: excessive to me, but that but I mean, that's how
Speaker 1: some people are. So if they were that kind of couple,
Speaker 1: it does make sense that he would call her again
Speaker 1: and saying like, hey, I'm leaving cell phone range. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know that they were totally that kind of couple,
Speaker 1: but I think they were. I think they were in
Speaker 1: great terms. I think they really care for each other,
Speaker 1: and so not at all surprising. And by the way,
Speaker 1: he was on a sailboilt in the Millinoral out in
Speaker 1: the ocean with not a whole lot to do. So
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, why don't I make some phone calls?
Speaker 1: You know I can't. I mean, I see that too.
Speaker 1: I guess what I would say is like, if it
Speaker 1: were I know my fiance well enough to know that
Speaker 1: if this were us, he would have called me at
Speaker 1: seven and said, Okay, I'm going to do this today,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna be out of cellphone range the entire
Speaker 1: day and would have expected me to just wait until
Speaker 1: he called me when he got back to land at
Speaker 1: the end of the day and just assume everything is fine, right,
Speaker 1: And so there are people like that too. So but
Speaker 1: on the other hand, I can also see how I
Speaker 1: don't think people might think, well, this is like the
Speaker 1: last time he ever called his wife, he was trying
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to her. It wasn't the last phone
Speaker 1: call he made. Not the important point. It's not, but
Speaker 1: it is also, you know, I can I guess I
Speaker 1: can see why it's worth discussing either way. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean it could be read that way. Although he
Speaker 1: didn't say anything that really stood out in her mind later,
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything like honey, you know I love you.
Speaker 1: So much. I mean, maybe he did, but especially it
Speaker 1: was just like, hey, weather's great, you know. And and
Speaker 1: then she says, you're wearing her harness because you know,
Speaker 1: in your single hand and you're supposed to wear a
Speaker 1: harness that you don't fall off, so don't fall overboard,
Speaker 1: and he said he was wearing his harness. One other
Speaker 1: thing that man may not be relevant at all is
Speaker 1: she said she didn't hear any engine noises, so he
Speaker 1: was just under stale, not running the diesel they have,
Speaker 1: they have a diesel motor on these things. Uh. But
Speaker 1: that's about it for that phone call. And then he
Speaker 1: also called his daughter at ten thirty eight. That was
Speaker 1: the last phone call. She had recently had a son
Speaker 1: that would be Jim's grandson. Yeah, and maybe that's why
Speaker 1: she didn't pick up the phone. But he did leave
Speaker 1: her a voicemail saying kind of the same thing. You know,
Speaker 1: whether it's good, it's gonna go scattered grandma's ashes. There's
Speaker 1: dolphins all around me. It's beautiful. Everything's the worst beautiful
Speaker 1: out here, and uh and on and on and on
Speaker 1: and by the way, goodbye forever, I love you now,
Speaker 1: just kidding. He didn't sit so you could read that
Speaker 1: that way. He's saying goodbye to the most important people's life.
Speaker 1: He's calling them on the phone. He's gonna go kill himself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't, Or you could again, like you said,
Speaker 1: you could read it as he was bored in the
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean. Yeah, I thought, what the hell
Speaker 1: you know, I'm about to run pick a couple of
Speaker 1: phone calls. Yeah, why not? Again? You know, it comes
Speaker 1: down to get I guess those different personality types where
Speaker 1: I would definitely be that kind of person who would
Speaker 1: just be like I am bored with Heck, I gotta
Speaker 1: call some people. I gotta talk some people. I do
Speaker 1: not like being alone, and I just like make all
Speaker 1: these phone calls and talk to all these people. To
Speaker 1: turn off my cell phone. An, I mean you would
Speaker 1: have because I know you well enough to know you
Speaker 1: would have, like you would have placed that last call
Speaker 1: and turned it off and been like, this is amazing,
Speaker 1: this ocean is beautiful. I love this. It's the best.
Speaker 1: So I guess, you know, part of it comes down
Speaker 1: to personality types pretty much. So it's hard to read
Speaker 1: into this without knowing him. Yeah, it is hard to
Speaker 1: say if that means anything. I don't think it does,
Speaker 1: but you know, we'll we'll say, we'll talk about that
Speaker 1: in theories generally, I mean, obviously, and when people disappear,
Speaker 1: suicide is always considered to be a possibility, of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: suicide is considered like almost in almost any case. Yeah really, Yeah, Well, anyway,
Speaker 1: so we'll talk about that more of the series. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to set the framework. No, that's totally cool.
Speaker 1: So back to Jim in his little sailing adventure. Apparently
Speaker 1: the last contact with the cell terra was am Jim's
Speaker 1: about cruised out of cell phone range and he was
Speaker 1: on his own, and that's expected, right, that's about the
Speaker 1: expected timeline. Yeah, and yeah, that's that's not unusual at all. Um,
Speaker 1: Presumably there was shipping traffic because, as I said, three
Speaker 1: sea lanes coming together, a lot of big poor a
Speaker 1: lot of traffic. So there were ships out there. I
Speaker 1: had no doubt about it. I'm sure they weren't whirling
Speaker 1: around like snowflakes or anything like that, but there were
Speaker 1: there were something. Oh yeah, he totally he sailed. He's
Speaker 1: sailed out there many times. But that's the that's as
Speaker 1: far as Jim's course. After that, it's pretty much unknown.
Speaker 1: It's assumed that he made it actually out to the
Speaker 1: island because a biologist named Brett Hardel was living working
Speaker 1: on Southeast Farrellin Island at the time and he reported
Speaker 1: this was after his disappearance hit the news and and
Speaker 1: afterwards he thought about it, said, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I saw his boat. Yeah, he said, he's seen a
Speaker 1: boat that might have been Jim. So he said he's
Speaker 1: seen either it was either a red or a brown hale.
Speaker 1: It was hard to tell because it was like over
Speaker 1: a mile away, so it was really hard. Jim Greece
Speaker 1: boat was had a red hole, had a red hall
Speaker 1: with kind of a white race, yeah kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And depending on the photos sun photos, it looks kind
Speaker 1: of like really bright red. Other photos it looks kind
Speaker 1: of more ketchup e colored, but you look like getting
Speaker 1: certain photos to just depends on the photo. Hard to say.
Speaker 1: But but so it either had a rhet or a
Speaker 1: brown hole. Uh. It was between southeast Froline Island and
Speaker 1: the middle fair Allone Island, which is two miles northwest.
Speaker 1: He also said he wasn't sure what direction it was
Speaker 1: going in. It was you know, again he didn't have
Speaker 1: any reason to think anything unusual. Was he was another
Speaker 1: boat on the water exactly, and so he glanced saw
Speaker 1: this boat out there, So he wasn't sure what direction
Speaker 1: it was going, and he he was thinking maybe it
Speaker 1: was going west or maybe north. He didn't have binoculars,
Speaker 1: he didn't actually spend a lot of time looking at it,
Speaker 1: and so and he also, by the way, it wasn't
Speaker 1: wearing a watch. Didn't know was the time. He said,
Speaker 1: it could have anywhere been anywhere between noon and three pm,
Speaker 1: So he didn't know, uh, And after he thought about it,
Speaker 1: and again this could be his memory playing tricks too,
Speaker 1: because I know my memory messes would be sometimes thought
Speaker 1: about it hard and that the boat mainsail was up
Speaker 1: and the jib was furled. The jib is the sail
Speaker 1: in the front, so that's the mainsail, the one in
Speaker 1: the back, and then the jib is a small triangular
Speaker 1: one up in the front. When they say furled, that
Speaker 1: means just you know, rolled up, folded up, whatever. And
Speaker 1: what is that? What does that mean? That means it's
Speaker 1: not up it's not no, I'm sorry, but like if
Speaker 1: like why would you have the jim furled? One reason
Speaker 1: I could think of is if you have if you're
Speaker 1: getting enough wind anyway, and you're single handedly and excuse me,
Speaker 1: you're single handed handing the single handing the boat. You
Speaker 1: tried to say, it is a little it is less
Speaker 1: work because you, yeah, when you got it, when you
Speaker 1: when you got attack, and say you're heading forty five
Speaker 1: degrees off the wind, when you got attack, you bring it,
Speaker 1: bring it around, and all you gotta do is just
Speaker 1: remember the duck when the main boom kind of swinging
Speaker 1: back across you, and then it will and that's it.
Speaker 1: Whereas if if you have a jib up, then what
Speaker 1: that means what you gotta do is when you attack,
Speaker 1: you gotta get up there, let the rope loose. And
Speaker 1: actually probably could do all this from the cock because
Speaker 1: I think this boat was set up for single handed sailing.
Speaker 1: I would assume, yeah, you have to let the one race. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you gotta let the one rope loose on the
Speaker 1: one side, and then when the jim comes around on
Speaker 1: the other side, you gotta take it back in and
Speaker 1: wind it up on the winch and tighten into everything.
Speaker 1: So if you're feeling a little lazy, then with the
Speaker 1: mainsail again, all you gotta do is just let that
Speaker 1: boom go boom outside and over to the other and
Speaker 1: that's it. And so you would do that if you were, like,
Speaker 1: if it were leisure and you were getting enough wind
Speaker 1: and you weren't in a hurry, and yeah, exactly, and
Speaker 1: if you didn't have any hands, and of course, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're out there with some people and you're all
Speaker 1: kind of bored, and actually that kind of stuff can
Speaker 1: be kind of fun occupied. But apparently he wasn't really
Speaker 1: into it that day. But that's okay. He wasn't a
Speaker 1: hug if that was even him, which we don't really know,
Speaker 1: do Yeah, But anyway, so Brett remembered he thought at
Speaker 1: least that the mainsail was up and the jib was furled. Therefore,
Speaker 1: he decided then he must have seen the boats starboard side,
Speaker 1: and that means that the boat must have been moving
Speaker 1: north and he saw it. So therefore, okay, it maybe
Speaker 1: it rounded southeast Firline Island was heading between the two
Speaker 1: and headed north. But again, you know, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I trust. It's not saying I don't trust Brett, but
Speaker 1: memory is a funny thing. It also could have totally
Speaker 1: been a different boat. It could have been a different boat,
Speaker 1: and it was over a mile away, so all these
Speaker 1: all these factors make me question this one just a
Speaker 1: little bit. But it sounds like it probably was his boat.
Speaker 1: But he's not the only person who came forward saying
Speaker 1: he thought he might have seen the boat. And there
Speaker 1: were other boats seeing that day. By the way that
Speaker 1: this is just on the Redway. There was another they
Speaker 1: found a sailor that was on a whale watching boat
Speaker 1: in the areas. So three sail boats that day, two
Speaker 1: white ones and one red, so that're a red one
Speaker 1: might have been Jim, but also might not would have
Speaker 1: put it in a different place. Uh huh, But it's
Speaker 1: not a how to present certain. But anyway, um, but
Speaker 1: that probably it was probably where the last sightings of it.
Speaker 1: Donna reported Jim missing to the coast Guard that night
Speaker 1: about eight thirty or so when he didn't come back again.
Speaker 1: She's in Wisconsin, but she was expecting him to call,
Speaker 1: so she calls the marina the Harbormasters of Birth. The
Speaker 1: sailboat ain't back, so she calls the coast guard and
Speaker 1: reports and missing. They started their search. Within a few hours.
Speaker 1: They had a couple of boats out. Eventually a helicopter
Speaker 1: and to see one thirty plane took off around midnight
Speaker 1: one am and they started scouring the area between the
Speaker 1: Farrell Long Islands at the Golden Gate. And of course
Speaker 1: they had like you know, radar and stuff like that
Speaker 1: in infra red, so you know, there really wasn't a
Speaker 1: purpose to going out and in the dark. You use
Speaker 1: things beside your eyeballs, Yeah, you kind of have to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But they were out there looking and of course they
Speaker 1: didn't find anything. They kept adding resources to the search.
Speaker 1: They searched for about five days and yeah, and they
Speaker 1: kept adding more resources to it. Eventually they scoured the
Speaker 1: California coast from the Oregon border south to about Santa Barbara,
Speaker 1: which is quite a long stretch. Yeah, and voters were
Speaker 1: alerted to look for wreckage and they did. There see
Speaker 1: one thirty planes flew grid patterns like further and further
Speaker 1: out from shore. And I've got I've got a map
Speaker 1: here some of the some of the grids that they did,
Speaker 1: you guys want to see in this one and these
Speaker 1: are some of the grids. It's just that they did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you guys can see that now you can't see
Speaker 1: it out there. But but you can hear it, but
Speaker 1: you can hear it, you can totally hear it. But
Speaker 1: they flew a lot of great patterns, uh, and they
Speaker 1: pretty comprehensively, you know, covered the area. Didn't find anything,
Speaker 1: which I mean that seems unusual to anything. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: because at the boat sank. Yeah, there's floats exactly. Everything
Speaker 1: on the boat is designed to float. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: I know. That's what they call flots of me yea hopefully,
Speaker 1: which is saying sailories for floaty bits. And there should
Speaker 1: have been at least a couple of boat Christians or something.
Speaker 1: And when they were out there, they spotted other wreckage
Speaker 1: that was from other boats or the ships. They found
Speaker 1: other stuff, just nothing from his boat, which is nothing
Speaker 1: at all. So they were able to find small objects
Speaker 1: floating in the in the ocean, but nothing from his
Speaker 1: boat at all, which was a little weird. I think
Speaker 1: they covered something like forty square miles of ocean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: quite a bit. But meantime, Jim Gray's high tech friends
Speaker 1: have heard about all this. They're starting to getting involved
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna really shorten this down quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Microsoft provided pretty much unlimited funding from the private searches
Speaker 1: that they did, and they did a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: including flying over with airplanes and helicopters and stuff, and
Speaker 1: eventually I think his wife hired a ship that had
Speaker 1: site scanning sonar and all kinds of resources like that
Speaker 1: to scan the entire ocean bottom and everything in the
Speaker 1: air where they could. Yeah, there is a continental shelf
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah. Where was James Cameron? Yeah, I he
Speaker 1: must have been awesomewhere making a movie. Yeah, Microsoft and Google,
Speaker 1: though they worked together, they get their hands on as
Speaker 1: much satellite imagery as they could. The Canadian Space Agency
Speaker 1: diverted satellite equipped with radar to fly over the search
Speaker 1: area to private satellites from Digital Globe and g OI
Speaker 1: were also repositioned. That's crazy. Yeah, I know, that's a
Speaker 1: lot of resources. NASA sent an e R two plane,
Speaker 1: which I guess is a kind of like a commercial
Speaker 1: spy plane. It's a trainer that they use and yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's a quickly that's like a lot of resources.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys know that. When I mean, if
Speaker 1: my thing that I expect at least this kind of
Speaker 1: reaction totally totally when they want to be Ye Devon
Speaker 1: from thicking sideways is missing. Oh my god, called Google,
Speaker 1: called Amazon. Call, Yeah, he's down at the Yeah, noil
Speaker 1: mobile art will totally get it to people. I placed
Speaker 1: twenty five cents for the search start a kick Starter. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But of course at this point though, they have a
Speaker 1: huge amount of satellite imagery to look for, to look through,
Speaker 1: I should say, uh so, some of the mucky MUCKs
Speaker 1: at Amazon decided to because of course they were involved
Speaker 1: in this too, they decided to use this Amazon service
Speaker 1: called Mechanical Turk, which is my favorite mechanical Yeah. When
Speaker 1: I was when I first moved back to Portland and
Speaker 1: was like super underemployed, I did Mechanical Turking for many Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just like the history of the name. I love
Speaker 1: the history of the name too. But yeah, I was,
Speaker 1: like I was, it's a pretty good service overall, but
Speaker 1: definitely for something like this where you can just get
Speaker 1: a ton of volunteers to just our stuff. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what this is for. Is like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like when you have something to do
Speaker 1: that it requires a lot of repetition, but you don't
Speaker 1: want to sit down and actually build machines to do
Speaker 1: it or write a fantastic amount of computer software well,
Speaker 1: and it would take way longer than it would to
Speaker 1: just exactly to the public. It also turns out that
Speaker 1: machines are only so good. They will do what you
Speaker 1: tell them, but they won't make any leaps. Have you?
Speaker 1: Did you hear this stuff about all of this imagery
Speaker 1: from space that they were having some software applications scan
Speaker 1: looking for new planets and stuff like that, or or
Speaker 1: the looking for changes in the intensity of stars, because
Speaker 1: then they could tell us something had passed in front
Speaker 1: of it, like a planet or or whatever. So the
Speaker 1: software is returning nothing, basically nothing, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: this is a little weird. They give it to all
Speaker 1: these volunteers, and these volunteers start finding thousands of these
Speaker 1: instances because the computer it was doing what it was
Speaker 1: told and it wasn't saying, well let me check five
Speaker 1: you know however much ago, and so it's that. So
Speaker 1: it's always better sometimes with things like this to actually
Speaker 1: have a person to do it who does pattern recognition
Speaker 1: much better than a machine. Well, this is the sort
Speaker 1: of thing also that it would have been really nice
Speaker 1: to have been able like two thousand sevens little too early,
Speaker 1: but if it happened today, like they would mobilize Reddit
Speaker 1: and web sleuths. Right, those are two communities where if
Speaker 1: you just say, hey, we're trying to find this person,
Speaker 1: here's like literally millions of images. Please you guys go
Speaker 1: through this and see if you can find any anomalies.
Speaker 1: Those two communities together are so amazing. I mean, to
Speaker 1: a fault, Like oftentimes there's a lot of false stuff
Speaker 1: that happens out of that. We've talked about this long,
Speaker 1: but I mean that's the sort of thing that would
Speaker 1: have been great in this situation as well. But I
Speaker 1: think the Amazon thinking to use mechanical Turk community for
Speaker 1: this sort of thing is phenomenal, made a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. So they dimmied up all these thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of images and just parceled out. They put out
Speaker 1: a call for volunteers and they got like twelve volunteers,
Speaker 1: which is pretty good. It spent a weekend looking to
Speaker 1: you about thirty thousand square miles of water. Then they
Speaker 1: came up with a few possible settings. Uh, and then
Speaker 1: of course they had you know, again, this is where
Speaker 1: it's it's good to have high tech buddies involved because
Speaker 1: the problem is it's the pictures were taken like well
Speaker 1: it's Monday morning. The pictures were taken last Friday or
Speaker 1: Thursday or whatever. So so they got to use these
Speaker 1: digital wizards come in and say, okay, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna like write this software in a real huge
Speaker 1: her rate to chart the ocean currents and the winds
Speaker 1: and everything else, you know, and figure out where those
Speaker 1: things would be now. But alas, even without that, when
Speaker 1: they got out to check out the few possibilities they
Speaker 1: found in the photographs, there was nothing there. Um, And
Speaker 1: I'm really kind of understating the complexity of the search
Speaker 1: and all the technical expertise it was brought to bear.
Speaker 1: It's a really good article and Wired I sent you
Speaker 1: guys a link to it. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys read it. I love Wired articles on things like
Speaker 1: this really, I mean, like, oh yeah, but they're really
Speaker 1: well written all the time, and they go into such
Speaker 1: incredible detail. But I also still feel like they totally
Speaker 1: understand everything they're saying. You know, it's rare to find
Speaker 1: a Wired article on something that we're covering, but like
Speaker 1: when we do. Anytime any of you links to Wired it,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yes, that is the one. If I like,
Speaker 1: if I only have to read one, it's going to
Speaker 1: be that one. What is the other one that that
Speaker 1: does a really good job that I like? Is it
Speaker 1: is Motherboard under Vice? Now? Is that motherboard is a
Speaker 1: website and they have all these long form and I
Speaker 1: think they're on I think they're part of Vice now.
Speaker 1: But I always like there's because it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: It's just like laid out so much detail. There. There
Speaker 1: was the Lizan Chris Kramer's one. I think that was.
Speaker 1: I think it was. I think it might have even
Speaker 1: been wired. It's really a lot, but anyway, I just yeah,
Speaker 1: I think definitely if you guys are interested in this article, now,
Speaker 1: that's a good article and it's it's got lots and
Speaker 1: less of detail about the search and all the various
Speaker 1: people that were involved. But the point is for me
Speaker 1: in our story here is that when the Coastguard devotes
Speaker 1: the resources that they did, and they devoted a lot
Speaker 1: of resources to look for Jim's boat for a single person.
Speaker 1: By the way, the coast Guard, they're they're good at
Speaker 1: what they do. Yeah, like it's their jobs. It's like
Speaker 1: they have one job exactly. I mean, those guys are
Speaker 1: really the coast. Yeah, yeah, there, and I guess that's
Speaker 1: two jobs. Yeah, but then they're also joined by what Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, NASA,
Speaker 1: you know, and it granted we're talking about the two
Speaker 1: thousand seven versions of these things, not the two thousand
Speaker 1: and seventeen versions of these things, but still into two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, they are giants. They are, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they were giant back then. And even with all of that,
Speaker 1: they just didn't find literally a single that didn't find squat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't, not even like an arm floaty, not even
Speaker 1: an arm floaty, not even not even a beer cozy.
Speaker 1: Yeah it seems crazy, Yeah, not a thing. Doesn't that
Speaker 1: seem crazy to you? Steve? Well, yeah, it's a little puzzling.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it seem crazy to you? Joel? It does seem
Speaker 1: a little crazy? Yeah, a little bit. So what the
Speaker 1: hell happened? What happened to Jim Graha? That's tenacious? Really?
Speaker 1: How could they have vanished without a trace? Because I
Speaker 1: gotta admit that's a little spooky. I know it ain't Halloween,
Speaker 1: but it's still a little spooky. Aliens I like it. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: they're done, not done properly today for that for that statement, true, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about some theories. Um, I'm gonna put these
Speaker 1: out of no particular order, really them not from bad
Speaker 1: to good or good to bad. But starting from the front,
Speaker 1: let's talk about suicide very briefly, because I don't think
Speaker 1: this is a good theory. I agree, Um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just don't think so. There was everybody knew him, said now,
Speaker 1: it didn't seem to fit his personality, the type of
Speaker 1: guy that he was, Yeah, not at all. And he
Speaker 1: showed no signs of depression. Actually actually was you know,
Speaker 1: very active and had very with it and YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, no, I don't, I don't. I think
Speaker 1: we could just ignore this one. Another one that's been
Speaker 1: put forward by some of some of Jim's follow sailors.
Speaker 1: This actually did appear in a few articles was Orca's.
Speaker 1: They thought that perhaps some Orca's killer whales, Yeah, killer whales. Uh,
Speaker 1: the stook the tenacious for a dolphin. But actually yeah,
Speaker 1: one of their fellow voters did just say he had
Speaker 1: a near miss with an orca at one time. But
Speaker 1: I think probably it might have been the orc It
Speaker 1: was just playing chicken with him because I don't think yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they can be Okay, did either of you? God I did.
Speaker 1: This was a movie from like the seventies or eighties,
Speaker 1: and it may well have just been called Orca. But
Speaker 1: there was a killer whale movie where an orca chased
Speaker 1: a boat and eventually sank it to take revenge inge
Speaker 1: out on it. And I think these people saw that movie.
Speaker 1: There's there's only as far as a wonderable movie. By
Speaker 1: the way, Yeah, I only know one documented incident of
Speaker 1: an orca attacking a whale and sinking it, which is
Speaker 1: in ninety seventy two near the Galapagos Islands. And but
Speaker 1: but otherwise attacked by wild killer whales on humans, I
Speaker 1: mean the ones that the ones that are in captivity,
Speaker 1: that's a whole different ball of wax. Well, yeah, sometimes
Speaker 1: they kill their trainers, yeah exactly, But the actual wild ones, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's extremely rare, I mean really really rare. Well,
Speaker 1: their prey is like half the size if that of
Speaker 1: a boat, Like whales, aren't that, yeah, you know, one
Speaker 1: to two percent the size? Yeah, they're not that Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think actually, I think a boat of
Speaker 1: forty boat is probably almost about the size of I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm sorry, We're gonna get like a million emails.
Speaker 1: I don't know how big orcas are, but I would
Speaker 1: say it's closer to the size of an orca than
Speaker 1: it is something that an orca would kill. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You want to say, if you want to sing that
Speaker 1: thing as an orca, you can't pick up an orca
Speaker 1: tire iron and it just hammer on it with your head,
Speaker 1: your forehead on it. Yeah, pretty good teeth. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's it's silly. Yeah, I think it's absurd.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're silly. Theories Yeah, most right here
Speaker 1: Momobie Dick, the musical Mobe Dick. It's a whale of
Speaker 1: a tail. I never heard good singing, but yeah, good singing,
Speaker 1: but no good singing, but no contract. Another theory that's
Speaker 1: out there. Or rogue wave you got you've heard of
Speaker 1: these things that the waves do go rogue. Um we
Speaker 1: talked about that in a lighthouse thing once, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: many many Joe's stories, because Joe's stories always take place
Speaker 1: at sea. Oh yeah, just about yeah, yeah, so roague. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever happened bad childhood, it goes rogue. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, nobody else reported any you know,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of traffic in the area. Nobody
Speaker 1: else reported a rogue wave out there. But well, the
Speaker 1: thing is about roal hook waves is that they're unexpected
Speaker 1: and they don't have to be extremely long lived. I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's something that's coming in off of the out
Speaker 1: off of the continental shelf, is looking for that word,
Speaker 1: and it's his boat, and then before it goes to
Speaker 1: another gets spotted by another boat, that's entirely possible which
Speaker 1: point his boat if it was under sail or under motor.
Speaker 1: Under it's a diesel engine, Yeah, yeah, suddenly, god, I really,
Speaker 1: But if it was under motor, it would have just
Speaker 1: under power. It would have just kept going, yeah, which
Speaker 1: would explain a lot of things. Yeah, And actually it
Speaker 1: was a it's a ballast to sail boats, so you know,
Speaker 1: it's even if it had actually turned turtle, which is
Speaker 1: sailories were just turning all the way over, it's gonna
Speaker 1: come back up. Yeah, it's got a four time keel
Speaker 1: on the bottom of it. This kind of boat is
Speaker 1: meant to be really hard to what is it when
Speaker 1: they call when you thank you leans way over Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's actually really hard to do their boat for
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And so yeah, I'm not really
Speaker 1: buying the roadway. I mean, the roadwave could have swept
Speaker 1: Jim overboard, but I think the boat probably would have
Speaker 1: survived it. But he was wearing a harness. He was
Speaker 1: wearing her harness. He said that to his wife. I
Speaker 1: have I have told my wife I was using a
Speaker 1: lot of safety equipment. Yes, honey, I am wearing my
Speaker 1: safety glasses. That's right now. You asked for pictures. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this stuff just sort of took a detour around my
Speaker 1: safety glasses and better stuff of my It went through him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the road wave, I'm not buying it. Another another serious
Speaker 1: out there that his fellow boaters again put out once
Speaker 1: some reporters will buying and asked them what they thought
Speaker 1: had happened. Was that, Yeah, maybe he just checked out,
Speaker 1: decided to start a new life. They thought they thought
Speaker 1: he was probably down in Bajau just drinking Margaret read
Speaker 1: is and you know, reading the papers about himself and
Speaker 1: having a good laugh about the whole thing. And maybe
Speaker 1: he repeinted his boat, uh painted black white whatever, and
Speaker 1: just changed his name and he's you know, even living,
Speaker 1: even living today and somewhere in Mexico. I kind of
Speaker 1: like this theory. I tend to like theories like this
Speaker 1: because it's like the least painful for everyone. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait till Joe gets to the end. I
Speaker 1: have some thoughts on this. I actually like this one.
Speaker 1: He liked to say. Okay, well, yeah, I mean and
Speaker 1: he's certainly he's Jim is or was a clever guy,
Speaker 1: depending on whether he's alive or dead, and a very
Speaker 1: smart guy. If anybody could have snucked away, pooled everybody
Speaker 1: and changed his name and been in hiding forever, you know,
Speaker 1: it probably would have been him. And there is some
Speaker 1: support on on Reddit believe it or not. In maywelve,
Speaker 1: which was three months after Jim Gray was declared legally
Speaker 1: dead because it's a five year five year waiting period
Speaker 1: in California, apparently, Yeah, and I used by the name
Speaker 1: of quote Tom Gold unquote posted the message saying that
Speaker 1: he quote made it appear to my family that I
Speaker 1: died on boat trip in the Pacific unquote. And he
Speaker 1: also said that he was quote dead dead in the
Speaker 1: United States unquote, and that he was living in Kenya
Speaker 1: under a false name. This guy could have just pulled
Speaker 1: the Rebecca Cormian. Yeah. I will say Jim does not
Speaker 1: seem like the kind of guy who have referred to
Speaker 1: his expensive sailboat as a boating trip a boat trip. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like he would have said, like I faked
Speaker 1: a death on my sailing. Maybe maybe if if Tom
Speaker 1: Gold was indeed claimed, wasn't he trying to pretend to
Speaker 1: be Jim Gray Although he didn't actually literally claim to
Speaker 1: be Jim Gray. He maybe it may have been channeling
Speaker 1: a different narrative boys, so that that would explain that. Okay,
Speaker 1: But there was a there was a rhetor eye that
Speaker 1: it rehetoria hddordye whatever. Yeah, this guy actually did a
Speaker 1: little research. Again, he didn't say it was Jim Gray.
Speaker 1: Tom Gold did not say that, but he compared his
Speaker 1: statements to the circumstances around various voting disappearances and came
Speaker 1: up with, guess what, Jim Gray. It matched that case,
Speaker 1: and no other one really matched as well. So it
Speaker 1: was Tom Gold actually Jim Gray and the Tom the
Speaker 1: account that used the name Tom Gold. They referred to
Speaker 1: it as a throw. It was created and then disappeared.
Speaker 1: I love you guys so much. Not everybody is a
Speaker 1: Reddit aficionado, DEVI like, will you tell me the booty churms?
Speaker 1: But everybody knews ridded. No, I just like that. You're like,
Speaker 1: I think they referred to it as a throwaway account.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what the article say. No, I know.
Speaker 1: It's just the number of accounts on riddit that are
Speaker 1: like throwaway one to twelve is like astonishing because everybody
Speaker 1: has a throwaway account. See, I know That's why I
Speaker 1: love you guys. You got to throw away account? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that kind of like a throwaway piece at the
Speaker 1: cops carry Yeah? Yeah, same thing. Can't could be ditched,
Speaker 1: It can't be traced you Yeah, actually is? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like it. I gotta get any one of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: back to our friends. Yeah. As far as I know,
Speaker 1: he never posted again, at least not under that name.
Speaker 1: The thing about it is is, like, you know, you
Speaker 1: guys might disagree. I think that Jim Gray, excuse me,
Speaker 1: had nothing to gain by starting over again in a
Speaker 1: foreign country with nothing, although maybe he would have thought
Speaker 1: of it as a huge adventure. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: you know what he walked away from? What is what
Speaker 1: he's walking away from is he He had his wife, friends, family,
Speaker 1: he had his new grandson, he had money, he had
Speaker 1: he liked his career. He loved his career from everything
Speaker 1: I've heard, uh, And he had a house on Telegraph Hill. Hello,
Speaker 1: I mean do you want I'm just gonna go. And
Speaker 1: I just all I want to say about this is that, like,
Speaker 1: no matter how good things look on paper, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: never know what an individuals experiencing. Yeah, I mean you
Speaker 1: guys know this. Like I just I quit my job recently,
Speaker 1: and it was like I was getting paid way more
Speaker 1: than I should have been getting paid it and like
Speaker 1: all of these different things. And I quit my job
Speaker 1: because like on paper, it was perfect, it was awesome,
Speaker 1: it was a really sweet deal. But I just hated it.
Speaker 1: And I would say that that there there's no way
Speaker 1: to be able to tell as an outsider. Even probably
Speaker 1: his wife probably as long because he probably wasn't wouldn't
Speaker 1: express that to her. There's no way for somebody who
Speaker 1: isn't him to know exactly what was going on in
Speaker 1: his life and when he was feeling. And maybe it
Speaker 1: is I mean, you know, we don't know. He might
Speaker 1: have had a private account that he had what like
Speaker 1: a cool million dollars that he took out in cash,
Speaker 1: and he took with him to Mexico and he's been
Speaker 1: living large. You know, you go to Thailand a million
Speaker 1: dollars left last you a lifetime. I mean yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean really, there are so many places, so we don't
Speaker 1: know for sure. I'm not saying this is like a
Speaker 1: perfect theory that like, but I will say that I
Speaker 1: agree that on paper his life seems absolutely phenomenal and perfect,
Speaker 1: but you just never really know, you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say his life was effect he had boat. I mean,
Speaker 1: perfect is like a four hundred Okay, on paper, his
Speaker 1: life is pretty dang good. Yeah, it's pretty good. But
Speaker 1: you know, I guess it's unless you live his life
Speaker 1: and you are the exact same human as him, it's
Speaker 1: hard to tell. That's why I liked this theory. I
Speaker 1: also like this theory because it means he's like just
Speaker 1: still alive somewhere, like having a good time. So Devin, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really kind of upset. Are you hacking my email?
Speaker 1: Because I wrote all this out and you just stole
Speaker 1: the entire thing. You wrote out the story about me
Speaker 1: quitting my job. But I was actually going down the
Speaker 1: same road. But I mean I think I was going
Speaker 1: to say, and you touched on this briefly, is that
Speaker 1: if he indeed was fed up with it all, and
Speaker 1: we've all sat around and said, you know, God, I'm
Speaker 1: tired of this crap, well he could have very easily
Speaker 1: have said, you know, in a year, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: And every week he went down to the A T M.
Speaker 1: And he got three hundred bucks in cash, and every
Speaker 1: day for a year he did that. And I'm not
Speaker 1: going to do the bath on that because we got
Speaker 1: out well for doing that kind of math off the
Speaker 1: back of my real quick. But the point is he
Speaker 1: could have a huge wad of cash sitting in the
Speaker 1: hall of that boat. So when he took off, he
Speaker 1: paid you know, somebody a hundred gray or had he
Speaker 1: would have had a hundred grand. Yeah, he'd had a
Speaker 1: bunch of money on him, paid him, like you said,
Speaker 1: to do whatever, and then just took off because a
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars is a whole lot of pacos, And
Speaker 1: he just goes and does whatever he wants, and it's
Speaker 1: it's completely it's a lack of stress at that point.
Speaker 1: I mean, his life may have been unbearably stressful, and
Speaker 1: you go, you know what, I'm gonna get up when
Speaker 1: I want to get up. I'm gonna go sleep and
Speaker 1: I want to sleep. I'm gonna drink as much as
Speaker 1: I want or eat as much as I want. Nobody's
Speaker 1: gonna tell me I don't have anything to hold me back,
Speaker 1: and just I'm only gonna make it for five more years,
Speaker 1: but hey, they're gonna be Scott free. Five years could
Speaker 1: be um. So I just I don't think it's as
Speaker 1: dismissable as you do because it looks it, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it is good. Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: guy Kawasaki, who's this like, he's this guy who goes
Speaker 1: around and speaks all the time, but he was like
Speaker 1: one of the Steve Jobs Apple and innovators. You know.
Speaker 1: He talks a lot about his time in early Apple
Speaker 1: and how it was just like this. They flew first
Speaker 1: class everywhere. It was this free for all. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I don't know that his life. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's hard. This is one of those theories right where
Speaker 1: it's I'm just I keep arguing both sides, but yeah,
Speaker 1: account it counts for a few things, you know, and
Speaker 1: I probably didn't mention that there was. He had two
Speaker 1: radios on the boat. It still did not manage to
Speaker 1: get a discress a distress call out if he was
Speaker 1: thinking or anything like that. Didn't manage to deploy his
Speaker 1: life raft, which I think what he had, it didn't
Speaker 1: He didn't have the automatic the kind of deploy and
Speaker 1: automatically to flight. When he hit the water, he had
Speaker 1: to kind of had to pull it out. And yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did not know, not even that sick a cord
Speaker 1: to it and actually like stop it with your foot,
Speaker 1: you know, use a pump it up now and stuff.
Speaker 1: So and then his EPERB didn't go off, which is
Speaker 1: this thing that goes off when it hits when you
Speaker 1: rote sinks, it deploys when it hits the water, and
Speaker 1: little signal. Right, yeah, it sends out a signal that
Speaker 1: didn't go off, and a good records and so the
Speaker 1: whole suicide thing would explain all of that, explain to
Speaker 1: lack of distress called wreckageper signal everything the other life Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's an explain that though. But there are other
Speaker 1: things that might explain that too. But this is this
Speaker 1: is the easy one to explain on that because it
Speaker 1: explains why none of that stuff was triggered. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's is Yeah, it does. And another one that might
Speaker 1: explain that is our next theory. So I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this one for me to leave you
Speaker 1: to start in your life. I'm going to give it
Speaker 1: a fail, but a soft fail, like a D. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I give it a D minus, like an almost failing
Speaker 1: but like still kind of passing. Uh. And it's I
Speaker 1: think it's possible a two and a half to five stars.
Speaker 1: That's a thinking sideways. And I mean and it could
Speaker 1: be too that, you know. I mean, he had so
Speaker 1: much to live for you as his new grandson, but
Speaker 1: maybe the new grandson finally came in along and then
Speaker 1: the kid was just ugly. He just decided, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: not cut out to be a grandpa. I'm really But
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna give it. The next theory is he
Speaker 1: had some sort of accident or something that incapacitated him,
Speaker 1: like a heart attack or a stroke. He fell and
Speaker 1: smashed his head and then that was like just basically
Speaker 1: didn't quite kill him, but it knocked him out for
Speaker 1: a long period of time, long enough, but maybe just
Speaker 1: fell overboard, you know, I mean, any one of these things.
Speaker 1: The tenasitions was equipped with an autopilot, and I pretty
Speaker 1: good that Gray would have probably at some point during
Speaker 1: the day have gotten bored with steering the boat and
Speaker 1: turned the auto pilot on and so. And obviously if
Speaker 1: he wanted to say, go below and go to the head,
Speaker 1: maybe make some tea, he would he would have to
Speaker 1: set the autopilot. And so what if the auto pilot
Speaker 1: was on and he becomes incapacitated for some reason, like
Speaker 1: I said, a heart attack, whatever, and the boat was
Speaker 1: just to say, set to go west and it just
Speaker 1: keeps on going west. Yeah. Yeah, you know, someday this
Speaker 1: is we're gonna be talking about this once driverless car
Speaker 1: has become a thing. Driving to the Grand Canyon, well,
Speaker 1: the car was programed to just drive west. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know exactly. So yeah, I mean I could just see
Speaker 1: that the final pull one over and they'll have a
Speaker 1: mummy beyond the wheel. They found that they actually found
Speaker 1: the Saale boat. Just last year. They had this German
Speaker 1: guy who was down in the Yeah below it actually
Speaker 1: was momified. Yeah did you see that article? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was creepy as hell had dried him out like
Speaker 1: a prune. Uh yeah, he was just touched over his
Speaker 1: chart table and yeah, well I would say, you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of idea of a heart attack or a
Speaker 1: stroke or something like that. Again, if if we're talking
Speaker 1: about somebody who's in the tech sector in the early
Speaker 1: two thousands, he you know, he's working for Microsoft. He's
Speaker 1: apparently like super brilliant. It is possible also that it
Speaker 1: was super super stressful, and he know it's possible he
Speaker 1: just you know, keeled over on on accident. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: or maybe even like I know, his motor wasn't running.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, like even like a don't
Speaker 1: know that the engine was running, you can do bolt
Speaker 1: at the same time. So I mean that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that I've always been like, Well, he may
Speaker 1: not have been up there just using the sale. He
Speaker 1: may have just said screw it, turned on the engine,
Speaker 1: maybe turn on the engine and turn on the out
Speaker 1: of pilot you know, and everything, and just had the
Speaker 1: whole kid, you know thing going and just said I'm
Speaker 1: going to take a nap, you know or whatever and
Speaker 1: have a drink. Yeah. Yeah, and then he has a
Speaker 1: stroke and bam, next thing you know, well, you know
Speaker 1: he's dead in his boat. As a thousand miles away
Speaker 1: from shore, that would put the boat pretty solidly outside
Speaker 1: of any kind of search area, right, Well, it depends
Speaker 1: on when they started searching and how far out they
Speaker 1: went and the time. It depends on a lot of factors.
Speaker 1: I was going to talk about that a little bit
Speaker 1: more later. It just depends on how far out they
Speaker 1: flew in searches. But it explains why no trace of
Speaker 1: the boat was found because well, it didn't sink, so
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be any flotsam, there wouldn't be any distress
Speaker 1: signal or anything like that. Eventually there would be flotsam,
Speaker 1: but by that point, no woudy, you'll be looking for
Speaker 1: it all by that time too. Assuming the boat goes
Speaker 1: out of say a thousand or two miles into the
Speaker 1: Pacific and then sinks, well the plots are making to
Speaker 1: wind up at the California coast. Most likely not likely
Speaker 1: at all. But of course it could be that the
Speaker 1: boat would just sail across the Pacific without mishap like like,
Speaker 1: that's kind of unlikely. Uh, These kind of the kind
Speaker 1: of Autopiloti's got there's two kinds of autopilots that you
Speaker 1: can get in your sail boat. One is the kind
Speaker 1: that uses no power. It uses like a vein, like
Speaker 1: a wind vein, and you know, the kind of talking
Speaker 1: about yeah, yeah and so somehow yeah and so. What
Speaker 1: that does is that maintains that maintains your heading relative
Speaker 1: to the wind. So if the wind is coming straight
Speaker 1: from the north and your head in the west, it's
Speaker 1: ninety degrees and then the wind shifts, say forty five degrees,
Speaker 1: while your heading is gonna shift forty five degrees, but
Speaker 1: it's gonna basically keep keeping in the same ankle relative
Speaker 1: angle relative to the wind. The other kind is what
Speaker 1: he had on the Tenacious, was the electrical electronic kind
Speaker 1: where you can set a compass bearing and then what
Speaker 1: it will do is it will actually it's connected to
Speaker 1: the rudder the main mast and everything, and so it
Speaker 1: will turn the rudder and make sure to keep you
Speaker 1: going in the right direction. And if the wind shifts,
Speaker 1: it will actually let out row up or pull rope
Speaker 1: in or what or whatever. Yes, very fancy, a little
Speaker 1: harder on the batteries, I mean, so you know, if
Speaker 1: he did have the diesel going when he had his
Speaker 1: accident or whatever it was, his mishap, then obviously the
Speaker 1: autopilot is going to keep going a lot longer because
Speaker 1: otherwise the autopilot is going to drain the battery. And
Speaker 1: I don't know how quickly, you know. Actually I actually
Speaker 1: called a sailing place here in town and they were
Speaker 1: busy or promised to call me back, and they didn't.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I know, surprised, but there I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you that how long would your battery go for?
Speaker 1: And probably not that long because listen, I've been on
Speaker 1: houseboats where the refrigerator, dang your drained the batteries overnight.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, I mean they're they're typically the equivalent of
Speaker 1: three to six car batteries linked together. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I and again I don't I don't think that
Speaker 1: the autopilot would have been nearly as big of a
Speaker 1: drain on the batteries of a a refrigerator. But it's still
Speaker 1: would have a little radio probably, yeah, And apparently a
Speaker 1: lot of it depends on just conditions. Uh. If if,
Speaker 1: for example, it's just a steady light wind and everything
Speaker 1: like that, the autopilot doesn't have to do not to
Speaker 1: do much, but if on the other hand, of the
Speaker 1: winds gusting changing all the time, it's it's just working constantly.
Speaker 1: It's gonna train your battery quickly. Then again, though, if
Speaker 1: you turn on your diesel and your diesel is going'm
Speaker 1: recharging the battery, then hey, you could actually go for
Speaker 1: a couple of days, maybe several days. Maybe. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I gotta get the one maybe like a C plus yeah,
Speaker 1: C plus B minus something like that. Yeah, uh, maybe
Speaker 1: even a B. I don't know, So I think I
Speaker 1: think be you're getting into a much higher than a
Speaker 1: maybe range there. Yeah, you're getting on a weird curve. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would say a C is like a maybe a
Speaker 1: b's like a probably a like like two or three
Speaker 1: quarter stars. Yeah, i'd say this one like a generation
Speaker 1: why kind of Yeah, reading what I said the two
Speaker 1: and a half was us very confused. Somebody's gotta like,
Speaker 1: like publish a table that's got a conversion table for
Speaker 1: all the different podcasts in their rating systems. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: what's next next? This is another theory that the coast
Speaker 1: Guard had they actually checked this one now, which is
Speaker 1: that he could have been run over by a freighter,
Speaker 1: which does happen. I mean yes, but yeah, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of traffic. Like I said,
Speaker 1: there's actually there's four major pote ports in San Francisco Bay.
Speaker 1: There's like San Francisco, and there's the big ones a
Speaker 1: couple more, and then there's what else. There's like Sacramento
Speaker 1: and and there's stock there's a whole boatload of them
Speaker 1: up and down the coastline. Yeah. But but just in
Speaker 1: the bay or through the bay, there's six ports there.
Speaker 1: H So that's a huge amount of ship traffic coming
Speaker 1: and going and so, and it's not unheard of for
Speaker 1: a big ship to run a smaller one. Of course,
Speaker 1: the rule is the smaller ship has to make way. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're the more agile of the two. So little
Speaker 1: ship get out of way, big ship keep going through.
Speaker 1: That's how it happened. There's a hundred percent of the
Speaker 1: time these things remind me of that story where it's
Speaker 1: like the U. S. Navy ship and the what turns
Speaker 1: out to be a lighthouse. Yeah, we are the U. S.
Speaker 1: Navy and they're like, okay, we're a lighthouse, so it's
Speaker 1: your choice. Yeah. That always reminds me of this. I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. Yeah, there's but speaking but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: if speaking of the U. S. Navy though, I mean
Speaker 1: the US NABE just recently had proved it it was
Speaker 1: having a hard time avoiding itself avoiding collisions too. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've heard about those two well publicized incidents, yea, extremely
Speaker 1: well pubblicized. And apparently other people have a hard time
Speaker 1: avoiding huge ships because there's even a book written about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have heard of that one,
Speaker 1: How to Avoid Chots, How to Avoid Huge Ships. It's
Speaker 1: on Amazon. It's got him four views. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: obviously a very important time Bucks or something silly. I
Speaker 1: think it's cheap and you get it used for like Bucks,
Speaker 1: but I think brand new, it's like two fifty something
Speaker 1: like that. The book version is ten dollars. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the big ships is supposed to have radar on them.
Speaker 1: Of course they should have been able to see him
Speaker 1: on radar, but that assumes somebody is actually watching the
Speaker 1: radar set. Yeah, I don't feel like, yeah they don't. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: having worked on a cruise ship, I shouldn't probably say this.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it anyway, Like I said, I've I've
Speaker 1: said this before I was friends with the first mate,
Speaker 1: and you sometimes you'd go up to the bridge and
Speaker 1: you're just getting a conversation with everybody up there, and
Speaker 1: suddenly you realize the dude who's supposed to be watching
Speaker 1: the radar sitting there talking to you, like maintaining eye contact,
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, you're supposed to be looking at that.
Speaker 1: We gotta run into an iceberger, Like what happening so
Speaker 1: that the speakers it'll make a noise. Yeah, I mean well,
Speaker 1: and also the a lot of a lot of the
Speaker 1: shipping companies kind of understaffed their boats. I guess sailors
Speaker 1: cost money, sure, yeah, and so why do that when
Speaker 1: you can get a mechanical turk to do it exactly?
Speaker 1: So having it like, you know, having a guy stationed
Speaker 1: on the bow looking out front, that's not necessarily, yeah,
Speaker 1: not necessarily. It's having a guy on the bridge looking
Speaker 1: at you know, looking at the radars and maybe not
Speaker 1: but maybe he was in the head or it does
Speaker 1: seem like it would be hard for Jim to have
Speaker 1: missed a ship that big. It does seem like it
Speaker 1: would be hard. We had an accident. I was about
Speaker 1: to say, unless this runs in tandem with like the
Speaker 1: last theory. But then, but then it doesn't explain why
Speaker 1: none of the body floaty bits, the floaty body bits
Speaker 1: didn't show up there. He could have. He could have,
Speaker 1: if it's a combination, least there he could have gone
Speaker 1: let's say four or five miles out and then got
Speaker 1: run over. And then all the flots them and the
Speaker 1: bits and pieces they're gonna spread around, they're not going
Speaker 1: to be in search area. Or maybe you know, or
Speaker 1: maybe it's you know, he gets plowed over, even not
Speaker 1: even that far out, he gets plowed over, and maybe
Speaker 1: it wasn't dead of a heart attack or anything, but
Speaker 1: he was just high on shrewms or something like that.
Speaker 1: You know, you made that up. You got a beard
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Yeah, you have a beard. You live
Speaker 1: in Portland's good point? Okay, Um, but yeah, maybe he
Speaker 1: got he gets plowed over, and all the floaty bits
Speaker 1: that would have floated get all sliced and diced up
Speaker 1: in the props and freighter and so they don't float.
Speaker 1: So maybe that I don't it seems like at least
Speaker 1: one would, yeah, but yeah, still, it does seem unlikely
Speaker 1: that neither vessel noticed the other again, it still happens.
Speaker 1: Like I said that the US freaking Navy big ship
Speaker 1: has a collision with a big freaking like you know,
Speaker 1: container ship. How the hell could that have happened? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm still physics. I guess I'm pretty sure some has
Speaker 1: ruled in that particular situation. Huh. But was all over
Speaker 1: that they did? Actually, they checked all the records of
Speaker 1: every ship that came and left the harbor on that day,
Speaker 1: and they even some of them and I had left
Speaker 1: the harbor and they were clear across the ocean back
Speaker 1: in Japan or wherever, And they actually had local authorities
Speaker 1: go check their bows just to look for scratches and
Speaker 1: red paint things like that, and nothing their holes red.
Speaker 1: Yeah noticed, Yeah, I mean you know it's a ship's
Speaker 1: crew actually to avoid liability, they might paint overall scratches
Speaker 1: in the red paint and stuff like that too. I mean,
Speaker 1: so it's it's even though I could say this to
Speaker 1: be kind of unlikely. Yeah, but doesn't it seem like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you would check like a little below the
Speaker 1: water level, and it's it seems like it'd be hard
Speaker 1: to paint unless your ship in dry dock. Well no, no,
Speaker 1: not necessarily. But you've got to remember that the cargo
Speaker 1: that is in the ship will dictate where the water
Speaker 1: line is on it to degree. So it is empty
Speaker 1: when they painted, and then it gets checked when it
Speaker 1: is fully loaded. The scratches they didn't paint are well
Speaker 1: below the water line and therefore won't be seen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'll see, like on a lot of the modern ones,
Speaker 1: just about all they had that bulbous bout thing going on.
Speaker 1: They're not like a traditional line and so ugly. Yeah
Speaker 1: it is ugly, but but a lot of those we
Speaker 1: have when they're empty, that thing is sticking up out
Speaker 1: of the water noticeably so and yeah, so um, I
Speaker 1: would have to say I still like this left for
Speaker 1: a new life better but yeah, but like the next theory,
Speaker 1: well oh yeah, pirates pirates night around, Yeah and actually
Speaker 1: ask us to do anything singing. The new job is
Speaker 1: obviously having an effect on the good one. Obviously, the
Speaker 1: good better mood than the usual. Yeah, not grumpy anymore,
Speaker 1: It's true. Hey, that's good. It might be this can
Speaker 1: of wine too, who knows, it's a whole new podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah uh yeah, but but it's pirates pirates. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: not unheard of I mean and actually taking over small
Speaker 1: boats and and I'm like robbing them, taking their boat
Speaker 1: and selling that that kind of thing. It's not unheard
Speaker 1: of many parts of the world. It's not too common
Speaker 1: on the west coast of the U. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: a little it's also a little like it's not a
Speaker 1: cheap boat. Yeah, it's not. It's it's not like a
Speaker 1: crazy expensive one though either. Yeah, they're not. Actually the
Speaker 1: by this point two thousand seven, they were selling for
Speaker 1: reasonably cheap, oh less than that, Okay, yeah, actually check
Speaker 1: some listings and actually you can buy one of these nowadays,
Speaker 1: so I saw as cheap as likes that's hold on
Speaker 1: the bottom though, well that's probably not one that's like
Speaker 1: totally accessorized in tip top condition. Yeah, yeah, probably not.
Speaker 1: But still, I mean, does it I mean maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not a pirate, so I don't know. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of work to have gone
Speaker 1: to for kind of a little payoff. Yeah. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean there's other possibilities, so, I mean, you know, supposing,
Speaker 1: for example, it's I mean, it's not necessarily a huge
Speaker 1: amount of work. Like suppose let's say, let's say, for example,
Speaker 1: you do want to you do want to get a boat.
Speaker 1: You don't have to have a huge payoff. You just
Speaker 1: go down to the marina, sneak inside, find some of
Speaker 1: somebody with a nice boat who was leaving. Just say hey, hi,
Speaker 1: nice boat, jump on, jump on a board, pull let
Speaker 1: your gun, and say hey, let's take it. Let's take
Speaker 1: a little ride. Yeah, there's some problems. There are some
Speaker 1: problems that let me let me go to the scenario.
Speaker 1: Let me go to so, you know, we we go
Speaker 1: out to see and at a certain point, you know,
Speaker 1: you've been sharing the guy. Oh you do, you play
Speaker 1: your cards right, You'll come out of this without getting hurt.
Speaker 1: And you just said I was joking, and you shoot
Speaker 1: him and throw him overboard, thinking about go to some
Speaker 1: other ports, sell the boat, and you know whatever valuables
Speaker 1: and stuff, and then you've gotten yourself maybe a free
Speaker 1: ride to another continent, you know, and also some pocket money,
Speaker 1: a little walking around money. And so it's entirely conceivable.
Speaker 1: There's other continent, do you mean country? Another country? Another continent? Technically,
Speaker 1: if it was loaded properly with supplies, you could take
Speaker 1: it all. Yeah, and probably now and far more likely
Speaker 1: that you would just take it to Mexico or Canada. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where pirates go. Oh yeah, good point. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: talked about those Canadian pirates before. Yeah, of course there's
Speaker 1: a problem with this, And I was gonna talk about
Speaker 1: there's there's another possibility I considered too, which is and
Speaker 1: so can I'll talk about this one too, which is
Speaker 1: it what if he was kidnapped by the North Koreans
Speaker 1: or somebody like the North Koreans, well, the Russians, the Chinese.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it doesn't have to necessarily be
Speaker 1: the North Koreans. It just has to be somebody that
Speaker 1: recognizes his skills and Google that's who did it. Actually,
Speaker 1: it was probably a O well in a bid to
Speaker 1: get back on top. That's that's good. We don't want
Speaker 1: to be a joke anymore. We used to be. We
Speaker 1: used to be kiding of the hill. We we created aim,
Speaker 1: which they they're shutting down by the way December. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it could have been asked. It could have been Jeeves. Man,
Speaker 1: it's been my Space seven. They were still like doing it.
Speaker 1: Well still, it was what was it Tom? It was Tom? No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't Tom. There Tom didn't have that kind of
Speaker 1: organization was Tom from my space. Yeah, he was your
Speaker 1: first your first friend chilly white T shirt. That's right.
Speaker 1: I forgot about Tom been on my space. It's a
Speaker 1: different site now it really was it poorn? Now? No,
Speaker 1: it's it's music. It doesn't really matter. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I guess it could have been somebody's like kidnapping him.
Speaker 1: But also you think he would have been like ransomed,
Speaker 1: especially when they saw like NASA repositioning satellites. You think
Speaker 1: that the people who kidnapped him would have been like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, there's a lot of money to be thrown
Speaker 1: at this guy, like, let's let's ransom him. No you can.
Speaker 1: I mean at that point you double down. You know
Speaker 1: you've made a good decision and you have stolen something
Speaker 1: that obviously has a lot of worth and this person,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna get your money's worth out of him
Speaker 1: when you get him back to your secret hideaway. You're
Speaker 1: right while you ring as much value as as you can.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you've actually got a tech project that
Speaker 1: needs that kind of brain power working on it, you know,
Speaker 1: there you go where the raspberry pie came from. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the raspberry pie, you know what that means? Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, it's an Android device. Raspberry Pie is the
Speaker 1: operating system, which it so I guess I do know
Speaker 1: what it is. Okay, I don't know. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Actually, the phone call it to
Speaker 1: the phone calls to his wife and his daughter and
Speaker 1: probably kind kind of kind of sink those series. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I was kind of liking those series at first,
Speaker 1: you know, like like the idea of just some criminal
Speaker 1: who needs to get out of the country. But they're
Speaker 1: watching all the ports. They're watching the airport, watching the
Speaker 1: railroad station. Right, I'll just go get a ride on
Speaker 1: the boat. But again, he probably wouldn't have allowed the
Speaker 1: phone calls. Yeah, unlikely. Again, another theory that I was
Speaker 1: thinking about was murder, which is again the phone call
Speaker 1: kind of mestes it up. Although I suppose I see
Speaker 1: here Bill Gates, and you really have a grudge against
Speaker 1: against Jim Graham, you go hide and you go hide
Speaker 1: in the in the fore cabin and uh and just
Speaker 1: race out to meet him in your own speedboat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're Bill Gates and you could have a four
Speaker 1: foot speed boat. Yeah, exactly, a four d foot cigarette boag.
Speaker 1: I can just picture this giant cigarette bow because like
Speaker 1: speeding up down, it pulls alongside of this little door
Speaker 1: in the side of the hall, opens up and it's
Speaker 1: Bill Gates. Hey there, Jim. Well, anyway, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna have the murder. Thing of the
Speaker 1: abduction thing is actually some people who knew him are
Speaker 1: still kind of thicking abductive interesting. It doesn't explain stuff,
Speaker 1: it explains. It explains everything that the leaving for a
Speaker 1: new life explains, plus not having to accept that he
Speaker 1: might have wanted to run away from his own life. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like if I probably, if I were close to
Speaker 1: this case, I definitely would be like, yes, he was
Speaker 1: just abductive. Of course he was, because it explains everything.
Speaker 1: And also, you know, he didn't do it voluntarily. Versus
Speaker 1: us on the outside, I'm way more willing to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was totally willing to just walk in. And most
Speaker 1: of us just don't like the idea that you know,
Speaker 1: our friends dire, we die. It's he's just some random chance,
Speaker 1: dumb occurrence. Yeah, it's hard to accept. Yeah, it's it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I want to go, I want
Speaker 1: to have a slightly more meaningful death than that when
Speaker 1: I just look for me in a cabin in the wood. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: with with a rag stuffed in the tail pipe of
Speaker 1: your car. No, no, just hiding in the cabin in
Speaker 1: the woods. We're gonna go kick in every door so
Speaker 1: we find him. See boom boom, move Stevie there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because let's talk about another series then. Uh, And this
Speaker 1: is a little more plausible, which is that he just
Speaker 1: hit an object and it sank his boat, which is
Speaker 1: could have been I mean, it could have been a
Speaker 1: log or a submerged shipping container. Uh, submerged rocks, because
Speaker 1: the fair Long Islands, especially the south Far the southeast
Speaker 1: Far Long Island apparently has a lot of shoals around it.
Speaker 1: So maybe he screwed up. He hit a you know,
Speaker 1: hit a submerged rock, and he was sailing what's called
Speaker 1: the California Current, which is a current that flows down
Speaker 1: the west coast of North America from Bridge, Columbia to
Speaker 1: Baja California. And of course, as you know, driftwood is
Speaker 1: very very common on our coast, the California coast, because
Speaker 1: trees fall into the river rs from erosion and storms
Speaker 1: and things like that. They eventually get swept to see
Speaker 1: they wind up in the California current and get dragged
Speaker 1: down and you know, chunked up on our coastline and
Speaker 1: even points for this one of my biggest complaints about Canada.
Speaker 1: Yeah craft they're sending us. Yeah, uh so you might
Speaker 1: have hit a log or maybe a shipping container. These
Speaker 1: are lost on a really regular basis. I yeah, the
Speaker 1: found like a yeah, I say, we're okay. They are
Speaker 1: consistently Yeah. I've heard estimates of a round ten thousand
Speaker 1: a year get lost off of the ships. Um, the
Speaker 1: containers aren't watertight, they won't float, but if what's in
Speaker 1: them as positively wind well, then they will like rubber duckies, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: If it's filled with rubber duckies or maybe Nike tennis
Speaker 1: shoes or god knows what, then they might wind up
Speaker 1: floating just barely beneath the surface. They are a little
Speaker 1: bit of a shipping hazard. You're not likely to run
Speaker 1: into one, but if you do, it could be bad news.
Speaker 1: Containers are pretty solid. Yeah. Yeah, they're made out of
Speaker 1: very stout steel. Somebody did Robert Redford. The movie was that.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the name anyway, but it turns out
Speaker 1: to CNC for the Tenacious Didn't we didn't talk? Was
Speaker 1: that we talked about this before? Is that Robert Redford
Speaker 1: movie where he didn't say a word through the entire so,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, And I didn't see that one. I know
Speaker 1: the one you mean, though I heard about it. It's
Speaker 1: um uh yeah, anyway, that's called Robert Redford doesn't talk us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard it goes the entire thing until the very ended.
Speaker 1: At the very end, he goes crap. Anyway, so the
Speaker 1: uh about yeah, yeah. The hull of this boat is
Speaker 1: made of balso balsa would core with fibrid glass lambent
Speaker 1: on both sides, which is makes for a very stiff, strong,
Speaker 1: but light hull. And these were originally built as they're
Speaker 1: they're sort of a hybrid racer slash kind of pleasure boats.
Speaker 1: So they had comfortable accommodations, but they were speedy as well.
Speaker 1: They were overtaken by technology, of course, and so that's
Speaker 1: why they got cheaper back. But back in the day
Speaker 1: they were spending and really fast. But if the fiberglass
Speaker 1: delaminates or if it gets punctured, well, then the balls
Speaker 1: of course can suck up water and eventually rots and
Speaker 1: now you've got a big weak point that can be
Speaker 1: punched do pretty easily. Why, it's something like a floating log,
Speaker 1: and then all is lost. All is lost? Is that good?
Speaker 1: By the way? Should I see it? Yeah? You enjoy it? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll watch that one. Then put it on my next flix,
Speaker 1: my next what not Netflix? Your next flix? My Netflix.
Speaker 1: Having issues with those guys, I'll talk about that some
Speaker 1: of the time now. But there was another problem with
Speaker 1: the CNC forty, which is the keel. And again, the
Speaker 1: keel is the fin on the bottom of the boat,
Speaker 1: exactly like the surfboard fin, only giant. Yeah, only a
Speaker 1: lot bigger, and it weighs a lot more because on
Speaker 1: the sailboat it's got to keep it upright. In the
Speaker 1: case of the CNC forty, it's a four ton chunk
Speaker 1: of steel or ladd or what ever that's bolted to
Speaker 1: the bottom of the boat. But the bottom of the
Speaker 1: hall on this particular boat is nearly flat. And to
Speaker 1: maximize headroom in the cabin, because remember this was not
Speaker 1: a strictly spartan racing boat. It was supposed to be
Speaker 1: kind of a nice cruising boat too, they wanted full
Speaker 1: headroom in there, so the builders are kept shallow. In
Speaker 1: this particular design, there's very little room for a transverse support,
Speaker 1: meaning beams that go across that helped to support the keel.
Speaker 1: And and you know, keep it like you know from
Speaker 1: yeah and and front and back and everything, keep it,
Speaker 1: keep it firmly, just attached to the whole of the boat.
Speaker 1: And so it's got kind of minimal support on the inside,
Speaker 1: and so what what would happen? And the keel is
Speaker 1: a dagger type, which means that it's actually taller than
Speaker 1: it is long. So if the attachment point is why
Speaker 1: taller than it is wide? Yeah, well I guess why
Speaker 1: I wanted thinking along, I'm thinking from four to app Yeah,
Speaker 1: some people will see that's wide, but is long wider
Speaker 1: than long? Yeah, tall along whatever anyway, So, uh, the
Speaker 1: attachment point, it's not tremendously long, so stresses are not
Speaker 1: spread out. And so if you haven't to run into
Speaker 1: sin under water rock on your CNC forty, the front
Speaker 1: of the keel can be torn off the hall. The
Speaker 1: trailing edge can actually be levered up and around and
Speaker 1: into the bottom of the hall. So basically, yeah, it
Speaker 1: goes yeah, it just it just comes right back up
Speaker 1: and yeah, and that this has actually happened on CNC
Speaker 1: forty and that probably what pierced the bottom of the Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then it's one case that I read about it
Speaker 1: hit a rock at seven knots, the keel punched right
Speaker 1: through the bottom of the boat. And yeah, and Jim
Speaker 1: Gray was known in salient and area known for its shoals. Right.
Speaker 1: But of course if he hit a rock and I
Speaker 1: supposed to taking on water a catastrophic race the rate,
Speaker 1: then why didn't he run his boat up on the shore.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, maybe he thought he could still
Speaker 1: save his boat and he didn't want to total his boat.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was actually too far from the islands. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I mean maybe he hit his
Speaker 1: shipping container. Yeah, that could have done the shipping lane. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or maybe he didn't realize what had happened. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so I know one of these things, I mean, his
Speaker 1: his his hall. I mean the hull could have been
Speaker 1: punched you by a log or shipping container, or he
Speaker 1: hits the shipping container with the keel and it punches
Speaker 1: through his hall. But there's a whole bunch of ways
Speaker 1: to put a hole in the bottom of his hole
Speaker 1: in the hall whole story. Oh god, so the Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the boat did that some weaknesses. But again we
Speaker 1: got to ask why didn't he eat purpose that was
Speaker 1: the emergency something something something, you know, I forget what
Speaker 1: that's called radio broadcast, but there's there's a lot of
Speaker 1: pretty simple reasons why that didn't go off. Well what
Speaker 1: is that? Apparently he kept it below decks. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have him out like you know, like
Speaker 1: maybe attached to your railing or whatever. But people usually
Speaker 1: when they had their boats stored in them, they take
Speaker 1: valuable stuff off and lock it up down below. Seems like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and he could have had it in something like this
Speaker 1: Pelican case that happens to be in the room that
Speaker 1: we're recording in, which are typically made to be watertight,
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't nothing would have activated it to go off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But if it was stored in that manner, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: actually I think they had it stored in like a
Speaker 1: cloth bag. They would take it off at the end
Speaker 1: of the day of sailing and put the cloth bag
Speaker 1: and store below decks. And it might it might be
Speaker 1: that Gym felt like he didn't feel like deploying it
Speaker 1: because he's going on just a little day trip, but
Speaker 1: he's not actually going out very far into the ocean.
Speaker 1: Nice weather and everything like that, he probably didn't bother
Speaker 1: an employing it. Well. The other thing is, though, is
Speaker 1: you know he might have tried, but it may not
Speaker 1: have been maintained properly because they require batteries, and if
Speaker 1: you don't check your batteries, they discharge themselves over time,
Speaker 1: and that would completely, you know, make the thing useless.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm kind of with Joe on
Speaker 1: this and that when you're these kind of shorter day trips,
Speaker 1: you're not like, I mean, you are out in the
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean, but you're not out in the
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean. Especially if you've been if you've
Speaker 1: done this run a number of times, you think, well,
Speaker 1: it's a nice day, I'm not going to crash, and
Speaker 1: if I do, I can swim to shore. And that
Speaker 1: was awesome myself. He's got the radio, he's not far
Speaker 1: from the coast Guard. There's other boats around, you know,
Speaker 1: even if they're not right next to you, there's other boats.
Speaker 1: Can somebody will come off. Blair said, I get off
Speaker 1: a radio signal. Whatever he did probably just just didn't
Speaker 1: see it as as a situation this huge could have
Speaker 1: had it could have had one that just had a
Speaker 1: bad set of batteries and they leaked and and you know,
Speaker 1: or something like that. Well, yeah, I mean you apparently,
Speaker 1: from what I'm under have come to understand you have
Speaker 1: to do a little bit of maintenance. And they're like
Speaker 1: your remote control. After a year or so, you got
Speaker 1: to change the batteries for sure, though they don't get
Speaker 1: heavy use. Yeah, and so as so the aprop not
Speaker 1: deploying to me is not that mysterious given the circumstances.
Speaker 1: But again that he's still got to wonder, well, why
Speaker 1: why was there no radio to stress call? That doesn't
Speaker 1: really surprise me that much. Well, maybe it was too
Speaker 1: busy trying to save the boat to get on the radio,
Speaker 1: I mean, and maybe by the time he realized that
Speaker 1: it was hopeless, the radio was already under water for
Speaker 1: some reason. Yeah, yeah, or or who knows, I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe the I say, if he runs in this something,
Speaker 1: maybe he loses his balance and hits his head. There's
Speaker 1: all kinds of reasons. I think a lot of times
Speaker 1: about being like the first responder to like a medical emergency, right,
Speaker 1: you know, and you're like, oh, having to run up
Speaker 1: to this thing, and then at what point do you
Speaker 1: call mine? One? One? You know, it's like if you're
Speaker 1: the only person there and you're trying to assist somebody
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to liken this to a ship, right,
Speaker 1: You're like, you're so busy doing all these things that
Speaker 1: you realize, oh, crap, I never actually called someone. I
Speaker 1: have been so big trying to do these other things,
Speaker 1: and it's it's too late. You know. I'm I'm doing CPR.
Speaker 1: I can't stop doing CBR because like really, you're not
Speaker 1: allowed to stop doing CPR once you're starting to do it.
Speaker 1: So like, how am I going to I hope somebody
Speaker 1: comes along. Yeah, it's a little Dutch boy with his
Speaker 1: finger in the dike, trying to stop this one spot leaking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you can't get away because if you let's go,
Speaker 1: it's gonna leak. Yeah. Yeah. I can totally sympathize with
Speaker 1: the idea of it just being too late. Yeah. It
Speaker 1: could it could be that he just didn't Maybe he
Speaker 1: didn't realize. Jim was a very capable guy from everything
Speaker 1: I heard, and it might well be that he thought, well,
Speaker 1: I can handle this. Yeah, and it realized he late,
Speaker 1: maybe I can't handle this. I'll see my radios fried
Speaker 1: and get off the life raft while it's too late
Speaker 1: for that too. I'm still not so sure. I think
Speaker 1: one of the other things, at least for me, I'm
Speaker 1: a very like controlling person, as you guys know, and
Speaker 1: whenever I've been in situation with like I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: like after a lie tragedy like losing a parent for instance, right,
Speaker 1: sometimes you try to grasp at these straws of like,
Speaker 1: these are the only situations I can control, you know
Speaker 1: what can I control? And even I think it could
Speaker 1: even have extrapolated out even more in a situation with
Speaker 1: an emergency, where he would be like, yes, I can
Speaker 1: control this, I can do it. I will take care
Speaker 1: of myself. It's it's all on me, and I can
Speaker 1: do it, and everything's gonna be great and everything's gonna
Speaker 1: be perfect, and then it just kind of yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think you even have to add the fact of,
Speaker 1: you know, the loss of a parent. But I don't
Speaker 1: think he may have just considered himself such a competent
Speaker 1: sailor that he bypassed standard procedures because he knew better,
Speaker 1: because he's a brilliant I'm a brilliant guy. Alternately, we
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about this to a lot. I
Speaker 1: think just you know, the last couple of weeks, we've
Speaker 1: talked about this where you never know how somebody's going
Speaker 1: to react in an emergency. He could have just lost it.
Speaker 1: He could have just suddenly not known what to do
Speaker 1: at all. It's just totally frozen and been like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna release the jip. That'll help it. You know. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: in no rational brain is that going to help? But
Speaker 1: his brain just panicked. It's just like it's kind of
Speaker 1: like people acting horror movies, you know, Yeah, like okay,
Speaker 1: I just I just clubbed the villain with the baseball bat.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to drop the bat and run away. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: that makes sense, Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. The only
Speaker 1: week this is the series again, we have no no
Speaker 1: radio stress, no flots and whatsoever. Although one series that's
Speaker 1: been put out about that is that apparently it could
Speaker 1: be that if the boat was holed at the back
Speaker 1: or even in the middle, took on a lot of water,
Speaker 1: there's more weight in the back of the boat. Fuel
Speaker 1: tanks for the diesel, also the diesel engine itself or
Speaker 1: in the back. It could have gone down stern first.
Speaker 1: And so assuming he had nothing like laying around on
Speaker 1: the deck, everything was strapped down. Everything was either strapped
Speaker 1: down or already below x uh and it goes down
Speaker 1: stern first, Well, then nothing gets out. You know that.
Speaker 1: That actually is one of the things that a lot
Speaker 1: of people point to, which we didn't actually talk about
Speaker 1: in the suicide theories, that if he intentionally did this,
Speaker 1: he could have He probably was smart enough. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: would have had everything strapped down. He would have shut
Speaker 1: the door and then punched a hole in the bottom
Speaker 1: and the water would have come in, but nothing would
Speaker 1: have been able to actually escape from the cabin because
Speaker 1: the hatch was closed. Yeah. Yeah, you pop. You can
Speaker 1: pop those hatches open, actually for ventilation purposes. You can
Speaker 1: pop them open distant inch or two pop, chop them
Speaker 1: up and enough to let air out. It makes it
Speaker 1: hard for things to get out because those things are
Speaker 1: too big to slide through that little hole. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Jim being a smart guy, he would know where
Speaker 1: the continental shelf was. He would go past it in
Speaker 1: the nice deep, deep deep water where he's not going
Speaker 1: to be found as they did look around the bottom
Speaker 1: for him. My my, my, my, final thoughts and the
Speaker 1: whole thing. Or even though I think that's possible, I
Speaker 1: still have a problem with that scenario, which is, again,
Speaker 1: his eprip didn't go off, no rate to distress signal,
Speaker 1: no plots in from the boat, he couldn't deploy his
Speaker 1: life raft. I mean, that's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: should have happened. At least at least a couple of
Speaker 1: those things should have happened if he if he took
Speaker 1: some damage and started took started taking on huge amounts
Speaker 1: of water, which it leads me to think that again
Speaker 1: the possibility that he might have had a heart attack
Speaker 1: or a stroke or something. And yeah, we were talking
Speaker 1: about this, and again the coast Guard was searching, but
Speaker 1: they were searching initially I think, fairly close in between
Speaker 1: the islands and San Francisco. And it wasn't until as
Speaker 1: far as I know, I mean, I calculated how how
Speaker 1: far just under sale he would have gotten at the
Speaker 1: end of the first day. I mean we're talking five
Speaker 1: to six knots he would have been around And it
Speaker 1: says this is by eight am the next morning the
Speaker 1: one in the morning of the twenty nine, he would
Speaker 1: have been around a hundred two hundred and sixty miles
Speaker 1: west of San Francisco, which would have been no theoretically
Speaker 1: within the search area. But I don't know how are
Speaker 1: out at that point they were flying their planes, so
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, especially because we as we talked about,
Speaker 1: he wasn't reported missing until like eight pm that night
Speaker 1: and the night yeah and as night, so um, so
Speaker 1: I don't know how far. I'm pretty sure that they
Speaker 1: that that immediate night they would have been searching between
Speaker 1: the islands and his and I would agree with that
Speaker 1: San Francisco that that gives him about fifty miles to
Speaker 1: play with, because it's only thirty miles to the island.
Speaker 1: In twelve hours he would have gone seventy or eighty miles.
Speaker 1: He would have been well outside of their search area.
Speaker 1: That sure. And then yeah, we're talking like since you know,
Speaker 1: so he keeps putting another hundred eighty or a hundred
Speaker 1: forty hundred fifty miles of distance between them per day,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they actually the coast Guard actually
Speaker 1: started looking further out there eventually went as far as
Speaker 1: I think three hundred fifty miles out from shore. But
Speaker 1: eventually but by that yeah, by that time, he could
Speaker 1: have been far far further out than that. And so
Speaker 1: and I know that they brought all sorts of resource,
Speaker 1: all these satellites overflew the area and everything, and they
Speaker 1: looked at this stuff. But it's really hard to say
Speaker 1: without knowing what areas were photographed by this satellite and
Speaker 1: when the photograph was taken, it's really hard to say.
Speaker 1: I mean, if it was taken like two d miles out,
Speaker 1: but it was you know, it was taken like, you know,
Speaker 1: three or four days after he went missing, well he
Speaker 1: would have been long gone. Yeah, so what do you
Speaker 1: what's your best theory? My my best theory is that
Speaker 1: he had he had something incapacitated him in the boat
Speaker 1: just sailed on, just stayed on an autopilot, and then eventually,
Speaker 1: of course the battery ran flat, the autopilot failed, the
Speaker 1: boat just started wallowing, and probably at some point it
Speaker 1: was just um and I'm assuming because it was a
Speaker 1: nice day, the hatches, including the main hatch, they were
Speaker 1: probably all open, and so probably the boat eventually just
Speaker 1: got swamped. But somewhere like in the middle of the
Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean where we ever find it. Yeah, probably that's
Speaker 1: that's that's that's my best theory. But there's not. It's
Speaker 1: not conclusive at all. And see what's your best theory? Um?
Speaker 1: I still in this instance, Uh, it's either a new
Speaker 1: life or or he was abducted. Yeah, I think. I
Speaker 1: mean I like to think good thoughts, so I would
Speaker 1: generally say a new life. Okay, I don't think it,
Speaker 1: you know, in my rational brain, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: the best theory. But well, that's the one I want
Speaker 1: to be. He may have realized that he was is it.
Speaker 1: It is not in the ZENI if he was at
Speaker 1: the tail end of his career and he was starting
Speaker 1: to be outpaced, but yes, thank you, and things were
Speaker 1: outpacing him, and he may have realized he didn't have
Speaker 1: too much longer, that he was going to be able
Speaker 1: to be on top of the game, and I had
Speaker 1: to go out. Yeah, yeah, this is this theory. It
Speaker 1: only just occurred to me. What well combined the disappeared
Speaker 1: on a new life thing with the pirates. With pirates,
Speaker 1: he went to go be a pirate. Yeah, essentially, when
Speaker 1: the pirates, the pirates go to take over his boat
Speaker 1: and he starts talking to him. He says, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been taking about a career change, and I am
Speaker 1: leaving to go to answer out to start a new life. Anyway,
Speaker 1: why don't I be nc became a pirate. I think
Speaker 1: maybe aliens could have just abducted his entire boat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they could have beamed They beamed him up, and then
Speaker 1: they got he got there and they realized how smart
Speaker 1: he was, and they were like, yeah, okay, we're keeping you. Yeah, great,
Speaker 1: you can be the person who will help us understand database.
Speaker 1: Can you clean up? Can you clean up our coolball code? Dude? See,
Speaker 1: you know we cannot get Windows ninety eight to work anymore,
Speaker 1: Just like, oh yeah, I know, nobody couldn't. I can't
Speaker 1: even help you with that. Sorry. Until they dropped him
Speaker 1: in the ocean Windows XP because the screen of death. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I think I just hope he
Speaker 1: started a new life somewhere. Yeah. I like the idea
Speaker 1: of they're becoming a pirate. He eventually became a captain
Speaker 1: of the pirates. But I'm gonna go with the he
Speaker 1: had a stroke or something like that theory. But as
Speaker 1: seems most likely and it fits the facts of the best.
Speaker 1: But other than that, I can't really say much more. Jim,
Speaker 1: if you're out there listening, send us a note. Don't
Speaker 1: post on Reddit, just send us an email please, Uh
Speaker 1: problems keep your secret? Yeah, we will keep your secret
Speaker 1: and less well now, of course we will. Yeah. All right.
Speaker 1: Uh so that's about it for this week. If you're
Speaker 1: out there, of course, Jim, you're gonna want a email address,
Speaker 1: which is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com and
Speaker 1: and anybody else if you want to send us an
Speaker 1: email and argue with us, or tell us how wonderful
Speaker 1: we are whatever, you can do that too. Of course,
Speaker 1: we have a website it is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: Or you can listen to our episodes. Um. You'll also
Speaker 1: find an episode list out there for all the many
Speaker 1: many episodes we've done, and you can buy merch Look
Speaker 1: on the right hand side you can buy muggs, do shirts, bombs,
Speaker 1: I don't know what else, bombs out damn it? Uh
Speaker 1: what else? We're on social media? We are on Facebook
Speaker 1: where we have a group and our page. So like
Speaker 1: the page, joined the group. Lots of fun stuff happening
Speaker 1: out there. Answer the questions. Yeah, oh yeah, answer the questions.
Speaker 1: You have to answer the questions in the group. We
Speaker 1: now have questions. I forgot about that. Also social media,
Speaker 1: we are on Twitter where we are thinking Sideways, and
Speaker 1: we're on Reddit where we have subreddit called thinking sideways. Hey.
Speaker 1: And also, of course you're gonna wonder where you can
Speaker 1: where else you can find us. You can find us
Speaker 1: on iTunes, which we probably know that already. We don't
Speaker 1: tell you that anyway, And of course leave a comment,
Speaker 1: leave a rating. We like those things, good ratings anyway.
Speaker 1: And also you can stream us on Stitcher and god
Speaker 1: knows all kinds of other places. All right, Well, and
Speaker 1: that's about it. So it looks like we're gonna sail
Speaker 1: off into the sunset. So till next week, bye, guys.
Speaker 1: I don't have any puns and sorry O. High chips
Speaker 1: are high blad