WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Disappearance of Jim Gray 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:08.240 by nihilism or not, or it is whatever, it doesn't matter. Instead, 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.360 it's brought to you by your local animal shelter. Do 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.840 you want to get a furry, feathered, or scaly friend? 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.520 Probably all three put together. Yeah, you do. Go to 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.960 your local animal shelter before the pet store because pet 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.480 stores are super lame. There's so many four legged friends 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.279 out there, into legged friends out there that just want 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.120 to find a good home, and they want to find 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.160 their good home with you already have your furry friend, 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.440 and you want to help out, donate to your local 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.880 animal rescue or shelter organization. It doesn't have to be money. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.360 You can always volunteer. So get out there and give 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:57.840 some love to some animals that need some love or whatever. Yea, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.479 hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways on Joe, 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:13.319 joined as always by and Steve and again Well I'm surprise, surprise, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.440 we got a mystery to talk about this week. We're 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.200 gonna talk about the disappearance of Jim Gray, who you 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:24.520 haul heard of. I'm sure very famous. He actually has 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.479 had an impact, even if I have not heard of him. 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.560 Very well known in the tech world, though he disappeared 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.560 almost ten years ago. But first of all, I want 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.840 to thank Shimmy who suggested this like a couple of 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.200 years ago. Um. But back to Jim Gray. He was 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.679 a big pioneer in the modern tech industry. He worked 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:45.280 at Bell Labs, IBM, Deck, Microsoft, God knows how many 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.520 companies he worked for. Very well known guy, highly regarded, 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.240 and he played a big part in developing technologies that 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:56.640 we all used today. Believe it or not, he did. Yeah, right, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.120 not directly. I mean I'm probably somewhere somehow, you know, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.680 you could connect him to it, but probably seven degrees 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.359 of Jim Gray pretty much. Yeah. Jim was a sailor, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.040 had a forty ft sailboat. He boarded his sailboat the 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.640 morning of January two thousand and seven, which was a Sunday, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.680 sailed out alone to the Golden Gates in San Francisco 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.120 into the ocean. It was supposed to be a day 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.120 trip to the far A Long Islands, which are twenty 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.160 seven miles west of San Francisco. It was a nice 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.560 day call conditions, Sonny, but still Jim never made it back. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.880 He vanished without a trace, which is kind of odd. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.600 He didn't send it a stress signal. No wreckage or 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.360 flots some from his boat was ever found, Like I said, 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:43.520 he vanished without He totally did San Francisco Triangle. Yeah. Probably, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.200 I'd say it's kind of creepy, but Halloween mouth is over, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.960 so creepy's out. Strange is in. So that's what it is. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:56.720 Strange strange November. Yeah, kind of head scratching November okay, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.680 but oh is that what it is? That or that's eighties? Yeah? 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:08.040 I thought it was puzzling and now it's just scabies. Yeah, 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:12.520 stay too fast, I know, always straight to the bottom. Uh. 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.560 But when word got out that Jim Gray had disappeared, 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:17.480 a lot of people in the tech world took notice. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:19.360 A lot of big names that you probably heard of, 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.240 like Bill Gates, Sergey Brinn from Google, Larry Allison from Oracle, 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:28.360 and Bliss goes on what's his name from Amazon. Yeah. Anyway, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.320 they all wanted to help in anyway they could, and 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.600 they all did. Search for Jim Gray was about as 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.640 comprehensive as any search ever done for anybody. I think 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.640 you guys read all that stuff that I said. It 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.120 was big time search. Thousands of people were involving this 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.240 in the end. Yeah, but still they didn't find him 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.360 or a trace of them. So what happened? Did you 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.640 skip out and everything sale to en Sonatas start a 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.640 new life. Did the illuminati get him? Did the crack 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.360 and get him? Yes? Yeah, the crack can usually leaves wreckage. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.480 so it wasn't the cracking, Probably not the acinnati. Maybe 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:10.920 naughty kracken Uh, yeah, it's kind of repetitious. And yeah, okay, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.160 so what's I mean, what's the deal here? I mean, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.360 let's well, let's go back to square one. Um, so 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.320 just just a little bi bio stuff on Jim, and 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:19.640 I'm not going to go back to the day he 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.680 was born. He was sixty three when he disappeared. On 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.480 his second marriage, his second wife was Donna. They had 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.880 about twenty years of experienced sailing their their boat and 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.120 together together and separately, and because Jim went a single 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.359 hand occasionally, and they sorry you may not know this 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.120 off the top of your head, how they it was 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.760 a longer marriage. They you know, it was his second wife. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.680 But they were married for Yeah, they were married for 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:49.080 quite a while. I don't remember exactly, think they met. Yeah, 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.560 and then they married just a couple of No, they 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.680 got married really quick because you proposed on their third date. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.560 I remember because they were both you know, at this 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.880 point they were God, they would have both been a 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.400 fifty at that point, so there's no reason to muck about. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.200 But they were married for about ten years. It wasn't 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.520 as though two years in suddenly he disappears. It's like 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:09.280 it's like, you know, they got married and they wanted 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:10.960 their honey, even in Australia, and next thing, you know 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.880 what I'm is dead. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like that 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:15.280 at all. They were they alre together for a while. 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:17.240 I don't know, it doesn't probably matter. I just wonder, 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.400 but I don't think it does. Oh yeah, they're both 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.640 their boat. You probably want to know. This was a 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.280 C and C forty, which is a forty ft sloop 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.280 but manufactured in Canada. Sloop slop. Sloop is a single 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.800 man of the most common way that you see it's 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.320 a single mast is sailing sailboat. Yeah, and then it's 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.040 it's the mast is stepped kind of forward. And then 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:41.880 actually there's might have been a cutter because the cutter 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.680 the stat it looks just like a sloop with the 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.200 mast is stepped a little further back, and it's it's 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.560 got two head sails instead of one. Okay, so I 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.840 don't know, but it's just like when you think, like 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.680 when a kid draws a sailboat, this is what they're drawing. Yeah, 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.240 one mast. Sorry, we don't all know body terms like 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.320 you do. That's a good point. Okay, Yeah, I'm sorry 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.800 about that. As I mentioned, Jim Gray was in the 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.520 tech business at the time he disappeared. He was working 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.400 for Microsoft. He lived in a house on Telegraph Hill 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.040 in San Francisco. Really tough life. Yeah, I know, poor guy. 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:12.920 By the way, they definitely the sort of thing you'd 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.479 want to run away from. Yeah, exactly. They weren't renting, 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.680 by the way, they owned. I'm sure they did. Yeah, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.320 they did, which if you know San Francisco neighborhoods, that's 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:27.760 a spending little name, even in or two. Definitely. Yeah, No, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.400 I did. Just for fun, I went out and Zillo 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.800 looked listings of Telegraph Hills and I found it. I 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.640 found that make you feel. I found I found one 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.360 vacant lot. It was about fifteen hundred square feet for 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.800 only two hundred thousand bucks. But it was a vacant lot. Well, 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.440 it was a vacant lot, but they had some pictures 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.400 of it, and it was on the hillside about literally 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:54.039 this steep fortified in other words. Yeah, and so that 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.520 was the cheapest thinggraph hill. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, I mean, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.159 I guess if you have people literally Bill Gates being 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:07.600 concerned personally for your well being, you're probably probably probably 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.200 influential and they're gonna pay some good money. Yeah. Uh. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.200 And they had, as I said, a forty foot sale 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.240 boat now again tough life, which they kept board in 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.240 a marina and what's called Gashouse Cove in San Francisco Bay. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.280 It's kind of just west several blocks of Gardelli Square. 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.680 And I'm sure it costs you a boatload of bucks 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:35.200 to keep your boat there. It's pretty clever name tenacious. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.200 I'm sure. I'm sure there was a little wordplay involved 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.920 in there too. Yeah. Like Jim Gray's mother had died 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.320 a few months before, that was October two thousand and six, 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.320 and on Sunday, January seven, he was planning to sail 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.240 to the fair Long Islands to scatter her ashes. Apparently 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.120 that was her wishes, was to have her ashes scattered there. 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.760 Kind of ironic, and he disappears carrying out her last wishes. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:59.680 You know, it's kind of she probably wouldn't would have 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.760 wished for something different if she had known, but you know, 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.400 hindsight and all that stuff. Right. Um, So he spent 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.280 the previous night on the boat so we can get 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.560 an early start. Seven am. He was ready to go. 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.000 He called Donna at seven oh one am, and she 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.600 was in with Wisconsin at that time, vacationally with some friends. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.480 It was like an annual. Yeah, she has some somebodies 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:25.120 and they always took off Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, ski and 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.840 ice fish and drink beer and I don't know, tip 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.800 cows or whatever you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, eat cheese. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.160 But told her that he was going to go out 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.280 scatter mom's ashes and that he was not going to 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.000 disappear and turn up in Baja and her new name 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.320 now not at all. Uh. So you cast us sometime 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.760 between then and about seven fifteen and headed out from 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:47.800 the arena. It's about two and a half miles west 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.679 to the Golden Gate Bridge and then from there it's 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.360 about two and a half more until you get to 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.079 the open ocean, you know, and it seems like it's 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.280 like the oceans right there. But actually now it's it's 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.240 not at all. It's it's a little ways away because 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.320 it's a big river. Yeah, it's it's a big end 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.480 like yeah, river, harbor, whatever you call it. But yeah, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.840 from there, like I said, about another twenty five miles 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.160 maybe to to southeast Farrellin Island, which is the largest 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.600 of the chain. There's several of the chain and southeast 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.400 is the big one and it's the only one that 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.280 has people on it, and those people are basically government 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.040 employees who run sort of. But it's big enough for 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.800 people to live on. Yeah, but it's not like there's 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.080 an economy. It's just their scientists who are basically gathering 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.200 wildlife information and stuff like that. But it's not just like, 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.640 you know, a rock, like you know, it's not like 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.400 the islands we have in the middle of our river. No, right, No, 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.880 it's bigger than that. Yeah, it's big enough to build, 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.160 big enough to you could build a lighthouse on it 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.120 and have your like your bigger than a breads appear. Yeah, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.959 it wouldn't fit in a bread box. No, it's it's big. Actually, 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:48.559 I think actually I think it does have a lighthouse 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.760 on it. I didn't think of it. Yeah, but anyway, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.040 that's southeast fair Long Island. Um. So Jim calls Donna 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.880 again about ten thirty, and the callers relates to a 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.080 singular cell tower in Daily City, which is south of 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.400 San Francisco, and singular as in like a T and 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:10.240 T singular. It's not like singlar. Yeah, is that singular? Singular? Singular? Okay, 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.960 that would have been due east of his position, therefore 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.800 the closest one because he was a way out to 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:20.480 sea and Dalli's dally Cities, Daily City, Daily City. Sorry, yeah, 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.240 that's it's on mainland. Yes, it's just south and on 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:26.640 the west side of the peninsula kind of west station. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.160 Not not real west, but you know, yeah, yeah, and 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.160 he's he was almost out of cell range and he 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.800 just called to say the usual, you know, which he 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.880 scattering Mom's ashes. Uh. And by the way, if I 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.199 don't come back, it's because I've been Davy Jones locker, 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.240 not in a brothel. And it's not a no, no, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.640 not at all. And I and actual, by the way, 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.800 I'm just kidding. He called just say the weather was 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.320 really good, and probably just to check in. You say, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.760 like this is my progress. Everything's going well. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.200 he said, I'm basically out kind of passed the last 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.880 the last bootie marker for the channel. Uh. There's a 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.080 little ambiguity there because apparently it's a fairly complicated situation. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.320 There's three channels that come together from the ocean, north, south, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.520 and west all come together into one like nine mile 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.000 channel that goes all the way to the Golden Gate Bridge, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.760 and so all the all the big incoming ships have 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.160 to follow that ship that incoming channel. So there's a 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.040 lot kinds of booty markers out there, and so there's 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.560 a little ambiguity about exactly which booe marker he was 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.360 talking about. But I can see that. Yeah, there were 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.360 people that went back and tried to reassemble it that 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.319 really really intense timeline that like you know, noted all 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.400 of his movements, and they could never totally resolve exactly 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.800 where he was. But between him saying that and and 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.680 between the cell phone pinging that tower in Daily City, 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:43.840 it does appear that he really was on the boat. 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:45.679 It's not like he said he was getting on the 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.760 boat and then just nipped out and jumped on a 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:52.520 bus and left town and they scuttled, scuttled the boat 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:54.600 in the middle of San Francisco Bay, swam and swam 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.719 ashore and then just like left town. Not not no, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.720 I mean, I guess I can see bull ways why 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.280 it's worth discussing this second call, because he just called 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.440 her at seven to basically say, Hey, it's looking like 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:07.960 a nice day. This is what I'm going to do, 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.960 you know, love you whatever. And I don't know their relationships, 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.439 so I don't know if they were the kind of people. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.080 I have some friends who are on the phone with 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.560 their husbands like every three hours, you know, they just 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.840 like they call at lunch, they call at their break, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.240 they talk on their phone all the time, which seems 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.199 excessive to me, but that but I mean, that's how 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.200 some people are. So if they were that kind of couple, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.600 it does make sense that he would call her again 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.840 and saying like, hey, I'm leaving cell phone range. Yeah. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.280 I don't know that they were totally that kind of couple, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:37.520 but I think they were. I think they were in 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.679 great terms. I think they really care for each other, 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.600 and so not at all surprising. And by the way, 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.679 he was on a sailboilt in the Millinoral out in 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.439 the ocean with not a whole lot to do. So 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.439 it's like, hey, why don't I make some phone calls? 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.440 You know I can't. I mean, I see that too. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:52.920 I guess what I would say is like, if it 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.000 were I know my fiance well enough to know that 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.920 if this were us, he would have called me at 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.000 seven and said, Okay, I'm going to do this today, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.200 so I'm gonna be out of cellphone range the entire 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.199 day and would have expected me to just wait until 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.880 he called me when he got back to land at 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.560 the end of the day and just assume everything is fine, right, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.240 And so there are people like that too. So but 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.240 on the other hand, I can also see how I 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.960 don't think people might think, well, this is like the 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.000 last time he ever called his wife, he was trying 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.280 to say goodbye to her. It wasn't the last phone 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.000 call he made. Not the important point. It's not, but 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.439 it is also, you know, I can I guess I 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.599 can see why it's worth discussing either way. Yeah, no, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.679 I mean it could be read that way. Although he 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.080 didn't say anything that really stood out in her mind later, 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.160 I didn't say anything like honey, you know I love you. 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.959 So much. I mean, maybe he did, but especially it 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.520 was just like, hey, weather's great, you know. And and 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.440 then she says, you're wearing her harness because you know, 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.000 in your single hand and you're supposed to wear a 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.000 harness that you don't fall off, so don't fall overboard, 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.800 and he said he was wearing his harness. One other 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.600 thing that man may not be relevant at all is 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:55.520 she said she didn't hear any engine noises, so he 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.000 was just under stale, not running the diesel they have, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.360 they have a diesel motor on these things. Uh. But 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.920 that's about it for that phone call. And then he 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.640 also called his daughter at ten thirty eight. That was 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.680 the last phone call. She had recently had a son 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.240 that would be Jim's grandson. Yeah, and maybe that's why 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.000 she didn't pick up the phone. But he did leave 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.280 her a voicemail saying kind of the same thing. You know, 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.760 whether it's good, it's gonna go scattered grandma's ashes. There's 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.040 dolphins all around me. It's beautiful. Everything's the worst beautiful 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.320 out here, and uh and on and on and on 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.480 and by the way, goodbye forever, I love you now, 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.200 just kidding. He didn't sit so you could read that 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.600 that way. He's saying goodbye to the most important people's life. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.560 He's calling them on the phone. He's gonna go kill himself. Yeah, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.200 maybe I don't, Or you could again, like you said, 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.240 you could read it as he was bored in the 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.640 middle of the ocean. Yeah, I thought, what the hell 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.000 you know, I'm about to run pick a couple of 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.640 phone calls. Yeah, why not? Again? You know, it comes 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.320 down to get I guess those different personality types where 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.160 I would definitely be that kind of person who would 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.920 just be like I am bored with Heck, I gotta 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:00.560 call some people. I gotta talk some people. I do 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.000 not like being alone, and I just like make all 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.400 these phone calls and talk to all these people. To 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.680 turn off my cell phone. An, I mean you would 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.960 have because I know you well enough to know you 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:12.680 would have, like you would have placed that last call 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.800 and turned it off and been like, this is amazing, 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.320 this ocean is beautiful. I love this. It's the best. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.560 So I guess, you know, part of it comes down 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.400 to personality types pretty much. So it's hard to read 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.600 into this without knowing him. Yeah, it is hard to 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.360 say if that means anything. I don't think it does, 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.400 but you know, we'll we'll say, we'll talk about that 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.480 in theories generally, I mean, obviously, and when people disappear, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.280 suicide is always considered to be a possibility, of course. Yeah, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:43.080 suicide is considered like almost in almost any case. Yeah really, Yeah, Well, anyway, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:44.800 so we'll talk about that more of the series. Sorry, 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.280 I'm just trying to set the framework. No, that's totally cool. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.800 So back to Jim in his little sailing adventure. Apparently 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.680 the last contact with the cell terra was am Jim's 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.840 about cruised out of cell phone range and he was 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.960 on his own, and that's expected, right, that's about the 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.880 expected timeline. Yeah, and yeah, that's that's not unusual at all. Um, 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.320 Presumably there was shipping traffic because, as I said, three 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.120 sea lanes coming together, a lot of big poor a 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.240 lot of traffic. So there were ships out there. I 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.320 had no doubt about it. I'm sure they weren't whirling 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.800 around like snowflakes or anything like that, but there were 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:25.200 there were something. Oh yeah, he totally he sailed. He's 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.400 sailed out there many times. But that's the that's as 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.840 far as Jim's course. After that, it's pretty much unknown. 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.240 It's assumed that he made it actually out to the 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.720 island because a biologist named Brett Hardel was living working 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.640 on Southeast Farrellin Island at the time and he reported 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.720 this was after his disappearance hit the news and and 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.280 afterwards he thought about it, said, you know, I think 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.600 I saw his boat. Yeah, he said, he's seen a 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.680 boat that might have been Jim. So he said he's 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.720 seen either it was either a red or a brown hale. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.240 It was hard to tell because it was like over 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.320 a mile away, so it was really hard. Jim Greece 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.680 boat was had a red hole, had a red hall 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.200 with kind of a white race, yeah kind of thing. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.239 And depending on the photos sun photos, it looks kind 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.479 of like really bright red. Other photos it looks kind 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.119 of more ketchup e colored, but you look like getting 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.120 certain photos to just depends on the photo. Hard to say. 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:16.800 But but so it either had a rhet or a 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.080 brown hole. Uh. It was between southeast Froline Island and 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.920 the middle fair Allone Island, which is two miles northwest. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:24.879 He also said he wasn't sure what direction it was 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.560 going in. It was you know, again he didn't have 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.080 any reason to think anything unusual. Was he was another 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:34.800 boat on the water exactly, and so he glanced saw 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.000 this boat out there, So he wasn't sure what direction 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:38.600 it was going, and he he was thinking maybe it 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.720 was going west or maybe north. He didn't have binoculars, 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.760 he didn't actually spend a lot of time looking at it, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.000 and so and he also, by the way, it wasn't 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:47.720 wearing a watch. Didn't know was the time. He said, 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.240 it could have anywhere been anywhere between noon and three pm, 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.560 So he didn't know, uh, And after he thought about it, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.800 and again this could be his memory playing tricks too, 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.800 because I know my memory messes would be sometimes thought 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.720 about it hard and that the boat mainsail was up 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.520 and the jib was furled. The jib is the sail 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.440 in the front, so that's the mainsail, the one in 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.400 the back, and then the jib is a small triangular 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.159 one up in the front. When they say furled, that 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.959 means just you know, rolled up, folded up, whatever. And 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.240 what is that? What does that mean? That means it's 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.560 not up it's not no, I'm sorry, but like if 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.000 like why would you have the jim furled? One reason 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.679 I could think of is if you have if you're 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.520 getting enough wind anyway, and you're single handedly and excuse me, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:34.480 you're single handed handing the single handing the boat. You 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.520 tried to say, it is a little it is less 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.919 work because you, yeah, when you got it, when you 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.400 when you got attack, and say you're heading forty five 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.439 degrees off the wind, when you got attack, you bring it, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.000 bring it around, and all you gotta do is just 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.679 remember the duck when the main boom kind of swinging 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.840 back across you, and then it will and that's it. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.560 Whereas if if you have a jib up, then what 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.240 that means what you gotta do is when you attack, 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.399 you gotta get up there, let the rope loose. And 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.560 actually probably could do all this from the cock because 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.639 I think this boat was set up for single handed sailing. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.160 I would assume, yeah, you have to let the one race. Yeah, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.840 so you gotta let the one rope loose on the 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.879 one side, and then when the jim comes around on 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.520 the other side, you gotta take it back in and 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.680 wind it up on the winch and tighten into everything. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.800 So if you're feeling a little lazy, then with the 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.840 mainsail again, all you gotta do is just let that 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.280 boom go boom outside and over to the other and 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.760 that's it. And so you would do that if you were, like, 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.040 if it were leisure and you were getting enough wind 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.560 and you weren't in a hurry, and yeah, exactly, and 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.639 if you didn't have any hands, and of course, you know, 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.159 if you're out there with some people and you're all 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.040 kind of bored, and actually that kind of stuff can 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.080 be kind of fun occupied. But apparently he wasn't really 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.560 into it that day. But that's okay. He wasn't a 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.959 hug if that was even him, which we don't really know, 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.800