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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Such Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guess is NARDA. Michael Walder, musician, producer extraordinaire. You

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Speaker 1: have a new album. Why now it feels good?

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Speaker 2: Man? I still up my jesues, my vitality, I still

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Speaker 2: feel sexy. I still feel young, like nineteen vibe coming down.

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Speaker 2: And I love to sing and play. So it's just

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Speaker 2: my offering to the world to always keep music in

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Speaker 2: the world. It's my job, it's my passion, it's my

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Speaker 2: lift for so it makes me feel good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but the game has changed since you started,

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Speaker 1: and it's much harder to get recognized. How does that

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Speaker 1: feel in terms of recording it, you know, and getting

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Speaker 1: the music heard?

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Speaker 2: Well, the recording is the same, the process. I enjoy

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Speaker 2: making the songs, producing records, do what I do. You're

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Speaker 2: right about the actual game how to get heard. So

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Speaker 2: I just pimped YouTube, Spotify's whatever there are out there,

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Speaker 2: and whatever radios are kind to me to play me.

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Speaker 1: I want it all. But you're right.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a big major, you know, pumping it

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Speaker 2: down on the hour hour.

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Speaker 1: I missed that tremendously. I really do. Okay, you have

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Speaker 1: a track on the album That's Got Superstars, Sting, Stevie Wonder,

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Speaker 1: Carlos Santana. How did that come together?

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Speaker 2: Oh God, bless you, thank you so much. Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: song I kind of started working on years years back.

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Speaker 2: It's a process. Carlos Santana inspired me with this African music,

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Speaker 2: and I took one of those ideas I heard and

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Speaker 2: then made a new jam called the More I Love

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Speaker 2: My Life, and I asked Carlos come play on it,

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Speaker 2: and he did. And when playing with Carlos, I got

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Speaker 2: the inspiration to have Stevie Wonder do harmonica work with me.

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Speaker 2: So I made spaces for Stevie and get Stevie right away.

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Speaker 2: I then went to New York to do a rainforest

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Speaker 2: show with Sting, one of the I do like thirteen shows.

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Speaker 2: One of those shows, he came early. I said, come in,

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Speaker 2: come in early. It's like, have you record a vocal

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Speaker 2: on this song I've got for you.

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Speaker 1: He was very kind.

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Speaker 2: He came in the studio Jamanndricks's studio, Let's Letric lady

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Speaker 2: Land Studios, and just sang it quickly, beautiful harmonized little thing,

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Speaker 2: and we were so happy with a good sound. I

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Speaker 2: then went to Los Angeles where you are, I think,

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Speaker 2: and got Capitol Studios Stevie Wonder. He came in with

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Speaker 2: a box of harmonicas and found the right key for

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Speaker 2: the song. And then when they started hearing what the

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Speaker 2: Carlos was playing, what was going on, then he kind

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Speaker 2: of little the fire started doing these amazing things on harmonica.

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Speaker 2: So it just kind of came together magically. But now

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Speaker 2: it's the right time to put it out. I thought,

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Speaker 2: didn't want to wait it longer, and I found a

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Speaker 2: partner named Leno nort Nicolosi, who's just a good cat

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Speaker 2: to kind of bounce my ideas with and keep us

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Speaker 2: sounding kind of fresh for now, and that's what we did,

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Speaker 2: put it together for now to come out.

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Speaker 1: So I'm happy that. Well, let's go to the route.

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Speaker 1: The song is inspired by another song, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell me about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, there's a cat named Ishmaelo with two French

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Speaker 2: cats that put together the song very similar, and Ishmaelo

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Speaker 2: inspired me so much. In fact, he's singing something on

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Speaker 2: this version. I want his voice for that Africa connection.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's all it is. It's just like a

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Speaker 2: beautiful melody I loved and to put my own lyrics

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Speaker 2: with a cat name Jeffery Cohen, who helped me compose

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Speaker 2: Freeway of Love for Rutha. Franklin's a great lyric writer.

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Speaker 2: We put together a new idea around this idea we'd heard,

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Speaker 2: and that's the more I love my life exactly as

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Speaker 2: it is. The more I love my life, the more

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Speaker 2: I feel your kiss.

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Speaker 1: This is the message. So how do you know these people?

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Speaker 1: How do you know Carlos? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Okay, good question. I've met Carlos and I was like

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Speaker 2: about damn nineteen years old because I came to mah Vishnina.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to become a disciple of of of Guru

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Speaker 2: Fishtration Moy with Mahavish and Jah mcglalklin for the spirituality

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Speaker 2: of the love, so I wouldn't die. My heroes were

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Speaker 2: like Jimmy Hendrick's Okay, that's my hero and my generation

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Speaker 2: could could die so easily. So when I heard John

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Speaker 2: mcglalklin playing his music with Marvish Orchestra in Harvard, Connecticut

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Speaker 2: with Billy Cobbham, just on fire and so pure. And

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Speaker 2: when I met John that night, he told me it

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Speaker 2: was largely due to his prayer life, his meditation life

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Speaker 2: that was helping him. And I said, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: I see on the back of your album Jackets, these

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Speaker 2: poems by your Guru. He said, I'm going to see

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Speaker 2: the Guru at six in the morning in Queens, New York,

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Speaker 2: and I'll tell him I met you. And from that

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Speaker 2: moment I got a phone call back, like maybe like

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Speaker 2: a week later, he said, come meet the Guru. He'll

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Speaker 2: be in Norwak, Connecticut. Go meet him. I was very

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Speaker 2: surprised at Marvis dud this great man would call me. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I lived way up in the woods in Canaan, Connecticut

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Speaker 2: with another band called the New Maguire Sisters, which was

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Speaker 2: Ralph armstrong On based with some bad cats. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: when he called me, I was so surprised. Look Abraham

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Speaker 2: Lincoln calling me. He called me the phones that come

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Speaker 2: come to meditation. I wanted to meet meet, to meet

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Speaker 2: the Guru. I became a disciple that night. It really

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Speaker 2: inspired my life to kind of feel like I had

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Speaker 2: been found by the Mavish new his teacher to inspire

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Speaker 2: me and kind of keep me going. And not long

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Speaker 2: after Johnson's come from visit me in Queens, I went

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Speaker 2: to Queens and when I went to Queen's to go

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Speaker 2: visit him. Out of his house walks Carlos Santana, and

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Speaker 2: of course we all know Carlo Santana, so it's a

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Speaker 2: big to do to meet him. And he was also

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Speaker 2: a disciple and we've been friends ever since seventy three.

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Speaker 1: Actually, okay, how were you with the gig? And how

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Speaker 1: did you meet John McLaughlin?

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Speaker 2: Very sweet, thank you. I walked in the gig. I

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Speaker 2: had a limousine driver named Greg Fell, our manager had

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Speaker 2: an old limousine drove me down from Canaan, Connecticut to.

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Speaker 1: Heart for Connecticut.

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Speaker 2: And when I got there, as God would have it,

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Speaker 2: there was a bright shining light on the stage and

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Speaker 2: Mab Schnu with a double a guitar was going at

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Speaker 2: it hardcore with Billy cobbmon on drums in some odd

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Speaker 2: meter of nineteen whatever.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 2: So incredible to this day it stained my soul, the

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Speaker 2: power and the magisty of what they were doing, just

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Speaker 2: the two of them. And then they would stop on

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Speaker 2: a diam if they wanted to, and go back at it.

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Speaker 1: And I was so meserzed.

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Speaker 2: I went right down to the lip of the stage

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Speaker 2: to look up in his eyes and see what's going on,

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Speaker 2: you know, is it memorize what's he doing? And I

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Speaker 2: see his eyes back in his head, and then I

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Speaker 2: realized it's just like he's in a trance and these

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Speaker 2: notes are like bullets flung out a guitar, just channeling

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Speaker 2: his higher being and that's what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: That so turned me on.

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Speaker 2: I said, this is what I want to do. I

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Speaker 2: want to be able to do what I see him

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Speaker 2: do tonight. Just channel my higher being what he's doing.

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Speaker 2: No drugs, you know, no no LSD, no more, no

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Speaker 2: more stuff, just pure, pure soul, pure God.

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Speaker 1: And uh.

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Speaker 2: That night in the audience, I met a disciple I

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Speaker 2: could tell his all white, had shorty air.

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Speaker 1: His name was a paik Shah. He recently just passed away.

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Speaker 2: But in the audience theory was and I said, hey,

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Speaker 2: I have to meet meet my Vishnu. I met Anna Carmel.

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Speaker 2: I did another disciple in Florida when I was living

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Speaker 2: down there. Hook me up so I can just go

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Speaker 2: backstage and meet him. He said, okay, wait and I

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Speaker 2: waited and he came back and got me and I

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Speaker 2: went back in the back stage area and there was

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Speaker 2: like two little rooms back there and on one other

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Speaker 2: room which is locked off. I could hear Cobbin Janhamer.

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Speaker 2: Those cats just talking high energy talk like coal trane talk,

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Speaker 2: you know, McCoy tyner talk, just you know, really high.

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Speaker 2: And then poked his hat out and said, wait in

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Speaker 2: that small room right there for me. So I waited

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Speaker 2: in a little small room and then when he came in,

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Speaker 2: it was life changing. His face was so beautiful and

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Speaker 2: his speak was so English slash black mixture. I never

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Speaker 2: heard anything like it. How are you, brother, I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm really great man. My name is Michael Walden. I

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Speaker 2: played drums. I want to be like you, and I

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Speaker 2: just told him, you know, so that's how I was

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Speaker 2: able to meet him.

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Speaker 1: Are you still a disciple today?

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Speaker 2: Yes, the Guru has passed on, but in my heart

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Speaker 2: of hearts, the messages I've learned are with me every day,

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Speaker 2: which is very simple. Just to have more love, more

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Speaker 2: love and compassion.

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Speaker 1: You okay, the Guru gave you a new name. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about that.

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Speaker 2: Well, that didn't come to like later on by I

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Speaker 2: would have long time to get a name. I became

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Speaker 2: a disciple, you know when I was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: seven seventy three, and then I didn't get a name.

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Speaker 2: Like seventy six, just before my first solo album, Garden

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Speaker 2: Love Light, I already made wired all the Mafish orchestras

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Speaker 2: I had no I was Michael. He said, at the

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Speaker 2: time is now for you to receive your name. I

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Speaker 2: never wanted to spoil you, but the time is now.

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Speaker 2: And he said it's called God's hour. This is God's

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Speaker 2: hour for you to receive your name. And when he

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Speaker 2: gave him my name, I was kind of like, like

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Speaker 2: very prayerful, and he started chanting like.

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Speaker 1: No row.

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Speaker 2: Dum this when on round and round and round and around.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know if my name was my name is.

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Speaker 2: Nah Rah or dah until he said Narada Narda, your

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Speaker 2: soul is sweet. Your soul brings from heaven to Earth light,

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Speaker 2: delight and compassion and takes back to Heaven from earth

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Speaker 2: earth sufferings. Throw yourself into your music. Throw yourself into

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Speaker 2: your music. And then he said the name Narda was

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Speaker 2: a name from a sage to a sage who lived

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Speaker 2: in India who had three different Indian incarnations. You want

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Speaker 2: to hear about those, yeah, he said, Narda's soul first

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Speaker 2: was a young boy. He lived in the woods, with

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Speaker 2: his mother, who served the hermits. She served the hermits

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Speaker 2: their food as they would meditate and pray, and Narda

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Speaker 2: would help serve the food. And Guru said, one day

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Speaker 2: the mother died of a snake bite, and the hermits

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Speaker 2: took Narda in and they taught him how to pray

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Speaker 2: and meditate. And Guru said, the first time that he

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Speaker 2: learned to pray and meditate, he had a vision of

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Speaker 2: God in his heart. He said, it never happened again

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Speaker 2: in that lifetime, just that one time he had a

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Speaker 2: vision of God in his heart. Then in the second

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Speaker 2: lifetime he came back to the planet as Narda again.

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Speaker 2: And then Guru said, temptation really caught him. In this lifetime,

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Speaker 2: he had fifty wives and they drove him crazy. Then

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Speaker 2: he went back to heaven. After that lifetime, he said,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go back to Earth anymore. But

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Speaker 2: then God said, no, you're going back to the third incarnation,

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Speaker 2: and this incarnation you'll be Narda. But I will give

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Speaker 2: you spiritual music to play on the vina. I'll teach

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Speaker 2: you spiritual songs to sing. And then Guru said, in

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Speaker 2: this lifetime is the lifetime that became more known for

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Speaker 2: Narada as far as the blacka ba Ghita come. You

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Speaker 2: know stories how it could appear and disappear. And then

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Speaker 2: he said, I want to tell you one story about

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Speaker 2: Narda in this lifetime, as far as the third incarnation

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Speaker 2: of Narada and waiting for God's hour, so he said,

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Speaker 2: one day, Narda was walking along the road and he

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Speaker 2: saw a very austere man meditating in preys by a tree.

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Speaker 2: And the austere man recognized Narda, and he said, Narda,

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Speaker 2: on your way back to heaven, would you ask God

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Speaker 2: about my realization? And Narda said yes, I will. And

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Speaker 2: then Nada walked further along that road and he saw

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Speaker 2: kind of a crazy fellow, a lunatic fellow, and the

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Speaker 2: crazy fellow kind of jokingly asked Narda, Oh, Narda, on

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Speaker 2: your way back to heaven, would you ask God about

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Speaker 2: my realization? And Nada said yes, I will. So then

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Speaker 2: when Nada went back to heaven, God said, tell the

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Speaker 2: first austere gentleman, very good news for him. It is

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Speaker 2: only a matter of thirty short years and he would

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Speaker 2: realize me in this lifetime. But tell the lunatic the

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Speaker 2: crazy fellow, tell him that as many leaves as are

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Speaker 2: on the Tamarin tree where he's standing. That is how

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Speaker 2: many lifetimes you will have to take to come back

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Speaker 2: to earth before he will realize me. So Narda goes

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Speaker 2: back to Earth. He's walking along that road again. There

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Speaker 2: he sees the austere gentleman. He says to the austere gentleman,

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Speaker 2: I have very good news for you. The good Lord

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Speaker 2: has said it is only a matter of thirty short

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Speaker 2: years and you will realize me in this lifetime. And

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Speaker 2: the man said, you mean it will take me thirty

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Speaker 2: more years of meditation. That seems to be such a

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Speaker 2: long time. Then Narda tried to explain to him that

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Speaker 2: he could easily do this, that thirty years would go

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Speaker 2: by quickly, he would have a good time meditation and

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Speaker 2: see God in this life.

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Speaker 1: But the man wasn't happy with this news. The austere

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Speaker 1: gentleman was not happy with this news.

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Speaker 2: Narda kept walking down that road further and then he

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Speaker 2: sees the crazy lunatic, the crazy fellow, and the lunatic

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Speaker 2: again jokingly says, so, Narda, did you ask God about

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Speaker 2: my realization? And Narda said, yes, I did. Do you

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Speaker 2: see all these leaves on this tree, on this on

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Speaker 2: this on this tamarin tree. And the gentleman said, yes,

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Speaker 2: I do. I see all the leaves. And Narda said,

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Speaker 2: as many leaves as are on this tamarin tree. That

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Speaker 2: is how many lifetimes you must come back to the

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Speaker 2: earth before you ever realize God. And Lunsik said, you mean.

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Speaker 1: I will realize God. He started dancing.

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Speaker 2: He started singing very soulfully that Narda told him one

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Speaker 2: day he realized God. This so pleased God watching this

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Speaker 2: whole thing unfold, that God granted him instant realization at

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Speaker 2: that moment. Then gru said, this is the story of

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Speaker 2: waiting for God's hour. God's hour is now here for

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Speaker 2: you to receive your name, Narda. So this is how

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Speaker 2: I received my name Narada, which means supreme musician.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what is Shri shin Moy's basic philosophy basic religious philosophy?

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Speaker 2: Schrechin MOI comes from ponditary India in the Shri Rabindo Ashram,

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Speaker 2: raised in the Ashram. And it's love, It's bakhdi, it's

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Speaker 2: bacta yoga, it's love. He breaks it down into love, devotions,

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Speaker 2: surrender to God, the three steps to love God, to

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Speaker 2: have devotion to God, have surrender. So it's looking at

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Speaker 2: life in that regard of love, which is the most

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Speaker 2: important of all devotion. To have devotion, and then surrender

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Speaker 2: is really for me being happy, being happy with my life.

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Speaker 2: I feel like when I'm happy, my sail is up.

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Speaker 2: I can catch God's grace. I can feel the love

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Speaker 2: and work with the love and be inspired to talk

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Speaker 2: to you. Now, Bobby, be inspired talk to you. I'm

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Speaker 2: looking forward to talking to you.

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Speaker 1: Is this the same God that other people pray to

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Speaker 1: in other Western religions or Eastern religions. Is it all

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Speaker 1: the same God or a different God?

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Speaker 2: Well, God is God. But you know we look at

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Speaker 2: God in different ways and that's all good. So you know,

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Speaker 2: in fact, Groom, I say, God could appear to him

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Speaker 2: as a child. God can appear to him as a

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Speaker 2: old man. God can appear in different different forms. But

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Speaker 2: the creator, the energy of God is one one source.

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Speaker 2: And I look at like spirituality and religion. Look a tree.

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Speaker 2: A tree has many many branches, you know, Buddhist and

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Speaker 2: Protestant and Catholic and all these different ways of looking

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Speaker 2: at God, Muslims. But then guruus say, aspire to be

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Speaker 2: one with the roots of the tree. So no matter

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Speaker 2: what the branches are, you still have love and see God.

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Speaker 2: So this is where I'm coming from. My life is

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Speaker 2: spirituality to love God in all forms. But the Creator

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Speaker 2: that I love in.

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Speaker 1: My personal heart inspires my music, inspires my life, inspires

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Speaker 1: everything I do. Okay, if you go back to this era,

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Speaker 1: you were a follower of the Guru. So was John McLauchlan,

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Speaker 1: Carlos c and Tiana Pete Townshend. Are they all still

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Speaker 1: followers now?

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Speaker 2: Mavish Knew is very much in touch with the same

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Speaker 2: spirit of Guru. He'll ask me, am I talking to

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Speaker 2: the different disciples or you know how I'm doing in

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Speaker 2: my spiritual life. So he's still very conc connected, and

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Speaker 2: so is Carlos. Carlos will put out aphorisms of Guru

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Speaker 2: with some music going on, and he's very much talking

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Speaker 2: to me about the things he learned on the spiritual

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Speaker 2: life in the Spurgi of path that was life changing

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Speaker 2: for him. Pete Townsend, you mentioned he was never a

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Speaker 2: disciple that I knew of. I went and saw Pete

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Speaker 2: Townsend with who at Madis Square Garden. John took me

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Speaker 2: to go and see him and I met him. Now

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Speaker 2: in my life, but he wasn't a disciple, but Mavish

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Speaker 2: knew was clearly there, very voted and Carlos Santana's well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that gig where you go to see the

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Speaker 1: mahel Vishnu Orchestra, you're in a band at that time, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I am.

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Speaker 2: The band at that time was called the New McGuire

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Speaker 2: Sisters with Santa Churan on guitar, a brilliant guitar player.

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Speaker 2: We'd flown Ralph Armstrong in from Detroit who was about

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Speaker 2: sixteen seventeen years old. He was brilliant on piano. Another

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Speaker 2: Captain Detroit and Billy McCoy and we had a little

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Speaker 2: manager and we'd rock out every day in our barn

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Speaker 2: and this barn was incredible. We could just like take

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Speaker 2: an inspiration from Mavis Schnorkers, taken inspision with things, be

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Speaker 2: loved whether whatever they were, and just you know, hone

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Speaker 2: our crafts and get strong, build our muscles. Playing in seven,

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Speaker 2: nine eleven different times of signatures with the funk and

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Speaker 2: I can develop myself as a drummer. So it's really

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Speaker 2: important to have that that time in my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And what was the status of the band.

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Speaker 1: How successful were they?

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Speaker 2: It was trying to become successful with a cat named

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Speaker 2: TiO Massaro, who was the producer for Miles Davis. But

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Speaker 2: then that never really worked out, and that was part

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Speaker 2: of my frustration. I kind of felt like, how am

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Speaker 2: I ever going to make it? Am I ever going

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Speaker 2: to make it? That was always my prayer, how will

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Speaker 2: I make it? Because I really want it to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, able to make a living with music and

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Speaker 2: not just struggle.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're originally from the Midwest. I am from

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Speaker 1: Klamua Zuo, Michigan, Kalamazoom, Michigan. And what kind of circumstances

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Speaker 1: did you grow up in? Uh, circumstances. I'm born in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two April twenty third, and we're not raised

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Speaker 1: with like a lot a lot of money, but there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of love.

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Speaker 2: My mom was aldost a six. In her family, they're

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Speaker 2: very music driven. They love music. My mom aunt Mary,

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Speaker 2: the twins Vicka and Valerie, Edgar and Travis, they love

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Speaker 2: the music and they're always playing the music. And that's

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Speaker 2: where I got, uh the inspiration to hear the music

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Speaker 2: so early in my life, hearing Nina Simon when I'm

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Speaker 2: four years old, cannibell Adelie, you know, Dave brew Beck,

361
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Speaker 2: Jimmy Smith. Everything played in the house, even Everly Brothers,

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Speaker 2: Patty Page, Okay Cod Johnny Mathis. Everything is being played

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Speaker 2: all the time. That was so important for my life.

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Speaker 2: Then my dad was eighteen years old when he had me.

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Speaker 2: My mom was nineteen, and he wanted to be a drummer.

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Speaker 2: But he was a drummer. But he wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a drummer. So he'd bring him an album of Max

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Speaker 2: Roach versus Buddy Rich so I could hear that kind

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Speaker 2: of thing going on. So we weren't raised over like

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Speaker 2: a lot a lot of money. In fact, they were custodians.

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Speaker 2: They would clean buildings. My grandfather would clean all the

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Speaker 2: buildings in downtown Kalamba Zoo. But I learned something from

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Speaker 2: that watching them and working with them, how to be efficient.

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Speaker 2: Boom boom, boom boom, get things done quickly, make things

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Speaker 2: clean quickly, do things quickly, which has served me to

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Speaker 2: this day as a producer. But that's how I was

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Speaker 2: raised up in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: And how many kids in the family. I'm the oldest

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Speaker 1: of six.

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Speaker 2: There's me, there's Ron, who's passed away in Heaven, Cavin

381
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Speaker 2: whos passed away in Caaven, Chris has passed away in heaven.

382
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Speaker 2: And then my two sisters, Yolanda and Edie. Yolanda flies

383
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Speaker 2: for the Alaska Airlines, and he is a doctor out

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Speaker 2: here for children.

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Speaker 1: And what did the rest of them do in their lives?

386
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Speaker 2: Oh Ron was like a carpenter for a long time,

387
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Speaker 2: then became a bartender, had.

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Speaker 1: Some issues with alcohol, and the Good Lord took him

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Speaker 1: out of here.

390
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Speaker 2: Kevin, my brother, Kevin, was a manager for me for

391
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Speaker 2: a long time, worked at worked worked with me very beautifully.

392
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Speaker 2: When I was doing my Wooden Houston stuff, you know,

393
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: Shanny Schwolson stuff, havivn Campbell stuff. We went to Japan

394
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Speaker 2: together with a lot of a lot of great things.

395
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Speaker 2: My mom kind of passed away, which he looked after

396
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Speaker 2: my mom. I kind of felt he kind of lost

397
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Speaker 2: some business inspiration and he went to heaven.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're going to school, Yeah, what's that like.

399
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Speaker 1: You're a good student, you're a popular kid, you're isolated?

400
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Speaker 1: What kind of kid are you? In school?

401
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: It was all hard. Studies were hard. We went from Kalamazoo, Michigan.

402
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: I moved. See, I did my kindergarten first half a

403
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Speaker 2: first grade in Kalamazoo, then moved to a place called Plainwell

404
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 2: the second half of first grade. And that was a

405
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 2: very strange kind of period of the way out in

406
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 2: the country, you know, realizing I was in the same

407
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 2: color as everybody else. That was first when I heard

408
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: the N word out there, It's like, wow, what is

409
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 2: all this going on? But I fell in love with

410
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Speaker 2: some of the kids in the school. A little girl

411
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Speaker 2: in particular, was so beautiful. So I went to the

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Speaker 2: public school from in Plainwell second half of first grade.

413
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Speaker 2: In all second grade, I fell in love with my teacher,

414
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Speaker 2: Missus Prowdy. She was so beautiful. Then from third grade

415
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Speaker 2: to eighth grade, we had to take a second bus

416
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Speaker 2: to go to a place called Otzigo, Michigan for Saint Margaret's.

417
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Speaker 2: That was a Catholic school. We had massive morning you

418
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Speaker 2: pray every morning, and I prayed for drum sets. I'd

419
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Speaker 2: bring my drum magazine, prayed for the drum sets, you know,

420
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: greens or red, sparkle whatever. So that's how I was

421
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, making it in my life.

422
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Speaker 2: Then my grandfather was really kind to me for the

423
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars bill in sixty one sixty two bought

424
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: my first drum set, a bass drum, a snare drum, cymbol,

425
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: cow bell and woodblock, and that really freed me. I

426
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: really had. I was so looking forward to to the

427
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: drums I could just play. And then for Christmas they

428
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: got a high hat, so that was also very very important.

429
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so how did you know you wanted to play

430
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: the drums? Oh man?

431
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: Born and born to play music. You don't understand me.

432
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 2: When I'm little, I watched record spin and just be

433
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: hypnotized watching the record spin, or stare at an album jacket,

434
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: you know, a woman dancing to the mambo or whatever.

435
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: Or here Peggy Lee and you're sharing, you know, the

436
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: beauty in the in the beat. Or just tap along,

437
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: get a pie, ten, get a box, play the Nimon's

438
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: Laba town all play along with horse silvers, six pieces

439
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: of silver. There was a cat out of Detroit we

440
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: all heard about named Lewis Hay. He'd be eighteen years

441
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: old when I'm four or five. He was, and they

442
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: would say he's he's a hot new cat. So I

443
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 2: just try and play.

444
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: Along with him.

445
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: So that's how it always was just music all the time.

446
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: My family loved it, loved it. You understand when you're

447
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: hearing the radio even twisted and shot by Oisley Brothers.

448
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: He'd be like life changing the sound of the record.

449
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 2: Small things are big things, and don't forget in Michigan,

450
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 2: the snow, the cold. You know you're indoors, so you

451
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 2: find things to do indoors. So playing on, playing music

452
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: and playing the piano very important. And then I have

453
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: to also say to you, like different sides of me,

454
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 2: one side by be hearing like the who I can

455
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: see for Miles and Miles get a little guitar player

456
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 2: over the basement and bash with him. Then I'd have

457
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 2: another friend and kalamazoo. My little black friend, nam Joel Brooks.

458
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 2: We put together a little group called the Ambassadors. He

459
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 2: played like Oregan. I played drums. We'd do like our

460
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: little Jimmy Smith stuff. And his uncle would own a

461
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: night club call the Ambassador Lounge where I can go

462
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 2: in there and kind of play for the people before

463
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 2: Jim McGriff would come in or whoever's gonna come into

464
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: town to play. So early exposure in my life that

465
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: was really important, really important. Little talent shows. Yeah, okay,

466
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: are you self taught her?

467
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: Did you take lessons? I'm I have a god gift

468
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: of it, of it a natural thing.

469
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: But then I learned snare drum from a cat named

470
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: Tom Carey downtown Kalamazoo at Bobby Davidson's music store. Tom

471
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: carry be downstairs and he would teach me the rudiments,

472
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: you know, five stroke, seven stroke, you know, paradittals, and

473
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: how to strengthen my left hand.

474
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: So that was important.

475
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: And then I found another teacher on the north side

476
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: kalama Zoo named Harold Mason. He then became the druman

477
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: for Stevie Wonder and he would teach me independency. He

478
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: would say, there's a book by a cantnamed Jim Chapin

479
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: called the Blue Book of Independency, and I need you

480
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: to break your mind up so you can do change

481
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: jan and changeing with your right hand. And then when

482
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: your left hand play against it whatever it is written

483
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: out different things against it, so you're playing two different things.

484
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: Then you incorporate your feet into it, you know, you

485
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: bring your basetrum into it, you bring your high end

486
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: to it, and now your brain's thinking four different ways.

487
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: So he was hero Mason was instrumental in breaking up

488
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: my It's called independency. So I could be free on

489
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: four different things, and if you sing, it's five. So

490
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: I have to have to give a lot of love

491
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: to that time of my life, which is hard to

492
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: kind of master, like riding a bike. But then once

493
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: you kind of get it, it feels good to you. In fact,

494
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: if I'm honest with you, it's just now my life

495
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: that I'm kind of free with it.

496
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: I could take all those lessons in me and be

497
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 1: free with it. Yeah, okay, so you're playing When do

498
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: you start playing out with other people? How old are

499
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: you with the Ambassadors of the eleven got eleven? Yeah, eleven.

500
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: Do you finish high school? Yes? I do.

501
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: I left home though I left home my second, my

502
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: junior and senior years of high school. I left home

503
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: because I needed to kind of just branch out more now,

504
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: and I worked at a place called the sanitarium where

505
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: I could make my living. You know, you take care

506
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: of the kids who ran away or burn the house down.

507
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: You play music for them, you know, like Calm Leaven

508
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: on a jet play. You put those kind of songs

509
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: for those kids, kind of calm them, and then you

510
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: go to what's called seclusion wards from seven thir to

511
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: nine nine o'clock, there's four seclusion rooms. You clean them,

512
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: wash the chain, the bedding, you know, wash them, you know,

513
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: unstrap them, all those things, put them back because they

514
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: had metal issues.

515
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: So I learned that early in my life, different sides

516
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: of people's. And then at the same time, I have

517
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: my little bands.

518
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: At that time, i'd have a band called this is

519
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: this is in the far where I played keyboards, left hand, bass,

520
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 2: right hand organ whatever, sing it, get the smells, play drums,

521
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: and then have bands like that. So and then you

522
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: learn the most current song pongs like Junior Walker's uh

523
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: what does it take? Because he's from Battle Creek, Michigan

524
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: not far away. Chris Motown music is so close. Chicago's

525
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: so close. It's all right there. So yeah, I understand,

526
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 2: you know. And then you're you're playing out for people,

527
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: You're you're you're always around the experience. And then even

528
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: like high school, Okay, your prom, I didn't go to

529
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: the problem.

530
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: I played the prom. You know, and you know who

531
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: you are. You're playing expressway to your heart town. You know,

532
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: you're you're rocking. So it's all that kind of thing happening. Yeah, yeah,

533
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: So how'd you learn how to play the organ? Uh?

534
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: I love the bass lines of Jimmy Smith, and I

535
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: have my friend Joe Brooks teaching me the base lines

536
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: because the baselines themselves are just like genius.

537
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: Man.

538
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: That he could play that and play the comp and

539
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: the lead on top and his feet is mind blowing.

540
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: People don't understand what a genius Jimmy Smith is and

541
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: those organ players players of that time.

542
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: So I had Joel Joel teach me how to play

543
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: the baselines, you know. Yeah, okay, you talk about top

544
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: forty hits like Expressway to your Heart, you talk about jazz,

545
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: you talk about I can see for miles. Oh yeah,

546
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: there's a corner kopy of music. Where are you and

547
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: where do you think you want to go?

548
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: At that point, I didn't know. I didn't know everything. Obviously,

549
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: I'm very tender at that time in my life. You know,

550
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: my dad would say, well, you know, you can sing

551
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: the Beatles stuff of you know, Hugh say hello, I

552
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: say goodbye. You can take that kind of thing. Maybe

553
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: we should do a family group. I said, no, we

554
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: shouldn't do a family group. Dad, don't let's not do

555
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: a family group, you know. But you know, I just

556
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 2: always loved just doing it. So I didn't know where

557
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: was it really go as far as my life. I

558
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: just knew that was what I did.

559
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: Every day.

560
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: I'd rush home from school to hear Soul Serenac in Choris.

561
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: I'd rush home from school to hear April and Paris,

562
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: you know count Basie, you know the drums. I'd rush

563
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: home from school to hear maybe the beginning of Johnny

564
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: mathis boo doo do ya boo, do do ya boo

565
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: do do boo doo de yabooy deeta doody boo, you know,

566
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: so a certain smile. I would always be like infatuated

567
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: with that. But I didn't know to tell you what

568
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: was gonna actually come up come of it. All I

569
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: ever knew was as I got a little bit older,

570
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 2: you know, my grandpa would always say, you know, can

571
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: you make a living playing this music?

572
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: So that would be all my mind.

573
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: And then I went to college about three semesters and

574
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: I realized that wasn't gonna work for me because I

575
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: wasn't able to play drums enough in this college. So

576
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: on my last day of semesters. This band came through

577
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: town called Decon Williams and Sole Revival, these white cats

578
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: from Fresno out in Kalamazoo in a school bus. They said,

579
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: we heard about you and we want you to join

580
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: us and come play some some clubs with us, iputed

581
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: by drums. And then in that in that bus we

582
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: head off to Flint, Flint, Michigan and played some like

583
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: Little I Hado type clubs and some other little clubs

584
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: around the area. Came back even through Kalamazoo, played them there.

585
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: The band was funky. There were some funky white boys

586
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: and we were hitting it. And then we took off

587
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: to go out to California and that was my first

588
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: experience doing purple Haze, LSD and all that, which was incredible.

589
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: When we finally got to La you know, out in

590
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: Malibu and seeing the ocean and my brother and I

591
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: on the beach down there, you know, they're passing around

592
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: whatever little LSD and that then the water, the ocean

593
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: would come in. My brother took a big staff and

594
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: look at the water go red, you know, the ocean

595
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: wand comeing to red, orange or purple, and the water

596
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: coming to all those colors, and my mind got so

597
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: open on the LSD. But then after a while we

598
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: play some some shows in California, in La and all

599
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: that Hollywood, you know, and then that band broke up.

600
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,239
Speaker 2: I decided had stay in La. I'd stay in La.

601
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: And it was so hard to make it man, so hard, uh,

602
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: because La was kind of heartless. You could just down

603
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: the road and wouldn't have nobody even care. So again,

604
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: how am I gonna make it? This this eternal thing?

605
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: And then we had a cousin, a few cousins. One

606
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: cousin said, come and live with me for a while,

607
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: named Philip, Philip Hackley, my mom's family.

608
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: He took us in.

609
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: I had to brought my little drum set in the

610
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: little bedroom there so I could still play a little bit.

611
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: I got a job working downtown in LA at the

612
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: shipping receiving type place. You wrap clothing. You wrap clothing

613
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: as I'm wrapping clothing here in music all the time.

614
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: You wrap the clothing. Then I got smart one day

615
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I have another cousin. He's a doctor.

616
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: Maybe he can help me get a little further down

617
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: the road with this thing. So I called him.

618
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: His name is R. Hackley and I go to visit R. Hackley.

619
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: He had a he had a.

620
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: A doctor jointed out near Watts and I go out

621
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: and visit him, and he says, well, you know, you

622
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: can stay out out here in Watts area. And then

623
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: he sees my drum set. He says, wait a minute, No,

624
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: you can't stay here. They'll steal you. They'll steal your stuff.

625
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: You got to come with me out to Pasadena where

626
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: I live. Oh okay, So I got to Pasadena, up

627
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: in the hills of Altadina, beautiful place, I mean, swimming

628
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: pool everything. And he says, you take this bedroom and

629
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: you can practice in the back room. So all you

630
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: got to do is keep up place clean, maybe me

631
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 2: some food and take care of the house and then

632
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: you can practice here. Oh my god, that changed my life.

633
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: Now I got to play in practice and really go

634
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: at it. And I said, would work out. Man in Pasadena, California,

635
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: downtown the Mobbish Orchestra in the Mounting Flameboulm had just

636
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: come out. I had just nobody to buy that album,

637
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: and it was transformative, transformative. Anyone who can tell you

638
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: about that period of life will tell you that we'd

639
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: never heard anything like it. We know about funk from

640
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: James Brown, Cole Sweat, we know about jazz, we know

641
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: about even some in Indian music. You know Alice coaching

642
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: gott An Indian, the Indian music. But we've never heard

643
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: colblem with a vision new and with the Marshals playing

644
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: the funk in seven nine eleven, what like James Brown

645
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: would do on steroids and Fishud's screaming on the guitar,

646
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 2: such precise messages.

647
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: It was just like mind blowing. I was like, who

648
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: is this? What is this?

649
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: So I brought it home and then I was able

650
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: to study that and kind of shed on it. That

651
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: helped me a lot. Shed and I have different different bands,

652
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: like I have a cat named Eddie Hazel. He was

653
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: a guitar player from part of a Funkadelic and a

654
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: band called an album called Maggot Brains, and he was

655
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: a mean guitar player and he passed around was called

656
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: angel dust. You take one a hit of it and

657
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: be like in a different world. But the funk would

658
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: be so fast and so clean it prepared me.

659
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: He'd be.

660
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: Check like that you're playing man, oh my god, and

661
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: the music just flying around the room. I missed some

662
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: other cats up there too. A cat named Gregg on

663
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: bass just happened to knock on the door with dead

664
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 2: He says, hey, man, I hear you're playing drum from

665
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: ro down there.

666
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: Can I bring my base up here and play with you?

667
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: I said sure, And he brings this big old SVT

668
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: and big amplifier and he's playing. He is incredible.

669
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: I kept meeting these incredible cats. It just changed my life.

670
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: Helped me so much in La because I couldn't find

671
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 2: a gig, but at least I'm playing with these guys. Also,

672
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: I want to say I did another thing. I joined

673
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: this registry on Hollywood on sunset. Will you pay a

674
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: sort of amount of money to find musicians to play with?

675
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: You put your name in a drum book, then they'll

676
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: call you if they look for somebody. But that was

677
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: so hard too.

678
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: Man.

679
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: Oh god, I did meet one guy who put me

680
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: in a band. Uh. That was all right for a minute,

681
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 2: but then I did a bad thing. We were gonna

682
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: we're gonna play for this The Stones manager out in

683
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: La at this house which is really exotic house, and

684
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: an elite singer like like like a like a like

685
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: a doors type lead singer and this other count guitar

686
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: named Greg greg Beck was his name Greg Beck. He

687
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: was phenomenal organ cat bassing myself and my cousins of

688
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: all things said you want a little hit of a

689
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: of a spliff before you go on the stage. I said, sure,

690
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: take a little head of the spliff and I go

691
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: on and I'm playing this music. Uh billy billy prestons,

692
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: boun't get them?

693
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 1: She get calm, get coling.

694
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: You're playing this jam. And now the effects of this

695
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: spliff are hitting me because now I hit a symbol.

696
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: It's like sh drum do everything. He's like due delayed.

697
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: I'm so frightened. This has never happened in my life.

698
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: What what what? What's going on with my inside me?

699
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: And now on the singers starting to sing to his song,

700
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: and he's looking back at me like like a like

701
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 2: like a devil, like I'm ruining his career because I

702
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 2: really can't focus on the on the time, and I

703
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: feel terrible and I kind of stand up and I'm

704
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: barely able to kind of walk and I stumble off

705
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: the stage and this beautiful blonde haired angel taking care

706
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: of me. But the singer is like, I'm gonna kill

707
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 2: that nigga. I'm gonna kill him, and my cousins had

708
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: to rush me out of there. We'll come to find

709
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: out what I smoked was was this bad angel lost

710
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: put me out there, man. So that's why I realized

711
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: I really can't mess around with that stuff too much.

712
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: Man. I'm very sensitive and I've blown some some some

713
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: things in my life with this that kind of thing.

714
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: But then what happened.

715
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: Also, I had to get a job while I live

716
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: in Pastena at another nursing home, just to make make

717
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: some money. I'm working in the nursing home, and then

718
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 2: I got a phone call from Santa Torano out in

719
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: Florida of all places, because saying I'm gonna I'm playing

720
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna play with that Edgar Winner right now.

721
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: Put together new band, and I'm hearing about you fly

722
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: down to Florida and do an audition with me. I

723
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: never been on a plane before. I'm now just just

724
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: turning nineteen. So I fly from Pasadena down to Florida

725
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: to go meet this cat Santa Torana. When I get there,

726
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: it's like a paradise. They've got their own warehouse where

727
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: they can they can rock out there's a cat who

728
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: can be my own drum tech named Greg Gregor Jovin.

729
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: They have their own little manager. He was a paraplegic,

730
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 2: got blown up in the army. They have they have

731
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: a little bit of money. They're smoking their little grass

732
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: with the where they want. But they're playing a lot

733
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: of hand intense music, man, And that's where I can

734
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: really take what I learned from Florida, I mean from

735
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: La the Oceans of s s, you know, with my

736
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: symbol words and play the funk hard and then experiment

737
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: odd meters and bring it all together. That's where I

738
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 2: can really kind of find myself with the new MacGuire sisters.

739
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 2: And then in that setting I met Stan Simoley who

740
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 2: worked at the school, the Miami School. In the school

741
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: was intense bro over there they got Pat Mactheeney, Hiram Bullock,

742
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: Cliff Carter, Patti scalf who's then married Bruce Springsteen. Is

743
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 2: chuck a block with people who are like gonna be

744
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: the stars. And then down the road Stan would say,

745
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: you gotta go down the road and meet this base player.

746
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: So who's is a joco pastorist? Okay, but I go

747
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: on meet jocola we'll watch him play. He's dancing, funking,

748
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: carrying on like you know, Jocopastoris.

749
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: There he was.

750
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: And then Jacka says, once you come over to my house,

751
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: let's jam. So I go to his out and now

752
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 2: we're gonna jam together. You know, he wants playing seven.

753
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: I'm a Plan four, and then we switch it. I'm

754
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: a plan seven, He'll playing four. He was kind of

755
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: crazy like that. We had all these chops. So I

756
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: was like, okay, we became friends. We became friends Pat Mactheeni.

757
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: Also I rocked out with him. You know, just a

758
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 2: lot of that kind of time in Florida and very

759
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: hippie love, you know, Petuli Oil. People really trying to

760
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: further themselves. And that's also where I saw the picture

761
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: of Guru with Aina Carmel and that whole thing going on.

762
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: So I Miami opened my eyes to so many things beautiful.

763
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: Then that band then moved to Connecticut, like I was

764
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: Sonia Canaan, Connecticut, up up on a barn, you know,

765
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: late seventy two going into seventy three.

766
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: It was so cold up there.

767
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: But you know that's where I shut it more and

768
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: got myself together more and enough not long after I

769
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: was when I went that concert, met mavish New and

770
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: then he took me in. And then when I became

771
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: a disciple further on, I then moved from there to

772
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: not Queens quiet Rick quite yet but yeah down down

773
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: closer to New York where I could woods shehd more

774
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: and joined a band of disciples called Jotra. Grew said,

775
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: play with play with some disciples called Jottra, So I did.

776
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: That would be Omar Mesa who had a band called Mandrel,

777
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: and Gail Moran on keyboards and a few other people

778
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: like that. So I had a chance to work with them,

779
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: and that was wonderful. And then not long after, oh

780
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: I want to say this, I worked as a bus

781
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: boy at Mario's place, picking up slighetty dishes and all.

782
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,479
Speaker 2: That's how I made my living. And not long after

783
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: I got a phone call around Christmas time but that

784
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: year that from mar Vishnu and he would say, I'm

785
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: going to visit Guru in Puerto Rico and I'm gonna

786
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: call you from Puerto Rico. I said, okay, and he

787
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: called me around Christmas time he said, I met with

788
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: a Guru. I'm going to change the Mavis Orchestra. I

789
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: wonder know what you like to join the band. Now

790
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: you understand, Bobby, that's big, that's big talk, because that

791
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: band bloom bloom my mind be like joining the Beatles.

792
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: So I was just completely just you know, just an

793
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: awe and star struck.

794
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 2: And he said, when I come back from Puerto Rico,

795
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna come to you the house you're in now,

796
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: for the place you play with Gaelong people.

797
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: I'll go downstairs and I'll teach you how to play

798
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: with me. And he meant it.

799
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: When he came back home in jad January, he came

800
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: down on that basement and be just he and I

801
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: and we'd rock out, and he would say, okay, now

802
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: we're going to play in seven, and don't play the

803
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: down beats.

804
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna play nine. Don't play down beats. Now.

805
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: This was his big thing, this whole cat's mouse thing.

806
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: That's when I realized how deep he is.

807
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: This whole Indian.

808
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: Wisdom was so heavy in him that he could play

809
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: for like bars and bars and measures and measures without

810
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 2: ever getting a downbeat. So you really had to kind

811
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: of learn what he would call the shape of the

812
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 2: rhythm feel this shape of the rhythm, work with his

813
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 2: shape of the rhythm. And that's how I started really

814
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: feeling that because it's one thing for me. It's very

815
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: easy when I played with a bass player, he's playing

816
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: the Meley line to hook up to the odd meter,

817
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: but there's no bass now, it realized just upon me

818
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 2: to play with him. So he was really a wonderful

819
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: teacher for me and very patient and very beautiful. But

820
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: we didn't do too much of that. Then then he

821
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: wrote a piece called Him to Him. He said, bring

822
00:42:54,920 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: your bass player, Ralph Armstrong, bring Gail Moran. And then

823
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: we learned a piece called Him to Him.

824
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: But I want to say one more thing about that,

825
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: but if you don't before I go too far it

826
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: because there's one more thing happened just just to that

827
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: that was really really pivotal.

828
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 2: Just before he had asked me to join that band,

829
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: one thing happened that I really want you to know

830
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 2: about that was really pivotal in my life.

831
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: He came to let me see how how it happened.

832
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: He played a content with the Fish Orchestra the second

833
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 2: time I ever saw him, at the place called would

834
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: Tango would Preserve Outdoors, and I went to that show

835
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 2: and again I'm floored. It's outside by how genius and

836
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: the majesty of this band with Yan playing. Now Yan

837
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: is kicking serious behind back at Vishnu, incredible everything John plays,

838
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: He's playing right back on. Cobbin's on fire, the band's

839
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 2: on fire, Jerry Goodman's on fire. Who I saw with

840
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: a band called Flock in Chicago. Okay, Man, there it

841
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: is again, just in my face, in my face. This

842
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: time I go back to the with a house where

843
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: they're staying, and I meet Billy Cobbin for the first time.

844
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: He extends his hand to me. Cobblem's hand is like

845
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: a baby. The skin is like a baby, so tender.

846
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: It's mind blowing how he can play with all that

847
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: fire and intensity and have the skin of a baby.

848
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, how you doing that? And you say, when

849
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: I play with my fingers. So that was the first

850
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: I really heard about playing with your fingers. It's Cobb

851
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: I'm telling me this. So the Vicius says to me,

852
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 2: you lived out too far from here, right, I said, well,

853
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: I live in Canaan. He said, well, can you take

854
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: me there so I can play with you up there?

855
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 2: Said okay, So he wants me to drive his drive

856
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 2: his station wagon with his brand new Rex Bowl guitar

857
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: in the back of the station wagon to my house.

858
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: So here I'm driving him the genius with a double neck,

859
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: and he's sleeping over two to three hour drive to

860
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: my house. And what am I nineteen twenty years old?

861
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: I think this is incredible. But when they get to

862
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: my house, I run the house. I say, you're not

863
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: gonna believe he's in the car. Get it together, Ralph,

864
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: Greg Sandy Vicious in the car and in he walked,

865
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 2: and their mouths went bam to the floor.

866
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: And he's so beautiful and humble, you know, and we

867
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: just can't believe he's there. So then we want to,

868
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, feed him. We used to.

869
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 2: We either brought the cast role. You know, I know

870
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: you're vegetarian. We make them some food. So then yeah, okay.

871
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: Then the next morning we have our little cabins. These

872
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: are the things I want to make sure I tell you,

873
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: cause you're a deep cat. You want to hear the truth.

874
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 2: The next morning, Vicious says, I want to meditate with you.

875
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: I said, okay, come into my cabin. I'm like in

876
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: my cabin, I set up a little shrine because now

877
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: I'm a new disciple. I got a picture, Guru, I

878
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 2: got it. I got flowers, I got some candles, you know,

879
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 2: like a three tiered thing I made out of cement blocks,

880
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: a wooden floor, my bed. And he comes in and

881
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: he sits on the floor, on the wooden floor, and

882
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 2: I sit next to him, and he goes into this

883
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: long meditation. And as a meditation is going on, I'm

884
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 2: so weird. I hear this like a sound of like

885
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: a a falcet dripping, like yeah, I think, damn faucet on,

886
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 2: just gonna disturb him, you know. Now I'm pretty gombaut

887
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: with the damn fawcet. Then after a long time goes by,

888
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: he kind of bows down the floor, but he goes

889
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: down to the floor.

890
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 1: I do the same thing.

891
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: I go down to the floor, and when I come up,

892
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: you know, you know, I look at him to bow

893
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 2: to him about, you know, to acknowledge that we're in

894
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 2: the same room, and then a history of what's happened.

895
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 2: His face is completely full with tears, and on the

896
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 2: wooden floor are his tear drops.

897
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: A pool. That was the sound I was hearing. That

898
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: frightened me. It made me think maybe I'm not ready

899
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: for this. You know.

900
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: It's one thing to say you're ready for something, but

901
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 2: when you see a man who you love so much

902
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 2: in the tears next to you, like that, maybe I'm

903
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: not really ready for this. So I had to, you know,

904
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: ask myself, you know. But then he was like, let's

905
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 2: go play. So we went across the street to the

906
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 2: barn and hooked it up and went to go play.

907
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: And what I want to tell you is this man,

908
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 2: this is the last part of the story. He comes

909
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: upstairs in the barn, and this is a mighty, a

910
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 2: mighty gathering of Sandy on guitar, who's great, Billy McCoy, piano,

911
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: Rob Armstrong who you now know, but he was like

912
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 2: sixteen seventeen years old, and myself on drums and shamaclauchlan.

913
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: And he wants everyone to solo first. And we're playing

914
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: the fast funk like like we know he likes, and

915
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: we're just and we're rocking it. But then it's his

916
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: time to solo. John Macglaukin's turned to solo. My vision.

917
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: He sits in a high chair. He's kind of off

918
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: to my right. He turns to face me and as

919
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: Hugh begins to solo.

920
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: You hear the sound.

921
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: So clear, so precise, so him, it is just daunting,

922
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 2: the precision. But his face, Bobby was a stone. There

923
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: was no expression all on his face. You know, I'm

924
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: used to cats. You look watch handricks, you watch the cats.

925
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: It's all this agony, this pain on the face or boxing.

926
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 2: There was nothing, but the sound was enormous. I said,

927
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: you ain't gonna fool me. I'm gonna close my eyes.

928
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna watch you. I closed my eyes then

929
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: I could get out there with him, and that's when

930
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: we just took a flight. Then my eyes closed, but

931
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: if my eyes were open, it was the freakest thing

932
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: in the world. I dare any musician to play with

933
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: him like that. It's so freaky. So after we played,

934
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: then he said, you know, I really love the situation.

935
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: He was like, wow, I might want to get a

936
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 2: barn so beautiful. He was all lovey and dovey about everything.

937
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: And then that's how Then later on if it became

938
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: that yes about joining the band, Okay, let's stop here

939
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: for a second.

940
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: Go ahead. He had records, I think on Douglas Records

941
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: before he signed with Columbia had my Vshna Orchestra had

942
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: Inner Mountain Flame. The second album was actually more financially successful,

943
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: Birds of Fire. I think it was. Yes, I bought

944
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: the first album. I saw the band. I don't think,

945
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: including myself, I'm not sure the audience could understand the music.

946
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: You're right, we were all in shock. We had never

947
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: heard any say anything like it. Nobody had.

948
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: There had never been a concoction of that sort where

949
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 2: the funk was so strong, the rock was silence, and

950
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: the Indian influence was so powerful. Damn, It's like fifty

951
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: to sixty percent Indian music coming through on the funk,

952
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: on the blues, on the American thing. So we had

953
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 2: never heard that kind of blender a gumbo.

954
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: It was rare. No one. No one was doing that,

955
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: no one. So you're right.

956
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: We were all stunned. Even in the audience that night

957
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: when I saw him and Harper, we're all stunned and tangling.

958
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: We were all stunned. So you're right. We had never

959
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: heard anything like it. We still had ain't nothing never

960
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: been like that, and that since since now he had

961
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: his commercial peak at that point in time, to what

962
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: degree have you played with him or have a you

963
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: point on his music since the seventies.

964
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: Well, I saw him recently with Shocked, he celebrating their

965
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: fiftieth year anniversary here in town at the Lewis and

966
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: Davis Hall.

967
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: That was beautiful.

968
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: Zak here who sank killing on the toablers in his

969
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 2: band and the singer just beautiful, so beautiful, and he's

970
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: so free and he's happy. That's what he wants was

971
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: more acoustics so it's not so loud and he can

972
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 2: just do his thing and they're all just getting on.

973
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: Man.

974
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: So I have so much love and respect for him,

975
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 2: very very very very proud of him, and I'm also

976
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: very happy he took me on his wing.

977
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: A lot of other people you mentioned you played with

978
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: Yako Pastorius of course, did great things with Joni Mitchell.

979
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: A million other people died before his time. Yes, how

980
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: good was Giaco pingusorious? He is the Ali on the base.

981
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: You know we all love Ali, Muhammad Ali. I'm the greatest.

982
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: I am the greatest. That's how Jocko was. I am

983
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: the greatest. No one can touch me. Shoot, I got funk.

984
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: You want pretty? I got pretty? You want this? You

985
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: want that? What you want? I can do it. That's

986
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: how he was for real, Capricorn, tough, sensitive too.

987
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: So then dig I'm on a session with weather Report,

988
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 2: Joe zou On weather Report, Wayne Shorter, weather Report, Alexa

989
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 2: cunea percussion with Alfonso Johnson weather Report.

990
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: They called me in.

991
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 2: I did the album with Alfonso and they loved me,

992
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: so he said come in the Weatherport. So I came

993
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: over to play with him, and I cut a song

994
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 2: called black Market and the ending went into this long

995
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 2: jam like Kalamazoo Michigan jam, like the funk jam, Like

996
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: here's Wayne Shord of playing like Judy Walker, all that

997
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: stuff going on and funk for real, And I'm like, damn,

998
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: these guys are like more street wise than I realized.

999
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I know Mercy Mercy Me and all the

1000
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 2: Joe's I don't know, compositions you know, and the side

1001
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: of waiting all that you know, and out there music.

1002
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: But they could also be grounded. So I was like damn.

1003
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 2: So then Joe says, why don't you join the band

1004
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: and bring a bass player, because I know a fase

1005
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 2: is going to go on and do something else. Now,

1006
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: I said, well, Joe, I don't know if I can

1007
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: join the band because I may want to go join

1008
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 2: Tommy Bon's band. He asked me about playing with him,

1009
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I want to go more of the

1010
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 2: rock and roll away now and get some panties on

1011
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 2: the stage and all that kind of that kind of world.

1012
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: But I have a bass player I think could be

1013
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 2: good for you. I said, you know Jocopas Stories, that

1014
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 2: crazy guy in Florida. He said, I think I've heard

1015
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: about him. I said, let's fly him out here.

1016
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: So we did. We flew out of Jocopas Stories.

1017
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: For the next day, in comes Jacko, and Joe's written

1018
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 2: a song called Cannonball, which he thinks he wants to

1019
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 2: either going to call Cannonball Ford, Julian.

1020
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: Adelete, Canniball, or empty chair.

1021
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: He's not sure what he's gonna call yet, but he

1022
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: starts teaching us the song if he first runs it

1023
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: through with me, so I can record on casette on

1024
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 2: a tape. That's how I always learned tongue, I said,

1025
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: play through three once on a cassette, so I can

1026
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: just walk around and study it, you know, and just

1027
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: get it in my soul, not like looking at the

1028
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 2: peace of paper. I could never just read that stuff.

1029
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: Got to study it in your heart. So then now

1030
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 2: it's time for Jocko to learn the piece. It's his audition.

1031
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: And he starts playing this stuff that he would.

1032
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 2: Get into later with johny Mitchell, all the harmonic stuff,

1033
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: harmonic bl bloom bloom bloom, and Joe stopped right in

1034
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: the middle and said, don't play that ship on my song.

1035
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: And like a knife in Jacko's heart, a good knife,

1036
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: a knife that meant, just play what you need to

1037
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 2: play now because you can. And it made Jocko Jocko.

1038
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: He put those little things where it was supposed to go,

1039
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: with the polls just all over the place. Joe put

1040
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 2: his ass in the fire and melted him down. And

1041
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 2: that's when I really knew the power Joe Zalo. You

1042
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 2: don't mess around with Joe's zalon. He's a fighter. He'll

1043
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 2: you're out.

1044
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: And that's me. It the Jocko bro.

1045
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: And then I went on to work a time bowling

1046
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 2: and jack to stay with that band and then made

1047
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: Heavy Weather. You know, I remark you made Team Town Birdland,

1048
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 2: that serious stuff. Man made it stuff a star. Okay,

1049
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: you played with a lot of guitarists. You mentioned Pat Methen,

1050
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: You played with Jeff Beck, Alan Holdsworth. Yes, you know

1051
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: these are people considered those three people argue whether the

1052
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: best of all time?

1053
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: What do you think.

1054
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: I don't look at things as the best of all time,

1055
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 2: necessarily because I don't know the best of all time.

1056
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: All I know is that everyone's got a different like capacity,

1057
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: like like fruits, like an orange, banana, an apple, a peach.

1058
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 1: They're all great fruits. That's how I look at life.

1059
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: You need, we need, we need them all Allen Holdsworth

1060
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 2: fluid fluid. But on the session I did for him

1061
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 2: on this album, he was unhappy. He was doing a

1062
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 2: thing for CTI Records, Cree Taylor Studio, Rudvan Gelder, and

1063
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: he was running through the songs and they were recording

1064
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: the run through and they were they want to they

1065
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: want to keep that. But he's like, wait a minute,

1066
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 2: that was just a run through. No, that was good enough,

1067
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: they would say to him. So he's kind of happy.

1068
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: He's kind of happy with that record we made him.

1069
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: But I loved him.

1070
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: He was great.

1071
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 2: Then you mentioned who else you mentioned? You said, Jeff

1072
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: Beck Yep, Jeff Beck. I came to know really will

1073
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: because of the second tour we did the MA Fish Orchestra.

1074
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 2: After Vision of the Animal Beyond in seventy five, Jeff

1075
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: joined for a damn tour. He had his band Bernard

1076
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: Perdi on drums, h Max Mills on a keyboard, the

1077
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: mean bass player who put on wired.

1078
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: What was his damn name? I'm bounce based not on

1079
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: the name, and he remembers the vocalist Bobby Tench. But

1080
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 1: but that was earlier.

1081
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: That was Bobby ten Yeah, yeah, but nevertheless that that

1082
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 2: you're right, that was a hot band. Butin this time

1083
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 2: with Jeff, it was just him doing blow by blow

1084
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 2: music right, and he was he hush, Now, you gotta

1085
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 2: understand he wasn't just a jazz ars on a little

1086
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 2: He crossed over to everybody.

1087
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: It was packed theaters to see Jeff Beck.

1088
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: So I had a chance to really study him and

1089
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 2: know what is it The people loving about what he's doing,

1090
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 2: and they love the funk on the bottom with these

1091
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: sweet melodies and then the way he kind of mixing

1092
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 2: all together, but it'd be sweetness for the girls and

1093
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: also kind of funky. So I learned his sound. We

1094
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,479
Speaker 2: became really close. That was that was a really also

1095
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: we jammed jam together every night. Movish New and Jeff,

1096
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 2: me and Bernard both bands would play together. That was incredible.

1097
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 2: So I love Jeff Beck and I learned playing with

1098
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: him as more like high school vibe of me, Like

1099
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: he's brilliant, but he'd played things I could latch onto,

1100
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 2: like with Vishnu. With Professor Oriole, you had to re listen, listen, listen,

1101
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 2: listen what he's gonna do. Where Jeff I could kind

1102
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 2: of anticipate it. That's the difference, you see what I'm saying.

1103
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: I kind of anticipate it.

1104
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: Very brilliant. Who was the cat you mentioned? The three?

1105
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: You said? You said, well, I don't work at PAT

1106
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: that much. I don't work at PAT. And he was

1107
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: in college.

1108
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 2: I said, have you were like bashed out in rock?

1109
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 2: I know you played great jazz, but can you rock?

1110
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: Can you play loud? Can you come over my house?

1111
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 2: I bubble bash at you?

1112
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: See what you do? He said, okay, So I did.

1113
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: I just bashed in him hardcore and he was.

1114
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: Just like phenomenal. But it wasn't as hard. It wasn't

1115
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: what he wanted to do. He wanted to play on

1116
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: a quiet you know, he was happy playing quiet and

1117
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: and like you know, patmtheene to be, so I didn't

1118
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 2: take him that serious to go.

1119
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: Further with him.

1120
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: How about Alan Holdsworth, Yeah, I mentioned Alan at the beginning.

1121
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: I was saying, Alan Holdsworth, we did the album for

1122
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: ct I called Velvet Darkness, right, and that was the

1123
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 2: album he wasn't happy making because they kept there, they

1124
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 2: were keeping.

1125
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: The takes, I know.

1126
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: But after that, oh well, you know from me, okay,

1127
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: Alan Holdworth in heaven looking down at me right now,

1128
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 2: you are. We love you because you're like a violent

1129
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 2: on guitar. You're the violinist of the guitar. How he

1130
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 2: does what he does, no one even understands it. This

1131
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 2: is his own technique. I mean, might have a dear

1132
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: friend Crowder Richard, you another genius and guitar. He's tried

1133
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 2: to emulate it. No one can really eminent what he does.

1134
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: Alan's under his his own self. He's an orange. He's

1135
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: the orange. So I have great respect for him, but honestly,

1136
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 2: to play with him wasn't as much fun. Always say

1137
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: it was vish because Visu the definition is there, or

1138
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 2: Jeff Beck, the definition is there. With Alan so fluid

1139
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: that you have a hard time catching it what it's

1140
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 2: going to be you know what I mean? Like my

1141
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: whole thing is kind of mirror catch your frase, throw

1142
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 2: back at you so you can keep going with Alan's

1143
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 2: hard because.

1144
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 1: He'll played these long phrases. See it's hard to mirror.

1145
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 2: The long phrase. But he's genius. So I learned a

1146
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: different gear with him, just to learn the list. Let

1147
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 2: him go, Just let him go and see.

1148
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: What it is. Okay, how about drummers, How do you

1149
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: consider yourself to be stacked up? From everybody from Billy

1150
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: Cobbam to Neil Pert to everybody.

1151
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 2: Billy Cobbam to me is something that is just rarefied air.

1152
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 2: He is the astronaut that showed me the highest height.

1153
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: I had never seen anyone go as high as him.

1154
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: To this day, I love Mitch Mitchell when I saw

1155
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 2: him do with Jimmy Hendricks. I'm a real fan of

1156
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 2: so many drummers, you know, and I wasn't a big

1157
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 2: fan of a kid, necessarily of Keith Moon.

1158
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: Here I am learning.

1159
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 2: I can see for miles and miles a miles, but

1160
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: I realized that was Keith Moon. Then later on in

1161
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: my life I realized how strong he was. Then I

1162
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 2: had more.

1163
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: Respect for him. How strong he was. But I loved

1164
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: all drummers, and we don't compete. That's one thing Grew

1165
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: taught me.

1166
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 2: He said, when you join my Vision Orchestra, don't compete

1167
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: with Billy Cobb because you will lose. They just compete

1168
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 2: with yourself. And that freedom me so and talking you

1169
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: asking about other drummers. I have just just pure love

1170
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 2: for all drummers, I really do, and I try to

1171
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 2: learn from all of them. Learned from Bernard Perry how

1172
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: to shuffle. Learned from my favorite of all. A lot

1173
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 2: of people won't even know him, named Sandy McGee with

1174
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 2: a band called Cold Blood, siss Fust with Lydia pens

1175
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 2: on vocal now that cat.

1176
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, how do

1177
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: you even know that band? That band was from San Francisco,

1178
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: never really you know, broke through? How do you how

1179
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: do you even find cold Blood?

1180
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 2: I'm in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and my best friend played trumpet

1181
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,959
Speaker 2: with the band we had called Avatar named Bobby Knapp.

1182
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 2: Bob actually later joined the mob structure, but Bobby w

1183
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: be my god, turned me on this stuff. Bobby said,

1184
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 2: you gotta hear this thing. He played me cold blood,

1185
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 2: sissyphus think of shop talk Boa, digging, do, digging tan,

1186
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: don't don't dig it, don't do and.

1187
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: The drug so clean, so pure, So like, who's that?

1188
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: That's Sandy McGee And then he could.

1189
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: Sing too, there's been never a funk your cat beside

1190
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: a cobbin, and the dad looked a little.

1191
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: We love.

1192
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 2: But at that time in my life it was Sandy

1193
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 2: McGee had so much shops and knew how to grab

1194
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 2: the symbol.

1195
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: He became my guru. So I have love for all

1196
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: these people.

1197
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: And quite frankly, the Cold Sweat I can't leave on

1198
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: class Toblefield when I'm a kid, Cole Sweat turned everybody out.

1199
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 2: And if you couldn't play Cold Sweat, you couldn't play,

1200
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: you know. You look about zigg booh and talk about

1201
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: the Sizzy strip. That was important too. Everything's important in

1202
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 2: the in the rhythm world. In the rhythm world, if

1203
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 2: you can't or don't know these things, there's something missing

1204
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: in your vocabulary.

1205
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so how do you end up getting the solo deal? Oh? God?

1206
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: But hard. After my vision I was lost. I cried,

1207
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: you know, and then Lenny White helped me. Cause on

1208
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: Lenny White's album Venetian Summer whatever it's called, Venetian Something,

1209
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: Venetian Knights, whatever it's called. He had a cat on

1210
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 2: their playing guitar who was mean, named Raymond Gomez, and

1211
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,439
Speaker 2: I said, wait a minute, this guy caned meal to play.

1212
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 2: And I met Raymond Gomez and it made my heart

1213
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: feel happy, and I had met someone of you know,

1214
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: the same spirit. Loved Handrick's new mobbish new music. Some

1215
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 2: knew the fusion aire world but also understood the rock

1216
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: blues worlds. And I felt like, may I could work

1217
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 2: with this guy. I can develop my sound on me

1218
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 2: doing what I want with this guy. And I did

1219
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 2: the Garden Love Light album. I wrote Sons Dancing the

1220
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 2: White Knight and a few other pieces and it became

1221
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 2: my sound for that album. And also something I did

1222
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: learn from Talmy Tommy bowlan band Delightful, which I'd worked for,

1223
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 2: Tommy Bolan. All these kind of came together to helped

1224
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: me get a deal with Atlantic. Eventually Epic Records pay

1225
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 2: for my demo, but then they didn't want it. But

1226
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 2: then Atlantic get said Raymond, Raymond Silva and Jim Delahant

1227
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 2: and my man over there, I'm an urt again they

1228
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 2: had had successful Billy cobbam and they said, why don't

1229
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: we tick you onto? And they did, and that's how

1230
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: Mad Garden Lovel. And then they give me my choice

1231
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 2: of producers. They said you can choose either Raise Martin

1232
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 2: or Tommy Dowd. I said, well, damn, I guess I'll

1233
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 2: take Tommy Dowd then, because I want to go more rock.

1234
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 2: And I bring my engineering in from London named Dennis

1235
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: McKay worked on the last Mavis Strokes job, Inner Worlds,

1236
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 2: because he had phenomenal drum sounds. So that's how I

1237
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 2: made Garden Love Light. And then Tommy Dawe was suggested

1238
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: on Garden Love Light that sounds we got to bring

1239
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 2: in Sissy Houston sings background, so who s.

1240
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah this good MISSISSI.

1241
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 2: Here's sus Houston comes in with her whole troop and

1242
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 2: a little eleven year old girl in the corner that's

1243
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: the daughter Whitney watching. And these women sound like incredible.

1244
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 2: So Tommy dwd really helped me a lot at that

1245
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 2: time in my life seventy six. And he also big

1246
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: on compression. Tell me about compression. Ray Charles will say,

1247
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 2: don't use your eyes, use your ears, so.

1248
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: I hope him.

1249
01:04:57,840 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 2: I'm not just gap babbling here. I'm just telling you

1250
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 2: what happened at that time.

1251
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: Well, how is your experience in Atlantic and how did

1252
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: you feel about that? I love the fact that I

1253
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: could have a deal.

1254
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 2: You understand, it's hard, brother, to make have half things

1255
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 2: happen in this music world, really hard and that.

1256
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: But I had to make a deal. At the time.

1257
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: I just say, listen, they said, you will give you

1258
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 2: a deal. We want to have your publishing. Okay, see

1259
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 2: those kinds of things we have to just do just

1260
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 2: to make it. What you gonna do shine shoes, What

1261
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 2: you wanna do my floors? You want to clean ash trays? No,

1262
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 2: So I'll give you half the publishing and Wired, I'll

1263
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 2: give you half pushing whatever it is, just to give

1264
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 2: me a shot to start making my own sound. So Garden, lovelight,

1265
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 2: I cry and smile Awakening And then that's when the

1266
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 2: when the brick hit the fan. They said, listen, if

1267
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 2: you don't have a hit on this next album, Awaking,

1268
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 2: your third album, we're gonna drop you. I just got married,

1269
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 2: and they said, you may want to come to New

1270
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 2: York because it's the sound has changed it's now disco

1271
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 2: dance music, so I didn't want to get dropped. And

1272
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: the jazz rock fusion kind of kind of it kind

1273
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 2: of ruin its course. And I came to New York

1274
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 2: and I want to fit the studio fifty four checked

1275
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 2: it out. Walk the streets here, Rick James, you and

1276
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: I here hear the sound of the day, and go

1277
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 2: on my little Hilton Apartment hotel and bust out on

1278
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 2: my clabinet four Jams, I don't know Buddy's dance with

1279
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 2: you and the side of one of Awakening. And I

1280
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 2: was very blessed to have Bobby Clearman and say yes

1281
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 2: to working with me at the power station. And they

1282
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 2: also said, yeah, you gotta work with this other guy

1283
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: who's big in the disco woman, Patrick Adams. He does

1284
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 2: string arranging for the disco, so you gotta have him

1285
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 2: in there for the name that and what he's don't

1286
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: bring to it. I said, okay, So I going to

1287
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 2: put powers and I'm cutting with my cats hiring book

1288
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 2: on guitar, you know, Cliff Carter keyboards, and we're cut

1289
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 2: my stuff and Bobby makes me sound really good. Patrick

1290
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 2: comes around every now and again, and I got the

1291
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 2: Brecker Brothers to come play horns with David Sambourne, Michael, Michael,

1292
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 2: Randy and David come play on I Don't want to

1293
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: body else dance with you, And that record saved my life.

1294
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 2: I had a little hit and now they're give me

1295
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 2: a party at Atlantic. I'm gonna urt again and all

1296
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 2: that at the Indian Food restaurant. So I'm just so

1297
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 2: happy man to feel like I could save my career.

1298
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 2: I didn't want to go down. And then I went

1299
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 2: in that same trajectory next album, Dance a Life. I

1300
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: Should Have Loved You, not I'm all right dance music.

1301
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: You know. I love Atlantic Records. I love Atlanta Records.

1302
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: So how did you end up getting into the other

1303
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: side of the business, on the other side of the glass.

1304
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 2: After I had I Should Have Loved You? Now I'm

1305
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 2: watching Don't Forget. I watched George Martin produce Apocalypse of

1306
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: Marvish Orchestra. I watched Kenny Scott Ken Scott do Vision

1307
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 2: aw moving on. I watched you know, Tommy Down, I

1308
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 2: watched these hot shot cats. You know, just by being

1309
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,959
Speaker 2: around you, you learn. And then I told Henry Allen,

1310
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 2: who was the president of Cotillion records. You know, we

1311
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 2: don't talk about Henry, but Henry was a big shot.

1312
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 2: He was gonna signed, say Selata's all such a sledge,

1313
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: you know, helped now Roger Vashik all that stuff.

1314
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, Henry, why you let me

1315
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: produce this girl for four tracks? And I'm four songs now,

1316
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: I'll make an album if you like it for stats

1317
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: Aleatta's all I know you want something happened for her,

1318
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:22,679
Speaker 1: She's eleven years old. And he said, okay, okay.

1319
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 2: I said, if you know you won't lose that much

1320
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 2: of it to do four songs, and if you like it,

1321
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 2: just you know you would finish it up. So I

1322
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 2: got a very small budget and I went back home

1323
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 2: to Samay school and I wrote and put together with

1324
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 2: my band, you know, Corodo Crodon guitar, Frank Bartiner keyboards,

1325
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 2: TM Stevens bass, and myself. I wrote let Me be

1326
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 2: Your Angel with Bunny Home, Dynamite Jumped to the Beat

1327
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 2: and my Love and those four records. When they heard,

1328
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 2: they were like, damn, and you're under budget too, Go

1329
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 2: finish the album.

1330
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 1: So I finished the album. She had a hit.

1331
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 2: Liviy r Angel was a big hit Dynamite did did

1332
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 2: really well for her. That made the phone ring. Now

1333
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 2: Clive Davis is calling me. He said, well, how do

1334
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 2: you learn how to make that kind of record? Said, well,

1335
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm from Michigan. I love music, you know. He said,

1336
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 2: well you want to produce Dean Warick. Damn, Dean Warck

1337
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 2: is my my hero back, I'm my heroes.

1338
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: He'll go and visit with her.

1339
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 2: That was Clyde that said it to me. So I

1340
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: go to LA I bring thirteen songs. But Diane didn't

1341
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 2: like my songs at that time.

1342
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: I come back. Call my call Claude. Is it clid?

1343
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: She didn't like my songs. He ain't don't work, don't

1344
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 1: wory about I about to read Franklin or Wreatha Franklin.

1345
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, he said, just give her a call. Just

1346
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: give her a call. So I called Wreatha Franklin. So

1347
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: I say, well, what do you do to have fun?

1348
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 1: You know?

1349
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 2: She goes, well, maybe I'll go out to a night

1350
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 2: club at night. I look around the club. I see

1351
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: a guy in the corner looking good looking at me.

1352
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 2: I'm looking at him.

1353
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: She goes, it's kind of like a whozu Manhu. He

1354
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: thinks he's got me. But then the fish jumps off

1355
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: the hook. Damn, the fish jumps off the hook. Who's

1356
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:06,759
Speaker 1: When I'm writing this down, this is how she talks

1357
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: for real. So I got off the phone call.

1358
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 2: I called my buddy, Preston Glass said, Press, we gotta

1359
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 2: take her the way she talks.

1360
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 1: Make a song out of this. Here we did.

1361
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 2: I go back to Detroit and I start working with Aretha,

1362
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: and then I realize how tender she is because her

1363
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 2: dad just died. Her dad died from the colma being

1364
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 2: shot in the church, so she's very tender. But she

1365
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 2: sings her ass off two songs Who's Them? And who

1366
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 2: and Until You Say You Love Me my favorite of all.

1367
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,560
Speaker 2: And then when I come back home back to California,

1368
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 2: Preston says to me, what about that song Freeway of Love?

1369
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 2: Whyn't you give her that the thing you're working out

1370
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 2: for yourself, Preston, I would have never thought of that.

1371
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:50,560
Speaker 2: So we reshape Freeway of Love for Aretha and that

1372
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 2: becomes a major hit for her, and on the same sessions,

1373
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: I how will I Know? For Whitney Houston. It all

1374
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 2: kind of snowballed, it all kind of snowballed because I

1375
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 2: said no to Whitney Houston. It was Jared Griffith called

1376
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 2: me for Whitney said, no, I can't do that. I'm

1377
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 2: so focused on Aretha. I can't do anything else. He said, Yeah,

1378
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 2: I have a hold on man. This is sister Houston's daughter.

1379
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: Whitney.

1380
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 2: You want to be on this project, he said, And

1381
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 2: I think, He said, I think I have a song idea.

1382
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 2: He sent me the course of how will I know?

1383
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 2: But there was no verses. I said, I gotta write

1384
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 2: some verses of those things. He said, then let me

1385
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 2: ask the writers.

1386
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: If you can do that.

1387
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 2: You call the writers and the writer said, okay. So

1388
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 2: I jammed out on the same section for Aretha.

1389
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: How will I know? Bang on the piano, sing the thing,

1390
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: bang it out, call it Whitney. Can you sing high?

1391
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm the other thing with the high? Yeah, I can

1392
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: sing Hi. That's how I'll just start a snowballing.

1393
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 2: Don't forget ant the ballfield came before that too, Philips Hymon,

1394
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 2: Patty Austin. There was a whole lot of work in

1395
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 2: there building me up that I was doing different different people,

1396
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 2: different labels and things.

1397
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: Okay, Clive has got a reputation for meddling with the music.

1398
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: To what degree did he meddle with the record?

1399
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 2: You made different degrees on different different things early on,

1400
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 2: for as the book feel he may want me to

1401
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 2: do a song or something. He might choose a song

1402
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 2: or two, but then beyond that he wouldn't. He wasn't

1403
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: that crazy. He was always cool, you know, feel the time.

1404
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 2: He was always cool. How will I know I did

1405
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 2: that for Jerry Griffith never even talked to Clive about that,

1406
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,600
Speaker 2: But there was then when I brought it to the

1407
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 2: office after I cut it and mixed it, he said, well,

1408
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 2: did you ever know about another lyrics for that song?

1409
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 2: A sa A No, No, I did not, and then

1410
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 2: he just dropped it. But I saw him ask me

1411
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 2: about that now. On next album, he chose all the

1412
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 2: music for Whitney. He chose I Want to Dance, Somebody

1413
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 2: Loves Me where Brokerheart's go so emotional. He chose those songs,

1414
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 2: even shows like the Olympic theme song One moment in time.

1415
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 2: It was my job to bring him to be it

1416
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 2: sounds like hits, so I did, And all he would

1417
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 2: ever asked for was really making sure that he can

1418
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 2: hear the vocal background vocal. He would to meddle with

1419
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,560
Speaker 2: me too much. Only one song the third album he

1420
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 2: went crazy, love her for life. I wanted to cut

1421
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 2: that song four different ways for different ways. Wasn't like

1422
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 2: I need a baker, were like this one like that?

1423
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: Whatever? Because the demo the baseroom pattern was wrong to me.

1424
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: It was a four a five bar pattern, the base

1425
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 1: from going around wrong to me? Were it never really grounded.

1426
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 2: And when I couldn't make Clive happy about the thing,

1427
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: he just so much loved the demo, I said, well,

1428
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 2: what is I said, you know the baseroum pattern is

1429
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 2: a five bar pad and he says, well, maybe that's

1430
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 2: what I love about it, the floatings of it. I said,

1431
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 2: all right, So I cut up with the floatings that

1432
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 2: he liked from them, and then he was happy. But

1433
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 2: I haven't had like a lot of battles with Climb

1434
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 2: about that kind of stuff. He's normally loving what I

1435
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 2: give him, so I gotta I have to give him

1436
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 2: a lot of credit that we've had a long, along

1437
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 2: running streak of him having success. How did you feel

1438
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 2: about his song choices? I got it that the choruses

1439
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 2: we were strong. That's the main thing. He wasn't trying

1440
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 2: to dictate how funk you had to make him to

1441
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 2: make to make them hits. So I could dig his

1442
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 2: song choice. If I knew if I could take his

1443
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 2: white pop hook and blacket funk it, put James Brown

1444
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 2: on it, put the problem of funking that look on it.

1445
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 2: Whatever was hot at the time, it'd be all right,

1446
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 2: That's what.

1447
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 1: That was my combination of how to make that stuff swing,

1448
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 1: and we did. So what's your magic in the studio?

1449
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 1: What is it that you had that makes the song

1450
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: go over the top?

1451
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 2: Oh, honey, I love you. Thank you if you asking

1452
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 2: me something like that. I'm very dedicated to work quickly.

1453
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 2: I don't take a long time to do stuff, and

1454
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 2: I use my gut. I always think what's the hot

1455
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 2: what's gonna be hot on the jukebox at the black

1456
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 2: ghetto joint in Kalamazoo on the jukebox, what's gonna make

1457
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: them chicks when they get that little drink on feel good?

1458
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 2: I think about that, And I also think about on

1459
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 2: NASA's boat, what's gonna sound good for the rich people.

1460
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 2: I think about all about it, but I want to

1461
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 2: really make sure I get the people in the ghetto.

1462
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: And what does that mean.

1463
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 2: That means the rhythm. The rhythm gotta be right. When

1464
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 2: the rhythm is right, everything's right, then you're gonna make it.

1465
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 2: The little pop up sound good. Oh I want it

1466
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 2: with somebody. Uh, I want to feel o the hey

1467
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 2: with somebody.

1468
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: Huh d. It's all the rhythm. How you do it.

1469
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: If it sounds too straight, no, you gotta put that

1470
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 1: thing on it. So that's what it is. Put it.

1471
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: Put a thing on it with the rhythms.

1472
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: The musicians, the bass player, Randy Jackson's guitars, put the rhythms.

1473
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: Okay, there are a million different musicians with a million

1474
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 1: different attitudes. Do you find people are amenable to you saying, hey,

1475
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: let's do it this way that way, or do they

1476
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: come and say, no, we got to do it my way. No.

1477
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:41,560
Speaker 2: I work at cats who do it my way, and

1478
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 2: they'll take my way and make it even better. I

1479
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 2: take I take cats. We'll start with my way. If

1480
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 2: they bring something better to the pie, I'm cool. But

1481
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 2: if it's not better than no, no, no, it's.

1482
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: Gotta be this. You got to have a leader. You

1483
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: gotta be a leader, Bobby, you gotta be a leader. Well,

1484
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: sometimes that causes friction, doesn't it.

1485
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, I don't care about friction. If if I'm the producer,

1486
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 2: that's my job. On the director, that's my job to

1487
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 2: put lay down the law. Try try your idea? Is

1488
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 2: it either good as not?

1489
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is? And the ideas you have like some

1490
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: things like the rhythm you know, or part of your DNA.

1491
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 1: But did the other thing just come out of thin air?

1492
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: Like you're standing in the shower or you walk into

1493
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:25,719
Speaker 1: the bathroom in the studio and all of a sudden

1494
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 1: you have an idea? Where do the ideas come from? Oh?

1495
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 2: I got an inspiration. It's with this twenty four hours

1496
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 2: a day. You're right, Grew taught us. Just reach your

1497
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 2: hand up and grab the birds inspiration and bring them

1498
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 2: down anytime.

1499
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 1: So I know that trick.

1500
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 2: I can write hit anytime if I really focus or

1501
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 2: write something. I think it's strong if I really focus

1502
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 2: on it, pray on it, and you ask God to

1503
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: come through. God can come through, you.

1504
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 1: Know, and you say you work quickly. Yes. It's one

1505
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 1: thing to get the sounds lay them down. It's another

1506
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 1: thing to mix any cute To what degree do you

1507
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: labor over the mix? Very good.

1508
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 2: I got you, So I'll cut something quickly if I can.

1509
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 2: I work with a team of people who understand my tempa.

1510
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 2: Because what it is, Bobby, when you sweat and you're

1511
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 2: and dirfor it's kicking in, you want to grab that

1512
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 2: while it's happening, even a ritha. I'll have her get

1513
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: the ending of the record first, sing all the soul,

1514
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:19,719
Speaker 2: get all that first, before we ever get too technical

1515
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 2: in the verse.

1516
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 1: I don't.

1517
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 2: I want to go so fast we go beyond the

1518
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 2: mind because you break the mind up. The mind's gonna

1519
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,560
Speaker 2: start judging and criticizing now that and you can ruin it.

1520
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 2: So then I go quickly on that stage. But then mixing,

1521
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 2: now I can say they phraser my main cat. Will

1522
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 2: take your time, take a couple of days and get

1523
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 2: it together. I'll give them a rough mix what I love,

1524
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 2: the balance of what I love. Then you can take

1525
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 2: another couple days where refine it. That's fine, that's fine.

1526
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 2: But with the almost sason I made back of that time,

1527
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 2: we're over a week's time. I'll take about one week

1528
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: to do a song and be from starting to finish

1529
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 2: as powerful.

1530
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in the studio night and day. You're not

1531
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 1: doing drugs, you're not drinking. No, no, no, no, it's music.

1532
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 1: It's all music, okay. And now the money's starting to

1533
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 1: roll in. What do you do with the money? Hm hmm.

1534
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 2: Well, you know, money's funny, man. Money comes in, money

1535
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 2: goes out quick too. You got to careful, you know.

1536
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 2: I had a good time. I was married back then,

1537
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:36,200
Speaker 2: married married and did nice things. And now I have three,

1538
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 2: three children, and money comes in and money goes out.

1539
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 2: So it's funny, man. Hard hard to keep keep a

1540
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 2: hand on it. But I've had some wone of the

1541
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 2: times in my life. One of the times my life.

1542
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm very very happy with my life. But money, money, money,

1543
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 2: money is tricky.

1544
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 1: Man. Money's tricky. That's why I ask about it. Now,

1545
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 1: you gave up fifty percent of your action in Atlantic,

1546
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 1: the songs, in the producer royalties that you have. Do

1547
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 1: you still own those or did you sell them?

1548
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 2: I have sold some publishing of a few of my things,

1549
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 2: and I have the publishing of some other things, so

1550
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 2: it's kind of a mixed bag. I own the writers,

1551
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 2: writers share and all my points as a producer. So

1552
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 2: I'm like like like like that, and so why did

1553
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 2: you sell the publishing?

1554
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 1: Oh maybe I went through a divorce and I wanted

1555
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: to make it all, you know, good for somebody else

1556
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 1: like that, I see. But at this point in time,

1557
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: is revenue's still pretty good from these royals.

1558
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm happy to have a good life. I'm happy

1559
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 2: to have you know, my studio which I'd love to

1560
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 2: come visit. It's called tart Ban Studios. I've had eighty five.

1561
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,520
Speaker 2: I mean, the molecules in here are just just incredible.

1562
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:50,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm I'm able to make it. I'm able

1563
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,600
Speaker 2: to feel good. I'm able to keep to continue to

1564
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 2: make more music, you know, and stay happy.

1565
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: So how did you meet Q and what influence was Q?

1566
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: Quincy Jones? Early in my life?

1567
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 2: It's funny, I hadn't gotten the tarpen yet. I was

1568
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 2: still over the automat studios and San Francisco. I don't

1569
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:09,560
Speaker 2: know how we actually hooked up at one point on

1570
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 2: the phone or something, but he told me said, we

1571
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 2: need we need more helpers in the production world, more helpers, okay,

1572
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 2: And I kind of knew he was right because I

1573
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 2: was having a hard time finding other helpers in my world,

1574
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 2: so I kind of knew he was right. And then

1575
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:27,679
Speaker 2: when I started preaching stage letters, own business, just legs

1576
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 2: and stuff, I knew he was right, So I kind

1577
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: of took that more serious, just to be a producer. Yeah,

1578
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 2: and then he would teach me things like, don't strangle

1579
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 2: the baby in the crib, you know, as a songwriter,

1580
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 2: don't strangle strangle the baby in the crib. You know,

1581
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 2: love your babies, wash the blood off, cut the ambilical chords,

1582
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 2: dress them up.

1583
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, not everyone's gonna understand that. Go a little deeper.

1584
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 1: Don't strangle the babies in the crib.

1585
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you write a song, love it like your baby.

1586
01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 2: You love your baby, You have a baby, you love

1587
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 2: your He goes, oh this trash, Oh theok got cute.

1588
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 2: Oh you've washed them, you know, washed the blood off

1589
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 2: because think public a chord, put a little hat on

1590
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:09,559
Speaker 2: some little clothes. It smells so sweet. It might need

1591
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 2: some little mama's milk. Whatever, you take care of it.

1592
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 2: That's how Quincy taught me to take care of the songs.

1593
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:17,559
Speaker 2: And then he would also say, you know, the chorus,

1594
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 2: make the course stand up big and strong. Because I

1595
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 2: always knew that, but he kind of reinforced it. So

1596
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 2: I always made the course stand up, you know, big

1597
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 2: and strong. So Quins is like a guru mentor teacher

1598
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 2: for me, and I admire him how he's able to,

1599
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, do so many things so well, you know,

1600
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 2: you talk to him, his mind's like an ex cyclopedia.

1601
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 2: He didn't talking about damn everything thing, you know, hanging

1602
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 2: out with Ray Charles, hanging out with dog With, hanging

1603
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 2: out with Count Basy, hanging out on you know in Europe,

1604
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 2: this goes on on on with that cat. There's nobody

1605
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 2: he doesn't know. That's what I'm saying. But damn, okay,

1606
01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 2: So how do you.

1607
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 1: End up getting into sound tracks?

1608
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 2: They call you when you get hot, everybody calls you.

1609
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 2: And when I realized about soundtracks, they're looking for a hit.

1610
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 2: They don't really just want an album track.

1611
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: For example, a movie like even License to Kill, a

1612
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:18,599
Speaker 1: James Bond theme, you know, License of Kill.

1613
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 2: How do you make a hit out of that? But damn,

1614
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:22,640
Speaker 2: I challenged myself. I said, nah, to make a hit

1615
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 2: out of License to Kill? So I think I go

1616
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 2: to the piano and make a sweet powerful the bottom

1617
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:30,160
Speaker 2: of Sweet Melloy and make the theme like I have

1618
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 2: lies to kill? Anybody will try to hurt you or

1619
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 2: take or take or take you to take you from me.

1620
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,880
Speaker 2: So that's how I found my success as a soundtrack cat,

1621
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 2: just taking different movies and making sure I'm making a

1622
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 2: hit for them so they can have, you know, a

1623
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 2: bannitter wave for that film.

1624
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: So every producer has their moment and then it starts

1625
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 1: to fall off a little bit. What was that experience? Like?

1626
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 1: Have I fallen off? Bobby? Have I fallen off? I'm

1627
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 1: not saying you have a phone off, but I'm not

1628
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:05,720
Speaker 1: saying you're done. I'm saying that it's sometimes you know,

1629
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,639
Speaker 1: the phone doesn't doesn't stop ringing, then it rings less.

1630
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 2: I got you, well, how my hand and phoning and

1631
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 2: rest ringing less. I'm good. I'm good. I have so

1632
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 2: many people I love working with still and still enjoy

1633
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 2: making the music. I regret that I don't have a

1634
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 2: better situation to get the music heard the way I like.

1635
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 2: That's what I most regret. People who are unsigned. We'd

1636
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 2: love to sign them, but how do we get him

1637
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 2: hurt the way? Want to get him a hurt. That's

1638
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:36,160
Speaker 2: the thing I missed with Clive and becn day old

1639
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 2: day of Rster Records.

1640
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: You could produce Kenny G, who be nobody but he

1641
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: Now you're hearing Kenny G every hour, take a catle,

1642
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 1: even Jamaine Stewart, We're gonna take our clothes up.

1643
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 2: Now you're hearing him every hour, even when he Houston

1644
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 2: this year, every hour everything you were hearing, hear and hearing.

1645
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 1: I missed that component. That's what I missed the most.

1646
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,680
Speaker 1: He had all that success behind the board. How did

1647
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: that aff affect your solo career and do you have

1648
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 1: any regrets? No, I have no regrets at all.

1649
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 2: I love my life everything I've done, but with a

1650
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 2: good feeling of what's good for me, what's what's right

1651
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 2: for me.

1652
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:13,960
Speaker 1: So I have no regrets about anything. No. No. I mean,

1653
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: do you have a regrets that you didn't spend more

1654
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 1: time on your solo career? No, no, no, Because I

1655
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: wanted to do many things which I have done. I

1656
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: wanted to do many things. I can say to you.

1657
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 2: You know, I've played with the greatest jazz rock cats

1658
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:31,120
Speaker 2: in the world. You know, I played with Ruther Franklin.

1659
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 2: I worked with the greatest singers of all time.

1660
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 1: So I like that.

1661
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:40,960
Speaker 2: I like being versatile and spreading the love around more

1662
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:42,720
Speaker 2: so than just doing one thing over and over and

1663
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. Yeah, so how do

1664
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 2: you end up in Journey? Well, I don't play live

1665
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 2: with Journey. I don't do that anymore.

1666
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I just did, but you did for a while. Oh yeah,

1667
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: I did you know? I did? I tough strong. I

1668
01:24:58,479 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 1: did a double album.

1669
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 2: First, I did the solo album for Neil Neil and

1670
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 2: showing the guitar player, called the Universe, which is a

1671
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 2: hell of an album. Then during COVID, it overspills and

1672
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 2: it well, let's make a Journey record. It was became

1673
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 2: a double album during COVID.

1674
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Here I'm.

1675
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 2: Writing songs with Neil or you know, in letting him

1676
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 2: do his thing because he's missed a journey. And then

1677
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:24,680
Speaker 2: you bring in Jonathan Kan to do his thing. Send

1678
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 2: tapes to Randy Jackson for bass, get on the zoom

1679
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 2: skype for RNL in the Philippines, get his vocal you

1680
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 2: know that way put it all together. Maybe give some

1681
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 2: stuff to Bobby Clemon and mix it up. Bobby's doing

1682
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 2: a good job doing that. So he made a double album.

1683
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 2: And then it came down to play some live shows

1684
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: and had to relearn that material. Not the double album

1685
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 2: as much, but all the it's that's where it's hard. Oh,

1686
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:49,599
Speaker 2: it's so much because they don't want just like the records,

1687
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 2: they want you to play with Steve Smith played live

1688
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,640
Speaker 2: on every song, every bar, so it's a lot of memorization.

1689
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,200
Speaker 1: Oh it was so hard, but I loved it. But

1690
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: it was just hard. Care who you are. You don't

1691
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 1: want to step into that gig and just learn nothing.

1692
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: You got to know it.

1693
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 2: So then we brought in Dean Castranova, who knows that

1694
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:09,600
Speaker 2: from twenty years playing that book, and that helped me

1695
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 2: a lot because now we can play a lot of

1696
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 2: the different pieces they wanted to get into and we

1697
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 2: could rock it together and that was great. I think

1698
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 2: about nine shows live, some big ones like Lollapaloo's and all.

1699
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 2: That was really a lot of fun.

1700
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you know, the music changed certainly in black music.

1701
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: It became more of a hip hop world. What's your

1702
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:32,679
Speaker 1: viewpoint on hip hop?

1703
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a student of all the music. I

1704
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 2: try to learn from it, whether I like it all

1705
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 2: no or you know, like or love. I just try

1706
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 2: to learn from it so I can be competitive if

1707
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 2: I want to be competitive. That's where I come from

1708
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 2: I missed the lack of melody and music. I missed

1709
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 2: the lack of bridges. I missed the lack of what

1710
01:26:58,160 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 2: I learned from Motown when I learned from all the

1711
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 2: great songs, an you won't can hear no Burt Backright

1712
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 2: tape songs no more unless I maybe it's Golden Hour,

1713
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 2: which Golden Hour is genius. But you don't hear a

1714
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 2: lot of music, not necessarily anymore.

1715
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 1: So I missed that.

1716
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 2: I can't lie about it, you know, but as being

1717
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 2: a producer, if you hire me as a producer, then

1718
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:16,920
Speaker 2: you're hiring me to be competitive with what's going on.

1719
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 2: So I got to know what's going on. So I

1720
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 2: learned from it and I used parts I like and

1721
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 2: then mix it with But I think it's some good music.

1722
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:26,920
Speaker 2: That's what I've always kind of done, really mix good

1723
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 2: music with the thing of the day.

1724
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: Okay, this is audio only and people can't see. But

1725
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 1: you're wearing jewelry around your neck. What is that jewelry represent? Oh?

1726
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 2: I have a cross today I'm across my wife gave me.

1727
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 2: I want to make sure I'm telling you the truth,

1728
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 2: nothing but the truth. I got a little hook from

1729
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 2: that grit, great film, Well the Maana the hook Man.

1730
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 2: I got some beautiful beads from my son Michael. He's

1731
01:27:55,760 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 2: five years old, Keep me youthful happy. I got some

1732
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 2: beets from Hawaii the Aloha love Spirit. I want to

1733
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 2: break tround bringing everything to you for your interview because

1734
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 2: I heard all about you.

1735
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 1: Two things.

1736
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:13,680
Speaker 2: When I did a concert with Jeff Beck at the Grammys.

1737
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:16,720
Speaker 2: You said something that was very kind about my work

1738
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 2: at the Grammys of Jeff Beck. I don't know, I

1739
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:20,439
Speaker 2: don't even know what it was now you said, but

1740
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 2: it was just something that was kind, and I thought,

1741
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:23,800
Speaker 2: this is very nice, and I have wanted to find

1742
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 2: out more about you. Then I realized, you know, you're

1743
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:29,000
Speaker 2: you're not spoken cat. So then I say, well, you

1744
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 2: want to do, like, you know, an hour and a

1745
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 2: half podcast. I'm like, okay, you know, I want to

1746
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:34,519
Speaker 2: bring the best to you because I know you you

1747
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 2: want you want to know what's going on.

1748
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: So here while you're doing you've have brought the best.

1749
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 1: So just tell me a little bit. You know the

1750
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: other thing people can't see. They can't see your studio.

1751
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 1: Tell me about your studio. Oh, it's the best.

1752
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 2: Tarpan Studios it was first Tres Virgo, a pre existing

1753
01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 2: place where they've done Greg Grateful Dad, Stuart Copan, your

1754
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 2: big guest. I heard that show you're recorded in here

1755
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 2: for Rumblefish right out there. It's just a massively beautifully

1756
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:07,440
Speaker 2: built room with great wood at each room is isolated

1757
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:11,720
Speaker 2: with iron steel, so it's really like the gooda one

1758
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 2: of isolation going on.

1759
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 1: What about equipment, are you equipment geek?

1760
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:17,759
Speaker 2: I'm not a geek. No, those are those my engineers.

1761
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 2: I've got the SSL console from the day we used

1762
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 2: to have tried and console. Now it's SSL. I have

1763
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:24,840
Speaker 2: to have my tape machines over here if I want tape.

1764
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:28,000
Speaker 2: But we're mainly pro tools. Can't lie about it, mainly

1765
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 2: pro tools, you know. And got great microphones quite frankly.

1766
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:36,760
Speaker 2: My favorite microphone is a cheap microphone, the SM seven.

1767
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:38,920
Speaker 2: That's why I used for a wreathing for Whitney because

1768
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 2: it cauld handle screaming and tender at the same time.

1769
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 2: So I got some good, good mins ic got my

1770
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:48,639
Speaker 2: drums here. I got some keyboards and things. But I'm

1771
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 2: not like equipment geek as much as I am song.

1772
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 2: I love songs, and.

1773
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 1: Tell me about the racism experienced in the business. Say

1774
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: it again, what is it? What racism? Yeah, you said racism, right, racism?

1775
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:11,560
Speaker 1: A racis what you want to know? Man, what do

1776
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: you want to know? What you want to know? Well,

1777
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 1: you're an interesting cat because, first and foremost, whether it

1778
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:21,880
Speaker 1: be racism or not, a lot of rock music was white, okay,

1779
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 1: and you played in jazz and rock and you know

1780
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 1: it's listen, we live in a racist country and I'm

1781
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 1: sure it's something you've experienced. Yeah. I have.

1782
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 2: At the same time, I learned how to how to

1783
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 2: how to get through it. And the way to get

1784
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 2: through is just keep being bad ass and don't worry

1785
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:42,600
Speaker 2: about it.

1786
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:43,559
Speaker 1: You know you don't.

1787
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:45,280
Speaker 2: You can't crack you in on a rolling Stone magazine.

1788
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 2: You're gonna ever be on a rolling Stone magazine, you

1789
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:49,640
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. You learn to live with the

1790
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 2: reality of what it is. At the same time, you

1791
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 2: keep kicking ass.

1792
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 1: That's what I do.

1793
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 2: No matter who I am with, I kick ass. If

1794
01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm with Jeff Bett, kicking that ass, he loves it.

1795
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 2: Whoever it is, whatever, kick the ass in the studio,

1796
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:05,880
Speaker 2: kicked the ass. Don't worry about the thing, just do it.

1797
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 2: Put it down, Put it down. You talked about.

1798
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: When you first went to see Mahavi shu to Orchestra,

1799
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:13,720
Speaker 1: you were in a bad place and you thought the

1800
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:16,240
Speaker 1: world was in a bad place. What do you think

1801
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,840
Speaker 1: about the space that the world's in today.

1802
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 2: I think we're gone. You go two steps forward, one

1803
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 2: step back. I think we're still going one step back.

1804
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 2: We're still kind of requestioning. What we did when we

1805
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,760
Speaker 2: went two steps forward was really good. Now we're step

1806
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:31,960
Speaker 2: back to kind of reassess everything and then doing so,

1807
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:34,160
Speaker 2: we're getting caught up in the quicksands.

1808
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:36,519
Speaker 1: The quicksands are catching us.

1809
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 2: So I'm praying we can kind of get the quicksand

1810
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 2: off our boots and be able to step a little

1811
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:45,639
Speaker 2: bit forward now on the light. Keep what we were

1812
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,920
Speaker 2: searching for, what Martin Luther King tried to put down

1813
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 2: the sixties, feeling good about each other, feeling good about

1814
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 2: trying to bring love to the situation.

1815
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: Even the hippies smoking the little grass Hendricks, the flower power.

1816
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 1: Keep that love going, the flower power, keep the love

1817
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 1: for the family, for yourself, for each other. It's important

1818
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 1: America thrives on the best of all of us coming together.

1819
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:10,559
Speaker 1: What will the world will be with that little Richard

1820
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:11,519
Speaker 1: and the music came.

1821
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 2: Out out of New Orleans and Louis Armstrong and Ray

1822
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 2: Charles and all that music came down.

1823
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 1: So we have to love America. That's what I'm saying.

1824
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 2: Let's not go back, Let's go forward. Let's not let

1825
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:25,839
Speaker 2: anyone like divide us. All that dividing thing is bullshits.

1826
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 2: We got to see it together, you know. And when

1827
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 2: I watch sports, I see a lot of black cats

1828
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:33,679
Speaker 2: playing the football and white's cats are embracing that. That's wonderful.

1829
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 2: Let's keep it going. Let's keep it all going. We

1830
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 2: need each other and music brings us together, which is

1831
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 2: what I love the most.

1832
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 1: Speaking.

1833
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 2: Our racist might can go to inn in the country

1834
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 2: and play the music and they love it. So I

1835
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 2: found a secret how to get above it. Just play

1836
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:48,559
Speaker 2: the music and bring us all together.

1837
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 1: And you've accomplished so much. Anything that you're reaching for

1838
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:58,000
Speaker 1: in the time you have left, hopefully thirty years or so.

1839
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 1: But anything you want to implic sure, doom. I want

1840
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:04,439
Speaker 1: to accomplish that. I'll make you happy today. You're a

1841
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 1: smile makes me happy because I know if I make

1842
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:08,320
Speaker 1: you smile, because I know you've heard a lot of music.

1843
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:10,320
Speaker 2: Then you've been and you're a Taurus. You're born at

1844
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:13,680
Speaker 2: the April twenty first, like that April twenty second. A second, Yeah, yeah,

1845
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 2: you're born David, David before you, but a year later.

1846
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 1: Well okay, see if I can make you happy. Shoot, man,

1847
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing I'm doing something. I'm doing something. Well, you

1848
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 1: really have made me happy. This has been a wonderful surprise.

1849
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 1: You're a great rock and tour fascinating stories, Nord. I

1850
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for spending time with

1851
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:35,879
Speaker 1: my audience.

1852
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:38,640
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Bob, and do come and visit us

1853
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 2: to tarp Insidios. You know I'd love to and anything

1854
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 2: I ever do with you. I'm down with you now.

1855
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,880
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob Left

1856
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 1: Sets