WEBVTT - A Dead Shot [11] 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.760 Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:08.600 Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.800 this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:15.480 individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.960 of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:26.880 discretion is advised. He laid it on the counter to Lenny, 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.760 how you like that scount book that baby? It's a 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.680 rifle actor wrestler, right, it's noisy, just a special one 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:39.000 that baby special did right? It looked like a regular 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.560 hunt gun which site with thing along boul what I said, 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.479 looking like one of the old Brown and gun. That's 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.720 what I always said, because I guess Ramanton Brown is 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.440 about that. I would know, but uh I didn't touch it, 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.920 and I don't know who I didn't because it was 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.600 on the counter there and land right in front of me. 0:00:57.680 --> 0:00:59.520 Did you look like it's a new gun? Was it new? 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.400 It was branded? Right, said? Looked like it hadn't never 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.800 been It wasn't hadn't been abet at all been fired. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.280 Looked like I did have a scope on it, I think, 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.440 I said, had a scope on top. It did have 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:17.120 a scope. It was brown it was nice. What I 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.880 guess you's macall and woodwork. It was a good looking 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.399 made a lot of noise. Yeah, it didn't make a 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.360 lot of noise. It didn't look like the type of 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.360 going to do that, all right. It's a strange looking, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.160 all right, But it made a tremendous noise every time 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:36.200 he would shoot it down in that gun, right down. Oh, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.680 this is his first time. I saw him that day 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.560 and that day only that he shot that right and 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.039 he started all day. He spent time with it all 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:53.080 that day. I called the Union Hall. I said, a 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.040 matter of life and death. I said, I think these 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:00.880 peoples are planning to kill Dr King. The authorities parade. Oh, 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.760 we found a gun the James l. Ray bought in 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:08.200 Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't the gun 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.519 that killed Dr King. James l. Vay was a paw 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:18.040 or The official story from My Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:23.240 The plan was to get King to the city because 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.000 they wanted it handled in Memphis. Were dead in named 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:31.800 Cat Hammond. I'm Bill Claibourg and this is the MLK tapes. 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.760 Lenny Curtis was a black custodian at the Memphis Police 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.560 firing range in April of night he witnessed several disturbing 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:49.880 things that the King was shot, and in the days 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.320 leading up to it, afraid for his family. He kept 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.079 those events to himself for over thirty years, but Curtis 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.880 did tell a friend of his who contacted Bill Pepper. 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.480 Pepper convinced the friend to at least let him speak 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.960 to Curtis. Lenny told me the story, and then I 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.560 convinced Lenny to go under oath in a deposition and 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.320 be filmed and tell the story, but in front of 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.600 Mark M. King the third, and he did all of that. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.960 The deal was that I would not reveal what he 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:28.480 said whilst she was alive. The Curtis deposition was recorded 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.480 in April of two thousand and three, but the tape 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.560 itself remained in the custody of Bill Pepper, as per 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.120 his agreement with Lenny Curtis. Also in attendance was Martin 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.400 King the third, an attorney Louis Garrison, who would ask 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:46.760 many of the questions as well. Hear now back in 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.080 miss Curtis, you were employed by the Memphis Police Department, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:56.480 and at that time you were working at the firing 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:02.120 range cost out. Okay, but four April fourth, nineteen sixtight, 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.280 you knew I have an officer there whose name was 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.960 Earl Clark and my corrector, Captain Cloud. Yes. And also 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.440 there was an aufer named Frank Strausser is that he 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:18.240 was a patrol Now, MS courtis just tell us before 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.400 April four some things you had heard from both of 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:26.159 those sources about Dr King's present here in Memphis. Here, 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.160 Uh Mrs Strailer said that somebody I was gonna blow 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:34.880 his I don't say it, blow his mother fucking brains out. Okay. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.080 We had set two TVs in which we call a 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.919 lounge in a lounge area, and that they had reserve 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.599 police officers which was rookie police. You know they didn't 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.840 you know, you could tell. So they was in uniform 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.240 waiting on a standby and they would listen to looking 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.359 at the TV. And uh Mrs Straiser came in and 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.240 stood up, stopping the lounge while TV was on, and 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.960 he made the statement that oh he'd get a fucking 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.640 brain blow it out. And he went on down into 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.239 the area where the gun room room down on the basement. 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.040 And that's what the first gave me. I started thinking 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.039 because we were in the area where he couldn't see us, 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.040 and we were in the kitchen, in the cook area 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:25.200 of the lounge. He couldn't see us. So I told James, 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.760 and not just saying anything. So we just do it, 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.480 and we talked about it, and I told Jane, I said, so, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.479 I don't feel good about that because he was shooting 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:40.160 that gun all that day. When Curtis refers to the 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.760 gun that Frank Strausser was shooting at the range as 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.719 that gun, he was talking about a particular rifle, the 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.080 special Baby with a polished wood stock, that had been 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.640 shown to him just a few days before by a 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.840 close friend of Strousser's, a fireman named Roy Young. And 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.640 when Curtis was asked to describe what he saw or 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.320 heard on the day King was killed, it went right 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.400 back to Frank Strausser and that gun. He was shooting 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.360 the gun all day. But when he came up, it 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.320 was during the time that we was getting ready to 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.719 leave and we were in the same location. We were 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:15.680 doing lunch. I mean about what time the day was, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.400 would you say? That was about three o'clock? Okay, So 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.159 we were cleaning up and here he'd come up out 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.880 of the thing with the rifle, that same rifle, like 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.280 the same rifle to me, what do you do? He 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.480 went to Mr young car. He had a voice wagon. 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.360 Mrs Streis did but he left and Mr Young's car 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.719 that date ruffles, however, and then he turned to what 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.080 I said, fire because he had a white T shirt on, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.080 blue pants and put a pair of dog sunglass on. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.080 When he left, the top back all right. And then 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.200 you saw him leave, said he got in the car 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.520 and pool law. When he left, I wait until he 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:57.680 got out of the drive and I went across the 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.760 street to the Board of Education. I had only a 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.960 two phone called fair. I called the Union Hall, talked 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.039 to them later. It was a reception there. The young 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:09.680 lady I spoke to. I told her, I said this 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.000 is something very important and she said what is it 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:14.920 to I said, it's a matter of life and death, 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.840 and she said, what fool's life? And what you know? 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.920 I said, I think these people are planning to kill 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.200 Dr King? And I said I wanted to talk to 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.520 Reverend Smith. She said what he probably with Dr King? 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.000 I said, no way, ma'am, you could get in touch 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.480 with him. She says, not not at this time. Sir, 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.360 so I called Dr Vasco Smith. I let his phone 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.560 rang for I don't know how long. No one never answered. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.120 I don't guess nobody was there. So I had no 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.560 more money. I went back to the police problem across 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.680 the street and I sat over there for a while. 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.440 Then I left him, going home. And when I got home, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.440 my wife and I was in the kitchen and it 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.840 came over radio, and it just knocked me down. And 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.760 I have lived with it so long as the fact 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:01.960 that I thought, I said, well, now, am I not 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.880 honly somebody that could have helped? And I did all 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.960 I could, and I could I think about moving? Or 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.720 am I safe here? And and you know I've been 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.560 to a thing with this thing with me and my 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.560 seron and they they scared for me, you know, it's 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.280 scared for me. But the Lord told me and not 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.800 the word I wanted to tell this here. I've been 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:29.160 wanting to tell it all my lions. But Curtis's worries 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.040 didn't stop when King was killed. They increased because Frank 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.960 Strousser seemed to think that Lenny Curtis had seemed too 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.240 much and had put the pieces together that he knew 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.120 what Strausser had done. He was aware that Lenny saw 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.200 everything that was going on. I knew everything that was 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.560 going on, so he definitely intimidated Lenny. For quite a 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.840 period of time. Curtis tried to stay out of the 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.280 way whenever Frank Strouser came around, but he could feel 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.839 Strousser looking at him. Some months after the King killing, 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.800 after he hadn't said a word to Curtis since the murder, 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.520 Strausser approached Curtis and asked him to come with him 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:12.400 on an errand Curtis felt an immediate fear. He said, 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.480 I think he contacts you one day and sq back 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.720 riding down to pick up the pay roll. That was 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.600 surprising to me. Coach you before said nothing to me. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.000 They had never even spoken to you before other than 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.199 just remark you heard. And my mind told me to go, okay, 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.800 what do you say? Remember said LENNI said, you got 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.760 your boy caught up? And I just said you. He said, uh, 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:36.800 you wanna write down with me to pick up a check? 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.400 And I went and I knew what he was gonna 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.120 ask me, but I didn't know where he was gonna 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.600 ask me. We we went and got in the car, Yeah, 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:48.840 it's going on. I was looking at it. He put 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:50.800 his hand on his gun. He didn't put his hand 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.800 on it. He didn't touch it because I was watching it. Yeah, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:55.480 but just two I get in the car too. It 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.920 was in the car, thank you, said he was. Mary 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.560 asked me when I'm mayor? Then who We got down 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.960 by the Popular in the North Parkway. He turned and 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.560 went through the wood area. Why the zoo, you know? 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.160 And I'm one. Of course, we're own Poplar. All we 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.000 gotta do. Go straight down to the deal High. When 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.840 we got around them, cured while you get deep the grass, 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.599 He's said, let it. What are you thinking about that 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.520 guy Ray killing king things like that? I saw all 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.319 he did. I said, it's no doubt about it. You know. 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.240 I had to say that. I said, no, no doubt 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.200 about it. I said, I know he did it. Everybody 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.000 know he did it. Talking about Mr Ray. And then 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.160 they asked me, said you're still doing privor detective word 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.600 now I was insecured, doing secure the guards. I said year. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.200 He said, you're still working with those lbis and periodic. 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.040 I had some couple of FBI that would bring me, 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.360 won't it posts I said, yeah, I said, periodic I 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.400 we worked together, and he told me, he said, let him, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.360 you'd be careful him. But Frank Strousser always seemed to 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.240 feel that Lenny Curtis was a danger to him and 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.679 to him, and again Strosser would stalk Curtis, either to 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:12.800 frighten him or possibly worse. Strange thing was happening to 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.760 me at one time, and with the own box says, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.920 somebody turned my gas off and turned it back home. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.280 But it was in one of time, and I got 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.319 cold and woke up and smelled to gad. And so 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.679 that next week I noticed a car sitting across the street. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.880 It was a Lincoln, or I was a Lincoln, and 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.559 I was looking at I said that I was a 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.679 car that don't supposed to be there before I come out. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.320 I always do that in the morning, because, like I said, 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.400 I was scared. At one time, I was really scared. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.400 So I noticed the cobs there of the car, and 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.520 I looked at the real careful and kept looking at. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.920 I saw a head moved, and I said, So by 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.319 that time I went back into in the house. I 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.839 got my pistol and I loaded it, put it in 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.839 my pocket, and like I normally do. I would go 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.200 out and stop my car later on this time something 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.760 that Lulow I told me. He told me he said, 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.320 when you get ready to go, go, don't warm your 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.679 motor up or nothing. So I got him a car 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.120 and turn in this and took off without even turn 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.360 my lights on. And just as I went to pull out, 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.960 he pulled out and it was him Strousser. And at 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.720 that particular time they were they were doing Christmas time. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.760 They were saying something about they had new evidence. Every 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.000 time they come up with new eleness, he would pop 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.319 up some kind of way as something. In recounting the 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.120 day King was killed, Curtis gave an interesting description of 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.640 the way Strauser looked as he left the firing range. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.480 Curtis said, quote, he turned into what I said was 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.160 a fireman, referring to Strouser in the informal dress of 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.920 a fireman, complete with white T shirt, ruffled hair, and sunglasses. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.520 He also left in a fireman's car. I asked Bill 0:12:55.559 --> 0:13:00.920 Pepper about this. He was driving Roy Young's car. Ry 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:05.400 Young's had privileges at the fire station number two, so 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.760 he was able to park the car there, and he 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:14.920 did change his his physical appearance yes he did, and 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.800 since the fire station erupted like a beehive as soon 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.079 as King was shot, being dressed like a fireman wouldn't 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.199 be a bad way to blend in and then disappear, 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:29.760 if that's what happened. Once Bill Pepper heard Lenny Curtis's testimony, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.920 he naturally began to look at Frank Strausser, though he 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.720 had to be cautious because sudden interest would put Curtis 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:40.280 in danger, something Pepper had promised not to do. Pepper 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.840 found out that Strausser was new to the Memphis Police 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.840 force at the time of the King killing, having recently 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.560 returned from Vietnam, where he had been wounded and lost 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.040 her brother. Pepper also found a cop who had briefly 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.640 served as Strousser's partner in a squad car. He told 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.800 Pepper that Strausser was out of control, acting as though 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.280 he was untouchable, with numerous abuses of power, like when 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.719 he went into a black bar screaming nword this and 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:09.960 nword that, and emptied his pistol into the jukebox. Pepper 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.080 also ran across a reference to Strausser in It Came 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.360 from Memphis, a book by Robert Gordon about the music 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.440 scene in the sixties. Gordon described Strousser as a brawler 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.840 recently back from Nam, quoting here, he got wired on 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.760 his own adrenaline in the Vietnam jungle, and the chill 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.080 rush of danger in his lower backbone had become as 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.840 necessary to him as air going in and out of 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.520 his lungs. Upon returning to Memphis, he'd become a cop, 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.640 the paramilitary uniform and the weapon sort of a methodon. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.160 The book would go on to describe how Strausser would 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.320 muscle in on the pimps and dope dealers working Beal Street, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.240 and how after hours he would team up with a 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.920 friend and go to bars looking for people to beat up. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.760 For most people, such a character reference might be enough 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.480 to just stay clear of the man, But when Lenny 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:05.080 Curtis died in Bill Pepper decided to find Strausser and 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:09.520 talk to him. I didn't necessarily expect that I would 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.120 get anything out of it, but I thought I would 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.640 be remiss if I didn't try to have some conversation 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.200 with this guy. I saw him where he was living. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.400 I just went out there one day. He was doing 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.640 his laundry, and then he came out to see me, 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.920 and I introduced myself to him, and I said, I'd 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.640 like to talk to you at some some point. You 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.760 were an officer at the time of the killing, and 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.680 I'd like to I'd like to know what you what 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.440 you believe happened, and so forth. Then I invited him 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.880 to have lunch with me, and I offered him five 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.720 hundred dollars if he would sit down a restaurant have 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.640 lunch with me, which he did. So Bill Pepper decided 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.800 to have lunch with the man he believed killed, Martin 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.760 Luther king Strouser, in his seventies, was driving a cab 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.280 to support himself, and five dollars seemed like good pay 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.480 for an hour work, so he said yes, and a 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.600 date was set for the dining room of the Peabody 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:09.680 Hotel in Memphis. Pepper then called his court reporter, Brian Dominsky. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.560 Bill asked that that I have him wired for sound, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.680 and we did a rudimentary attempt at that recorder in 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.600 his pocket. Besides the recorder, it was also thought a 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.400 good idea if Pepper had additional people in the room, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.280 so Dominski and an associate were already at a nearby 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.360 table when Strousser and Pepper sat down at the Peabody, 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.800 unbeknownst to Strousser, we were sitting one table away. But 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.000 Bill welcomed him and they sat down and they had 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.400 about a forty five minute chat about what life was 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.040 like in in Memphis. But the small device that Bill 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.040 had in his pocket wasn't up to the task. Given 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.240 the normal noise of a dining room, what it recorded 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:54.360 was barely decipherable. Dominski, however, was able to produce a 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.320 transcript parts of which voice actors will perform for us 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:16.520 right after the break, m how are you, Frank? How 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.760 are you doing? You all right? Yeah? Well, I did 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.880 something in my back, so I'm not really all right. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.600 Bill Pepper rises awkwardly from his chair to greet Frank Strousser, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.960 who notices his pain. Pepper says that he did something 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.320 to his back, referring to something that was done to 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.160 his back decades earlier. Pepper then Hans Strousser an envelope 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.320 with five Strousser nods, puts it in his pocket and 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.000 takes his seat. Once settled, it is Strausser who asked 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.560 the first question, So what's on your agenda? You write 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.280 in a book. Yeah, I've written too on this case. 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.040 This is gonna be the final one, so I'm trying 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.200 to cover all the bases. I'm gonna go through a 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.040 lot of stuff with you and take some notes if 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:01.560 I may. And I want to first ask your recollection 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.520 of what things were like around the time this went on, 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.080 this killing. Sure, let's start with what you recall in 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.760 the police department and what the atmosphere was like around 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.639 the time of the assassination. Okay, the department at that 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.760 time was an old school police department. There was before 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.680 we started hiring for quotas and everything. So most of 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:27.160 the officers were a dying breed. They were dinosaurs. Basically 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.200 an all white force, very few blacks, so it was 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.440 a very tight knit group of men. Now Halliman came in, 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.640 when was that? What was your impression of him? Harmon 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.040 came in somewhere around January. I didn't have that much 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.960 to do with him. Those FBI guys pretty much stay 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.000 with their own. He was in a street coup. Yeah, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.080 he was with Hoover for a number of years. What 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.840 was the attitude toward Martin King, I mean amongst the police, 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.639 I don't think they had any liking for him. The 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.800 sanitation workers went on strike and then we monitored them, 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.679 rode with them when they marched. The police officers were 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.000 just doing their job. So what was the atmosphere in 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.840 the city were outside the police force in terms of 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.639 was it explosive? Was it ready to know? Not? Really? 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.359 What did that? What changed the whole thing? Was you 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:22.080 mean the assassination or the assassination sanitation workers going out. 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.440 Prior to that, there weren't demonstrations, and then after the assassination, 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.480 the blacks and everybody come downtown, thieves, pickpockets. They ruined it, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:36.040 the rioters, whoever you want. Before then, everyone came to 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:41.120 town to shop, and after nobody came. So I think 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.240 prior to that the relationship was much better. Since then, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:50.720 Memphis has evolved into a racially charged city. Frank Strausser 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.560 starts his history of Memphis by referring to the police 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.680 at the time of the king killing as dinosaurs, as 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.840 if he has somehow moved on, But then he candidly 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.960 puts himself back among them as he reveals his belief 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.640 that it was the blacks who ruined the city. Things 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.280 were much better before the sanitation workers got all stirred 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.840 up about a union. Of course, the city might have 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:12.920 saved itself a lot of trouble had they just paid 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.879 their garbageman a living wage. But Pepper doesn't argue because 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.840 he is pleased with the conversation. He had been half 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.880 expecting Strousser to take the money and then become hostile 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.119 or uncooperative. Pepper wants to keep the words coming, so 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.280 he steers the conversation to something they had in common. 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.320 From what I know about you, you've had an interesting 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.640 career because you were in the military. Correct in Vietnam. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:40.439 That was in Vietnam and I got I got hit 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:45.400 pretty good. What a year that's when I was there. 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.800 Really were you military? No? No, I was a journalist, 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.560 went there in the spring of sixty six and took 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.159 myself out to the Central Islands. I was in a 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.520 C one thirty and we were landing in Plaku and 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.520 they hit us. Going in plane made a very bad 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.000 rough landing and it started my back problems then. But 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.960 those things happen. Those things happen. But you must have 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.640 seen rough action. How was that? A couple of good ones. 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.040 I ended up in the hospital in Osaka, needed skin grass. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.520 My brother wasn't so lucky. He died there. M hm. 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.120 I'm sorry to hear that, younger brother, two years younger. 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.600 I understand that you were given some serious award, the 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.520 Army Commendation Medal for valor. But they gave it to 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.240 you at the police roll call. Isn't that unusual? It 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:37.720 was good pr The conversation so far had gone better 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.480 than Bill Pepper could have expected. Frank Strauser was calm 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:43.639 and willing to talk about what things were like in 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.639 Memphis back in the day, but that's all he had 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.600 signed on to do. He hadn't agreed to talk about 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.639 the murder of Dr. King, and Pepper didn't expect to 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.520 get Strousser to fess up to anything or rat out anybody. 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.840 But he also didn't want to squander at the opportunity 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.280 to poke a ound. Do you remember where you were 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.760 when King was shot? Uh? Yeah, I was at home. 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.920 I wasn't home. I had had been at home. I 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.000 forget what time he got killed. He got killed about 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.000 six o'clock in the afternoon, because I was I think 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:15.840 I was working seven to seven. I know I was 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.920 working seven to seven, so I was on my way 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.800 to work because I heard it on the radio that 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:23.800 he had been assassinated, and I was on my way 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.960 to the precinct down at headquarters to go to work. 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.520 Do you remember hearing it on the radio driving to work? Yes, 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.520 driving to work. Then I'll hell broke loose. I guess 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:37.000 what happened. The riots broke out downtown. There was so 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.040 much going on that I went on twelve hour shifts 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:43.920 probably for the next six weeks. Pepper, of course, is 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.840 quite certain that Frank Strausser was not at home or 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.080 in his car when King was killed, but Strouser is 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:54.199 disarmingly relaxed about it all. So Pepper decides to lay 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.960 a few more cards on the table. Do you know 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.080 what I've done? Who I am? I have no idea. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.480 I was James Earl Ray's lawyer from until he died. 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:12.840 Oh okay. I only took him on after I spent 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.920