1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: discretion is advised. He laid it on the counter to Lenny, 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: how you like that scount book that baby? It's a 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: rifle actor wrestler, right, it's noisy, just a special one 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: that baby special did right? It looked like a regular 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: hunt gun which site with thing along boul what I said, 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: looking like one of the old Brown and gun. That's 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: what I always said, because I guess Ramanton Brown is 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: about that. I would know, but uh I didn't touch it, 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know who I didn't because it was 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: on the counter there and land right in front of me. 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: Did you look like it's a new gun? Was it new? 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: It was branded? Right, said? Looked like it hadn't never 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: been It wasn't hadn't been abet at all been fired. 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: Looked like I did have a scope on it, I think, 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: I said, had a scope on top. It did have 21 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: a scope. It was brown it was nice. What I 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: guess you's macall and woodwork. It was a good looking 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: made a lot of noise. Yeah, it didn't make a 24 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: lot of noise. It didn't look like the type of 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: going to do that, all right. It's a strange looking, 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: all right, But it made a tremendous noise every time 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: he would shoot it down in that gun, right down. Oh, 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: this is his first time. I saw him that day 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: and that day only that he shot that right and 30 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: he started all day. He spent time with it all 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: that day. I called the Union Hall. I said, a 32 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: matter of life and death. I said, I think these 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: peoples are planning to kill Dr King. The authorities parade. Oh, 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: we found a gun the James l. Ray bought in 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't the gun 36 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: that killed Dr King. James l. Vay was a paw 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: or The official story from My Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. 38 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: The plan was to get King to the city because 39 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: they wanted it handled in Memphis. Were dead in named 40 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: Cat Hammond. I'm Bill Claibourg and this is the MLK tapes. 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: Lenny Curtis was a black custodian at the Memphis Police 42 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: firing range in April of night he witnessed several disturbing 43 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: things that the King was shot, and in the days 44 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: leading up to it, afraid for his family. He kept 45 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: those events to himself for over thirty years, but Curtis 46 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: did tell a friend of his who contacted Bill Pepper. 47 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: Pepper convinced the friend to at least let him speak 48 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: to Curtis. Lenny told me the story, and then I 49 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: convinced Lenny to go under oath in a deposition and 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: be filmed and tell the story, but in front of 51 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: Mark M. King the third, and he did all of that. 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: The deal was that I would not reveal what he 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: said whilst she was alive. The Curtis deposition was recorded 54 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: in April of two thousand and three, but the tape 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: itself remained in the custody of Bill Pepper, as per 56 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: his agreement with Lenny Curtis. Also in attendance was Martin 57 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: King the third, an attorney Louis Garrison, who would ask 58 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: many of the questions as well. Hear now back in 59 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: miss Curtis, you were employed by the Memphis Police Department, 60 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: and at that time you were working at the firing 61 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: range cost out. Okay, but four April fourth, nineteen sixtight, 62 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: you knew I have an officer there whose name was 63 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: Earl Clark and my corrector, Captain Cloud. Yes. And also 64 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: there was an aufer named Frank Strausser is that he 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: was a patrol Now, MS courtis just tell us before 66 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: April four some things you had heard from both of 67 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: those sources about Dr King's present here in Memphis. Here, 68 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: Uh Mrs Strailer said that somebody I was gonna blow 69 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: his I don't say it, blow his mother fucking brains out. Okay. 70 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: We had set two TVs in which we call a 71 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: lounge in a lounge area, and that they had reserve 72 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: police officers which was rookie police. You know they didn't 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, you could tell. So they was in uniform 74 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: waiting on a standby and they would listen to looking 75 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: at the TV. And uh Mrs Straiser came in and 76 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: stood up, stopping the lounge while TV was on, and 77 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: he made the statement that oh he'd get a fucking 78 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: brain blow it out. And he went on down into 79 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: the area where the gun room room down on the basement. 80 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: And that's what the first gave me. I started thinking 81 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: because we were in the area where he couldn't see us, 82 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: and we were in the kitchen, in the cook area 83 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: of the lounge. He couldn't see us. So I told James, 84 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: and not just saying anything. So we just do it, 85 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: and we talked about it, and I told Jane, I said, so, 86 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: I don't feel good about that because he was shooting 87 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: that gun all that day. When Curtis refers to the 88 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: gun that Frank Strausser was shooting at the range as 89 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: that gun, he was talking about a particular rifle, the 90 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: special Baby with a polished wood stock, that had been 91 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: shown to him just a few days before by a 92 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: close friend of Strousser's, a fireman named Roy Young. And 93 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: when Curtis was asked to describe what he saw or 94 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: heard on the day King was killed, it went right 95 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: back to Frank Strausser and that gun. He was shooting 96 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: the gun all day. But when he came up, it 97 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: was during the time that we was getting ready to 98 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: leave and we were in the same location. We were 99 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: doing lunch. I mean about what time the day was, 100 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: would you say? That was about three o'clock? Okay, So 101 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: we were cleaning up and here he'd come up out 102 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: of the thing with the rifle, that same rifle, like 103 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: the same rifle to me, what do you do? He 104 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: went to Mr young car. He had a voice wagon. 105 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: Mrs Streis did but he left and Mr Young's car 106 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: that date ruffles, however, and then he turned to what 107 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: I said, fire because he had a white T shirt on, 108 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: blue pants and put a pair of dog sunglass on. 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: When he left, the top back all right. And then 110 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: you saw him leave, said he got in the car 111 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: and pool law. When he left, I wait until he 112 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: got out of the drive and I went across the 113 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: street to the Board of Education. I had only a 114 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: two phone called fair. I called the Union Hall, talked 115 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: to them later. It was a reception there. The young 116 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: lady I spoke to. I told her, I said this 117 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: is something very important and she said what is it 118 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: to I said, it's a matter of life and death, 119 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: and she said, what fool's life? And what you know? 120 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: I said, I think these people are planning to kill 121 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: Dr King? And I said I wanted to talk to 122 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: Reverend Smith. She said what he probably with Dr King? 123 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: I said, no way, ma'am, you could get in touch 124 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: with him. She says, not not at this time. Sir, 125 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: so I called Dr Vasco Smith. I let his phone 126 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: rang for I don't know how long. No one never answered. 127 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: I don't guess nobody was there. So I had no 128 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: more money. I went back to the police problem across 129 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: the street and I sat over there for a while. 130 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: Then I left him, going home. And when I got home, 131 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: my wife and I was in the kitchen and it 132 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: came over radio, and it just knocked me down. And 133 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: I have lived with it so long as the fact 134 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: that I thought, I said, well, now, am I not 135 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: honly somebody that could have helped? And I did all 136 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: I could, and I could I think about moving? Or 137 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: am I safe here? And and you know I've been 138 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: to a thing with this thing with me and my 139 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: seron and they they scared for me, you know, it's 140 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: scared for me. But the Lord told me and not 141 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: the word I wanted to tell this here. I've been 142 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: wanting to tell it all my lions. But Curtis's worries 143 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: didn't stop when King was killed. They increased because Frank 144 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: Strousser seemed to think that Lenny Curtis had seemed too 145 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: much and had put the pieces together that he knew 146 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: what Strausser had done. He was aware that Lenny saw 147 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: everything that was going on. I knew everything that was 148 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: going on, so he definitely intimidated Lenny. For quite a 149 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: period of time. Curtis tried to stay out of the 150 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: way whenever Frank Strouser came around, but he could feel 151 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: Strousser looking at him. Some months after the King killing, 152 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: after he hadn't said a word to Curtis since the murder, 153 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: Strausser approached Curtis and asked him to come with him 154 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: on an errand Curtis felt an immediate fear. He said, 155 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: I think he contacts you one day and sq back 156 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: riding down to pick up the pay roll. That was 157 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: surprising to me. Coach you before said nothing to me. 158 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: They had never even spoken to you before other than 159 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: just remark you heard. And my mind told me to go, okay, 160 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: what do you say? Remember said LENNI said, you got 161 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: your boy caught up? And I just said you. He said, uh, 162 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: you wanna write down with me to pick up a check? 163 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: And I went and I knew what he was gonna 164 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: ask me, but I didn't know where he was gonna 165 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: ask me. We we went and got in the car, Yeah, 166 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: it's going on. I was looking at it. He put 167 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: his hand on his gun. He didn't put his hand 168 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: on it. He didn't touch it because I was watching it. Yeah, 169 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: but just two I get in the car too. It 170 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: was in the car, thank you, said he was. Mary 171 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: asked me when I'm mayor? Then who We got down 172 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: by the Popular in the North Parkway. He turned and 173 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: went through the wood area. Why the zoo, you know? 174 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: And I'm one. Of course, we're own Poplar. All we 175 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: gotta do. Go straight down to the deal High. When 176 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: we got around them, cured while you get deep the grass, 177 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: He's said, let it. What are you thinking about that 178 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: guy Ray killing king things like that? I saw all 179 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: he did. I said, it's no doubt about it. You know. 180 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: I had to say that. I said, no, no doubt 181 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: about it. I said, I know he did it. Everybody 182 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: know he did it. Talking about Mr Ray. And then 183 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: they asked me, said you're still doing privor detective word 184 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: now I was insecured, doing secure the guards. I said year. 185 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: He said, you're still working with those lbis and periodic. 186 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: I had some couple of FBI that would bring me, 187 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: won't it posts I said, yeah, I said, periodic I 188 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: we worked together, and he told me, he said, let him, 189 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: you'd be careful him. But Frank Strousser always seemed to 190 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: feel that Lenny Curtis was a danger to him and 191 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: to him, and again Strosser would stalk Curtis, either to 192 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: frighten him or possibly worse. Strange thing was happening to 193 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: me at one time, and with the own box says, 194 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: somebody turned my gas off and turned it back home. 195 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: But it was in one of time, and I got 196 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: cold and woke up and smelled to gad. And so 197 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: that next week I noticed a car sitting across the street. 198 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: It was a Lincoln, or I was a Lincoln, and 199 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: I was looking at I said that I was a 200 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: car that don't supposed to be there before I come out. 201 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: I always do that in the morning, because, like I said, 202 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: I was scared. At one time, I was really scared. 203 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: So I noticed the cobs there of the car, and 204 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: I looked at the real careful and kept looking at. 205 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: I saw a head moved, and I said, So by 206 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: that time I went back into in the house. I 207 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: got my pistol and I loaded it, put it in 208 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: my pocket, and like I normally do. I would go 209 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: out and stop my car later on this time something 210 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: that Lulow I told me. He told me he said, 211 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: when you get ready to go, go, don't warm your 212 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: motor up or nothing. So I got him a car 213 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: and turn in this and took off without even turn 214 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: my lights on. And just as I went to pull out, 215 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: he pulled out and it was him Strousser. And at 216 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: that particular time they were they were doing Christmas time. 217 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: They were saying something about they had new evidence. Every 218 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: time they come up with new eleness, he would pop 219 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: up some kind of way as something. In recounting the 220 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: day King was killed, Curtis gave an interesting description of 221 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: the way Strauser looked as he left the firing range. 222 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: Curtis said, quote, he turned into what I said was 223 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: a fireman, referring to Strouser in the informal dress of 224 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: a fireman, complete with white T shirt, ruffled hair, and sunglasses. 225 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: He also left in a fireman's car. I asked Bill 226 00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: Pepper about this. He was driving Roy Young's car. Ry 227 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: Young's had privileges at the fire station number two, so 228 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: he was able to park the car there, and he 229 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: did change his his physical appearance yes he did, and 230 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: since the fire station erupted like a beehive as soon 231 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: as King was shot, being dressed like a fireman wouldn't 232 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: be a bad way to blend in and then disappear, 233 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: if that's what happened. Once Bill Pepper heard Lenny Curtis's testimony, 234 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: he naturally began to look at Frank Strausser, though he 235 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: had to be cautious because sudden interest would put Curtis 236 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: in danger, something Pepper had promised not to do. Pepper 237 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: found out that Strausser was new to the Memphis Police 238 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: force at the time of the King killing, having recently 239 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: returned from Vietnam, where he had been wounded and lost 240 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: her brother. Pepper also found a cop who had briefly 241 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: served as Strousser's partner in a squad car. He told 242 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: Pepper that Strausser was out of control, acting as though 243 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: he was untouchable, with numerous abuses of power, like when 244 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: he went into a black bar screaming nword this and 245 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: nword that, and emptied his pistol into the jukebox. Pepper 246 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: also ran across a reference to Strausser in It Came 247 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: from Memphis, a book by Robert Gordon about the music 248 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: scene in the sixties. Gordon described Strousser as a brawler 249 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: recently back from Nam, quoting here, he got wired on 250 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: his own adrenaline in the Vietnam jungle, and the chill 251 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: rush of danger in his lower backbone had become as 252 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: necessary to him as air going in and out of 253 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: his lungs. Upon returning to Memphis, he'd become a cop, 254 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: the paramilitary uniform and the weapon sort of a methodon. 255 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: The book would go on to describe how Strausser would 256 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: muscle in on the pimps and dope dealers working Beal Street, 257 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: and how after hours he would team up with a 258 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: friend and go to bars looking for people to beat up. 259 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: For most people, such a character reference might be enough 260 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: to just stay clear of the man, But when Lenny 261 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: Curtis died in Bill Pepper decided to find Strausser and 262 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: talk to him. I didn't necessarily expect that I would 263 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: get anything out of it, but I thought I would 264 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: be remiss if I didn't try to have some conversation 265 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: with this guy. I saw him where he was living. 266 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: I just went out there one day. He was doing 267 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: his laundry, and then he came out to see me, 268 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: and I introduced myself to him, and I said, I'd 269 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: like to talk to you at some some point. You 270 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: were an officer at the time of the killing, and 271 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to I'd like to know what you what 272 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: you believe happened, and so forth. Then I invited him 273 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: to have lunch with me, and I offered him five 274 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: hundred dollars if he would sit down a restaurant have 275 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: lunch with me, which he did. So Bill Pepper decided 276 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: to have lunch with the man he believed killed, Martin 277 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: Luther king Strouser, in his seventies, was driving a cab 278 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: to support himself, and five dollars seemed like good pay 279 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: for an hour work, so he said yes, and a 280 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: date was set for the dining room of the Peabody 281 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: Hotel in Memphis. Pepper then called his court reporter, Brian Dominsky. 282 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: Bill asked that that I have him wired for sound, 283 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: and we did a rudimentary attempt at that recorder in 284 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: his pocket. Besides the recorder, it was also thought a 285 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: good idea if Pepper had additional people in the room, 286 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: so Dominski and an associate were already at a nearby 287 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: table when Strousser and Pepper sat down at the Peabody, 288 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: unbeknownst to Strousser, we were sitting one table away. But 289 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: Bill welcomed him and they sat down and they had 290 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: about a forty five minute chat about what life was 291 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: like in in Memphis. But the small device that Bill 292 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: had in his pocket wasn't up to the task. Given 293 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: the normal noise of a dining room, what it recorded 294 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: was barely decipherable. Dominski, however, was able to produce a 295 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: transcript parts of which voice actors will perform for us 296 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: right after the break, m how are you, Frank? How 297 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: are you doing? You all right? Yeah? Well, I did 298 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: something in my back, so I'm not really all right. 299 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: Bill Pepper rises awkwardly from his chair to greet Frank Strousser, 300 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: who notices his pain. Pepper says that he did something 301 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: to his back, referring to something that was done to 302 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: his back decades earlier. Pepper then Hans Strousser an envelope 303 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: with five Strousser nods, puts it in his pocket and 304 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: takes his seat. Once settled, it is Strausser who asked 305 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: the first question, So what's on your agenda? You write 306 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: in a book. Yeah, I've written too on this case. 307 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: This is gonna be the final one, so I'm trying 308 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: to cover all the bases. I'm gonna go through a 309 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: lot of stuff with you and take some notes if 310 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: I may. And I want to first ask your recollection 311 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: of what things were like around the time this went on, 312 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: this killing. Sure, let's start with what you recall in 313 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: the police department and what the atmosphere was like around 314 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: the time of the assassination. Okay, the department at that 315 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: time was an old school police department. There was before 316 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: we started hiring for quotas and everything. So most of 317 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: the officers were a dying breed. They were dinosaurs. Basically 318 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: an all white force, very few blacks, so it was 319 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: a very tight knit group of men. Now Halliman came in, 320 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: when was that? What was your impression of him? Harmon 321 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: came in somewhere around January. I didn't have that much 322 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: to do with him. Those FBI guys pretty much stay 323 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: with their own. He was in a street coup. Yeah, 324 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: he was with Hoover for a number of years. What 325 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: was the attitude toward Martin King, I mean amongst the police, 326 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: I don't think they had any liking for him. The 327 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: sanitation workers went on strike and then we monitored them, 328 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: rode with them when they marched. The police officers were 329 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: just doing their job. So what was the atmosphere in 330 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: the city were outside the police force in terms of 331 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: was it explosive? Was it ready to know? Not? Really? 332 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: What did that? What changed the whole thing? Was you 333 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: mean the assassination or the assassination sanitation workers going out. 334 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: Prior to that, there weren't demonstrations, and then after the assassination, 335 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: the blacks and everybody come downtown, thieves, pickpockets. They ruined it, 336 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: the rioters, whoever you want. Before then, everyone came to 337 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: town to shop, and after nobody came. So I think 338 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: prior to that the relationship was much better. Since then, 339 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: Memphis has evolved into a racially charged city. Frank Strausser 340 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: starts his history of Memphis by referring to the police 341 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: at the time of the king killing as dinosaurs, as 342 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: if he has somehow moved on, But then he candidly 343 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: puts himself back among them as he reveals his belief 344 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: that it was the blacks who ruined the city. Things 345 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: were much better before the sanitation workers got all stirred 346 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: up about a union. Of course, the city might have 347 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: saved itself a lot of trouble had they just paid 348 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: their garbageman a living wage. But Pepper doesn't argue because 349 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: he is pleased with the conversation. He had been half 350 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: expecting Strousser to take the money and then become hostile 351 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: or uncooperative. Pepper wants to keep the words coming, so 352 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: he steers the conversation to something they had in common. 353 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: From what I know about you, you've had an interesting 354 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: career because you were in the military. Correct in Vietnam. 355 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: That was in Vietnam and I got I got hit 356 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: pretty good. What a year that's when I was there. 357 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: Really were you military? No? No, I was a journalist, 358 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: went there in the spring of sixty six and took 359 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: myself out to the Central Islands. I was in a 360 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: C one thirty and we were landing in Plaku and 361 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: they hit us. Going in plane made a very bad 362 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: rough landing and it started my back problems then. But 363 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: those things happen. Those things happen. But you must have 364 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: seen rough action. How was that? A couple of good ones. 365 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: I ended up in the hospital in Osaka, needed skin grass. 366 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: My brother wasn't so lucky. He died there. M hm. 367 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that, younger brother, two years younger. 368 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: I understand that you were given some serious award, the 369 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: Army Commendation Medal for valor. But they gave it to 370 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: you at the police roll call. Isn't that unusual? It 371 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: was good pr The conversation so far had gone better 372 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: than Bill Pepper could have expected. Frank Strauser was calm 373 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: and willing to talk about what things were like in 374 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: Memphis back in the day, but that's all he had 375 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: signed on to do. He hadn't agreed to talk about 376 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: the murder of Dr. King, and Pepper didn't expect to 377 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: get Strousser to fess up to anything or rat out anybody. 378 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: But he also didn't want to squander at the opportunity 379 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: to poke a ound. Do you remember where you were 380 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: when King was shot? Uh? Yeah, I was at home. 381 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't home. I had had been at home. I 382 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: forget what time he got killed. He got killed about 383 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: six o'clock in the afternoon, because I was I think 384 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: I was working seven to seven. I know I was 385 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: working seven to seven, so I was on my way 386 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: to work because I heard it on the radio that 387 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: he had been assassinated, and I was on my way 388 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: to the precinct down at headquarters to go to work. 389 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember hearing it on the radio driving to work? Yes, 390 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: driving to work. Then I'll hell broke loose. I guess 391 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: what happened. The riots broke out downtown. There was so 392 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: much going on that I went on twelve hour shifts 393 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: probably for the next six weeks. Pepper, of course, is 394 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: quite certain that Frank Strausser was not at home or 395 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: in his car when King was killed, but Strouser is 396 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: disarmingly relaxed about it all. So Pepper decides to lay 397 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: a few more cards on the table. Do you know 398 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: what I've done? Who I am? I have no idea. 399 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: I was James Earl Ray's lawyer from until he died. 400 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: Oh okay. I only took him on after I spent 401 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: ten years convincing myself that he wasn't guilty of the crime. 402 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: I tried desperately to get him a trial. I failed. 403 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: Banham locked up all the way. Family knew Martin Luther 404 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: King the last year of his life. After he was killed, 405 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: I just walked away from it all. Politics and everything. 406 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: Then in seventy seven, Abernathy called and asked me to 407 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: question Ry in prison. I said, what are you talking about? 408 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: They got the right guy. But six months later I 409 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: spent five hours with James Earl Ray and it was 410 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: clear to me that he wasn't the shooter. The family 411 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: asked me to look into it further. I want to 412 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: know what happened to have closure. Strousser at first isn't 413 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: sure how to respond to this. He stumbles just a 414 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: touch and ends up by denying that he had ever 415 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: anything to do with James ol Ray. Bill Pepper had 416 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: never suggested it. Do you know, if you have children, 417 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: you know you want to find out who did it. 418 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm just, I'm just I had no dealings with James 419 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: Earl Ray, never saw him. So Pepper tells Strausser that 420 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: he knows he didn't know James ol Ray. It was 421 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: an easy call because no one in Memphis knew James 422 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: el Ray. Strousser then follows with a remarkable opinion as 423 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: to why the case against Ray doesn't make much sense. 424 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: I'll just say this much, and I have a profound 425 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: belief in this. I don't think James el Ray could 426 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: have put all this together. You're right about that. Now 427 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: where it goes from there? Bill, I don't know. I 428 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: could be totally incorrect. But with the kind of criminal 429 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: background he had, this guy was, you know, he was 430 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: a petty criminal. How can a guy like this I 431 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: don't think I ever had this thought before. Why would 432 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: he want to kill Martin Luther King? Yes, there's no motive. 433 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: He's a black leader and you're a James are array 434 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: over here? What's the reason for killing exactly? I mean 435 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: to drift into Memphis and to suddenly have access to 436 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: a room across the street and a rival, and then 437 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: to drop the rival in a bag or a mattress 438 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: or wrapped up in something. Give me right, he didn't 439 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: do it. There must have been other people involved. One 440 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: of the things I enjoy while trying to unravel this 441 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: mystery is that people who are likely neck deep in 442 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: the murder don't seek refuge in the official story of 443 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: how the King killing went down. You heard similar stuff 444 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: from Lloyd Jowers when he spoke to Andrew Young and 445 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: Dexter King. Oh Ray couldn't have done all this, not 446 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: in a million years. The official story is so weak. 447 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: The framing of Ray so obvious that even the beneficiaries 448 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: of this story run away from it. So Strouser thinks 449 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: there were other people involved. But who Pepper has an 450 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: idea too. The thing is as hard as I've looked, 451 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: I never found any indication that the CIA or the 452 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: agency was involved in the killing of Martin King. I 453 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: have found strong indications that the FBI was involved, and 454 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: that Hoover was involved. Hoover hated King, hated him. He 455 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: used Clyde Toulson, his number two, to come in here, 456 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: bring money and set it up through the Dixie Mafia. 457 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: So even lowly patrolman understood at the time that j 458 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: Edgar Hoover hated Martin Luther King. Not a great character 459 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: reference for the man who was ultimately put in charge 460 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: of the murder investigation. But Pepper's mention of the Dixie 461 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: Mafia brings forth an unexpected confession from Strousser. Years ago. 462 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: There was this article in the press, Simitar about people 463 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: who had some connection to the Dixie Mafia, and my 464 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: name was in there. You could have sued him, you 465 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: could have. No. To be quite candid, I guess they 466 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: got it right because I had not been involved directly. 467 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: But I had known some pretty questionable characters, you know, 468 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: from the Dixie Mafia to the actual mafia, and it 469 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: was well now that I was in a lot of 470 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: activity with people who were involved in that sort of livelihood. 471 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: Frank Strousser has just admitted that over the years he 472 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: had engaged in a lot of activity with some pretty 473 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: questionable characters, and Pepper thinks this might be the time 474 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: disturb the pot. He tells Strouser that after the murder, 475 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: the Memphis police made a plaster cast of a fresh 476 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: footprint in the yard behind Jours Place. This is true, 477 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: a size thirteen footprint, and that's significant because not that 478 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: many men have a size thirteen hoof. So Pepper then 479 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: asked Strousser the size of his shoe, and years later 480 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: he told me what he saw on Strousser's face, and 481 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: he said thirteen and a half with a little grin 482 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: on his face. He was telling me something, wasn't he. 483 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: Pepper may have gotten a grin from Strousser, but if 484 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: he thought he'd get more of a reaction and he 485 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: was wrong. So Pepper decided to try something else. He 486 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: told Strousser that as Jowers near death, he had named 487 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: him as the shooter. This was not true. Jowers had 488 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: done no such thing. He had named Captain Clark and 489 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: by extension, himself as being out in the yard, but 490 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: he never named Strousser, and Pepper believes that this was 491 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: because he was afraid of Strousser, who, unlike Clark, was 492 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: still very much alive. So in search of the truth, 493 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: Bill Pepper tells the following lie. Well, Frank, let me 494 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: raise something that I've got to raise with you. First 495 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: of all, I appreciate your candor thank you for that 496 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: and for your time. As you may know, I represented 497 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: the King family here in Memphis, and we sued Lloyd 498 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: Jowers for wrongful death and the King killing. There was 499 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: a civil trial thirty days and seventy witnesses. The jury 500 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: came back in fifty nine minutes and found for the 501 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: family against hours. Jowers, as you know, is dead. Maybe 502 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: he didn't know, Yeah he did, but it wasn't just 503 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: the jury. Before he died, Jowers admitted to myself, Andrew 504 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: Young and Dexter King. He admitted his involvement in the assassination. 505 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: He did, Yes, he admitted it. Betty Spates had nailed 506 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: him because she was at the back door in the 507 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: kitchen when he brought the rifle in. After the shooting, 508 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: Jowers had the rifle. Jowers brought the rifle in, but 509 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: before he died. Hold on yourself. He named you as 510 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: the assassin. He did that, Yes, he named you. Why 511 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: he did this, I don't know. And I found Jowers 512 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: to be a liar on a lot of things, but 513 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: he did. He named you. This surprised me because for 514 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: a long time I thought Clark was the shooter. Clark 515 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: was a hell of a shot, and he lied about 516 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: where he was that afternoon, there was no longer a 517 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: grin on Frank Strouser's face. Earl Clark was a good 518 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: friend of mine. He had strong feelings about certain things. 519 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: Was he a good shot? Oh yeah, and you are 520 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: a hell of a shooter from what I understand, I'm 521 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: a dead shot. I was then, certainly not now. But 522 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: I don't have any idea why Jowers would do that. 523 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: If the purpose of the lie about being named by 524 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: Jowers was to Jossel Strausser into a revealing emotional response, 525 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: it would appear to be a failure. Strousser doesn't get 526 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: upset or angry over the accusation, he just acts perplexed. 527 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: But then Pepper tells Strousser that for a good while 528 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: he had thought Captain Clark was a shooter. Strousser's response is, 529 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: Earl Clark was a good friend of mine. He had 530 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: strong feelings about certain things. These two sentences are the 531 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 1: most real things. Strausser says. The entire afternoon he had 532 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: strong feelings about certain things might be seen as Strousser's 533 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: inter justification for Clark's roll in the murder. And Earl 534 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: Clark was a good friend of mine appears to put 535 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: Strousser right next to Clark in the yard facing the 536 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: Lorraine Motel. How do we come to that? According to 537 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: the literature, a proper sniper team has a spotter and 538 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: a shooter. The shooter has a site on the target 539 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: at all times, but the spotter takes a wider view 540 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: of what's going on around the target. Each man needs 541 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: to know the other well down to how he sounds 542 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: when he's breathing, and it's the spotter who is in 543 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: charge who gives the command to shoot. If Jowers primary 544 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: function is to provide the yard and take the gun 545 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: and hide it. And we say for the moment that 546 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: Clark is the spotter. Who might we imagine the shooter 547 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: to be first, it would have to be someone who 548 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: was an excellent shot. Then you would need someone who 549 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: was tight with Captain Clark, and someone who shoots guns 550 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: regularly with Clark, say at the police firing range. And 551 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: this is why Earl Clark was a good friend of mine. 552 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: Is a tell because Strousser was the perfect fit for Clark. Plus, 553 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: according to Lenny Curtis, Strausser was the one shooting a 554 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: special rifle all morning and into the afternoon on the 555 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: day King was killed. Does Curtis has sworn testimony prove 556 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: that Frank Strousser was out in the yard facing Lorraine 557 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: that day? No, it doesn't, but it does point in 558 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: that direction. So from what we've been able to piece together, 559 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: it appears that Jowers, Clark, and perhaps Strouser you've heard 560 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: the evidence, you can decide for yourselves, were in the 561 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: yard facing Lorraine and one of them fired the shot 562 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: that killed King. If that is true, have we solved 563 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: the case? Not hardly, Because no matter how knowing and willing, 564 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: the men in the yard were and how knowing and 565 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: willing were those who put them there. They were all 566 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: just pawns in this game. To solve this crime, we 567 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: need to know who planned the murder and who helped 568 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: look the other way or went along for the ride. 569 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: Next time on the MLK tapes he was for McCarthy 570 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: ass right wing vision of America. Mr Hunt looked over 571 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: and he says, John, I've just about had a beneful 572 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: of the Kennedy boys. They both need to go. We 573 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: have seen today the dark side of those activities where 574 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: many Americans who were not even suspected of crime, we're 575 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: not only spied upon, but they were harassed, They were 576 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: discredited and at times endangered. My aunt had been the 577 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: victim of Jegor Hoover, you know, lying to her. After 578 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: the march on Washington, there was an acceleration. He was 579 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: defined because of his speech in that demonstration in Washington 580 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: as the most dangerous and effective leader in the country, 581 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: and there was a paper battle between within the bureau 582 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: was to how best to attack him. That he was attacked, 583 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: So the main focus of that meeting was really trying 584 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: to figure out how to take down Martin Luther King. 585 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: They were quite explicit about laying out a campaign to 586 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: destroy King. Thanks for listening to the m l K Tapes, 587 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This 588 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: podcast is not specifically endorsed by the King Family or 589 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: the King of State. Damail Ka Tapes is written and 590 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: hosted by Bill Claiper. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are 591 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: executive producers on behalf of I Heart Radio, with producers 592 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: Trevor Young and ben Keebrick. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay 593 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: are executive producers on half of Tenderfoot TV with producers 594 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: Jamie Albright and Meredith Steadman. Original music by Makeup and 595 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: Vanity Said. Cover art by Mr Soul two six with 596 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: photography by Artemis Jenkins. Special thanks to Owen Rosenbaum and 597 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: Grace Rowyer at u t A, The Nord Group, back 598 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: Median Marketing, Envisioned Business Management, and Station sixteen. If you 599 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: have questions, you can visit our website the email k 600 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: Tapes dot com. We posted photos and videos related to 601 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: the podcast on our social media accounts. You can check 602 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: them out at the email k Tapes. 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