Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, I have a question for you about how
Speaker 1: physics works. All right, shoot, yeah, what happens when it
Speaker 1: doesn't work? Like what happens when you're wrong? That really
Speaker 1: depends depends on what how wrong you are. No, it
Speaker 1: depends on whether you're an experimentalist or a theorist. It
Speaker 1: makes a difference. Oh yeah. For an experimentalist, if you
Speaker 1: are wrong one time, it's like a career death. It's
Speaker 1: like getting caught from murder. You know, once is enough
Speaker 1: to send you away forever. You murdered science. If you
Speaker 1: if your results are wrong, you murdered your credibility. But
Speaker 1: not for a theorist. Like if a theorist is wrong,
Speaker 1: there's no consequence. No, almost every single paper written by
Speaker 1: a theorist is wrong, and in fact, if they are
Speaker 1: right even one time, they win. The Nobel problem does
Speaker 1: sound like better? Odds, Daniel, Why did you even become
Speaker 1: an experimentalist? I asked myself that question every day. I
Speaker 1: am Jorge make cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle of physicist, and though I've
Speaker 1: never been wrong in a scientific paper, I have zero
Speaker 1: Nobel prizes, No wait, that's not actually true. I do
Speaker 1: have a tiny slice of a Nobel Prize. Well, you
Speaker 1: could be wrong about having a Nobel Prize, like you could.
Speaker 1: I could write a paper about having a Nobel Prize
Speaker 1: and they'll be wrong and then get a Nobel Prize
Speaker 1: for it in literature maybe. But anyways, welcome to our
Speaker 1: podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe Even the Wrong Parts,
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio, in which we take
Speaker 1: a trip around the universe, giving you a tour of
Speaker 1: everything that's amazing, everything that's exciting, everything that's real, and
Speaker 1: everything that's theoretical. Not just what's out there in the universe,
Speaker 1: but what's inside the minds of scientists, what they're hoping
Speaker 1: to discover out there in our universe. That's right, We
Speaker 1: take you on a trip across the cosmos, not just
Speaker 1: to see what's there, but what might be there. What's
Speaker 1: physicists think might be the next big idea that could
Speaker 1: revolutionize how we understand the universe. And we have a
Speaker 1: special group of people whose job it is just to
Speaker 1: come up with crazy ideas that might describe our universe.
Speaker 1: You have a group of people just to be wrong.
Speaker 1: Is that kind of how it works. They only have
Speaker 1: to be right occasionally. But yeah, basically, just throw ideas
Speaker 1: out there. It's like the brain, the brain trust. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a brainstorming, you know, like maybe the universe
Speaker 1: works this way. Go check. Oh no, I guess not.
Speaker 1: Maybe the universe works that way. Go check. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I guess not. Keep coming up with ideas, folks, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the universe is pretty crazy out there. You know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that we didn't expect,
Speaker 1: and so as crazy as an idea might seem right now,
Speaker 1: it could be right. Yep. Absurdity is no obstacle to reality.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't take a theory of physics and
Speaker 1: say that's too crazy, because some of these crazy ideas
Speaker 1: turned out to be real, you know, quantum mechanics and relativity.
Speaker 1: There have been moments in history when we had to
Speaker 1: accept things that were very difficult to swallow, and that
Speaker 1: means we need to keep our minds wide open to
Speaker 1: future crazy ideas. Yeah, you could be absurd and be
Speaker 1: right at the same time. That's the situation of the universe.
Speaker 1: That's your review of the Universe on its Amazon web page.
Speaker 1: Absurd but right, absurved but true. Five stars. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: kind of like this podcast a Cartoonists and physicism physics
Speaker 1: for an hour, And I wonder what that's like sometimes
Speaker 1: for a theorist, because I'm not a theorist. You know,
Speaker 1: you spend your life coming up with ideas maybe there's
Speaker 1: this particle, maybe the universe works that way, and and
Speaker 1: predicting them and suggesting ways to check but almost never correct. Right.
Speaker 1: Most theorists who write papers, most of their theories don't
Speaker 1: even get checked because we can't check all of them,
Speaker 1: and when they do, mostly they just get ruled out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I guess there are a lot of theorists out there
Speaker 1: and they can't all be right right, and they can't
Speaker 1: all be checked. So how does how do these ideas
Speaker 1: come through to get checked? Yeah? Well, if you're a theorist,
Speaker 1: you have some crazy new idea, you say, I think
Speaker 1: the universe works this way, and then you have to
Speaker 1: make a prediction. You have to say, well, if somebody
Speaker 1: did such and such experiment, they could verify my theory.
Speaker 1: Like Einstein had his theory relativity, and he predicted something
Speaker 1: would happen when light bent around the sun or when
Speaker 1: light bent around the moon during an eclipse, so it
Speaker 1: make a very specific prediction. Then the key is you
Speaker 1: have to find an experimentalist someone to do that experiment
Speaker 1: and check your prediction. If you can't convince anybody that
Speaker 1: your prediction is worth checking, it just doesn't get checked.
Speaker 1: Is there like an app for physicists to match experimentalists
Speaker 1: with theories, you know, like a dating app physics or
Speaker 1: or checker. Yeah, I'm not sure. Um, you know it's
Speaker 1: sort of arbitrary. You know, experimentals will read a paper
Speaker 1: and say, oh, that's really cool, I want to check that.
Speaker 1: Or me as an experimentals, I'll go to conferences and
Speaker 1: talk to theorists and hear about the new ideas and
Speaker 1: try to think about what's most interesting to test. Because
Speaker 1: you can't test everything, you have to make your choices. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you swipe left or right depending on whether
Speaker 1: you think it could be right or what are you
Speaker 1: based on? Like is it is it? Are you tempted
Speaker 1: by like, oh that would be a big fish to catch,
Speaker 1: or are you tempted by like is this an easy
Speaker 1: fish that I could verify? Well, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: I'm a bit unusual in particle physics. Most people choose
Speaker 1: theories that they think sound sort of aesthetically beautiful, like
Speaker 1: supersymmetry and gravity and all these things. They have like
Speaker 1: a deep fear redical reason to motivate that theory, like
Speaker 1: why we think it exists? Um. For me, I'm more
Speaker 1: interested in stuff that's uh going to be a surprise,
Speaker 1: Like I'd like to look for something that isn't predicted,
Speaker 1: So I try to do experiments that nobody's predicted, because
Speaker 1: then if you see something new, a new particle, then
Speaker 1: you get to be the first person to describe it,
Speaker 1: and it sort of comes out as a pleasant surprise
Speaker 1: for the community. So it is like a dating app.
Speaker 1: You swipe left or right if it's like, oh this
Speaker 1: is beautiful, I like it, or on this floats my boat,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna swipe it. All right, You're right, I give up.
Speaker 1: Physics is just like a dating app. It's basically the
Speaker 1: same thing. Well a lot of it. Amazing and incredible
Speaker 1: discoveries have been made this way. For example, the Higgs
Speaker 1: boson was really just a theory out of the blue,
Speaker 1: and it was a theory for a long time until
Speaker 1: people decided to try to test it. That's right, and
Speaker 1: people spend decades trying to test this theory, and finally
Speaker 1: we build a collider or powerful enough that we could
Speaker 1: create the Higgs boson and prove that it existed. And
Speaker 1: so this theory is to fifty years or Elier had
Speaker 1: predicted the existence of this particle, was proved right and
Speaker 1: got his Nobel prize. Yeah, that was like a like
Speaker 1: a twenty billion dollars swipe there, you know, that was
Speaker 1: a big swipe that that was good dollars. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't the only one to predict it.
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of controversy when we discovered
Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. Who was going to get the prize
Speaker 1: for it? Should it just be Higgs, should also be
Speaker 1: this guy Englert who was around and wrote a lot
Speaker 1: of very similar papers but didn't get his name on
Speaker 1: the particle. And then there was a whole other group
Speaker 1: of people that wrote very similar papers, but we didn't
Speaker 1: get any part of the prize. That's right, And so
Speaker 1: today we'll be talking about a prediction from a theorist
Speaker 1: that maybe should have gotten the Higgs Nobel Prize but didn't.
Speaker 1: And he made his second prediction about the universe that
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about today. That's right. And
Speaker 1: this comes from a question from a listener. Somebody wrote
Speaker 1: it and said, hey, could you explain this to us?
Speaker 1: I just don't get it. Yeah, So this is a
Speaker 1: question that Peter from Poland sent us via email, and
Speaker 1: so to be on the pro and we'll be asking
Speaker 1: the question what is a cosmic string? I don't want
Speaker 1: to string people along. Let's just let's just get down
Speaker 1: to it. Daniel. Yeah, well I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: silly string versus string theory, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: different combinations there, but a lot of strings in physics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question. Thank you Peter from Poland for
Speaker 1: writing in, and anybody out there, if there's something in
Speaker 1: physics you've heard about but haven't really understood any of
Speaker 1: the explanations, send to us. We're going to try to
Speaker 1: break it down. And this is a tantalizing subject because
Speaker 1: we're not just talking about strings. We're talking about cosmic strings.
Speaker 1: So they sound like a very big deal, and they
Speaker 1: are kind of a big deal. They're not small strings
Speaker 1: like maybe some people might be imagining it. That's right.
Speaker 1: This is not you know, star studied strings in your
Speaker 1: drawer or anything like that. These are things that could
Speaker 1: span the entire observable universe. And so we were wondering
Speaker 1: how people had heard of these two words put together
Speaker 1: costmaking strings out there, and how many people maybe even
Speaker 1: had an idea but what it could be. So, as usual,
Speaker 1: Daniel went out there and as people in the street,
Speaker 1: if they've heard what a cosmic string is, so before
Speaker 1: you hear these answers, think to yourself for a moment,
Speaker 1: do you know what a cosmic string is? What would
Speaker 1: you say if I asked you on the street. Here's
Speaker 1: what people had to say. It sounds like a Marvel
Speaker 1: movie before me? Is that similar to string theory? The
Speaker 1: loops that way upon it's like a fifth dimension potentially?
Speaker 1: Do you know all this stuff? I don't know any
Speaker 1: of this. I don't know any it's something, um, I
Speaker 1: don't have no idea. Cosmic strings something that uh, and
Speaker 1: then I think that's what space string. QUITE have no idea.
Speaker 1: If you laugh, is it sound funny? It just sounds
Speaker 1: like like science fiction. I heard of cosmic bowling. You're
Speaker 1: not cosmic cosmic bowling? What's that? That's when they shut
Speaker 1: down the lights for Friday night bowling, strings that you know,
Speaker 1: unite like different potential space and time like you Yeah,
Speaker 1: like space and time like a pass I guess in
Speaker 1: a way when it's stringing together, str together, I have
Speaker 1: no idea something to deal with. I don't know um energy, energy,
Speaker 1: and I don't have no idea how okay, but so
Speaker 1: very much obviously cosmic, yes, but strings those starts together now,
Speaker 1: all right, Not a lot of familiarity, although I do
Speaker 1: like the answer the person who said it sounds like
Speaker 1: a Marvel movie to me, which it totally does. You know,
Speaker 1: infinity stones, cosmic strings, quantum realm. You're you guys are
Speaker 1: all watching the same movies. You could put cosmic in
Speaker 1: front of anything. It would sounds like a Marvel movie.
Speaker 1: Cosmic quantum, cosmic bowling. I like that answer. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that does sound like a good idea. I'd like to
Speaker 1: go to cosmic bowling, cosmic breakfast, cosmic fast. All right. So,
Speaker 1: not a lot of people seem to know what it was,
Speaker 1: although it definitely sounded science and science fiction. A lot
Speaker 1: of people said, oh, it sounds like science fiction, or
Speaker 1: it sounds like something that might be related to string
Speaker 1: theory or physics or energy. It definitely has a science
Speaker 1: feel to it. Yeah, and it might have just been
Speaker 1: the way my hair looked that day. Maybe it looked
Speaker 1: more like a crazy physicist, or maybe it just does
Speaker 1: sound like a sort of a physics thing. So people
Speaker 1: are definitely guessing that. I'm trying to imagine how you
Speaker 1: can look more like a physicist, Daniel, It's kind of hard.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to imagine. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: guess I could put on a lab coat. I mean
Speaker 1: I don't usually with a lab code when I'm walking around.
Speaker 1: You put on a marble costume and boom, I need
Speaker 1: an m c U lab coade so I can do
Speaker 1: both things at once. Oh, that would be that's a
Speaker 1: good idea. Actually print um something fun on a lap code.
Speaker 1: M that sounds like merch. Get on that people, next
Speaker 1: product for the Daniel and Jorge explain the universe store.
Speaker 1: But all right, so let's get into it. Daniel, what
Speaker 1: what are they? What is a cosmic string? And I
Speaker 1: I am totally with the people on the street. I've
Speaker 1: never heard of this concept before this morning. Well there's
Speaker 1: a good reason, because cosmic strings are a pretty crazy idea.
Speaker 1: They're pretty far out there, but they're really fun and
Speaker 1: conceptually sort of mind blowing, which is why I think
Speaker 1: the theory stuck around for a while. People get swiping
Speaker 1: it because it sounded fun. Yeah, everybody wants this theory
Speaker 1: to be true. And so what is a cosmic string?
Speaker 1: A cosmic string is a line in space where the
Speaker 1: space itself is a little bit different from the way
Speaker 1: spaces for us, from me and you and most of
Speaker 1: the space in the universe. It's like a little bit
Speaker 1: of leftover from the Big Bang where it never quite
Speaker 1: cooled and relaxed the way the space for us has.
Speaker 1: It's like a pocket, like a pocket or a bubble,
Speaker 1: or like a stretch dog bubble. Is that kind of
Speaker 1: what mean? No, it's a really long, thin line, like
Speaker 1: it's maybe a phemptometer wide, so like super duper tiny,
Speaker 1: like the width of a proton. But then it can
Speaker 1: be super long, like it could be as long as
Speaker 1: the observable universe, like nine billion light years. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like a crack in space itself. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: have to think about what space is and remember that
Speaker 1: space used to be really different. Right back when the
Speaker 1: universe was created. Everything was hot and dense and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of energy everywhere. And remember that space is
Speaker 1: not emptiness. Space has all this stuff in It has
Speaker 1: these quantum fields. And when you put energy into space,
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're making those fields wiggle. And
Speaker 1: so back in the very early universe, those fields were
Speaker 1: going crazy because it was so much energy everywhere. So
Speaker 1: everything was wiggling really fast, and everything had a lot
Speaker 1: of energy. In our book, we talked about how space
Speaker 1: is kind of like a goo. It's like, it's not emptiness.
Speaker 1: It's more like it's like something that you're swimming in almost,
Speaker 1: and it can wiggle and bed and push you in
Speaker 1: different directions. Right, that's right. Gravity does really weird things
Speaker 1: to space. It can stretch it, it can bend it, it
Speaker 1: it can ripple it. But for now, let's just think
Speaker 1: about like one unit of space, Like what's in that
Speaker 1: box of space? And in that box of space are
Speaker 1: quantum fields. Now, the universe started out really hot and
Speaker 1: dense and really energetic, and those fields had a lot
Speaker 1: of energy in them. But the space that we're familiar
Speaker 1: with that operates in the way that we expect, like
Speaker 1: has electrons in it and and atoms and stuff that
Speaker 1: only came about after the universe relaxed a little bit.
Speaker 1: We talked about on the Higgs Boson episode that there's
Speaker 1: one of these quantum fields, the Higgs one, that when
Speaker 1: it relaxed, when the universe cooled down, that this field
Speaker 1: didn't go all the way down to zero, sort of
Speaker 1: got stuck on a shelf. Right, Like the field that
Speaker 1: the universe is made out of are not necessarily static,
Speaker 1: like they can be kind of buzzing with energy. That's right.
Speaker 1: Every time you have a particle that's a ripple in
Speaker 1: the field, which means you've injected energy into it. Now,
Speaker 1: most of the few can go down to zero like
Speaker 1: you've got no electrons in your box of space. That
Speaker 1: fuel is at zero. But the Higgs boson never gets
Speaker 1: down to zero. Got stuck on this shelf. And so
Speaker 1: how does that explain these pockets or these cracks in space?
Speaker 1: So what happens when the universe is expanding, is it
Speaker 1: it's cooling, right, All this energy is getting spread out
Speaker 1: into more and more space. It's like you're stretching out
Speaker 1: the fields, right, Like you're stretching them out basically, and
Speaker 1: so they calmed down. Yeah, you have the same amount
Speaker 1: of energy in more space, and so it gets deluded.
Speaker 1: So everything's like cooling and relaxing and sort of like
Speaker 1: you know, you you toss your blanket over your bed
Speaker 1: and it sort of settles down and settles over your bed, right,
Speaker 1: like a cosmic nap is like a cosmic blanket. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it settles down. But the Higgs field got stuck. Right.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. The Higgs field has lots of
Speaker 1: different ways to get stuck on that shelf. Is that
Speaker 1: shelf is not just like one little balcony. It's like
Speaker 1: a long round balcony, and the universe can get stuck
Speaker 1: in different spots on that shelf. And so as the
Speaker 1: universe is cooling, if this chunk of space over here
Speaker 1: got stuck on a different spot then that chunk of space,
Speaker 1: then there's this sort of boundary between them, this place
Speaker 1: between them that doesn't quite work because it's sort of
Speaker 1: trapped between space that got that cooled in two different ways.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like how you know, water or air
Speaker 1: has different states like solid liquid and gas, and you know,
Speaker 1: as you cool something down, you can form these little
Speaker 1: pockets of liquid or gas or what's either one solid
Speaker 1: water crystal. Yeah, it's like when you, like when you
Speaker 1: stick water into the freezer and it cools down and
Speaker 1: forms ice. It doesn't form like this perfect solid of ice.
Speaker 1: It forms like it has bowls and cracks and wiggles
Speaker 1: and it is that kind of what you're saying, is
Speaker 1: happened happened? Or how is happening to space right now?
Speaker 1: Exactly like that, if you cool water down, then you
Speaker 1: get a crystal. But it doesn't, as you say, turn
Speaker 1: into a crystal all at once. There's these sites that
Speaker 1: begin because they're the coldest, little dots, and the crystals
Speaker 1: start to form there, and then they form out from
Speaker 1: those little spots where they have nucleated. And then what
Speaker 1: happens when two crystals meet, You have this boundary, right,
Speaker 1: and you don't have a perfect crystal. You have a
Speaker 1: defect in the crystal. That's why, like some diamonds are
Speaker 1: perfect and some diamonds are not because there's a defect
Speaker 1: there where in the crystal where one half of it
Speaker 1: is cooled in a different time than the other half,
Speaker 1: so they're not all lined up perfectly. The same thing
Speaker 1: happened to space, maybe, like there are imperfections in space,
Speaker 1: there are imperfections in their defects or cracks in space.
Speaker 1: Where on one side the Higgs field, it's at the
Speaker 1: same level, right, it's just pointed in a different direction,
Speaker 1: because the Higgs field has sort of two we call
Speaker 1: them degrees of freedom, the level let it relaxed that
Speaker 1: and also where on that shelf it got stuck. So
Speaker 1: if this chunk of space is stuck on a different
Speaker 1: spot in the shelf, then that chunk of space, it's
Speaker 1: sort of like your ice cooling at different ways. In
Speaker 1: different ways, the stoles are oriented in different directions, and
Speaker 1: so at the boundary you get this thing that doesn't
Speaker 1: quite make sense. So I always thought the universe was
Speaker 1: pretty pretty good, but I guess it's not a triple
Speaker 1: A diamond quality space. I mean, I love our universe.
Speaker 1: I would not trade it in for anything. I think
Speaker 1: it's perfect just the way it is. But it might
Speaker 1: have these cracks in it, right, And we don't know.
Speaker 1: We have never seen one of these things, but it
Speaker 1: might have these cracks in it. That's the idea. That's
Speaker 1: the concept of a cosmic string, cosmic flaws in space itself.
Speaker 1: And so along that line, it's like the universe never
Speaker 1: got to cool because it doesn't know like should I
Speaker 1: cool in this way or should I cool in the
Speaker 1: other way. It's sort of like trapped between them, and
Speaker 1: so it still has that energy density from the initial
Speaker 1: universe when everything was really hot and dense. And so
Speaker 1: these cosmic strings, even though they're really really thin, they're
Speaker 1: like a femtometer wide. They're incredibly massive, and they could
Speaker 1: be holding energy like the cracks or the flaws in
Speaker 1: the universe could be storing some sort of energy or
Speaker 1: tension into them. Absolutely incredible amounts of energy. Like two
Speaker 1: centimeters of a cosmic string weighs as much as Mount Everest.
Speaker 1: A kilometer of cosmic string weighs more than the Earth.
Speaker 1: And so we're talking about these things. They could be
Speaker 1: like ninety billion light years long. It's an enormous amount
Speaker 1: of energy. What you just totally correct my mind here, Daniel,
Speaker 1: cosmically cosmically dude. But all right, so let's get into
Speaker 1: it and why is physicists think these crazy cracks might
Speaker 1: exist and whether or not they're real. But first let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break. Okay, so you're saying that as
Speaker 1: the universe was cooling or assets cooling right now, you
Speaker 1: might have these areas these lines, these huge lines in
Speaker 1: space that are sort of like cracks, like where space
Speaker 1: is kind of freezing into different crystals like structures or
Speaker 1: different modes, and so you have these kind of edges
Speaker 1: to the wrinkles in space itself due to the Higgs
Speaker 1: field precisely, and we are in the crystal part, right,
Speaker 1: we're in the part of space that cooled, and these
Speaker 1: chunks of space that all cool sort of together. That's
Speaker 1: like could be as wise nine billion night years like
Speaker 1: the observable universe. So it's not like you have a
Speaker 1: little pocket of space, assize your hand and the next
Speaker 1: pocket is different, the next pocket is different. If there
Speaker 1: are these pockets and they're vast, they're incredibly enormous, but
Speaker 1: then at their edges there can be these cracks. And
Speaker 1: you're saying, these edges, these boundaries look like strings, and
Speaker 1: so why don't they look like walls or like you know,
Speaker 1: planes out in space. Why is it shape like a
Speaker 1: long like you're super thin but really long string. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great question. That's because the Higgs boson. The
Speaker 1: field for the Higgs has a lot of different ways
Speaker 1: you can relax, Like there's one level at which you
Speaker 1: can relax one and energy level, but on that energy
Speaker 1: level can sort of point in a lot of different directions.
Speaker 1: And so the way to get a boundary is like
Speaker 1: if you had two different energy levels and and the
Speaker 1: boundary like a would be like a plane between them.
Speaker 1: But um, because there's only one energy level, everywhere in
Speaker 1: space has that energy level, but they just point in
Speaker 1: different directions. And so what you get is this defect
Speaker 1: that's like a string. And then as you go around
Speaker 1: the string, the Higgs field is pointing in different directions,
Speaker 1: and so it points in a different direction every point
Speaker 1: around the string. And then the only place where you
Speaker 1: can't get sort of like smoothness is along this one
Speaker 1: infinitesimally thin line where space doesn't know where to point
Speaker 1: because every point everything around it is pointing in a
Speaker 1: different direction. So it's like I can't relax. I don't
Speaker 1: know which way should I go. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: me in this podcast, We're going in every direction. What
Speaker 1: happens if I touch one of these strings? Like what
Speaker 1: if I'm touch one of these things and I run
Speaker 1: into like, you know, like a spiderweb, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: walking down the street and just run into one. Well,
Speaker 1: I would recommend wearing oven myths first of all, because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of energy there. Oh, that's right, they
Speaker 1: trap energy. It's like a so I guess it's more
Speaker 1: like a wrinkle in space. Right, It's not so much
Speaker 1: like a crack, but it's more like, you know, like
Speaker 1: you're tucking in or you're bending a lot of space
Speaker 1: along the line of it. Yeah, a wrinkle is a
Speaker 1: good way to do it. I think a cosmic wrinkle
Speaker 1: um would have been a good way to sell this
Speaker 1: thing that could be the sequel to the Plaguind novels
Speaker 1: A Wrinkle in Space Time. Turns out there was physics
Speaker 1: behind that novel. You would notice one almost immediately if
Speaker 1: you saw one, because there's so much mass that they
Speaker 1: bend the space around them the way everything does. Everything
Speaker 1: with mass bend space, and it would cause a huge
Speaker 1: gravitational lens. So it would really distort the way light
Speaker 1: moved around it. Wow, like a black hole. Be like
Speaker 1: a black string. Yeah, it would be a lot like
Speaker 1: a black hole, except it would be really really thin
Speaker 1: and very very long. Okay, there would be probably crazy
Speaker 1: stuff happening around it, right, like a you know, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't just sort of sit there in space that there
Speaker 1: would be you know, some kind of you know, cosmic
Speaker 1: storm kind of swirling around it. Would there be uh
Speaker 1: in the m c U version of this movie, then yell.
Speaker 1: The visual effects would be dramatic all around it. Is
Speaker 1: that what you're thinking? Yeah, yeah, what what does the
Speaker 1: gauntlet that holds the cosmic strings look like? No, it's
Speaker 1: actually fascinating because, unlike a black hole, which has enormous
Speaker 1: gravitational pull and so has a huge amount of stuff
Speaker 1: around it, like a maelstrom that's like giving off light
Speaker 1: because of all the gravitational energy and the and the
Speaker 1: title forces, cosmic strings don't actually provide a strong gravitational pull,
Speaker 1: like they distort space, but they don't necessarily create gravity themselves.
Speaker 1: It's a really weird consequence. It depends on the shape
Speaker 1: of the string, if they're a loop or if they're straight.
Speaker 1: It's actually quite complicated. Didn't you say that it has
Speaker 1: more mass than the Earth? Yes, or like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just really massive, but it's a mass but no gravity.
Speaker 1: It has mass, it distores space, so it can become
Speaker 1: a gravitational lens, but it doesn't necessarily attract you because
Speaker 1: of the configuration of it. It depends precisely on the
Speaker 1: shape of it. Remember, general relativity tells us that gravity
Speaker 1: is much more complicated than just things that have mass
Speaker 1: pull on each other. It depends a lot on the
Speaker 1: shape of that stuff. That's why if you have the
Speaker 1: right configuration of stuff, you can even get repulsion like
Speaker 1: dark energy. And so these cosmic strings are a really
Speaker 1: weird little object. And and it depends exactly on the
Speaker 1: configuration of it whether you get pulled into it or repelled,
Speaker 1: or whether it basically ignores you. So when you say
Speaker 1: it's massive, it's it's really more like the equals mc square,
Speaker 1: Like it just has a lot of energy to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it has a huge amount of energy, a lot of
Speaker 1: energy density in a really small spot. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: it sounds kind of dangerous and that maybe you don't
Speaker 1: want to run into one of these strings out there
Speaker 1: in space unless you want to win a Nobel prize,
Speaker 1: unless you want to die trying, I guess. But why
Speaker 1: why do phacests think they might exist? Is this thing
Speaker 1: that you're pretty sure of or it's a crazy idea?
Speaker 1: What would what would make someone think of these strings
Speaker 1: as possibly being out there? Well, it comes from this
Speaker 1: guy named Tom Kibble, and Kibble was one of the
Speaker 1: folks who was around when the whole idea of the
Speaker 1: Higgs boson was being invented, This question of like how
Speaker 1: do particles get mass? And do we need to invent
Speaker 1: a new quantum field that fills space that gives particles mass?
Speaker 1: And you know, anytime theorists come up with some new idea,
Speaker 1: then they like to play with it and they say, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: now we have a new toy, this Higgs field. What
Speaker 1: else does it mean? You know, how can we what
Speaker 1: consequences would it have? And so he was thinking about
Speaker 1: the early universe and how the Higgs field would be
Speaker 1: cooling as the universe expanded, and then he hit on
Speaker 1: this idea. He thought, wait a second, what if it
Speaker 1: doesn't cool evenly? Would you get these cracks? And I
Speaker 1: guess that was just really fun to think about. He
Speaker 1: also he didn't get included in the Nobil Prize because
Speaker 1: he sort of came in a time he'd bit too
Speaker 1: late on those papers. So maybe he was going for
Speaker 1: a backup Nobel Prize strategy. I wonder if his name help,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the committee was like, we can't give
Speaker 1: it no prize to someone named Kimble. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a whole group of people. There's like three folks out
Speaker 1: there who were writing papers right at the same time
Speaker 1: as Higgs and Englert, and they just got totally snubbed
Speaker 1: by the Nobel Prize committee. Wow, it's just about when
Speaker 1: they submitted the paper or when when they came up
Speaker 1: with the idea. There's a lot of controversy because it's
Speaker 1: you know, some journals that the date on the paper
Speaker 1: reflects when you submitted it, and in other journals it
Speaker 1: reflects when it was finally accepted after review. And so
Speaker 1: there's a lot of controversy about who came up with
Speaker 1: the idea first. And you can only give the prize
Speaker 1: to three people. And the three people who everybody mostly
Speaker 1: agrees came up with the idea first Higgs, Englert, and Brown.
Speaker 1: They were they won the prize except for Brown who
Speaker 1: had died already, so it was just split to the
Speaker 1: Higgs and England. And then in the second tier they
Speaker 1: were like three people and so they were like, well,
Speaker 1: it either it gives two or we give it to five.
Speaker 1: We can't give it to five, so I guess we'll
Speaker 1: just snub that whole second tier. Wow, is there a
Speaker 1: runner up Nobel Prize honorary. Yeah, it's sort of like
Speaker 1: fake gold, you know, just like hollow plastic. It's not
Speaker 1: nearly as cool. Okay, so that's the theory. The theory
Speaker 1: is that asked the universe is cooling, You got these
Speaker 1: kind of flaws and how the Higgs field was cooling down,
Speaker 1: and so you form these crazy strings. But they're not
Speaker 1: related to string theory, right. That might be confusing because
Speaker 1: they're both strings, but there are totally different scales. That's right,
Speaker 1: they're not related to string theory at all. String theory
Speaker 1: deals with like the fundamental nature of the universe on
Speaker 1: the smallest scale, like ten to the minus thirty five meters,
Speaker 1: is everything actually made out of these tiny vibrating strings.
Speaker 1: The thing they have in common is the sort of
Speaker 1: analogy we use in our minds where we put them that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, this thing is really long and thin, so
Speaker 1: let's call it a string. So fundamental strings that are
Speaker 1: really tiny we think might be these one dimensional objects.
Speaker 1: So they're really long and thin, not that long actually, um,
Speaker 1: but they're much longer than they are thin and cosmic strings.
Speaker 1: Are you know, light years long and a femptometer thin.
Speaker 1: So the only thing they really have in common is
Speaker 1: that name. But there's there were other reasons to think
Speaker 1: that cosmic strings might have existed, all right, So then,
Speaker 1: so what was the motivation for these Like I know
Speaker 1: they were playing around with the theory of the Higgs field,
Speaker 1: but what makes this a particularly fun theory, like you said,
Speaker 1: or interesting theory to look for. Well, you're right, it's
Speaker 1: a fun idea and it's fun to play with, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that get theories excited and
Speaker 1: fun to play with. I mean, they're fun strings. That's
Speaker 1: what they do. They just go in their office and
Speaker 1: play with strings. Um No, The thing that made this
Speaker 1: idea sort of stick in people's minds was that they
Speaker 1: thought it might solve a problem that we had, which
Speaker 1: is that we didn't understand like why we had galaxies.
Speaker 1: We didn't understand why the universe had structure at all.
Speaker 1: We talked about this on the podcast before, like the
Speaker 1: universe started totally smooth. How do you get any clumping?
Speaker 1: How do you get things started so that gravity can
Speaker 1: take over and give you stars and planets and rabbits
Speaker 1: and hamsters? Right, Like where did that initial texture of
Speaker 1: the universe come from, or the initial clumping of stuff? Exactly?
Speaker 1: We could have been in a universe where everything was
Speaker 1: just spread out and bland and boring and gray. Right,
Speaker 1: that's right. And somebody was thinking about cosmic strings early on,
Speaker 1: and they calculated like, well, how many cosmic strings would
Speaker 1: there have been? And then they calculated like, well, how
Speaker 1: many galaxies are there? And those two numbers were pretty similar,
Speaker 1: so that they thought, wait a second, me, me, cosmic strings, galaxies.
Speaker 1: Maybe the reason we have structures because of cosmic strings.
Speaker 1: Maybe these cracks in space, these imperfections, are the reason
Speaker 1: that stuff started to clump together and form structure and
Speaker 1: planets and hamsters and ice cream and bananas. So maybe
Speaker 1: cosmic strings explained the universe. It would have tied everything
Speaker 1: up pretty neatly with a string, exactly. It would have
Speaker 1: been quite the cosmic solution. That's why people got excited
Speaker 1: about it, because you have this new toy which is
Speaker 1: connected to this fun new theoretical idea of higgs boson,
Speaker 1: and maybe it solves the problem you have. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: it sounds really tantalizing, and I'm definitely seeing the fun
Speaker 1: of it. And I definitely feel like I'm being strung
Speaker 1: along here to some interesting conclusion. So let's get into
Speaker 1: whether or not they are real and how we might
Speaker 1: actually see these cosmic strings out in space. But first
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break. Okay, Daniel, So our cosmic
Speaker 1: strings real, and how will we know? Are we Are
Speaker 1: we going to see them out in space? Are we
Speaker 1: gonna be looking out into space one day and see, like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, what is that little crack we check
Speaker 1: our glasses and our telescopes. It's not a crack in
Speaker 1: the lens. It's an actual crack in space, in the
Speaker 1: universe itself. That would be pretty awesome. I mean, what
Speaker 1: a thing to discover, What a moment that would be,
Speaker 1: to see a crack in space itself. Unfortunately, no human
Speaker 1: has had that experience yet. As far as we know,
Speaker 1: there are no cosmic strings out there. Like how you said,
Speaker 1: no humans. I don't want to rag on alien science,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm hoping those guys have made some advances
Speaker 1: well past what we have done, so that when they
Speaker 1: come visit, they share with us all those secrets. No
Speaker 1: human that we know of, no human that we know of,
Speaker 1: and no human would make this discovery, and I think
Speaker 1: keep it to themselves because it would be of really
Speaker 1: cosmic significance. And remember we also we can't say they
Speaker 1: don't exist. We can just say we haven't seen them,
Speaker 1: so we don't know that they exist. Okay, so we
Speaker 1: haven't seen one yet, but it's a theoretical prediction that
Speaker 1: it sounds fun and that might explain some of the
Speaker 1: structure in the universe. So are people looking for these
Speaker 1: cosmic cracks or are we just hoping that one day
Speaker 1: we maybe see them, Like, are active search for these cracks?
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for alien you accords to come pulling
Speaker 1: one and drop it on the Earth. That's what that's
Speaker 1: what they used to steer the the cosmic unichorus. They
Speaker 1: used cosmic strings. No, that will be the opening scene
Speaker 1: in the Marvel movie about cosmic strings. Um. But people
Speaker 1: were thinking that maybe this affected the shape of the universe,
Speaker 1: and they had all these predictions like if these cracks
Speaker 1: in space were the things that caused sort of the
Speaker 1: large scale structure, the reason we have galaxies, then they
Speaker 1: had predictions for how the universe should have sort of
Speaker 1: been rippling in its first moments. And remember that we
Speaker 1: have seen the early universe. We can look back in
Speaker 1: time and see what the universe looked like when it
Speaker 1: was very young. Called this the cosmic microwave background radiations
Speaker 1: leftover glow from the Big Bang. But didn't these strings
Speaker 1: form way after the Big Bang when everything was cooling down?
Speaker 1: Or or was it that it? Did they start wrinkling
Speaker 1: right after the Big Bang? Right after the Big Bang? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's when as space was expanding. That's when sort of
Speaker 1: things were cooling and the ice crystals of space were forming,
Speaker 1: and and the cosmic microwave background happened like hundreds of
Speaker 1: thousands of years later. And now we've seen that. So
Speaker 1: these cosmic strings, the idea was invented before we had
Speaker 1: precise measurement of this cosmic microwave background light, and it
Speaker 1: made very specific predictions for what that light should look like.
Speaker 1: And then we saw that light from the early universe
Speaker 1: and it didn't look right. It doesn't look the way
Speaker 1: you would expect it to if cosmic strings were real, Really,
Speaker 1: you would see this in the cosmic microwave background, Like
Speaker 1: aren't these I mean, aren't these cracks you're saying they're
Speaker 1: one phantometer? Then how would you even see them? In
Speaker 1: the cosmic background. If they're there and they did affect
Speaker 1: the sort of structure of the universe, you would start
Speaker 1: to see that structure beginning to form in the very
Speaker 1: early universe. I mean they've had three hundred thousand years
Speaker 1: or so to start to get things starting to wiggle,
Speaker 1: and we do see structure in the early universe. I
Speaker 1: mean early universe is very smooth because it was early
Speaker 1: on and things were just getting started. But we look
Speaker 1: at that light and we see like hot spots and
Speaker 1: cold spots. We can analyze those rates of hot spots
Speaker 1: and cold spots and say what theory would give us
Speaker 1: sort of that level of fluctuation, that level of structure
Speaker 1: at that time, and cosmic strings just predicts sort of
Speaker 1: a different distribution of hot spots and cold spots than
Speaker 1: we see. Really, even if them, what if there aren't
Speaker 1: as many strings as you thought there might be, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like maybe there's just just far
Speaker 1: and few in between for you to see them. Know,
Speaker 1: the pattern is just wrong. It's not like about the number,
Speaker 1: it's about the distribution, how far apart they are and
Speaker 1: sort of how they affect the shape of space. Instead,
Speaker 1: it's totally consistent with just quantum fluctuations in the early
Speaker 1: universe then getting blown up by inflation. So there were
Speaker 1: sort of two competing theories, like this random fluctuation plus
Speaker 1: inflation or cosmic strings. And now the data really look
Speaker 1: a lot like random fluctuations plus inflation and not like
Speaker 1: cosmic strings. I guess that's good, right, because if it
Speaker 1: turned out that the the universe as a baby had
Speaker 1: a lot of wrinkles in it, that would be kind
Speaker 1: of strange and disturbing, wouldn't Who wants to see a wrinkly,
Speaker 1: old looking baby. Man, if the universe is listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast, you're in trouble. I'm already in troubled in
Speaker 1: But you know, if cosmic strings do exist, they don't
Speaker 1: have to have formed the structure. This is like, if
Speaker 1: they caused the structure, here's what that structure should look like.
Speaker 1: But they could still exist. It could be that they're
Speaker 1: still out there. They're just not responsible for the structure
Speaker 1: of the universe as we know it. Oh, I see,
Speaker 1: we know that there. They maybe didn't have a hand
Speaker 1: in structuring the universe, but they could still be out there.
Speaker 1: They're just sort of like under the radar more than
Speaker 1: you thought they would be. That's right, and so we
Speaker 1: have other ways to look for cosmic strings that people
Speaker 1: are actively doing right now. What are some of the
Speaker 1: ways that we can search for these cosmic strings. Well,
Speaker 1: cosmic strings have a lot of energy density, and so
Speaker 1: they do this gravitational lensing thing. They bend space, and
Speaker 1: so if you have a really bright source of light
Speaker 1: behind a cosmic string and you're standing in front of it,
Speaker 1: then you see like sort of a doubling of an
Speaker 1: image because the light we get bent around the string.
Speaker 1: Like if I had a flashlight and there's a cosmic
Speaker 1: string between us, and I turned on my flashlight, you'd
Speaker 1: see two bulbs, right, But wouldn't aren't these strings really thin?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to think about how much distortion
Speaker 1: a little string, and Megan, it would be kind of tiny,
Speaker 1: right would it would be really hard to see, Like
Speaker 1: a small imperfection in such a huge canvas would be
Speaker 1: really thin, but it'd be really really massive. Right. Say
Speaker 1: we took them Mount Everest and squeezed it down to
Speaker 1: a tiny string, right then it could have a significant impact,
Speaker 1: all right, So and we would we would maybe see
Speaker 1: not not as a lens but like a kind of
Speaker 1: like a lens in the form of a string, kind
Speaker 1: of like we would see doubles all along the string itself, precisely.
Speaker 1: And so what we've done is we looked out in
Speaker 1: the space and we look for this kind of effect.
Speaker 1: And we see gravitational lensing all the time in space.
Speaker 1: Usually it's black holes or blobs of dark matter, this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But as you say, a cosmic string
Speaker 1: would look a little different. And people have seen like
Speaker 1: pairs of galaxies in the sky near each other that
Speaker 1: looked really really similar, and they thought, oh, wait, maybe
Speaker 1: that's a cosmic string, but then they look closer when
Speaker 1: they discovered nope, it's just two similar galaxies. It's not
Speaker 1: a reflection. It was just Bob's hair that fill in
Speaker 1: the lens of our telescope. Yeah, And so these days
Speaker 1: there's another way to look for cosmic strings that people
Speaker 1: think is the most promising. What's that? And that also
Speaker 1: has to do with their gravitational effects, because these cosmic strings,
Speaker 1: we don't think they're just floating there. We think that
Speaker 1: they are so much energy, they're like whipping and ripping
Speaker 1: and crackling. No way, what Yeah, like you know, lightning
Speaker 1: bolts um coming from fingertips in a marble movie. Right, yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: they're active, these strings, These boundaries can move, yeah, because
Speaker 1: I guess the the field is shifting around it, and
Speaker 1: so the boundaries is like fluid. Yeah. And also the
Speaker 1: strings can get twisted and if they cross over each other,
Speaker 1: they can break, and then you get ends, and those
Speaker 1: ends can like whip around like crazy. It's it's pretty nuts.
Speaker 1: Can they form loops and knots? They can form loops absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can you make a cosmic knot? I cannot make a
Speaker 1: cosmic knot, but the universe might be capable. If you
Speaker 1: get one of these crazy strings in a in a
Speaker 1: strange shape, then its movement can get generated a lot
Speaker 1: of gravitational waves. And we now have gravitational wave detectors
Speaker 1: like Ligo that saw when two black holes aid each other,
Speaker 1: or when two neutron stars collided. They create these ripples
Speaker 1: in space itself, and we can see that now. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's like a picturing like a snake trashing in a
Speaker 1: puddle of water, Like it's moving and it's generating ripples
Speaker 1: that we might be able to see precisely, but we
Speaker 1: don't know how fast they move, and so they could
Speaker 1: be like zipping around really fast, generating enormous signals of
Speaker 1: gravitational waves that we could detect. Or it could be
Speaker 1: like a cosmic time scale thing where they're like decades
Speaker 1: long signals. These ripples, you have to like take data
Speaker 1: for a hundred years before you see the up and
Speaker 1: the down, So we don't quite know what to look for.
Speaker 1: They could be not whipping around, but maybe just whipping
Speaker 1: around precisely, precisely, And so people are using gravitational wave
Speaker 1: detectors here on Earth. Do you have these long hauls
Speaker 1: filled with vacuum and lasers to measure space really precisely
Speaker 1: to see if these little ripples, And then people also
Speaker 1: trying to use the entire galaxy as a gravitational wave detector. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why not? Well, I mean, I got other things to
Speaker 1: use the galaxy war but if it's there, if it's there,
Speaker 1: might as well use it to find cosmic blacks whole strings?
Speaker 1: Why not? Yeah? And I love this idea because, um,
Speaker 1: it just sort of takes what's already out there and
Speaker 1: tries to use it to do science. Like you could
Speaker 1: never build a galaxy size physics experiment, but hey, just
Speaker 1: take the galaxy and turn it into an experiment. I
Speaker 1: love this idea. And so what's the idea here that
Speaker 1: the string might as it's moving around, kind of affect
Speaker 1: the things around it. The idea is just to build
Speaker 1: a bigger detector, Like the larger your gravitational wave detector
Speaker 1: is the smaller wiggle you can see. It's easier to
Speaker 1: see in a larger detector because it's uh, it's just more.
Speaker 1: You have more sensitivity too, because it's over more space.
Speaker 1: And so the idea is to build one the size
Speaker 1: of the galaxy. You know, you can't build your own detector,
Speaker 1: but there are things out there that you can use
Speaker 1: as a detector. And the thing that we can use
Speaker 1: are these stars called pulsars. These are stars that are
Speaker 1: emitting light in a regular pattern like when they were
Speaker 1: first discover They you see these these regular beaps from space.
Speaker 1: And so if the space between us and some of
Speaker 1: these pulsars gets wrinkled and a little bit or ripples happen,
Speaker 1: then it changes how the pulsing of these pulsars. And
Speaker 1: so the idea is to use all of these sort
Speaker 1: of measure the smoothness of space. Oh, I see, but
Speaker 1: that's only if these strings are moving fast enough for
Speaker 1: us to sort of noticed them or notice the difference. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If if they take a hundred years to send a signal,
Speaker 1: then our grand students are going to be really old
Speaker 1: before they get their PAGs. You don't sound that surprised, Daniel,
Speaker 1: like it's a big deal. You're like, I might take
Speaker 1: a five years or hundred years. I can't. Hey, it's research.
Speaker 1: I can't predict, right, That's what I always tell my students.
Speaker 1: You never know. You're the first person to ever do this.
Speaker 1: So you told them that you could be wrong. I
Speaker 1: tell him, We've never published a paper knowingly wrong yet,
Speaker 1: so don't be the first. So many caveats in that statement, Daniels,
Speaker 1: So many caveats. I had that vetted by my legal department.
Speaker 1: All right, So I guess that answers a question. What
Speaker 1: is a cosmic string. It's a It's like an imperfection
Speaker 1: in this in the fabric of the universe itself. It's
Speaker 1: like a wrinkle caused by the stretching of it and
Speaker 1: the weird cooling of the hicks Field. I can't believe
Speaker 1: I just said that in one sentence. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: know these quad and fields are not just an idea,
Speaker 1: they're real. They're out there. And as the universe cooled
Speaker 1: from the like hot nasty quantum fields, too cold crystallized
Speaker 1: quantum fields that we have today, then how that cooling
Speaker 1: happened could have affected the way the universe is formed.
Speaker 1: And it's cool to think that what we might do
Speaker 1: with this knowledge, right, Like, if we know that space
Speaker 1: can wrinkle and crack like this, who knows what we
Speaker 1: could do with space? Possibly? Can we faul space? Can
Speaker 1: we make space origami? The one thing we can never
Speaker 1: do is get the Nobel Prize for Tom Kimble. Oh
Speaker 1: did he pass away? He passed away? So he missed
Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize for the Higgs boson. And if he
Speaker 1: was right about cosmic strings, he missed that one also, Right,
Speaker 1: But you can still get in on the party by
Speaker 1: maybe being the president of the food discovers it? Right,
Speaker 1: that's right, and maybe time people will get another kind
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Nobel Prize acceptance speech, which is almost
Speaker 1: like a run rough prize. Right. Well, I guess the
Speaker 1: idea is that maybe someone listening to this out there
Speaker 1: might be the person who discovers it. Might be you
Speaker 1: might be me. Might be someone listening to this who
Speaker 1: discovers these wrinkles in reality that's right, or something even crazier.
Speaker 1: The next time you hear a theorist talk about some
Speaker 1: totally bonkers notion about the way the universe or space
Speaker 1: might work, then remember there are crazier ideas out there
Speaker 1: that are actually real. That's right. They could still be crazy,
Speaker 1: but they might also be right. You never know, m
Speaker 1: that's the wrinkle on your reason. Thank you very much,
Speaker 1: Peter for that question. I love email questions from listeners,
Speaker 1: so please, if there's something you'd like to hear us discuss,
Speaker 1: send it to us two questions at Daniel and Jorge
Speaker 1: dot com. You hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: See you next time. Before you still have a question
Speaker 1: after listening to all these explanations, please drop us a line.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. You can find us
Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's
Speaker 1: one word, or email us at Feedback at Daniel and
Speaker 1: Jorge dot com. Thanks for listening, and remember that. Daniel
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio for More podcast from my Heart Radio visit
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Yeah,