1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Hey, did you guys ever hear about this Willy shakes dude. 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: Kind of a big deal. They teach him in high school, 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: so you know he's important. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 3: Willy triple shake, that's what I remember of him, The 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 3: old triple shaky because it's so big, you gotta shake 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 3: it three times. 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: Old two hand Shakespeare. 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 3: You don't want to get anything on the pantaloons, right right. 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: The playwright William Shakespeare is sort of famous in English 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: because he is considered to be one of the most 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: influential authors in human history. He's also cartoonishly prolific. Between 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: about fifteen ninety and sixteen thirteen, he wrote something like 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: thirty seven different plays or was it Francis Bacon or 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: was it a brand name? 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 4: Right? 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: The same way that you know, you go into an 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: airport and you will see paperbacks written by purportedly the 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: same author. 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 3: Oh wait, are we talking about Bill Shakespeare? 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 2: Oh? You know Bill, Billy, Billy Willy. 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 5: You know what is that from? 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 3: What's that from? He's a regular Bill Shakespeare. That's like 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 3: a line that's in my head. 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 4: Sounds like some Will Ferrell or Adam Sandler comedy basically 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 4: invented comedy too by the way well Billy shakes. 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I always thought that the first human 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: who invented comedy was the person in a survival situation 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: who lived when someone. 29 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 3: Else died Seinfeld, Right. 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: So we are thrilled to introduce you to a group 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: of what we will call renegade academics. Their street name 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: is anti Stratfordians. Their idea is that the storyory of 33 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: William Shakespeare himself is just. 34 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: That, a story, a narrative. What part of it is true? 35 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 6: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 6: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 37 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 6: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. 38 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. 39 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: Our friend Noel is on some adventures. 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: As we record today, they. 41 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: Call me Ben. We are joined with our guest super 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: producer Ramsey Ramjams junt so say hello to him when 43 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: you get the chance. Most importantly, let's. 44 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: Talk about you. 45 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: You are here. 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: You are you that makes this stuff they don't want 47 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: you to know. 48 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 3: I really thought he was talking about me that time, 49 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: because he looked right at me when he. 50 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: Said the show, the show would be nothing without you 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: met as numerous Apple Music or Apple Podcast reviews have assured. 52 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: Us, Oh really, well, I don't know if that's true, 53 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 3: but I agree with it. Well, you know what, none 54 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: of us would be who we are today if we 55 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 3: didn't have a certain playwright, a man that we all 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 3: call back to, that we all imagine as perhaps the 57 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 3: father of. 58 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: Plays, the father of plays. 59 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: At least when I was growing up, I always imagine 60 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: him as like the play, the one from which all 61 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 3: other plays that I was reading kind of sprung from, 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: or at least we're heavily influenced by. 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: He's the most well known. That's a fact. 64 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: We are talking, fellow conspiracy realist about Shakespeare. William Shakespeare 65 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: from Stratford on Avon. Do you did you ever act 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: in Shakespearean production? 67 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 3: I was never in a full on production. I have 68 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: did many a scene. Yes, My favorite, I would have 69 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 3: to say, came from the Tempest, and it included just 70 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: a line that has really influenced my whole life. I think, 71 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: what is it? I might paraphrase here, but it is 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 3: Hell is empty and all the devils are here, or 73 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 3: something to this effect, because all the devil's here. I 74 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: don't remember exactly his language. 75 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: But I know the paraphrase. The paraphrase is enough to 76 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: convince the least take us to that line. 77 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 78 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: I did some Shakespeare's stuff as well in high school 79 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: and early college, I believe. But past is a watercolor 80 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: in the rain, you know, things blur. I'm still pretty 81 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: sure it happened today. Playwright William Shakespeare is widely acknowledged 82 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: as one of, if not the most influential writers in 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: the English language. His plays have been read or performed, 84 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: whether in part or a whole, numerous points millions of 85 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: times across the planet over centuries. Yeah, people are reading this, 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: they're performing parts of it, they're performing entire productions. Here 87 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, where this podcast is based, there's the Shakespeare Tavern, 88 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: which we can mention a little bit later. I just 89 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: want to drop that seed here. Shakespeare was also quite prolific. 90 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 1: Between about fifteen ninety and sixteen thirteen. Uh, he wrote 91 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: at least thirty seven plays, collaborated on several more. 92 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: But who was this man? Who was Willie Shakes? Really? 93 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: No, we're just gonna go ahead and push this little button. 94 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 3: That's I don't know who left this button here, But 95 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: let's just let's present and see what happens. 96 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 5: Hey, guys, I heard you were asking who Shakespeare was. 97 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 2: Whoa Jonathan Strickland. 98 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 3: Hi, that's what the button was. 99 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's labeled Strickland. 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, you know, marked out Quister because this is 101 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 5: the same show, the same show as that. 102 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: That's true. 103 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So. 104 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 7: I actually have the honor maybe honor is too strong 105 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 7: a word to be playing William Shakespeare at the twenty 106 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 7: nineteen Georgia Renaissance Festival. So, as you might imagine, I 107 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 7: have done my fair share of research into this subject, 108 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 7: and there's a lot of stuff I could tell you, 109 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 7: but I feel like to really get a grasp on 110 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 7: why William Shakespeare is this person we still talk about 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 7: four hundred years after he last wrote anything. I want 112 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 7: to recite to you one of the most famous speeches 113 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 7: from Shakespeare. And there's tons right, there's to be or 114 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 7: not to be. There's two two solid flesh. Those are 115 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 7: two speeches about suicide from the same play. He has 116 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 7: a famous Shakespeare's But no, I'm going to recite to 117 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 7: you one of my favorite speeches in all of Shakespeare's 118 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 7: from the History of Henry the Fifth, and it's called 119 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 7: the Crispins Day speech, and this is to set the scene. 120 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,119 Speaker 7: The English army is in France. They are outnumbered five 121 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 7: to one. They have been spending the entire previous day marching, 122 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 7: so they're exhausted, whereas the French troops are fresh, And 123 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 7: just as the lords of England are are looking out 124 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 7: and they're feeling a sense of dread. They're talking with 125 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 7: one another about what is to come. And one of them, Westmoreland, 126 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 7: says that he wishes that just ten thousand more Englishmen, 127 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 7: who are otherwise laying in bed back in England had 128 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 7: joined them. And the king happens to overhear him. And 129 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 7: so is that's to set the scene. Here's the speech. 130 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: Oh Paul, could Paul Ramsey? Could we get maybe a 131 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: nice sound design. 132 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 3: Some rousing music? 133 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 5: Yeah? What's he that wishes? 134 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 7: So, my cousin Westmoreland, No, my fair cousin, if we 135 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 7: are mocked to die, we are enough to do our 136 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 7: country loss. 137 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 8: And if to live the few of the men the 138 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 8: greater share of our honor God's will, I pray THEE 139 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 8: wish not one man more. 140 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 5: By Jove. I am not covetous for gold, nor care 141 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 5: I who doth feed. 142 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 7: Upon my cost It earns me. Not if men my 143 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 7: garments wear such outward things, dwell not in my desires. 144 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 7: But if it be a sin to covet honor, I 145 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 7: am the most offending soul alive. Now faith my cous 146 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 7: wish not a man from England God's peace. I would 147 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 7: not lose so great an honor as one man, more, methinks, 148 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 7: would share for me. For the best hope I have, Oh, 149 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 7: do not wish for one more. Rather proclaim it westmelit 150 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 7: through my host, that he which hath no stomach to 151 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 7: this fight, Let him depart. His passport shall be made, 152 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 7: and crowns for convoy put into his purse. We would 153 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 7: not die in that man's company that fears his fellowship 154 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 7: to die with us. This day is called the Feast 155 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 7: of Chrispian. He that outlives this day and comes safe home, 156 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 7: will stand a tiptoe when this day is named, and 157 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 7: rouse him at the name of Chrispian. He that shall 158 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 7: live this day and see old age, will yearly on 159 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 7: the vigil feast his neighbors and say tomorrow is Saint Chrispian. 160 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 7: Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars, 161 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 7: and say, these wounds I had on Chrispian's day, old 162 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 7: men forget, yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember 163 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 7: with advantages. 164 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 5: What feats he did that day. Then shall our names, 165 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 5: familiar in his mouth as household words, Harry the King, 166 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 5: Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester be 167 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 5: in their flowing cups freshly remembered this story shall the 168 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 5: good man teach his son and Crispin Crispians shall ne'er 169 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 5: go by from this day to the ending of the world, 170 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 5: But we in it shall be remembered. 171 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: We few, we happy, few, we. 172 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 5: Band of brothers. 173 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 4: For he today that sheds his blood with me shall 174 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 4: be my brother. Be he ne'er so vile this day 175 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 4: shall gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England now a bed. 176 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 8: Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold 177 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 8: their manhoods cheap. 178 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 5: Whilst any speaks that. 179 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 7: Fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day, Now, now here's 180 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 7: the thing, God, here's the thing that really really brings 181 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 7: that back. 182 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 5: So this speech. 183 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 3: There's a little bit more, all right, thank you. 184 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 7: But that speech that I mean Shakespeare, not me, that 185 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 7: that speech was all meant to try and rouse the 186 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 7: troops to fight, and in fact wes Moreland himself says, 187 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 7: he turns to Westmoreland says, do you want to have 188 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 7: someone join us now? And west Moreland says, if it 189 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 7: were just me and you, we could take them all. 190 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 7: And sure enough, as the story unfolds, the French lose 191 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 7: thousands and the English number they're dead at twenty five 192 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 7: twenty five hundred twenty five. 193 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: And this is historically accurate more or less. 194 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 7: Yes, the Battle of Agincore was a phenomenal battle in 195 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 7: which the English faced overwhelming odds against the French, but 196 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 7: they used a lot of interesting tactics, including using the 197 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 7: longbow and hiding essentially kind of guerrilla warfare in the 198 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 7: woods to the sides of the battlefield to kind of 199 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 7: shower the French with arrows. 200 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, use it. 201 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, it turns out that's a really useful tactic. But 202 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 7: this speech, I think is one of those that to 203 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 7: this day tends to be one of the ones that 204 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 7: in England is referred to as a truly patriotic speech. 205 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 7: This idea of that because there are so few of us, 206 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 7: that actually makes this even more of an honorable action. 207 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 7: And for those of you who do live. Just imagine 208 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 7: the stories you're going to be telling your children and 209 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 7: their children, and how everyone from this point forward will 210 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 7: remember that you were here, Like, that's an incredible thing. 211 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and at the time, let's see, So Henry Henriett 212 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: fifth was written around fifteen ninety nine. 213 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, correctly, Yeah, it was. 214 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 7: It was in the second second Henriad, actually the Henry Ad, 215 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 7: which was the second four play series in his histories. 216 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: And the battle we're referring to occurred in fourteen fifty. Yes, 217 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: so this is at the time the first time at 218 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: stage this is an historical work, you know what I mean. 219 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: People were regarding this in some ways similar to the 220 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: way modern audiences regard things like a World War II 221 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: film or maybe The Patriot with mel Gibson or Braveheart 222 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: with Me you know something, but not necessarily with mel Gibson. 223 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 7: Well, and the English history plays from Shakespeare that spans 224 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 7: eight plays, from Richard the Second to essentially h Richard 225 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 7: the Third. Yeah, that's that's oddly enough, Richard the Second 226 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 7: and Richard the Third, not back to back. There's a 227 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 7: whole bunch of kings in between. 228 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 5: So the. 229 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 7: That story is actually the War of the Roses, that 230 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 7: that entire sequence of plays. And the interesting thing to 231 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 7: me is that Shakespeare wrote the four plays that represent 232 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 7: the end of that Henry the Sixth, Parts one, two 233 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 7: and three, and Richard the Third, he wrote those earlier 234 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 7: in his career, and then he wrote the four plays 235 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 7: that represent the beginning of the War of the Roses, 236 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 7: Richard the Second, Henry the Fourth Part one and two, 237 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 7: and Henry the Fifth. 238 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 5: Those he wrote later. 239 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 7: So you could think that kind of like Lucas, he 240 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 7: went back and wrote the prequels, and like Lucas, we also. 241 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 5: Knew where this story had to end up. 242 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 7: I mean, this was history, although he takes great liberties 243 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 7: in his history play, yes. 244 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 5: But it was this. 245 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 7: This eight series of plays tells you the full history 246 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 7: of the Lancasters and the Yorks, from the point where 247 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,479 Speaker 7: Richard the Second abdicates his throne and gives Henry Bolingbrooke, 248 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 7: who becomes Henry the Fourth, control of England, all the 249 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 7: way up to when Richard the Third loses the crown 250 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 7: and Henry Tudor, the father of Henry the Eighth, who 251 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 7: in turn was the father of Queen Elizabeth, his monarch 252 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 7: at the time. Like that was that full story. So 253 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 7: this was a story that a lot of the Englis 254 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 7: knew very. 255 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: Well, and this is an excellent summation, or I would 256 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: say a slice of the pie. 257 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: Shakespeare wise. 258 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: Again, we have to thank you for that excellent recitation. 259 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: We do once recommend if you happen to be in 260 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: the area, that you check out the Georgia Renaissance Festival. Jonathan, 261 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: I know that I give you a lot of guff 262 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: off air because it makes my day to do. 263 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: So I'm not going to stop on weekends. 264 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 7: I put on tights, I run around in Georgia weather. 265 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 7: It's all right. 266 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: I admire that part. 267 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 3: And just by way of a plug and very honest one, 268 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 3: I took my son last year and he absolutely adored it. 269 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's the sort of thing that I loved as 270 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 7: a kid, and honestly, it's the interactions with kids that 271 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 7: I still enjoy. 272 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 5: Yeah. 273 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 7: It runs mid April through the first weekend of June, 274 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 7: and if you do go, there will be open auditions 275 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 7: with William Shakespeare. I'll be auditioning parts. So if you 276 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 7: if you've ever wanted to stand up on a stage 277 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 7: and recite, I'll have lots of different speeches on hand. 278 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 7: From all the different plays so that we can we 279 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 7: can cast all the I mean, I'm going to be 280 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 7: performing all the shows. I got to cast every single part. 281 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'll go. Yeah, well I'll go. 282 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 7: But I'm I can't wait to hear the rest of this. 283 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 7: So I'm waiting for you to tell me that Shakespeare 284 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 7: didn't write Shakespeare, so I can lay the smack down that. 285 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that because the. 286 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: Originally we examined this, this group of thoughts as a 287 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: video in our YouTube video series and it was fascinating 288 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: because off air we've all worked together for years, folks. 289 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, off air, there have been times where more 290 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: than once, actually where you, Jonathan, I don't want to 291 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: say quite out of the blue, but you have come 292 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: up to me. We weren't talking about me, think in 293 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: particular to tell me how much this idea has bothered 294 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: you and it bothers a lot of people. 295 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 7: The concept the anti Stratfordians. Anyone who thinks that that 296 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 7: someone other than William Shakespeare must have written the plays. 297 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 7: I find it infuriating and perplexing at the same time. 298 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: But was there even a real William Shakespeare? 299 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 5: Yes? 300 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 7: So well, there are legal documents that have his name 301 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 7: on them. 302 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 3: I've seen six specific Yeah, I was gonna say I've 303 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: seen a few. 304 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: So with that excellent introduction, let's dive into the life 305 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: of William Shakespeare. Let's also just Jonathan, let's go ahead 306 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: and kidnap you. Sure, you work on several other shows. 307 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: You work on tech stuff, you work on the brink, 308 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: You have a malt You're a man of many hats. 309 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm wearing one of them right now. 310 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 5: You are wearing. 311 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: You are wearing. It must have been tough to choose 312 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: the one. 313 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 3: So they give me a porter. 314 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 5: Yep. 315 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: So we're going to there's a story there, So we're 316 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: going to We're going to kidnap you absolutely all right, 317 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: we've conscripted you to be a guest along with Ramsey 318 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: on the show today. Let's explore William Shakespeare. He is 319 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: born in as I believe you had established earlier, fifteen 320 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: sixty four ish, right. 321 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 7: Yeah, sometime around there. We don't have the actual record 322 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 7: of his birth. We have the record of his baptism. 323 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: Right, and that's a relatively common thing at this point 324 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: in the historical record. He was brought up in Stratford 325 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: upon Avon and eventually he was buried there. Of course, 326 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: he made a couple stops in London. Yeah, and he 327 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: maintained his household in Stratford for the duration of his 328 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: career in London. But other than that, the things we 329 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: know for sure about the individual, the human William Shakespeare, 330 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: they seemed relatively scant by today's terms. 331 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 3: Especially for someone who was so influential and did so 332 00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: many things in his life. 333 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: And we don't have as many details as we would want. 334 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: We do know that someone of pretty much the same name, 335 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: the same guy. Again, the person married and had children 336 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: in Stratford, because there is, as you mentioned, that baptismal register. 337 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 6: Right. 338 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: One of the problems that we should establish from the 339 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: jump here is that you can find contemporary written records 340 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: with Shakespeare's name mentioning him, even a few with what 341 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: is confirmed to be his own signature, but the spelling varies, 342 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: and so for people who have an issue with something 343 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: about Shakespeare, they'll say, well, why does the marriage bond 344 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: have shagspear? 345 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 3: And yeah, who's the shagspear Karen? 346 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: Are they the same as Shak's pair? Oh? 347 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was another one, isn't it. Shax p ere 348 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 3: E Shakespeare. 349 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 7: Yeah, I actually actually have answers to these, but I 350 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 7: don't know if you want me to give. 351 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: Them not yet, but there are answers. 352 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: So we do know that William Shakespeare gave evidence in 353 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: a court case. He signed some documents, he went home 354 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: to Stratford. Eventually he made a will and around sixteen 355 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: sixteen he. 356 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 7: Died apparently possibly on the same date that he was 357 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 7: born on April twenty third. That's a guess. It's still 358 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 7: based on the baptism. 359 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, still a guesstimate, but well written, just structurally. 360 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, No, if you're if you're going to have 361 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 7: a mysterious life, being born and dying on the same date, 362 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 7: not the same day, but the same date, is it 363 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 7: does add to that era of mystery, doesn't. 364 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 2: Kind of like Samuel Clemens came or Twain. 365 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 5: That'll bring me back out again. 366 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 367 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's Shakespeare's work in his career, well, a lot of 368 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: it starts obviously in London. He becomes an actor and 369 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: then a shareholder in what was called the Lord Chamberlain's 370 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: Men and the known later as the Kingsmen. Matt were 371 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: what were the Kingsmen? They were the playing company that 372 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: owned the Globe, right. 373 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the part where the Globe Theater, the 374 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 3: world renowned Globe Theater comes in. Also the Blackfriars Theater. 375 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 7: That would be later, but yeah, that was one of 376 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 7: the first indoor theaters in London. 377 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, Jonathan tell us a little bit about the Lord 378 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: Chamberlain's Men. 379 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 5: Sure. 380 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 7: Yeah, So you had theater companies that typically had a 381 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 7: patron that supported their work so that they could get 382 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 7: the upfront costs they would need to put on a performance, 383 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 7: and they would recapture those costs through whatever means like 384 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 7: ticket sales once you got to the theaters. Theaters in 385 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 7: London were brand new when Shakespeare got there. They had 386 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 7: only been around for maybe fifteen years. Before that, you 387 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 7: would typically see a play performed in the courtyard of 388 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 7: an in house or maybe in some real fancy person's 389 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 7: like waiting room that just happened to be as large 390 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 7: as a theater would be, that kind of thing. But 391 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 7: this was a time where theaters as purpose built structures 392 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 7: were brand new in England. So Shakespeare is a part 393 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 7: owner with this theatrical group, which means he gets a 394 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 7: percentage of the box office. That's actually how Shakespeare made 395 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 7: all his money. You didn't make very much money publishing 396 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 7: a play because you didn't publish plays, you performed them. 397 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 7: Shakespeare in his lifetime never published any of his plays. 398 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 7: Some of them got published, but it wasn't his decision. 399 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 7: And so he was making money by helping produce work 400 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 7: that could be performed in this theater and then getting 401 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 7: proceeds from the ticket sales. 402 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: And he was making money off of his own work 403 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: because I think the Kingsman had the exclusive rights to 404 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: produce his plays ye for a period of times fifteen 405 00:22:59,320 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: ninety four. 406 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, he was essentially Essentially he would write material for 407 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 7: the theater that he had ownership in, and he would 408 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 7: also we think, perform in those shows. He was often 409 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 7: listed as one of the actors that we don't know 410 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 7: what parts he played, Like you. 411 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: Think he ever did a one man. 412 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 7: Juliet, I'm going to do a production of Hamlet except 413 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 7: all the characters. We do actually think that he may 414 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 7: have played Hamlet's father's ghost in Hamlet, but there's there's 415 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 7: not a lot of there's not really any hard evidence 416 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 7: to back that up. So so you've got essentially a 417 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 7: guy who owns part of the theater and he's a 418 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 7: gifted writer. Assuming that we're going with the story that 419 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 7: Shakespeare wrote. Shakespeare he's a gifted writer who is supplying 420 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 7: his own theater with material to attract people. You also 421 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 7: have to remember that at the time, let me set 422 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 7: the scene here in London, you have Puritans who are 423 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 7: very powerful in the They do not allow theaters to 424 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 7: operate within the city limits of London, so. 425 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 5: All the theaters are either north of the city or. 426 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 7: South of the city on the across the Thames on 427 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 7: the south part. So if you want to go see 428 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 7: a show and you live in the city, you have 429 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 7: to find you have to pay a ferryman to get 430 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 7: across the river, or you have to travel all the 431 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 7: way to the London Bridge, which is not close to 432 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 7: where the theaters are, make your way to the theater, 433 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 7: pay your penny if you're a groundling, to stand and 434 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 7: watch the show, and then you have to hustle back 435 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 7: because the city gates of London were meant to be 436 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 7: locked at sunset. 437 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 2: Makes sense because of the vampires exactly right. 438 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 7: You know, you don't invite them in, right, so you 439 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 7: have to rush back to London to get back inside 440 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 7: in time so that you could go to bed right. 441 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 442 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 7: The theater district was in the same district as all 443 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 7: the brothels, the bear baiting arenas, the gambling houses, and 444 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 7: the ends of ill repute. 445 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: It was a sleezy It was considered a sleezy profession, Yeah, 446 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: and a sleezy show to attend. 447 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 7: In fact, the sleazy profession is what lends some people 448 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 7: to suggest others who may have written for Shakespeare, because 449 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 7: they wouldn't want their own name attached to so lowly 450 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 7: a profession. 451 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: Ah, there we go. Okay, so now we've hit upon it. 452 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: The one other thing we know about Shakespeare is that eventually, 453 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: in after fifteen ninety six he became a gentleman because 454 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: his father was given a coat. 455 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 7: Of arms which Shakespeare paid for, yes, which. 456 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 2: Did have some money involved. 457 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: And we can talk for hours and hours and days 458 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: and days about probably each place specifically because there's such 459 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: a depth and wealth of connection and I don't know, 460 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 1: ripple effect now in modern society sure. 461 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, And just to put this out there talking about 462 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 3: that ripple effect, my wife just the other day went 463 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: to the Plaza Theater where they were showing a version 464 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 3: of Romeo and Juliet bas Lherman exactly and still still 465 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 3: today in twenty nineteen. The effects are seen like in 466 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 3: those ripples as they you know, as they affected bas Luherman, 467 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 3: as they affected even my wife when she watched it, 468 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 3: and now all the other people who are watch it well. 469 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 7: And then you have all the adaptations like West Side Story, 470 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 7: which is not it's essentially Romeo and Juliet, but it's 471 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 7: a musical, and it's changed the location, it's changed the 472 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 7: two warring families to two gangs. But we still see 473 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 7: these ripples going just as strong. In fact, I wouldn't 474 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 7: even say that they've weakened over time. We might see 475 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 7: them in cycles. It's also interesting to see which plays 476 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 7: are are popular during different eras, because you'll find one 477 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 7: era where Hamlet is considered the height of Shakespeare's genius, 478 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 7: and then after say nineteen sixty or so, it started 479 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 7: to shift toward King Lear. And what it really tells 480 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 7: you is more about the society that is currently enamored 481 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 7: of that specific play than the play itself. 482 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: Right, Like how that remake of our adaptation of Titus Andronicus, 483 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: Police Academy four. 484 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 7: Police Academy four, What's eating you? 485 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 2: It's true? So this guy, this individual. 486 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: This playwright is so prolific, especially even even in a 487 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: modern day setting. Writing thirty seven plays that aren't garbage 488 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: is a phenomenal feat. 489 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and. 490 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: This guy did it without the access to the wealth 491 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: of instantaneous near instantaneous information we have today, without a 492 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: word processor, probably without probably without a lot of help, 493 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: or did he have help. It is a huge body 494 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: of work for one man, and it's not surprising that many, 495 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: many people from various walks of life disagree with what 496 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: we just gave you. We gave you the official narrative, 497 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: but what about the people who don't agree with it? 498 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: We'll explore their side of the story after a word 499 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: from our sponsors. 500 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 2: Here's where it gets crazy, So, Matt. 501 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: Earlier Jonathan mentioned the rise of a group of people 502 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: called the anti Stratfordians. 503 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 3: Anti Stratfordians. 504 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 5: There are many flavors of them. 505 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: There are There are positively like skittle level, you know. 506 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 3: That six or seven. 507 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: Well, let's taste the rainbow find out. 508 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: So, so, Matt, what what are these people? 509 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: What's their what's their stick? What's their thing? 510 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's it's groups of people who, over the 511 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 3: centuries have come together and agreed that they do not 512 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 3: agree that William Shakespeare wrote all of his plays. They are, 513 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: at least some of them don't believe he wrote any 514 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 3: of them. Some believe that William Shakespeare wasn't even actually 515 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 3: William Shakespeare or a person necessarily. And it varies very 516 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: it varies widely. 517 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Yes, and some people disagree with their own disagreements, you 518 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: know what I mean. The anti Stratfordians are not a 519 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: monolithic group. The one thing they agree on is they 520 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: don't think that William Shakespeare did everything. Yes, and they 521 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: have some beef with each other within their community. But 522 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. There's the idea that someone else wrote 523 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,959 Speaker 1: the place. There's the idea that Shakespeare's maybe an umbrella term, 524 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: similar to the theory about Banksy the Street Artist, probably 525 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: one of the best in the world right now. 526 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: There's the theory that you know. 527 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 7: That's actually a collective rights operating under a singular identity exactly. 528 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 3: I tend to enjoy that idea. 529 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, for Banksy. But one thing's for sure, this 530 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: particular genre of conspiracy theory has a massive staying power. 531 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: This isn't like a jade helm thing where it comes 532 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: up with an expiration date or a world will end 533 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. 534 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: Think. 535 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: You know, this concept has persisted for some time, but 536 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: it's not as old as most people assume. I would 537 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: argue because, contrary to popular belief, the idea of a 538 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: Shakespeare a Shakespearean conspiracy, or a question about the authorship 539 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: is historically speaking, somewhat recent. 540 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 7: Yeah, there's some some nineteenth century thinkers who were proposing this. 541 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 7: You mentioned Samuel Clemens earlier, Mark Twain. Mark Twain's one 542 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 7: of the people who suggested that perhaps Shakespeare did not 543 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 7: write Shakespeare. 544 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: But that guy's such a troll. Yeah as well. 545 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 7: No, well, I mean, you know, Mark Twain was pretty 546 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 7: much convinced that no one was as clever as he was. 547 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: So you know, I used to love that author true story, 548 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: and to a friend got me a copy of his 549 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: woefully unedited autobiography. 550 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 2: It just goes on and on. I feel like I'm 551 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 2: done with Mark Twain till about twenty thirty. 552 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 5: Well, let's let's lay out why don't you guys. I 553 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 5: don't mean to take over your show. 554 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: No, no, wekid you. 555 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 5: I would love to hear you. 556 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 7: Guys sort of lay out some of the usual suspects, 557 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 7: the ones who are often proposed as the possible people 558 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 7: who actually wrote those Shakespearean for sure. 559 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: Well, the best way for us to get there is 560 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: to explore some of the history. You mentioned nineteenth century 561 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: thinkers who first proposed these. 562 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 5: Alternatives. 563 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 2: Alternatives. Yeah, that's a very safe word. 564 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 3: Yes, that's the eighteen hundreds, everybody, that's yes, that's. 565 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 5: When Samuel Clemens would be right. 566 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: So no one really seemed to doubt that Shakespeare wrote 567 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: these plays until around the eighteen fifties. The first public 568 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: anti strap forty and claim was written by an American, 569 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: Deally A. 570 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 2: Bacon. 571 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: She had an article in Putnam's Magazine in eighteen fifty 572 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: six called William Shakespeare and his Plays, an inquiry concerning them, 573 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: which is, I know what a we need to talk 574 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: kind of a kind of message. But what was in 575 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: this What was the gist of this article? 576 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's it's an opinion that is kind 577 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 3: of valid in a couple of ways and then just 578 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 3: silly and others. So she thought the plays were were 579 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 3: more than stories, like historical stories that are being retold. 580 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 3: She thought they were written deliberately to spread ideas about enlightenment, 581 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 3: about modernity, about progress of humanity, and she thought the 582 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 3: plays were essentially, like I guess, a form of propaganda, 583 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 3: and it was written by a secret committee essentially of people, 584 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: like an illuminati of sorts. I mean, it sounds kind 585 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 3: of silly, but at the same time, it's an interesting 586 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 3: thought experiment if we go into it. And she cryptically 587 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 3: hinted that there was a different person that had actually 588 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 3: written the plays, or at least had had a big 589 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 3: hand in writing the plays, a certain Sir Francis Bacon. 590 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 2: No relation to Delia Bacon. Yeah. 591 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: She she said that there was a secret collective in 592 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: the Bacon. 593 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: Obviously was the was the leader of the group. Uh. 594 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: Delia Bacon never found any any smoking gun evidence for 595 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: her beliefs. 596 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 7: Or or anything beyond her belief vaguely circumstantial evidence. 597 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 2: All right, now, I know you've got some irons in 598 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: the fire on this one. 599 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, we want to know, we want to know, we 600 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: want to know, we want to know, but we want 601 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: to get you set up in the right place. As so, 602 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people will perhaps unfairly uh, cast dispersion 603 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: on deal Bacon because she had a painful private life 604 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: as well. She when she passed away, it wasn't an asylum, 605 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: which was a brutal place to be in that time 606 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: and era. But just like Shakespeare, Just like Shakespeare, she 607 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: had ripple ripples throughout history. As this single article it 608 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: lit the fuse, It lit the fire for what would 609 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: become an explosively controversial line of thinking, and one that 610 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: very much, even in the modern day, aims to be 611 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: considered a serious academic discipline, much to the massive irritation 612 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: of people who are Stratfordians. Yeah, right, exactly, And I 613 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: love academic beef. I think it's I think it's so fascinating. 614 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: But to your question, a little bit of a circuitoust 615 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: way to get there. But to your question, Jonathan, if 616 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: it was not William Shakespeare, if Shakespeare was not the author, 617 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: or if it were a brand name for a bunch 618 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: of people working in secret, who would the actual author be. 619 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: Candidates include Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe. 620 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 5: That would have been a tricky one. 621 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: That would have been a tricky one, just time wise. 622 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 7: Yeah, because he died in a bar fight while several 623 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 7: plays were still being written, although there have been theories 624 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 7: that stated that the plays were already written, either the 625 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 7: place had already been written and then were published regularly, 626 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 7: or performed rather because again they weren't published, I performed 627 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 7: regularly after Marlow's death, or the even crazier idea that 628 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 7: Marlow faked his death in a bar fight and secretly 629 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 7: was still writing the place because he just couldn't give 630 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 7: it up. 631 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, did he move to like Cuba, kind 632 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 3: of like Tupac. 633 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 7: No, he just sort of moved to Southampton and. 634 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: Put you know, you got some different clothes. Yeah, kept 635 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: on a. 636 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 5: Silly wig and a fake nose. 637 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about who Christopher Marlowe is. Sure. 638 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, marlow was another writer and playwright of the sixteenth 639 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 7: century England. 640 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 5: Also was a spy. 641 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 7: He actually did work on behalf of Queen Elizabeth, which 642 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 7: was not the safest of professions. 643 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: I don't think working for a royal family at that 644 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: time is ever going to be an inherently safe profession. 645 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 7: Honestly, Elizabeth in England, any profession was an unsafe profession 646 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 7: because if you were a Catholic you were all that 647 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 7: was that was dangerous by itself, and Shakespeare's family, by 648 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 7: the way, Catholic, so that was But that's another. 649 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: Segary for the time. 650 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 7: Yeah, so so you've got You've got Marlowe, who's uh 651 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 7: he wrote Faust, so famous play's he wrote a couple 652 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 7: of others. He is really well known for writing drama, 653 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 7: was not known for writing comedy, which is possibly why 654 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 7: some people say maybe he contributed some of the plays, 655 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 7: but maybe not all of them, because there just wasn't 656 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 7: any evidence to suggest that he could write comedy. I 657 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 7: would argue that based upon some of Shakespeare's comedies, there's 658 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 7: not a whole lot of evidence that he could do 659 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 7: it either. But no, there's actually some very funny shakespeare comedies, 660 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 7: but there a lot of the humors lost on us, 661 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 7: the modern audience, because we no longer have those puns, 662 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 7: so they don't really make sense to us anymore. But anyway, 663 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 7: so marlow is this very dangerous kind of individual who's 664 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 7: also prolific writer. Also comes from a fairly humble background, 665 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 7: which will be important later exactly so we'll get into 666 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 7: that later. But he ends up trying to come to 667 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 7: the defense of a friend in a tavern, and as 668 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 7: a result of the fracas that breaks out, he sustains 669 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 7: a critical injury and dies. And this is in the 670 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 7: middle of Shakespeare's productivity. 671 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 2: Right. 672 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 7: So that again, assuming that the death is legit and 673 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 7: it wasn't Marlowe trying to fake his death so that 674 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 7: he could live out his golden years, which would have 675 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 7: been many. He was not that old when it happened, 676 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 7: and he was of an age similar to Shakespeare, they 677 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 7: were about the same age. Assuming that that didn't happen, 678 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 7: that he didn't fake his death, it would have made 679 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 7: it very tricky to continue writing. 680 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: Side note, unrelated, this is just a fact I've found, 681 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: and I think you guys would enjoy it if you 682 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: hadn't heard it before. I'm just reminded because of the 683 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: idea of literary buddies or peers, creative peers, Ernest Hemingway, 684 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 1: James Joyce, solid writers, Yeah, I'm being very fair, solid writers. 685 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 2: Notorious drunks. Yes, do you know this story? 686 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: Now? Apparently they were known for getting into bar fights, 687 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: wasn't sur Joyce ed? I mean, you just have to 688 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 1: read fitting its weight to know that the guy runs 689 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: at the mouth bit. But apparently he was somewhat of 690 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: a nebbish character, somewhat of a. 691 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, what's what's another word for nebish? 692 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 2: Milk toast? That's really good, Actually, yeah, it was. It 693 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 2: was a little bit more that. 694 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 7: It didn't come across as masculinity personified the way Hemingway. 695 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 2: Right, so they would be a barfight. 696 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: Allegedly, James Joyce was famous for running his mouth and 697 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: then starting to fight, and then physically running to hide 698 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: behind Ernest Hemingway while yelling like, take care of him, 699 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: him away, Crimson his face. 700 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 2: That's perfect. 701 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: So that notice I just used that as cocktail trivia 702 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: at your next James Joyce or Nest Hemingway themed soare and. 703 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 3: You know, there is a conspiracy that the bar fight 704 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 3: that Chrisopher Marlow got into was actually or there's a 705 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 3: theory that it was a conspiracy to assassinate Marlow. 706 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 7: That's yeah, yeah, well yeah, there are a lot of 707 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 7: stories about that. I mean that was fifteen ninety three, 708 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 7: which in Shakespeare's timeline would be right at the very 709 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 7: beginning of his rise, and those would still be the 710 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 7: plays produced in the early fifteen nineties were still considered 711 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,919 Speaker 7: the sort of the juvenile works of Shakespeare, the ones 712 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 7: before he really found his voice. 713 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: Right, right, And that's like maybe just a year before 714 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 1: the exclusivity agreement comes into effect. Other other candidates include 715 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: the fifth Earl of Rutland, who that's all you need 716 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: to know about them, actually, the sixth Earl of Derby, 717 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: the seventeenth Earl of Oxford. Note that there are a 718 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: lot of aristocrats being named. 719 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 5: Oxford is one of the. 720 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 7: Big ones Oxfordians are. It's one of the larger camps. 721 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: Of anti Stratfordians. 722 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: Yes, and then even Queen Elizabeth one has been proposed. 723 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: That seems a little out there, right. It turns out 724 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 1: there more than eighty potential real Shakespeare's and this is weird. 725 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: Why do people believe this? In the case of Bacon 726 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: Deally Bacon's original argument, you can say there's a little 727 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: bit of classism involved because Shakespeare at the time in 728 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: which Delia writes this article, Shakespeare is very much deified, 729 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: especially especially in his homeland. He's depicted as as a 730 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: person being from a relatively uncultured. 731 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 7: Town, right, a rural old neighborhood. 732 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 3: Right. 733 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: And people say has no formal education, because they'll say 734 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: there's not an exhaustive written record. 735 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 7: Well, he didn't attend university. 736 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: He didn't attend University Calebridge, right. 737 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 3: But he sure knew a whole lot about history. 738 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 2: He wrote, He. 739 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: Wrote a lot about history as if he were correct 740 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: is the best way to say so. 741 00:41:59,320 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 2: At the time. 742 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: Though, this this anti Strap forteen argument, is that based 743 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: on what what the plays have in terms of content, 744 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:14,240 Speaker 1: based on the various historical literary illusions and the extensive vocabulary, 745 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: they say, well, there's not really a way a guy 746 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 1: who didn't go to college could do. 747 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 2: This, I mean, if we're being honest. 748 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 7: Which yeah, that is a very common argument, the idea 749 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 7: that how could someone from essentially the Sticks, right, And 750 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 7: it's the effectively you're saying, some some hick from the 751 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:42,280 Speaker 7: sticks son of a glove maker and an amateur actor 752 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 7: who then turns pro How could that guy end up 753 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 7: creating what many people believe to be the pinnacle of 754 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,720 Speaker 7: poetic language, particularly in play format. 755 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 2: And that's another part. 756 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 7: You know, you know, you're you're thinking not just not 757 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 7: just that these are cracking, good story but these are 758 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 7: characters who seem to embody much deeper representations of human 759 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,720 Speaker 7: nature than what you would see in contemporary works. Now 760 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 7: that's tricky to say, because there are not a lot 761 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 7: of contemporary works that actually survived that era. 762 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 2: Sure, a lot of stuff in general. 763 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 7: There's a couple of Shakespeare plays that may have existed 764 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 7: that we don't have anymore. Loves Labors one is one 765 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 7: of them, and the Cardinio. Both of those are lost 766 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 7: plays we don't know. We've got a an adaptation of 767 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 7: the Cardinio that was done in the nineteenth century, but 768 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 7: that was a heavy rewrite, which was not uncommon. You 769 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 7: often had theaters rewriting Shakespeare to perform it later on, 770 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 7: especially as different values arose in society, where certain things 771 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 7: were considered taboo, they would rewrite Shakespeare's plays to get 772 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 7: rid of anything that would refer to that, And so 773 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 7: Shakespeare's plays went through a lot of transformation, particularly in 774 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 7: the nineteenth century, eighteenth and nineteenth century. 775 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,720 Speaker 1: I love what you're pointing out, though, about the way 776 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,839 Speaker 1: you point out earlier, the way theater was perceived at 777 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: the time. This plays into the views of anti Stratfordi 778 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: and scholars or researchers or enthusiasts. Because at the time 779 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,720 Speaker 1: which Delia Bacon is writing this, and at the time 780 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: in which Shakespeare was performing, popular thought of regarding what 781 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 1: could be considered art and what could be considered a 782 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 1: higher form of art or a lower form of entertainment. 783 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 1: Popular thought drew a sharp distinction between various forms of 784 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 1: the written word. Poetry was a manifestation of high culture. 785 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: The best book was and always will be, the Bible, 786 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 1: and you will die if you don't like the version 787 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:54,399 Speaker 1: we have. 788 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 7: Now, especially once James came along and presented his version. 789 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,800 Speaker 1: I know, which was so Kanye of him. But but theater, 790 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: on the other hand, was seen as like vulgar entertainment. 791 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: The groundlings that that phrase comes from the mosh pit. 792 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, theater. 793 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 7: You would stand in this in this space that was 794 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 7: right in front of the stage, and for a penny 795 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 7: you could stand there and watch the show. And if 796 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,439 Speaker 7: you had sixpence, I think it was, you could sit 797 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 7: in the galleries, so you would be in a seated 798 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 7: position further back with a full view of the stage. 799 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 7: And but you know, it also spoke to the popularity 800 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 7: of the theater, the fact that they could get commoners 801 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 7: who you know, even when you sit there and say 802 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 7: it was one penny for a show, for some people, 803 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 7: that was that was the equivalent of two days pay, right, right, 804 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 7: So they're paying they're paying two days worth of labor 805 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 7: to watch a show. And these shows are changed the play. 806 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 7: They would perform would change every single day because you 807 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 7: don't do one show for a run, because you have 808 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 7: to constantly be filling up that theater. 809 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,560 Speaker 1: Because people would say, why would I spend two days 810 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: worth of pay to see the same thing again? 811 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 7: Right, And there's only two hundred and fifty thousand people 812 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,839 Speaker 7: in London and the theater fits twenty five hundred. So 813 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 7: you start doing the math and you think, if you 814 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,839 Speaker 7: want to stay in business, you gotta change that. That's 815 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 7: why you had so many plays being produced, not all 816 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 7: of them being Shakespeare's. It was absolutely imperative from a 817 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 7: business standpoint. 818 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: So let's get back to that idea of the theater 819 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:44,240 Speaker 1: industry because for anti Stratfordians, that tends to, paradoxically enough, 820 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: be a piece of evidence that they use against the 821 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 1: argument that Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare, because they would say, you 822 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: know what, theater is relatively low brow. So one thing 823 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,959 Speaker 1: we do know about this William Shakespeare fellow was that 824 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: he was a professional actor, and that means that he 825 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: was associated with theater and. 826 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,759 Speaker 7: Other actors, which, by the way, was right next to the. 827 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 1: Brothelm So there's no way someone from their argument is 828 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 1: from a rural part of the world, in a very 829 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,800 Speaker 1: cd profession and one of the sleaziest neighborhoods of London. 830 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 1: There's no way that guy could have written such amazing 831 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,719 Speaker 1: poetry poetic prose, is No. 832 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 3: It was obviously the sixth Earl of Derby. Yes, bestowed 833 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 3: his brilliant work down upon the lowly actors. 834 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,359 Speaker 7: But I could not possibly attach his name to the work. 835 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,879 Speaker 7: It would sully his otherwise spotless reputations. 836 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we are talking about the sixth, not that, 837 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: not that degenerate the seventh. 838 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's true. 839 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 1: They also question, we mentioned this before, how Shakespeare, with 840 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: no record of education or cultured background, how could he 841 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,760 Speaker 1: know all the things that the author of these plays knows. 842 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: The vocabulary is calculated to be somewhere north of seventeen 843 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: five hundred words, and the max would be twenty nine 844 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: thousand different words. There aren't any signed manuscripts written by Shakespeare. 845 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 2: That are around today. 846 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: We don't have anything where, you know, you can't go 847 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:37,800 Speaker 1: to the Smithsonian and see underglass the handwritten draft of Hamlet. 848 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 7: Right, and to be fair, London has gone up and 849 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 7: flames a couple of times since Shakespeare wrote so and 850 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 7: again also to be fair, not a lot of material 851 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,800 Speaker 7: from that era survives. 852 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 2: Period in general. 853 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,040 Speaker 7: Right, So singling out Shakespeare's work is a little is 854 00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,400 Speaker 7: a little disingenuous, only because it's only in Heinz site 855 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 7: that we see how valuable it was. 856 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: Right, right, that's a great point, you know. We see 857 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 1: the classism involved again here with the anti Stratfordi in argument. 858 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: So Shakespeare has six signatures that have been authenticated. People 859 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: who don't believe Shakespeare wrote this stuff, who do believe 860 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 1: he was a rube, They say that, look at these signatures. 861 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: Sure this may have been some guy named William Shagg's 862 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: pear or whatever. But shaggs but he writes like he 863 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 1: can't read. He writes, He writes in a scrawl. This 864 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,800 Speaker 1: means that he was either illiterate or functionally illiterate, someone 865 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: who can just you know, write their name, maybe do 866 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 1: some simple sums. But the spread of conspiracy theories about 867 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,720 Speaker 1: Shakespeare has an international dimension to it, right, Like both 868 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:55,200 Speaker 1: both Bacon and another anti Stratfordi and Heart were Americans, 869 00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: And these different candidates for authorship continue to find their 870 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: supporters in the US. People in the US love this story. 871 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: The History Channel probably loves this story, right, PBS. 872 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,919 Speaker 7: Loves this story. They produce documentaries about this usually every 873 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 7: five to ten years. 874 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not realize that. 875 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,880 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, because I've done quite a bit of research, 876 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,120 Speaker 7: I can tell. Yeah, which, to be fair, first of all, 877 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 7: I studied this in college, but that was more than 878 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,759 Speaker 7: twenty years ago. Not that Shakespeare's written much since then, 879 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 7: but it's been a long time since I was actively 880 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 7: studying it. But now that I'm taking on the role, 881 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,040 Speaker 7: I want to be able to answer people when they 882 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,239 Speaker 7: ask me certain questions about Shakespeare as best I can. 883 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,520 Speaker 7: It is incredibly challenging because Ben, as you have pointed out, 884 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,320 Speaker 7: we know so very little about the man. Very little 885 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 7: information exists about Shakespeare's life. 886 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:51,839 Speaker 5: We piece it. 887 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 7: Together from scant records and various things that were written 888 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,200 Speaker 7: about Shakespeare after he had already died. So it is 889 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,400 Speaker 7: hard to piece it together. But the same is true 890 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 7: for everyone in the Elizabethan era, with the exception of. 891 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,919 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Yeah and maybe some other members of the royal court. Yeah, 892 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 1: but it's true this lack of this lack of knowledge 893 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: allows alternative views or arguments to proliferate. There's nothing wrong 894 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,960 Speaker 1: with that, but we do have to look at the evidence. 895 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,320 Speaker 1: So we have presented the broad strokes of the anti 896 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: Stratfordy and anti Shakespeare Shakespeare argument. What if any problems 897 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 1: exist with these theories, we'll tell you after a word 898 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:43,280 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. 899 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,280 Speaker 3: Guys, hold on a second here, I'm not fully convinced 900 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,600 Speaker 3: what I think. Perhaps William Shakespeare was in fact a 901 00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:03,960 Speaker 3: group of some other people or one other person, just 902 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of that person who Okay, in some 903 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 3: kind of multiverse. Let's let's really talk about the reasons 904 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,680 Speaker 3: why Shakespeare probably was Shakespeare. 905 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:18,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So it's first off, it's fascinating. Of course 906 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 1: we want to be involved in such an intriguing historical 907 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: Who done it? 908 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 3: You know? 909 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,360 Speaker 1: Imagine how such revelation could change history. The problem is 910 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: something isn't true just because it's interesting, and that's a 911 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,960 Speaker 1: fact we all run into at some point in our lives. 912 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 1: The vast majority, by which we mean virtually all serious 913 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,000 Speaker 1: and accepted working Shakespeare scholars think these claims are malarchy. 914 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,840 Speaker 1: They think they're nonsense, and on their side, they have 915 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 1: some pretty convincing arguments. One of the first hinges on 916 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: the timing. You see, if Shakespeare didn't write this stuff 917 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 1: or if you who are somehow a secret gang of people, 918 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,239 Speaker 1: then why didn't anybody talk about it when this guy 919 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:02,840 Speaker 1: was alive? 920 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:03,360 Speaker 5: Yeah? 921 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,480 Speaker 1: Why did no one call him a plagiss Why did 922 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:11,200 Speaker 1: none of his contemporaries who who probably had some friendly rivalries. 923 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,839 Speaker 7: Right, Why sure Johnson definitely did. 924 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, why didn't they? Why didn't they say, let's 925 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,000 Speaker 1: expose this guy? And immediately after his death people who 926 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,439 Speaker 1: knew him while he was alive also didn't say that, 927 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,840 Speaker 1: And no one came forward after he died say oh, okay, 928 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: so it was me. 929 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,640 Speaker 7: Also, the plays stopped after he died. Yeah, no one 930 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,799 Speaker 7: wrote other awesome, amazing plays that are held in the 931 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 7: same esteem as Shakespeare's after he died, even just by 932 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,279 Speaker 7: inventing another name, like you would think, like what, what 933 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 7: would motivate someone to create this stuff in the first place? 934 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,840 Speaker 7: Because keep in mind, again, this wasn't meant for publication, 935 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,720 Speaker 7: It was meant for performance. You did not make money 936 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,440 Speaker 7: selling your play to a theatrical company. Maybe made five pounds, 937 00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 7: which was a significant sum, but you couldn't live off 938 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 7: of it perpetually. And considering the amount of labor it 939 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,359 Speaker 7: takes to write a play versus the amount of money 940 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 7: you would get for selling the play. That that's a 941 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,320 Speaker 7: losing proposition. So you're not doing it to make money directly. 942 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,960 Speaker 7: That's why Shakespeare made his money by being a part 943 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,040 Speaker 7: company owner, not through the selling of his plays. You're 944 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,480 Speaker 7: not making money through publication because nobody until Johnson came 945 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 7: along bothered to publish their plays. 946 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,920 Speaker 1: Another yeah, another point. We mentioned Johnson a couple of 947 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 1: times here. 948 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, who is this character? 949 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,560 Speaker 1: Well, well, to that's a great question that because we 950 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,920 Speaker 1: know he wrote stuff, but we don't know when or 951 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 1: where he was born. It is not especially unusual for 952 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,920 Speaker 1: us to have very very little biographical information for people 953 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,719 Speaker 1: existing at this time, from the bottom to the top 954 00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,320 Speaker 1: of the social sphere, not counting the royal family. Also, 955 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,120 Speaker 1: speaking of Shakespeare's peers, not only did they not say 956 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,640 Speaker 1: he was a plagiarist, not only did they not say 957 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 1: he was a fraud, they at multiple times confirm that 958 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:01,240 Speaker 1: he wrote the stuff. 959 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:01,640 Speaker 5: Yeah. 960 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 1: They were like, oh yeah, Hamling, I know that guy. 961 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,160 Speaker 7: And sometimes they dissed him for it. 962 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And sometimes they were like, oh yeah, I have 963 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:09,560 Speaker 1: much ado about nothing. 964 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 2: That was a stinker. 965 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, you had Robert Green, who said, this upstart crow, 966 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,480 Speaker 7: you know, has beautified himself with our feathers saying, and 967 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,640 Speaker 7: he never specifically says Shakespeare, but he drops every single 968 00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 7: hint that it's got to be Shakespeare. So he's dissing 969 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,719 Speaker 7: on Shakespeare's largely because he's got the same sort of 970 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,600 Speaker 7: elitist view that this this bumpkin is suddenly getting a 971 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,440 Speaker 7: whole lot of attention, and he's like, why are you 972 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 7: paying attention to this guy? 973 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:36,239 Speaker 5: You shoulday attention to me. 974 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,320 Speaker 7: How much more important? Of course, he also was dying 975 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 7: at the time he wrote it. Johnson wrote after Shakespeare's 976 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 7: death that he was not known to blot any lines, 977 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,359 Speaker 7: meaning he wasn't known for marking out a line and 978 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 7: changing it or editing it in some way. And then 979 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,400 Speaker 7: he said would that he blotted a thousand So essentially 980 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,080 Speaker 7: saying he needed a better editor is what Johnson was saying. 981 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,719 Speaker 7: So you had his contemporaries not only giving Shakespeare the 982 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,359 Speaker 7: credit for writing them, but sometimes saying like he wasn't 983 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,560 Speaker 7: that good of a writer. And it wasn't until after 984 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,480 Speaker 7: Shakespeare's death then a couple of his colleagues got together 985 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,680 Speaker 7: and decided they wanted to gather as many of the 986 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 7: plays as they possibly could and publish them as a 987 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 7: memorial to their friend. So these two guys get together 988 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,760 Speaker 7: and they put together was called the First Folio, which 989 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,680 Speaker 7: that's not even all of the plays, but it's most 990 00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 7: of the surviving ones that we know about. And you 991 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 7: also had some plays in publication already, but not through 992 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:47,160 Speaker 7: Shakespeare's permission, called quartos. Some of them were not great. 993 00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,040 Speaker 7: They might have been written down by someone in the 994 00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,400 Speaker 7: audience who was just trying that our best to remember 995 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,600 Speaker 7: the gist of a play. Those are what we call 996 00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,560 Speaker 7: the bad quartos. 997 00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:58,320 Speaker 5: Something. 998 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,400 Speaker 3: So he spilled long all over. 999 00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:08,840 Speaker 7: By, Hey, does that smell like plague to you? 1000 00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:15,799 Speaker 1: So this this kind of stuff, this examination can continue 1001 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: for for quite a while. At this point we at 1002 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,960 Speaker 1: this point we are going to have to close the 1003 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:29,040 Speaker 1: curtain on today's episode. But we we thought, Matt and 1004 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: I that there was no better way to end than 1005 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:38,520 Speaker 1: to point out a quotation from David Thomas of Britain's 1006 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:39,800 Speaker 1: National Archives. 1007 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,880 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm gonna just do a quick quote here for 1008 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:47,520 Speaker 3: you and try to kind of in a way I guess, 1009 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,040 Speaker 3: audition for you right now, Shakespeare, and I'll give you 1010 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:58,600 Speaker 3: notes the documentation for William Shakespeare is exactly what you 1011 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,840 Speaker 3: would expect a person of his position of that time. 1012 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,080 Speaker 3: It seems like an earth only because we are so 1013 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,920 Speaker 3: intensely interested in him. 1014 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,400 Speaker 7: Someday as you exit pursued by the bar, some days 1015 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,840 Speaker 7: the bar exits pursued by you. 1016 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,280 Speaker 1: So that's I mean, that's a great point though, because 1017 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,600 Speaker 1: it's saying this whole time, does Shakespeare seem more mysterious 1018 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,040 Speaker 1: than the average person just because we're looking Yes. 1019 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:32,040 Speaker 7: I think it's largely also because the amount of It's 1020 00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,200 Speaker 7: not so much the amount of work he produced, because 1021 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,920 Speaker 7: there were playwrights who wrote more than he did, But 1022 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 7: it's the quality of the work that was produced. Once 1023 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:44,240 Speaker 7: you get past the early juvenile efforts of Shakespeare, the 1024 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,680 Speaker 7: Titus Andronicus, you know, the comedy of Errors, that kind 1025 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 7: of stuff, and you start getting into when he was 1026 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,920 Speaker 7: really coming into his own, just play after play, he 1027 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 7: was writing things that still resonate with us today and 1028 00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,960 Speaker 7: something that special, I think is what really drives our 1029 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,600 Speaker 7: desire to know more. And it is so unsatisfying to 1030 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:10,880 Speaker 7: come up against just a darth of information about this person. 1031 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 1: And at this point, with the information we have the 1032 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:19,880 Speaker 1: understanding we have in twenty nineteen. It does seem that 1033 00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,280 Speaker 1: the answer to this question is similar to that old 1034 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 1: riddle about who's buried in Grant's tomb? So who really 1035 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,360 Speaker 1: wrote the plays of William Shakespeare? As far as the 1036 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,920 Speaker 1: evidence indicates, it was this guy named William Shakespeare. And 1037 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,000 Speaker 1: he was from a town called Stratford upon Avon. He 1038 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 1: was born there. He went to London, he worked in London, 1039 00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:40,160 Speaker 1: and then he went back home and he died. 1040 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,560 Speaker 3: And he was a filthy actor associator. 1041 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,240 Speaker 1: Yes, he was a known actor sympathizer, unless that is 1042 00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:53,080 Speaker 1: there's still centuries later something they whoever they are, don't 1043 00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,960 Speaker 1: want you to know, and we want to hear from you. 1044 00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,280 Speaker 1: Are you still convinced that there was more to the story? 1045 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Do you believe that there truly was someone behind the 1046 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:09,040 Speaker 1: Shakespeare curtain? If so, why and if so, who is 1047 01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,920 Speaker 1: that person? You can tell us about this on Instagram. 1048 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,600 Speaker 1: You can tell us about this on Facebook. You can 1049 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,000 Speaker 1: tell us about this on Twitter. You can swing by 1050 01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,240 Speaker 1: and talk to your fellow listers on our community page 1051 01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,800 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Or you can call us 1052 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: directly if you are anti Stratfordian and you are super 1053 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: offended by this concept, then go ahead and leave us 1054 01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:31,200 Speaker 1: a voicemail. 1055 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, even make us soliloquy of it. If you want 1056 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,320 Speaker 3: to do whatever you want to do at any point. Yeah, 1057 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,840 Speaker 3: it would be great. Fourteen Yes we are one eight, 1058 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 3: three three std WYTK. That's stuff they don't want you 1059 01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 3: to know in acronym form. It's also numbers you can 1060 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,360 Speaker 3: dial in with your phone. Okay, So if you don't 1061 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,160 Speaker 3: want to do any of that stuff, you you can 1062 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,880 Speaker 3: always send us an email. But before you do that, 1063 01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,440 Speaker 3: consider hitting up old Jonathan Strickland. How do we find you? Jonathan? 1064 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:03,880 Speaker 7: I find you God? 1065 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:04,680 Speaker 5: Or are you? 1066 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,760 Speaker 7: Just go and check out my show Tech Stuff and 1067 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 7: my other show of the Brink, And we do lots 1068 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,480 Speaker 7: of shows about technology and companies someone which tends to 1069 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,640 Speaker 7: cross over into your territory. We did an episode of 1070 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,040 Speaker 7: our Tech Stuff to an episode not long ago about 1071 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 7: some more stuff with the NSSA, which is always such 1072 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,520 Speaker 7: a fun, fun organization to talk about. 1073 01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:28,840 Speaker 3: Oh, we might need to update. 1074 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've also both appeared on your show at some 1075 01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:34,720 Speaker 1: point in the past. If you happen to be in 1076 01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 1: the studio with us and you want to run into Jonathan, 1077 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,720 Speaker 1: you can just hit this button. We discovered that says Strickland. 1078 01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,400 Speaker 1: Don it callback I made. 1079 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:47,760 Speaker 7: It so inconvenient. I was I was just getting the 1080 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,720 Speaker 7: coffee machine's been pouring coffee this whole time. 1081 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:55,440 Speaker 1: What And and our guest super producer Ramsey Ram jams Young, 1082 01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,000 Speaker 1: thank you again for saving the show. My friend, we 1083 01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,680 Speaker 1: have we have pinged upon his time. 1084 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, too long. 1085 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,640 Speaker 3: Now I think he's ready to go. And he dude, 1086 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,040 Speaker 3: he leveled up like four times while we were sitting here. 1087 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,680 Speaker 3: I can see it. I can see it happening. 1088 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:10,800 Speaker 2: Leveled up. 1089 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,280 Speaker 1: Yes, Ping has he attained his final forb We've got 1090 01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:16,720 Speaker 1: to go to the We've got to get out of 1091 01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,640 Speaker 1: the studio to find out. Thank you so much for 1092 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,440 Speaker 1: checking out the show. We do want to hear from you, 1093 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,800 Speaker 1: and we hope that you tune in for our next episodes. 1094 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:30,400 Speaker 1: No spoilers, but things are going to get curiouser and curiouser. 1095 01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 3: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you 1096 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,360 Speaker 3: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can 1097 01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,960 Speaker 3: get into contact with us in a number of different ways. 1098 01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:42,720 Speaker 3: One of the best is to give us a call. 1099 01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,520 Speaker 3: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. If 1100 01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,360 Speaker 3: you don't want to do that, you can send us 1101 01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:50,680 Speaker 3: a good old fashioned email. 1102 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:55,080 Speaker 2: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 1103 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,280 Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production 1104 01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,800 Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 1105 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,040 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 1106 01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:04,880 Speaker 3: your favorite shows.