1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: M beautiful. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military mails and 3 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software Radio. Software Radio on time, on Target. 5 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna host this afternoon. Steve Balustraari. Our special guest 6 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: this afternoon needs no introduction to our software community. We 7 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: all know him, We've all read all of his stuff. 8 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: He actually did some solid Facebook Live stuff years ago 9 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: as part of software But Georgie and is joining us. Uh. 10 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: Georgia just wrote and we have it right here. Brothers 11 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: up the cloth. It's actually backwards on camera. But uh, 12 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: he just wrote this book. We're gonna discuss that. But 13 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: before we do that, George Geo, welcome back to software 14 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: If we've missed you, my friend, Thank you, Steve. I 15 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: really appreciate the invite. Yeah, it's good to see you. 16 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we've all missed you around here. Um, and 17 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: I have to jump right in and ask you a 18 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: quick question. I had Pete Blaber on not too long ago. 19 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: Who you work for in the Special Mission Unit? Um. 20 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: He was telling us about your affinity and ability with 21 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: foreign languages, and is that something you picked up as 22 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: a young something you yeah, as a youngster, like the 23 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: affinity I recognized as a youngster. But I was so 24 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: young that I had no resources at all, nothing to 25 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: help me learn the books and no cassette tapes, no, 26 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: no people to help me. So I didn't start really 27 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: learning until once they got into the military. Then you know, 28 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of it. There's a lot of resources 29 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: available to you in the military. Flammricks and d l 30 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: I materials, that sort of thing. It resolved, you know, 31 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: non costs, so I could just go get it, and 32 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: that's what I did. But I did took I took 33 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: Spanish in high school and that was almost worthless. And 34 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: uh but I okay, I took it and I kept 35 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: I kept on it on my own once this class 36 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: was over. Yeah, same here. I took Spanish in high school. 37 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: I took French in high school and it wasn't it wasn't. 38 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't the best of learning experiences there. And you know, 39 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: it's funny after, you know, being in the military, I 40 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: went to you know, defense language school and for Spanish 41 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: going to seven Truth, and you know, I think I 42 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: learned more in a week and d l I then 43 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: I did, uh through a couple of years of high school. Now, 44 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: now one of one of the languages you speak is Chinese. 45 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: How difficult is that a language? What's well, it's uh, 46 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: it's category four. Yeah, so it's what it's one of 47 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: the hardest. And I think in that same category. I 48 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: believe Arabic lies in that category. But yeah, I mean, 49 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: and it's actually the Chinese that that captured my interest 50 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: as a kid. You know, the first time I saw 51 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: some writing across the screen in Chinese, you know, just 52 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: kind of it was dumbfounded. That's means something, you know, 53 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: And yeah, then I tried making up my own languages. 54 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: It was it was real basic, kind of stupid. I 55 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: just substituted English letters for diagrams that I made up. 56 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: You know, they're just all made up and they're needlessly complicated, 57 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: And basically it had about the same power as a 58 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 1: Captain crunch codrain. You couldn't just sit there and slam 59 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: out notes in this. You just kind of had to 60 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: draw every single one of them. Yeah. It funny, you 61 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: know with Chinese people, how their language and so different. 62 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: When we were in Panama after the war was overdone, 63 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: there a bunch of Chinese immigrants had moved in and 64 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: it was amazing how fast they picked up the Spanish language. 65 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: And uh, they sat there and it was like within 66 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: two or three months they were fluent where they can 67 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: carry on a long conversation in Spanish. And they tried, 68 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: I would say, to teach me and my partner Chinese, 69 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: and uh never did catch you onto it. So hats off. Thanks. 70 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: Just you know, like UM, most languages you can they're 71 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: all audio. You know, you can listen to them and 72 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: that's pretty much all you need. But Chinese for me, 73 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: it's video visual as well, and I did sometimes I 74 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: had to picture, you know what I had to see 75 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: written before I could understand it, or picture it in 76 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: my head before I can understand it. And the Chinese 77 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: uses a different part of the brain than English and 78 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: the Latin languages. So interesting, that's probably why it's so 79 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: damn hard. Yeah, is processed in a different section of 80 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: the brain. Well, let's talk about your career a little bit. 81 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: I know, you know you started off in the conventional 82 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: army Yeah, yeah, and then moved on to SF and 83 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: UM and then the Special Mission Unity. Uh. Inform our 84 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: listeners if in case they are not aware of your background. 85 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: A little bit about that. Yeah, I came into uh 86 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: mechanized Infantry and I didn't didn't enjoy that at all. 87 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: For when my enlistment was up, it was only a 88 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: two year enlistment back then it was an option. I 89 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: took just the two years, the shortest fountain of time 90 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: possible in case I didn't like it, and uh I 91 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: I did like it, okay, but I didn't like the 92 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: my peers. I think there was one other guy besides 93 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: me that actually came in voluntarily because we wanted to 94 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: just the two of us. The rest of the guys 95 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: were running from something, trying to escape something, had judges 96 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: getting them the option to come into the army or 97 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: go to jail. There's a lot of those guys. So 98 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: we've had just a dysfunctional way about it. It's not 99 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: not a good experience at all. But and the only 100 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: way I could think to get out of it and 101 00:07:54,320 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: stay in the Army was to ask for s figured 102 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 1: that stuff. They are not gonna put up with these people, 103 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: and you know, but the only way to get there 104 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: is to go to jump school. And I have a 105 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: clinical fear of heights. So for the longest time, that 106 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: was just not not a possibility because of jump school. 107 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: I can't do that. But after you know, two years, um, 108 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: I was. I was ready to jump to jump school, 109 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 1: do whatever it took to get out. As I said 110 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: before that, I was ready to jump without a parachute. 111 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: That's what it took. Yeah, it's funny. Uh. You know, 112 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: reading your book and you talk about your fear of heights, 113 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm the same way. Um, I will not stand on 114 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: a step ladder to save my life, which amuses my 115 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: wife to no end because she's like, how could somebody 116 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: who jumped out of airplanes for all those years and 117 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: actually did mountain climbing because I was on a mountain 118 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: team and used to go rock climbing and all that stuff, 119 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: will not step on a step ladder. But I still 120 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: to this day have a fair heights. But jumping didn't 121 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: bother me. I actually enjoyed being a jumpmaster, but being 122 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: that close to the ground on the ladder just gives 123 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: the heck out of me. Yeah. There, there's there's an 124 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: ountitude limit to to everybody's fear of height. Seems like 125 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: you look that low heights is what really bothers him, 126 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, White Heights whatever. But I agree with you 127 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: about the jump master park jump Master. Um, I'd rather 128 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: enjoy that a little bit because mainly I was, you know, 129 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: swamped with tasks. You know, I had all the task 130 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: to perform, and that kept me from just sitting in 131 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: my chair worrying about the jump, you know, and it 132 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: did help. But when I was just a regular jumper, 133 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, not a jump master, but just in a 134 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: stick it jumping wasn't any easier because for the jump 135 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: master school, you know, it's still and Hala wasn't any better. 136 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: It is the same thing. Yeah. Well there's a great 137 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: picture in your book of you, Halo. You look pretty 138 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: comfortable out there. That was in school, That was in 139 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: the school at Morana. Yeah. I had a rucksack on 140 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: that jump, and um, but there's just good weather, the 141 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: good good air to fall through. And of course I 142 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: was always trying to put on my best composure for 143 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: the instructor, you know, one who couldn't do the ground 144 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 1: reporting is he said he's not comfortable up there. M Yeah, 145 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, and you know, going back to your early 146 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: SEP dates in the seventh Special Forces Group, as I was, 147 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: but you were there, but you had not so good time. 148 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: And it's not moved over the first let's just a 149 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: little bit about that. Yeah, I did go to so 150 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: to seventh Group and uh, I went to a H 151 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: I guess it was just a unanimously hated company, you know, 152 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: run by a start, really nasty start major uh. And 153 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: I remember reporting into the Italian headquarters before he even 154 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: went to the company, and there was some schmuck standing 155 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: outside on the porch waiting for his name to be called, 156 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: and I was waiting with him and I wouldn't say anything. 157 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: And he asked me where I was going to and 158 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: I told him I was going to be one B 159 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: two one I think it was B to one and 160 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: he goes, oh god, you're going to Billy Lee's plantation. 161 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: That was the that was the nick name for it, 162 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: remember that. Yeah. And everybody was and happy in that company, um, 163 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: including me. But I ended up getting pushed up to 164 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: S three year at the battalion after just like a year, 165 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: so I got to be away from Billy Lee unless 166 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: he came there to battalion headquarters for some reason. Yeah, 167 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: he was pretty he's a pretty mean guy. M hm. 168 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: He was not a happy man. But moving over the 169 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: first group was a good experience for you. Yeah, I 170 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: really was. And I tried hard getting there. I tried 171 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: using you know, my language because Chinese was one of 172 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: the s one of the first group's languages, and um, 173 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: I finally did get it, got transfer over there, and 174 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: uh it was you know, they didn't even have chained 175 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: to command there when I was there. I was e 176 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: five and I was a team sergeant for a scuba team. 177 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: Wasn't qualified or anything. It's just you're you're, you're the 178 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: team started for this team. Um, and I had like 179 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: four or five guys, and uh, when the teams did 180 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: fill up and we got some more senior people, then 181 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: the priority was to get us all through dive school 182 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: and and I went. I had to had to repeat 183 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: it because I failed the first time around. UM, so 184 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: I repeated it was qualified, and there was an excellent team, 185 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: a damn good team to the man, and it was 186 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: a real pleasure to be there. And it's it seems 187 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: it seems fair. And I had to put up with 188 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: those years in the plantation. Then I got to come 189 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: over to an elite dive team with some real great players. 190 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: We had. Uh, we were in great shape and not 191 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: bad at diving either. Yeah, and then you you spent 192 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: some time at the dive school down and Key West 193 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: and uh, that's a one of the tougher schools in 194 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: the Army schools. And how did you work it down there? 195 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: I asked for that trip, worked real hard to get 196 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: that bill it there and Key West finally got it. Um, 197 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: and it was it was great duty. I mean outside 198 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: of the s m u um, it was fantastic duty. 199 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: We just were just so happy that when I was 200 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: getting there, they were um slicing up the curriculum and 201 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: to the amount of course is that they were going 202 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: to do, and especially with you know, the first group 203 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: opening up, they needed to put in an extra classes. 204 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: So we were really just like meeting ourselves coming to go, 205 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: working hard all the time. And when I was there 206 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: as a student, I noticed that it was pretty cushy 207 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of older guys and there was 208 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: not a there's like one person leading pe pe pt 209 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: in the morning, the only guy that could. And by 210 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: the time I got it, and there was a lot 211 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: of time off, you know, there's insanely large amount of 212 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: time off for those guys. Then when I got there, 213 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: that was over so I didn't mind it. I didn't 214 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: mind working and that's what we did was their best 215 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: in day out. Chuck Studley was one of the one 216 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: of the fellow instructors over there. Chuck, I know that 217 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: he's always put fatures of pictures of the the you know, 218 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: the Key West, the guys from back in, the guys 219 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: from back in. Yeah, he was, he was. It was 220 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: a real charge having Chuck work and worked there. But 221 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: I could tell Dave one that he was a really 222 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: good guy. He the first day got there, we had 223 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: a cadre jump jumped from a c King helicopter and 224 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: he fit right in. You know, afterwards washing the parachutes. 225 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: Guys were busting his chops you know already and they 226 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: don't really do that unless they like you. So Chuck 227 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: Wick was great have him there, man, he was. He 228 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: was good for my morale being there. Oh and we yeah, 229 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: we we pulled a lot of gags on each other. 230 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: Had had a good time. He's he was. He was 231 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: good at the PT. He could get in there and 232 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: uh he could lead that um and he was real 233 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: good on the platform, excellent on the platform. I really 234 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: appreciated having him there and uh, you know it was 235 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: during this time of day that you decided to try 236 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: it out for the Special Mission US unit. And uh, 237 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: how you talk about this in your book and we'll 238 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: get more into it whence we start talking about the book. 239 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: But how difficult, uh, you know, like the preparation. I 240 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: know you said the first time that you're prepared for 241 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: you actually strained. And that's a finding a lot of 242 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: a lot of whether they were preparing for s for 243 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: sf UM. What was that like doing it down in 244 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: Florida where you're dealing with all the time. It was, 245 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: of course it was tough. You know. I pushed myself 246 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: really hard because I just didn't know what to expect 247 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: um and the the unit pushed out of training curriculum 248 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to all the new and it's you know that they 249 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: have on file, and it's just they call it as 250 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: a recommendation for how to train up for the unit. 251 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: And I couldn't keep up with it. You know, I 252 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: tried doing it for two days. I couldn't do it, 253 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: and I just couldn't move fast enough or carry enough weight. 254 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: And so finally I just tried not to fret the 255 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: curriculum paper, got rid of it and just didn't did 256 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: on my own. You know what I thought I should do. 257 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: The drupped every day, did bike right every day, did 258 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: a lot of of calisthenics, and got some time in 259 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: the gym at night. Um, I don't remember. I don't 260 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: remember ever taking a break, and uh, I ended up, 261 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, getting blistered feet and some injuries, and that 262 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: that was my condition. When I was about to go 263 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: catch my flight, he said, you know, I had my 264 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: Duffel bags up on my shoulder walking out to the 265 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: car limping. I just stopped and said, what are you doing. 266 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: You know you can't you can't show up to Key 267 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: West or chill up to SMU selection and assessment with injuries. 268 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: They're not They're not going to get better because there's 269 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: no time off and they're only gonna get worse. So 270 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: I dumped my bags back in my house and made 271 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: a phone call and they were they were pretty, uh, 272 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: they were chill about it, and they were encouraging for 273 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: the next time, you know, yeah, yeah, you gotta just 274 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 1: get yourself right and get out here the next time around. 275 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: And well, they fixed me a date and I started 276 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: it all over, did the training. It was got a 277 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: little smarter about it and I was able to show 278 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: up to the airport with no injuries the second time around, 279 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: and um, the course itself, it was just it was 280 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: a matter of I've realized that in the end, it's like, 281 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: why did I make it if I wasn't the fastest guy? 282 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: And I decided it was consistency, Like if you know, 283 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: and there's a time standard there. It's like no one 284 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: knows what it is, but there's a there's a slowest 285 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: amount of time that if you can't hit that mark, 286 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: then you're definitely out of there. But then above that, 287 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: there's this window in there. If you can keep that 288 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: steadily day after day that those times, then I think 289 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: that is that matters. And who they select. I think 290 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: they want to select the the guys that are consistent. 291 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: And and then I consistently got lost at least once 292 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: every day. The first leg out, I got lost and 293 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: it took me about three hours to get right again. 294 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: But after that everything was pretty smooth. It's just a 295 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: matter of, you know, putting the rain behind me, and 296 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: I ended up making it through first time around. That's 297 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: and that was good. That's a lot of walking in 298 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: the mountains up there. Yeah, that's sure, is sure is 299 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: how many map sheets did you have? H I had, 300 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. How many were there? It 301 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: was between five and seven map sheets? Uh? And and 302 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: we well we used we used our map sheets more 303 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: than just once, you know, and even on the long walk, 304 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: we you know, had to do some detours up in 305 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: the mountains that forced us to pull out a previous 306 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: map sheets, you know, to reacquire our bearings. But I 307 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: remember putting all together, all the distances together, and they 308 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: equaled this the size of West Virginia, you know, from 309 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: from north to south. That's amazing. And then after you 310 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: you made go ahead. I was wanting to say that 311 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: several several people in the support role in the unit 312 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: wanted to try out, and they did, and particularly more 313 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: officers than enlisted guys. And when we're one of the 314 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: officers at a checkpoint, he could refer to the maps 315 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: as something that only the cadrey referred to him as 316 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, like they we tell him pull out map 317 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: sheet seven. But in the cadrey that's probably like I 318 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: six and he and he used that term. And the 319 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: cadre were sitting uproar with the same man, the guy 320 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: he spilled the beans on himself that he was familiar 321 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: with the map sheets. You know, they wanted to get 322 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: rid of him, throw him out. No not my My 323 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: outlook on it was you know, you you can. You 324 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: could have given me the map sheets before I showed up. 325 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: Just given them to me, and I can just open 326 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: him up and go what what's what? You know? What 327 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: is this? Where's where would I be starting? Where would 328 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: I be going? First? Second, third? You know, it's just 329 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: just doesn't doesn't matter. What matters is you have to 330 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: you have to put the terrain behind you. That's what matters. 331 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: And you know, no familiarity, no prior familiarity with the 332 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: map sheets is gonna help you do that, because man, 333 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: you can't remember the whole map sheet. I suppose you can, wow, wow. 334 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: So but just somewhere in all those squiggly lines is 335 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: a track as a trek I have to make. I 336 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: don't even know if it's a north south or east west. 337 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: He had. He ended up Phelan himself, and and we 338 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: we found out that or the psych would talk to 339 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: him and he told us about him a little bit. 340 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: He said, yeah, he uh, he processes a map sheet 341 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: a little a little different than the guys that make 342 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: it process. And like he asked me, so what do 343 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: you what do you see when you look at the 344 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: map sheet? And I say, I don't. I see a picture, 345 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: and I see a picture ground, I see high places 346 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: and low places and and everything between. I see. I 347 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: could see water rivers. You know, it's like flying over 348 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: a piece of training an aeroplane. And and when you 349 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: ask this guy that that failed what he saw when 350 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: he opened a map sheet, he saw a math problem, 351 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: saw numbers. He didn't see the picture. He saw numbers. 352 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: So every movement made was like a mathematical equation. So 353 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: you could bet he was out there, you know with 354 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: what do they call it, that ranger tether with the 355 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: beads on it to pace count. Yeah, he probably had 356 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: one of those, and he uh, he dead reckoned his 357 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: way through as far as he could. But it's just 358 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: you know, you can do some dead recording. It's it's possible. 359 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: I might have done a little bit, but probably not. 360 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: I was out there with a compass but no protector. 361 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not dead reckoning done. Just it was 362 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: all terrain association. Just look at the picture compared to 363 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: the terrain. There's the same one. There's there's the same 364 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: pictures and start making my way through it. Yeah. In 365 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: your book you talk about um, you know, going through 366 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: the selection process, and I remember seeing a picture of 367 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: years ago of the boots that you took through there. 368 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: They took him, Yeah they did, they did. I still 369 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: got him, you still have Oh yeah, absolutely do. Um. 370 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: But before I started my training back at Key West, 371 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: I drove north to Homestead Air Force Base because they 372 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: have a clothing sales there, and I bought two pairs 373 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: of the most basic leather boots, you know, no frills, 374 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: no zipper, noose, fancy dread to him and I bought 375 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: two pairs of him marked him A and B, and 376 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: I just walked traded those boots out every day, you know, 377 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: I used to be yesterday, I use a today and 378 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: it uh. I think if I think, if I only 379 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: had one pair of boots when I showed up there, 380 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: they would have couldn't have handled the beating. Uh So 381 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: it was good to have the spare. And even in 382 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: selection I used. I swept my spared with my primary 383 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: set of boots every every day, swept them out and 384 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: they both look about the same. But that one pair 385 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: is the one that I've marched the forty mile in 386 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: so it's got a little more beating than the other. 387 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: And I got rid of the other pair just did um. Yeah, 388 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: but those are definitely my boots. That's awesome. So so 389 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, you you you traveled all over the world 390 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: with a special mission unit. I mean you may you 391 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: meet and you write about a ton of just intriguing 392 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: characters in the unit. And is there is there anyone 393 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: I know that stands out either good amongst all the 394 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: places and all the places and travel. Uh Mura, probably Baraco. 395 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: It was because I did it alone on with through 396 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: six six cities in Morocco with like no money, you know, 397 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: just like five dollars a day. And uh yeah, that 398 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: is I mean, I mean they gave me enough deer 399 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: ham that's the currency there to to um to get 400 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: me like a say, a five dollar room for rent 401 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: at night. And then he had a few dollars after 402 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: that to get something to eat or drink because it 403 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: was hard to get good water there. And I just 404 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: traveled from city to city using different medium like I 405 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: used a bus get to one place to use trains 406 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: um more often and h at one point I lost uh, 407 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: I lost the opportunity to catch a train and I 408 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: ended up taking a camel with with some people friends 409 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: of a guy from in a bar that I met, 410 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: and we marched up there with camels. It's kind of fun, 411 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: it was. I just I spent some time in Morocco. 412 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: That's right. You did some film in there and have 413 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: some Yeah, I did. I was a security guy for 414 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: a film there, and uh, it's it's an intriguing place. 415 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I was up in robot for most of 416 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: the time, but we had an all air base that 417 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: used to be American Air Base at Canegra and then 418 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: we went south down into uh Marrakesh just to check 419 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: it all out. And of course we had to go 420 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: I mean I had to go to costa Blanket at 421 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: Old Movie Man and go to Rix, you know Rix place. 422 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: Moroccos are in. Fest was the I think the fifth 423 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: city that I was that I was. Yeah, it was 424 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: pretty cool, pretty intriguing, but you know, not having anything 425 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: and very little money made kind of rut. It routed 426 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of the mystique. But I think I 427 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: saw the go ahead. I was gonna say, Marocco is 428 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: I saw some of the most pathetic people, poor and uh, well, 429 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: crippled and that sort of thing that I had never 430 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: seen before other than movies. I actually saw a guy 431 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: that had no legs and he pushed himself in a 432 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: little wooden cart with the four wheels and two weights 433 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: in his hands. And that's how he that's how he 434 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: propelled himself. I said, Wow, I've never seen it that 435 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: bad before. Yeah, it's uh, it's really different in the 436 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: Arab world. But there's a lot of Western influence there, 437 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: unlike a lot of the Middle East least very different 438 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: different believe it did. But let's talk about the book. Um. 439 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: I know I've I've read a couple of these stories 440 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: because they were published in software. But um, did you 441 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: ever aspire to be a writer? Na? Never did. It 442 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: was just something that came about, I mean, through stuff 443 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: you had to right for special mission unit or no. 444 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: I yeah, I wrote, Oh gosh, I we we sure 445 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: remember this, don't Actually I wrote that story about Matthew Ryerson. 446 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: M m mhm okay, I remember now. It was I 447 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: was living here with my daughter and I didn't have 448 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't really working at the time, and this opportunity 449 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: came up, you know, to work human traffic. But another 450 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: opportunity came up. Just there's this website software and he says, 451 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: once you write a story for software, they might pay 452 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: you for it. I said, well, okay, so I wrote 453 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: that and Jack took me right away, and uh, we 454 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: you know, came up to the deal. I wrote would 455 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: write five stories a month, and then that went up 456 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: to ten. They don't went up to seventeen. That I 457 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: got laid off and Star Wars picked me back up, 458 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: and um then I ended up. I left on my own. 459 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: I just I just walked out, no letter, nothing and 460 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: just said good luck boys, I'm out here. And uh, 461 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: I was able to get worked with Alex at the Sandbox. 462 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: I just that I didn't know I could write, Just 463 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: that I didn't know, and I was well. I was 464 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: actually even told by someone that that I don't like 465 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: that I had didn't write well. That I think, I 466 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: you think you can write well, but you you can't 467 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: not really when you're alright, you use this voice that's 468 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: odd and it just kind of scares people away. So 469 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: that's that's how I figured I wasn't writing. But until 470 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: I was know. It's funny you say that. I remember 471 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: band in college and taking courses and my Anglish professor 472 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: English told me never told me right for a living, 473 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:11,919 Speaker 1: because you're terrible. Why would Yeah? And I never took 474 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: it to hard. I was just wondering and a where 475 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: he is today? Because today I've been for over a 476 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: dozen years now, and it doesn't I can still enjoy it. 477 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: I write my jump style and maybe it isn't the 478 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: most drammatically correct, but um, people seem to enjoy some 479 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: of the stuff I write. So I don't worry about 480 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: the critics. About the critics, yeah, I don't do that. 481 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: Don't worry about the critics that your stuff, especially the 482 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: the war history stuff. For some of the best papers, 483 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: the views that I run, I think, I I gotta 484 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: try to learn the mechanics of the Battle of Midway, 485 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: and you know, I've watched different documents. I could never 486 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: get it straight. Like I could not if somebody joked 487 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: and said to him, tell me about the Battle of Midway, 488 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: you know eat z, I couldn't do it. Is it 489 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: just wouldn't sink in. But I wrote the paper you wrote, 490 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: and I finally I was able to fully understand it. 491 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: Like I didn't know it was lasted more than a day. 492 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: I thought that it was a course of several days. 493 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 1: But all that happened, it's just like bam, bam, bam. 494 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: No one got a nap that day. No, it's it's amazing. 495 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: I mean, uh, you know, and thank you for that. 496 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But you know, when you go back 497 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: to that story, and I mean, so many things had 498 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: to break right from the American Navy on that day. 499 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: Every one of them did, and you know they were 500 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: quite fortunate. But the bravery of the guys involved, I 501 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: just saw a specialized before there was a longer pilot. 502 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: Lisia's actually actually bombed more than one more character and 503 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: then on his way down he got jumped by zerost To. 504 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: Is just unbelievable, you know, flying a dive bomb, you know, 505 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: so she's probably flying do SPD dive bomber. Yeah, yeah, there, Yeah, 506 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: I guess they have a chance to gets zero some 507 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: of them. Some of the others do not not really 508 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: mm hmmm. That's that's in terms of your book. I mean, 509 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: some of the people in there, the characters you talk about, 510 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: the characters saw you made, your college made you. Uh 511 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: he seems like the character the character that starts with me, 512 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: Drew Colin Rich. Oh, Yeah. Yeah, I'm still a toucher 513 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: than today, still in touch. He was, Yeah, he was 514 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 1: a health character in uh in the unit. He sure 515 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: was the East from these fast from New England. Yeah. 516 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: I liked how you wrote in the book with the 517 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: Boston action Boston. Yeah. I don't never know how that 518 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: turns out to the reader. You know, it's like, what 519 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: do this me? It sounds like this, Let's see if 520 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: the reader gets it so well somebody from there. When 521 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: I was reading that, I was cracking up laughing because 522 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: it sounds like all of us from there, how we 523 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: all talking? Yeah, Yeah, that's a that's definitely a compliment. 524 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: He's he got the guy I wanted to. I'm sorry, 525 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead. And he got out 526 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 1: and it still lives I think in uh uh Southern Pines, 527 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: and him and his wife opened up a pizzeria Boston 528 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: style pizza. That's that's what. And has a new grand baby. 529 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: That's what they're doing these days. So he's still he's 530 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: still horribly afflicted with you know, his wound. They'll lever heel, 531 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: but he's he's doing okay, he's Yeah. But I wanted 532 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: to ask you about Conan and explained to our readers 533 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: about him. He's a guy that actually he's got you 534 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: into special mission unity. Yeah, he is, he is. He's 535 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: one of the guy there's like two that the light 536 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: really came on when they finished their speel. But it 537 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: was really it was James Conan Centers that that made 538 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: the difference. And he he showed up at our one 539 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: of our courses in Key West when I was an instructor, 540 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: and uh, you didn't talk to me the whole through 541 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: the whole thing. You maintain the instructor of student relationship. 542 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: But at the end we have a gathering where we, 543 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, have a couple of beers and cook something 544 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: and mingle with you know, the graduates. And he pulled 545 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: me aside, well all the way around the other side 546 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: of the buildings, come here, George, and and then he 547 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: you know, he practically ordered me to go try out. 548 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: So you need to, you just you need to, yo, 549 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: I said, I can't, I can't need to keep up 550 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: the there are training curriculums. Is don't worry about the 551 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: training curriculum, don't worry about anything. Just get get over there. 552 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: It'll all work out. And he was right, and I 553 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: take it. Just from the way you described me, he 554 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: must have been a really big man. He was big. 555 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: He's he's a pretty good size. He was buff, you know, 556 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: and had a kind of a mean face. And he 557 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: just didn't mess with with the James Sutter didn't mess 558 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: with him. And uh, he was just too much for 559 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: most people, you know. They said they just couldn't they 560 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: couldn't keep up with the motivation the guy had. And 561 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: I think it was a good idea when he went 562 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: to the unit because with all his motivation and all 563 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: his ideas, he had resources to entertain all that he like, 564 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: he thinks he can come up with a different whatever 565 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: web gear and uh, he asked me to come up 566 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: with some web gear that floated because the seals had it. 567 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: And I did that, but I was only but I 568 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: was only when they had it. Nobody else wanted it. Um. 569 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was a really good thing for for 570 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: him to get to the unit. And then when he 571 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: left left there retired. Um, he went to work for 572 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: a contract for the d Oe in Las Vegas, and 573 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: he called me up, started calling me up and hounded me, 574 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: says George, I know I found out you're up for retirement. 575 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: I need you to come here and work here on 576 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: my project. And I pushed it back a lot, but 577 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: finally I just he said the right thing. And uh. 578 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: And I was going to school for Io T at 579 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: the time, and I I just dumped all that and 580 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: went to work for him. He was still the same 581 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: guy there in that contract and all have a bunch 582 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: of civilians working for him, and that that wasn't going 583 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: over too well. They were constantly pounded HR. You know 584 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: that this guy is being mean to be and and 585 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: I get that. Yeah, and he and and he would 586 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,720 Speaker 1: he would get a complaint about me from HR. Just George, 587 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: did you tell some guy that you're going to rip 588 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: his head off and shipped down his neck? I'm like, oh, 589 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: I think I may have done that. And H trying 590 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: to complain, He said, you got it. You gotta eats back, 591 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: You gotta this, You gotta that. You know, you're not 592 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,399 Speaker 1: on the little birds anymore on the short final And 593 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: I thought of all the people to tell me, you know, 594 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: to ease back, because you got James. But you know, 595 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,399 Speaker 1: in spite of all that, he had people knocking down 596 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: his door trying to get on his project because he 597 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: had money, because he was he was making money on 598 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: his project, and he ended up with like over a 599 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:34,919 Speaker 1: hundred employees. They're working for him on his project, and 600 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: some of us were able to break away from his 601 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: It was his was a training course for first responders, 602 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, on red new radiation, solving radiation problems, biological problems, 603 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: in chemical scenarios, and I just you know, I didn't 604 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: really much like fireman so much and policeman and all that, 605 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,919 Speaker 1: because they're they were complainers, you know, they complained about 606 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: everything we made him do UM and it was hot 607 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,959 Speaker 1: and it was the desert, so that that was fed 608 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: into it. But I was able to pull away and 609 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: do some some special mission unit type stuff. I was. 610 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: I ended up was handling all the steels that came 611 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: through to to do their shake out before they went 612 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan. And even even the Big D came through 613 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,959 Speaker 1: there and did a deep underground UM rescue of a 614 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: scut scud bravo and it was a full scud bravo 615 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: that ran and then they had it tucked way back 616 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: in this tunnel. It was actually a drift because it's 617 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: like a letter. The drift is shaped like a letter. 618 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: You it's got an entrance way goes in bend who 619 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: bends back as an exit a different exit. The tunnel 620 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: just goes in and then it comes out, you know, 621 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: just one way and one way out. So they had 622 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: a hidden back in the bend of this drift, and 623 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: we imported some hu hangus heavy armored doors to block 624 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: these portals stuff from. I don't know from where I 625 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: when some of the one of them came from an 626 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: A T and T facility that was a deep underground 627 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 1: it was mini feet thick and wait X number of 628 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: times and the guys came in an assaulted that there 629 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: are breachers cut those doors. They cut in through those 630 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: doors and opened the doors and I was able to 631 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: drive that scut out. That's some some cool stuff. And 632 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: that was that was in what Utah Desert or Noawa Desert, 633 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:53,280 Speaker 1: and they air the era um lifted and air dropped 634 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: all all their vehicles in the desert out there, you 635 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: know from one thirties and such. So they did a 636 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: did a full mission profile, you know, the real air 637 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: drop personnel drop long distance movement overground in in their 638 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: vehicles and then hit the objective there and they were 639 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: little birds flying up all through those mountains, hitting targets, 640 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: and uh, it was amazing. You know, I wanted to 641 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: ask you something. I know we were talking about military 642 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: history earlier, and I know that while you were in 643 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: the unit, you guys went to Poland, and I know 644 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: that from the book you have pictures we visited Auschwitz. 645 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: What was that like? I mean, even sixty fifty sixty 646 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: years after the fact, what was it like visiting that place? It? Uh, 647 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 1: it was a real somber place and a sobering experience. 648 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: Um and I think I found myself and I wondered 649 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: if others didn't didn't also to do this, Just wonder 650 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: picture myself being there, you know, being one of the 651 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: victims in in in different buildings you know, of of 652 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: the camp Auschwitz and then its sister camp much much larger, 653 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 1: Birken how across town. But you know, you see it 654 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 1: all the movies. Did you see the real thing? And 655 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: trying to just try to imagine what it was like for, 656 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, five people to be trammed in this one 657 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: bed and in freezing cold and expect him to sleep, 658 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: and the hardships are just untold. It's it's hard to 659 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: really explain it all, but it was. It was a 660 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: great tour. I was glad I was able to do it. 661 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: And it was a dumb luck that I that I 662 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: stumbled across a couple of cars that were organizing themselves 663 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: to drive out there on on a free day that 664 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,920 Speaker 1: they gave us. And I just jumped right into car 665 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: and say say I'm going. I'll go with you. And 666 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: Sam Foster came along as well is he him being 667 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: also being a history buff, and uh, it was. It was. 668 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: It was amazing anybody that can get there. It's not 669 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: gonna change, you know, there's um and it's it's funny 670 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: because broken out takes up a lot of land. It's 671 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: it's big. I don't know how many acres, but there 672 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: if ever there was a land shortage, I don't know 673 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: if they'd ever consider like, Okay, we'll put up a monument, 674 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,399 Speaker 1: but we're gonna take back the rest of this land. 675 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: We just need it. And I doubt they would ever 676 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:55,399 Speaker 1: do that. You know, it just it remains untouched. Yeah, 677 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,440 Speaker 1: I know that. You know, my dad was in armor 678 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,240 Speaker 1: and more were two and he liberated one of those camps, 679 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 1: not as big as as Auschwitz and Birkenhouse, but the 680 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: pictures he took were pretty um horrifying, I guess the 681 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 1: only way to put it. And you know, I know 682 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: that that was one of the things that haunted him. 683 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: He never talked about before back and even after I 684 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,320 Speaker 1: became SF and kem you know, we just talked about 685 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 1: some of the funny stuff. But one night he opened 686 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: up about liberating one of those camps and how it 687 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,399 Speaker 1: just I mean, guys who had fought all the way 688 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: across Europe, how it just horrified them to no end, 689 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: to like it literally shocked these guys. I don't doubt it. Um, 690 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: these these photos that your dad took, is that just 691 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: his own personal photos or did he ever have him published? No, 692 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,919 Speaker 1: because at the time he said that the order came 693 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 1: down to you know, Mr Demander had called in and 694 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: then mis place and they said, yeah, these places everywhere, 695 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,719 Speaker 1: and said every man within camera can't win too the 696 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: camp and take me into many and take roles as 697 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: you have because we had to document this because eventually 698 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,240 Speaker 1: it's a lot smarter than everyone else and eventually somebody's 699 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: gonna say that this ship never happens, and we're going 700 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,239 Speaker 1: to make sure that they will remember. People remember that. 701 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: How about that? And later on I worked with as 702 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: a contract of with the joke, and the Iraqis insisted 703 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,239 Speaker 1: that that never happened. The Holocaust didn't happen. It was 704 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: a myth. Really, Yeah, they think they used to argue 705 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 1: with me for no end that they were like it 706 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: was all made up, but did didn't happened. And that 707 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 1: was like my father had nightmares until he passed away 708 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:10,280 Speaker 1: about that. I'm sure it did. Yeah, that's that's funny. 709 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what their interest is there 710 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,439 Speaker 1: and saying that it didn't happen, you know, Uh, well 711 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 1: when they were there for one thing. Yeah, but I 712 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 1: gotta ask you about one of your brother brothers in 713 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,840 Speaker 1: the Strength unit in the it's a guy. I watched 714 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: his video. I'm just intrigued. But I would love to 715 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: meet him something active, met him something and you Phillis 716 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:43,920 Speaker 1: in a little bit bad. Bill Pat and I've been 717 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: friends for over thirty five years. Uh. He's one of 718 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,959 Speaker 1: the first people I befriended when I came into SF 719 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 1: and I came to set the group or I'm sorry, 720 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: first group, excuse me, first group, and I was in 721 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,359 Speaker 1: Washington State and uh he was. He was part of 722 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: that gaggle of people that showed up there and there 723 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,200 Speaker 1: was no structure, you know, who really didn't have it 724 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,800 Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't it was not deployable because it wasn't full. 725 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,880 Speaker 1: We didn't have all the billets full of all the people. 726 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: I was a team sergeant at as the five and 727 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: UM I had like four guys on my team, and 728 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,080 Speaker 1: we were a Scooba team, but no one was scuba qualified. 729 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,040 Speaker 1: We had to do that later once we got to organize. 730 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,280 Speaker 1: But Mac was just you know, larger than life, jolly 731 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 1: guy as long as you weren't pissing him off. And 732 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: he drove these He drove this Cadillac, this big old Cadillac, 733 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, with the roofdown and you drive a steer 734 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: with his left arm and have his right arm over 735 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,759 Speaker 1: the seats and speed. He would speed along the road 736 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,120 Speaker 1: that connected the Fort Lewis with North Fort Lewis, the 737 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: the free way cut those two and a half so 738 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 1: you'd have to drive across the freeway and then this 739 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 1: long stretch to get to the rest of the ford, 740 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,879 Speaker 1: and maculd just speed down the thing and he'd see 741 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,319 Speaker 1: us rucking or something, and then he always always holler out, 742 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, he's he's he's the same way 743 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: today as he was back then, the same way. It talks, 744 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,799 Speaker 1: the same way, he's got the same opinions, works out 745 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: the same way. Um, he's the real he's the real 746 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: deal man. He's he's living Life's basically basically dude stuff. Yeah, 747 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,680 Speaker 1: I wrote that bump, you know. He he uh, he 748 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,879 Speaker 1: puts a caveat in there sometimes says, hey, I feel 749 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,800 Speaker 1: free to write down ideas and send him in. And 750 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,399 Speaker 1: I wrote, filled the whole page full of stuff, said 751 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,760 Speaker 1: here's some basic dude stuff for you, and he didn't 752 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,880 Speaker 1: use a single one of them, which is because it 753 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,839 Speaker 1: means he's got enough enough material. He's almost at one 754 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: hundred two. Basic dude stuff is almost sid at the 755 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: tape one hundred, So there's there's gonna I'm sure the 756 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,839 Speaker 1: last few are gonna be some roppers, probably some really 757 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 1: good ones. But he's he's, he's living life and he's 758 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:38,480 Speaker 1: a doing real well. He's totally successful firearms instructor. It's 759 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,800 Speaker 1: got a lot of demand. Um yeah, I'm really happy 760 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,920 Speaker 1: for him. We stay in touch, you know, that's great. 761 00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,520 Speaker 1: I would love to meet him one day because you know, 762 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,399 Speaker 1: you see a lot of different special ops guys all 763 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: over the place. And you know when whenever I watched 764 00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,480 Speaker 1: one of his videos you see an interview with him, 765 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,839 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's a guy I would love to sit 766 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:09,239 Speaker 1: down the average Yeah, he'll he'll have a I t A. 767 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah, that's difficult. Was it? Put in all 768 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,320 Speaker 1: the stories together for the books together for the book 769 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,040 Speaker 1: I had? Uh? I put? I started putting, just getting 770 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,200 Speaker 1: all the stories that I had and that I that 771 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,239 Speaker 1: I could remember. Remember, you got a big folder. When 772 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,080 Speaker 1: I sit there and they're all there, they're supposed to 773 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: be there. Um. Oh, just to just to a backstep 774 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: real quick. I went to selection with mac as well, 775 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,799 Speaker 1: really yeah, I was really got the bond. So I've 776 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,400 Speaker 1: got all the stories and uh and I started, you know, 777 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,200 Speaker 1: picking which ones are gonna make the cut. And I 778 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,239 Speaker 1: wasn't sure what the number one was, Like how many 779 00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,840 Speaker 1: chapters if I could have in this book? They're all there, 780 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:04,920 Speaker 1: gonna be fife of words each, just about um, and 781 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: I ended up with ended up with the twenty. He 782 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,080 Speaker 1: decided this will be them the twenty and I said, well, 783 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,200 Speaker 1: I need to uh, I need to add to it. 784 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,800 Speaker 1: So I wanted to put I wanted to put two 785 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,360 Speaker 1: chapters in the beginning and add two more chapters to 786 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,880 Speaker 1: close it out, because it really hadn't it had no 787 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,800 Speaker 1: beginning or end. Uh And but but at about that time, 788 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 1: I was working with Greg Coker and he asked me 789 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:38,240 Speaker 1: to He asked me to ghostwrite his book for him, 790 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 1: And it was my fault for getting him going on 791 00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,440 Speaker 1: a book, so I felt obligated to to go stright 792 00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: for him. And I wanted to do this as quick 793 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,880 Speaker 1: as I could because his story is is amazing, I 794 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,920 Speaker 1: think it. I wanted it to get out there first. 795 00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: So I just I pushed my own book aside, see like, y'all, 796 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,080 Speaker 1: I'll get to that. And I just worked on Gregg's book, 797 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, send up sundown. It just worked on and 798 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 1: he was doing his part. He was definitely shocking up 799 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,399 Speaker 1: chapters and sending me like a couple of the day, 800 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: sometimes maybe more. And I felt like I would be 801 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,839 Speaker 1: the hold up of his book if I didn't work 802 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,600 Speaker 1: as hard as he did, so I really pushed myself, 803 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:33,080 Speaker 1: um and and we got it done. And uh then 804 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,480 Speaker 1: I when his was done, then I went ahead and 805 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,400 Speaker 1: picked back up online and and wrote those four chapters 806 00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,600 Speaker 1: and just like two and a half days less than 807 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,479 Speaker 1: that maybe, and I had a product and was able 808 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:51,120 Speaker 1: to progress it the product based on Greg because he 809 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,880 Speaker 1: was one step ahead of me all the time, you know, 810 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 1: and that really Helpsy find a way through to a 811 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,279 Speaker 1: publisher and prinator and all that sort of thing. So 812 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,640 Speaker 1: he's like my test bit. But but he went he 813 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,799 Speaker 1: was on the ball more than I was. Like he 814 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: had he had his paperbacks done. I had him out 815 00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 1: there months ago and I don't have mine out yet. 816 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,640 Speaker 1: I have them there in my bass through in my 817 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 1: garage in Crates. But we're working a contract with Amazon 818 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:28,600 Speaker 1: two um to mail those, to mail those to them 819 00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 1: and have them moved the book from their story. That's awesome. Yeah, 820 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: and again to our listeners out there, brothers of the cloth, 821 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,560 Speaker 1: but George hand this is uh, this is if you've 822 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:52,440 Speaker 1: read George's working on soft repo, then we are the 823 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: mighty and we missed this insider and probably it happened 824 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,800 Speaker 1: as another You'll love the book. I love the book 825 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,000 Speaker 1: a firm. I was a I was a fan and 826 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: I literally asked you for an autograph copy, which you 827 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,760 Speaker 1: and it was a great book. I'm actually reading it 828 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,960 Speaker 1: again because when we were talking about you know, when 829 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,400 Speaker 1: we get on the podcast, you know, I said, I 830 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,360 Speaker 1: gotta read the book all over again. I got to 831 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,960 Speaker 1: read the book. It was fantastic. But uh, we definitely 832 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:29,520 Speaker 1: recommended all of our soft reflations and reading check out 833 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,720 Speaker 1: Georgia's book. Is there anything else you'd like to share 834 00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,360 Speaker 1: with us about the book? Wrap it up and give 835 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:43,960 Speaker 1: me back. Well, it's it's uh, it's still in the 836 00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:49,360 Speaker 1: process of getting registered with Amazon, but you can still 837 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,800 Speaker 1: be You can still buy the book by calling my 838 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: staff in ordering through her. And that's my daughter who 839 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,400 Speaker 1: you already know and actually met this morning. But you 840 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,120 Speaker 1: can call her up and tell her that you want 841 00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,960 Speaker 1: one of those books and she'll work it out with 842 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:12,080 Speaker 1: you m too. She'll do the hand do the pricing 843 00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 1: for you. And she works with a bunch of different 844 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: internet models for for handling money like uh cash app 845 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: is one of them, Zella another one, PayPal and Venomo 846 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,640 Speaker 1: are some of the ones she works out. She just 847 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:36,280 Speaker 1: get your order, get your payment, and mail your mail 848 00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:43,640 Speaker 1: your book out to you and otherwise otherwise otherwise I 849 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:51,520 Speaker 1: keep I keep with the progress of it on my website, 850 00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:59,640 Speaker 1: my my Facebook site. Well, gee, I we want to 851 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,480 Speaker 1: thank you once again. It was great to catch up. 852 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking the time to join us today talking 853 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,959 Speaker 1: about your book. UH. You can also find George's book 854 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,720 Speaker 1: on its website, George hand dot com. Be sure to 855 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,000 Speaker 1: check that out. Thanks my friend for taking the time 856 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: with us today. You really appreciate it. Really, Thank you, Steve, 857 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:28,760 Speaker 1: your consummate professional. I really enjoyed this. It's uh, it was. 858 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,920 Speaker 1: It was my pleasure and as always UH, as as 859 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 1: you signed off on all your chattels of your boat, 860 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,800 Speaker 1: I signed up with the same thing you know when 861 01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 1: I didn't review of your book, a written review by 862 01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:54,520 Speaker 1: Almighty Goden with read you read. Thanks Steve. Cheers alright, 863 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,240 Speaker 1: before we leave, if you want to get SOFTWAREPP on 864 01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,240 Speaker 1: your phone, download our free mobile app and get easy 865 01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:06,200 Speaker 1: access to our articles podcast here all perfectly foreman into you. 866 01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Please subscribe the Software dot com to get access to 867 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,280 Speaker 1: our library of all our books, an exclusive team room, 868 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,560 Speaker 1: forms and content available on all your Apple and Android devices. 869 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 1: We want to thank all of our listeners for joining 870 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 1: us today and especially our good friend Geo. Geo, thanks 871 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,520 Speaker 1: again for joining us. All the best to you and 872 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,000 Speaker 1: your daughter. Thank you once again for ironing out our 873 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:35,560 Speaker 1: details today. We really appreciate all the best, all the time. Steve, 874 01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:56,160 Speaker 1: all right, we'll be back with another podcast soon. You've 875 01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,400 Speaker 1: been listening to your self repre