WEBVTT - Raven’s Report: Our Takeaways From That Massive GRRM Interview 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:05.160 Wording. Today's episode contains spoilers for the first episode of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.680 a Night of the Seven Kingdos on hbo X be warned. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.560 Hello and name it is Jason gets up and I'm 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:28.640 Mercy Nike and. 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:30.200 Welcome back to xt revision of the podcast where we 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:31.720 dive peping your babe. Joe's movie is kind like a 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.560 pop culture even Myra Mancus. We're reading three episodes because 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:36.320 there's on Saturday. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.560 In today's episode, guys, it's our first Ravens report. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.320 The cow We're coming to you from Western US. You 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:45.040 like that one? 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.479 That's good? Huh, that's a that's a raven sound I 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:54.400 was looking at the hawk like feel like, yeah, we 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:55.840 don't need to be special. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.080 How about like a how about like a quaw? Like 0:00:58.120 --> 0:00:58.680 I feel like a. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.680 Raven book, but you know, generally there's a bird going around. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.400 I'm a crow fan, honestly. Okay, guys, who has a 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.479 raven soundboard send it to the discord. 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:08.440 We'll use it next time. 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.080 But during Raven's Report, we're gonna be checking out how 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.040 the first episode of the Incredible Night of the Seven. 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.920 Kingdoms has landed with the audience. We know Georgia arm 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:20.760 Martin has been out here talking about it and at 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.440 Hollywood Reporter. So we'll be bringing in a Boo to 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.000 talk alongside me and Jason on that, and we're gonna 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.880 unpack some of the central themes to the show, a 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.440 little bit of the law and why it's hitting for 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:31.680 us in the way it is. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.840 But first, let's talk about some of the early reactions 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.319 to this show. I think you know, Rosie and I 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.480 have been very interested because it is such a tonal 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.160 shift when I first saw it, if people are gonna 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.680 like it. We open with a poop joke, like there's 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:54.000 a lot of poop in it, and it seems, at 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:59.160 least on the critical side, that shift in tone is 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.080 being received positively, very strong on Rotten Tomatoes thus far 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:08.240 so before on Metacritic. Rosie Boo, your thoughts about the 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.760 tunnel shift and how did you acclimate right away or 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.160 did it take a little bit of time? Oh, Boo, 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:15.800 let's start with you. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.160 It took me some time, and I'll be honest, it 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.799 probably took me a second rewatch for me to fully 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.720 enjoy this episode. I enjoyed the episode on the first watch, 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.560 but I walked away a little more mixed, a little shocked, 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.320 at the tone and a little confused that this was 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:33.840 a Game of Throne spin off, that this was a 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.080 Game of Thrones property. But when I rewatched it, and 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.680 as I sat down to write out our script for 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:44.359 today's conversation and really sat with my feelings, I've come 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.880 around to appreciating the shift in tone and some of 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:48.720 the comedy as well. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.720 I actually love that you are coming out from that 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.600 space of boo, because I think that is really the 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.200 audience in space. I think a lot of people in 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.040 that moment where Dunk thinks about his great mission that 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:02.720 he's gonna go and picks up his sword and they 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.360 play the theme and then you know, you get that 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.560 crazy poop joke, like why is he pooping that way? 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.440 Why is this but like pooping it out like it's 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.080 a vomit machine. It is a very different vibe. But yes, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.280 I too, obviously I was really into the tone. I'm 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.280 ready for something different. I think that there is something 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:24.800 really interesting about taking something so certifiably popular, even in 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.079 its continued version of House of the Dragon, that shit's 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.720 still doing crazy numbers. They could have just said, hey, 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:31.840 maybe this isn't the right fit. We know what's right 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.160 and I think this is actually how you expand a 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.360 universe is by looking at the different layers and complexities 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.600 and perspectives that allow us to enter the world from 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:46.040 different angles. And to me that I have seen in 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.600 the same way actually as a boo experience that people 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.160 now a week later now dming me and going okay, wait, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.240 I think I get it. Like, I actually think there's 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.800 something very transgressive and subversive about a period piece from 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.160 the Eye of the Pauper. But it's not like, oh, 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.600 Charles Dickens, you're in Pulverty, everything's terrible. It's you can 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.320 actually interact with people and talk to them and meet 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.320 different kinds of people and walk your way up. It's 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.760 an aspirational story and I think that's really cool. 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.160 Yeah. I think it took me, you know, probably on 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.440 first watch, probably to the second episode to fully acclimate 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:23.400 and then but I was in the groove by the 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.719 time Lionel Barathian, Yeah, because of that is such a 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.240 vibe and the performance is so good. But it reminded me, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.359 you know, my reaction in terms of tone, and I 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.520 agree with you on rewatch. I'm on like third or 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:39.960 fourth rewatch now now it's like you get it. I 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.080 get it right away, you know, but it took a second. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.520 And it reminds me of when I first started watching 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.240 when Succession first came out, and I would say through 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.919 the first four to five episodes, I was a little 0:04:53.960 --> 0:05:00.719 confused because the cinematic style was drama, right. It was 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:07.760 shot like a drama, but the tone was like dark comedy, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.880 sharp comedy, and I was expecting the big short like 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.360 because that was the pedigree, right, So I was expecting 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:20.320 this more broad comedy with potentially cutaways and like breaking 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.360 of the fourth wall and some wilder stuff. And it 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.040 was shot like very again, like very much like a 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:30.160 family drama, and I didn't get it right away, all 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.240 this rack focus and different things they were doing. Uh. 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.400 And it's the same with this, like it the undercut 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.200 of the the subversion of the Game of Thrones theme, 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.480 I think is that with the poop which we talk 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:49.719 about work right now, I guess is uh, you know, 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.800 like a cannon shout across the bow. They're basically, hey, 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.800 this is not the Game of Thrones that you're expecting, 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:03.800 so be ready. And I think on first watch, I 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.880 was like WHOA. I was taken aback, much like George 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:15.800 who I wrote, what is this typing and his typing 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.880 in his DOS computer? What is this? Where did this 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.280 come from? I don't know if we really need this shit, 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:27.159 literal shit, but but I really liked it for whatever reason. 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.839 And then I later explains so in the script it reads, 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:33.960 Duncan here is the hero theme in his head, which 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.520 wasn't necessarily going to be the Iron Thrones theme at 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.279 that moment. All we're trying to say is Dunk's not 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.200 a hero yet. He's just a very nervous kid with 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.600 a nervous stomach. So that I was much like George, 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.120 I was like, whoa, And immediately my mind goes to 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.240 I wonder what people are going to think? What was 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:53.560 your what were your thoughts? 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.600 I think something really interesting about what Ira said. That 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.840 is like again, I actually think that speed to the 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.280 layers of this show, because the truth is that while 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.240 it seems like it's just a funny poop joke with 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.800 like projectile poop, that is not the way that the 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.160 showrunners are looking at it. They are saying, this is 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.520 a kid who the person who raised him just died. 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.720 This brutal yet loving man just died, and yeah, he 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.640 wants to go on a mission, but first he's got 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.640 to poop out whatever bad snake he just cooked himself 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.280 on this fire after digging up his old man. There 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.800 is a level of care and thought here that I 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.320 think is coming through, and it's also allowing us this 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.880 new tone, is allowing us these moments that are speaking 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.240 to people in a way that I personally feel like 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.200 we have rarely gotten to see, maybe since like originally 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.920 Bran and the Three Eyed Raven and the kind of 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.080 that mystical moment where everyone just goes, oh wait, we're 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.320 buying in, like there's magic in this world. There was 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.040 something in the sequence where and I've been talking about 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.160 this with you guys all week, but so many people 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:56.960 have been sharing it with me, so many people in 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.920 our discord, so many people online. The moment when Egg 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.760 tells Dunk that they are the only ones who've seen 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.440 the star and so there's this clip of Egg with 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.600 this little smile and Dunk laying in the background saying, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.360 so the luck is ours alone. There is something hopeful 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.760 and magical and not terrible and not brutal in that 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.480 that I think can only really exist in a show 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.120 like this. So the poop and the resetting of boundaries 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.480 and the line I loved, which is basically one of 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.160 Dunk's first lines, Oh no, stop, mister rapist, where you're 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.760 like also establishing like, hey, probably not going to have 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.800 that thing that you guys have all been complaining about. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.560 They do a lot of really silly little things that 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.439 seem like light comedy moments, but I think are actually 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.400 establishing a new status quo for this show and this 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.960 space within it. Aboo, Like, what do you think out 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:48.320 on it? 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:48.559 Now? 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.040 You've done your rewatches and you're sort of working out 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.280 how it's setting up the rest of the season. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.200 Yeah, I'm a little softer on it now, but I 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:02.160 will say the comedy and the human isn't exactly working 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.760 for me even on a rewatch. I appreciate the lighter tone. 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.040 I appreciate the more heartfelt themes and the smaller scale story. 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.920 I don't mind any of those things, but I think 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.480 the like, for example, I find the cutaways to Sir Arlen, 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.520 you know, like slapping Young Dunk or cutting cutting away 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.599 to like a one off gag with Young Dunk. I 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.480 find those like unnecessary, Like I don't find those funny 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.720 at all. They kind of feel weird to me. Maybe 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.800 that's just not the kind of comedy that makes me laugh. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.040 But I didn't laugh at any any of those quick 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:39.840 cutaways and flashbacks, So I think the balance of comedy 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.079 is not working for me quite yet. Like the poop 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.280 felt like over the top for me, I think you 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.120 could have still subverted Game of Thrones without it. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:48.240 Was very loud, juicy. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:54.680 It was very though I will say, very medievally correct. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:10:01.040 I feel like I have a littly. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.679 Jason, what were you going to say about the cutbacks, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:02.640 because I'm really interested. 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.360 Well, let's let's hold that for themes, because I do 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:10.240 have some ideas regarding the what it says about the 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.880 perspective of this show, which is as as Ira has 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.480 talked about, and as George has talked about, and as 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.760 is evident for the most part in watching this episode 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.920 in the entire series, the show is told from Dunk's perspective. 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.559 Everything you're seeing is what Dunk sees and how he 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.080 experiences it and thoughts that he's having in the moment. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.000 And so I'm eager to talk about what those cutaways 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:58.800 might mean with that in the let's talk about I mean, 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:00.880 we kind of have so we you mentioned this Hollywood 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.480 Reporter episode. Let's talk about Oh is this Hollywood Reporter 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.440 report an interview with George Martin. I think is probably 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:14.040 his most intensive interview ever, or maybe in certainly, and 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:19.920 in it he goes scorched earth at times, very praiseful 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.400 of a Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Your reactions to 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.360 George's Hollywood Reporter interview? 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.000 I think my first reaction staying with the Knight of 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.360 the Kingdoms for a second here before we talk about 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.120 other things. Yeah, is I am excited to see that 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.720 the plan with the show is yearly seasons. Season two 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:44.680 is slated to come out in twenty twenty seven. It'll 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.200 cover the second novella, presumably season three and twenty twenty 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:49.520 eight covered the third novella. 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.280 What scares me is then. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:58.280 We're out of material unless Martin can write more novellas 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.480 than the Duncan Egg universe. We will be working, you know, 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.280 quote unquote offscript for season four and beyond, and I'm 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.640 curious how that's going to affect the show. I know 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.200 Martin has shared ideas with the showrunner Ira for other 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.240 Duncan Egg stories that he's just been sitting on for 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.560 many many years, and I'm sure those will inspire futures, 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:19.640 future seasons. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.920 But that's my first. 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.320 Question that comes up after reading this interview. What happens 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.199 the show? What happens when we run out? 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:32.920 Yeah, I'm I guess I'm less It's a good question, right, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.160 I'm less worried about that because I think there's talented 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.800 people out many talented writers out there that could pick 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.640 up the slack. And I also feel like with regards 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:49.319 to Game of Thrones, the original series, which I think 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.000 everyone agrees, you can kind of feel the part where 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.320 they ran at us. Yes, yes, I think that there 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.320 are extenuating circumstances, namely that the showrunners had been like 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:05.000 ensconced in fucking Iceland in Northern Ireland for like ten 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.400 months of the year for the last six years at 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:14.160 that point, and we're burnt out and there's all of 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.960 which is to say, I think that can be managed 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:23.800 better this time around. But I agree with you certainly 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.600 a concern and I and I agree with you also 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.960 that you know George has a lot of plans for 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.360 further Duncan eggs and who knows. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:37.120 I love I just love George, like I honestly straight 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.800 would it be a Game of Ferns release if George 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.760 wasn't doing like an outrageous blog post or interview. I'm actually, like, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.679 really impressed that this was a thhr. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.400 Interview and not just like a massive blog post. 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.160 I think that that proves how much he loves this 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.640 show and how much he really is really supportive of it. 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.200 I think for me, you know, I expect George to 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.480 do like a little sassy chat, so I was not 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.760 that shocked by any of the stuff in it. I 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.319 think the thing I found most interesting was just seeing 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.320 the depth and breadth of what HBO has tried to 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.760 do with this universe and whether or not it's working 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.200 or not working. Like I would have loved to see 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.160 the CE Sick Snake Show, which was going to be 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.160 a live action show, but now they're saying it might 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.040 be an animated show, which I kind of love the 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.520 idea of. And I think after the tone switch and 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.440 the production quality of Duncan Egg, I think they could 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.520 be building something here that actually is a really interesting, 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.120 unique and original shared universe. Because if you allow other 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.920 people now to tell stories within this world based on 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.880 George's law, you could really be in an incredible space 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.560 that Eggon's Conquest talking about it being this kind of 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.280 giant Dune sized feature film. Obviously, we know we talked 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.880 about the John Snow series being scrapped, but I love 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.280 an Aria in Esos, So for me, it was just 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:58.440 kind of very interesting to see post the original DMB 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.320 Game of Thrones go how HBO is still kind of 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.640 trying to cultivate this world but imagine it in a 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.440 different way. And I also have to say, as somebody 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.240 who is a writer who often struggles with writing, I 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.040 like George's honesty about how he struggles to write Winds 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.480 of Winter and forgetting like finishing those books. 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.960 A lot of people, like a lot of people would 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.360 be like I'm doing it, like I'm Georgia R. Martin, like, 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.720 don't worry about it. But He's always just like, hey, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.960 it's kind of hard. And I love these and I 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.040 don't really want to give them over to Brandon Sanderson 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.800 or whoever else you guys want me to give them to. 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.160 I just want to finish them when I can, but 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.400 imagine if I can't finish them, which is the ultimate 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.600 feeling of that we all have every time we write. 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.920 So I was once again just endeared to one of 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.360 our famous fantasy eccentrics. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.440 I was endeared as well, and it left me, especially 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.800 the parts where he you know, basically lays out his 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:56.720 relationship with House to the Dragon showrunner Ryan Condall basically 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:01.520 saying like there is a relationship. It That part made 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.600 me sad and it made me think, you know, TV 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.600 is a writer's medium. Usually it is the writers who 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.320 are in who are running the thing. The showrunner is 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.760 that can that can change and shift. But usually like 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:20.000 David Chase and the Sopranos, or you know, Matthew Weiner 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.080 with mad Ment, like Phoebe waller Bridge, it's the it's 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.240 the person who wrote the script, who is the showrunner, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.280 who is you know, the boss of the director and 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.080 on down the line or as you go to film, 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.600 the director is the tour for the most part. I 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.320 mean there's pleased shift, you know, producer power struggles and whatnot, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.960 but it's the director who who drives the ship. Now, 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:48.720 the difference here is that in neither medium are neither 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.040 medium is really calibrated for like a superstar writer like 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.600 that's like not a real that's that's a tough thing. 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.440 And it makes me think of sports, like I think 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.440 with Jory in the relationship, I have no idea what 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:06.080 happened there. I have empathy, I think for I mean, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.439 I understand when you're adapting stuff, the realities of stuff 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.280 has to change at the same time, Like it's hard 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.240 when you have the touchstone guy who means so much 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.800 to the story, you want to keep him worded. And 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.080 it reminds me of sports, you know, Like I think 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.040 that a lot of being a coach of like a 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.560 sports team is not necessarily drawing up like these incredible 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.359 plays or managing what to do coming out of timeouts 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:38.080 or keeping track of fouls. It's like management of personalities. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.160 And I think with George, you've just got to manage 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.439 him like some You've got to be like, he's like 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.560 the star player, he's like Lebron right, and so you 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:54.040 just got to make sure he's somehow, some way. The 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.760 job is like not just the shot list and the 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.360 production and the locations, it's like, how, what's george mood? 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.480 What's a feeling? Today's his what's his mood today? What's 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:09.240 his mind? Exactly? And so I don't know that that 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.520 didn't happen. All I'm saying is I think that that's 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:14.360 that's a big part of it, and that's the way 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.880 I read a lot of that. It's sad that the 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.240 relationships has moved to that level, especially because it's damaging 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.760 to the project, which I think, yeah, and I know 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.800 and I think now is going to get is going 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:34.640 to be watched through filtered lenses by probably a large 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.359 segment of the fan base because they, yeah, and and 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.320 the writers who worked really hard on it are going 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.840 to get blamed for not understanding the vision and when 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.920 that's not when that's not how the business works either, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.920 that's not exactly. So I feel bad for for everybody. 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:51.760 The YouTube slap his fear is going to be all 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.080 over season three. You know, George wouldn't have wanted this. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.040 George would have gone a different direction. This wasn't George's vision, 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.480 et cetera, et cetera, and that just hurts the property ultimately. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.160 It's also not usually actually about representing what George would 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.040 have wanted. Like you said, YouTube slop discourse, rage bait. 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.240 I think it's a shame because, as we know, I'm 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:11.440 a huge House of the Dragon fan. 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.919 I thought season two was unbelievable. Love. I love the 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.679 changes that they've made because I do think that you 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.960 need to make them to make the show hit. In 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.959 the same way, I am interested to see what happens 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.600 in season three and how different it is. But you 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:27.520 know what the good thing is, as the Hollywood Report 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.920 article kind of said, like at some point George was 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.080 brought back on. We haven't talked about it yet, but 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.359 hopefully this is like two big guys with big thoughts 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.240 and they can work it out, you know, because that's 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.320 two of the biggest creatives in the game. So I'm 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.400 interested to see if there can be a piece reckoning 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.080 or olive branch before season three comes out. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.199 And also, you know, one of the things that was 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.320 in the Hollywood Reporter article that was notable to me 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.560 and I haven't seen too many people discuss was the 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.800 fact that the big dragon battle that it seemed like 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.280 we're were leading up to in last season of House 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.240 the Dragon didn't happen, got pushed to the next season. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.320 And that was an HBO call. That was a budget call. 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.159 That wasn't the showrunner call or anything like that. That 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.400 was HBO saying, we're spending a lot of fucking money here, 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.840 can we do this next season? And that was the 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.119 thing that the show got killed for. So, you know, 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:28.639 these are complicated, but it's not on the fans not 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.440 to understand the ins and outs of TV production like 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.560 all the time, and it's you know, kind of our 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.680 job to try and communicate that stuff. But that part 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.800 I found I found interesting because that was something the 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.399 show really got killed for. Was like, I thought, where's 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.200 the battle? I thought we were gonna lead up to 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.480 the whole and I get it. That said, I'm sure 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.440 the next season will be wall to wall. Let's take 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.040 a quick break and let's talk about the themes of 0:20:52.080 --> 0:21:11.040 the first episode of The Night of the Seventh Kick. Yeah, Iraq, 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:18.200 we are that watching this episode. The theme that rose 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:23.040 to my mind most kind of obviously was that this 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:27.600 is an episode about an outsider, about a person who 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:34.280 is experiencing for the first time, his hand around the 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:40.520 grip of power. He's experienced it from you know, next 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.080 to the person with his hand on the sword for 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.160 many years now, but he's not actually had his hand 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.679 around the sword and he's not used to it. And 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.200 we see that in a bunch of different scenes told 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:57.560 through a bunch of different characters. But let's talk about 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.280 that because we open with Dunk talking about out how 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:08.800 he his mentor, Sir Arland, has rudely died on him, 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.920 leaving him now as the sole inheritor of his very 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:18.360 meager legacy and also of his title of Night. And 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:23.720 it's clear that he doesn't, you know, whatever Sir Arln 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.119 gave him, he did not give him what to do next, 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.280 because he has no idea. Do I sell the horses, 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.040 Do I go to a big town, do I you know, 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.080 do I do I become a self sword? What do 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.119 I do? I don't know what to do? And it 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.680 makes him so nervous that he takes a very juicy shit. 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.679 Let's talk about that. You're how does the theme of 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.280 the Outsider strike you? And how do we think Dunk 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.840 is doing as a as a as a Knight in 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.240