1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,160
Speaker 1: Wording. Today's episode contains spoilers for the first episode of

2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: a Night of the Seven Kingdos on hbo X be warned.

3
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 2: Hello and name it is Jason gets up and I'm

4
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,640
Speaker 2: Mercy Nike and.

5
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: Welcome back to xt revision of the podcast where we

6
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:31,720
Speaker 1: dive peping your babe. Joe's movie is kind like a

7
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 1: pop culture even Myra Mancus. We're reading three episodes because

8
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 1: there's on Saturday.

9
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,560
Speaker 3: In today's episode, guys, it's our first Ravens report.

10
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 2: The cow We're coming to you from Western US. You

11
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 2: like that one?

12
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 1: That's good? Huh, that's a that's a raven sound I

13
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:54,400
Speaker 1: was looking at the hawk like feel like, yeah, we

14
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 1: don't need to be special.

15
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 2: How about like a how about like a quaw? Like

16
00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 2: I feel like a.

17
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 3: Raven book, but you know, generally there's a bird going around.

18
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,400
Speaker 3: I'm a crow fan, honestly. Okay, guys, who has a

19
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,479
Speaker 3: raven soundboard send it to the discord.

20
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 2: We'll use it next time.

21
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,080
Speaker 3: But during Raven's Report, we're gonna be checking out how

22
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,040
Speaker 3: the first episode of the Incredible Night of the Seven.

23
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 2: Kingdoms has landed with the audience. We know Georgia arm

24
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,760
Speaker 2: Martin has been out here talking about it and at

25
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 2: Hollywood Reporter. So we'll be bringing in a Boo to

26
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: talk alongside me and Jason on that, and we're gonna

27
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: unpack some of the central themes to the show, a

28
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 2: little bit of the law and why it's hitting for

29
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 2: us in the way it is.

30
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 1: But first, let's talk about some of the early reactions

31
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,319
Speaker 1: to this show. I think you know, Rosie and I

32
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,480
Speaker 1: have been very interested because it is such a tonal

33
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 1: shift when I first saw it, if people are gonna

34
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: like it. We open with a poop joke, like there's

35
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 1: a lot of poop in it, and it seems, at

36
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: least on the critical side, that shift in tone is

37
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 1: being received positively, very strong on Rotten Tomatoes thus far

38
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:08,240
Speaker 1: so before on Metacritic. Rosie Boo, your thoughts about the

39
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 1: tunnel shift and how did you acclimate right away or

40
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 1: did it take a little bit of time? Oh, Boo,

41
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 1: let's start with you.

42
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 4: It took me some time, and I'll be honest, it

43
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,799
Speaker 4: probably took me a second rewatch for me to fully

44
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 4: enjoy this episode. I enjoyed the episode on the first watch,

45
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,560
Speaker 4: but I walked away a little more mixed, a little shocked,

46
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 4: at the tone and a little confused that this was

47
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:33,840
Speaker 4: a Game of Throne spin off, that this was a

48
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 4: Game of Thrones property. But when I rewatched it, and

49
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,680
Speaker 4: as I sat down to write out our script for

50
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 4: today's conversation and really sat with my feelings, I've come

51
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 4: around to appreciating the shift in tone and some of

52
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 4: the comedy as well.

53
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 2: I actually love that you are coming out from that

54
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 2: space of boo, because I think that is really the

55
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 2: audience in space. I think a lot of people in

56
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,040
Speaker 2: that moment where Dunk thinks about his great mission that

57
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,720
Speaker 2: he's gonna go and picks up his sword and they

58
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,360
Speaker 2: play the theme and then you know, you get that

59
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 2: crazy poop joke, like why is he pooping that way?

60
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,440
Speaker 2: Why is this but like pooping it out like it's

61
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,080
Speaker 2: a vomit machine. It is a very different vibe. But yes,

62
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 2: I too, obviously I was really into the tone. I'm

63
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 2: ready for something different. I think that there is something

64
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:24,800
Speaker 2: really interesting about taking something so certifiably popular, even in

65
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,079
Speaker 2: its continued version of House of the Dragon, that shit's

66
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 2: still doing crazy numbers. They could have just said, hey,

67
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 2: maybe this isn't the right fit. We know what's right

68
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 2: and I think this is actually how you expand a

69
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 2: universe is by looking at the different layers and complexities

70
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 2: and perspectives that allow us to enter the world from

71
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 2: different angles. And to me that I have seen in

72
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,600
Speaker 2: the same way actually as a boo experience that people

73
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 2: now a week later now dming me and going okay, wait,

74
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 2: I think I get it. Like, I actually think there's

75
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 2: something very transgressive and subversive about a period piece from

76
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,160
Speaker 2: the Eye of the Pauper. But it's not like, oh,

77
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 2: Charles Dickens, you're in Pulverty, everything's terrible. It's you can

78
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 2: actually interact with people and talk to them and meet

79
00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 2: different kinds of people and walk your way up. It's

80
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 2: an aspirational story and I think that's really cool.

81
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it took me, you know, probably on

82
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,440
Speaker 1: first watch, probably to the second episode to fully acclimate

83
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 1: and then but I was in the groove by the

84
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,719
Speaker 1: time Lionel Barathian, Yeah, because of that is such a

85
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 1: vibe and the performance is so good. But it reminded me,

86
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,359
Speaker 1: you know, my reaction in terms of tone, and I

87
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,520
Speaker 1: agree with you on rewatch. I'm on like third or

88
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 1: fourth rewatch now now it's like you get it. I

89
00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 1: get it right away, you know, but it took a second.

90
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 1: And it reminds me of when I first started watching

91
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 1: when Succession first came out, and I would say through

92
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,919
Speaker 1: the first four to five episodes, I was a little

93
00:04:53,960 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 1: confused because the cinematic style was drama, right. It was

94
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: shot like a drama, but the tone was like dark comedy,

95
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 1: sharp comedy, and I was expecting the big short like

96
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 1: because that was the pedigree, right, So I was expecting

97
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 1: this more broad comedy with potentially cutaways and like breaking

98
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,360
Speaker 1: of the fourth wall and some wilder stuff. And it

99
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,040
Speaker 1: was shot like very again, like very much like a

100
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,160
Speaker 1: family drama, and I didn't get it right away, all

101
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 1: this rack focus and different things they were doing. Uh.

102
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 1: And it's the same with this, like it the undercut

103
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 1: of the the subversion of the Game of Thrones theme,

104
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,480
Speaker 1: I think is that with the poop which we talk

105
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 1: about work right now, I guess is uh, you know,

106
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 1: like a cannon shout across the bow. They're basically, hey,

107
00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 1: this is not the Game of Thrones that you're expecting,

108
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 1: so be ready. And I think on first watch, I

109
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 1: was like WHOA. I was taken aback, much like George

110
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 1: who I wrote, what is this typing and his typing

111
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 1: in his DOS computer? What is this? Where did this

112
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 1: come from? I don't know if we really need this shit,

113
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:27,159
Speaker 1: literal shit, but but I really liked it for whatever reason.

114
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,839
Speaker 1: And then I later explains so in the script it reads,

115
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: Duncan here is the hero theme in his head, which

116
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily going to be the Iron Thrones theme at

117
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 1: that moment. All we're trying to say is Dunk's not

118
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 1: a hero yet. He's just a very nervous kid with

119
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: a nervous stomach. So that I was much like George,

120
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, And immediately my mind goes to

121
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 1: I wonder what people are going to think? What was

122
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 1: your what were your thoughts?

123
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,600
Speaker 2: I think something really interesting about what Ira said. That

124
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 2: is like again, I actually think that speed to the

125
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,280
Speaker 2: layers of this show, because the truth is that while

126
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 2: it seems like it's just a funny poop joke with

127
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 2: like projectile poop, that is not the way that the

128
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 2: showrunners are looking at it. They are saying, this is

129
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 2: a kid who the person who raised him just died.

130
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 2: This brutal yet loving man just died, and yeah, he

131
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 2: wants to go on a mission, but first he's got

132
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,640
Speaker 2: to poop out whatever bad snake he just cooked himself

133
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 2: on this fire after digging up his old man. There

134
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 2: is a level of care and thought here that I

135
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 2: think is coming through, and it's also allowing us this

136
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: new tone, is allowing us these moments that are speaking

137
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,240
Speaker 2: to people in a way that I personally feel like

138
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,200
Speaker 2: we have rarely gotten to see, maybe since like originally

139
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 2: Bran and the Three Eyed Raven and the kind of

140
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 2: that mystical moment where everyone just goes, oh wait, we're

141
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 2: buying in, like there's magic in this world. There was

142
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 2: something in the sequence where and I've been talking about

143
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 2: this with you guys all week, but so many people

144
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: have been sharing it with me, so many people in

145
00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 2: our discord, so many people online. The moment when Egg

146
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 2: tells Dunk that they are the only ones who've seen

147
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 2: the star and so there's this clip of Egg with

148
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 2: this little smile and Dunk laying in the background saying,

149
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 2: so the luck is ours alone. There is something hopeful

150
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: and magical and not terrible and not brutal in that

151
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 2: that I think can only really exist in a show

152
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 2: like this. So the poop and the resetting of boundaries

153
00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,480
Speaker 2: and the line I loved, which is basically one of

154
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 2: Dunk's first lines, Oh no, stop, mister rapist, where you're

155
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 2: like also establishing like, hey, probably not going to have

156
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 2: that thing that you guys have all been complaining about.

157
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 2: They do a lot of really silly little things that

158
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,439
Speaker 2: seem like light comedy moments, but I think are actually

159
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,400
Speaker 2: establishing a new status quo for this show and this

160
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,960
Speaker 2: space within it. Aboo, Like, what do you think out

161
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:48,320
Speaker 2: on it?

162
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:48,559
Speaker 3: Now?

163
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 2: You've done your rewatches and you're sort of working out

164
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 2: how it's setting up the rest of the season.

165
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a little softer on it now, but I

166
00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 4: will say the comedy and the human isn't exactly working

167
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 4: for me even on a rewatch. I appreciate the lighter tone.

168
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 4: I appreciate the more heartfelt themes and the smaller scale story.

169
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 4: I don't mind any of those things, but I think

170
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 4: the like, for example, I find the cutaways to Sir Arlen,

171
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 4: you know, like slapping Young Dunk or cutting cutting away

172
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,599
Speaker 4: to like a one off gag with Young Dunk. I

173
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,480
Speaker 4: find those like unnecessary, Like I don't find those funny

174
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,720
Speaker 4: at all. They kind of feel weird to me. Maybe

175
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 4: that's just not the kind of comedy that makes me laugh.

176
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 4: But I didn't laugh at any any of those quick

177
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 4: cutaways and flashbacks, So I think the balance of comedy

178
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,079
Speaker 4: is not working for me quite yet. Like the poop

179
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 4: felt like over the top for me, I think you

180
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 4: could have still subverted Game of Thrones without it.

181
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 1: Was very loud, juicy.

182
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:54,680
Speaker 3: It was very though I will say, very medievally correct.

183
00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 2: I feel like I have a littly.

184
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,679
Speaker 3: Jason, what were you going to say about the cutbacks,

185
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 3: because I'm really interested.

186
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's hold that for themes, because I do

187
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 1: have some ideas regarding the what it says about the

188
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 1: perspective of this show, which is as as Ira has

189
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 1: talked about, and as George has talked about, and as

190
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 1: is evident for the most part in watching this episode

191
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 1: in the entire series, the show is told from Dunk's perspective.

192
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,559
Speaker 1: Everything you're seeing is what Dunk sees and how he

193
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 1: experiences it and thoughts that he's having in the moment.

194
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: And so I'm eager to talk about what those cutaways

195
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 1: might mean with that in the let's talk about I mean,

196
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 1: we kind of have so we you mentioned this Hollywood

197
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 1: Reporter episode. Let's talk about Oh is this Hollywood Reporter

198
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: report an interview with George Martin. I think is probably

199
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:14,040
Speaker 1: his most intensive interview ever, or maybe in certainly, and

200
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,920
Speaker 1: in it he goes scorched earth at times, very praiseful

201
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 1: of a Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Your reactions to

202
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: George's Hollywood Reporter interview?

203
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 4: I think my first reaction staying with the Knight of

204
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 4: the Kingdoms for a second here before we talk about

205
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 4: other things. Yeah, is I am excited to see that

206
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,720
Speaker 4: the plan with the show is yearly seasons. Season two

207
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,680
Speaker 4: is slated to come out in twenty twenty seven. It'll

208
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,200
Speaker 4: cover the second novella, presumably season three and twenty twenty

209
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 4: eight covered the third novella.

210
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: What scares me is then.

211
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 4: We're out of material unless Martin can write more novellas

212
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 4: than the Duncan Egg universe. We will be working, you know,

213
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 4: quote unquote offscript for season four and beyond, and I'm

214
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 4: curious how that's going to affect the show. I know

215
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,200
Speaker 4: Martin has shared ideas with the showrunner Ira for other

216
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 4: Duncan Egg stories that he's just been sitting on for

217
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 4: many many years, and I'm sure those will inspire futures,

218
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 4: future seasons.

219
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 1: But that's my first.

220
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,320
Speaker 4: Question that comes up after reading this interview. What happens

221
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,199
Speaker 4: the show? What happens when we run out?

222
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I guess I'm less It's a good question, right,

223
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm less worried about that because I think there's talented

224
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: people out many talented writers out there that could pick

225
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 1: up the slack. And I also feel like with regards

226
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: to Game of Thrones, the original series, which I think

227
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 1: everyone agrees, you can kind of feel the part where

228
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 1: they ran at us. Yes, yes, I think that there

229
00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 1: are extenuating circumstances, namely that the showrunners had been like

230
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: ensconced in fucking Iceland in Northern Ireland for like ten

231
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 1: months of the year for the last six years at

232
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:14,160
Speaker 1: that point, and we're burnt out and there's all of

233
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,960
Speaker 1: which is to say, I think that can be managed

234
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:23,800
Speaker 1: better this time around. But I agree with you certainly

235
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: a concern and I and I agree with you also

236
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 1: that you know George has a lot of plans for

237
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,360
Speaker 1: further Duncan eggs and who knows.

238
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,120
Speaker 3: I love I just love George, like I honestly straight

239
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 3: would it be a Game of Ferns release if George

240
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 3: wasn't doing like an outrageous blog post or interview. I'm actually, like,

241
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 3: really impressed that this was a thhr.

242
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 2: Interview and not just like a massive blog post.

243
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 3: I think that that proves how much he loves this

244
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 3: show and how much he really is really supportive of it.

245
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,200
Speaker 2: I think for me, you know, I expect George to

246
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 2: do like a little sassy chat, so I was not

247
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 2: that shocked by any of the stuff in it. I

248
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,319
Speaker 2: think the thing I found most interesting was just seeing

249
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 2: the depth and breadth of what HBO has tried to

250
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 2: do with this universe and whether or not it's working

251
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 2: or not working. Like I would have loved to see

252
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 2: the CE Sick Snake Show, which was going to be

253
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 2: a live action show, but now they're saying it might

254
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 2: be an animated show, which I kind of love the

255
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 2: idea of. And I think after the tone switch and

256
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 2: the production quality of Duncan Egg, I think they could

257
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,520
Speaker 2: be building something here that actually is a really interesting,

258
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 2: unique and original shared universe. Because if you allow other

259
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 2: people now to tell stories within this world based on

260
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 2: George's law, you could really be in an incredible space

261
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 2: that Eggon's Conquest talking about it being this kind of

262
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 2: giant Dune sized feature film. Obviously, we know we talked

263
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 2: about the John Snow series being scrapped, but I love

264
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 2: an Aria in Esos, So for me, it was just

265
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 2: kind of very interesting to see post the original DMB

266
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 2: Game of Thrones go how HBO is still kind of

267
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 2: trying to cultivate this world but imagine it in a

268
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 2: different way. And I also have to say, as somebody

269
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 2: who is a writer who often struggles with writing, I

270
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,040
Speaker 2: like George's honesty about how he struggles to write Winds

271
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 2: of Winter and forgetting like finishing those books.

272
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 3: A lot of people, like a lot of people would

273
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 3: be like I'm doing it, like I'm Georgia R. Martin, like,

274
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 3: don't worry about it. But He's always just like, hey,

275
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 3: it's kind of hard. And I love these and I

276
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 3: don't really want to give them over to Brandon Sanderson

277
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 3: or whoever else you guys want me to give them to.

278
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 2: I just want to finish them when I can, but

279
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 2: imagine if I can't finish them, which is the ultimate

280
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 2: feeling of that we all have every time we write.

281
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,920
Speaker 2: So I was once again just endeared to one of

282
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 2: our famous fantasy eccentrics.

283
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 1: I was endeared as well, and it left me, especially

284
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,800
Speaker 1: the parts where he you know, basically lays out his

285
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 1: relationship with House to the Dragon showrunner Ryan Condall basically

286
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 1: saying like there is a relationship. It That part made

287
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,600
Speaker 1: me sad and it made me think, you know, TV

288
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 1: is a writer's medium. Usually it is the writers who

289
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: are in who are running the thing. The showrunner is

290
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 1: that can that can change and shift. But usually like

291
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 1: David Chase and the Sopranos, or you know, Matthew Weiner

292
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 1: with mad Ment, like Phoebe waller Bridge, it's the it's

293
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 1: the person who wrote the script, who is the showrunner,

294
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: who is you know, the boss of the director and

295
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 1: on down the line or as you go to film,

296
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: the director is the tour for the most part. I

297
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: mean there's pleased shift, you know, producer power struggles and whatnot,

298
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: but it's the director who who drives the ship. Now,

299
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 1: the difference here is that in neither medium are neither

300
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 1: medium is really calibrated for like a superstar writer like

301
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: that's like not a real that's that's a tough thing.

302
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 1: And it makes me think of sports, like I think

303
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: with Jory in the relationship, I have no idea what

304
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 1: happened there. I have empathy, I think for I mean,

305
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,439
Speaker 1: I understand when you're adapting stuff, the realities of stuff

306
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 1: has to change at the same time, Like it's hard

307
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 1: when you have the touchstone guy who means so much

308
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 1: to the story, you want to keep him worded. And

309
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 1: it reminds me of sports, you know, Like I think

310
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 1: that a lot of being a coach of like a

311
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,560
Speaker 1: sports team is not necessarily drawing up like these incredible

312
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,359
Speaker 1: plays or managing what to do coming out of timeouts

313
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: or keeping track of fouls. It's like management of personalities.

314
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 1: And I think with George, you've just got to manage

315
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,439
Speaker 1: him like some You've got to be like, he's like

316
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: the star player, he's like Lebron right, and so you

317
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 1: just got to make sure he's somehow, some way. The

318
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: job is like not just the shot list and the

319
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,360
Speaker 1: production and the locations, it's like, how, what's george mood?

320
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 1: What's a feeling? Today's his what's his mood today? What's

321
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: his mind? Exactly? And so I don't know that that

322
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: didn't happen. All I'm saying is I think that that's

323
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,360
Speaker 1: that's a big part of it, and that's the way

324
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,880
Speaker 1: I read a lot of that. It's sad that the

325
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 1: relationships has moved to that level, especially because it's damaging

326
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: to the project, which I think, yeah, and I know

327
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 1: and I think now is going to get is going

328
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 1: to be watched through filtered lenses by probably a large

329
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 1: segment of the fan base because they, yeah, and and

330
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 1: the writers who worked really hard on it are going

331
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 1: to get blamed for not understanding the vision and when

332
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,920
Speaker 1: that's not when that's not how the business works either,

333
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 1: that's not exactly. So I feel bad for for everybody.

334
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 4: The YouTube slap his fear is going to be all

335
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 4: over season three. You know, George wouldn't have wanted this.

336
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 4: George would have gone a different direction. This wasn't George's vision,

337
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera, and that just hurts the property ultimately.

338
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 2: It's also not usually actually about representing what George would

339
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 2: have wanted. Like you said, YouTube slop discourse, rage bait.

340
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: I think it's a shame because, as we know, I'm

341
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 3: a huge House of the Dragon fan.

342
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 2: I thought season two was unbelievable. Love. I love the

343
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 2: changes that they've made because I do think that you

344
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 2: need to make them to make the show hit. In

345
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,959
Speaker 2: the same way, I am interested to see what happens

346
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 2: in season three and how different it is. But you

347
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 2: know what the good thing is, as the Hollywood Report

348
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 2: article kind of said, like at some point George was

349
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 2: brought back on. We haven't talked about it yet, but

350
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 2: hopefully this is like two big guys with big thoughts

351
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 2: and they can work it out, you know, because that's

352
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: two of the biggest creatives in the game. So I'm

353
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 2: interested to see if there can be a piece reckoning

354
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 2: or olive branch before season three comes out.

355
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,199
Speaker 1: And also, you know, one of the things that was

356
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 1: in the Hollywood Reporter article that was notable to me

357
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: and I haven't seen too many people discuss was the

358
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 1: fact that the big dragon battle that it seemed like

359
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: we're were leading up to in last season of House

360
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 1: the Dragon didn't happen, got pushed to the next season.

361
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: And that was an HBO call. That was a budget call.

362
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 1: That wasn't the showrunner call or anything like that. That

363
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 1: was HBO saying, we're spending a lot of fucking money here,

364
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: can we do this next season? And that was the

365
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 1: thing that the show got killed for. So, you know,

366
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: these are complicated, but it's not on the fans not

367
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 1: to understand the ins and outs of TV production like

368
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: all the time, and it's you know, kind of our

369
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: job to try and communicate that stuff. But that part

370
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: I found I found interesting because that was something the

371
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 1: show really got killed for. Was like, I thought, where's

372
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: the battle? I thought we were gonna lead up to

373
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 1: the whole and I get it. That said, I'm sure

374
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 1: the next season will be wall to wall. Let's take

375
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: a quick break and let's talk about the themes of

376
00:20:52,080 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 1: the first episode of The Night of the Seventh Kick. Yeah, Iraq,

377
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: we are that watching this episode. The theme that rose

378
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: to my mind most kind of obviously was that this

379
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: is an episode about an outsider, about a person who

380
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: is experiencing for the first time, his hand around the

381
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: grip of power. He's experienced it from you know, next

382
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: to the person with his hand on the sword for

383
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: many years now, but he's not actually had his hand

384
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: around the sword and he's not used to it. And

385
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: we see that in a bunch of different scenes told

386
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: through a bunch of different characters. But let's talk about

387
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: that because we open with Dunk talking about out how

388
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: he his mentor, Sir Arland, has rudely died on him,

389
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: leaving him now as the sole inheritor of his very

390
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 1: meager legacy and also of his title of Night. And

391
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: it's clear that he doesn't, you know, whatever Sir Arln

392
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: gave him, he did not give him what to do next,

393
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: because he has no idea. Do I sell the horses,

394
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: Do I go to a big town, do I you know,

395
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: do I do I become a self sword? What do

396
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: I do? I don't know what to do? And it

397
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: makes him so nervous that he takes a very juicy shit.

398
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. You're how does the theme of

399
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: the Outsider strike you? And how do we think Dunk

400
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: is doing as a as a as a Knight in

401
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: the opening episode of this show, Rosie, he's doing amazing.

402
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 2: Let's let's support the boy, the big boy. He just

403
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: wants to eat a pastry. No j I love that

404
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 2: this was your big take because you know what really

405
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: this it's so different tonally, but I feel like, just emotionally,

406
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: this episode really hit me in the same way as

407
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: you know the first Like I know, twenty minutes of

408
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: the story of the monster in Frankenstein almost where Dunk

409
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: is just yeah, he doesn't know what to do.

410
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 3: He can do, that's how much he loves him, and

411
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 3: he loves him so much.

412
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: But I love this notion of like we see Dunk

413
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: in all these spaces where he has no idea how

414
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 2: to act, and they do a great job of not

415
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: making it the obvious kind of thaw like fish out

416
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: of water comedy, but like Dunk eating that pastry in

417
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: the tent and not knowing that he had to essentially

418
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: make up like a lie or a reason to be there.

419
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: His honesty, his rawness is just dunkness, his.

420
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 3: Kind of unwashed, un brainwashed by society.

421
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: He's just like I just wanted some food.

422
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 3: You know.

423
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: There's like an honesty to him that I think is

424
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: very appealing in the machinations of Game of Thrones, so

425
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: to me that his outside of nature also gives him

426
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: like a moral quality that I enjoy rooting for.

427
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love his first interactions with other people, namely

428
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: this stable boy young stable boy Egg and just like

429
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: you could see him even experimenting with his posture like okay,

430
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: how does a stand how does a powerful guy address

431
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: a less powerful person, and he's and here we see

432
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: him calling on basically his experiences with Sir Arlen, which

433
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: were constant threats of physical violence in the form of

434
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: clouds are of the head. But I also found it

435
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: very winning, and I think the one to speak more

436
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: about this proximity to power. I was very struck by

437
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: the moment where he sees this drunk in the inn say,

438
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, don't stay away from me, don't look at me,

439
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: and throw down a gold dragon and walk away. The

440
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: innkeeper's not around. He stares at the coin. He could

441
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: take it, he doesn't, and then and we know he's

442
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: got zero money, none, because the true night wouldn't steal.

443
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: A true knight wouldn't steal, right, that's his right. His

444
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: perception of this is, I never saw Sir Arland steel.

445
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm not stealing. That's not what it's right. But he

446
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: has to tip the stable boy when he leaves, and

447
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: he has on it. Does he have three coins? Does

448
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: he have three coppers? Maybe? Does he have two? He

449
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: might only have the one, and he gives this boy

450
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: his only copper, throws it on the ground, because that

451
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: again proximity to power is like, that's probably the best

452
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: that the lords that he has come into contact with

453
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: would do. They wouldn't put in your hand, They'd throw

454
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: it on the fucking ground. So he does that and

455
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: seeing the kids like really a copper responder, or at

456
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: least what he perceives to be that he says, listen,

457
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: I know you're going to pick it up later, and

458
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, don't don't give me that look, but also

459
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: is trying to hide himself, like how hard it was

460
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: to part with that only coin.

461
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: I thought that was.

462
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: An incredible and very subtle scene. Any thoughts on that.

463
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: I love the fact that at every point we are

464
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: learning about what it is to be a person who

465
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: lives in like flea Bottom, but not from the perspective

466
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: of them being told what to do or being a

467
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 2: tool in someone else's game as we have seen before,

468
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: or some part of someone else's agenda. I think what's

469
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: really interesting here is getting to see Dunk make those

470
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 2: choices on his own. And what is appealing and you know,

471
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: endearing to us is he is making choices that seem

472
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: to be for the great good. And I think something

473
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: that I really am excited to talk about a little

474
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: bit with this, and it touches back on what a

475
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: Boo was talking about and Jason talking about the clouting

476
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: of the ear and everything. I actually think that that

477
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: is going to be leading us into something a little

478
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,959
Speaker 2: bit deeper, because if what really spoke to me and

479
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: that I found was very powerful is like Egg is

480
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: hella rude because he's not like actually a stable boy,

481
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: you know, he's like fucking Egg, So like he's just

482
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: like a kid doing what he wants. He plays on

483
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: the truck and you know what he gets on that

484
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: night he gets on this night's horse. He does not know, Dunk.

485
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: He knows he's probably not like proper night he can tell,

486
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: but he gets on that night's horse. He puts on

487
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: all of his armor.

488
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 3: There is another world where he's dead, Like the wrong

489
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: night comes in there, you got on his shit.

490
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: He's like not necessarily a night night.

491
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 3: He's more of like a king's god kind of vibe,

492
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: you know, the egg the aggie night.

493
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: But instead Dunk never even clouts him. Dunk remembers how

494
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 2: bad it is to be hit, and he never hits it.

495
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: He always just kind of threatens him lightly and then

496
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: changes his ways. That to me is also very powerful

497
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: and tells me a lot about how he experienced that,

498
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 2: and while it meant a lot to him that, you know,

499
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: the guy who raised himself out and told him, hey,

500
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 2: I'll never hit you unless you need it, he really

501
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: recalls that betrayal of that not being the case. And

502
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: I think that now that has shaped too hears and

503
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 2: I just love this kind of different version of masculinity

504
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 2: than what we have seen before in a Game of

505
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: Thrones show, which is Dunk figuring out his own masculinity

506
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: by creating a friendship with a younger man who is

507
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: he thinks is less, has less status than him, and

508
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 2: he's also having to learn how to then treat someone

509
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: well who has less status than him while learning how

510
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: to be a knight. I just think there's so much juicy,

511
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: emotional shit there. If that is the kind of storytelling

512
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: that you like, so for me, hit hit yeah, And.

513
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: For me, it's absolutely the kind of storytelling that I like,

514
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: so certainly Dunk is a highlight for me. I think

515
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 4: Peter Claffey was just the perfect casting for this role.

516
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 4: Throughout this whole episode, there were many moments where I

517
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 4: wanted to just hug Dunk and just tell him that

518
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 4: it was gonna be okay, and that he's going to

519
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 4: figure it out and it's all right. And I think

520
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 4: a particular moment that really stood out to me as

521
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: Dunk being the outsider and trying to come into an

522
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 4: insider's game and cosplay as a night is when he's

523
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: talking to the steward and he's like, put me in

524
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 4: the games. I can do it, and I'm not gonna lose.

525
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 4: Don't don't worry about I'm not fine.

526
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lose.

527
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 4: I don't worry about the fine. I'm not gonna lose. Look,

528
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 4: I have the sword. I was knighted, trust me. And

529
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: when he's rejected, I found it really sweet that even

530
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 4: the steward was like, I know, this guy's like probably

531
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 4: lying to me, but if you can just like have

532
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: someone else prove it, then I'll let him play. And

533
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 4: like the steward didn't have to go out of his

534
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 4: way to do that for Dunk. But I think Dunk's

535
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 4: honesty and naivety honestly open open doors for him in

536
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 4: ways that it doesn't for other nights.

537
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: I love that.

538
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: I think that there's also you know, thinking about the

539
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: power play here and everybody in this story and in

540
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: this world thinking about themselves in a very set power hierarchy.

541
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: I also think there's a world in which the steward

542
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: is thinking, ooh, it's not often I get some leverage

543
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: on a night. If this guy is more often than

544
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: a knight owes me a favorite. I love that. It

545
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: could be nice, right, it could be nice if this guy,

546
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: maybe I'll do this guy is solid, because maybe then

547
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: he'll owe me one. He'll be in that, he'll be

548
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: in the tournament, he'll be topnobbing with knights and lords

549
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: and et cetera. This guy doesn't look like much, but

550
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: maybe having him in my debt.

551
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: Could be good, yea, Jason, because also aboos. Something else

552
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: you'd pointed out that I love about the show is

553
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: kind of understanding how the small folk actually interact with

554
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: each other. We get to see him with the courtsans,

555
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: and they kind of talk to him in a totally

556
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: different way than we've ever seen before because they are

557
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: usually interacting.

558
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: Like a collide. Almost yeah, almost like he's like an annoy.

559
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: It's like when you work at a restaurant and you

560
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: are a waiter and they're like the waitresses, right, and

561
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: he's like the bus boy. That's basically how they talk. Damn,

562
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: it's like he's like your annoying little brother and maybe

563
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: he's cool, but and I think that kind of conversation

564
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: and interaction, And like you said, Jason, what are the

565
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: deals that are made between the small folk to get

566
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: a favor or a tiny step up that don't mean

567
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: a dragon ending war? Like what is it like to

568
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: make those deals and play within that political playground but

569
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: on this tiny scale of just how it affects your

570
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: day to day life rather than the entirety of the

571
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: seven kingdoms? That's so interesting.

572
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk more about those quarter Sans because I

573
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: love them. I really enjoyed that scene. And you want

574
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: to talk about proximity to power, there's an intimate proximity

575
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: right with their line of work, and they make at

576
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: one point, one of them makes the you know, makes

577
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: this through line to Dunk and basically saying, don't we

578
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: knights the competitors in this tournament and us the courtisions,

579
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: don't we both entertain with our bodies essentially on paraphrasing,

580
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: but basically says that. And I think it's a Dunk

581
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: takes it in stride, and I think their read of

582
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: him is really good off the bat. You know, you

583
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: talk about a world in which you read of a

584
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: man is going to be of paramount importance. They read

585
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: him really well because he takes this really well. But

586
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: it's also a comparison that I think would fall flat,

587
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: perhaps dangerously flat, if you said that to like surf

588
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: foss Away the right, you know, not the cousin the

589
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, or if you said it even to Sir Lionel.

590
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: He might find it entertaining, but I think he might

591
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 1: be insulted by it. What did you think of this week?

592
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: Because I thought it was I thought it's a line

593
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: that I it's a kind of comparison that I actually

594
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: think about a lot as a sports fan.

595
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: Hmm.

596
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: But it's one that I think is uncomfortable for a

597
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: lot of people.

598
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: I agree, And I think it's actually another great part

599
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: of the show, which is showing how you can translate

600
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: modern conversations into the period of the space, because they

601
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: make a great point and it is true, especially in

602
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: the fact that you know in Game of Thrones Land,

603
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: we know that in wester Ros, if you're a sex worker,

604
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: you are very likely to get beaten to death with

605
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: like a fucking you know, table leg So it's very

606
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: similar to being a knight who is out there breaking

607
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: his body every day. And I love that this is

608
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: a conversation because in real life, you know, pro sex

609
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: work circles, there are a lot of conversations about whether

610
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: or not, you know, destroying your body working in an

611
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: Amazon factory is any more or less dangerous or worthwhile

612
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: than you know, using your body to have, you know,

613
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: do sex work. So I think there is just so

614
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: much interesting smart writing in this show show, and I

615
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: think we're going to see Dunk collect these little things

616
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: in the back of his mind in a way he

617
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: doesn't even realize, because obviously he's very embarrassed and impressed

618
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 2: and blushing when he meets these women. They're very funny,

619
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: they're very forthright, so he doesn't take it in stride

620
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: as a lesson. But I think we're going to get

621
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: to see Dunk maybe take on those lessons and become

622
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: a bit more of a voice for these people who

623
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: haven't necessarily had it before, even if his voice is

624
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: being a big tour guy who knocks rich knights off there,

625
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: you know, posts at the Tawny, which is kind of

626
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: what I'm hoping for a boo.

627
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: Any thoughts on our courtisans.

628
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you read on it. Jason. Your interpretation

629
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 4: of what the Cortison said is spot on, because I

630
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 4: would imagine any other night would, first of all, before

631
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 4: even thinking about it deeply, would simply be offended that

632
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 4: Cortizon would compare Why how dare you compare me to

633
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 4: what you do? You know you are beneath me talking

634
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 4: about social stratification, right like cortisons and.

635
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: Nights for reet a day.

636
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: You know you can't.

637
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 4: Compare my job to your job. That's insulting. But I think,

638
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 4: even thinking about it more deeply, I think a traditional

639
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 4: night in this system, someone who is a lord, who's landed,

640
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 4: who has wealth and a castle, would imagine that their

641
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 4: job is about them. I am bringing honor to my name,

642
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 4: to my family. I'm out here on the court. This

643
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 4: is about me. You are all cheering for me, and

644
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 4: the cortis on here is saying, well, the reality is

645
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 4: that the opposite is happening. You are putting your body

646
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 4: on the line for my entertainment. I'm watching you get

647
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 4: knocked off your horse and your helmet get beat in,

648
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 4: and that's fun for me. So all you're really doing

649
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 4: is putting your body on display, and so I find

650
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 4: that really interesting. I'm glad you brought her up, Jason.

651
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that, Jason. I have to ask you

652
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 2: if there is a canonical reason that every time we

653
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: have seen a sex wy chern Game of Throne she

654
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: has red hair?

655
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: Is this like aa? Is this like a face? Are

656
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: they just like a wig? Like?

657
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: I think that just like Hey, saucy redheaded, I.

658
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: Think it's just become a thing over time. Like I mean,

659
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, much like much like Marvel Comics love for

660
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: the red haired main partner, you know, main love interest.

661
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: I think it's just become a thing over time. Okay,

662
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: speaking of proximity to power, we get an incredible, probably

663
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: the most lofty view of this proximity, when Sir Duncan

664
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: meets Lord Lionel Barrathian in his tent, taken there by

665
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: a young fossil way to go get some grub they

666
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: walk in. Their immediate introduction to Lionel is he steals

667
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: the entire tent because he's had quote a profound thought,

668
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: And this is you want to talk about power. Power

669
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: is any time in this world. Power is anytime the

670
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: most simple thought comes into your mind that you feel

671
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: like maybe that's worth sharing. You stop everybody in their

672
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: tracks and make them fucking listen to you. And then

673
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: he tells this his profound thought is, jousting was invented

674
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: four thousand years ago. How do we know that it

675
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: was actually men that invented it and not the gods?

676
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: Because could men have come up with this? He really

677
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: struggles to put that idea. He's like gets lost in

678
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: the forest of his own mind. There he's very drunk,

679
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: and then he's just like, fuck it, one hundred gold dragons,

680
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: whoever can you know? Knock me off my horse? And

681
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: then seeing Dunk is like, you know again, here's this

682
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: power of just like I'm in my tent, I'm a

683
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: great lord. This guy interests me. Call him over and

684
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm now gonna just ask him like, okay, what's your

685
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: Do you have a gift for me? Like what is

686
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: your deal? Like why are you here? Man? And this

687
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: is it's it's a The whole thing is wonderful because

688
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: first we see essentially Lionel get the measure of Dunk

689
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out who you know, what is

690
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: your tall? Do you get punched a lot? Why are

691
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: you here. You're not here wanting anything from me other

692
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: than the free food of the tent. That's very interesting,

693
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: Like I'm so bored all the time these people wanting stuff.

694
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: I want to kind of know more about you. And

695
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: then eventually it turns to Dunk being able to ask

696
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: Lionel about night stuff. What's it like to fight? Like

697
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: is it you? Were you ever scared? Like how did

698
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: you manage to go out there and and compete your

699
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: first time or fight in that battle? And am I

700
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: do you think I can do it? And I just

701
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: loved the entire sequence and I have to call out

702
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: the Stanis Barathi and easter egg in which which in

703
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: which Lionel is like, you know, just talking about heretics.

704
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: It is like, you know, saying it's like what did

705
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: he asks? Is his like right hand manly? What do

706
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: they do to heretics? And guys like burn them? That's right,

707
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: burn them? And it's like such a lighthearted callback that

708
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: you didn't like, you a boo. I didn't register until

709
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: my second or third Yeah, you wash, that's blake. But Leah,

710
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: let's talk about this proximity to power. Lionel Brathy in

711
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: a true wielder of power and dunk a novice wielded

712
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: wielder of power trying to figure out how to act

713
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: in a place such as this.

714
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 2: Boo, Have you ever really seen in general fantasy before? Like,

715
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: I found this moment to just be very unusual because

716
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: there is a deep connection here that is absolutely erased

717
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: of any of those social stratifications, just simply through like

718
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: curiosity and in its own way, that is Lord Brathian's power, right,

719
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: because he's so powerful that if he says this person

720
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: is worthy of talking to, then you have to respect him.

721
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 2: But I just found the whole connection between them, the

722
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: friendship element, the flirtatious dancing, it felt very different to

723
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: any ways we've ever seen, like a small person and

724
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: you know, a royal interact and fantasy the same with

725
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: the class structure in general. Is this Does that feel

726
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 2: a little bit more unique to you because you definitely

727
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: read a lot more fantasy than I do. But I

728
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: found that to be quite different. It does.

729
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, Honestly, I was waiting the first time I watched

730
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 4: this episode throughout this whole scene, I was waiting for

731
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: the shoot to drop. I was like, right, okay, so

732
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: Lionel's going to do something crazy, right, Dunk's going to

733
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 4: get in trouble. That's what is expected to happen here.

734
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 4: That is what lords in the Game of Throne universe

735
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 4: do to, you know, nobody's like Duncan. And then it

736
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: doesn't happen, and in fact, it becomes a really sweet

737
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: scene of connection between these two guys, which I found

738
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 4: really really fascinating, And I think this whole Lionel sequence

739
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 4: kind of encapsulates both of the big idea as we've

740
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 4: been talking about, the insider outsider and also the idea

741
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 4: of the perspective of the small folk, because Duncan gets

742
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,959
Speaker 4: insider information right from a real deal night, a real

743
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 4: deal lord. Lionel imparts some really sweet wisdom. He's like, hey,

744
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 4: the God's made you tall. Stand up man, stand straight up, Like,

745
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: don't slout, You're Dunk in the tall. You're Dunk in

746
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 4: the tall, take up space. You're a Knight, aren't you.

747
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 4: I really liked that part, and that's sort of the

748
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 4: insider Night's perspective versus the outsider, fake knight, Sir Duncan

749
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: trying to find his way. And then the other moment

750
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: that really stood out to me was at one point

751
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 4: they're talking about nightly warfare, and Lionel tells Dunk that

752
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 4: it's a great honor to test yourself against a worthy foe,

753
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 4: even if you fail. And Dunk has the opportunity here

754
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 4: to really comment on that social stratification and the idea

755
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 4: that like, your world is not my world, and he says,

756
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 4: that's easy for you to say. You have an and

757
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 4: inheritance one loss, and I won't be able to ransom

758
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 4: my own horseback. And what is a nice without what

759
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 4: is a knight without his horse? And this bout is

760
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 4: fun and games for many of the wealthier knights here,

761
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 4: but it is life and death for someone like Duncan.

762
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 4: And that's sort of the reality of you know, social

763
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 4: class in the real world.

764
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: That's a great I love that exchange as well, and

765
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: I on rewatch, I was I really noticed what comes

766
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: before that because it opens that exchange opens with Barathian

767
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: telling Dunk this story about some battle that he had

768
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: taken part with on like that was at sea and

769
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: this you know, the waves were rollicking and the salt

770
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: spray and his face and Dunk asks him, weren't you afraid?

771
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: And you know, fight on water like that, and you

772
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: know you knew. It's clear from the implication is that

773
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: this was and much earlier in Lionel's career as a leader.

774
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: And Lionel basically says, you know, within a man, there

775
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: are many men. And the Stormlanders, now I'm paraphrasing, have

776
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: a legacy, you know, the Brathians have a specific legacy

777
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: of warfare and achievement. They had done it. Therefore I

778
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: could do it because I looked at all these people

779
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: who had come before me, who bore the name, who

780
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: live in this region, the kind of culture we have,

781
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: and I understood that they could do it. I could

782
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: do it because they did it. And what Dunk is

783
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: essentially saying, beyond his response of like you have it,

784
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: I'm broken, Like if I lose this horse, is all

785
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 1: I have is there's a deeper like there's a deeper

786
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: friction there that Dunk can't quite put his finger on

787
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: in the moment, but you can feel him grappling with

788
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: which is I don't have that. I don't I only

789
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: have Sir Arlnd to show me that such things are possible.

790
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: And I never saw him compete. He told me the stories,

791
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: but I don't actually know what it's like. I can't

792
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: call on this generations and centuries of example to strengthen

793
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: my hand, Like I have to just basically be the

794
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: first person that ever did it. I can't say, oh, well,

795
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: my father did it, his great grandfather did it, and

796
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: you know, the first Barathian did it. I don't have

797
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 1: that beyond that, like I don't have the I don't

798
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: forget the money, forget the resources. I have the title,

799
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: But the person that I'm basing this entire thing on,

800
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure if what he's given me is right.

801
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,479
Speaker 1: And you can feel him struggling with that, and in fact,

802
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: I would say, not a spoiler, but that's his struggle.

803
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: The entire series too, is like, how do I know

804
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: what Arlen told me is is right? And now let's

805
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: go to these cutaways. I find them very interesting for

806
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: a few reasons, Okay, the first being, this is a

807
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: story that is we understand is told from Dunk's perspective,

808
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: and so when we cut away, I'm thinking, for instance,

809
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: when he finally corners Dundarian and is like, h Sarlon,

810
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: he uh, he fought in your he forted your state,

811
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: he took an hour for you. You don't remember him. And

812
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: then we see that moment where like Sir Giera pulled up,

813
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: So is that what happened or is that Dunk's perception

814
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: of what happened based on what Sir Arlend told him.

815
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: I think it must be the second, right.

816
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like it's about everything he is experiencing

817
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 2: is his version of it. So he's like it was

818
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: the most heroic thing and did da da? And then

819
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: obviously Venerian's like, well, people get wounded for me all

820
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: the time, like who fucking cares? But to Dunk, it's

821
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: that he knows the story, the legend, And I think

822
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 2: as well, there is something very relatable and appealing about

823
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: that because also, like often that's how we feel about

824
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: our parents, is like they just unleash us in the

825
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: world and we're like, well, what do I do now?

826
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: Like now I have to pay rent and like have

827
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: a job and just kind of continue. And I think

828
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: that's another thing I'm loving and I feel like is

829
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: hitting with a lot of people and people outside of

830
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: the Game of Thrones universe, is these conversations and these

831
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: flashbacks and the different ways that they're using emotion and

832
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 2: storytelling are actually appealing to people outside of the usual

833
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: space I've seen people coming to this as a coming

834
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: of age story rather than a fantasy piece, And I

835
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: think that that all of the things we're talking about,

836
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 2: but especially these notions of kind of like how we

837
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: make choices and what our legacy is, and whether having

838
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 2: a family name matters, and whether having a family matters,

839
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: and whether they're following a traditional route that you're expected

840
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: to follow. That is a perennially interesting story and probably

841
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: why you're wrote this book in the first place. You know,

842
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: these are themes that hit and to me, I am

843
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: just loving following that specific part of Dunk's journey, and

844
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 2: also I want to know what we're going to learn

845
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: more about Sir Alan, Like, was there things he told

846
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: him that were true? Were the things that he told

847
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 2: him that weren't true? Does it? Matt do? Like is

848
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: the point that Dunk being the night is the point?

849
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 3: Like?

850
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: I just think all of that stuff is really interesting.

851
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: A boo, Where do you see that kind of part

852
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 2: of the conflict setting us up as we head into

853
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 2: the rest of the season.

854
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 4: Well, uh, Jason, I want to give you credit. I

855
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 4: might have to go rewatch the episode again with your

856
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 4: perspective in mind. Looking at the cutaways as purely Dunk's

857
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 4: memories of his past with Sir Arlen, and not necessarily

858
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 4: cutaways that are actual flashbacks to the truth, because that

859
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 4: version of the cutaways didn't work for me. But I

860
00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 4: really like the idea of them being somewhat falsified mythologized

861
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 4: to memories of a child growing up with exactly nobody

862
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 4: knight In, traveling around west Rows uh and learning what

863
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 4: he can from somebody who, ultimately, in the grander history

864
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 4: of west Rows will not be remembered by anything.

865
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that. I think that there is a

866
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: very subtle, unreliable narrator y thing going on here, and

867
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: it's and it's subtly layered because Dunk is his own

868
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: I think unreliable narrator in a certain respect. It's again,

869
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 1: it's her perspective, it's his memories, he remembering everything correctly.

870
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: And secondarily, well, let's we'll save our judgment for when

871
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: we see more. But I think it's quite reasonable to

872
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: assume that Sir Arlen was not a reliable narrator life.

873
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 3: I feel like Dunk, he just told him all these

874
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 3: stories and we're not gonna know.

875
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm nuts, it's gonna be a night, but it's gonna

876
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: be a big friction, right like did he yeah? Did

877
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: he was he a knight? Did he claim he wasn't?

878
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: Did he knight? Sir Duncan? Did he deal all these

879
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: things he said he did? It's unclear, and certainly it's

880
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: unclear right now. And I think that I think in

881
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: that that conversation with Lionel, what Dunk is too afraid

882
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: to talk about is when he's saying, like, can I

883
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: do it? Do you think I could do it? Like, no, no,

884
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: you can't, absolutely not, but that measurement, and and I

885
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: think that I think what he's too afraid to ask

886
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: is like, what if it's all what if it's all Hey,

887
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: what if it's all fake? What if I what if

888
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: I learned the wrong things? What if this guy told

889
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: me the wrong stuff? What if everything he told me

890
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 1: was is incorrect? Because I can't get a secondary source

891
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: to confirm anything he's ever done to this point, and

892
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: so like, what if it's all what if it's all

893
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: fake and it's just me out there? How you know?

894
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: Can I do it? And I think Lionel's response, I

895
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: think is both brutal and actually like really up to

896
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: like actually really meaningful for Dunk's life, which is, listen,

897
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: you're not despite what you say to the clerk when

898
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: you registered for the games, you're not gonna fucking win

899
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, But figuring out where you stack

900
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: up against true opponents, like, you know, competent, powerful opponents.

901
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: That's part of what's great about being a Knight. Now.

902
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 1: Of course he's coming from the perspective of like endless

903
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: coffers of money and impregnable castle and all that stuff,

904
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: but it's kind of it is true, like if you

905
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: want to be in this world, you're gonna have to

906
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: measure yourself and that means getting used to losing at times. Yeah,

907
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: I just love this exchange. The Lionel stuff is like,

908
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: I think it's so it's the best stuff in the

909
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: episode by far. It's so good.

910
00:50:59,160 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 3: Yes.

911
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: Finally, let's talk about the final moment of proximity to power,

912
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: a true double outsider moment question, and it's when Dunk

913
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,959
Speaker 1: returns back to his campsite and finds that the egg

914
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: is there, an eggs cooking a fish and eggs kept

915
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: things up. Well, he isn't stolen from everything. Looks great,

916
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: Canary in his like I'm a knight teapot double teapot stance,

917
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: like with his cake thrown over his shoulder. Yeah, sir

918
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: Duncan Dunk at the top, Yeah yeah yeah. And they

919
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 1: sit down together and share this moment and it's hard

920
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: to it's quite obvious. I don't know, and rewatch that,

921
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: like the person who should be the most nervous Egg

922
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,280
Speaker 1: is not, and the person who should be the most

923
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: confident with his status and power and privileged is not.

924
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: Talk about this scene because it's clearly going to be

925
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 1: the thing that launches us since the rest of the series.

926
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: I think this chemistry casting is amazing. I think if

927
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: you don't get Egg right, that's a really hard character

928
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 2: to get right. And Jason, I think that we are

929
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: so past even how good this casting is. And that

930
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: is why Killed This scene works so well because you

931
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: never question it, like it shouldn't be that way. Dunk is,

932
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: you know whatever, six seven, Like for the kids, he's

933
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: very tall, you.

934
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 3: Know, like that's I guess I actually can't even take

935
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 3: credit for that because I was talking recently about how

936
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 3: I dated a guy who was six seven and then

937
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 3: I got six seven. So now whenever I bring up

938
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 3: a height, I'm like Okay, there's a chance.

939
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, but but but.

940
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: He's very tall, he's very big. He should be imposing.

941
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: We know he's a nice guy who loves eating pastries.

942
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: Egg does not technically know that if he's just a

943
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 2: stable boy. We see here the Egg also has skills

944
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: that Dunk does not have. Egg is able to do washing,

945
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: Egg is able to make food. Egg is able to

946
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 2: make a fire. There is a power dynamic here that

947
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 2: clearly shifts. And what I love about it is that,

948
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: for once, it doesn't feel like a malicious or dangerous agenda.

949
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: It feels like two outsiders trying to kind of navigate like, Okay, well,

950
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 2: what do you know and what do you not know?

951
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 2: And how can we maybe work alongside this? It also

952
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: obviously sets up a Ducks Dexter Sault and Cell who's

953
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 2: so good as Egg? As kind of are you know

954
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: the brains in the brains and brawn double bill kind

955
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 2: of twenty journey we're gonna be getting. I just I

956
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: love this scene. Like I said, the so the luckies

957
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: ours are alone, you know, has really inspired something in people.

958
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: I just I thought it was magic and Jason, I

959
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 2: think you're right. It again might not seem like a

960
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 2: big scene, might seem like a cozy sequence by the fire,

961
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: but if you dig in a little bit more, I

962
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 2: think it really is going to establish a lot of

963
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: where those two characters are going.

964
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: Aboo.

965
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, Rosie, I agree with you completely. I think you

966
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 4: said it beautifully. This was the perfect scene to end

967
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 4: this first episode on. And I haven't watched ahead. I've

968
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 4: read the book, so I generally know where things are

969
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 4: going to go, but I haven't watched the show yet.

970
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 4: But I think the casting is perfect, the chemistry is perfect. Egg.

971
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 4: I do think is an extremely challenging character cast and

972
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 4: they've absolutely nailed it. I think Jason on the official

973
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 4: pod I was listening earlier and Iris said that Egg

974
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 4: was maybe the first audition tape that they watched, and

975
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 4: they went through so many other people and eventually just

976
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 4: circled back to Eventually they just circled circled back to Dexter.

977
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 4: So I think they absolutely crushed it, and just a sweet,

978
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 4: sweet scene to end on. I really really loved that

979
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 4: the final moments of this episode were about the shooting star.

980
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 4: It just establishes their Relationshi Chip and the tone of

981
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 4: the show beautifully.

982
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 1: It's also like, you know you speaking of being an

983
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: outsider and not knowing how to act in a position

984
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: of power. I just love that He's another night would

985
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: be like, would not ask for the explanation. So how

986
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: is it? How does it work? If we saw it?

987
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: Do we get it? That's ours or what? Yeah? We

988
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: share it with her?

989
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

990
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: I loved it too. Uh. Let's leave with our favorite

991
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: moments from the episode A boot for.

992
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 4: Me, I think it was the moment where Dunk is

993
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 4: talking to the courtisans and he just says, do you

994
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 4: have to make fun of me? And my heart just

995
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 4: ached so much for Duncan in that moment and seeing

996
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 4: the courtisans immediately shift right. They're going from like, yes,

997
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 4: we're teasing our younger brother and like annoying the shit

998
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 4: out of him to suddenly like, wait, you are our

999
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 4: younger brother though, and we're all on the same team.

1000
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 4: Let's let us actually talk to you. I find I

1001
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 4: found that shift really impactful, and I love that moment.

1002
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: Rosie, Yeah, to talk about when we haven't talked about

1003
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: yet A boo fantastic pick, by the way. I just

1004
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: loved the first interaction when Dunk is in talking to

1005
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,959
Speaker 2: the innkeeper and we get that it's very on the nose,

1006
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 2: but that kind of like, well, guess what, the tawny

1007
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 2: has never made eggs cheaper. I think that is a

1008
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: good line in the sand of Hey, even if you're

1009
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: here for the fantasy, for the cozy lord of the

1010
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 2: Rings adventure aspect, we are also talking about a world

1011
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: where the wealth divide is unbelievable, and there are people

1012
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 2: here who enable all of the beautiful costumes an incredible mummery,

1013
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: and the people who build the fucking places where people

1014
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 2: are doing jousting like we're gonna get to hear from them,

1015
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: and that to me is so exciting, and so I

1016
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: just want to I think they did a good job

1017
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 2: there of saying, hey, here's our little steak in the ground,

1018
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 2: and if you keep watching, you're gonna get more of that. Jason,

1019
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: what about you?

1020
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: For me, it's it's the kind of back to back

1021
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: moments where he looks at the golden dragon on the

1022
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: table with like awe and not greed, but but kind

1023
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: of a longing of I will never have I will

1024
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,479
Speaker 1: never hold anywhere close to that much money in my hand,

1025
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: that kind of look, and then that contrasted with a

1026
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: few moments later when he's you know, leaving the stable

1027
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: and he's on his horse and he and he's like,

1028
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: fuck a night. A night would a true knight, an

1029
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: honorable night, would would give this stable boy a little

1030
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: something for his trouble. Like he did everything that I

1031
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: asked him to do for the most part, and like,

1032
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: my shit, and that's what a true knight would do.

1033
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: And and you could see how hard it is to

1034
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: part with the meager copper that he has, like basically

1035
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: any but it's all he has. And that moment, I

1036
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: think really carried a lot about what Dunk is, dunk struggle,

1037
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: what he's trying to do. And I thought it was

1038
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: really well done. And even even the part of him

1039
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: which feels, you know, of him just like pitching it

1040
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: into the ground and be like, yeah, I know you're

1041
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: gonna pick it up. I know you're gonna pick it

1042
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: up later. You're gonna pick it up. Like it seems

1043
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: he does it so halfheartedly mm hmm. You know, but again,

1044
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: this is Dunk carrying out what he thinks is a

1045
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: knight's duty, what a knight does, and it's it's.

1046
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 2: One of love that he says, you know, he says

1047
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 2: it because I also think he knows that if it

1048
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 2: was him and when he was a kid, and even now,

1049
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: he'd probably still scrabble up and get it. So he's

1050
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 2: also like he's saying it in a in a sassy,

1051
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: like I'm a cuing way, but he's also saying like, hey,

1052
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: do't fucking act proud like I gave you the money.

1053
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: Just pick it up like it doesn't matter, like I

1054
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: get it. And I think that duality between yeah, Dunk's

1055
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: own personal experiences and then him trying to pretend that

1056
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: he is kind of more noble, more high born, that's

1057
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 2: a really interesting duality. So great page.

1058
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and so to your point, like trying

1059
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: to connect with egg about like, hey, I get it,

1060
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, I know. It's like I get what it's

1061
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: like to have no money. Believe me, because now I

1062
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: have no money. And guess what, I don't have any

1063
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: money now either. And if you walked away, I would

1064
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: get down on my heads. And he's and picked the

1065
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: thing up, get it. Well, this was a wonderful conversation.

1066
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna We're gonna be covering a nine of the

1067
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: Seven Kingdoms all season, with two episodes a week. On

1068
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: the next episode of Extra Vision. We're breaking down the

1069
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: biggest news of the week. That's it for this episode,

1070
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: Extra Listening by x ray Vision is hosted by Jason

1071
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: steps Young and Rosie Night and is a production of

1072
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: iHeart Podcast.

1073
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

1074
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusafar.

1075
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common laurent Ian Jonathan.

1076
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: And Fay Wack. A theme song is by Brian Vasquez,

1077
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: with alternate theme songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1078
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin.

1079
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 3: Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi are discord moderator.