1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:00,640 Speaker 1: Folks. 2 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 2: Almost every day, in some days more than once, we 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 2: get either Chad Nakanishi or I get pitches from book promoters, 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 2: from publishers saying, interview this person about this book. And 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: truly ninety five percent of the time or more, we 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: don't do it because unless it's something that we think 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: fits in with the values of our show, and unless 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: it's something that piques our interest, frankly, something that we're 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: very curious about, we just don't do it. So I 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: hope you know that when we have a book author 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: on it is because we're interested in that book, or 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: we've read that book and we found that book worthy 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 2: of commendation for you. And particularly this time of year, 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: people are thinking of good gift ideas. This may be 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: one that you either read or gift or both. And 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: as long as you don't mark the book up, you 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 2: can buy it and then also mail it off. And 18 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: I can't do that because I write all over my 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: books and I make notes in the margin of what 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: I'm going. 21 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: To repeat later. 22 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: And we have just such an occasion today. The author's 23 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: name is Kevin Baker. The book is called America the 24 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: Ingenious How a Nation of Dreamers immigrants and tinkerers changed 25 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: the world. You remember we interviewed Michelle Malkin after her 26 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: book about ten tinkerers who changed the world and great stories, 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: and there's always an immigrant overtone to that. It's part 28 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: of the nature of it which makes it very interesting. Anyway, 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: Kevin is our guest, and I want to know, first 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: of all, what drove you to write this book? 31 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me, And yeah, drove me to 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: write it was actually a invitation to do so on 33 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 3: a part of my publisher, Leah Ronan at Artisan. We 34 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 3: had done a book previously. We had done the companion 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: volume for the History Channel series America The Story of Us, 36 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 3: which I like to say is you know, which I 37 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: wrote in about three months, and which I like to 38 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 3: say is maybe not the best history of the United States, 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: but it it certainly was the quickest. So that was 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of fun working with her. And 41 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: you know, she came up with this idea for things 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 3: Americans had invented, and we sat and you know, thought 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 3: about it and came up with we want to come 44 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: up with seventy six things. And I believe you, about 45 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 3: halfway through, I wish we had decided to do fifty 46 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: or something, one for every state, but it was. But 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 3: it was seventy six things, and it was a pretty 48 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 3: eclectic list. It was a lot of stuff that you 49 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 3: don't normally see in books like this, you know. I 50 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: mean there's a lot of science and a lot of 51 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 3: mechanical stuff, but there's also things about inventing cities such 52 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 3: as say Chicago, you know, the TVA and how that 53 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: changed things. You know, music, blues and jazz, which were 54 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: you know, all these things were invented by people as 55 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: well as anything else, and sometimes those are the things 56 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: that other people think of as our greatest inventions. 57 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 2: I'm guessing that you probably spent maybe not as much time, 58 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: but a considerable amount of time when you begin a 59 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: project like this to create a framework as to what 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: is you know, is jazz or the blues and invention 61 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: and those sorts of things. There probably was a lot 62 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: of framework setting. 63 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and you know, very much so. And you know, 64 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: it's a little difficult to take on things as enormous 65 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: as that in two or three pages, as we did, 66 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: but we were just trying to give an outline as 67 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 3: to how it got started. And it is interesting the 68 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: stuff that people have invented in this country collectively, you know, 69 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: over the years. One of the things we do is 70 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: the Pennsylvania long rifle, which was really something that came 71 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 3: from you know, craftsmen all up and down the frontier 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: what was then the frontier of Pennsylvania and Kentucky and 73 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: western Virginia, you know, just kind of working and reworking 74 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: these rifles to suit people on the frontier and ended 75 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: up being a major weapon in the revolution, you know, 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: really helped decide the revolution. You know. Another thing was 77 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 3: the Prairie schooner, which evolved again out of countless pioneers 78 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 3: developing this, you know, from the kind of Stova wagon 79 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: and adapting it to you know, to cover the big 80 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: distances out west. 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's clearly necessity is the mother of invention. 82 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: But there are a lot of people that had the 83 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 2: need and very few that invented. Let's start with guns. 84 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: You mentioned one from Pennsylvania, the Kentucky I don't know 85 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: if you read Chris Kyle's book Ten Guns That Changed 86 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: the World, but the Kentucky long rifle. He tells a 87 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 2: fascinating stories the first gun he profiles in that book 88 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: about how that gun gave the pioneer settler an advantage 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: over the British that were But let's let's talk about 90 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: that Pennsylvania. 91 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: Uh the gun first mentioned what was. 92 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 3: The heck of a gun and kind of a hybrid 93 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: like so much in America is, you know, both from 94 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: English and German guns. It had, you know, it could 95 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 3: be tremendously you know, well aimed. Had it was a 96 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: spiral grooved barrel there, so you could fire things with 97 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: tremendous velocity, and you could use a smaller shot because 98 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 3: it was going at this, uh this velocity, and that 99 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: made a big difference to people who didn't have access 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: to a lot of ammunition, to a lot of lead. 101 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: You could put in a smaller piece there and a 102 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 3: smaller shot and have it be just as effective. And 103 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 3: in the Revolution, Dan Morgan, who's a great character in 104 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: one of the really underrated figures from the Revolution, used 105 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: it almost in uh you know, he used it in 106 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: a real variety of ways. One military historian said, he's 107 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 3: the only commander in that war who had an original, 108 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: uh you know, strategic thought, and he used the rifle 109 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 3: to do you know, kind of in place of artillery 110 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 3: at some places, you know, you just have this withering 111 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 3: barrage from it. He used it Saratoga very strategically to 112 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 3: cut down all of the first all of the British 113 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: Indian guides, which left them kind of at sea in 114 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: this in this foreign landscape, and then to shoot down 115 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 3: their officers. And this was considered, you know, very improper 116 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: for warfare at the time, but it was incredibly effective 117 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: and it you know, helped win the Battle of Saratoga, 118 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: and that helps, you know, bring the French into the war, 119 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: and really, you know, it plays a great role in 120 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 3: deciding the war in our favor. 121 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: I guess a question I would ask throughout the course 122 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 2: of the categories we're going to go through today. 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: You know, the entirety of the world was. 124 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: Engaged in in the need to find better weapons of warfare. 125 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: How did this happen on American soil? What was it 126 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: uniquely about out the American that was inventive. 127 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: Enough to do this? 128 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: Well, it was you know, it was again one of 129 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: these things because people needed guns going west for various things, 130 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: so they needed them for shooting game. Americans, unlike people 131 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: and a lot of europe were using guns from a 132 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 3: very young age on the frontier you know, you had 133 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: you know, basically, you had boys shooting these Pennsylvania rifles. 134 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 3: They had to know how to use them, so it 135 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: became a necessity. And then the Civil War was a 136 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 3: huge step forward two. You know, the Civil War was 137 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: something that in a way took military took military tactics 138 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 3: and strategies from almost Napoleonic wars to World War One. 139 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: So you had to adjust to this as this, you know, 140 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: as this war went on, and that's when we came 141 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: up with the repeating rifle. And it's a fascinating story 142 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: which I had no idea. Apparently Lincoln was a terrific 143 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 3: shot and liked to look at weapons himself, encourage people 144 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: to send in ideas for weapons. He loved to look 145 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: at them and uh, you know, and see how they worked. 146 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: And he, you know, he had this idiot quartermaster general 147 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: who had turned down the you know, the e repeating rifle, 148 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: even after the Navy had bought it. You know, the 149 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 3: Navy had taken it, buried in sand, dug it up, 150 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: and its still fired two hundred and fifty out of 151 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty one times, and they said, no, 152 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: they didn't want people firing too rapidly, so you know. 153 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: Like some idiots to that, Kevin, hold with me for 154 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: a moment. The book is called America the Ingenious. The 155 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: author is Kevin Baker. We'll talk more with him coming up. 156 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: No Michael Berry's show. 157 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: The book is called America the Ingenious. The author is 158 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: Kevin Baker, and make a great gift, make a great 159 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: read for a number of you. If, as I am, 160 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: you are fascinated by the tinkering spirit. I'm not a tinkerer, 161 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,119 Speaker 2: I'm not an inventor. I could have never been an engineer. 162 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 2: I'm not a person with the patients of Thomas Alva 163 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: Edison or a George Westinghouse or any of the number 164 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: of great inventors in American or world history. But I 165 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 2: am fascinated by the types of individuals who do and 166 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by why so many of those happened to 167 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: do what they did on American soil in such a 168 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: brief period of time, and what factors came together. So, Kevin, 169 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: before we go to the next category, what is it 170 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: about this soil, this place, this particular You know, in 171 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 2: the compressed period of time that so many inventions came out. 172 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a number of things. I think 173 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 3: it's you know, I listen them in the beginning here. 174 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: I think it's freedom, you know, the freedom that people 175 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: had to go and invent things. You know, I think 176 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: it's immigration. It's a tremendous contribution. You know, there is 177 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: we were a doctor Isidore rob who was the founder 178 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 3: of this. He found discovered the theories that made the 179 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 3: MRI possible and won the Nobel Prize for it. And 180 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: he was an immigrant from Galicia, where he said that, 181 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: if you know, my family had stayed in Galicia, we 182 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: probably would have been you know, I probably would have 183 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: been a tailor. And in fact, he probably would have 184 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 3: been dead. You know what happened in not that many 185 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 3: years after his family immigrated to the United States. But 186 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: instead he comes up with the theory for the MRI. 187 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 3: And that's carried on by you know, three other people 188 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 3: who have fled Europe because of you know, because of 189 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: the war and the Holocaust and come to the United States. 190 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 3: They all win Nobel Prizes to furthering this this theory. 191 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,119 Speaker 3: And then finally the MRI is invented by doctor Raymond Demodian, 192 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 3: whose family had fled the Armenian genocide years before. So 193 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: this is a tremendous contribution, you know, throughout And that's 194 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: a tremendous asset we have getting all of these people, 195 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: and not just you know geniuses, no, but bringing in 196 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: say the you know, the Chinese laborers who did an 197 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 3: incredible job, you know, working their way down the mountains 198 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: of the Sierra and the Rockies and putting in these 199 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 3: you know, little nitroglycerin tubes and then you know, blowing 200 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 3: the holes that became you know, the Transcontinental Railroad. 201 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: Right, the Chinese American laborers. 202 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is you know, tremendous all the way around. 203 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 3: I think immigration is in many ways the lifeblood. So 204 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 3: that's part of it. 205 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: I think let me stop you there, Kevin, because there's 206 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: an interesting point a note in the in the book notes, 207 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: it says of the seventy six inventions that your profile 208 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: in the book, at least sixty five were created by immigrants, 209 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: and fifteen involved children of immigrants. And I'm just finishing 210 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 2: Charles Murray's book Coming Apart, and it's it's talking about 211 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: how white America slid backward from sixty to twenty ten, 212 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: or at least the working class, and one of the 213 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: things he talks about is what made America distinct was 214 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: industry or industriousness. And he goes back to Tolkville and 215 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: Tokeville talking about these Americans. All they want to do 216 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: is work. They outwork anyone. So it's as if you 217 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 2: create this this piece of dirt and you bring people 218 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: from all over the world, it really doesn't matter where 219 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 2: they're from, encourage hard work and give them the freedom 220 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: to do so, and a marketplace to sell the product 221 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: and just let it go. 222 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 3: Sure, No, that is a key thing also something you know, 223 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 3: we don't like to acknowledge all that much, but government 224 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 3: plays a key role and has again and again and 225 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 3: it has, you know, and in democracy, a government, you know, 226 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 3: should be us. But government does pick winners, and government 227 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 3: does subsidize a lot of things. Nobody was going to 228 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: lay a rail, you know, a single rail of the 229 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 3: Transcontinental Railroad until they got big government guarantees and you know, 230 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: and subsidies a tremendous amount of money. And even though 231 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: that became very corrupted, even though it led to the 232 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: credit mobiler scandal, which is a huge government scandal involving 233 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: everybody from both parties. Nonetheless, the Transcontinental Railroad got built, 234 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 3: and that was a tremendous asset to us and led 235 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 3: to US building you know, which still the greatest freight 236 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: rail system in the world. 237 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: Well, and I noticed you focused on some big governmental 238 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 2: projects that were that assisted industry, one of them being 239 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: you call New York's Governor DeWitt Clinton the most famous 240 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: person no one's ever heard of because of the Erie Canal. 241 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the greatest American you've never heard of. And 242 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 3: he had you know, and this is this is a 243 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 3: great example of how it all works together. You know, 244 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 3: you had this guy, Jesse Hawley, had a you know, 245 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: one room schoolhouse education in upstate New York, became a 246 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: flower merchant, and he ends up in debtors prison in Geneva, 247 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 3: New York because he could not get his products to 248 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: market on time due to all these terrible privately owned 249 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: toll roads that existed at the time. This is a 250 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 3: huge problem, you know, for getting anything across to New 251 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 3: York's harbor, which is one of the great natural harbors 252 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: in the world. So, you know, he comes up with 253 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: this idea for the Erie Canal, and DeWitt Clinton, who's 254 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: Mayor of New York, and the Governor seizes upon it. 255 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 3: He's all for it. Everybody's telling him it can't be done. 256 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 3: Jefferson says, you know, maybe in a hundred years. Madison 257 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 3: veto's the idea of any federal aid for it. But 258 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 3: he gets these government bonds pushed through on the basis 259 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: of the money the canal is going to make. And 260 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: you know, he gets the canal dug and it's the 261 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: biggest public works project since the Pyramids. You know, it's 262 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: just this tremendous, you know, big thing for the time 263 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: in a country that barely had an engineer then. But 264 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: it's dug out as I got, mostly by these four 265 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: Irish immigrants who are given, among other things, twelve to 266 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: twenty shots of whiskey a day, you know, and they're 267 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 3: dealing with stuff that's so dangerous, this black power, that 268 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: when they blow, you know, then they have an explosion. 269 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: They just put their shovels over their heads to hit 270 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: a big rock or kill them anyway, but a small 271 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 3: one will bounce. 272 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: Off, right. 273 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: But this puts New York and therefore America right at 274 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: the cockpit of the Western world at the height of 275 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 3: the industrial revolution. So it brings all this amazing produce 276 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 3: from all these riches, from the heartland, from the Midwest 277 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: to New York Harbor, and then they can take it 278 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 3: over to Europe and bring in all these bringing all 279 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 3: these other goods coming back. So it's you know, it's 280 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 3: a tremendously strategic, you know, use of public funds to 281 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: really just you know, reinvent the country. 282 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: From the very large to the very small. But something 283 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: we've all had at some point or another, there was 284 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: I'm looking at my notes and I can't find the 285 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: exact way you described it, But you were talking about 286 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: the copper riveting on Levi Strauss Genes. 287 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: Why is that important? Oh? 288 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was, you know, because that made they were 289 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 3: looking for. They wanted a pair of pants that would 290 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 3: stand up to the sort of work you did out west, 291 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: you know, taking ditches, digging mines, you know, building fences. 292 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 3: And this uh, this woman who seems to have had 293 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: a particularly lazy and particularly obese husband, uh wanted to 294 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: wanted to get a pair of pants so he wouldn't 295 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 3: have the excuse of not working so he uh you know, 296 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: so she's she writes in too, uh this again is 297 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 3: immigrant Jewish merchant about this and he takes basically what 298 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 3: are kind of like, you know, canvas flaps and kind 299 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 3: of copper rivets them together and boom you have. You 300 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: have what becomes blue jeans or dungarees or Levi's. 301 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: And still today, I mean and and one of those 302 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: things you can you can you can go to not 303 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: just third world countries, but particularly third world countries around 304 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: the world and see them marked up for higher than 305 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: they are here. 306 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: It's unbelieve believable. 307 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, they're there. You know. They're like a 308 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 3: collector's item. If you have any if you found any 309 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 3: old you know, Levi's anywhere, contact the company because they 310 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: may pay considerable amount of money to find, like, you know, 311 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 3: a hundred and fifty year old pairs of pants. 312 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 2: It really is amazing to think of all the advancements 313 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: in a peril over the years, and to think that 314 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 2: that product, you know, you talk about counterfeiting or improving 315 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: upon and textiles and everything, and to think what they've 316 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 2: done and how timeless it's been. And there have been changes, 317 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: but how really timeless that particular product has been and 318 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 2: still be so successful. We're talking to Kevin Baker. The 319 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 2: book is America the Ingenious. We'll talk with him about 320 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: inventions large and small in American history. 321 00:17:51,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 4: Coming up next, the Michael Berry Show book is called 322 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 4: America the Ingenious. 323 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: You can find it in bookstores, probably make for a 324 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 2: great gift, or for those of you who are just inquisitive, 325 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: a good read. They sent me an advanced copy and 326 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: I promptly took mine home. The good news about it 327 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 2: is that it's broken up into bite sized pieces, so 328 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: I can sit down with my nine and ten year old. 329 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 2: And there are some things that are beyond their comprehension, 330 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: but there are some other things that are pretty interesting, 331 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 2: one of which is liquid paper. 332 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: Kevin Watch choose that, Oh yeah, liquid paper, because it 333 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 3: was a tremendously kind of a small invention, but beautifully 334 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 3: aimed at the market at a certain time. And it 335 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 3: was again by this one Barbara Nesmith, who also enjoyed 336 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: a certain fame later on by becoming the mother of 337 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 3: Michael Nedsmith, who some of you of my age may 338 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 3: remember as a lead member of the Monkeys back in 339 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 3: the sixties. But she came up with this. You know, 340 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 3: she was a sort of an artist on the side 341 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 3: and worked as a secretary, and you know she was 342 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 3: in typing all these things and having to you know, 343 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 3: when you made a mistake and you had to erase 344 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: it and go over it. Really was it was a 345 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 3: terrible choice. So she managed to mix together some painting 346 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 3: materials and came up with the white out and she, 347 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 3: you know, she got this for for typewriters and it's 348 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: you know, an electric typewriters and it's still around today. 349 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: But basically too she was smart enough to kind of 350 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 3: sell out when she saw that, you know, that the 351 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: age of a typewriter was was drawing toward an end. 352 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 3: And she, you know, she got out just in time 353 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 3: and set up anice philanthropy and everything else. But she 354 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 3: you know, because now with computers, of course, that's sort 355 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 3: of you know, that's sort of a past thing. But 356 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 3: you still see it in some offices where people have 357 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 3: you know, whiteout or liquid paper. 358 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: Oh, when I'm forty six and I can remember member 359 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: probably the eighties, well you know when you were, when 360 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: you were when you were writing papers, so you know, 361 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: we were still handwriting papers and submitting them. 362 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: It was a lifesaver. 363 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 2: You didn't want you didn't want to, you know, if 364 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: you couldn't mark through, they wouldn't let you mark through. 365 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: You could wipe out, and it was since we're on, 366 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: since we're on small items that changed the world or 367 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: that were critically important. It's been in the news in 368 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: a negative way. But the lowly safety pin. 369 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, the safety pin is quite something. And that's 370 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: one of my favorite characters in the book. This gentleman 371 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: Walter Hunt, who invented all kinds of things, and often 372 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 3: before anybody else did, or better than they did, and 373 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: would continually give them away or not exploit the patent 374 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 3: or in the case of the safety pin, he invented 375 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: it because he was very concerned about a fifteen dollars 376 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 3: debt so he which was nobody was pressing him to pay. 377 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: But nonetheless he invented the safety pin, sold the patent 378 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 3: for four hundred dollars, and was very relieved to be 379 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 3: able to set off, uh, you know, to to settle 380 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 3: his debt. I mean this, this gentleman, he would come 381 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 3: up with all kinds of things. He invented basically castor wheels, 382 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: you know, the little wheels on your rolling suitcases. He 383 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: invented circus equipment. He invented a really good repeating rifle 384 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 3: before other people did. Uh. He invented an early sewing machine. 385 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 3: But his daughter convinced him that this would put all 386 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 3: kinds of seamstresses out of work, so he never, you know, 387 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: did try to do anything with that. Of course, it 388 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: was exactly the opposite. The sewing machine created work for 389 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 3: or for so many women at the time. But he just, 390 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 3: you know, he never seemed that interested. He just seemed 391 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 3: to like to invent stuff. He never seemed all that 392 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: interested in trying to make a fortune for it. He 393 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 3: preferred to kind of, you know, dabble in New York 394 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 3: real estate and paint some and then go into his 395 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: workshop and something. Yes, the true true tinkerer. 396 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 2: God bless the tinkers, think how they've made our lives better. 397 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: Kevin Baker is the author of America the ng Yes, 398 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 2: the running Shoe. 399 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: Why don't you put the running shoe in there? 400 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 3: Oh, the running shoe, because that was something else too 401 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: that really changes how we you know, how we dress 402 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 3: all the time. You know, I mean, nobody wore running 403 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,479 Speaker 3: shoes really until the twentieth century or very rarely, you know, 404 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 3: and then they sort of come in and then for 405 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: years it's just the Chuck Taylors, who was another fun 406 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 3: character it's kind of apostle of of athletic shoes and 407 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: basketball everybody, you know, NBA All Star Games, everybody used 408 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 3: to be wearing a pair of Chucks. But then you know, 409 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 3: people started to take this apart scientifically, particularly Phil Knight 410 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: and his old coach, and they, you know, they look 411 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 3: at what was done with the moon landing and these 412 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: kind of moon tread shoes and they you know, the 413 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 3: coaching basically events the first Nike shoes in his kitchen 414 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 3: using a waffle using his wife's wafffle iron. So she 415 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: wasn't too pleased about the results, but you know worked out. 416 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 2: Okay, why is dry cleaning one of the major in oh? 417 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 3: Dry cleaning is in there because again it's something that 418 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 3: you know, really transforms the way we live in many ways, 419 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 3: and it's again something you know in this in this 420 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 3: book too. We don't claim that Americans necessarily invented all 421 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 3: these things by themselves, but they were the you know, 422 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 3: we were the first people to make them viable. We 423 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 3: were the first people to add the special you know, 424 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: added thing that made them indispensable. And so dry cleaning 425 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 3: is fascinating process and it was also the first dry 426 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 3: cleaning process we know of in this country was patented 427 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 3: by a black man who got the first you know, 428 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 3: Thomas Jennings, who got the first patent for an African American. 429 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 3: And there were many objections a slave couldn't have a patent. Well, 430 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 3: he wasn't a slave. He was born free, you know, 431 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 3: he was. 432 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,239 Speaker 2: He is that the first patent by a black man 433 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 2: in America. 434 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 3: I did not know that, yep. And you know, and 435 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 3: the record is the loss of just what it was. 436 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 3: But he but he used it to buy That's an 437 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 3: interesting thing too, what American inventure have done with their money. 438 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 3: He used it to buy his wife and daughter out 439 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 3: of slavery, and his daughter later went on to you know, 440 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 3: she was a teacher and a church organist and went 441 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: our way to church. One day she hopped a street 442 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 3: horse drawn streetcar in New York which were which was 443 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 3: forbidden to blacks. They were segregated. She was hauled off 444 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 3: by a cop and she fought it in court and 445 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 3: became kind of the Rosa parks of the North, you know, 446 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: getting the New York street cars desegregated in the eighteen fifties. 447 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: Where are you located right now, I'm. 448 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 3: On the Upper West side of Manhattan in New York City? 449 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: Is that is? Are those the local church bells? 450 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: Yes, that's same, Michael. 451 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: That's that's a nice thing to, uh, to listen to 452 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 2: in the background. 453 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: I like that. 454 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very nice. It's kind of a kind of 455 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 3: an old world feel to it. 456 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to make you give an answer here. You 457 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: got sure? 458 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: Uh, well, you know what, you don't have to answer 459 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: this segment because we're up against a break. Kevin Baker 460 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: is the author the book is America the Ingenious. But 461 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to require coming up in the next segment, 462 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 2: you tell me your favorite of the seventy six inventions 463 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: and you have to pick one. 464 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 3: Oh you can't him in hall and. 465 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: Your favorite of the American inventors and why the book 466 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 2: is called America the Ingenious? 467 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: How a nation? Where did I put this? 468 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 2: How a nation of dreamers, immigrants and tinkerers changed the world? 469 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 2: Coming up next, unfortunately, our last segment with Kevin Baker. 470 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: He's the author of America the Ingenious, How a nation 471 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: of dreamers, immigrants and tinkerers changed the world. And I 472 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: want to know in this book of your seventy six inventions, 473 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 2: which of which one of them is your favorite? 474 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 3: Gosh, that's that's extremely hard to say, you know. I 475 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 3: just I love the beauty of the early Lincoln Zephyr cars, 476 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: and I love how cars and trains and planes of 477 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 3: that time were designed often by some of the same 478 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 3: people and were extraordinarily beautiful, the d C three and 479 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 3: the Lincoln Zephyr and the Zephyr trains. But I guess 480 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: my favorite has to be the the old movie palaces 481 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 3: and the amazing designs of that, and the fact that 482 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 3: you even had these machines that would simulate the the 483 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 3: end of the day, simulate the sunset over some beautiful 484 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 3: Mediterranean garden that the whole movie palace was made out 485 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 3: to be. Like this guy named a Meel Breerson, really 486 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 3: Emil Everson was really the guy who came up with 487 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 3: a lot of these things, including this Brenograph machine for 488 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: doing that, which he advertised for sale with fleecy cloud effects. 489 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 3: So I kind of love that. 490 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: But in addition to American ingenuity, there is the American 491 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: ability to turn a phrase in selling a product. 492 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 4: We're great promoters, oh absolutely, And all these people in 493 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 4: this were terrific at it. 494 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 3: It was amazing what kind of madmen chops they all 495 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 3: had for selling their stuff. 496 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 2: You know. 497 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: Ford and a woman named called Madame Demarest who invented 498 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 3: dress patterns. You know, she came up with them back 499 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 3: popular magazines to put them in, you know, promoted it 500 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 3: all over the country. 501 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, this is a nation that made 502 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: Billy Mays famous for hawking products for nineteen ninety nine. 503 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: He ain't the only one. So oh yeah, we like 504 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: our hype. 505 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 2: All right, you are one favorite inventor. 506 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: Pick one. 507 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: Gosh the guy I you know, I like. I like 508 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 3: mister doctor Rob There a great deal. I mean, he's 509 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: somebody who came to America. He loved being an American. 510 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: He kind of refused to be a hyphenated American. You know. 511 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 3: He went to college, worked his way through. At one 512 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 3: point he was so poor up at Cornell that his 513 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: teeth were falling out of his head from malnutrition. But he, 514 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: you know, he went there. He you know, came back 515 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: to Columbia. He founded one of the great physics departments 516 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 3: of all time, and he invented the MRI and did 517 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 3: the theory. You know, he found the theories behind the 518 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 3: MRI and did theoretical work on all kinds of things 519 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 3: that led to you know, the Internet, the microwave, oven, 520 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 3: the space telescope, you know, tremendous person, tremendous view of 521 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 3: the future. And you know that's that's such a great example. 522 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: I think of what an immigrant can do in this country. 523 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 2: Well, and how many have over over the over the centuries. 524 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: You put Les Paul in there in his electric guitar, 525 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: and I did not know how he died. 526 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: Could you tell that story? 527 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 4: Oh? 528 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 3: Well, you know, he didn't die from this, but he 529 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 3: managed to electrocute himself while inventing this. 530 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: I thought I had read that he did, but he 531 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: nearly died right right. 532 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 3: Well, when you read electric, you think dead, and he 533 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: nearly was, but he was. He was pounding out of, 534 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 3: you know, a key part of the electric guitar, which 535 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 3: weirdly enough came from Hawaii, you know, but he was 536 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: pounding out a key part of this, basically banging a 537 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 3: you know, electrical transistors do a board in his queen's apartment. 538 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 3: And he you know, nearly electrocuted himself and couldn't couldn't 539 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 3: play for a couple of years. So but he know 540 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 3: went on to be this, you know, went on to 541 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: give us the electric guitar, which. 542 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 2: Is he credited with the actual with the invention of 543 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 2: the electric guitar. 544 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 3: No, there were, There were a bunch of different people, 545 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 3: and the first kind of you know, progenitor of it 546 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 3: really came from Hawaii and Hawaiian music, where they originally 547 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 3: they were kind of like you lay him on your 548 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: lap and play, uh, you know, play an iron instrument 549 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: across the across the chords, you know so, but which 550 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 3: which I had no idea of, you know so. But 551 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: it's interesting how the things feed into it, Like it's 552 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 3: possible guitars came to Hawaii in the first place, regular guitar, 553 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 3: acoustic guitars because the King of Hawaii brought in some 554 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 3: you know, Mexican cowboys to tend to the cattle he 555 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: had imported. So these things loop around generally to everyone's benefit. 556 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: Kevin Baker is the author of America the Ingenious. Let 557 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: me ask you for folks out there who want to 558 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: encourage their children to be inquisitive about matters scientific and 559 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 2: engineering and aerospace and logistics. Did you notice a trend 560 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: as to how adult inventors were raised or different things, 561 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: different factors in their lives that encourage this sort of behavior. 562 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 3: Huh, that's a good question. Nia not particularly, not any 563 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 3: one thing. They usually had a certain curiosity. I know 564 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 3: with Rob his he used to say that when he 565 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 3: came home, all, you know, all the other mothers would 566 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 3: ask their kids like, what did you learn in school today? 567 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 3: And his mother would ask him what questions did you 568 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 3: ask in school today? She was really encouraging that kind 569 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 3: of you know, that kind of inquisitive scientific bent. So 570 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 3: I think that that helped tremendously, you know. And I 571 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: was told that too by a chemistry teacher in high 572 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 3: school that like, you know, he didn't think most of 573 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 3: us would become chemists, that we certainly didn't show the 574 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 3: facility for it. But what he was really trying to 575 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 3: do was teach us how to think. And I think 576 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: that's a you know, I think that's the key thing 577 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 3: in any endeavor. You can always gather data more easily 578 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 3: than ever on the internet. 579 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: Was there a golden age of American ingenuity? 580 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: And have we passed it? 581 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 3: Gosh, I don't know, and I don't think so. I 582 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 3: think this is kind of like, you know, punctuated equal 583 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 3: you know, is what do they call it? Punctuated equilibrium? 584 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 3: And in evolution. You know, like I think we have 585 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 3: periods where nothing seems to be going on. And I 586 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 3: was out talking at Microsoft and people there were saying, like, 587 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 3: you know, this is Jesus is so boring. People are 588 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 3: just inventing apps. But I think when certain things kind 589 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 3: of click through, then all kinds of things can change. 590 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 3: So I think, you know, we've always been incredibly in genious. 591 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 3: It's amazing the amount of inventors we had. In the 592 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 3: nineteenth century, there was incredible design changes and you know, 593 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 3: technical pushes forward. In the thirties, you know, of course, 594 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 3: the space race and the Cold War helped spur all 595 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 3: kinds of you know, help spur really the electronic revolution. 596 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 3: And I think there's tremendous stuff yet to come. You know, 597 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 3: the space elevator, you knowin a thin line up to 598 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 3: space in which we'll be able to put you know, 599 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 3: tremendous payloads. You know, self driving cars and trucks. We're 600 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 3: really transformed the way we live, huge health benefits potentially 601 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 3: from things like gene therapy and maybe microchips in the head. 602 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: You know, it's this will be uh, this can you know, 603 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 3: And there's always a challenge of how to do it, 604 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 3: you know, because things like self driving trucks will put 605 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 3: a lot of you know, will end a lot of 606 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 3: good jobs, put a lot of good people out of work. 607 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 3: But you know, we have to be able to know 608 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 3: how to move forward and deal with these disruptions that 609 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 3: this will cause. 610 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also interesting that necessity is a mother 611 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: of invention, but the ability to make above the profit 612 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 2: motive also drives a lot of this ingenuity that I know, 613 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 2: and I think as long as we preserve, you know, 614 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: this country as a place for capital and ideas to flow, 615 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: I like our future. 616 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: Kevin Baker, America, the ingenious. Thanks for being with us, 617 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me here. 618 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 2: You go pick it up at local bookstores. There's an 619 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: ebook version you can find online. How a nation of dreamers, 620 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: immigrants and tinkerers change the world. 621 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: That's your nation, and we should be very proud of it.