1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: Eaglon and I'm Holly Fry. One of our episodes this 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: week was about Tersa to Cartagena, who I was very 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: excited about because I love the medieval women writers. As 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: I said, uh, most of whom are writing in some 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: kind of a religious context. But I also love that 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: part two. It is incredibly different from my own experience, 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: but I always find their work so fascinating, and Tersea 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: Cartagena is one that I don't think I had really 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: heard of until I stumbled across her, uh looking for 12 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: something completely different, and I was like, wait, I've never 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: heard of this particular nun. I'm very intrigued by this 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: whole story. Uh. One of the things that really interests 15 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: me about her is that I found several, uh several 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: sources from places like Gallula University, people who have studied 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: deaf history, who talk about her as one of the 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: sort of the four mothers of Deaf culture and one 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: of the earliest voices in deaf history in what's now Spain. 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: But some of the ways that she writes about her 21 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: own disability while totally making sense in the time, are 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: also ideas that people find damaging today, which makes it 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: kind of complicated. Well, and I think that's that's one 24 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: of the things. Anytime we talk about somebody with a 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: disability who writes about it, particularly if they write about 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: it as eloquently as she did, it's still one person's 27 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: experience and it may not be the beneficial viewpoint for 28 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: other people experiencing that same disability. That's like always the 29 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: trick when we look at historical figures. Yeah. Yeah, just 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: in my own personal life, I know, I know multiple people, 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: include multiple people in my own family who have some 32 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: kind of a disability or a chronic illness and have 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,839 Speaker 1: just taken a lot of comfort and support in their 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: religious faith um related to all of that. But then 35 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: I also know people who are maybe not religious, or 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: maybe have been religious and aren't anymore or whatever, and 37 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: just find it incredibly harmful if they're talking about their 38 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: disability and somebody says, well, this will bring you closer 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: to God, Like, please do not use this episode as 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: a reason to do that, because it can be really 41 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: harmful and upsetting to people. Yeah, first of all, every 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: human is having their own experience, and you can't really 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: apply anyone else's. Sometimes other people's experience and and viewpoints 44 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: will be helpful and comforting, but other times not so much, 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: so you can never assume. Yeah. Yeah, I'm hopeful that 46 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: um more things about her will eventually be unearthed because 47 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: those two petitions sort of showing up in a in 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: a doctoral thesis in two thousand one. They give me 49 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: some hope that there maybe is more detail out there 50 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: that that we might be able to piece together a 51 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: little bit more about her and as a person, because like, 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: we don't even know when she became a nun Like 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: within the time it would have been um within reason 54 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: for people to join a religious order when they were 55 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: as young as twelve or fourteen, but the fact that 56 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: she had also been betrothed suggests that maybe it was 57 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: a little later. We just don't know. We don't have 58 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: the detail on any of that. Fingers crossed. Yeah. I 59 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: also went down a rabbit hole of trying to confirm 60 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: whether the Deluna family that gets a very brief name 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: drop in here UM is at all connected to the 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: the Deluna side of the Nino Taro Warren family that 63 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: we talked about UM and I was like, Uh, too bad, 64 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: I don't have that book anymore because I remember there 65 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: being a family tree and that would have at least 66 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: given me more of a starting point than I have 67 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: right now. Tracy, you don't memorize every page of every 68 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: book that you used for research. And I know, I 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: know not everyone with the last name Deluna is related 70 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: to to anyone else, but like, this was specifically a 71 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: very prominent family that talked about their their lineage from 72 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: Spain right, and how how extensive and how many, how 73 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: high placed many of those folks were. So anyway, maybe 74 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: I will manage to figure that out. I definitely ran 75 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: out of time to try to figure out. Before recording 76 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: this episode, we talked about Sonora Webster Carver. This week 77 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: we did. I was deeply surprised that you had chosen 78 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: this one because you you sent me a ping uh, 79 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: in which you asked if I had her on my list? Um, 80 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: and wow, did I have a giant soft spot for 81 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: that movie which came out when I was I think sixteen. Um, 82 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: I was extremely into it and just fascinated by by 83 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: Gabrielle on Noir. And UH was like, wait, Holly, Holly 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: is picking one about diving horses. This surprises me. Yes, um, 85 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: and I'm glad I did, because I will say, um, 86 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: reading her autobiography is one of the delights of this 87 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: year so far for me. That book is so fun. 88 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: I recommend everyone grab it you can. Um. You can 89 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: get a digital version for super cheap UM. And it 90 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: is a legitimately very fun read. Like a lot of 91 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: times when you and I either check out a book 92 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: or we buy a new book for the research for 93 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 1: the show, I would say probably neither of us often 94 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: reads them cover to cover, right, We're kind of looking 95 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: for the information we need. Um. But in this case, 96 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: I literally couldn't stop reading a school I'll just read 97 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: the next chapter. I know this doesn't really have anything 98 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: to do with the show, but I just want to read. Yeah, 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: because her writing and it's it's written as told to 100 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: another writer that helped her put the book together. But 101 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: like her tone is so funny. Her descriptions of her 102 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: mother had me just crying with laughter. I posted a 103 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: couple of them on Twitter because they made me laugh 104 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: so hard. Um. But Yeah, it's a super enjoyable one. 105 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: And there's uh. I admitted to the top of it 106 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: that I had a lot of trepidation about it, because 107 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: I am one of those people that doesn't like to 108 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: see animals used in entertainment. Um, But I won't say that. 109 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: I came around it was like, yes, you should absolutely 110 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: do this, but I softened about my kind of hard 111 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: reaction of don't ever do that. Um. Again, we're getting 112 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: it through the lens of people that did this and 113 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: loved it. But they honestly do all seem when you 114 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: read accounts from her sister things that Dot Carver said, 115 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: thinks that she said, it really does seem like they 116 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: were all very devoted to the animals as well. Um. 117 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: And we're in in Doc Carver's case, anybody that ever 118 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: had any minor injury like or more serious injury like 119 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: their nose got hurt there, you know whatever. He was 120 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: always like, it's never the horse's fault, is your fault, 121 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: you're the dummy, um. Which is interesting and it apparently 122 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: broke his heart when he would have to take horses 123 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: out of the show for whatever reason. There was one 124 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: horse she talked about that just developed some habits that 125 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: weren't safe anymore, and normally they would like theoretically they 126 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: would sell the horse, but he couldn't bear to part 127 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: with it. So they carried this horse with them everywhere 128 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: to all of their tours, just to stand in its 129 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: stall and eat and go for rides. Now to get 130 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: like somebody would ride it. And her husband was always, 131 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, like before he was her husband. It's like, 132 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: why why are we Why are we paying this really 133 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: expensive to keep a horse? And it's just because you 134 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: can't bear to sell. We are a business. So we've 135 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: talked before how I grew up kind of out in 136 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: the country and our neighbors had a pasture where they 137 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: periodically would board horses, and whenever there were horses in 138 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: that pasture, going to look at the horses was like, so, 139 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: I'm so excited about it, and I kept trying to 140 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: get my parents to get a horse, which was way 141 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: beyond our financial need, like ability, because horses are expensive. 142 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: And I was like, but like, we could board the 143 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: horse with the neighbor, it would be right here. I 144 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: would take care of the horse. Was no. I think 145 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people had that. I am actually one 146 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: of those people that never went through a horse fascination 147 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: as a kid. Yeah, I had a friend that jumped 148 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: horses and I went with her once and I was like, 149 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: this is terrifying. I don't want to be round these animals. 150 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: I think they're absolutely beautiful, but they always scared me 151 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: a little. They're just so large. They're very big. Well, 152 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: and I was always separated from these ones in the 153 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: pasture by the fence. You know, the horses could put 154 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: their head over the fence, but there was a barrier 155 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: between me and them. So it wasn't until I was 156 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: a a probably in college, that I saw and rode 157 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: on a full sized adult horse instead of like a 158 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: pony at the fair or whatever. It was like, this 159 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: animal is quite large. Yeah, it's a yeah. Um. There 160 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: are some really really wonderful passages in her autobiography where 161 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: she talks about learning just all the basics again without 162 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: her sight, and some of which is very as I said, 163 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: very funny. She is a very funny woman. Um. And 164 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: she talked about how we quoted her talking about people 165 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: um always trying to help the blind in a way 166 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: that actually is in some ways demeaning or her surfeelings. 167 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: And she got really upset when one of her friends 168 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: came over and she was making the bed and she 169 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: had only started making the and again recently at this point, 170 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: it was pretty early in her recovery after her her 171 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: surgery and her other treatments, and she found out later 172 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: that she had put the bedspread on upside down and 173 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: that this friend had not wanted to hurt her feelings 174 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: by telling her, and it got her so angry about 175 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: she's like, that's how I'm gonna learn and figure this out, Like, 176 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: people have to be honest with me at all times. Um. 177 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: The other ones that were honestly, very very funny. We're 178 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: her talking about her husband al because he of course 179 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: knew who he was marrying and that she was this 180 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: very independent person. But she found out a little ways 181 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: into her her um, you know, post vision life, that 182 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: he had been secretly moving her food around on her 183 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: plate for her, like to make sure her fork got 184 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: into the potatoes and stuff. And she was so furious, 185 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And of course he's again trying to help, 186 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: but she's like, I have to learn how to eat 187 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: for myself. But she does mention that soup was particularly difficult, 188 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: and that peaches really alluded. They're very They're slippery and 189 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: hard to eat when you can see perfectly well what 190 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: you're doing. So but she was really like she took 191 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: those challenges. She also talks a lot about how she 192 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: was always pretty fastidious about her appearance um and how 193 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: she did not want that to go away. Like she 194 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to look like a sloppy 195 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: mess and have people go, oh, it's okay because she's blind. 196 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: She's like, no, I want to look as great as 197 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: I can at all times. And if you see pictures 198 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: of her throughout her life, she could turn a look 199 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: like she was always super put together. She always looked perfect. 200 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: She learned how to apply her makeup um even though 201 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: she couldn't see, and she would get her husband to 202 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: just spot check it. But like, how this what I 203 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: really loved and it was almost kind of inspiring for 204 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: me to rethink how I handle things. Is that she 205 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: was saying, I've always been fastidious, but I also used 206 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: to be careless, Like I would just throw things wherever. 207 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I didn't have that approach of like everything has its place, 208 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: And I found that I needed to get really systematic 209 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: about where I stored things, learning my clothing by touch, 210 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: where I could be like I know this is this 211 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: dress because I have done it. You know I can 212 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: feel this button on it. She even started sewing the buttons, 213 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: sewing buttons onto her swimsuits, so she had like a 214 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: code of like if it has a button on the 215 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: right shoulder, that's a red suit, If it has a 216 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: button on the left leg, that's a blue suit. Which 217 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting. But it's just a wonderful read, and 218 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: she's so frank about what was difficult and and what 219 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: came easy to her, and she has such great humor 220 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: about it that it it's really an enjoyable look at 221 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: her process and how very you realize she was. It's 222 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: almost a pity that she dropped out of school because 223 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: she also could have done a million things in academia 224 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: because she was very smart. Um not. But she's on 225 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: her great love, which was horses, of course. But yeah, 226 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: she's I found myself with great admiration for her. By 227 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: the end of it. I think I will uh pick 228 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: this up and read it myself. Although I do have 229 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: a soft spot for that movie, the way that they 230 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: framed her accident and recovery does kind of come off 231 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: as like inspiration porn, which is not great. Yes, she 232 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: did not like any of that treatment at all, Like 233 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: she was like if my if my story inspires people great, 234 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: but it needs to be my story as it happened. 235 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: And I like that. She always, I mean, not long 236 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: before she lost her sight. She was always very sort 237 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: of pragmatic, and she recognized like it's when she talks 238 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: about like, oh, I I was doing interviews, but it 239 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: wasn't about me. I couldn't get a big head. They 240 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: cared about diving horses and uh. She talks a lot 241 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: about her relationship with Doc Carver and how it was 242 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: all about like him kind of testing her for a 243 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: long time to see if she had like the grit 244 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: it took to do this job, which for a lot 245 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: of people would be nerve racking. Um. Their relationship fascinates me. 246 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: He started calling her after she started diving. UM. Up 247 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: to that point, he had been a little standoffish with her, 248 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: and she realized it was because he was testing her 249 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: and didn't want to invest emotionally in her. But once 250 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: she started diving, he started calling her Daddy's girl as 251 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: her name all the time, and like to her like 252 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: that was like the greatest praise she could have ever received. 253 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: So that relationship that plays out in the press, I 254 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: think to them they were father and daughter in a 255 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: lot of ways. So uh, there's a whole that's a 256 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: whole lot to unpack and like the psychology of two 257 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: people that need each other in that way, uh that 258 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: we can't ask questions about it at this point is 259 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: a lot to conjecture about, but it is pretty interesting 260 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: to read. So thank you for spending time with us 261 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: this week. We hope that you have a great weekend 262 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: the head. If you have time off, we hope that 263 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: you relax and recharge. And if you don't have time off, 264 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: we hope that everything goes as smoothly as possible it 265 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: in your days. We will see you here tomorrow with 266 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: a classic and next week with all new episodes. Stuff 267 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: you missed in History Class is a production of I 268 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 269 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 270 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.