WEBVTT - Need A 4th?! Ep. 4 with Brandel Chamblee 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:11.160 Jeff, I called you, Jeff, Yes, absolutely, m M. Golf. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.200 Is that they anything in golf that doesn't change the 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:15.680 anything that changes the best in playing? Does this man 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.400 a one time winner on the PGA Tour? The point 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:24.000 Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.480 Before we get to the episode, we should tip our 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:32.200 caps to echo our corporate sponsors here and of course 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.599 Lydia co the New World Number one is a long 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.199 time Echo ambassador. Michael do do you know my affection 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.720 for Lydia and I share it? Just a charming person 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.559 and an outstanding golfer. You've done her far better than I. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.640 What can you tell us about her? Well? I still 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:49.880 have her hat from the Olympics in Rio is his 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.000 gorgeous New Zealand hat, and asked for I could keep it. 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.240 She said yes. But one time I was talking to her, 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:56.920 I said, where does your power come from? She says, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.280 it's from the ground. You know. It's like a really 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.320 old school. And she has beautiful footwork. And I always 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.480 watched her swing the club and she's like she's dancing. 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.360 And as I'm as I'm observing this, I always noticed 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.840 her her Echo biome shoes like they just seem to 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.720 give her superpowers. Have you observed anything along those lines? Well, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.160 you know what the great teachers say, there's only one 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.280 thing that connects you to the ground in this game, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.560 and that's your They don't say your echo shoes, but 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.160 in this case, it is her echo shoes. So that's 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.200 pretty cool. The secret to lydia Co's success, along with 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.480 many other talents. But she's wearing the right footwears all 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.920 right back to na fourth. I think it's appropriate that 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.880 just a minute ago, Jeff Ogilvie and my distinguished colleague 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.479 and I observed Alan Ship fixing his hair because many 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.520 people would say that our next guest has one of 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.800 the great heads of hair, and all of golf shipnuks 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.080 on the short list. Uh, Robert Rock, Jeff, you ever 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.720 played with Robert Rock? Robert Rock go fantastic, Hay antasted 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.560 to her, how's this golf game? Um? Probably the most 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.520 admired golf swaying to our Actually, Robert Rock is a 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.720 fantastic golf swing, and he is the he's the man 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.480 to go to for questions about technique. But held, his 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.000 hair is probably better than his swing. He's got he's got, 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.400 he's got our guest test by blues hair. But I 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.200 don't want you to try to guess it just on 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.120 that basis, because I want to say this about our 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.280 guest first. So I was I was at the Father's 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.320 Son event last year and Roger was there. The course 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.399 whisper Alan, Can he help us out? Who's the course whisper? 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.680 Roger Maltby? Roger Maltby, And I said to Roger, the 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.240 course whisper does aunt Trevino is there? Does anybody know 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:38.000 more about the golf swing? Then Trevino and Rodge like 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.800 a lot of professional golfers, super precise, and he said, 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.720 I would say that nobody knows more about his or 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:49.800 her own swing. Then Buck leave Buck Trevino knows about 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:51.920 his own swing. And I thought that was a very 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.840 nuanced answer. But our guest today and then we'll really 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.040 open up for you guys to identify the guests is 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.240 absolutely on the shortlist of the six people in the 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.320 world who are the most knowledgeable about the golf swing. 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:10.760 Anyone cared to try on on that basis hair knowledgeable 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.080 about the golf swing, Um, it's it's it's not lead better. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:22.600 He never takes his hat off, put Harmon's bald um. 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.280 I got Grady, Oh my god, great head of hair 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:31.120 back to the day, but I haven't seen since the eighties. Actually, Oh, 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.720 Grady's hair is bamburger esque when now that I think 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:38.720 about it, Yeah, yeah, you know he he had Well, okay, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.200 is this is this man of one time winner on 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.840 the PGA Tour. This man is a winner in life 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:51.840 and on the man warmth, Jeff, You've played multiple, multiple 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.520 rounds of golf with this guy, this this distinguished guest 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.560 of bars. Although I don't know that for sure, but 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.960 I don't I don't know how that could not be possible. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:05.040 And he warmed up next to Tiger Woods at the 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.680 two thousand US Open on the Pebble Beach course, and 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:10.240 he was trying to do his own thing. He was 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.280 in the field and uh, and like any of us, 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.400 he couldn't stop looking. Uh. And he said to himself, 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.640 then this guy's gonna win by fifteen. Oh. That's another 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:26.000 quality of this guest of ours. He's good at predicting things, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.960 often based on statistical analysis. He has a great head 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.400 for the golf swing. He's got a great head of hair, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.240 and he's got a great head for statistical analysis. I'm 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.480 gonna say, Brandy sham believe, Jeff, are you gonna second 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:46.880 that um Brando does have good hair? Is he super 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:52.480 people out the golf swing? Well, he says debate Randal 0:04:52.560 --> 0:05:03.800 Sham Blake, come on and yes, Brandella, No, I was 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.520 being kept in the dark called purpose. So it's probably best. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.719 It's probably best. Sorry I missed it, probably for the better. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.240 Tune in. It's it's a pleasure to join you, guys, 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.240 Jeff Alan, Michael, how are you, guys? Where are you guys? 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.160 All over the world? In California? Just down under? I'm 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.480 in Philadelphia. Where are you, Brendle, I'm at Scottsdale. I'm 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.640 home as well. I've been home for the last two 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.800 weeks or so, something like that. But I leave tomorrow 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.920 the head to the East Coast, which is a common 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.160 occurrence these days for Mace. It's called channel move to Connecticut. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.200 I'm deeply curious how many books on your bookcase in 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.239 the background. It is in the same bookcase behind Michael. 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.880 I want it's for another time. We'll have to sort 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.320 that out, but there's got to be a few that 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.400 you both have on those sagging shelves. It's funny. I 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.440 got some of Michael's behind me. I know that, I uh, 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.480 I got, I got there, you go. I didn't take 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.120 long to find one of Michael. Yeah, the Second Life 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.720 of Tiger Woods, Yeah that got that got dated really fast. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.240 You play with brands Brandon was obviously been a long time. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.159 Did we did we play? We must have? You know, Yeah, 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.640 I looked you turned pro? Is that correct? Something like that? 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.080 And so yeah, you straightaway got onto the European tour, 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:24.520 but I think you made your way to the PG 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:30.159 eight tour like two thousand thousand one something like that. Yeah, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.400 I got three Q school Dan to two thousand started 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.800 in two thousand one. Yeah, he was still definitely out 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.400 there at that point. Ryan, Yeah, I didn't leave. Well, 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.120 I wasn't around for much longer after that. So two 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.359 thousand and two was last year I was fully exempt, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.920 and then at two thousand three I I played a 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.039 little on the tour, but mostly I was doing television 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:52.440 by then. But I remember hearing about Jeff, uh really 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.080 first from Yeah. I mean, of course I would have 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:56.919 seen you or maybe played with you or something, but 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.719 really hearing about Jeff from Gary McCord. I guess he 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.800 was a frequent partner of yours. A gray Hawk or 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.640 not a gray Whisper Rock. Uh, I don't know. Two 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.600 thousand three or four or five, somewhere in there you 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.640 would have been a member. When did you join Whisper Rock. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.320 I joined whisp Rock. I think towards the end of 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.560 two thousand and two. I think, um, yeah, and I 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.880 played with Magic almost every day. I think there for 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.760 a while, which I don't know. If I think there's 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.840 benefits to your golf education and some hindurance, theres right. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:27.920 I'd tell you what, He's got a damn good record 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.480 at telling me who's gonna be awesome? Uh. In addition 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.760 to you, uh, which he's saying your praises. Long before 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.800 you won the US Open, you know, he was like, 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.800 you gotta watch this guy. Um what was it? You know? 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.520 He said, he it's at nine miles hits straight up 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:42.800 in the air, and he's got a great touch. I 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.080 was like, okay, all those things work. Another time, I 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.720 was on a plane flying to Pebble Beach album and 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.720 Gary McCord was sitting behind me. And now, Gary and 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.160 I've got along great forever. I mean, we've been buds forever. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.640 I did a lot of hiking with Gary. I've spent 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.680 a lot of time with Gary. I just love him. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.239 I've argued I think he's one of the fifty best 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.360 things that's happened to golf in the last fifty years. 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.080 Many times I think I even wrote that one. But 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.120 um anyway, he set behind me and he just won't 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.200 leave me alone, you know, and he's like, oh, you 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.120 got you gotta you gotta see this guy swing. You 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.840 gotta see this guy swing. And he comes up and 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.760 I mean, like, now the entire front of the plane 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.240 is interested in this guy's golf swing. And it was 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.239 bryceon d Shambo's golf swing when he was a senior 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.920 or junior at SMU, and I was the first time 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.040 I've ever seen it. And he was like, no, he 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:33.839 really does. He's a one point. You gotta see this 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.720 as more normous blah blah blah. And we're drawing lines 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.560 and we're doing all this stuff. And then in a 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.400 blink of an eye, I was playing in a straight 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:46.079 down event, uh, and Bryson was in the event, and 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.520 and you know, I had raged against the golf machine 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.000 for years, and I was so curious because he was 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.080 the first guy to come along, at least in my view, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.720 and adopt ideas from the golf machine, who I would 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.480 say was better off because of that. Now, obviously that's 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.720 open to debate, but that's my view, and so I 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.160 was curious how he did it. So in the locker room, 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:12.840 I was like, holy hell, wait a minute, you don't 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.000 swing anything like all these guys who adopted golf machine philosophies. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:18.920 And he goes, well, that's because I've I've got my 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.840 own view, you know, and there's a million of them 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.280 in there, and off he goes. And I don't know 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.000 that I said another word for an hour and a half, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.880 and uh and and and off he went. Now this 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.640 is before he ever hit a shot on the PGA tour. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.839 Uh So, anyway, that was a Gary McCord watch out 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:38.080 for this guy spot on, you know, dead ringer called 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.319 by Gary. So uh I diverge. We get back to 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.040 Jeff Ogilvie, and I think my favorite Jeff Ogilvie's story. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.040 And Jeff, you can tell you this is true because 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.719 I've told this story before, and hell if I even 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.920 though it's true, but I'm from Texas and rarely do 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:54.760 you will let facts get into the way of a 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.360 great story. But I hope it's true and that the 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.680 year you won the US Open, you played in the 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.760 Club Championship at Whisper Rock and did not win. Is 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:09.040 that is that story? True? True story? Yeah? I never 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.880 won the I never won the club Championship. Wispro. I think, um, 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.320 I probably played it four or five times, and that 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.120 might be the hardest tournament to win in the world. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.559 I think club damship, I mean this club golfers tour 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:25.800 players regularly that cracks who beat you? Who beat you? 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.719 You won the national championship of our country, one of 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.760 the four majors, and you couldn't win your damn club championship? 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.280 Who beat you? If you guys won that? When I played, 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.880 I mean Jim Strickland, you know it's tricky. Played Arizona 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.880 State with Phil Yeah, he was my player, straight down. Yeah, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.760 I was it. Yeah. Yeah to Dempsey wanted a couple 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.680 of times, I think days, Um yeah, to a player, 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.400 UM yeah, I never managed. It was tough. I mean, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:56.480 you've got probably I don't know, three or four two 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.280 of guys play it every year, and you've got five 0:10:58.360 --> 0:10:59.800 or six or seven or eight other guys who have 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:04.760 thought of I sue golfers sort of sort of failed pros, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.840 but they still find themselves into jobs where they don't 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.360 have to work and they just play golf every day, 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.880 you know, like it's, um, it's an incredibly high standard. 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.719 What isn't there one day where they set the I 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.520 don't think it's a club championship. I think something else 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.160 where they set the pins and crazy spots and the 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.559 greens are at fifteen it's tipped out. It's like hell 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.280 day or something. What what is that, Jeff? It's the 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.240 battle of attrition? Yeah, um, And they set the course 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.719 up as ridiculous as they can. Yeah, and um, it's 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:33.920 supposed to be a joke, but it's kind of fun 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.720 for the good players. I mean, if you break eight, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.360 you've probably it's like it's tough with the Nookemont set 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.719 up tough, you know, it's like out of control difficult. Um. 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.800 And every now and then some pros somehow manages to 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.439 keep it under the whole all day and shoot seventy 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.960 one or something. But most guys are shooting high seventies 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:49.640 and eighties, and this is a course where we're kind 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.920 of pretty regularly shooting in the sixties. So um. But 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:57.560 then they have the the the obverse to that um. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.640 On St Patrick's Day they play the Green Tea where 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.640 we all go out of the very very maxifulward days 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.560 and just drawing at every poth fule grain and we 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.160 try to shoot in the fifties and stuff. So like, 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:06.839 give us a die. How does it convey in the 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.120 dye wards? It's the easiest convey and that kind of 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.520 the finest dice. That ye. So um. Good fun. Yeah, 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.319 they don't have a problem finding fun at the Whisper 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.240 Rock Alan, I gotta say, you look like you like 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:23.080 your Henry David Thureaux or something there in that house. 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.040 You look like you did you build that house yourself? 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.120 Are you? Are? You like you're just sitting in there 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.040 with a chair and a table and that's it. It's 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.520 like this Austere lifestyles. This is an old house and 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.520 the nineteen twenties in Carmel and the guy who who 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.160 basically built it, that's his kayak and it lights up 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.240 at night. There's there's um, you know, over my right shoulder, 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.679 there's there's illuminates and it was a seaworthy vessel. It's 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.480 hard to imagine and then these these are lights were 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.720 fishing baskets have been repurposed and there's a there's a 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.559 hanging light. It was the spine of a of like 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.439 a wind primitive insurfer. It's made of wood. I mean, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.840 it's really beautiful. So it's all the old carmel Stone fireplace, 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.480 so it's it's got some character. But yeah, I know 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.320 there's a lot of jokes because I don't even really 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.319 The thing about social media you have to really sweep 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.880 the background. You have to think carefully about anything it's 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.959 in the view of the trolls because they won't pick 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.880 up on the most random items that you don't even notice. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.600 And so yeah, there's always a lot of jokes about 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.160 the boat house. But right the screenshot and then zoom in, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.199 Oh yeah, no, they're crazy, I know. And then try 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.280 to cancel you for something you have in your background. Yeah, 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.400 brand out there, you're gonna get the observation that Schipnuk 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.880 was that a retreat for the Jewish theological seminary gathering 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.560 of Rabbi's somewhere in the California Redwoods, because he's looking 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:49.920 more and more like rap here. But it's all good 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.080 I'd like to brag about and I do this periodically, Brandle, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.600 and one could easily do it of you and not 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.640 too many other people who have went on tour. Uh. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.760 Mr Ogilvy just dropped a word that I've never in 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:06.600 my life used once of obverse? Was it? Did I 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.680 use it in the right contact that I would? Sure? 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.080 It was perfect? And I'm going to send you at 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.760 some point. And brands are very talented. I mean, of course, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.080 one of the great keen observers of of of the 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.200 modern day golf life there is, but Brandon, you'll you'll 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.120 love to see this. Chevnik and I were on with 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.840 Jeff shortly before the the Open on the on the 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.320 old course, and uh, we just asked him, you know, 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.360 what do you think the course? And he went on 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.320 for about I don't know, Hollan, would you say two 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.880 and a half minutes? It was longer than that, much 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.280 longer than that. And and Brandon, you could literally you 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.560 could just insert a couple of semicolons here and there 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.280 and just run it in Sports Illustrated tomorrow. It was. 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.320 It was such a beautiful statement on what what the old? 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.880 If I could pay Jeff a compliment, I you know, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.760 every time I read Jeff Uh, I think it's hard 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.280 to believe that guy got that good at golf because 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.440 it looks like he spent that much time writing. So 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.920 you're a wonderful writer. Obviously you're very smart. So um. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.680 You know, often the conversation uh in in golf TV 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.239 circles is who would make a great commentator or analyst? 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.720 You know, they're they're on the constant lookout. But your 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.400 name is always at the top of the list. So 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.320 I'm sure you're still ready to play, and you're still 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.440 gonna keep playing and all that. But but there's a 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.840 career waiting for you out there talking about golf for sure, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.400 and writing about it. I still I still wake up 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.440 thinking about hating golf shots, not watching golf shots. You know, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.000 it's really really hard to kill that bug. I get it. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.280 I hit golf balls. My wife and I played the 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.360 last three days, UH, and then I went out and 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:48.960 she took off to place. He's with a group of 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.800 girls playing Pioneers today. But I went out hit golf 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.720 balls today. I'm sixty years old and I'm thinking about 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.280 going to Q school UH in December. The bug never 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.160 leaves you. You have a couple of good rounds and 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.000 I think, oh, yeah, I got it, you know, And 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.560 these days, at sixty, getting it really is just when 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.600 you wake up and your back doesn't hurt, your almost 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.680 don't hurt, your wrist on hurt, and I think, oh, well, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.400 hell I can. I can still play this game. The 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.120 bug never leaves you. So tell me do you think, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:20.760 I mean, you've obviously analyzed the golfing a lot and 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.680 thought about it and messed around with it and observed 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.520 a lot in the last twenty or thirty years. Do 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.880 you think if you had your young man's body now, 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.880 with what you know, you would have been better? Yes? Absolutely, 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:37.440 I do, Jeff, because I didn't I didn't know enough 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:45.840 when I was and and I'm not faulting the instructors 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.520 that I worked with, but there was no such thing 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.119 as YouTube. There was no way to check their information. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.240 They were on the cover of golf magazine. So whatever 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.920 they said, you know, you you thought was gospel. Uh. 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.960 But if I knew now, or if I knew then 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.920 what I know now, I would say, well, hold on 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:07.400 a second, whoever did it that way? Uh? And and 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:12.480 and the way I'm doing it is how Tom Watson 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.960 did it, and how Jack Nicholas did it, uh, and 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.240 how Bobby Jones did it, and how Ben Hogan did it. Um. 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.360 And I would say, with all due respect, I think 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.120 you're wrong. I didn't do that. I said, you know, you, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.000 you must know what you're talking about. Your cover your 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.320 names everywhere. And so I listened to them. I was curious, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.960 and I enjoy golf instructors. I enjoyed sitting around and 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:38.919 talking about philosophy. So I slowly adopted those those philosophies 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.320 to the extent that I could no longer find my 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.600 way back home again. You know, in college, I can 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.959 remember one time being asked, you know, why are you 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.679 so good? And I was, I was very good. Um, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.359 And I thought, well, gosh, I hit it high, and 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.120 very few people can hit it past me. Uh, those 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.520 that's a pretty good place to start. And and I 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:03.720 couldn't sniff saying that. When I played the tour, I mean, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.639 I think the longest I ever was on tour was 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.840 I think I cracked the top ten and driving distance 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.920 one or top ten, top fifty and driving distance one year. 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.600 But otherwise I was, you know, on the shorter end 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.280 of the scale, you know, seventy five or something or 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.520 a hundred and um so slowly but surely, my my 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.520 horsepower left me. Um so yeah, I definitely do. I 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.440 just didn't have enough confidence um and my swing thought 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.119 there's a There was a very if I could say this, uh, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.399 not a particularly popular movie. It didn't get seen that often, 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:39.680 but a friend of mine wrote it called Seven Days 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:44.400 in Utopia. Dave Cook is a sports psychologist, golf psychologists, 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.160 very religious guy. He wrote that book and it's based 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:52.119 loosely in fact, because there was a character that that 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.919 it was based around, a teacher from from Waco, Texas, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.760 sort of a different version of Harvey Pinnick. But anyway, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.440 that the genesis, you know, the gist of the book 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.440 is that this broken down tour pro car breaks down 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.040 in the small town and he goes to see this 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.480 tour pro because you've got nothing to do. He's stuck 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.840 in the town for a week, and the golf professional 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.000 tells him, you know, he asked him, why do you 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:19.840 grip the club? Do you what you do? And he said, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.800 I don't know, And the golf professional looks at him 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.600 incredulously and says, well, how could you not know? An 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.240 answer to that, he goes, your homework tonight is to 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.360 go home, and I want you to write five pages 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.320 on why you grip the club the way you do, 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.200 and uh, it's like gracious. So you know the movie, 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.479 you know, the scene goes back and he's up all 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.920 night trying to figure it out and writes it, labors 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.399 over it, gets it written. It comes out the next 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:42.879 day and he's really excited to give it to this 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.119 teacher and the teacher goes, well, I don't want it, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.480 and you throw that away and he was like, what 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.000 are you talking about. I stayed up all night to 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:50.600 write this, and he goes, it wasn't for me, it's 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.240 for you because when you get on tour and somebody 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.480 tries to tell you to change your grip, you will 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.840 now know why you grip it that way and you'll 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.400 be able to argue why you do and so um, 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.560 you know, I think having the confidence in your own ability, uh, 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.840 and knowing why you swing the way you do is 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.159 is an invaluable to him because, Jeff, there are million 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.040 different golf swings, as you well know, in the Hall 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.840 of Fame across the line laid off, short, long, and 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:21.760 everything in between. M and trying to swing to some ideal. Uh, 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:26.199 it's certainly not ideal. I would say, Jeff, I want 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.000 you to answer your own question, because I kind of 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:30.280 feel like, having got to know you a lot this year, 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:32.920 you might be better off if you could go back 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.679 to being just young and dumb and unencumbered and have 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.600 a free mind. Do you think that the game's become 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.000 easier or harder for you irrespective of you know how 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:46.000 your body has changed. Um Master is a bit similar 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:50.040 to Brandon. Actually, I knew what I was doing when 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.800 I was ten. I feel like um and gradually, but 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:56.879 you gotta get a lesson from the guy your dad says. 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.280 You know this causes he's a great teacher. He takees 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.680 some good players into what he says, and you can't 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:03.000 listen to what he says, and you do a little 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:04.320