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Speaker 1: Jeff, I called you, Jeff, Yes, absolutely, m M. Golf.

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Speaker 1: Is that they anything in golf that doesn't change the

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Speaker 1: anything that changes the best in playing? Does this man

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Speaker 1: a one time winner on the PGA Tour? The point

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Speaker 1: Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth

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Speaker 1: Before we get to the episode, we should tip our

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Speaker 1: caps to echo our corporate sponsors here and of course

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Speaker 1: Lydia co the New World Number one is a long

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Speaker 1: time Echo ambassador. Michael do do you know my affection

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Speaker 1: for Lydia and I share it? Just a charming person

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Speaker 1: and an outstanding golfer. You've done her far better than I.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell us about her? Well? I still

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Speaker 1: have her hat from the Olympics in Rio is his

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Speaker 1: gorgeous New Zealand hat, and asked for I could keep it.

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Speaker 1: She said yes. But one time I was talking to her,

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Speaker 1: I said, where does your power come from? She says,

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Speaker 1: it's from the ground. You know. It's like a really

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Speaker 1: old school. And she has beautiful footwork. And I always

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Speaker 1: watched her swing the club and she's like she's dancing.

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Speaker 1: And as I'm as I'm observing this, I always noticed

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Speaker 1: her her Echo biome shoes like they just seem to

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Speaker 1: give her superpowers. Have you observed anything along those lines? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know what the great teachers say, there's only one

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Speaker 1: thing that connects you to the ground in this game,

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Speaker 1: and that's your They don't say your echo shoes, but

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Speaker 1: in this case, it is her echo shoes. So that's

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Speaker 1: pretty cool. The secret to lydia Co's success, along with

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Speaker 1: many other talents. But she's wearing the right footwears all

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Speaker 1: right back to na fourth. I think it's appropriate that

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Speaker 1: just a minute ago, Jeff Ogilvie and my distinguished colleague

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Speaker 1: and I observed Alan Ship fixing his hair because many

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Speaker 1: people would say that our next guest has one of

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Speaker 1: the great heads of hair, and all of golf shipnuks

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Speaker 1: on the short list. Uh, Robert Rock, Jeff, you ever

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Speaker 1: played with Robert Rock? Robert Rock go fantastic, Hay antasted

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Speaker 1: to her, how's this golf game? Um? Probably the most

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Speaker 1: admired golf swaying to our Actually, Robert Rock is a

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Speaker 1: fantastic golf swing, and he is the he's the man

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Speaker 1: to go to for questions about technique. But held, his

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Speaker 1: hair is probably better than his swing. He's got he's got,

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Speaker 1: he's got our guest test by blues hair. But I

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Speaker 1: don't want you to try to guess it just on

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Speaker 1: that basis, because I want to say this about our

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Speaker 1: guest first. So I was I was at the Father's

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Speaker 1: Son event last year and Roger was there. The course

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Speaker 1: whisper Alan, Can he help us out? Who's the course whisper?

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Speaker 1: Roger Maltby? Roger Maltby, And I said to Roger, the

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Speaker 1: course whisper does aunt Trevino is there? Does anybody know

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Speaker 1: more about the golf swing? Then Trevino and Rodge like

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Speaker 1: a lot of professional golfers, super precise, and he said,

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Speaker 1: I would say that nobody knows more about his or

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Speaker 1: her own swing. Then Buck leave Buck Trevino knows about

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Speaker 1: his own swing. And I thought that was a very

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Speaker 1: nuanced answer. But our guest today and then we'll really

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Speaker 1: open up for you guys to identify the guests is

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Speaker 1: absolutely on the shortlist of the six people in the

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Speaker 1: world who are the most knowledgeable about the golf swing.

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Speaker 1: Anyone cared to try on on that basis hair knowledgeable

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Speaker 1: about the golf swing, Um, it's it's it's not lead better.

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Speaker 1: He never takes his hat off, put Harmon's bald um.

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Speaker 1: I got Grady, Oh my god, great head of hair

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Speaker 1: back to the day, but I haven't seen since the eighties. Actually, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Grady's hair is bamburger esque when now that I think

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Speaker 1: about it, Yeah, yeah, you know he he had Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: is this is this man of one time winner on

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Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. This man is a winner in life

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Speaker 1: and on the man warmth, Jeff, You've played multiple, multiple

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Speaker 1: rounds of golf with this guy, this this distinguished guest

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Speaker 1: of bars. Although I don't know that for sure, but

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how that could not be possible.

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Speaker 1: And he warmed up next to Tiger Woods at the

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Speaker 1: two thousand US Open on the Pebble Beach course, and

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Speaker 1: he was trying to do his own thing. He was

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Speaker 1: in the field and uh, and like any of us,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't stop looking. Uh. And he said to himself,

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Speaker 1: then this guy's gonna win by fifteen. Oh. That's another

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Speaker 1: quality of this guest of ours. He's good at predicting things,

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Speaker 1: often based on statistical analysis. He has a great head

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Speaker 1: for the golf swing. He's got a great head of hair,

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Speaker 1: and he's got a great head for statistical analysis. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say, Brandy sham believe, Jeff, are you gonna second

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Speaker 1: that um Brando does have good hair? Is he super

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Speaker 1: people out the golf swing? Well, he says debate Randal

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Speaker 1: Sham Blake, come on and yes, Brandella, No, I was

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Speaker 1: being kept in the dark called purpose. So it's probably best.

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Speaker 1: It's probably best. Sorry I missed it, probably for the better.

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Speaker 1: Tune in. It's it's a pleasure to join you, guys,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Alan, Michael, how are you, guys? Where are you guys?

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Speaker 1: All over the world? In California? Just down under? I'm

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Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. Where are you, Brendle, I'm at Scottsdale. I'm

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Speaker 1: home as well. I've been home for the last two

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Speaker 1: weeks or so, something like that. But I leave tomorrow

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Speaker 1: the head to the East Coast, which is a common

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Speaker 1: occurrence these days for Mace. It's called channel move to Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: I'm deeply curious how many books on your bookcase in

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Speaker 1: the background. It is in the same bookcase behind Michael.

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Speaker 1: I want it's for another time. We'll have to sort

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Speaker 1: that out, but there's got to be a few that

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Speaker 1: you both have on those sagging shelves. It's funny. I

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Speaker 1: got some of Michael's behind me. I know that, I uh,

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Speaker 1: I got, I got there, you go. I didn't take

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Speaker 1: long to find one of Michael. Yeah, the Second Life

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Speaker 1: of Tiger Woods, Yeah that got that got dated really fast.

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Speaker 1: You play with brands Brandon was obviously been a long time.

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Speaker 1: Did we did we play? We must have? You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I looked you turned pro? Is that correct? Something like that?

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, you straightaway got onto the European tour,

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Speaker 1: but I think you made your way to the PG

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Speaker 1: eight tour like two thousand thousand one something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got three Q school Dan to two thousand started

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Speaker 1: in two thousand one. Yeah, he was still definitely out

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Speaker 1: there at that point. Ryan, Yeah, I didn't leave. Well,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't around for much longer after that. So two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two was last year I was fully exempt,

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Speaker 1: and then at two thousand three I I played a

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Speaker 1: little on the tour, but mostly I was doing television

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Speaker 1: by then. But I remember hearing about Jeff, uh really

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Speaker 1: first from Yeah. I mean, of course I would have

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Speaker 1: seen you or maybe played with you or something, but

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Speaker 1: really hearing about Jeff from Gary McCord. I guess he

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Speaker 1: was a frequent partner of yours. A gray Hawk or

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Speaker 1: not a gray Whisper Rock. Uh, I don't know. Two

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Speaker 1: thousand three or four or five, somewhere in there you

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Speaker 1: would have been a member. When did you join Whisper Rock.

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Speaker 1: I joined whisp Rock. I think towards the end of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two. I think, um, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: played with Magic almost every day. I think there for

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Speaker 1: a while, which I don't know. If I think there's

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Speaker 1: benefits to your golf education and some hindurance, theres right.

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Speaker 1: I'd tell you what, He's got a damn good record

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Speaker 1: at telling me who's gonna be awesome? Uh. In addition

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Speaker 1: to you, uh, which he's saying your praises. Long before

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Speaker 1: you won the US Open, you know, he was like,

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Speaker 1: you gotta watch this guy. Um what was it? You know?

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Speaker 1: He said, he it's at nine miles hits straight up

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Speaker 1: in the air, and he's got a great touch. I

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, all those things work. Another time, I

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Speaker 1: was on a plane flying to Pebble Beach album and

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Speaker 1: Gary McCord was sitting behind me. And now, Gary and

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Speaker 1: I've got along great forever. I mean, we've been buds forever.

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Speaker 1: I did a lot of hiking with Gary. I've spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with Gary. I just love him.

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Speaker 1: I've argued I think he's one of the fifty best

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Speaker 1: things that's happened to golf in the last fifty years.

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Speaker 1: Many times I think I even wrote that one. But

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Speaker 1: um anyway, he set behind me and he just won't

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Speaker 1: leave me alone, you know, and he's like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: got you gotta you gotta see this guy swing. You

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Speaker 1: gotta see this guy swing. And he comes up and

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, now the entire front of the plane

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Speaker 1: is interested in this guy's golf swing. And it was

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Speaker 1: bryceon d Shambo's golf swing when he was a senior

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Speaker 1: or junior at SMU, and I was the first time

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen it. And he was like, no, he

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Speaker 1: really does. He's a one point. You gotta see this

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Speaker 1: as more normous blah blah blah. And we're drawing lines

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Speaker 1: and we're doing all this stuff. And then in a

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Speaker 1: blink of an eye, I was playing in a straight

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Speaker 1: down event, uh, and Bryson was in the event, and

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Speaker 1: and you know, I had raged against the golf machine

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Speaker 1: for years, and I was so curious because he was

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Speaker 1: the first guy to come along, at least in my view,

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Speaker 1: and adopt ideas from the golf machine, who I would

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Speaker 1: say was better off because of that. Now, obviously that's

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Speaker 1: open to debate, but that's my view, and so I

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Speaker 1: was curious how he did it. So in the locker room,

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Speaker 1: I was like, holy hell, wait a minute, you don't

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Speaker 1: swing anything like all these guys who adopted golf machine philosophies.

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Speaker 1: And he goes, well, that's because I've I've got my

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Speaker 1: own view, you know, and there's a million of them

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Speaker 1: in there, and off he goes. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I said another word for an hour and a half,

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Speaker 1: and uh and and and off he went. Now this

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Speaker 1: is before he ever hit a shot on the PGA tour.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, anyway, that was a Gary McCord watch out

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Speaker 1: for this guy spot on, you know, dead ringer called

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Speaker 1: by Gary. So uh I diverge. We get back to

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Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvie, and I think my favorite Jeff Ogilvie's story.

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Speaker 1: And Jeff, you can tell you this is true because

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Speaker 1: I've told this story before, and hell if I even

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Speaker 1: though it's true, but I'm from Texas and rarely do

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Speaker 1: you will let facts get into the way of a

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Speaker 1: great story. But I hope it's true and that the

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Speaker 1: year you won the US Open, you played in the

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Speaker 1: Club Championship at Whisper Rock and did not win. Is

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Speaker 1: that is that story? True? True story? Yeah? I never

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Speaker 1: won the I never won the club Championship. Wispro. I think, um,

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Speaker 1: I probably played it four or five times, and that

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Speaker 1: might be the hardest tournament to win in the world.

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Speaker 1: I think club damship, I mean this club golfers tour

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Speaker 1: players regularly that cracks who beat you? Who beat you?

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Speaker 1: You won the national championship of our country, one of

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Speaker 1: the four majors, and you couldn't win your damn club championship?

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Speaker 1: Who beat you? If you guys won that? When I played,

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Speaker 1: I mean Jim Strickland, you know it's tricky. Played Arizona

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Speaker 1: State with Phil Yeah, he was my player, straight down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was it. Yeah. Yeah to Dempsey wanted a couple

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Speaker 1: of times, I think days, Um yeah, to a player,

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Speaker 1: UM yeah, I never managed. It was tough. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got probably I don't know, three or four two

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Speaker 1: of guys play it every year, and you've got five

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Speaker 1: or six or seven or eight other guys who have

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Speaker 1: thought of I sue golfers sort of sort of failed pros,

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Speaker 1: but they still find themselves into jobs where they don't

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Speaker 1: have to work and they just play golf every day,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's, um, it's an incredibly high standard.

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Speaker 1: What isn't there one day where they set the I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's a club championship. I think something else

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Speaker 1: where they set the pins and crazy spots and the

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Speaker 1: greens are at fifteen it's tipped out. It's like hell

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Speaker 1: day or something. What what is that, Jeff? It's the

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Speaker 1: battle of attrition? Yeah, um, And they set the course

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Speaker 1: up as ridiculous as they can. Yeah, and um, it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a joke, but it's kind of fun

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Speaker 1: for the good players. I mean, if you break eight,

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Speaker 1: you've probably it's like it's tough with the Nookemont set

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Speaker 1: up tough, you know, it's like out of control difficult. Um.

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Speaker 1: And every now and then some pros somehow manages to

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Speaker 1: keep it under the whole all day and shoot seventy

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Speaker 1: one or something. But most guys are shooting high seventies

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Speaker 1: and eighties, and this is a course where we're kind

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Speaker 1: of pretty regularly shooting in the sixties. So um. But

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Speaker 1: then they have the the the obverse to that um.

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Speaker 1: On St Patrick's Day they play the Green Tea where

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Speaker 1: we all go out of the very very maxifulward days

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Speaker 1: and just drawing at every poth fule grain and we

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Speaker 1: try to shoot in the fifties and stuff. So like,

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Speaker 1: give us a die. How does it convey in the

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Speaker 1: dye wards? It's the easiest convey and that kind of

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Speaker 1: the finest dice. That ye. So um. Good fun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they don't have a problem finding fun at the Whisper

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Speaker 1: Rock Alan, I gotta say, you look like you like

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Speaker 1: your Henry David Thureaux or something there in that house.

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Speaker 1: You look like you did you build that house yourself?

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Speaker 1: Are you? Are? You like you're just sitting in there

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Speaker 1: with a chair and a table and that's it. It's

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Speaker 1: like this Austere lifestyles. This is an old house and

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties in Carmel and the guy who who

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Speaker 1: basically built it, that's his kayak and it lights up

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Speaker 1: at night. There's there's um, you know, over my right shoulder,

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Speaker 1: there's there's illuminates and it was a seaworthy vessel. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine and then these these are lights were

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Speaker 1: fishing baskets have been repurposed and there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: hanging light. It was the spine of a of like

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Speaker 1: a wind primitive insurfer. It's made of wood. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's really beautiful. So it's all the old carmel Stone fireplace,

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Speaker 1: so it's it's got some character. But yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of jokes because I don't even really

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Speaker 1: The thing about social media you have to really sweep

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Speaker 1: the background. You have to think carefully about anything it's

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Speaker 1: in the view of the trolls because they won't pick

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Speaker 1: up on the most random items that you don't even notice.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, there's always a lot of jokes about

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Speaker 1: the boat house. But right the screenshot and then zoom in,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, they're crazy, I know. And then try

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Speaker 1: to cancel you for something you have in your background. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: brand out there, you're gonna get the observation that Schipnuk

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Speaker 1: was that a retreat for the Jewish theological seminary gathering

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Speaker 1: of Rabbi's somewhere in the California Redwoods, because he's looking

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Speaker 1: more and more like rap here. But it's all good

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Speaker 1: I'd like to brag about and I do this periodically, Brandle,

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Speaker 1: and one could easily do it of you and not

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Speaker 1: too many other people who have went on tour. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Mr Ogilvy just dropped a word that I've never in

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Speaker 1: my life used once of obverse? Was it? Did I

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Speaker 1: use it in the right contact that I would? Sure?

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Speaker 1: It was perfect? And I'm going to send you at

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Speaker 1: some point. And brands are very talented. I mean, of course,

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Speaker 1: one of the great keen observers of of of the

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Speaker 1: modern day golf life there is, but Brandon, you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: love to see this. Chevnik and I were on with

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Speaker 1: Jeff shortly before the the Open on the on the

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Speaker 1: old course, and uh, we just asked him, you know,

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Speaker 1: what do you think the course? And he went on

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Speaker 1: for about I don't know, Hollan, would you say two

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Speaker 1: and a half minutes? It was longer than that, much

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Speaker 1: longer than that. And and Brandon, you could literally you

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Speaker 1: could just insert a couple of semicolons here and there

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Speaker 1: and just run it in Sports Illustrated tomorrow. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was such a beautiful statement on what what the old?

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Speaker 1: If I could pay Jeff a compliment, I you know,

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Speaker 1: every time I read Jeff Uh, I think it's hard

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Speaker 1: to believe that guy got that good at golf because

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Speaker 1: it looks like he spent that much time writing. So

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Speaker 1: you're a wonderful writer. Obviously you're very smart. So um.

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Speaker 1: You know, often the conversation uh in in golf TV

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Speaker 1: circles is who would make a great commentator or analyst?

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Speaker 1: You know, they're they're on the constant lookout. But your

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Speaker 1: name is always at the top of the list. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're still ready to play, and you're still

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Speaker 1: gonna keep playing and all that. But but there's a

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Speaker 1: career waiting for you out there talking about golf for sure,

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Speaker 1: and writing about it. I still I still wake up

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Speaker 1: thinking about hating golf shots, not watching golf shots. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's really really hard to kill that bug. I get it.

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Speaker 1: I hit golf balls. My wife and I played the

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Speaker 1: last three days, UH, and then I went out and

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Speaker 1: she took off to place. He's with a group of

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Speaker 1: girls playing Pioneers today. But I went out hit golf

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Speaker 1: balls today. I'm sixty years old and I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: going to Q school UH in December. The bug never

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Speaker 1: leaves you. You have a couple of good rounds and

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Speaker 1: I think, oh, yeah, I got it, you know, And

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Speaker 1: these days, at sixty, getting it really is just when

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Speaker 1: you wake up and your back doesn't hurt, your almost

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Speaker 1: don't hurt, your wrist on hurt, and I think, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: hell I can. I can still play this game. The

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Speaker 1: bug never leaves you. So tell me do you think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've obviously analyzed the golfing a lot and

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Speaker 1: thought about it and messed around with it and observed

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Speaker 1: a lot in the last twenty or thirty years. Do

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Speaker 1: you think if you had your young man's body now,

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Speaker 1: with what you know, you would have been better? Yes? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I do, Jeff, because I didn't I didn't know enough

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Speaker 1: when I was and and I'm not faulting the instructors

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Speaker 1: that I worked with, but there was no such thing

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Speaker 1: as YouTube. There was no way to check their information.

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Speaker 1: They were on the cover of golf magazine. So whatever

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Speaker 1: they said, you know, you you thought was gospel. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But if I knew now, or if I knew then

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Speaker 1: what I know now, I would say, well, hold on

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Speaker 1: a second, whoever did it that way? Uh? And and

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Speaker 1: and the way I'm doing it is how Tom Watson

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Speaker 1: did it, and how Jack Nicholas did it, uh, and

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Speaker 1: how Bobby Jones did it, and how Ben Hogan did it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I would say, with all due respect, I think

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Speaker 1: you're wrong. I didn't do that. I said, you know, you,

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Speaker 1: you must know what you're talking about. Your cover your

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Speaker 1: names everywhere. And so I listened to them. I was curious,

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Speaker 1: and I enjoy golf instructors. I enjoyed sitting around and

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Speaker 1: talking about philosophy. So I slowly adopted those those philosophies

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Speaker 1: to the extent that I could no longer find my

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Speaker 1: way back home again. You know, in college, I can

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Speaker 1: remember one time being asked, you know, why are you

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Speaker 1: so good? And I was, I was very good. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I thought, well, gosh, I hit it high, and

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Speaker 1: very few people can hit it past me. Uh, those

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty good place to start. And and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't sniff saying that. When I played the tour, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think the longest I ever was on tour was

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Speaker 1: I think I cracked the top ten and driving distance

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Speaker 1: one or top ten, top fifty and driving distance one year.

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Speaker 1: But otherwise I was, you know, on the shorter end

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Speaker 1: of the scale, you know, seventy five or something or

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Speaker 1: a hundred and um so slowly but surely, my my

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Speaker 1: horsepower left me. Um so yeah, I definitely do. I

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Speaker 1: just didn't have enough confidence um and my swing thought

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Speaker 1: there's a There was a very if I could say this, uh,

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Speaker 1: not a particularly popular movie. It didn't get seen that often,

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Speaker 1: but a friend of mine wrote it called Seven Days

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Speaker 1: in Utopia. Dave Cook is a sports psychologist, golf psychologists,

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Speaker 1: very religious guy. He wrote that book and it's based

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Speaker 1: loosely in fact, because there was a character that that

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Speaker 1: it was based around, a teacher from from Waco, Texas,

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Speaker 1: sort of a different version of Harvey Pinnick. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: that the genesis, you know, the gist of the book

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Speaker 1: is that this broken down tour pro car breaks down

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Speaker 1: in the small town and he goes to see this

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Speaker 1: tour pro because you've got nothing to do. He's stuck

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Speaker 1: in the town for a week, and the golf professional

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Speaker 1: tells him, you know, he asked him, why do you

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Speaker 1: grip the club? Do you what you do? And he said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, And the golf professional looks at him

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Speaker 1: incredulously and says, well, how could you not know? An

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Speaker 1: answer to that, he goes, your homework tonight is to

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Speaker 1: go home, and I want you to write five pages

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Speaker 1: on why you grip the club the way you do,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it's like gracious. So you know the movie,

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Speaker 1: you know, the scene goes back and he's up all

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Speaker 1: night trying to figure it out and writes it, labors

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Speaker 1: over it, gets it written. It comes out the next

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Speaker 1: day and he's really excited to give it to this

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Speaker 1: teacher and the teacher goes, well, I don't want it,

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Speaker 1: and you throw that away and he was like, what

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Speaker 1: are you talking about. I stayed up all night to

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Speaker 1: write this, and he goes, it wasn't for me, it's

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Speaker 1: for you because when you get on tour and somebody

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Speaker 1: tries to tell you to change your grip, you will

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Speaker 1: now know why you grip it that way and you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to argue why you do and so um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think having the confidence in your own ability, uh,

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Speaker 1: and knowing why you swing the way you do is

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Speaker 1: is an invaluable to him because, Jeff, there are million

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Speaker 1: different golf swings, as you well know, in the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame across the line laid off, short, long, and

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Speaker 1: everything in between. M and trying to swing to some ideal. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not ideal. I would say, Jeff, I want

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Speaker 1: you to answer your own question, because I kind of

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Speaker 1: feel like, having got to know you a lot this year,

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00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 1: you might be better off if you could go back

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Speaker 1: to being just young and dumb and unencumbered and have

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Speaker 1: a free mind. Do you think that the game's become

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Speaker 1: easier or harder for you irrespective of you know how

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Speaker 1: your body has changed. Um Master is a bit similar

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Speaker 1: to Brandon. Actually, I knew what I was doing when

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Speaker 1: I was ten. I feel like um and gradually, but

397
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Speaker 1: you gotta get a lesson from the guy your dad says.

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Speaker 1: You know this causes he's a great teacher. He takees

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Speaker 1: some good players into what he says, and you can't

400
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: listen to what he says, and you do a little

401
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: bit and then you go on. And I got into

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Speaker 1: the system where I got the good coaching and stuff,

403
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: and I it seemed to make sense. And they put

404
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 1: your on camera next to Faldo or Norman or someone

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Speaker 1: who did it good. Back in the day, the video

406
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: camera was pretty prevalent, and I it just there was

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00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: somewhere deep inside always that I'm like, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure about this, but I'll do it because

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Speaker 1: these guys are supposed to know more than me, you know,

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Speaker 1: so I guess it's really um. Like branded just said,

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Speaker 1: you have to sort of trust and believe in what

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Speaker 1: you do. It's very difficult when you're a fifteen sixty

413
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Speaker 1: year old kid and you're being tilt by these grown

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Speaker 1: ups who are on magazine covers and they've taught tournament

415
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 1: winners and stuff like, well, he must know more than me.

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00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it'll feel better down the road, you know.

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Speaker 1: I'll do it now because it's there's this idea that

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Speaker 1: you're not there yet, but if you do all these things,

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00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: and there's this ideal that you're always chasing this ideal.

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Speaker 1: And it took me a really long time to realize

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00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 1: there is no ideal, you just them in. The secret

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00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: to golf is hitting it well. Now this shot that's

423
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: in front of you, and then go to the next

424
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: one and hit that shot really well. And the guy

425
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: who adapts the best is the best golfer, you know,

426
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: the guy who can get up to the shop just

427
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: hit the best shot and then walk up and work

428
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: out how that shot and hit that shot. This idea

429
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: that gets planted in at least it got planted in

430
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: my head. Um. And I think the eighties nineties at

431
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: video camera generation, that there was this ideal that you're

432
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: chasing and once you swing it like this, you're going

433
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 1: to be a good player, Um, and the ball will

434
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: go where you want. Is a flawed philosophy. I think

435
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: the best golfer is the best self teacher, and he

436
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: knows how to hit the shot that's in front of

437
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: him the best, you know, because every shot is different, Um,

438
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: every lie is different, every day is different. Your body

439
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: feels different every day. I mean, look every what are

440
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: the sciences to say, every six or seven years you're

441
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: a completely new person, all yourselves are gone and you're

442
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: you're rebuilt with something. I mean, you're completely new. You're more,

443
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: you're more of a pattern than you are a thing

444
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: as a human, you know. So just work out how

445
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: to manage that pattern the best and just hit the

446
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: best shot you can when you get to the ball.

447
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: If I and that's funnily enough, what I did when

448
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: I was a kid, Like I didn't practice swing the

449
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: night before I went to go and play a game

450
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: with dad when I was twelve. About this is how

451
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to swing in the next day. I was

452
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: just excited about the first T shirt off the first

453
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: and I hit that and I'll look where that went.

454
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to go get that, you know. So I

455
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: guess the long way around the the long way around

456
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: to get to the thing is. I wish I had

457
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: exactly like Brandon said, sort of had the strength of

458
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: mind or character to say, you know what, I know

459
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. I'm just going to play golf the

460
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: way I want to play golf. And I'm not saying

461
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: you're wrong, but this is me and I'm going to

462
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: do it like this. That being said, I think the

463
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: suffering that you deal with when you played two or

464
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: golf and you work on stuff that's certainly not correct

465
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: for you, but you bang your head against the wall

466
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: so hard because we're all told you have to work

467
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: really hard and you have to do this and if

468
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: you don't grind, you're not gonna be any good. And

469
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: I think every tour player has done that and created

470
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: suffering for themselves. It's just an absolute mass in your

471
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: mind and it just creates all their stress and anxiety.

472
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: Um the pot of gold is at the end of

473
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: that rainbow. And that's really what Hogan and Travino did,

474
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: is they just bang their head against the wall longer

475
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: than everyone else until they until they got there. You know, um,

476
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: I'm glad I've sort of done that. I feel like

477
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: I have a pretty good idea of how I play

478
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: golf now. I still certainly can't do it every day,

479
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: but I've got a pretty good idea of the sort

480
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: of the way I should go about it. I just

481
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: wish my body worked like it did when I was

482
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: twenty again. But I'm not too old, and I still

483
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: love playing golf and I still love discovering every day.

484
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: And every day I think I've worked it out. The

485
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: next day it shows me that I haven't, and then

486
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: I have to go a week or two before I

487
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: sort of get the little I've worked it out again,

488
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And then golf shows me

489
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: that I haven't. But that's the fun, I mean, that's

490
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: the game. I think. If there's anything that I, as

491
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: I said, I wish, I wish I hadn't believe there

492
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: was this ideal that I was going to get to.

493
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: I wish I realized that it was just, you know what,

494
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: work out how to play well, every single day today,

495
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: work out how to play well today, worry tomorrow tomorrow,

496
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: but today is did imply well today. So um, I

497
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: think it's a fascinating subject. I mean I could think

498
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: and talk about the golf swing and playing golf and

499
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: getting better at golf and having good scores forever, you know,

500
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: because I think it's you can't work it out. You know,

501
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: somewhere insiartists knows the answer. But the more you try

502
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: to tell at the end to the further away you

503
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: get from the answer. I think that's the finest part

504
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: of the game. Yeah, Jeff, was there was there, you know,

505
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: For me, there was you know, I think UM one shot,

506
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: at least when I was younger, that I that I

507
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: always tried to hit that just in I think intuitively

508
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: made me a better player. Um. I would go to

509
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: the range and I would try to hit you know,

510
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: a couple of hundred one irons, and I would try

511
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: to hit him as high and as hard as I could. Uh.

512
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: And it was that move really that made me, I think,

513
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: made me a better player, made me a much much

514
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: better player. And and then slowly I got coached out

515
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: of all those moves as I began to listen to instruction. Uh,

516
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: you know, after I got really really good. So it

517
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: was kind of I remember reading. Um, maybe it was

518
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: a Fred Couples, maybe it was a Jack Nicholas. It

519
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: was you know, Fred would talk about trying to get

520
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: his hands as fast as he could on his left shoulder,

521
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: and Jack would talk about, you know, trying to get

522
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: his hands to go down the target line. Um. But

523
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: anyway I would, I would, I would try to do that.

524
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: And if you think about what you have to do

525
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: to hit a one iron high and long, Um, you

526
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: know you're you're releasing it fully right. You're not a

527
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: lot of forward shaff lee. Uh, you're swinging up, you're

528
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: hitting it high. You're not thinking about technique. Uh. And

529
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: that one thought, you know, helped me in such good stead.

530
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you had like an epiphany, one moment

531
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: when you were younger that allows you to have a

532
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: breakthrough in the game. Um, I don't know. I mean

533
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 1: I started really young. I mean I was chipping ping

534
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: pong balls around the house when I was six or seven. Um.

535
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: But um, it's funny. I always gravitated as a kid,

536
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: as a really young kid to the hardest shot possible,

537
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: and like I did, like i'd have some doubt had

538
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: a set of remember the Nicholas mill Fields, the Blaze

539
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: and like back in those days you'd get the one

540
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: to three four all the way down and he never

541
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: used the one on. He had the pink one on,

542
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: I think, which everyone wanted. But I would take that

543
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: one on and just go to the range and want

544
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: to hit that. I just and there was an impossible

545
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: club to hit, but I just loved hitting the hardest

546
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: shot possible. Um. I'd go into bankers and the banker

547
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: shots with seven irons because I thought that was harder

548
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: than it was with a sandwige. Um. Yeah, I don't

549
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: know if I had any actual specific moment of clarity.

550
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: I used to I used to like mimicking whoever was

551
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: playing really well at the time. I'd go out and

552
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: try to feel like I swung like that, UM, and

553
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: that I think was really good because it was it's

554
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: field based, not it wasn't position based. I tried just

555
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: tried to look like Steve Elkington or looked like Greg

556
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: Norman or you know, I feel like what it feels

557
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: like to be Greg Norman. And I think it taught

558
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: me a lot about sort of you're fine, you sort

559
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: of edges, you know, like talk from the science point

560
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: of view. Bryson always talks about end range. But I

561
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: think when you you have a Lie Travino week, and

562
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: then you have a Nick Foulo a week, and then

563
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: you have a Tom Watson week, you're sort of discovering

564
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: all the different things you can do with your golf swing.

565
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: And I left my left heel for a week like Watson,

566
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: and then you keep it on the ground like Fowlo

567
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: for a week, and I just think I've found the boundaries,

568
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, and all the things that I

569
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't do, and the end product was my golf swing,

570
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: which was just a mismatter, like a sort of a

571
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: cocktail of everything I've ever tried to do, you know.

572
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: But I definitely, as a kid, gravitated to the harder

573
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: shot possible, which I think is really an interesting headspace

574
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: because the older you get, you kind of go the

575
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: other way. You try to go to you trying to

576
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: practice the stuff you can do, and you could have

577
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: go away from the stuff you can't do. Absolutely if

578
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: I could find out what went wrong, like my head's

579
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: but my head and I think you're seeing other kids

580
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: and I was eating my kids. Um, we've we've got

581
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: the mental side of golf worked out. When we're like ten,

582
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: Like every bit of new information that we get, we

583
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: get further away from that pure, sort of perfect sort

584
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: of golfer. You know. It's like we think we're doing

585
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: full pro shot routines and visualization all this. You just

586
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: instinctively naturally do that as a kid, you know, And

587
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: it's so much fun, and you don't worry about the

588
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: shot you just said before. You just get excited about

589
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: the next one you want to hit. You know, if

590
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: I could do anything, I'd try to put my twelve

591
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: year old brain onto this wise old person. I guess

592
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. So it's but does it come? Can

593
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: you get the Can you gain all that experience and

594
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: get all the scars and ever get back there? You know?

595
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: It's interesting, I mean, the whole idea of like having

596
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: your own swinging. A few years ago and Dustin Johnson

597
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: was clearly like the best golfer in the world. I

598
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: asked him, like, if you couldn't touch a golf club

599
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: for one year, how long would take you to get

600
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: back to where you are right now. And he said, well,

601
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: could I work out and the train and yeah, yeah,

602
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: you can keep in good sheep whatever. He's like the

603
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: maybe two And you know, Dustin's unique, but you know

604
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: for him, he's like it's it's in him, it's who

605
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: he is. He hasn't really changed his swing that much.

606
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: And I always thought that was a fascinating answer. Um,

607
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean what about you guys if you didn't touch

608
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: a club for a year, but you know you could,

609
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: you could stay in fighting shape, Like is your swing

610
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: now so hardwired into into your your nervous system that

611
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: you could just find it right away? It would it

612
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: be a long process of rediscovery. Oh for me, I

613
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: mean I'd hit it. I would hit the ball okay, Um,

614
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: it wouldn't take long too to look really good to

615
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: you guys, but it would the last five percent would

616
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: take a while. You know. Um, it's quite hard wired.

617
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: But like I mean, day, I believe it about Daija

618
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: because I mean, DJ there's two sorts of golficer there's

619
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: guys who try to hit it a certain way and

620
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: there's guys who trying to swing in a certain way.

621
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: And Dji it's just a guy who tries to hit

622
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: it a certain way. And I think the guys who

623
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: try to hit it a certain way, he's thinking about

624
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: the shot he's hitting, not about the swing he's making.

625
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: So I think would come back comes back quicker for

626
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: Gala that especially, Sin's a great athlete. Um, But there's

627
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: other guys who, like Brauston is trying to swing in

628
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: a certain way because he knows that's going to get

629
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: there was already once and I think that guy needs

630
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: to put the whole thing back together, you know, before

631
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: he hits the shots. Um, I don't know, I'd be

632
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: back reasonably quick. But the shop this would it would

633
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: take a long time to like shopping the pencil. Yeah,

634
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: I mean, look all that, all that work you've done

635
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: your whole life. It counts, you know. I don't know

636
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: if you've ever read a book by His name was

637
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: Daniel Coyle. He wrote The Talent Code. You ever read

638
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: that book? Anybody ever goes with it? Yeah, that's fascinating book.

639
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: And it just talks about the milin nation that goes

640
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: on when you're learning something in it. Um, you know

641
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: that counts, right, So you know, Hogan had famously had

642
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: that accident in February of and you know, almost exactly

643
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: a year later, he tied at the l A Open,

644
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: and he would have had five days to pract us

645
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: before going to that l A Open. And he played

646
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: no more than a handful of times the rest of

647
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: his career, even through you know, the bulk of what

648
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: was left of you know, you could call his his

649
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: um flush career through three he was only playing a

650
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: handful of times, and he he still had the forum. Um.

651
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean all that work you've done in

652
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: the past accounts that last five percent, as Jeff said,

653
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 1: is you know, being able to flight shots, hitting them

654
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: through trajectories, carrying him the right distance. You'd have to

655
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: go out there and play very conservative golf because you

656
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: would you would be able to even if you've been

657
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: working out, you wouldn't be able to clear as fast,

658
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to stretch as much. You wouldn't be

659
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: able to swim, get your hands as high, or there

660
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: would be loads of things you wouldn't be sharp at.

661
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: You know, you just wouldn't be as good around the greens,

662
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: your touch wouldn't be as good. And that's that last

663
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: five percent that Jeff's talking about. But yeah, I would

664
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: be okay, I've actually gone a year and not touched

665
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: a golf club. In the last years I've I I

666
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: went somewhere in there, I would have gone to three

667
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: years and hardly touched a golf club. So, you know, uh,

668
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: I remember I hadn't played no tournament golf for fifteen years,

669
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: and and my wife and and only like three or

670
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: four rounds a year. And my wife was after me

671
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: because the Senior Open was at St. Andrews, and she

672
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: was like, you know, don't you think that'd be cool

673
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: to play one senior event. I was like yeah, and

674
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, the Open was at Carnousti and and so

675
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'll enter it. And then and then

676
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: like two months went by and I hadn't touched the

677
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: club and picked up a club. And one day I

678
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: went in to brush my teeth and there was a

679
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: note on the on the on the mirror that said

680
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: it's fifty three days until the Senior Open qualified and

681
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: you haven't touched a club, and uh and uh I

682
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: started laughing. I went out there and she was like, listen,

683
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 1: if you don't want to play, don't play. But if

684
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: you're going to try to qualify, you should at least

685
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: give it an for it, because look, I mean, golf

686
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: is so far down on my priority list now, it's

687
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: We've got a million other things. I love golf, I

688
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: absolutely love it, but it's just it's it's ten or

689
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: twelve on my priority list. So I just always had

690
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: other things to do. So I was like, all right,

691
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: I'll go practice. And then you know, after a month,

692
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: my body hurt, like hell um, I get up every

693
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: morning be like, holy how did I do this? You know,

694
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 1: you know, and I calluses and and I was thinking

695
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: about golf again. And you know, it's like I'm come

696
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: home pissed if I didn't play well or hit it well.

697
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: And um, but it was you know, look it was.

698
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: It was a fun few months. But it took it

699
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: took a lot to get that last five percent that

700
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: Jeff is talking about. I'm not sure I actually got it,

701
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: but I did well enough to qualify and uh, and

702
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: that was fun. I'm grateful for having, you know, given

703
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: it sort of one last shot. So to speak to

704
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: your to your point, I remember, surely after Jack turned

705
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: necklastern fifty. Uh, but you know, he didn't want to

706
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: keep beating up on those guys they had been beating

707
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: up on all his life. Um, thank you Brando for

708
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: remember and uh uh he was going bad himself, like

709
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: for a three weeks stretch, let's say. And I said

710
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: to Jack, if if Jack Grout had died, you know,

711
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: a year or two earlier, And I said, what if

712
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: Grout could watch you today? How long do you think

713
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: it would? And I remember this like it was yesterday.

714
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: It was at Darrell. I said, if Gret we're live today,

715
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: what you know, you guys could be on the range together,

716
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: how long do you think would take him to get

717
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: to get you straight? And Inclist went like this, I'd

718
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: be bit I keep fixed me like and he went

719
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: like that like that, and it was neat. It was

720
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: a neat moment. And then and when when Jeff was

721
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: talking about running from this, you know in this instructor

722
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: and the age of the video and all the rest,

723
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: and Brandon, this is a long set up for something.

724
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear you weigh in on. I would

725
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: thought I would have thought now Tiger was a prodigy.

726
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: He had a beautiful swing even before he went't so Butch,

727
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: but he improved a lot under Butch. And now Butcher

728
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: with without out knowing anything, Jeff about who you would

729
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: have seen at that age or brandom you for that

730
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: matter as well. When he went to see Butcher, Butcher

731
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 1: had worked with Sloom and he won a major, David's

732
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: love and won a major, worked with of course Greg Norman,

733
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: who was the number one player in the world at

734
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: the time that Tiger went to see him. So to

735
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: Jeff's point, earlier, Tiger wasn't running around, and Earl wasn't

736
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: gonna let him run around. He was like, this is

737
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: your guy. This guy works with Norman and now and

738
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: now he's working with you, and of course normally got

739
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: pushed out or left. So I don't think Tiger ever

740
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: had that question of flavor of the month or let's

741
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: look at this video. And so I think that's one

742
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: of the reasons why we talked about the Tiger Butch

743
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: era is such a magical period for golf, in such

744
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: a marriage period for swinging the club beautifully, and Brando,

745
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: you and I talked about Tiger two thousand on the

746
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: practice at at Pebble Beach. But I wonder Brandon, if

747
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: you could offer your your thoughts on that about the

748
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: the out commedia with the chemistry is probably between Butcher

749
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: and Butch and Tiger. I would say Tiger got very

750
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: lucky there, um, in the same way that Jack Nicholas

751
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: got very lucky. Um. You know when he went out

752
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: to that range in nifty at si Oto. Uh, they're

753
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: on that range. To help him was Jack Grout. Now,

754
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: Jack Grout, as I'm sure all of you well known,

755
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, UM, you know, his his tutelage in the

756
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: game derives from Alex Morrison. Um. And and there's a

757
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: direct link between the golf that Alex Morrison taught and

758
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: Henry Picard played, and Ben Hogan played, um and to

759
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: some extent, Bobby Jones. And so you know, Jack Grout

760
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: was taught by Alex Morrison, who taught rolling the heels,

761
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 1: who taught lifting the left heel on the back swing,

762
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: who taught turning the head to the right in the

763
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: backswing and keeping your head to the right in the

764
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: back swing, which allows that great separation so in try position.

765
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: And so Jack Grout, there's Jack Grout who had the

766
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: best of both worlds. He was I would say lucky

767
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: in his instruction and also came at it from a

768
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: plane background. So there, Jack Nicholas is a good athlete,

769
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: and thankfully he ran into Jack Grout, who knew exactly

770
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: what Jack Nicholas needed, uh to get headed in the

771
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: right direction. Tiger similarly at least in Butch. Butch had

772
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: a plane background and also sort of a highly technical

773
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: background and being taught by his father. If you know,

774
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: I'll give Butch a huge compliment, uh, and that none

775
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: of his players look alike, none of them. You know, Um,

776
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: they don't all swing flat, they don't all swing up right.

777
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: They don't swing down the line that swing across the

778
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: line laid off. They have flat. They have strong grips

779
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: and weak grips. You know, he worked with Freddie Couples,

780
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: and he worked with Jose Marian. All the thought, well,

781
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: you can't get a weaker weaker grip than Jose. You can't.

782
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: Are they get a stronger grip than than Freddie. You

783
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: can't get a flatter swing than is a. You can't

784
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: probably get a more upright swing than Freddie Couples. And

785
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,959
Speaker 1: he's worked with everything in between, so you know, uh,

786
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, let's imagine if if Tiger's father and I

787
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: give Tiger's father a lot of credit because he knew

788
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: the game but what if he would have And I'm

789
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: not going to throw anybody under the bus here, but

790
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: I think all of us can imagine him working with

791
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: two or three or four other teachers who would have

792
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: tried to impose upon Tiger a method some methodology, and

793
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: who knows if it would have stripped out of Tiger

794
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: the genius that that existed. Um. So you know, I

795
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: think you know Butch's you know, Butch is. He has

796
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: told me that before he lets somebody come work under him,

797
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: he makes them read like a prerequisite to working with

798
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: Butch as you know, learning from Butch, as them reading

799
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: John Jacobs book on golf swing to get just a

800
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: basic underlying philosophy about how to grip and how to

801
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: stand and all those things. And so I think Butch

802
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: really does is really rooted in the in the fundamentals

803
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: that he doesn't get tangled up and swinging a certain way. Uh.

804
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: And so you know that's where golf is very fortunate

805
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: that Tiger and Butch um or that Tiger met Butch

806
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: and didn't meet somebody else who might have imposed some

807
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: some theory on him and uh and robbed him of

808
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: his genius. It's interesting thought exercise what if they were

809
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: teaching at the naval course in Cyprus, California? The stack

810
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: and tilt? Have we even ever heard of tiger woods? Like? Um?

811
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: I mean it is that that that the happenstances, as

812
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: you say, and what what what led certain players to

813
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: certain places? Because you were you were talking about Bryce

814
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: and when my first job, when I was sixteen, I

815
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: was a cartboy at Quail Lodds, this little course in

816
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: Carmel Valley, and Ben Doyle was teaching there. And I

817
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: had no real golf education and Ben Doyle had this

818
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: this golf cart with all these contraptions, and he had

819
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: kids out there. They were hitting beach balls with rakes

820
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: all summer long, and I thought it was the weirdest

821
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: ship I've ever seen. And it was so over my head.

822
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: And of course, you know Bobby clamp It became the

823
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: ultimate um Ben Doyle disciple and and and never never

824
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: really achieved what people thought he was going to and um.

825
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like who you wind up with and

826
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: and how it all it all happens is a fascinating subject.

827
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: And it's sort of unique to golf, right because no

828
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: one really talks about like who Lebron James Is high

829
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: school coach was, you know, and in other sports, like

830
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: you're this incredible physical talent and you just find a way,

831
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: and there's there's people who help you or don't, but

832
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: it seems like they're all the cream always rises another sports,

833
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: but golf is is very unique in that way, like

834
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: the people you meet on your journey seemed to have

835
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: an outsized effect on on the athlete. Yeah, we're all

836
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: so obsessed with the golf swing, you know, the mystery

837
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: of it, the science of it, which again I mean,

838
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 1: which is why the book The Golf Machine, I think

839
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: is intrigued people. You know, I think that book was

840
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: written in the late sixties because it at least promised,

841
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: or at least promises um the reader, that you're gonna

842
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: be able to understand the golf swing after you read

843
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: this book. Now, I've read that book half a dozen

844
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: times at least in my life. I've taken notes on it,

845
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: I've broken it down, I've I've spent a lot of

846
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: time trying to understand that book. And I and I

847
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: still don't understand so so so so uh and I

848
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: and I look, I I've been to a few teaching

849
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: some seminars where huge proponents of that book stand up

850
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: and and take issue with me on that book. And

851
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, look, the reason I find so much fault

852
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: in that book, Uh, not to get too much into

853
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: the weeds here, but because it gets the simplest thing wrong.

854
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: So how can I how can I believe a book

855
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: as complicated as that book when it gets the simplest

856
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: thing wrong, which I believe it's very early on in

857
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: that book, like Age twelve, it talks about how the

858
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: head cannot move, that the golf swing must swing around

859
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: a fixed point, and likens the golf swing to a

860
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: machine in that regard. And you know, again this is

861
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: where if you had YouTube when I was, you know,

862
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: standing on the range and you know, teachers were telling

863
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: me to keep my head still, I would have taken

864
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: them through the top fifty p G eight Tour winners

865
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: of all time and the top fifty LPGA winners of

866
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: all time, and I would have pulled up all fifty

867
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: of their swings and said, not one of these players

868
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: keeps their head still, not one, not one, not even close.

869
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: Like they all move it huge off the ball and

870
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: up the ball, up off the ball, or off the

871
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: ball and down. But they all move it in a

872
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: big way, every single one of them. So why are

873
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: you teaching that. Um, It's just it's just it's just

874
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: not based in fact um and and and so that's

875
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's you know, without getting too much in

876
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: the weeds, that's you know. And it's interesting that you

877
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: talked about that, Alan, because I had and again I'm

878
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: not gonna name names and throw this fella under the bus,

879
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: but I had a very good junior player on my

880
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: high school team. Uh. He has a lot to do

881
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: with me even getting an integral He was a tremendous player.

882
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: And his father said to him, and his father hardly

883
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: had any money, but he scraped on enough money. He

884
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: said to his son, I can I will leave it

885
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: up to you. I'll send you to see Bob Toski

886
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: or Ben Doyle. I'll spend all the money and you

887
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: can go for an entire summer and work with either

888
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 1: one of these. And and this this young kid, uh said,

889
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: I'll go to Ben Doyle. And he was the number

890
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: one player on our team. And he was borderline the

891
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: number one player in the nation, uh, junior player. And

892
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: he came back from there and and just you know,

893
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: he just was never the player that he was before

894
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: he left. And so you know, again I'm I'm not

895
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: throwing Ben Doyle into the bus. He was trying to

896
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: help students. He was trying to understand the golf swing. Um,

897
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: but there's a danger in trying to impose a methodology

898
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: on every single player that comes through your door. Generally speaking,

899
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: teachers learned from athletes. Um, they learned from them. It's

900
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: not the other way around, you know, Um, you know

901
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: they they teachers generally don't innovate with an idea. It's

902
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: when the movement is discovered. Like if we're looking at

903
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, Kyle Berkshire with his movement. Okay, so he

904
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: wasn't taught that. He came to that empirically, nobody would

905
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: teach what he does that that step step, step up,

906
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: the goes right. Um. And so Bryson learned it from Kyle,

907
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: and Boom transformed himself from never having the top ten

908
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: in a major championship to finishing fourth and then winning

909
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: the US Open, uh where Jeff Ogilvy won it at

910
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: wingfoot And so you know, did he did did did

911
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 1: Bryson learned that from a teacher or did he learn

912
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: that from an athlete? So it's usually the genius that innovates,

913
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: and then teachers try to understand it and then help

914
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: others understand it and teaching. Uh. And there's a lot

915
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: of great teaching out there, a lot uh. And I

916
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: really have enjoyed teaching in the last five or six

917
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: years listening to teachers, because I think instruction has gotten

918
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 1: miles better. I think to be a really good teacher

919
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: requires so much wisdom and and what comes to mind

920
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: is something about and brand. Help me with the name

921
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: if you remember. But the fourtune year old kid from

922
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: China where he was fourteen at the time who made

923
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: the cut of the Masters, want and long, thank you

924
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, had an awkward swing, but at

925
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: fourteen it was good enough to make a cut in

926
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: the Masters. And uh. So I said to Billy Harmon,

927
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, the next week ago, what would you do

928
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: with this kid and build a harmor for those who

929
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: don't know, is which's kid brother and the son of

930
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: clude Hartman and uh And Billy said nothing. And I said, really,

931
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: he's got a weird looking swing. I mean, I was

932
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: aiding mon I was and Billy said, yeah, he's fourteen.

933
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: He just made the cutting the masters. You know, let

934
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: him figure it out. But I mean another guy would

935
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: be like, oh, we need to see this, this and this.

936
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: Like to to to Jeff's point, I'm gonna go a

937
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: quick one and then a longer one. Have at Percy

938
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: Boomers on learning golf? How would you? How would where

939
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: would that be in your on your list? If anywhere?

940
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: I have it, it's somewhere back here. I love that.

941
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: I love it. You know, the turn in the barrel philosophy. Again,

942
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 1: it's one of those philosophies that, uh it's it's beautiful,

943
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: it's wonderful, but it's just doesn't work and it's not true.

944
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: Uh you know, uh you know, uh, nobody turns into

945
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: barrel and plays this game great. Everybody moves off of

946
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: a golf ball. But but I love the book. I'll

947
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: tell you a quick story about that. I was. I

948
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: was once working and yeah, I don't want to throw

949
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: the instructors under bus, but I was working with David

950
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: leed Better. I'm not doing David led Better under the bus.

951
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: When you're from Texas and you're a golf person, you

952
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: gotta be really careful with that work bus in general

953
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: compare point um. So i'm i'm i'm I'm working with

954
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: David Leadbetter and UH. And one of David lead betters

955
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: acolytes comes out and he says, you're not gonna believe this,

956
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: and this will tell how long ago it was this

957
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: facts that we just got from this very well known teacher.

958
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: And David goes, oh, this is will be interesting, and

959
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: he said, Brando, you gotta come in and read this

960
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: facts with me. These are always entertaining. So going there

961
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: and the facts reads something along the lines of, how

962
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: dare you use the word transition without giving me credit?

963
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: I coined the phrase of the club that space where

964
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: the club's going into the backswing before you know, as

965
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,959
Speaker 1: it as it transitions from back swing to down swing.

966
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: I coined that as the transition, and and you should

967
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: give me credit every time you use it. And so

968
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: David went over to Percy Boomer's book. UH pulled out

969
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,479
Speaker 1: and David Knew found the spot where Percy Boomer used

970
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: the word trail position. UH. Put it face down on

971
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: the facts. Close the facts set the facts that a letter.

972
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 1: Percy Boomer coined the word and I'm sure somebody used

973
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: it before Percy boomer, So every time you use it,

974
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: you should give them that. And I left there and

975
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that is how petty, uh instruction can be.

976
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: I mean these were the other Fellow was a monster

977
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: in the you know, monolith in the in the teaching industry. Um.

978
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: But but anyway, that's a beautiful book. Uh. You know,

979
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: I love it and I don't fault them. It's just like,

980
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's a wonderful theory. It's it's also it's

981
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: another one of those theories like resist with your lower

982
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: body so that you can build up tension and hit

983
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: it farther and those those are wonderful theories. They're like

984
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: I likened it to the geocentric model of the universe.

985
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful theory. It sounds great. Um, it's beautiful.

986
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 1: It's just wrong. Uh. That's that's all there is to it. Branda.

987
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: Where were you situate when Jeff won the US Opening

988
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: two thousand and six on the wing foot course. Let's

989
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: see where were we? I was? I was? You know that.

990
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: The thing is is that I have to really work

991
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: hard to watch the end of golf tournaments, if you

992
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: can believe that, because normally we're setting somewhere where we

993
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: can take it all in right, and then we have

994
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: to get from there to our set, you know, within

995
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: thirty minutes before we go on air. If we're coming

996
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: on the air at six o'clock at five thirty, we

997
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: gotta get there. And so in that last thirty minutes

998
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy stuff happens. Typically, but typically you

999
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: get up there and they're like, oh, yeah, so and

1000
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: so made the putt and so and so I didn't

1001
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: make the putt, and then you get my notes set

1002
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: and then I get locked in. Well, in the last

1003
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: hour of that tournament, all hell breaks loose. You know,

1004
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: Jeff chips in from par at seventeen, gets the up

1005
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: and down at eighteen, and then everybody collapses. You know,

1006
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: I'll call him Montgomery and Burrick and Phil and uh

1007
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: and so you know, I remember getting up to the

1008
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: set uh and and I'm like what who he did what?

1009
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: And you know, and at that point, the US Open

1010
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,720
Speaker 1: didn't have shot link um and so you know, trying

1011
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: to catch up and get ready to come on the air,

1012
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: and then you think, well, Phil is gonna win anyway,

1013
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: and then he gets there and then not all unfold.

1014
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: So you know, I was on the set trying to

1015
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: wrap my arms around it. Like the rest of the world.

1016
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: Phil was about to win three majors in a row,

1017
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: you know he had, right, he had just one? What

1018
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: did he won? He won? Uh so that's two thousand six.

1019
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: So had Phil won the two thousand five p g A,

1020
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 1: he won the two thousand six Masters. This was going

1021
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: to be his third major in a row, which, by

1022
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: the way, cracks me up because as soon as he loses,

1023
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: he switched his teachers because you know, he couldn't find

1024
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: the fairway or whatever. But meanwhile, damn near won three

1025
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: majors in a row and the and then Tiger goes

1026
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 1: on an epic run, you know, starting at hoy Lake.

1027
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible how the whole thing flipped. If

1028
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: if Phil wins that the open at Wingfoot, he's three

1029
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: corters away to the Tigers lam, he goes to number

1030
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: one for the first time ever. He's gonna be a a

1031
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: Player of the Year for the first time, Like you

1032
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 1: could for the first time, you could say with a

1033
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: straight face that he's an equal to Tiger Woods. And

1034
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 1: and then one hole everything changed, and and Tigers around

1035
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: the afterburners, right, I mean, that was. You know, it

1036
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: was obviously a monumental moment for Jeff, but it was

1037
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: one of the more bizarre endings to a golf tournament.

1038
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: Great commentary by Johnny Miller. You know, I think his

1039
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: comments were, you know, he doesn't have to ride the

1040
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 1: white horse, something along those lines. You know, he doesn't

1041
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: have to be the hero here. Uh And and of course,

1042
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: you know everybody watching sports loves to be, you know,

1043
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: second guest, the athlete. Um. I've heard Phil give his

1044
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: take on that, something about he would have hit a four,

1045
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: would but he thought he was going to leave it

1046
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: too long a shot, and you know, he worked this

1047
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: whole way through it. But amazing thing to me is,

1048
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, he had hit two fairways that

1049
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: day standing on the teh and he had the dad

1050
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: gum lead in the US open Um. You know. Uh,

1051
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: So that was you know, that was quite the accomplishment

1052
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: from Phil, just to get it around that golf course

1053
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: from from the right. It was a bit like Sevy

1054
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: later in his career when he couldn't find a fairway,

1055
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: but just through guile and guts, uh managed to hang

1056
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: in there. Jeff, you've you've never talked about this with Phil.

1057
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: Have you like you've never wrapped out about that whole thing?

1058
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: Not really, it's a hot I mean, um, he was

1059
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: pretty good about it on the last on the gray

1060
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: on the presentation, and like he turned up the presentation,

1061
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: and I don't think Monty did. Um. Um, he was

1062
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: pretty good about it. He looked white, like he was

1063
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: pretty in shock. Um. And I actually at the time,

1064
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: well very soon after that, for about the next sort

1065
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: of two or three years, I leaving right next door

1066
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: to Bones, So we talked about it a few times. Um. Look,

1067
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: I didn't we didn't bring it up. We had a

1068
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: couple of little lighthearted cracks about it, me and Phil.

1069
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: I think I never wanted to bring up is pretty sensitive.

1070
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean, um, like Brandle said, it was, nobody else

1071
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: could have been leading the US Open on the last

1072
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: hole hitting it the way he was hitting it. There's

1073
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: just no way, not around there, maybe not around anywhere.

1074
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: But um, it was just when you're sort of afterwards,

1075
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: you see what happened was like Wow, there was probably

1076
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: a sense of inevitability about it because of his whole

1077
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: U S open sort of thing. It was a bit

1078
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: of this amp sneed he was open history. But on

1079
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: the other hand, the whole week, it felt like it

1080
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: was his tournament. As Brandle said, he's won two majors

1081
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: in a row. Um Tiger missed the cut. I think

1082
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: for the first time in a major maybe um um yeah.

1083
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: As a pro m. I think Earl had died just

1084
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: after the Masters, maybe his father passed, so it was

1085
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: a tough period. He turned out without your practice, so

1086
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody held it against him. But it

1087
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: was like, as you said, Phil's time for shine, and

1088
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: he was sort of it was his coronation, right, he

1089
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: was walking around New York. Of New York. The loved him.

1090
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: Um yeah. And I just this wasn't meant to be.

1091
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't begrudge the driver. I

1092
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: think the addenth wingfoot is always a driver. Um. I

1093
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: don't understand the second shot. I've never understood why you

1094
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't just pitch it out. And I had nine I

1095
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: drive and nine on him, and if he pitched it

1096
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: a hundred yards up the fairway, he would had eight

1097
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: yards and that's that's Phil's wheel had. I don't understand

1098
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: that second shot, not really the drive, but anyway, it

1099
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 1: worked out well for me. It was really it was

1100
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: so bizarre. Even the presentation there was no screen like

1101
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: they have these days, or there was just a leaderboard

1102
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 1: on one side of the one side of the eighteenth Green.

1103
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: I guess it's on the right hand side. So we

1104
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: went to presentation. The whole Green thought he'd made five.

1105
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: They never saw that. They thought his second shot went

1106
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: into the back banker, not his third shot. And so

1107
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: there's this whole one side of the thing saying, what

1108
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: are they all coming out for? Isn't there a playoff tomorrow?

1109
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: Because they didn't have a clue. It's only half the

1110
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: ad eighth Green spectators knew that it was over in

1111
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: the red carpet was coming out under the green stuff.

1112
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: So it was. It was a fascinating period. I mean,

1113
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: everybody's stories about it almost more fun than mine because

1114
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 1: there were so many different things that happened in the

1115
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: last hour. And I really only know, you know, from

1116
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: my perspective. You know, I was just trying to make

1117
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: power in the last few hours and see how it worked,

1118
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: you know. And I've watched it a few times. I

1119
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 1: haven't watched it too much, to be honest. I don't

1120
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: never really like watching my own Gulf tournaments back, I'd

1121
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 1: rather watch other people win tournaments. Finally enough, but um yeah,

1122
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: fascinating times interesting. Yeah, I mean it's I don't know

1123
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: what kind of adds to the film because in law

1124
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: a little bit done and it's like that sneat story.

1125
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: I mean, how did he not manage to win when

1126
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: he got so close so many times? He was arguably

1127
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: the best US Open player of my generation. Um, you

1128
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: always seemed to be in it, you know, I just

1129
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 1: couldn't get it over the line. Yeah, what a statement, right,

1130
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: I mean if I would have lost a lot of

1131
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 1: money on Phil finishing second, I've lost track that he

1132
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 1: as he finished second six times. I would have lost

1133
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: a lot of money on that. Now, I mean I

1134
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 1: would argue some of that has to do with bizarre circumstances.

1135
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: I would argue, you know, the graduated philosophy that the U.

1136
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 1: S g A adopted played into that. Um I would

1137
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: argue that the solid quirk goff ball had a lot

1138
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: to do with that, because even the straightest of hitters

1139
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: ended up in the rough more often, and that's where

1140
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: Phil lived. Um So there were there were things that

1141
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: that played into that, certainly, but just still the idea

1142
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: that that if you listed the top forty players of

1143
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 1: all time, Phil would be either be thirty nine or forty.

1144
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: In terms of accuracy, you know, in my book, I

1145
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: mean it's Sevy and Phil and and their neck and neck. Um,

1146
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: and I don't know who is the most most inaccurate.

1147
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: But and the fact that Phil would have could have

1148
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: easily won three or four US Opens is crazy to me.

1149
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: But that speaks to Phil's unbelievable talent and belief. You know,

1150
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Phil Mickelson's stories is his friends.

1151
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: You would know these guys, Jeff. You know Rob MAGGINI, uh,

1152
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: Rob Mangini and of course Alan, you would have talked

1153
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: to Rob Mangini when here's a great source from my book. Yeah,

1154
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: so I love Rob Mangini and Jim Strickland and their

1155
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: buds of mine. And uh Rob tells a story I

1156
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: might have even told this story to you, Alan, but

1157
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: tells a story about they had they had hired all

1158
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: these great instructors, Jeff. This fits perfect with what we

1159
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: were just talking about earlier. Um, they had hired all

1160
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: these great instructors to come in and work with the

1161
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: A s U team. I think it was Steve Lloyd,

1162
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, you've got all these great instructors. Come in.

1163
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna have the best instruction for this team. And

1164
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: they get there and everybody's there but Phil. And so

1165
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: Steve Lloyd says to Mangini, you know, go get Phil.

1166
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: I he's on the back of the range. Back there,

1167
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: go getting It's mandatory telling to get his ass up here.

1168
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: So Rob drives back there and he's like, hey, popping

1169
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: the cart. We gotta go. The guys are here, and

1170
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: he was like, I'm not going. He's like, there's not

1171
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: one thing those guys are gonna tell me that is

1172
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: gonna make me a better player. Not one thing nothing

1173
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: they're gonna tell me it's gonna make me better. And

1174
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: he was like, what are you talking about. These are

1175
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: the best teachers in the world. That flew all the

1176
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: way here. He's paying a no, not going to coach.

1177
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely not a deal breaker. Nobody's messing with my golf swing.

1178
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: I didn't do that. I mean my job. I wasn't

1179
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: as good as Phil in college, but I wasn't that

1180
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: far off. I mean, you know I would have been

1181
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: in the top five. I think I got rated, you know,

1182
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: fourth best player in the country or something or um. So,

1183
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: I mean I was, but I didn't do that. I

1184
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: went and listen to him. Um and I think I

1185
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: think that that's that kind of belief is is as

1186
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: rare as the talent that Phil had. I would say, well,

1187
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to break away from this thrilling podcast because Brann,

1188
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: she really is a riveting guest. But we have to

1189
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: pay a few bills. So we'd like to thank our sponsor,

1190
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: Link Soul. They're helping make a need a fourth possible.

1191
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: As you surely know you know, Link Soul is a

1192
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've been wearing it for

1193
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: least a decade. It's cool stuff, it's super comfy, and

1194
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: one of the Firepit loves it. We're believers. If you

1195
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: go to links all dot com and use the promo

1196
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: code fire Pit twenty five, you will get off your purchase.

1197
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: You're welcome, and we're also giving away a two links

1198
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: old gift card per episode. So go to the Firepit

1199
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: YouTube channel and leave a comment from this episode and

1200
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: say how much you loved it, because surely you're loving it.

1201
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: You're a golf fan, you have to be loving this

1202
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: and the winners will be notified and promoted on our

1203
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: Instagram and our Twitter feeds. So get involved. We're trying

1204
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: to have some fun. We also have to pay the

1205
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: bills here at the fire Pit Collective. So back to

1206
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: ned a fourth. I mean, so Randle, as we're as

1207
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: we're sitting here having this this very pleasant chat, and

1208
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: you're you're clearly thoughtful and soft spoken and and um discreet,

1209
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: and you don't want to don't want hurt anyone's feelings

1210
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: when you're talking about these instructors. Um, I'm sure that

1211
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: some of the listeners are thinking, I thought I thought

1212
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: Brandle was this fire breathing dragon who's the most polarizing

1213
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:05,439
Speaker 1: guy in the golf media. And I'm wondering, Um, how

1214
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: you know this seems I think for getting a glimpse

1215
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: of who you really are right now. But how as

1216
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: as your persona has gotten so big in your place

1217
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: in the game, and uh, how have you dealt with

1218
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: the blowback and the criticism and all that. Because it's

1219
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: something that that I deal with my professional life, Michael

1220
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: a little bit, but you're more on the on the

1221
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: front lines. It feels like, is it is it challenging

1222
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: for you? Is it something you enjoy, does it does

1223
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: inspire you to work harder? Like? How do you deal

1224
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: with all of them? Well, I tell you, in general,

1225
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: I'm a non confrontational person, which I think people would

1226
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: find bizarre, but I am. I I don't. I don't

1227
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: enjoy I enjoy getting along, I enjoy people. I love people.

1228
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time, um with my friends,

1229
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: hanging out. My caddie used to always say that he

1230
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: could find me on the range because it would be

1231
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: where the largest group of people was. Because I enjoy

1232
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: a good laugh and I enjoy hanging out with people. Um.

1233
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: The nature of my job requires me to have an

1234
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: opinion on things. And and you know, I set in

1235
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: a spot where every two minutes someone turns to me

1236
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: and says, you know, why did that happen? And why

1237
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 1: did somebody win? Why did somebody lose? And I've always

1238
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: said that the world of analysis, I mean sports fans

1239
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: are very comfortable with what happened. You know, you know

1240
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: who won? This guy hit that many fairies like why

1241
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: did he win? Well, that guy made a twenty Jeff

1242
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: Jeff Overvie, he chipped in at seventeen and he he

1243
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: made this unbelievable part at eighteen. People are very comfortable

1244
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: with hearing that what makes people what pisces people off,

1245
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: as if you try to tell them why Jeff chipped

1246
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: in at seventeen, got up and down at eighteen, why

1247
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: Jim Fear came up short and com Montgomery came up

1248
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: short and Phil Nicholson mssed fairway and and those are

1249
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: hard things to divine out. They're not easy, and and

1250
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 1: they're always your opinion. But you know, as long as

1251
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: you're making your opinion, you should you should do your

1252
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: best to back it up in fact um. So I

1253
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: would just say that the hy tends to piss people off,

1254
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: but that's that's the world I live in. Why something happened,

1255
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: that's analysis to me. And it's not easy, you know.

1256
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: I I say all the time that if by the

1257
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: time I come on the air, everything that could possibly

1258
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: be said about the golf has been said. Uh, you know,

1259
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: we don't come until the golf is over, and so

1260
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: there's shows in the morning and the golf all day

1261
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: and then we come on. So you know, you sit

1262
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: there all day and you think, well, what hasn't been said?

1263
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: What's interesting to me? Uh? And how can I shed

1264
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: some light on it? And you know, you do a

1265
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: bit of digging um and and then you try to

1266
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: get it right. Uh. To your point about criticism, how

1267
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: do I handle it? I would say that criticism is important.

1268
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: I don't dismiss criticism. H. I think we can all

1269
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: learn from criticism. I think there's there's some truth, especially

1270
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: if it's well not to spend sleep, if it's coming

1271
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: from the right spot. Uh. You know, I don't look

1272
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: at Twitter for criticism. I look at colleagues and friends

1273
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: and uh. And I listened to tour players. Even if

1274
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: tour players if they get tested at me or they say,

1275
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, I was wrong or you know or you know,

1276
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: you phrase that incorrectly, I listened to it. I think, Okay,

1277
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: where was I coming from when I said that? You know?

1278
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: And if a tour player directly confronts me, which happens

1279
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: a few times a year, I'll say, you know, was

1280
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: I wrong? Uh? And generally what happens, I'd say nine

1281
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: percent of the time they're like, well, I heard you

1282
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: said this. I said, well, I didn't I said this,

1283
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: and I said all these things before it, um and such.

1284
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: I said, I'll get you the tape if you want

1285
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: to see the tape. Ah, but it happens. You know golf,

1286
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: You know, being a broadcaster is not unlike being a golfer.

1287
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: You make mistakes, you make bogies. You know, you get

1288
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: things wrong. You know I have said things where I've

1289
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: upset people and I thought, wow, I never saw that coming,

1290
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: you know. I remember we had Roco mediate on. We

1291
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: were doing this piece on Jimmy Ballard, who I quite

1292
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: enjoyed Jimmy Ballard, and I I could, I could give

1293
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: you chapter in verse on why I think Jimmy Ballard

1294
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: was a marvelous teacher in spite of his you know,

1295
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: sort of almost revolutionary ideas about you know, rocking and blocking.

1296
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: And I always called it rocking and blocking wrongly, but

1297
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: that's I would refer to it that. I used to

1298
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: have a friend by the name of Dillard Pruett, and

1299
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: he would always set up and he would sort of

1300
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: slide and squat and then slide and squat and you know,

1301
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: like to tell you how straight he hit it. We

1302
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: were playing once in More early in the morning, and

1303
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: More had gone down the fairway and left this one strip. Okay, now,

1304
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: how wide is that? That's that's that's eight ft wide. Maybe. Uh.

1305
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: The other guy on our group, Fred was where said Dillard,

1306
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: I'll bet you a hard bucks you can't hit that strip.

1307
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 1: And uh and and Dillard back there, he back there,

1308
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: he line it up, line it up, and you had

1309
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: the one of the Wood brothers and were right down

1310
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,479
Speaker 1: the middle and hit the damps drip. That's how straight

1311
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: Billard Prude hit it. And so I always thought of

1312
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: Dillard for its golf swing. Is you know, further evidence

1313
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: of Jimmy Ballard's theories. You know how something work. Would

1314
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: Jimmy Ballant hit it straight and you could point Curtis

1315
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: Strange work with Jimmy bout he was straight, and you

1316
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: could point big old guy Leonard Thompson didn't hit it far,

1317
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: but hit it damn straight. So anyway, we do this

1318
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: special on Jimmy Bower and in as we're going to break,

1319
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, you know he was a rock and blocker.

1320
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: He taught rocking and blocking, which really isn't what he taught.

1321
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: He taught rocking and releasing. But I said rocking and

1322
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: blocking whatever. And it was a throwaway line going to break,

1323
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: and you know rock O Mediate came in the next day,

1324
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: just veins popping, pissed that I had referred to in

1325
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: a pejorative sense his teacher as a rock and blocker,

1326
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: and I and I and I thought, man, I apologize.

1327
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: I did not mean to do that. I've got a

1328
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: lot of great I got a lot of respect for

1329
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: Jimmy Bower what he does. Um. And so yeah, I

1330
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: take criticism to heart. I don't dismiss it. I listened

1331
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: to it. I sit down every single day trying to

1332
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: get it right. I sat down every single day trying

1333
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: to do research that uh, that I get excited about

1334
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: so I can share it with our viewers. Um. And

1335
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not like I'm trying to be

1336
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: the tour players friends at all. I've I've I have

1337
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: tried to, and it's been hard for me because I

1338
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: really do enjoy people and I enjoy talking golf. But

1339
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: I've tried to stay distant from tour players, UM because

1340
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,479
Speaker 1: I I want to be able to say nice things

1341
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: about tour players that I might not particularly like, and

1342
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: I want to be able to say critical things of

1343
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: tour players that I really like. I just don't want

1344
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: to be biased too. And we all suffer from our

1345
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: own biases. But I try to be as objective as

1346
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: I can be, and one of the ways to do that,

1347
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: for me at least, is to do my own homework. Um,

1348
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: I listened to them, for sure. I go in and

1349
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: read all their transcripts. When they talk to you, Allen

1350
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: or Michael or Jeff, I read their transcripts, and I

1351
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: try to read between the lines and do my job.

1352
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: The criticism that comes my way is just part of

1353
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: the job. But again I learned from it and I

1354
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: don't dismiss it. Well, before we let Brandon go the

1355
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: last chance to pick his brain, Michael or Jeff, What what? What?

1356
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: What are you cogitating on in there? Well, it would

1357
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: be hard to get it down to one because Brandon

1358
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: can go in so many different directions. But I wonder

1359
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: Brandon to get back to Sue what you know Jeff

1360
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: was talking about early on, and Alan was asking about

1361
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: early on. It. I know this will be hard to do.

1362
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: If you could distill it down to one thing of

1363
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: what you would like to do at sixty what you

1364
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: know now about sixty, I'm sure you can't be done.

1365
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,600
Speaker 1: But to the Greek you can do it. Can you

1366
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: distill done one thing what you would like to do

1367
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 1: with your golf swing at this point that you hadn't

1368
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,679
Speaker 1: done previously. Make as big a turn as I possibly

1369
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: can in both directions. Um. You know, there's there's all

1370
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: kinds of hurdles to that, and you know, uh, and

1371
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I look at Tom Watson, um, and

1372
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: you know I was. I was lucky enough to qualify

1373
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: for the Senior Open another time at the World of them,

1374
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: I think the very next year, um so maybe two nineteen,

1375
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: a roll of them. And I've I've known Tom. Uh.

1376
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: We certainly weren't I wouldn't say friends, but we've always

1377
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: gotten along. We had mutual friends. And so I've known Tom,

1378
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 1: have been to dinner with him a few times. I've

1379
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: done some outies with Tom. And Tom was warming up

1380
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: beside me. We both share a love of horses and

1381
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: all that. So he was warming up beside me. We

1382
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: were the only two on the ranch, and and so

1383
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: we were just talking about you know, his I think

1384
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: we all know his warm up teap routine. He starts,

1385
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: he hits balls with a three earned or two earned,

1386
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: his first shot of the day, never a wedge. But

1387
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: I was watching him stretched and one of the things

1388
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: I've marveled about. Tom Is said, even at seventy years

1389
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: of age, his swing was just as long as it

1390
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: was when he was twenty nine. And so you know

1391
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: that big, beautiful movement where their hands are up here,

1392
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: a huge shoulder turn. You know that time and transition

1393
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: is gold. You know your swing gets shorter, you've got

1394
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: less time and transition, and you can't sequence things up

1395
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: very well. And and and I've argued this point a lot.

1396
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 1: You know, the guys that swing real long and have

1397
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: a real natural release, like Jeff Aligivi. As a matter

1398
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: of fact, Um, you know, Jeff, I would say, you

1399
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: hit the ball high, right. You hit the ball high,

1400
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: didn't you. I mean, you had a beautiful release. You're

1401
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: pretty high. I mean I just look at your golf

1402
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: swing and it looked like you hit it very high.

1403
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 1: And it seemed to me that people who hit it

1404
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: high were the best wedge players, the best scramblers, and

1405
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 1: the best putters. Uh. And I've argued for years the

1406
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 1: reason I think they're the best putters. And I'm thinking

1407
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: now of Ben Crenshaw comes to mind, or saving value

1408
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: Stairs comes to mind, or Tiger Woods comes to mind.

1409
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: Um or Jack Nicholas comes to mind, and all those

1410
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: players hit it high. And the reason I argue that

1411
01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 1: hitting it high has dividends beyond just Ta Green is

1412
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: because if you're hitting high, your releases is generally speaking,

1413
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:05,879
Speaker 1: it's not going to be a lot of forward shaffling.

1414
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: You're gonna be coming into the ball with a fairly

1415
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: neutral sort of attack angle. Of course, your hands are

1416
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: slightly ahead and releasing right, but you're but you're here.

1417
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: And I've always argued that the players that had a

1418
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: lot of forward shaff line and a lot of supernation

1419
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:21,799
Speaker 1: on that left wrist, it creeps into your you're putting.

1420
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: It just creeps into it. Uh you know. Johnny Miller

1421
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: is a marvelous example. Um. It just has a way

1422
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: of creeping into it. Whereas the guys who hit a

1423
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: high they have this natural release with their putter, uh

1424
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: you know. And and and so I would say make

1425
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 1: as full as swing as you can in both directions

1426
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: because it pays dividends. You have all that time in

1427
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: transition to allow you to sequence up. It'll it will

1428
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: allow you to, at least in my view, to carry

1429
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: on being a good putter and a good wedge player.

1430
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: Um you know what, what what stops people from playing

1431
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: this game is they hurt, they can't hit it very far,

1432
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 1: they begin to get the yeps because you know it

1433
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: all kinds of grimlins in their head. Uh So the

1434
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 1: long swing is it pays dividends in my mind. It's

1435
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: it's a it's a real pleasure. Michael and Alan, uh

1436
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: and and Jeff. You know, I it's funny. I've spent

1437
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: as much time probably reading Jeff and and listening to

1438
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: Jeff as I have watching you play golf. But um,

1439
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, I always look forward to what you have

1440
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: to say. And you've handled yourself a great class. And

1441
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 1: that's true of of of you guys as well, Michael

1442
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: and Allen. I really enjoy reading you all. Uh. I

1443
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 1: owe a huge debt to writers. H You know, it's

1444
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: one of the things that doesn't happen is often now,

1445
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 1: um is you know I used to just get up

1446
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 1: in the morning, get a coffee, and then get all

1447
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 1: the newspapers or periodicals and then read them. And as

1448
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,919
Speaker 1: you read them, you you've learned from writers, and it

1449
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 1: it spurs you onto ideas. Uh And and now the

1450
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: whole world's taken a logging and uh, you know, it's

1451
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 1: harder and harder to find in depth, wonderfully written columns. Uh.

1452
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 1: So you guys are hard to work at that, and

1453
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: I am appreciative of it. Well, when I was an

1454
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: Internet sports illustrated, um I had I was. I dreamed

1455
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: of being a fact checker. That was a step up

1456
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: from being an intern, and eventually I got there. And

1457
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: one of the stories out of fact check was your

1458
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 1: Diary from Masters, which Gary Van Sickle was the ghostwriter

1459
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: on and um as as I'm sure you remember, Brandon,

1460
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: you played great at the start of that tournament, right

1461
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: and um and kind of you're nibbling around and that

1462
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: was I mean that was probably an eight page feature

1463
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: in the magazine, and um, I feel like that and

1464
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: then you and you and Van Sickle collaborated on a

1465
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 1: few different pieces, and um like that was kind of

1466
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 1: your your end, your your entry into the golf media,

1467
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: if you will. I mean you're still in you're playing days,

1468
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: but I feel like those stories kind of launched things

1469
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah. Well, when I got on tour, uh,

1470
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 1: Gary reached out to me and asked me if I

1471
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: would write a once monthly column for Golf World and

1472
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: so in I started writing a column about you know,

1473
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, being a rookie on tour and what it

1474
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 1: was like to be a rookie and so I and

1475
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: then I kept writing for Golf World, and then I

1476
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:29,919
Speaker 1: would write pieces here and there from for Sports Illustrated.

1477
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 1: And I always wrote them. Um, I always have these around.

1478
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 1: I would always write them on the yellow leopads and

1479
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: uh and I would fact the story the Van Sickle

1480
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: and then you know he'd clean it up. Um. But yeah,

1481
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 1: the ninety nine Masters is what that was. But I did, Yeah,

1482
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 1: but I did, you know, I did write I think

1483
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: the column. I still get a lot of people talking about.

1484
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: I wrote about all the free crap you get as

1485
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: a as a touring professional. You know. I can remember

1486
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,679
Speaker 1: when I turned and I got paired with this fellow

1487
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: named David Sutherland. Do you you ever played with David

1488
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: Zello and Jeff Okay? So, yeah, Kevin brother. So he

1489
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 1: was he was he was a bit sloppy, you know. Uh,

1490
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: him would be out of his pants. He was un

1491
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 1: untied and messed up. So I got paired with them

1492
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: one year at the Hawaii the very first time of

1493
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 1: the year and he's walking, We're walking off the first

1494
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: scene and his shoes are a mess, hymns out of

1495
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 1: his pants. He's a mess. And I said, David, I said,

1496
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 1: you know, you can call foot joint and they will

1497
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: send you a dozen pair of foot joints. And uh,

1498
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: he goes get out of here. And I was like, no, no,

1499
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 1: you're you're on tour. They'll send you whatever. You want.

1500
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 1: To know, they won't. I'm like, yes, they will, they will.

1501
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: So I had written a column about, you know, like

1502
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: you would die for a free set of anything. When

1503
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: you were in amateur golfer they didn't give stuff away.

1504
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 1: Uh then they do now not then? You know, just

1505
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, bought clubs, you bought balls, you about shoes.

1506
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 1: But I remember, you know, getting on tour, the three

1507
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: dozen golf balls and five gloves and any shoes you wanted,

1508
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: and all the hats you wanted and all the shirts

1509
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: you wanted. It's like, good Lord, every day is Christmas

1510
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour. I get to play the best

1511
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: golf course in the world and they're paying me for this.

1512
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So anyway, I wrote a column

1513
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 1: about that, and I and somebody you know, all these

1514
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: people wrote in uh, because I said, you know, I

1515
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: have all these shoes and I don't wear them, and

1516
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: they were like, well, would you send me the shoes

1517
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: you're not wearing. So I literally sent out twenty pairs

1518
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 1: of shoes two people that were my size. So anyway, Uh,

1519
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: the original point I was making was gratitude writers, so

1520
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: uh and I do. I really do so. I I

1521
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: enjoy your alas. Uh. You alls worked very much. Um,

1522
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 1: so thank you for having me on. I really enjoyed it.

1523
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 1: I appreciate it op our past across at some point

1524
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: this year. Yes, thanks for having that was great. Thanks Jeff,

1525
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 1: Thanks Michael, Thanks Alan. Yeah. So now we have a tradition, Brandle,

1526
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: where you're gonna you're gonna e the podcast and we're

1527
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna critique you as if we were Brandle

1528
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 1: Shamblee sitting in the big chair and at Alive from

1529
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: so clicked a little red button there and then we're

1530
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk about your performance here.

1531
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: But alright, alright, cheers, cheers, guys, take care that that

1532
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: was a good fun. Wow, he's good, good guest. Yeah,

1533
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: well done, Michael. I think we know it wasn't me,

1534
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: but someone might may have broken it along the way.

1535
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, but that's why. You know, it's funny

1536
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 1: that I know I said on the podcast, But you know,

1537
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: he's obviously such a thoughtful guy. And um, you know,

1538
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 1: it's funny how he's become such a lightning rod. But

1539
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: I think it's because he's so good at his job.

1540
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: I mean, like he said, his job is to give

1541
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 1: opinions and he doesn't hold back, and that's that's a rarity.

1542
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 1: And as he said, it's it's bad. It's he's not

1543
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: just spouting off. I mean it's grounded in his research

1544
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 1: and and and people he's talked to and shot linked

1545
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 1: data and everything else. But when he when you believe something,

1546
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 1: he he's all in out. That's what makes him such

1547
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: a good analyst. Well that's the job, right, I mean, like,

1548
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: the job is to have an opinion, and he does

1549
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: it with research and um no, god, professional golfers, tour players,

1550
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:19,800
Speaker 1: my peers don't generally take criticism very well. So um um,

1551
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean he shouldn't do it, you know. Um,

1552
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: it's interesting who doesn't tune in. I mean, I've never

1553
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: watched life from two be fair except for it the Majors,

1554
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 1: and then I watched the Majors and I think him

1555
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: and um no below, I've had a fantastic time going

1556
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 1: back and forward and to hear two sensible, intelligent people

1557
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: world research argue the same point from other from each

1558
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: side of the argument is fantastic viewing. You know, it's entertaining,

1559
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 1: you know. Now McGinley is just as good, you know.

1560
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's been a great show. It's really

1561
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 1: added to the Master's week and he was open week

1562
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 1: and I mean before the coverage rent away and then

1563
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: we just had to kind of talk about it with

1564
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: our friends. But now we actually get more golf, you know. So, um,

1565
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 1: he's a great addition to the golf land, this guy.

1566
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,640
Speaker 1: But it's not that because he cares so much. You know,

1567
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,719
Speaker 1: he's a lawfa But I feel like, you know, for

1568
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 1: for you, Jeff, as as Brandal said, there's a lot

1569
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:11,680
Speaker 1: of people would love to hire you as as an

1570
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 1: analyst at some point, but I'm not sure you would

1571
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 1: let it rip in the same way. You're You're you're

1572
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: so discreet and you seem to care so much that, um,

1573
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:21,720
Speaker 1: you know, it is the job. But it's not It's

1574
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: not a job for everybody, right, Like, it takes a

1575
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 1: certain personality type as well. Well, I mean, I'm not gleateful,

1576
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: in my opinion, giving like some golf routerers and stuff,

1577
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 1: right he he's not gleateful lot And you feel like sometimes,

1578
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Johnny was, Johnny loved it, and he Johnny

1579
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 1: loves sort of got out of the fence, and I

1580
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: thought Johnny was great entertainment. Um. Randall same, a little

1581
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: more hesitant, but he still guys because he believes what

1582
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: he's saying. You know, I think it's interesting. I don't know,

1583
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: I would probably sit on the fence more than I

1584
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,639
Speaker 1: should for that role, you know, I kind of well,

1585
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 1: I mean I think you would. You would do, Jeff.

1586
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 1: I imagine you would do just as Randall did. You'd

1587
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 1: find your own way at it. I mean, it was

1588
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 1: amazing why I had never thought of it this way.

1589
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: But you know, al when you guess in the question

1590
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 1: about well he was talking about he's going on the

1591
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: air after everything's already happened, I never thought of his

1592
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: job that way before. Um, and of course, but he

1593
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: says something very original all the time. And if Jeff

1594
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,400
Speaker 1: did it I think Jeff would talk about very much

1595
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: from his own perspective of what it's like to be

1596
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: a player at the highest possible levels of the game,

1597
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: which Randall didn't have at times he did, but not

1598
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: not to Jeff's degree. So, Jeff, you would bring the

1599
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 1: wrong thing to it, just like you know, Alan does

1600
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 1: this thing differently than I do my thing. But we

1601
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 1: do basically the same thing, but but but differently. So

1602
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, let me keep John to hit the ball

1603
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 1: and we'll just do this every now and then. Yeah,

1604
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:51,680
Speaker 1: although you know what I mean, I feel listen what

1605
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: Randalls saying. I feel that too. And by the time

1606
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: I sit down to right say a game story for

1607
01:20:55,920 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 1: the Masters, everyone's been tweeting about it exhaustively, and brand

1608
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 1: has been on TV talking about it like. That's the

1609
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 1: challenge for you and I, Michael, is what can we

1610
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:09,640
Speaker 1: give people to read at bedtime that they have they

1611
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: haven't already heard or seen Like it used to be,

1612
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, you'd have you take, you spend all night

1613
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 1: your stories do the next day it would come out

1614
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 1: in the magazine too or three days later, and you

1615
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 1: could some people would not have really tuned in, or

1616
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 1: they would have missed it or they hadn't seen the

1617
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 1: highlights or whatever, but now everyone knows everything instantly. I

1618
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: think our jobs, Um, I look at it the the exact

1619
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: same way the Brandle does, Like what can I give

1620
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: people they haven't already had because they've had a hell

1621
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 1: of a lot, even by eight pm on you know,

1622
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: Master Sunday or US Open Sunday. So I relate to

1623
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 1: what he's saying that that's that's the challenge that an

1624
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 1: ever crowded and faster media environment. It's making you better,

1625
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 1: I hope, well, I hope. So it definitely makes you

1626
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 1: think about things differently. You just can't write the obvious

1627
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 1: story because it's just it's two. It's it's two is done,

1628
01:21:56,120 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 1: that's picked over. Yeah, yep, I completely agree with that.

1629
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 1: You know, I said to my friend McDonald will sometimes

1630
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 1: stopped on Sunday night after after a major and I'll

1631
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:09,599
Speaker 1: say I would say that, you know, one thing I'm

1632
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 1: not gonna do. I'm not going to write the TV

1633
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: show is the TV show was the TV show And

1634
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: I got to give you something that you're not going

1635
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: to get from the TV show. But just what one

1636
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 1: quick note about Randol and that this whole what our

1637
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 1: fifteen or so that we had together. It's the golf

1638
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 1: swing and the golfer and that stationary ball. There must

1639
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 1: be an absolute magic to it, because there's so much

1640
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 1: craziness going on in the golf game in professional golf

1641
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: right now, and the three of us are all very,

1642
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,560
Speaker 1: very familiar with it, and there wasn't even a temptation

1643
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:45,599
Speaker 1: really to go down that road because we're so enjoying

1644
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 1: talking about the challenges of the game that haven't really changed.

1645
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: But I would say haven't changed at all for four years,

1646
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: which is of course part of the greatness of the

1647
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 1: old Worse, which we talked about earlier and we'll probably

1648
01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: always talk about. But I think it was neat for

1649
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 1: that hour twenty that we've been together that that drove

1650
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 1: the whole conversation. And that's because Brandle's starting point, like

1651
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 1: it is for for for the three of us, is

1652
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 1: love of golf. And you know, like I've heard from

1653
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,640
Speaker 1: well just very great that you know, people say, no,

1654
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, you should be so grateful Tiger you jous

1655
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 1: a Tiger. With all due respect to Tiger Woods, you know,

1656
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: I love golf. Who was writing golf before Tiger during

1657
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: Tiger and now after Tiger. Uh. But it's really the

1658
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 1: it's really the game that got us before the you know,

1659
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 1: the three of us in the four us of Brandle

1660
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: where there are very different backgrounds and interests and family

1661
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 1: histories and all the rest. It got us to this place.

1662
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 1: And that's incredibly neat. That's absolutely well. I think that's

1663
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: a that's a great ending point for this need of

1664
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: fourth Jeff, you have something, I say, no, no, no,

1665
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: that's okay. I think I think Black Marko hinted at um.

1666
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be great if there was fun and simple,

1667
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 1: sort of unifying theory behind golf and we could all

1668
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: just boke out there and just put it into place

1669
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 1: and hit it. But that's the point, right, It's like that.

1670
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 1: Did you watch that Stephen Hawking movie recently where his

1671
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: dream was this simple elegant equation that explained it all?

1672
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 1: You know, the theory is what we're all looking for,

1673
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: this simple elegant equation that explains this unified theory that

1674
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: explains everything. But we're never going to find it. That's

1675
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: the But that's why we play. I think at the core,

1676
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: the very very very cool thing is that we go

1677
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 1: and hit a golf ball and we make a move

1678
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,000
Speaker 1: that we think is going to make the ball go

1679
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 1: one way and it goes the other way. For the

1680
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: rest of your life trying to work out why. I

1681
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: think you would hit that, and that's why the whole

1682
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:34,680
Speaker 1: thing exists. I think you would hate that if there's

1683
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 1: one simple theory that made golf easy, because I think

1684
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: the quest is what inspires. You got a bet every day,

1685
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,559
Speaker 1: so I don't think you actually appreciate that if if

1686
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it got figured out and distilled,

1687
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 1: it's the it's the idea. It's the idea of trying

1688
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:52,639
Speaker 1: to look for it. That's the joy. Right, Maybe it's there,

1689
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 1: you know. If you didn't think it was there, you

1690
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't bother, you know. But maybe it's there. All right. Well,

1691
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: this has been another need of fourth Um. It's always

1692
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 1: always a pleasure to get together with two great minds

1693
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 1: of the game, plus Brandon this time. So Michael, thanks

1694
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 1: for making that happen. We will be back at it

1695
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 1: again with with more eclectic guests. UM, I'm going to

1696
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 1: sign off here for Michael Bamberger and Jeff Ogilvie. This

1697
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 1: is aland Schip Nuk. This is needed for, thank you

1698
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:26,160
Speaker 1: for listening, and uh we'll do it again soon. Mm

1699
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: hm oh my god, it's a dangerous group here