Speaker 1: Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Forward Thinking. Pay the everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking,
Speaker 1: the podcast that looks at the future and says, there's
Speaker 1: a new sound, the newest sound around, the strangest sound
Speaker 1: that you have ever heard. I'm Jovin Strickland and I'm
Speaker 1: Joe McCormick, and today we're gonna dive right into part
Speaker 1: two of our two part episode on the future of sound,
Speaker 1: in which we discuss many that's certainly not all of
Speaker 1: the ways that scientists and engineers and techno geeks of
Speaker 1: all kinds are using sound to change the world of tomorrow. Right. So,
Speaker 1: previously on Forward Thinking, we talked about how sound works
Speaker 1: and talked a lot about ultrasonic applications in medicine. So
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard that episode, I highly recommend you
Speaker 1: check that one out because we kind of lay the
Speaker 1: foundation for what we're gonna be talking about today. Right,
Speaker 1: So what are we going to be talking about, Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna pick up. I had said in the end
Speaker 1: of the last episode that our first story was going
Speaker 1: to be again about ultrasonic frequencies, but in a non
Speaker 1: medical application, and this is actually going to be about
Speaker 1: how UH Disney has partnered with Carnegie Mellon University to
Speaker 1: create UH controls physical controls for smartphones, and that you're
Speaker 1: they're using ultrasonic frequencies as the means for these controls
Speaker 1: to interact with the phone. Okay, so we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to explain that a little better. You're you're not saying
Speaker 1: that you sing let it go at your phone to
Speaker 1: unlock it. No, if you could sing let it go
Speaker 1: at ultrasonic frequencies, I would be real impressed. Yeah. I've
Speaker 1: got a friend whose little daughter I think can do that,
Speaker 1: and then she should go on American bats have talent
Speaker 1: and sing that out. That's fantastic. Well, now, in this case,
Speaker 1: the ultrasonic frequencies are being used in a similar way
Speaker 1: to what we've talked about before with the echolocation end
Speaker 1: of approach, where UH you measure you emit sound from
Speaker 1: one device like essentially a speaker transponder transmitter, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you end up picking it up through another one
Speaker 1: receiver of some sort and by measuring the time it
Speaker 1: took for the sound travel from one and get back
Speaker 1: to the other, as well as any changes in the
Speaker 1: frequency or wavelengths of that sound. You then can start
Speaker 1: to draw some conclusions. Well, in this case, Disney and
Speaker 1: Carnegie meil and have developed some hardware that could connect
Speaker 1: to a smartphone, and that hardware could allow you to
Speaker 1: control the smartphone in different ways. Usually the idea being
Speaker 1: that this is a proof of concept and that the
Speaker 1: apps will eventually allow you the different control schemes. So
Speaker 1: we're talking about physical controls like a case. Imagine that
Speaker 1: you have a case that's essentially got a tube that
Speaker 1: runs around the perimeter of your phone. Now, one of
Speaker 1: the that tube is hooked up to the speaker of
Speaker 1: your phone, and one and the other end goes to
Speaker 1: the receiver. And then there's an ultrasonic frequency that's being
Speaker 1: emitted by your phone. So you cannot hear it. It
Speaker 1: is above the range of human hearing. But this can
Speaker 1: be played just through a regular MP three. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean a phone can certainly play sounds that are
Speaker 1: well beyond the frequency of human hearing. For instance, every
Speaker 1: conversation I have with my wife, I can't hear half
Speaker 1: of what she says. Oh, so these frequencies, even though
Speaker 1: you can't hear them, your phone can admit them and
Speaker 1: detect them. Right, It's it's not limited by the same
Speaker 1: physical limitations we mirror mortals are subject to have human ears, right,
Speaker 1: so it has tiny bad ears. Creepy if your phone
Speaker 1: had human ears attached to it. Though, well, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see all the photoshop work that
Speaker 1: comes out of this anyway, So very Cronenberg. Okay, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: Please go ahead. All right. So, so you've got this
Speaker 1: case and it's got essentially this tubing that allows the
Speaker 1: sound to pass through. Now, if you were to have
Speaker 1: the the case sitting on a table and the phone,
Speaker 1: of course is in the case, it would be able
Speaker 1: to detect that because there's not any you know, there's
Speaker 1: no deformation of the case. You aren't holding it. If
Speaker 1: you are gripping it, it would deform the case just
Speaker 1: enough so that the receiver would detect that difference from
Speaker 1: the sound waves that are coming in. And in fact,
Speaker 1: the harder you grip it, the more it would change
Speaker 1: that the nature of those sound waves. So you could
Speaker 1: create a physical control based on this, So you could
Speaker 1: end up creating a game that relies on this control system.
Speaker 1: So imagine that you've got a maze and then by
Speaker 1: gripping your phone with a certain strength, it makes the
Speaker 1: character in the maze turn in one direction, and by
Speaker 1: releasing the pressure, it makes it turn in a different direction.
Speaker 1: That's a simple example of how this could be used.
Speaker 1: But they showed up tons of different ways of doing this,
Speaker 1: including methodologies that would have like a joystick or a
Speaker 1: valve control, or just a switch or toggle, things like
Speaker 1: pressure switches that would do things like allow you to
Speaker 1: change the volume on your phone or a lighting effect
Speaker 1: on your phone. Lots of different potential uses. Now, the
Speaker 1: control system is just a platform, right. They haven't designed
Speaker 1: the apps around this, but they could do things like
Speaker 1: an alarm clock where you reach over and you squeeze
Speaker 1: part of the case around it and that's what tells
Speaker 1: it to go to sleep or turn off or whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: So what we're seeing now is the development of the hardware.
Speaker 1: The software is going to follow. I expect we'll see
Speaker 1: a lot of it because Disney is known for that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But this kind of interesting that again,
Speaker 1: they're using ultrasonic signals for this control system. It's not
Speaker 1: you know, using capacitors or electrical circuitry or anything like
Speaker 1: that is simply sound. Yeah, well, I mean, the the
Speaker 1: tricky thing in introducing anything electromagnetic into a system like
Speaker 1: a phone is that it has the capacity to interfere
Speaker 1: with what the computer in the phone is doing. That's true. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's that's the truth with lots
Speaker 1: of different electrical components, is that, you know, electricity and
Speaker 1: magnetism have this relationship with each other, and obviously if
Speaker 1: your control system depends upon that, it could, depending upon
Speaker 1: the design, have the potential to impact other operations in
Speaker 1: a negative way or even just an unpredictable ways. This
Speaker 1: is using a control system based on sound that's not
Speaker 1: going to interfere with other operations of the phone. So
Speaker 1: pretty interesting and also very different use of ultrasonic technology
Speaker 1: from what we were talking about before. So what if
Speaker 1: we were to talk about using ultrasonic frequencies not to
Speaker 1: create a control a physical control system, but a virtual
Speaker 1: control system, like virtual controls? Yeah, like like like there's
Speaker 1: no physical controls in front of you, but you can
Speaker 1: yet control electronic compos and it's based upon gestures and
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with camera technology. There are
Speaker 1: no cameras involved. It's only using ultrasonic frequencies. I like
Speaker 1: this idea because I'm creeped out by cameras watching me
Speaker 1: and this this would not be cameras watching you. This
Speaker 1: would just be essentially cameras listening to you. The the
Speaker 1: equivalent of sonar. Well really, really, it would just be
Speaker 1: sonar tracking your movements because again it's ultrasonic frequencies reflecting
Speaker 1: off of surfaces. In this case you and the motions
Speaker 1: you make, and thus the motions you make can be
Speaker 1: converted into commands for a system. Lauren, this is your
Speaker 1: life in the future surveilled by a fish finder. So
Speaker 1: here's the other thing that they can do though, beyond
Speaker 1: being able to create a control system based upon your movements,
Speaker 1: it could even create haptic feedback. Now haptic feedback, this
Speaker 1: is a tactile feedback. Gamers have heard about this. Sure, sure,
Speaker 1: that's a haptic feedback. Is like if you're if you've
Speaker 1: got a controller in your hand and there's a little
Speaker 1: librating pack in it that either maybe in a horror game,
Speaker 1: when your character is injured, you'll you'll feel the heartbeat
Speaker 1: through the through the controller, or if you're if you're
Speaker 1: shot in the first person shooter, you might feel the
Speaker 1: impact of that bullet like a thud. Yeah, Or you
Speaker 1: set the controller down on your wooden coffee table and
Speaker 1: then it vibrates and scares the heck out of everybody
Speaker 1: in the house, mostly your dog. Yeah, I I I'm
Speaker 1: familiar with this, so yeah. The the idea being that
Speaker 1: every time you are able to engage another sense, when
Speaker 1: you want someone to experience some sort of virtual thing,
Speaker 1: whether it's a video game or a true virtual environment,
Speaker 1: any of those sort of things, you increase the level
Speaker 1: of immersion. It adds a dimension to the experience. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and anyone who who uh you know, specializes
Speaker 1: in virtual environments will tell you that one of the
Speaker 1: things you want is to create this depth of experience.
Speaker 1: And the more senses you can engage, the deeper the
Speaker 1: experience seems. Um. You know, It's it's one thing to
Speaker 1: see stuff, it's another thing to see and hear. If
Speaker 1: you can see here and feel, then it adds another
Speaker 1: layer of immersion. If you can see here and feel
Speaker 1: and smell with the y and then maybe you know,
Speaker 1: attach a couple of electrodes to your tongue so you
Speaker 1: can get the taste in there, and then you're really
Speaker 1: ready to go. But in your brain to take hold
Speaker 1: of your appropriate reception. So you can actually use ultrasonic
Speaker 1: frequencies to create haptic feedback. We've talked about how sound
Speaker 1: has a physical force. It can it can press against
Speaker 1: stuff you're talking about, you know, moving air molecules, and
Speaker 1: if you do that with precision, you can create haptic
Speaker 1: feedback so that you can quote unquote feel objects that
Speaker 1: are not really there, they're just created from sound. We
Speaker 1: we've run right back into the creepy territory again. Okay,
Speaker 1: it could be creepy, but it could also be awesome.
Speaker 1: So there's a British company called Ultra Haptics that's one
Speaker 1: of the groups that looking at bringing this technology to
Speaker 1: store shelves, and it uses ultrasonic frequencies to create acoustic
Speaker 1: radiation force, which are those little pressure waves, and you
Speaker 1: can create really precise ones. So they said that they
Speaker 1: could create something akin to a point that you would
Speaker 1: feel with the tip of a finger. So they could
Speaker 1: create a pressure wave so precise that one fingertip would
Speaker 1: be enough to detect the full uh dimensions of that
Speaker 1: pressure wave, which is pretty incredible, right, that you could
Speaker 1: feel a physical point even though there's nothing there. Other
Speaker 1: than just the pressure waves created by sound, some kind
Speaker 1: of speakers hypothetically, Yeah, yeah, they have like a there's
Speaker 1: there's a speaker or an emitter. However you wanted to
Speaker 1: find it. It would be it's it usually looks like
Speaker 1: a little like black panel, like a square panel that
Speaker 1: sits flat on a on a surface. That's what's generating
Speaker 1: these ultrasonic frequencies. Now, you could also do things that
Speaker 1: would stimulate, say the palm of your hand, so that
Speaker 1: you can feel when something is there. This would be
Speaker 1: great for like a Star Wars game where you're using
Speaker 1: the force. I could totally imagine that being the feedback
Speaker 1: sort of stuff like I want to shoot lightning from
Speaker 1: my fingertips and you get a little pin pricky feeling.
Speaker 1: They're like, that's kind of cool, as long as it's
Speaker 1: not terribly painful. I mean, the dark side doesn't need
Speaker 1: to be, you know, truly dark at any rate. What
Speaker 1: is the feeling of force choking someone? It's so satisfying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: clearly we've got two dark siders in this room already. Um.
Speaker 1: Although oddly enough, the lightsaber I used in that one
Speaker 1: episode was blue, so I'm clearly I'm using borrowing someone
Speaker 1: else's lightsaber for that episode of forward thinking. You could
Speaker 1: uh so you could create a like a virtual console.
Speaker 1: Imagine that you've got um, you know, you've got a
Speaker 1: headset that's creating a virtual environment. You're you're looking around,
Speaker 1: and let's say you're on a spaceship and you've got
Speaker 1: a console in front of you, a virtual console that
Speaker 1: would control the spaceship's motions. You could use one of
Speaker 1: these emitters to generate pressure waves that when you put
Speaker 1: your actual hands out in front of you, so in
Speaker 1: the view of the virtual reality thing, you're your virtual
Speaker 1: hands are in front of you. When you encounter the console,
Speaker 1: you would actually feel the feedback from that ultra haptic system,
Speaker 1: so it feel as if you had real controls underneath
Speaker 1: your hands. Now they might not be as refined as
Speaker 1: an actual physical control system, but you could feel something there,
Speaker 1: and by moving your hands the detection of those ultrasonic frequencies,
Speaker 1: or pairing this with a camera, you could end up
Speaker 1: having that be translated into actual commands with the game. Cool. So,
Speaker 1: so you could you could have a you could feel
Speaker 1: a virtual panel under your fingers, and pressing a virtual
Speaker 1: button on the virtual panel would have an effect in
Speaker 1: the game. Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean I want to
Speaker 1: try this personally. I've never I've never encountered this technology myself,
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure exactly what it feels like or
Speaker 1: how hones of it is. But I mean Sonar is
Speaker 1: certainly very responsible, responsible responsive, I mean you responsible technology. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh boy. Well, in terms of game design, that is
Speaker 1: an interesting proposition because right now we typically have, you know,
Speaker 1: for most console based games and things, your your control
Speaker 1: hardware is very limited. H yeah. Yeah. You got the
Speaker 1: controller that you know you're going to be dealing with,
Speaker 1: and you have to program around that. Sure, and even
Speaker 1: if you put ninety eight million buttons on there, which
Speaker 1: I think is where we're headed in forty years, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, so what if every game designer could in
Speaker 1: the software design their own controller. I mean, that would
Speaker 1: be interesting and also be on the level of something
Speaker 1: like a connect where you could theoretically do that, but
Speaker 1: you're not going to have any feedback for the users.
Speaker 1: So the users is putting his or her hands out
Speaker 1: in front of him or her and nothing has happened
Speaker 1: or stops happening in the game, but you don't feel
Speaker 1: it yourself, like there's no feedback apart from the actions
Speaker 1: that are playing out in front of you. All Right,
Speaker 1: you have to you have to kind of coordinate with
Speaker 1: the screen and managed to not feel entirely ridiculous as
Speaker 1: you're interacting with these things that certainly are not there
Speaker 1: to you. I don't know if that's possible. Now, since
Speaker 1: we're already talking about eliciting some sort of emotional response,
Speaker 1: it's time to talk about how ultra haptics could really
Speaker 1: play with your emotions, at least according to the University
Speaker 1: of Sussex. Okay, so let's let's get this all the
Speaker 1: way first. I don't know how much uh to. I
Speaker 1: don't know how much I believe this next thing because
Speaker 1: it just seems so counterintuitive to me. But I am skeptical.
Speaker 1: But I am willing to uh to consider it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially considering that the people who are researching this are
Speaker 1: very much specialists in their field and I am not. However,
Speaker 1: University of Sussex used a system from ultra Haptics, that
Speaker 1: same British company we were just talking about, to test
Speaker 1: the ability to stimulate certain areas of a person's hand
Speaker 1: in order to elicit particular emotions, which seems which seems
Speaker 1: pretty you know, um crazy to me, like it's it's,
Speaker 1: it's it kind of reminds me of reflexology in a way.
Speaker 1: But according to the actual study, uh, they had detected
Speaker 1: things like a blast of hot air on the area
Speaker 1: of your hand around your thumb, your index finger, and
Speaker 1: part of your inner palm could be associated with feeling excited,
Speaker 1: whereas a stimulation of the hand on the outer part
Speaker 1: of your palm and around your little finger could be
Speaker 1: associated with feeling sad. So potentially you could use this
Speaker 1: kind of system to end up affecting the emotional response
Speaker 1: of someone operating with that particular system. So if you
Speaker 1: wanted to do something like tell a specific story, or
Speaker 1: you're playing, you know, a particular type of video game,
Speaker 1: and your goal is that you want the user to
Speaker 1: have a particular kind of emotional response, knowing that you
Speaker 1: can't truly control that, but you want to try and
Speaker 1: get the best potential to use everything you can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's only so many blue tones and C minor
Speaker 1: keys that you that you can really fit into a
Speaker 1: single game. So yeah, so if you could, if you
Speaker 1: could elicit sadness with this ultrasonic touch, then Honestly, every
Speaker 1: time I go on Xbox Live, I feel sadness. But
Speaker 1: it's mostly because I'm a bullet magnet. So that's I
Speaker 1: don't know. I get that's interesting, but I it kind
Speaker 1: of makes me sad to think about that. Being like
Speaker 1: like that you would supplement the quality of your storytelling
Speaker 1: with some kind of like a neurological trick, you know,
Speaker 1: when you think about maybe that's what maybe that's what
Speaker 1: colors in art do? I mean I was about to say,
Speaker 1: I would. I would argue that a lot of the
Speaker 1: things that we're using are already psychological tricks, things like
Speaker 1: the music, you know, using a minor key instead of
Speaker 1: a major key, Like these are tricks that storytellers have
Speaker 1: been using ever since they've incorporated those sort of elements
Speaker 1: into their stories. So here comes the dark Knight of
Speaker 1: the Soul. Please lean over and allow us to touch
Speaker 1: your tear ducks. Yeah I I do. I do actually
Speaker 1: get irritated whenever strings rise up in in a movie
Speaker 1: soundtrack in good days. So so maybe so maybe I
Speaker 1: would welcome this. Maybe this would be if it's not
Speaker 1: handled well, it definitely like you immediately pick up on it, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I see what you're trying to guess what, Mr Director,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna feel sad just because that's what you
Speaker 1: want me to do. Do a teenager about it. I
Speaker 1: get that way too. I get very belligerent when I
Speaker 1: when it's when it's like blatant. If it's worked in, well,
Speaker 1: then I appreciate it, you know, I appreciate the artistry.
Speaker 1: But if it's if it's like you know, no subtlety whatsoever,
Speaker 1: then I get belligerent, and any renuane emotions are so bored,
Speaker 1: you know. All right, fair enough, fair enough, Well, let's
Speaker 1: let's move away from emotions and ultrasound and ultrasonic frequencies.
Speaker 1: I've got a question. Almost everything we've talked about so
Speaker 1: far has been ultrasonic. Are there any technological uses we
Speaker 1: can talk about for low frequency sound? Yes. In fact,
Speaker 1: there are some great examples of using lower frequencies to
Speaker 1: have physical effects. And one of them is something that
Speaker 1: really went viral a couple of weeks ago. You may
Speaker 1: have seen there was a video of a couple of
Speaker 1: students using a sonic fire extinguisher. They were yeah, so
Speaker 1: so it looks like they're they're holding this this thing
Speaker 1: that looks like partly a almost like a vacuum cleaner.
Speaker 1: There's an enormous tube attached to it and they point
Speaker 1: it at a pan that's in flames, and the flames
Speaker 1: snuff out. And the device they're using generates low frequency
Speaker 1: sound waves, not ultra low. They are within the range
Speaker 1: of human hearing, around thirty to sixty hurts, so on
Speaker 1: the low end of human hearing. And what they knew
Speaker 1: that acoustic waves could affect flames. They being Seth Robertson
Speaker 1: and Viet trend Tow students at George Mason University. They
Speaker 1: experiment with lots of different frequencies with flames because they
Speaker 1: knew that that these pressure waves could affect the flames themselves.
Speaker 1: We can can they affect the flames or can they
Speaker 1: affect the air that is fueling? Well, they affect the
Speaker 1: air that's feeling the flames, but that in turn affects
Speaker 1: the flames, so you know, you can sure we can
Speaker 1: trace it back. Well. They found out that the ultrasonic
Speaker 1: frequencies that they first started with would make flames vibrate,
Speaker 1: but that's it, like the flames will get all all jiggy,
Speaker 1: but they wouldn't do anything else. So they're like, well,
Speaker 1: this isn't I mean, it's pretty, but it's not doing
Speaker 1: what we wanted to do, which is to have a
Speaker 1: safe chemical freeway of turning of extinguishing a fire rather
Speaker 1: than making the fire cooler exactly so right, so groovy. Now,
Speaker 1: they then experimented with these these lower frequencies which generated
Speaker 1: pressure waves that would push essentially oxygen away from fuel.
Speaker 1: And if you know, you're triangle for what require what's
Speaker 1: required for fire, It's got three things, right, It's got fuel, heat,
Speaker 1: and an oxidizer. Generally speaking, we say oxygen, but there
Speaker 1: are other oxidizers as well. Uh So it needs those
Speaker 1: three things in order for fire to happen. So the
Speaker 1: pressure waves push the oxygen from the fuel, thus the
Speaker 1: fire is extinguished. Uh So it's kind of cool. You
Speaker 1: watch the demonstration and they just point this thing at
Speaker 1: the fire. There's no visible you know, between the two.
Speaker 1: It's just the fire itself extinguishes. And very interesting, very
Speaker 1: potentially a huge um benefit to us. Like, imagine that
Speaker 1: your stovetop has one of these things installed above it.
Speaker 1: So same as like the the vent that you're going
Speaker 1: to vent any smoke out of, you could have a
Speaker 1: system where if there was a kitchen fire on your stove,
Speaker 1: you could flip a switch or maybe even it's automatically activated,
Speaker 1: and when it detects a fire, it emits this this
Speaker 1: range of low frequency sounds and that ends up separating
Speaker 1: the oxygen from the fuel and thus the fire goes out, Yeah,
Speaker 1: without you having to scramble for a fire extinguisher spray
Speaker 1: chemicals all over your food exactly. Yeah, so this could
Speaker 1: this could be a safe way of doing that and
Speaker 1: you don't have that those problems with the chemicals. It
Speaker 1: also could be very useful in say spacecraft, where if
Speaker 1: you're in a low gravity environment like a micro of
Speaker 1: the environment, and you also don't want blobs of chemicals
Speaker 1: floating all over the place, you probably don't want a
Speaker 1: chemical fire extinguisher. However, you also really don't want to
Speaker 1: fire your spacecraft. As as bad as blobs of chemicals are,
Speaker 1: blobs of fire, a fire in micro gravity is is
Speaker 1: both terrifying and awesome to view. It really looks amazing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever seen fire,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's spherical. Yeah, it doesn't elongate into
Speaker 1: the flame that we're used to it's a sphere. So yeah,
Speaker 1: just see a sphere of fire floating towards you. You'd
Speaker 1: want to put that out right quick. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like a little sun yeah yeah, plasma. Yeah, you want
Speaker 1: to get rid of that. Uh sonic. A sonic fire
Speaker 1: extinguisher would be potentially a very good thing to have. Now,
Speaker 1: One thing that critics have pointed out, and this is
Speaker 1: important to remember, is that ultimately this fire extinguisher, what
Speaker 1: it's doing is severing one of those those three links.
Speaker 1: You know, you're severing the oxygen from the heat and
Speaker 1: the fuel. But hypothetically, once that oxygen is moved out
Speaker 1: of the way, the rest of the air is still
Speaker 1: full of oxygen and it will move back in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you were to turn off the fire extinguisher so
Speaker 1: it was no longer pushing stuff out of the way,
Speaker 1: then once oxygen came back in, as long as the
Speaker 1: heat is above the ignition temperature of the fuel, it'll catch,
Speaker 1: it'll reignite. So what you would need to do is
Speaker 1: also end up lowering the temperature or removing the fuel,
Speaker 1: one of the two in order to make certain that
Speaker 1: it doesn't reignite. Once you turn off the fire extinguisher.
Speaker 1: As long as it's still going, it should keep pushing
Speaker 1: the oxygen away. Uh. And the way they did this
Speaker 1: was they had an ultra or not ultrasonic, They had
Speaker 1: a sonic emitter H and an amplifier, and then they
Speaker 1: used a tube to focus the sound waves in the
Speaker 1: direction that they wanted because obviously otherwise we just radiate
Speaker 1: outward equally um and that's what was allowed them to
Speaker 1: create these pressure waves that push the oxygen now the way. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some limitations that would need to be addressed, or
Speaker 1: at least you would need to be educated on them
Speaker 1: in order to be able to use this safely to
Speaker 1: put out fires. That's really cool. And I want to
Speaker 1: talk about another use of acoustic pressure that is really
Speaker 1: fascinating and I actually didn't know about until recently. And
Speaker 1: this thing is acoustic levitation. So it is crazy talk time.
Speaker 1: So is this when when music just floats through the air,
Speaker 1: and right, it's when when music elevates your soul and
Speaker 1: lifts you up into a higher plane of consciousness. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, I got it. That's it. That's the technology. No,
Speaker 1: it's not. No, this is this is when you can
Speaker 1: use sound to manipulate objects in the air. So in
Speaker 1: a in a strong gravity environment like Earth's surface, this
Speaker 1: means you can actually use sound waves to levitate small
Speaker 1: pieces of matter to make it hover in the air.
Speaker 1: Or in a microgravity environment, you could use these techniques
Speaker 1: to hold objects steady and keep them from floating around uncontrolled.
Speaker 1: So how on Earth does this work? How does it work? Joe? Well,
Speaker 1: have you ever seen the phenomenon of a standing wave
Speaker 1: in a fluid? I have not? You mentioned this before
Speaker 1: we started recording, And I mean maybe I have, but
Speaker 1: I have no memory of it. I have, yes, But yeah, well, listeners,
Speaker 1: if you get a chance, you should go look this
Speaker 1: up on YouTube, just Google like standing waves in water
Speaker 1: or standing waves. It looks fascinating. So normally you have
Speaker 1: waves that propagate from one place to another, like if
Speaker 1: you throw a stone into a pond, the waves ripple
Speaker 1: out from the place where the stone landed. If you
Speaker 1: have if you have sound in a room, that's a
Speaker 1: that's a compression wave, you know. But usually we'd we'd
Speaker 1: sort of represent it visually as a transverse wave of
Speaker 1: radiating out from the place the sound came from. A
Speaker 1: standing wave in a fluid seems to stand or bounce
Speaker 1: in place without traveling longitudinally, so instead of having crests
Speaker 1: and troughs that travel parallel to the motion of the wave. Again,
Speaker 1: technically sound waves don't have crests and troughs since they're
Speaker 1: they're not transverse waves. But this is just how we're
Speaker 1: thinking of it visualizing. A standing wave has valleys of
Speaker 1: minimal pressure called nodes, and then peaks of intense pressure
Speaker 1: and those are called anti nodes. And it's these regions
Speaker 1: of differential pressure and standing waves that acoustic levitation makes
Speaker 1: use of. So scientists discovered, i think in the nineties
Speaker 1: seventies that if you aligned the standing waves just right,
Speaker 1: you could catch particles in the nodes and counteract the
Speaker 1: force of gravity if you had the right kind of wave. Now,
Speaker 1: this is difficult to do because in the early methods
Speaker 1: of acoustic levitation, you had to have a speaker pointed
Speaker 1: at a reflective plate and it had to be just
Speaker 1: the right distance from the plate, you know, the resonant distance,
Speaker 1: and the speaker would generate a sound wave that was
Speaker 1: carefully calibrated for frequency and intensity in the distance so
Speaker 1: that when it reflected off the plate back towards the
Speaker 1: source of the sound, the transducer that made the sound,
Speaker 1: It would cause an interference pattern in the sound waves
Speaker 1: and that would create the standing wave. All right, So
Speaker 1: you've got the sounds coming from the speaker, the sounds
Speaker 1: being reflected back at the speaker, and those are the
Speaker 1: waves that are interfering and creating the standing wave you're
Speaker 1: talking about, right right, Okay, And so sometimes the transducers
Speaker 1: in these systems have had to be extremely powerful to
Speaker 1: create the level of sound intensity required to levitate objects
Speaker 1: against the force of gravity, probably depending on like how
Speaker 1: heavy those objects were. Um Inner House stuff Works article
Speaker 1: on acoustic levitation our prind Tracy Wilson mentions that these
Speaker 1: transducers sometimes produced sounds exceeding hundred and fifty decibels d
Speaker 1: fifty decibles. Explain how how noisy that is? Well? I
Speaker 1: found a decibel chart used for an aviation noise comparison
Speaker 1: document created by the f a A. And according to
Speaker 1: this document, a noisy city street is usually about eighty
Speaker 1: two hundred decibels. A power lawnmower or chainsaw is going
Speaker 1: to be a hundred or a hundred and ten decibels.
Speaker 1: A rock concert is maybe a hundred and fifteen to
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty decibles, and a jet engine at
Speaker 1: close proximity is a hundred and thirty two a hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty decibles. Okay, so as loud as standing next
Speaker 1: to a jet engine. Yeah, so this is going to
Speaker 1: be loud. According to the same f a A document,
Speaker 1: it warns that ear pain can occur at a hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty decibles. Ear drum rupture is common at a
Speaker 1: hundred and forty. So you wouldn't have wanted to have
Speaker 1: stood next to any of these early plate experiments. Well,
Speaker 1: acoustic levitation, the loud ones so REESA implementations seemed to
Speaker 1: be I it's it looked to me like they're focusing
Speaker 1: on ultrasound frequencies now which humans can't hear, thankfully, And
Speaker 1: that kind of makes you think you don't want your
Speaker 1: pets in the room while you're experimenting with acoustic levitation,
Speaker 1: especially your dogs or bat. But do you have pet bats?
Speaker 1: I don't have pet bats. They are really cute. Well.
Speaker 1: More recently they've introduced features to acoustic levitation such as movement,
Speaker 1: so not just the levitation of objects, but two D
Speaker 1: and eventually three D spatial manipulation of a levitating object.
Speaker 1: So just recently a group of researchers in Japan created
Speaker 1: a system for three D manipulation that was a set
Speaker 1: of four phased arrays of speakers, sort of like creating
Speaker 1: a box of sound. So here, instead of reflecting it
Speaker 1: off of a hard surface, they're they're producing sounds at
Speaker 1: all the sides. Yeah. And and by controlling with a
Speaker 1: computer very carefully each of these arrays in tandem, you can, uh,
Speaker 1: you can control that the pockets of canceled waves that
Speaker 1: can hold up an object. Yeah. So they the four
Speaker 1: walls sit in this square that's about to a side,
Speaker 1: and they produce ultrasound at about forty kill hurts, which
Speaker 1: is thankfully above where we can hear, about twice the
Speaker 1: the upper range of frequencies that humans are capable of hearing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so what they do is they create this mobile
Speaker 1: focal point of levitation that's electronically controlled and it can
Speaker 1: move around within the square of sound. Yeah. They've been
Speaker 1: using this with really bitty little objects and light things.
Speaker 1: It looks like they've been using like styrofoam pellets and
Speaker 1: stuff like that a lot, uh, and and things that
Speaker 1: are only about a millimeter in diameter, but it's so
Speaker 1: trippy and beautiful to watch. They can control entire like
Speaker 1: like swarms of these little pellets that kind of make
Speaker 1: them dance around. It's it's really really cool. And you
Speaker 1: might be thinking, a minute, couldn't we do this same
Speaker 1: thing with the electromagnets, you know, computer controlled electromagnets putting
Speaker 1: out thing. Well, in some cases you could, but acoustic
Speaker 1: levitation allows you to manipulate and levitate objects that are
Speaker 1: either non conductive so they don't respond to electromagnets, or
Speaker 1: maybe electromagnetically sensitive. I thought so like if you you know,
Speaker 1: you want to handle something that's a that's that could
Speaker 1: be damaged by a strong electromagnetic field. Uh. And this
Speaker 1: is also sort of related to a concept that we
Speaker 1: talked about in the last episode, which would be acoustic
Speaker 1: tweezers using the acoustic pressure waves to manipulate small objects
Speaker 1: with with sort of a pushing or pulling force, all right,
Speaker 1: to to sort in our example, roaming cancer cells from
Speaker 1: a blood sample. Yeah, but this has all kinds of
Speaker 1: potential applications in research and manufacturing, like the handling of
Speaker 1: extremely delicate or hazardous substances or components. They might be
Speaker 1: best done without touching the thing as if possible. They've
Speaker 1: also talked about using this in space you know where
Speaker 1: you where you want to control small things in zero
Speaker 1: gravity experiments. That makes sense. So, um, we're kind of
Speaker 1: wrapping up some of the future uses of sound. We
Speaker 1: have some also some future research of sound we'll talk about.
Speaker 1: But to really kind of bring this all together, I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about what's not not really that high
Speaker 1: tech use of sound, but is interesting. And it's funny
Speaker 1: because the stories I've read have presented this in such
Speaker 1: a way that sounds like you could use sound to
Speaker 1: pay for stuff. In other words, you could use sound
Speaker 1: as a means of transmitting data to pay for something,
Speaker 1: but at a range that's beyond human hearing, so that
Speaker 1: you know you're not just shouting out your credit card
Speaker 1: number to everyone who can hear you. I was about
Speaker 1: to say, I I use sound to pay for stuff
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, but this would be more of
Speaker 1: an automated way of doing it. That would be akin
Speaker 1: to something like NFC. However, if you actually look into it,
Speaker 1: it's a little less um dangerous than that. And I'll
Speaker 1: explain what I mean in a little bit. So we
Speaker 1: were specifically looking at this the story that talked about
Speaker 1: a means of transmitting information using high frequency you know,
Speaker 1: ultra high frequency sounds so that it's beyond the range
Speaker 1: of human hearing. Once again, and we're talking specifically about
Speaker 1: a system that has been implemented by vera phone using
Speaker 1: an app called way to Ride that it works with
Speaker 1: New York City taxi cabs. Uh. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of those, like thirteen thousand in the city that have
Speaker 1: been outfitted with this particular system. Okay, that's not that many. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, we've got four taxicabs at any rate. Um,
Speaker 1: here's how it works. So you've got a speaker in
Speaker 1: a taxicab that admits this ultrasonic frequency, so we can't
Speaker 1: hear it, but you turn on your your phone and
Speaker 1: you activate the way to Ride app, and your phone
Speaker 1: can completely detect this ultrasonic frequency no problem. And that
Speaker 1: frequency is essentially associated with that cab. It's a unique
Speaker 1: frequency that that cab alone is is allowed to use. Uh.
Speaker 1: So your app would then send this frequency information over
Speaker 1: cellular data networks, so same way it would do any
Speaker 1: other kind of smartphone activity. It would go to the
Speaker 1: servers for a way to ride. The servers would look
Speaker 1: up the database of all the different cabs and the
Speaker 1: different frequencies associated with each cab, find the one that
Speaker 1: specifically pertains to the frequency you sent, and then send
Speaker 1: back the payment information you had created in your profile
Speaker 1: for that app. So when you install the app, you
Speaker 1: would create a user profile that would include your preferred
Speaker 1: payment methods for using this taxi service, and you could
Speaker 1: end up having an auto pay option, so that's all
Speaker 1: you have to do. It's kind of like what you
Speaker 1: might experience if you have Uber and you're using a
Speaker 1: digital wallet, or you could have one where you choose
Speaker 1: which option you prefer at the time. So a lot
Speaker 1: of these, you know, these taxi cabs have monitors built
Speaker 1: into the back seats or the well about back of
Speaker 1: the front seats, i should say, and you could use
Speaker 1: that to choose your preferred method of payment at the
Speaker 1: moment when you need to pay for your cab, and
Speaker 1: do things like choose a tip and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. So that implementation, I think makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense because the only information being transmitted through sound
Speaker 1: is the taxi cabs. I d that's it right, because
Speaker 1: if it were payment information, then you've got some potential problems,
Speaker 1: like if someone else is recording those sounds, just because
Speaker 1: you can't hear them doesn't mean recording device couldn't pick
Speaker 1: it up. If the if that particular frequency was associated
Speaker 1: permanently with your I D and your payment information, that
Speaker 1: clearly is a bad thing. You're talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: identity theft or are just fraudulent charges, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So you would want to make sure that any information
Speaker 1: that's being sent over sound waves is going to be
Speaker 1: non vital to that transaction, right, just an identifier for
Speaker 1: the for the cab or for the store or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. Right. So I mean that particular implementation makes
Speaker 1: a lot more sense to me because a lot of
Speaker 1: the information I was looking at there saying, oh, it's
Speaker 1: like NFC not really. Near field communication uses radio waves,
Speaker 1: very very high frequency radio waves which have a very
Speaker 1: short range that they can transmit over before they are
Speaker 1: dispersed to the point where you can't really pick them
Speaker 1: up anymore. So NFC, all of that transaction information gets
Speaker 1: carried over the electromagnetic waves when you tap your phone
Speaker 1: to whatever receptor you're using, whether you're paying for something,
Speaker 1: or you're exchanging information, whatever it is, it's being done electromagnetically,
Speaker 1: whereas in this case it's all being treads bit over
Speaker 1: cellular data. So it's almost like like, really, this app
Speaker 1: in a way just removes the necessity for you to
Speaker 1: type in like the taxi cab number, because if if
Speaker 1: it's if it's all within a system, and each cab
Speaker 1: has a unique number associated with this is cab number,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, you could theoretically just have an app
Speaker 1: where you type in the cab number and as long
Speaker 1: as you didn't make a mistake, you're fine, right, and
Speaker 1: then you can pay that way sure. And and another
Speaker 1: way that this has kind of a head up over
Speaker 1: NFC devices is that uh NFC is a specific technology
Speaker 1: that you have to have a special device to transmit,
Speaker 1: and you have to have another special device to receive. Right.
Speaker 1: If your phone does not have an NFC chip in it,
Speaker 1: nothing is going to make that phone work with NFC, right.
Speaker 1: But but the technology behind this kind of thing is
Speaker 1: actually really simple to implement. You don't even have to
Speaker 1: have a smartphone as long as your mobile device can
Speaker 1: can play m P three's for example, like like an
Speaker 1: MP three bedded in a text message. You can totally
Speaker 1: have this on on anything. I see your point. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the same way that like Twitter is really
Speaker 1: cool because you don't have to have a smartphone for it.
Speaker 1: You can transmit messages to and from Twitter using text message.
Speaker 1: So this is really convenient for for that. For that reason,
Speaker 1: I often forget that other people don't have NFC enabled telephones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think minus minus. I don't use it, but
Speaker 1: I haven't just so you can say you've got it.
Speaker 1: That's the only reason I have anything. It's just so
Speaker 1: I can say I've got it. So we're going to
Speaker 1: conclude this by talking about some interesting new research into sounds.
Speaker 1: So in the beginning of our last episode, we talked
Speaker 1: about how sound works from a physical level. Well, this
Speaker 1: is looking more at a very very granular level of
Speaker 1: what's going on with sound. So I read this this
Speaker 1: interesting study granular I get what you did there, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: and sing study about the relationship between sound and heat
Speaker 1: and magnetic fields. So let's talk about sound and heat first,
Speaker 1: because that's pretty easy to understand. Sure, Well, for one thing,
Speaker 1: the temperature of a medium through which sound is traveling,
Speaker 1: can change the rate it which sound propagates through it. Sure,
Speaker 1: because I mean when you think about it, sound is
Speaker 1: when stuff vibrates, right, any sort of matter. When matter
Speaker 1: is vibrating, it's producing sound, assuming that there's you know,
Speaker 1: there has to be oxygen there or atmosphere anyway for
Speaker 1: us to be able to perceive that sound. But at
Speaker 1: any rate, when stuff vibrates, that creates sound. Sure, and
Speaker 1: vibrations are also what caused heat. Yeah, on an atomic level,
Speaker 1: that's what heat is. It's when atoms are vibrating, and
Speaker 1: the more the atoms are vibrating, the hotter the stuff.
Speaker 1: So if you want to add more energy to a system,
Speaker 1: let's say that let's talk about sound first. So let's
Speaker 1: say you're either striking something with more force to create
Speaker 1: a greater amplitude, or you're striking something reg pularly to
Speaker 1: increase the longevity at which it will produce a sound.
Speaker 1: That's one way to uh add energy into a sound system.
Speaker 1: Or you add more energy for you know, creating greater
Speaker 1: vibration of atoms, you're going to heat something up. You
Speaker 1: can see where there's some sort of relationship between heat
Speaker 1: and sound. Magnetic fields. However, that adds another element. How
Speaker 1: can manetic fields interact with heat and sound? Well, first
Speaker 1: you have to imagine that there is a fundamental particle
Speaker 1: of heat and sound called a phone on. And we're
Speaker 1: just using the word particles for simplicit No. I looked
Speaker 1: it up to make sure I did. It does sound crazy.
Speaker 1: Now when I say particle, it's not really a particle.
Speaker 1: It's really more of a unit of measurement. Is probably
Speaker 1: the easiest way of saying it. But it's a way
Speaker 1: of describing a basic unit of vibration, the same way
Speaker 1: that a photon is considered a basic unit of life,
Speaker 1: except that's a physical thing kind of yes, physical issue
Speaker 1: for for a given definition of physical yeah, uh, and
Speaker 1: so phonon is essentially a unit of vibrational energy that
Speaker 1: arises from oscillating atoms vibrating atoms. So uh. So it's
Speaker 1: not so much a true particle as a way of
Speaker 1: quantifying vibration, but we often refer to phonon's as the
Speaker 1: basic particle of sound or heat. All right, So it
Speaker 1: turns out that these actually can be affected by magnetic fields.
Speaker 1: How Well, if you use a really strong magnetic field
Speaker 1: on a non magnetic substance, you can actually control the
Speaker 1: flow of heat and potentially of sound through that substance.
Speaker 1: That's what the researchers found. So what the researchers did
Speaker 1: was they took a semiconductor and they they subjected that
Speaker 1: semiconductor to a powerful magnetic field and found that they
Speaker 1: were able to reduce heat flow through the semiconductor by
Speaker 1: twelve percent. So the magnetic force was able to impede
Speaker 1: those phonons enough to reduce heat flow by twelve The
Speaker 1: implication here is that if you were able to use
Speaker 1: a strong enough magnetic field, then you could quote unquote
Speaker 1: steer heat and sound, which could be incredibly useful. Uh,
Speaker 1: and you could affect non magnetic materials this way. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be something that's you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: ferress or that's magnetic. It just has to in fact,
Speaker 1: it it really just has to not be metal. The
Speaker 1: reason why it can't be metal is that metal ends
Speaker 1: up transmitting heat through electrons, a lot of heat through electrons,
Speaker 1: and it's so much so that if you were to
Speaker 1: use this method, any reduction and heat would be negligible.
Speaker 1: You would not really be able to see the difference right,
Speaker 1: so they'd be like instead of being it would be
Speaker 1: at And also the other thing I have to bring
Speaker 1: up is that the testing conditions they use are slightly
Speaker 1: outside the parameters of practical everyday use. Uh. That being said,
Speaker 1: they used a seven Tesla magnet or a collection of
Speaker 1: seven Tesla magnets, which are the type of things you
Speaker 1: would find and say an m r I machine in
Speaker 1: a hospital or other like actual dedicated electro magnets at
Speaker 1: a laboratory. It's not the sort of thing that you know,
Speaker 1: you kind of have a laying around your house. Sure,
Speaker 1: But so once I go in hijack an MRI machine,
Speaker 1: I can totally build one of these. Well, first you could,
Speaker 1: but then in order for it to actually have a
Speaker 1: noticeable effect the way it did in the study, you
Speaker 1: would first have two super super cool the material you
Speaker 1: were going to measure, because what they did with the
Speaker 1: semiconductor was they cooled it to just a little bit
Speaker 1: above absolute zero. The reason is the phone on reduction
Speaker 1: is so subtle that if if it's warm at all,
Speaker 1: you can't see the effect. So yes, magnetic fields can
Speaker 1: have an effect on heat and therefore sound as well,
Speaker 1: because it can affect phonons. However, right now, the way
Speaker 1: that they have discovered it here, it's not something where
Speaker 1: you're going to be able to say, hey, I want
Speaker 1: the words I say to be steered directly to this
Speaker 1: specific point. Using this methodology, you can use other tricks
Speaker 1: like interesting architecture to have sound transmit in really cool ways.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever been in
Speaker 1: one of those science museums where they have the little
Speaker 1: kind of semicircular alcoves where you can sit across the
Speaker 1: room from each other and whisper and hear each other
Speaker 1: even if there's tons of other people in the room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's cool. We can do that through actually directing
Speaker 1: sound waves through through surfaces, but this would allow us
Speaker 1: to do it through magnetic fields. So imagine that you
Speaker 1: would be able to set up a system where, using
Speaker 1: these massive magnetic fields, you could dampen sound around areas
Speaker 1: That would be really no easy. Otherwise that could be
Speaker 1: really cool. Like I think of if I happen to
Speaker 1: live near here in Atlanta, we have like Chastain Park.
Speaker 1: If I happen to live near Chastain Park and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to hear whatever musician is playing at Chastain
Speaker 1: Park that that time. Let's say that you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's a Neil Diamond tribute band that's
Speaker 1: just playing really awful covers of Neil Diamond. Now, since
Speaker 1: I love Neil Diamond, it would break my heart to
Speaker 1: hear that, So I would want some sort of dampening
Speaker 1: field effect. That being said, we aren't talking about using
Speaker 1: magnetic fields to steer heat and sound. So if you
Speaker 1: have anything that could be affected by a magnetic field,
Speaker 1: like all of your technology, it might be tough to implement.
Speaker 1: Like I also thought, oh, wouldn't this be great because
Speaker 1: I live across the street from train tracks, And then
Speaker 1: I thought, huh, there's a lot of metal train tracks
Speaker 1: and trains I've been a giant. Magnetic field would probably
Speaker 1: be the least effective means of it would probably actually
Speaker 1: make quite a lot of noise for a short period
Speaker 1: of time. That would that would messen things up. Also, uh,
Speaker 1: getting you know, getting train yards down to absolute zero
Speaker 1: or so is yeah, no that you know. I I
Speaker 1: can find other ways to dampen the sound, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: like noise canceling headphones. We talked about us in the
Speaker 1: first episode two. So that wraps up our discussion. Now.
Speaker 1: I want to stress, like, even the stuff we've covered
Speaker 1: in these two very epic episodes, uh, that's just scratching
Speaker 1: the surface of what sound could potentially do for us
Speaker 1: in the future, and applications of sound and interesting and
Speaker 1: innovative ways. There are tons of them, and I expect
Speaker 1: that I will be revisiting this several times in the
Speaker 1: future in the various videos for forward thinking, because they're
Speaker 1: so fascinating and their potential is so amazing. Uh, And
Speaker 1: also just because it's so cool the thing of something
Speaker 1: we often don't associate with a physical force actually having
Speaker 1: that force. To me, that's really cool. So I I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed researching these. It's a lot of work, but
Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun too. I'm curious what
Speaker 1: our listeners thought. I would love to hear from you guys,
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this episode. Also if you have any
Speaker 1: suggestions for future episodes, we would like to hear them,
Speaker 1: Except we won't actually hear you will read them from
Speaker 1: your emails and you could send us an audio file.
Speaker 1: You could do that, but we might be a little
Speaker 1: careful with any files that are sent to us. I
Speaker 1: do not typically execute files that are sent to me
Speaker 1: via email, but you could send them to us on
Speaker 1: yours on our social account. Yeah you could. You could
Speaker 1: send them that way, or you could actually, you know,
Speaker 1: upload a thing to YouTube that send us the link.
Speaker 1: That's fine, but yeah, you guys, you need to get
Speaker 1: in touch with us. You can write us. Our email
Speaker 1: address is fw thinking at how Stuff Works dot com,
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