WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Christian McBride 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.040 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.479 What's Up Everybody? This is unpaid bill. This week's QLs 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.239 classic is a basis Christian McBride. He recalls attending the 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.079 same high school as a mere playing on some incredible 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:18.960 jazz records and a Miles David story You did not 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.400 want to miss here. It is episode sixty eight from 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.320 January twenty fourth, twenty eighteen. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:38.040 Piece Supremo, Sun Supremo, roll Call, Suprema Sun Sun Subpremo 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:43.400 roll call, subdreama Sun Sun Supreme A roll call sub 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.640 Drama Sun Sun Suprema roll call. 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:59.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, subram Son Supremeo roll subram 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.480 So Supreme roll call. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.720 My name is Fante. Yeah, y'all know I'm filling it. 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.240 Yeah here with two thirds, Yeah, Philadelphia Experiment. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:17.920 Calm Supreme something something Supremo, role called Suprema, something Upbreme. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.640 A roll where tune Suprema. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.400 Yeah, we set the pace, Yeah, we got them drums, Yeah, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:29.959 we got them face so pray Son so Upbreme. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.920 Roll called Suprama this. 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.959 Sub frame roll the Bones and candy ms Yeah, turnips, 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.760 mother Steak Yeah, grits and gravy man cracking bread. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.200 Son roll. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:58.000 Supremo rolls em Yeah, no question, that's right, Yeah, yeah McBride. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:17.959 Supreme Subra this is you seriously got mem freestyling upping roll. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.480 That was the greatest sprovisation of a musician our generation. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:28.720 Supremea some Suppreme roll call Subra son Son. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.880 Supreme a roll call. Wait. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.799 The biggest surprise of that all was like you not 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.639 making our guest her third line? 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:45.440 Yeah, you know, christ isn't it? That's that's the standard, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:46.520 like brought my. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.040 Base, you know. Now you know. 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:55.160 Next time, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:58.120 Christian McBride Diaries. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:03.079 This is question of Supreme Uh with Team Suprema. Uh say, hello, guys, 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:14.040 how you're doing UH with us today? You know, I'll 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:18.360 say that we've had many hip hop debate on the show, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.519 but I will still maintain that jazz is probably the 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:28.639 most argued and the most debated uh genre of music. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:29.240 Uh. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.919 It's It's fans are very passionate, and it's you know, 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.600 all opinions are subjective, but I will as arguments are 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:43.080 my favorite. Yes, indeed to watch to watch. Yeah, because 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.520 you got to have your data, but I I will 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:51.560 I will say that, in my opinion, I believe that 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:57.160 our guest today is without a doubt, uh, probably the 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:04.000 greatest living musician of his generation and prop you know of. 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.360 Currently in jazz right now. I mean, I feel as 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:09.240 though he is the. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:15.560 Spiritual epicenter, one foot rooted and the tradition the other 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:21.080 foot rooted and experimenting and going outside out of the rim. 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.240 That's all I can say about one of my favorite 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.520 people ever, Christian Lee McBride. 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.679 Welcome to Question Love Supreme. Another homie. Yeah, how sweet 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.280 of you. I never knew you felt that way. Come on, bruh, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.440 I'm I study you, bro vice versa. I know who 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.840 I'm messing with. Are y'all the same age? Are y'all 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.920 the same generation? This is what I'm saying. This is 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:46.559 what I'm saying. 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:52.000 Even at the age of fifteen, Christian sounded like a 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:54.840 thirty five year old like the way. 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:56.520 That's why I'm excited, because I want to hear all 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.039 these stories about y'all being young and being the way. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.480 That he talks right now, Like I thought maybe he 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:08.440 was a teacher's assistant, like in school he wore like like, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.880 right now, he's wearn't sneakers. I don't think I maybe 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.240 a few times I've seen you wear sneak like he 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.240 always wore suits. Oh wow, and he was clean, you 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.720 know what I mean. So I my first day of 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.440 Performing Arts school where we went all right, the history 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:27.120 of us is that Christian and I went to Creative 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.800 and Performing Arts High School in Philadelphia at the same 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.440 time that Boisteroi men went there. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:39.600 Melue grew theory the same class, same class. He and 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.760 I are class of. Remember I'm proud of my age 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.120 eighty nine. Thank you. 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:50.799 I know it was I was looking at Christian. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:59.480 But yeah, but I'll say that for me, there's a 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.280 point where where I guess in your teens you got 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:06.520 to get serious about about your craft. And you know, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.720 I mean pretty much people know the backstory, Like I've 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.800 been playing with my parents and all stuff since it's 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.520 like three, four or five years old, you know. And 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.640 then my dad was like, well, you know, there's there's 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.200 going to be a time where it's going to stop 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.560 being cute, Like you know, you're five, six seven years 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.159 old behind the drum set, playing on like adult. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.800 Oh that's good, he's so cute. But there's a point 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:28.720 where you're actually gonna have to be good. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.640 And I will say that my first day of school 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.560 at Creative and Performing Arts is probably the biggest wake 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.640 up call of my life which has me here today. 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.520 Like I consider that first day of the day where 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.479 I was like, oh shit, I didn't know that there 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.160 are other kids that play way better than I do. 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.200 And you know, cause I didn't know that, I didn't 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.479 know any kids, and you know, people my age like playing, 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:59.120 like I played with a bunch of oldies cats that 0:06:59.200 --> 0:06:59.880 were like fifteen s. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.359 So meeting Chris, I. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.479 Mean on the first day of school, didn't Miles. Didn't 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.120 you guys do something with Miles Davis on the That. 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.080 Was the I think that was the following year, all 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.720 this something on Miles Davis. One of them local channel, 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.320 Bill Boggs. He used to have a talk show on 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.760 daytime television in Philly. Uh, they had Miles Davis as 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:28.480 a guest, and uh they had this overly, this this naive, 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.960 romantic notion that they would have Miles Davis give a 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:42.680 live workshop like a masterclass. And he's mad. Well, I 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:44.560 don't I don't know if he was stand office, but 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.520 he's he was brutally honest. You know, he's a man 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.360 that had no filter, not even for a child, because 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:57.920 you had an Alice Marcel's moment. I think Miles Davis 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.560 is thinking, well, like, if you bolted to put me 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:02.960 on television with a nine year old kid, you're gonna 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.520 have to hear the truth, you know. So they had 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.320 they had the house band, which was myself, Joey D. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.720 Francesco on on keyboard and uh Stacey Dozier on drums, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.880 our old buddy and uh they invited four trumpet players 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.560 from the Philly school system to come and play and 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.440 get Miles to critique him on live television and uh 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:27.640 uh not a good idea. 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.520 Please do what do you say about you? 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:32.959 Well he didn't. We weren't featured. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.680 Were they were the master Like that's what I'm saying, Chris, 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.520 Chris was already at master level. 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.200 I don't know about that. But see, we weren't playing. 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.840 We were just there to back up the trumpet players. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.520 They didn't. They didn't, We weren't. Who were some of 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.439 the casts that were. Fred Goodson was one of the 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.320 trump players. John Swanna was one of the trumpet players. 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.760 Uh Dad was one of the trumpet players and Jafar 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:02.520 Baron eleven. No, he was. Let me see, I would 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.199 have been sixteen, so Jafar might have been fifteen. And 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:14.199 I remember Miles pushed him in the chest. Wow, my 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:19.880 little Miles gave him a straight left, right and right 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:25.079 in the solar plexus. Man, I couldn't believe it. Wait 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.960 a minute, I know all these years I've never heard. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:29.839 I never told you Miles pushed him in the chest. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:31.640 Well, why did he punch him in the chest? 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.400 Because after it was over, you know, we all went 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.120 up to Miles to you know, say hello, and the 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.400 Miles you know, kind of cased everyone up, you know, 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.880 and he went he saw you far, he went boom, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:49.920 you've been a practice boy. So what year was this? 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:51.679 How old was Miles around that time? That would have 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:57.280 been eighty eight, so years old? Yeah, right, your Miles 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:02.160 was sixty four, maybe sixty two, sixty two. But that 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.040 was on the second day of eleventh grade, right something 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.160 like that. Wasn't that early. I don't know if it 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.640 was that early in the year, but it was sometime 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.880 early in the year. I had missed because my parents 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.240 were on the road. I missed. 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:17.920 Technically, I think the first two days of school. So 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.720 I came in on day three, Yeah, and I had 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.480 already gotten word of Oh my god, Bill found it already. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:35.040 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Wow. Okay, I wish 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:36.160 I could see what I just saw. 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.760 Yeah, but it was mad Like for me, the whole 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:48.600 experience is mad attimidating because every every high school has 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.720 this what what what set you claiming moment? I mean, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.439 be it an actual what set you claiming moment? Or 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.720 you gotta choose a click? Yeah, And because you're at 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.520 performing arts high school, I mean there's different. 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.160 You know, there's theater, dance, music. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.280 Creative writing, right, so then once you choose what you 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.880 gotta do. But even inside those clicks, there are other 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.720 clicks and clicks. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.360 Yeah. And the thing was on on the right. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.600 Side of things was Christa McBride and Joey de Francisco, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.319 whom I already knew of, like seeing clips on the 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.559 news local news, and you know, Jazz brought it to 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.760 these Christmas Vien Joey thirteen fourteen like playing like and 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.360 I don't mean like, oh they're q for thirteen year 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.199 old men. Yes, But then on the left side of it, 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.719 Kurt Rosenwinkle, Kurt Rosenwinkle who worked on Q Tips. He 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.280 was on the second Abstract Yeah Comala Abstract record. So 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.280 Kurt Rosenwinkle uh is a year older than us, and 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.880 so he has a whole nother click. So basically, I'm 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.760 trying to choose which fork in the road I'm not 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.800 going to go because these guys are talking traditional straight 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:05.680 ahead jazz. But then Rosenwinkle's trying to unteach me everything 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.960 that they're teaching me by like hit me to Frank Zappa, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.680 Mount Vshu Orchestra, like John mclaugh and and all that stuff. 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.160 And then on top of that, you know, I got 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.679 to survive up in the lunch room and Treiek's with 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.000 the cool kids, you know. 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.600 So it's just and his boys and men over there 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:23.120 on the side. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.160 Were they hung with them, well, they had their own. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.520 They strictly hung with the with the vocal. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:33.600 When a hear tells a story, you always say they 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.079 were already likes together, and pat they were together. 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.640 They were singing, trying to get girls and all that stuff. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.360 But I mean, just as far as what sets you claiming, 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:49.000 I definitely, you know, Rosenwinkle was again the jazz argument 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.040 of do we file tradition in the forties or. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:58.760 Do we move it ahead to the future. So now, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.320 But this is why he was such a saving grace 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.439 for me when he came to high school, because I 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.880 had nobody to talk funk with for my first two 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:08.559 years of high school. I was just kind of in 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.840 my own bubble when it came to funk. I mean, 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:13.920 I enjoyed living in my own bubble. I could do that. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.040 You know, I'm an only child, you know, I'm cool 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:20.000 with that. But then he's leaving out a very important 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.800 part of his first day of school. He was playing 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.760 the bass. He was just kind of new, lying around 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.000 on the upright base. So I knew he was coming. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.559 They said we got a new drummer coming in. I'm 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.800 here Thompson. I was like, oh, cool, solid, And so 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.840 I walked in the music room and I see somebody 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.560 on the base and I'm just kind of just kind 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.240 of laying back, just chilling, like all right, who was this? 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.600 And he's playing doing it to death? He's playing James 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.839 Brown on that, and I went, wait a minute. So 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.520 I kind of walked up to him. I was like, yeah, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.599 what you know about James Brown. He looked at me, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.120 he said, no, what you know about James Brown. It 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.000 was at that point, I man, man, you don't know 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.880 how much how happy I was that you came around. 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.959 And for the our last two years of high school, 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.240 it was great to have that that outlet I could 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.880 go and really talk funk with him. Mother. Lowe had 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.560 come out in the jungle groove on him, James Brown records, 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:26.080 and he studied Jabbo and Clyde Stubblefield, all those Al Jackson, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.960 all those great R and B and soul drummers the 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.240 same way I would study Ray Brown or Paul Chambers 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.560 or Charles Mingus or Ron Carter and uh to the 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.040 point where till this very day, should I reveal your 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.880 your nickname? Yeah. So I've called him Clyde ever since 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.480 the day I met him, because he's the closest to 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:51.320 Clyde Stubblefield. Nobody else has studied Clyde Stubblefield as thoroughly 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.880 as he as he has and can actually play like 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.320 Clyde s Doublefield. So I've never called him quest. I mean, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.240 you know, I do when what I have have to. 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:05.000 You know, I understand circumstances always been Booty and Clyde. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.120 Booty and Clyde. That's that's what we call each other, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.960 you know. All right, So Chris, there's. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:17.560 Your Your music vocabulary is so broad that I don't 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.320 know whether or not to go with your story and 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.960 your journey in jazz or just your opinions on music period, 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:26.720 so we can go wherever you. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:28.360 Well, we got to find out how he became a 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:29.960 child genius, though yes. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.240 He will never admit this. So well, I gotta know 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:35.440 how old were you when you first started playing? 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.320 Nine? Nine years old? Based on because just like you, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.880 you know, uh, my dad b Smith is also a 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.640 bass player. My great uncle Howard Cooper also a bass player, 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.840 and uh so it's a family tradition, you know. I 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.560 h I didn't really want to do anything else, maybe 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.040 pro football at one point, uh, but it was always 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.320 about the bass. What did you play ball for a 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.360 little bit? Street football? 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:03.160 You know? 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:13.240 I want you to be old, get on the j bus. 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.600 It was upright That's what I started on on electric base. Yeah, 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.600 and then I started playing the upright base when I 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:26.960 was eleven and I was going to Pepper Middle School 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.760 in Southwest Philly because I had to play in the orchestra. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:34.160 Wait where was Pepper Uh? Now out near the airport? Yeah, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.600 you know what I'm saying. That wasn't Yeah, it was 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.280 past Bartram it was. It was actually like Sharon Hill. 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.400 It was behind Bartram, like past penn Rose Park. It 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.240 was like that. The school the suburbs. Yeah, oh big time. 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.280 What would you take to get a chartered sefter bus 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:51.840 damn yeah. 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:54.680 Thing? 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.800 Yeah yeah, well we basically took what was the G 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:05.320 bus and but it was specific it went straight to Pepper. Wow. Yeah, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.520 I never heard of such a thing. Yeah, man, And 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:12.840 so the technical uh, the the exact address was eighty 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.439 fourth and Lions Avenue. The schools now closed, doesn't exist, 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.359 but it was this. It was the school built on 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.359 top of a swamp. There was always a prediction that 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:29.840 the school would literally sink at some point. But yeah, 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.200 it was out there near the airport, near Island Avenue 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.479 pass Linburgh Boulevard. It was. It was way out there. 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.840 But they had a great music program. So that's when 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.399 I started playing upright base really yep, and this is 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:47.800 a public school or yeah? Okay, okay, so then you 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.239 went there all eight years of your No, I went 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.959 to Hamilton for for elementary school from first to sixth, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.200 and then Pepper seventh and eighth, and then Kappa nine 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:57.760 through twelve. 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.800 So what when you went to Kappa, especially those two 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:09.399 years before, at what point are you, you know, dedicating 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.440 your life to Jack at least the serious the seriousness 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.280 level that I saw you ass Like. 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.360 What, Well, it's a couple of things that happened. When 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.960 I was in eighth grade still at Pepper, I met 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.119 Joey he was there too. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:24.960 No, but. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.119 My string teacher, you remember, Mss Keith I think she 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.119 was known as Miss Funk back then. Was yeah, exactly, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.320 so I know right. So she was teaching, she was 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.800 my base teacher at Pepper, and she said, I think 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.240 you're good enough to go to Settlement for their jazz program. 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.200 And so I started going to Settlement Music School. And 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.800 that's where I met Lovin Hines and Joey d. Francesco 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.320 and Antonio Parker and Donald Ward, all these all the cats. 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.960 And they were like, yo, you in eighth grade. You 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.120 ain't even supposed to be here till till at least 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.399 next year. But Joey was there, so he was in 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.480 eighth grade too. So uh, Once I met Joey. We 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.960 started practicing together. We started calling each other up on 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:07.920 the phone every day. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:08.440 You know. 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.880 He you think, look, Joey de Francesco was the real 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.520 child prodigy because he was gigging. He was making gigs 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.000 in Philly when he was like nine years old. Yes 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.159 he was. He was. His feet could barely touch the 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.520 organ pedals. But I mean he knew like half the 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:27.560 real book already. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:32.280 And the fact that all right, so there's a real 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.399 book and there's a fake book. Why do y'all use 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:36.880 the fake book more than the real book. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.520 It's cheaper, it's easier to get get your hands out, 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:45.119 So it's the real book would be the Wikipedia of 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.040 all jazz songs in book for him. 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.480 So when you're a jazz musician coming up a saxophone player, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.560 whether were there various books where they just court charts. 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.560 Or well they would have uh you know, B flat key, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.000 concert key and E flat key, so. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:04.200 Yeah, like sheet music. 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.120 Yeah yeah, but you you basically, if you're a jazz musician, 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.000 it would be who you to least know at least 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:14.560 eighty of this book? 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.000 Yeah, because the big is it? It was pretty thick. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.680 I would I would say about that big you know, 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.800 there's two hundred what kind of what songs are? They 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:30.720 like it? Standard Autumn, Leaves Misty, you know, take the Train, 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:32.880 all those all those standard jazz songs. I mean, because 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.360 the part of the biggest challenge of being a jazz 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.320 musician is learning repertoire. You know, because you get on 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:40.000 stage with some of those older guys, you know, turn 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.639 around and say body and soul. They don't want to 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.359 hear that. Oh I don't know that. Well what you 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.960 up here for? Get off the stage, you know. So 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.159 that's part of the that's the biggest challenge there is, 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.639 just learning the repertoire. So how were you when you 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.359 read music? When I started at Pepper, That's when I 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:57.560 started learning reading music. 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.040 Uh, anybody can put anything, because that's the thing is 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:06.960 that I in my experience musicians that are proficient at reading. 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:08.399 I know cats that. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.120 Live on the stage, they look at it, they can 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.320 play everything, but their feelings off. But then I know 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.280 cats that have awesome feel they can't read a lit 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.360 So I mean, at what point. 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.560 Well, it was always a myth that, especially speaking to 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:26.560 a lot of older jazz musicians, they always had this 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:28.640 thing and they were scared to learn how to read 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.200 because they say, well, if I learned how to read music, 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:32.800 I'm not going to be able to get the feeling 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.119 into it. But I mean, I think that myth was 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:40.240 shattered by so many great legendary musicians. I mean, first 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:41.879 of all, if you played in a big band, you 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.720 had to learn how to read, so Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:47.840 all these great musicians. I mean, obviously they knew how 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.240 to read music and write music as well. But once 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.600 I started playing in the orchestra at age eleven, at 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.439 Pepper started taking private lessons, and I had to learn 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:58.239 how to read music. And you know, of course at 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.680 that time, you read music every day, so I was 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.439 really good at it. You know. I think I consider 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.280 myself a moderately good reader now because I don't do 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.439 it every day. But if I don't want to put 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:14.359 myself on the spot. But there are varying degrees of 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:18.800 of of of you know, challenge challenge when it comes 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.400 to the music that people give you to read. I'm 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.320 fairly quick still, you know, so just in front of you, blam, 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:28.480 can you play this? And you're looking, you know, I 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.000 give it the once over and I write away. I 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.720 just try to look for the problem spots, you know, 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.760 and I'm just like, okay, what is that? Okay, I 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.639 think I got it, you know, and then nail it. Okay. 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:43.640 Yeah, that's kind of where I got off the train 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:50.040 because reading drum charts is boring. Well, no, it's just 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:52.639 hard for me. I mean, I'm certain that if I 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.840 seriously applied it, it wouldn't be anything. But I mean, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.399 you know, just reading drum charts and okay, so this 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.359 is the kick, and that represents the snare and this 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.560 represents the like, there's so many hours of practice you 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.320 have to put into that, which I don't think. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.760 And there's so many different kinds of drum charts, like 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.200 you know, sometimes they'll just give you a lead sheet 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:16.840 with just the melody on it and you're left to 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:18.480 your own devices on what to figure out what the 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.399 accents are exactly. You know, some will give you an 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.600 actual drum part where they have all of the slashes 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.399 and all the stuff on top and underneath, and like 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:31.080 you said, you know, I've seen like drum like that. 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:32.399 Shit makes no sense at all. 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:34.800 So when some of the older casts come like Tony 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.080 Bennett comes through, this guy like gave his rump charts 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:39.040 like look at each other. 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:43.800 He just gave his Just give us the NP three 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:51.280 brother straight up. Well, you know, speaking of you, you're 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:53.680 talking about Kurt Rosenwinkle and he was turning you onto 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:57.560 the mound Official New Orchestra. Well, I would say that 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:00.560 John McLoughlin and the mon Official New Orchestra where they 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:06.360 had uh, legendarily difficult music. None of it was in four, 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.520 you know, it was all in nine and eleven, shifting 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:13.880 back and forth five four, five eight, eleven, four eleven 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:17.320 eight and uh, you know, the I is crossed listening 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.000 to some of this music right now. Imagine reading it. 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:22.800 When I went on tour with with Chick Corea and 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:25.440 John McLoughlin, uh in a in an all star group 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:27.720 called the five Piece Bad p E A c E. 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:33.160 I was literally scared. I thought Chick Corea and John 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.240 McLoughlin together, boy, I know I'm gonna be doing some 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:38.840 heavy reading on this tour. And Vinnie the Great Vinnie 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.359 Calu to former Frank Zappa drummer of all people, played 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:46.320 on that tour, and uh, John mcgloughlin had this one tune. 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:51.359 What was the name of this piece? I can't remember, 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:55.119 but it was so difficult I'll never forget. We had 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:59.560 to jump on a conference call with Chick Vinnie Call 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:01.920 you to Kenny Garrett, who played saxophone on the tour, 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:04.560 and we're all sitting there trying to figure out, now, 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:07.000 how are you hearing this? Are you hearing it in 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.760 five or you hearing it in ten? Or I mean, 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:10.760 like what, what? 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:10.960 What? 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:15.200 Where? Where's the down beat? Where's the one The one 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:19.240 part of me actually was relieved to hear Chick career 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.680 of all people, asked the question. You know, he was like, man, 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.000 I'm having trouble finding out how to count this, and 0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:27.560 I'm like, Okay, I don't feel so bad. Oh man, 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:30.200 what song was it? And Vinnie call was like, uh, yeah, 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:34.040 we'll see. Think of the dotted quarter note. It's like 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:37.600 that's the actual quarter notes. It's like doom doom, doom, doom, doom, 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:42.480 doom doom. And instead of counting it, uh like like 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:44.240 with the eighth note groove and to think of it 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.880 as like a super slow five. What was the name 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:53.520 of that song, Oh, old Blues, New Bruise. That that's 0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:55.600 the that's the recul that's the name of the song. 0:25:55.760 --> 0:26:01.119 Oh yeah, old Blues, new Bruise. Damn. Even even my 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:07.520 computer's like, right, yeah, or new Blues, old Bruise, something 0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:11.040 with blues and bruise in it, and like so it's 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:13.879 a slow five and it's got all these accents in 0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:18.000 the middle of it, and I mean, I'm looking at this, going, bro, 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:22.840 I can't feel this, and I'm thinking, well, we got 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:23.600 a tour coming up. 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:26.159 I better learn how to feel it and quit. Oh 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.600 so it wasn't any question of it. Well maybe it's 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:29.840 too difficult for you guys, let me. 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:32.160 No, no, no, we had We had to buckle down 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:34.640 and figure it out. And I'll tell you the whole 0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:37.160 time we were on that tour. When we played that song, 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:42.600 you can literally see me. I'm gonna stay this going three, four, 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:48.520 five or two. I was counting out loud and unashamed. 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:51.200 I was like, I ain't getting lost in this tone. Wait, 0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:51.920 what year was this? 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:55.840 Uh? Eight eight and o nine? We did that tour 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.280 ten years ago? Yeah, I'm thinking like, oh, post high school? 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:02.520 Oh yeah, no, no, no, this was less than ten 0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:10.760 years ago. Really, yeah, So how many years did you 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:14.159 do at Juilliard? I only stayed for a year. That's 0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:18.639 because I started gigging pretty much right after school started. 0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:25.359 As you well know, I got to know when Marcellus 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.080 toward our last couple of years of high school, and 0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:33.080 knowing that all my jazz heroes lived in New York, 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:35.360 I said, I got to get to New York somehow, 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.720 some way. So I knew I was going to go 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:40.440 to college. And well, I knew I was going to 0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:43.840 go to New York. But as cool as my mom is, 0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:46.240 I knew it wasn't going to be simple as hey, mom, 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:47.600 I want to move to New York and become a 0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:51.920 professional jazz musician. So I went to I applied to 0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:55.280 the New School, Juilliard and the Manhattan School of Music, 0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.480 and one of those three. If I can get in 0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:01.640 any one of the schools, at least I'll be here 0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:04.760 in New York. And I started working with Bobby Watson's 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:09.480 Horizon Quintet probably my first month in town. But that 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:12.200 wasn't the first gig that actually took me on the road. 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:15.200 The first time I went on the road was like 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:19.240 on a steady basis was probably it was both Roy 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.760 Hargrove's band and Freddie Hubbards band. 0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:26.639 And this is after Juliard yeah, So what point did 0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:29.040 you because I think everyone has that thing like I 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:31.399 did like half a semester. Then it's like I got 0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:34.760 a record deal, I got a gig, So like for you, 0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:38.160 what was it? I mean, did your mom know? Like, okay, 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:38.800 I think she. 0:28:38.920 --> 0:28:44.200 Knew because once, I would say, once May rolled around 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:48.640 May of ninety, I was working a lot, so I 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:50.960 knew the writing was on the wall. I said, my 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:54.200 school work's going to suffer because I'm out playing every night. 0:28:55.320 --> 0:28:57.600 I'm either going to have to make a decision either 0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:03.800 really focus on studies or go gig. So I called 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:11.600 mom from from a payphone exactly on fifty six then, 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.000 right in front of Worldwide Plaza. I don't know why 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:17.000 I was there, but I called her from there. I said, Mom, 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:18.760 I don't think I want to go back to Juliard 0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:22.040 next year. And it was this long, like minute and 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:25.360 a half pause over the phone, and I was like, Mom, 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:28.760 you're there. She's like, yeah, I'm here, So what are 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:34.560 you going to do? I was like, I was like, 0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:36.800 but Mom, I'm gigging. You know, I'm working a lot, 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:38.760 and you know I'm making money. She said, where are 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:42.240 you going to live? I said, well, my friend, Mark Carrey, 0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:45.600 Mark Carrey, who was Yeah yeah, he was playing in 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:47.720 Betty Carter's band at that time, and he had a 0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:50.720 place up in Harlem and he had some extra space. 0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:52.920 He said, I can move in with him. Well, I 0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:54.920 don't know, Mark, carry, I got meet him, make sure 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:59.800 he's cool. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was is. 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.160 You were always an adult to me, so seeing you 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:11.520 having a yeah, man, well see man again, I'm gonna 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:13.600 go go back to high school. I've always felt that 0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:19.120 both your parents, you know, even my dad wasn't living 0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:23.240 with us, you know, when I was growing up. But 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:27.440 I'll never forget how much how tightly knit your family was, man, 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:31.720 And I always thought of your dad. Both your parents 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:34.000 and and my mom the same way. They did not 0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:37.560 let us get away with too much. Man. They weren't 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:39.720 hear none of that, none of that crazy mess, you know. 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:43.520 And my mom always loved you, man. She liked the 0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:46.080 fact that I think she also liked the fact that 0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:50.640 I now had a funk brother, you know, you know, 0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:54.600 she was like, God, finally somebody else you could listen 0:30:54.640 --> 0:31:01.920 to James Brown with boy. So what was you said? 0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:04.720 The first gig you did was with Hubbert? Well, I 0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:08.080 was like, that was like my first major major gig 0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:11.040 after I left Philly. What is that like? 0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:14.960 Like is it intimidating from you know, studying? I know 0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:18.080 that you guys like I didn't realize the point. You know, 0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:20.800 you guys are like reciting solos to each other, and 0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:24.760 I was like, ohh, I gotta now study. There's there's 0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:31.440 one point when you you enjoy were listening to I'll 0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:37.280 Never Forget you had Larry Jung's Unity, not Zultron. That 0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:41.000 was the first that is, but it's the it's the 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:43.080 the second song. 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:52.600 Yes, I think it was Monks Dreamy Monk's Dreams moon Train. 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.640 But you guys were literally reciting every you know. Now, 0:31:56.800 --> 0:32:00.520 I know that's common in jazz music, but I'm was like, wait, 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:01.600 why did they're studying? 0:32:01.600 --> 0:32:03.560 Man? Soul was like that's how far I got to 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:04.400 go into this thing, and. 0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:09.760 Yeah, but you did that man, well see I did 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:13.640 for survival because it's like if you can't get respect 0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:16.200 from I mean, it's like in jail, like you got 0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:19.120 to hit the biggest motherfucker, Like you see the biggest 0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:19.960 motherfucker that you. 0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:23.280 Hit him, like you had to speak their language. No, 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:26.239 I think it's survival on on that on and too, 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:27.120 because uh. 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:29.560 Well, y'all used to also if the cat was sad, 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:34.280 y'all would y'all would let y'all wouldn't even let him know. 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:37.520 It's like, oh, Man's cat's so sad man. I didn't 0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:39.320 want to be the sad cat that well, you know 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:41.200 what used to crack me up. Do you remember how 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:44.120 Joey and Kurt used to see Joey defriend to see 0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:46.320 I feel bad because Joey's not here to defend himself. 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:49.360 But well we were in high school. But Joey used 0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:53.640 to mess with Kurt like terribly, yes, because Kurt was 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:56.240 you know, he was he was super serious and he 0:32:56.440 --> 0:33:00.000 was not a traditional kind of guy. He was playing 0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:03.120 great stuff, but it wasn't like straight traditional jazz. So 0:33:03.240 --> 0:33:05.720 he'd be in the in the practice room, and you know, 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.200 he would be on the piano. I actually didn't even 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:10.160 know Kurk played guitar because he played a lot of 0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:13.240 piano in high school. Really yeah, so the first during 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:15.920 freshman and well, I knew he played guitar, but I 0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:18.720 thought that was a secondary instrument because I always just 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:20.600 see him on piano all the time. So he would 0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:23.160 be on the piano. He be playing all these all 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:26.280 these weird kind of you know, polychords and all this stuff, 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:30.040 and Joey would come behind and be like, man, what 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:34.120 is that ship? Man? Why don't you play some blues? 0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:37.000 And Kirk get out of here, man, leave me alone, 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.280 and Joe's that's some bullshit, get out of here, all right. 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:41.280 So this leads me to. 0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:47.360 I will say that with as far as Winton's concerned, Yeah, 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:48.880 you've heard all the arguments. 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:52.800 I'm certain that you've heard both sides. I've been. I've 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:54.280 been deep in the eye of that hurricane. 0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.360 I understand that now. I mean part of me just 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:02.240 from where I stand in hip hop. Were we standing 0:34:02.360 --> 0:34:04.680 hip hop? I mean, like no one wants to be 0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:07.280 seeing as the grumpy old traditionalists and the guy that's 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:09.640 only hanging onto the flag and that sort of thing. 0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:14.280 And you know, especially with hip hop, you got older 0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:18.239 cats that need to contextualize their coolness by co sign 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.080 and something young, right, some progressive like Quincy's the king 0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:21.279 of that. 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:24.719 Quincy always talked about he has a cough drop in 0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:30.000 his mouth. Yeah, you know, I love Bro. But it's like. 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:36.560 I've heard everything, and probably the best analogy I heard 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:38.239 that Winton. 0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:44.000 Has more as far as hip hop comparisons. 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:47.440 I've heard a jazz guy that I respect very much 0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:51.040 say that Winton is the Puffy of the jazz movement. 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:54.399 In other words, there was a point where, I guess 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.000 in seventy eight where you know, the N Base Collective 0:34:57.040 --> 0:34:59.240 and all those guys were trying to push forward. 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:03.439 I mean, if you ask a cat like Dave Murray, 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:06.680 David Murray, I mean, his thing is like, well, you know, 0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:09.080 he came in the suit and killed our movement. So 0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:12.240 but then, but I know that win is about tradition. 0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:16.000 And then when he did the. 0:35:17.680 --> 0:35:24.920 Documentary with on PBS, yeah, that really didn't help his argument. 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:28.320 This is true much. I mean I appreciated it because 0:35:28.320 --> 0:35:30.880 there's stuff I didn't know about King. People got turned 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:35.640 off by that, right, So it's like we're including jazz musicians, right, 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:39.080 especially jazz musicians. So where do you stand as far 0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:46.080 as what he represents. I think when Marcellus was was 0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:54.640 absolutely necessary for what it was that he did. I 0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:58.480 do think, well, you know that that old saying about 0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:02.320 the you know, killing a flow with a rifle, you know, 0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:06.719 I do think that's deep. I do think that in 0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:12.919 his desire to uphold the traditions of jazz. I think 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:18.920 he was quite divisive and harsh on a lot of 0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:23.520 musicians that came before and in some cases after him, 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:30.040 came after Yeah, who really didn't see things the same 0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:32.400 way he did. I do find an interest in that. 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:34.680 You know, you look at jazz in the seventies and 0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:36.400 you look at what was hot at that time. You know, 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:39.640 the whole loft scene that was going on in New York. Uh, 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:42.520 you know this this sort of I don't know what 0:36:42.600 --> 0:36:44.839 you would call it, this sort of post online guard 0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:46.959 kind of movement. You know, lest the Bowie was hot, 0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:52.439 Chico Freeman was hot, David Murray was hot, Oliver Lake, 0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:58.239 the AACM was doing great things. And then a lot 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:02.000 of the jazz ledgends you know, your art, Blakie's, your 0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:06.760 heart silvers, they weren't getting the same kind of attention 0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:09.400 or the same kind of of respect that they had 0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:12.279 been getting in the fifties and sixties. There was this 0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:16.880 sort of unspoken uh, this, well, these guys are the 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:19.120 old school, you know, I mean, they still play good, 0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:22.680 but they're not really contributing anything fresh to the cannon. 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:27.000 And then here comes this young raw kid from New 0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:29.040 Orleans who can play the hell out of the trumpet 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:31.279 like no one's ever heard before. And on top of 0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:35.040 everything else, he's brashing outspoken that he pretty much came 0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:36.920 up and said, wait, ho, hold hold of time. Up 0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:39.400 all the stuff that y'all think is great, this is 0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:43.359 all straight bullshit. And even if you didn't agree with him, 0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:48.040 you had to go, whoa, Yeah, this dude, it's got 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:50.239 some balls on him, you know. And he's backing it 0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:53.200 up with backing it up with his trumpet playing. Now, 0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:57.120 add that he's got a brother almost more outspoken than him, 0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:06.840 but he was he in terms of jazz tradition, he 0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:09.120 was very much on the same page. And I see 0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:14.000 it's interesting that my manager and I always talk about this. 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:18.080 You really, you do realize who actually changed the course 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:21.360 of jazz forever in the eighties was not a jazz musician. 0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:26.800 It was Sting. When the police broke up and Sting 0:38:27.800 --> 0:38:30.400 decided to start his dream of the Blue Turtles band. 0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:36.359 The fact that he took two of Winten Marcellus's band 0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:40.600 members that caused a riff in jazz that to this 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:45.560 day has never really been resolved. I think to think 0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:49.640 about something. In nineteen eighty five, Winton Marcellus had already 0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:52.640 won I think by that time he already won four Grammys. 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:57.440 He had already he was already already acknowledged as like 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:01.120 the seminal trumpet player of a of a generation, even 0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:05.719 though he was only like twenty four, a protege of 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:11.279 Albert Murray and Stanley Crouch, you know. So like so 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:13.360 he was known as an intellectual on top of a 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:19.440 great trumpet player, and he was so well celebrated for 0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:22.719 his you know, embracing of the tradition and sort of 0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:27.240 resetting jazz's values. And he's got one of the greatest 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:30.280 bands in jazz with his brother, the great Kenny Kirkland 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.640 Seann at Mafino based on Jeff Taine Watts on drums. 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:37.200 Sting comes around and says, hey, Branford, Kenny, y'all come 0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:40.440 with me. And so this almost seemed very much like 0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:43.920 a Cane and Abel because like people were like, you 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.040 left your brother to go play. 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:51.640 On a rock band, what you know, sound fun and right? 0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:54.440 And so people were kind of like, but Branford, I 0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:58.520 thought you how could you do that? 0:39:59.040 --> 0:39:59.200 You know? 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.080 Branford was like, look, I love straight ahead jazz, but 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:04.360 I never said I wouldn't play anything else, you know, 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:07.919 so imagine when he did Buck Shot La Funk that. Yeah. 0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:10.640 So I do know that there was a very very 0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:15.640 bad split between him for a long time. They've since 0:40:15.719 --> 0:40:19.800 made up. I know it's been all good, But musically speaking, 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:24.640 I really don't believe Winton ever really recovered from that. Really, 0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:28.520 I don't think so. I think musically because that band 0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:33.520 was so killing musically, he wasn't going to find anybody 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.640 else to replace, somebody like Bradford or Kenny Kirkin. So 0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:40.040 you're saying, now here's the word thing I just recently 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:50.000 found in oral history on Live at Blues Alley. Yeah, and. 0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.719 To hear Wint and tear that album apart, I'm in 0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:56.200 an album that I studied. 0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:59.160 You know, that's a great album, So I thought, I 0:40:59.280 --> 0:41:03.640 think so, I thought, but to hear him and then 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:04.279 read further. 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:08.279 Because the thing is is that with with rock criticism 0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:12.360 and hip hop, as far as journalism is concerned, I 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:16.920 never delve deep into how jazz records were perceived or 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:20.640 you know, got a bunch of downbeat back issues to 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:23.400 see how they were, you know, unless it was like 0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:26.280 looking up on the corner or something, you know by Miles. 0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:32.200 But I never knew because in my head when Jay 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:36.400 Mood and sort of his eighty six to eighty eight period, 0:41:36.480 --> 0:41:37.000 I thought that. 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:41.719 Period immediately after Branford Kenny went was thinking. See, but 0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:44.120 I didn't see that as a down period. 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.240 But if you're trying to compare it, are you saying 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:50.520 that that eighty six eighty eight period of Winton would 0:41:50.520 --> 0:41:53.720 be the equivalent of post payback James Brown? 0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:56.640 Like, No, I wouldn't say that. I would say that 0:41:57.000 --> 0:41:59.400 just mentally speaking. 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:01.800 Because I thought he was trying to push even further 0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:04.839 experiment and then when he got to the nineties doing 0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:05.840 like the Little. 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:10.239 The New Orleans, Yeah, the whole eighty six you know 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:13.240 those albums he talked about j Mood live at Blues Alley. 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:16.600 I mean, those are virtually only the two albums he 0:42:16.719 --> 0:42:20.680 made before he turned and kind of went straight traditions 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:25.279 and went straight to his New Orleans thing. And you know, 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:30.360 he helped build Jazz and Lincoln Center. So I always wonder, 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:34.280 like how much of that was because of what happened 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:37.359 with Branford and Kenny, Like, had Branford Kenny not left 0:42:37.440 --> 0:42:40.799 his band to go with sting. I'm sure Winton's career 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:44.520 would have been a lot different different just for for context. 0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:48.320 So when jazz music is referred to straight ahead jazz, 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:50.279 what is that referring to? 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:51.719 Like, who are some of the artists most of the 0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:55.360 time they well, they're referring to a style of jazz 0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:59.279 that is kind of coming out of fifties hard bop, 0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:05.400 you know, l Heart, Silver, Cannonball, Atterley, danceable quote unquote jazz, 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:07.720 you know, like blues based kind of jazz. 0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:12.160 Saying not bop as in because I knew that at 0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:14.640 a point when they started speeding it up right, it 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:19.800 was to discourage the dancing, right, So yeah, fastbat was 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:23.600 more like, hey just watch us and stop dancing, okay, 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:25.560 So they were the DJ of the moment, you know, 0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:28.360 but they were still called that straight ahead you know. 0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:31.760 I think when things started changing, it's like when avant 0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:36.160 guarde movement started coming around, and it became less about 0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:42.239 it became less so much about overt or i should say, 0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:50.800 sort of recognizable traditional melodies or traditional four to four rhythms, 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:52.480 you know, like on that Coleman kind of blew it 0:43:52.560 --> 0:43:55.640 out of the water in the fifties and Cecil Tailor 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:59.719 came around, and Charles Mingus's music started getting a little 0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:03.640 more abstract, to the point where even some jazz fans 0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:06.400 were like, well I don't really quite know what this is, 0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:08.080 you know, Andrew Hill. 0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:10.319 And wait you're saying and now I'm like the shape 0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:13.200 of jazz to come was sort of like met with 0:44:14.719 --> 0:44:16.719 because now it's considered or at least beneath the under 0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:19.240 like those records are like considered. 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:23.080 Yeah. No, there were a lot of people who initially, yeah, 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:25.399 they felt it was like heroin music. They were like, well, 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:27.960 you know, I'm not sure I can get with this 0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:30.000 on that Coleman dude, you know. Oh yeah, a lot 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:33.000 of people felt that way. You know, I think, uh 0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:37.160 the masses did dig it, uh, but it was definitely 0:44:37.360 --> 0:44:39.560 a musical shift that it took a lot of people 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:42.239 took some time to adjust to it. 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:50.200 You came out as a young lion, like when I 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:54.520 knew like, oh this means things some article on Time 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:55.319 magazine where they. 0:44:55.239 --> 0:44:56.040 Were remember that. 0:44:57.640 --> 0:45:01.080 That was like whoa Jesus Christ, Chris this in Time magazine, 0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:03.680 you know what I mean? So it was like there 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:07.360 there was was were young lions only referred. 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:11.960 To as the class of eighty five. Yeah, we were 0:45:12.000 --> 0:45:15.520 the Winton spin offs. So young Lions were referred to 0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:21.560 as post Winton jazz. Absolutely, yeah, yeah we were you know, 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:26.120 we were considered the uh you know we we were 0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:28.560 the Jefferson's two Winton's all in the family. 0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:35.759 Okay, okay, all right, So then how do you feel 0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:37.960 about the post generation. 0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:43.719 After us, or like the post generation post Winton, or 0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:45.360 like our generation or. 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:50.000 From from after Europe period. There's probably two generations that 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:55.000 have passed right now. I know me personally with musicians again, 0:45:55.400 --> 0:46:01.160 like the the the universal positioning, the universal quest love 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:05.840 positioning of you know, whatever I represent, it's supposed to 0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:09.000 be all knowing, all accepting, and you know, kind of 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:13.080 diplomatic about the ship. So I haven't like exactly been 0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:17.239 like there's some bullshit a lot of right, right, But 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:19.560 there are a few musicians that are mad at me 0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:23.880 about my outspokenness of gospel chops. 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:32.600 So in R and B play everything. But how is 0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:33.600 that in your world? 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:37.880 Because there's some cats that I like, I know not 0:46:37.960 --> 0:46:40.839 the fall for the okie doke, and the okie doke 0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:43.880 is like if someone does more fancy ship than they 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:48.040 do straight ahead ship, then that might be a problem. 0:46:48.239 --> 0:46:56.000 So I think oftentimes, you know, obviously, technique is it's 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:58.080 a great thing to have. I think it's something that 0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:00.600 one has to strive for it if you want to 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:04.080 be the best at what you do. Obviously, it's about taste. 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:07.640 It's about when, it's about when you decide to pull 0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:12.320 your your flash card, you know what I mean. I 0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:16.640 think oftentimes, because not a lot of musicians have a 0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:19.440 lot of great technique, when you find a few that do, 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:23.759 it can be intimidating. But on the flip side, if 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.759 that person with the great technique just jams it down 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:29.919 your throat all the time, it's gonna make it really 0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:32.600 bad for the ones that actually have good technique, who 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:37.239 have taste, Like for me, Wayne Shorter. Wayne Shorter has 0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:42.960 just technically speaking on the saxophone. He has the fast 0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:46.280 He has some of the fastest guns since John Coltrane, 0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:50.839 probably the fastest since John Coltrane. But Wayne always picks 0:47:50.880 --> 0:47:53.920 the perfect spot to hit you with that He never 0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:56.480 that's never his numb. He doesn't come out here, it 0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:59.840 never comes out of the gate where you know, you know, 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:06.480 it's just you know, you're like, oh, what was that 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:08.400 you know what I mean. He makes you want to 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:10.160 hear it again, you know what I mean? And I 0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:12.560 think the whole thing with the gospel chops. I'm with 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:15.080 you all the way, bro, because I mean so many 0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:20.880 times I always tell young younger musicians, particularly drummers and 0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:25.319 bass players, Look, that stuff you're doing is great, all right, 0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:29.920 but do you want to have a million YouTube followers 0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:33.120 or do you actually want to work and talk about it? 0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:33.680 You know? 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:35.960 Do you want somebody to call you for a gig 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:38.760 or do you want somebody to just pass around YouTube 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:41.319 videos and tell tell you how fast your chops are? 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:44.719 I would think in a practical world, you will want 0:48:44.760 --> 0:48:46.959 to gig. And if you want to gig, you're gonna 0:48:47.000 --> 0:48:49.439 have to learn to put put them put that shit away, 0:48:50.239 --> 0:48:53.960 you know what I mean? And I love using you 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:55.120 as an example. 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:55.319 Man. 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:57.719 I was like, look, listen to quest Love. I mean, 0:48:57.760 --> 0:48:59.600 there's a reason why you are who you are. And 0:48:59.840 --> 0:49:01.440 now I gonna gash you up a little bit. Man. 0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:02.360 Uh. 0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:06.680 I can honestly say that after having played with so 0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:09.800 many of my drum heroes just jazz and funk, you know, 0:49:09.920 --> 0:49:13.520 having played with Bernard Purty, finally got a chance to 0:49:13.520 --> 0:49:19.919 play with Jabbo and Clyde, Mike Clark, Steve Gadd Yo, man, 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:22.960 you are easily like one of the top ten of 0:49:23.200 --> 0:49:27.359 all time in terms of holding that pocket. Come on, bro, 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:30.640 who who else plays that pocket like you? Man? Seriously, 0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:36.560 he's not good with though, he don't sorry, and I'm 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:42.360 a homeboy. Little John Roberts, Little John, he just he 0:49:42.480 --> 0:49:44.000 been holding the pocket down. I know how much. I 0:49:44.000 --> 0:49:48.439 don't know how many chops he's got too, could my my? Okay, 0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:50.360 So part part he was. 0:49:50.360 --> 0:49:54.160 In All City, bab, little John was younger than me, 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:58.040 so part of me felt like, okay, as an eleventh. 0:49:57.719 --> 0:50:02.600 Grader drummer, foret guys not yeah, yeah right. 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:07.200 It's funny because the first time I met that little John, yeah, 0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:10.760 back in ninety four, I was like, wait, what happened 0:50:10.800 --> 0:50:11.200 to your hair? 0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:14.680 Like I'm because both of them having to Atlanta, right, 0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:15.400 John Roberts. 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:18.600 But no, it's funny about John Roberts is because he 0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:23.040 was I think two years younger than me. So when 0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:26.279 I got to All City, I mean, he looked like 0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:30.719 his name was little John Roberts, Like he looked. 0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:31.160 Like a kid. 0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:37.320 He just so naturally I just thought like, oh, motherfucker's 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:40.160 playing the tambourine or something, and you know, I'm on 0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:42.160 the drum set and he was cool, like I'm on 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:45.239 his drum set, but I'm getting aything, tuning stuff up 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:48.760 the way I want it, you know. And then who's 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:51.200 the the all City Hi? 0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:55.719 Yeah, mister Whittaker. I was like, okay, uh, what's what's 0:50:55.760 --> 0:51:01.880 his name? Am Omar? He was like, yeah, you can 0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:07.400 play a tambourine on good News or he'll or he 0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:09.640 gave me throwaways on my Hill with the Lord Hides 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:13.560 or yeah, old Maynard ferguson songs whatever, And to. 0:51:13.800 --> 0:51:17.200 Watch this little did you have to get your ass up? 0:51:17.360 --> 0:51:17.400 Like? 0:51:17.680 --> 0:51:20.279 That was my martin pretty ricky what they call it. 0:51:21.280 --> 0:51:25.480 That was my moment. That's when like I was dead serious. 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:27.840 I now have to shed. 0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:32.200 Five hours, which is like usually the neighbors would start 0:51:32.239 --> 0:51:33.399 bitching around ten pm. 0:51:33.560 --> 0:51:37.520 Yes, right, so you know that leaves me limited space 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:38.960 from like four to ten pm to do. 0:51:39.120 --> 0:51:41.040 But even then I'm like, okay, practice on my pad 0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:43.520 and all right, don't wait that up, hit hit the bet. 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:45.800 You know, the mattress is something silent. 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:50.080 But it was like I gotta get I gotta get 0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:53.160 some technique and get like that pressure came on me 0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:57.480 at sixteen seventeen, but little John Roberts was like he 0:51:58.920 --> 0:52:01.840 when I saw him running, That's when I knew I 0:52:01.880 --> 0:52:03.839 had to get my ship together and get it right. 0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:08.080 But the weirdest thing about it is my approach was 0:52:08.280 --> 0:52:13.160 to actually do less yause I know every drummer, like, 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:15.880 there was a point where you know, here's the gospel 0:52:15.920 --> 0:52:19.960 group what commissioned? Yeah, oh yeah, so commission Like those 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:23.960 cats started get more technique into their playing and stuff, 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:28.000 and all, like all Tristate area musicians just started following suit. 0:52:29.160 --> 0:52:32.760 And you know, and you know, by that point, James 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:36.760 Brown like his his music was starting to come alive 0:52:36.840 --> 0:52:42.000 more in Hip Hop eighty seven eighty eight. So I mean, 0:52:42.080 --> 0:52:45.000 it's a lot for you to just what I what 0:52:45.080 --> 0:52:48.680 I would call use the force and just damn like, 0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:50.880 all these guys want to show how fancy they are, 0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:55.560 and I got to play less to get attention. 0:52:56.000 --> 0:53:00.359 And it's it was hard. You navigated that brilliantly though, 0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:01.200 like for the first. 0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:04.560 Four years to just do nothing while all these other 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:06.160 cats are just dancing around me getting all. 0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:07.360 The woo's and and stuff. 0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:10.840 And you know, even now like, no, it's the equivalent 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:14.600 of in hip hop, the dude that can freestyle and 0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:16.840 get all the oohs and ah's and whatever. 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.160 I can't make a record to save his It's like 0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:19.680 too short. 0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:25.839 It's like too short versus cannabis exactly right in the air. Yeah, man, yeah, 0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:29.960 so it's But I also feel my dad taught me 0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:33.680 a trick. Whenever he would audition a musician, He's like, 0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:38.520 make him play the ballot. Yeah, like the slowest, easiest 0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:42.000 song ever, and I will watch mini musician trip. 0:53:43.520 --> 0:53:45.520 Do you got to go to? Well? 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:48.800 I mean my dad's songs were ballots, so like I 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:52.000 would want to do like the fast, funky, you know, 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:53.560 stuff to see like how they adjust. 0:53:54.200 --> 0:53:55.560 And Dad was like, no, you're you're. 0:53:55.400 --> 0:53:58.000 Gonna find out the truth about a musician. Always make 0:53:58.080 --> 0:54:01.040 him play the ballot. You give him the simplest things ever, 0:54:01.320 --> 0:54:05.400 and they will always mess up because discipline. 0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:06.120 Is one to be hardest things. 0:54:06.360 --> 0:54:10.120 Absolutely, So okay, And I'm not lying about you being 0:54:10.719 --> 0:54:13.880 technically proficient as far as in my opinion, one of 0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:15.800 the greatest musicians. 0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:18.280 Working right now music. 0:54:19.280 --> 0:54:24.440 How do you, I mean, what's the conversation in your head? 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:27.160 Because a lot of times, I'll hear references like it's 0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:29.520 like you still have hip hop techniques to your soloing, 0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:33.840 right in terms of like I'll hear references like oh, okay, 0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:36.000 that was the theme that the Jeffersons. 0:54:35.640 --> 0:54:37.040 Right right, right right, or whatever. 0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:40.440 But it's like, what's in your head? Because for me, 0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:46.480 the pressure of soloing is one of the hardest things. 0:54:46.600 --> 0:54:50.000 It still gives me anxiety to this value. But like, 0:54:50.080 --> 0:54:52.080 do you get anxiety to solo or is it just. 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:56.719 Like it depends depends on the song, it depends on 0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:01.440 the whole whatever circumstances that happened at that time. I 0:55:01.560 --> 0:55:04.200 still have head trips about playing the electric bass and 0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:07.200 I shouldn't. And I'll tell you why I have hit 0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:10.960 well because even after all these years, I still get 0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:13.920 the I didn't know you played electric bass, you know. 0:55:14.560 --> 0:55:19.080 I'm like, damn, so uh wait, even after nine albums 0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:22.719 absolutely yeah yeah, yeah, yeah no, people still see me 0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:26.000 with an electric bass and they're like what really, I'm 0:55:26.040 --> 0:55:32.200 just like, oh yeah, totally and so like, and I 0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:35.919 see like because I don't play the electric bass every 0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:37.040 day like on GAT. 0:55:37.080 --> 0:55:39.000 I mean, I play enough electric bass where I think 0:55:39.040 --> 0:55:44.480 my technique is still respectable, But I know that you 0:55:44.600 --> 0:55:47.720 get like some cats out here, like our homie Derek Hodge, 0:55:48.280 --> 0:55:51.920 who really does it. Uh, you know, all these legends 0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:56.680 like Victor Wooton and Marcus Miller and cats who really, 0:55:56.920 --> 0:56:01.160 really really do it on a regular basis. And I 0:56:01.160 --> 0:56:03.120 don't know. Every now and then I put the electric 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:06.760 base on, I'm thinking somebody out there and the audience 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:12.040 is going, he's not as good as Marcus Miller, which 0:56:12.160 --> 0:56:17.560 is true, But I still get really uptight about playing 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:22.520 the electric bass now now houses for irony, except when 0:56:22.640 --> 0:56:23.760 me and you were playing together. 0:56:24.760 --> 0:56:28.520 Well, that's weird though, because of the gazillion times I've 0:56:28.560 --> 0:56:31.720 seen you. Most of the times it's like you're electric, 0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:35.359 like when your Family Fair project came out, right, I've 0:56:35.360 --> 0:56:38.360 seen you a lot, like I always felt that you 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:42.919 You've devoted half of your projects to That's what I've 0:56:42.920 --> 0:56:47.040 tried to do, tradition and right pushing forward, you know. 0:56:47.480 --> 0:56:50.960 You know, speaking of that that recording a family Affair, 0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:52.960 I think that was when there was a couple of 0:56:53.000 --> 0:56:56.680 things that happened between ninety eight and two thousand and one. 0:56:57.400 --> 0:57:00.920 That was when I started to and in retrospect, I 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:04.520 wonder if this was wrong of me to have, or 0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.800 if it was reactionary. But by ninety seven it was 0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:10.799 kind of like, oh, the young lion Christian McBride, Ray 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:14.680 Brown protege went Marcella's you know, little brother club. You know, 0:57:14.840 --> 0:57:16.520 it's just like you wanted to be your old man. 0:57:16.560 --> 0:57:19.840 I'm like, come on, you all, damn. I mean, obviously 0:57:20.000 --> 0:57:22.920 I loved Ray Brown, you know, Ray Brown. For me, 0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:25.520 it was like the Muhammad Ali of jazz bass of 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:31.720 all time went Marcella's great you know mentor big brother 0:57:31.800 --> 0:57:36.040 to have. But I knew my musical view was a 0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:39.160 lot wider than that. So I thought, wow, I'm getting 0:57:39.200 --> 0:57:41.640 painted into this corner. I want to do this other stuff, 0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:45.480 and I think they're going to start tripping once I 0:57:45.600 --> 0:57:49.000 decided to do that. So ninety eight I knew that 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:51.400 I see, I want to do something a little more, 0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:53.920 a little more electric, a little more on this side, 0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:57.080 you know. And so I hooked up with George duke Man. 0:57:57.920 --> 0:57:59.800 A lot of people in the jazz world they were like, 0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:03.760 I took it. Took it like this, Christian, we really 0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:06.920 love you, so we're just gonna let you have this one. 0:58:07.000 --> 0:58:11.160 We're not even going to acknowledge we're just gonna be like. 0:58:11.520 --> 0:58:14.360 Because when I saw the fonts, when I okay, so 0:58:14.520 --> 0:58:17.000 the day the album usually on the first week of 0:58:17.120 --> 0:58:19.800 your album's coming out, Yeah, I'm buying it. And when 0:58:19.840 --> 0:58:23.960 I see in it and saw the font at first, 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:25.840 I was like, wait, didn't do a funk record and 0:58:25.960 --> 0:58:32.800 not call me, I mean my feeling. So you knew 0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:35.240 from the font it was it was from the front, right. 0:58:35.480 --> 0:58:40.960 But then I was like, because I know, I figured 0:58:41.000 --> 0:58:43.919 that your entry into the music world was the same 0:58:44.120 --> 0:58:47.360 as my entry in high school, right, And I was like, okay, 0:58:47.440 --> 0:58:50.200 because I know that you got a side of you 0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:56.160 that wants to reference Bootsy and James Jamerson and Jacobin 0:58:56.200 --> 0:58:58.640 Stores and all these you know, Lewis Johnson, Like there's 0:58:58.640 --> 0:58:59.800 a whole other side. 0:58:59.600 --> 0:59:01.760 Of you that you have you have to express. 0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:03.760 I mean, you'll, you'll, you'll salt and pepper, some ship 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:07.520 and a cut or two with with with your record. 0:59:07.640 --> 0:59:10.760 But then when I saw that, I was like, Okay, 0:59:11.800 --> 0:59:16.200 he's this is going to be his his flag planting 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:20.760 right now. I never read the reviews of that record. 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:27.320 There were none. What was the general because again like. 0:59:27.480 --> 0:59:28.680 And what was the name of the record, what was 0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:33.960 the family which is weird because you you swung and 0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.800 I love that interpretation of it. He did a swing 0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:43.200 interpretation of of of Fair of a slyest song, so it's. 0:59:44.840 --> 0:59:48.880 Also wait, I forgot to tell you. Is that the 0:59:48.920 --> 0:59:51.160 one that opened Sesame? Dude? 0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:55.280 You ever talked to Ronald Bell about that? He loves 0:59:55.320 --> 0:59:59.560 you forever for that? Really yes, because he in his 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:04.840 head he envisioned all that stuff as serious jazz. For 1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:09.400 you to interpret open Sesame the way that you did, Oh, man, 1:00:09.640 --> 1:00:11.600 that made it. That made I always wanted to know 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:13.960 if you ever knew that you made his life with that. 1:00:14.040 --> 1:00:17.520 I'll tell you what. After the family Affair, I got 1:00:17.560 --> 1:00:21.840 a call from verdein white and uh, I'll never forget, 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:25.240 like like almost being frozen for a couple of days, 1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:27.320 you know, like, man, we just wanted to tell you 1:00:27.440 --> 1:00:29.440 we got your we got family, we got getting to 1:00:29.560 --> 1:00:32.320 it and family affair on the tour bus and we're 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:35.040 checking you out. Man, we love I'll write a song 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:35.760 for you. Yeah. 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:43.040 I was like, oh, Elizabeth, wait, I know, I know 1:00:43.120 --> 1:00:48.439 you have crazy stories. Uh, I know that if she's 1:00:48.640 --> 1:00:51.680 on your record, you have a crazy vested story. I 1:00:51.760 --> 1:00:53.360 was about to ask, I. 1:00:53.440 --> 1:00:54.560 Actually don't man. 1:00:56.560 --> 1:00:56.880 She was. 1:00:57.160 --> 1:01:00.880 She was pretty mellow. Man. I actually didn't know her. 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:04.600 George Duke knew her. I brought in these songs that 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:17.800 I wanted to record, and uh now Shaka was originally singing, okay, stands. 1:01:17.680 --> 1:01:20.200 Walked famously and then she'll send her best girls. 1:01:20.240 --> 1:01:22.480 Though that was. 1:01:22.440 --> 1:01:25.280 Supposed to do don't look any further real you mean 1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:28.120 with with Dennis Edward, Yes, no, kidding him up. 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:34.240 Was supposed to do the power with snap them up. 1:01:34.520 --> 1:01:40.560 She's famous, bless her. Penny Ford didn't pretty. 1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:42.320 She said, I'll send the best girls. 1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:45.680 Yes. I met Penny Ford through Shaka. She was singing 1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:50.000 background at that time. Yes, like so, George, So I 1:01:50.080 --> 1:01:53.040 brought in these songs, a couple of vocal tunes and uh, 1:01:53.440 --> 1:01:55.640 George said, well who you want? I said, uh, well 1:01:55.640 --> 1:01:57.720 I want to get Shaka. He was like, you want 1:01:57.760 --> 1:01:59.760 to make the call or you want me to make 1:01:59.800 --> 1:02:02.520 the all. I was like, well, you know I know Shaka, 1:02:02.600 --> 1:02:05.640 but your George du you know, so you make the call. 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:09.400 So uh he said, all right, I'll call her. He's like, uh, 1:02:09.800 --> 1:02:12.040 shock us down. You know she wants to do it. 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:16.040 I guess maybe a week later he said, man, something 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:18.000 went down shock ain't gonna be able to make it now, 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:21.280 all right. Uh, He's like, how do you feel about Vesta? 1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:25.960 I was like, oh ship, yeah great. So Vester came 1:02:26.000 --> 1:02:30.080 in and and nailed it. And Will Downing came in. 1:02:30.760 --> 1:02:33.840 Uh George dude gave him the greatest nickname I've ever 1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:36.720 heard for Will Downing. Just take a while. I guess 1:02:36.960 --> 1:02:43.560 what he called him based on his initials w W 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:44.280 D forty. 1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:55.040 What was the story behind your tribute for James Brown 1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:57.640 and the aftermath of that? 1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:03.720 Yeah, I was gonna say, give it us the tribute. Yeah, 1:03:03.800 --> 1:03:07.760 it was your James Brown story is the k Yeah. 1:03:08.040 --> 1:03:13.280 So getting to you finally working with working with Yeah Brown. 1:03:13.680 --> 1:03:16.880 Oh man, you got to let our audience here. I 1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:19.360 know the story, but I'll do my best to give 1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:22.840 you a condensed version because it's long. But the gist 1:03:22.920 --> 1:03:26.280 of it is, we got today, all right, we got today. 1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:30.360 Right on the gist of it is that you know, 1:03:30.520 --> 1:03:34.880 as this man knows. Uh, you know, James Brown has 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:38.800 been like my bone marrow. So by the time I 1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:41.680 leave Philly to move New York, James Brown was in jail, 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:45.360 and so I'm writing James Brown letters like once a month. 1:03:45.760 --> 1:03:49.200 You know, I know he's not getting them, you know, 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:51.880 because I'm sure he's getting hundreds of them per day. 1:03:51.960 --> 1:03:53.920 I was like, it's all good. I just want him 1:03:53.960 --> 1:03:57.600 to know that I love him, you know. So, Uh, 1:03:58.280 --> 1:04:06.800 nineteen ninety three, that's a very CHRISTI and so Uh 1:04:07.640 --> 1:04:10.760 in nineteen ninety three, I'm on my first tour with 1:04:10.960 --> 1:04:15.880 Pat mctheeny and uh, We're playing the Montreal Jazz Festival 1:04:16.480 --> 1:04:22.520 and I'm backstage and I'm walking around and I didn't 1:04:22.520 --> 1:04:24.680 look at the schedule. So I walked by one of 1:04:24.720 --> 1:04:27.440 the production doors and it says James Brown stage plot 1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:30.280 what So I knocked on the door. I was like, 1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:35.120 excuse me, Uh, is James Brown performing? It's like, yeah, 1:04:35.560 --> 1:04:39.840 when tonight It's like what he said, Yeah, he's coming 1:04:39.880 --> 1:04:45.400 on after y'all. Oh shit. And so that's how you 1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:48.440 know you're a busy jazz musician. I am. We were 1:04:48.480 --> 1:04:52.800 opening for James Brown. So uh that night, Uh, yeah, 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:56.240 I see Saint Clair Pinckney and Danny Ray and Martha 1:04:56.360 --> 1:04:57.439 High all the jazz Brown. 1:04:57.560 --> 1:05:00.160 This is the first time you're seeing them? Yeah, how 1:05:00.200 --> 1:05:03.520 do you even well, enter give me first time? I well, 1:05:03.560 --> 1:05:05.600 I mean I'm sure that in your travel you saw 1:05:05.640 --> 1:05:08.720 like macy O and hearing that right right because of 1:05:08.880 --> 1:05:14.000 your level of stand them, how do you how do 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:16.440 you approach? How do you nuance the approach to let 1:05:16.520 --> 1:05:19.320 them know right without freaking them out? 1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:22.560 I got lucky, and I'll tell you why. Because, out 1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:24.840 of all them guys that were standing in the wings 1:05:25.000 --> 1:05:27.280 ron last year, I knew I knew them all. They're 1:05:27.280 --> 1:05:30.560 standing in the wings and they're watching us, and I'm thinking, oh, man, 1:05:30.800 --> 1:05:33.720 this is my shot. There was one brother who I 1:05:33.760 --> 1:05:36.800 didn't recognize. He was a young dude. It turns out 1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:39.920 he had just joined James Brown's band like three months before, 1:05:40.600 --> 1:05:42.720 and it was obvious that, you know, he had that 1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:44.760 rookie look about him. You know, he was kind of 1:05:44.800 --> 1:05:47.440 like standing by himself and you know, kind of with 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:50.840 the band but not really you know. And he was like, man, 1:05:50.960 --> 1:05:54.080 you sound great, man, you know, pleasure to meet you. 1:05:54.120 --> 1:05:55.920 I said, yeah, man, you too. What's your name? Brother? 1:05:56.000 --> 1:05:59.360 He said his name was Robert Thompson, also known as 1:05:59.440 --> 1:06:02.640 MOUSEI Molsie Thompson is his name? He said, y'all just 1:06:02.680 --> 1:06:05.000 started playing drums with mister Brown a couple of months ago, 1:06:05.600 --> 1:06:09.120 and so I think he was relieved to meet somebody 1:06:09.240 --> 1:06:12.040 close to his age that he could kind of roll with. 1:06:12.320 --> 1:06:15.000 So me and mouse started rolling that night. We started 1:06:15.040 --> 1:06:17.480 hanging and talking and I found a little bit of 1:06:17.560 --> 1:06:20.080 his history. He played with Chuck Brown, He's from DC. 1:06:20.160 --> 1:06:22.120 He played with Chuck Brown, he played with Wilson Pickett 1:06:22.440 --> 1:06:27.520 before he got with James Brown. Uh, only because James 1:06:27.600 --> 1:06:34.160 made him. But he is very funky. And so I 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:37.600 got into the James Brown crew initially through Mouseie. 1:06:38.280 --> 1:06:38.400 Uh. 1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:44.440 So Mousie was kind of, you know, metaphorically, kind of 1:06:44.600 --> 1:06:48.440 took my hand and said, hey, guys, this is Christian McBride. 1:06:48.560 --> 1:06:51.400 Is the brother y'all just saw and said, oh, Christians. 1:06:51.440 --> 1:06:54.160 I met Saint Clair and Danny Rain and I started 1:06:54.240 --> 1:06:58.680 kind of working my way in and the the final 1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:02.040 straw came the next year in ninety four, when James 1:07:02.240 --> 1:07:05.440 played the Apollo and he did his final would turn 1:07:05.480 --> 1:07:07.920 out of his final live at the Apollo Record. Uh, 1:07:08.080 --> 1:07:11.160 that's where I met Martha High. Martha High was the 1:07:11.240 --> 1:07:14.560 mother hen of the entire James Brown crew. And so 1:07:14.720 --> 1:07:17.560 Mousey introduced me into Miss High. And then once I 1:07:17.680 --> 1:07:21.280 met Miss High, that was pretty much you know, here's 1:07:21.320 --> 1:07:26.040 your VIP pass, you know. And then do they know 1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:30.720 you're Christian Bride? They did shortly after the Apollo gig 1:07:31.800 --> 1:07:35.400 Getting to It came out, and so then they started 1:07:35.440 --> 1:07:37.440 putting two and two together. They were like, well, wait 1:07:37.440 --> 1:07:40.720 a minute, Oh, that's that's who that is, you know. 1:07:42.000 --> 1:07:45.560 So ninety five, I'm on tour with this Verve Records 1:07:45.560 --> 1:07:49.880 All Star band with Jimmy Smith. Would you say stand 1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:53.640 up my level? So I knew that one of James 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:58.440 Brown's jazz heroes was Jimmy Smith, great jazz organist. Jimmy 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:01.000 Smith was on this Verve All Star our tour. So 1:08:01.120 --> 1:08:04.040 I said, uh uh, James Brown. We were all playing 1:08:04.120 --> 1:08:07.000 the Vienna Jazz Festival and James Brown was staying in 1:08:07.040 --> 1:08:09.400 the same hotel. And I said, if I ever get 1:08:09.440 --> 1:08:13.280 to meet James Brown today, I'm a drop that I'm 1:08:13.280 --> 1:08:17.800 playing with Jimmy Smith. And so by that time I 1:08:17.880 --> 1:08:20.720 knew mister Brown's bodyguards. And he says, hey, man, you 1:08:21.040 --> 1:08:27.200 just plotted yeah, oh man, dude, slow and methodical. I 1:08:27.280 --> 1:08:32.280 knew it was a little smooke SI don't like all right, right, 1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:34.200 and then once you heard the track, you were like, 1:08:34.240 --> 1:08:39.879 wait a minute, that's good at it right? Right exactly exactly, 1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:44.280 So Uh yeah, So Reginald Simmons was his name. Mister 1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:47.360 Simmons introduced me to James Brown and uh, it's mister Brown. 1:08:47.439 --> 1:08:49.400 How you doing. I briefly met you at the Apollo 1:08:49.520 --> 1:08:53.200 last year. I'm friends with Mouses and A oh that's 1:08:53.280 --> 1:08:57.479 right son. Yeah, yeah, you're the bass player, Yes, sir said, 1:08:57.520 --> 1:09:03.000 I'm playing with Jimmy smith tonight. Like what, well, you know, 1:09:03.120 --> 1:09:05.840 I love Jimmy smith Man and so, uh, you know, 1:09:05.920 --> 1:09:07.800 we just he just sat there and wrapped and just 1:09:07.880 --> 1:09:11.000 talked about jazz and still then it was still not 1:09:11.280 --> 1:09:15.800 like you know, just I was just geeking out. We 1:09:15.880 --> 1:09:19.599 didn't really have any real meaningful conversation. So I think 1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:25.559 everything finally took shape. Uh. Right after that, I said, okay, 1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:28.799 I got to stop all this all this fan stuff 1:09:28.960 --> 1:09:32.040 and actually come up with something. What do I want 1:09:32.080 --> 1:09:34.680 to do with James Brown? What's my dream? I said? Well, 1:09:34.960 --> 1:09:37.000 I know I'm not going to ever be in his band. 1:09:37.160 --> 1:09:39.360 He's not going to ask me to do that. I'm 1:09:39.400 --> 1:09:44.360 not sure do it. I don't know, man, just just 1:09:44.439 --> 1:09:49.320 I've heard too much. Yeah, I mean I'm like, you know, 1:09:49.439 --> 1:09:51.400 I mean it was almost like you told me, because 1:09:51.400 --> 1:09:53.479 I remember once asking you had you ever met MJ. 1:09:54.080 --> 1:09:59.439 And You're like, yeah, nah, I'd rather just right. Well, 1:09:59.560 --> 1:10:01.479 I thought, if I have, If James Brown actually ever 1:10:02.200 --> 1:10:04.519 in the in the unlikely event he actually did call 1:10:04.560 --> 1:10:06.400 me to join his band, I'm thinking, what would I do. 1:10:07.120 --> 1:10:09.880 I was like, I just don't know, man, I don't 1:10:09.880 --> 1:10:13.400 want to be putting on them red red tails every 1:10:13.520 --> 1:10:24.080 night and in blue times and uh ms High asked 1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:25.880 me that one time, and she said, would you join 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:27.479 the band of James Brown? Asked you? And I went, 1:10:28.439 --> 1:10:34.639 she said you better not yes, ma'am Okay. So anyhow, 1:10:35.000 --> 1:10:38.560 I said, I want to do a jazz project with 1:10:38.680 --> 1:10:40.519 James Brown because I know how much he loved jazz. 1:10:40.760 --> 1:10:44.280 He's always name dropping the jazz cats. Uh, maybe we 1:10:44.360 --> 1:10:46.920 could do that soul on top record live he did 1:10:47.000 --> 1:10:50.719 this really uh with it soulo and something. Yeah, because 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.120 I figured I would. I figured he wouldn't do it 1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:59.080 unless I let him do that. You know, that's right, 1:10:59.200 --> 1:11:02.800 no matter what song on the actual key is in 1:11:03.000 --> 1:11:07.719 you know, so down, I said, let me ask James 1:11:07.760 --> 1:11:10.519 Brown if he'll be interested in doing soul on top 1:11:11.240 --> 1:11:13.160 with a big band. You know, I would write new 1:11:13.240 --> 1:11:15.639 arrangements of his favorite jazz standards and he could play 1:11:15.760 --> 1:11:18.720 organ and sing, you know, and uh, it would be 1:11:18.880 --> 1:11:20.720 like a soul on top two point. Oh. You know, 1:11:20.920 --> 1:11:23.320 so I'll go back to writing letters. You know, so 1:11:23.479 --> 1:11:26.800 writing on these letters, send them to his office. I'm thinking, okay, yeah, 1:11:26.800 --> 1:11:29.600 I know letters are kind of kind of effective, but 1:11:29.720 --> 1:11:32.759 not really, you know, keep sending the letters, keep sending 1:11:32.760 --> 1:11:35.920 them letters. And uh, finally he came to New York. 1:11:36.040 --> 1:11:41.559 This is in ninety seven, and mister Simmons sees me again. 1:11:41.640 --> 1:11:45.840 I'm backstage head Radio City and uh, mister Simmons says, oh, 1:11:46.080 --> 1:11:49.080 mister Brown, mister McBride is here. You remember mister McBride, right, 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:52.080 And James Brown said, yes, I do, mister soul on top. 1:11:53.720 --> 1:11:56.639 And that's when I realized he had started getting these letters, 1:11:56.720 --> 1:11:59.680 and so he invited, uh, he invited me out to 1:11:59.720 --> 1:12:02.760 dinner with his entourage that night. So now now the 1:12:02.840 --> 1:12:04.640 rubber's hitting the hitting the ground, you know. 1:12:06.000 --> 1:12:06.120 Uh. 1:12:06.400 --> 1:12:21.920 Oxtails, that's right, the oxtails and Champagne. I love it, 1:12:22.320 --> 1:12:27.679 I love it, I love it. We went to Victor's 1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:31.479 Cafe on fifty second and Broadway. He ordered oxtails all around. 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:39.320 He ain't ask anybody what they want everybody that's the 1:12:39.400 --> 1:12:46.920 song say. Oh man. So uh, that night we actually 1:12:46.960 --> 1:12:50.000 started talking about maybe doing the Soul on Top project 1:12:50.600 --> 1:12:53.720 and uh. A couple of months later, actually a couple 1:12:53.720 --> 1:12:56.599 of weeks later, because this was Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving to ninety seven, 1:12:57.479 --> 1:13:00.479 I'm sorry ninety six. He invited me down to Augusta 1:13:00.640 --> 1:13:03.920 for his Christmas party and I said, oh man, I 1:13:03.960 --> 1:13:06.400 can't believe how good this is going. I'm like, I'm 1:13:06.560 --> 1:13:11.120 in the James Brown crew. This is trippy. And things 1:13:11.200 --> 1:13:17.000 went really bad at the Christmas party. Wait, let me 1:13:17.040 --> 1:13:22.120 get it ready right there you go. Yeah. So I'm 1:13:22.160 --> 1:13:24.320 sitting there at the party hanging with Mouseie because that 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:27.000 was my dog. He was my entry into the James 1:13:27.000 --> 1:13:29.599 Brown What year is this? This was? This was Christmas 1:13:29.680 --> 1:13:34.320 of ninety ninety six. Oh wow. And I'm sitting there 1:13:34.360 --> 1:13:36.880 at this table with Mousie and Martha Hyde and Danny 1:13:36.960 --> 1:13:40.240 Ray all these people sitting at the table and James 1:13:40.360 --> 1:13:42.439 was he was cool. You know. When I got there, 1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:45.040 he was like, Miss McBride, wasn't an Augusta glad to 1:13:45.120 --> 1:13:47.320 have you his son? Love everything you do. You know, 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:50.400 thank you, sir. Get to the end of the party. 1:13:50.560 --> 1:13:54.360 We're all taking pictures and I'm sitting there posing with 1:13:54.560 --> 1:13:58.759 mister Brown and Miss High and just before the camera clicks, 1:13:58.840 --> 1:14:02.479 James Brown leans over. He says, so, I'm empty you son. 1:14:03.720 --> 1:14:07.400 I know what you're doing. You can't fool me. I said, 1:14:07.400 --> 1:14:10.240 what are you talking about, mister Brown? Nah, I don't 1:14:10.280 --> 1:14:13.400 get me that. I know what you're doing. I got 1:14:13.439 --> 1:14:20.080 my eye. You trying to infiltrate my organization. Oh you 1:14:20.200 --> 1:14:22.080 trying to take Miss High and my drummer from me. 1:14:23.680 --> 1:14:27.160 Mister Brown, what you're talking about? You know? And then 1:14:27.200 --> 1:14:30.800 he like kind of walks off like pisted right, and 1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:34.920 I thought he was playing right. And so I looked 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:37.280 at Martha How I was like, uh, you want to 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:40.760 help me out? You know. She was like, I don't. 1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:42.679 Don't pay him no mind. You know, he's just tripping. 1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:45.200 I was like, I don't know, he looks he looks 1:14:45.240 --> 1:14:49.479 really mad. And so, uh, I tell Malsie what happened. 1:14:49.520 --> 1:14:54.360 I'm freaked out, like my childhood heroes pissed at me, right, 1:14:57.800 --> 1:15:01.800 and so uh he was like, oh, man, don't worry 1:15:01.800 --> 1:15:04.360 about Brown. You know, see you're just getting in too close. 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:08.439 I said, yeah, apparently, so you know, And so I 1:15:08.560 --> 1:15:10.280 call him on the phone a couple of weeks later. 1:15:10.320 --> 1:15:14.000 We're in the new year now, and uh, I said, 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:15.880 mister Brown, you know, I just wanted to check back 1:15:15.920 --> 1:15:18.840 in make sure everything was cool about that incident at 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:22.559 the party, and you know about those letters I sent 1:15:22.600 --> 1:15:25.240 you with the sold on top thing. He's like, uh so, 1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:27.760 let me explain something to you. I was like, oh, 1:15:28.720 --> 1:15:30.880 I could just feel it coming. I was like his 1:15:31.040 --> 1:15:33.519 voice was tense, you know. He was like, first of all, 1:15:33.800 --> 1:15:36.640 I ain't making no record with you. He's like, I 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:40.040 think you got some mixed up son. If we're gonna 1:15:40.080 --> 1:15:42.400 make a record, that it's gonna be my record. I 1:15:42.439 --> 1:15:45.160 don't make no guest appearances on nobody's record. You understand 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:47.280 this's gonna be a James Brown record. I ain't singing 1:15:47.320 --> 1:15:48.640 on your record. Who you think you are? 1:15:49.439 --> 1:15:51.760 I was like, what your stomach feel like at this moment? 1:15:51.840 --> 1:15:53.320 Like you on the phone, what do you I. 1:15:53.400 --> 1:15:56.960 Was like, I was well, I was I was too 1:15:57.080 --> 1:16:00.160 shocked to feel anything, you know. And he was just like, 1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:03.920 uh uh, you think you're gonna write some arrangements for me? 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:06.600 So I don't need nobody write no arrangements for me. 1:16:06.720 --> 1:16:13.840 I ain't doing no record with you. Secondly, bullet yeah, 1:16:13.880 --> 1:16:16.080 he was like, I listened to your record all the 1:16:16.120 --> 1:16:19.840 way through, and uh, that record ain't nothing. No, no, no, 1:16:20.960 --> 1:16:22.880 you can't play you can't play no bass. You got 1:16:22.920 --> 1:16:25.599 everybody telling you a great bass player. You can't play 1:16:25.680 --> 1:16:28.280 no bass. In fact, I'm gonna sue you forgetting to it. 1:16:34.479 --> 1:16:38.040 I would have well. I was about to break out 1:16:38.080 --> 1:16:41.360 in tears until he until he went here he says, uh. 1:16:41.840 --> 1:16:43.760 He said, you just like everybody else, you're stealing my 1:16:43.880 --> 1:16:46.559 music and and and trying to get rich. And then 1:16:46.640 --> 1:16:48.800 I was like I had the audacity to stand up 1:16:48.840 --> 1:16:50.400 for myself. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 1:16:50.520 --> 1:16:54.519 wait a minute, mister Brown, he said. I said, sir, 1:16:54.760 --> 1:16:56.919 do you have the CD? Because he was like rambling, 1:16:57.080 --> 1:16:58.800 you know, I was like, sir, do you have the 1:16:58.880 --> 1:17:01.639 CD handy. He's like, nah, I don't have it nearby. 1:17:01.680 --> 1:17:04.519 I said, look, when you get the CD, will you 1:17:04.680 --> 1:17:07.960 please open up the liner notes and read the entire 1:17:08.080 --> 1:17:11.080 paragraph I wrote about you. And you know how much 1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:15.680 you've been in inspiration to me and how much Get 1:17:15.720 --> 1:17:18.519 It Together inspired this tune, and you know all this 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:21.599 other stuff. And it's weird because he paused he went, 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:23.960 you wrote about me in the line of notes. I said, 1:17:24.000 --> 1:17:25.519 mister Brown, all you have to do is read it. 1:17:27.000 --> 1:17:32.439 He was like, he was like, well, in that case, 1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:35.639 I still love you, but I ain't making no record 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:43.200 with you. So but see, all of this is so 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:46.320 strange because a couple of days later, I get a 1:17:46.400 --> 1:17:49.640 call saying mister Brown wants you to perform at his 1:17:49.760 --> 1:17:56.479 birthday bash. And I'm like, Yo, this is trippy, and 1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:59.400 I'm thinking I should say no because I don't want 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:04.120 this drama, you know, but I'm an idiot. So I 1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:06.679 took the gig, right. I said, I'm gonna go down 1:18:06.720 --> 1:18:08.880 and play with James Brown for his birthday bash because 1:18:08.920 --> 1:18:12.280 he asked me, right, and so I go this. This 1:18:12.479 --> 1:18:17.280 is May of ninety seven. He had me play with 1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:22.920 some house band down there and at the Bell Auditorium 1:18:23.040 --> 1:18:26.280 where the Sex Machine album was made. And so when 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:28.720 I get there, Mossie, you know it was it was 1:18:28.760 --> 1:18:30.920 funny because like the whole band was like, yo, man, 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:34.640 we heard what happened. Sorry, you know, we told you 1:18:34.720 --> 1:18:38.200 he's crazy man, you know. And so Mossie said, man, 1:18:38.240 --> 1:18:40.080 Brown is backstage, you want to say hi, wish you 1:18:40.120 --> 1:18:42.160 may happy birthday. I was like, all right, I guess 1:18:42.200 --> 1:18:46.560 I'll go with torture. I know, right, So I go 1:18:46.760 --> 1:18:49.719 back to say say hello and wish my happy birthday. 1:18:50.160 --> 1:18:53.479 I was like, happy birthday, mister Brown, Miss McBride, great 1:18:53.560 --> 1:18:57.439 to see you. So what song you're gonna play tonight? 1:18:57.680 --> 1:19:01.200 You're gonna play that song you stole from me? And 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:03.479 so I was just like, you know what, I should 1:19:03.520 --> 1:19:08.880 go to the airport right now, but no, but no, right, 1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:11.960 I gotta I gotta be loyal. And so h I 1:19:12.040 --> 1:19:13.960 played my one little song. And at the end of 1:19:14.000 --> 1:19:20.439 the night, James Brown up on stage. He says, uh, ladies, 1:19:20.520 --> 1:19:22.439 y'all want you to give a big round clause all 1:19:22.479 --> 1:19:24.760 of the performance this evening. Uh let's hear it for 1:19:24.840 --> 1:19:28.320 the Blues Brothers. Uh, let's hear it for Kenny Wayne Shepherd. 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:34.880 Uh Kenny Wynd and the Blues Brothers. Is here for 1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:38.120 Eddie Floyd, brother Eddie Floyd. Uh let's hear for mother 1:19:38.280 --> 1:19:42.960 of two? Uh what Yeah, it was out. Let's hear 1:19:43.040 --> 1:19:46.439 for my daughter Yama. Uh let's hear for Roosevelt Johnson. 1:19:48.200 --> 1:19:53.880 And so he left me out. And so this is 1:19:53.960 --> 1:19:58.000 when I knew that Martha Hyde and and Mousie were 1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:03.160 real friends. Mousie I was waving the sticks like even 1:20:03.360 --> 1:20:06.080 as herd as I am at this point like beyond insulted, 1:20:06.200 --> 1:20:08.920 like I donet got cussed out by the man, threatened 1:20:08.960 --> 1:20:11.519 to be sued, told me I couldn't play. Toy wasn't shit. 1:20:12.720 --> 1:20:15.920 Even with Mouseie going like this, I'm backstage looking at 1:20:15.960 --> 1:20:19.960 Mousie like, don't don't you get yourself fired? No, stop it. 1:20:20.320 --> 1:20:23.320 So Molseie's playing, He's like mister Brown, mister Brown. Martha 1:20:23.439 --> 1:20:25.800 High physically walks up to James Brown in the middle 1:20:25.800 --> 1:20:31.920 of his ranting and like James b said, oh Lord, 1:20:31.960 --> 1:20:34.559 have mercy, I forgot How could I forget the great 1:20:34.640 --> 1:20:38.000 Christian McBride, Oh please forgive me the fugus bass player 1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:41.360 in the world. And and Martha Hyde looks back, She's like, 1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:43.960 you know, I got you. I was like all crazy, 1:20:44.439 --> 1:20:46.800 and so at that point I had no contact with 1:20:46.960 --> 1:20:52.840 James Brown for nine years. I ran into him on 1:20:52.920 --> 1:20:55.120 the road somewhere and I was just kind of like, yo, 1:20:55.320 --> 1:20:59.200 what's happening? You know, kept walking. But in two thousand 1:20:59.200 --> 1:21:03.600 and five I was named the creative chair for the 1:21:03.760 --> 1:21:08.479 La Philharmonic for their Jazz series my job was to 1:21:08.680 --> 1:21:12.200 curate twelve jazz concerts every season, eight at the Hollywood 1:21:12.200 --> 1:21:16.200 Bowl and for at Walt Disney Concert Hall. And so 1:21:16.320 --> 1:21:21.200 I said, with this new position, I got to at 1:21:21.280 --> 1:21:24.880 least see if I can make this happen. I said, 1:21:25.000 --> 1:21:28.200 nine years should be long enough. And so I called 1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:33.320 Charles Bobbitt, the late Charles Bobbitt, and I said, mister Bobbitt, 1:21:33.360 --> 1:21:35.559 you know I'm doing this thing with the La phil Harmonic. 1:21:35.640 --> 1:21:38.519 I'm curating shows at the Hollywood Bowl. And you know, 1:21:38.880 --> 1:21:40.560 I won't know if mister Brown would be interested in 1:21:40.640 --> 1:21:44.000 doing a jazz big band concert. And he's like, oh yeah, 1:21:44.520 --> 1:21:46.720 I don't know. You know, it might be hard to 1:21:47.560 --> 1:21:49.680 make that happen, but let me put the word in. 1:21:49.800 --> 1:21:52.800 See what happens. By the week later, Charles Bobbitt called 1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:55.240 me back. He said, mister Brown said it's a green light. 1:21:56.040 --> 1:22:01.040 What did you believe it? I actually did believe it 1:22:01.360 --> 1:22:05.160 because when he came to New York, mister bob says, 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:08.280 we want to meet with you at at our hotel. 1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:11.360 It's hard for me to say what hotel they stayed at. 1:22:12.560 --> 1:22:17.160 It starts with a T, but uh he said, yeah, 1:22:17.360 --> 1:22:20.679 you know that that guy in the White House. Yeah, 1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:24.720 but yeah, come by there and uh and we'll talk 1:22:24.760 --> 1:22:26.920 about it. So that's when I knew serious. I said, man, 1:22:27.040 --> 1:22:29.920 James Brown, we're actually going to do this. So on 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:34.679 September sixth, two thousand and six, three months before, months 1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:37.720 before he died, yep, we played at the Hollywood Bowl. 1:22:38.280 --> 1:22:41.240 James Brown, how much rehearsal went into that. We had 1:22:43.280 --> 1:22:47.400 pretty much just one one full day of rehearsals at 1:22:47.439 --> 1:22:53.880 Center staging out in Burbank, and we only wound up 1:22:53.960 --> 1:22:57.000 doing I think he sang five songs, five or six 1:22:57.080 --> 1:23:01.360 songs with the big band, and then he did Man's World, 1:23:01.439 --> 1:23:03.240 I Feel Good and Sex Machine with his own So 1:23:03.360 --> 1:23:06.240 it was the stage was was packed because his entire 1:23:06.360 --> 1:23:08.760 band was on this side of the stage. The big 1:23:08.880 --> 1:23:11.559 band was on this side of the stage. A string 1:23:11.680 --> 1:23:15.800 section was in the middle, and we had a drum 1:23:15.920 --> 1:23:18.360 perch for Louis Belson because we had him come out 1:23:18.360 --> 1:23:20.680 and play one song with us since he was on 1:23:20.760 --> 1:23:24.760 the original song on top album. So you love Risks, man, 1:23:25.960 --> 1:23:29.600 There's there's a risk with older cats that you know, 1:23:30.520 --> 1:23:33.040 Lord knows I know that. I mean, you got a 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:37.240 nuance it perfectly. It's not hurt their feelings even when 1:23:37.280 --> 1:23:41.599 they're wrong, they're right, that's so. And he never sued 1:23:41.600 --> 1:23:45.040 you though he never you didn't even remember. 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:54.120 The angels talking, all right, So I nominate Chris the 1:23:54.280 --> 1:23:57.320 second to h d N used to be repeat guests 1:23:57.360 --> 1:23:59.320 because I knew you got yeah, this is this is 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:04.360 gotta be it fifty more we have not yeah, we 1:24:04.560 --> 1:24:05.679 even cracked the surface. 1:24:06.400 --> 1:24:11.120 Well see bro, you first of all, I will always 1:24:11.160 --> 1:24:13.519 say it on the record and off the record, but man, 1:24:14.080 --> 1:24:16.080 so proud to call you my homeboy and my friend. 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:16.360 Man. 1:24:16.800 --> 1:24:22.040 You you breaking barriers left and right. Man, so proud 1:24:22.080 --> 1:24:23.960 of you. I'm trying to keep up with you. Man, 1:24:24.080 --> 1:24:27.280 and I still and I still remember. One of my 1:24:27.360 --> 1:24:31.479 favorite slang terminologies was one of his dad coined, uh, 1:24:31.760 --> 1:24:34.960 and that was cake cake. I never heard anybody use 1:24:35.120 --> 1:24:36.360 cake for money. 1:24:36.120 --> 1:24:42.160 Money before that was that was your pop can white man. 1:24:42.160 --> 1:24:50.320 I got nineteen jobs, Man, you're going and get some cake, yo, Chris. 1:24:51.160 --> 1:24:53.040 I thank you for coming on the show man, Thanks 1:24:53.040 --> 1:24:53.560 for having me. 1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:53.800 Man. 1:24:53.920 --> 1:24:57.920 Yo, Man, this only beginning. I got shared on my 1:24:58.000 --> 1:25:00.720 freestyle and next time next go around, you. 1:25:00.720 --> 1:25:05.919 Would have it yes or v apple font tickeloaf, unpaid 1:25:06.120 --> 1:25:10.280 and uh Boss Bill. Yes, I wanted to say very 1:25:10.320 --> 1:25:13.800 paid Bill and Sugar Steve. This is Questlove Quest Love 1:25:13.840 --> 1:25:16.000 Supreme and we'll see you on the next go round. 1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:25.479 Thank you, West. 1:25:25.520 --> 1:25:28.479 Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This 1:25:28.640 --> 1:25:37.400 classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For 1:25:37.560 --> 1:25:40.599 more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 1:25:40.880 --> 1:25:43.920 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.