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Speaker 1: Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: What's Up Everybody? This is unpaid bill. This week's QLs

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Speaker 2: classic is a basis Christian McBride. He recalls attending the

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Speaker 2: same high school as a mere playing on some incredible

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Speaker 2: jazz records and a Miles David story You did not

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Speaker 2: want to miss here. It is episode sixty eight from

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Speaker 2: January twenty fourth, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Piece Supremo, Sun Supremo, roll Call, Suprema Sun Sun Subpremo

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Speaker 3: roll call, subdreama Sun Sun Supreme A roll call sub

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Speaker 3: Drama Sun Sun Suprema roll call.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, subram Son Supremeo roll subram

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Speaker 4: So Supreme roll call.

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Speaker 5: My name is Fante. Yeah, y'all know I'm filling it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah here with two thirds, Yeah, Philadelphia Experiment.

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Speaker 4: Calm Supreme something something Supremo, role called Suprema, something Upbreme.

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Speaker 6: A roll where tune Suprema.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we set the pace, Yeah, we got them drums, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: we got them face so pray Son so Upbreme.

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Speaker 6: Roll called Suprama this.

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Speaker 1: Sub frame roll the Bones and candy ms Yeah, turnips,

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Speaker 1: mother Steak Yeah, grits and gravy man cracking bread.

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Speaker 6: Son roll.

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Speaker 5: Supremo rolls em Yeah, no question, that's right, Yeah, yeah McBride.

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Speaker 6: Supreme Subra this is you seriously got mem freestyling upping roll.

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Speaker 1: That was the greatest sprovisation of a musician our generation.

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Speaker 3: Supremea some Suppreme roll call Subra son Son.

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Speaker 6: Supreme a roll call. Wait.

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Speaker 1: The biggest surprise of that all was like you not

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Speaker 1: making our guest her third line?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, christ isn't it? That's that's the standard,

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Speaker 5: like brought my.

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Speaker 6: Base, you know. Now you know.

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Speaker 1: Next time, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of.

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Speaker 6: Christian McBride Diaries.

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Speaker 1: This is question of Supreme Uh with Team Suprema. Uh say, hello, guys,

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Speaker 1: how you're doing UH with us today? You know, I'll

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Speaker 1: say that we've had many hip hop debate on the show,

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Speaker 1: but I will still maintain that jazz is probably the

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Speaker 1: most argued and the most debated uh genre of music.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's It's fans are very passionate, and it's you know,

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Speaker 1: all opinions are subjective, but I will as arguments are

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Speaker 1: my favorite. Yes, indeed to watch to watch. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: you got to have your data, but I I will

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Speaker 1: I will say that, in my opinion, I believe that

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Speaker 1: our guest today is without a doubt, uh, probably the

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Speaker 1: greatest living musician of his generation and prop you know of.

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Speaker 6: Currently in jazz right now. I mean, I feel as

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Speaker 6: though he is the.

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Speaker 1: Spiritual epicenter, one foot rooted and the tradition the other

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Speaker 1: foot rooted and experimenting and going outside out of the rim.

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Speaker 1: That's all I can say about one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: people ever, Christian Lee McBride.

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Speaker 6: Welcome to Question Love Supreme. Another homie. Yeah, how sweet

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Speaker 6: of you. I never knew you felt that way. Come on, bruh,

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Speaker 6: I'm I study you, bro vice versa. I know who

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Speaker 6: I'm messing with. Are y'all the same age? Are y'all

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Speaker 6: the same generation? This is what I'm saying. This is

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Speaker 6: what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Even at the age of fifteen, Christian sounded like a

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Speaker 1: thirty five year old like the way.

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Speaker 7: That's why I'm excited, because I want to hear all

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Speaker 7: these stories about y'all being young and being the way.

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Speaker 1: That he talks right now, Like I thought maybe he

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Speaker 1: was a teacher's assistant, like in school he wore like like,

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Speaker 1: right now, he's wearn't sneakers. I don't think I maybe

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Speaker 1: a few times I've seen you wear sneak like he

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Speaker 1: always wore suits. Oh wow, and he was clean, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I my first day of

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Speaker 1: Performing Arts school where we went all right, the history

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Speaker 1: of us is that Christian and I went to Creative

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Speaker 1: and Performing Arts High School in Philadelphia at the same

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Speaker 1: time that Boisteroi men went there.

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Speaker 6: Melue grew theory the same class, same class. He and

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Speaker 6: I are class of. Remember I'm proud of my age

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Speaker 6: eighty nine. Thank you.

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Speaker 7: I know it was I was looking at Christian.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but I'll say that for me, there's a

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Speaker 1: point where where I guess in your teens you got

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Speaker 1: to get serious about about your craft. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean pretty much people know the backstory, Like I've

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Speaker 1: been playing with my parents and all stuff since it's

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Speaker 1: like three, four or five years old, you know. And

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Speaker 1: then my dad was like, well, you know, there's there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a time where it's going to stop

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Speaker 1: being cute, Like you know, you're five, six seven years

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Speaker 1: old behind the drum set, playing on like adult.

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Speaker 6: Oh that's good, he's so cute. But there's a point

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Speaker 6: where you're actually gonna have to be good.

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Speaker 1: And I will say that my first day of school

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Speaker 1: at Creative and Performing Arts is probably the biggest wake

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Speaker 1: up call of my life which has me here today.

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Speaker 1: Like I consider that first day of the day where

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh shit, I didn't know that there

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Speaker 1: are other kids that play way better than I do.

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Speaker 1: And you know, cause I didn't know that, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know any kids, and you know, people my age like playing,

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Speaker 1: like I played with a bunch of oldies cats that

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Speaker 1: were like fifteen s.

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Speaker 6: So meeting Chris, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean on the first day of school, didn't Miles. Didn't

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Speaker 1: you guys do something with Miles Davis on the That.

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Speaker 6: Was the I think that was the following year, all

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Speaker 6: this something on Miles Davis. One of them local channel,

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Speaker 6: Bill Boggs. He used to have a talk show on

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Speaker 6: daytime television in Philly. Uh, they had Miles Davis as

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Speaker 6: a guest, and uh they had this overly, this this naive,

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Speaker 6: romantic notion that they would have Miles Davis give a

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Speaker 6: live workshop like a masterclass. And he's mad. Well, I

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Speaker 6: don't I don't know if he was stand office, but

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Speaker 6: he's he was brutally honest. You know, he's a man

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Speaker 6: that had no filter, not even for a child, because

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Speaker 6: you had an Alice Marcel's moment. I think Miles Davis

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Speaker 6: is thinking, well, like, if you bolted to put me

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Speaker 6: on television with a nine year old kid, you're gonna

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Speaker 6: have to hear the truth, you know. So they had

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Speaker 6: they had the house band, which was myself, Joey D.

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Speaker 6: Francesco on on keyboard and uh Stacey Dozier on drums,

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Speaker 6: our old buddy and uh they invited four trumpet players

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Speaker 6: from the Philly school system to come and play and

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Speaker 6: get Miles to critique him on live television and uh

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Speaker 6: uh not a good idea.

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Speaker 7: Please do what do you say about you?

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Speaker 6: Well he didn't. We weren't featured.

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Speaker 1: Were they were the master Like that's what I'm saying, Chris,

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Speaker 1: Chris was already at master level.

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Speaker 6: I don't know about that. But see, we weren't playing.

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Speaker 6: We were just there to back up the trumpet players.

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Speaker 6: They didn't. They didn't, We weren't. Who were some of

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Speaker 6: the casts that were. Fred Goodson was one of the

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Speaker 6: trump players. John Swanna was one of the trumpet players.

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Speaker 6: Uh Dad was one of the trumpet players and Jafar

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Speaker 6: Baron eleven. No, he was. Let me see, I would

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Speaker 6: have been sixteen, so Jafar might have been fifteen. And

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Speaker 6: I remember Miles pushed him in the chest. Wow, my

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Speaker 6: little Miles gave him a straight left, right and right

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Speaker 6: in the solar plexus. Man, I couldn't believe it. Wait

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Speaker 6: a minute, I know all these years I've never heard.

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Speaker 6: I never told you Miles pushed him in the chest.

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Speaker 7: Well, why did he punch him in the chest?

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Speaker 6: Because after it was over, you know, we all went

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Speaker 6: up to Miles to you know, say hello, and the

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Speaker 6: Miles you know, kind of cased everyone up, you know,

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Speaker 6: and he went he saw you far, he went boom,

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Speaker 6: you've been a practice boy. So what year was this?

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Speaker 6: How old was Miles around that time? That would have

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Speaker 6: been eighty eight, so years old? Yeah, right, your Miles

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Speaker 6: was sixty four, maybe sixty two, sixty two. But that

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Speaker 6: was on the second day of eleventh grade, right something

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Speaker 6: like that. Wasn't that early. I don't know if it

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Speaker 6: was that early in the year, but it was sometime

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Speaker 6: early in the year. I had missed because my parents

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Speaker 6: were on the road. I missed.

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Speaker 1: Technically, I think the first two days of school. So

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Speaker 1: I came in on day three, Yeah, and I had

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Speaker 1: already gotten word of Oh my god, Bill found it already.

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Wow. Okay, I wish

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Speaker 6: I could see what I just saw.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was mad Like for me, the whole

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Speaker 1: experience is mad attimidating because every every high school has

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Speaker 1: this what what what set you claiming moment? I mean,

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Speaker 1: be it an actual what set you claiming moment? Or

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Speaker 1: you gotta choose a click? Yeah, And because you're at

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Speaker 1: performing arts high school, I mean there's different.

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Speaker 6: You know, there's theater, dance, music.

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Speaker 1: Creative writing, right, so then once you choose what you

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Speaker 1: gotta do. But even inside those clicks, there are other

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Speaker 1: clicks and clicks.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. And the thing was on on the right.

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Speaker 1: Side of things was Christa McBride and Joey de Francisco,

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Speaker 1: whom I already knew of, like seeing clips on the

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Speaker 1: news local news, and you know, Jazz brought it to

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Speaker 1: these Christmas Vien Joey thirteen fourteen like playing like and

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Speaker 1: I don't mean like, oh they're q for thirteen year

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Speaker 1: old men. Yes, But then on the left side of it,

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Speaker 1: Kurt Rosenwinkle, Kurt Rosenwinkle who worked on Q Tips. He

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Speaker 1: was on the second Abstract Yeah Comala Abstract record. So

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Speaker 1: Kurt Rosenwinkle uh is a year older than us, and

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Speaker 1: so he has a whole nother click. So basically, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to choose which fork in the road I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go because these guys are talking traditional straight

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Speaker 1: ahead jazz. But then Rosenwinkle's trying to unteach me everything

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Speaker 1: that they're teaching me by like hit me to Frank Zappa,

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Speaker 1: Mount Vshu Orchestra, like John mclaugh and and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then on top of that, you know, I got

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Speaker 1: to survive up in the lunch room and Treiek's with

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Speaker 1: the cool kids, you know.

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Speaker 7: So it's just and his boys and men over there

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Speaker 7: on the side.

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Speaker 6: Were they hung with them, well, they had their own.

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Speaker 6: They strictly hung with the with the vocal.

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Speaker 7: When a hear tells a story, you always say they

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Speaker 7: were already likes together, and pat they were together.

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Speaker 1: They were singing, trying to get girls and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, just as far as what sets you claiming,

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Speaker 1: I definitely, you know, Rosenwinkle was again the jazz argument

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Speaker 1: of do we file tradition in the forties or.

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Speaker 6: Do we move it ahead to the future. So now,

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Speaker 6: But this is why he was such a saving grace

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Speaker 6: for me when he came to high school, because I

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Speaker 6: had nobody to talk funk with for my first two

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Speaker 6: years of high school. I was just kind of in

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Speaker 6: my own bubble when it came to funk. I mean,

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Speaker 6: I enjoyed living in my own bubble. I could do that.

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Speaker 6: You know, I'm an only child, you know, I'm cool

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Speaker 6: with that. But then he's leaving out a very important

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Speaker 6: part of his first day of school. He was playing

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Speaker 6: the bass. He was just kind of new, lying around

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Speaker 6: on the upright base. So I knew he was coming.

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Speaker 6: They said we got a new drummer coming in. I'm

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Speaker 6: here Thompson. I was like, oh, cool, solid, And so

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Speaker 6: I walked in the music room and I see somebody

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Speaker 6: on the base and I'm just kind of just kind

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Speaker 6: of laying back, just chilling, like all right, who was this?

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Speaker 6: And he's playing doing it to death? He's playing James

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Speaker 6: Brown on that, and I went, wait a minute. So

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Speaker 6: I kind of walked up to him. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 6: what you know about James Brown. He looked at me,

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Speaker 6: he said, no, what you know about James Brown. It

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Speaker 6: was at that point, I man, man, you don't know

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Speaker 6: how much how happy I was that you came around.

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Speaker 6: And for the our last two years of high school,

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Speaker 6: it was great to have that that outlet I could

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Speaker 6: go and really talk funk with him. Mother. Lowe had

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Speaker 6: come out in the jungle groove on him, James Brown records,

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Speaker 6: and he studied Jabbo and Clyde Stubblefield, all those Al Jackson,

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Speaker 6: all those great R and B and soul drummers the

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Speaker 6: same way I would study Ray Brown or Paul Chambers

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Speaker 6: or Charles Mingus or Ron Carter and uh to the

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Speaker 6: point where till this very day, should I reveal your

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Speaker 6: your nickname? Yeah. So I've called him Clyde ever since

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Speaker 6: the day I met him, because he's the closest to

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Speaker 6: Clyde Stubblefield. Nobody else has studied Clyde Stubblefield as thoroughly

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Speaker 6: as he as he has and can actually play like

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Speaker 6: Clyde s Doublefield. So I've never called him quest. I mean,

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Speaker 6: you know, I do when what I have have to.

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Speaker 6: You know, I understand circumstances always been Booty and Clyde.

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Speaker 6: Booty and Clyde. That's that's what we call each other,

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Speaker 6: you know. All right, So Chris, there's.

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Speaker 1: Your Your music vocabulary is so broad that I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether or not to go with your story and

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Speaker 1: your journey in jazz or just your opinions on music period,

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Speaker 1: so we can go wherever you.

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Speaker 7: Well, we got to find out how he became a

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Speaker 7: child genius, though yes.

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Speaker 1: He will never admit this. So well, I gotta know

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Speaker 1: how old were you when you first started playing?

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Speaker 6: Nine? Nine years old? Based on because just like you,

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Speaker 6: you know, uh, my dad b Smith is also a

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Speaker 6: bass player. My great uncle Howard Cooper also a bass player,

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Speaker 6: and uh so it's a family tradition, you know. I

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Speaker 6: h I didn't really want to do anything else, maybe

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Speaker 6: pro football at one point, uh, but it was always

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Speaker 6: about the bass. What did you play ball for a

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Speaker 6: little bit? Street football?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 6: I want you to be old, get on the j bus.

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Speaker 6: It was upright That's what I started on on electric base. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: and then I started playing the upright base when I

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Speaker 6: was eleven and I was going to Pepper Middle School

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Speaker 6: in Southwest Philly because I had to play in the orchestra.

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Speaker 6: Wait where was Pepper Uh? Now out near the airport? Yeah,

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Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying. That wasn't Yeah, it was

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Speaker 6: past Bartram it was. It was actually like Sharon Hill.

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Speaker 6: It was behind Bartram, like past penn Rose Park. It

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Speaker 6: was like that. The school the suburbs. Yeah, oh big time.

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Speaker 6: What would you take to get a chartered sefter bus

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Speaker 6: damn yeah.

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Speaker 7: Thing?

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, well we basically took what was the G

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Speaker 6: bus and but it was specific it went straight to Pepper. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I never heard of such a thing. Yeah, man, And

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Speaker 6: so the technical uh, the the exact address was eighty

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Speaker 6: fourth and Lions Avenue. The schools now closed, doesn't exist,

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Speaker 6: but it was this. It was the school built on

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Speaker 6: top of a swamp. There was always a prediction that

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Speaker 6: the school would literally sink at some point. But yeah,

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Speaker 6: it was out there near the airport, near Island Avenue

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Speaker 6: pass Linburgh Boulevard. It was. It was way out there.

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Speaker 6: But they had a great music program. So that's when

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Speaker 6: I started playing upright base really yep, and this is

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Speaker 6: a public school or yeah? Okay, okay, so then you

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Speaker 6: went there all eight years of your No, I went

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Speaker 6: to Hamilton for for elementary school from first to sixth,

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Speaker 6: and then Pepper seventh and eighth, and then Kappa nine

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Speaker 6: through twelve.

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Speaker 1: So what when you went to Kappa, especially those two

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Speaker 1: years before, at what point are you, you know, dedicating

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Speaker 1: your life to Jack at least the serious the seriousness

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Speaker 1: level that I saw you ass Like.

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Speaker 6: What, Well, it's a couple of things that happened. When

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Speaker 6: I was in eighth grade still at Pepper, I met

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Speaker 6: Joey he was there too.

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Speaker 5: No, but.

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Speaker 6: My string teacher, you remember, Mss Keith I think she

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Speaker 6: was known as Miss Funk back then. Was yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 6: so I know right. So she was teaching, she was

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Speaker 6: my base teacher at Pepper, and she said, I think

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Speaker 6: you're good enough to go to Settlement for their jazz program.

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Speaker 6: And so I started going to Settlement Music School. And

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Speaker 6: that's where I met Lovin Hines and Joey d. Francesco

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Speaker 6: and Antonio Parker and Donald Ward, all these all the cats.

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Speaker 6: And they were like, yo, you in eighth grade. You

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Speaker 6: ain't even supposed to be here till till at least

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Speaker 6: next year. But Joey was there, so he was in

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Speaker 6: eighth grade too. So uh, Once I met Joey. We

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Speaker 6: started practicing together. We started calling each other up on

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Speaker 6: the phone every day.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 6: He you think, look, Joey de Francesco was the real

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Speaker 6: child prodigy because he was gigging. He was making gigs

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Speaker 6: in Philly when he was like nine years old. Yes

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Speaker 6: he was. He was. His feet could barely touch the

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Speaker 6: organ pedals. But I mean he knew like half the

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Speaker 6: real book already.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that all right, so there's a real

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Speaker 1: book and there's a fake book. Why do y'all use

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Speaker 1: the fake book more than the real book.

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Speaker 6: It's cheaper, it's easier to get get your hands out,

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Speaker 6: So it's the real book would be the Wikipedia of

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Speaker 6: all jazz songs in book for him.

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Speaker 1: So when you're a jazz musician coming up a saxophone player,

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Speaker 1: whether were there various books where they just court charts.

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Speaker 6: Or well they would have uh you know, B flat key,

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Speaker 6: concert key and E flat key, so.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, like sheet music.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but you you basically, if you're a jazz musician,

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Speaker 1: it would be who you to least know at least

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Speaker 1: eighty of this book?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, because the big is it? It was pretty thick.

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Speaker 6: I would I would say about that big you know,

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Speaker 6: there's two hundred what kind of what songs are? They

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Speaker 6: like it? Standard Autumn, Leaves Misty, you know, take the Train,

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Speaker 6: all those all those standard jazz songs. I mean, because

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Speaker 6: the part of the biggest challenge of being a jazz

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Speaker 6: musician is learning repertoire. You know, because you get on

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Speaker 6: stage with some of those older guys, you know, turn

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Speaker 6: around and say body and soul. They don't want to

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Speaker 6: hear that. Oh I don't know that. Well what you

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Speaker 6: up here for? Get off the stage, you know. So

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Speaker 6: that's part of the that's the biggest challenge there is,

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Speaker 6: just learning the repertoire. So how were you when you

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Speaker 6: read music? When I started at Pepper, That's when I

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Speaker 6: started learning reading music.

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Speaker 1: Uh, anybody can put anything, because that's the thing is

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Speaker 1: that I in my experience musicians that are proficient at reading.

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Speaker 6: I know cats that.

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Speaker 1: Live on the stage, they look at it, they can

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Speaker 1: play everything, but their feelings off. But then I know

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Speaker 1: cats that have awesome feel they can't read a lit

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Speaker 1: So I mean, at what point.

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Speaker 6: Well, it was always a myth that, especially speaking to

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Speaker 6: a lot of older jazz musicians, they always had this

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Speaker 6: thing and they were scared to learn how to read

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Speaker 6: because they say, well, if I learned how to read music,

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to be able to get the feeling

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Speaker 6: into it. But I mean, I think that myth was

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Speaker 6: shattered by so many great legendary musicians. I mean, first

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Speaker 6: of all, if you played in a big band, you

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Speaker 6: had to learn how to read, so Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker,

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Speaker 6: all these great musicians. I mean, obviously they knew how

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Speaker 6: to read music and write music as well. But once

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Speaker 6: I started playing in the orchestra at age eleven, at

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Speaker 6: Pepper started taking private lessons, and I had to learn

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Speaker 6: how to read music. And you know, of course at

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Speaker 6: that time, you read music every day, so I was

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Speaker 6: really good at it. You know. I think I consider

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Speaker 6: myself a moderately good reader now because I don't do

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Speaker 6: it every day. But if I don't want to put

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Speaker 6: myself on the spot. But there are varying degrees of

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Speaker 6: of of of you know, challenge challenge when it comes

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Speaker 6: to the music that people give you to read. I'm

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Speaker 6: fairly quick still, you know, so just in front of you, blam,

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Speaker 6: can you play this? And you're looking, you know, I

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Speaker 6: give it the once over and I write away. I

377
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Speaker 6: just try to look for the problem spots, you know,

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Speaker 6: and I'm just like, okay, what is that? Okay, I

379
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Speaker 6: think I got it, you know, and then nail it. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of where I got off the train

381
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Speaker 1: because reading drum charts is boring. Well, no, it's just

382
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Speaker 1: hard for me. I mean, I'm certain that if I

383
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Speaker 1: seriously applied it, it wouldn't be anything. But I mean,

384
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Speaker 1: you know, just reading drum charts and okay, so this

385
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Speaker 1: is the kick, and that represents the snare and this

386
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: represents the like, there's so many hours of practice you

387
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Speaker 1: have to put into that, which I don't think.

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Speaker 6: And there's so many different kinds of drum charts, like

389
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Speaker 6: you know, sometimes they'll just give you a lead sheet

390
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Speaker 6: with just the melody on it and you're left to

391
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Speaker 6: your own devices on what to figure out what the

392
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 6: accents are exactly. You know, some will give you an

393
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Speaker 6: actual drum part where they have all of the slashes

394
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Speaker 6: and all the stuff on top and underneath, and like

395
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Speaker 6: you said, you know, I've seen like drum like that.

396
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Speaker 6: Shit makes no sense at all.

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Speaker 1: So when some of the older casts come like Tony

398
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Speaker 1: Bennett comes through, this guy like gave his rump charts

399
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Speaker 1: like look at each other.

400
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Speaker 6: He just gave his Just give us the NP three

401
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 6: brother straight up. Well, you know, speaking of you, you're

402
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 6: talking about Kurt Rosenwinkle and he was turning you onto

403
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Speaker 6: the mound Official New Orchestra. Well, I would say that

404
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 6: John McLoughlin and the mon Official New Orchestra where they

405
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 6: had uh, legendarily difficult music. None of it was in four,

406
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 6: you know, it was all in nine and eleven, shifting

407
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 6: back and forth five four, five eight, eleven, four eleven

408
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 6: eight and uh, you know, the I is crossed listening

409
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 6: to some of this music right now. Imagine reading it.

410
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 6: When I went on tour with with Chick Corea and

411
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Speaker 6: John McLoughlin, uh in a in an all star group

412
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Speaker 6: called the five Piece Bad p E A c E.

413
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Speaker 6: I was literally scared. I thought Chick Corea and John

414
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Speaker 6: McLoughlin together, boy, I know I'm gonna be doing some

415
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 6: heavy reading on this tour. And Vinnie the Great Vinnie

416
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Speaker 6: Calu to former Frank Zappa drummer of all people, played

417
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 6: on that tour, and uh, John mcgloughlin had this one tune.

418
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Speaker 6: What was the name of this piece? I can't remember,

419
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 6: but it was so difficult I'll never forget. We had

420
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Speaker 6: to jump on a conference call with Chick Vinnie Call

421
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 6: you to Kenny Garrett, who played saxophone on the tour,

422
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 6: and we're all sitting there trying to figure out, now,

423
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 6: how are you hearing this? Are you hearing it in

424
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 6: five or you hearing it in ten? Or I mean,

425
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Speaker 6: like what, what?

426
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Speaker 4: What?

427
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 6: Where? Where's the down beat? Where's the one The one

428
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 6: part of me actually was relieved to hear Chick career

429
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 6: of all people, asked the question. You know, he was like, man,

430
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 6: I'm having trouble finding out how to count this, and

431
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Speaker 6: I'm like, Okay, I don't feel so bad. Oh man,

432
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Speaker 6: what song was it? And Vinnie call was like, uh, yeah,

433
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 6: we'll see. Think of the dotted quarter note. It's like

434
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 6: that's the actual quarter notes. It's like doom doom, doom, doom, doom,

435
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 6: doom doom. And instead of counting it, uh like like

436
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 6: with the eighth note groove and to think of it

437
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 6: as like a super slow five. What was the name

438
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 6: of that song, Oh, old Blues, New Bruise. That that's

439
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 6: the that's the recul that's the name of the song.

440
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, old Blues, new Bruise. Damn. Even even my

441
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 6: computer's like, right, yeah, or new Blues, old Bruise, something

442
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 6: with blues and bruise in it, and like so it's

443
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 6: a slow five and it's got all these accents in

444
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 6: the middle of it, and I mean, I'm looking at this, going, bro,

445
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 6: I can't feel this, and I'm thinking, well, we got

446
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 6: a tour coming up.

447
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: I better learn how to feel it and quit. Oh

448
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: so it wasn't any question of it. Well maybe it's

449
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: too difficult for you guys, let me.

450
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 6: No, no, no, we had We had to buckle down

451
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 6: and figure it out. And I'll tell you the whole

452
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 6: time we were on that tour. When we played that song,

453
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 6: you can literally see me. I'm gonna stay this going three, four,

454
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 6: five or two. I was counting out loud and unashamed.

455
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 6: I was like, I ain't getting lost in this tone. Wait,

456
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 6: what year was this?

457
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: Uh? Eight eight and o nine? We did that tour

458
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: ten years ago? Yeah, I'm thinking like, oh, post high school?

459
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, no, no, no, this was less than ten

460
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 6: years ago. Really, yeah, So how many years did you

461
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 6: do at Juilliard? I only stayed for a year. That's

462
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 6: because I started gigging pretty much right after school started.

463
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 6: As you well know, I got to know when Marcellus

464
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 6: toward our last couple of years of high school, and

465
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 6: knowing that all my jazz heroes lived in New York,

466
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 6: I said, I got to get to New York somehow,

467
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 6: some way. So I knew I was going to go

468
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 6: to college. And well, I knew I was going to

469
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 6: go to New York. But as cool as my mom is,

470
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 6: I knew it wasn't going to be simple as hey, mom,

471
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 6: I want to move to New York and become a

472
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 6: professional jazz musician. So I went to I applied to

473
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 6: the New School, Juilliard and the Manhattan School of Music,

474
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 6: and one of those three. If I can get in

475
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 6: any one of the schools, at least I'll be here

476
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 6: in New York. And I started working with Bobby Watson's

477
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 6: Horizon Quintet probably my first month in town. But that

478
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 6: wasn't the first gig that actually took me on the road.

479
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 6: The first time I went on the road was like

480
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 6: on a steady basis was probably it was both Roy

481
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 6: Hargrove's band and Freddie Hubbards band.

482
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: And this is after Juliard yeah, So what point did

483
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: you because I think everyone has that thing like I

484
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: did like half a semester. Then it's like I got

485
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: a record deal, I got a gig, So like for you,

486
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: what was it? I mean, did your mom know? Like, okay,

487
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: I think she.

488
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 6: Knew because once, I would say, once May rolled around

489
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 6: May of ninety, I was working a lot, so I

490
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 6: knew the writing was on the wall. I said, my

491
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 6: school work's going to suffer because I'm out playing every night.

492
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 6: I'm either going to have to make a decision either

493
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 6: really focus on studies or go gig. So I called

494
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 6: mom from from a payphone exactly on fifty six then,

495
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 6: right in front of Worldwide Plaza. I don't know why

496
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 6: I was there, but I called her from there. I said, Mom,

497
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 6: I don't think I want to go back to Juliard

498
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 6: next year. And it was this long, like minute and

499
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 6: a half pause over the phone, and I was like, Mom,

500
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 6: you're there. She's like, yeah, I'm here, So what are

501
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 6: you going to do? I was like, I was like,

502
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 6: but Mom, I'm gigging. You know, I'm working a lot,

503
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 6: and you know I'm making money. She said, where are

504
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 6: you going to live? I said, well, my friend, Mark Carrey,

505
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 6: Mark Carrey, who was Yeah yeah, he was playing in

506
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 6: Betty Carter's band at that time, and he had a

507
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 6: place up in Harlem and he had some extra space.

508
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 6: He said, I can move in with him. Well, I

509
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 6: don't know, Mark, carry, I got meet him, make sure

510
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 6: he's cool. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was is.

511
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 6: You were always an adult to me, so seeing you

512
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 6: having a yeah, man, well see man again, I'm gonna

513
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 6: go go back to high school. I've always felt that

514
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 6: both your parents, you know, even my dad wasn't living

515
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 6: with us, you know, when I was growing up. But

516
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 6: I'll never forget how much how tightly knit your family was, man,

517
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 6: And I always thought of your dad. Both your parents

518
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 6: and and my mom the same way. They did not

519
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 6: let us get away with too much. Man. They weren't

520
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 6: hear none of that, none of that crazy mess, you know.

521
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 6: And my mom always loved you, man. She liked the

522
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 6: fact that I think she also liked the fact that

523
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 6: I now had a funk brother, you know, you know,

524
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 6: she was like, God, finally somebody else you could listen

525
00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 6: to James Brown with boy. So what was you said?

526
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 6: The first gig you did was with Hubbert? Well, I

527
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 6: was like, that was like my first major major gig

528
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 6: after I left Philly. What is that like?

529
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: Like is it intimidating from you know, studying? I know

530
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: that you guys like I didn't realize the point. You know,

531
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: you guys are like reciting solos to each other, and

532
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: I was like, ohh, I gotta now study. There's there's

533
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: one point when you you enjoy were listening to I'll

534
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: Never Forget you had Larry Jung's Unity, not Zultron. That

535
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: was the first that is, but it's the it's the

536
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: the second song.

537
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 6: Yes, I think it was Monks Dreamy Monk's Dreams moon Train.

538
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: But you guys were literally reciting every you know. Now,

539
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: I know that's common in jazz music, but I'm was like, wait,

540
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: why did they're studying?

541
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 6: Man? Soul was like that's how far I got to

542
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 6: go into this thing, and.

543
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you did that man, well see I did

544
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: for survival because it's like if you can't get respect

545
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: from I mean, it's like in jail, like you got

546
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: to hit the biggest motherfucker, Like you see the biggest

547
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: motherfucker that you.

548
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 6: Hit him, like you had to speak their language. No,

549
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 6: I think it's survival on on that on and too,

550
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 6: because uh.

551
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: Well, y'all used to also if the cat was sad,

552
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: y'all would y'all would let y'all wouldn't even let him know.

553
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 6: It's like, oh, Man's cat's so sad man. I didn't

554
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 6: want to be the sad cat that well, you know

555
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 6: what used to crack me up. Do you remember how

556
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 6: Joey and Kurt used to see Joey defriend to see

557
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 6: I feel bad because Joey's not here to defend himself.

558
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 6: But well we were in high school. But Joey used

559
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 6: to mess with Kurt like terribly, yes, because Kurt was

560
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 6: you know, he was he was super serious and he

561
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 6: was not a traditional kind of guy. He was playing

562
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 6: great stuff, but it wasn't like straight traditional jazz. So

563
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 6: he'd be in the in the practice room, and you know,

564
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 6: he would be on the piano. I actually didn't even

565
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 6: know Kurk played guitar because he played a lot of

566
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 6: piano in high school. Really yeah, so the first during

567
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 6: freshman and well, I knew he played guitar, but I

568
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 6: thought that was a secondary instrument because I always just

569
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 6: see him on piano all the time. So he would

570
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 6: be on the piano. He be playing all these all

571
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 6: these weird kind of you know, polychords and all this stuff,

572
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 6: and Joey would come behind and be like, man, what

573
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 6: is that ship? Man? Why don't you play some blues?

574
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 6: And Kirk get out of here, man, leave me alone,

575
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 6: and Joe's that's some bullshit, get out of here, all right.

576
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 6: So this leads me to.

577
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: I will say that with as far as Winton's concerned, Yeah,

578
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: you've heard all the arguments.

579
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 6: I'm certain that you've heard both sides. I've been. I've

580
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 6: been deep in the eye of that hurricane.

581
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: I understand that now. I mean part of me just

582
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: from where I stand in hip hop. Were we standing

583
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: hip hop? I mean, like no one wants to be

584
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: seeing as the grumpy old traditionalists and the guy that's

585
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: only hanging onto the flag and that sort of thing.

586
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 1: And you know, especially with hip hop, you got older

587
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: cats that need to contextualize their coolness by co sign

588
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: and something young, right, some progressive like Quincy's the king

589
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: of that.

590
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 6: Quincy always talked about he has a cough drop in

591
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 6: his mouth. Yeah, you know, I love Bro. But it's like.

592
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: I've heard everything, and probably the best analogy I heard

593
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: that Winton.

594
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 6: Has more as far as hip hop comparisons.

595
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: I've heard a jazz guy that I respect very much

596
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: say that Winton is the Puffy of the jazz movement.

597
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 1: In other words, there was a point where, I guess

598
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: in seventy eight where you know, the N Base Collective

599
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: and all those guys were trying to push forward.

600
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 6: I mean, if you ask a cat like Dave Murray,

601
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 6: David Murray, I mean, his thing is like, well, you know,

602
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 6: he came in the suit and killed our movement. So

603
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 6: but then, but I know that win is about tradition.

604
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 6: And then when he did the.

605
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: Documentary with on PBS, yeah, that really didn't help his argument.

606
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 6: This is true much. I mean I appreciated it because

607
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 6: there's stuff I didn't know about King. People got turned

608
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 6: off by that, right, So it's like we're including jazz musicians, right,

609
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 6: especially jazz musicians. So where do you stand as far

610
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 6: as what he represents. I think when Marcellus was was

611
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 6: absolutely necessary for what it was that he did. I

612
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 6: do think, well, you know that that old saying about

613
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 6: the you know, killing a flow with a rifle, you know,

614
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 6: I do think that's deep. I do think that in

615
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 6: his desire to uphold the traditions of jazz. I think

616
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 6: he was quite divisive and harsh on a lot of

617
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 6: musicians that came before and in some cases after him,

618
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 6: came after Yeah, who really didn't see things the same

619
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 6: way he did. I do find an interest in that.

620
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 6: You know, you look at jazz in the seventies and

621
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 6: you look at what was hot at that time. You know,

622
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 6: the whole loft scene that was going on in New York. Uh,

623
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 6: you know this this sort of I don't know what

624
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 6: you would call it, this sort of post online guard

625
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 6: kind of movement. You know, lest the Bowie was hot,

626
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 6: Chico Freeman was hot, David Murray was hot, Oliver Lake,

627
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 6: the AACM was doing great things. And then a lot

628
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 6: of the jazz ledgends you know, your art, Blakie's, your

629
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 6: heart silvers, they weren't getting the same kind of attention

630
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 6: or the same kind of of respect that they had

631
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 6: been getting in the fifties and sixties. There was this

632
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 6: sort of unspoken uh, this, well, these guys are the

633
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 6: old school, you know, I mean, they still play good,

634
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 6: but they're not really contributing anything fresh to the cannon.

635
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 6: And then here comes this young raw kid from New

636
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 6: Orleans who can play the hell out of the trumpet

637
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 6: like no one's ever heard before. And on top of

638
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 6: everything else, he's brashing outspoken that he pretty much came

639
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 6: up and said, wait, ho, hold hold of time. Up

640
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 6: all the stuff that y'all think is great, this is

641
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 6: all straight bullshit. And even if you didn't agree with him,

642
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 6: you had to go, whoa, Yeah, this dude, it's got

643
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 6: some balls on him, you know. And he's backing it

644
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 6: up with backing it up with his trumpet playing. Now,

645
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 6: add that he's got a brother almost more outspoken than him,

646
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 6: but he was he in terms of jazz tradition, he

647
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 6: was very much on the same page. And I see

648
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 6: it's interesting that my manager and I always talk about this.

649
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 6: You really, you do realize who actually changed the course

650
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 6: of jazz forever in the eighties was not a jazz musician.

651
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 6: It was Sting. When the police broke up and Sting

652
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 6: decided to start his dream of the Blue Turtles band.

653
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 6: The fact that he took two of Winten Marcellus's band

654
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 6: members that caused a riff in jazz that to this

655
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 6: day has never really been resolved. I think to think

656
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 6: about something. In nineteen eighty five, Winton Marcellus had already

657
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 6: won I think by that time he already won four Grammys.

658
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 6: He had already he was already already acknowledged as like

659
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 6: the seminal trumpet player of a of a generation, even

660
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 6: though he was only like twenty four, a protege of

661
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 6: Albert Murray and Stanley Crouch, you know. So like so

662
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 6: he was known as an intellectual on top of a

663
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 6: great trumpet player, and he was so well celebrated for

664
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 6: his you know, embracing of the tradition and sort of

665
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 6: resetting jazz's values. And he's got one of the greatest

666
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 6: bands in jazz with his brother, the great Kenny Kirkland

667
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 6: Seann at Mafino based on Jeff Taine Watts on drums.

668
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 6: Sting comes around and says, hey, Branford, Kenny, y'all come

669
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 6: with me. And so this almost seemed very much like

670
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 6: a Cane and Abel because like people were like, you

671
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 6: left your brother to go play.

672
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 7: On a rock band, what you know, sound fun and right?

673
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 6: And so people were kind of like, but Branford, I

674
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 6: thought you how could you do that?

675
00:39:59,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 5: You know?

676
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 6: Branford was like, look, I love straight ahead jazz, but

677
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 6: I never said I wouldn't play anything else, you know,

678
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 6: so imagine when he did Buck Shot La Funk that. Yeah.

679
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 6: So I do know that there was a very very

680
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 6: bad split between him for a long time. They've since

681
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 6: made up. I know it's been all good, But musically speaking,

682
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 6: I really don't believe Winton ever really recovered from that. Really,

683
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 6: I don't think so. I think musically because that band

684
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 6: was so killing musically, he wasn't going to find anybody

685
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 6: else to replace, somebody like Bradford or Kenny Kirkin. So

686
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 6: you're saying, now here's the word thing I just recently

687
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 6: found in oral history on Live at Blues Alley. Yeah, and.

688
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: To hear Wint and tear that album apart, I'm in

689
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: an album that I studied.

690
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 6: You know, that's a great album, So I thought, I

691
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 6: think so, I thought, but to hear him and then

692
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 6: read further.

693
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: Because the thing is is that with with rock criticism

694
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: and hip hop, as far as journalism is concerned, I

695
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: never delve deep into how jazz records were perceived or

696
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, got a bunch of downbeat back issues to

697
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: see how they were, you know, unless it was like

698
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 1: looking up on the corner or something, you know by Miles.

699
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: But I never knew because in my head when Jay

700
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: Mood and sort of his eighty six to eighty eight period,

701
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: I thought that.

702
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 6: Period immediately after Branford Kenny went was thinking. See, but

703
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 6: I didn't see that as a down period.

704
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: But if you're trying to compare it, are you saying

705
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: that that eighty six eighty eight period of Winton would

706
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: be the equivalent of post payback James Brown?

707
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 6: Like, No, I wouldn't say that. I would say that

708
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 6: just mentally speaking.

709
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: Because I thought he was trying to push even further

710
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: experiment and then when he got to the nineties doing

711
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: like the Little.

712
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 6: The New Orleans, Yeah, the whole eighty six you know

713
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 6: those albums he talked about j Mood live at Blues Alley.

714
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 6: I mean, those are virtually only the two albums he

715
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 6: made before he turned and kind of went straight traditions

716
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 6: and went straight to his New Orleans thing. And you know,

717
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 6: he helped build Jazz and Lincoln Center. So I always wonder,

718
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 6: like how much of that was because of what happened

719
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 6: with Branford and Kenny, Like, had Branford Kenny not left

720
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 6: his band to go with sting. I'm sure Winton's career

721
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 6: would have been a lot different different just for for context.

722
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 5: So when jazz music is referred to straight ahead jazz,

723
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 5: what is that referring to?

724
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 6: Like, who are some of the artists most of the

725
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 6: time they well, they're referring to a style of jazz

726
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 6: that is kind of coming out of fifties hard bop,

727
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 6: you know, l Heart, Silver, Cannonball, Atterley, danceable quote unquote jazz,

728
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 6: you know, like blues based kind of jazz.

729
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Saying not bop as in because I knew that at

730
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: a point when they started speeding it up right, it

731
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: was to discourage the dancing, right, So yeah, fastbat was

732
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: more like, hey just watch us and stop dancing, okay,

733
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: So they were the DJ of the moment, you know,

734
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: but they were still called that straight ahead you know.

735
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 6: I think when things started changing, it's like when avant

736
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 6: guarde movement started coming around, and it became less about

737
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 6: it became less so much about overt or i should say,

738
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 6: sort of recognizable traditional melodies or traditional four to four rhythms,

739
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 6: you know, like on that Coleman kind of blew it

740
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 6: out of the water in the fifties and Cecil Tailor

741
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 6: came around, and Charles Mingus's music started getting a little

742
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 6: more abstract, to the point where even some jazz fans

743
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 6: were like, well I don't really quite know what this is,

744
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 6: you know, Andrew Hill.

745
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: And wait you're saying and now I'm like the shape

746
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: of jazz to come was sort of like met with

747
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: because now it's considered or at least beneath the under

748
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: like those records are like considered.

749
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 6: Yeah. No, there were a lot of people who initially, yeah,

750
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 6: they felt it was like heroin music. They were like, well,

751
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 6: you know, I'm not sure I can get with this

752
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 6: on that Coleman dude, you know. Oh yeah, a lot

753
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 6: of people felt that way. You know, I think, uh

754
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 6: the masses did dig it, uh, but it was definitely

755
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 6: a musical shift that it took a lot of people

756
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 6: took some time to adjust to it.

757
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: You came out as a young lion, like when I

758
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: knew like, oh this means things some article on Time

759
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: magazine where they.

760
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 6: Were remember that.

761
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: That was like whoa Jesus Christ, Chris this in Time magazine,

762
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So it was like there

763
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: there was was were young lions only referred.

764
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 6: To as the class of eighty five. Yeah, we were

765
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 6: the Winton spin offs. So young Lions were referred to

766
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 6: as post Winton jazz. Absolutely, yeah, yeah we were you know,

767
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 6: we were considered the uh you know we we were

768
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 6: the Jefferson's two Winton's all in the family.

769
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, So then how do you feel

770
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: about the post generation.

771
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 6: After us, or like the post generation post Winton, or

772
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 6: like our generation or.

773
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: From from after Europe period. There's probably two generations that

774
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: have passed right now. I know me personally with musicians again,

775
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: like the the the universal positioning, the universal quest love

776
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: positioning of you know, whatever I represent, it's supposed to

777
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: be all knowing, all accepting, and you know, kind of

778
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: diplomatic about the ship. So I haven't like exactly been

779
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: like there's some bullshit a lot of right, right, But

780
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: there are a few musicians that are mad at me

781
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: about my outspokenness of gospel chops.

782
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 6: So in R and B play everything. But how is

783
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 6: that in your world?

784
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: Because there's some cats that I like, I know not

785
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: the fall for the okie doke, and the okie doke

786
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: is like if someone does more fancy ship than they

787
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: do straight ahead ship, then that might be a problem.

788
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 6: So I think oftentimes, you know, obviously, technique is it's

789
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 6: a great thing to have. I think it's something that

790
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 6: one has to strive for it if you want to

791
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 6: be the best at what you do. Obviously, it's about taste.

792
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 6: It's about when, it's about when you decide to pull

793
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 6: your your flash card, you know what I mean. I

794
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 6: think oftentimes, because not a lot of musicians have a

795
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 6: lot of great technique, when you find a few that do,

796
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 6: it can be intimidating. But on the flip side, if

797
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 6: that person with the great technique just jams it down

798
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 6: your throat all the time, it's gonna make it really

799
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 6: bad for the ones that actually have good technique, who

800
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 6: have taste, Like for me, Wayne Shorter. Wayne Shorter has

801
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 6: just technically speaking on the saxophone. He has the fast

802
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 6: He has some of the fastest guns since John Coltrane,

803
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 6: probably the fastest since John Coltrane. But Wayne always picks

804
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 6: the perfect spot to hit you with that He never

805
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 6: that's never his numb. He doesn't come out here, it

806
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 6: never comes out of the gate where you know, you know,

807
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 6: it's just you know, you're like, oh, what was that

808
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. He makes you want to

809
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 6: hear it again, you know what I mean? And I

810
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 6: think the whole thing with the gospel chops. I'm with

811
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 6: you all the way, bro, because I mean so many

812
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 6: times I always tell young younger musicians, particularly drummers and

813
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 6: bass players, Look, that stuff you're doing is great, all right,

814
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 6: but do you want to have a million YouTube followers

815
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 6: or do you actually want to work and talk about it?

816
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 5: You know?

817
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 6: Do you want somebody to call you for a gig

818
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 6: or do you want somebody to just pass around YouTube

819
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 6: videos and tell tell you how fast your chops are?

820
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 6: I would think in a practical world, you will want

821
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 6: to gig. And if you want to gig, you're gonna

822
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 6: have to learn to put put them put that shit away,

823
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? And I love using you

824
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 6: as an example.

825
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 5: Man.

826
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 6: I was like, look, listen to quest Love. I mean,

827
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 6: there's a reason why you are who you are. And

828
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 6: now I gonna gash you up a little bit. Man.

829
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 5: Uh.

830
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 6: I can honestly say that after having played with so

831
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 6: many of my drum heroes just jazz and funk, you know,

832
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 6: having played with Bernard Purty, finally got a chance to

833
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 6: play with Jabbo and Clyde, Mike Clark, Steve Gadd Yo, man,

834
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 6: you are easily like one of the top ten of

835
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 6: all time in terms of holding that pocket. Come on, bro,

836
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 6: who who else plays that pocket like you? Man? Seriously,

837
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 6: he's not good with though, he don't sorry, and I'm

838
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 6: a homeboy. Little John Roberts, Little John, he just he

839
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 6: been holding the pocket down. I know how much. I

840
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 6: don't know how many chops he's got too, could my my? Okay,

841
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 6: So part part he was.

842
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: In All City, bab, little John was younger than me,

843
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: so part of me felt like, okay, as an eleventh.

844
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 7: Grader drummer, foret guys not yeah, yeah right.

845
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: It's funny because the first time I met that little John, yeah,

846
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 1: back in ninety four, I was like, wait, what happened

847
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: to your hair?

848
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 6: Like I'm because both of them having to Atlanta, right,

849
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 6: John Roberts.

850
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: But no, it's funny about John Roberts is because he

851
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: was I think two years younger than me. So when

852
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: I got to All City, I mean, he looked like

853
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: his name was little John Roberts, Like he looked.

854
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 6: Like a kid.

855
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: He just so naturally I just thought like, oh, motherfucker's

856
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: playing the tambourine or something, and you know, I'm on

857
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: the drum set and he was cool, like I'm on

858
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: his drum set, but I'm getting aything, tuning stuff up

859
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 1: the way I want it, you know. And then who's

860
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: the the all City Hi?

861
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, mister Whittaker. I was like, okay, uh, what's what's

862
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 6: his name? Am Omar? He was like, yeah, you can

863
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 6: play a tambourine on good News or he'll or he

864
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 6: gave me throwaways on my Hill with the Lord Hides

865
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 6: or yeah, old Maynard ferguson songs whatever, And to.

866
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 7: Watch this little did you have to get your ass up?

867
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: Like?

868
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 6: That was my martin pretty ricky what they call it.

869
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 6: That was my moment. That's when like I was dead serious.

870
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 6: I now have to shed.

871
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: Five hours, which is like usually the neighbors would start

872
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: bitching around ten pm.

873
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 6: Yes, right, so you know that leaves me limited space

874
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 6: from like four to ten pm to do.

875
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: But even then I'm like, okay, practice on my pad

876
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: and all right, don't wait that up, hit hit the bet.

877
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 6: You know, the mattress is something silent.

878
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: But it was like I gotta get I gotta get

879
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: some technique and get like that pressure came on me

880
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: at sixteen seventeen, but little John Roberts was like he

881
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: when I saw him running, That's when I knew I

882
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 1: had to get my ship together and get it right.

883
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: But the weirdest thing about it is my approach was

884
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: to actually do less yause I know every drummer, like,

885
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: there was a point where you know, here's the gospel

886
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: group what commissioned? Yeah, oh yeah, so commission Like those

887
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: cats started get more technique into their playing and stuff,

888
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: and all, like all Tristate area musicians just started following suit.

889
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: And you know, and you know, by that point, James

890
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 1: Brown like his his music was starting to come alive

891
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: more in Hip Hop eighty seven eighty eight. So I mean,

892
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: it's a lot for you to just what I what

893
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: I would call use the force and just damn like,

894
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: all these guys want to show how fancy they are,

895
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: and I got to play less to get attention.

896
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 6: And it's it was hard. You navigated that brilliantly though,

897
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 6: like for the first.

898
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: Four years to just do nothing while all these other

899
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: cats are just dancing around me getting all.

900
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 6: The woo's and and stuff.

901
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 5: And you know, even now like, no, it's the equivalent

902
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 5: of in hip hop, the dude that can freestyle and

903
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 5: get all the oohs and ah's and whatever.

904
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 6: I can't make a record to save his It's like

905
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 6: too short.

906
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: It's like too short versus cannabis exactly right in the air. Yeah, man, yeah,

907
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: so it's But I also feel my dad taught me

908
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: a trick. Whenever he would audition a musician, He's like,

909
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: make him play the ballot. Yeah, like the slowest, easiest

910
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: song ever, and I will watch mini musician trip.

911
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 6: Do you got to go to? Well?

912
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean my dad's songs were ballots, so like I

913
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: would want to do like the fast, funky, you know,

914
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: stuff to see like how they adjust.

915
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 6: And Dad was like, no, you're you're.

916
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: Gonna find out the truth about a musician. Always make

917
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: him play the ballot. You give him the simplest things ever,

918
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: and they will always mess up because discipline.

919
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 6: Is one to be hardest things.

920
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So okay, And I'm not lying about you being

921
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: technically proficient as far as in my opinion, one of

922
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: the greatest musicians.

923
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 6: Working right now music.

924
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: How do you, I mean, what's the conversation in your head?

925
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: Because a lot of times, I'll hear references like it's

926
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: like you still have hip hop techniques to your soloing,

927
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: right in terms of like I'll hear references like oh, okay,

928
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: that was the theme that the Jeffersons.

929
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 6: Right right, right right, or whatever.

930
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: But it's like, what's in your head? Because for me,

931
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: the pressure of soloing is one of the hardest things.

932
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: It still gives me anxiety to this value. But like,

933
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: do you get anxiety to solo or is it just.

934
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 6: Like it depends depends on the song, it depends on

935
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 6: the whole whatever circumstances that happened at that time. I

936
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 6: still have head trips about playing the electric bass and

937
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 6: I shouldn't. And I'll tell you why I have hit

938
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 6: well because even after all these years, I still get

939
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 6: the I didn't know you played electric bass, you know.

940
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, so uh wait, even after nine albums

941
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: absolutely yeah yeah, yeah, yeah no, people still see me

942
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: with an electric bass and they're like what really, I'm

943
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: just like, oh yeah, totally and so like, and I

944
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,919
Speaker 1: see like because I don't play the electric bass every

945
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: day like on GAT.

946
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 6: I mean, I play enough electric bass where I think

947
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 6: my technique is still respectable, But I know that you

948
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 6: get like some cats out here, like our homie Derek Hodge,

949
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 6: who really does it. Uh, you know, all these legends

950
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 6: like Victor Wooton and Marcus Miller and cats who really,

951
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 6: really really do it on a regular basis. And I

952
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 6: don't know. Every now and then I put the electric

953
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 6: base on, I'm thinking somebody out there and the audience

954
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 6: is going, he's not as good as Marcus Miller, which

955
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 6: is true, But I still get really uptight about playing

956
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 6: the electric bass now now houses for irony, except when

957
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 6: me and you were playing together.

958
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: Well, that's weird though, because of the gazillion times I've

959
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 1: seen you. Most of the times it's like you're electric,

960
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: like when your Family Fair project came out, right, I've

961
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: seen you a lot, like I always felt that you

962
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 1: You've devoted half of your projects to That's what I've

963
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: tried to do, tradition and right pushing forward, you know.

964
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 6: You know, speaking of that that recording a family Affair,

965
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 6: I think that was when there was a couple of

966
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 6: things that happened between ninety eight and two thousand and one.

967
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 6: That was when I started to and in retrospect, I

968
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 6: wonder if this was wrong of me to have, or

969
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 6: if it was reactionary. But by ninety seven it was

970
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 6: kind of like, oh, the young lion Christian McBride, Ray

971
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 6: Brown protege went Marcella's you know, little brother club. You know,

972
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 6: it's just like you wanted to be your old man.

973
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 6: I'm like, come on, you all, damn. I mean, obviously

974
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 6: I loved Ray Brown, you know, Ray Brown. For me,

975
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 6: it was like the Muhammad Ali of jazz bass of

976
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 6: all time went Marcella's great you know mentor big brother

977
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 6: to have. But I knew my musical view was a

978
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 6: lot wider than that. So I thought, wow, I'm getting

979
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 6: painted into this corner. I want to do this other stuff,

980
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 6: and I think they're going to start tripping once I

981
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 6: decided to do that. So ninety eight I knew that

982
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 6: I see, I want to do something a little more,

983
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 6: a little more electric, a little more on this side,

984
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 6: you know. And so I hooked up with George duke Man.

985
00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 6: A lot of people in the jazz world they were like,

986
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 6: I took it. Took it like this, Christian, we really

987
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 6: love you, so we're just gonna let you have this one.

988
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 6: We're not even going to acknowledge we're just gonna be like.

989
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: Because when I saw the fonts, when I okay, so

990
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: the day the album usually on the first week of

991
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: your album's coming out, Yeah, I'm buying it. And when

992
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: I see in it and saw the font at first,

993
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, didn't do a funk record and

994
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: not call me, I mean my feeling. So you knew

995
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: from the font it was it was from the front, right.

996
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: But then I was like, because I know, I figured

997
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,919
Speaker 1: that your entry into the music world was the same

998
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: as my entry in high school, right, And I was like, okay,

999
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: because I know that you got a side of you

1000
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: that wants to reference Bootsy and James Jamerson and Jacobin

1001
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: Stores and all these you know, Lewis Johnson, Like there's

1002
00:58:58,640 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: a whole other side.

1003
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 6: Of you that you have you have to express.

1004
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you'll, you'll, you'll salt and pepper, some ship

1005
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: and a cut or two with with with your record.

1006
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 6: But then when I saw that, I was like, Okay,

1007
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 6: he's this is going to be his his flag planting

1008
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 6: right now. I never read the reviews of that record.

1009
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 6: There were none. What was the general because again like.

1010
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: And what was the name of the record, what was

1011
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: the family which is weird because you you swung and

1012
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: I love that interpretation of it. He did a swing

1013
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: interpretation of of of Fair of a slyest song, so it's.

1014
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 6: Also wait, I forgot to tell you. Is that the

1015
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 6: one that opened Sesame? Dude?

1016
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: You ever talked to Ronald Bell about that? He loves

1017
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: you forever for that? Really yes, because he in his

1018
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: head he envisioned all that stuff as serious jazz. For

1019
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: you to interpret open Sesame the way that you did, Oh, man,

1020
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: that made it. That made I always wanted to know

1021
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: if you ever knew that you made his life with that.

1022
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 6: I'll tell you what. After the family Affair, I got

1023
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 6: a call from verdein white and uh, I'll never forget,

1024
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 6: like like almost being frozen for a couple of days,

1025
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 6: you know, like, man, we just wanted to tell you

1026
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 6: we got your we got family, we got getting to

1027
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 6: it and family affair on the tour bus and we're

1028
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 6: checking you out. Man, we love I'll write a song

1029
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 6: for you. Yeah.

1030
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, Elizabeth, wait, I know, I know

1031
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 1: you have crazy stories. Uh, I know that if she's

1032
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: on your record, you have a crazy vested story. I

1033
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: was about to ask, I.

1034
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 6: Actually don't man.

1035
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 5: She was.

1036
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 6: She was pretty mellow. Man. I actually didn't know her.

1037
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 6: George Duke knew her. I brought in these songs that

1038
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 6: I wanted to record, and uh now Shaka was originally singing, okay, stands.

1039
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 7: Walked famously and then she'll send her best girls.

1040
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 6: Though that was.

1041
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: Supposed to do don't look any further real you mean

1042
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: with with Dennis Edward, Yes, no, kidding him up.

1043
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 6: Was supposed to do the power with snap them up.

1044
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 6: She's famous, bless her. Penny Ford didn't pretty.

1045
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 7: She said, I'll send the best girls.

1046
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 6: Yes. I met Penny Ford through Shaka. She was singing

1047
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 6: background at that time. Yes, like so, George, So I

1048
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 6: brought in these songs, a couple of vocal tunes and uh,

1049
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 6: George said, well who you want? I said, uh, well

1050
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 6: I want to get Shaka. He was like, you want

1051
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 6: to make the call or you want me to make

1052
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 6: the all. I was like, well, you know I know Shaka,

1053
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 6: but your George du you know, so you make the call.

1054
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 6: So uh he said, all right, I'll call her. He's like, uh,

1055
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 6: shock us down. You know she wants to do it.

1056
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 6: I guess maybe a week later he said, man, something

1057
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 6: went down shock ain't gonna be able to make it now,

1058
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 6: all right. Uh, He's like, how do you feel about Vesta?

1059
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 6: I was like, oh ship, yeah great. So Vester came

1060
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 6: in and and nailed it. And Will Downing came in.

1061
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 6: Uh George dude gave him the greatest nickname I've ever

1062
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 6: heard for Will Downing. Just take a while. I guess

1063
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 6: what he called him based on his initials w W

1064
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 6: D forty.

1065
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 5: What was the story behind your tribute for James Brown

1066
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 5: and the aftermath of that?

1067
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, give it us the tribute. Yeah,

1068
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: it was your James Brown story is the k Yeah.

1069
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: So getting to you finally working with working with Yeah Brown.

1070
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: Oh man, you got to let our audience here. I

1071
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: know the story, but I'll do my best to give

1072
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: you a condensed version because it's long. But the gist

1073
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: of it is, we got today, all right, we got today.

1074
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: Right on the gist of it is that you know,

1075
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: as this man knows. Uh, you know, James Brown has

1076
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: been like my bone marrow. So by the time I

1077
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: leave Philly to move New York, James Brown was in jail,

1078
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: and so I'm writing James Brown letters like once a month.

1079
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: You know, I know he's not getting them, you know,

1080
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: because I'm sure he's getting hundreds of them per day.

1081
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 6: I was like, it's all good. I just want him

1082
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 6: to know that I love him, you know. So, Uh,

1083
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety three, that's a very CHRISTI and so Uh

1084
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 6: in nineteen ninety three, I'm on my first tour with

1085
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 6: Pat mctheeny and uh, We're playing the Montreal Jazz Festival

1086
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 6: and I'm backstage and I'm walking around and I didn't

1087
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 6: look at the schedule. So I walked by one of

1088
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 6: the production doors and it says James Brown stage plot

1089
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 6: what So I knocked on the door. I was like,

1090
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 6: excuse me, Uh, is James Brown performing? It's like, yeah,

1091
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 6: when tonight It's like what he said, Yeah, he's coming

1092
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 6: on after y'all. Oh shit. And so that's how you

1093
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 6: know you're a busy jazz musician. I am. We were

1094
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 6: opening for James Brown. So uh that night, Uh, yeah,

1095
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 6: I see Saint Clair Pinckney and Danny Ray and Martha

1096
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:57,439
Speaker 6: High all the jazz Brown.

1097
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: This is the first time you're seeing them? Yeah, how

1098
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: do you even well, enter give me first time? I well,

1099
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure that in your travel you saw

1100
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: like macy O and hearing that right right because of

1101
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: your level of stand them, how do you how do

1102
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: you approach? How do you nuance the approach to let

1103
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: them know right without freaking them out?

1104
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 6: I got lucky, and I'll tell you why. Because, out

1105
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 6: of all them guys that were standing in the wings

1106
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 6: ron last year, I knew I knew them all. They're

1107
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 6: standing in the wings and they're watching us, and I'm thinking, oh, man,

1108
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 6: this is my shot. There was one brother who I

1109
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 6: didn't recognize. He was a young dude. It turns out

1110
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 6: he had just joined James Brown's band like three months before,

1111
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 6: and it was obvious that, you know, he had that

1112
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 6: rookie look about him. You know, he was kind of

1113
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 6: like standing by himself and you know, kind of with

1114
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 6: the band but not really you know. And he was like, man,

1115
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 6: you sound great, man, you know, pleasure to meet you.

1116
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 6: I said, yeah, man, you too. What's your name? Brother?

1117
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 6: He said his name was Robert Thompson, also known as

1118
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 6: MOUSEI Molsie Thompson is his name? He said, y'all just

1119
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 6: started playing drums with mister Brown a couple of months ago,

1120
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 6: and so I think he was relieved to meet somebody

1121
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 6: close to his age that he could kind of roll with.

1122
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 6: So me and mouse started rolling that night. We started

1123
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 6: hanging and talking and I found a little bit of

1124
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 6: his history. He played with Chuck Brown, He's from DC.

1125
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 6: He played with Chuck Brown, he played with Wilson Pickett

1126
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 6: before he got with James Brown. Uh, only because James

1127
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 6: made him. But he is very funky. And so I

1128
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 6: got into the James Brown crew initially through Mouseie.

1129
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: Uh.

1130
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 6: So Mousie was kind of, you know, metaphorically, kind of

1131
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 6: took my hand and said, hey, guys, this is Christian McBride.

1132
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 6: Is the brother y'all just saw and said, oh, Christians.

1133
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 6: I met Saint Clair and Danny Rain and I started

1134
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 6: kind of working my way in and the the final

1135
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 6: straw came the next year in ninety four, when James

1136
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 6: played the Apollo and he did his final would turn

1137
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 6: out of his final live at the Apollo Record. Uh,

1138
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 6: that's where I met Martha High. Martha High was the

1139
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 6: mother hen of the entire James Brown crew. And so

1140
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 6: Mousey introduced me into Miss High. And then once I

1141
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 6: met Miss High, that was pretty much you know, here's

1142
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 6: your VIP pass, you know. And then do they know

1143
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 6: you're Christian Bride? They did shortly after the Apollo gig

1144
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 6: Getting to It came out, and so then they started

1145
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 6: putting two and two together. They were like, well, wait

1146
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 6: a minute, Oh, that's that's who that is, you know.

1147
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 6: So ninety five, I'm on tour with this Verve Records

1148
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 6: All Star band with Jimmy Smith. Would you say stand

1149
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 6: up my level? So I knew that one of James

1150
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 6: Brown's jazz heroes was Jimmy Smith, great jazz organist. Jimmy

1151
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 6: Smith was on this Verve All Star our tour. So

1152
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 6: I said, uh uh, James Brown. We were all playing

1153
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 6: the Vienna Jazz Festival and James Brown was staying in

1154
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 6: the same hotel. And I said, if I ever get

1155
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 6: to meet James Brown today, I'm a drop that I'm

1156
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 6: playing with Jimmy Smith. And so by that time I

1157
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 6: knew mister Brown's bodyguards. And he says, hey, man, you

1158
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 6: just plotted yeah, oh man, dude, slow and methodical. I

1159
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 6: knew it was a little smooke SI don't like all right, right,

1160
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 6: and then once you heard the track, you were like,

1161
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,879
Speaker 6: wait a minute, that's good at it right? Right exactly exactly,

1162
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 6: So Uh yeah, So Reginald Simmons was his name. Mister

1163
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 6: Simmons introduced me to James Brown and uh, it's mister Brown.

1164
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 6: How you doing. I briefly met you at the Apollo

1165
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 6: last year. I'm friends with Mouses and A oh that's

1166
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 6: right son. Yeah, yeah, you're the bass player, Yes, sir said,

1167
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 6: I'm playing with Jimmy smith tonight. Like what, well, you know,

1168
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 6: I love Jimmy smith Man and so, uh, you know,

1169
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 6: we just he just sat there and wrapped and just

1170
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 6: talked about jazz and still then it was still not

1171
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 6: like you know, just I was just geeking out. We

1172
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 6: didn't really have any real meaningful conversation. So I think

1173
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 6: everything finally took shape. Uh. Right after that, I said, okay,

1174
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,799
Speaker 6: I got to stop all this all this fan stuff

1175
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 6: and actually come up with something. What do I want

1176
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 6: to do with James Brown? What's my dream? I said? Well,

1177
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 6: I know I'm not going to ever be in his band.

1178
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 6: He's not going to ask me to do that. I'm

1179
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 6: not sure do it. I don't know, man, just just

1180
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 6: I've heard too much. Yeah, I mean I'm like, you know,

1181
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 6: I mean it was almost like you told me, because

1182
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 6: I remember once asking you had you ever met MJ.

1183
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 6: And You're like, yeah, nah, I'd rather just right. Well,

1184
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 6: I thought, if I have, If James Brown actually ever

1185
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 6: in the in the unlikely event he actually did call

1186
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 6: me to join his band, I'm thinking, what would I do.

1187
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 6: I was like, I just don't know, man, I don't

1188
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 6: want to be putting on them red red tails every

1189
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 6: night and in blue times and uh ms High asked

1190
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 6: me that one time, and she said, would you join

1191
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 6: the band of James Brown? Asked you? And I went,

1192
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:34,639
Speaker 6: she said you better not yes, ma'am Okay. So anyhow,

1193
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,560
Speaker 6: I said, I want to do a jazz project with

1194
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 6: James Brown because I know how much he loved jazz.

1195
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 6: He's always name dropping the jazz cats. Uh, maybe we

1196
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 6: could do that soul on top record live he did

1197
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,719
Speaker 6: this really uh with it soulo and something. Yeah, because

1198
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 6: I figured I would. I figured he wouldn't do it

1199
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 6: unless I let him do that. You know, that's right,

1200
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 6: no matter what song on the actual key is in

1201
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,719
Speaker 6: you know, so down, I said, let me ask James

1202
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 6: Brown if he'll be interested in doing soul on top

1203
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 6: with a big band. You know, I would write new

1204
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 6: arrangements of his favorite jazz standards and he could play

1205
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 6: organ and sing, you know, and uh, it would be

1206
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 6: like a soul on top two point. Oh. You know,

1207
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 6: so I'll go back to writing letters. You know, so

1208
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 6: writing on these letters, send them to his office. I'm thinking, okay, yeah,

1209
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,600
Speaker 6: I know letters are kind of kind of effective, but

1210
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,759
Speaker 6: not really, you know, keep sending the letters, keep sending

1211
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 6: them letters. And uh, finally he came to New York.

1212
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 6: This is in ninety seven, and mister Simmons sees me again.

1213
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 6: I'm backstage head Radio City and uh, mister Simmons says, oh,

1214
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 6: mister Brown, mister McBride is here. You remember mister McBride, right,

1215
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 6: And James Brown said, yes, I do, mister soul on top.

1216
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 6: And that's when I realized he had started getting these letters,

1217
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 6: and so he invited, uh, he invited me out to

1218
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 6: dinner with his entourage that night. So now now the

1219
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 6: rubber's hitting the hitting the ground, you know.

1220
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: Uh.

1221
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 6: Oxtails, that's right, the oxtails and Champagne. I love it,

1222
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 6: I love it, I love it. We went to Victor's

1223
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 6: Cafe on fifty second and Broadway. He ordered oxtails all around.

1224
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 6: He ain't ask anybody what they want everybody that's the

1225
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 6: song say. Oh man. So uh, that night we actually

1226
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 6: started talking about maybe doing the Soul on Top project

1227
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 6: and uh. A couple of months later, actually a couple

1228
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 6: of weeks later, because this was Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving to ninety seven,

1229
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 6: I'm sorry ninety six. He invited me down to Augusta

1230
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 6: for his Christmas party and I said, oh man, I

1231
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 6: can't believe how good this is going. I'm like, I'm

1232
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 6: in the James Brown crew. This is trippy. And things

1233
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 6: went really bad at the Christmas party. Wait, let me

1234
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 6: get it ready right there you go. Yeah. So I'm

1235
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 6: sitting there at the party hanging with Mouseie because that

1236
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 6: was my dog. He was my entry into the James

1237
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 6: Brown What year is this? This was? This was Christmas

1238
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 6: of ninety ninety six. Oh wow. And I'm sitting there

1239
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 6: at this table with Mousie and Martha Hyde and Danny

1240
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 6: Ray all these people sitting at the table and James

1241
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 6: was he was cool. You know. When I got there,

1242
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 6: he was like, Miss McBride, wasn't an Augusta glad to

1243
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 6: have you his son? Love everything you do. You know,

1244
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 6: thank you, sir. Get to the end of the party.

1245
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 6: We're all taking pictures and I'm sitting there posing with

1246
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,759
Speaker 6: mister Brown and Miss High and just before the camera clicks,

1247
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 6: James Brown leans over. He says, so, I'm empty you son.

1248
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 6: I know what you're doing. You can't fool me. I said,

1249
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 6: what are you talking about, mister Brown? Nah, I don't

1250
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 6: get me that. I know what you're doing. I got

1251
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 6: my eye. You trying to infiltrate my organization. Oh you

1252
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 6: trying to take Miss High and my drummer from me.

1253
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 6: Mister Brown, what you're talking about? You know? And then

1254
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 6: he like kind of walks off like pisted right, and

1255
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 6: I thought he was playing right. And so I looked

1256
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 6: at Martha How I was like, uh, you want to

1257
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 6: help me out? You know. She was like, I don't.

1258
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 6: Don't pay him no mind. You know, he's just tripping.

1259
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 6: I was like, I don't know, he looks he looks

1260
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 6: really mad. And so, uh, I tell Malsie what happened.

1261
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 6: I'm freaked out, like my childhood heroes pissed at me, right,

1262
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 6: and so uh he was like, oh, man, don't worry

1263
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 6: about Brown. You know, see you're just getting in too close.

1264
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 6: I said, yeah, apparently, so you know, And so I

1265
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 6: call him on the phone a couple of weeks later.

1266
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 6: We're in the new year now, and uh, I said,

1267
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 6: mister Brown, you know, I just wanted to check back

1268
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 6: in make sure everything was cool about that incident at

1269
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 6: the party, and you know about those letters I sent

1270
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 6: you with the sold on top thing. He's like, uh so,

1271
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 6: let me explain something to you. I was like, oh,

1272
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 6: I could just feel it coming. I was like his

1273
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 6: voice was tense, you know. He was like, first of all,

1274
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 6: I ain't making no record with you. He's like, I

1275
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 6: think you got some mixed up son. If we're gonna

1276
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 6: make a record, that it's gonna be my record. I

1277
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 6: don't make no guest appearances on nobody's record. You understand

1278
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 6: this's gonna be a James Brown record. I ain't singing

1279
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 6: on your record. Who you think you are?

1280
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 7: I was like, what your stomach feel like at this moment?

1281
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 7: Like you on the phone, what do you I.

1282
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 6: Was like, I was well, I was I was too

1283
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 6: shocked to feel anything, you know. And he was just like,

1284
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 6: uh uh, you think you're gonna write some arrangements for me?

1285
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,600
Speaker 6: So I don't need nobody write no arrangements for me.

1286
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 6: I ain't doing no record with you. Secondly, bullet yeah,

1287
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 6: he was like, I listened to your record all the

1288
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 6: way through, and uh, that record ain't nothing. No, no, no,

1289
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 6: you can't play you can't play no bass. You got

1290
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,599
Speaker 6: everybody telling you a great bass player. You can't play

1291
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 6: no bass. In fact, I'm gonna sue you forgetting to it.

1292
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 6: I would have well. I was about to break out

1293
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 6: in tears until he until he went here he says, uh.

1294
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 6: He said, you just like everybody else, you're stealing my

1295
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 6: music and and and trying to get rich. And then

1296
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 6: I was like I had the audacity to stand up

1297
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 6: for myself. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

1298
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 6: wait a minute, mister Brown, he said. I said, sir,

1299
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:56,919
Speaker 6: do you have the CD? Because he was like rambling,

1300
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 6: you know, I was like, sir, do you have the

1301
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,639
Speaker 6: CD handy. He's like, nah, I don't have it nearby.

1302
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 6: I said, look, when you get the CD, will you

1303
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 6: please open up the liner notes and read the entire

1304
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 6: paragraph I wrote about you. And you know how much

1305
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:15,680
Speaker 6: you've been in inspiration to me and how much Get

1306
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 6: It Together inspired this tune, and you know all this

1307
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 6: other stuff. And it's weird because he paused he went,

1308
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 6: you wrote about me in the line of notes. I said,

1309
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 6: mister Brown, all you have to do is read it.

1310
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 6: He was like, he was like, well, in that case,

1311
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 6: I still love you, but I ain't making no record

1312
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 6: with you. So but see, all of this is so

1313
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 6: strange because a couple of days later, I get a

1314
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:49,640
Speaker 6: call saying mister Brown wants you to perform at his

1315
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 6: birthday bash. And I'm like, Yo, this is trippy, and

1316
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 6: I'm thinking I should say no because I don't want

1317
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 6: this drama, you know, but I'm an idiot. So I

1318
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,679
Speaker 6: took the gig, right. I said, I'm gonna go down

1319
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 6: and play with James Brown for his birthday bash because

1320
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 6: he asked me, right, and so I go this. This

1321
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 6: is May of ninety seven. He had me play with

1322
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 6: some house band down there and at the Bell Auditorium

1323
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 6: where the Sex Machine album was made. And so when

1324
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 6: I get there, Mossie, you know it was it was

1325
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 6: funny because like the whole band was like, yo, man,

1326
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,640
Speaker 6: we heard what happened. Sorry, you know, we told you

1327
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 6: he's crazy man, you know. And so Mossie said, man,

1328
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 6: Brown is backstage, you want to say hi, wish you

1329
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 6: may happy birthday. I was like, all right, I guess

1330
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:46,560
Speaker 6: I'll go with torture. I know, right, So I go

1331
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 6: back to say say hello and wish my happy birthday.

1332
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 6: I was like, happy birthday, mister Brown, Miss McBride, great

1333
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 6: to see you. So what song you're gonna play tonight?

1334
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 6: You're gonna play that song you stole from me? And

1335
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 6: so I was just like, you know what, I should

1336
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 6: go to the airport right now, but no, but no, right,

1337
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 6: I gotta I gotta be loyal. And so h I

1338
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 6: played my one little song. And at the end of

1339
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 6: the night, James Brown up on stage. He says, uh, ladies,

1340
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 6: y'all want you to give a big round clause all

1341
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 6: of the performance this evening. Uh let's hear it for

1342
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 6: the Blues Brothers. Uh, let's hear it for Kenny Wayne Shepherd.

1343
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 6: Uh Kenny Wynd and the Blues Brothers. Is here for

1344
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 6: Eddie Floyd, brother Eddie Floyd. Uh let's hear for mother

1345
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 6: of two? Uh what Yeah, it was out. Let's hear

1346
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 6: for my daughter Yama. Uh let's hear for Roosevelt Johnson.

1347
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 6: And so he left me out. And so this is

1348
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 6: when I knew that Martha Hyde and and Mousie were

1349
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 6: real friends. Mousie I was waving the sticks like even

1350
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 6: as herd as I am at this point like beyond insulted,

1351
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 6: like I donet got cussed out by the man, threatened

1352
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 6: to be sued, told me I couldn't play. Toy wasn't shit.

1353
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 6: Even with Mouseie going like this, I'm backstage looking at

1354
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 6: Mousie like, don't don't you get yourself fired? No, stop it.

1355
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 6: So Molseie's playing, He's like mister Brown, mister Brown. Martha

1356
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 6: High physically walks up to James Brown in the middle

1357
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 6: of his ranting and like James b said, oh Lord,

1358
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 6: have mercy, I forgot How could I forget the great

1359
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 6: Christian McBride, Oh please forgive me the fugus bass player

1360
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 6: in the world. And and Martha Hyde looks back, She's like,

1361
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 6: you know, I got you. I was like all crazy,

1362
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 6: and so at that point I had no contact with

1363
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 6: James Brown for nine years. I ran into him on

1364
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 6: the road somewhere and I was just kind of like, yo,

1365
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 6: what's happening? You know, kept walking. But in two thousand

1366
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:03,600
Speaker 6: and five I was named the creative chair for the

1367
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 6: La Philharmonic for their Jazz series my job was to

1368
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 6: curate twelve jazz concerts every season, eight at the Hollywood

1369
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 6: Bowl and for at Walt Disney Concert Hall. And so

1370
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 6: I said, with this new position, I got to at

1371
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 6: least see if I can make this happen. I said,

1372
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 6: nine years should be long enough. And so I called

1373
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 6: Charles Bobbitt, the late Charles Bobbitt, and I said, mister Bobbitt,

1374
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 6: you know I'm doing this thing with the La phil Harmonic.

1375
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,519
Speaker 6: I'm curating shows at the Hollywood Bowl. And you know,

1376
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 6: I won't know if mister Brown would be interested in

1377
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 6: doing a jazz big band concert. And he's like, oh yeah,

1378
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,720
Speaker 6: I don't know. You know, it might be hard to

1379
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:49,680
Speaker 6: make that happen, but let me put the word in.

1380
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 6: See what happens. By the week later, Charles Bobbitt called

1381
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 6: me back. He said, mister Brown said it's a green light.

1382
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 6: What did you believe it? I actually did believe it

1383
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 6: because when he came to New York, mister bob says,

1384
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 6: we want to meet with you at at our hotel.

1385
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 6: It's hard for me to say what hotel they stayed at.

1386
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 6: It starts with a T, but uh he said, yeah,

1387
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 6: you know that that guy in the White House. Yeah,

1388
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 6: but yeah, come by there and uh and we'll talk

1389
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 6: about it. So that's when I knew serious. I said, man,

1390
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 6: James Brown, we're actually going to do this. So on

1391
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:34,679
Speaker 6: September sixth, two thousand and six, three months before, months

1392
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 6: before he died, yep, we played at the Hollywood Bowl.

1393
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 6: James Brown, how much rehearsal went into that. We had

1394
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 6: pretty much just one one full day of rehearsals at

1395
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 6: Center staging out in Burbank, and we only wound up

1396
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 6: doing I think he sang five songs, five or six

1397
01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 6: songs with the big band, and then he did Man's World,

1398
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 6: I Feel Good and Sex Machine with his own So

1399
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 6: it was the stage was was packed because his entire

1400
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 6: band was on this side of the stage. The big

1401
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 6: band was on this side of the stage. A string

1402
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 6: section was in the middle, and we had a drum

1403
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 6: perch for Louis Belson because we had him come out

1404
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,680
Speaker 6: and play one song with us since he was on

1405
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 6: the original song on top album. So you love Risks, man,

1406
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:29,600
Speaker 6: There's there's a risk with older cats that you know,

1407
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 6: Lord knows I know that. I mean, you got a

1408
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 6: nuance it perfectly. It's not hurt their feelings even when

1409
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,599
Speaker 6: they're wrong, they're right, that's so. And he never sued

1410
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 6: you though he never you didn't even remember.

1411
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 1: The angels talking, all right, So I nominate Chris the

1412
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 1: second to h d N used to be repeat guests

1413
01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 1: because I knew you got yeah, this is this is

1414
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 1: gotta be it fifty more we have not yeah, we

1415
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:05,679
Speaker 1: even cracked the surface.

1416
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 6: Well see bro, you first of all, I will always

1417
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 6: say it on the record and off the record, but man,

1418
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 6: so proud to call you my homeboy and my friend.

1419
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 4: Man.

1420
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 6: You you breaking barriers left and right. Man, so proud

1421
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:23,960
Speaker 6: of you. I'm trying to keep up with you. Man,

1422
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 6: and I still and I still remember. One of my

1423
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 6: favorite slang terminologies was one of his dad coined, uh,

1424
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 6: and that was cake cake. I never heard anybody use

1425
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 6: cake for money.

1426
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 1: Money before that was that was your pop can white man.

1427
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 1: I got nineteen jobs, Man, you're going and get some cake, yo, Chris.

1428
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 6: I thank you for coming on the show man, Thanks

1429
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:53,560
Speaker 6: for having me.

1430
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:53,800
Speaker 4: Man.

1431
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 6: Yo, Man, this only beginning. I got shared on my

1432
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 6: freestyle and next time next go around, you.

1433
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:05,919
Speaker 1: Would have it yes or v apple font tickeloaf, unpaid

1434
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 1: and uh Boss Bill. Yes, I wanted to say very

1435
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 1: paid Bill and Sugar Steve. This is Questlove Quest Love

1436
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: Supreme and we'll see you on the next go round.

1437
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 6: Thank you, West.

1438
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This

1439
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 1: classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For

1440
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,599
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1441
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.