WEBVTT - We Can Still Feel Good About America - Here's How 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.280 Welcome to off the Cup with me, se Cup. It's 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:08.920 the week of July fourth and America's two hundred and 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.080 fiftieth birthday, and I don't know if you're planning to 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:18.320 head down to Trump's Great American State Fair, but be advised. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.720 I hear the crowds are just unmanageable. There's so many 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.880 people down there, covering every inch of the mall, which 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.240 is nice and big, which is a good thing, because 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.440 it's packed. Everyone looks like they're having so much fun. 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.879 Just kidding, it's empty. It's empty. Have you seen the pictures? 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:42.720 Have you seen the videos? My god, I've seen bigger 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.159 crowds at a Renaissance fair. And that is no dis 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:47.760 to Renaissance fairs. They're great. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.240 They're just you know, a couple hundred people. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.440 I've seen more people having a good time at a 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:57.920 Billy McFarland festival. I've seen more excitement at a poetry reading. 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.720 What is going on down there? Seriously, it's been such 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:07.320 a dud. And I guess as we actually get into 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:10.400 July fourth, you know, it could fill up. Maybe people 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.679 aren't starting their vacations yet. But my god, the videos 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.520 I saw over the weekend and on Monday and Tuesday 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:25.200 they were sad FM. You remember how many artists dropped 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.840 out of the concert that was planned, Well, that was 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.400 sort of like the first. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:33.880 Bad news. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.279 There have been power outages that have melted the food 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:42.720 haul ice cream. There's been empty booths, rain delays, feuding 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:48.760 event planners. The Trump administration has spent ninety million dollars 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.280 on security, sixty eight million dollars on the event. States 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.480 have to pay big Bucks to build their own exhibits, 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.640 but a bunch of them, like Connecticut and Again and others, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:01.560 have just opted out. 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.040 They don't want to be a part of this. They 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.960 don't want to spend this money. 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.400 They don't want to participate in an event they're worried 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:14.440 is going to be super political. And that's probably smart 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.320 to opt out, because did you see what happened at 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:22.480 the North Carolina State booth. Someone put a Confederate flag 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:28.480 on the display screens, like the governor had to get involved. 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.160 What are we doing? What are we doing. 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:34.919 Now? 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.440 This doesn't make me happy to see this event be 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:38.720 a failure. 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:40.680 I like it when America wins. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.720 I like it when Americans feel good about America. 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.920 And the truth of the matter is we just don't. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.480 And we have a brand new poll to prove it again. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.360 This doesn't make me happy. New report from Gallup shows 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.880 American pride has fallen to a twenty five year low. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:06.960 Just thirty three percent of adults say they're extremely proud 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:14.840 to be an American. Now, that's shocking and sad, and 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.519 it should give, you know, the sitting president and his 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.720 party reason for concern. 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.200 I'm sure it does not, but it should. It's the 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:25.040 two hundred. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.080 And fiftieth birthday of our nation. We should all be 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:34.480 feeling great about who we are and how we got here. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.480 I just don't think we do. 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.240 You know, if you want to hear people talking positively 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.800 about America, they're out there. 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.040 They're just not Americans. 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.080 Have you seen all the videos and news footage and 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:52.160 tiktoks of World Cup fans from around the world talking 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:57.720 about how pleasantly surprised they are at how great America is. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.880 It's so heartwarming to see our country through. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:07.760 Someone else's eyes and to have that experience be a 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.720 positive one. That's not always the case, right, and especially 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.000 you know, certainly in this Trump term, with all of 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.880 his fights with our allies and wanting to invade our 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.680 allies like Canada and Greenlad. You know, we don't hear 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.840 foreigners talking very positively about America right now. 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.599 I get it so to see these fans come over. 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:37.000 And talk about how great our food is, how great 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:43.840 our stadiums are, how beautiful our national parks are, and 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.960 how nice our people are, Like I love. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:49.279 I've been going down. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.440 Rabbit holes with these videos because they just feel good, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.080 and I want to pretend. I want to put myself 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.919 in their shoes for a minute and pretend I was 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.200 born here. I haven't grown up here. I don't cover 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.599 American politics. I don't know, you know everything there is 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.120 to know right about being an American because I am one. 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.760 I'm trying to pretend I don't have that vantage point. 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.040 And I'm just coming over here and looking at us 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:23.800 as a stranger. And it's a really nice view, actually, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:32.680 because when we're not talking about politics and how terribly 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.320 our government is being run, how bad our leaders are, 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.839 how corrupt our politicians are, how much we hate each other, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.520 how mad at each other we are, when we just 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.640 look at our great country, there's a lot to be 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:55.200 proud of. But this is the problem, that thing right there. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.680 We can't do that. We cannot take politics out of 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.680 any thing. It feels like. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.039 I came across the social media post yesterday from a 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:07.960 woman that I don't know. She's not famous, she doesn't 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.039 have a ton of followers. That's not the point. But 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:15.960 the post got picked up by various social media outlets 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.799 and accounts because, I think. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.560 Because it was so sad. 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:28.240 She posted a photo of her and a bunch of 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.760 ladies I imagine friends or family in like red, white, 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.640 and blue outfits. A couple of them are holding adorable kiddos. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.280 They're outside at Lake Powell, which is beautiful. There's also 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.760 she posts a fun video of someone kiteboarding on the lake. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:43.240 The day looks awesome. 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:50.160 It's fun in the sun, it's bathing suits, it's lake classic, 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:56.280 all American fun, enjoying our beautiful our beautiful land and resources. 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.040 But her caption. 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.599 On this beautiful post is like everything that's wrong with 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:09.640 American politics today. She writes, do Democrats have more fun 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.040 at Lake Powell than we do? 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:18.240 I seriously doubt it. What does that mean? 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:26.920 What does that even mean? Can democrats not have fun 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.600 in the sun? What are you talking about? Now? I'm 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.200 sure she didn't think that hard about it. It's not 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.720 that deep. She just did it because it's content. But like, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:40.040 this is the brain rot that so many of us 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.320 are experiencing right now. We can't even go on a 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.880 vacation or have a weekend with our friends and family. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:52.280 Without both. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.920 Making a political statement about it and using that political 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:02.240 statement to ding the other side. What do you mean 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.520 do Democrats have as much fun at Lake Powell as 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:11.280 we do? This is nonsense, This is garbage. This is 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.680 designed to turn Americans against each other. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.320 And if this is the world view. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:25.360 Of this woman, and I bet millions of Americans, I 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.040 don't think she is unique at all. And I don't 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.880 think this is just on the right, although I think 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.199 it's mostly on the right, But this happens on the 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.480 left too, where like politics becomes your entire identity, your 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.920 entire personality, it guides everything you do. 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.760 I just can't imagine living. 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:51.240 In that kind of prison and feeling good about posting 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.679 my friends and family having a great time and making 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.439 it political us versus them. We have more fun than 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.760 you have. It's so silly and trip but it's not 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:05.800 really right. This is not a deep post. This wasn't 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.440 the worst thing I've ever heard someone say to someone. 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.520 She again, she's not famous, she doesn't have a platform. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.840 I'm not naming her because I'm not trying to punch down. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.280 This isn't about some lady on Twitter. This is about 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.080 all of us and the way we see our lives. 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.280 If you have made decisions about where you send your 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.640 kids to school, kind of carry drive, kind of clothes 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.679 you wear, kind of TV shows you watch, what kind 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.319 of things you buy, kind of Fuji, kind of vacationis you. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.760 Take based on politics? 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.720 Well, you're not alone, but I would just encourage you 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.320 to be introspective for us. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:53.760 Second, is it good that politics is defining our lives? 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.600 I'm not talking about caring about politics because of policies 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.200 that impact your life. Of course, worse, of course, we 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.200 should all do that. We should all be engaged enough 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:10.079 in the political system to care about and affect change 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:15.240 around issues that matter to us. I don't know what 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:21.760 issue this woman was fighting for when she posted do 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:23.440 Democrats have more fun than we do? 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:24.240 At Lake Powell? 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:24.439 Right? 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.000 That's what I'm talking about. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:31.520 The kind of political costume that you never take off, 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.000 that guides the way you live your life outwardly the 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.320 way you talk to people, the way you interact with people, 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.480 the way you see people. Well, I see people as 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.200 Republicans and Democrats us in them. They don't have as 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.520 much fun we are. We love the country more than 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.800 you do. I mean, this is sick, This is corrosive, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:56.880 This is bad for us. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:10:59.600 Can we not do this? 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.720 I don't like it, and believe me, I do not 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:11.199 excuse the professionals in my business, the media, from engaging 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:16.640 in this. The media does and us versus them kind 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:24.120 of thing more than it should, agreed, But like when 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.880 you're just off on vacation and taking pics of your family, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.800 can you can we not make it about everyone else 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.440 you hate? Can we just make it about how much 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.600 you love your family and your loving life? 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.319 And right? 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.040 Why does it have to be about your enemies? Why 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.679 are identifying enemies? Why is that more important than identifying 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:48.280 our friends? 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.920 Why do we want to be known more by who 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.440 our enemies are than by who our friends are? I 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:56.880 don't get it. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.839 Shouldn't we be defined by the people we stand up for, 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.000 not the people we stand up against. Alone, Right, that's 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.600 important too, but they can't be the only thing that matters. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:12.600 That we all hate the right people. 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.320 I think that's so much of what drives mega, that 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.480 Trump hates all the right people, and that he's convinced 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.319 the Republican Party to hate all the right people and 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.400 the only thing binding them all together. Because it's not principles, 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.000 it's not policies, it's not even really politics. It's just 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.360 that they hate all the right things, they hate all 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:40.360 the right people, and that is so gross, that is 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:41.400 so bad for us. 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:44.160 I hate it. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.760 So please do me a favor. Go enjoy your families 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:52.120 this holiday weekend. Go enjoy life, have popsicles, have hot dogs, 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:58.679 swim in lakes safely and responsibly, light fireworks, enjoy your pets. 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.560 I hope for everyone. Are it's sunny like Do that 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.080 for you. Believe me. Politics will be waiting when you return. 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:12.840 Okay, we're not going anywhere, but we can't keep doing 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:13.600 this to ourselves. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.720 It's not good for us. It really isn't. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.840 Okay, it's not the holiday yet, so we're still talking 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.360 politics here when we come back. A new book, The 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:27.040 Trump Realignment, How Donald D. Trump Redefined the American Party System, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.520 looks at Trump's hostile takeover of the Republican Party. You know, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.559 that's right up my alley, So I'll talk to the 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:46.480 author next. Welcome back to Off the Cup. I'm pleased 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.320 to welcome Kirby Guideal, co author of the new book 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.720 The Trump Realignment, How Donald J. Trump Redefined the American 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.400 party system. Welcome Kirby. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:58.000 Glad to be here. 0:13:58.360 --> 0:13:59.400 Yeah, so this is. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.720 Maybe unsurprisingly a topic that's occupied my mind for the 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.679 past ten years. Right as you can imagine, I'm a 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.760 former Republican, I'm still a conservative. I came up in 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.520 the conservative movement. What Trump managed to do both to 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:18.359 the movement and the party is bonkers, bananas, impressive, lamentable, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.920 all the things. And I, along with many of my 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.960 like minded colleagues, have been attempting to figure out just 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.480 how Trump managed to take over the Republican Party in 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.120 a relatively short period of time and so completely. 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.760 We all have our theories. What is yours. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.000 Yeah, it's pretty remarkable story. And one of the things 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:41.760 we wanted to do when writing a book was we 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.760 felt like lots of people were talking about norm violations 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.640 and democratic and all that sort of stuff, but people 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:52.200 weren't telling this part of the story. And what's remarkable 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.320 was his transformation into this party leader who sort of 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.000 defied conventional wisdom about how you up rate within a party, 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.360 Like if you look at sort of traditional ways that 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.840 leaders might look, they say, yeah, we really need to win, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.880 so go out and be there on your own and 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:10.960 don't be loyal to me. Do what you need to 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.280 win so we maintain control. Trump completely rejected that and 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:20.680 went after anyone who was disloyal and really has had 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.040 His ability to control Republican primaries is remarkable. He's a 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:29.720 remarkable party boss. Now, the people he puts in don't 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.040 always do well. 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.520 Don't always get through a general but yeah. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.160 The general election can be another thing. But in a 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.520 lot of places, the way our country has gone, we 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.360 now have these districts that are overwhelming Republican, are overwhelmingly democratic. 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.440 So you're just replacing one Republican with another one in 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.560 a district that a Democrat probably can't win in anyway. 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.400 So what you're talking about right now, just to be clear, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.000 what you're talking about right now, this could have happened 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.200 to any party. You're not talking specifically about what he 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.480 did to Conservatism. You're talking about a guy who didn't 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.400 operate the way most party leaders behave and We've seen 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.000 evidence of that over ten years. We're seeing evidence of 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.440 it right now with this housing bill. Right bipart is 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.320 a housing bill. Democrats liked it, Republicans liked it. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:15.600 All he's got to do is sign it. 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.200 Republicans could go back and talk about something positive. 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.200 They don't have much to their constituents. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:26.240 He is denying them that because to your point, he 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.760 doesn't behave the way party leaders behave. He doesn't seem 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.920 to care about the midterms. He doesn't care about the 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.280 kinds of things conventional presidents have cared about. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:39.800 Again, I have my. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.000 Theories as to why that is, but like, why has 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:43.760 that been so successful for him? 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.520 Well, the remarkable thing is his ability to move his base. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.280 And that's one of the other important things I think 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.280 about the book is he's fundamentally changed the Republican base. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.640 He's brought in people who are different. These are folks 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.880 who are not traditional Republicans. They're not small government Republicans, 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:06.000 they're not pro free trade, and and and so what 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.320 he's done is he's changed the people who make up 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.560 the base of the political party. And those people go 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.439 out when he tells them to go out. And so 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.920 his endorsements within those primaries really really matter. But yeah, 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.520 but if he didn't have control of the base, his 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.560 threats wouldn't matter. It's it's the ability. Republicans are afraid 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.959 that he will come out and say, don't support this 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.560 particular and he's done it over and over again, and 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.240 he's been successful and knocking off people who have challenged him. 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.160 And and as an analyst, sometimes I watch and I'm 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.439 sure you're thinking the same thing. Sometimes you're like, why 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.760 don't Republicans all get together and say we're not going 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:41.840 to take this anymore? 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:42.200 Right? 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.159 But he's been really too late for that. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.040 But yeah, but he just picks. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.640 Them off one by one. He's able to isolate them 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.919 and and the other the other Republicans they'll say, oh, 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.480 that could happen to me in the future. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.520 Instead they oh, well, I mean that is the interesting thing, 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.600 because your point is correct. His brought in all kinds 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.480 of new voters that you know, we really haven't seen 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.960 part of the Republican coalition since Reagan. Maybe you know, 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.320 Reagan won a bunch of Hispanic voters, for example, a 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.520 bunch more black voters than previous Repuldicans have. But he 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.280 really has the other side of that coin, though, are 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.720 all the good conservatives he's kicked out so along the 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:27.720 way in opening the tent to some unsavory characters as well, 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.040 he's also shrunk of the tent, which again is like 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.760 opposite of what political projects have been trying to do 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.920 for centuries. Right, the project is addition, not subtraction. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.400 How has the Republican Party managed to. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:46.560 Win not just locally but general elections, national elections while 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:47.560 shrinking its tent. 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.480 Yeah, that's that's that's that's a great question. And and really, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.600 you know, if you're watching from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.280 what you see as Trump's doing fairly well in terms 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.520 of the economy up until COVID, and then he's really 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.720 not a very good manager of the economy. And that's 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.480 the reason he loses if he we don't have COVID. 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.439 Possibly he goes on and wins during that cycle. But 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.960 we live in a two party system and most of 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.320 the districts aren't competitive, and so all you have to 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.240 do is be not as bad as the other side. Yeah, 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.840 you know, And there's another political scientist who talks about this. 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.800 He calls it the two party doom loop because you 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.480 don't have to be good, you just have to be 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.280 better than the other side. And so in many cases 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.040 he's getting an assist from the Democratic Party, which has 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:38.000 not been very good. 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.640 Right, And I do want to talk about the Democrats, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.680 because this project, this book is really how Trump sort 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.720 of reordered and redefined the entire political system, not just 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:48.480 the Republican Party. 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:49.880 So I do want to talk about Democrats. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.680 But before we get there, I think it's really again 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.320 like impressive slash lamentable depending on where you are, how 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:04.280 Trump got conservatives to jettison the conservatism because he didn't 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.840 care about it, right, So you've mentioned things like free trade, 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.639 you know, lowering the debt and the deficit, limited government, 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.560 all the things that I grew up with, as you know, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:18.879 coming into a conservative movement led by a canon of 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.880 like hayek Intwtokville, and you know, the principles and founders 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:23.520 and philosophies. 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.280 He didn't care about any of that, which is his right. 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:27.000 But how does he. 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:32.159 Get like the nation's top deficit hawk, Mike Pence to 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.080 like co sign exploding the debt and the deficit. How 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.600 does he get Republican leadership to sort of say, well, 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:43.920 forget law and order. The insurrectionists were patriots, right, all 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.439 the things that had really glued us together as a 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.240 big tent. Despite all of our disparate interests, we were 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.840 glued together by these found acial little things. How did 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:59.720 he get Republican leadership, not just voters leadership, to stop 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:00.840 care about this stuff? 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.679 Well, I think one, he really captures the sort of 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.920 anti elite anger that a lot of people feel, and 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.439 so he really embodies that. But then you also have 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.640 to sort of place it in the context of where 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.720 were Where were Republicans before twenty sixteen. There's this fear, 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:22.719 right the James Carvel argument that Obama had mobilized this 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.960 group of young voters and Republicans would never win again 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:31.160 because they didn't appeal to anybody beyond this very We. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:32.159 Did a whole autopsy. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.320 I worked on it just to address us, to just 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.160 to address those concerns continue, and so there was. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.000 That that very real fear, and Trump brought energy and 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.919 mobilization back into a party that felt like, you know, 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.040 it was unsure of what its future was. Now it 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.000 seems really because of the autopsy, it seemed like he 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.480 went opposite. 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.440 Oh yeah, oh yeah, it did went, yeah. 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.960 He completely ignored the autopsy. He didn't do anything that 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.160 the autopsy reckoned, and yet he still mobilized this new 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.760 group of voters to come into the political party. And 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.040 so you got people like, for example, Lindsey Graham, who's 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.080 very negative about Trump, but then sees like, wait a second, 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:16.240 he really is pulling new people in. Yeah, and maybe 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.399 this is a ticket to power and control. And I 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.639 think that's the critical trade off that Republicans made, and 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:25.879 a lot of the elite Republicans and the conservative Republicans 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.240 and the ones that I think about it fitting very 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.480 well in the Reagan mode. I put Mike Pence in 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:35.080 that group. Yeah, who said, oh, we can have power 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.080 and control and maybe we can do some of these 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.640 things and maybe we can keep that other stuff under control. 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:45.960 And then they found out, now you lost control of 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:46.439 the party. 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.040 I'm so glad you brought up where Republicans were before 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:55.000 twenty sixteen, because there's lots of reasons of look why 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.320 we got Trump and how he got to Trump, but 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.760 one of them, and I'm writing about this right now, 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.520 is that Republicans were fractured and vulnerable, and we did 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:09.879 that to ourselves. I remember starting like the early two thousands, 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:15.720 we started cannibalizing the party. We started purity testing and 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.280 purging and rhino hunting. This all began with the Club 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.280 for Growth in the early two thousands, and then we 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.640 got mad at Bush for the bailing out the banks 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.440 that entered in like the Tea Party wave, and now 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:32.440 you've got Tea Party Conservatives met at other conservatives. 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:33.680 People forget that. 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.520 When McCain and Romney were nominated, two of like the 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:42.320 greatest candidates, most moral, decent men we could have ever 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:46.520 put up there, they didn't win just because Obama was 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.840 so great and he was. They didn't win because Republicans 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.640 weren't sold on either of those guys. And so by 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:58.399 the time twenty sixteen comes around, the party's fractured. You 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:02.320 get seventeen other guys running, and Trump gets to win 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:07.119