WEBVTT - How the NSA Works 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.360 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:12.920 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.079 Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry with 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:21.680 her stories she makes up and this is w should know. 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:25.919 Uh yeah, we have a Jerry story, but not for 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.640 this one. For the oven we're recording and spoiler coming up? 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.120 What's the spoiler? Like, he just gave a spoiler about 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.440 a spoiler that Jerry has a personal story relating to 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:41.320 the second of the two shows we're reporting today. Not 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.560 much of a spoiler, but people love any nugget from Jerry. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.240 They're like, oh my god, what is it, right, especially 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.599 when she talks Yeah, um Chuck. Yes. So if we 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:55.880 weren't on any sort of watch list before, after researching 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.000 yesterday and today for this episode, we most decidedly are 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.920 some kind of red list. Yeah, if that's the highest list, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.560 I would guess we're probably on it. Yeah. I don't 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.319 know if that's the highest, but it's a list that 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.240 we're probably on, or at least on the same list 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.560 as Glenn Greenwald, who I think is a righteous dude. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.160 Did you read his book? Right? Uh huh yeah, yeah, 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.640 Oh thanks for bringing that up. I think that we 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.800 should point out a few pieces of required reading slash 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.280 viewing for this one. If if, if this episode like 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.520 strikes your fancy, read Glenn Greenwald's book No Place to 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.839 Hide awesome, like all sorts of new revelations in there, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.319 and like his take on the media and how um 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.039 it's just a great read. Have you read it? You should? 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.440 I will. Um. You should also read why Privacy Matters 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.800 even if you have Nothing to Hide, which is an 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.360 article by Daniel J. Solov in the Chronicle for Higher 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.200 Education that is a must read because I think that's 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.400 a lot of people's argument is that, well, you know, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.800 if you're known to terrorists, and what do you care exactly? 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.080 It does matter? He dim all, it's just that argument. Well, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.880 it's not an argument, um, And then argument and then 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.880 you should also watch parts one and two I think 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.040 they're both online of the United States of Secrets, which 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.680 is a front Line. I haven't seen that documentary. It's amazing. Yeah, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.399 it's so good. And Frontline, which is always good. Yeah, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.680 it's just like a great nonfiction magazine article. But for 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:28.240 your eyes come to life. Yeah, thanks man. So, um, 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:30.520 was there anything in here that you didn't really know 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.320 about the n S A well, yeah, I mean I 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.600 imagine we'll cover it in this order, which is a 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.960 little bit about the organization and then all the scary 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.160 things that they do. Um. But yeah, I mean I 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:49.760 read a lot of uh Edward Snowden's revelations, but there 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:53.040 were so many. Um, I think you have to read 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.560 a book. Yeah. I mean when we were researching this, 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.880 there were things like that I didn't know about. And 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.880 it's such an ongoing, like ever evolving story too, that 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.320 like if if I was reading an article and it 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.840 was from longer than a year ago, you know, it 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.480 was virtually useless because that was Priest Noden revelations. And 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.560 then even the stuff that came out in like June two, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.200 it's they seem so naive. Now it's just like, oh, 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.920 the n S as admitted to this. Oh, and it 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.040 turns out that they were totally lying, but so now 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.640 they've admitted to this, and then you know, it just 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.880 kept expanding and every time like they were just just 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.280 admitting just the barest minimum. And then there was another 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.600 revelation and it just showed that whatever they admitted to 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.640 could be magnified times a thousand or whatever. Yeah, I 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:43.520 listen to an NPR thing on just the the policing 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.080 of the police essentially, or the policing of the n 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.400 s A, and how it's virtually impossible because their whole 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.360 deal is two and I guess this is the beginning 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.600 of what they do. It's not only do they try 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.320 and crack codes and intercept messages, but they're also charge 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.400 with safeguarding their own and a lot of the government 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.880 agency's own, uh important information. So the police and organization 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.280 like that. It's just it's an exercise and futility because 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:15.480 their job is to avoid that. Yeah, they encrypt and decrypt. Yeah, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.200 so it's tough and there's no checks and balances. It 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.520 seems like it's scary. Yeah, they're supposed to be. But 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.279 we'll talk about that in a minute. So let's talk 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:28.960 n say, the whole thing came about in h under 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.120 Harry Truman that stood for nothing. Yeah, And I want 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:34.400 to go ahead and point out now I'm not gonna 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.280 get to opinion aated, but I don't feel that there 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.360 should not be something like the n s A because 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:45.039 they serve a valuable you know service. Um, But you 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:46.839 have to do in the right ways, sure, and I 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.320 don't think they are right. And that's the last thing 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.880 I'm going to say opinion life. Everything else will be 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.400 just fact. I just don't want this to come across 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.040 as like poopooing, like they should shut them down forever. Well, yeah, 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.520 I think you just overtly said you don't feel that way. 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.240 Harry Truman, Harry S. Truman and the st for nothing, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:11.240 that's right. Um, he created the n s A basically two, um, 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:17.080 try to get electronic information eavesdropping on other countries and 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.440 do some encryption. So basically from the beginning, the NSA 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.920 has had the same dual mission that it has today. Yeah. 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.560 Officially that's called signets, which, um, everyone loves the acronyms 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:33.000 and these intelligence agencies and military signal intelligence. That's the 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.000 eaves dropping part. Yeah. And then information assurance, which is 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.480 you know, trying to assure them all that their information 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.240 is safe, so safeguarding and by encrypting it. Yeah. So 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.080 they've been doing that since the beginning. The thing is is, 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.600 since even though they've been around since nineteen fifty two, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.400 they haven't been publicly acknowledged as existing until the mid seventies. 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.560 Thanks to the Church Committee hearings which sussed out all 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:02.600 sorts of intelligence community to abuses like the CIA experimenting 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.680 on unsuspecting Americans with LSD and what the n s 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.200 A was up tune. Until that point, it was just 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.040 outright denied that the n s A even existed. Yeah, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.000 and uh, a lot of people might think the CIA 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.680 is the same thing, But n s A is generally 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.400 just intelligence, and c i A is acting on that 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.640 intelligence exactly out in the field. And I say, their 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.680 hold up in some room somewhere, and they've been keeping 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.440 in locks locks step over the years, well especially since 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.320 two thousand one. I shouldn't say over the years, but 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:38.679 really since two thousand one, they've been kind of symbiotically 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.400 growing with the Internet, um and as a result they 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:47.120 become incredibly more prominent as far as the seventeen agencies 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.000 tasked with gathering and collecting and analyzing intelligence for the 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.960 executive branch go um, maybe even more so than the 0:06:55.000 --> 0:07:00.200 CIA these days, because their job, what they do, fits 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:05.040 so nicely into the expansion of the Internet. Like basically 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.599 they can do their job just by tapping into the Internet. 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.000 And they've spent the last decade or so figuring out 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.680 how to do that more efficiently. They love the Internet 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:14.920 and to gather as much stuff as possible. It's that's right. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.920 It's basically like they used to have to and I'm 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.280 not saying it's not hard work, but now basically they said, well, 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.960 every all the information we need for the most part 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.320 is now gathered in one big corral exactly called online. Yeah, 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.480 and everybody just just tell your friend whatever you want. 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.880 It's secret. Uh, you know, share what you like on Facebook. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.160 We can't put it together with all the other data 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.480 and can create a complete profile on you and know 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.559 you better than your mother. That's why number stations, buddy. Yeah, 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.440 it's gonna go back to the past. I wonder I 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:53.040 could see it. I mean, I'm surely bad people realize 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:54.520 that the internet is not a safe way to do 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.320 business anymore. Yeah, but there's such a reliance on that 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.040 kind of communication that it's on. I mean, have we 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.480 passed the point in our return where it's like it's 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.679 just people just don't talk on the phone about stuff 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.760 like that anymore. People don't talk on the phone anymore, right, 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.160 or they don't talk over email anymore. Yeah, you know, alright, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.120 So the n s a works alongside the something called 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.520 the c SS, the Central Security Service, and they are 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.160 basically the military side that does the same thing that 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.120 the n s A does. Right, So, from what I understand, 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:32.720 as of two thousand thirteen, there was thirty thousand military 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.520 personnel as part of the n s A, So maybe 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.800 that's what makes up the c s S, and then 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:42.160 sixty thousand and seventy thousand contractors working for the n 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.520 s A. So basically there's like ninety hundred thousand people 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.240 who work for the n s A. Yeah, and that 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.800 contractor's number maybe going down because, Um, one of the 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.959 fears that the government now has because Edward Snowden was 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.560 a contractor, is that we've got way too many civilian 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.840 contractors working uh for us. Maybe. So the thing is 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.640 is Snowdon was portrayed as a low level, a Booze 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.000 Allen contractor. And did you watch that interview with him 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.520 on NBC I think a couple of months ago. It 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.720 was the only American interview he's given to this point. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:19.680 Didn't he basically said, actually didn't even basically said. He said, 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.560 I'm a spy. I'm a highly trained spy. This whole 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.000 thing where they're saying like I was a low level contractor. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.800 He's like, that's not true. He said, I've been working 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.200 undercover in a foreign country for the c I A. 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.760 I've worked undercover for in a foreign country for the 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.600 N s A. So the whole idea that just some 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.120 low level contractor had access to all this stuff is 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.720 not correct. He was like a pretty high level spy. Yes, 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.440 supposedly they're not interested in him anymore, although I don't 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.480 buy it. I don't buy that. They came out like 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.160 literally two days ago and said, you know what, as 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.560 time goes on here, his information is less and less relevant. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.600 That's now, that's true, And they said, so we honestly, 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.360 he's because he's trying to cut it the to get 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.160 back to the US and now or at least it 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.800 may change. But now they're saying, I don't really care 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:11.160 a right, stay over there in Russia, like you're you're, 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.920 you're the stuff you have as old news by now, right, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.880 And I mean through such a wrench in the works 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.560 that they may have to just go back and start 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.840 from scratch. I'm sure they'd just like to get their 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.160 hands on them, though, And even if they're not having 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.400 to start from scratch. It seems to be that the 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.280 capabilities of the n s A are evolving so quick that, Yeah, 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.479 the snapshot that he provided from what April two thirteen 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.360 is you know, now it's more than a year old. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.400 Who knows how much it's changed. So you're right, like 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.680 this is getting less and less relevant as it goes on. Yeah, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.080 what's scary is that you just referred to close to 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.640 two million documents as a snapshot, and that's true, that 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.920 is just a small portion. Yeah, what's going on if 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.160 you're watching the NSA though, UM and a lot of 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.240 people are now more than ever. Uh, they appear to 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:59.200 be continuing to expand and expand expand. Like they've got 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.439 this data center in UM Salt Lake City that we 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.160 just opened, and it, Chuckers is capable of storing data 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.640 in the range of zetta bytes z e t t 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.880 a bytes. How many terabytes is that? I don't know 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.040 how many terabytes it is, but it's one six tillion bytes. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:24.880 Zeros consider this on the low end estimate, So they 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:29.720 can store at least one sex tillion bytes of data 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.920 in this place in Salt Lake City. There are on 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.720 the low end, ten sex tillion stars in the entire 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.000 visible universe. That's a lot of data that they just 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.320 build a house for out in Salt Lake City. So 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.120 they don't appear to be slow in the role at all. No, 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.199 and they in fact hired UM in two thousand eleven, 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.360 two thousand twelve about thirty new employees UM. And this 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.720 article very just sweetly points out if you want to 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.840 go work for the n s A, you don't even 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.160 have to be a computer made year. You can major 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:06.040 in music and history and still engage in cryptanalysis. Right. 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.000 So that's good to know, right, because I mean, if 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.160 you think about it, they sometimes they use more than 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.880 just key codes. Like if somebody wanted decrypt your number 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.920 station key, they would have to be familiar with what 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.120 was it to Kill a mocking Bird? That was that 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.959 the book we use. Yeah, yeah, so you would want 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.240 to hire like a lip major or something like that 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:29.040 to to crack too, crypt analyze something like that. So 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.480 it makes sense. Yeah. Plus they train them that you're 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.240 not expected to come into the n s A as 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.920 a uh securities encryption expert. They will send you to 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.960 school and class right to teach you how to do 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.720 this stuff. That's right, And then you have to meet 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.160 certain requirements. They also have internships for students. That's right, 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.680 and that crazy. Can you imagine just interning at the 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.880 n s A for the summer, Yeah, and not being 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:57.520 killed afterwards. Um. Some of the victories over the years 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.960 with the n s A, like the Cuban Missile crisis, 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:05.800 we should note because of sigint again signals intelligence. Um, 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:10.920 we realized that the Russians were not just installing uh well, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.400 we discovered they were installing nuclear warheads and they just 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.720 weren't vacationing in Cuba. And we also found out from 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.480 sigints from the n s A is that the Russians 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:26.640 had taken over the controls of the Cuban missile system. 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.200 So Russia installed nuclear warheads and had the key had 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.760 Yeah in Cuba pointed right here at the US. But 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.480 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the n s A also 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.199 diffused the whole thing by eavesdropping and finding some sort 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.480 of transmission among I think the Russian Navy that showed 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.920 that Russia was not going to challenge this quarantine the 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.800 US had put around Cuba, which was kind of like 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.839 the new line in the sand that Kennedy had drawn. Yeah, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.320 perhaps avoided nuclear war thanks to them to tell agents. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.800 So they have delivered the goods before. They sure have. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.160 They were under fired after nine eleven for not delivering 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:11.000 the goods Um, and I remember Um famously said, you know, 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.240 we had some communications that there was something big going down. 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.760 They had like thirty of them, and to specifically mentioned 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.280 September eleven, right, but we didn't know what it was 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.120 or where it was. And Um, it's kind of hard 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.400 to throw a dragnet over the country and they didn't 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.920 even know it was going to be in the country supposedly. Yeah, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.680 there's a guy in the UM United States of Secrets 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.120 who was one of the n s A analysts who 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.840 like missed nine eleven, like one of the guys, and 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.920 he is a wreck. Oh I'm sure he's just weeping, 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.720 like sobbing the whole interview. It's really tough to watch 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.960 because guys is gonna go to his grave like every 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:56.680 day just hating himself for it's really Sam that is sad. Um. 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.960 They since nine eleven, a lot of changes have taken place. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.520 Obviously we'll get to the online aspects, but it's just 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.680 a different deal these days. The people that you're looking 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:11.160 for able to hide and plain sight and they're operating. Um. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:16.040 Best case scenario, they're operating in a cell of you know, 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.040 a dozen people that you might be able to track. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.400 Worst case scenario, you've got a single person just acting 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.960 on their own, which is nearly impossible to uh to 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.600 kind of root that person out. You have to wait 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.120 and catch them in the act, which was the case 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:35.720 in Times Square with what was his name, uh Fazl Shazad. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.720 I think that sounds Times Square bomber or would be bomber. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.800 He was a lone wolf. The thing is a lot 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.360 of people criticize the n SAY for even having these 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.320 cases associated with their names because these cases were made 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:54.960 from regular old, um warranted police work, real police Yeah. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.640 So UM, there's a lot of criticism that the n 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.960 s A really hasn't delivered the goods for many many years, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.320 and that um one of the problems is that it's 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.000 drowning in data, like it missed the Boston bombers. Um, 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.520 it missed the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, like there 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:18.560 was these were even overseas targets. People like planning and plotting, well, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.040 when you're tracking every cell phone call made in the 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.320 United States, you're bound to be a wash and data. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.440 And that's that's probably the most salient criticism. Like even 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.440 Glenn Greenwald agrees with you, like that, we don't need 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.440 to do away with the n s A. But the 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.920 problem is if you are doing what General Keith Alexander 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.960 who runs the show there wants, which is collect everything, um, 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.120 then you're a washing data. It's big data with the 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.680 capital being the capital D where you have so much 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.160 data you can't make sense of anything, you can't possibly 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.480 wade through it. And um when when you're in that situation, 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.280 you can easily have something that you need and just 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.360 pass right by. Yeah. So what Greenwalt says is we 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.359 should be targeting people but more effectively, Like, yes, use 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.400 the n s A capabilities, they're awesome, but put them 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.680 to good use. Don't. Don't just cast this wide net 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.360 across the entire world that doesn't do anything. Yeah. One 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.720 of the big controversies that we're going to get into 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.440 right after these messages has to do with UH warrants 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.720 and whether or not you should have to have a 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.760 warrant to UH collect information on someone. So we'll get 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:33.880 to that right after this. So Chuck, We've been talking 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.920 about the n s A, and um, did we even 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.879 say what it stood for? Surely we did, didn't we? 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.200 I don't think we did. Oh, it's the National Security 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.840 Agency and for many years it had a the nickname 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:53.800 no such agency because they were just so secretive. Yes, um. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:59.159 And under under a law that was past as the 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.800 as part of the Church Committee hearings, UM, this thing 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.679 called the FISI Court was set up. And the FISI 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.000 Court was came out of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act FISA, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.840 and it basically said the n s A, to do 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:19.120 its job, can go forth and eaves drop on everybody 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.440 outside of the U S. Please do that's that's your job. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.480 But we understand that some of those people who you 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.439 need to keep an eye on actually come into the 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.600 US while we have a line drawn there. You guys 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.439 need to get a warrant. And since night, as far 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.439 as anybody knew, until about two thousand, two thousand two, Uh, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.399 that's how the NSA operated. If you needed if you 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.160 wanted to uh listen in on someone's phone call inside 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.960 the US, you had to go to this court and 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:54.679 get a warrant. Eleven members and out of thirty four 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:59.680 thousand warrant applications between nineteen seventy all but eleven we're 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:05.120 path through. Yeah, so there was a fis A court, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.560 but they approved ninety nine of warrants, right, So it 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.280 wasn't hard you wanted to. If you wanted to target somebody, 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.320 all you have to do is ask. There was a 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:18.520 rubber stamp just hovering right over the desk. You know. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.120 I wonder what the deal was with those eleven They 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.680 just must have been agreedious. Um the paper boy, right, 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.680 the thing who like over charges. Yeah, like I want 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.680 to spy my paper boy in my milkman. Um. The 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:38.440 thing is is in two thousand two, a lot changed 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.560 as a result of nine eleven. It's part of the 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:46.359 USA Patriot Act and the name of that act. Um. 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.440 As part of the Patriot Act, the n s A 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:54.920 was given broader abilities to eavesdrop within the US. That's right. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:00.359 So basically what happened was that, George Bush said, the 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.479 n s A can monitor international emails and phone calls 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:07.800 if they're generated within the US, as long as they're 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.960 going overseas and they're part of a targeted investigation warrant. 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.800 Without a warrant that's right. That's the key, UM, and 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.120 that happened in two thous two. The press actually knew 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.879 about this. The New York Times sat on it during 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.560 an election. Bushes re election and was roundly criticized once 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.280 they finally released it in two thousand five after he 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.760 was re elected. Um. But the point is that as 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.400 part of the Patriot Act and that this Bush Executive 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.200 Order UM, the n s A was allowed to start 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.960 paying attention to business records that the FEDS could get 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:51.600 from American companies, and they could eavesdrop on domestic initiated calls. Yeah, 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.199 and the business records. That was an expansion there. You 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.560 could always subpoena or get a warrant for business records, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.280 but under the terms UM it expanded to was that 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.359 quote any tangible thing related to an investigation to obtain 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:10.280 foreign intelligence or protect against terrorism. So any tangible thing. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.000 It's about as broad as it gets. You can basically 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.320 say anything, and uh, if it's not, hey, I want 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.640 to spy on my paper boy, then you can get 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.160 that warrant. But if you say I want to spy 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.119 on my paper boy and his name is Akbar, the 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:30.720 FISI Corpus probably be like Okay, here's two take two warrants. Well, yeah, 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.040 I got some stuff on that we'll get too later. Um. So, 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.000 as if that weren't expansive enough, I mean, having to 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.200 go get a warrant and having a nine seven percent 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.359 approval right then not having to get a warrant for 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:44.920 a lot more stuff. If that weren't enough. In two 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:49.760 thou eight, Barack Obama expanded it even further. Yeah, I 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.399 should say, reduced the obstacles between the n s A 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.560 and the information that seeks even further. He said that 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.080 he I think he signed an executive order that's that, Um, 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.680 you can monitor the communications between a U S National 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.679 and a foreign national if the foreign nationals a target 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.840 of an investigation. Before it was like, oh, there's an 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.240 American involved n SSAS out, maybe we'll tip off the 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:17.720 CIA or the FBI or something like that. But the 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.040 n s A is out. That was changed in two 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.480 thousand eight, yeah, and enacted for another five years through 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:29.560 uh this starting in December. Right. Yeah. It also did 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.800 something really really huge. The big one for the two 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:37.000 thousand and eight flies, the expansion, um, is that it 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:41.800 took away the need to get a warrant for bulk 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:47.040 communications collection as long as it was metadata, which meant 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:51.320 now that the n s A could go grab as 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.880 much data as it wanted, phone call records, email records, 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:57.880 all that stuff with the help of the phone companies. 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.560 As long as it didn't content the text of the 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.240 email or it wasn't a voice recording of the phone call, 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.119 they didn't need to get a warrant for everybody's stuff. Now, 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.120 they still were supposed to when they found out that 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:13.320 and they had an American's information, they were supposed to 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:17.040 destroy it unless it was related to a cyber crime, 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:21.400 any crime at all, conceivably was related to some sort 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.480 of security issue or there's some other reason, then they 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:27.440 could keep it for five years, and then that could 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.840