WEBVTT - The Story of Internet Explorer, Part 2 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.920 Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from dot 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:15.040 com Either guys, it's Jonathan Strickland with tech Stuff, and 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.480 we're about to jump right into part two of our 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:23.360 history of Internet Explorer, the full Internet Explorer's story, and 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.440 we even have something to add to that story since 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.000 we recorded this episode. When Nate and I were talking 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:34.400 about Internet Explorer, neither of us knew the name of 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.920 the successor to Internet Explorer. We just knew the code 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.360 name was Project Spartan. But now we know that the 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.960 name is Microsoft Edge that's going to be the successor. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.000 And I just wanted to throw that into the intro 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.120 before we got right back into the discussion. And now 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.480 let's rejoin that talk with Nate Langson from gloom Verb. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:07.520 In August two one, Microsoft would launch Internet Explorer six, 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:16.000 which became a huge debacle. Um it was included in 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.800 copies of Windows XP, one of the most popular operating 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.440 systems of all time. I know people who still would 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.720 prefer to use Windows XP to any of the other 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.840 operating systems that have come out since then. There are 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.920 a lot of legacy systems that depend upon Windows XP, 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.560 and you cannot migrate to a new operating system without 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:40.840 reinventing all these legacy systems that interact with it. Uh there. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.000 There used to be a joke about how people would 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.039 stay on Windows XP, and now it's kind of a 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.880 sad one. So I E six comes out bundled with 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.920 Windows XP. That also means that I E six has 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:55.960 continued to be used long after you would expect people 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.920 to have changed, you know, upgrade to some other version 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:04.720 of Internet Explorer. UM. PC World this is where we 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.680 get the sad part. Called it the least secure software 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.519 on the planet because I had so many vulnerabilities. It 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.240 made the list of twenty five worst tech products of 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.560 all time from PC World. It was number eight and 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.160 number seven was a different Microsoft product, one that I 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.640 did a full episode of tech Stuff about Microsoft Bob 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.760 Bob so it's named by Bill Gates wife. I believe 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.560 we had a whole the episode. If you haven't listened 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.440 to the episode of tech Stuff, I highly recommend you 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.840 go and check that out. Lauren Vogelbaumb was by co 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.720 host on that one, and we had a grand old 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:48.200 time dissecting Bob uh and and it was her first 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:54.160 time ever encountering Bob and boy. I mean the fact 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.959 that I E six ranked higher on the list, then 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:02.280 Bob tells you how bad I E six was, because 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:07.680 Bob was atrocious. So this was another one of those problem. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.359 It was ripe with vulnerabilities that allowed hackers to get 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.760 that same kind of level of access to a computer, 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.280 whatever level the user was logged in at. So if 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.040 you were a giant business and you only allowed your 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:25.200 employees to log in under a lower access level, then 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.400 that was bad but probably manageable. If you were one 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.160 of those businesses that allow employees to log in at 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.640 the admin level, it was catastrophic. And because I E 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.160 six was lumped in with Windows XP, and because Windows 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.600 XP was so popular, it meant that it was a 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:47.400 target rich environment. Now, Nate, you you being a Mac user, 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.320 Are you one of the Mac users who who very 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:56.880 smugly trumpets the fact that Max are largely UM free 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:02.440 from issues of viruses and malware. No, I'm one of 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.440 the people that says that they are. Well, yes I 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.640 am in a way, I am actually completely But what 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.200 I what I don't say is that MAX can't get 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:18.200 viruses or that they are more secure. Um. They are 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.599 in as much as everyone targets Windows and therefore far 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.159 far fewer people are targeting MAX. But on the other hand, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.880 MAX can also be conduits for viruses, so you are 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.920 able to pass on a virus even if you are 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.560 immune to it. You can you can be a carrier 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.640 but not be be affected by it directly. That said, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.039 I don't run antivirus because I don't care about Windows users. 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:49.680 Well why get vaccinated, right, I mean, uh yeah, yeah, 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:51.800 this this, this is a great but this is a 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.480 great point to make, and that again, PCs had so 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.720 much of the market share. I mean, we're still at 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.720 the point where MAX had not really made a big debt. 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.320 It would be it wouldn't be until the mid to 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.880 late two thousand's that we really started seeing the Mac 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.400 take off on a on a true market share level, 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.960 which meant that if you're a hacker and you're designing 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.600 malware and you're trying to hit as many people as 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.400 possible that's your goal, then you go to where the 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.320 people are, and the people were at PCs on Windows 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.440 based machines, specifically Windows XP and Internet Explorer six had 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:30.560 all these vulnerabilities. It was open season for hackers, which 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.880 that's why it made this this list of the words 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.120 tech products, I mean, if if it's a gateway, if 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:42.240 Microsoft had not patch goal of vulnerabilities, it's a huge issue. Now, 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:47.520 Microsoft did start to issue patches very quickly, but it 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:49.719 was still one of those things that became a black 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.200 eye for the company. Uh. In fact, the problem was 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:56.640 so serious that the United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.080 told people, Hey, if you don't have to use as 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:05.040 Internet Explorer, don't use something else. And then the only 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.360 times you should use Internet Explorer is when you have 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.080 no other option, like it's it's something that's only compatible 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:16.120 with Internet Explorer. Um. I've had I've worked at companies 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.000 where the intranet would only be accessible through Internet Explorer. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.920 Other browsers just could not render those pages. Um, which 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.320 could be a very frustrating experience for someone who doesn't 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.400 prefer to use Internet Explorer unless I can't I don't 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.800 have any other option. Nate, have you ever had that 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.960 issue too, where you've had to worked someplace where the 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.120 way a system was designed, you had to use a 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.960 specific type of browser to access it. Um. I'm I 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.440 work at one now, so I probably shouldn't say very much. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:53.800 But it's a very secure internal culprit environment. Sure, And 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.400 and I mean that that's one of the reasons why, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.279 I mean, I still have a version of Internet Explorer 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.680 that runs on my machine because, uh, there there are 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:08.080 certain internal technologies we use that it really only works 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.960 with Internet Exploring. Now once once it's up on the web, 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.760 any browser can see the stuff, but for the internal 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:19.040 purposes we use things that will only work with Internet Explorer. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:24.040 And of course we're also very concerned about security. So 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.400 it's but it's one of those things that you know, 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.040 if if you had built it on Internet Explorer six, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:35.480 this would be a huge concern obviously because of those vulnerabilities. Um, Fortunately, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.880 I think most companies don't rely on that, or they 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.600 are relying on one that has been patched thoroughly so 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.720 that those vulnerabilities are no longer an issue. But it was, 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.760 you know, for someone who doesn't like Grandma, who doesn't 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.240 necessarily know how this stuff works, it's a problem, right. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.760 It's it's not easy to explain to someone who hasn't 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.840 grown up around the world of software and software patches 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.920 that this is an issue at all. It's I mean, 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.440 it's hard enough just to explain that this is not 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:13.000 the Internet, it's a browser. So yeah, so definitely. It 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.320 was a black mark against Microsoft UM And it's funny 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.880 because I looked on Granted, it depends upon what source 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.880 you use, but I looked at one uh resource that 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:31.080 looks at the market share various browsers, and three point 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.760 one of users in China, according to this source, are 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:40.600 still using Internet Explorers six three. It seems like a 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.120 small number, but that means hundreds of thousands of people 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:48.240 are still using Internet Explorers six and that's yeah, I 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:53.320 means incredible. China is an interesting one, and because of 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:58.000 the rempants piracy that has taken place the over the 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.840 last couple of day cades, in particular when it comes 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.599 to computer software, and there are so many old computers 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:11.959 out there, computers that physically can't run more recent operating 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.920 systems that for some machines that may be the limit 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.520 of what they can even install because of how old 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.720 the hardware is. The same in in in in parts 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.600 of India, so that's probably a factor. The other The 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.040 other thing is that there are a lot of banks, 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.920 believe it or not, that have this really old software installed. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.080 I'm not saying that's the case in China particularly, but 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.120 just generally, there are a lot of a lot of 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.480 places and schools too. I mean, and that's the other thing, 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.960 is that when you spend a lot of money and 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:47.120 energy and resources on building an infrastructure and it's using 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:55.360 a particular particular suite of software or a particular operating system, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.200 it's you know, you've created this system that now we 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.120 call legacy system at the time. Of course, it's not 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.400 a legacy. It's just what you built, and you built 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.120 it because you needed something, and this, you know, the 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.160 suite did the stuff you needed. The problem is that, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.040 you know, you don't necessarily have those resources to dedicate 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.440 to reinventing that every time there's a new operating system 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.480 that comes out, especially if you're talking about really big 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:22.040 systems where it would require a massive effort across multiple 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:26.280 locations in order for everyone to stay in communication with 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.240 each other. And that's where you run into these problems. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.560 I mean, if there are no easy solutions, it's very 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.520 easy for us to say, hey, upgrade your operating system 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.079 or upgrade your browser, because on a user to user level, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.760 it's not as big a deal. I mean, it might 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:45.320 require some financial investment. If you're talking about having to 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.120 get a new machine that's capable of running a newer 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.360 version of that software. But ultimately, ultimately it's not as 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.280 big a deal as is telling a an industry or 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.160 even just a particular oller company within that industry, hey 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.800 you need to do this. It's a much larger effort 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.319 on that their part. So as flippant as I'm being, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.360 I do realize that, you know, it's not so simple 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.960 as oh, we need to we need to install this 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.080 new program. It's you know, sometimes it's not the new browser. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:24.000 Like you said, Nate could require uh, more advanced hardware 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.160 or a more advanced operating system. Yeah, all right, So 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.720 that was two thousand one. Now we're going to skip 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:36.080 ahead to two thousand four because there were no updates 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.920 in that time. But on November nine, two four, a 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.599 big competitor to Internet Explorer would launch the Mozilla foundations 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:49.680 Firefox one point Oh goes live now. Firefox was the 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:55.160 first real challenger to the dominance of Internet Explorer, uh, 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.640 to to really you know, capture a lot of people's attention. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.880 Before there had and devotees of other browsers, but they 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.959 were pretty small audiences. Firefox was one that actually threatened 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:12.360 to take some real uh chunks out of Microsoft and 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.080 part of that was because there was still this ongoing 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.000 issue with Internet Explorer six and the security vulnerabilities that 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.559 had had such a you know, I had a pretty 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.400 bad reputation. Meanwhile, you might say, well, why why didn't 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:29.520 Microsoft come out with a new version, Well, until Firefox 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.360 came out, there wasn't really a need for it, right, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.239 I mean, there were no If you don't have a competitor, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.600 then you don't have a lot of incentive to improve 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.440 your product. That's one of the problems, one of the reasons, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.520 one of the big reasons you don't want any monopolies 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.560 out there, because you would rather have competition that drives 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.679 the various entities to continue to innovate and invest in 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.880 their technology so that you ultimately get better stuff out 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.199 of it. If there are no competitors, then you got 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.080 to just hope that the entities are motivated enough to 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.240 continue that innovation and investment, which is not always the case, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.600 and it wasn't in this one. So October two thousand 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:12.240 six we see Microsoft launched Internet Explorer seven because Firefox 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.920 was starting to eat at Microsoft's heels. It was starting 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.800 to take up some of that market share, and Microsoft 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.679 suddenly realized, hey, we might have a problem here. We 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.440 might need to to start really looking at innovating in 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.680 this space again, because we're not the only player in 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:34.640 town anymore. So this was a five year you know, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.800 absence of updates, and then we finally get one in 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:42.520 two thousand six. Um. So Internet Explore seven was also 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.640 the first time they changed the name, because the previous 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:51.000 editions of Internet Explorer were all called Microsoft Internet Explorer whatever. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.400 This time they were called Windows Internet Explorer whatever. So 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:01.640 Windows Internet Explorer seven u interesting because of the settlement 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.480 with the United States Department of Justice earlier about how 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:09.280 they didn't really want to give the indication that Windows 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.040 and Internet Explorer were so tightly integrated. But after the 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.600 settlement of that case, I guess they were. Microsoft was 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.520 looking at it saying, look, if you if you use 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.360 the Windows environment, this is the browser you want. I 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.200 guess that was their marketing push, I suppose, And it 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.760 became the bundled browser for a much maligned piece of software, 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:37.040 Windows Vista. I think Windows Vista did more for Macintosh 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:43.000 sales than Apple ever did. Was it wasn't It wasn't 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.680 great to begin with. It was basically all right by 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.760 the end, but yeah, it was. It was one of 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.360 those that did require patches to make it to the 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.480 point where people gave it that kind of damning praise. Right, well, 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.240 it was all right by the end, it was okay, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:00.400 but when it came out, it was not okay. Uh. 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.160 There were a lot of issues. I mean, I remember 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.880 all the different permissions windows that would pop up whenever 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.880 you wanted to do anything, and windows and staff and 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:13.680 it was almost like Microsoft had overreacted to the problems 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.800 it had experienced previously with products like Internet Explorer six, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.640 where I said, well, we want to make sure that 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.120 we are being really uh concerned with security and safety. 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.200 So now you're going to have to go through five 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.240 permissions pages whenever you want to run anything on your machine, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:36.000 every time you want to run it. So this was maligned, 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.080 probably justifiably when it first came out, but then, like 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.960 like we said, it got better with patches, although it 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.720 was too little, too late at that point, I think. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:51.280 And essentially you had all these different people and companies, 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.160 school systems, everything saying you know what, we're gonna stick 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.000 with Windows XP because even though this operating system is 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.400 the new one, it breaks everything. So I'm going to 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.920 use this older operating system. Uh. And I can say 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.280 like in my career, we went from Windows XP to 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.320 Windows seven. We did not. We did not transition to Vista. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.280 I went Windows XP to Mac. Um not particularly because 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.040 of Vista, to be honest, Um, but I but but 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:24.720 I think that was the turning point for a lot 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.880 of people. It was either ignore Vista and then moved 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.360 to seven, or ignore Vista and moved to the Mac. Yeah. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.160 I think, you know, and I think even you know, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.480 looking at at some of the other operating systems out there, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.000 things like Lenox, I mean, you know, I don't think well, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.680 Lennox has its own like devotees who are all the 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.080 developers who who love to work with that operating system 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.040 and help make it better. And it's almost like a 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.160 crowdsourced OS. Uh. But they you know, I think things 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.920 like Vista definitely help fuel that kind of passion because 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.240 you look at what is the product of a corporation 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.960 saying here's what we think at operating system should be 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.840 versus uh, something like uh Mac, which you know, Apple 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.040 has done a great job at positioning themselves as we 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:18.879 know that you think you know what you want, but 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.119 we're telling you what you want and you're gonna love it, 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.840 and it works because it's designed so well. Uh. And 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.960 then you have the Linux approach, whereas we know what 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.520 we want because we're the ones making it. Yes, well 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.639 there is that as well. And and and Linux is 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.440 so infinitely flexible from the you know, if you want 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.240 to build your own operating system, you know version of 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.880 Linux once that was designed in the style of an 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.280 anime series called Serial Experiments Lane, which is a very 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.640 weird techie anime if you want to check that out. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.919 But I wanted to point something out that we actually 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.080 didn't discuss and put in show notes here, but it 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.760 just occurred to me as we've been talking that there 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:01.560 was a there was a it's parallel chain in computer 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.920 usage at this point in the Internet Explorer lifestyle, which 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.840 was the introducing and introduction and success of the netbook 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:15.240 that did the opposite of what Microsoft would have wanted 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.040 with Vista, which required, you know, more of a high powered, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.080 high spect machine. It was much visually it was much 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.600 more visually rich. Vista was that is versus XP and 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.119 then the netbook came out and became this giant pre 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.960 iPad pre tablet craze of hundred dollar little portable notebooks 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.760 that needed to run really low power old stuff. So 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.639 they ran XP and they ran I six or they 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.040 ran Linux of course, um, you know, and I think 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.400 that that that was such a popular choice of machine 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.520 for admittedly only maybe a couple of years, but I 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.400 think it may have made a difference at the whole 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:57.000 XP thing. And definitely once two seven rolls around, you 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.600 had Apple introduced the iPhone, and that really changed the 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.320 game because suddenly you had well, at least here in 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.439 the United States, I mean here in the US. This 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.040 is where Nate can can kind of chuckle, because in 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.520 the US the smartphone was adopted very late on the 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.640 consumer side, Whereas you know, in Europe you had some 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.800 some smartphones that had traction before the iPhone came out. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.040 Here in the US, the iPhone might as well have 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.560 been the first smartphone ever. The only people who had 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.159 any other type of smartphone were executives who had blackberries 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.600 here in the US. That was very kind of you. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.560 It was very kind of you to to suggest that 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.119 we were far ahead of the game. I think really 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:36.960 that the sort of we're in the realms of the 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.720 sort of Nokia Communicate a sort of thing, and they 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.640 weren't they weren't particularly smart, but they were more feature 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.200 rich definitely than in some of the U S phones 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.520 because because no kid didn't do anything really in North 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.280 America at the time, right, yeah, here, if you had 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.439 a phone that could browse the web via text like 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.719 it was just a text based browser, then you were 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.600 ahead of the game. And then but then the iPhone 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.399 comes out, and uh, suddenly you have a new way 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:09.919 of viewing the web, which would get improved considerably with 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.959 future generations of the iPhone, and then with competitors like 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.159 the Android phone, and ultimately with Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.199 and then just Windows for mobile devices. Um. But you know, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.720 that really change the game big time, to the point 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.840 where now if you look at market share of what's 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:32.120 being used to browse the web, the mobile devices are 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.680 killing it. And so you see things like iOS is 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.520 a huge player in market share for web browsers if 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.719 you're if you include mobile devices, if you look at 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.040 just desktops, then Internet Explorer is still a large a 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.320 large player, especially once you factor in all the different 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.880 versions of Internet Explorer. They're still in use. But two 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.760 thousand seven ends up being a big year because we 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.760 start seeing mobile become a true competitor, or at least 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.800 a a potential competitor in the web browsing space. March 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:09.160 two thousand nine would be when Microsoft launched Internet Explorer eight, 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.119 which was the first browser to pass the Acid too test. 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.119 Did not pass the acid three tests, but it passed 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.600 the acid to test, which was that's a test designed 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.480 to check a browser's ability to render a web page 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.840 based upon the intended design of that page. This goes 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:26.600 back to what I was saying before, where you just 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.080 painstakingly create a web page and you can't wait for 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.600 someone to see it. I mean by by can't wait, 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.200 I mean if you if you could go back and 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:40.200 visit the web pages of the mid nineties, I guarantee 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.600 you that more than eighty percent of them would have 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.680 a counter somewhere on that web page that would tell 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.320 you what number you were to visit that web page. Uh. 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.840 Those were ubiquitous back in the day. Do you remember 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.639 those where you'll be like, oh, look, I I was 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.199 the hundred and third thousand person to visit this website. 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.240 I remember installing one of mine and just thinking like, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.840 why do I do this? I can like, it's been 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:09.600 three months and I can still count the number of 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.520 people who have visited my website on two hands. But 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.760 you know, that was one of those things where again, 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:18.960 you know, you put this care into it, and you 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:22.480 really wanted to make sure that all the browsers were 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.920 going to render it properly. Uh. And it was very 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.040 important for Microsoft at the time because they were no 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:32.760 longer like no one version of Internet Explorer was now 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:37.399 the dominant one because Firefox had done so well. So 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.360 if you're the dominant player, then sure you could essentially 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.760 define how web pages should look. Your browser is the 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.800 one that people should be designing for because you're the 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.640 one that most people are using, and anyone who's using 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.840 a different web browser is going to have a potentially, 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.480 at any rate, a less than ideal experience. But who 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.960 cares because you're the one who's the biggest player in town. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.119 When you're no longer the biggest player in town or 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.000 there are viable competitors out there, you have to start 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.720 rethinking that strategy. So Microsoft did a good thing here 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:11.840 and building a web browser that was going to be 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:16.320 more true to the designs of the web page administrators 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.960 than what they had previously been doing and also benefited 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.520 those of us who actually used Firefox or some other 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.840 browser at that time, So that was that was good 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:30.200 go ahead. It's an interesting period because all this time, 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:34.800 all this discussion, Opera was chugging along in the background 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.159 doing its thing. And just as we've been talking, I 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:40.200 just download and installed Uper on my map because I 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:41.720 just wanted to see what it looks like these days. 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:45.200 Is based on Chromium UM, like like Google Chrome is. 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:49.000 And you know, Opera has always been this underdog. It's 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:52.240 just never done very well at market share wise, but 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.320 it's always had this incredibly loyal fan base and does 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.480 really innovative things on the mobile side, and always has. 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.520 And I remember and about two thousand and seven, I 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:04.080 wrote an article of the c net saying Opera should 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.879 stop making desktop browsers and just focus on mobile as 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.159 its future. And I had one person who said that 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.040 I should throw myself off the top of the c 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:15.400 NET building for saying something so heinous against the beloved 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.760