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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from dot

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Speaker 1: com Either guys, it's Jonathan Strickland with tech Stuff, and

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Speaker 1: we're about to jump right into part two of our

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Speaker 1: history of Internet Explorer, the full Internet Explorer's story, and

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Speaker 1: we even have something to add to that story since

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Speaker 1: we recorded this episode. When Nate and I were talking

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Speaker 1: about Internet Explorer, neither of us knew the name of

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Speaker 1: the successor to Internet Explorer. We just knew the code

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Speaker 1: name was Project Spartan. But now we know that the

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Speaker 1: name is Microsoft Edge that's going to be the successor.

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Speaker 1: And I just wanted to throw that into the intro

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Speaker 1: before we got right back into the discussion. And now

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Speaker 1: let's rejoin that talk with Nate Langson from gloom Verb.

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Speaker 1: In August two one, Microsoft would launch Internet Explorer six,

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Speaker 1: which became a huge debacle. Um it was included in

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Speaker 1: copies of Windows XP, one of the most popular operating

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Speaker 1: systems of all time. I know people who still would

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Speaker 1: prefer to use Windows XP to any of the other

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Speaker 1: operating systems that have come out since then. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of legacy systems that depend upon Windows XP,

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Speaker 1: and you cannot migrate to a new operating system without

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Speaker 1: reinventing all these legacy systems that interact with it. Uh there.

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Speaker 1: There used to be a joke about how people would

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Speaker 1: stay on Windows XP, and now it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: sad one. So I E six comes out bundled with

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Speaker 1: Windows XP. That also means that I E six has

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Speaker 1: continued to be used long after you would expect people

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Speaker 1: to have changed, you know, upgrade to some other version

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Speaker 1: of Internet Explorer. UM. PC World this is where we

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Speaker 1: get the sad part. Called it the least secure software

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Speaker 1: on the planet because I had so many vulnerabilities. It

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Speaker 1: made the list of twenty five worst tech products of

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Speaker 1: all time from PC World. It was number eight and

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Speaker 1: number seven was a different Microsoft product, one that I

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Speaker 1: did a full episode of tech Stuff about Microsoft Bob

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Speaker 1: Bob so it's named by Bill Gates wife. I believe

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Speaker 1: we had a whole the episode. If you haven't listened

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Speaker 1: to the episode of tech Stuff, I highly recommend you

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Speaker 1: go and check that out. Lauren Vogelbaumb was by co

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Speaker 1: host on that one, and we had a grand old

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Speaker 1: time dissecting Bob uh and and it was her first

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Speaker 1: time ever encountering Bob and boy. I mean the fact

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Speaker 1: that I E six ranked higher on the list, then

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Speaker 1: Bob tells you how bad I E six was, because

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Speaker 1: Bob was atrocious. So this was another one of those problem.

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Speaker 1: It was ripe with vulnerabilities that allowed hackers to get

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Speaker 1: that same kind of level of access to a computer,

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Speaker 1: whatever level the user was logged in at. So if

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Speaker 1: you were a giant business and you only allowed your

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Speaker 1: employees to log in under a lower access level, then

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Speaker 1: that was bad but probably manageable. If you were one

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Speaker 1: of those businesses that allow employees to log in at

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Speaker 1: the admin level, it was catastrophic. And because I E

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Speaker 1: six was lumped in with Windows XP, and because Windows

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Speaker 1: XP was so popular, it meant that it was a

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Speaker 1: target rich environment. Now, Nate, you you being a Mac user,

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Speaker 1: Are you one of the Mac users who who very

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Speaker 1: smugly trumpets the fact that Max are largely UM free

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Speaker 1: from issues of viruses and malware. No, I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the people that says that they are. Well, yes I

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Speaker 1: am in a way, I am actually completely But what

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Speaker 1: I what I don't say is that MAX can't get

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Speaker 1: viruses or that they are more secure. Um. They are

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Speaker 1: in as much as everyone targets Windows and therefore far

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Speaker 1: far fewer people are targeting MAX. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: MAX can also be conduits for viruses, so you are

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Speaker 1: able to pass on a virus even if you are

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Speaker 1: immune to it. You can you can be a carrier

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Speaker 1: but not be be affected by it directly. That said,

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Speaker 1: I don't run antivirus because I don't care about Windows users.

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Speaker 1: Well why get vaccinated, right, I mean, uh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this, this is a great but this is a

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Speaker 1: great point to make, and that again, PCs had so

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Speaker 1: much of the market share. I mean, we're still at

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Speaker 1: the point where MAX had not really made a big debt.

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Speaker 1: It would be it wouldn't be until the mid to

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Speaker 1: late two thousand's that we really started seeing the Mac

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Speaker 1: take off on a on a true market share level,

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Speaker 1: which meant that if you're a hacker and you're designing

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Speaker 1: malware and you're trying to hit as many people as

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Speaker 1: possible that's your goal, then you go to where the

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Speaker 1: people are, and the people were at PCs on Windows

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Speaker 1: based machines, specifically Windows XP and Internet Explorer six had

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Speaker 1: all these vulnerabilities. It was open season for hackers, which

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Speaker 1: that's why it made this this list of the words

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Speaker 1: tech products, I mean, if if it's a gateway, if

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Speaker 1: Microsoft had not patch goal of vulnerabilities, it's a huge issue. Now,

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Speaker 1: Microsoft did start to issue patches very quickly, but it

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Speaker 1: was still one of those things that became a black

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Speaker 1: eye for the company. Uh. In fact, the problem was

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Speaker 1: so serious that the United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team

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Speaker 1: told people, Hey, if you don't have to use as

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Speaker 1: Internet Explorer, don't use something else. And then the only

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Speaker 1: times you should use Internet Explorer is when you have

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Speaker 1: no other option, like it's it's something that's only compatible

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Speaker 1: with Internet Explorer. Um. I've had I've worked at companies

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Speaker 1: where the intranet would only be accessible through Internet Explorer.

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Speaker 1: Other browsers just could not render those pages. Um, which

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Speaker 1: could be a very frustrating experience for someone who doesn't

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Speaker 1: prefer to use Internet Explorer unless I can't I don't

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Speaker 1: have any other option. Nate, have you ever had that

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Speaker 1: issue too, where you've had to worked someplace where the

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Speaker 1: way a system was designed, you had to use a

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Speaker 1: specific type of browser to access it. Um. I'm I

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Speaker 1: work at one now, so I probably shouldn't say very much.

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Speaker 1: But it's a very secure internal culprit environment. Sure, And

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Speaker 1: and I mean that that's one of the reasons why,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I still have a version of Internet Explorer

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Speaker 1: that runs on my machine because, uh, there there are

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Speaker 1: certain internal technologies we use that it really only works

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Speaker 1: with Internet Exploring. Now once once it's up on the web,

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Speaker 1: any browser can see the stuff, but for the internal

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Speaker 1: purposes we use things that will only work with Internet Explorer.

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Speaker 1: And of course we're also very concerned about security. So

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Speaker 1: it's but it's one of those things that you know,

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Speaker 1: if if you had built it on Internet Explorer six,

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Speaker 1: this would be a huge concern obviously because of those vulnerabilities. Um, Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: I think most companies don't rely on that, or they

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Speaker 1: are relying on one that has been patched thoroughly so

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Speaker 1: that those vulnerabilities are no longer an issue. But it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, for someone who doesn't like Grandma, who doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily know how this stuff works, it's a problem, right.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not easy to explain to someone who hasn't

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Speaker 1: grown up around the world of software and software patches

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Speaker 1: that this is an issue at all. It's I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's hard enough just to explain that this is not

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Speaker 1: the Internet, it's a browser. So yeah, so definitely. It

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Speaker 1: was a black mark against Microsoft UM And it's funny

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Speaker 1: because I looked on Granted, it depends upon what source

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Speaker 1: you use, but I looked at one uh resource that

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Speaker 1: looks at the market share various browsers, and three point

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Speaker 1: one of users in China, according to this source, are

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Speaker 1: still using Internet Explorers six three. It seems like a

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Speaker 1: small number, but that means hundreds of thousands of people

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Speaker 1: are still using Internet Explorers six and that's yeah, I

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Speaker 1: means incredible. China is an interesting one, and because of

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Speaker 1: the rempants piracy that has taken place the over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of day cades, in particular when it comes

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Speaker 1: to computer software, and there are so many old computers

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Speaker 1: out there, computers that physically can't run more recent operating

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Speaker 1: systems that for some machines that may be the limit

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Speaker 1: of what they can even install because of how old

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Speaker 1: the hardware is. The same in in in in parts

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Speaker 1: of India, so that's probably a factor. The other The

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Speaker 1: other thing is that there are a lot of banks,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, that have this really old software installed.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's the case in China particularly, but

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Speaker 1: just generally, there are a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: places and schools too. I mean, and that's the other thing,

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Speaker 1: is that when you spend a lot of money and

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Speaker 1: energy and resources on building an infrastructure and it's using

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Speaker 1: a particular particular suite of software or a particular operating system,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, you've created this system that now we

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Speaker 1: call legacy system at the time. Of course, it's not

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Speaker 1: a legacy. It's just what you built, and you built

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Speaker 1: it because you needed something, and this, you know, the

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Speaker 1: suite did the stuff you needed. The problem is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't necessarily have those resources to dedicate

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Speaker 1: to reinventing that every time there's a new operating system

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Speaker 1: that comes out, especially if you're talking about really big

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Speaker 1: systems where it would require a massive effort across multiple

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Speaker 1: locations in order for everyone to stay in communication with

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Speaker 1: each other. And that's where you run into these problems.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if there are no easy solutions, it's very

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Speaker 1: easy for us to say, hey, upgrade your operating system

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Speaker 1: or upgrade your browser, because on a user to user level,

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Speaker 1: it's not as big a deal. I mean, it might

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Speaker 1: require some financial investment. If you're talking about having to

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Speaker 1: get a new machine that's capable of running a newer

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Speaker 1: version of that software. But ultimately, ultimately it's not as

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Speaker 1: big a deal as is telling a an industry or

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Speaker 1: even just a particular oller company within that industry, hey

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Speaker 1: you need to do this. It's a much larger effort

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Speaker 1: on that their part. So as flippant as I'm being,

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Speaker 1: I do realize that, you know, it's not so simple

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Speaker 1: as oh, we need to we need to install this

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Speaker 1: new program. It's you know, sometimes it's not the new browser.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, Nate could require uh, more advanced hardware

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Speaker 1: or a more advanced operating system. Yeah, all right, So

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Speaker 1: that was two thousand one. Now we're going to skip

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Speaker 1: ahead to two thousand four because there were no updates

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Speaker 1: in that time. But on November nine, two four, a

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Speaker 1: big competitor to Internet Explorer would launch the Mozilla foundations

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Speaker 1: Firefox one point Oh goes live now. Firefox was the

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Speaker 1: first real challenger to the dominance of Internet Explorer, uh,

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Speaker 1: to to really you know, capture a lot of people's attention.

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Speaker 1: Before there had and devotees of other browsers, but they

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Speaker 1: were pretty small audiences. Firefox was one that actually threatened

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Speaker 1: to take some real uh chunks out of Microsoft and

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Speaker 1: part of that was because there was still this ongoing

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Speaker 1: issue with Internet Explorer six and the security vulnerabilities that

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Speaker 1: had had such a you know, I had a pretty

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Speaker 1: bad reputation. Meanwhile, you might say, well, why why didn't

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Speaker 1: Microsoft come out with a new version, Well, until Firefox

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Speaker 1: came out, there wasn't really a need for it, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there were no If you don't have a competitor,

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Speaker 1: then you don't have a lot of incentive to improve

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Speaker 1: your product. That's one of the problems, one of the reasons,

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Speaker 1: one of the big reasons you don't want any monopolies

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Speaker 1: out there, because you would rather have competition that drives

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Speaker 1: the various entities to continue to innovate and invest in

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Speaker 1: their technology so that you ultimately get better stuff out

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Speaker 1: of it. If there are no competitors, then you got

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Speaker 1: to just hope that the entities are motivated enough to

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Speaker 1: continue that innovation and investment, which is not always the case,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't in this one. So October two thousand

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Speaker 1: six we see Microsoft launched Internet Explorer seven because Firefox

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Speaker 1: was starting to eat at Microsoft's heels. It was starting

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Speaker 1: to take up some of that market share, and Microsoft

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Speaker 1: suddenly realized, hey, we might have a problem here. We

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Speaker 1: might need to to start really looking at innovating in

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Speaker 1: this space again, because we're not the only player in

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Speaker 1: town anymore. So this was a five year you know,

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Speaker 1: absence of updates, and then we finally get one in

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Speaker 1: two thousand six. Um. So Internet Explore seven was also

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Speaker 1: the first time they changed the name, because the previous

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Speaker 1: editions of Internet Explorer were all called Microsoft Internet Explorer whatever.

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Speaker 1: This time they were called Windows Internet Explorer whatever. So

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Speaker 1: Windows Internet Explorer seven u interesting because of the settlement

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Speaker 1: with the United States Department of Justice earlier about how

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Speaker 1: they didn't really want to give the indication that Windows

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Speaker 1: and Internet Explorer were so tightly integrated. But after the

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Speaker 1: settlement of that case, I guess they were. Microsoft was

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Speaker 1: looking at it saying, look, if you if you use

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Speaker 1: the Windows environment, this is the browser you want. I

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Speaker 1: guess that was their marketing push, I suppose, And it

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Speaker 1: became the bundled browser for a much maligned piece of software,

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Speaker 1: Windows Vista. I think Windows Vista did more for Macintosh

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Speaker 1: sales than Apple ever did. Was it wasn't It wasn't

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Speaker 1: great to begin with. It was basically all right by

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Speaker 1: the end, but yeah, it was. It was one of

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Speaker 1: those that did require patches to make it to the

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Speaker 1: point where people gave it that kind of damning praise. Right, well,

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Speaker 1: it was all right by the end, it was okay,

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Speaker 1: but when it came out, it was not okay. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of issues. I mean, I remember

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Speaker 1: all the different permissions windows that would pop up whenever

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Speaker 1: you wanted to do anything, and windows and staff and

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Speaker 1: it was almost like Microsoft had overreacted to the problems

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Speaker 1: it had experienced previously with products like Internet Explorer six,

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Speaker 1: where I said, well, we want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we are being really uh concerned with security and safety.

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Speaker 1: So now you're going to have to go through five

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Speaker 1: permissions pages whenever you want to run anything on your machine,

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Speaker 1: every time you want to run it. So this was maligned,

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Speaker 1: probably justifiably when it first came out, but then, like

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Speaker 1: like we said, it got better with patches, although it

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Speaker 1: was too little, too late at that point, I think.

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Speaker 1: And essentially you had all these different people and companies,

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Speaker 1: school systems, everything saying you know what, we're gonna stick

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Speaker 1: with Windows XP because even though this operating system is

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Speaker 1: the new one, it breaks everything. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: use this older operating system. Uh. And I can say

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Speaker 1: like in my career, we went from Windows XP to

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Speaker 1: Windows seven. We did not. We did not transition to Vista.

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Speaker 1: I went Windows XP to Mac. Um not particularly because

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Speaker 1: of Vista, to be honest, Um, but I but but

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Speaker 1: I think that was the turning point for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. It was either ignore Vista and then moved

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Speaker 1: to seven, or ignore Vista and moved to the Mac. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, and I think even you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at at some of the other operating systems out there,

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Speaker 1: things like Lenox, I mean, you know, I don't think well,

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Speaker 1: Lennox has its own like devotees who are all the

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Speaker 1: developers who who love to work with that operating system

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Speaker 1: and help make it better. And it's almost like a

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Speaker 1: crowdsourced OS. Uh. But they you know, I think things

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Speaker 1: like Vista definitely help fuel that kind of passion because

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Speaker 1: you look at what is the product of a corporation

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Speaker 1: saying here's what we think at operating system should be

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Speaker 1: versus uh, something like uh Mac, which you know, Apple

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Speaker 1: has done a great job at positioning themselves as we

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Speaker 1: know that you think you know what you want, but

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Speaker 1: we're telling you what you want and you're gonna love it,

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Speaker 1: and it works because it's designed so well. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: then you have the Linux approach, whereas we know what

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Speaker 1: we want because we're the ones making it. Yes, well

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Speaker 1: there is that as well. And and and Linux is

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Speaker 1: so infinitely flexible from the you know, if you want

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Speaker 1: to build your own operating system, you know version of

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Speaker 1: Linux once that was designed in the style of an

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Speaker 1: anime series called Serial Experiments Lane, which is a very

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Speaker 1: weird techie anime if you want to check that out.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to point something out that we actually

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Speaker 1: didn't discuss and put in show notes here, but it

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Speaker 1: just occurred to me as we've been talking that there

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Speaker 1: was a there was a it's parallel chain in computer

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Speaker 1: usage at this point in the Internet Explorer lifestyle, which

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Speaker 1: was the introducing and introduction and success of the netbook

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Speaker 1: that did the opposite of what Microsoft would have wanted

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Speaker 1: with Vista, which required, you know, more of a high powered,

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Speaker 1: high spect machine. It was much visually it was much

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Speaker 1: more visually rich. Vista was that is versus XP and

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Speaker 1: then the netbook came out and became this giant pre

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Speaker 1: iPad pre tablet craze of hundred dollar little portable notebooks

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Speaker 1: that needed to run really low power old stuff. So

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Speaker 1: they ran XP and they ran I six or they

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Speaker 1: ran Linux of course, um, you know, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that that was such a popular choice of machine

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Speaker 1: for admittedly only maybe a couple of years, but I

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Speaker 1: think it may have made a difference at the whole

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Speaker 1: XP thing. And definitely once two seven rolls around, you

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Speaker 1: had Apple introduced the iPhone, and that really changed the

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Speaker 1: game because suddenly you had well, at least here in

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Speaker 1: the United States, I mean here in the US. This

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Speaker 1: is where Nate can can kind of chuckle, because in

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Speaker 1: the US the smartphone was adopted very late on the

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Speaker 1: consumer side, Whereas you know, in Europe you had some

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Speaker 1: some smartphones that had traction before the iPhone came out.

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Speaker 1: Here in the US, the iPhone might as well have

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Speaker 1: been the first smartphone ever. The only people who had

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Speaker 1: any other type of smartphone were executives who had blackberries

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Speaker 1: here in the US. That was very kind of you.

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Speaker 1: It was very kind of you to to suggest that

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Speaker 1: we were far ahead of the game. I think really

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Speaker 1: that the sort of we're in the realms of the

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Speaker 1: sort of Nokia Communicate a sort of thing, and they

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Speaker 1: weren't they weren't particularly smart, but they were more feature

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Speaker 1: rich definitely than in some of the U S phones

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Speaker 1: because because no kid didn't do anything really in North

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Speaker 1: America at the time, right, yeah, here, if you had

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Speaker 1: a phone that could browse the web via text like

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Speaker 1: it was just a text based browser, then you were

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Speaker 1: ahead of the game. And then but then the iPhone

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Speaker 1: comes out, and uh, suddenly you have a new way

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Speaker 1: of viewing the web, which would get improved considerably with

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Speaker 1: future generations of the iPhone, and then with competitors like

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Speaker 1: the Android phone, and ultimately with Windows Mobile, Windows Phone

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Speaker 1: and then just Windows for mobile devices. Um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: that really change the game big time, to the point

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Speaker 1: where now if you look at market share of what's

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Speaker 1: being used to browse the web, the mobile devices are

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Speaker 1: killing it. And so you see things like iOS is

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Speaker 1: a huge player in market share for web browsers if

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Speaker 1: you're if you include mobile devices, if you look at

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Speaker 1: just desktops, then Internet Explorer is still a large a

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Speaker 1: large player, especially once you factor in all the different

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Speaker 1: versions of Internet Explorer. They're still in use. But two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven ends up being a big year because we

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Speaker 1: start seeing mobile become a true competitor, or at least

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Speaker 1: a a potential competitor in the web browsing space. March

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine would be when Microsoft launched Internet Explorer eight,

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Speaker 1: which was the first browser to pass the Acid too test.

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Speaker 1: Did not pass the acid three tests, but it passed

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Speaker 1: the acid to test, which was that's a test designed

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Speaker 1: to check a browser's ability to render a web page

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Speaker 1: based upon the intended design of that page. This goes

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Speaker 1: back to what I was saying before, where you just

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Speaker 1: painstakingly create a web page and you can't wait for

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Speaker 1: someone to see it. I mean by by can't wait,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you if you could go back and

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Speaker 1: visit the web pages of the mid nineties, I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you that more than eighty percent of them would have

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Speaker 1: a counter somewhere on that web page that would tell

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Speaker 1: you what number you were to visit that web page. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Those were ubiquitous back in the day. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: those where you'll be like, oh, look, I I was

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Speaker 1: the hundred and third thousand person to visit this website.

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Speaker 1: I remember installing one of mine and just thinking like,

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Speaker 1: why do I do this? I can like, it's been

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Speaker 1: three months and I can still count the number of

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Speaker 1: people who have visited my website on two hands. But

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Speaker 1: you know, that was one of those things where again,

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Speaker 1: you know, you put this care into it, and you

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Speaker 1: really wanted to make sure that all the browsers were

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Speaker 1: going to render it properly. Uh. And it was very

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Speaker 1: important for Microsoft at the time because they were no

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Speaker 1: longer like no one version of Internet Explorer was now

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Speaker 1: the dominant one because Firefox had done so well. So

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Speaker 1: if you're the dominant player, then sure you could essentially

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Speaker 1: define how web pages should look. Your browser is the

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Speaker 1: one that people should be designing for because you're the

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Speaker 1: one that most people are using, and anyone who's using

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Speaker 1: a different web browser is going to have a potentially,

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Speaker 1: at any rate, a less than ideal experience. But who

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Speaker 1: cares because you're the one who's the biggest player in town.

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Speaker 1: When you're no longer the biggest player in town or

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Speaker 1: there are viable competitors out there, you have to start

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Speaker 1: rethinking that strategy. So Microsoft did a good thing here

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Speaker 1: and building a web browser that was going to be

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Speaker 1: more true to the designs of the web page administrators

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Speaker 1: than what they had previously been doing and also benefited

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Speaker 1: those of us who actually used Firefox or some other

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Speaker 1: browser at that time, So that was that was good

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Speaker 1: go ahead. It's an interesting period because all this time,

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Speaker 1: all this discussion, Opera was chugging along in the background

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Speaker 1: doing its thing. And just as we've been talking, I

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Speaker 1: just download and installed Uper on my map because I

389
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Speaker 1: just wanted to see what it looks like these days.

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Speaker 1: Is based on Chromium UM, like like Google Chrome is.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Opera has always been this underdog. It's

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Speaker 1: just never done very well at market share wise, but

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Speaker 1: it's always had this incredibly loyal fan base and does

394
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Speaker 1: really innovative things on the mobile side, and always has.

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Speaker 1: And I remember and about two thousand and seven, I

396
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Speaker 1: wrote an article of the c net saying Opera should

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Speaker 1: stop making desktop browsers and just focus on mobile as

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Speaker 1: its future. And I had one person who said that

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Speaker 1: I should throw myself off the top of the c

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Speaker 1: NET building for saying something so heinous against the beloved

401
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Speaker 1: Opera browser. Right, And I still, you know, nearly ten

402
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Speaker 1: years on, I stand by that they should focus on

403
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Speaker 1: mobile um and I hope that person revisits my article

404
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: from seven and says, oh, yes, you were right. Well,

405
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's very forward thinking because, as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: you know, mobile browsing has become so important now that

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00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: that's where everybody is looking. I mean, you know, not

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Speaker 1: that desktop browsing has gone away, or that there aren't

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Speaker 1: other platforms. I mean, heck, I sometimes I browse the

410
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Speaker 1: web very rarely, but sometimes I browse the web on

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Speaker 1: my xbox so that I can watch certain content that

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Speaker 1: I couldn't otherwise, or that I, um you know, might

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Speaker 1: want to have a podcast on in the background, and

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00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: that's the easy, the best way for me to play it.

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00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: Um so. But the mobile certainly is is at least

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Speaker 1: as important, if not more important, than desktop browsing is

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Speaker 1: these days. So everyone really needed to be looking at mobile.

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Speaker 1: I think you were really just giving some valuable advice, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I mean I really I was trolling for page views mostly,

420
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Speaker 1: but but it was based on it was based on

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Speaker 1: real opinion and a fact. I believe, you know, we

422
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Speaker 1: we've all engaged in some clickbait at some point or another.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, uh so. Internet Explorer eight is

424
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Speaker 1: currently the second most popular version of Internet Explorer as

425
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Speaker 1: far as market share goes. Keep in mind, we're up

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Speaker 1: to eleven now, and in fact, in an Internet Explorer

427
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Speaker 1: eleven is the current most popular version of i E

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Speaker 1: on the market. I E eight is second, So that

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Speaker 1: means nine and ten didn't do quite so well. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And perhaps I'm not saying this is nest necesarily the case,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps one of the reasons that it has done

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Speaker 1: so well for so long is that is the last

433
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: version of Internet Explorer that's capable of running on a

434
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: Windows XP machine. So it maybe that we have still

435
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: a significant number of folks out there who are running

436
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: the Windows XP operating system. They never upgraded to Vista

437
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: or seven or eight or ten now, Uh, and they're

438
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: they're staying with Windows XP for one reason or another,

439
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: and they might be running Internet Explorer eight. That's a guess,

440
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: but I think it's a fair one. Yeah. I mean,

441
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: in the mobile world, it's I'm sure a lot of

442
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: people listening have had the experience of downloading an app

443
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: and then downloading an update a week later, right firing

444
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: up the app and being told that your OS is

445
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: out of date and you need to update, and that's

446
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: because Apple or or Android or something has been up

447
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: has A has released an update in the time between

448
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: you unloading the app and firing up the app, and

449
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: you've updated the app in that time without firing it

450
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: up or updating your OS, and it's already out of date.

451
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: Like it's crazy. Personally, I haven't had that issue, but

452
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: that's because I use the Next of six, so I

453
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: get those updates like immediately. But then although iPhone users

454
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: out there like, yeah, that's regular uperating procedure for me, Yeah,

455
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: I have an Next to six as well, to be fair,

456
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, that's so sort of my Android sort

457
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: of test phone thing, of course, because I I used

458
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: that for your main phone has to be an iPhone night,

459
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: I imagine. Yeah, alright, how do you like the Next

460
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: of six? I know this is a tangient, but I

461
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: have to ask. Um. I love it. I really like it. Um.

462
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: I use the iPhone six plus is my main phone.

463
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: To the next is six just feels like an evolution

464
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: of that. UM feel wise and the screens, the screens nice,

465
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: the battery life for me has been pretty good, and

466
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: the I don't know. I just like it, but I

467
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: don't use it that much, to be honest. It was

468
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: it's just like a like a uh, sort of a

469
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: dunny review unit type thing that's just been hanging around, right.

470
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: I just wish it were a little bit larger, so

471
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: that way, if I held it over my head on

472
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: a sunny day, I could shade my entire body. It

473
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: is a big phone. It isn't become but like I said,

474
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: I don't use it that much. It's it's mostly there

475
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: for me to test Android and if I need, if

476
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: I want to review right about new apps, it's just there. Um, yeah,

477
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: it's fine, Yeah, I understand. Well, getting back to Internet Explorer,

478
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: this is where we're starting to talk about some of

479
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: the boring ones for me. So I guess that's why

480
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm so eager to go off on tangents. But March

481
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: Internet Explore nine debuts, and I had the tagline the

482
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: Beauty of the Web, so finally we could experience that.

483
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: I was it was good that by two thousand eleven

484
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: we could finally see the beauty of the web after

485
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: all that text and the red x is for images

486
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: that wouldn't load. Um, this one wasn't tied to the

487
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: premiere of any new operating system, which might be one

488
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: of the reasons why it's not as popular as I

489
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: E eight or I E eleven because it was not

490
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't bundled with an operating system UM, so it

491
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: could run on Windows Vista Service Pack two or later

492
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: versions of the Windows operating system. There was no support

493
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: for Windows XP. Like we said, I E eight was

494
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: the last Internet Explorer to run on that platform. And

495
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: you could do things like you could pen websites to

496
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: the application bar, which would allow you to navigate straight

497
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: to those right away. So if there were sites that

498
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: you always go to, you know, you just you know there,

499
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: there's always there's three that I always opened up first

500
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: thing in the day, as soon as I load up

501
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: my browser, then it would make sense to pen those

502
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: first three just to be able to click on whichever

503
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: ones or even pin them together. You could do that

504
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: as well, where you could open up multiple tabs and

505
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: just associate the ones that you always go to first thing.

506
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: That way, you don't have to spend those precious that

507
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: calories typing in the first few letters of whatever you

508
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: are l you go to each time. UM but a

509
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: very innovative approach at the time. And UH. It also

510
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: had a download manager that would allow users to pause

511
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: downloads and alert users to potentially malicious files, very important

512
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: as far security is concerned. Something that is pretty much

513
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: standardized throughout all browsers now, but with brand new back

514
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: in at least for Internet Explorer anyway, and its includes

515
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: support for HTML five for audio and video tags. So

516
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: we started to see that that migration, which is still

517
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: happening from four to five UM, so you know, it

518
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: was important. It just didn't make a huge impact. In fact,

519
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: I can't even I don't think I've ever used I

520
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: E nine. I don't think I ever got to a

521
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: point where I used that. I yeah, I don't know.

522
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: I think I I think I will have done because

523
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: I was I was all Mac at that point. My

524
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: machine I was at Wired at the time. My all

525
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: my my machines at Wired were all Max as well.

526
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: But I did always have UM either a Parallels installation

527
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: of Windows so I could do my browser test because

528
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: I always did the browser reviews UM for seen it

529
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: in the UK, and then Wired as well after that,

530
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: so I always sort of kept I kept them installed,

531
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: so I must have used it at some point, but

532
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: certainly I seven was the last one that I could

533
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: honestly say I really remember using possibly I E eighty.

534
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: That so no, no, no lasting impression here. Um yeah,

535
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: I imagine that people with MAX would yeah, I run

536
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: boot camp, so I could run I E nine. That

537
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: would really shock me. I would not be I would

538
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: be a well why please tell me what? What's the

539
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: I can tell you why you might want to do that.

540
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: Max or some of the particularly quite a while was

541
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 1: some of the best Windows machines you could buy, Like

542
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: buy a MacBook Air and put Windows on. It is

543
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: a better experience for most Windows users who didn't want

544
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: to use a map, or rather who didn't want to

545
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: use O S. Turn right, Well did you uh? Do

546
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: you do? You find it amusing when PC users try

547
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: to go the other way and create hackintosh is It

548
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: seems like a bit of a waste of time. But

549
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: I suspect that there are people that are probably doing

550
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: it more for the joy of making it work than

551
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 1: the fact that it's productive for them to do so.

552
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: Once they've done it, you know what I mean. But

553
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: I also say I mean I am a Windows user.

554
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean my gaming machine is a Windows PC. It's

555
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: a big fat gaming rig with a twenty one nine

556
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: ultra y curved monitor that's all Windows but but it

557
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: literally loads Steam and most realistically, it really loads Elder

558
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: Scrolls Online as soon as I turn it on like

559
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: nothing else. I was gonna say, like, with that huge screen,

560
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: it's got to be papers. Please, you're just playing papers please? Yeah, No,

561
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: it's my immersive Elder Scrolls experience. Well that's that's good now.

562
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: I know. I know what MMO. I could run into

563
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: you if I ever, if I ever dive into that world.

564
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: Oh please, do you all welcome? You would make a

565
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: fantastic nod. I'm still playing. Actually, I'm still playing Skyrim again.

566
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I keep playing it through. I don't know

567
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: why I've played. I finally actually finished the game. For

568
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: the longest time, I was not finishing the game. I

569
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: was just doing all the side quests. So maybe I

570
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: need to Maybe I finally need to say goodbye to

571
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: Skyrim and jump on. We should take this conversation offline,

572
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: because I definitely want to persuade you to get into

573
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: Elder Scrolls Online. But we'll we'll save Elder Scrolls for

574
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: a future tech stuff, perhaps because that in itself has

575
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: a rich history as a franchise. We'll revisit. Yeah. I

576
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: actually I remember getting to play the early build of

577
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: that at a c E three several years ago. But okay,

578
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: we'll say that for the next one. Let's let's let's

579
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: power on through the end of Internet Explorer. April twelve, eleven,

580
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: that's when Microsoft announces Internet Explorer ten. It was less

581
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: than a month from releasing Internet Explorer nine, so they

582
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: released nine, and less than a month later they say, Hey,

583
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: Internet Explored ten is coming, which seems like a weird choice,

584
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: especially when Internet Explorer nine wasn't being bundled with an

585
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: operating system. So I don't know why they expected people

586
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: to migrate to nine if they announced, hey, something even

587
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: better is coming really soon. That that to me is

588
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: a very odd decision. Um. I honestly don't understand the

589
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: motivation behind that, unless they just probably for like accounting

590
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: purposes more than anything else to show in return on investment.

591
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: Maybe I mean that since Internet Explorer wasn't like a

592
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: product that you would go out and purchase, maybe they

593
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: just didn't care. It's kind of hard to say. Uh.

594
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: They showed a demo of an early build of I

595
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: E ten at the MIX eleven conference in Las Vegas,

596
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: d M i x UH conference in Vegas, I've never

597
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: been to that one. That's one of the few that

598
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: I have not attended. UH. It was September two thousand eleven.

599
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: They showed the developer preview of Windows eight UM that

600
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: ended up becoming available to the general public. So if

601
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 1: you wanted to get your hands on an early build

602
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: of Windows eight and then be one of the many

603
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,479
Speaker 1: people who complained about the metro uh layout, you could

604
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: have done that. Then I was one of those people. Yeah.

605
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: We we actually just had a machine here at how

606
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: Stuff Works that was the Windows eight machine, and it

607
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: was a Windows eight machine that did not have a

608
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: well no one, no one was using it. Well, first

609
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: of all, there wasn't a whole lot of software we

610
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: could use with it, and secondly, we didn't have a

611
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: touch sensitive screen. So you were using this interface that

612
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: was clearly designed after the UI you would see in

613
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: a tablet, but transmitted transferred rather to a desktop experience.

614
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: But if you didn't have a touch screen monitor and

615
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: you were navigating it through your basic keyboard and mouse,

616
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: it was not a very satisfied experience, at least not

617
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: for me. I could easily see why it would be

618
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: very attractive if you were using a touch screen device,

619
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: although I'm not big on touch screen monitors because I

620
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: don't like having big, old, greasy fingerprints all over my

621
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: monitor all the time. UM. I prefer my desktop to

622
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: be still keyboard and mouse until something better comes along.

623
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: What about you, do you use touch screen monitors? No point?

624
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah here, I don't see. I don't see. I don't

625
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: see a benefit to that, at least not in the

626
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: current hardware iterations that are out there. Yeah, I don't.

627
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of having to reach across

628
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: and touch the screen anyway. I'm also lazy, so anything

629
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 1: that smacks of effort I would like to edge away

630
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: from unless it was absolutely necessary. I e. Ten would

631
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: end up being bundled with Windows eight and Window Windows

632
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: Server in the fall, and it had two modes. I

633
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: had the Metro mode, so if you launched it in

634
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: the Metro they they no longer call it Metro, but

635
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: at the time that's what we all referred to it as.

636
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: If you launched it when it was in the Metro layout,

637
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: which was that tiled layout of Windows eight, it had

638
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: a limited limited features and it also ended up eliminating

639
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: uh pretty much the entire user interface was eliminated from

640
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: casual glance. You would have to swipe from the bottom

641
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: or the top in order to pull things up, But

642
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: otherwise it was meant to give the website the entirety

643
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: of your screens landscape. I can appreciate that on one level.

644
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: I like the idea of slimming down your your frames

645
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: so that you're giving the website as much attention and

646
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: as much of the focus of the user as possible.

647
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I want to be able

648
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: to easily navigate to other sites if I need to,

649
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: so I'm not crazy about completely hiding it away. Ah.

650
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: I think that might have been a bit much. If

651
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: you launched it in the desktop version of Internet Explorer,

652
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: it was a little more like the earlier versions, so

653
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: it had more of the capabilities built into it. Um

654
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: I think. I think Windows eight was really Microsoft's approach

655
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: to trying to make the operating system as accessible to

656
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: as broad range of people as possible, and I'm not

657
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: sure clearly they weren't entirely successful. They The rapid development

658
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: of Windows ten kind of points to that, and also

659
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: just the upgrade to Windows eight point one, which ended

660
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: up kind of reversing Microsoft decisions on a lot of

661
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: their original points. But Microsoft tends to do this. It

662
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: sort of take talks between between big success and at

663
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 1: least the perception of complete disaster, which is Windows uh,

664
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, Windows XP great success for our style, Windows

665
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: Vista disappointment, Windows seven great success, Windows eight bits of disappointment.

666
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: So I sort of feel that they are due a

667
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: great success on the next on the next one, I

668
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: think so, uh, And I guess they'll go out on

669
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: a high point because it's the last one. Uh. You know.

670
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: It's also interesting because this to me parallels a similar

671
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: thing that happened with with Microsoft with the the announcement

672
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: of Xbox one. I remember you and I had a

673
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: conversation about which console we thought one E three that

674
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: year when when the PlayStation four and the Xbox one

675
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: we're both announced. Yes, I remember actually eating a very

676
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: messy hot dog with you while we had the conversation,

677
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: and then we we talked about how Microsoft made all

678
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: these uh at the time, they sounded very bold and

679
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: sometimes slightly dangerous, you know, as far as they're there

680
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: the the way people would view the Xbox One. They

681
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: made these these announcements that ultimately I think would have

682
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: benefited them had they stuck with them. But they listened

683
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: to the initial reaction that gamers had and they reversed

684
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: some of their initial their initial pronouncements which ended up

685
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: negatively impacting certain features down the road. And I think

686
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: it's very similar to the way Windows eight and Internet

687
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: Explorer ten the same sort of situations, they went through

688
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: the same kind of cycles. They went through this like

689
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're really trying to push innovation. The problem

690
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: was they were pushing the innovation in a direction that

691
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: the the public just didn't get behind. And you know,

692
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: I think this is really it's it is a problem

693
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: born out of the business model. And it's not to

694
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: blame Microsoft at all. This is just the way business is.

695
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: But they needed to They need to give people a

696
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: reason to go through what is a particular in the

697
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: corporate world, a massive, dramatic and expensive and disruptive decision

698
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: to move operating systems through upgrade. So they have to

699
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: change something significantly, which is why it seems to go

700
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: from great too bad, too great, too bad to potentially

701
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: next great again, because basically what they then change is

702
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: they go back to what people wanted in the first place.

703
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's a it's the problem with if it

704
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it ain't broke,

705
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: but you need to make more money because that's what

706
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: your business relies on, then maybe you don't fix it,

707
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: just try and do something to it and then fix that, right, right, Yeah,

708
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's a that's a great point. And

709
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: I think it has to be endlessly frustrating to Microsoft

710
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: executives to really push for big, big changes, big risks

711
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: and innovation and seeing it fall flat. And then watch

712
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 1: Apple where it seems like Apple is able to make

713
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: that kind of declaration and uh and do really well

714
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: with it. Now that being said, there are clearly examples

715
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: in Apple's past where updates to certain operating systems or

716
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: software packages have been met with lots of criticism. Uh,

717
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: there're certain OS updates that people absolutely despised in the

718
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: in the process of the evolution of mac os. There's

719
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: also I mean, anyone here at how stuff works who

720
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: works in video could go on and on about changes

721
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: to certain video editing suites. I love that change is brilliant.

722
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: I ditched Premier to move to final cut when they

723
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: change that. Really, everyone here with the other way. That's

724
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 1: because they were probably doing it for for a living,

725
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: whereas I do it semi professionally, So for me it

726
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: actually sped up a lot of stuff, particularly things like multicam.

727
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing anything professionally professionally with it, like it

728
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: wasn't my sole job. But but but on the other hand,

729
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: the big differences that Microsoft now does these big, giant,

730
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: huge overhauls and pushes it as the next big thing

731
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: and like the latest innovation and leap in personal and

732
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: profess not computing. Apple makes a big deal about its

733
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: os is, but they're actually incremental them all like service

734
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: packs now and they are free and Apple will trump

735
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, this new innovative feature and that new innovative feature,

736
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: and yeah they are convenient, but you know, would you

737
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: pay for it? Really? I mean people did, but it

738
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: never really felt like a big deal to Apple. It

739
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: more felt like just because they were making boxes and

740
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: putting them on shells and shipping them around the world,

741
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: they should probably charge something for them. But once it's

742
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: all software and download based, it's just like it. So

743
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: they're like completely different. It's they're not chicken and eggs,

744
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: not chicken egg Sorry, they're not chalking cheese. Now, they're

745
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: just we're not comparing apples to apples. By comparing os

746
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,720
Speaker 1: tend to windows updates wise. Was that chalk and cheese

747
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: that I heard? Yeah, that's water past eleven at night.

748
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: I've been up there like eighteen hours at this point.

749
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm fried. I'm just curious if that's if that's a

750
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: common saying, or if that's just a yeah, okay, all right,

751
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah that's really common. Yeah, they're like chalking cheese, they

752
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: go together. I'll take your word for it. I I've

753
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: never heard that phrase, but I'm I'm a closet, you know.

754
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: I've been very you know, sheltered my entire life. So

755
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: it's quite possible. It just hasn't made its way to

756
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: the Deep South yet. All right, so we're in the

757
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: home stretch. October seventeen two, Microsoft releases the final version

758
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: of Internet Explorer Internet Explorer eleven, which had a lot

759
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: of performance improvements it actually went when it came out,

760
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: there were a lot of reviewers who put it through

761
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 1: various speed tests and said this was competitive against all

762
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: the other browsers that were current at that time, faster

763
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: than a lot of them. That it had made some

764
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: incredible improvements and was a true contender in the browsers

765
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: space that if. In fact, I remember reading so many

766
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: reviews that said, hey, if you switched the Chrome because

767
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: you wanted it to load web pages faster, you don't

768
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: have that reason anymore because Internet Explorer eleven was doing

769
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: it as fast or faster than Chrome could. So it

770
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: suddenly became clear that Microsoft had really pushed too to

771
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,959
Speaker 1: not just have new features, but to improve the performance

772
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: so that it wasn't going to be viewed as, oh, yeah,

773
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: it's this thing that everyone has because it's bundled with

774
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: your operating system. It was actually valuable browser that could

775
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: stand on its own against uh, all these other competitors.

776
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: So it was one of those things where you started

777
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: hearing some real positive thing, you know, reviews about Internet Explorer.

778
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: And yet it's also the last Internet Explorer. Uh. Microsoft

779
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: announced this year that it is no longer going to

780
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: be developing Internet Explorer. I sort of think that it's

781
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: a necessary it's a necessary change because I think that

782
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: the name I E. Is a lot worse than the

783
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: product itself. Internet Explorer is a perfect good, great, modern

784
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: fast browser now like it is, It's fine it's a

785
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: decent browser. And and if I feel that people said,

786
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: who you know, who say, oh, I use Internet Explorer,

787
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: most of us in the tech would kind of go

788
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: really really, But you know what if you if you're

789
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: using the latest I on Windows eight point one, it's

790
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: not a bad browser you might like. And I mean

791
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: there's objectively speaking, not subjectively like. Objectively it's not a

792
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: poor browser. Um. But the word I E. Just it

793
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: just brings with it this history that you know, people

794
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: just associate with either bad technology or horrible compatibility issues

795
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: like you had with I E eight where you had

796
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: to build basically a version of your website just for

797
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: one browser. Um, there was a lot of problems, and

798
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: obviously the security issues with I E six it's you know,

799
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: get rid of the name. It's it's a real problem.

800
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: It's why people don't really aimed that children after murderers

801
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of baggage there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

802
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: And and so the the next one, and who knows,

803
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: by the time this podcast goes live, maybe they'll have

804
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: officially announced the name. But it's code named Project Spartan,

805
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: which is built on different codes. It's code that if

806
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: you trace it back. You know, it has roots that

807
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: are common to Internet Explorer, but again it's a different

808
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: evolutionary path um and it's going to uh be the

809
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: new approach for browsers. There will be continued support for

810
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: Internet Explorer for a while, but we're going to see

811
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: that gradually taper off until we are left with whatever

812
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: project Spartan is named at the time. I am curious

813
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: where they came up with that name because they have

814
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: the personal assistant Cortana, and Cortana that's a character from

815
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: the Halo franchise, which Microsoft owns. Now it's good. Yeah,

816
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: so its Halo is cool. Xbox is the coolest thing

817
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: Microsoft's ever done, named after the most popular thing that

818
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 1: the most popular thing is named after. Yeah, I mean

819
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: they weren't going to call it master Chief, so master Chief.

820
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: The main character in Halo is a Spartan soldier. They

821
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 1: the type of armor he wears is designated as Spartan.

822
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: So it's possible that this is another Halo reference. It

823
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: could be that Spartan is totally is a Halo reference,

824
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: like it's Spartan either because it's a very bland, open

825
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: interface and then possibly but it's not, is it it's

826
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: it's it's halo. I still think they should call it

827
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: Windows Grunt. Well, I guess, I guess they could call

828
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: it elite. I mean that would be that would be

829
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: something I would have possibly a nicer connotation than grunt

830
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: would although honestly, depending upon what version of Windows you're running,

831
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: grunting might be your natural reaction to booting up your computer. Um,

832
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: because I remember running older visions of Windows on older

833
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: machines and thinking, all right, I've turned my computer on

834
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: in about half an hour, I'll be able to do something.

835
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: Ah at any rate. That's that's it. That is the

836
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: the full blown history of Internet Explorer, from the early

837
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 1: days before there were even web browsers to the current

838
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: situation where Internet Explorer is is surfing into the sunset.

839
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: I guess since we're talking about the web and we're

840
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: going to get this this new type of browser in

841
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: the future, Uh, it's an interesting story. I mean, you've

842
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: got so much drama there, from the the Anty trust lawsuits,

843
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: the whole dot com bubble, the intense focus on the web.

844
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: Microsoft getting a little maybe not lazy but complacent perhaps

845
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: with its place. I mean, it's it's a you can

846
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: also look at this and the development of the you know,

847
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: the company Microsoft as well, just what that company was

848
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: going through during that time. We could do a parallel

849
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: timeline and really see how there was a lot going on.

850
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: Oh there really was, and and and the popularity of

851
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: Windows of Internet Explorer six and by extension, Internet Explorer

852
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: six itself was both the best and the worst thing

853
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: that happened to i E. As a franchise of browsers.

854
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's popularity. It accounted for over nine of

855
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: all browser installations at one point around two thousand three,

856
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: I think. And yet that was the one that effectively

857
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: caused the downfall you know, in terms of actual security issues,

858
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: public perception, um, you know, the the the need for

859
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: something to challenge the dominant, monopolistic looking i E. You know,

860
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. It caused its own ultimate downfall,

861
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: and the complacency just made that worse. Yeah, without without

862
00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 1: i E. Six, you don't have necessarily the the incentive

863
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: for a group like the Mozilla Foundation to really push

864
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: for an alternative like Firefox. And then Firefox ends up

865
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: becoming not just like first when it debuts it's it's

866
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: definitely the underdog, but then very quickly in the grand

867
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: scheme of things, became a true contender. Uh. Yeah, I

868
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: mean without without the problems of I six, there wouldn't

869
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: have been I don't think there would have been a

870
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: drive for the alternatives. Uh. And ultimately, when you look

871
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: at the way things have shaken out now, again, like

872
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: we we barely touched the mobile world. But it's also

873
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: what helped drive the development of things like Chromium. Uh.

874
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 1: And then therefore you could also say it helped drive

875
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: things like Android as well as chromos. Uh. You know,

876
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: the world is definitely affected by Internet Explorer. Like we

877
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: we would not have the same experiences that we have

878
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: available to us now were it not for I e.

879
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: Whether it's whether it's from Microsoft or from someone else

880
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: that was trying to compete against them. So I agree.

881
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: I mean, broadly speaking, what a successful product, you know,

882
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: and what a great product for you know, for the

883
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: last two decades. I mean, you know, I say this

884
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: is a Mac user, but as someone has a deep

885
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: amount of respect for Microsoft and and what it does

886
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: and what it has done, and Internet Explorer has to

887
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: go down as one of the most popular, if not

888
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: the most commendable piece of software ever made. You know,

889
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: and I know that's a controversial statement, but but I

890
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: think even the you know what I'm getting at that

891
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: it's it has itself done so much for what the

892
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: modern web is, even if it was by being too

893
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: popular or too bad at one point, it has been

894
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: a driver of change for the modern Internet. Heck, I mean,

895
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: I think I feel pretty safe in saying that if

896
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: Internet Explorer had not been If it hadn't been for

897
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: Internet Explorer, for one thing, more people would never have

898
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: been introduced to the Worldwide Web because since it was

899
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 1: bundled with the operating system, it took that barrier to

900
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: entry and and throw it out the door right. It

901
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 1: made it. It became something that your computer could do

902
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: as soon as you got it plugged up and connected

903
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: to the Internet. There's still a bit of a barrier

904
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: because you still had to get connected, but once you

905
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 1: got past that, it was already ready to go. And

906
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 1: so there was that it helped remove that barrier to entry.

907
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: And because of that, because it had this uh enabling

908
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: factor that drove more people to the Web, it allowed

909
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: for the creation of things like websites like how Stuff

910
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: Works dot com, which means that I ultimately was able

911
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: to land my dream job. So like, I don't know

912
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: that things would have unfolded the same way had Microsoft

913
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: not gotten into this. I'm sure. I mean, it's undoubted,

914
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: there's it's impossible to say, but I mean, I'm pretty

915
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: sure that there's no way the World Wide Web wouldn't

916
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: still be an incredibly influential part of our lives. But

917
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: whether it would be to the same extent that it

918
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: is now without Internet Explorer, I don't know. Um. I mean,

919
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: something that powerful and useful and uh and and ultimately

920
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: profitable uh could not remain obscure forever, but it certainly

921
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: could have taken longer without Internet Explorer for it to

922
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: to get the traction that it got. So well, here's

923
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: to the next years. Yeah, who knows, who knows what

924
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: you know? Maybe maybe we'll both be using a Microsoft

925
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: machine and at that time and Mac will be a

926
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: distant memory, and my my Chrome U my Chrome browser

927
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: will be seen as as antiquated and cute. Yes, I

928
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: doubt it, but we'll see. I'll be just I'll be

929
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: passing through a midlife crisis and planning a sixtieth birthday. Yeah,

930
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: I'll be uh, I'll be through my midlife crisis and

931
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: well into my decline. All right, So, Nate Lanks, and

932
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me for these episodes.

933
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: It has been a pleasure having you on the show.

934
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: I greatly appreciate you taking the time and as as

935
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: people have heard and maybe you maybe you didn't notice,

936
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: but Nate has stayed up, passed his bedtime to be

937
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: on my show. So I appreciate that. Now it's much

938
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: if I if I can stay up for two podcast episodes,

939
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: time to talk about the history of a piece of software.

940
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 1: I mean, that is that is nerdtastic in my book,

941
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: and it's I'm just about to relaunch an entire publication

942
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: in Europe. And I am well past my bedtime definitely,

943
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,439
Speaker 1: and but but it's been a lot of fun and

944
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: kept me kept me awake despite what I probably should

945
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: have been doing. Well. Well, Nate, I'm going to take

946
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: that as a positive and uh, I hope I can

947
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: have you on the show again in the future. I

948
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: would love to have you back on and chatting about

949
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: well some some other great tech topics. Nate is incredibly

950
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 1: well versed in tons of technology. Uh. He very graciously

951
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: agreed to be on this episode next time. I promise

952
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: I will give him the full list of choices and

953
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: just open up the option so he can pick whatever

954
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: he wants to Uh, because it was I was playing

955
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: unfairly this time. But guys, if you have any suggestions

956
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: for future topics or potential future co hosts or interviews,

957
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: you want me to do anything along those lines, or

958
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: you just have some feedback that you want to send

959
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: to me, you can send it via my email address

960
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: that would be tech Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

961
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: You can drop me a line on Facebook or Twitter

962
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: or Tumbler. The handle it all three is tech Stuff

963
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: hs W Nate Where can they find your stuff? Well,

964
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,959
Speaker 1: the best thing I can say, apart from Twitter, which

965
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: is at Nate Lankson, is I do a weekly UK

966
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: focused technology podcast. We did a big feature on the

967
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,479
Speaker 1: most recent episode, episode thirteen, still quite a new show

968
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 1: where we put the world's electrical plug sockets against each other.

969
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: Plug versus plug, Which nation has the best plug? Um

970
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: the answers the English plug But there was a very

971
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: good reason as to why and we know no. We

972
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: spent fifteen minutes exploring exploring that. And I've also got

973
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: a review coming up of the new super thin MacBook

974
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: and a big piece about the new Google mobile algorithm change.

975
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: And the show is called Text Message. I should probably

976
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: say that um T E C H S message that is,

977
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: And you can find that at Nate lengths and dot

978
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: com slash podcast. Definitely go check that out, guys. And

979
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: I love it Nate that I asked you for a

980
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: plug and you plug a podcast about plugs. Oh yeah,

981
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: I didn't think that's awesome. Yeah, that's that's really well done.

982
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: All right, well, thank you guys. We will talk to

983
00:57:54,960 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: you again really soon. For more on this and thousands

984
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: of other topics, is a how stuff Works dot com